Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

The silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You may be seated. May we have roll call, please, Laura? Okay. Uh, Commissioner Sautille present. Commissioner Edison present. Commissioner Ciro present. Commissioner Morose present. And Commissioner Polloc Roode present. All commissioners in attendance. Thank you. Welcome to the Alcohon Planning Commission meeting. This meeting is being livereamed on the city of Alcohon website. Appeals of the final decisions of the planning commission made this evening must be filed in writing with the city clerk before 5:00 pm Friday, June 27, 2025, and must include the payment of a fighting fee. If you wish to speak on either a non-aggenda or an agenda item tonight, please fill out a request to speak card located by the agenda and return it in into the secretary who will call you up to speak when the agenda item comes up for public comment. We ask that you give us your name spelling your last name. Speakers are limited to three minutes. The display on the podium as well as the other monitors in the chambers will show time counting down. At 30 seconds, the podium clock readout will turn red, signifying you have 30

seconds until the end of your time. Applicants and individuals representing groups of people may be allowed more time if appropriate. All public hearing meetings should be addressed to me as the chair of the commission and not to individual commissioners or the staff members. Please turn off all electronic devices if you have not already done so. Pursuant to city council resolution number 114-79, a commissioner who has received evidence related to a matter before the planning commission other than an unescorted view of the subject property is required to discuss such information, disclose such information at the hearing. At this time, we will take comments from any member of the public on any item of business within the jurisdiction of the commission that is not on the agenda. Under state law, no action can be taken on items brought forward under public comment except to refer it to staff for administration or place it on a future agenda. Is there anyone who wishes to address the commission under public comment? Please come forward. Okay. Now we get to the uh consent calendar. A single motion will cover all items on the consent calendar. Does the commission wish to pull a consent calendar item for discussion? No. No, Mr. Chair. Does the staff wish to pull a consent calendar item for discussion? No changes from staff. Okay. I move to adopt the minutes as recorded. Okay. Okay. Uh motion made by Commissioner Ciro. Uh second by Commissioner Pollock RDE. Please vote.

Motion carries by unanimous vote. Very good. Okay. Okay. The second item is the Palms restaurant and banquet hall. The request is to consider revocation of conditional use permit number 2115 uh not subject to the squa and uh the staff recommendation is to revoke CUP 2115 staff. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh so starting here with a picture of the subject site uh on East Main Street. Um the existing Palms uh restaurant and banquet hall is authorized by conditional use permit 2115. Uh that again was originally approved in 2010. Um I just wanted to note for the record at that time uh the applicant had requested to operate a banquet hall um or meeting space um at the facility. Sorry about that. And that went uh all the way to the city council. Um ultimately the city council uh continued the hearing, referred the item back to the planning commission and that's when the planning commission actually approved a restaurant with occasional banquet use and that again was approved by the city council as well. So the the current review process that we are working on right now started in December of 2023 and that was when it was it was observed that the facility was not being operated as a restaurant. So um it's been going on for uh more than 18 months at this point. Um this is actually the sixth hearing or the sixth meeting that the planning commission has conducted. So I listed all the the hearing dates here. Um over that time period and those six meetings we have heard from multiple uh operators and representatives um all indicating that they would be working with staff to comply with the conditional use permit. Uh but at this time we still have not

seen compliance with the requirement to operate as a restaurant. So since the April 1st planning commission meeting, uh I made a total of 20 site visits uh to the property. I made those on various days of the week, including weekends at different times of the day at lunchtime as well as in the evenings. Um over the course of that, I prepared uh in the attachments to the report um synopsis of those events with notes about each site visit and what I observed. um a total of eight times um I was uh presented with a private event either occurring um and so that equates to essentially 40% of the total times that I went to the property it was not being operated as a restaurant um I also wanted to highlight uh on the two pictures that are shown here the picture on the right uh that was taken on Saturday May 17th and so that was actually during the America on Main Street uh event that the city um hosted Um some additional uh site inspection photographs here. U on two occasions of the eight occasions where private events were occurring, I did encounter um screening um curtains uh that were across the front of the door. That's the picture on the left there so that there was absolutely no visibility um shown to the interior uh of the business. Um additionally, I tried to capture what was happening on the outdoor dining area on each occasion. um for the outdoor dining area. I never once saw um anyone uh consuming food out there. Occasionally there'd be someone se seated there, but it appeared to me that they were probably just a passer by that stopped to use their phone or to send a text message. Um on the occasions that the business was open to the public, what I did observe was um typically uh empty tables along East Main Street with maybe a small group of people uh playing cards towards the back of the business. So really more um consistent with the conduct of a card room but not really as a restaurant. Um so these are

representative of those times when a private event was not occurring. So this side shows the required findings uh for the planning commission this evening. So the findings are the question essentially that the planning commission is being presented with. So, what you're being asked to do tonight is to look at whether or not the conditional use permit is being exercised as it was approved by the city council. So, again, the uh the city council approved a restaurant with occasional banquet uh banquet use or private events. Um so, based on um staff's observations and inspections, uh we can see that it's clearly not being operated as a restaurant. I just wanted to emphasize this here because it's important that we're not here this evening to negotiate with the applicant when it comes to the conditions of approval or to talk about how the business could be changed. The question for the planning commission is specifically is it being operated as a restaurant as approved by the city council uh with only occasional um private events and that's clearly not the case. So for public comments, uh staff did receive an a letter from the Elcohone uh business partners. Um the letter was sent to the planning commission uh this morning. It was uh received on Monday. Um the letter references uh long stretches of time uh where the business has been operated exclusively as a private hall or as an event space. Um it also indicates that there's no regular hours for the general public. So that would be consistent with what I experienced when I visited the site. um if I were to be just a a normal uh restaurant patron and I were to go to visit the site um it would be unlikely that I would encounter the restaurant to be open based on the site visits that I made. So uh based on this information, the staff recommendation is to conduct the public hearing and then to adopt the next resolution in order to revoke the conditional use permit. Um, again, if the planning commission uh decides to revoke the conditional use permit, uh, the applicant would have the opportunity

to appeal that decision to the city council. So, they could continue to take action during that appeal period and continue to operate um until the city council makes that final decision. So, with that, uh, that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any questions. I don't have any. Uh, fellow commissioners, do you have a question? Yes. Uh, Commissioner Rose, what year was that CU for the restaurant originally granted? was approved in 2010. And to your knowledge, has it ever operated in the capacity of a restaurant? Uh what I would say is that uh after it was approved, um it's it began operating. Um we have observed it operating more in line with a private uh club or facility. Um I would say that uh based on our level of staffing and code compliance that we are not actively going out and inspecting uh uses like this. So it really uh comes on a complaint basis. So in this instance, we received a complaint uh that initiated this 18th month process that we're in now. And that's where we have allocated resources to that to inspect it and make sure that they're operating in compliance. How many complaints did you guys receive? Uh it was just one verbal complaint. Okay. Um what was the reason? Was there ever a request to make it a banquet hall? Yeah, the original uh conditional use permit application that was submitted in 2010 uh by David Malikar uh the property owner uh was for it to be a banquet hall. So that went uh to the planning commission. The planning commission had uh recommended denial of that to the city council. When it went to city council, uh the city council discussed it and they um the applicant uh indicated that he wanted to work on his u proposal. the item was referred back to the planning commission and that's when they changed the uh proposal to be a restaurant with only occasional banquet use. Sure. Yeah, I think I do I do remember that and I think at that time we did have a lot of applications

for banquet halls, Crystal Ballroom, uh Babylon Palace, a few others. So yeah, I do I do think I remember that. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Yes, Commissioner Bon Road. Yes. when it was to be partially banquet, partially restaurant, was there any percentage given or was it just was supposed to be as both ways? It was supposed to be so it was never um intended to be partially banquet use. It was always to be when it was approved to be a restaurant and the applicant's um project narratives said it was going to be occasional use. Okay. And so um when it was approved in the resolution, it says ancillary banquet hall use. And so in the zoning code, the term ancillary typically refers to 15% or less. Okay. Um so that's typical of like in a retail zone you can have 15% wholesale or in a wholesale zone you can have 15% retail. And so that's the um the metric that we've used to analyze it. Okay. And I know in 2017 they tried to make it adult daycare and that was denied. So it was back to the original what it is right now. Was there ever plans at any point given as to how they're going to set it up or was it always just that huge kind of banquet hall setup that it's always been? Um, when it was approved, it was always kind of the large open space, uh, kind of banquet hall layout. Okay. Um, in 2010, uh, when the hearings were conducted and they were talking about having a banquet hall, they went through different iterations of maybe having a retail space that went back a certain amount of feet. Uh but that was never um it never was worked out and they decided to withdraw that request so it was never fully analyzed. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Um I'll open uh the public hearing. Uh yes. Do we have a speaker

cards, Laura? Uh yes. The first speaker is Vince Cula. How do you spell Cula? K A T T O U L A. Thank you. And I understand you need a little bit more than 3 minutes. Yes. Can I please have uh seven minutes? Yes, you can. You may. Thank you. All right. Good evening, Chairman Sautille and members of the Alcohol Planning Commission. My name is Vince Cula and I represent the soontobe new owners of the Palms restaurant and banquet hall. With me today are a few of the members of the new ownership group including Jeff and Raone Mansour. At the last hearing on April 1st, we made several promises to this commission. We told you all that we would begin opening for lunch, that we would operate primarily as a restaurant, that we would continue to remain open to the public, and that we would bring the palms into compliance with the existing cup before this meeting. We're here before you tonight to exa explain exactly how we have upheld all of our promises and how we've gone above and beyond what we said we were going to do. We got a new menu which you see here and I'm going to also hand it out as well. Mr. Cula, if you have uh like the menu you want to share, give it to the secretary. Got it. So our attorney can take a look at the staff. Okay. Thank you. Got it. Thanks. Uh beginning May 8th, we also began opening up for lunch at 11:00 a.m. and business is slowly building up. During the slow hours, right after lunch and before dinner, usually between 1:30 to 6:00, we occasionally host funerals. There's virtually no business during that time,

as you can imagine, right after lunch and before dinner in downtown Alcohon. So, we take advantage of that time to make a couple extra bucks by providing a venue for grieving families. We see it as a service to the community. We've also signed up with Door Dash, but it has not been the smoothest process. The staff report did indicate that they could not find us online on any ordering platforms, and here's why. Door Dash sent our machine to the wrong address, which you see here, and it has been a complete pain to onboard, deactivate the machine that was incorrectly shipped, order a new machine, and get it set up, which we now are set up with Door Dash. And you see this email right here back in in June, June 9th, saying that it's on its way. And then finally, the evidence, the smoking gun, that we are operating as a bonafide eating place as defined by alcohol beverage control. We did almost $90,000 in sales through over 2,000 individual items sold in May alone. I don't know of any comparable restaurants within the downtown area that's doing these type of numbers, especially after new ownership on month one. I also brought a receipt which cannot be manipulated in the Clover system that breaks down exactly what items were sold, how much was sold by each employee for the entire month of May that I will also pass around. The photos in the staff report don't entirely tell the whole story. And I want to take this opportunity to walk

you through each series of photos in the staff report. But before I do that, I want to put in the record that since April 1st, approximately 75 days ago, we've only had five private events, which is approximately 6%, far less than the 15% we are allotted, five per month. On 4:14, we had a funeral, but we were open for dinner at 6, which is the the whole goal of downtown, being available, open to diners in the evening. 424. That's not a private event as the staff report mistakenly identified. Those are just tables set up for a larger group. You can see the regular diners in the back of that picture. 5:15 we had a funeral but were open for dinner at 6. 517. Yes, we were closed for a kiniero. 518 we had a public community event, the bizaar that you see here. I mean, I I can't imagine we're being penalized for providing a public venue for Middle Eastern refugee women to make a couple bucks as entrepreneurs. Are we really getting dinged for that here? 522, we have different seating arrangements and you could tell that it's not a private event because there's no decorations. It's our tables that are set up in a different way. 529, we have a funeral, but we're also open at 6. And the same thing for uh 6ix9ine. And I want to take this opportunity to also walk you through our unique business. These types of facilities, these types of halls, if you will, restaurants, we call them nadis back home. And naddi in Arabic can best be defined as a social gathering place where you go after work, you get a drink, you get a bite to eat, play a board game or cards with your friends. This right here is a Kand Naste article showing the different nadis in Baghdad.

