Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome everybody to the November 12th, 2025 city of Edina Planning Commission meeting. As I say every time, we appreciate your curiosity, your participation, and your feedback specifically regarding the ways in which we'd like to use land in the the city and the change that's around that. So, we have kind of a busy agenda tonight. We have a couple public hearings and then we have a sketch plan review. Just want to clarify some things for some people too. Uh as we get through the the meeting, we have a community comment period and that's your chance to testify about a matter not on tonight's agenda and the two public hearings. You will have a chance to testify during those. As for the sketch plan review, that is simply if you're here to attend for that, that is simply an opportunity um if you're tuning in or here in person uh forformational participation. So, it's it's a chance for us as a commission to provide non-binding feedback to the applicant. It's your chance as an audience to just simply tune in and get information on that. There won't be a a a point to participate and share testimony regarding that. That would come when it's an official public hearing later. Uh in the meantime, there will be an opportunity to continue to share comments on better together.org, which is the kind of catchall for all city participation related to anything land use. So, if you're not familiar with that, head to ww. better together.org and [snorts] participate that way. Uh it's our commitment to you that any and all feedback that we receive for the public hearings uh is considered before

we make a recommendation to either approve or deny those tonight. And with that, we'll I'll just give you a rundown of the agenda. We'll call this to order, then do a roll call, approve tonight's agenda, the prior meeting minutes, and then it's that community comment period, which I'll get into. And then we have two public hearings followed by the one sketch plan review. And then it is chair and member comments, staff comments, and adjournment. Without further ado, call the meeting to order and then roll call. Commissioner Nelson, here. Commissioner Alky here. Commissioner Pidia here. Commissioner Smith here. Commissioner Jaw here. Commissioner Just,

Commissioner Day here. Commissioner Bournestein here. Commissioner Felt here. Commissioner Hanaman here. Chair Bennett here. Next we have the approval of tonight's meeting agenda. Move. Approval of the agenda. Second. All those in favor say I. I. So moved. Next we have the approval of the prior meeting minutes from October 29th. If there aren't any proposed changes, I'd welcome a motion also. Motion to approve meeting minutes. Second. All those in favor say I. I. [clears throat]

So moved. All right. Next we have the community comment. So, similar to a public hearing, uh this is your chance to testify about a matter not on tonight's agenda. And we're doing things a little differently um out of privacy. We have a new process in place that the city council has done. So, we're following suit. We have this speaker registration card, right? So, typically if you come before us and speak, we ask you to state your name and address, but so that you're not broadcasting your address out to the public out of privacy, I guess, considerations, we ask if you plan to speak to just head over and fill out this card. It has your name and address that won't be shared with anyone. It's just kept in private records just to make sure that you're a resident. So, if you're planning to speak for either the community comment or either public hearing tonight at any point, you can come over there and just fill out this card. And if you don't want to fill out this card and you're still willing to share your name and address, please do so. So, that's how it kicks off for community comment. If you have anything that you'd like to share that's not on tonight's agenda, you can come up to either podium and you have three minutes to do so. When the light turns green, go. When it turns red, I'll ask you to wrap it up. And this is only for people who are here in person. The public hearing similar, but that we allow people to tune in and participate remotely. Is anyone here for community comment? All right. So, we will move on from community comment. And now we're on to our public hearing. So again, if you plan to testify about either of these, you can come up to the side and fill out the card, or if you're okay just stating your name and address, you can when we

get to the public hearing portion. But so so you know what to expect for a public hearing process. There's a few steps. So one, it begins with someone wanting to do something with their land that doesn't quite conform to our city code. they put in for a request to essentially vary from the code. Uh, city staff does a bunch of research, looks at the code, puts together a staff report for us based on facts and findings. They collaborate with other departments and sometimes commissions and then they put that together into the form of a presentation tonight that you'll see will see. And then it's our chance for a back and forth with staff for questions. We also open it to the applicant to provide their own presentation and we have a similar exchange. After that point, we'll open it to a public hearing where it's your chance to testify for up to three minutes. After we close the public hearing, we bring it back to the commission to deliberate and make a recommendation for approval or denial of the request. As I said, we have two of them tonight. And the first one is a variance at 521360th Street West and Addison Lewis will present. Thank you.

Yeah. Good evening, chair, commissioners. Uh this is a request for a 10.1 ft setback variance from the required 50ft water body setback at 521360th Street West. So here's a look at the property in the Birchest neighborhood uh just on the north side of Birchest Pond. Um, the property contains a one-story home with a walkout basement. The home was built in 1956. Uh, the property is about 14,300 ft in area. Uh, however, uh, about 5,444 ft is occupied by water. Uh, which significantly limits the buildable area uh, on this property. Um, so the, as I mentioned, it's a one-story home with a walkout basement. So on the existing lower level uh there is a sun room that uh comes out from the back of the house. The applicants um I should note here too that this sun room uh is non-conforming with respect to the required 50oot setback from the water body. It's at 39.9 ft uh setback. Currently the applicant's proposing to replace that existing lower level space uh and also expand it by about 2.6 ft uh to the east. they would maintain that existing 39.9 uh foot setback. Uh and then they would like to also build living space directly above that. So uh to replace and expand the lower level is actually allowed under the code. It's that addition to that additional story above uh for the main level that triggers the need for the variance. Um so here's just a look at some of their elevation drawings. So this is from the south. So looking like from the water and then a west elevation and east elevation. Um so it comes out about 16 ft from uh from the edge of the house and then just a floor plan here showing the dimensions. Uh and then a rendering here just to

kind of give you some sense of the scale uh with the adjacent properties. So Minnesota statute requires that uh this criteria here be met in order for the city to issue a variance. Uh I've laid out staff's findings with respect to this criteria in the report. So I won't go over all of it. Uh but just to kind of briefly summarize what really kind of separates or makes this property unique. Um as I mentioned about a third of the property is occupied by water. And so with that 50ft setback from the edge of the water body um that you know encroaches about 97 ft from the rear of the property which is really not a condition that's uh present on most of these other properties. Um it is present on the property or similar conditions exist on the property next door. However, that property is also non-conforming with respect to the setback from the water body. That one is about 43 feet set back. Um, and then you can see kind of as we move either east or west, um, that shoreline doesn't quite protrude as as far into those properties. On the south side of the pond, these lots are quite a bit deeper. These are about 240 to 250 ft in depth and there's about 75 ft from the edge of the shoreline to the home. Uh, whereas on the subject property, it's only about uh 55 ft uh from the edge of the shoreline. Um there are two other properties here that have received similar variances um in the early 2000s. Um so this one here received a variance to build a second story over existing living space and meet uh the same setback. And then this property here received a similar variance to expand a deck uh but meeting the same setback but they were um you know going expanding horizontally but but meeting the existing setback there. So, kind of similar requests that have also received variance variance approval uh recent in the past.

Uh so, tonight staff is recommending a motion to approve a 10.1 ft setback variance from a water body at 521360th Street West subject to the findings and conditions in the staff report. Uh we did receive one comment uh on better together that was in support of the request. Um so, with that, be happy to take any questions you have. Thank you. And just to keep things streamlined, we'll before we do some questions answers, we'll open it to the applicant if they happen to be here if they'd like to provide their own presentation or simply do the same stand for questions. Just introduce yourself. Yeah.

Hi, good evening. I'm Kimberly. and the applicant on behalf of the homeowners uh my parents uh who my dad is here today who are are moving to this property um for the next chapter of their life to enjoy primarily onele living coming from a multi-level home. Um and so part of this uh addition of the on the main floor is to enhance the living space of a 75year-old home to be more accommodating to modern living. Um, so it it's going to help them. But being a part of this neighborhood, um, I happen to live next door uh, in one of the properties. Um, we are really happy to have be rehabilitating an original Rambler. um and enhancing it for once they're done with it, the next family or young couple or someone starting out to be able to uh enjoy an original home with um a little bit more modernized living space. So that's the benefit. I think Addison has done a great job to uh describe the technical aspects of it. Um I want to thank you for your consider consideration of our application and thank you for presenting it.

All right. Any questions for either party from the commission? Couple this way. Start with you, Quincy. Yeah, thank you. Um I'm just curious on the platting that you know so much of the plat actually is in the water body, like almost 40% of it. Um if you have any kind of uh thoughts on why that would be why that would be the case. Why would the platting extend so far into the water body? And um what would be the homeowner's responsibility of uh their plat being so far into the water? Do they have any kind of responsibilities to the water body or or not?

Yeah. So the I believe the plat also was was platted in the 50s. Um, and it wasn't until 1992 that the 50 foot setback from the water body came into place. Prior to that, it was only 25 ft. Um, so I think if it had been 50 ft at the time, uh, these probably would have been platted a bit differently. I think this street probably wouldn't have come in so close to the water body. Um, because as you kind of saw from this, I mean, this setback comes back about 97 feet from the back of the property and then they've got a 30 foot required front yard setback. So, it's really just the space between these kind of bold dashed lines. Uh, that's kind of the buildable area. And does the homeowner have any responsibility of the water body itself, like any maintenance or anything like that, or is it just completely something that they just can't touch? They can't um do any work in there.

