Planning Commission - workshop

All right, try it now. There we go. You're good.

At this time, good afternoon. We'd like to call to order the HVAC County Planning Commission for May the 14th, 2016, 2026. I have a work session. I was in here today. We don't have a regular meeting today. We have just a work session. So it's time we call the meeting to order. How you doing? We are in order now to guest speakers. We'll go into our old business, old business. And on today's old business, we have three items. We have update and discussion regarding the impact of P30. We have a continued discussion regarding the proposed subdivision ordinance. We have a review of zoning county map to establish appropriate area for denser subdivisions. no new business, so we started item A, the update and discussion regarding our impact fee study, and I think this is what Doc had before us here and there.

Yeah, so I already emailed it to y'all. Just to break it down, general summary, the impact fee is designed for the Merriweather and County Line districts, which makes up about 70% of where the growth happens. So that's basically the Highway 25 corridor and all of the Meriwether District or District 5 and a little bit of District 2. The proposal is a 0.25% impact fee. The reason I went with a percent instead of a flat fee is since we're applying it to all new construction, I didn't think it would be fair to charge someone who's building, you know, a man cave in their backyard or a mother-in-law suite the same thing as a developer who's building, you know, a row of townhouses or something. So by doing it at a quarter of a percent, it would be, you know, based on the valuation of the project as a whole. rather than a flat rate. There are other legal ways to structure it, but I think that's the best fit for us. And obviously every five years we're required to review and update this. So if our projected revenues fall short or drastically exceed our expectations, then we can go in and adjust that up and down, you know, as needed. I estimate that given the average of the last 10 years, we would collect about $137,500 per year, and I primarily am focusing it on an EMS substation. about 700,000 over five years between now and the next review, so I didn't feel like I needed to point another project out specifically at this time. But once we figure out how we're going to fund it, whether we're going to issue a geo bond or whether we're going to borrow money to build it, however we decide to fund it, if we're going to use the impact fee to make the payment, then we might have leftover funds and we might have to address, you know, whatever remaining funds at that time. The only real caveat in the law is it has to be an impact fee eligible in the districts that's paying the fee, and it has to be on our capital improvement plan. If in five years, you know, we've got an extra $200,000 sitting in the pot, then we would have to pick another project on the CIP or we'd have to amend the CIP and add that in. We have also spoken with the City of North Augusta about applying our impact fee. in the portion of Edgefield County that is also in the city of North Augusta. That looks like it's going favorable right now, which that's also the Merriweather area. Our EMS project would apply to them. Our recreation, not necessarily. But our EMS serves North Augusta for their portions that's in Edgefield County. So 100% it could apply to what we're funding at the moment. I tried to keep, well, I originally had a really long document, and as y'all know, it's 57 pages, because when I first designed it, I ended up putting all that data and stuff in the actual document, and I took all that out and put that in appendices. So if you want to look at the data, you know, the census data, all that stuff, it's in these appendices, and that Well, really, the first 15 pages, if you don't count the title page and the table of contents and all that, that's really the meat of the study. County Council will take it up. They've already looked at the CIP, and they will adopt both, basically, at the same time. Do y'all have any questions, comments, concerns, changes, recommendations? Y'all have, of course, all the way until Council sees it. You can call your councilman if you have a concern between now and then, or you can email it to me. But if y'all have anything you want me to note now, I'm happy to address it.

The five districts, are they, how are they going with our districts, council districts? So they don't line up with our council districts? I know you have, they have drawn, we got school districts. We got the school district and the county council district. In fact, all these three are different, drawn differently.

That is correct. They are all different. And I chose the fire district for two reasons. One, the fire districts are controlled by the fire board, and they have not been redrawn in a very, very long time. So they are stable districts, in other words. And two, in our building department software, And I'll give you an example. It might load. Hey, don't look at me. I have so many passwords. You can't expect me to remember everything all the time. I think that's it, though. No, don't say that. So, if we just, I'm just going to pick a random permit. Fire district is one of the things that we have to report in our census report to the state. And so in our software, we actually track the fire districts specifically. So I can query our system to just show permits that are in that specific fire district, which makes it very easy for me to make sure that I'm only applying an impact fee for the chosen district. In the actual study, You probably also noticed that I said, you know, if you need to refine the scope later, we can create custom districts for the impact fees, and then we would just have to add that to our permitting software to make that work. But I chose fire districts because they're stable, and we already track everything by fire district. So it's just very easy for me to do.

So roughly up to 25, about Whitty, Trenton, and what the other one is? County line. County line, right? Tie in together roughly. I don't know exactly, just roughly.

So this is the Merriweather Fire District, and that's the county line fire district. So county line stops near Brim Oak, just past Brim Oak. So here's Brim Oak. Um, that's the industrial park property right there. So that's kind of where it stops, but it does, you know, it slides in and out in a few areas. Um, but obviously this portion of 25 is busy. And then all of Mary, the Merriweather fire district, which is most of Mount vintage down. I think there's one road, Utah Springs in, in Mount vintage that's in the Edgefield fire district. Um, Yeah, so that part is in the Edgefield Fire District and everything else in Mount Vintage is in Meriwether. So basically it's from Mount Vintage all the way to North Augusta. And then these portions that are not showing, that is North Augusta city limits that are inside Edgefield County. which, I mean, y'all know how many houses they're building. So I don't have to say anything there.

Are you allowed to charge an individual a certain percentage, but a business or developer a higher percentage?

You cannot. So I used the percentage-based fee because that will automatically adjust the fee according to the cost of the project. So obviously, if you come in with a $13 million industry, that's going to be a much higher fee than if you built a $100,000 honeymoon suite.

And that fee is collected when they apply for a permit?

Building permit. That's correct. And only on new construction. So like if you renovate your home, that's not considered impact under state law. So it will be only new construction. So a new housing development. Now, if you decide to cut two acres of land out for your son and he decided to build a house on it, that is an impact and he would be forced to pay that as well.

I was just reading through the document. In the introduction, I know you specifically mentioned our need for EMS, which is true, but I just feel like at the beginning of the document, maybe we should just, it should be more general at those first two paragraphs. And then as you explain why we would do impact fees and the legalities and all of that, I would just include everything that they can be used for. And then later in the document where you talk about how at this point in time our priority is the EMS station. Because when I started reading the document, If I were reading it as an outsider, I would think, okay, we're doing this just for this EMS station in those first two paragraphs.