If Kande Naste can acknowledge nadis, I certainly hope that the city of Alcohon can as well. Western culture, we also have nadis. They just don't look exactly like how they would in the Middle East or the Middle Eastern versions of natti. What I'm a little concerned with about tonight is that there may be a lack of cultural awareness here where a use may appear to be something that it isn't. Here's a video of exactly what happens at the natty night. This was taken last night. You see guys ordering food, playing cards, drinking, having a good time with their friends. They usually show up right around 6:00 after work. They get a drink. You can see food on the table. Everybody's here with their own click or group of friends or family. One of the comments we keep hearing is how the Palms is not attracting visitors to the downtown area. This was bingo last Thursday. Completely open to the public. I mean, where else can you find entertainment like this in downtown Alcohon on a Thursday night? Again, completely open to the public. You see kids, you see women, you see, sorry, no kids. Uh, you see women, you see families, everybody's having a good time, ordering food, spending money, and getting some entertainment. At the last meeting, there was a frivolous claim that there we were just shuffling owners. Here is the evidence to prove otherwise. This is the executed purchase and sales agreement. Uh, this information has also been shared with the city manager's office. And then finally, we we plan on investing over $800,000 into this venture, including the business acquisition. And here are the renderings of what we hope it will look like after we close. This is a shot from Main Street. This is the patio along Main Street. This is the new seating layout. You see the bar all the way in the back that's against Main Street.

I could have easily had several dozen speakers here tonight, but I didn't out of respect for your time. They would have been asking you why their beloved Palms restaurant, a haven away from home, is being targeted. How come other restaurants like the Downtown Cafe or Redio Steakhouse aren't required to open for lunch? We've done everything you've asked us to do in a very short period of time, and our request tonight is that you reject staff's recommendation, and you find that the Palms is in conformance with CUP 2115 based on the facts presented in this presentation. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have any questions for Mr. Culla? Fellow commissioners. Uh Rebecc Commissioner Rebecca Pollock Road really quickly because it has an was in escrow. Has it closed yet or is it still in escrow? We plan on closing as soon as we get the green light from the city that it's safe for us to make this investment. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Edison, I just want to push back a little bit on some of the things. It wasn't a frivolous claim. I believe what the commission was saying was that we've been given a lot of different I don't want to call them promises, but we'll call it promises, saying we're going to do this. We've had several different speakers. The last owner came with council, which is fine, and they said that we were they were going to be the new um talking point. The next meeting it's sold. Um, from what I'm seeing in the staff report, and I'm not saying that everything you're doing is out of compliance. Um, I don't want to deal with absolutes. What I am saying is is that there is some kind of a problem. I mean, there's pictures showing that the windows are covered and that was one of the issues that was brought before the commission. We were given assurances it wouldn't happen. That is, you got to admit, I mean, proof is in the pudding

there. as far as having, you know, the different cultural events. I mean, being I've heard that comment like four or five times now, uh, being half Egyptian, it kind of keeps bothering me. I I am aware of this. I will tell you that you can have cultural events and you can have banquetss, but at the same time not make them very public, so nobody will really know about them. I think one of the issues that the city has and I drive past that place all the time. It doesn't have and I not going by your renderings because I mean that looks fantastic. Going by what we see today, it's not inviting and it's not it for lack of a better term is not a really good fit based upon today. If the question that's before us today is if they're in compliance. That's the question we're dealing with now, not what's going to what's coming. That's the problem we're having right now and it's been 18 months. So, it's really tough and you're coming in brand new with a lot of energy. I love the energy, but the question that's given to us today is are they in compliance with the C today? Any other questions? Mr. Gul, thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Laura, do we have a another speaker card? Uh, yes. I have a card. K. Turpin. And h how do you spell uh turpin? Like turpentine. Turpin. T u rb i n k turban. Good evening. Thank you for your service. I know you volunteer your time to do this. I came to vouch for um the applicant's personal character. I know Mr. Mansour through his charitable endeavors within the community. I know him personally. I know his family. Um he chooses to reside in the city of Elcohone. He owns several businesses within the city, all of which I would

consider are very well-run, well-maintained businesses. I'm not sure what's happened in the past. Uh, and you're right, it sounds like only until recently, until Mr. Mansour has been managing this, it's fell into compliance. Um, but I can assure you, if you make the decision to move forward in keeping the conditional use permit, this gentleman will be an asset to the downtown area and the Elcohone community. That's all. Okay. Any um any other speaker cards? Yes, we have one. Marco Leandry. Spell my last name. L I M an DRI. I'm the executive director of the Downtown Alcohon Business Partners. The company New City America. Just recently got that contract. We manage multiple districts throughout the state um including Little Italy and downtown Chula Vista and now downtown Alcohon. Um Vince, that was a very good presentation. I've gone by the Palms not as much as a lot of you, but please keep in mind that in Little Italy when I first started working there, we had 12 restaurants. We have over 80 now. We didn't lose one during COVID. So, I'm pretty aware of the way an opera a restaurant should be operating. Normally, you see a lot of activity in the morning in terms of food being dropped off, employees getting ready. If they're open for lunch, then they're there for lunch, dinner, and then our restaurants mostly closed at 10:00 at night. There's a number of things that were in the uh report that you did um a year ago, I can't remember the last date, but they spelled out specific things. And I think the one that and I'm not going to go through all of them that I listed in my letter, but I think that the key thing

is that the facil says the facility is based the proposal will enhance the pedestrianoriented atmosphere in downtown and contribute to the vibrancy of downtown by attracting more people to the area. And it appears, at least from my limited observation, that the facility is based in the heart of downtown is more of a club than it is a restaurant attracting people from outside of downtown. You also say the use of the restaurant for banquetss, private meetings shall only occur as long as the restaurant is operating as the primary use of the site. If the restaurant ceases to operate in the primary use of the site and banquetss and private meetings shall be prohibited. So just to sum up, I think that if in fact the plans are going forward as they've been presented, I think that's great. It becomes an asset to downtown. I would question whether or not today it is an asset to downtown. You have a 75 foot frontage hole in the middle of downtown. That doesn't seem to be at least in a lot of the events that we've been holding to be that active. Car shows brings in a lot of people. The concerts bring in a lot of people. Art of all brought in a lot of people. But it seems there were many people that were uh responded and stated that they did great business on those days. That's what we're trying to do now. We're trying to change the entire narrative. And just to give you an update on the board since we've taken over, the Magnolia is now on our board. The Marriott is now on our board. County representatives are now on our board. We have a vibrant uh committee system. And I would ask that the people that are talking about buying come and present their ideas to our committees. And if we seem comfortable with their efforts on a timely basis to move forward and open that restaurant seven days a week, understanding that other parties can be using it for funerals or other family occasions, that would be a good thing. But right now, it's not that positive

thing. And I think that the commission should state make a recommendation as staff had proposed. and if they come back with something then they should be allowed to operate as a restaurant as they see fit. But at this point it doesn't seem to be going in that direction. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any question for Mr. I have a question? Yeah, Commissioner Rose. Yes. Yes. Um how long uh what's the vision for downtown Elcohone? Great question. about 10 or 15 more sitdown restaurants because a food attracts people and also mixeduse development. I took a tour with Mr. Berg last week. Um Rick uh Kosak is from Michigan but his sister is here. They're doing the mixeduse project at uh Magnolia and Maine. Took us through the ground floor, second floor, all the suites. That's the future of downtown Elcohone is mixeduse people living in downtown Alcohon. So that's what our priority is to get a lot more activity. You attract people by having great food. Apparently that they do have good food and they have the ability to do that. But we need to look at the fact that no one's building office buildings anymore for downtown. The future of all downtowns, I don't care where you are, and I work all throughout the country, is mixed juice. We need to have people living in downtown. And that will begin to flip what's going on in downtown. What What do you What's the timeline like? How long do you think that'll take? How long did it take to get 10 restaurants to 80 in Little Italy? It happened pretty quickly once we turned the corner. Then a lot of people wanted there were derelch old buildings that were salons that became restaurants because people saw that they go there and they could make money doing those things. So to me, our goal is to have this happen within about 18 months to attract as many new restaurants as possible, support the existing restaurants, and try to facilitate as much mixeduse development. I'm fortunate that I know a lot of developers that have looked at Elcohon for a long time,

downtown Elcohone, and see potential, but they haven't been brought in and uh explained exactly why they're going to do well in downtown Alcohon. So, I would look at 18 to 24 months. Okay, that's pretty uh that's pretty aggressive. Yeah, life is short, so we just got to move quickly. So, So, you're you're with the Downtown Partnership. Have you ever suggested to people like Gabe at the downtown cafe that he should open for lunch or stay open after concerts? And why why is it when I leave a concert, nobody's open? I couldn't agree with you more. My wife and I love the Magnolia. We go there, we look and say, "Can we have a drink afterwards?" No, can't because there's not a critical mass of people to make it worth anybody's while to stay open. What Gabe might be doing with Downtown Cafe is really consistent with Gas Lamp. If you go to Gas Lamp, almost no business is open at lunchtime. Sure. It's they're primarily from five o'clock to 2 o'clock in the morning. You go to Little Italy and their day is 7 am to 11 pm because same restaurants will do breakfast, lunch, and dinner because they can make money doing all those things. So, I think that that's the issue. And I I've been complaining about not being able to go outside the magnolia. We would beg in other districts to have what a asset like the magnolia that brings thousands of people down here for cultural purposes. So, anything that we can do, and I talked to Rick um Kosk about this, that he's looking at possibly doing a wine bar on the corner so when people leave the Magnolia, you can stop and get a glass of wine and then head home. Those are the things that we really want to see. Yeah, because I don't even know what time uh the Italian restaurant, I don't know what time they close. What's is that manga beni or what's it called now? Mioaliano pesto pesto. So, so my my my concern is, you know, Elcohone was is it's a city that was built in the 40s and it's never really changed. And I think demographically wise, you know, I think

it's going to take a decade to change this place. Um, and I would, you know, and and to me, I I think what I heard from the applicant was basically, look, if we get the green light, we'll invest. And that's what we need is investment, right? We can't, you know, if I'm an investor and I come down here at 8:00 on a Friday, it's a ghost town. I'm not spending a dime here. So, I think we need to be careful also that we don't chase away people that are willing to invest. Um, knowing that this process is going to take time. I mean, if you look at the studies, there's a reason why there's not a Trader Joe's here. There's a reason why there's not a Whole Foods here. Elcohone is not a flush city with cash. We have a ton of poverty. We have a ton of apartments. Uh, most people are not coming from Kernney Mesa or downtown to go to Elcohone. And I'm not saying we can't do it, but I'm just saying that we need to be realistic on what the city of Elcohone is today. Um, and not drive everybody else out that's going to invest. We have a heavy Middle Eastern population. So, we do need to cater to them as well. Um, but at the same time, we need to be realistic on what we can do. I think a great start would be, like you said, let's get a wine bar. Let's get Gabe to stay open on a concert night. you know, that's it's a bummer. I go to concerts, nowhere to go, like you said, afterwards except the old the old bar that's up the street, you know, and so I just want to be careful that we're not, you know, throwing the baby out with the bathwater thinking that we're going to make this into some, you know, grand place in 24 months. I think we could do it, but I think it's I think it's going to take a lot longer than that. And it's going to take people's, you know, investing. I mean, I know they say build it and they will come, but we got to get them to build it first. You know, it took us 3 years just to get a development done on the corner of Magnolian Maine. That's a mixed use. It took three years to get that thing out of the ground. So, I'm just I'm just being realistic. I've been on this commission since 2009, and the city has not really moved since 2009. So, excuse me for being skeptical, but you know, I'm I'm a little skeptical at this point. I think we've done a lot to turn

