Joint City County Planning Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay.

Good morning. Good morning, everybody. Thank you all for being here. It's August 5th, Joint City-County Planning Committee, 9.30 in the morning. Let's go ahead and do the call to order, please.

Chair Baker?

Here.

Vice Chair Lee? Mayor Pro Tem Caballero? Here. Planning Commissioner Chigaris? Here. Commissioner Jacobs? Council Member Kopach?

here commissioner valentine here council member burris yeah all right and commissioner lee he was at the breakfast too i think no okay okay okay commissioner lee told me he would be here but would be a little bit late oh uh great uh any adjustments to the agenda no all right any announcements All right, approval of the minutes. Any comments? Any motions?

I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes. Chair Baker, I move that we accept the minutes as proposed.

Second.

All right. Motion in a second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Awesome. All right. We're on to item four, city and county managers' priority items.

Good morning. Tara Baker, members of Joint City-County Planning. I'm Ava Miles of the City Attorney's Office, and the city has no priority items this morning. Thank you.

All right. Well, let's just jump in. Are we good? I think... I don't know if you spoke in your... I'm just going to assume he doesn't have anything. All right. Let's move on to item five, the landscape manual update.

Good morning Robin Schultz planning and development department here to speak with you this morning on the 2026 landscape manual update also with me is Mike ever heart, he is wisely hiding off camera off wave to the to the folks. All good all right. So what is the landscape manual? Essentially, you know, just sorry, just back up one second. Originally, the landscape manual was adopted in 2005 and essentially contained a lot of recommendations and best management practices for what might be planted in 2013 and 2021. It was updated to be more of a regulatory document, though it still contains some best management practices. um in 2021 we did commit to adopting the manual every five years so here we are in 2026 essentially how the manual functions is that it applies to all new development that's governed by the permitting process in the udo which is to say that we don't use this to regulate residence gardens this is a tool that we use when we're reviewing plans and essentially applies to all develops which are developed or substantially changed So what's in it, we have required planting details and specifications so you'll see on the right there, that is our tree planting detail essentially what we do is we use this when we go out and we do our tree inspections. We require that developers put these on every site plan in which they're planting something and this denotes how the tree has to be planted Mike and I will then go out. mostly Mike now and say, you know, did you do X, Y, and Z? And so it's essentially the standards that we hold folks to for quality. It also contains species lists. So the landscape manual sort of functions a bit like how I explain the difference between planning and building and safety, right? So planning says what you can build building and safety says how you have to build it udo says you know you have to have so many plantings landscape manual says what you can plant to meet those requirements um also contains things for like best management practices and other additional recommendations that we've gotten um both from you know professional organizations but also from advocacy groups around triangle One thing that I will say is that the landscape manual does not contain the actual requirements for like the number of street trees tree coverage requirements. or other required landscaping, this is going to be in the video right, so that is the thing that tells you what you have to do, and then the landscape Daniel tells you essentially how you have to do it. So just going over some of our comprehensive plan guidance, a lot of goals related to the environment. So really trying to make sure that this new iteration meets the biodiversity, environmental justice, environment and public space, green infrastructure, and community relationships goals. Really trying to take this and do that update and make sure that it meets the 2023 comprehensive plan. So what are we changing? We're updating those species lists. Durham has shifted into a new hardiness zone since, well, I guess parts of Durham have, excuse me, since the last time the manual was updated. Some species are showing more invasive tendencies than they were five years ago, new information like that. We're also updating the planting details themselves, making it very clear what we're looking for when we're inspecting. We're also making those details in-house, which has been really exciting. So really tailoring it to what we're looking for and what Durham wants. We're also doing Spanish translation of the details. I think it was Arborist News that posted a couple of months ago that it was between 25% and 35% of all landscaping contractors in the US right now speak Spanish. So we have a goal of making sure that we are publishing everything we can in Spanish. So we've also decided to translate those details We're trying to improve the overall accessibility of the document. I think right now when you open the landscape manual, it's a little unclear as to what you're being held to and what we're recommending. So we're trying to make that very clear. Prioritizing native species, you know, that's the thing that we hear constantly. So trying to make sure that that's a clear directive and clear thing that you can see within the document, as well as providing a new table for native grasses within the LDC. There were a few different spots where native grasses could sub for shrubs, but the landscape manual wasn't updated to say what those were. So should the LDC move forward in the future, we have something there to point to. So I just wanted to give one example right, so this is going to be the eastern red, but which is native and then the Chinese red, but which is not native. But not invasive right and so you'll see that, even though we still allow you to plant that Chinese red, but the only place that you can plant it right now is in. what's known as vehicle use in parking areas, right? So native plants, you know, we're adapted to grow here. They do great. They were not adapted to grow in a parking lot where it's increased heat, you know, water fluctuations outside of their sort of, you know, um just general growing habit so where we try to do is focus um allowable non-invasive non-natives within those harsher conditions but definitely prioritized native species wherever we could Just to give you a brief overview of the project schedule, we started doing planning research earlier this year with some initial drafting going through the midsummer. We're hoping to release the final draft, not the final draft, the first draft in this month, so late summer, early fall. then we will move into broader engagement i will say that we have been engaging with some advocacy groups as well as some practitioners folks who really use the manual and have a lot of thoughts on how it works it's very technical so that's been it's been very helpful but we will move into broader engagement once the first draft is released and then it will move to the adoption process for you all And then, you know, this is just our information. EngagedROM.com will take you to the project website, and then this will link you to a larger survey. And that is it. Staff is available for any questions.

Questions or comments, colleagues? Wendy? Okay.

Is this new? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate all the work on this. I did have a few questions. One is, you know, Matt and I are liaisons to the EAB. They have formed a committee around the landscape manual update. And I just, if you could talk a little bit about how you envision that process. From some of the emails that I've seen, it seems like a lot of the comments have been more focused on homeowners or how people are landscaping their properties. I do think that's an interesting issue. While this is very much focused, you made it very clear on new development and having it more part of the kind of implementing the site plan and all that. I remember last time when we updated it and I looked and I was like, wow, this is like a great document, the diagram on how you properly plant things. So I do think there's a whole dimension of, you know, how do we also get this out into the larger community, thinking about Keep Durham Beautiful, Cooperative Extension, Master Gardeners, you know, all the community gardens, like, you know, I think there could be a larger benefit to this document. I just wanted to raise that issue. That was one of my questions. I have a few others, but I'll just let you respond to that.