It just seemed like this is just for the EMS station and not. So you mean in the executive summary?

Yeah, just in the first two paragraphs of the document. I would make that general and then drill it down to the specific EMS station.

Could you do that?

Later in the document. I'm just saying the impression that it gave in those first two paragraphs.

I kind of wrote the executive summary to be a summary of the entire document. So what I could do is instead I can bring Chapter 1, Chapter 2 introduction and put it in the executive summary spot. and then take executive summary and put it in the Chapter 2 spot. The only reason I wanted the executive summary is because there's going to be some people that don't want to read it. And so I kind of wanted a one-page, this is what this document does altogether. You know, this is a full summary of the whole thing. Right. You know, that way if you read nothing else, you would know what's going on if you just read that one page. But I can put the introduction chapter, which is more general, ahead of that one.

Yeah, that makes more sense to me. You know, create the basket and then put the details, you know, in further down so that someone that picks it up knows that it can be used for those other things, not just that EMS station. Yeah, the EMS station is our priority.

So I'll bring introduction and legal authority. I'll make that chapter one, and then I'll make the executive summary chapter two. And then that way, the chapter one introduction kind of gives you, you know, what an impact fee is, how are they legal, exemptions, limitations, et cetera. And then you'll have an executive summary after that that tells you what the rest of the document is. I can do that. That's not a problem.

Yeah, that would just make more sense for me. My second thing was the percentage that you came up with and all of the numbers. Are we limited by what our priority need is, the EMS station and that cost? Is that what limited you to the quarter percent?

No. Interesting. So I chose the quarter percent based off of what I want to fund. So it does correlate. There has to be a nexus and there's a chapter in there for that.

Right.

But there's, I mean, there's no hard limit on the impact fee we can set. It just depends on what we're trying to you know, how many projects we're trying to fund. You do have to, you can't just say I'm going to gather the impact fee and it's going to sit in the account. You know, it's not really debt service. So you have to have it appropriated to something.

Right. So it seemed like with the projections and that percentage, we were making sure we're covering the costs for the EMS station?

So, I designed it to be a 10-year sort of program, you know, just figuring that if we financed it, we would probably finance it for 10 years. And by year eight, we will have recovered, we would have covered the funds to completely pay for the substation if it costs a million dollars, which is also a rough estimate. I mean, we could spend 1.4. If we wanted something nicer, we could spend 800,000. If if we want something cheaper. But I figured a million dollars year seven or year eight is about when we'll hit that. And then we really will need to address that in year five during the state required review. And we will either have to pick another project or we will have to adjust the fee.

OK. I guess that was my question is are we with the quarter percent, are we giving ourselves enough margin there

Yes. So basically the way I initially calculated it up was I used common bank rates for just a regular bank loan to see what the interest rates and the yearly payment would be. And then that's how I kind of calculated that nexus between the two. But we could also issue geo bonds. I mean, there's a lot of counties have a lot of financing options, basically. And, I mean, honestly, we could just pay for it out of general fund and then pay ourselves back. But without knowing the exact interest rate of the funding mechanism, it's not really possible for me to calculate a perfect percentage. But I chose 0.25% because that will cover a 6% interest rate.

Okay. And that's assuming growth at the same rate that we've experienced, right?

So I use the average of the last 10 years.

Okay.

Now, obviously, some of those years drug that down a little, but the last 10 years have been the busiest, I mean, since the market crash, basically. So we are fully recovered from the crash and Altogether, over the entire period since 2008 to 2009, we're close to, I want to say, 30%.

Is this countywide or is this just in the Merriweather District?

So most of the county, the Johnston area, north side, west side.

Am I paying 0.25% for Merriweather?

If you're in Meriwether, yes. If you're in County Line, yes. If you're in Northside, absolutely not. So the state law requires there to be a direct connection between who's paying the fee and who's getting the service. So, for example, if we wanted to shift some of these funds to the EMS headquarters that we're building, well, the EMS headquarters is to serve the entire county. So we would then have to do a study. We would have to study it and break it down to what percentage of of Meriwether and County Line are making use of it, and then we would have to adjust our fee to match that. So they would basically say, if we wanted to give $200,000 of impact fee funding to the main station, then we would say, all right, well, they use 75%, so we're going to collect 75% of $200,000 from the impact fee. You see, there has to be a correlation. You can't say, well, we're just going to pay for it with those impact fees. It has to have a direct connection to the people paying the fee.

Does the state limit us on how often we can revisit that fee? So if in two years' time we see it's too much, we can adjust it down. If it's not enough, we can adjust it up. So we're not limited that it has to be every five years.

So the only legal requirement for changing either the CIP or the impact fees ordinance is an ordinance to amend. So there's no time limit. It doesn't have to be set for a specific period of time. Y'all would basically just take it up and say, you know, here's the yearly report from last year. I don't think we've collected enough money. I want to up it to 0.33%, and then we send that to council, and they do an amendment.

Okay.

But that can be done, you know, it takes basically four months to do, but other than that, there's no limit on how many times you can do it. And the growth rate for 2024 is 15%, but obviously that's a complete fallacy. The 2020 census was... Not correct. Yeah, it was, y'all know. They didn't go door to door. They didn't call people. They didn't really do anything because the whole COVID lockdowns and all that stuff. The 2010 wasn't particularly great either. But I would say that between 2018 to now is where you've actually seen that 14.9%. And I would say that that's fairly close to accurate. Now, it could also go the other way. you know, we could have a complete development drop and then we have to revisit it because of that, you know. So I don't think we'll actually spend any of the impact fee funds until after the first year. We'll probably want until the main station is started and then we have a good idea of what the actual income is going to be. Everything in the study currently is is math done from my desk. I mean, we don't know 100% real world what that income is going to be. So we'll probably give it a year to find out what it's going to do before we decide how we want to finance it.

So the custom impact fee districts, is that typically smaller than, like right now we're going by fire district, correct, for the impact fee?

Yeah, we're going by fire district because we track that directly already.

So the custom district, is that typically a smaller area that's designated if we went with the custom district?

So it doesn't have to be. I mean, you can make it as big or as small as you want. You just have to show that the project you are attaching to that area benefits that whole area. So obviously, you wouldn't want to make one from Johnston all the way to Merriweather because there's no way you're going to build anything that's going to benefit that whole area.