Um, I guess that I don't know. Oh,

yeah, I I could take that. The they don't have any responsibility in the lake. It's not uncommon back in the 30s, 40s to plat into lakes on some plats in some cities. There's individual lots planted in platted in the middle of lakes. Real estate scam kind of thing. Um, but they own to the ordinary high water level of this water body. So, they don't have ownership in the lake. It's just to that ordinary high water mark, that dashed line. Uh, nope. It's to a little bit to the south there. It's labeled there the ordinary high water mark. That's that's actually their property line. Thank you. So, am I understanding correctly that you want to build up on the first floor and you want to add 42 square ft to the footprint that was below?

Correct. Um, so would you be able to get the sun room that you wanted if you didn't get the without the 42 extra square feet?

Um, yes. Essentially, um it's really about um the ease of build buildability of 16 foot uh is is equal kind of pieces of um building material uh plywood, that kind of thing. We just kind of measured it out. And then we also have there's a window on the back of the house and we just wanted to get the same window and it just kind of nicely framed it out. and that um that piece is not to do that piece of it. We un we understood that that we we could do that. It's really on the low the lower level that is not a variance um to do that additional 42 feet. So really we're just squaring it off on for the main level. Okay.

Um that's the intent. Okay. Thanks, Addison. Could you explain that additional 200 square ft rule about not having to um ask for variance for additional square footage? Yep. So they can expand up to as long as it's at, you know, the same they're maintaining that same existing setback, they can expand, you know, horizontally or parallel to that setback up to 200 square feet or the square footage of the ex existing encroachment, which is about 121 square feet today that the the sun room encroaches.

And anyone can do that with a kind of non-existing Yep. for an existing non-conforming structure. Yep. They can add a little bit to it if they need to. Correct. Okay. On the same level. Okay. By right. By right. By right. I've done that. It's just going above. It's it's going to that next story that is not allowed by right under the code and triggers the variance.

And can I ask do the walls of the sun, this upper floor, do they align with walls inside? um on the interior, not not necessarily the the footprint on the interior for the main floor. Um it while it connects with the interior of the home, it's it's really just there there because it's on the existing structure.

Okay, that's fine. Thank you. This is just a [clears throat] general question for my own knowledge, but looking through the engineering memo, um there was a note about confirming with the NM Creek Wershed District if a wershed permit was required. I was just wondering what specifically the Nine Mile Creek wershed district would be looking at and what would determine whether a permit is required in this situation or not.

Yeah, that that is pretty standard that our engineering department will require for any kind of an addition. they have to confirm with the wershed district if they need a permit for um erosion control or storm water management I believe. Um so I I don't know exactly what the threshold it's based on the amount of fill or grading uh or land disturbance. Um so that's just like a standard for for any building permit. Even if the variance wasn't required, we need verification from the watershed district that you got a permit from them or they're saying one wasn't required.

Okay. Thanks. Madison, when we um change setbacks, uh like we did here in 1992 for whatever reason, the water table or FEMA or whomever drove that decision. Do we notify homeowners that are affected that? This was in 1992. I So, you weren't here.

I don't know if they if that was done back then. Um that was driven by the DNR, so it was actually a statewide thing. um different water bodies are impacted differently. Um like like larger recreational lakes have like an even greater setback. Um but it was a statewide process. Um so I think a lot of people that live on on a lake probably heard about it, but I don't know specifically what the city did at that time because I didn't we just look at some new adjustments from FEMA maps for flood planes? Like just wondering, do homeowners ever have the opportunity to address the possible changes to their variant circumstance at the time those decisions are made

for the city to have amended the code. There would have been a public hearing and so people could have come and and spoken about kind of how it was going to impact their property and the city council could take that into into consideration. However, this I think was a mandate by the DNR. You know, I'm sure the DNR probably did some outreach and, you know, a lot of talking to people and figuring out how this was going to impact especially um already developed areas and and knew that it was going to make a lot of these properties non-conforming. Yeah. Um, is there a picture of the existing sun room at the back?

I don't have a picture of it existing. Does it have the existing sun room? Does it have footings?

Yeah. [snorts] For questions, everyone. All right. Thank you. Thank you both. And as I mentioned, this is a public hearing. So, anyone who is here that would like to testify can. and those who might be tuning in remotely that would like to testify also can. And since there's a lag between what we're saying and what people see online, we're going to kind of go through that process right now to allow someone to jump in the queue to speak and then while we wait for that, we'll open the floor here to those who might want to speak about this. So, if you're tuning in remotely and like to participate, please call the following number 3125358110. Enter access code 2630 900 6965. Enter password 5454 and then press star three on your keypad to get in the queue to speak. And while we wait for you to do that, we'll open the floor to those who might be here that would like to testify. Same process as a community comment. You can state your full name and address on air or you can fill out the card. Uh come up to either podium. When the light turns green, you got three minutes. When it turns red, we'll ask you to wrap up your comments. Is there anyone here that would like to speak in person about this? All right. See no one rushing to the stage. Uh, turn it to you, I guess. How do people fill out a card when they're online?

Maybe we got to figure that one out, too. Yeah. If you could just come into city hall and then just fill this out and then go back home and that'd be great. Well, we'll have to figure that out. We're trying new things based on feedback from you guys, so trying to respect privacy and other concerns. Do we have anyone that is in the queue online that'd like to speak? We do not. So, I would recommend waiting maybe another 30 seconds.

Okay. Nobody has joined the queue to speak, so I believe it's safe to proceed. I welcome a motion to close it. Motion to close public hearing. Second.

All those in favor say I. I. I. I so move public hearings closed. All right. Take it back to the planning commission to deliberate on this and put together a recommendation for approval or denial. Any discussion or motions? I would uh move for approval of the uh variance uh 2515 at 5213 West uh 60th Street West. Second. Any further discussion or amendments? Okay. All those in favor say I. I.

Opposed? Nothing. Motion carries unanimous unanimously. Good luck on your project. Thank you. All right, public hearing one is done with success. Good job, everyone. Thank you. Next, we're on to the second public hearing, which is a side street setback variance at 5801 Fairfax Avenue. And we have Emily to present on that. Same process as before.

Um, thank you, chair, members of the planning commission. Tonight, the request is for a 4 foot side street setback variance at 5801 or 510 5801, excuse the um typo there, but 5801 Fairfax Avenue is approximately 6,500 square f feet and is located at the southeast corner of Fairfax Avenue and 58th Street West. The existing structure is a singlestory structure that was built in 1956. The property is zoned and guided as single family residential. The existing primary structure does not meet the required 15t side street setback and is 11 ft from the side street side street setback or the north property line. The applicant is proposing an attached garage addition and is requesting a 4ft side street setback variance to allow a second floor addition above the existing first floor and garage edition space. The existing 11oot setback condition would remain with the exception of the side street setback. The property does meet all other zoning requirements of the code. I will point out that there was a typo in the staff report and the building coverage is proposed at 25.5% and not 35.5 as initially written in the staff report not requesting a variance and that was in the compliance table. So just wanted to clarify that. Um here are the proposed elevations and proposed floor plans with the remodel and addition space. And here are the renderings in context with the neighborhood. So the top is um in context along Fairfax Avenue and the bottom is in context along 58th Street West. Um as the commission knows, there are certain state statutes and adant ordinance requirements that require certain conditions be met to grant a variance. Staff believes that in this instance, those requirements are met. The proposed use is permitted in the zoning district and complies with the zoning standards with the exception of the non-conforming side street setback and the proposed second floor will not increase any non-conformity.

The addition is reasonable due to the existing non-conforming setback and the home will be remodeled and modified within the existing or required setbacks. The non-conforming setback was allowed to be built in its current position on the lot when it was constructed in 1958 and is not a situation that was created by the current property owner. And staff believes that granting a side street setback variance to continue a non-conforming setback on the second floor will not alter the character of the neighborhood. And with that, staff recommends approval of the 4ft setback variance to allow an 11 foot side street setback for property at 5801 Fairfax Avenue based on the findings and conditions that are listed in the staff report. And with that, I can answer any questions as well as the property owners who are also here tonight.

Thank you, Emily. Uh, same as before, I guess we before we have question answer, open it up to the applicant if they would like to provide a presentation or simply just stand for questions. Just introduce yourself. Thank you.

Hi. Uh, my name is Jared McCovak and I am the property owner along with my wife Sammy. And basically everything that you said is is exactly what we would say in our presentation of just requesting that second story variance of the 4T to meet the current 11T setback. And I think one of the unique things that I would also note on this lot is that the lot line is actually 17 ft off of where the curb is. So therefore, the house is actually an additional 27 ft from the the curb itself. Um and I think that's probably all that I would add. Great. Thank you. Uh any questions for the applicant or staff?

Just real quickly, it was mentioned extensive remodeling, but I think in the report somewhere it read read to be a basically just rebuilding on the existing foundation. Is that is it a remodel or is it I think that was on the surveyor's note but it was clarified that with the builder that the existing at least 50% of the existing first floor will remain and has to remain to be considered a remodel.

