Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Sure. Commissioner Sotile. Present. Commissioner Edison.

Present.

Commissioner Serko.

Here.

Commissioner Pollack-Rood.

Present.

And let the record show that Commissioner Moroz is absent.

Welcome to the Al Cajon Planning Commission meeting. This meeting is being live streamed on the City of Al Cajon website. Appeals of final decisions of the Planning Commission made this evening must be filed in writing with the City Clerk before 5 p.m. Tuesday, September 2, 2025, and must include the payment of a filing fee. If you wish to speak on either a non-agenda or an agenda item tonight, please fill out a request to speak card located by the secretary and give it to the secretary who will call you up to speak when the agenda item comes up for public comment. We ask that you give us your name, spelling your last name. Speakers are limited to three minutes. The display on the podium as well as the other monitors in the chamber will show time counting down. At 30 seconds, the podium clock readout will turn red, signifying you have 30 seconds until the end of your time. Applicants and individuals representing groups of people may be allowed more time if applicable. All public hearing comments should be addressed to me as the chair of the commission and not to individual commissioners. Please turn off all electronic devices if you have not already done so. Pursuant to City Council Resolution Number 114-79, a commission who has received evidence related to a matter before the Planning Commission other than an unescorted view of the subject property is required to disclose such information at the hearing. At this time, we will take comments from any member of the public on any item of business within the jurisdiction of the Commission that is not in the agenda. Under state law, no action can be taken on items brought before under public comment except to refer it to staff for administration or place it on a future agenda. Is there anyone who wishes to address a commission under public comment? Please come forward. Go to the consent calendar. A single motion will cover all items on the consent calendar. Does the commission wish to pull a consent calendar item for discussion?

No, sir.

Does staff wish to pull a consent calendar item for discussion?

No changes from staff.

Okay.

I move to adopt the minutes as recorded.

I'll second.

Motion by Commissioner Serco, second by Commissioner Pollack-Rood. Please vote.

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Okay. The second item is the zoning reclassification for 628-630 and 702 Broadway. Request to rezone from RS6 and RM22 to OP, office professional. It's a CEQA exempt, and staff recommendation is to approve. Staff.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Noah Alvey, Deputy Director for the Community Development Department, presenting this item tonight. Again, this request is to rezone property addressed previously as 628, 630, and 702 Broadway. The subject properties are located on the north side of Broadway between Ballantine Street and North Mollison Avenue. The properties currently have residential zoning designations, but their general plan designations are office non-retail. So here's a street view of the existing conditions at the site. 616 Broadway on the very left-hand side is currently an animal hospital. 628 and 630 Broadway are located in the middle. Those were previously developed with residential uses and had that residential zoning designation, but the property back there is currently vacant. And then 702 Broadway is on the right side of the screen. That was originally approved as a racquetball club in a residential zone. And so the zoning code does allow recreational facilities in residential zones with a conditional use permit. So essentially it's just an artifact of the previous zoning. So going back in time, back in 1980, the city council went through an effort to rezone all properties for consistency with the general plan, but there were certain small properties that had been developed under previous zoning designations which they chose not to rezone at that time. So these two candidate parcels for rezoning now are a result of that rezoning exercise when council said, we don't want to rezone these, but we're finding them to be consistent with the general plan. so essentially what it did is it allowed the opportunity for those properties to continue to be utilized under the residential zoning but it also preserved that opportunity in the future that should a property owner come forward and wish to rezone those properties they would have the ability to rezone those to be consistent with the general plan So as I previously stated, the proposed zoning change would be consistent with the general plan, so changing the zoning from residential to office professional, and that would be consistent with the office non-retail general plan designation. Primarily, what this would allow would be the repurposing of the former racquetball club building into a new use that is allowed under the office professional zoning designation. So the required findings to approve the zoning change are shown here. Staff is recommending that the Planning Commission find that the project is exempt from California Environmental Quality Act guidelines under the common sense, common sense, exception just because no construction or no changes to the sites are proposed. And so we're recommending approval of the next resolution order and recommending that the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council approval of the zoning change. So that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions.

Any questions? I don't have any. Who's your circle?

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate time to mention this, but I did meet the applicant previously and we actually had a discussion about this a ways back. And I was like, that sounds like something that the planning commission would see. So I just want to put that on the record that probably six months ago we spoke. Uh, and, uh, I also always knew that building looked like a racquetball court. I love racquetball. All right. That's it.

Any other questions? I don't have any. Do we have any speaker cards, Laura?

Mr. Chairman, if we may open the public hearing.

Yes, I open public hearing. Yes, we have any speaker cards, Laura.

I do not have any for item number two.

Okay. Does the applicant wish to address the commission? If you do, please come forward.

First and foremost, I want to thank all the people involved in putting this whole thing together. And we basically are doing this so that we can give back to the community. We've been in the community for 42 years, and it's an opportunity for us to give back. and we're going to do some training for our veterinary nurses. Snap, who is present here tonight, is doing a lot of spay-neuters, and ultimately I think that we'll be able to do some training for some of the animals for service members and veterans. San Diego is the second largest population of retired and active duty veterans or military in the country. And so we want to help them and provide some care for them.