I would just be, my only concern is if we create something like that and it's too small where we're looking at another EMS station in the future and it needs to be in that custom district, but there's no land there, but maybe there's a parcel close to that district that's two or three parcels out of the district. Would that prevent us from being able to to do it. So, I'm saying if you, if we had a custom district that was too small, we might.

It could, that could happen.

Miss a parcel that was really best for the project.

So, the only thing that I would say about creating a custom district is we would need to use, well, hold on, it's loading. It's kind of slow. We would need to use very specific data to find out where our heaviest areas of growth are. And if this thing loads, I can highlight it. So you could create custom districts that are, you know, capturing Edgefield and Trenton. You could have a custom district that captures all of the main areas in Merriweather. And then you could cut out the rural areas like, you know, some of Merriweather, if you get up past – What's it called now? It used to be called Sportsman's Corner. Yeah, it's not anymore. But anyway, y'all know where I'm talking about. Sportsman's Corner North. Yeah, that's not likely to be developed. It's not. You're not going to see a lot up there. So you could cut that out with a custom district. So that's kind of the benefit of creating a custom district. But that's also kind of the threat you face by creating a custom district.

So you said when they pull the permits, when they pay this, they're going to pull the permit, $200,000 home, end up only costing $150,000. What's the deal then? Is Edgewood County going to refund me?

Absolutely not. So if you look in, yeah, you don't even get to set how much it costs you.

So I don't know if I don't get to set what the house is going to cost.

Because we use a national scale. So, in Edgefield County, your construction costs are determined by the International Code Council building valuation data. So it takes the type of construction, and it takes the use of the structure, and it gives you a square footage price, and that's in one of the appendices. You can go look at it. And so, you know, if it's single-family residential that's type 5B construction, it's going to be $170 a square foot, and that's the value that's set. Because in the state of South Carolina, you know, and this has been a big argument in building permits for a long time, people who build their own home, well, I'm doing the labor, so I shouldn't, so that shouldn't be included. Well, in the state of South Carolina, it's illegal for me not to include it. I have to include labor even if you do it all yourself and drive every nail yourself. I still have to use a contractor's price. So, to get away from people saying, well, you know, somebody donated lumber to me or somebody donated wire to me or whatever. To get rid of all that, we just go by a straight, you know, it's 2,200 square feet. It's this dollar amount per square foot that gets updated every three months. That's the value. Tax systems are kind of the same way. You might have built your house 30 years ago and it cost you $85,000, but to build that same house now might be $350,000. That's just the way the market works.

Could you increase that quarter percent to add in some of the other projects that aren't in our capital projects plan? They aren't the priority, but maybe they're one or two below.

If they're in the capital improvement plan and they're eligible for impact fees in that area, yes, the fee can be adjusted to include new projects. however many we add in there. But of course, county council wants me to focus our funds on getting the Meriwether station built. So that's why I only chose that one because that's what they want us to do right now is let's get it started. Let's start bringing revenue in. Let's focus on the one need we absolutely have to do. And then once we see how it starts to work, Then we'll branch out from there to include other things. And I don't think my map is going to load. I was going to show you on our GIS map where all of the permits get issued, but apparently this computer is not connected to the GIS server, so it's not going to do that. So I can't do that. But I can pull up on GIS. I can pinpoint every permit that's issued by the type of permit it is. So if I want to look up every new construction permit on the map, I can drop a dot for every new home, every new shed, new building, new mobile home, whatever it is. If it's new, I can drop a pin on it, and you can kind of see the growth over time. You can choose year. You can do it by year. You can do it however you want to. And then if you were going to make custom districts, that's the data you would use to calculate that out. But if you do use a custom district, like I said, somebody could come by 200 acres, 10 feet on the other side of that line and put in 500 houses and you can't charge them a penny. So that's the downside. And I think that for the most part, the Meriwether, I mean, you all know Meriwether is, That's where construction's at. County line in Merriweather is 70% of our new homes are built there or have been. They'll run out of lots eventually. Now, I will say that if we do something like we want to fund a sheriff's substation, for example. We can't charge that impact fee for North Augusta residents because they have their own police service. Same thing for fire. We couldn't do an impact fee for fire for the North Augusta side because North Augusta provides its own fire service. So another reason I focused on EMS in that area is working with North Augusta however many houses they're building that are on the Edgefield County side, if it is an EMS fee, we can charge it for them too because they use our EMS. And we're currently, the Meriwether Fire Department is kind enough to give us a bay and a room in, Aretha is dying to talk to me apparently. They still have us up there in the Meriwether. Yes, they're still in. Yeah, that's work stuff she forgot. I was in a planning commission meeting apparently. But I don't even know where I was. Where was I? Last thing I see.

I think you were talking about you would have to carve out what the city of North Augusta has.

Yes, so we can't charge anything that they provide. We can only charge what we provide. And in the Meriwether Fire Department currently, we have one bay and one set of bedrooms. Now, obviously, EMS works 24-hour shift. So, we have to have beds, we have to have a kitchen, we have to have a living room. You know, they got to have a whole living space, plus somewhere to put the truck, plus somewhere to store narcotics and all the other drugs and stuff that they have to use. If we want to expand in Merriweather and have a second truck running just Merriweather, currently we can't. We have nowhere to put them. They got nowhere to sleep. So that's why the Merriweather substation is so highly prioritized.

Where is that plan to go?

Do they know? Well, we haven't bought the property yet. So it will be in this area down here.

And I have looked.

Just take this. This whole exit one area is where we want it. Obviously, they run a lot for the portion that's in North Augusta. And the county main station is slated to be. I can't even see it.

Built right there. Right there.

Right across from Van Road. So this is where the main station will be, which is also a great deal closer to the County Line Merriweather area because, well, that's where a lot of our population lives.

Near the industrial park? Yes, that's the industrial park.

This is the property that Piedmont Technical College wants to locate on. the future and this is van road yeah there's a there's a you can't see it because of the trees that are there but maybe if i zoom in enough yeah there's a curb cut already existing directly across from van so we want to do ems station and ems only access right there for them and that'll be that'll be a huge station that's eight bays you know so But the substation, we want to at least have enough room for two ambulances and two full crews down near exit one or somewhere in that area. If anybody decides to build something down there, I'll probably harass them to give me an acre or two. And if not, we'll have to purchase some property. And there's also a few properties that are kind of in the city of North Augusta, but they're not being developed yet. They're not really good for development, I would say. We could also acquire a piece of property like that and use it for one building. Just because it's not something you could build houses on doesn't mean you can't put one station on it. So we may look at some of that. Now, further down, like across the street, this big property here, that's a land conservation, so we can't build anything on it. I mean, it would be nice to be able to acquire a piece of that to build on because there's a doctor's office and a pediatrician care and all that stuff right there, but you can't. It's land trust. But we could get something like that piece of property, get a piece of that. But that's where we're looking, is somewhere in this area. Any more questions? All right.