Good question and thank you staff for the correction noted with the staff report. That's good to hear. Okay, no further questions. Thank you for your time. And then like before, this is a public hearing, so same process as we noted. If someone just tuned in for the first time and you'd like to participate, give you the same instructions as before, please call 312. Oh, we got on the screen. 5358110. Enter access code 2630900 6965. Password is 5454. enter that and then press star three on your keypad to get in the queue to speak. While we wait, we'll turn it to the room. Is anyone here that would like if anyone is here that would like to testify about this matter, please come up, state your full name and address, or you can go to the card to write your full name and address. And you got three minutes to speak. Anyone here for this public hearing? All right, seeing none, guess we'll turn it to the queue. Do we have anyone in the queue that'd like to speak?

We do not. So, I recommend waiting one minute. I'm going to Let's do 30 seconds. It's been Yeah, it's been 30 already. All right. Nobody has joined the queue to speak, so I believe it's safe to proceed. Welcome a motion to close a public hearing. To close the public hearing. [snorts] Second. All those in favor say I. I.

I.

So moved. Public hearing is closed. Thank you again for staff and the applicant for being here. uh turn it over to the planning commission to deliberate on this one. Any welcome any discussion or a motion rebuilding on the same footprint. There's nothing nothing major here. Um so I would motion to approve the 4ft side street setback variance at 5801 Fairfax Avenue subject to the findings and conditions listed in the staff report. Any further discussion or amendments? Sure.

Um I have no problem uh and and we'll vote in favor of this. I just um want to point out that we have maybe not always treated the standard of um existing conditions uh the same. And so I um I think this is a reasonable request, but I'm putting that out for um my fellow commissioners to think about that sometimes we say, "Oh, um this existed in the house when you bought it, so need to work through it and uh that cost prohibiting uh factors don't play in here. If I'm understanding correctly, the garage and the space above it are new and being added. So I just want to just highlight that so that we think about being uniform in how we look at these variances.

Any further discussion or amendment? Sure. I also appreciate, you know, it it does add the garage to the house, but it takes down the garage which is closer to one of the sideyards, so it provides for more space between Absolutely. the two houses. So, I think it's well done. All right. I guess uh if there's no further amendments or discussion, put it to vote. All those in favor say I. I. I.

Opposed. All right. Motion carries unanimously. Good luck on your project. Thank you for coming. As noted, this, you know, both public hearings featured uh proposals that were making the most out of what they had and reusing things instead of tearing houses down and rebuilding, which is good to see. So, thank you everyone. All right, we're moving on now from our public hearings to reports and recommendations, and we have one tonight, and that's a sketch plan review for 5780 Lincoln Drive for a quick trip. So, a little different than the public hearings, a sketch plan, similar process. Um, Edina isn't unique in this, but it's something we added what, 15 years ago to the process or longer. And that gives us as a community a chance to provide non-binding feedback and see proposals before their formal proposals to try to either get it on the right track, you know, provide feedback so that when it comes in for a formal proposal, uh let's just say the the details of the project are a little more palatable to the city or the community or more in line with the comprehensive plan or small area plan, etc. And so tonight we have Director Teague presenting on this and then we'll have the applicant and then it'll just be an exchange back and forth between the commission and the applicant and staff. And again, just non-binding feedback for residents. No chance to testify tonight about this, but anformational chance to learn about the project and then share your feedback later. All right. And with that, Carrie, take it away.

All right. Thank you, chair, members of the commission. So, this property is located on the far west end of town along Highway 169 at the intersection of Lincoln and Londereerry. The property is currently zoned [clears throat] planned industrial district. It's guided in our comprehensive plan for neighborhood node. This is located in the uh area where we recently completed the Lincoln and London Dair small area plan. But the site was guided for neighborhood node. Just want to quickly read the land use description for a neighborhood node. In general, small to moderate scale commercial, residential or mixeduse buildings serving primarily the adjacent neighborhoods. We have a number of uh neighborhood node districts in the city. Uh the 44th in France, there's a few properties here. uh 54th in France, the Valley View Wooddale area and also 70th and Cahill in the industrial park. Also guided that same neighborhood node. Just want to point out that within these neighborhood nodes, uh the 54th in France, there is a Speedway gas station there and there's also an auto repair in the Valley View and Wooddale. It's now a the uh town hall station. Yeah, it was a gas station within that node. And then the uh the 70th in Cahill, there's also one another Murphy Automotive uh repair shop down there. Other gas stations in town, but don't have that neighborhood node designation. So, the proposal here this evening or sketch proposal is to [snorts] tear down the existing 22,000 square foot office and build a just over 9,000 square foot quick trip. There would be 10 fueling stations on the north side of the site.

The the building itself would be on the south side. There would be no car wash on this site. As planning commission is aware, we have the capacity issue uh there. So, uh, couldn't support a car wash with the amount of water that that's used. So, there's no car wash proposed here. Uh, they are also proposing to be open 24 hours. Access to the site would be often existing shared access with the property owner to the north off of Lincoln Drive. As with any formal request, of course, a parking and traffic study uh would be done to take a look at that um entrance and how it works with that property to the north and of course the the intersections. Um there is a sidewalk proposed along Lincoln Drive that was a key feature in the small area plan. We're looking for boulevard uh trees and extensive landscaping along there. Not a lot of details here as it's a sketch plan. um access off of the existing sidewalk here possibly uh to connect to the store. There's a patio proposed out in this location and the trash um dumpster area would be located uh here. This is this isn't the specific building proposed, just an example. I'm sure you're all familiar with uh Quick Trips. So, there's what a potential building could look like. Looking at the compliance table, there's a number of variances that would be required with a formal application. I'll quickly [snorts] show those. The drive aisle here, it's an existing condition, but a 10- foot side setback is required there. Uh along the entrance ramp to 169, the proposal here is a seven foot setback. So there would be a variance

required there. The idea there um is to push the the use further away from Lincoln to try to increase landscaping and things along here. Again, it's there's quite a distance green space between the property line and the and the entrance ramp. So, that one could be justified. Um, city code also requires a 10-ft setback from a building to the parking spaces. So, essentially a sidewalk along the building. They're proposing [snorts] six and eight feet here. They could either adjust that or a variance would be needed there as well. Uh the location of the trash. Um city code doesn't allow those in a front yard. So we like likely want to see that relocated or again they could apply for a variance. U possibly swap out the patio area with this. Um take advantage of some of those views uh to the to the the creek. [snorts] Uh let's see, parking stalls. Based [clears throat] on the square footage of the building, uh 39 parking stalls are required. They're proposing 32. Again, there would be a parking study that would go along with any formal application. And then the last two, you recall, we require a 20 foot ceiling height for the first floor. Uh they wouldn't meet that. So, a variance would be requested. And also [clears throat] that 75% um transparency along the uh street frontages. Um, in addition to all those variances, this would require a reszoning from the planned industrial district to PCD4. That's the district where gas stations, automotive type uses uh are allowed. So, I will stop there and introduce Dean George from Quicktrip and he's got a short presentation and then we can take your comments and questions after that.

Thanks Carrie. So, I am Dean George with Quick Trip, 1626 Oak Street, Lacrosse, Wisconsin. Um, we can go through this presentation if you guys want. Um, I guess high level, I'll tell you. We've only had this property under contract for about a month. We put it under contract in very, very early October, pretty immediately. Met with Carrie right afterwards to get some feedback preliminary from city staff. He urged us to get a sketch plan together and get it in front of you guys. Um, I understand that there was a Lincoln London small area plan. Um, just completed. A lot of work I think was gone into that. I did some reading over the weekend. Um, it was 95 pages. A lot of good stuff. The big highlight to me was the importance of community engagement in coming at what you guys wanted to see for this particular area. So, we wanted to get this plan in front of you before we spent too much time and energy figuring out if it's a use that you guys would be supportive of in this neighborhood. From Quick Trip's perspective, um the primary two things we look for when identifying a good convenience store site are an abundance of neighborhood and an abundance of traffic. This site certainly has both. Um I myself am an Edina resident. Um, I think that if you live anywhere south of Interlockan or north of the cross town on the west side of a 100, your options for gas and convenience are extremely limited and there are extremely large amount of people that live there. We I guess we can spin through this presentation a little. So, some quick facts about us as an organization. We employ about 39,000 people in the states we operate. We own and operate 900ish convenience stores. We're opening probably three a week for the next 5 or 6 weeks. Um, our standard Gen 3 build is 9200 ft². Each store employs about 40 to 60 people with a good mix of full and part-time. Um, it's a great opportunity for high school kids for retirees or anybody else who wants to work in our