As far as the EAB goes, I know that members are forming subcommittees surrounding vegetation management within those native landscapes. We were in a meeting yesterday, and I think that they are going to look towards potentially updating the nuisance code so really thinking about. I don't remember what is what is in is now. Okay. So those inspectors within Housing and Neighborhood Services making sure that we are not penalizing people for having native landscapes as homeowners, right? Because it sort of focuses more on grass and height. So they're going to look at that, and they're also trying to think about what the best sort of plan of action is for talking to the various departments that have easements and how they manage those. So I think that's one part. We did present the landscape manual update to the AAB a few months ago. many of them said great here's some direction but we would like to review the draft once it's published and i said totally fine so we're gonna probably go back to them or at least circle back with them and say hey this is now published would you like to provide more comments to your uh you know question comment around residents using this you know i think that's ultimately the goal it is not just a technical document for staff right we do want residents to be able to use it and so that's part of the reason why we really tried to make it one a more attractive document but also to really work on that accessibility and make it very clear um you know when it's used but just because that's you know how we use it doesn't mean that it can't provide further information for residents um and so i think that hopefully i think you will be much more pleased with the way that this one is laid out in terms of being able to communicate

what it is and how it can help folks in different situations i mean i do think there needs to be a strategy though around how it gets out into the community i mean maybe that's something that eab could look at but we certainly could partner with other organizations to to do that um it's just i don't think it's just going to happen just because it exists the other part of that is you know how how our do we have a strategy on also how we actually train landscape? Because at the end of the day, it's landscape contractors that are going to the subcontractors or whatever. The companies are the ones who are going to be doing this work. Do we currently offer any type of trainings or how does this really get implemented? Because this is something where it really, And I can't imagine, like, in terms of following up, making sure that, like, oh, is that hole really getting dug properly? I mean, you know, so just thinking about what is the strategy around making this really happen.

Yeah, I think that there are definitely some opportunities that we could potentially undertake to talk a little bit more about this and maybe, you know, use our, like, quarterly meetings with the Home Builders Association to hopefully, you know, grab some people in. I will say that, like, when I was hired in 2021 my whole job was just to inspect those new trees and so I would go out there and they would be like well you know I haven't really no one's been holding me to this standard in the same way until you right because I was the first arborist who was hired and that was that's no that's nothing against our like site compliance staff it is just like a different level of knowledge and so I think that you know one having arborists on staff um is incredibly helpful for this. Mike spends a lot of time going out regularly. He is not afraid to fail someone and then say, hey, we need to talk more about this because you're not meeting it. But I think that your point about needing to provide maybe some formal education is well taken.

Okay. And my last question is, I appreciated the You noted that there's going to be highlighted keystone species. Could you talk a little bit more about that?

Yep. So this was a comment that came up during the LDC from members of the New Hope Bird Alliance, really just trying to think more about, you know, there are some native species which really provide a lot of ecosystem benefits. So if you think about oak trees are a great example, right? So they support multiple trophic levels. And so, borrowing from that concept, really trying to get the most bang for our buck where we can, and hopefully, now that this will hopefully be adopted, right, potentially have some updates in the LDC around keystone species as well. But we're also hoping that including that You know, should residents look at the manual and they're trying to decide, you know what should I do having keystones as like an informational piece is also really helpful but yeah trying to identify the species that provide the most ecological benefit. For. You know the least amount of punch I guess. Thank you.

Thank you. I appreciate all the work. A couple of questions I have is, you know, we hear a lot about the sex of the trees that gets planted, male versus female, and what it does to allergies. And so how, and I know, I think at some point we moved away because female species produce fruit and it's annoying and it's messy, but it is better long-term. So some cities that did mass tree planting, Chicago comes to mind. did an excellent job, planted a bunch of male trees. Now they have massive pollen issues. How are we mitigating on that? And then secondly, are we thinking about, you know, I get this is around new and whatnot, but like, how are we incentivizing folks who are turning over, you know, turning over their own yards to, you know, is there opportunities to have like contests, grants, something? And I don't write to really I mean, we know that this is a really easy strategy for climate change, right? This is like low hanging fruit, not to be hilarious there, but around on what we can do that that is not super expensive. turns over, you know, pesticide filled yards with better things, right? And people, you know, it makes people happy at the end of the day. And a lot of stuff is not very happy these days. So how are we thinking about that? And, you know, for electives thinking, you know, small buckets of money that could go a long way to really make community members think about this differently versus just, I know council member risked his way into his garden, but like a lot of people don't have that knowledge necessarily.

yeah i'll tackle that one first i think that you know this is primarily a regulatory tool but i do think that there are opportunities for us to use this and cooperate with folks like keep your own beautiful etc or or the eab right i think they've spent a lot of time in the recent past talking about how they get the word out and they've expressed more interest in like social media and doing events like that so i do think that once this is adopted there is definitely some opportunity for us to reach out to those folks and see what we can do As far as allergies and fruit, I have mixed feelings about this actually. It's like the science is a little bit inconclusive and it's also difficult because there are certain species of tree in which they're either monoecious or dioecious, which means that trees can be both male and female at the same time, or they can be singularly male or singularly female, right? Or they can be some sort of weird or strange mix, depending on the biology of all of it. But that is to say, we... try to regulate around fruit more so in terms of the use right so we didn't we didn't want mulberries or things that provide a ton of fruit to you know be a street tree where it's going to get all over the sidewalk but i don't think that we necessarily got into regulating male versus female outside of thinking about the proposed uses i think thinking about allergies is important but I think that maybe there needs to be a little bit more research on that first.

Thank you, and I hope that y'all are paying attention to that i know we we all read interesting articles along the way and go oh that's i didn't think about that um if we end up you know like wayne drops really popular um if we end up with like a tree you know what i'm saying like like there's a there's a way to make people do a thing and we and i think water our water department and we're a massive drought a lot of the stuff that we did is after the 2008 drought because we were preparing and you know education campaigns and i feel like we to me that's one of the city's biggest success stories so if there's a way to um you know use psychology and people like happy things right like oh there's your azalea bush or your red but whatever like to to be like look kids don't you want to plant this in your yard um mascot yes thank you mr papa there you go mr papa um you know uh i think that that there's a lot of good opportunity there and i'll stop talking thank you so much

I don't have anything to add other than thank you for your hard work. I know when these things come up periodically, they seem like, you know, big elephant in the room, right? And so in addition to everything else you got going on, here you have this update on the plan. So thank you for being so conscientious.

Yeah, agreed. And you mentioned that this was all being done in-house? That is correct. That's awesome. Good, good work. Good work, guys. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, please go ahead.

May I please officially nominate the blueberry for our mascot? It's blue. Durham has blue in their flag. There's Duke blue. There's the county has blue. Durham blue. Durham Bulls. The branches and the leaves turn red or auburn in the fall. So there's Central's colors. It's a fruit. It's a native plant, although anti-fruit. I don't know if plant them. Anyway, I want the blueberry. I'm speaking up for the blueberry bush official mascot. That's all.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Isn't there one in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Just a couple things.

I love the Spanish translation.

Are there other communities that Are we kind of leading the way on that or are our other communities doing that as well?

I will say when we've looked at other communities, I have not seen it. So we might be the first.

That's awesome. I think that's really, really important. That's great. I'm kind of curious. I mean, I know you already have shown us this slide on what's changing and, you know, kind of these six high level pieces. But I'm curious about... any kind of big philosophical changes in direction that you anticipate versus cleanups, improvement in document accessibility, those kinds of things? Do you anticipate, I know that you still have a lot of work to do, but have a new direction that we're going in with this?

