City Council - Regular Meeting

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Which clock is right? My watch says 7:30. But this thing says 7:28. We don't get our cards anymore. Oh, I don't know. Okay. Well, we're going to go ahead and get started on our work session. Uh, thank you all for being here and we'll hear I'll turn it over to the manager to introduce our topics. So, we have two topics this morning. Thank you, mayor and council members. Uh, the first off, we're going to start with Sally and an update on all things Bravo. And I think uh there's some materials in front of you as well.

Great. Good morning everyone. Appreciate the opportunity to be here bright and early with you. Uh we are super grateful to partner with the city of De Moine to do the work that we do. Uh I do want to especially thank council member Simson who represents the city of De Moine on the Bravo board. He will actually be serving as our board chair for FY27. So I'm looking forward to working with him. I also really want to thank the

You're welcome. Thank you, Mike, for serving. Also want to thank the staff. The city of De Moines has been an incredibly good partner. Uh Scott Sanders and Jen Schulty in the administration and then Ben Paige and Jenny Richmond and Aaron Graves all in parks and wreck have been essential partners as we're moving the projects forward. So we want to thank everyone for their time and commitment. Um we invite I invite questions but I'm going to roll through a couple of slides. Just jump in. Uh most of this is information you're familiar with, but not too many new faces at your table. Uh just as a reminder though, Bravo has been serving as the region's arts council since 2004. Basically, we see our role as aligning arts and culture with everything else the region is trying to achieve. The model is quite simple. Bravo has 16 agreements, uh, individual agreements with 16 cities and Pulk County, and we leverage hotel motel tax funds to execute a regional strategy to support arts, culture, and community. Uh, it's important for you to understand that this revenue makes up more than 95% of Bravo's annual funding. We are intentionally built to rely on this single revenue stream. Uh, we don't do additional fundraising on purpose. That's for two reasons. One, we do not want to compete with the organizations we were formed to support. And second, it really helps us keep our administrative costs low if we were to be raising money that would require additional staff and additional strategies and would cost dollars that we are otherwise able to put directly into the community. We are governed by a board of directors that includes one representative from every community that is investing in Bravo. So, every single city has a voice at our table. Uh this is important to note because Bravo has only ever existed as a regional entity. Balancing our charge to broadly serve the metro and individual voices about the needs of single communities has been

really integral to the success of our model. Um even though our our charge has always been broad, grant making is always our has always been our primary tool for serving the um delivering on our promise and Bravo meets a need for a transparent and best practice regional investment of public funds that is efficient, impactful, and accountable. Um, some of you have been around for a while but may not remember that prior to Bravo, every single city was meeting with every single nonprofit and they were making individual decisions about investments. The city then had to process those investments, manage and evaluate those investments and then you had to start over again the next year. This took an incredible amount of city time and resources for the staff and for the council, not to mention the dollars that you were putting out the door. But it also required each community to create their own criteria, have their own strategy, and their own process for allocating and evaluating available funds. So just for reference, instead of one morning presentation from me, you could have an individual presentation from the 72 current Bravo cultural partners that report providing substantive impact to the city of De Moine. Uh through Bravo, however, all of the applications are reviewed and scored and funded. We use a thorough and transparent process that includes Bravo board members, cultural partners, and community members. Uh this process relieves all of you from having to make those decisions, especially for organizations that are led by your neighbors and your friends and your residents. Uh general operating support for nonprofits has accounted for the majority of Bravo's investments. And this year, as I said, we're investing in 83 organizations. They are located in 14 of the 17 28e communities. Um, many of these organizations are not well known outside of their individual city, but they are meeting important local needs

and providing critical pathways for close to home creative engagement. Um, each year when they apply to Bravo, we do evaluate their applications. We don't just give them money, they have to submit information for us. And these vibrant local organizations are really essential to a vibrant region. uh they're a critical pathway for us to provide direct funding to the cities that are investing in Bravo and they are also really important assets to individual communities. Um we do however understand that Bravo's investment in those regional organizations, those larger entities that maybe a community only needs one of. We know that those are also really important to continue to provide world-class experiences to our city. Um, we do understand that these regional organizations are the most likely to draw a broad audience and they're also driving the cultural tourism that feeds the hotel motel tax cycle, which is why these larger organizations are already receiving more than 70% of the funding from Bravo. So, we do find these smaller local organizations are critical to a robust cultural ecosystem and we're feeding the cycle at the top with investments in these large organizations. Our board consistently feels that this balance between local investment and regional investment is really serving our region well. Again, uh Bravo serves as a regional entity. So, we were not designed to track local impact and a dollars in dollars out measure absolutely does not reflect the Bravo the value that Bravo is bringing to our partnership. Um, we know that more than 600,000 Metro residents crossed municipal boundaries last year to engage in the region's vibrant cultural offerings and for every single 28E partner, resident participation in Bravo funded organizations very closely matches community size. Um, but we do understand that local data is your job and uh we want to make sure that you understand even though grant years don't overlap

