Zoning Hearing Board - Regular Meeting

All right, folks, I'm going to announce the hearings for tonight. First hearing is 11 North 13th Street. Second hearing will be 525 Microsoft Street. And the third hearing, where's the address? 236 Vista Drive. Whoever you guys are ready.

You ready? I'm going to take the first one. I'm going to take the first one. Mr. Chairman, if I may, Mr. Tillman talked with me before the commencement of the hearing and Insofar as this is technically a continuation of the hearing, we're going to dispense with the reading of the purpose. The board will recall that the appellant was before us back in December for a community services special exception in connection with the proposed youth group, emotional well-being and youth services use. The board did not feel they had enough concrete information at that time. They wanted to give the appellant a chance. So they granted a temporary special exception with the condition that once she was up and running, she would come back before the board to make a supplemental presentation So that hopefully the board has enough information to determine whether to deny the special exception or make the temporary special exception permanent And I will just for the board's Edification read one provision from the decision from back in December that might help refresh your memory with specifics reads as follows. Though the board lauded the concept, they felt the appellant did not present enough of a concrete plan, and this will hopefully help the appellant to tailor her presentation, enough of a concrete plan as to exactly what programs they would offer, how they would determine which teens were, quote, high risk, quote, quote, especially considering that they would accept walk-ins. The process by which they would obtain parental consent for attendance, et cetera, and therefore queried whether the appellant would consider a temporary approval with the idea that after the trial period she would return to the board with a full report on exactly what programs are being offered, exactly how they secure parental consent for the teen's attendance, how they admit the youth to the facility, how they determine high-risk teens so they can make sure to have the necessary trained staff, By example the behavioral therapist and or crisis management on hand and any other information She thought would be helpful for the board to determine its potential effect on the neighborhood Especially in as much as there is an elementary school situated not too far from the subject property to which she agreed And the rest is not applicable or doesn't add anything And I will remind the board as well that that one specific condition that was attached that they may want to when I say they the board may want to confirm has been complied with was the first condition at all times the doors to the facility will be kept locked and admittance will only be made by a staff member who will answer the doorbell to be installed by the appellant at the entrance doors thereto. After you swear the witnesses, the property was reposted, but you can get that sworn statement from Mr. Tillman. All right.

Thank you, Mr. Niskay. Is the applicant present?

Here she comes.

Oh, there she is. Okay.

Hello. We just opened your hearing.

Okay. Sorry about that.

That's okay.

You want to sit at the table?

Sure.

And I'm going to have you sworn in first. Anybody with you that's going to speak at this hearing? Is that?

Make sure it's on. No.

Okay. Is anybody here in the audience that wants to speak at this hearing? All right. We'll just have you sworn in then. Have a seat, please. Try to pull that microphone close to you.

I think that's as far as that one goes.

Okay. All right. If you want to just state your name and address for the record.

Asanae Diggs Jackson, 2617 Anthony Court, Easton, PA, 18045.

Okay. So you missed the whole introduction that Mr. Niskey read off your reason for coming back. And... Mr. Nitzke, since you did that so well, I'm going to ask you to do it again if you don't mind. All right.

Ms. Dix-Jackson, I was reminding the board of what was in the original decision and specifically what they were looking for you to come back and fill in for them this evening. And that provision read as follows. though the board lauded the concept, they felt the appellant did not present enough of a concrete plan as to exactly what programs they would offer, how they would determine which teens were high risk, especially considering that they would accept walk-ins, the process by which they would obtain parental consent for attendance, and therefore queried whether whether the appellant would consider a temporary approval with the idea that after a trial period, she would return to the board with a full report on exactly what programs are being offered, exactly how the secure parental consent for the teen's attendance, how they admit the youth to facility, how they determine high-risk teens so they can make sure to have the necessary trained staff, including the behavioral therapist and or crisis management on hand, and any other information she felt would be helpful for the board to determine its potential effect on the neighborhood, especially in as much as there is an elementary school situated not too far from the subject property. And I also reminded the board of the one specific condition they attached to the temporary approval, which was at all times the doors to the facility will be kept locked and admittance will only be made by a staff member who will answer the doorbell to be installed by the appellant at the door, I'm sorry, entrance door thereto. So having said that and knowing what the board is looking for. If I could just ask Mr. Tillman, this property was posted.