stores. So, there's kind of the breakdown of where we're located. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, South Dakota. We're opening North Dakota next month and then we'll be opening North Sous City and Nebraska next year. And we're continued expansion in all seven states. So we're privately owned, privately operated. So every store is corporate owned their own franchise opportunities. So the Zeta family out of Lacrosse, Wisconsin owns all 900 and some odd stores. Um the second generation is currently chief leadership. First generation is still board member emeritus and all generations um are actively involved. Oldest members of Gen 4 now are I think graduating high school 18 years old. So they're kind of all they're all around Lacrosse, Wisconsin. Some critical growth years started in 1965, one store, 2024, now we have 910 stores. Two main things to mention in this particular slide. 1989 we had a consolidation of ownership. Went from three partners to two. And then in 2000 we again consolidated where the Zila family bought out the other partner and now they own 100% of us. Um critical thing to mention in 1989 was when our 40% profit sharing plan was founded. What that is is the owners of the Quick Drip give to the people that work in our stores and work in our corporate support center 40% of the pre-tax profits back to the employees every year in the form of cash bonus and profit sharing matching. What it does is it helps every employee there understand that they have an impact on the store's growth and they have an impact on their own cash compensation. It helps us keep industry turnover um very very low. So we boast about a 35% turnover level. Industry standard is about 100. Um, everybody knows in working in our stores, our co-workers know that the the more goals they can hit and the more profitability they hit and the cleaner they can keep it and the better they can serve the guests, the more they have the potential to earn. So that's that was born in 1989 and it is still a thing today. We can we don't need to show this slide. There's

that. So we are fully vertically integrated. We have all we make it, we ship it, we sell it is kind of what we say. So we have a large campus in Lacrosse that has bakery, commissary, dairy, ice production, LP, blow mold, you name it, we do it in Lacrosse and we ship it to all of our stores. We have a full fleet of transport vehicles that ship product daily to our stores around the market. And that's why all of our bakery products are so fresh. Uh we also have a big culture of caring. So we give back um anniversary and birthday gifts to co-workers. We have paid sobatical after 20 years of service. We have a thing in the office called families helping families. If your family has fallen on hard times or it's a hardship or a loss or a grief, you can apply for compensation or aid from Quick Trip and everyone kind of chips in. Um, we service a lot of families. Same as Neighbors helping neighbors, same concept. And then we do partner with a lot of local food banks in all the markets that we serve. Um, generally rated as a top employer. Um, you see Iowa, we're number one, Wisconsin number two, Minnesota number 18. I think that speaks to how good a market we are in in the Minneapolis St. Paul. Um, but generally speaking, Quicktrip is the market leader and the industry leader in gas and convenience retail. So, I can stay for questions on this particular development. You guys can tell me we don't want it and I can leave and I can find a different spot in town, but I would love to build this one. [snorts]

Thank you very much. Appreciate the information, transparency, and welcome discussion with the rest of the planning commission. Questions either for staff as well as the applicant. Yeah, you got it. Thanks so much for being here. Uh I spent a odd amount of time at gas stations in and around the city uh this weekend and um wondering if you could speak to a little bit about why this scale is the scale that works for quick trip quick trip both in terms of the retail space and the number of pumps and uh what sort of modeling you did to see to to find that right balance.

So I uh great question. I think on other locations around the metro that are on a highway similar to 169, we would try and scale it larger. So I think most of those have a two-lane side diesel fueling island with a little bit larger space. So if we just put a truck up in Dayton that's astronomically larger than this that has five lanes of diesel fuel. We don't want to do that here. Um the 9176 foot store is the standard prototype we build now in communities of this size. So the 10 [snorts] fueling positions which does serve 20 vehicles at a time um that is also standard. So the gen 310 MPD setup is the standard setup at Quickrip and we only deviate from that if space constraints want us to move downward.

So Adina is not standard. So could you talk to me a little bit about how did you land at 10 and what other configurations you may have explored for this space? Um, and then also where are the options for gas that may not be in the city but that would serve those residents? The Atlanta residents. Yeah. I mean presuming you've done some marketing and figured out where the demand is. That's part of how you landed on this site. Just wondering how you thought about sizing it based on the competition that's already existing. So you said in Dayton it's a lot bigger.

Yes. knowing that it's a dinina, how did you come to 10 and this size store? So, we don't want to attract uh the the diesel customer into a dinina into this neighborhood is kind of the thing. There's no easy on and off to get back to a diesel pump into this location like there is in Dayton. I think we are upsizing this store from competitors in the market because we think there's more need for a little bit more gas for but that doesn't speak to the store. Sorry, it's I guess it's two separate questions. Okay. I understand we're not putting diesel because we don't want diesel trucks to fill up here, but this is for regular gasoline cars.

You would have wanted to put more pumps but landed at 10. Am I understanding that correctly? Well, I think yes and no. It's kind of we don't have space to expand it east west to add more lanes. I don't think is the answer. Nor we can accommodate all the business we need to accommodate out of the 10 setup. I wouldn't want to shrink it. I think if you downsize pump, you start getting more congestion on site, which is what we do see in some of the competitors around I don't want to say this town, but a lot of the metro has a much smaller setup.

Yeah. I mean, the stores that I went to, they all have, I think, less than what you're proposing here and are functioning quite well. So, I think I'm trying to understand how how you come to think about the sizing of the convenience store, why yours, why you want it to be bigger, why what the hole is that you feel exists in the market that you're trying to address by that square footage. And then why not eight? Why not six like some of the other local neighborhood node gas stations? Because we think the demand justifies 10. We really do.

It can just keep coming down the line. Um, you know, similar to Commissioner Hunaman, I was trying to think of um gas stations that were this large in the metro area, and the only ones I could think of were uh the Costco um which is in the middle of a more commercial area, most of the Costco. And um the ones I go to in my neighborhood, Richard neighborhood, I live close to a neighborhood node only has four pumps. Well, two pumps, so serves four cars. Um and I think the one down on 54th in France,

four or six. two islands with two eight soldiers, eight cars. Um, and I've never had an issue finding an open pump at any of those. Um, so I think for me, you know, I'm kind of trying to think through, you know, the whole neighborhood node, how this serves the neighborhood. And I think the um number of pumps is more about the location next to the 169 and not necessarily for the neighborhood. Um you know if it was if I'm thinking about this for a neighborhood if it you know and it's a place for them to gather um I don't necessarily see a quick trip. I see a if if it had uses um where the teenagers could come hang out or um people could pick something up for, you know, taking home or um grab a little bite. not necessarily a place that makes food, but um so I the the size of the convenience store and um the types of products it sells doesn't seem like it's necessarily associated with a with a neighborhood or kind of a neighborhood thing that it's more about um the interstate. And I don't think there's necessarily a question in there, but I but I think for me what I would what I would say is like

like if if this could be more local produce rather than made somewhere and kind of shipped in and if there were only like um you know a couple of pumps um and if it could be you know a more boutique store. I mean I don't necessarily I don't think that's in Quick Trip's um business plan. Um, but I'd see something much smaller than this there.

And and I'd add that none of the gas stations have some of these that are existing now have some of these requirements. I personally see a lot of opportunity to better serve the community by getting variances for, you know, you have to have a sidewalk around the building or whatnot. I would much rather see fewer pumps, a good store that serves the neighborhood. You'll have the benefit of being on 169. But right now, it feels like, as Commissioner um Merryweather said, it feels like it's for the people on 169, not the people in a diner.

We'll look at it. So, Commissioner Felt, um have you shopped at our stores? because we do offer a plethora of grab and go items, prepared food, hot food, places to gather interior. They're very nice on the interior, I will say. Just starting to do the Guy Fiori stuff. No, I don't think so. [laughter] What is it? That's Casey. Yeah.

So, we we introduced the hot food program into Quick Trip in about 2001. Um, we kind of got rid of the Cokes and Smokes model that dominated the Cesar industry for the last, you know, 60 years. Um, and now a a pure majority of our inside sales business is prepared food, fried chicken, pizza, burger, soup, bakery items, that type of thing. So there there are a lot of of great graband-go options that you can get from our interior.

Yeah. And I and I understand that. I just um you know for me if I if I was going to someone's house for dinner over there and I wanted to stop and gas up but also kind of pick up something to bring to someone's house um I don't you know I'm looking for something other than the graband go. you know, the grab and go for me. The only time I avail myself of those is are when I'm like driving across the country

and I'm on an interstate and I stop at uh and get gassed up and and that's like the only time I go to those. I don't see the neighborhood kind of going down there to get um uh candy and and hot food necessarily. So, so I see I see your product kind of serving the interstate and not necessarily both the gas and the I think we can agree to disagree and I think there's plenty of people from the neighborhood that might want to grab a Gatorade and a soda or something of that nature. Absolutely fine.

Yeah, this is definitely one that's going to have a variety of perspectives for sure. Uh might as [clears throat] well just keep coming down the line with comments or discussion points. And again, this isn't limited to just applicant. It can be staff. It can be amongst each other too. Well, and we can have a discussion after the question. This is questions, right? Well, it's a little of both because there's no recommendations necessarily. This is all this is all you got. Oh, okay. Well, other So, you said you read the small area plan, right? Yeah.