Thank you. Do you have any questions for the applicant? No? Yes. Commissioner Pollack-Rood.

So, since rezoning the site, are you going to build some more facilities there then on that site?

I'm sorry?

Is my microphone working? On that site, are you going to be building more facilities then in rezoning that property? Okay. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Dr. Johnson, could you speak to that? Me too.

And that was 17,000 square feet, and we're in 2,400 square feet now. Oh, wow. So we're looking forward to expanding on the back end of that empty property.

Oh, perfect. That's great. Thank you.

Anyone else? Thank you very much.

Appreciate your comments. Appreciate it.

I move to close public hearing. Motion made by Commissioner Sotile, second by Commissioner Pollack-Rood. Please vote.

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

What say you?

I'll make a motion.

Sounds good.

I move to adopt the next resolution in order recommending city council approval of zone reclassification number 2025-0002.

I'll second that.

Motion made by Commissioner Serco, seconded by Commissioner Pollack-Rood. Please vote.

I don't see Commissioner Serco's vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Thank you.

And Mr. Chairman, if I may, this item, again, this is a recommendation from the Planning Commission to the City Council. This item was joint notice for a City Council hearing at 3 p.m. on September 9th.

Okay, so there's another hearing with the City Council regarding this item, okay. The next item, item number three, is the Palms. The request is a restaurant with alcohol sales, live entertainment, and private events or banquets. Is CEQA exempt? The staff recommendation is approve with conditions or deny. So it could go either way. Staff.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So again, this is a request for a new conditional use permit or CEP for the Palms. So just as a reminder, the business is addressed as 143 East Main Street. It's shown here on the south side of East Main Street between Magnolia Avenue and Prescott Promenade. So over the last two years, the Planning Commission has discussed the operation of the Palms based on CEP number 2115. That was approved, as you may recall, back in 2010. And what it allowed was a restaurant with occasional banquet activities. So most recently, the Planning Commission held a hearing on the Conditional Use Permit 2115 in order to consider revocation of that permit because the business was not primarily operating as a restaurant and conducting private events on a more routine basis. The decision on the, so the Planning Commission voted to revoke the conditional use permit. It was on a split vote, a 3-2 vote. That decision by the Planning Commission was appealed to the City Council. The City Council hearing occurred on August 12th, so just last week, and the City Council upheld the Planning Commission's decision to revoke the permit. But as part of that decision, the City Council did delay enforcement of the revocation until October 1st of 2025. So the purpose of that was to allow the business to continue to conduct activities that were already scheduled and also to allow the applicant to pursue the new conditional use permit that is before you tonight. So the new conditional use permit project description is shown here. Again, it's for a restaurant with alcohol sales, live entertainment, and a private event center or banquet hall with a maximum of 10 events for each month. So this is essentially how the Palms has been operating over the last number of years. The project description does indicate that they do plan to invest in the property, but there were no plans or building elevations that were provided with the application. So, sorry, staff would note that if the proposed CUP is approved that there would be no requirement for the operator to upgrade the building. So the proposed use, if operated as described, would be consistent with both the general plan and zoning, which encourage restaurants with alcohol sales, live entertainment, as well as cultural activities in the downtown area. Additionally, the existing building is in compliance with specific Plan 182 design guidelines and the development standards for the downtown area. So in order to approve this request, the Planning Commission will need to make all the required findings, including the finding that the proposed use serves the public convenience and necessity. So this is really the operative finding that the Planning Commission will need to make. And that's where in the agenda report, as well as in each of the draft resolutions, there's two different findings that the Commission may wish to make. So currently within the downtown area, there are two private event facilities on North Magnolia Avenue. Those are the Crystal Ballroom and Babylon Palace. I reached out to each of those locations while preparing the agenda report for this evening just in order to determine whether or not they were busy, if they had capacity, and whether or not there was a demand for an additional facility for private events within the downtown area. So both Crystal Ballroom and Babylon Palace said that they had openings and were not that busy now that kind of summer is coming to a close. I'd also note that there are two additional facilities within the downtown area, the Ronald Reagan Community Center, which is available for private events, as well as the Magnolia, which obviously hosts live entertainment events. So when looking at the finding of whether or not the proposed use serves the public convenience and necessity, the Planning Commission may determine that an additional facility will serve the public convenience and necessity by providing one additional private event center or banquet hall in a high demand area on East Main Street where cultural activities are encouraged. The alternative finding to deny the proposed conditional use permit would be that the Planning Commission would see that the four existing private event centers in the downtown area satisfies the public's demand for these types of facilities and that an additional facility would be detrimental to the downtown area. The only public comments that were received for this request were from the downtown business partners and those came in after the agenda was published. I subsequently sent the copy of their comments to the planning commission. We also printed copies and left them at the dais and made them available for anyone in the audience. The proposed project is exempt from CEQA under a class three exemption for repurposing the existing building. There's also an exemption that applies to the denial of a project. So if the Planning Commission decides to make all the required findings, staff would recommend that the Planning Commission consider any comments or testimony from the downtown El Cajon business partners and determine if any of their recommendations should be included as conditions of approval as part of the CUP. So that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions.

Yes, Commissioner Edison.