Yes, it was. Thank you. So with that, if you have a report for the board, on those issues that Mr. Nisky just brought up.

OK, so as far as the door, the door is locked at all times. There's no way for anyone to enter without a staff member coming in. We don't have a doorbell. That's just because the wiring had to be redone in our building. So we didn't want to go in and install cameras or anything, but that is going to be done. That process is done. That is going to be done. As far as the behavioral technician, so not all kids are high risk. So we, as an organization, just didn't feel a need to have a behavioral technician on staff during all open hours. Sorry. So some of the programs that we currently have is leadership development. Then we have our newest program that's called Brother to Brother. It's just a group of male adults who's gonna be mentoring young men. We have our Stay Strong program. That one is still in developing. We're trying to raise enough funding for that one.

I'm talking, was that all Stay Strong?

The Stay Strong program.

All stay strong? No, just stay strong.

Just stay strong. Yeah. That one, it's going to be like a developmental building, resilience, confidence, healthy decision making. That's going to be for both male and female. Then we have the teen circle talk. That's basically youth can come in. We sit around a table. talk about anything really, whatever's on the kid's mind. Then we have our leadership council, homework, health, academics, self-care, wellness initiatives, and that's where basically we offer, we do two free haircuts, and then we do pedicures and manicures for young women, and we do four of those every Sunday. So those are some of the programs that we have now. As far as the, what was it? I just lost my train of thought.

Parental consent?

Yeah, parental consent. As far as the parental consent, so we actually just got a new system. Before we was using like JopForm, Google Forms, things like that. Our new system is called Airtable. I'm sorry, it's what? Airtable.

Can you spell it for me?

A-I-R, table.

Airtable, okay, I'm sorry.

It's much cleaner, way more organized. We can directly put our intake forms on there. We can share the link with families. They can go on and put all of the information for their child, sign parental consent, any information that they think will be necessary for us to have if their kid is going to be joining us in the lounge. And that's pretty much it for that. It also lists all of our programs, really any information that parents would need if they're interested in their kid coming to the lounge or just want to, you know, if kids are, like I said before, wanting to walk past, we are keeping paper applications on hand. So that we can give to youth, you know, say, hey, just make sure your parents is aware. This is what you want to do. So they know that you're here. And then we also have like QR codes. Those are little things that we can give out so that parents who consent and also parents can just be aware where they kid are.

But if they do walk in, they're given the form and they're not allowed to stay until the parental consent is signed.

Yes.

Thank you. Any questions?

So we actually just got our CEO like last month. So we did a lot of like, we did the Westward cleanup just this weekend. We did the Strawberry Festival. We've been doing like a lot of other community things. We haven't really, besides my youth council where sometimes we met at the lounge, organizing, setting up. We changed things around like five times. We haven't actually been able to have anyone really there because we just got our CEO. And our grand opening is actually tomorrow.

So with that, Mr. Nischke, do we entertain the idea of extending this another six months since she hasn't had time to?

I was wondering if he wanted to do the same thing. I mean, she's done a great job at addressing the points that the board wanted her to address. But in terms of the number of students I wanted to call them students, teens to be served. She's not able to give you that information yet. So I wonder if you don't want to do that so that she can get her feet on the ground and get everything rolling and then come back and tell you what the attendance has been like and what the effect has been on the neighborhood, if any.

And even the programs that you mentioned, how they're you know how they're starting to take off or not or whatever it may be and i guess too i guess with the um the behavioral staff that you said you don't you don't know if you need it because if you haven't had anybody in there yet you don't know if you if you have high-risk teens or not so i think that needs still needs to be determined yet as well so if you don't mind we're gonna i think we'll

I wonder if I can, this is just a thought off the top of my head, if you want to go on an eight month extension and let me tell you why. If her grand opening is tomorrow, like with any new business, the first couple of months are slow. And it might not be an accurate gauge of what it's going to become. So because the way it was set up in the December decision, When she reached the four-month point, she was to contact the zoning office for a hearing during the fifth month before the expiration of the six-month permit. So if you give her an eight-month permit this time, that way she would have a full six months and a hearing in the seventh month.