Yeah, I think one is that just to go back to this slide, that we are really, really, really prioritizing native species. I think that is a huge shift. And also trying to link both Keystone and native to certain requirements, really making it It goes a little bit beyond incentivizing right, so I think that is a that's a pretty big shift, I think that the details we're definitely thinking a lot more about how we actually inspect plants when we do them. One of which is right now we're sort of drastically changing the way that the detail for tree plantings downtown work. So we're really making some big shifts in terms of like prioritizing native species and providing better planting details. And so I think those are the sort of big philosophical directions. I think one other thing that we can talk about sort of philosophically is that we are using native in a sort of broader way, just knowing that, you know, climate is changing, right? So trying to make sure that, you know, things like a magnolia, which might not be native to this area of the Piedmont, but is native in the Southeast, right? Should it migrate or, you know, it grows well here, just making sure that, you know, we would still call that a native plant. Some might, the native dichotomy gets very like, depends on who you ask, but trying to make sure that we are sort of acknowledging that and trying to provide space for those species. And that was direction that we got from the EAV the first time we went to sort of think about those in relation to a changing climate.

Okay. I guess one other question is, as we hopefully sort of slowly transition from very suburban. I'm not sure we're moving away from that, but very auto centric suburban to taking steps towards something that's more transit friendly and all of that where the building is located up by the sidewalk versus behind parking. are we thinking about places where maybe we don't have any, we don't have any, you know, kind of like bushes that you'd see, you know, next to a gas station or a Walmart in those kinds of places. And instead there's something that's more focused on kind of stormwater retention and that kind of thing.

Yeah. So I think the thing about shrubs botanically is that it's very hard to from a biological level tell you the difference between a tree and a shrub and so, when you think about a forest you think about. canopy trees understory trees and there might be like some like shrubby like small wooded plants but shrubs is more of a horticultural term. And so that was part of the reason in the LDC that folks in the NHBA were advocating for native grasses instead. Because they, one, you will find them more within the forests around here, but two, they provide more of those benefits and they do it better than a shrub. We don't really need to get into that philosophy. I'm getting too deep. But regardless, yeah, I think that we are trying to think about different ways to focus on ecological benefits rather than just, you know, put the plant here. And I think that some of that work needs to happen through the development ordinance.

Awesome.

Any final questions, comments? Yes, go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Chair Baker. So just to make sure I'm clear. So will this also apply to city property, you know, public rights of way managed by the city. And so we'll be implementing this change as well. And does it include like vegetation management as well, like in addition to the types of things we plant, but how we manage them for the greatest psychological benefit to? Or is that certain that intersect with other guidance?

Yeah, so once you start getting into vegetation management, that is getting a little bit more into those specific protocols that those. So, for instance, water management has those easements and they have certain requirements that they must do, right? Like they must mow them at a certain time, etc., And so we don't have prescriptions for vegetation management in that way within this document. But what we do have is for new plantings, what should they be and how should you plant them? As far as managing city easements, I think that that is going to be more of the work that's coming out of that EAV working group. And so they've started reaching out to some of those different departments, because since there are so many departments that have easements and they have different regulatory requirements, trying to figure out if there are ways to sort of change those protocols.

And those regulatory requirements are often state, even federal in some cases? Yep. Okay.

Yep. So it'll be like access to a main or something along those lines, making sure that it's easy and clear. But there might be ways to mow at certain times or do certain practices. And so I think that is part of what that group is trying to sort of untangle.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thanks.

And one final thing you mentioned, Mike will go out and is not afraid to hold developers to the proper standard and tell them that. I just want to lift that up and lend my full support to that. I think that's really, really important. We have standards. There's a lot of different ways to interpret those standards. And so, yes, good job. Tree police. Thank you. Tree police. Police power, so. Okay, one follow-up.

One is just, you know, I do notice with developments, you'll see like a year or two later, the tree has died. So how does that...

fit into all of this yeah so that is tough right because we only have certain mechanisms that we can hold folks to right so once we issue a certificate of occupancy it can be very hard to come back and then say hey you know you were your tree has died in that period um we're definitely trying to think a little bit more about what that could look like you know some municipalities will conduct um inspections on like a One, three, five year basis, things of that nature. I will say that for street trees that we accept the maintenance of we do that initial inspection. Once they are. Those rights of way are considered ready for the recommendation of approval to go to council. They have to provide another bond and we go out within a year. So we go out that second time and we say, hey, trees are alive or dead. But what that mechanism looks like for developments that don't have rights of way is a little bit more complicated. And it's easier for us to hold them to that because we are the ones that will be maintaining those trees through urban forestry. So since we are accepting that asset and that maintenance, we have a little bit more leeway. But we have been talking about the potential of thinking about inspections for landscaping a bit differently.

I mean, I understand the capacity issue. You know, one approach might be random inspections, right? Just people making it known that you will be up to five years. We will be making random inspections. And if we find the trees dead, you're, I don't know, just throwing that out. But thank you.

Thank you all right, thank you great great work, we are 22 minutes ahead of schedule. let's move on to item six brag town small area plan updates hi Lisa.