Okay. Okay. And I'm going to try to refer to the new CUP as much as possible, because the old one's revoked. There's no need to go back. Was the new CUP developed with input from the new applicant? Was there communication? Was there talk in building it?

The applicant submitted the project description. They were in communication with staff, but I would say the project description reflects what they are requesting without modification from staff.

Got it. So in looking at the conditions of approval, I drive past the Palms all the time. I go to the market. Kaylin's is right down the road and come over here. In looking at the approval, All activities shall be conducted within the enclosed building in fairness to the applicant. They have that outside patio that's outside the building. So how is that going to work for them? Because I know where I'm leaning with this, but I think all these conversations should be had before the vote. So that way they don't have to be back here.

think well the applicant is present this evening the way that i attempted to structure the agenda report and resolution was to reference the previous conditions of approval for cup2115 and then show those in strike through changes just for purposes of consistency i thought it would lead to a better understanding for all parties that were involved The conduct of use within the enclosed building would just be with regards to the live events. The outdoor dining area is still able to be used for outdoor dining. So that's to somewhat is a remnant. I would say it's the distinction between things that are occurring within the public right-of-way as opposed to events occurring on private property within the enclosed building. So I wouldn't have any concerns with them using the outdoor dining area in the public right-of-way as approved by the city.

Well, I would push back on that a little bit because if the applicant does get the approval and somebody does complain about that patio in writing, it's saying that there's nothing supposed to be in fairness. We're going by what's in writing. Can we strike that? Would it be possible?

Absolutely. We can modify that condition in order to better address the existing conditions.

Okay. I think that would be fair.

I would say that instead of saying all activities, all events shall be conducted inside. Because the events are the things that, the private events, that's out of public right away. And that doesn't make it sound like if you're having dinner out on the patio, you're outside the boundaries.

Yeah, that would be a little bit, without using the word common sense, and I think that that would be a good way to put it. JUST IN FAIRNESS TO THEM. THE SECOND THING, I LIKE THAT THERE'S A METRIC. NOW, I THINK THAT THE OLD CPU WAS VERY AMBIGUOUS IN ITS WRITING. THIS ONE SAYS IT'S GOING TO BE 10. THAT'S DOING MATH IN MY HEAD. THAT'S OVER A THIRD. THAT'S NOT A THIRD. IT'S OVER A THIRD. BUT IT'S A RESTAURANT FIRST. SO IF IT'S A RESTAURANT FIRST, THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GOING TO BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS. When the private events are going on, one of the complaints was that the windows were shielded, which, I mean, you could say it's open to everybody, but when you shield it, sometimes the shielding doesn't come off on the day of the live event. Maybe the next day they forget about it. Was there any discussion on what the window, the interior is going to look like when the private events are going on?

We did not discuss that with the applicant, but I'm sure that the applicant can address that. And if there's recommendations that the planning commission have or the downtown partners about the appearance of the facility during private events, those could also be incorporated as part of the CEP.

Well, my first suggestion would be cost low or cost zero would be to at least have like a sign that says closed for private event. That way we're open, but not tonight. A matter of fact, I would be tending to want to go there more. if I saw something like that, but that's just me. I don't wanna monopolize the time so other people have questions, but I have one more, but go ahead. Okay, we have the metric, that's fair. How are you gonna track it? I mean, I don't wanna task the staff to be playing catch as catch can, and then how is this gonna work?

There's a number of ways that we could track that. You know, the applicant, after a month's conclusion, could provide staff with a list of private events from the previous month. You know, in reality, based on staff's ability to track these things, typically what happens is it wouldn't be tracked until we received a complaint. And so if there were more private events going on or someone thought there were too many private events, we would reach out, ask for documentation from the operator, and then begin tracking on our own.

And because it's a restaurant first, I'm assuming that the health code, you know, little A that goes up there, that's going to be up there. I don't know that it's there now, so I'm not saying it's not. I'm assuming it's going to be on the front where Main Street is because that's where the city seems to want the foot traffic. It'd be on the front.

right is that am i wrong or well the rating for a restaurant comes from the county department of environmental health and quality and so they issue those and they would um and they would provide the regulations about the placement of that signage so i'm not familiar with requirements of where that would be placed but the county would be the the enforcer of those regulations fair enough that wasn't my question thank you commissioner circle

You had a question?

I was looking to see, I saw the map that showed a dance area and I was trying to find where it said something I thought I saw something that said it wouldn't be a dance club, but in the conditions of approval, H says it shall not be operated exclusively as. And so dance is an important cultural event for most people. And just wanted to make sure that that was fully allowed

Yes, it definitely would be allowed as part of the live entertainment function of the business. I think the floor plan reflects what had been previously approved out there. The conduct of dancing and live entertainment also requires the special operation license, which gets approved by the city manager now, but it comes with input from the police department with regards to that. But yes, dancing definitely would be authorized under the live entertainment function of the CEP. Thank you.

Any other questions? No? Okay. Let's open up to public comments. Any speaker cards, Laura?

Yes, we do. We have three. The first one is Vince Catula.

Hello, Vince. Please spell your last name.

K-A-T-T-O-U-L-A. Chairman Sotile, may I have five and a half to six minutes?

Sure.