with fiscal years, you can see there is significant return on the investment from dollars invested by the city of De Moines. Uh these numbers on the screen do not reflect public art grants, passport to culture or any of the other programs that Bravo is providing that are adding value to the city of De Moines. Uh this represents approximately 50 of the 83 organizations that are headquartered in the city of De Moines. Sally, did you want to mention the footnote? Just change in process.

Yes, it's going to look our numbers are going to look a little funny uh for the next year as we adjust um because of changes to the 28e agreement that were made last year. The city of De Moines was passing funds, hotel motel tax dollars into the zoo and Bravo was giving funding to the zoo. What we did is we just combined those investments. So there's not actually been a change in the dollars going to the zoo. It's just that now instead of there being two pathways, there's a single pathway and it's all coming through Bravo. That's going to artificially inflate our numbers this year. It's going to look like the city of De Moine is giving Bravo more uh when in fact the dollars are still going the same place. It's just a different a different pathway. Any other questions about that? Okay. Thank you, Scott. So, um, beyond those investments in those regional organizations and the ones that are headquartered in De Moines, I I do want to make sure that you understand that residents of the city of De Moines are participating in organizations all across the metro. Uh, we know that the De Moines residents are the number one users of Bravo supported organizations and programming. More than 228,000 tickets were sold to De Moine residents last year by the organizations that can track that information. We also know that 161,000 uh free programs were accessed by De Moine residents and student engagement was exceptionally high with more than 85,000 student participation experiences. I think it's again clear that these data clearly show that De Moines's regional investment is also directly benefiting residents of the city. Uh we know that the legislature continues to discuss property tax reform and we do understand that many cities are facing immense pressure for your available funds. Uh as your community conversations continue, please again remember that Bravo has virtually no ability to replace any lost hotel motel

tax revenue. And the organizations that Bravo is supporting are already generating the vast majority of their revenue from other sources. So the likelihood of being able to backfill any loss support from Bravo is very low. Uh that means that reductions in investment in Bravo will likely reduce the availability of accessible and affordable programs or engagement opportunities for your residents. It will also, I promise you, increase competition for available funds and put increased pressure on city staff and the council to allocate any available dollars effectively and accountably. The asks won't go away. They just will come at you from a different direction. We do take our role as your partner quite seriously. We know that you're not an ATM and we don't get to just count on an annual investment without serving as a partner and doing what we can to support policies that make your continued support possible. Um the only problem with that is we don't have a lobbyist and we're not especially influential. However, we did uh do what we could to produce some data to support the value of investing in Bravo in a way that aligns directly with state and regional priorities. There was hopefully a one-pager included in your packet showing that information. We have distributed that to the Iowa League of Cities, the Technology Association of Iowa, the Iowa Business Council, Iowa Department of Economic um and uh partnership, business leaders, many many others hopefully making the case that investing in the arts means investing in everything the state is trying to achieve. A key talking point is that the current regional cultural ecosystem that we are supporting is generating approximately $31 million annually in local and state tax revenue. That's through the stays in hotels and shopping and spending on meals and cars. Uh

that's exceptionally high ROI for the investment cities are making in Bravo. We have efficiently and effectively leveraged regional resources for more than 20 years and we really appreciate the opportunity for continued partnership. Um there are lots of ways to find out more about Bravo if you want to talk to um Council Member Simson about that or reach out to me. I encourage you to do that. I'm happy to take any questions you may have. But again, really just want to thank you for your continued investment. We're proud of the partnership and hope that we can continue to do good things. Does anyone have any questions?