Apologies. I saw the sign here that said don't mess with the microphone and didn't do the green light. So we are here this morning to talk about the Bracktown region and Oxford Hamlin small area plan. What you'll see in the image here is a revised project boundary and we're going to talk a little bit more about that. So we have a couple of updates generally on the project on the project boundary and on some upcoming engagement that we're planning in concert with community members. So we have been meeting with a group of stakeholders. There's kind of a call put out broadly Kayla had been having several conversations with folks and then i've i've been doing that since she left and we've been able to start designing some engagement together. But some of these updates came out of that work. I did want to mention, there were a number of Community members that wanted to be here this morning, but either because of work conflicts or illness we're not able to be here, but we do have this constants here from brag town so. If there are questions or if there's anything that you want to say when we get a little bit further on, we can do that. Okay, so this is just a refresher of some of the priority areas that were identified in these early conversations with community members, as well as in looking at the engagement data that we've gotten from folks in this community through the Be Heard Durham portal, through the resident survey, through Roxborough Rail Trail engagement, trying to start from what are we hearing from folks? What are some of the issues? And we definitely have uh a lot of different uh kinds of character in this area um so this is just a handful of images from the brag town and oxford hamlin areas in particular kind of showing a little bit of what some of the things are that are out there um We definitely have some areas in common across the two residential sub areas and in. In general, but then, because there are a lot of differences between these two residences, then there are specific issues that each of these groups want to get into as well. So this is our revised sub area map. Essentially we've removed everything except for the greater Bragtown sub area, the Oxford Hamlin sub area, and the Oxford Commons sub area. This came out of, I believe that you all received a letter from community members. It's also attached to this month's agenda item. In our conversations, and specifically in Kayla's work with residents before I jumped in on this, there had been a concern from the get-go about the size of the project area. It is significantly larger than other small area plans that we've undertaken. even just Ragtown in and of itself, we know is a really large neighborhood. So there was a lot of concern about residents having the capacity to support and help engage their neighbors. They're interested in doing some door to door uh going around and engaging folks to make sure that we're really getting good representation from these neighborhoods and don't have the connections and capacity to do that in some of these other areas so uh what we have done is we're focused on these three sub areas for this small area plan and we're going to talk a little bit in a minute about some other planning strategies that we could undertake on some of the areas outside of this new project boundary But as I was saying, we do have some significant differences between the two residential sub areas, Greater Braggtown and Oxford Hamlin. Particularly Oxford Hamlin is largely in the county, whereas Greater Braggtown is primarily in the city. They both have, there's some water and sewer, related concerns that will be handled differently. There are transportation concerns where there are different options because of the difference in jurisdiction. So we'll be getting into some more details on the specifics of those. But also the Oxford Commons area is identified as a transit opportunity on the comprehensive plans place type map. One of the things that we are trying to utilize small area plans for is to before we get to the point where we're trying to have a vision, but we're already have development pressure let's work with Community to identify what is it that folks want to see. As these places will change because we are envisioning that they will change into something that is more transit supportive walkable sustainable things like that so trying to develop that vision before there's the development pressure in place. so there are a few things that we've identified uh that we can undertake for the areas that are now outside of the project boundary we have connected with our colleagues in OEWD in order to start looking at how we could bring resources that they have available to folks on that Roxborough Street corridor at the shopping center those areas that are now commercial areas that are now outside of the project boundary We haven't started that conversation yet, but we are now that folks are back from vacation. We will be doing that next week. So that's an opportunity to just connect folks to resources outside of a specific planning study. We'll also be trying to work with them on doing that. within the small area plan project boundary as well in addition the we could do a couple of different things with other future planning studies it's been a long time since we've done corridor studies but that's an option which may be appropriate for the Roxborough Street corridor there's definitely a lot of transportation concerns there there's the express design project that ncdot kicked off this spring we don't have a current update on that talked to our transportation colleagues yesterday and it's a little bit of a we're not sure what's happening there but so coordination with them on that and trying to develop a city vision for what that looks like to try and present to ncdot is going to be important as well as looking at how we can further support businesses and residents along that corridor And then you know, looking at some sort of neighborhood plan effort around the the transit opportunity area that includes the super compare foods and the adjacent neighborhoods could be a separate planning effort as well, so you have a look like you wanted to say something but.

Yeah, just really quickly. I know BPAC probably three or four years ago did, I forgot what they called it, like a walking assessment of that section of Roxborough as part of their retreat. Might have been in 2023 or 2022. So just circling back with those folks because I think that they did a really good job really thinking through you know that part of Roxborough that that you can tell had like a little its own little tiny commercial area you know so I just don't want to lose that there's some good data out there that's all thank you yeah thank you I will connect with them to get that information

So for the actual small area plan just wanted to share a few updates on kind of what's coming next and the overall timeline here. So we're going to be meeting again next week to continue working with residents to develop and design the engagement. We are finalizing dates right now, but it's looking like the last week in September. We'll be having an engagement session for the entire project area at the Brighton Baptist Church. Focus both on kind of sharing information about what a small area plan is, what it can do, kind of what the benefits are for residents, giving folks a chance to ask questions. We're going to be inviting staff from other departments, city and county to be kind of a way for folks to connect a name and a topic to a person to also be able to answer questions, to share some kind of existing conditions, data with folks, and then have breakout discussions focused on kind of sub area. So letting the neighborhoods kind of get into what are the distinct concerns, priorities that they have. starting from that list that we have adding to it editing it seeing how that we can make that better reflect kind of a broader set of voices so we're working on planning that I also wanted to mention that like we did with both the wall town and the Lakewood West and Lyon Park small area plans we will be sending out a notice in the mail to folks that are inside the project boundary So that will be going out in the next couple of weeks that will be focused on kind of announcing this engagement inviting folks to participate and giving them just a little bit of information about the project in general and where to find updates on the website along the way. Um, so after we do this engagement in September, we're anticipating that we'll be doing a series of kind of deeper likely topic based engagements by sub area for the 2 neighborhood areas. 1st, getting into working with residents and transportation staff to get into the nitty gritty on some of the existing plan recommendations. things on the books with the Ctp. That might be going away, looking at all these different issues, and how we can work on connectivity and safety for folks in the area, for example, but a number of deeper dive sessions on specific topics. We'll be doing that over the next few months, and then will be along the way, letting folks know that we anticipate in early winter we will be focused on the Oxford Commons kind of visioning. So all of the work that we're doing in the meantime can be letting folks know, okay, there is a broader Interest a broader draw for the shopping Center and so building up people's knowledge about the project and that that will be coming and looking at doing that as the third of our focus sub area engagements. So you can see the rest of the schedule here, kind of the rest of winter into early spring, closing out the plan development for an initial draft, releasing the draft plan and doing additional engagement in the spring. And then looking at late spring to summer for the adoption process. And with that, I can answer any questions or I can try to answer any questions.

Thank you so much, Lisa. That's when we go back.

yeah thanks so much Lisa to you and your team for this work and for stepping in yeah um I guess just as a starting point so all those meetings that engagement it's still TBD in terms of scheduling yes we have four dates that we're uh looking to finalize the single in-person session that we're planning um but it's between September 21st and September 29th and we can share that with you all um we should have that sorted in the next day or two

And then I was glad to see the intersection with some of our transportation plans. I'm curious if you're also looking at the parks plan that was released as well.

Yeah, we have had some initial kind of general conversations with Austin and DPR about this plan. That's another department that we want to have represented. in these conversations. So I haven't gotten into detail on that yet, but yeah, that's definitely part of the plan.

Yeah, that's great. I was studying the parks comprehensive plan, and it looked like from access to parks, from a racial income equity standpoint, from an air quality standpoint, kind of all the different things that were looked at, almost every map showed in the Bragtown area a gap for park access.

Yeah. And I know one of the things that's come up, uh, as a significant priority to, I think everyone that I've talked to is having a rec center that's accessible to folks that are in this. It's, it's a long way down to Edison Johnson. And so just trying to have something in the neighborhood again, that's a rec, you know, rec center for the community and for youth in particular. Great.

Thank you. Every part time.

Thank you. Yeah, if y'all could send us the dates so that we can potentially go if we're able to. And then I know that the development that's at the corner where the VFW building, there's like Yes, because there's a few on that same corridor. They were going to have a community space that was part of their rezoning. So are we doing a good are they doing because I know it's private, but like really putting that out in the community because that was one of the big proffers was that they were going to have a community space.

Yeah, I know. So I was talking with Vanessa Mason Evans yesterday. She was unable to be here today. And that was one of the things that she mentioned. So I it sounds like that's still, you know, there's an expectation. There's conversation around that. It's not the scale of like a rec center, but it is a step in the right direction.