RICHARD WESTERBERG, JR.: So that would be February of 27.

CHRISTIE WOODARD, JR.: OK. RICHARD WESTERBERG, JR.: Does that sound? And the conditions would all stay the same?

CHRISTIE WOODARD, JR.: OK. That sounds fair.

Good. Is that? Yeah. Okay.

Ms. Banton made a motion. I'll second.

I don't know that you closed the record yet.

Closed. Now she made a motion and I second.

Ms. Banto? Aye. Mr. Civitella? Aye. Ms. Volcano-Hall?

Aye.

Aye. I see eight months. Ready? All right.

Next hearing, Secretary of the Purpose, please. All right. Applications hereby made for public hearing before the Eastern Zoning Hearing Board for a property known as 525 Mixel Street in Zoning District, College Hill, Black Class A. Variance is as follows. 59512E4 proposed shed located in the side yard. Required shed shall be located behind the principal structure. The appellant is Brian Weiss at 1630 Orchards Road, Hellertown, PA, 18055. The owner is Jamie and Blake Rush at 525 Mixwell Street, Easton, PA, 18042. Nine adjacent property owners are notified and it was published in the press.

Thank you. Tillman, is the applicant present?

Yes. I'm Blake Rush. I'm the property owner. Brian's on vacation, so he asked me to come if that's okay.

Yeah. So Brian Rentz. Oh, there you are. So Brian. Okay.

I'm sorry.

You know what? I'm sorry. I didn't even throw you in yet. Let me throw you in first and then have it stand up. I'm sorry. Wait. I'm sorry. Is anybody else here for this hearing? I didn't think so. Oh, you are. You want to speak at this hearing, sir? Okay. You want to stand up and be sworn in? I should have asked you guys. Now, if you give us your name and address for the record, please.

Lake Rush, 525 Mitchell Street.

And Mr. Tillman, this was posted? Yes, it was. Yes, it was. Proceed, sir. No, I have it. This is a double lock, correct?

Yeah, our house is almost like a shotgun style. It's on the left-hand side. It goes straight back. I did bring images of the shed.

Yeah, I think we have that too. Yep. I don't see your parking pad. You said your parking pad was... Oh, I'm sorry. There it is. There it is. Never mind. Yeah.

So our house...

So I guess the question is, is the shed in front of the parking pad?

No, no, no. So, all right, you're going to orient yourself.

The street is here.

Yeah. Okay.

So the front of our house is this. It's right here.

In the driveway. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I see it. I'm sorry.

And then we do... We pull in and the parking pad is, you know,

No, no, I see it. It's just really busy.

Sorry.

No, no, no. I mean, that's good. We like a lot of detail.

So there's a big tree in the front yard by the driveway on the front part of the fence, and there's two trees that will, on each side of it, wherever you want to put them.

So the front of the shed will face that property? Gotcha.

Is there a fence dividing the property?

I got to tell you, over the years, we've seen some sheds that are almost as big as the house. And here you are with two properties, basically, with all these trees, the pool, and a small little shed. But that's OK. I appreciate that. Does the board have any questions? There's no further questions. If you have anything else you want to add? I'm close to hearing. Yeah. No. And it's already off. It meets the setback. And there really is nowhere to put it in the back of the house at all. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of where you're going to roll stuff into it and out of it in the parking area anyway, so. Motion to approve by Mrs. Volcano-Hall. Second by Mrs. Panto.

Ms. Volcano-Hall? Aye. Ms. Panto? Aye. Mr. Civitella?

Aye.

It's been granted. Good luck. And thank you for the easiest hearing we've had in months. Yeah, really.

OK, next hearing will start in about an hour and 30 minutes. I'm kidding. Look at it. She got mad already. Look at that.

You ready? Come on. He will appear at your local comedy club.

You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. All right. Go to the next hearing. Secretary of the Purpose, please.