Going back to the pie chart with that there are two number ones that are outside the Can you explain what that is? Um two organizations. Well, I don't know. It's that there's um go back a couple more. They only have one cultural partner. Is that it? Say again. Uh, so on this pie chart, yes. Oh, there wasn't space to put one in the sliver of the pie. We're limited by the technology of our time. Okay, gotcha. Okay. All right. So, that means that they have one organization culture. That doesn't mean that their people aren't using all the other.

We know that people are traveling. We know that residents and and attendees don't pay as close of attention to where an organization is located as maybe council members do. Um but yes, we're grateful that we can be supporting organizations in 14 of our 17 communities. Uh we think that's really important to demonstrate that regional value. But again, uh the majority of those organizations are headquartered in the city of De Moine. Okay. And um currently like if let's see, it's um Johnston and Altuna that are not Norwok. Norwalk and Altuna.

Norwok and Altuna. So, if a child from Norwok wanted to take a class at the community playhouse, they're not there's not a sir charge because Norwok is not um participating. Is that correct? That would be a decision the Playhouse would have to make.

So, probably not not this not at this point. Not at this. Not at this point. Okay. Could you help me? What are the 16 organizations that that you pointed out in that chart? I think I can get to eight or nine of them, but I don't think I can get all 16.

I know a lot of people would say that. Um, so it's the zoo, the science center, living history farms, Sherman Place. I'm probably not going to get all 16 of them this morning, Council Member Mandlebomb, but I could follow up with you. Uh, two that are sometimes harder for people to remember are uh living history farms in Urbanell, the Opera in Iowa, we certainly have the Ballet, the De Mo Arts Festival is often in that category, same as the Playhouse. So, they are a wide range of organizations. Uh, most of them have bricks and mortar, but not all. I'm happy to follow up with the list. I I'd welcome the list, but thank you. You filled in two or three of the one.

Mayor, I have a comment. Um, being a a fairly new board member there, one of the things I've really enjoyed is the ability to review the applications. Uh, each of these entities has asked for a lot of information and one of the things that I've learned about Bravo is Bravo is just not a pass through organization of money. Bravo is also there to help support and improve the organizations. I know Bravo has been involved, directly involved in conversations successfully with two nonprofits joining forces and becoming one to be more efficient. Um, we also make reference to some of the organizations, for example, to the De Moines Community Foundation to strengthen their boards. Um, so it's it's a good set of eyes on organizations and how to make them even stronger.

Thank you. I just want to say thank you for what you do having served on the board. Um, in fact, in the last two weeks I was at Hoy Sherman with the ballet, a phenomenal new ballet. Uh, yesterday I was at Opera Iowa. The people that toured, they I think they had done every third grade class in De Moine. Amazing talent and what it brings, the civic center, the outsiders. I mean there's so many things going on whether you're from De Moine or the region. So thank you for the work you do. I think it was concept was a good concept to bring people together to be more cohesive and move the arts in a greater way. So if anyone else has anything else

we also thank Robert Warren for being here representing Sherman Place. This demonstrates how important this organization is to keep these good organizations going. fortunate for what we have in this city. All right. Thank you, Sally. I want to thank you as well because you you do save us a lot of time and effort on that in that regard and I know where that would fall. So, thank you. Thank you.

All right. The second topic, uh, mayor and council members, is a change in process at the state level dealing with the workforce housing uh, tax credits. And because of that, we needed to quickly get this in front of you. uh with some new process. And so I will let Matt kick us off on this one. We good? Okay. Good morning, Mayor Bzen, members of city council. Matt Anderson, deputy city manager. Uh when I was before you uh at your first January meeting, I cautioned uh new council member Baron that not everything would be as fun as ARIRL. Um so I'm a man of my word. We bring you workforce housing tax credits, a much drier topic. Um but uh a necessary one that we need to talk about today. And it it uh Mr. Mr. Simonson's comments were were kind of timely when we we talk about the city being a not being a pass through uh that uh in the in the case of workforce housing tax credits in the in the past historically we have just been a pass through entity in in that process with the state. Uh there would generally be in most years 10 to 12 projects in the city that would apply for that state program. uh our role was simply to we just issued a blanket uh kind of form letter recommendation to the state passing all all of those projects through and then the state was the one who selected who was uh going to get an award and what that award would be. The just last month the state informed all cities that they're changing their process. Instead of all pro all applications going forward, we will we are allowed to submit a maximum of four. Um so we uh Whitney Basky from uh economic development is our subject matter expert in this. She's going to present you some

ideas of how we're going to select those four. Um, one thing to point out is we're not selecting we're not we're not uh we're not requesting or not recommending a um an actual scoring system where it's on a on a point scale, more of a ranking system because these are going to be not bees one-sizefits-all projects. Density, for example, looks very different downtown than it does in Beaverdale. And a simple scoring matrix would would not allow us that flexibility. So Whitney is going to present you kind of the history, the the actions we're going to take going forward, and then seek some input from you on if you if you want to add, subtract, or modify anything in that selection criteria that she's going to present.