Okay, because I just don't want folks to, that was a number of years ago now, and I just don't want like the importance that that's there. So yeah, not the full amenity that the community needs, but it is at least an interim that can get us there. That's all. Thank you. Absolutely.

yes i know commissioner valentine and i both have been there recently it's actually fantastic i recommend everybody go out there and see it because the quality um you know i've seen a lot of affordable housing projects this developer has it is very high quality materials and design And the community space is going to be really nice. It is prioritizing veterans. There's going to be co-location of different veteran services, their resources, but there is also space for um the brag town neighborhood association is my understanding and other groups um to also use that space um so i don't i don't know the details of the programming schedule or anything but i think that is still the plan and maybe you know anything different than that i mean that's all i have yeah i mean the programming and all that sort of thing is to come Yeah. So I appreciate how this has been shrunk a little bit in response to community concerns that it was, you know, trying to bite off too much. And I do wonder, I know Oxford Manor is not part of this. Of course, it's right next to it. Are we aware of what the plans are for redeveloping that site?

Yes, great question. That was one of the things that came up as a resident question. So I've reached out to Karen Lotto and she and folks that work with her are going to be available to come to our meetings as well and share information, answer questions for residents. So my understanding is that they are essentially trying to slowly move people out of Oxford Manor so that when they do a rad conversion, they aren't having to relocate people because that is very difficult and disruptive and often you lose. People from kind of that right structure that type of affordable housing, and so they're trying to slowly move people out of Oxford Manor and into other housing. will allow them to get to a point where they can do the redevelopment of Oxford Manor without doing that big relocation.

Yeah, and Sankofa Landing would be right across the street. They have a lot of Vash vouchers. units and others. I forget the percentage of affordable units. It's actually pretty high that are under 30% AMI. So anyway. I'm really glad you're going to try to do very broad engagement. in the area. I was wondering, what role will something like asset mapping be a part of this? Because there are a lot of important assets in this area, all types. So just

Yeah, absolutely. So I think so we're still working together with residents to kind of design what that engagement looks like. But definitely that was one of the ideas that we had is as we break out into the three sub areas and have some questions for discussion that we also have maps out where people can kind of start identifying both barriers, but also what are those assets in the community to help make sure that we can include all of that mapping as part of the small area plan. I also am hoping to I have gone out myself just to try and start familiarizing myself better with kind of the full area. But I am hoping to go with community members and do some on site, you know, going around the community to do some of that as well. So okay.

I also, I appreciate the different areas of focus that you laid out. And I think that one of the positive things about the small area planning, while, you know, it doesn't have the, maybe the kind of teeth that we would hope it could, but what there is the option for is as, you know, council member Kopach, you know, raised the Durham Parks and Rec plan and thinking about transportation, like there's, it seems like there's the opportunity to tie a lot of things that may be identified with things that are are in the works or potential sources of funding or prioritizing in plain like and i hope that we can kind of focus on those things like what can we do

Yeah, absolutely.

What can we actually really do and things that are like low hanging fruits or things that we could do quickly. Yeah.

Yeah. So I was talking with some of our transportation partners yesterday. So both with Lauren Grove, our Vision Zero coordinator. So one of the things that she's sharing with us are results from their walk audit and some of the things that came up and looking at Dearborn Drive and specific safety oriented improvement. So both old Oxford and East Club and Dearborn are all high injury network roadways. A large part of this area is also an equity emphasis area in that work. And so looking at how we can do some additional engagement around some of the vision zero work as part of this process, as well as looking for ways to take some of that other work that's happening uh information and priorities from other plans like the bike walk plan like the parks plan and pull that into this so that it's because we know we have all these plans and sometimes it can be a little bit difficult for them to talk to each other and if we're looking at you know a neighborhood or a small part of our city how can we pull all of that together and make sure it's talking to each other and are there recommendations that we can make to kind of fill in any gaps as we're looking at the way all of those plans are coming together so I think that would be important yeah that sounds great um

And my last question is, you noted that part of the Oxford Hamlin area is actually in the county currently, but it is, I assume, within the urban growth boundary. Is that correct?

I don't know where the exact line is, but there is, yes, at least some of it is inside there.

Okay, so that's going to be really important to have on the map, because I was looking for that. Where is the urban growth boundary in the Oxford-Hamlin area? And then also, I would be interested to know exactly where is... city infrastructure like the pump station where do the water utility you know where do the water lines and and do we know how exactly which homes have failing septic systems and i i think that's going to be a very important thing for us to focus on i mean because if people don't have access to safe you know water or you know have sewage issues that that is really basic And I think that that that is something and that's where we really need to work together with Durham County Public Health and the folks that do that. And what would it look like to really make sure we those folks get, you know, access to city utilities. So I'm really interested in that.

yeah so that's a huge topic that has you know come up as a priority for this plan, specifically for the Oxford hamlin folks. And so, bringing both our city folks and our county folks into conversation there because I think there are some feasibility issues with connecting to city water and sewer. But yeah providing existing conditions on where that infrastructure is. I think there are some residences where there's a more feasible connection and more it might make more sense to look at annexation for properties that are accessed off of Dearborn, but for then some of the areas that are off of Old Oxford. My understanding is that there have been some efforts to look at the feasibility of connecting to infrastructure already that we need to get into a deeper conversation around and see, okay, if that's not feasible, then what opportunities are there to try and address those issues? Because they're a big, big concern for folks.

Thank you.

Councilmember or Commissioner? Yeah, go ahead.

Good morning. So just a couple quick questions for you. In regards to your noticing the residents, can you just give me a little bit more of a language accessibility for it? So we'll go out multiple languages.

Yeah, it's going to be in English and in Spanish.

And then also, will you work with the city's comms department to make sure you advertise it on social media as well to ensure you generate the greatest response from residents?

Yeah, so we definitely, Sarah over here is our communications contact with them. And so she helps us put together flyers so that there's just kind of more accessible information that gets sent through comms. We also have interest from the neighborhood in like taking flyers out and door to door. So definitely have their help with communication.

Okay. Thank you. And then also like, just curious about the discussion around OEWD and like, can you just give a little bit more context around like what type of partnerships folks are looking for?

Yeah, I think from what I know so far, there's interest in getting information about small business support programs that are in place to small business owners that could benefit from that. I think there's also opportunity for us to work with OEWD to figure out are there programs, supports, resources that people need that we maybe don't have in place yet and see if there are possibilities for developing any of those. We've had some good conversation with Joshua and with Grace and OEWD, partly also around comprehensive plan implementation in general and some of the strategic plan initiatives around neighborhood scale commercials. So I think there's a whole bunch of conversation around, you know, we know we need housing. We talk about housing a lot, but let's also make sure that we're putting in place the small business support and opportunities for that small scale commercial that folks are also asking for.

And just for my colleagues, didn't we cut the money out of their budget that would have provided support from that for this fiscal year or no? Didn't we take that $300,000 away from them or what fund was that?

yeah can i answer that yeah okay um we took the so for folks who were doing like facade grants that's gone but there's other supports within so if like there's businesses who just need technical expertise and things like that in the corridor that money is still available because i thought the 300k like that we use for the businesses on morning glory as well as fayetteville street that money was taken away yeah but that's all improvements to actual structure

Okay. So that's my point, though, because it's kind of like you think about some businesses on that corridor, they make some structural improvements. There's one that like put on a record that we did.