All right. Applications is hereby made for public hearing for the Easton Zoning Hearing Board for a property known as 236 Vista Drive, Zoning District Southside Block Class B. Variance is as follows. 59514B, proposed an A13 group homes, required not a permitted use. zoning code 595 32 a 8 a proposed group home used to be conducted in a semi-detached residential structure required the use shall be conducted in a detached residential structure zoning code 595-04a4 definition for a family proposed six unrelated persons occupying a dwelling unit required not more than three unrelated persons occupying a dwelling unit. The above actions request to proceed with an A13 group home use. The appellant is Janice Vasquez at 236 Vista Drive, Easton, PA 18020. Nine adjacent property owners were notified and it was published in the press.

Thank you. Is the applicant present? Come forward, please. I assume everybody here wants to speak at this hearing. If you want to speak, I'm going to ask you all to stand up and be sworn in. If you don't stand up and be sworn in, you're not going to be able to speak at this hearing. So if you don't want to speak.

Okay.

Okay. Yes, sir, do you have a question? No, there would be a time when you, yeah, for that. OK. You're welcome.

You know what, Mr. Chairman, since it's just been brought to my attention, it's a good idea. Those who do wish to be a party to the proceeding and to receive a copy of the board's decision, if we can take a couple of minutes. Mr. Tillman has put a pen and paper on the table up here. If you would each come up and write down, legibly please, so I can read it, your name and your address. Sir, would you indicate on there that you're representing the HOA? Thank you.

I'm sitting here thinking about Allison because he's asking her to be his co-pilot.

And then I'll just say, good luck. You can't stop.

That's not bad. I guess if I wanted to take the financial data that I have for the church and the school, run it through there, just so to ask it, like, Okay, you're ready? All right, if you could give your name and address for the record, please. You can pull that. You're talking to the mic.

Yeah, there you go. No.

No.

Okay, there we go. Janice Vasquez, 236 Vista Drive, Eastern Pennsylvania, 1804-2. Correct.

Okay. And, Mr. Chairman, before we proceed, if I can interrupt for one minute, Ms. Vasquez, the owner of the property is shown to be Beyond Blue LLC.

That's correct. I own Beyond Blue LLC.

You're the managing member or the sole member?

Yes.

All right, thank you.

And the property in question is your home?

No.

So it's just...

It's an investment property.

Got it. Okay. All right. So you understand why you're here?

Yes.

Okay. So you can explain then, one, I guess, so right off the bat, this is not a permitted use, right? So you have to give the board reasons why the variant you need is valid. What else? The... The use that you're proposing for it to be conducted in a semi-detached residential structure, and this requires a detached residential structure. And then not more than three people should be occupying, and you are proposing six.