Matt, what's what's the background with why they're changing it? I mean, do we have any I don't think I don't think we know that. It was just all cities were were given a communication that this is the new program going forward regardless of the population. Whitney will get to that too. Okay. Yeah.

Good morning, Mayor Boosezen, members of city council. My name is Whitney Besky. I've been a coordinator with your office of economic development for the past 5 years and as Matt mentioned, have acted as the lead on the workforce housing tax credit program for our division. This program provides incentives to encourage the development or rehabilitation of housing with a special focus on properties that are abandoned, empty or deteriorated. The program shifted to a competitive model in 2021 after previously operating as a first come first- serve basis. So prior to 5 years ago, you applied, you were approved, then you stood in line. As funds were allocated by the state and the legislature, they were doled out. They completely flipped that about five years ago. They have allocated $35 million each cycle to the program, but that's split um by the Iowa code into uh 50% of that money for the 88 least populous counties and then the other 17.5 million to the 11 most populated counties. Projects can receive up to $1 million. They have to meet minimum project size requirements. Either four single family homes or um one multifamily building has to have at least three units in it or two upper story units. So you can't just apply for one one home, one single family home. Unlike the lowincome housing tax credit program, LITC, which I know you're more familiar with, there are no state imposed affordability or income restrictions with this program. uh costs are kept um or project costs must fall within IED established caps. There's a $310,000 per unit cap for single family homes and

$250,000 for multifamily units. Historic preservation projects can um cost up to 125% of that cap. So they have a little extra room to comply with historic standards. Over the past 5 years, De Moine has averaged about 10 to 11 applications per year, which Matt mentioned. Some years we've had as high as 15. From 2021 to 2025, this council issued 53 resolutions of support for 45 projects. So if projects are unsuccessful one year, sometimes they will apply the next year, which is why those numbers don't match exactly. 22 projects ultimately received awards and of those five projects did not move forward with construction. In early February, our team was made aware that IEDA was implementing implementing several significant changes for 2026. First, projects must now demonstrate 60% secured financing at the time of application. If they don't meet this threshold, IEDA will not review them. Second, IEDA is setting a $2 million statewide award cap per applicant or developer inclusive of all related entities. Applicants can submit multiple projects but collectively cannot exceed the $2 million cap. This could affect De Moines as development teams focus their applications in less competitive markets likely in the rural areas. Finally, there's a new community cap of four applications per cycle. This means the city can only approve for resolutions of support. This change specifically represents as me mentioned a departure for the city of De Moine as we have not previously utiliized any internal

selection or internally competitive process. So that staff evaluation and ranking process now becomes necessary. We would propose to review each project across these six major categories. The first being location, which would include zoning, transit access, infrastructure readiness, and site control. Design and construction would encompass quality of materials, sustainability, unit mix, density, and construction timeline. Housing strategy alignment will be examined. We'll ask questions like does this project address city priorities incorporate affordability balance unit types and take into consider consideration neighborhood context. The fourth category is underwriting more financial considerations which would include feasibility of financing, reasonleness of assumptions, developer equity and leverage of private capital. development team strength will be considered including past performance with IEDA and the city and um we'll review any non-performing agreements that developer may have and finally additional considerations would include competitiveness in the IEDA scoring tool and geographic balance across wards and neighborhoods. A ranking or tiering process is preferred over a strict scoring rubric because each criterion carries different weight and recourse based on the different project and the context in the neighborhood and location. Context really is everything here as we're evaluating these projects requesting a letter of support will be reviewed and ranked by a multidisciplinary staff team. um OED would take the lead, but we would really want to know from planning and building code, particularly if a project has something that would completely prohibit it from going forward or being successful. So, we would want to do some

investigation there. Council will be presented with a tiered list including the staff recommendation of the top four projects. So, Whitney, who who will be on your committee then? What I mean I I assume you already have that figured out.