And this next one's her baby, so I'm going to let her drive the car. And I'll edit things that y'all want in real time.

I know y'all hadn't had time to read the documents, but we wanted to go over it with you together, and that way we can, like you said, we'll fill in the blanks, we'll scratch stuff off, and that way we can just go over the document line by line and make corrections as we go, and then the next time we meet, I'm hoping that we'll meet with the county council and we'll have a document much the way y'all want it, and then y'all can go over it with them again. If they have anything additional, they can add it, take away, and y'all can hash it out at that time.

So, really, y'all can just start on section C, general requirements of subdivisions.

And I took notes from our last meeting we had. And it's wove in there. So when we get to it, if you want to elaborate even more, we can do some. We can make whatever changes. I'll make notes as we go along.

So the first thing, phasing plan. Y'all have all been on the board long enough to know that sometimes subdivisions come in and they say things like, well, we're only going to do phase one and we'll bring phase two back at a later date and yada, yada, yada. This basically says, no, you got to come to us with all the phases. You have to show us what those phases are, and all of those phases have to be approved at the same time, whether you build them or don't build them. And this is because It's harder for us as staff to track something after so many years. You know, you can take some of the older subdivisions in Edgefield County that are very well established, you know, like Currytown Station or something like that. You know, if there had been a phase two plan in 1988, us here in 2026, the employees we have now would have no knowledge of that without digging through tremendous amounts of paperwork trying to find it. And so if somebody came up and said, well, you know, there was a phase two plan and we just never did it, but we want to start doing it now. You know, me personally, if that happened today, I would say, well, you're going back to the planning commission and we're going to treat it like a new subdivision because there's no way for me to know what happened. I mean, I was four. You know, there's no way I could possibly know. So, that basically makes that impossible. So, you got to get approval for everything up front, and you need to show us your phasing plan up front and get it approved.

Can you put time limits on it? Like, you have to have phase two going by X, Y, Z date, or it expires and you have to come back?

So, you can. We have a general rule. that approve land development or subdivision after two years that doesn't get started. Now, that's not saying, you know, if you start it and you're just not complete in two years, you're still good. But if two full years go by and you didn't even start it, then that nullifies the approval of the Planning Commission or from me if I approved it. So whatever it is, if you don't do anything in two years, that's no longer approved. That's no longer legal. You would have to go back through whatever process, whether it's a land development, subdivision, whatever.

So if we approve, say, four phases, and it takes them 10 years to complete phase one, before they start phase two.

They probably shouldn't have started.

Well.

I'm sorry.

Well, I mean, some subdivisions take, I mean, Cooper Place was started in, what, 2005, 2006? They're still building in there, right? Yeah. So we're at 20 years.

Right. They're still building.

So if it was in phases and they didn't start phase two for 10 years.

Yeah. And I understand that. But when we say start and what most people think of a start is not the same thing. So infrastructure is where we start. So you start cutting roads. You start putting water lines in. You start doing all of those sorts of things. We consider that started. You don't have a single lot in there to sell yet. But the minute you turn dirt, you start it. And, like, I'll use Windsor's example because they've had, what, five phases? Is that how many phases they were? Yeah, I think five. I think five phases. You know, they went through – and got all five phases approved at once, and they went in and did their infrastructure up front. Now, they only built houses one phase at a time and opened up new phases or new products as they became popular or however you want to say it. But their infrastructure got put in. We consider all five of those phases started, even if it doesn't have a single unit in it. Now, we don't consider it substantially complete until you hit a 60% occupancy rate. So 60% of your buildings have to be COed, basically. And then some of the other things in here, right-of-way plans, road plans, and like the road plans, they have to meet the requirements of our road ordinance. You can't skip over the other land development regulations. Road names, addressing, all basic stuff. The lots section, so The size, shape, and orientation of lots shall be appropriate for the location of the proposed subdivision and for the type of development contemplated and shall consist of the following standards. We use section 24174. Y'all can change that if you have better ideas. We use a 1-5 ratio generally countywide, meaning you can't have it more than five times longer than it is wide. So if it's 100 foot wide, you can't have over 500 feet long. So it just keeps the shape, basically.

You're talking about the lot shape?

Yes. So that you don't get, you know, a 50-foot wide lot that's 670 feet long. But like I said, that is our general rule through the county. You can also change that if you have ideas of, you know, how you want it to. You can say, you know, If you want to widen the road frontage in a subdivision for each lot, you can change that to 1-3. You can adjust that how you want to for this ordinance. That's why I highlighted 24-174. That's just our general county-wide regulation. You don't have to stick with that. You can choose something specific if you want to modify it. The reason you may want to do that would be You know, if you make lots wider, then it's less likely houses will be closer together. And you can also do that through zoning. So you can go in and say, you know what, we're not going to have any five-foot setbacks on the side anywhere in Edgefield County. You can say we're going to mandate 15-foot side setbacks countywide. You can do that through zoning, and you don't have to touch it in here because then it would apply whether it was a subdivision or not a subdivision. But obviously, if you want to space things out, then either lot width or setbacks are the way to do that.

And we do that through the county-wide zoning, you're saying?

So you can do that through zoning, and that would apply to any zoned area of the county. Now, most of the unzoned areas of the county are agriculture, and there are enormous lots. But that doesn't mean somebody couldn't come in, and the only rule in place then would be You know, 24-174, which is lot proportion.

Well, if we did it through county-wide zoning, that would affect major subdivisions and PDs?

That's correct. Well, unless council decided to waive that requirement for the PD. For the PD. Obviously, council can waive any requirement of our ordinance for a PD.

Because I feel like, I mean, riding through neighborhoods like Windsor, For the fire safety of our citizens, those homes being 20 feet apart, to me, is a fire hazard. If one catches on fire, it's going to affect the homes on each side of it, not just fire, but the heat.