OK. So my name is Janice. I'm a registered nurse in the founding of Blooming Willows Children's Home. I purchased 236 Vista Drive with purpose to provide a future and make a difference for children who need it most. I made many sacrifices to get here. I purchased this property with my own money, put a lot of time into it, and my own commitment. I am here tonight because I want to open a licensed home for up to six girls in Pennsylvania's child welfare system, girls who have experienced trauma, loss, and stability through no fault of their own, girls who deserve a safe, stable, supervised home in a real neighborhood with a real community. What I am asking for, which you said, but I'm going to repeat, my variance notice includes three specific requests, a variance to permit A13 group homes at 236 Vista Drive, a variance to permit that used in a semi-detached residential structure A REQUIREMENT THAT HAS NO BASIS IN PENNSYLVANIA STATE LICENSING LAW. MODIFICATION OF THE UNRELATED PERSON'S RESTRICTION ON MY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FROM THREE TO SIX BECAUSE THE CHILDREN I INTEND TO SERVE ARE PLACED THROUGH THE CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM AND WILL LIKELY NOT BE RELATED TO ONE ANOTHER THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. I'M NOT ASKING TO CHANGE THE OCCUPANT LOAD. THE CITY HAS ALREADY APPROVED 11 PEOPLE IN THIS HOUSE. I'M ASKING FOR SIX. FIVE FEWER THAN WHAT'S ALREADY APPROVED. why I want to do this. I know what these programs mean because I've lived it. I was a girl who had the right people on her corner. Programs like Valley Youth House pointed me in the right direction. These people led me to becoming a registered nurse, a homeowner, and a founder. This is a full circle moment for me. These girls need someone to open the door for them, not a facility miles away in an institutional zone, a home, a neighborhood where they can go to school, walk down the street, and feel like they belong somewhere. Pennsylvania Chapter 3800 was designed specifically for this, licensed residential care in a community setting. The state has no issue with this home. My oversight would be entirely by Pennsylvania DHS with regular inspections, trained staff, and full accountability. How does it benefit the community? These six girls will live here, attend schools, shop at local stores, and grow up part of the community. They will be Eastern residents. This is what community integrated care looks like, and it's what Pennsylvania law says these children deserve. And who knows, these children who grow up in this community may one day want to give back and serve it, just like I'm sure many of the people in this room have done. Every person who contributes to the city started somewhere. Someone gave them a chance, and I am asking the board to do the same thing. This board already approved this exact use in 2018, appealed 2018-4705, an A13 group home in a semi-detached structure in the district. The board's own finding was that the use will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood nor adversely affect adjacent properties. Nothing has changed. How does this not harm the community? No signs, no commercial activity, no unusual traffic, no exterior exchanges, no disruption to the neighbors. Staff coming and going is no different than visitors at any other home. They are not occupants and do not count toward the occupant load. Six supervised children under 24 hour professional care causes less neighborhood impact than 11 people living in one house, which the city already permits at this address with no oversight and no disclosure to anyone. The city cannot point, to a single concrete harm. The city has already confirmed in writing that three unrelated renters are permitted at this address while three children classified as A13 are not. Same number, same house, same neighborhood impact. The only difference is who the residents are. The city's own code defines A13 group homes as dwelling serving persons with disability. By prohibiting A13 in the district, the city is saying by its own definition, Persons with disabilities receiving supervised care cannot live here. The Fair Housing Act was written specifically to prevent exactly this. I also want the board to know that the city solicitor, when asked specific legal questions about the reasonable accommodation application, the transit use classification, and the structural requirement, never responded, and those emails were sent on both May 18th and May 22nd, and as of tonight, they still have remained unanswered. Just the other day, the city of Easton raised the Juiced Heath flag in recognition of freedom, resilience, and the ongoing pursuit of equality. Easton speaks about honoring history while working towards a future rooted in justice, unity, and opportunity for all. Easton talks about supporting the unhoused, embracing inclusivity, and honoring the strength of women and children in the community. Easton speaks about a spirit of respect, acceptance, and community. I am using my own experiences to feel this purpose. I know what it means to need guidance and have someone in your corner. These girls will not only have a safe home, they will have role models and mentors like myself to give them a guiding hand and a chance at a brighter future. Not only are we providing opportunities for these kids, we are providing examples. Many of them are in these situations through no fault of their own. They deserve the same shot at a future as anybody else in this community. It is also important for me to build relationships with the city and the community because it takes a village. I cannot do this alone. I want Blooming Willow to be a part of Easton, not separate it. As a nurse, I have always served the person in front of me, not a group, not a class, not a status. The person who comes in asking for help and trusts me with their care. I am asking the city to do the same.

Thank you.

So, okay. So, but again, with this property, where does the hardship lie with you?

Well, I purchased the I purchased the property solely for the intent of using it for Blooming Willow. So as of now, I've been paying for a property that I can't use.

Right. So can I just stop you a second? So you bought a property that you knew you couldn't use?

No, I didn't know I couldn't use it. I'm still having a hard time understanding why I can't have kids who are part of the welfare system living in the house. But if I was renting it to 11 people, I wouldn't have to notify the city who's living in it.

I don't know where you're getting 11 people.

My CO says an occupancy load of 11, no more than three unrelated. So if I was renting the property out to a family of 11, I wouldn't have to ask for permission. I wouldn't have to notify the community who's living in the house. I wouldn't have to go to a board hearing. I could rent that house out with 11 people in it, and I wouldn't have to be here today. So I'm having a hard time understanding why these kids can't be in that home.

May I? Go ahead. No, go ahead.

Your mic's not on.

Am I loud enough?

No, but it's being recorded.