Well, we Yeah. So the OED team would review them, collect. I mean, our team's not big, but we all have expertise and relationships with a lot of developers. I think we could take advantage of that. But we would also envision pulling in likely Jay Mattis from the building code. Like I said, we would want to know if there's something in the project that he's like that will that will never work. And someone from the planning team to speak to maybe zoning or use type. We really just want to know if there's any hurdles that can't be moved. Okay. Thank you.

But and we would welcome any suggestions. This slide contains the proposed timeline for the 2026 cycle. We're grateful to be here today to present to the council. Um and then this week, with your blessing, we'd like to communicate the new process to the public and development community. Developers would have a little over a month to put project information together and submit documentation to our office. We would ask for that by April 13th, which is a Monday. 3 weeks after that, we would provide the proposed resolutions and support to the council for your approval. And then those applications are due, that cycle closes at the state on June 10th. So, we're trying to respect the developers and those teams time. a lot of them are not going to want to continue and work on the whole application with the state if they're not going to receive a letter of support from us. So, we're trying to balance giving them as much time as they can to get us complete information um without requiring them to work all the way through the state's process. This year's timeline is compressed. In future years, we would of course anticipate communicating early right after the holidays with the development community and allowing more time. But we these are the timeline and the cards we were dealt this year. So we're

how many applications do we think for this year? Do you have any idea? I would guess just on five years that we would fall more in that middle range of 9 to 10. Now what we don't know is that what that 60% financing requirement that might whittle our pool down more. Sometimes people throw in things that are kind of like cool ideas they had that aren't fully baked yet. So that may reduce that number and make our job a little bit simpler but okay yet to be seen.

Well I along those lines I was going to ask about that 60%. Are we using that as a a threshold? Are we going to require any applicant to demonstrate that 60% to us before?

Yes we certainly plan to require that before we come to you. Now, we have talked about maybe using a little flexibility like on April 13th if it comes in and and a developer expresses that they're because we know this is going to be that that's tough. 60%'s a good healthy number. If they are um on that day, you know, working with a bank and anticipating some things in the the next week, maybe within that window that we're still evaluating, we could consider keeping our process intact. And then that information though would certainly have to be in well before we come to you. And that's I think also why we like that ranking process. We'll just keep everybody in. If the if they don't have the 60% demonstrated, they can just be yanked out of the ranking.

Okay. Do we do we think we'll always have four that have that 60% demonstrated? We would we would guess so only because we do have a large pool of some really strong developers that that have a lot of assets that are really sort of able to allocate um to demonstrate that with documentation knowing that they would probably make choices internally in their how they're allocating finances if they get awarded and move forward.

Um two questions. So, um, if you make the list, I guess, of four, does that doesn't guarantee your your project's going to get funded, but is that, you know, that's not golden, but right, that's really the question that we're really anxious to learn and understand what this interaction I mean, we're looking on the front end and then we have to look after we send them from here. We're anxious to know to know what this looks like, what that relationship looks like between hour four and then the state's selection process. Yeah, you're you're touching on what is really the

keeping me up at night wondering how this is going to Right. Like I I wish I could speak to that and we get a lot of that's what we get questions on a lot of Okay. What how many Whitney we've actually averaged four to five though, right? When you look at the numbers, 5 years, 20ome, but have they always had the 60% threshold on them? No. Okay. I I think that'll make a significant difference. Five that weren't constructed. So, yeah. I we know that that there is some there was some frustration on the state. I mean, nobody likes to allocate credits and then see those sit there and not be used. So, statewide, I think the 60%

probably. Yeah. What what are the five projects that didn't get constructed? Yep. So, the Highland Park Apartments are actually two of those five. So, they were awarded with the first developer that took a run at it. It wasn't constructed. They got awarded again. The different development team also didn't get constructed. Uklid Avenue Row Homes and then two Hubble projects, 215 Southwest 9th and the Murphy Street Triangle project. Those are the five. Is thereity on why those didn't move forward?