Thank you. I won't bore you, I promise. Good evening, Chairman Sotile and members of the Alcohol and Planning Commission. My name is Vince Cattula and I represent the soon to be new owners of Palms Restaurant and Banquet Hall. With me today are two of the family members of the new ownership group, Jeff and Ramon Mansour. Tonight we are here before you to share our vision of the future of the Palms, which we think could be a fit for all stakeholders involved. As stated in the staff report, the general plan designation for this site includes a mixture of retail, office, residential, governmental, and cultural uses and activities. The proposed conditional use permit is very similar to what CUP 2115 permitted, a Middle Eastern restaurant with live entertainment and alcohol. The difference being is that now we can host up to 10 individual private events per month. events that several different unique cultural communities in El Cajon rely on. I want to touch on the base regarding the question of monitoring the 10 events per month. We would likely be posting a calendar online that says closed for private event. They all reserve months in advance, so we know when we're going to be closed and when we're not going to be closed. Regarding the 10 events themselves, it is very difficult to have more than four or five monthly private events. So if you do a Friday, you can't do a Saturday because you've got to set up and get material and whatnot. um we would likely be having four or five events and then probably four or five funerals during the afternoon when we'd likely be closed so i'll touch on that in a little bit um as a refresher since we were last here i would like to remind you guys that the primary business here is referred to as a nadi where you go after work, you order food, play a board game, or cards with your friends. Here you see a Conde Nasté article that I brought up last time highlighting the various nadis in the Middle East and specifically in Baghdad. In the Western culture, we also have nadis, but we refer to them as happy hours. Sometimes you might hear a coworker say, let's go get a happy hour after work. In Chaldean, we say . It's a very, very similar saying that kind of transpires culturally. I'm going to show you an example here at the Palms that provides a visual of what happens every single night except the ones that when we're closed for a private event. So what you see is a bunch of guys hanging out after work, sharing skewers of kebabs. Right over there, you see guys playing dominoes. Sorry, I couldn't pause that for a second. See guys playing dominoes, ordering food, watching a football game up on top. I think that was a Monday night football game for preseason. OK, as mentioned earlier, there are many different communities that rely on the palms in El Cajon to host their special lifetime events. Here you see a quinceanera. And I want to say a fun fact. The palms does more quinceaneras than it does Chaldean engagements.

That's a robot dancing the banda.

I don't think this ever happened in El Cajon before. It's not just the Latin communities that rely on the palms. Here is a video of a recent African bridal shower. These types of events may not be happening at the other banquet halls in alcohol, but at the palms, we have a long line of customers that want to reserve for the next several months and into the next year. So I don't know what's happening at the other ones that were referenced, but we have the market and the demand from different cultures at the palms. I think this was like a week and a half ago. And then finally, this was a Ramadan lighting from earlier this year. My point in showing you all of these images is to reinforce the fact that this project, the specific site is doing exactly what the general plan is calling for cultural uses and activities you've all seen this but as a refresher we plan on investing over eight hundred thousand dollars in this venture uh... i've been in very close communication with marco lamandri of new city america and the downtown business partners uh... minute touch on that in a few slides we're gonna be working very closely with him and his team on what they want the site to look like uh... on exterior and interior which is why you don't have a site plan for the proposed plans in front of you uh... here's the patio along main streets one of a revision that we have the interior and here's a couple quotes from marco While we wholeheartedly endorse a new high-quality restaurant in Natty Center, we believe it will complement our goals in the core of downtown El Cajon and will rebuild the brand for this important spot. If it's capped at 10 private events per month, as an appear as a restaurant to passerbyers, then this place can be considered an asset to downtown. again and finally i know that you were all very patient uh... between staff uh... city manager's office city attorney's office you all the previous ownership uh... previous business operator and how do we know in about all the back and forth we probably would have passed on this opportunity promise you we would have uh... i was born and raised in alcohol These guys have spent the last 35 years owning businesses and living in El Cajon. You've all seen me on a few different projects. I talk to Noah probably twice a week. it emphasizes our commitment to invest in alcohol and it tells you guys that we want to invest in our community and it assures you that when we say something we come through every single time when we say we're going to do it we're not the previous owners and we hope that tonight we can close that chapter with the understanding that we want to be the team that turned the old downtown alcohol into the next little italy Let's start with approving the pumps. Please help us achieve that goal by approving this project. Thank you, and we're available to answer any questions.

Yes, Mr. Katula, question for you. Sure. Why open the restaurant from 6 to 1 o'clock instead of opening at the 4 o'clock or 5 o'clock?

4 o'clock is difficult, and the reason it's difficult is because it's a dead hour. 5 o'clock, I did tell Marco that I would give him the 5 o'clock hour.

Yeah, because it seems to be more like a 50-50 than a primary restaurant. Primarily looks like maybe a banquet hall, and secondarily is a restaurant. Well, if you break down- Is my impression wrong?

well if you break down the hours of operation when it comes down to five to one you know that's eight hours times thirty two hundred and forty hours if you're limited at ten percent of the sorry ten private events of that so that's what eighty hours which is eighty times yet about thirty percent

And why 1 o'clock? Do people still eat dinner at 1 o'clock?