Um, I didn't lead that. Commissioner Day and others were really involved with that. A lot of people in the neighborhood and the community were really involved with that. I wasn't as much. But when you when you read it, Mhm. did you come away with the impression that what the work that folks had done and the vision that people had put together that that this that a gas station was kind of what was being envisioned like this a gas station and a large one was [snorts] what was being envisioned by that work from a planning perspective. I didn't get that takeaway. No. Okay. That was just what I was wondering because if if you had I was going to say like how do you see it kind of lining up with

there? So there's one mention in that small area plan that says you know some residents or whoever was responding to the survey thought that the area was would be better served some with some additional amenities such as grocery which we do provide. Yeah. I forget what page that was on but that's about the only mention I heard to kind of our traditional services. Okay. All right. Yeah. I by the way I think this is an interesting presentation. interesting business. It sounds like you guys do a lot of great work and have a good company. So, I appreciate all that. Thank you.

I don't think that this is what's this this type of use in this place is what was envisioned by the small area plan. Um, and I don't think the reasoning to a to a district that's just for gas stations and car washes is what was envisioned by that output. So, personally, I think it's maybe the wrong spot for but not not a bad business, not a bad concept, probably the wrong location. Um, given all the planning work that's gone around this site. Yeah, I understand that completely. But when I come back for a different spot, I got your support. Well, it [laughter] depends. I'm just kidding. It depends. But well, like we we're like supportive of businesses that in this city,

there's certain parts of the city that um there's a different vision for in my opinion. But appreciate you being here. Follow up with that [snorts] to speak to whether they disagree or agree or have other observations.

I I mean I pretty much echo what you just said. Will and say, you know, I was [clears throat] born and raised in Wisconsin, so I'm very familiar with Quick Trip. It's very it's very nice. It's probably the top of the gas station, you know, hierarchy in terms of amenities that provides. And there are a lot of great things about uh Quick Trip in terms of yes, the grocery and stuff like that. So I'm familiar with that. Um but as you know, Commissioner Borstein said, I was part of that Lincoln London small area plan. Um spent a lot of time talking to the residents in this room tonight. And yeah, I would agree that this isn't this isn't really what we envisioned for this spot. Um and I think you have a tall ask and also in terms of the zoning change, the variance, the number of variances required, um and just getting community buy in here. So,

so I will comment on the variances required. We're we haven't gone down a design path. So, we don't know if all those are going to be necessary. I'm guessing a clear majority of them will be, but there are some that we can probably limit out with design changes. Sure. Yeah. But, I mean, it just pretty much echoes what people have said about the neighborhood know the amenities and etc. And it's just it's not I mean Quick Trip again parts of Quick Trip yes I think do better than other gas stations would in terms of fulfilling that need and that what we talked about for amenities, grocery etc. Um but the rest of Quick Trip in terms of you know the traffic, the number of gas station stalls etc isn't really what we were looking for here. So, I'll just say that.

Um, I'm just going to echo what the previous commissioner said. I mean, I live like a 4-minute walk from the proposed Quake trip and I don't really think it's the location, especially since I was also keeping track of the small area plan discussions when that thing was happening. And it doesn't feel very in line. No. Uh thank you for the presentation. I I really appreciate um [snorts] sharing that business right and the family style that it's located that's uh driving it. Just a couple thoughts. Um I read through the uh the small area plan was not 100% in all the meetings but attended a couple of of the discussions and um you know the sense that came out from that was you know this is a very nature kind of picturesque quiet not necessarily quiet but cuz it's on a highway there but the folks in the area really appreciate ated the ability to to walk uh to not have congestion um just that neighborhood feel right and I and I think that's the essence of what some folks on the commission are uh pointing out. At the same time, um, when the plan was put together, right, uh, it didn't state specifically what should be there and so folks like yourself would identify opportunities, bring them forward, and, um, you know, test the idea to see does this fit, right? I think one thing that would have been great to come out of, um, the small area plan was maybe just a couple concepts of ideas of what could be there. So things like um a health hub or something like that could you know bring uh folks mind around that idea of

maybe something like a healthy option gym something like that. When you look at the the demographics uh of the folks that live in that region that might be something they might be interested in. Um a couple of other ideas could be um uh a food shed farmers market you know idea. I'm just kind of putting out ideas which are things that if the discussions kind of said I would love to see this kind of thing then that would help guide folks like yourself to say hm here's what they're looking for cuz it's not called out specifically uh family rec center you know where folks could come and bring kids hang out play pickle ball courts these kind of things I'm just saying that because um you know the the small area plan didn't call out specifically but these would be concepts of what could go there. That being said, um the discussion on congestion I think makes sense too, right? Where in some of these nodes that we have within the dinina, it's kind of embedded. These gas stations for example are embedded in the neighborhood centralized. So the residents that would be using them would be folks that are basically 360 degrees from your dinina, right? So you could afford to have a a fourlane or four pump station and not be congested, you know, because we're not dealing with massive amount amounts of traffic coming through. Um, I appreciate your your idea with not having the diesel stations, so trucks wouldn't come through. And this location is literally abuing a highway and the neighborhood. And if you were to reduce the size as you're mentioning to let's say six pumps or something like that, someone on the highway is going to see a quick trip and say, "Hey, I want to stop there." But then 10 other guys are going to say the same thing. And before you know it, there's a line of cars trying to get in that's causing congestion to get out of Lincoln and London London Derry, right?

And I'm sure you don't want that. So it had to be 10 uh so we avoid the congestion issue, right? So I could get the size concept there. But overall, I think based on the comprehensive I mean the the uh the small area plan and the takeaways that that folks had, I'm not sure if the gas station model is something that folks get excited about, but folks might be more excited about the convenience store. Not necessarily this particular convenience store, but maybe along those lines. Uh a place where they could pick up groceries, shop, these kind of things would be more palatable in my point of view. But I don't know. Um, I'll be leaning heavily on the folks that were involved with the neighborhood node and the small area plan feedback like what they gathered from that conversation to see what neighbors want. Else we're going to have more meetings like this one where you pitch it, we bounce around, we kind of have a sense of if it's going to fit and then you go back and then someone else is going to come up with something else, right? So, it's how do we figure out what's the best use of this space that would make the residents feel comfortable with that without having not random but like different developers pitching ideas. That's that's kind of my question to the team to see how can we narrow this down to a few concepts that would actually work so then we attract the right developers to come here and we could have a a more uh progressive conversation. I'm not saying no, but I'm not sure if a gas station is going to be the best concept here.

I hear you. I think the problem you're kind of describing is you have this guided so to speak for retail commercial. So, you're going to get an abundance of retail commercial users who want to utilize the space kind of however they want to, which is kind of why I'm here. Um, but I I I understand all of your concerns and your feedback. So, thank you. That's it. I'm going to start with a couple questions. Um, first of all, in um you left out um the car wash because of the sewer capacity issue. So, without regard to the car wash, there is no sewer capacity issue.

I don't think so. I mean, again, we haven't had it designed specifically with, you know, plans, but not that I know of. No, I can't imagine. No. Okay. Um, and then um when um Director Teague um introduced it, he talked about a gas station or that's what we've been talking about, a gas station with a convenience store. In the applicant narrative, you called it a convenience store with a canopy for pumps. Um, which begs the question, what's your revenue breakdown between the two sources?

Um, I I think most stores probably have more sales inside than they do outside. If I had to put them all into a box, shake it out, drop the average, I'd say you'd sell more inside than you do outside. Okay. You're talking about number u what? Total dollars is my question. Uh total dollars I can't tell you. Total dollars fuel gallon is heavily it varies all over the place.

Okay. So I'm trying to get a feel for um the person who comes in um your customer is going to buy gas and stop and get something to eat. They're going to do both. or the people in the neighborhood going to sometimes just stop for a convenience store. The people on the highway are sometimes just going to stop. I'm trying, you know, do you understand what I'm trying for here?

I think the the average customer is more than likely going to stop if you're on the highway to use the bathroom and to grab something to eat. Not necessarily gas dependent. So, I think there is more stuff sold inside of the store then more customers ring the register inside than outside. Okay. All right. That helps. Which is not a revenue breakdown, but that it's a customer breakdown. It's a customer breakdown. That's really the easiest way for us to do it because your gas margin can it varies market to market, store to store. Okay. And um you said because the food is fresh, you have daily deliveries, correct? Um and that's one truck basically that comes in and delivers all of your fresh goods.

And truthfully, about 80% of the product. So we have central distribution warehouse out of Lacrosse. So, we don't want to have the Old Bash guy and the Fredo Lays guy and the Hershey guy and the Coke guy and the Pepsi guy all drop in product at the same time. So, they all deliver to us in Wisconsin in Lacrosse and then we'll put it on one of our quick trip trucks and ship it up. And how often do you get gas delivered? It depends on how much gas you're selling. I would say conservatively twice a week we'll do fuel drop. Twice for three, two and a half times. Okay. So, would you say you're a gas station or a convenience store? I would say we're a convenience store.

Okay. I would say the senior leadership at Quicktrip um in 1988 or nine when we had a consolidation of owners the first time the senior leaders all came to us from Gateway Foods um which they are I think they ran Rainbow Foods up in this market if you guys remember those stores. Um their emphasis always has been what's inside the box is greater than what's outside the box. So, so they're they really understand that you need the clean interior, you need quality product, you need clean bathrooms. Inside takes precedence over outside. So, I would say we're a convenience store.