All right. May I ask? So you mentioned PA 3-800, the law?

Chapter 3800.

Right, chapter 3800, which is the law for group homes and being watched.

It's the licensing that I'll be operating under.

Right. So does that mean you'll have an adult with them at all times in the facility?

24 hours. They'll be supervised 24 hours, correct. And there's cameras in the house and there's staff 24 hours a day at the property. Okay.

Those are my questions for right now.

Notwithstanding your failure to understand why you purchased the property knowing, if I'm understanding you correctly, that you could not use it as a group home. Is that correct?

No. I was not aware that I couldn't use it as a group home.

So you understand that First of all, let me explain. This board is charged with enforcing the zoning code in the city of Easton. And the zoning code says that what you want to do with this property is not allowed. Your task, going back before you bought the property, was to find out and make sure if you were purchasing it, as you say, with the intent to use it as such, was to make sure that you could.

So from my understanding, nowhere in Easton is A13 group homes allowed.

I can't believe that. I think that's a special exception.

At least that's what I was told when I spoke to the Disability Rights Act.

Well, then you talked to the wrong person. And understand, just because DHS says, yeah, we approve this, that's a different set of laws. In other words, when they said, from our perspective, you can do this in that property, that means you met their legal criterion. But you still have to meet the city's legal criterion. And in order to establish a legal hardship, especially when you need a use variance, you have to show that it cannot be used for a purpose which is permitted under the zoning ordinance. And with all due respect, and trust me, I'm sure I can speak for the board when we say we laud your intent, but with all due respect, you went about it the wrong way because though you gave a very impressive presentation, there was not one thing there that even begins to approach a legal hardship which would meet the criterion legally, and this is law that is set by the state, to qualify you for a use variance

Well, if Easton is saying that A13 group homes are not allowed in the South Side, then why aren't these people that the city defines as people with disabilities not allowed to live in the South Side? Because A13 is defined by the city of Easton in zoning people with disability who require 24-hour supervision, which is what I am doing.

What kind of disability are you claiming these girls have?

they have ADHD, anxiety, trauma. It is not for...

So why would somebody with ADHD is living in a group home?

Because they're part of the welfare system. So the girls from Chapter 3800, they're a protected class under the Disabilities Act.

So they don't have a home. Where are they living that they have to then go live?

The state has them, and then they put them in homes.

So this is like a transition for them?

You could say it's like a transitional home.

I presume there are six girls individually placed right now in various and sundry locations. And when they reach a certain point in their treatment, they are reclassified, if you will, able to go out and live in this setting?

They're not always somewhere permanently right now. They could be in the hospital right now waiting for placement. And they're holding up an emergency ER bed. And so the state can find somewhere to put the girls. Sometimes they're ripped out of the house for whatever situation, last minute. And then the county crisis workers are contacting us to see if we have room in our homes to put them in.

OK. And what's the ages?

Six to 18. But technically under Chapter 3800 licensing, they can age out at the age of 21. But we'll be holding them until they're 18, and then they can go into a transitional home that would be from 18 to 21 if they choose to.

Okay, but again... none of that addresses the legal requirements that you as an applicant before this board have to meet in order for the board to say, yes, we can grant this.

So zoning literally says that it does not allow 24 hours supervised care for people with disability.

In this location.

Yes, but why? Why are these people not allowed in the south side? Because if I was renting the house out to somebody who did require 24-hour...

I'm not going to sit here and argue about you with why, okay? We didn't write the ordinance, so I can't answer your question. Well, that's why I'm... If you want to challenge the ordinance, you can consult an attorney, and there are ways you can do that. But for tonight's purposes, I'm telling you, that you have an obligation to come forth with evidence that meets the requirements necessary to grant the variances that you want, and you have not come close to establishing one of them.

Okay, so if we're going to speak about hardship, then there's a hardship to the children.

No, no, no, no. The hardship relates to the property. That's what you're failing to understand. Zoning law requires, in this instance, that you show that this property cannot be used for a purpose which is permitted under the zoning ordinance. I suspect you could try until you're blue in the face and you're not gonna be able to prove that because I'm sure that these other residents live in their houses as they were intended to be used.

but there's already an A13 in the south side. So what is the difference from that property to this one?