I'll give you a great example. You leave a concert at the Magnolia and you want to go get a bite to eat, this is the only place you can go get a bite to eat. That's why 1 o'clock.

Okay. All right. Fellow Commissioners, do you have any questions for Mr. Cotulla?

I do. One, I want to say this because it has been an event, this place. I appreciate that you guys have been here coming each time. Presence is everything. It does show. To me, and I think I could speak for the other commissioners, it was never about culture or anything. The old CEP just did not fit. It did not fit. That's why it was revoked. Now we have a new one, but my question is the only thing that came out of concern was during off hours. So I guess it goes for staff too. I want to have these conversations now so we don't have to have them.

Absolutely.

So when it's off hours, so let's say it's a Monday and they're not open at, they open at six o'clock, let's just say five o'clock. Let's say they opened at five o'clock PM. Does it count toward their private events if they do something when they're closed? I guess it's a question for staff.

Sure, I would say no, that that would not count towards their private events. I think one of the things the commission talked about at the previous hearings was the fact that maybe Porfavor or Downtown Cafe being closed on Mondays, it's not fair that we're holding the palms to a different standard. So the way the conditions of approval are structured, there's no requirement for them to open at 6 p.m. It's just the limitation on the 10 events.

But I guess my main question was, before 6, they do a quince. Does that count toward their 10? It's an important question to ask.

The intent is for only evening events, so when the restaurant will be closed. So when they state that their typical operating hours are 5 or 6 p.m. until 1 a.m., it would only be private events during that typical operating time frames.

So... I think it would be a good idea that that was spelled out maybe into the CUP so that way it's there. So that way they know when it's during off-peak hours, It counts. When it's on peak hours, it counts. When it's off peak hours, it doesn't. Am I saying that right?

Right. So if they have a funeral on a Tuesday morning or Tuesday afternoon, that's not interfering with the restaurant business. And so it doesn't count against the 10 events. I think that's what you're trying to say. Yeah.

Since we're having this open dialogue, funerals culturally end at 6. So if we did have a funeral during the week, funerals are never Fridays or Saturdays or Sundays, right? Ever. They can't be on Sundays because we don't have them during. Anyway, if we did have a funeral, could we open at six?

So there is where I've got to. tell you, like you said in the last meeting, the narrative, some of the narrative that's coming out, I don't like because when you say culturally they end at six, that means you're saying it's exclusively, you're implying, I don't think intentionally, I really don't think it's intentional, but you are implying that it's just one culture, whereas in the slide you're saying we want to be diverse. So when we have a repass for blacks, they have it during a different time. For the Egyptian side of me, they have it at a different time. So I would caution you in that your narrative,

Yeah, so the reason I say cultural, so yes, those events that we have, those private banquet hall events and whatnot, yeah, those are for a variety of different cultures. When I'm speaking to the funerals, yes, we have different funerals. And the reason that I'm just going to say a Chaldean funeral ends at 6 is because the guys that leave work want to go pay their respects right before 6 o'clock. So that's why. And then typically that switches to evening. So it's a new day in the Chaldean community as we see it to where grieving has now passed.

When you say funeral, You mean it's a celebration and the body's not there?

The body's not there, no. They've already been buried. So what happens is they usually start at the church around 11 o'clock. They do their religious prayers and whatnot. Then after that, they go to the cemetery, they bury them. And then after that, the family, in honor of their deceased loved one, buys lunch for everybody that's available.

What makes you unique? Why would somebody for an event come to La Palms instead of going to Crystal or Babylon or any other place? What makes your place unique or special that people would rather go to La Palms?

For funerals or for private events?

For all events.

Okay, for funerals, they are, as some of you guys may know, there are many different, I'm just gonna say Chaldeans, for example, because I don't want to walk that fine line. There are many different villages. There's eight primary villages in the Chaldean culture. and every two or three pick the one that they want to go to. So the two or three that go to the Palms may not have a funeral at one of the other banquet halls. That's for that. Regarding the private events in the evening, we actually, and I confirmed this earlier today, we do more non-Chaldean total events. I said quinceaneras earlier, but non-Chaldean private events than we do... Sorry, I said that backwards. More other culture private events than we do Chaldean private events. And the reason is because Babylon Palace, well, Babylon sounds like it's a Chaldean event.

And Crystal Ballroom?

Crystal Ballroom is also a private Chaldean event. Over here, we have the Palms. The Palms has different types of food. Our kitchens can make different types of food based on the catering menu that the folks that are having the event want to host. Sometimes they might say, we don't want alcohol on the premise. It's against our religion. We remove all the alcohol from the premises out of respect for that. I don't know of other banquet halls that do that type of customer service.

Any other questions?

Well, I don't want to lose the question. I don't remember which way the question went, but for the funerals that end at 6, not opening until 6, I think that's just part of business. I don't think that's a – I don't know. I'm just saying from my point of view as someone who works at a church that has memorials with receptions that last way longer than they ever should – I sometimes am waiting at 4 p.m. when we have church at five for the family to go away so I can get the room ready for church. So I don't see any issue personally with them staying closed till six on a funeral day. And then I did have a question and I think I've lost it. So I will try and remember that if you have any questions.