Yeah. For this fiscal year, it's gone. But that was part of the OEWD is going through a whole planning to identify what are the, my hope at least would be that next year and their budget asks, they'd have real targeted asks is like what, do an analysis of all of the programs you've done and what's the most, what's been the most beneficial and where are the gaps and what do we need to fund?

Okay, thank you for that. I just want to put that on the record so we can make sure we're considering that as we are talking about discussions and no one was actually available in a moment.

Yep, thank you.

Commissioner Valentine, do you have? Yes, thanks, Chair. So we've talked about redeveloping Oxford Manor and moving people out to other housing. One of the housing alternatives that has been brought up is Sankofa Landing, and there's some other communities being developed along Old Oxford Highway. Matter of fact, there's a lot of development in this area, yes. What has the engagement been like with the current residents of Oxford Manor with regards to the future of that location?

that i'm not sure of so my information about this like i said has come from karen lotto who's at the housing authority and i know they have both efforts that they undertake because it's trying to help communicate but also requirements for how they're doing these things from the you know federal law requirements so i can find out and i think there's opportunity for us to bolster that as part of this effort. And I guess one thing I wanted to mention is that, like with our other, particularly with Lakewood, West End and Lyon Park, you know, we have a smaller project area, but we know that the connections to things outside of that project area are also really important. So, you know, specifically around transportation, but other things as well. It's not that everything outside of that boundary is just like, okay, we don't see it, but we will be looking at how we can connect around resources and transportation to those things. It just won't be the primary focus of the area or of the plan. But yeah, I'm sorry, I don't have more information, but I can find that out.

Well, I'm hoping that we're mindful of that community and its importance, particularly in that sector of the city. People who live in Oxford Manor are residents and they're part of our community. And I hope that that consideration will land on everyone the same way. uh these small area plans take me back to something that uh i say with regards to the growth in durham county generally and indian city as we develop and approve these projects we should be thinking at the same time what the infrastructure needs are and this particular area of the city and the county um takes me to something that you mentioned with regards to transit opportunities and so i can remember uh quite a number of years ago when venture park was approved we had an opportunity to share some time together at venture park uh here recently that promises were made to residents um particularly uh in this particular area about jobs But the fact of the matter is, is there's no access in this particular area. And so bus service stops at Dearborn and goes south. We need to be thinking about how we can move quicker to accommodate this growing area and the needs of the residents in this area, particularly those residents in which promises were made. And so I'm gonna be looking very closely in this particular area to ensure that those things happen. And also wanted to mention, since we were talking about trees earlier, this part of our county has probably lost more trees than any part of the county in such a brief period of time. And so when we talk about climate change and our reactions, we should be thinking about this particular area of our county, stretching from Roxborough, through East Carver all the way down through Red Mill Road, quite frankly, as you speak to the urban growth boundary, which I believe that that area takes us toward the urban growth boundary. So if we can be mindful of our infrastructure needs as we continue to grow, we want to grow smart. Thank you.

And I'll just add that trees are critical infrastructure. I have one friend who likes to say if they produced Wi-Fi, we would be a lot more mindful and in awe of what they provide us, but they only help us to breathe. So this gets at... My questions get at a bit of what Commissioner Valentine and Commissioner Jacobs were talking about with small area plans. You know, and just thinking about, like, what are the ways that we can, you know, work, you know, as a city, as a county, you know, to, you know, to take action when these are brought forward. I know there's significant commitment of resources by our planning department to come up with these plans. I think sometimes there's, you know, you know, a sense that they are promises when something is in a plan, when that's not in fact what they are. And so we have this issue of sort of expectation and reality that can come with a small area planning process. And so my question is like, you know, building on Commissioner Jacobs questions like what are the other tools we have to then help, you know, make them real in the lives of residents who are spending time in this engagement process and kind of pouring their hopes and dreams into it? I guess one practical question is, does it give us the opportunity to prioritize CIP dollars into areas where we have smaller area plans? Does it lead us to strategic acquisitions? What are the levers at our disposal to bridge from the idea that can seem like a promise into something that's more of a reality for folks?

yeah I mean definitely coordination and like highlighting needs for the CIP is an intention with these. I think another thing. So in that kind of connection with the work that other departments are undertaking like looking for ways that we can take programs and implementation efforts that. are funded in different ways by other departments and focus like there's an opportunity to prioritize some of the safety needs that are related to the vision zero work in this area, so we know there's a lot of needs, and we know that we have this vision zero effort and we want you know we're putting. uh funds and projects towards that end uh but how can we prioritize where it can have the greatest impact in the near term um so that we're not choosing the wrong uh implementation first because you know some things will have a greater impact and residents are the best uh resource for helping us understand where they're going to have the most impact on their safety and access to things so i think that's another piece that can come from kind of pulling those different plans together. I also think just in general, I know, you know, in talking about the reduction in resources around the business support efforts, like that's a challenge. But one of the biggest things that we hear from residents is how hard it is to get the information that they need from the city and so these efforts are a huge opportunity for us to bring information resources to people about what's in place already and I think we can uh do some more you know I don't know if there are other things that Sarah or Scott wants to add in terms of um specific things we can undertake but those are a couple of things that come to mind as you're asking that question

Well, I appreciate you mentioning the high injury networks and Vision Zero and specifically mentioned, you know, Dearborn being one of those. And so we're going to be looking at, you know, a constrained CIP that's going to have orders of magnitude more requests, right, than we're going to have funding available for, even though this next year is one of our, you know, biggest investments maybe ever in, you know, in the CIP. Is that something there where like then Dearborn would be identified as a high injury network It's part of the small area planning process. And so that would somehow get additional attention and in terms of like prioritization for when something like a sidewalk and Dearborn would get done.

Yeah, I mean, I think that is the ideal is that if we have a particular CIP project that Is identified as a priority from these different efforts that that heightens its overall priority in the tip list, so I think that's. Part of what we're doing with this effort is identity identifying what are the priorities that have been established in these different planning efforts that. overlap in this area and then trying to see what you know if we do have. Multiple efforts that are identifying a particular area as a priority than getting that as a raising that as a higher level concern and priority in the tip overall.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I know that part of that's getting done right now, the Dearborn sidewalk, because it was a bond project. So if you drive out there right now, you'll see flashing light on dollars at work for this many. So I think I'm glad that that's moving forward. And I thought it was also part of the sidewalk. Yeah, because the sidewalk's part of the bond. I have to look at that. Okay. I'm almost positive it was part of the bond package. When we're, because planning in many ways is that kind of high level, like y'all are in on so many different plans and you're coordinating with so many different departments, I think it would be helpful to Councilmember Kopach's point, you know, having some kind of filtering system that if it's like, this is a thing that's identified in these different ways, then it gets some kind of color, I don't know, somewhere. So it's very visual for council because we had this last year with the CIP and I think that many of us on council are frustrated and I think that that's been communicated very clearly to city staff about quickness of project turnaround, project management, etc. And so I think It's hard for us as decision makers to know that that's happening if there's not a way that it's coded for us to see it easily. And so when we get a massive CIP project list and we don't have the kind of like, oh, that sidewalk is actually a priority in these three plans, but it's project 10. No, it's not going to be project 10 anymore. It needs to be project one. And so that's what we really need to see, that alignment, and this is now the third year in a row I've said it, that alignment well ahead of budget season so that when we are in our budget retreats and we are talking about CIP, we are then really clear on if we need to reorganize projects. At the beginning, not in May, because then it gets hard for staff. Those aren't decisions we should be making at budget work sessions in May. Those are decisions that need to be made in February. So I'm saying it in GCCPC and I'll be saying it during work sessions, but y'all are kind of our guides in many ways because of all the departments you're interacting with.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Comments, questions, anything else?