Okay. I um I don't think that um this is com I think comparing a a project like this to the gas stations particularly like the Speedway on 54th in France there's apples and oranges because that's a very very small you know plot of land all they can have is a is a few I mean uh a few pumps a few cars at a time it's hard to turn around and yet everyone in the neighborhood still goes was there for milk and hundred other things. So even though the convenience store is probably 2% of the size of yours, you know, it it it it still serves it does serve a neighborhood purpose in terms of groceries. And you the ones with the the the um commercial about somebody's going over like the in-laws house for dinner, so they stop at Quick Trip to buy food to bring for dinner.

Sounds like us. Yeah. Okay.

I don't watch that much TV. Sounds like us. Yeah. bit of a stretch, but I understand where you're trying where you're heading with your marketing. Um, and and I think the last thing that I will say is um clearly the economics of what you're trying to do is based upon the fact that you are by the highway and that's going to drive a lot of your business. So I think if you want it to make it um attractive to um the western part of Edina and to the city council and to everybody here, you need to work on, you know, some community involvement pieces and something that's really going to attach you to the neighborhood. I have got uh couple questions for staff. Uh Carrie, you mentioned the other gas stations in neighborhood note. I thought it was pretty interesting, but when I was listening to you talk about that, it was I don't have the data handy, but it seemed likely that all of those were already there before that was designated NN. Does that sound right to you?

That does sound right to me. Yes. Okay. And then is it possible to get that site plan back up again for a sec? Yeah, that one I can't remember and maybe one of the folks who was on the small area plan can refresh our memory. So, there's a bike facility that goes from 9M Creek towards the tunnel that goes under 169. How does that path relate to this plot? East side. Is it right on the east side of it? Yeah, it runs along Lincoln Drive and goes goes north and the tunnel is further north.

The small area plan highlighted that the Strava data says they like to go over instead of under. Right. So, does it go to is it on Lincoln Drive? Yes. On the right side or I guess it would be on both sides of the street. It's the bike side. The bike path is on the east side. Okay. Path, but I think there is a trail. I mean, there's there's marking on the west side on both sides. The trails on the east side itself, the green trail that's that's apart from the street, but okay. Um

for this to be good uh to for this to be a good store about how many cars need to come every day for you to be happy? a plus or minus 10%. I was just curious about Come back to me on that. I'll do some math in my head. Uh it seems like it'd be a lot, but I don't It's a decent amount. Yeah, it's I would say I need to sell in the tens of thousands of gallons of fuel on a weekly basis if that helps you. Probably more than Yeah. Yeah. See, I figured that wasn't going to help. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Um thanks. Thanks for that and thanks for being here.

I've been to many, many cryps and had a good experience at all of them. Uh there's one in particular in Windham that I went to regularly on my trips back and forth to the west and I always look forward to stopping there for gas and something to eat. So it's a great store as an old SunX. Thank you.

Um just listening particularly to the folks who are involved in the small area plan. I just can't get past I I can't personally find a way to make equip match up to the terminology in the small area plan serving primarily the adjacent neighborhoods and I as from listening to them talk I feel like that's what I feel like this is not what they were after and what we are after as a city. So that would be probably the most direct feedback I could give but thank you very much for coming.

Yeah, I echo that. Thank you for for being here and and presenting. Um ju just a few comments really. Um I I definitely see the need and and the reason you selected the site. I mean it's available and there's not uh gas on 169. You go down to Anderson Link Parkway maybe to the south and I think it might be Plymouth on the north where you where you would see a uh see a gas station off the freeway and east and west. Not that you're really on cross town, but um you know, you go a couple miles over to where there's a BP near the Opus area

and then it's probably Ingrove Heights before you get to another one going going east. So I I understand the the desire to um be seen and be out there. Um are all your stores 247? They are not.

Okay. Because I see that uh you know some of the hurdles you're you're going through beyond the the variances and reszoning you you you might be looking for is I think the 24-hour concern the site lighting at a at a a store such as yours um just seems to not necessarily fit with with the area the signage now while it be on the 169 side I again I'm not 100% familiar with our signage requirements in the city but uh that just doesn't that that seems uh like it'd be a challenge. The deliveries, as was mentioned before, with both gas and product, your groceries and and other products, uh multiple times a week, probably daily at least on the deliveries for the groceries and the and the fresh um fresh food you're bringing in. And simply the traffic. I mean, getting in and out of that site. Most most I I know you've I I've seen other sites you've done in in town in this area in in our u metro area that logistically are more difficult than this. But after I've been to those, I would I would drive a little further to find another [laughter] another one to go to. So, but this getting in and off and and it's you hits residential very quickly. Um, in fact, directly across the street there's there's town homes and I believe they're town homes and not condominiums, but either way, a lot of residential right there. Again, uh, which may serve the residential to to some degree, but um, those are just initial comments I had. Um, and I'll just leave it at that. But thank you.

Hi there. Just just one quick question. I know you mentioned that this store is like a Gen 3 uh style of of store. Um how much of the design of the convenience side of it is something that you [snorts] can get more input on? like is this like a a store and floor plan design that's from the corporate headquarters that you know it has to be this dimension these amount of rows this is you know or is there any flexibility of adding different things and adjusting it just based on the low the the uh region where you're actually trying to build.

So uh great question. So this is the this is the prototype we we try and build and every community we built into every community is just a little bit different. Some have requests that you have to fit with the character of the neighborhood or the character of the planned unit development that you're in or you have some other design features that we have hit in the past if we're able to. Um I don't like to say this one as an example, but we have a store in Still Water that's like wood siding and it's yellow. Um so it we can take feedback back to the office and say, "Hey, these are the design standards that are a hard you have to hit these in this community or you cannot build." And we'll see what we can do if anything. So to answer your question, this is the cookie cutter floor plan that we try and build everywhere. We have deviated from it. We don't like to. We actually would prefer not to. And the reason being kind of when you drive down the road, you want to look like a quick trip. You want people to see your building and say, "Oh, that's quick." Like, "I know that building. I know that design." If you have if you have a thousand different designs, you lose your your uniformity and you kind of your core. Yeah.

Yes. And and no. I mean the brand is the brand. Target among other retailers but first one comes to mind has small format stores. I think I used to live next to the 44th in France node. We walked to the gas station all the time for for milk for the kids, for juice, for cereal, for all of those basics. It was a great thing, but it was a very walkable store. I would personally feel like some of our requirements on parking and spacing and distancing makes it more challenging to build the very thing that was so lovely, a small conven, you know, a convenience store with a gas pump. But it had to it's communityf facing, not highway facing. And I think that's the biggest challenge. You see the traffic on 169 as a possible revenue generator, but this site wants the community wants it to be for them. So, let me ask you this as a followup and this I'll maybe make this to the commission maybe you directly if we we we have a Gen two model which shrinks your store into about 7100 square feet. Does that the design features on the exterior will be exactly the same? The store will look moderately similar on the interior. You'll probably lose some back office space. You'll lose a little retail space, but it will feel like you're walking into a quick drip. Does that make it more palatable to the commission

if we shrink the amount of gas pumps? Yes, to me it does because I have had a experience with a neighborhood node and a small gas station. Our code currently for gas stations wouldn't let us create or let you or anyone create what I've experienced because it's been there for 50 years. But that does seem pal palatable to me. Does that gen two come with fewer pumps as well generally or? the building doesn't we can shrink the amount of pumps. If you guys are if you I'm hearing you right, you want me to lop off a row of pumps

and make the store more accessible. All of that parking that you'd have to walk through is what a pedestrian doesn't want to overcome. And it's not um you're navigating all that parking, all the cars coming in and out. It's just not an orientation that faces the neighborhood the same way. And that is driven, I'm sure, in part by our code. But if you're coming in for variances, yeah, I guess it's also driven in part by where the only access to the site is. There's only one way in the site. You can't get one off the east, off the west side, or the south side. You can only come in off the Lincoln Drive side.

Yes, understood. And I think that's part of the issue with this being a gas station here is that you can't access off London Road. You have to go into the neighborhood um and drive past all the town homes to get in there. And I and I think that's part of the issue that it brings a lot of traffic into the neighborhood rather than just um off right off the um interstate. Yes, agreed. But I think anyone any any redevelopment user on this lot is going to have the same access point. So there's not going to be you cannot avoid that. Right.

All right. I have a I have a few comments and maybe a couple questions in there. I just want to thank the rest of the commission so far. I think there's been a lot of good questions and feedback and perspective and appreciate your perspective and answer so far. I think my first comment is just the irony of timing. I've been I've been on the commission for almost 10 years and we've done up a number of small area plans and almost always something comes in like right away and it isn't necessarily ideal from the vision of the small area plan. So, timing wise, it's kind of ironic. Um, and I'll get [clears throat] back to that, but back to timing. I think if this came 5 years ago, I don't know if we'd have a leg to stand on with a lack of vision. I mean, the reality is this is right off of 169, right at an exit, right where there's a void of this convenience and gas. I mean, it to me when you just look at it on paper, like you guys probably did when you bought it or got a contract on it, it just checks all the boxes. It looks obvious like why isn't this there type of type of thing. So I think there's a reality that the small area plan kind of puts its back on, you know, just to be frank. I mean, this is a small area plan on the border of Edina on a freeway.