I know that you're having these private events and it's also a restaurant so basically when you have these private events it'll be closed to the public it won't be or what do you have some events that are open to the public

there are many different types of events so we had the main street on america i believe i can't remember the exact title but there was a bazaar that was taking place inside of the palms that was closed technically as a restaurant but it was open to the public for people to go in and shop at the different individual booths and order food and whatnot and i think in my slide for the ramadan bazaar um let me just grab that picture real quick This was open to the public, but the organization rented out the entire facility. Open to the public, but not a restaurant at that time.

And then you also mentioned that to kind of monitor the events, you have a website and you post the events on the website. Is that something that's up and running currently or?

Not yet. We do have the DoorDash that's open, the Uber Eats that we've initiated and all that. And it's every little step, takes a little bit of time. But the website is next, the new revision, the logo, the site plan, the floor plans, all of that stuff. Like I said, we're working closely with Marco Lamandri. and his team on what exactly they want. Marco and our team agrees. This could be the anchor of the new downtown El Cajon.

And then regarding, because I know you're technically escrow.

Yeah.

And that's all... I mean, commercial takes a little longer because of this. I understand it takes a little longer because if this doesn't go through, it doesn't make sense for the vision. But how is that going with the escrow process? Are they being flexible?

Yeah, we had to not release hard money, but deposit additional money into escrow towards the purchase price applicable to get the extension to get all the way up to here because we were supposed to close a couple months ago. Gotcha. Yeah.

And what's the timeline now then for...

Once this thing gets approved and the appeal period closes, I think we would move to close.

And then regarding, I know that you didn't have any rendition plans because it's kind of putting the cart before the horse, but how is that process going and how long do you think you could have something submitted if something does go through?

We could have stuff submitted pretty quickly. I don't think, though, based on what Marco, myself, some discussions with Noah as well, I don't think they would require building permits. There are most likely going to be facade improvements that don't have any structural, no electrical, anything like that. So we would be working with Marco. What they want to see the outside look like, what they want to see the inside, the color palettes, the schemes. And yeah, go off of that. So all that stuff is pretty quick. But I don't think, unless there's something crazy that comes up that requires mechanical plumbing, electrical engineering, that would trigger the building permits, I don't think we would be coming in for building permits.

Because you're basically sticking with the floor plan that's here.

We're basically sticking with the floor plan, all the same structural, it's a wide open concept, the kitchen's not changing.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, just to clarify. Yes. So within the downtown area, exterior modifications to buildings do require an administrative zoning permit. And so that's a permit that's approved administratively by the community development department director. So even if you were, you know, just putting on new rock facade or something that doesn't require a permit, it would still get reviewed by staff for compliance with the design guidelines that are in place. Does that include the sign? Because the sign is kind of weird. I think it's like. It's changing.

Yeah. It's a little tired. Yeah. But, um, does that include that sign? It's just, just so we have the whole conversation in the open. Does that require another hearing?

The sign would not require another hearing. It would also be subject to those same design guidelines. So within the downtown area, there's a prohibition on can signs, interior illuminated can signs, so they have to have channel letter signs at a minimum, or they could have a painted sign. But it would just be approved by administrative, by staff, any decision. If the applicant disagreed with the decision, they could appeal that to the Planning Commission.

Thank you.

Okay, I noticed on your naughty events, you showed the picture, mostly men. Do women not attend those events?

Women are absolutely more than welcome to attend, and it's actually something that we're going to be catering to. We might be doing ladies' nights to where women come in and play their card games and have their fun and have their Bellini cocktails and whatnot.

Okay, all right. Well, we'll have the next speaker. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Next speaker card.

Yes, Ramon Mansour.

Okay.

No, I think we're... And this is, I believe, Jeff Mansour?

Jeff Mansour, yeah, thank you. So I appreciate everybody's time, guys. As you know... We're consistent. We keep coming over here to try to show you that we are serious, okay? We're serious. We want to buy this place, and we want to change it, and that's what we're here to do. And we acquired this business because we see a vision. Nobody's going to spend money unless they believe in it, right? And we believe in it, and we're going to do what we say we're going to do, and we put our money in it. in it, you know, to show that our seriousness is. But, you know, this is taking a long time, right? You know, the process keeps going and going, and the sellers, you know, what you said earlier, where's the sellers with this? They're just waiting for us. They're like, finish this, because they feel like their hands are tied too, right? I mean, and I'm sure they understand. Like, I'm not going to buy this place unless the city says okay, you know, unless they approve the CUP. So please, that's the whole idea. We want to move forward. Everybody does what they're supposed to be doing, and we want to just move forward, and you guys will see what will happen. That's all I want to say.

Mr. Mansour, this has been going on for almost two years now. Actually, more than two years, but not with you, though, with the previous operators. So all of us have been somewhat patient.

Yes, and I appreciate that.

Any questions for Mr. Mansour?

I just want to say I appreciate your consistency in coming to us because you guys are the first group that's here every time. So thank you for that.

Okay. Any other speaker cards?

No, those are the only speaker cards.

Okay. I move to close public hearing. Second. Motion made by Commissioner Sotile, second by Commissioner Edison. Please vote.

I'm missing two votes. Mr. Edison and Ms. Pollack-Root.

Is it showing now?

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

All right. Let's have our deliberations here.