Right. So I will say that a PD, of course, is a custom zoning district. So that's a negotiation between council and said developer. But a lot ratio or a zoning would fall under the same limitation. If council chooses not to mandate that for that specific development, then they could waive it. But no matter what they ask for, county council is not under an obligation to approve any kind of plan development. So, you know, you can always take your concerns directly to council if there's a plan development and say, hey, look, I'm not recommending this because I think those lots are way too close to each other. And then council can go to the developer and say, you know, 50 foot lots are unacceptable. They need to be 75 foot, you know, or whatever. I mean, I'm just making numbers up, but you get the idea. Now, if they want to do a major subdivision in the county, not a PD, then the minimum setback required by the zoning district therein will automatically apply. So if you have a 15-foot side setback, that means the houses can't be more than 30 foot with, you know, there has to be 30 foot between the two houses. If you did it 20, it'd have to be 40, et cetera, et cetera. And then if you set a different lot ratio, then that would also change, you know, whether they could have a 75-foot lot or a 150-foot lot or a 200-foot lot, you know, you could use lot ratios to change that.

So can we put a note that we bring that?

Yeah, so I already highlighted that one as an item of discussion. Okay. Because when she originally did all this and I was reformatting it and going through it, I threw that in there as a placeholder because we already have an ordinance for it. But I knew that would be a topic y'all might want to discuss. That's why I went ahead and noted it. And a lot of this other stuff, you know, is 911 stuff, like we don't want common names. We don't want, you know, we want things to be We don't want 62 James Drives in Edgefield County. You have to use original names, stuff like that, so that when a dispatch sends out an EMS or fire or police or whoever, they know where they're going. So there's a lot of stuff in there for that. Water and sewer supply. Now this was something that was requested by Tiffany. Of course, you know, South Carolina Department of Environmental Services approves all water, sewer, environmental, et cetera, et cetera. But over a certain size, Tiffany wanted to see a requirement for it to be mandated it be on water and sewer. So I made a little chart, you know, number of lots, water and sewer requirement. If you're less than 50, you can use a septic tank and a well if you have the appropriate size lots, et cetera. And that's to prevent us from accidentally preventing subdivisions like Little Horse Creek. You know, it's a single wide dirt road that goes in. The lots are five-plus acres. You know, there's no real reason to mandate that be on water and sewer. But if you want to build Windsor, yeah, you need water and sewer. You can't put that many wells and separate tanks in one small area. You would suck the aquifers dry and cause an environmental disaster at some point. So if it's 51 or more lots, you got to have water and sewer, period.

So are we able to put a max amount of houses per

So, no, not really. You can't say we won't have, we won't accept any more than a thousand homes in Edgefield County in one subdivision. You can't really do that because the developer has the right, as long as they're obeying our zoning, you know, if they buy 10,000 acres and want to build their own city, You know, that's legal in the state of South Carolina. You can do that if you have the money and resources to do so. But what we can say is you're not going to have a lot smaller than half an acre anywhere in there. You know, we can do that. But that's not really the number of units. That's the density, basically, of it.

Okay. Where it's kind of vague, can we put a specific plot size to prevent that high density?

Okay, so the subdivision ordinance, you could make a chart and have different requirements for different size subdivisions. But the goal is not to prevent high density. There may be areas, you know, if they're building right outside the town of Edgefield, you might want more density than you do if they're building, you know, next to the golf course, for example. So you don't want to really limit and say, well, we don't want apartments to ever be a thing. I mean, there's a time and a place for high density, and there's a time and a place where you do not want high density.

And you can do that in your zone.

Yeah, and it largely is controlled by zoning. You know, there are zoning districts where multifamily is not allowed, period. You can't do that. You know, townhouses are not allowed, period. You can't do that. But that's more zoning than the subdivision regulations. The subdivision regulations is more if you're going to do a major subdivision, these are the things in addition to all of the zoning and conditional use regulations you have to do. So you still have to obey all of the zoning regulations. This does not exempt you from any of that. So if you're building in a, like if you're going to build a subdivision in a general commercial zone, for example, minimum lot size is half an acre. That still applies. This does not change that. If you're doing it in RR, it's still a one acre minimum lot size. If you're doing it in RA, it's still a two acre minimum lot size. That zone, that overall zoning district will apply no matter what. These rules are in addition to those rules. Hydrants, I just referenced another chapter because we already have a section. Is the number of lots, that number dead set or can that be changed? Oh, yeah, you can change it. So if you don't want to have a water and sewer requirement until you hit 100 lots, you can do that. If you want it to be 25 lots, you can do that. I mean, you can set the number to whatever you want. I chose 50 because I figure over 50 is where you start getting concern about the size of the subdivision. You know, if you drop off an eight-lot subdivision on my desk, that doesn't frighten me. You drop off a 600-lot subdivision on my desk, Now I'm investing time, effort, and energy. And then open space, green space. So I basically said, you know, if you're building a very large lot subdivision, again, like Little Horse Creek or something like that, I can understand, you know, if you're buying a lot that's seven acres, you don't really need green space. You bought your green space. So there's no sense in making you put a green space requirement in a subdivision of that type. But if you're getting down to half acre and smaller lots, okay, well, you need some common areas to have some sort of, you know, recreation, walkability, whatever you want to call it. So then once you drop down to that size, a 30% requirement for green space comes into effect. And you can modify that. I chose half an acre. You can go to an acre, acre and a half. I mean, you can kind of do whatever you want to. But I chose half an acre because 20,000 square foot yard is pretty good yard space. But you get lower than that and you start talking about really small yards, you need to start thinking about where are the kids going to play.

Should we add language in there where the utility easements and stormwater ponds are not included and the buffers are not included in that green space?

So I believe I believe I did put something of that nature in there.

I didn't see it when I read it.

I know you did because I know you talked about it.

Yeah, I talked about it. I don't know where I put it. And it even might be in a different ordinance. It might be in definitions, actually. I wrote, where did I put things?

I don't remember seeing it. I mean, I didn't get to read all this before we got started. I read all of it, but the last page. So I didn't see anything.

Well, I intended to. I mean, me and her discussed it. I thought I'd added a definition for green space, open space somewhere in here, but I guess I did not.

Yeah, because our ordinance talking about open space requirements is only in the corridors.

I'm pretty sure that when you and I discussed it, though, I was going to put it in here.

It'll be in there. It's supposed to be in there.

But, yeah, it basically says that, you know, non-usable. spaces that are not publicly usable are not accepted for your open space requirements.

Now, if they make it a usable space, if it's a pond that they can picnic by.