I don't know where there is an A13 in the south side.

Mr. Tillman can probably give you the address since he confirmed it in writing.

And I don't know if it's in a similar zoning district. It is.

I have the...

I don't know what the circumstances were.

I have the zoning application for the property.

Ma'am, it doesn't matter. Every... situation is looked at on a case-by-case basis.

Well, I mean, to me it just sounds like it's selective enforcement then. If it's already approved in the same type of house for the same zoning variance, I'm not sure why I can't use it.

But like he said, every case that comes here, it's on a case-by-case basis. So that circumstance that you're talking about might have been something totally different than what you're talking about.

and you've admitted that you purchased the property for this purpose, one of the requirements to earn a zoning variance is that the hardship has not been created by the appellant. You created your own hardship when you purchased it for this use. I know you don't want to hear that, and it's not fun for me to sit here and tell you that, because I can tell that you're a very genuine person, and you care about these people, and you want to help them. But that doesn't help us be able to help you. Does that make sense?

Sure.

We also have to take into consideration the folks that are out here that received notification about this and are here to speak also. So there's a large body of people out here that are living in their homes personally, and they're here to speak also. you know, the association and everything else, what their feelings are. And it is a great, I mean, I think what you're trying to do is a great thing. I just think it's in the wrong spot. I mean, that's kind of it in a nutshell. I think it's a great, you know, I applaud you for wanting to help these girls, but I just think it's in the wrong spot. I think the wrong location. And I think that that's what we're trying to say. Just to tell you that we think what you're doing is good, but it's just not the right spot.

So when I purchased the property, I purchased it as a rental investment, which In my eyes, I just assumed I could rent it to anyone. I didn't know the girls fell under 813 group home until I spoke with Mr. Tillman and asked him to change the occupancy load. It was at that point that I was told, even if I was renting the property out to three people who were unrelated, I still couldn't use my current CO because of the way the girls, the group home is classified and under Easton is classified as 813. So the property was purchased as a rental investment. I didn't know that the kids would be classified as 813.

But that was your responsibility to know.

But I don't understand why they're classified as 813. Like I bought the property to rent it out to someone.

But that was, again, that was your responsibility to know beforehand if you could even do that.

But it's the city's, it's the... You're not getting it. I do understand, but Easton is the one defining the girls as A13.

There's other cities in Pennsylvania that do not... Well, you're proposing is a use variance. You're changing the use. So that's up to you to know that.

And if I may ask a question, have you tried to rent it out as a rental property? Because rentals in Easton do go right now with the occupancy that is acceptable and allowed for the property.

No, I haven't because I want to rent it out to Blooming Willow's Children's Home.

So you said earlier, and I kind of agree with you, you said that the girls shouldn't be put in an industrial... place where they're allowed. They should be able to go into a neighborhood. You said that, right? I don't disagree with that, right? But I think if you had take the time to learn the zoning laws and what you can do and not do, I think the right thing to do, because I don't know what the neighbors are going to say, but if they're against it because they're afraid of this, because they don't know, right? The thing to do, and this is not advice, I'm just speaking, this is my opinion, that you would do it where it's allowed, right? So that now you have proof that there was no problems, it works, and now I'm bringing it to the neighborhood, right? But there's no proof that it works in that setting.

I mean, I would have just assumed that because it was granted already that there is proof it works, since that was granted in 2018. And there hasn't seemed to be issues with that since.

And the word that you used there that you're stumbling on in front of the board is assumed. You assumed too much without finding out. And I assume that you didn't even know about the other A13 approval that you're referring to until after you were told about the problem with this one.

No, actually, I asked. Nobody told me about it. Because I was trying to, again, understand why the kids aren't allowed, why I can't rent the house out to the kids. That's my point.

You looked into that after you found out that it was problematic on your property.

Yes, I don't see why renting a property out to somebody with a disability would have been an issue, because I can do that now. I can rent the property out to three people with disabilities and not have to disclose it to anyone or be in front of zoning. Correct. But it's because of zoning's definition of the girls, because of how zoning is choosing to classify the girls. This classification of 813 group homes isn't in other cities. Every city has its own definition. So I wasn't aware that that's how the city of Easton defined the girls.