Well, I'll crack it off. I will speak to how long this process has been going on. I think that you guys coming in, you didn't come with a lot of baggage. You took up a lot of baggage, and that's unfortunate. Now that the old CEP is revoked, you guys don't have that. I mean, now it will be completely on you. You have the metric if it's approved. You have the conditions if they're approved in the amendments. It would be your ball to lose. I would just like to say for the record, I do, whether or not, however the vote goes, I do appreciate you guys have come to each meeting, you've been respectful, your energy's there. So we'll see how it goes.

Well, I will speak to the CUP. Getting new CUP is the best thing that's happened in two years. uh... the cpu matches the business plan matches what the business is doing what their future looks like i would like to think that by approving the cv we open up a little more understanding for new business models as far as cultural events and the naughty idea It's something that has some Western equivalents, but not entirely the same way. But I like the, I like the business plan. I like how the CUP is worded. We did mention an exchange of words for all activities, change it to all events so that it's clear that the restaurant can be outside. That seating area will be important in bringing people in and seeing it's a restaurant. Hey, look, there's food over there. Hey, I smell that. Let's go check that out. And while the facade improvements, I trust the city public community development department will be able to handle all that stuff. The vision that we saw briefly looked great. The glass doors that open all the way up would be a huge improvement over what they currently have with just single doors on the front end. I believe in this vision. And I think the CEP is the way to go.

I know City Hall, the City Council was big on having new nightlife, new events here in El Cajon. And this is a big event space that could be utilized. And if it does go this way, I think it would be a good... Improvement of the city the downtown city the palms is old and tired and it's not really changing what it is though And I mean I use social tap downtown and they have all bowling all kinds of games You can get games rent games and play them at your table. So this isn't a new idea It's just you know a new idea downtown and it's how it's been working a long time and to enhance the building and enhance downtown. And we have a lot of events downtown and to have another place for someone to come enjoy food, that's what it's all about. So I think with the vision that you guys have, i just hope and because you guys have been consistent we've had a lot of people come through here but sometimes they just wouldn't show up or we wouldn't know what was going on or they would say one thing and do another so i really hope that if this does go through that the vision that comes to fruition because i think would be a huge improvement um

I like what I see. However, I also see that we're pushing the envelope insofar as the SP-182 is concerned. Primarily, that location was to be zoned for restaurants, primarily. But then with the banquet and so forth, they added a few other items to that area. I don't want to see an empty building. I want to see a flourishing downtown El Cajon. Most restaurants in Little Italy are open for lunch, dinner, and sometimes some are open for breakfast as well. So my concern is the hours which the restaurant will be open. You gave good reason. I would prefer 4 o'clock, but if 5 o'clock is more reasonable, then I would go for that, but 4 or 5 o'clock. Like Mr. LaMondry recommended and has noticed that that he recommended to be open from 5 until closing. And then adding the language that Commissioner Circle stated, all events, did you say all events? Yeah. All events, yeah. That would be a good thing. So I don't know, how do you feel about having open at least either 4 or 5 o'clock?

Well, I would point out that the conditions of approval do not state when the business must be open. And that is something that they have proposed. And I believe that any business that sees opportunity for more business will open when there's business to be had.

So you would prefer to leave it open?

I would prefer to leave it where they put it. If they have a funeral, they open at 6, because they've got something going on until 6. If they don't have a funeral and there's an opportunity to open earlier, they'll open earlier. But currently, it sounds like they're looking for 5 to, or I forget, 5 or 6, but that's up to them. It's not in the conditions of approval.

I'll open public hearing. You come up, Mr. Cattula.

the way that we have proposed hours of operation great point what we would love to be open twenty four hours and generate as much business as we possibly could however the fact of the matter is that there is no business the afternoon hours all the way up to about six o'clock we tested it We stayed open for about three months, starting open at 11.30. And there was probably maybe we did 20 orders in 90 days, 20 entire orders. The business didn't start till six. So what we did was we said, we'd like the hours of operation to be from 11 a.m. to 1 a.m. with no requirement to open at 11.00. until the business starts picking up in downtown. We're gonna be bleeding cash if we're open for lunch and not generating business. Same reason why we can't open at four. That four o'clock hour is dead, we saw it. The only reason I said okay to five, there's still not that much business at five o'clock but folks will start trickling in and it was my way of meeting Marco halfway and trying to help contribute to attracting folks to downtown at five o'clock.

Okay, so you'll be okay with 5 o'clock?

5 o'clock we can take.

I just don't know if that's the hill I want to die on of business hours. Is this something that we do with other businesses where it's in their CUPs?

Not typically for restaurants. So like I stated earlier, there's no requirement on operational hours for downtown cafe or por favor as an example.

Then I don't understand why we would do that.

Yeah, I don't think we're adding any operational hours to the CUP. That was just a question on top of the operational hours between 11 a.m. and 1 a.m., and then they choose when they're open.

