Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right, welcome everybody to the October 29th, 2025 city. Whoa. Planning Commission meeting.

Yeah, that was You don't see that every day. You good? All right. We're doing magic tricks back here. [laughter] That's wild

for those who didn't. Well, yeah, whatever. We don't need to go into that. So, say it every time, but you know, we appreciate your curiosity, your participation, your feedback um in regards to change in Edinus, specifically the ways in which we like to use our land. Uh a quick rundown for tonight's meeting. We'll call it to order, then roll call. We'll do approval of tonight's agenda, followed by the prior meeting minutes. Then we have community comment, which is similar to a public hearing where you get a chance to speak about a matter not on tonight's agenda. And then we do have one public hearing tonight. After that, we'll have chair and member comments, staff comments, and adjournment. Uh it's important to know that any and all feedback that's been submitted has made its way to us. The best way to get it to us is through the city's engagement website, ww.etto togetherina.org. That's where you can find tonight's public hearing and the variety of comments related to that. We commit to you that we have received it and we consider it as we make recommendations for approval or denial. Without further ado, call the meeting to order. Then roll call. Commissioner Nelson

here. Commissioner Elky here. Commissioner Pia here. Commissioner Smith here. Commissioner Jaw here. Commissioner Just here. Commissioner Day here. Commissioner Bournestein here. Commissioner Felt here. Commissioner Honaman here. Chair Bennett here. and uh welcome a mo a motion for I guess the approval of tonight's explosive meeting agenda. [laughter] Motion to approve it. Second. All those in favor say I. I.

I. So moved. Next we have the approval of the prior meeting minutes from September 25th. Motion to approve the meetings from September 25th. the minutes from September 25th. Second. All those in favor say I. I. I. So moved.

All right. Next, we have the community comment period. As I mentioned, similar to the public hearing, this is a chance for anyone who is here in person that'd like to testify about a matter not on tonight's agenda. You have three minutes to do so. You can come up to either podium, state your full name, address. You have three minutes to speak. when the light turns green. When it turns red, we'll ask you to wrap up your comments. Is anyone here for community comment? Thank you. And again, just state your full name and address.

Hi, David Frankle, 4510 Lake View Drive. Uh I was here probably about a year ago under a similar issue, but um I've kind of become the de facto resident ADA advocate. Uh the city seems to be ignoring ADA as much as it can. As you're probably well aware of the US Department of Justice has an agreement with the city of Edina to make the pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks and Grand View ADA compliant. That has to be sent back to the US Department of Justice in the next couple of weeks. What I failed to see is lessons learned from this experiment of trying to build something that isn't ADA compliant. I would suggest following the guidelines from the League of Minnesota cities which the city belongs to and I have the document right here right off their website going beyond ADA compliance to build inclusive accommodating communities. They have a very expens extensive document on their website you can read about ADA compliance. It's disturbing to see very few if any documents coming out of this city that mention ADA. ADA should be the first question you ask of any commercial or public project and I don't see that happening. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind sending that to the planning department so we can uh get that dispersed amongst us, that'd be great. Appreciate the commitment. Anyone else here for uh community comment? Thanks again for being here and your comments. We appreciate it. All right. Next, we have the one and only public hearing. So, the process to expect for a public hearing is when someone wants to do something that doesn't quite jive with the code. They apply for a variance or a deviation. To do so, staff does a bunch of fact uh research and puts together some facts and findings in a staff report. They consolidate that into a presentation that we'll see tonight. [snorts] They provi provide a recommendation for approval or denial. Then we offer a chance for the applicant to provide their own presentation. Then we'll have some question and answers. Then it'll open up to a public hearing. Then we'll bring it back to the commission to deliberate and make a recommendation for approval or denial. So with that, we have a subdivision request for 7235 France Avenue and Planner Teague to discuss it. Take it away.

Thank you. Thank you, chair, members of the commission. This is a site you're all familiar with. It's the Macy's furniture site. Uh it's currently vacant. They have moved into South Dale, but as you recall, last summer the site was reszoned to uh planned unit development. Here's a look at that plan. Uh the the approved plan and reszoning calls for about 572 housing units. There's 8 the existing building is 89,000 square ft. They're putting back 89,000 square feet in a combination of retail uh restaurant and office space. The two apartment buildings would be on along the prominade on the east side and the mixeduse buildings along France. So in the city of Edina the reasonzoning it that's permanent that's part of the code. The site plan that you see those are good for two years that site plan approval. However platts are good for just one year if the plat is not filed with the county. So with this project um the applicant has not yet closed on the property. So it's still owned by Macy's. They still intend to do this development but the plat has expired. So the ask this evening is to um approve that plat once again. So the site exists as one lot today. They're creating one lot for the two apartment buildings and then the two uh mixeduse buildings along France. There's no change to the lot lines. Everything is the same as was approved. Um the one issue is park dedication as was required for the previous approval. they're required to dedicate $5,000 per unit. So, it's about 2.8 million. Uh that would be collected at the time of a building permit uh on each lot. So, with that, staff is recommending approval subject to that one condition um that

you recommend approval to the city council. With that, I can stand for questions and the applicant is here to answer any questions as well.