around downtown Chula Vista in the last three years. It's happened pretty quickly. I think there's a formula to doing this. I would my my whole life is based upon attracting investment to certain areas and explaining to people why it makes sense for them to do that. And I would also say commissioner that there's no Trader Joe's in downtown San Diego. There's over 30,000 people that live there. Whole Foods is just opening up now after 20 years of residential high-rise development in downtown San Diego. Little Italy doesn't even have a market, but you know, it still thrives based upon the residential component of it. So, I'm optimistic. I've always thought that Elcohone had tremendous potential. You're really the downtown of East County for all intents and purposes. And I think you have great assets, great sidewalks, great landscaping. You have the Magnolia City Hall and the county building are here. These are all assets. It's a question of merging all these assets and then telling the world about it. And you don't have a PR firm that really promotes social media or PR. The best thing Chris was on multiple TV stations when Art of All happened. That's just the beginning I think of a lot of the things that we plan and we would love to have a great restaurant like you guys are planning and I know the Calaldian community here is extremely strong and they invest heavily all throughout the city. Question is we need to just it's really about critical mass and that's what we really need is critical mass at this point. Yeah. Um thank you. I'd like to point out Commissioner Mose that uh uh we did approve the last meeting the uh craft beer that that's an location and also I remember in 2008 we have an economic crash. Yeah. And a lot of business went out of business and uh and that we were in the middle of that. I remember we were doing many u apartment conversions into uh you know condos and so forth. So I think that's one of the factors why alcohon stopped in 2008 2009 2010 and so forth and so on. Okay. Thank you very

much Andre. Oh any other questions from commission. Yes commissioner pollic rune. Coming from a bartending background at college and I grew up in a college town which 4th Avenue was decimated and it came back I mean very lively. So I've seen the turnaround and how that can happen. But something like a restaurant like this how quickly do you think something like that could come to fruition? because if we're trying to turn it around and I know we've gone in circles and circles and circles and it's been many years with this location and it is a great location and I'd love to see what they're doing happen but what's logistically how long do you think they could turn around and make it that? Well, I my experience too has been that if you have good investment and you have good management, then it'll work because everybody I think there's a pent up demand for people to be in downtown Elcohone and want to be in downtown Elcohon, but La Mesa is trying to do uh you know, tried to become that village. Um I think that they're doing a pretty good job on it. It's taken a long time, at least 20 years to get to that point. But I just think that again this can be expedited with the downtown uh alcohol uh business partners working cooperation with the city. We work very closely with the assistant manager, city manager and the city manager and and entrepreneurs that want to open up a building and they want to do it uh to make money. Obviously, it's good for their families. So, I think it's putting all the pieces together and then pushing it as quickly as possible. I'm a pretty impatient person, so I always want to see things done quick as quickly as possible. So, we would be completely behind them if some of those drawings that you guys put out, which were really fine and people can enjoy the restaurant. I think it's a little big for a restaurant. Maybe they create two restaurants there. That's up to them, whatever they want to do. But I think that it's exciting to see that, but I think as we stand right now, and I think as Commissioner Edison said, you're looking at it what it is today. And if you extend it, I think they

always have the opportunity to come back and say, "Here we are. Escrow is closed. These are our plans. We're moving on these things. We have to close it for a few months in order to do all the tenant improvements." Then we'd want to push them as much as possible to get this thing open. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Laura, do you have any other cards? Uh, no other cards for this item. Okay. I have a question for the applicant. There's a quick one. Do you mind? Oh, okay. Um, I'm sorry. Yeah, you you can speak and then fill out the card later. Oh, he has a card. I thought they all were yielding. I apologize. Jeff. Okay. Yes, we're good. Hi guys. Jeff Mansour. So, as Vince said, you know, we bought this. We didn't buy it. We went in escro about two months ago. So our intention is to do we have a business plan just as we spoke but it is hard for us to close escrow unless we have the blessings of the city right it's a lot of money and we are willing to do that but we have to understand that the business dictates how it runs we can't dictate how a business runs business 101 this place it is a restaurant. It is a restaurant. You can see did over $90,000 in last month. But it's not just a restaurant. It's also a banquet hall. That means if if someone wants to come do a party in the middle of Alcohon downtown, it's 7,000 square foot. That's what it's intended for. And it says banquet hall. So you saw the party we did last Thursday. We had 350 people there. It's was open to the public as well. and it made money. And if if if we do a funeral, if somebody wants to do a

funeral over there, we charge $3,500 because it's it's it's just the demand. We can't control what the demand wants to do with the business. And I can't imagine a 7,000 square foot restaurant only. It just doesn't work. So, we have to ask ourselves, what do we do with this building? The current concept is working. People are coming there at nighttime. They're eating. They're drinking. When they want to do a private party, we do it two, three times a month, which is fair. We're trying to open for lunchtime, which we just did it for about what two months almost. It's not as busy as it is because we haven't done that. That previous owners only open at night time. So, we're trying we bring Door Dash to try to get it going. My point is we're not in full force yet because it's not ours yet. The business is not ours. It hasn't closed escrow. And I can't go spend $800,000 on a business if I'm not comfortable. And for now, we're not comfortable because we don't feel the city's behind us. So, if you want a good partnership, we are it. And we would love to work with Marco. We have great ideas where we can together make Alcohon better. Together make the go with the vision. There's a lot of investors I would love to work with Marco. It's great. But you got to work with us. You know, if if you revoke this license, you have another vacant building. What did we accomplish? Nothing. Unless you have a better idea. If you come right now tell me, "Hey, I'll buy it. I'll take over. I got a good idea. Here's $500,000. Come and take it. You run it. Mr. Mansour. Yes, sir. Your time your time

is up. So, my point is let us do it. Give us a chance and let's prove ourself and hopefully that's the decisions you make and we'll work together to accomplish our goal. We all have the same goal. Commissioner Edison has a question. Yes, sir. Commissioner has a question. And you might have answered this already, but when does escrow close? Escrow is contingent on this decision. So, we can close as early as as two weeks, 3 weeks if we want. It's contingent. I'm told the seller, I can't buy it right now. Can't because I don't know what the city wants. And remember, this meeting was supposed to be next month. I told Vince, we can't. We're wasting time. Let's do a month earlier. I Right. Right. We we change it from next month to this month because we need to know where the city is at. We need to know what to do and we're kind of stuck right now and we want to move forward. But and I can appreciate that 100%. I do disagree that the business doesn't drive it. The cup decides what business is going to be active there. I will say that. But I will also say this. I appreciate that you're saying I can't invest money if the city's not behind it. It's common sense. And uh I also agree that another empty building is not advantageous here. The problem is is the question that we're being asked is for today is are they in compliance with the CP? That's what I keep going back to. I think what's and I think there is a need for what you guys want. There really is with with those renderings. Yes. With what it is today, no. It's just a continuation of what we've been doing for the last 18 months. what what what we were doing before is not working. That building's too big. I agree with you. Just restaurant only. I agree. But I think it's flipped a little bit, at least from the staff report that it's showing that it's more, and I might be wrong. I might be interpreting it wrong.

I don't know everything that it's being in more of a club than uh restaurant. And I'm not saying that's I'm just saying what the staff report is and what we've experienced in the past 18 months. Um the energy is there. the the vision is there. Uh it's just a matter of the execution. You're coming in with a lot of, for lack of a better term, baggage on that particular property. Um I want this to work. I just can I reply to that, Mr. And so it to answer your question, it is a restaurant, but it's not your it's not your the type of restaurant that maybe you're you're thinking about. The point is is that food and drinks and is is being sold over there. People come and eat and they drink. We're all open to the public. And it'll be, in my opinion, it's a great restaurant, but it has a lot more opportunity if you let us to do it. And it'll be a lot better if we let us invest the money and let us do what we what we want to do with it. And you'll see the outcome. Yeah. Well, the the restaurant to operate as a restaurant does not need a cup. By right, you can operate as a restaurant. The reason why I needed a CUP is because of the banquetss because the banquet is add is adding something other than a restaurant into that area. So even if the CUP wasn't there, you could operate as a restaurant, no problem whatsoever, because it's already on, right? But it can't be just a restaurant is my point. I understand what you're saying because there's demand for other things to make it work, right? I understand. Right. So you have to have some makes so when it's restaurant when it needs to be restaurant, but if if if some if we can do a party over there, somebody needs a private event, there's good money in that. Why not? Which downtown you can think of doesn't have a party hall?

Downtown San Diego has a party hall. You go to downtown uh um where Laame Mesa any downtown that you can think of that want somebody wants to do a party where would you go do a party? So in Elcohone you got places like Royal Palace, you got places like the Palm. There's there's nothing wrong with that, but it needs in every city needs and alcohol should have it and and this is one of them. All right. Any other questions? I got a question real quick. Just one second, Mr. Murer. If I I went to uh downtown cafe and did my Christmas party there one year and I took the whole back room. What What's the percentage of restaurants allowed to have banquetss? Is it like 15 15%. Okay. Okay. So my question is the renderings that I saw what you're saying then is if if you allow if you allow the cup to continue you're going to invest the money you're going to turn this in. Have you ever considered maybe maybe almost like partitioning it off? It's you're right. It's 7500 ft. That is too big for people to walk in on a on a Tuesday night for tacos, right? You need obviously x amount of space for a restaurant and and x amount of space for a banquet. Have you ever considered hard or soft partition where you have a restaurant in the front and maybe banquet in the back, but if there's a big enough party, you open the whole thing up? I mean, I'm just Absolutely. Absolutely. We are we're going to we're very flexible, but you can't put a a permanent wall, right? Sure. Because think about it. If you want to have a a party, you you want to come and do a an engagement party, right? you and you want to reserve the whole place. I can't say okay, you know, you can just do half and the other one if it's only one or two times a month. So once again, the the business model is is

is it needs a combination because the the market kind of dictates what it wants with our with with with our intention as having it a full restaurant. But occasionally, just like it is, if somebody wants to rent it out, we can divide it. We can put dividers in the middle, like you said, and we've done that before. We've done it. Have a nice divider in in the middle where people can still eat in the front and have their private party in the back. But not everybody wants that. Right. Right. And if you have a funeral, I mean, you can't have a funeral with saying, "Okay, guys, you guys can come over here. Well, we're doing a a little funeral." But there's possibility we say, you know what, we we'll discontinue all funerals. We don't have to do them, you know. But well, well, I agree. I mean, listen, just because you have a cup does not dictate what the market's going to do, right? I get it. We've done, this is going back to 2010. It was a cup for a restaurant. The market said otherwise. The market said it's too big of a space for a restaurant. The market said Gab's not going to open at lunch. No one's opening at lunch. I get it. You guys tried to open at lunch. I think that's admirable. I think just like he said, Fifth Avenue doesn't open for lunch. There's a reason for that, right? So, I get that. So, I see that you guys are, you know, you're trying. Um, I would have to echo what Mr. Edison said. I don't want another vacant building. I mean, there's got to be a a solution. And maybe, you know, I love what you've you've done as far as the renderings. You know, my question is, is is that really what's going to take place? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We were going to remodel it. You're going to see a lot nicer building and um it's going to look good. We're going to put a nice bar where we said we're going to do it. And we we have plans. But once again, it's hard for me for us to go invest that money unless we have the blessings of

