City Commission - workshop

Good evening, we're gonna go ahead and get started with the city commission workshop for Monday, July 27th, 2026. If I can please have the city clerk call the roll.

Commissioner Caldwell? Commissioner Herriot?

Here.

Commissioner Howington? Commissioner Novick?

Here.

Commissioner Santiago?

Here.

Vice Mayor Villavazquez? Maravilla.

Present. Yeah.

And Maravilla. Here. Are you going to call the roll also for, go ahead, Jessica.

Terry D'Errico. Here. David Stewart.

Here.

Secretary Amoroso. Here. Patricia, or Member Northy.

Here.

Chair Ricardo? Present. And Member Warnecke? Present.

All right, if we can all please stand for the pledge, and I'll ask Member Northey to lead us in the pledge, please.

I pledge allegiance to the flag

All right, this is a discussion item. It's a joint workshop city commission and planning and zoning board for the comprehensive plan amendment makes use future land use category chapter five. If I can please, Mr. Smith.

Good evening, Mayor. Commission, planning and zoning board. Oh, that's loud. Thank you for being here this evening tonight's workshop is a continuation of the conference of plan update and tonight we will be. focusing on the proposed mixed-use land use category. Staff and the consultant will provide an overview of the proposed mixed-use categories, and we will review the draft goals, objectives, and policies. The purpose of tonight's workshop is to get your feedback and direction so we can continue refining the draft before it moves forward into the public hearing process. Over the next couple of workshops, we will review the remaining objectives, policies, before bringing them before bringing the competent plan amendments forward for public hearings this workshop is for discussion only and no action will be taken this evening with that i'll turn it over to kathy and jason to begin the presentation

Good evening, thank you. Always, as Kathy and I were talking about this on the way up here, we really, truly love coming here. You guys have been unbelievably engaging, and this is a very exciting time. I think, Kathy, this is where the rubber meets the road at this point. We've done a lot of visioning throughout with your community, and today's a really exciting time to move forward with goals, objectives, and policies related to the mixed use. So today hopefully we're not gonna splash every word that's written up there on the screen for you. You do have those in your drafts. We are gonna try to make the connection for you of where it came from and why we're here and obviously where we're going. So I'm gonna let Kathy take over on some of the conversations here and we really look forward to your feedback and your input.

I'm just gonna, quick reminder for both boards, we'll let them do their presentations when you feel it's appropriate. Let us know so we can ask the questions we need to ask. Make sure you push the button so I know to give you access to be able to ask your questions. So you have paper, make sure you take the notes of the questions you wanna ask. We wanna make sure that this goes very smoothly.