Thank you, Carrie. We offer chance for the applicant to come forward and speak if there's anything you'd like to add. If not, no worries. Just Okay, I guess turn it over to the rest of the commission. Any questions for Carrier, the applicant? Commissioner Smith. Thank you, Director Teague. Uh, one question for you. The park dedication, would that be an additional park dedication? Um, so when we approve it the the first time there was one and now we're going to it expired now it's a second approval. So does the park dedication happen two times or is it just one time?

It's just the one time. It's the same uh condition that was on the previous um approvals. So yes, it's the same same park dedication requirement. Gotcha. Thank you.

See no other questions. We'll move to the public hearing. uh like the community comment, you have 3 minutes to participate if you'd like to testify. Uh we'll I'll run down some of the instructions for those who are tuning in remotely. Uh if you'd like to participate, please call 3125358110. Enter access code 263023 0448. The password is 5454. and then press star three on your keypad to get in the queue to speak. While you do that, we will turn it over to those who might be in the room because there's a a one minute lag. Uh who might be interested to testify about this matter. Same as community comment. Please come up, state your full name address. You have three minutes to do so. David Franco, 4510 Lake View Drive. I'm not sure if this affects the actual plat, but as you're aware also, there's proposed tunnel under France Avenue, and I've yet to see a rendering that would come close to being an ADA compliant ramp that would come out of this tunnel into this particular development. I'm not sure if there's a correct rendering, an engineering drawing that shows the ramp. You may be familiar. An ADA ramp has to be at 3% grade or less. If you're familiar with a tunnel under 70th Street over by um Amonson Drive, that ramp is very long. And I don't see how that particular ramp's going to fit into this development to be ADA compliant. But my point is there's no actual rendering and engineering diagram, architectural diagram that shows that ramp. A staircase is not ADA compliant. So I before you approve this, I'd like to see how this ramp would fit

into this development that's accurate, not a little video that's animated that shows a staircase. Thank you. Thank you once again. See no one else here in person. Turn it over to the queue. Is anyone there? There is nobody in the queue to speak. So I believe it's safe to proceed. Yep. So it's been a minute. I welcome a motion to close a public hearing from anyone. Motion to close the public hearing. Second. All those in favor say I. I.

I. So move. Public hearing is closed. Now I take it back to the planning commission to deliberate over this one. Would welcome a motion. Also I'll motion to recommend the city council approve this subdivision. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor say I. I. I. Opposed. Nay. Motion carries. So is that 8 to one? Yep.

Congratulations once again, Dja Vu. And that concludes our public hearings for this evening. And now we're on to chair and member comments. Thank you very much.

Uh, any comments from any Yep. Commissioner Smith? Hello. That was a pretty quick meeting and I was I was told I should talk quickly. [laughter] So, um, I know uh this is about the ADU ordinance. Um, I know we passed the ADU ordinance I want to say almost a year ago. Um, and part of that process, I know we wanted to just check in on it to see how things are going, see the status of it. So, what I wanted to do today was just share a little update on on on where it sits today. Um, how much is in play. So, right now, uh, it's very very modest. We had one ADU completed since the update passed. Uh, and that's the one that came before us, so we had to do a slight variance on it. So, that one got um uh approved and and that's in play. We have two uh permits issued for ADUs. Um that's part of a tear down rebuild. And so, we're seeing developers now, you know, kind of catching on that the market might be looking for something like this in the city, which is a good sign. And then we have two applications submitted but not yet issued. Um so, it's very modest, right? And I wanted to share that because I know um from a city council perspective when we were first debating ADUs, everyone was so concerned that it's just going to take over and the whole city would transform into something completely different. And based on the research that we've done, right, looking at neighboring cities, um talking to experts, talking to folks who actually do this kind of stuff, we know it's going to be very modest, right? Um the markets might change in the future, right? And folks, as this gets marketed more and folks realize that they could do this, you might see an uptick, but it's uh very modest today. Um and based

on, you know, just conversations I've had with uh city staff, um the ordinance seems to be working how we intended it to, right? The way how we designed it, um it's it's not getting a whole ton of uh variances requested, although we had one, but the tear down rebuilds, we didn't have to get involved with that. And so it seems like it's coming along in the direction that we that we uh want it. So I just wanted to share that update with the group. Um also too, I think um it's just a good practice for us like if we pass something and we uh get it approved that we always check in on it to see how it's going, make sure it's working as intended. Kind of helps with that transparency and our oversight. The last step I wanted to to share is if somehow we could, you know, put this in some kind of communication, get it out to the city, get in like a newspaper so that folks who were super in interested and and concerned could just know that, hey, you know, we're on top of it. We're watching it. It's very modest. Um just to make sure that it's really transparent on on what's happening at the passage of the ordinance. Just want to get some some thoughts from this group on um if we could communicate it broadly or any other thoughts you have on how we could keep on top of the ordinances that we pass and any specific comments on the 80s.