the city. You got we have to have we have to have feel that we're safe. Our investment is safe. That you're not going to come in 6 months or oh still looks like this. Let's shut him down. No, you got to give us time. Business takes time. Good business takes time to develop, but but it's it's already good right now. It's already good enough to pay itself with the money that is generating. You saw the numbers. Mr. Menser, uh, Commissioner Pock has a question for you. Just a quick question. I've dealt with a lot of businesses over the years and I I'm a realtor by trade, so I know that you're not going to want to close escrow if you don't have this support. I totally understand that. The biggest thing is just to have something there that's actually going to work with the city and now that we have other great partners kind of helping Elcohone be everything it can be to maybe take into those ideas and because I know it is a huge space for a restaurant. I mean that that's huge and I agree the banquet hall was a great idea and if we could in your designs or your renditions or something maybe have some separation where you can separate it but still have the whole space and if you want to do a funeral or something maybe you still could do that but still have this separate be so you can maximize the space because it is such a big space that it doesn't really look like a restaurant right now and to try to and your renderings were Great, but it's hard to see all the specifics of it. And you said there was a bar at Funge, which is great, but I I don't know if you shared anything with the city, and we don't really know what it's going to be. And I know you're coming in at the 11th hour where this has been time after time after time with this place, and we'd love to see it. It's it's prime real estate here. We would love to see something great there. But I'm hoping that you know maybe and it's hard right now cuz we have to make a decision but you haven't closed escrow and you don't want to close escrow until we know what we can do. So it is a

difficult situation but I definitely would love to see what you've drawn in downtown Alcohon because we need another that's the whole point of downtown having those vibrant business here. But hopefully if it does go through that, you know, we can because I don't want you to close escrow on something and then it all falls apart because we're not working together and then it gets pulled out from under you again. So I I just I hope that I mean are who are you willing to work with and get this all going if it did go through? Yeah, I mean we are ready. We want this place and we are 100% ready to move forward and close escrow. We just need a little blessings. Say, "Okay, go for it. We'll work with Mark." Marco, he can come over there and kind of explain to him. You can see the vision. And we're willing to work with you, with Marco, with the developers, with the city to accomplish the same goal. We are willing to do that, but it's it's not it's it's a lot of money, right? It's a lot of money. No, I understand. So, that's all we're asking. Just blessings. Go for it and let's see what happens. Let's go for it and you will see. Let us close escrow. Move forward. Give us a year. Give us two years and come and see what happens. Two. Now if you give two years and nothing has changed, a year and nothing has changed. Then you come and knock on doors. Hey, what happened? Why you guys still operating like this? Mr. Mansour, you made your point. Is there Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Uh Laura, any other cards? Uh yes. Uh Ramon Mansour. Okay. Yes. Yes. Thank you for your time. Um so just wanted to kind of go through our our our business plan really quick. We had shared this with uh with the with the city manager and uh essentially is

is you know h how do we make sense of all this? How do we think our our investment is safe? Why do we think we can you know make this happen? And so far just based on this you know month and a halfish um we we know we can do it and and um just wanted to briefly just go go through um how can you use the space in our eyes how could we use this space and make sure it's successful make sure we're happy as investors and make sure the city's happy with the outcome and I think this the goal is like you said bring bring people to this area um food drinks is just, you know, it it might not be the the kind of restaurant bar, you know, that every everybody's, you know, hopes to to have, but this is what we think what we know will work. We know it's working. And um essentially what what what we've got is um is is a mixeduse business. And the mixeduse business is fast casual dining from from lunch. So 11:00 am to 6 pm full service dining from 6 pm to 1 pm and takeout and delivery all day. Like right now, for example, Door Dash is live. You can go on your phone, you can order food. Um that'll help. And then we've got what we think in terms of uh revenue, what we think uh we can get to. And if we just get to about 141,000 in in sales, this uh our investment will pay off within 5 years and we have a successful business. Well, we're at 90,000 already. And part of it is majority of it is is is the food that we're talking about. But it happens from 6:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. That's when the most of the business is is is there. those occasionally for example like we cater our you know at the end of the day we're we're Calaldians that this kind of

business does cater to to a lot of the Calaldians in the area and things like allowing them to do a funeral service which means you know two 300 people come to this one thing and they mourn and then they have a lunch and they do this. It's not cheap. It's $3,500 is what we charge. It's for a few hours but we make it private. It's their event. you kind of, you know, you got to close the window, but you don't want someone walking walking in on and you got people crying, you know, in mourning. And so we secure that with those within those hours, but bam, by 6 p.m. we're open and and we're we're rolling out dinner. And so, um, we we we we're confident in in in it working. We're seeing the numbers. We just need just kind of, you know, support a little bit to say, "Hey, look, you know, uh we won't shut down a C right now. Go ahead and and and do this thing and and and you'll see the the outcome." Okay. Thank you. Do you have any commission uh questions on Mr. Mansour? No. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Any other cards? Well, I have a couple of cards. I wanted to confirm whether they would like to speak or whether they had wanted to yield their time. Okay. Um are Artine Shia and John Mansour I have cards. Just making sure they did not want to neither of them need to speak but I did want to take an opportunity to clarify something. Noah Tony if you guys can verify this. The CUP was not to authorize a restaurant alone. It was to authorize the alcohol sales along with the restaurant. Is that correct? Yes, the CUP uh includes alcohol sales as well as live entertainment. So if if you revoke the cup, the restaurant can still operate, but you can't have the live entertainment and you can't have the alcohol. That would essentially shut the business down. Yeah. Thank you. Okay.

No, no other cards. Correct. There are no further speakers for this item. Okay. I I move to close public hearing. I'll second that. Uh motion made by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Rose. Please vote. And motion carries by unanimous vote. Okay, Mr. Chairman, if I may interject before we start deliberations. Um I just I brought up the uh slide again for the required findings and what we're talking about this evening. Um, again, I just wanted to emphasize that, um, what the planning commission is looking at is whether or not the business is being operated as a restaurant and whether or not there's an occasional private event. Um, the one thing that we can't do tonight is to, uh, negotiate what counts as a private event and what doesn't count as a private event. So, um, clearly a funeral, uh, constitutes a private event because it's not open to the public. Um, and so what we can't do is say, well, the funeral doesn't count because it happened between 2 and 4 p.m., but they were still open for as a restaurant in the evening because it's still just a private event. So, the conduct of multiple funerals of multiple private events um really is a violation of the conditional use permit. I think what you heard from the applicant uh this evening and the speakers is a desire to uh operate a use uh that has more uh frequent private events than what is allowed by the conditional use permit. So this is similar to what we talked about at the last meeting on April 1st when they they said uh similar things which is the space isn't conducive uh to a restaurant only and that it's more conducive to private events um on a more frequent basis. So the avenue for them to explore that isn't for the planning commission to bless that as as a use. It's for them to apply for an amendment to the conditional use permit so that it can be evaluated by staff and analyzed and then brought back to the planning commission. So for tonight, what we're looking at is

whether or not the conduct of what they've done since April 1st was primarily a restaurant. And I think from staff's perspective, it clearly has not been primarily as a restaurant. um if they want to move forward uh with a new application they could submit for the conditional use permit, we can analyze that. We could bring that back to the commission. I think it really boils down to um expectations, right? So all that I have is the previous conditional use permit resolution which just says occasional or incidental banquet use. if they want to negotiate on having um funerals on weekdays from two to four that those are things that can be integrated into a conditional use permit operational conditions so that the expectations for the applicant and for staff and for the planning commission are all on the table. But tonight the purpose of this hearing is not to make those negotiations. um if they want to make that investment and they want to receive that security and and have the confidence that they can move forward with that investment that can only be resolved through uh an update to the conditional use permit so that they know what they're proposing has been approved by the planning commission or city council if needed. So again I would just go back to the findings which is um they have been exercising uh the operation of the business in contrary uh to the conditional use permit by the number of events. They still have the ability uh if the planning commission revokes the conditional use permit tonight to appeal that to the city council. If they do want to move forward um they can apply for an amendment to the conditional use permit um as soon as they can submit that to staff and we would be expediting it. From a staff perspective, we want to encourage that investment in downtown and we'd be working with them um closely to get that back to the planning commission as soon as possible. But again, please for the planning commission to focus on this finding, which is have they been operating contrary to what was approved and having too many private events. Thank you. I have a question for staff. So you you we could say, hey, uh you know, we're going to run this thing as a

a restaurant. Let's amend the conditional use permit to say 50% private events, 50% restaurant or whatever whatever the market has dictated, you know, over the last 15 years, right? We find that we're only actually able to make this a restaurant 35% of the time and we make the rest of our revenue off of private events because that's what that's what the market says. You're saying that that could be done through an amendment to the conditional use permit. Correct. They could propose that through the conditional use permit. um staff would have to analyze that within the context of the goals for downtown. So, I can't promise that a staff recommendation to approve that would be forthcoming. Uh but that would be the process for them to move forward. Additionally, if they if the um conditional use permit is revoked tonight u and they appeal to the city council, they can continue operating during that appeal period. If in that appeal period they submit for an amendment to the conditional use permit u as part of that appeal, we could bring that uh information to the city council. they could uh make a determination as to how they want to move forward with that appeal. So, I just want to be very clear that we're not here to negotiate with them on their operation. It's just whether or not they've been in compliance with the existing conditional use permit. Okay. Okay. If if we decide to Okay, I'll I'll I'll hold my questions for later. Okay. Okay. All right. I'm just thinking out loud. What say you, Commissioner Rebecca? I'm being polic I want to call you Rebecca for some reason. You look like a Rebecca. You can just call me Rude. Um, it's difficult for me because it seems like we've been going in circles yet now we have a new vision and they haven't and their whole sale of this place is based on that vision. And if we revoke this, then that vision probably will not come to fruition because yes, they can appeal. They can

go through the process, but they're in an escrow period and all that takes time and escros only last so long. Rate locks only last so long unless they're paying cash and then it's irrelevant. But it it it's kind of a difficult situation because of the situation that they're in. Not necessarily. As Nova stated, uh they can ask for an amendment to the uh to the COP. No, I understand that. But they're in escrow. So an escrow is a time frame, right? And if they have an interest rate, that's only locks for so long and then they have to pay for an extension for the time given. So I'm not saying that that should be the only thing we should think about and just give it to them because it's going to be great. I don't know. And because we've so many times gone in a circle on this, but because of the situation that they're in and they're in escrow, and I think that if it's revoked, they might not move forward because then their vision is that it's still uncertain and it might be just too costly for them to keep going and they'll move on and then it'll be another empty building. or the person who was doing it before that we went around and around and around with, we'll still own it and then we'll still be going around and around and around, right? So, until someone else buys it, which someone may and it will be a great thing. So, it's kind of a catch 22. So, as Noah said, are they doing what they're supposed to do? Well, not really. But then they don't really own it. So they can't really do what they want to do yet because they're not going to spend one penny on something that they are not that they don't own. Mr. Chairman, if I may just interject quickly. Um so the one thing that I would emphasize is that um the the pictures that were shown tonight, those aren't guarantees of future investment. Um the only way that the planning commission could guarantee that those things are requirements is through a conditional use permanent amendment. So