Okay, thank you very much. Should I close public hearing again? We have one more question. Oh, one more question? I'm sorry.

they did say in their summary that if lunchtime business in downtown alcohol becomes steady the business will shift away from funerals and become opening full for lunchtime so any business would like to work we don't make that much money on funerals yeah at all i'm sure they would like to have a big full crowd of people eating food so i think i worked in restaurants and bars majority of my college career and a lot of the bars i worked at didn't open till late because no one came during the day But the restaurants that I were at, depending on where they were, some were open, some were not. It all depends on the environment around it. So I know Little Italy is busy, but Little Italy is kind of always busy because it's just you're in downtown. There's a lot of foot traffic. There's a lot of people working where downtown is a little bit different of dynamic. So I think if they had the opportunity to be open for lunch, I think. You would do that.

We would love to open for lunch.

And the business looks inviting. One of the complaints was, and I saw the pictures, I was like, I wouldn't want to go there. So, I mean, that was one of the things that we, the old business skirted around to see, but that's why we're here. That's really why we're here. It needs to be primarily a restaurant, and we're saying that on the record. Ultimately, we're talking about the banquet hall, and I know that it was mentioned, there's three other banquet halls, well, primarily it's a restaurant. So I would just caution, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about the banquet hall, but it is restaurant first. But I don't, I think I said my piece.

Yeah, okay, well, thank you very much. We'll close the public hearing.

I move to close the public hearing.

Second. Motion made by Commissioner Sotile, second by Commissioner Serco. Please vote. Right.

Motion carries by unanimous vote.

Yeah, that is my primary concern is that it'll be less of a restaurant and more of a banquet hall. I just want to maintain primarily that it is a restaurant and not a banquet hall or special facility. That's my primary concern, but I understand your point of view as well. If the business is not there, it's not there, yeah.

Mr. Chairman, if I may interject, I did take some notes based on the deliberations. And so I thought I may read into the record some additional language for consideration by the commission.

So I heard a desire to modify condition 2C.

Condition 2C currently says all activities shall be conducted within the enclosed building. So I heard the commission say that they would like to modify that condition to say all events shall occur within the existing building or outdoor dining area.

Can it be private events?

I think the intent was to not limit the restaurant business to just inside, but to keep private events inside and have the outside public.

Maybe we don't need that condition of approval. Maybe we could say all activities shall be conducted within authorized areas. That would work.

I mean, I wouldn't have an objection if somebody's in a private event and went out and got a breather. You're dancing, you need some fresh air. Not that I dance. Yeah.

And probably the entrance for the public event would be in the back of the building where the parking lot is.

Well, in any event, going inside, I would prefer. They're going to go outside. How are you going to go outside? But if they go outside, I don't want to pigeonhole it where they're in violation because somebody was dancing and they went out to get some air. I don't think that would be fair.

I don't think...

Yeah, I would have no objections to striking condition to see. I mean, it's really kind of a remnant of commercial zoning regulations, which just say that everything has to be within an existing building. If you strike it or you could say all activities shall be conducted within authorized areas. Either way, I think would be fine.

I think we can strike it completely because it a business is going to operate where it can operate.

The second condition that I heard under deliberation was condition 2G. That condition 2G currently reads the use of the business as a private event or banquet facility shall occur a maximum of 10 events per month. Staff would suggest that the condition be restated to say the use of the business as a private event or banquet facility shall occur a maximum of 10 events per month between 6 p.m. and 1 a.m. Yeah.

So you're saying that that would anything where the restaurant would be closed?

Correct. Did you say 6 a.m.? 6 p.m. 6 p.m. and 1 a.m., that was their stated hours.

For the restaurant.

And that was, Commissioner Edison wanted that clarification so that there wasn't a misunderstanding about which events are, so if a funeral was counted as a private event or not. So by stating that in the conditions, it would be clear that it's only during those restaurant hours when those private events would count towards the maximum of 10.

Okay. Okay. Very good. Okay. Was that it? I think that's it. Anything else? All right. So when a motion is made, can the motion maker say as discussed or as ditto as we discussed the motion?

So based on the discussion, what I'm hearing is that the commission would like to strike condition 2C and then to modify condition 2G to reflect 10 events per month between 6 p.m. and 1 a.m.

Okay. Go for that? All right.

I'll make a motion. Go ahead. I move to adopt the next resolution in order, approving... conditional permit number two zero two five dash zero zero one four with the amended conditions.

I'll second that. Okay, motion made by Commissioner Circle, second by Commissioner Pollack-Rood. Please vote.

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Congratulations. Now you can go and spend your money.

Thank you for your patience.

Is there any other items for consideration?

No additional items for consideration by the Planning Commission. Our next scheduled meeting is on the Tuesday after Labor Day. At this time, I do not have any items that are ready to move forward for a public hearing, so I anticipate canceling that. But if something comes up in the next week or so, we will let you know.

Okay. And Commissioner reports or comments? None? Okay.

I think I got all my questions answered at the last meeting about the little wedge on Oakdale.

September 4th, I'll be leaving for Michigan. I'll be gone for a whole month. So if we have a meeting in the second, I'll be here. If we have a meeting other than the second in September, Commissioner Edison will lead that meeting.

It's the big chair.

The big chair. Not the electric one. Okay. Well, I move to adjourn to September 2nd, 2025 at 7 p.m.

I second.

Okay. Motion made by Commissioner Sotile, second by Commissioner Serco. Please vote.

And motion carries by unanimous vote of members present.

Okay. Very good.