I just want to respond to the issue that you've raised about the opportunity to bring information about resources and following up on what several folks have already said about access to jobs. I think there'd be a great opportunity to have folks from the city and the county have been partnering on demand. service to get to jobs in this area and make sure that residents know like if they want to go get a great manufacturing job in Trayburn, Or there's jobs now at the Venture Industrial Park also that we are paying for an on-demand service for this area that I don't think enough people know about. So I hope that when you have your sessions, you can have somebody there to speak about the on-demand service. Thank you.

All right, thank you. I don't have any questions. Just wanted to raise up a couple, a few different things. We are a mid-sized city in the South of the United States. So we don't have a lot of power to do a lot of things. But one thing, we only have a handful of things that we actually have some sway in. And one of those is looking at how people get around in their daily lives and making that easier for people. And going through the planning process to meet private land development, and we have zoning authority there, and public spaces, streets, parks, other kinds of facilities, and make all those pieces work together so that people can get to places safely and quickly and easily in their daily lives. And so I think that this kind of work is vital in achieving one of the things that we actually have power over at the local level in a mid-sized city in the South. So I think that's important. engagement. Sometimes I feel like we talk about doing more engagement or less engagement and which is the right way. And I think we just need to make sure that we are doing great engagement and and making sure that when people show up in and they are in a room and we have them there that we use their hour of time as well as possible that not a minute is wasted that we aren't uh tiring people out from engagement that we aren't asking too narrow of questions and limiting people's ability to think big, but that also we aren't just asking one single large question and not having any direction and keeping people to, you know, within the framework of what we can actually address. And so I think just making sure that we are using people's time as efficiently as possible is important. And then I also think it would be really great, you know, what do we want to come out of this with? a great implementation chapter. And so that would probably include some big picture items. What are the big takeaways? What are like four big takeaways from this that we want to tackle? what are some things that we can do and right after we adopt it or in the first year after adopting it and then what are a list of ideas that maybe we can't we don't have the resources to to address right now but we still need a place a container to keep those ideas for if suddenly there's federal money or state money or If a developer comes along, do we know what things we should expect from them or what proffers we want to request from them? Or if we want them to contribute to something that then another developer and then the city combine resources to contribute to that benefits the broader community. I think having a great implementation chapter would be really important. And so that's all I have. But other than that, I think that the plan that's laid out here, and I know you're taking over from Kayla real quick today. And so I appreciate you being able to answer all these questions. But I think the plan that's laid out here is pretty good. And Ms. Constant, did you want to add anything? No? Okay. She did a good job. All right.

Thank you.

All right, thank you so much and Lisa I think you're up next to.

Lisa Miller- Yes.

All right, moving on to item seven urban design studios introduction.

Lisa Miller- It should be at least the presentation will be a quick one. Lisa Miller- So again i'm Lisa Miller, with the planning department, just in case anybody jumps into the recording right now. So I am going to just reintroduce the Urban Design Studio tool to you all this morning. It is something that we used to do maybe a decade or so ago, back when our director was my supervisor. on the urban design team in the department. There's definitely a lot of things that have come up where this tool could be useful again. So we wanted to it is included in our work program for this year and just wanted to reintroduce this kind of idea to you all. So this is language from the work program. So it's a new ongoing item. Urban Design Studios involve planning, organizing, and facilitating design-focused public outreach events like workshops, charrettes, and presentations for special projects. They are design-focused, community-involved, site-specific, visioning, They are done on request where there is public ownership, public interest. If it's not public ownership, it needs to be a willing partner who does hold that property. And it's a quick effort. So just wanted to mention a few past projects. We worked, I think it was at the request of our transportation director at the time, Mark Aronson, assisted with site identification and design considerations for what is now the parking deck that's in place at Morgan and Rigsby. There's been a number of efforts over the years at looking at the pedestrian corridor that goes along from Blackwell to Corcoran to Foster. There were some specific efforts around that that we undertook. The space that is referred to as Black Wall Street Gardens now, that was kind of instigated by some interest in private use of that space, but it also became like, what do folks want to see with this space? And we had some great work by our general services department in making improvements there. Holland Street, the little cobblestone kind of alley over off of East or West... off of Chapel Hill Street where the Durham is now as part of the development of the reuse of that hotel into usable space. Again, looking at modifications along that that were taking up right of way space and then some involvement in looking at the former police headquarters site. So those are a few examples just to kind of give you a flavor there really can be quite different from each other kind of what the goals are what type of site it is and the the focus is really that we're trying to build some sort of vision around a site rather than kind of a neighborhood and that there is a public interest in that that we're trying to build a community consensus around So again, city or county owned properties or private development sites that have both an interest from the owner or developer and a high level of community interest or importance. That's kind of the initial eligibility aspect, I guess. The resources that go into this, we have gone, we've provided an introduction to this tool to our entire department and pulled together a group of folks that we can draw from as these come up. And so there's a number of folks with different types of design expertise or facilitation expertise that we can pull into creating materials, helping facilitate things like that. We also, you know, depending on the project likely will involve other city or county staff, particularly most of these have come from, you know, either work with transportation or general services or another department that has some site or effort that they're looking for us to help them build a vision around We've also worked with different kind of design professionals that have been retained for that site to help support creating materials both before and after these sessions, as well as community design professionals. We've worked with some folks from Durham area designers, but we're intending to do kind of a similar call for interest from folks in the design community to create kind of an on-call list of hey, we've got this project, who can help support making this happen quickly? So just a quick overview of kind of the anticipated process and timeline. So this starts with us getting a request to do one of these, which could come from a number of different places. They often come from the administration just because of the types of projects that come for this type of work. The initial effort we'd try and within about a week, look at what our staff availability is the feasibility of the project and Sarah young our planning director will make a decision on whether this is a request we can fulfill based on that information. um then we would spend a few weeks preparing materials you know some of the images that you saw on the previous slides are things that we pulled together to help folks understand the existing conditions goals for the site that can help folks provide input and then host that session kind of within about a month month and a half from that decision and then following the session pull together summary materials again this will depend largely on what the actual site is and project goals are what exactly those materials look like, but somehow pulling together a summary of kind of what that vision what tenants came out of that engagement and share that report so overall timeline of. Just about two months or two to three months. And that's it. So yeah, that's the, the big picture things are, these are things we get as a request. Uh, we determine, uh, the feasibility of our, uh, able to take this on. Sarah makes that determination and we quickly pull together materials and host a session where we can develop that sort of community vision.