I I agree with you. We want to see that investment in the downtown and we want to realize the vision that uh council and uh the business improvement district are working towards. Uh but what we can't do is rely on an old permit that's outdated that they're trying to operate with like a new model on. So they really just need to amend the conditional use permit. Um the and so the issue is is that even if they're in escrow um they can continue to operate through an appeal period and they can submit that conditional use permit and we can uh process that moving forward. Uh but again there's no guarantees uh that if the planning commission were to um uh deny the revocation this evening that anything that they have shown uh would be would occur. It would not be required. Correct. No, I I agree with you there. But that that's just my my only my only concern. So I really probably meant nothing and but I'm just I'm a little bit concerned because I don't want to see an empty building. But I understand the pressures they're under. So it's kind of a catch 22 here. But I understand the frustration because you signed back in I think 2010. You've been 20 and it's never probably been you know. So and just sorry one more thing Mr. chairman that this is also kind of the conversation that we had on April 1st which was you know the the applicant's narrative isn't quite fitting um with uh the discussion or with the existing conditional use permit. So if you recall uh we had closed the public hearing and then reopened it to ask the applicant if they'd be willing to submit that conditional use permit amendment which ultimately they decided not to. I can't force them to submit a conditional use per permit amendment. Um they decided to move forward with the information that was presented tonight. Um, so that's really what we have to deal with. Uh, but they can be processing a conditional use permit starting tomorrow. Um, and so if the planning commission um wants to see that happen, they can certainly encourage them to submit that conditional use permit. But again, the

question here today is only are they only having occasional uh private events or banquet and and they are based on the testimony um having more than that. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Morse, do you have something uh new to add to what what's already been said? Yeah, so um one thing she said was one thing that Noah said was he's absolutely right. There is no guarantee that they're going to build if we, you know, do not revoke the permit. That same guarantee is there is no guarantee that the city is going to approve a conditional use permit. There's no guarantee that they're going to say 5050 if it doesn't align with what staff wants either. So, it's like a trust issue right there in my opinion. We got to trust each other. Okay? They're bringing $90,000 worth of sales in a month. Tell me another business that's doing that. My other thing really is, you know, what are we even doing here right now? We have a dead town. And I'm not saying this is happening, but the appearance of singling out this one business to some people would be obvious. There's not a line of people waiting to rent that place out. There's not a bunch of investment coming into this city. And these guys are sitting here trying to put 800 grand and we're sitting here busting their chops. I'm a business owner. Tony, you are a business owner. Business doesn't go the way the city or the state or the federal government writes it up. It goes the way the market dictates it. And these guys are trying their best. And you know what? Let's face it, you guys. Right now, it is mostly a banquet hall. And it's bringing $90,000 of revenue and a card room. And a card room. It's doing that. Otherwise, what is it going to be? It's going to be a place where someone is going to sleep in the morning when it's vacant. They're going to sleep in the back area. The sidewalk will become a place where the alcohon people squirt

down the gum and the urine because you guys, that's what alcohon is right now. I want to fix it, too. But we're going to drive people out. I I don't understand why we're even having this conversation tonight. You know, let's work. Let's trust the city. Let's trust the staff. This is to me, this is this is sad that we're even doing this, that we're worried about whether or not it's a a banquet hall or a restaurant when the city is dying. I mean, I've never seen anything like this in my 15 years. You know, I've got an opportunity to make this thing great, an opportunity to spend money, and I'm sorry, and I know the downtown partnerships around, but where you been for the last 15 years? I echoed that last time. Okay, maybe now we're bringing something in. But just like these guys who are coming in a little bit too late, it sounds like because they're taking this over. The downtown partnerships finally getting their act together after 15 years. But now these guys are going to pay the price. So let's go ahead and revoke their cup so it can be vacant because it will take two to three years before there's any tenant in there. It took two to three years just to get the stinking building built on Maine and Magnolia that we approved. So, I don't know what we're doing picking on these guys tonight, but that's just I'm sorry if I'm being passionate right now, but what else are we going to do? At least there's human beings in a building until 10:00 at night in downtown. Probably the only building there is. And here we are just going to revoke it because it doesn't fit the narrative. That's my take. Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, if I just might interject, Anthony Shu, director of community development. Um, I know you haven't seen me in quite some time, but I want to r remind the planning commission that back in 2010 when this was brought before the planning commission for a banquet hall. It was denied because it didn't align with the downtown master plan, which is an ordinance, specific plan number 182. And an ordinance is a regulations. It's a law, right? Type of uses, types of standards, these are

what's applied to the downtown. City Council saw that as well and they said in your packets the resolution is included that this must be a restaurant. If it's not operating as a restaurant and it's operating as a banquet hall, which I'm hearing some of the planning commissioners say, then is in violation of the cup. It's in violation of the ordinance of the downtown master plan. The commission has a choice to find that based on the finding that's in front of you presented by Mr. Alvi, it is not consistent with that approval in 2010. It is not consistent with the downtown master plan. Therefore, it's in violation of the conditional use permit and it must be revoked if the planning commission wishes to see something different based on we'll say more than just the promise and and some presentational slides. Then the applicant can submit the application for a restaurant with alcohol sales to the staff. I guarantee we will expedite it. If it's a completed application, we'll have them before before the planning commission within a matter of weeks. And then we'll rush their building permit plans through the building permit process and they can get to work as quickly as possible if that's the vision. But right now, all we're hearing is words. We've only heard that for 18 months and nothing has changed. I encourage plan commission to adhere or follow staff's recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Circle. Um I really appreciate the vision that has been presented and I'm I'm on the side of we want to have business conducted in El Cone. We want business downtown. We want people here. And I agree with

Commissioner Morose that we don't want another vacant building. I also see 90,000 in sales in a month. That's no nothing to laugh at. Um the question of whether or not we're following this conditional use permit is what's on the table. And I tend to agree with uh the staff's evaluation that the vision that you presented is an excellent vision, but it needs a different conditional use permit to follow that because right now we're looking at this. We're evaluating you based on this plan and it's not working. and you guys can't invest without us saying go ahead, but we can't say go ahead because you're not following this permit. So, uh, what Noah mentioned, Mr. Alvie said, is that, and this is something we walked through with somebody else before, I don't remember, revocation of a cup does not mean your business ceases immediately. Instead, it's the beginning of a process. I'm not saying I want to revoke your cup, but what I'm saying is if we revoke your cup, that's not the end of the line for this vision. What we need is a new cup that will work for downtown in the building and make the business model fit with what our ordinance is. Now, I don't understand why we have three banquet halls in downtown. Why can't we have a fourth one? I don't know. why we need a restaurant right there instead of a banquet hall. I don't know. And there's something that I think um you mentioned cultural sensitivity

and the the article about the naughty. It's a very important hub and that's something that the city of Elcohone has wrestled with for as long as I've been on the planning commission. Well, why are you guys all sitting around playing cards? Well, it's a social hall. Well, it's not a social hall anymore than a bar is a social hall, but our zoning ordinance doesn't have a spot for that. And I think that's something that we can address with the planning department is, hey, we've got a large Calaldian community. Maybe we need to create a naughty zone uh or something that it fits into. That's not for tonight though. For tonight, the matter is business is being conducted. Great for Elcohone. But is vis business being conducted according to the conditional use permit that's currently in place? And it seems like the answer is no. From a visual point, from these visits, we see building closed. Um, it doesn't make it clear why it's closed during normal business hours. I think as part of a new conditional use permit, there might be something where you have a sign that says closed for private event until 6:00 or 5:00 or 4:00 or whatever it is, but that's for a future conditional use permit where we could put it into the plan and say, "Hey, a couple times a month there is a private event." I think that's great. Personally, I think that's awesome. We need places for private events. The issue is with the current conditional use permit, that business plan doesn't match. So, that's where we're at tonight. Commissioner Edison,

you said everything you said you want to say. Okay. Okay. Well, I I understand everyone's uh point of view. I got one question real quick. The 90,000 that came in, if if people are coming in and buying food and drink and playing cards, is that considered a restaurant if it's not a banquet's not going on? I mean, because it might be the same people coming in three times a week like a bar. Hey, buddy. It's good to see you again. I'm just curious what is the amount of receipts. I would love to know what the amount of receipts are coming in currently out of that 90 that is scheduled events versus just guys coming in on a Tuesday night, you know, eating and playing cards or doing whatever, just talking or whatever. Well, how many restaurants do you see people sitting down and playing cards in Alcohon? A ton. Yeah. Outside of Alcohon, uh, not many. Yeah. Okay. Well, with all that being said, um I I I think we've come at the end of the line and I think this situation has to be stepped up to a higher level. And what I mean by a higher level is that uh possibly the city council needs to make this this decision whether we continue on or not because how long do we keep on postponing it? We've been out here six times and I think I I never seen a CUP come before us six times. I mean, this is unusual and I've never seen an alone up ever being denied. I mean, that's unusual either. And it's not not I've been here almost 20 years now. I never seen it before. So, uh, my opinion is that, uh, if if we revoke the cup this evening, uh, they can appeal it to the city council where they make the final

decision or they can work with staff to get a new CUP. And as they promised, within a couple of weeks, they can probably get an answer. I I think that uh, we've come to the end of the line. And with that being said, I want to uh, make a motion. I I want to make a motion to adopt the next resolution in order revoking cup number 2115. Do I have a second? I'll second. Okay. Motion by Commissioner Sautil, second by Commissioner uh Edison. Please vote. Okay. Okay. Motion carries. Three votes for and two votes against. Okay. Okay. Uh you can uh appeal it to the city council. In the meantime, you can do all the things that you have done or you can uh apply for an amendment with the with the city and see if you can uh get a new cup in accordance with our regulations. I'm sorry that it's come to this uh situation, but it's not the end of the line. it can still go on and probably go on until before the escrow of escrow. Mr. Chairman, if I may interject as well, uh it's a 10-day appeal period. So, the appeal period ends on uh June 27th at 5:00 p.m. Okay. Did you hear that? June 27th at 5:00 p.m. Okay. Thank you very much. And uh thank you for doing business in Alcohol. Appreciate it. Okay, the next item it's the project name is Carol's

Community Care and it's a request to amend CUP number 185 and also 631 for a residential care facility. It's SQA exempt and staff is recommending to approve. Staff. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh so here's an image of of the subject site at 523 Emerald Avenue. Uh this picture is looking east on Emerald Avenue. Uh so we're south of West Lexington and then north of Chamberlain. So for background purposes, uh during 2023, uh staff had observed an increase in calls for service at the facility. On April 16th of 2024, the planning commission conducted a review of the facility and after receiving testimony uh ultimately decided not to schedule a public hearing based on assurances from the operator that they would work with staff to address the problems that were occurring. Uh staff did meet with the operator every few months uh during 2024. Uh but calls for service uh remained high during that period. Uh ultimately we brought this item back to the planning commission on April 1st of 2025 and at that time the planning commission directed staff to schedule a public hearing to look at whether uh new conditions, operational conditions or site enhancements needed to occur in order to ensure compatibility with surrounding properties. Uh the agenda report includes the complaints uh that had been filed uh with the state and many of the complaints that were filed with the state were similar to the calls for service uh that the city has been experiencing. So issues were that management or staff were not present. Uh there were trespassing issues, uh property maintenance issues, uh noise complaints. Uh there was also uh health calls for things like cramping legs and falls or uh lift assist. So in staff's opinion, these uh complaints and calls for service could be reduced or eliminated with management that's more effective as well as operational programming and physical enhancements to the property.