Right. It's retention. It's meant to be an amenity. Right.

Including the utility easements and the buffers, right? Buffers are not included?

So a buffer could be counted if you're going to make it, like, walkable. So if you put a trail in it or something like that, then your buffer would be open space. But if it's not accessible to the people that live there, then you can't count it.

Okay.

So the requirement is it has to be usable space to your residents. If not, you can't count it.

Right. Yeah, I didn't see that language in here as much as I got through.

Like I said, when she originally brought this to me, I did write up something for it. And I must have, when I went back to reformat it, I must have clicked the wrong one or something.

But it'll be in there.

I wrote some language for it, and I'll make sure that gets stuck in there. Okay.

And the 30%, can they just clump it in one area? Or is there any way to say you kind of need to have it spread out where you don't just have like an open field and 50 houses and there's no green space except for one clump of trees over there?

So that would be impossible because of our tree preservation ordinance that we've already established. There won't be any portion of a major subdivision that they can just wipe out because they can't mass grade, they can't wipe out all the trees. You have to have 20% canopy throughout the entire subdivision. So they're going to have to strategically place open space, green space to get their canopy requirements met. So I don't think that's really possible, but yeah, we can add that kind of language in there to make sure they don't clump too much. But usually what they'll do is they'll make trails or they'll make little common areas, and then they'll have one big open space amenity to really hit their target goal.

Is there anything in there that says, what do you all call the big trees? What's the term?

Trophy trees.

Trophy trees or granite trees?

Is there anything in there that says they can't build within so many foot of a trophy tree?

In our tree preservation? I think we can't be within the drip line, I think.

Well, not that. If they get a house there, then after two or three years, the homeowner decides to cut it. Well, that's up to the homeowner. That's what I'm saying. We can only hold the developer to the standard. That's what I'm saying. But if you put up so many foot, at least it would leave it still, hopefully.

Well, I mean, it would probably still end up on a lot. And, of course, you can't stop a homeowner.

I understand that, but I'm saying if they build a house from me to you to a turf tree, you know what's going on.

Yeah, it cannot be within the drip line of the tree. So that's, I think, what we have currently in the tree preservation ordinance.

I mean, if you've got one of those huge, massive trees, I mean, that root system is going to go out as far as the branches spread out.

So you can't be within so much of one.

Right.

Right.

And most developers, they're going to try to build around something like that.

You can't even grade within the drip line. zone of the tree. Architectural controls, you know, that was something we discussed with Rick Green, you know, making sure you have different floor plans, making sure that you don't build the same floor plan right next to each other. You know, you have to diversify those floor plans. Make sure you use distinctive colors and materials to differentiate the homes so that you don't end up with the, I'm not going to say it since this is being broadcasted on YouTube, but you go on the other side of Bass Academy, you'll know what I'm talking about. You don't have that. So that's the goal.

But I think we talked about, too, these new developments, they do offer different floor plans.

They do.

but the houses still look the same.

Right, which is why I put number two in there.

But, okay, well, that's just colors and materials, but we were talking about how the roof, the gable slopes are the same. The roof lines are the same.

I mean, so... From a track house to a custom house.

Right, well, anyway, you can put different colors and materials on the same house, but that's not... architectural diversity, because you've got the same roof slopes, the same gatehouses.

That's why I tried to do with both. You have to have a separate floor plan and different colors and materials. So you can't have the same floor plan and then just change the colors and materials. You're going to have to, you build, you know, I'll use an example. So let's say the house is named Escape floor plan. You build an escape there. You can't build an escape next to it. I don't care if you change the colors. I don't care if you change the materials. The escape floor plan is not available for the lot on either side of the one you just built on. You've got to choose a whole different floor plan and you have to choose different materials and colors.

Okay. They do that now in those neighborhoods and they still look cookie cutter because gables and roof slopes are are the same.

All right. Well, send me some language and I will add that in there.

Okay. I'll have to figure out the language because...

We did say that in last month's meeting.

We did talk about it because the floor plans are different. Right. There's no diversity in a Tudor, a modern, a cottage, a bungalow, a second empire, which

I mean, there are other things that we could try. I mean, you could require dormers to be different or, you know, something of that nature or add dormers.

When we discussed it last month, we had better verbiage, you know, that made it more distinctive.

I'll ask Rick for some verbiage.

I mean, two side-by-side.

I just don't want to get so into it that it's impossible for Keystone to exist.

I'm just saying that the neighborhoods that are being built right now meet these two criteria right now. Technically, they do. But the homes, it doesn't matter. The homes look the same.

I understand. Yeah, two sides.

Every fifth house has to start all over.

But you got to, you know, you got friends, they want to build two houses alike that should be allowed.

And then it's like, you pick this house. Well, you can, you just can't be right next to each other. Okay, get it.

What was that?

He said, if two friends wanted to build the same house, they couldn't do it. Well, you can, you just can't do it right next to each other. I think that should be allowed.

But they want to do it next to each other.

too bad. Go live outside of a subdivision.

But you can't do it, so you and your friend have to go somewhere else.

You can run off the track builders, too.

Yeah, well, I think this is aimed at the track builders, spec home builders that are building these neighborhoods that look like military housing.

I understand that, but the bear weather areas and all are Texas, so I would need them.

Remember, your roof structures are the costly parts of the housing.

And every one of us can have that. When you got that building, I'm going to build it. I'm going to build it. I'm going to bolt it up. And that's where our cost was, in the roof.

And you get too far off that, you know what I'm saying?

Well, I wouldn't say that I would call them and get an opinion from them, but that's not going to help us in the least.

Because they're going to tell us to throw the whole thing in the trash.

We'll talk to Rick. There's clear diversity in the architecture.

We did talk about that. And when you, the more the things, and I did, we did talk to Rick about that as well. I talked to him separately too. The more restrictions, especially with things like that, you're getting more, further and further and further away from any kind of affordable housing.

That's just, if I can order, a lot of this, I can get it at a discounted price. Just like the same with putting them closer together, cramming them.

The more houses you can, lots you can build, the more I can divide the cost of all the infrastructure making.

Let me get with Rick on it and get some ideas. There might be some more minor things we can do to adjust it and just approve it a little bit without killing affordable housing.

Seriously. Go watch last month in that section where we talked about it, and we had it, and Rick said, yeah, now that would work.

I wouldn't have that meeting.

Yeah, I wasn't there.

Just the facade on the front would change a dress, you know, doing wrong.