Thank you for sharing, Commissioner Smith. Great update. Any any ideas for Commissioner Smith? Thank you for sharing it. I think it was great and necessary and and much appreciated and I and I also think um like a letter to the editor of the Suncurrent or something like that. I think you had mentioned that as a great idea um short and sweet just an update for for everybody keeps everybody educated. So it's a great idea.

I'd say otherwise just keep your ear to the ground. I've had a few people ask me about ADUs and I pointed to the city website before already. So, if you hear people talking about it or anything, just offer up information, but

All right. Thank you. That's it.

One more. Um, I kind of wanted to visit, you know, when we did the ADUs before, I kept talking about the 18 foot maximum height and how that would um not be conducive to some of those lots that are slightly smaller. And because it makes it difficult for those lots that are smaller and they have detached garages, if they're willing to rebuild their garage, they wouldn't necessarily be able to put anything on the second floor of their garage um because of the height limitations and the thickness of construction. And I'm doing one in Golden Valley right now and they have a 12 foot um maximum plate height. You can put the floor wherever you want, but the tallest horizontal member double top plate is at 12 feet and it allows for a story and a half. And it makes it really easy for someone to put an ADU over a garage. And the only reason I bring it up is because when I've talked with clients in the past, um, some are more than willing to go for variances and some are a little bit more reticent to go for them. I've had people say, "No, I don't want to do that before." when they had a legitimate reason to go for one. Um, so it might not be a terrible idea to study that a little bit because I think a lot of neighborhoods close in, especially on the east side of Adina all the way up and down France Avenue might benefit from something like that. Claire, could you clarify what that means? Um, and how a story and a half not a half person. So, how does that make additional living space, I guess?

So, I'll show you this. I've got a graphic. So, this is this is um a story and a half is like an old kind of Kate Cod house where it looks like a one-story with dormers up on and that's considered a half story. So, the floor is being measured at 12 feet. The floor of the half story,

the tallest the highest horizontal member is at 12 feet. So you can put the ceiling of the garage at 8 ft. You can put the floor of the ADU at 9 ft. The sidewalls can go up to 12 ft. And as they angle up, there's more room upstairs. With an 18 ft, if you put the garage ceiling at 8 ft, the floor at 9 ft, and the peak of the roof at 18 ft minus the structure, you only have about seven feet of clearance. You just have like a little hallway down the middle.

Oh. So with the little taller plate height, you have the ability to do nice little living space on the second floor. Well, not really second floor, half store. So I I just think it's something worth considering.

I thank you for sharing. And I know when we presented it originally to the city council, there was interest to like revisit and tell them how things were after about 2 years and some of like some of the kind like the flip side of what you said is it's not so scary, but the reality is if there's only one approved in a year, are we too restrictive? you know, so kind of to Mayweather's point, so it's something at least by this time next year, we should at least have an update ready for the city council with maybe next steps, if any, and things that touch on that. Certainly.

Wonder Carrie, have you gotten a lot of inquiries about these and and they're they're saying it's too restrictive or has there just not been a whole lot of interest? Uh, we have had inquiries um not heard um that were too restrictive. So, I guess I haven't haven't heard that um that that's an issue at this point, but it's um I think I think it's a good plan to give it another year and see where we're at and maybe consider some of those changes. I don't think Edina is uncommon. Other cities have adopted this ordinance and they've been slow to build elsewhere as well.

I've spoke with the chief building official probably quarterly and most of the the challenge that they see is like people are interested just cost number one and then just building code not even the height. It's just like to make a true ADU that's not a detached structure is very difficult. like having fire rated separated walls, utilities within your structure that's existing is a challenge. So like that's building code, not really anything we can do about it with the zoning ordinance piece. Yeah.

Yeah. I think financing can be a problem too because banks often don't know what to what to do with them. But Carrie, related to what you were just saying, do we track inquiries? Like, so a year from now, we could follow up with those people and say, "Hey, why didn't you do something or what was the obstacle or you just lost interest?" Yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't know how many I should have had that number for tonight, but we do um track it. It's not a large number. Okay. Thank you. Great question, David. Thank you for sharing. That's great. You have what you need? Yep. All right. Any other chair member comments?

Just have a quick question for Carrie. Actually, it's kind of random. Um, I'd seen a memo about the city council changing uh community comment really around giving your address publicly and they were going to be start passing around slips of paper and stuff. Are we going to be adopting that here? And are we changing our method for how we do community comment in public hearings? I have not heard that we're going to be making some changes, but it might make sense to be consistent with what the council's doing. Yeah. Okay. I just I'd seen that randomly recently and I thought thought it had taken effect already at the city council level, so wasn't sure what was going on here, but yeah.

Yeah. Thanks for sharing. It's one of those like standard operating procedures that you kind of just haven't really thought about like why do we do that? Anyone else? All right, staff comments. My only update is that you will have a more full agenda at your next meeting. Um, at least two variances and a potential sketch plan. That's it. that motion to adjurnn. There we go. Second. All those in favor say I. I. Meetings been adjourned. Thank you everyone.