So these are the proposed site operations. uh improvements that staff is proposing. Uh we really were looking at taking a common sense approach uh how to address some of these issues. Uh so one of the main issues was that there was not secured perimeter fencing. Um so people could come and go. There was issues with uh trespassing where uh people uh that had been evicted from the facility or weren't allowed to be at the facility were coming onto the property and then management was calling the police department to have them removed. So a locked perimeter fence would be able to address that. Um, additionally, providing a telephone or intercom connection from the locked fence uh to on-site staff for guest access uh would be required. Uh, we're not stipulating how that would occur. You know, it could be a phone number, it could be an intercom system. Uh, we're willing to work with the applicant to address that. Uh, another problem that was occurring is that uh calls were going unanswered. So, if you remember, there were calls that were coming from the hospital back to the facility to help uh facilitate the release of a tenant where no one was answering. and no action could be taken. So, we're asking uh the operator to implement a phone calling tree uh system that allows calls to be redirected when the uh primary on-site manager is not present so that those calls can go to a backup uh and then a subsequent backup as well. And then lastly, we're asking uh for the operator to enter into a contractor agreement for medical transport for basic life service. Uh so there were certain calls for service like I mentioned for cramping legs or other things that may be uh done without uh a h heartland fire uh response. So for the proposed ongoing conditions of approval uh we are proposing to uh update the maximum capacity uh for the facility to 70 individuals. If you recall it was 58 individuals that were approved by the the previous two cups. uh 70 individuals uh have been approved by the state and so this update uh to make it 70 individuals would be consistent with the state approvals. Um

staff does not have a concern with the increase um in capacity as long as the facility is properly managed and these implementation measures are are um required uh so that we can reduce calls for service. Uh the ongoing conditions of approval also require the maintenance of the security fencing, maintain the security or the uh medical transport contract or agreement. Um ensure that an on-site manager is present at all times 24 hours per day. Uh some of the experiences from the police department is they've had calls where there's not an on-site manager that's there um at night. And then uh we're also asking for uh the operator to provide contact information for the onduty managers uh to be on file with the city so that we have the contact information as well. Um we did receive uh two written comments uh from residents in the vicinity. Uh so one was attached to the staff report and then the second was distributed to the planning commission uh this morning via email as well as a copy left at the dis here. Um and we did receive one phone call uh from an adjacent property owner. Um all of them um related similar issues which were the frequent police activity um the high volume of uh calls for service that were happening out there uh the trespassing issues as well as noise issues. So um you know staff want to continue to work with the operator and but we want to ensure that the operation of the facility can be uh compatible with surrounding properties and uses. So, what we're asking the planning commission to do tonight is to conduct the public hearing, adopt the resolution um saying that the project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act and as well as approve the resolution for the conditional use permit update. And then we would schedule a review of the conditional use permit in approximately 90 days in order to ensure that they're making adequate progress on those site enhancements and whether or not uh it's helping to reduce the calls for service that are out at the facility. um the both the uh police department and

fire department have been very concerned. So, we've been working proactively with them. So, throughout 2024 when we made those multiple visits to the site, we had um representatives from the police department and the fire department as well as uh the building official that were accompanying on those inspections. Um so, specifically, I just want to acknowledge Lieutenant Thornton from the police department who's here. Uh he can speak to any of the calls for service from the police department's perspective. And then uh division chief Nevin from the fire department is also here. So they're very concerned and we've worked proactively with them as I said in order to draft these uh operational conditions. And again what we think we're recommending is just some common a common sense approach to the conditional use permit that can help reduce calls for service and ensure compatibility. So that uh concludes staff's presentation. Happy to answer any questions. Okay. Uh do you have any questions? No. Okay. Wait, real quick. Real quick question. um of of the calls for service, how many were initiated by the clients because I do know the clients, the only thing they know is 911 and how many were from somewhere else. If you know that number. Um I don't have that number quantified directly in front of me. I know that the um that the police and fire departments can uh respond to some of those questions as well as I'm sure the operator can. And I think one of the things that we talked about at the previous hearing is that a lot of the clients on site uh are operating uh with uh cell phones and they're communicating directly. Um we did in the staff presentation include the calls for service over a limited duration time. Um and so that was between Sorry. So, um the most recent, um staff review of calls for service between between December 1st of 2024 through February 28th of 2025, uh found a total of 47 calls for service. Um and then of those total calls, 22 were from Carol's residents. Uh 12 uh were

from Carol's staff. Uh five were from Grossmont Hospital, one from adult protective services, one from uh social services, and one uh identified as a mental health clinician. Thank you. Sure. And Mr. Chairman, if I may, I apologize, but I do have uh staff requesting if we could take just a quick uh five minute uh break uh prior to opening the public hearing. All right, let's take a fivem minute break. Thank you. Thank you.

I think we're going to open it to a public uh comment, I believe. Yeah. So, let's uh open it up for a public comment. Do you have a speaker card, Laura? Yes, we have one speaker card. Donald Meyers. I remember you, Mr. Myers. Yeah. Thank you. You're the owner. Me- ES RS. Okay. Uh, well, I'm here. Well, I thought this was over because you guys sheld the amendments, but uh, it doesn't look that way. So, um, I don't really know what to say except for the fact of what I don't know what you guys want, what they want me to do. and uh the fact that he's made these requests that we've already completed and done. Our police uh involvement has reduced. I just turned over a letter to him that that's my police log which states who called the police and who didn't. Uh according to my records, we are not abusing the system. I think my staff called 911 two times since February 1st. and the rest were by residence or the rest and uh for uh per team was the other ones. So um as far as the rest of the facility goes, I've put a perimeter fence in. The gate is closed at the end of work days so we can you know when when the staffs are gone uh and then open back up in the morning. Uh we've also have a phone calling tree where if in fact the calls come in, my staff are alerted and if nobody's there to answer the phone because they're busy doing something

else, that phone is um changed over to uh what you call it uh call forward to my it's call forwarded to my administrator manager's uh phones. So that's already taken place. Uh we have an agreement with MCRT. Uh we use a private ambulance uh for transports, but you'll see in a case of uh a violent scenario uh we they will not do anything. If the person is not wanting to go to the hospital and he refuses, we have to go with another means. So, if it's violence and he's uh attempting suicide or trying to hurt somebody else, he's moved out. Uh you know, we have to call the police department. Um they we are not having ongoing issues with unauthorized people anymore. We've had one person in the last couple months that has violated his restraining order by coming in trying to sell drugs to our people. and uh just being vagrant and staying there and hanging out. We've removed him. In fact, one of my resident residents knocked him out because the police department wouldn't uh do anything about it. So, and then he was subsequently arrested for assault. But, um it's just, you know, so anyway, and then the improvements that he's talked about were, you know, like I said, the metal fence, rod iron around the front of the property. We've eliminated the uh uh setback from the sidewalk to deter people from sleeping there. Um and we've got the gates up. We close them at night. Um we have we removed the sign because everybody says that we attract

homeless people. We removed our sign that said Carol's Community Care because they were uh you know synonymous with a community center supposedly. So people were thinking that they could come there and get a free shower, free meals, hang out, sleep, do whatever they wanted to do. So we removed our signs. We've done everything there. Um I received a grant from the government uh to do remodels. So, we've we've uh basically let's see, we put in new trees, shrubs, plants along the fence line, the yards. Uh we've removed the dead trees, the dead plants. The parking lots were completely redone, resurfaced, uh striped. The debris was moved from the yard, cleaned up, and and is in the yard is being replanted. Uh all the buildings have been upgraded. There's been we put in new roofs to prevent the leaks and the mold. That one complaint that was uh substantiated by the state that we had mold in the attic of one of the buildings. We removed it all. We fixed it. We put in a new roof, new new uh sidings. The exterior of the bu building has been patched and painted. So, it looks really nice now. Uh the picture you saw up there is not what it looks like now. Installed new doors. We put new doors, new windows, the whole entire place. We installed exterior lighting like we said we were going to do to light up the place so that we can get rid of the homeless people, which we've done. In fact, it's a little too much for me, but it's pretty lit up. Uh the second story buildings got new railings uh very heavy duty railings so they're above and beyond code which uh you know has been taking place in the stairwells the whole nine yards. We put security cameras in the back of the building and

around the perimeter to make sure that we are because we are being uh shot at by the neighbors by uh some neighbors in the parking lot behind us on the other side of our alley are shooting try are shooting our windows out that we just put in and the police won't do anything about that. They said it's our problem. So, we we've, you know, we put up cameras to see if we can visually find out who's doing it. And uh so, and we've upgraded our electrical. We've I hired more staff. I've brought in uh more management people to answer phones. The uh Mr. Myers, your your time is out. How much time do you need? How much more time do you need? Just a couple minutes. I don't not even that. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm pretty much I mean I I've got gave you the facility log book. Uh I've addressed the issues with uh um every one of those. You can see where they're not we're not anywhere near what they said we were in the past. So, you know, what we've done is is pretty remarkable for what we've got. We've evicted numerous peoples to get rid of uh um any of the situations. I think I had it written down here that I can't even find it. I'm trying I'm trying to rush now. Sorry. Uh well, I don't know. I had it all figured out. But anyway, I think it's uh most of the people that have caused us problems have been removed, evicted. We've we've got somewhere over 40ome people that we've evicted in the last since uh the beginning of 24. This year alone, it's been I think we've gotten rid of the neighbors that weren't here 17 uh complaints. Uh he annoyed me, but uh anyway, so we

we've gotten rid of all that. Um, so I mean we've done a remarkable turnaround on any of the abuse for any of the systems whatsoever. Uh, but we're still getting harassed and threatened on a constant basis. And they're not work. Nobody's working with us. We've done what we can do. And I I don't really know what else I can do to keep this going because I mean I've been there for 50 years and we've taken care of the homeless and mental mentally ill people and you know it's like we fit in that community. We are the community in that area. So, you know, this is this has just kind of gotten a little out of control and out of hand, and I don't understand really what's the goal for this continued bashing of my credibility and my facility of not fitting into the public. I really don't understand. Yeah. Well, Mr. Myers, it looks like uh you've done quite a bit. We have. To improve the premises. We have. I've spent over a million some odd dollars just in renovations alone. Right. Well, you need to be commended for that. So obviously you've read all the conditions of approval and uh you agree with them, correct? Yes. Oh, okay. Okay. So I I think that uh everything is working out pretty well from what you say, you know. Right. I agree. I mean I have 100%. I have the backing of the state, the county, you know, and everybody. And we've done everything we can to cut everything down. Right. Right. We're not we're calling uh what was that? Well, we have to licensing. Yeah, we have to follow the regulations. We're doing what we can do and and it's just, you know, this this is uh it's gotten I don't know this is it's getting I mean I've been hassled with this conditional use permit for, you know, I mean since 1986. Yeah. You know, and and it's like I've been told I can't rebuild, I can't do this, I can't do that because it violates the conditional use permit.