There are always going to be this type of competing interest. And as much as we'd want like a nice little neighborhood thing, the reality is it's right on a regional connection both for a bike trail and for a freeway. So, I think no matter I think whatever we're going to end up seeing here, whether it is this or some version of this, there is going to be some sort of thing we're going to have to wrestle with from a convenience, an access, a regional versus local nature that some of those other neighborhood nodes we talked about, it's like I when this was called neighborhood node, I'm like it's different than some of those other ones like Wooddale Valley View where you're you're in the city and you're not on a big set of roadway system like it is different. So you're you're going to see potentially things like this. I didn't expect to see it as being the first thing, but that is also another reality is as we finish a small area plan, there hasn't been something different proposed yet. So, you know, we've had things come before that, you know, aren't weren't as wellreceived and other areas around here. And it's just I just sympathize with you guys. I sympathize with the with the rest of the community as well as some commissioners who put together the small area plan. and then you see this. It's not exactly what you'd hope, but I think there are aspects of this project like even though it's not exactly what you picture, I I do I see Quick Trips in general as convenience station stores. And so if you lpped off the north half of this and enhanced it, like I think there's something there that the community really could rally around. And that's maybe where my perspective is different. I I like a 24/7 place where I can go wherever. I'm different than most people, but like we live close to this

holiday. We walk there all the time, not for gas. Quick trips, I stop almost 95% of the time, not for gas, but for their food and their convenience and the experience. It having this next to a neighborhood I live in, I actually would like that. So, I'm I'm different. it doesn't match the small area plan, but there's aspects where because we got to be careful like it no one's stopping, you know, someone from getting a contract on and proposing something. So, the city council could really like aspects of this and push us forward. So, how I'm going to spend the rest of my time is just kind of giving specific examples of what could make this way more palatable for me. That'd be shrinking at least one bay of the pumps. I think the community would risk, you know, some of the queuing for just less vehicle presence. I would move that that um I guess the trash location like Director Teague said to that west side and really just build like the nicest landscape patio type of community aspect kind of down that east side, southeast corner and south side where that draws a community in and as a place to hang out cuz I mean you guys got great food and great experience. It's like if I lived by there, I'd be getting stuff and eating there. I mean, if there wasn't other choices. And then one of the var one of the variances I'd support for sure would be pushing this site as far to the west along the interstate on-ramp as possible. And I' I'd probably do that for whatever is proposed here, not just Quicktrip. um just get as much of the like the traffic and density and use and intensity farther from Lincoln Drive just more from a visual standpoint where you

create more of a buffer. So yeah, you have other comments. I just since we're talking about things that could make it better, I I think you might have to get rid of two sets of pumps to get anyone um to really consider it. Also, the squares and the squiggles. I I guess that's where your drainage is or your on the north side of the site closest to the drive. Yeah. So, can you guys see this? Have I used No, I can't. Oh, yeah.

So, right here, these are underground storage tanks for fuel. That's where those are buried. And farther to the north of there is drainage storage. So I would heavily consider how we can reorient things to be more efficient so we don't have quite as much concrete so that it is more inviting to bikers and pedestrians. Um and the gas if the gas is the afterthought because you're a convenience store company right now it's the pavement associated with it is taking up three4s of the of the site.

Um yes agreed. I think that we'll probably have the same amount of pavement if you have 10 or eight or probably even six pumps or you'll just be getting fuel delivery way more frequently. Well, yes. Um, but there are lots of architects who can figure out how to make that be on a smaller footprint. We'll play around with it. I don't love six. Eight, I think we can do easily. Six, I think that there's going to be too much demand for six and you will have congestion on site. And if that if that kicks it if that get kicks us to no that's fine right? Y

and I guess just the the the last of my comments is the size. I mean the reality is like Commissioner Padilla mentioned this this site is just different than the other local neighborhood convenient shops that have gas pumps there. It's this is a bigger site so you got it. Why wouldn't you use it? I guess again like what I would want to see is just a much a much uncomfortable shift for you toward more green space and like landscape type of amenity that just draws some sort of gathering place besides in your store even though it's only half the year. Um yeah, we can play around with that too. I mean the one option is we were I guess directed to maybe lay it out like this. We could try and laying it out with the bloating and the dumpster enclosure on the opposite side so you have it on the west side instead of the east side of the building. The east side can be parking or green space or patio or tables or whatever. And I guess you can probably replace that parking you're going to lose uh with where the patios currently are now. We'll play around with that and maybe see what it looks like.

And I guess I I mean again I'm I'm not really focused on the store side. I I feel like if you had again if it were more of a 7-Eleven and just convenience totally focused without gas, I mean I think it's a much easier lift. So store size isn't an issue for me if it serves more of the neighborhood, meaning you have more options, more variety, more grocery. That's the kind of stuff that we would want commercially. I have a question for staff. Carrie, do you have somewhere on the rendering we sent along that maybe looks like a mock landscape plan?

Uh, no. There were two PDFs. One kind of looks like a Check your email. [laughter] Okay. Yeah. I just welcome other discussion points. I I just sympathize with the timing. We had this with every small area plan where there'd be something proposed that just wasn't quite ideal. Most of them got approved. This one I'd say is less ideal unless we saw a dramatically different approach. But totally respect that you're trying to put I mean a Gen 3 that like fits this site. I mean why why wouldn't you propose that? And I guess that's our role here is to try to push against that and really focus and harness the convenience side if if this does go through and the city council supports it ultimately. We have to be prepared for what type of recommendations we'd want to see.

I don't think you need to sympathize with us. I mean, we're here getting this feedback for a good purpose, right? We want we need to know this if we want to move forward or not. And I this is this has been great for us. So don't don't don't worry about us. Any other questions, feedback, discussion between the commission? Yeah, Commissioner Smith.

Yeah. So, really good back and forth Q&A and discussion by the team. If I were to kind of put this in perspective, are we saying that it's not a no, but it's a try to adjust it and come up with something that might be more palatable, or is it a complete no? He's just that

is just non-bining feedback, but I would I would say there's some sentiment that's probably more of a no and more of a kind of and certainly in the community and probably among the council, too. I mean, we're just it's just conjecture now, but we're not here to say necessarily yes or no. It's really non-binding feedback for the proposed request. Yeah, I mean feel free to add on especially you guys as the co-chairs of the small airplane. No, Lou was the chair. We were just on the working. I'm co-chairs before it got changed. [laughter]

Yeah, for a quick minute. Um, I do appreciate Commissioner Smith and you, um, Chair Bennett talking about the could be because we haven't had a lot come before us on this and, um, you know, the similar plan is kind of, um, loose and so any kind of feedback about what might be palatable, I really appreciate. and interesting. I mean, I I go to different food stores that you guys do, but I I mean, I could see a convenience store that had like a lot of pop-ups or supported a lot of local places really being popular over in this area because I think you do have to drive far to go to um a grocery store or get something. Um so, I could I could see a use for convenience there. So, I appreciate that.

I thought of a question for the applicant. Do you guys have electric vehicle chargers? Is that part of your programming? Uh, it's being rolled out as we speak. So, the idea of having a place to go charge my car and I run in and I do 10 20 minutes of grocery shopping or whatever. That to me speaks more neighborhood versus somebody just stopping by to use the bathroom on the way up 169. I will will caution you on that. I think that most people who live in this neighborhood are going to charge their car at their house. I think if we start advertising charging stations at this location off 169, it will be a lot of 169 traffic if that is there. But we can add it if you guys want to see it add it.

I think there's a lot of people who live in apartment buildings and things that don't charge their cars at their house. Mr. Day, you had

um yeah, I mean I I just you know when you mentioned the 7-Eleven that is something that we kind of talked about during the small area plan is like a convenience store without the gas element and that could be really nice, right? And I know again Quick Trip fulfills a lot of that same basic um functionality. But one thing I wanted to talk about was, you know, go back to the vision piece, the the vision statement for the Lincoln Londary Small Area Plan. Um, and the biggest conflict in my mind is talking about how, you know, being sustainably designed, eco-friendly amenities with natural beauty and how that interfaces with Nine Mile Creek being right there and everything else. Big gas station with bright LED lights and a big sign isn't is again kind of really in conflict with what we had visioned there in terms of how we build this out, right? We do want there to be amenities. is we do want there to be something that serves the community. But again, it was a lot of, you know, the eco-friendly piece blending in with nature, green, um, more walkable, bikable, right? This is pure car driven. Um, you know, a lot of traffic, a lot more traffic than what people had expressed interest in seeing come into the community, right? I know you said, you know, tens of thousands of gallons um, a week, right? I did quick math. If you say an average 15 gallon tank, right, in a seven gall tank uh 15 gallon tank, it's you know it's several thousand cars in in a week, right? Coming through and you live about seven, it's several, you know, several hundred per day.