I think our team would just say, and Matt might have more insight than that, because there wasn't this 60% threshold and because it's an annual timeline, sometimes development teams are like, let's let's let put this in even though it's not really baked maybe on their end like the full diligence. They haven't decided if they are or aren't going to do the project yet, but you know, it's a great opportunity. It's good money. So, they put in applications and then other factors considered, they decide not to do those monies go back to the state for allocation. Well, they don't they have like a three-year

timeline on them. So it's I mean I think they go they never get sent out eventually but they don't really get utilized credited back to that cycle. So in theory there's maybe other projects that could have been and if you don't can you continue to apply as here or is there a limitation like if you get the award the you know this year can you apply again next year if you have the 60% doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. No, they've allowed reapplications, as many reapplications as you want. Again, that I think they're kind of changing in flux, so I'm not sure if they would change that, but up to now, they allow reapplication.

So, just for clarity, the $2 million per application cap for applicants. Applicants are the developers, not the cities in this. Correct. Okay. Correct. So yeah, we have some developers in De Moines that well a lot that do work in other outlying communities. So that's really who that's going to affect. Um so it's by developer or by development? Developer.

What happens if we get awarded our four and there's additional funds throughout the state? Can we have more than four then if we have if we have another project that's 60% funded? Yeah, I mean that's a really good question. I don't I don't think we know. How do we find I would hope so. How do we find out? Okay. Probably wait till they get all the their criteria applicants and go through it.

But if there's do do we know Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Do we know how other communities have done in terms of award versus the number of projects that I mean if we had 22 awarded and five didn't didn't make it what what's that number for other communities? Yeah, that's a good question and I can ask I mean we you don't have a ton of peers when it comes to stuff like this but we know like Deuke and Cedar Rapids and Waterlue historically do pretty well with some of these. So, it would be interesting to Well, yeah. And I'm also curious with the half that goes to rural Iowa, are they having

are are they getting projects done that that are they having some of the same issues? Yeah. Well, I think the 60% will create issues for quite a few people. I think

I mean what what I wonder about is is this a way to just lower the number of overall dollars going out rather than I mean because if there are fewer projects that ultimately get built because they narrow applicants and narrow viable projects instead of spending 35 million in tax credits they could they could be spending 25 and then say that there's not a need for it even though there's still a pretty significant need because we've been artificially limited here.

All I will contact the state and see what I can find on no go projects. Whitney, I notice under development team for criteria that you note recent IEDA awards and performance on past city projects. I don't know how heavily weighted that is. I'm always concerned about being receptive to new people wanting to develop in our community. When I look at the LITC program, to me, it's become a club.

Um, you have to have completed X number of LITC projects to even be able to apply. Therefore, there's a really a fairly small number of people that get awarded the LITC. And I think that's so wrong. Okay. We're shutting out potentially very good applicants who want to develop in De Moines and can't.

Yes, that's good feedback feedback. We wanted to include that, but I think we already within our team were discussing the same thing. That's two sides of the same coin. you like to of course have a savvy developer, but also we've we've seen like often with these awards, you know, if a developer would get awarded or the previous two cycles, then they aren't maybe awarded in that next cycle. So, your point is well taken and we'll note that I think we're just trying to balance and like I said, really interested to understand how the state evaluates these and where they put their favorability. Well, thank you for tackling this. The state, if they were wise, they would say this is going to become the rule next year to give everybody time to respond. But you got some work ahead of you.

Yes. Yes. That would that would mean they would have to plan something actually, but we know they What do you got a month? I mean, yeah. Yeah. No, it's really too bad because there this is pretty critical for housing and you would think that they would give a little more time. Yeah. That assumes that the developers are ready. I mean, are the developers can do this in four weeks? Yeah, they sent an email to I think everybody in their system. So, we got a couple panicked emails from developer like right developers right when it came out. So, we're trying to move as quickly as we can to get them information. Okay,

Whitney, just to jump off of Councilman Simonson's point, um I think as something like this develops and matures over, you know, assuming that we'll be doing this for many years, I just think that there's um uh there's value in kind of thinking about it beyond housing and award development too and just thinking about principles of equity and um and reach and who's who is being served. Uh, and that might incentivize or or um, uh, it could be some value in having a perspective outside of development services. Maybe that's community impact and relations, but that's a good idea.

There's there's some I'd like you to think about that going forward, too. Absolutely. Thank you for those comments. Okay. Anything else? Thank you for the update. Yeah. Thank you. Is there anything? Oh, I guess that is the end of our work session. We'll reconvene at 4:50 for our regular scheduled meeting. So, thank you all for being here and have a good day.