Well, I think I think you're needed in the community. Your facilities needed in the community. I agree. Yeah. very good. You know, I mean, we we have, you know, we I and then to address the two letters of complaints, I read them. I think I wrote a letter back to to Noah this morning regarding the one of the complaints, which is pretty much both of them. And the people that they're saying are are our clients uh that are causing the disruption in the neighborhood are not my clients. We're calling the police department on those same various people for vagrancies, yelling, screaming, and everything else. They're not mine. I can vouch for it. I took my I We have a picture of one of them. Okay. Let me ask if uh the planning commissioner has any questions. Do you have any questions? Any of you? Commissioner Edison, I don't see anything for revion here. Am I Am I misreading this? Yeah. So that's so what we're trying to do tonight. So uh at the last hearing uh the planning commission had the ability to uh initiate a revocation of the permit or to amend the permit. Right? So at this time what we're asking the planning commission to do is just to amend the permit so that there is more uh rigid conditions of approval where we can hold uh the operator accountable. So, one of the things that I heard in the testimony here in the last couple minutes was that we put in the gate and that the gate is open and then we close it at night. So, one of the things that that we've asked uh over 2024 multiple times is for them to keep the gate closed and locked at all times and to implement uh a security protocol or guest access. So, it's gated because one of the issues that were were experienced in the past was that people that had been evicted had come back onto the property and then had to be removed. So that's one of those things that we think is a common sense measure where that if they can uh gate the entire

facility, have it be secured and not allow guest access without someone calling the manager to let them in. So that's one of the things that we have in those conditions of approval that's contrary to to what the speaker has said. Okay. Did you hear that? The people that are coming back to the facility are homeless people that we don't want there. That's why the gates were put up and that's what it is. We, like I said, we eliminated the setback so they can't camp in front of our our property anymore. If you look at the police reports, we're not calling the police department for vagrancies anymore. We're not calling for trespassing anymore. I have one person that keeps coming back and we keep throwing him out and he has a restraining order against him. Well, Mr. Alvi, what he said is he wants the the gate to be to be locked. He I cannot lock that gate 24/7 because these people have a right to come and go as they please. They have they they are not competent enough to have a key to open and close. I think Mr. Alvi has a response to that. Mr. Alvie, yeah, you have a response to that. I did. I did meet with uh Department of Social Services and the county of San Diego and they said that there's no objections to a secured facility. So that can be required by the planning commission. So what you're saying is, if I can interject, the gates shut. When someone's leaving, gate opens up. They walk out. when they want to come back in, they punch a little a code or or whatever. Yep. A key or a fob or any other type of secured access. Okay, that's what we're asking. Like a keypad or something. So, did you hear that? The code of the code of regulations states and the fire department stated this to me, too. I had the nursing home on Mollis. I used to operate that one. I put in a a locked door. They came out and told me, "These people are mentally ill. They're incapacitated. They cannot remember a code. They cannot handle a key. So basically what it is is that if

if in fact I put a door or a gate with a code on it, I have to post the code above the gate code so they know what it is at all times. So they can come and go and get out of the building if they need be. Well, let me ask uh Mr. Alvi again. Mr. You heard what uh Mr. Meyer said. So you spoke with the uh county. Yes. With the with the state licensing. Um so they it would be required uh in the conditions that requires approval from the fire department. So uh we do have the fire department here tonight. They can speak to that, but they would have to provide um like a Noxbox access that allows emergency access. Um obviously it's more inconvenient for the operator to to have to put in a procedure for a manager to let people in if they lose their key. Uh but the um state made it clear that that is not uh something uh that u or that is something that we can require. Explain to us what is a box? Uh a box is just a method for the fire department to gain access. So like on a commercial property if the site is secured um the fire department can gain access when it's locked uh after hours when they're closed. Okay. And also the fire department is here to address that question as well. Uh any any other questions? And then as far as all the other you do have a phone tree now because I'm looking at ABCD. You're saying that you do have a phone tree. You're saying that um you you well they're asking for a contract with uh transportation and uh provide telephone intercom connection. You're saying that you do have that? Yes. And then you do have the secured per remember. Yes. So, I think it comes down to that door. Comes down to putting a lock on a door. You know, I mean, I can I have a a big swinging gate that we can we padlock. We close it at night. We have a small gate so they can go in and out there. We're

not having a homeless issue. The the issue with the gate originally was to keep the homeless people out and keep the vagrancy out. We're not having that problem anymore. We're taking care of it on ourselves. We're not calling the police department for trespassers anymore. I think that a padlock won't work. It's something other than a padlock. Something that uh can be accessed to open and closed. Um Commissioner Circle, you have a frown in your face. Yes. Um I think the the council is or the council the commission is talking at cross purposes. The issue is not so much fire access as the residents access. And having worked with this population for a mere nine months, you can't give them a key. You can't give them a code. They forget the code, misremember the code, give the key to somebody else, give the fob to somebody else. I It's It's not a question of how can we secure it to let them back in. It's more of an issue of um uh for example set what used to be set free these county transitional living center they have a gate they have a security guard at the gate because otherwise the people who are allowed on can't get in and the people who aren't allowed on can get in. So, uh, to his point, unless he staffs the gate at all hours or whenever the residents are allowed to come and go, it can't be locked. But what I'm hearing from him is that the issues that they were having before have been solved by the gate that is. So, Mr. Mr. Chairman, if I may interject, um you know, what we're asking for is we're not prescribing a

specific method method for the lock. Um so it it could be an intercom system. It could be like a um like a ring camera where, you know, like a ring camera if you come and drop off a package, you know, they can open the door sometimes to let someone come in. Uh there's any types of methods that we could support in order to uh have people access the property. Um you know, it could be, like I said, a little video interface there. Uh but all we're asking is for the facility to be secured in that fashion. And I do I would also um just quickly reference that maybe after uh we finish with the the testimony from the speaker if we could have maybe the police department and fire department come down and speak to their experiences. Um I think what we're trying to do again as uh as the chair said is that uh you know this is an important facility that's providing a service but we also want to balance that with the um the quality of life in the neighborhood and making sure that it's working in a compatible fashion with the neighborhood. So we think it's a pretty common sense measure to have the facility locked and secured and the other measures that we've integrated um into the conditional use permit. So, um, so what we're trying to do is, uh, give the applicant the opportunity to make those enhancements and then over the next 90 days, if we go out to the facility and we see that the gates open, uh, if we, um, if the police department is responding to a call on a Sunday night at 2 a.m. and they enter the facility and an on-site manager is not there, we'll be documenting that. And if there's continue to be these issues uh, that that the police department and fire department are experiencing, uh, we'll bring that back and then the commission could consider revocation at that point. But we want to give the applicant the opportunity to better manage and operate the facility within the confines of what's required by uh both the state and the county and to improve that operation and then uh we can move forward and see how it works. Okay. Commissioner Pollock Rude. Just a question regarding the gate. This gate that you want locked. Is it the

gate in the front or is there a gate maybe that enters the property itself that that they need locked or is it both that you you need locked? I'm just so we're asking them to secure the entirety of the facility so no guests can access the facility without contacting the manager. There's a there's a there's a rolling gate there's a rolling gate for uh vehicles that can drive in and there's also a um a person gate for um for pedestrian access. So, because I know a lot of the buildings have where on the inside you can get out without having a key and and then um that would be the case here as well. And and and then but to come back in you would need a code or something or the facial ID or something where they ring a bell and they could just buzz a bin or whatever. You don't have to be there staffed and you won't have to give them a key of something. But I don't know about the rolling gate how that I mean that's a cost for them. That would be ultimately it would be the applicant can propose something. Uh the way the condition is written is that it needs to be reviewed by community care licensing uh and the state and that the um because the state asked uh to review the gate and then uh the fire department is also asking to review that for the emergency access purposes. So it would be re reviewed and approved by both of those prior to implementation. And we're open to any number of different configurations. Uh we're just looking to have it secured. So whichever uh works the best for the operator uh we would as long as it's secure. Okay. Any other question? My my question would be what's the purpose of me having to have this thing secured 24/7? Why do I have to lock this facility and lock these people in or out 247 please? I I don't understand what his the hangup is on this issue of locking it down. We are not. The people in the street are not Carol's Community Care. We're being condemned for acts of whatever going on

in the streets and they're not my people. I have pictures of the people that we're on the streets that they're calling about. A girl screaming and yelling. I know that girl screaming, yelling. I've called the police on her, too, multiple times. She's not one of my residents. There's a guy sleeping in a dumpster behind the apartment complex across the street. He's not my resident. Right. Well, they want to uh the city wants the property to be secured and those people that you just mentioned not to be able to come into your property. Not coming into my property. Right. We don't want them to come into your property. That's what I'm saying. Exactly. You know, I mean, unless I put a code on that gate that's 911, these people aren't going to remember it, right? So, that's the only number that Well, that's That's something that you can work out with the staff. My staff has to run out with with our staff right here. Okay. Well, they don't want to work with me. They just want to tell me to do something and that's it. They're not working with me. I haven't talked to this man since the before last meeting. Okay. But yet again, they send people out there to harass my builders and ask for permits that they know they've already issued and then giving them a hard time. This is what I get. Well, I'm finding, you know, our staff is pretty accommodating. They're accommodating because I don't even I don't know why he hasn't said he he's done nothing but harass me, hassle me, and and ask me to do things that he knows that can't be done. He's fixed on this gate situation. And the gate situation was to stop the homeless from entering. We're not having a homeless problem anymore because evidently they've moved the homeless off to another area. Okay? So to to lock these people in and and what what they're saying now is they're going to lock my people in and they're not allowed to walk out of the property when they're they are free to come and go like any other human citizen in this in this area. This is not a locked facility.

Well, what what I just heard is that usually people from the inside there's a handle that just turn and open the gate. There is not a lock only to get in. And so when they come back in they can reach through the gate, open it up and walk in. No, either an intercom system or a facial system or a video system of some sort. And how much money do you think I'm making from these people to to hire another person to stand out there 24/7 just to open and close a door? I don't make money like that. Yeah, we we collect social security benefits for disability people. Thousands of dollars a month. I think there's uh apps now that on the phone that when somebody comes in the front door the the phone will ring and said there's somebody at the front door and then you can do something about it. It's called the Ring camera and other cameras as well that they haven't. Oh, Mr. Chairman. There's all kinds of things. Mr. Chairman, if if you could any comments from the audience if you could act them ask them to come and speak at the microphone and introduce themselves. Yes. Did you hear that? Okay. Speaker card. Okay. Any other questions? I think I would recommend at this point just to have that testimony that we talked about from the fire department and police department about their experiences. I think that would be beneficial. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Myers. Thank you. Maybe we could ask Lieutenant Thornton to come down to the microphone and just talk about some of those experiences with um some of the trespassing issues and uh lack of an on-site manager. Did I hear Lieutenant Thornton or Morton? Uh good evening. Thornton. T O R Norton T O N. Okay. Thank you. the Elcohone Police Department. Yes. Uh so some of the things that got brought up were our responses and our calls for service. Uh we uh the the operators say there are only two 911 calls over the previous uh six month or so period. We also get 91 uh calls outside of 911 and those are separate from MCRT. Uh that county resource does not get dispatched through us. We do contact them and work with them, but those don't get those don't create calls

for service for us because we have no response. So, for the calls for service that we do get, it's non-emergency calls and it's 911 calls. In the month of April, we had 11 to the facility. In the month of May, we had 10. To provide context, uh like I stated last time, that's on par with the total number of calls we received at 415 Fletcher Parkway, which is the mall. Only the interior businesses, not the exterior, not the big box stores, but the hundred or so businesses on the inside of the mall generate roughly the same amount of calls for service as this business on Emerald. Uh we don't have a specific way of tracking if staff is on site when we respond other than if our officers add notes to those calls. two of our sergeants, two different sergeants know uh that this has gone before the planning commission and they notified me of calls, one on May 15th, one on May 20th where we responded and we were unable to locate any staff at all and we needed them for both of those calls uh to help resolve the issue. I think that's the main crux of what we're uh hoping to accomplish with the amendment is to have staff on site 247 would be a huge mitigator in our overall response, our call service uh and our ability to function and provide services for the community when we're there. Additionally, I'd like to speak about the those calls for service specifically are marked as 523 Emerald at that specific address. It does not include calls on the street. Those are marked by a 100 block and will be marked as 500 emerald and would not be associated with this address. For uh the operator also stated that there were several calls involving transients coming onto the property and creating disturbances. In the previous audit we conducted which uh covered I believe April of 2024 to April of 2025. Of the over 100 calls that we responded to, there were six that involved transients. The other 94% were specific to the facility. Of the 21 over the last two months, none of them involved transients. They were all

specific to the facility and not the outside community. Any other questions that I can answer? And those were initiated by the clients or the staff. A combination. Uh we don't have a list of who's a client and who's a staff, but the 21 calls we had over April and May were all involved some way with the facility. So, one of your simple asks is you want direct contact which is in this the amendment is direct contact information for an on-site authority. Right. Correct. Uh regarding the phone tree that was set up uh both of those times we had no ability to contact anyone. We don't have any uh contact number for the business. We don't have any access to the phone tree that they have set up and there is no uh signage or anything that I know of anywhere in the facility to direct us on who to contact because both of those times we had no way of finding anybody from the business. Thank you. Any other question? Mr. Myers, allow us to question uh Lieutenant Thornton here. Uh we you can come back up, but let let Mr. Thornton answer the questions. Uh anyone else? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Um, chairman, maybe if we could also ask um the representative from the fire department, uh, Division Chief Nevin uh, to come up and speak to uh, the issues from the fire department's perspective. Okay. Hello, Chief. Hi. Good evening. Uh, Division Chief Nevin, it's Nein. Um, the fire department's view on it is slightly different. Um, our our main concern is just the high calls for service that we get out of there. It's um one of our highest call volumes that we have anywhere in the city and they tend to be very low acuity calls. Um what we the calls do almost universally come directly from the residents. Um and what we encounter is that when they tell