And I think another thing we talked about in one of our meetings with Rick was windows on the giant cell sides that sometimes you'll see in those subdivisions where they just have a two-story wall with nothing in on it. We wanted that to go away, too. We did.

But really seriously, go watch that. You'll hear the verbiage there.

I was not in attendance, but I will.

I know you were not, and we missed you greatly.

All right. So I'll work on that. I'll get with Rick and review some of that. Landscaping plans. Obviously, entryways, you need to submit a landscaping plan. It needs to include entryways, streetscapes, green space, open space, retention, detention areas, entrances. And I added in there that any kind of retention or detention area that's not being used as an amenity has to be screened from view from any street or public way. I mean, I'm sure y'all have been in some of the subdivisions and they got the gaudy You know, a detention pond is a requirement. We can't control it. You have to have it. You have to control the water. That's mandatory. But you don't have to put it right in the front of the subdivision where everybody has to stare at it. You can screen it off, make it, you know, look better.

And then with that, do you got it landscaping and not just fence slats that's hiding it? Yeah, no, this is landscaping.

So you got to have trees, bushes, so many per foot, you know, that kind of thing. Well, per hundred foot, I think. And then the Section D retention detention pond requirements. David specifically asked me to put these in here because sometimes they don't use a standard on detention ponds and then they become really, really, really hard to maintain for the county. So, you know, we put in some requirements for the slope of them, having maintenance shelves, having buffers around the fence so we can get to the fenced area, making sure that any wooded vegetation is removed from around the pond area for a certain distance, that sort of thing, just to make it where we don't inherit a mess. Because we do have a few in the county that, you know, you need two men, one's got to have to have a harness and a rope to weed eat it because there's just no other way to get into it. They're so steep. So we put some requirements for that. And again, that applies to things that are not being used as an amenity. Obviously, if you have a huge retention pond that has no fence and it's nice and grass and it's meant to be an amenity for the development, whether it's commercial or residential, then we're not going to make you fall under that. But if you're putting in a classic detention pond, that's just meant to hold the water, storm water, and distribute it slowly, you're going to have to do these things to make it where it's manageable. Have we gotten in a subdivision with a pond design for that subdivision for it? So there's one in Windsor, and there's three in Mount Vintage. Windsor. At least three. It might be more than three, but there's at least three big ponds in Mount Vintage that are amenity. But it's not common. Most subdivisions you go in, they're trying to hide the detention pond in a corner somewhere, and they don't want to put any money into it. You're making me do this.

Can we put a thing if there's an existing pond that has to stay?

We can't.

Not break the dam and fill it in and get rid of it.

I don't think I would put it in that section. No, I'm just saying in general.

Yeah, I can add something for that.

Okay, and then optional improvements. I highlighted pretty much all of that because that's really up to y'all whether you want to require it or let it be optional. or if you want to set different rules on it like curb and gutter. Again, you don't really want curb and gutter if you've got a huge lot. You're just wasting money and time and you're causing a maintenance headache for the county in the future. But if you have a tight subdivision like Windsor, yeah, curb and gutter is a good idea. So, you know, right now it's just in the optional improvement section, but I'll let y'all

You can formulate your thoughts on that. So if you have over a certain amount of lots and the lot sizes are under.

Sort of the same thing for sidewalks, too.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you're developing a subdivision that's a large lot subdivision like an acre. Right. It doesn't make sense.

Correct.

To have sidewalks and curving. but a development like Windsor does.

Correct. And that's why I kind of left it in the optional section. We can set that as mandatory and then have a chart. Well, it depends. So they have four different products in there. They have townhomes. I think their biggest lots are or one-third acre, 14,000 square foot. And then their smallest are, what, 6,000 square foot? I mean, small, small. So the ones on the first road to the right, and you go down past the pond, and then there's another road, Candleberry, I think is its name. Those are small, small lots. But if you go down to the other end of Windsor Drive, those are pretty big lots. I mean, and they're building $600,000 houses on those. So, you know, they got multiple price points and multiple lot sizes. And, of course, you know, there's, what, 54 acres of space that we own now, technically. The county owns them now. Yeah, we're going, well, in the future. And the rest of it, we're going to leave wood. We're going to leave it forest because that's kind of the whole thing that when they did the PUD, we wanted them to preserve half of the property, basically. But a preservation company wouldn't take it. So now it's turned over to us. So that part will never get used. But there is a trail section, the old rail bed, We'll eventually develop that, I'm sure.

Are we still waiting on the City of North Augusta to bring the...

I mean, we can do our section with or without them.

Would that just be within Windsor?

So, I mean, eventually we want to connect it to the old railway. We want to buy the remainder of that property or acquire it and extend it. First phase, probably to Sweetwater. And then we have to figure out how we're going to get across Sweetwater. We can't go through the Oaks anymore. And what's the name of it? Ann Street or something that's off of Stevens Road. There's a little tiny subdivision that's right off of Stevens Road, almost right across from Tavern Hill. Like in that curve, there's one street that goes down. The old railway runs through there. but we used it as the drainage easement for the Oaks and that little subdivision. And we don't want to get into trying to finagle that. We don't want to pipe it. That's already being used basically. So we would probably also want the trail to connect to Sweetwater Park, obviously. So we're considering different things, but that's down the road. And then if we do get across Sweetwater Road, then, I mean, that remaining railroad runs all the way from Stevens Road all the way to downtown Edgefield. So you could do a huge greenway if you wanted to, which the bicyclists would love.

Mm-hmm.

The old truss is completely gone. Is there anything left of it? So the trussle that used to, the really big trussle that used to span what is now the Miller property, you know, he's got that natural waste landfill. Trees and stumps and rocks and stuff. It's not trash. That old trussle that used to span that is gone. So we would have to go downhill and back up or put in another, you know, bicycle bridge, I guess you'd call it.

I'm going to say no roadway in there. Because what we did on the, we did on Savannah Valley Railroad, we ran in front of that, we tied in with the roadway, you know, kind of went around.