So I think just as in the past, we welcome you just to interject at the time because it's best to just capture it right then. So if you have a question, do protocol and then the chair will recognize you after you've had your hand up. So a quick summary of what we're gonna do today. We're gonna go through some project updates. Like mentioned, today's focus is on brand new policy language that has never been presented before but this is the culmination of two years worth of work and we're going to show you a through line of how starting with our vision statement and the vision mapping that we did and the policy priority discussions that we've had how we've gotten to this space where we are now presenting to you policy, goal objective and policy language for mixed use areas. We aren't going through the whole future land use element. That will come at a future workshop. Today we are just focused on the new language for the mixed use areas, as well as the new mapping. And then we'll talk about where we're gonna head from here after we go through that. So quick, here we are. We have, oh. Can you keep moving? I'm sorry, I'm moving myself and you're not. Next slide, go to the slide with the next one, next one. There. So here we are. We are at community workshop number five after having done a series of five workshops for the visioning. So we've now met 10 times to talk about these in one way or another. And then we also had, if you remember, the workshop in April of last year when we approved the vision, which, next slide. This is the vision we approved in 2050. The city of Deltona will be known as Central Florida's premier community for family-friendly living. Next slide. And through that visioning effort, we started with just drawing on a paper. We wanted to know what people thought and where people felt like we needed to really focus our land use efforts. We know that Deltona is predominantly a single family community, quarter acre, half acre lots. This is my term that I'm gonna give, not someone else's, but I call it Florida's original sin in that it is That floor at places like deltona were never designed to be a place they were designed to sell lots Residential lots single-family lots that's it and so now our challenge working as a community as a team is to figure out how do we create a place out of a place that was never designed to be such so one of the first activities that we did if you recall was to identify where should we put a real uptown downtown area where could we put larger mixed-use areas where could we put mixed-use corridors how could we connect the community through true mixed-use areas recognizing that because it was designed always as predominantly a residential community and it and the thoughts of where economic uses and where sidewalk uses and connection uses would be was never really a part of the original planning of Deltona. Now we have to come back and retrofit those areas. So we started with this mapping exercise. Next slide. And we have now translated that mapping exercise into a future land use map that identifies seven different types of mixed use areas, which we're gonna go through in a second, but just to state what they are up front. We have an uptown area, we have community centers, we have neighborhood centers, we have economic centers, we have eco centers, and then we have a community corridor and a main street corridor. And the community, as you're gonna see, the community center and the community corridor are connected, and the neighborhood center and the main street corridor are connected. So the map, the vision map, as you can see, has been translated pretty closely. We didn't make a whole lot of adjustments actually through this. What the adjustments that we made were not the location where we thought mixed use centers should be, but more what types of mixed use centers and the intensity of those mixed use centers. So go to the next slide. So let's focus on the potential city center. We have identified now a potential city center that is the purple area At the top, it is generally in the same location that we thought it would be. We may have made some adjustments over the last year and a half based after we really evaluated property ownership, ability to create a mixed-use area, We looked at the development that has already been approved in this area, and that is why we came up with that purple area, which would receive the uptown mixed-use category. We also identified the blue area in that area as an economic center, and that is really just confirming the land use pattern and land use entitlements that already exist in that area. So it's just saying that is an area that is predominantly economic uses, which we're gonna get into in a second, which talk about kind of where is workforce happening. And then the uptown area is what is our city center. It's what it would be, which is gonna be the most intense area of development for our mixed use areas. To the next section. so then the next section we identified that we needed some connectivity uh... in this area this is this is largely this And I know when I say this, some people question me, but the historic part of Deltona, this is the original area of Deltona. This is where Deltona started. So we looked at this area and tried to understand how could we create mixed use areas in this. And as you can see, they're predominantly along corridors, but there are community centers, neighborhood centers connected by the corridor uses. And then we also have in this section one of our eco-centers, which is the one that's down by the old marina. Next slide. And then our final section is where we see our next big economic use. It's also where we see a big ecotourism area and some of our main street sections, the blue being the eco centers, the green being, or I'm sorry, the blue being the economic centers, the green being the eco centers, and then once again, the yellows and reds being the centers or corridors. So move to the next. So now we're going to go in detail on what we're proposing for each of these sections. And I ask you to please interject. Please do not wait till the end. If you have a question, if you have a thought, if you think some of the standards you see are right on target, we wanna know that. If you think they need some adjustments, we wanna know that. So let's move forward. So this is what, These are AI generated graphics, but they are AI generated based on the standards that we developed as a draft to show you. So this is what your uptown area could look like if the standards that we're about to show you were applied to that area of your city. So next. so if there's one explain the density in these each of these areas because we're going away work work we're doing something a little different then people are used to rather than having a property by property standard what we are proposing for it is an area standard so it would be sixty five dwelling units PER ACRE, BUT THAT IS AN AVERAGE ACROSS THE ENTIRE AREA. SO ONE PROPERTY MAY HAVE NO, ONE PROPERTY MAY BE COMPLETELY NONRESIDENTIAL OR IT MAY BE A CIVIC SPACE OR IT MAY BE A PUBLIC BUILDING. SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DWELLING UNITS AND THEY HAVE NO DENSITY. BUT ANOTHER PROPERTY MAY ACTUALLY HAVE A HIGHER DENSITY. THE POINT HERE IS THAT AS AN AVERAGE ACROSS THAT WHOLE AREA THAT WOULD BE IDENTIFIED AS THE UPTOWN mixed use center would have an average of 65 units an acre across the area and this is going to be true in all of our mixed use centers when you see the density that we're going to be proposing that density is an is an area standard not a property by property standard commissioner harriet thank you mayor thank you guys for the presentation so when you say that this would be an area standard and it would be not specifically property by property does that mean that you

the residential density rights from one property could be transferred and accumulated on other properties and then if those density rights work could be transferred for residential units does that mean that a parcel that has commercial density doesn't have residential density could build the commercial component and then transfer the residential component to another site.

So they're not transfer. It's not really so a transfer development right is a different is a whole different process. This is just an average. So what staff would do is back up two slides to the map. So in this purple area staff would track the densities of every property that's being proposed in that area. And it would average that density and make sure that that density never exceeds a 65 units an acre. So it's not a transfer, because a transfer would say, I'm gonna go through some process to transfer my rights to another property. That's not what happens. This is an administrative process where staff is evaluating all of the properties in that purple area to make sure that it never exceeds the 65 units an acre.

okay does this create a rush for multi-family development to get in early so that they can create while there's more availability they can they can build while there's more availability to impact the average i don't i don't think so because that that i think that would be more that's why we're going to this average and not because

Honestly, somebody who comes in later may have ability to do, because they can never exceed that 65. So you might have more units available if after other things have been developed out than you would have initially. And the reason why we did 65 units an acre in the uptown area, and in fact, the reason we are, we have heard some comments, we don't need any more residential units in deltona we have so many resident we have homes everywhere but the key is that in order to make mixed use work you have to have density in that area i just spent a week at a conference that's designated to developing Main Streets. And in fact, I was just at a neighboring community today. And the conversation I was having with that neighboring community was, we need more residential density in our downtown area so that our downtown can be a 24-7 downtown. What?