911 that when they call 911, they inform the dispatcher that they can't find staff or staff wouldn't help them. Our crews get there. They also occasionally report that staff won't get there uh won't help them. And then our last catch is that our dispatch center will almost automatically call back the facility if it's any sort of uh non-priority sounding call and about a third of the time um when I reviewed it, they're not getting an answer. Um so that tends to be our problem. I I understand the challenge of residents calling directly and that's that is difficult. I don't have an answer for that. Um we're on track to have about 140 medical calls this year um based on our first six months. Uh and that's that's a ratio that's higher than any of our nursing facilities that we deal with. It's a tremendous burden on the system. So those are our primary concerns. Okay. Commissioner Rose, what what are the typical medical calls that you're getting? There's a large variety there. Um uh Mr. Alvie referenced we we have a there was one patient that was consistently calling for cramps, leg pain, body pain. Uh there's medication issues. It's it's a lot of primary care and psychiatric maintenance. Um, and that's not to say there are not legitimate emergencies that happen there. We do go on seizures and those kind of calls. Also, would you say that someone that was on site 247 would probably lower those calls because they could address those issues? We would hope so. Yeah, that that would be our goal is just there would be someone to help filter filter out some of those issues uh before they get to the 911 system. Sure. Okay. Any other questions? Just very quick on the door on the what is the fire department's position on this locked door unlocked door? We've heard a whole bunch of different What is fire department? Unfortunately, I cannot speak to the particulars of the fire marshall and the fire prevention stance on it. Generally though at a commercial facility when we put in a lock door we install a key on it so that we have universal access. So sorry to not have a specific answer on that. And I can confirm that staff worked with the fire

marshall to confirm that is acceptable as a condition of approval. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh any uh other speakers? Uh Mr. Myers, you want to come up here again? I'd like to address the fact that he said something about calling on May 15th that did there was no tree. I got a personally got a phone call on my cell phone because they called me to ask me what to do. I turned around and called my administrator and told him to deal with it. It was dealt with and it was on a Saturday or Sunday. I don't remember exactly the date. It was the 15th. It was that call. So, there was a tree set up. It was answered because they personally called me. So, I got that phone call and I directed it to where it needed to go. So, the problem was taken care of. And so, and as far as the police department or his his actions of all these phone calls, like I said, that happened last year from April 2024 till current. Okay? My records that I gave you just now, as of you guys, we we talked on this what, April 1st. This is what we've done. We've changed everything. We've educated. We've hired more staff. I have I have uh staff members there 247. There's two at least a minimum of two if not three people all night and all day if well during the day there's more than that but at night there's you know at least a minimum of two people between the hours of 10 and 12 at midnight and the rest is there's three or more. So there is somebody there all the time. When the person calls from the uh a cell phone, uses a cell phone to call the police department, we are not recognized. We are not told anything at that point.

They are calling us telling us that we're getting a 911 call from John Doe. Can you check it out? We go check it out. If it's valid, then we, you know, there's nothing we can do except report it. But it's usually not valid and we shut it down. The phone call, I can't stop that that phone call. I don't know they're making it. So, I mean, the the government gave them a phone and they pay for it. So, I don't you know, and they gave them a phone number. 911, here you go. So, that's that's what they do. So, I'm, you know, unfortunately that's not there's, you know, those calls come in. Over 50% of his numbers over here, his numbers were resident calls in that time frame. You know, I just gave you what the time frame which the calls that we have logged our facility and half of those are resident calls again. So I you know we intercede and we you know tell them if it's valid or not. So I don't know I don't know what else I can do with that. Okay. You know so well thank thank you very much. I have a quick question. Yes, Commissioner Pollock Rude regarding this because I know there's been a lot of calls with the fire and police and you said that there's these the calls that you showed us. Have you had any conversations with them or have some sort of direct protocol of who they can contact? So if they are contacted, they can have direct contact to somebody staff member on site. Yes, we've talked to them. We're ed trying to educate them to use our private ambulance service that if they're willing to go to the police, go to the hospital and they're acceptable to go to the hospital, the M was I think it's MCRT, they'll come out and they'll assess them and take them if need be. But they have to be willing to go. So, and that's the whole thing. But have you had communications with the police and fire regarding the protocols that you have just so maybe there's more communication that is they they know the protocols. I mean he Mr. Thornton will just sit here and address the the protocols. We you know he says they work

with the MCRT. They work with those people. So that's but because I know he said that with the fire that they when they called and they couldn't get a hold of anybody on staff on site and that would be helpful. So I'm just But you're saying There's staff members there. I I have time sheets and records proof. I can prove my staff is there. Okay. So, I mean, there there are people there. Now, whether they're not they're busy working or dealing with something, I don't know. That's that's you know, I don't know where they're I mean, they can't find them. They don't they're not going to look for them either. You know, if somebody says they got cramps in their legs, I I have never that's not one of the calls. Most of the calls that have been called in the last two months, those people have been evicted. They've been kicked out of the facility and they don't they're not returning. Well, yeah, I understand. You have a difficult difficult clientele. So, it's not just a standard, you know, apartment complex. You have a very different dynamic there. So, I can understand. I have one client there that was uh he he was released. He was sent to the hospital for other reasons and but he was calling 911 constantly. He came the Grossmont Hospital dropped him on our doorstep in the middle of the night and didn't tell anybody he was back. He went to bed and then basically we turn around and he calls 911 I think six times within a two-day period before we and then we got him back out again. It took us that long to get him out of there again. You know, we can't just throw him on the street. I understand. So, I mean, he he it was and that's why he was evicted. He calls 911 con constantly. So we are scrutinizing the people that we take and we don't we are not taking people that have any history of calling, you know, or you know yelling yelling about 911. Any other questions? Uh Commissioner Circle, uh just a quick question. I know that at

the facility I work, we've got a Shadow Mountain security cell phone and one of the guards on duty is always carrying that cell phone. We have the cell phone number posted on the gate so anyone coming in can see here's the cell phone number for the person on site. Uh do you have something similar to that or is that something you might be able to do? because it sounds like everything else in the standards in the um conditions of approval you've already got covered, right? Well, I as far as the gate scenario goes, I don't I mean, I can put a phone or a beeper or whatever you do on a on a person's but if there's no internet or Wi-Fi service out there, how's that going to work? I don't know. I mean, there's got to be a bypass. I mean, and I and the guys, you know, we they're they monitor that gate 24/7 anyway. So, Mr. Chairman, if I if I could just interject, I I think, you know, really the answer to that question is if there's a 24-hour on-site manager and there's a phone number that's posted, that on-site manager can come to the gate. Okay. Okay. All right. Any other questions? We have nothing better to do than run out to the gate every five minutes. That's that's that's what I'm saying. it. Okay. Whatever. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Myers. All right. All right. I move to close public hearing. Second. Okay. Motion made by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Edison. Please vote. I'm missing one vote. Miss Pollockroot may I may not have opened it soon. There we go. Okay. Motion carries by unanimous vote. All right. Mr. Chairman, again

before deliberations, can I just clarify a few things? Uh I wanted to be abundantly clear that staff nor the police department or the fire department have never recommended any evictions. Um you know, this is a fair housing issue. Uh we do not uh look at the people that are living there. We're just looking at whether or not the facility is being operated in a compatible fashion with the surrounding properties and uses. We also never tell anyone that they can't call 911. We want the facility to utilize emergency services um as they see fit. We're just again looking for uh that proper on-site management. Uh and again, I think the issue um with the uh having 24-hour on-site staff and having a calling tree that that should address that issue. So, um, if the police department, uh, goes out to the site and there's no one there, they use the calling tree and no one answers, that's what we'll report back in 90 days, um, if there's continues to be issues. So, what I heard from the operator is that these issues are under control. And so, that's staff's hope is that they are under control and that we can report back in a positive fashion in 90 days. Uh but if the commission moves forward and adopts this resolution uh approving this request uh we have those as conditions of approval. We can report on their effectiveness and then we can move on from there. Very good. Thank you. All right. What say you? All right. Um so what I've heard from Mr. Myers is that he's already got all this locked down. I mean, the gate isn't locked, but that's not an issue because he's got staff monitoring. They've got the issues of transients under control. Um, the lighting, the landscaping. So, I think this is a slam dunk. Like, I agree. I appreciate this community and the service you are providing our community. These are people that nobody wants to work with, right? And this is awesome. So, I appreciate

your investment in your facility and in our community. Yeah. Thank you. Anyone else? No. Okay. Does anyone want to make want to make a motion? I will be happy to make the motion to move to adopt the next resolutions in order approving this proposed SQA exemption NCUP number 2025-000010 subject to conditions. A second. Okay. A motion made by Commissioner Ciro, second by Commissioner Pollock Rude. Please vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present and uh we'll see you in 90 days and hopefully there'll be good news. So again, Mr. Chairman, this item uh could be appealed uh to the city council. Uh so the 10-day appeal period would end on uh the 27th of June at 5:00 p.m. and then uh the continue or the uh review of the conditional use permit would be in approximately uh 90 days. Right. Thank you. So you you can appeal it within the next 10 days. I appeal what? I don't understand the decision we made here this evening. The decision that we made here this evening. You can appeal it. So Mr. Chairman, if if I may, um the uh since this is the last uh public hearing item, if the applicant would like to wait as we finish up business, I'd be happy to speak with them after the hearing. Okay, Mr. Elvy will speak with you after the hearing. Okay, let's see here. Okay. Are there any other consideration items to consider? No, no additional items from staff. Staff communication? No, nothing. Okay. Uh, commissioner reports, I had two questions, but it's late. Okay. Um, in the future, I'd love

to hear how the crematorium is doing. I haven't seen anything over there. And then uh we briefly discussed the naughty idea um as a a cultural resource and maybe staff could look into what it would take to add that to our zoning code. Yes. Cool. Going to be called the naughty code. Okay. Very good. All right. I uh adjourn this meeting to uh July 1st, 2025 at 700 p.m. I second that mean motion. Motion made by Commissioner Sautille, second by Commissioner Circle. Please vote. Motion carries by unanimous vote of members present. They're too busy talking. Everything.