They don't define the girls. They don't define the girls.

We're not defining them at all. We're defining the location of the home where you want to put them. That's what we're defining. That's incorrect.

Yes, so the zoning laws, the zoning code says people with disabilities aren't allowed to live in this location. That's 813's definition in zoning.

That's correct.

Yes.

Yes. That's correct.

Okay, so why could, if I was renting the house out to a mother who had two kids and required... You're asking the wrong questions.

We're not here to, we can't even answer that question. We can only, we only, we're like, Mr. Inslee said we're charged with what's in front of us.

That's it.

We can't change. We're not going to change the zoning law. You can.

You can rent a house out to a family that has two children with disabilities. No problem. So it's a totally different situation. You're asking to put six young women in a home in a location that is not allowed. If you picked a different location where it was allowed, you wouldn't even be here. I think what you're trying to do is wonderful. I mean, I really do, but it's just not in the right spot.

Anybody in the audience want to speak?

Well, before we do, is it necessary? I mean, I don't want you... No, I don't think it is, but I mean, I didn't know if anybody had anything burning to say. Okay. Can you come up here? Can you come up and identify?

And then just give your name and address for the record.

Just make sure it's on. Now press the button. It'll come on green.

Oh, okay. Jennifer Gibson. Do you need my address? Yes, please. 84 Highlands Boulevard. My question to you, when you purchased the home, did you get a copy of the covenants, the restrictions, and the bylaws? Did you read them if you did? No, I don't think so. So therefore, this is where the issue is. It's all outlined in our covenants and restrictions. Were you planning to use the property for financial gain?

No, I purchased it as a rental.

I understand that you purchased it as a rental, but for the group home purpose, would that be a financial gain to you?

I can't answer that because I haven't ran a group home, so I don't know if I'm going to make money or lose money.

So would you have gotten any type of funding or what have you?

Yes, the state provides money to feed them.

And therefore, if you had gotten a copy of the covenants and restrictions, as well as the bylaws, you will have understood that this cannot be a commercial property or a property for profit.

So 3,800 licensing is not considered commercial or a business.

OK, so but again, I'm going to cut it off there because. OK, and I'm done. Yeah, thank you. But it doesn't matter because you didn't read the covenant. and whatever restrictions there are that go with that house. You wanted to buy this house because you wanted to put it there and you didn't care, right?

It's not that I didn't care, it's that I didn't understand.

I understand, but anyway.

Yes, because I wasn't provided one.

Okay, let me interject here. When you buy a property, okay, it's incumbent upon you to take the appropriate steps. Typically, you do that with an attorney. You apparently chose not to. But by law, you were supposed to ask for a copy of the governing document, the bylaws, and the covenants and restrictions of the Homeowners Association and review them before buying the property to see what you could and could not do with it. So there's a second thing that you failed to do. You just went in hoping that you could do it, but unfortunately hoping does not make it legal.

I just went by what my realtor told me.

Again, your responsibility. You're pointing the finger at all these people that it's their fault, their fault, but this all comes back to you have to know. It's your responsibility.

With all due respect to this applicant, the realtor, whoever that is. Well, the realtor might have lied to you too, but- Could have known to tell you these things. Correct.

And sometimes the realtors don't do that.

So unless you have something else that will meet the legal requirements to earn the variances that you're asking for, I don't see the point to continuing because you've presented not one bit of evidence that meets any of the multitude of requirements that you have to meet.

Well, I feel like I tried to explain the reasoning with the whole disabled people, not disabled in the classification. But it just honestly sounds like I'm not going to be able to really explain it to you guys. So I guess not.

OK. All right. So do you have anything further to add then?

Will I receive minutes to this?

You can ask for a transcript. You will have to pay for it. OK. Who do I ask? You can get that young lady's name before you leave, and you will receive a copy of the decision from me. OK. Signed by that gentleman there. OK? All right.

We'll close the hearing.

Ms. Volcano-Hall? Aye. Mr. Civitella? Aye. Ms. Panto? Aye.