But most likely we would go around. We wouldn't want our walking trail slash greenway to go through the middle of a landfill, natural waste or not. that would not be something. So, we would try to go around where the old trestle used to be, which would require negotiating with property owners. Anyway, let's get back to this. Street lights, you know, you would have to show us a plan, but We basically said the same thing that we say now. You want street lights, you better have a HOA because the county ain't paying for it. We ain't maintaining them. We're not changing the light bulbs. We're not paying the power bill. If you want street lights, that's on you. Crosswalks, you know, there could be scenarios where you want to require a crosswalk. Like if you put a bus stop in, you need to have a crosswalk, especially if it's a children's bus stop. There are scenarios where you will want to require that or not. Bike trails and pedestrianways, again, they're amenities. We can require specific amenities in certain subdivisions if you want to. And that's the whole thing as written right now. So y'all can take that and scribble it up and email it to us. And I will be happy to call Rick Green and try to get some more language for architectural controls.

Okay, let me see. We got one more item you're going to. I don't see.

We were going to go over that. Okay. Map of the county and try to determine areas that would be best suitable for more. We can interchange the zoning to make a lot more density.

So, and I think that, is that a request to David or the council?

Yes.

So the thing is, y'all remember when we redid the comp plan, we changed pretty much everything around the cities to allow for different zonings. We never implemented different zonings. We just changed it in the comp plan. So I think the idea there is, you know, do we want to look at – let me see if I can –

the Turkey Federation and Billy's Superstore or right around the outskirts of Edgefield or Johnston or Trenton. Anywhere that you can think of closer to the city that has accessibility to the utilities and things like that that would make it easier.

Not all of this, because some of this is already built. But like this RR area here, you know, you could change it to GR, for example. But, of course, we don't want to do that to existing subdivisions because we don't want to disturb what they've already built. But there will be areas like that, maybe change some of this general commercial to general residential, especially where it starts to connect to Trenton up here. So that's Trenton right there.

Stuff like that.

And then same thing around Johnston. I would say that, and this is my opinion, and I will definitely wait until David gets here and he can express his own opinions. I don't think we need to be less restrictive than the town. I think we still need to be more restrictive than the town. That encourages town growth because, obviously, if we created, say, a multifamily district or a really high-density district and we zoned all the way around the town with that, well, then what's the incentive for said developer or whoever to actually ask to be in the town. You know, so if you want to encourage the town to grow, then there needs to be an incentive with the town for them to accept it. So in my opinion, we don't really necessarily need to create a whole new district. We just need to maybe modify our districts that exist a little bit, you know, change a few things here and there just to encourage, you know, if somebody did, then they would approach the town and ask to be annexed into the town.

And the smallest lot size is in GR. It's a quarter acre.

Yeah, quarter acre is the smallest thing we have in any of our zoning districts. In fact, I think that's the only one with that small. Yeah, so everything else is half acre or larger.

Even in general commercial, residential has to be half acre.

So most of our zoning districts are half acre or larger.

So you're saying we need to come up with a new zone?

We might. Or we might just, you know, look at our comp plan that we came up with and see what would be appropriate as GR and then change those parcels to GR. But I also don't want to disturb anything that's existing, so we need to be kind of mindful, you know. We don't want to do, like, hmm. Rock Creek Timber Company's land or something, you know, something like that. You know, we want to be mindful of what we're zoning.

And I cannot, when you pick areas, I can bring the town that you're looking at, what their zoning is. I mean, in our, in GR may be, you know, perfect for something beside that because the towns is, what, $800? square feet, some small little teeny tiny eighth-acre lot is their minimum requirement for a lot size. And if we put quarter-acre lots, it would be a transitional amount going out from the town, and it would be fine to use GR. And then there may be some spaces out there.

I would say that we probably do, I mean, we don't currently have multifamily anywhere in our own zoning. We probably should create a zoning at some point for that. Not saying we necessarily need to apply it, but right now, even if we wanted to apply it, it doesn't exist. We can't zone anything with that.

I mean, I don't, I wouldn't want to go in and change lot sizes in an existing zoning ordinance because then you're affecting properties that are already zoned that, and that's not our intention, right? We're looking for places to say we can have smaller lots and multi-family lots.

Right, so I'll use this.

I would feel better having a new zone.

Yeah, I'll use this as an example. Zoning ordinance. This is a subdivision off Jeter Street, right as you're going out of town. I think the town limit sign is like right up here somewhere. This is R1, so I think there's 8,000 square foot lots, something like that minimum. We surrounded it with GR. That's our tightest. I mean, that's a quarter acre. That's our tightest, 12,000 square feet. But we could create something that's tighter. I just don't necessarily know that we want to create something that's equal to, because then there is no incentive. So if somebody bought that off of Buckeye or whatever, If our zoning is just the same as theirs, well, why would they annex into the town? I mean, if the goal is to grow the town, then that would be counterproductive. There would be no incentive, basically.

I'll see if Keisha, she's our GIS manager, can maybe come up with a colored map that would show you and then decide it would give you the town's... minimum lot size requirement and all their ordinance and then what we have and then if you had something you wanted to create that would include multifamily, you could do that as well. If you all have an idea, I could write something up and then leave it a different color and you can make an interactive map.

And like I said, I'm going to largely wait for David to give you an idea of exactly what he wants um because there's some areas you know I give you an example this one here you know family farm for generations and generations and generations there's no point we don't need to rezone that you know it's you don't want to rezoned the old dairy. You don't want to encourage it inappropriately. You don't want to say, oh, you know what? There's a big piece of land. We should put higher density there because it's right next to the town and it's a family farm that's been in there family for 600 years. That's not appropriate. We don't need to do that.

Can you say something about moving it more towards Trenton?

Yes. And a lot of that land right there has been for sale at the Turkey Federation. Beagle Club.

Yeah, I'm sure we have.

That would be a perfect place.

Not that I know of, or at least not all of them. They had a couple prospects one time. And then there are some restrictions there, you know, like this is zoned industrial here. Well, there's an old quarry there. We're not changing that.

You know, we have to be mindful of that.

But if we want to change some of this GC to GR, well, that's not going to hurt anything except for cooks. You don't want to change cooks, but...

Or if you did a separate zoning for multifamily, you could add a little bit more commercial than what GR has. You could look at it and change it out however you wanted it to make it exactly what you wanted to see there. Give it a little bit more commercial, make it a little more dense, make it multifamily friendly, and stick it in those areas.

Right now, I think the town of Edgefield is probably in better shape than the other two, because they have sewer capacity for one. So they might grow on their own. But in Trenton, they might not even want one.

But Johnston haven't grown in less than.

But Johnston is.

You know, the last time they grew was when the Gibson subdivision went out and moved it out there.

And they could use some affordable housing. Right, yeah. All right.

And we are working on that.