Thank you. Great presentation. Really, really important work. Comments, questions, the left. To the right. Council Member Kovac.

Thank you, Chair Baker. Thanks for the presentation. Exciting. I think you've highlighted some sites that are really clear strategic priorities for the Council, like the former police headquarters. So excited to see what role it plays as we're thinking about the overall long term plan for the different aspects of that site. I'm curious to learn more, too, or just focus more on the Holland Street, that you've identified that as a priority.

These were past projects.

Oh, it was a past project.

Those are all things where we had been asked to do an effort like this. Okay.

So I'm sorry I misunderstood that because it also seems like an opportunity for future planning as well in that area. And I guess like just wondering how this kind of design shred process when you're working with you know, city, county, private developers, how it like intersects with the opportunity for kind of strategic sale or acquisition of property as well. And if that ever comes into play, you know, because I was, I just had in my mind Holland Street sort of future thinking, because I think that building at 316 Holland behind the Durham right now is for sale.

Okay.

And what's that?

Where contact was?

I think so. Yeah. Like the yellowish building. At least that's what it said on the DDI website.

Okay.

And then the city has like a surface lot that we own on Morgan Street.

Yeah.

That also is like a highly... yeah which to your baker's point it's just sort of like you know lots like they go up to streets that could be like activated in really interesting ways and just some of those alleys in there just have the potential to be something really interesting which is part of the ddi blueprint right so like does this ever intersect then with like deployment of uh you know i guess either sale or acquisition of property to kind of bring the design to life

Yeah, I mean, so you mentioned the lot that's still in place along Morgan, next to the armory. So essentially that effort that resulted in the parking deck being built at Morgan and Rigsby, we started with transportation saying okay we've got these two parking lots let's look at feasibility of building a parking structure. on one of these sites, try and figure out which site is more appropriate, what other uses, design elements, what sorts of things do people want to see as part of that, and then went into the process of getting that developed. it is very much a part of kind of how, and that's why the kind of public ownership of land is where I think there's the most opportunity for us to use this tool to make sure that we're getting a good, like developing a good community vision for what sorts of things to pull into the development of a piece of property or redevelopment of a piece of property, if that were the case. So we're also kind of in very beginning conversation with uh folks in general services around kind of city owned uh property in general um and i know there's some interest they're looking at kind of the use of parking facilities trying to figure out if there are higher and better uses for some of those properties and this is definitely a tool that could be used to help bring resident perspectives into our city making process to develop a quick vision for what could happen

Yeah, the idea that we're trying something innovative and nimble I think there's really a need for it. I kind of think, oh gosh, what if this had been around when all this stuff was happening around Northgate and Walltown? That would have been a great opportunity to bring people together and also Heritage Square as well. I like the idea this would be something very kind of quick. That's the antithesis of how we normally do things. And of leveraging a lot of the local talent that we have. There are so many local... architects designers you know developers that are you know who really want to be helping in this conversation and so uh and and also the opportunity to really bring city and county staff together for instance for us it's not so much General Services that does this work, it's actually our engineering department. So I just wanted to raise that because in the presentation it refers to General Services, but for us, that who's taken the lead on all of our, you know, our 300 and 500, all of our kind of really interesting you know, outside the box projects. They have been led by engineers, a very small but mighty and our open space and real estate staff. um that those are the folks that have done amazing things um so um but yeah i i like the idea of this like when you said you're gonna turn around in a week like i'm like yes so i really hope that we can be like a quick response team because to your point matt like i didn't know about that i think that's a really great uh very important that in this environment we have we have we're very fortunate we have the city and the county own some very key properties especially in downtown but we are very constrained we don't have a big downtown we have very limited limited land and there's also not a lot of opportunities for for redevelopment but there but there are also With the parking lots and things like that. So I think we need to stay true to that, this mission of like, can we really, I think it's going to be a challenge for us. Can we really do something quick and dirty when we need to? So I look forward to how this all unfolds.

So I very much appreciate that. This is one thing that I am very excited to bring back. Obviously it was, you know, our baby back in the day. Lisa, you and I had a baby. People don't know that. But one thing I think to your comments is the reason that I really need these to be initiated through the administration and not like we're just going to take over requests from the public or from whoever is because in order for us to be nimble and quick with that turnaround with our limited resources we cannot be inundated with requests right so they need to be vetted through both administrations first And then I will get involved and see whether we can do it and when we can do it, that kind of thing. So this is kind of our initial launch and we'll see kind of where this goes. But I also wanted to say that kind of for the record for the public, because I know folks watch these meetings and sometimes it may not be super clear how some of these programs operate.

To your point, Sarah, are you all briefing our administrative leadership about this and how this will work so that they're aware that it needs to come that way? Yes. Okay.

yes um i'm very excited about this i'm curious if you're looking at other cities urban design studios i know charlotte like has an actual studio like street level they have seven planners um and put out a lot of work i'm just curious if you're looking at other

yeah I mean we have looked at you know there, there was a goal at one point to try and move in that direction, and I think there's interest again in because I think urban design can be kind of seen as like a. Nice to have like an add on like a luxury, but it is the essential way that we interact with our surroundings, and so I think. there's an opportunity for us to start kind of helping folks understand and looking at how we specifically can bring our equity and engagement efforts into conversation with urban design, because I think there's a lot of places where that isn't done. And I think that's part of why it gets seen as can be seen as like an add on. And so we know, you know, we, some of our partners in past urban design studios, you know, we worked with folks from the Raleigh Urban Design Center. So yes, we are aware of and have looked at and have interest in kind of building more urban design awareness and efforts kind of in Durham.

Thank you so much. Looking forward to this.

Thank you all.

All right. Item eight. We've talked in the past about just having this on the agenda versus presenting it, but we can walk through it.

Yeah, I will definitely not walk through all the things. I will just point out there's two, we have two new projects on there. First is the Walltown Street 9-league closing, which is something that came out of the Walltown Small Area Plan. We don't have the schedule for that yet, but wanted to let you know that that will be coming soon. If you could look at all the little arrows, there's a lot of stuff munching up in this fall, so we're... We're going to need to carefully calibrate our engagement efforts so that we don't have too much going on at one time. And then also, our next heritage community that we'll be starting sometime this fall is for Grant Street, which is kind of a subset of the Hayti area, which was the community that requested one for this fiscal year.

Questions or comments, colleagues?

No?

Yeah, I like this. I think this is really helpful for us to visualize all the different moving pieces. And I also, you know, every month it's going to be a little bit different because project timelines have to adjust, things happen. And so, but this helps us see all the different moving pieces. So awesome.

All right.

Thank you. All right. And with that, we are adjourning 22 minutes early. Thanks so much. Great meetings here.