Um and it's just that's just, you know, the reality of, you know, when we had the discussions with the community, they said we're really concerned about that. When there was traffic on 169, we had a lot of people coming through. Um, I'm not sure what that is. Um, but yeah, so again, it's just being, you know, a community node, green, easily walkable, bikable, etc., and integrating well with the NM Creek area. Um, and I it's just not quite there for me with with this, right? And again, I I think it's definitely good to have the discussion about how can we make it more palatable um, and make it more community focused. I just it's too high of a hurdle in my in my mind. [snorts] And I did have a question for Carrie actually. Has three Rivers Park District like reached out at all about this and given its proximity to NM Creek with

on this specific proposal? No. Okay. Just where I just wonder.

So got another couple questions. So, and again, I I mentioned this and mentioned the recommendations cuz it wasn't on the heels of the Grand View, but we when that caribou got proposed, I I think the commission shut it down 8 to1 and it got approved and we didn't focus much on what could have made it better. So again, just I think back to like providing non-binding feedback for this proposal like should it go through like just want to make sure everyone like says their piece. Um another comment that came to mind and prompted by this note is and you brought up like the light pollution. So, one thing that I know we would want differently, especially with this like this neighborhood thing right on a regional connection, is like focus on the sign and its lights and like however like we you need to be able to speak to like mitigating light pollution, especially at night and away from the neighborhood.

We we can do that now. I suppose you're going to get a full phototric plan with our civil design that shows that there is no light pollution off site. you're you'll the buzzword is the adjacent properties are going to the foot candle is zeroed out at our lot line. So that's not to say that the residents here can't look out and see a quick trip, but their properties will not be illuminated by our signage or our lights or our canopy or whatever. And

I guess on that, I mean there's other stations where, you know, the convenience shuts down, pumps run on, lights dim a notch, you know, where it looks a little more closed, but it's still open. So, I mean, I I know people would be very encouraged if that type of strategy was done. Not necessarily being closed, but taking things even down a notch from what you visibly see. I mean, make sure it's safe, but don't illuminate it in like to a level that I think we all picture would worry people living by. Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, you're Sorry. looking at a we have a

team a rendering kind of put together. It looks like a lot of concrete when you just see the sketch plan. So when you kind of see it with a little bit of landscaping and grass, it maybe looks a little bit different than what you saw. Maybe disagree. Okay. I think you should go look at the small neighborhood node gas stations and then be prepared to explain why you can't do that because this is a huge site so it's a lot more concrete.

Okay, I'll do that. And I guess that'd go to the recommendation I'd still have and like staff had about relocating that dumpster in that southeast corner. I mean that that to me is it's kind of what some of the other projects we've seen at like a gateway to an area. This is definitely a gateway property to this small area plan in a way. And that southeast corner to me is like the welcome from the neighborhood. So instead of seeing a dumpster right there, that's you know like in that next proposal like shifting that and really enhance like again just really enhancing a community gathering place and landscape and stuff that you wouldn't typically see at a quick trip like at all. But something that would have to be incorporated into this to even reach a level that some would support and for some of us definitely not support. But that's what I'd recommend.

I guess I'm a little hung up on why everyone wants to have it shrunk. I mean, I get why we want it shrunk so much, but the existing service providers kind of in this general market are they're difficult to navigate in and around. I know you guys say you go there and there's always there's always pump. Maybe you like that. Yeah,

we do like that because we're a dina. We're not and I didn't grow up here. I'm not from here, but there there's something niche here, right? Galleria doesn't exist in in Dayton or the other cities. you were uh Southdale doesn't exist like 50th in France. All of those pieces of the identity are not cookie cutter stamp that work in other suburbs. And so if you want to cookie cutter stamp what works in other suburbs in this site especially, I think it's it's going to have a lot of resistance. I think that's why those gas stations survived where they did and why they became neighborhood nodes because they were serving that community and became a part of that ecosystem. if this convenience store was pushed closer to Lincoln Drive and there was a second entrance there and benches and people were gathering there or you just had a lot more green space and fewer stalls and fewer parking spaces because you don't really need them but you know like that's the kind of thing that exists now and it works and people like it and use it. This doesn't exist and may not work in the city let alone here. And I think it might be I mean your business plan you want to kind of make the most money you can on the side and right so you've suggested a G3 [gasps] um store. I mean I could see this working up on Excelsier on 169 where there's a lot of commercial around it but I think for me this is right next to residential. Um, it's got residential all along that west side and it's a residential entrance into a a neighborhood. Um, there's commercial on the north and south of this, but because of all that residential on the east side

of it is the inongruity to me between the size of this and and the neighborhood. And I kind of feel like if it got small enough to make sense, it wouldn't be commercially viable to quick trip. I guess a question for you, Commissioner Felt, is like say again, say there were no gas pumps, you know, and we're just looking at the convenient store. Do you still feel that way about location? just to kind of tease. I mean, there's a tension here, right? Again,

right. Well, one of the things that um everyone in the apartment complex wanted was someplace to go get beer so they can go back to the pool, right? And not drive down to Eden Prairie or something like that. So, that's where the idea of the convenience store kind of came from. Um, so a place to kind of grab something and hang out, I'd be much more for it. It's it's the 10 pumps that are bothering me. Any other discussion or questions, comments? Staff or developer? Do you have any questions for us?

No, I mean, I think this has been lively, more lively than I probably was anticipating. I I think the existing gas stations in this community are built were built the way they were built because that was what the industry was at the time of their construction. This is what the industry is now. And I don't think there's been a new gas station constructed in it in many many years. Somebody have that data. Carrie, I do. It was 1999. They It's now a holiday station off of Highway 100 and Edina Industrial Boulevard by the Dairy Queen. And before that, do you have any idea? Before that, I don't know. back gas and convenience users used to locate on very tiny crosses of land with very limited pumps. They're called dive in pumps. You're facing parallel to the store at an angle

kind of the holiday on Vernon is parallel to the store. The probably the 54th in France is on yeah angled the the holiday by me is on the 58th and Xerxes is angled which kind of a pain to get in and out of. So this is this is the new industry standard. Um that's why it's shown. Well, if that's it, that's it. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you guys.

Appreciate your interest in Edina and you know we again we support business and just trying to align vision with a certain area and your vision and hopefully it can be a little more compatible. Maybe not. But good luck at city council. When when will this uh be before them? This will go to city council next Tuesday.

Sometimes what we've seen and I mean is we see tweaks to this based on our feedback by the time it gets to council. We recommend considering that too. I mean just so then you get a level of either more buying or something closer that before the formal submission you have an an extra level of feedback that you can work with. So, I'd take, you know, even this landscape plan and do something different. Um, take our feedback if you have time to make some tweaks, even if they're pretty basic, that'll help you and help the community. Any other questions, comments, anything? All right. Thank you very much. Have a good night.

Thank you. All right. That concludes our reports and recommendations and sketch plan. want to thank the community for attending and listening and being patient. And we're on to chair and member comments. Do we have any? Yeah, Commissioner Smith. Yeah. So, uh I think the last planning commission meeting we talked about the ADU uh just communicating the status of where we are. So, in the Suncurren tomorrow, you guys should be seeing an an article coming out just sharing with the neighborhood kind of the current state. So, nice. Yeah. Thank you, Quincy. Commissioner Padilla,

I don't know how many people got a chance to go to the open house, the the firehouse grand opening. It was great. It's a wonderful facility. It was so much fun. They offered so many things for people of all a children of all ages. Um, and I mean, it's my hope that they have an open house once a year because it's it's I mean, they don't they don't do it on Halloween, but you know, I mean, just to educate the, you know, show everybody in the community what's there. It's something um I think it's another, you know, jewel in the in the community and something everybody should be proud of and the more you see of it and the more you get to walk around and take a tour, you know, the better you feel about it, your safety and the community. I'll say it opened just in time because that morning of the open house, there was a fire at the apartment building right across the street. And so the fire chief showed pictures to us and was saying that some of the it was at shift change. So some of the firefighters actually just grabbed their gear and ran over there from from the fire station rather than getting on the truck. So just in time and they were able to maintain or contain that fire uh pretty well because of its proximity to fire station 2. So interesting tidbit there, too.

[snorts] And I'm just going to add on there is a community room there that the public can I'm sure they've got some guidelines but the public can reserve and it'd be a great way to see the building. It was an incredible investment by everyone in the community too. So I mean might as well make use of it and celebrate it. It's beautiful. Any any other comments from members? Okay, move to staff comments.

I would anticipate that we use that community room with our next comprehensive plan is as those who have been involved in previous comprehensive plans, we um have a lot of meetings away from city hall. So, I would anticipate that we'll use that space. Uh the city council didn't has not met since the last time the planning commission met due to the election. So, no report today. That's it. Thank you. One last item of business. Oh, or is that a question for staff? Well, you really want to question for the staff for the community because you might know the latest. Um, any updates on opening the ramps at 50th and I do have an update on that. Okay.

They will be open this Friday at midnight. So, Saturday all access off the ramps here should be a go. Be there at 12:01 to celebrate. [laughter] Yet the railroad bridge is sitting till spring. So it's like a half clap for me. Honestly, it's a big half clap. [laughter] Uh motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor say I.

I. So moved. Meeting's been adjourned. Thank you everyone. That is very very true.