So it can thrive. So it can thrive. You create that walkable component without having to increase the parking.

Right now that community, they feel like they're a two or a three day community. So they're basically on the weekends. And then today on a Monday, I was in a restaurant with two other tables. So that's why you want this density to be concentrated in these areas because they are what's going to make these mixed use areas thrive. If you don't increase the density in those areas, you're gonna be in the same position I was where I was one of two people eating lunch on a Monday. Now the community that I spent last weekend is definitely a 24 seven. They have a lot more residential in and around their downtown area. And it didn't matter if it was Monday or Friday or Saturday or Sunday. There was lots of activity. There were lots of people in that area. There were lots of people shopping. So that residential component is really important to making these areas work.

Member Northey and then Member DiRocco.

Could we go back to the other two slides forward? First question, what is artisan industrial? What do you mean by artisan industrial?

So that's a great question. It's a new use that we're proposing for your mixed use centers. Artisan industrial is someone who has a artist based activity in their property. So may, like last week I was at a proper, I was in a, in an area that they have visiting artists who come through and sell their activities.

Similar to new Smyrna beach.

Yeah. You could have, so you could have a soap, someone who makes soap and sells soap or that you, there was a, at the store at the main street I was at last week, They had a person who was sewing and knitting, and then she sold her stuff. So artist industrial is someone who, it's actually exactly what the chairman says.

It's art industrial. So that takes me to a bigger picture, and I don't know if that's what we're talking about tonight or not, but I find the 65 number interesting. I think that's appropriate for the Uptown Center Future Land Use Category. My issue is more how do we embrace a holistic approach to that land use category to Uptown Center? I mean, I didn't see that in, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that in the work that we were given.

Yeah, so that's a great question. I think we're gonna walk through some of those items and I think what you're talking about is form and the way it functions and operates, right? So that's a key component to all of these mixed uses that there's gotta be block standards, frontage standards, bill two standards, all those things as part of the policy.

We tried that one time years ago. Sure. under Bob Nix, and nothing ever happened. It was like one area was one thing, another area was something else, rather than a holistic approach for the city. So I think that's really where I would come from, is that we're a big city, no doubt, and we have different needs. I get that. But if we're talking about an uptown center land use designation, that should be in my opinion.

That should be the same So I think if you are aware because I'm not as we said we're not going policy by policy today We're trying to stay at a bigger picture, but in your packets you do have every policy written out so While we're not going through that level. We would love to get feedback about those policies Because those were in the packets So you do have each policy and you will in in the policies As we're going to get to in a second. We have a whole set of design based Criteria that are universal for all of these centers remember Jericho

Thank you, if we could go back one more slide, please, maybe, okay. So I'm just curious if these are conversations that have been had, and if they are, I maybe perhaps missed that meeting, or if this is a proposal, but at what point did we have conversation about high rises?

So that's, so go next, the other standard, move forward? The maximum height just in this uptown center would be nine stories with a potential to go to 11 stories with some bonus capability. And this is just our proposal to you. This is us after we, so what we did is based on all of the feedback that we got from everybody, we then did research based on communities of like size and like interests and came up with the nine stories the up to nine stories with two two stories for bonus and I believe the reason we're going to the we did the nine is because you already have a couple of buildings that have the ability to to go to nine, so we wanted to make sure that that was your minimum. We also wanted to provide an additional two just in case there was something, and by the way, just so you know, one of the communities that we compared this to is right next door to Land, and their tallest building in downtown, and people have been like, I didn't believe that, but we showed them, their tallest building, and I believe it's at the, Intersection of New York and Woodland, but I could be it might not be New York But I think I'm pretty sure it's New York and Woodland is nine stories It's New York in a million, okay I know in the interest of time I'll be quick and if we need to skip I'm happy to Right after you then you got Commissioner Santiago.

Okay vice mayor.

So my only I just want to make sure that we're all aware as we're considering this right and and you you did a great job pointing this out earlier kathy is we are a city of single residents so right no one wants to be the single resident with an 11-story high-rise in their backyard

Again the policies and we'll walk through some of this tonight as we get through here That's an important part is that transition and we recognize that we certainly don't want that either and so it's almost think of it There's a core to the uptown not the whole uptown all of a sudden is gonna pop up nine stories, right? so there's there's components that are gonna be higher and in the middle of it versus the perimeter. And I think the context of what's adjacent to you is important also. It's tough, right? You wanna integrate those neighborhoods, but you don't wanna overpower them and overwhelm them. I know we've included policies to consider that transition and make sure that that happens.

all right the other thing that we have the the other thing um that we have done and i um is we've talked to staff about how to do some modeling of of the uptown area one of the one of the community areas and one of the neighborhood centers so that and that that's a proposal that i'm sure you're going to see in the future but If that were to be done, then we would actually take these standards and do some actual site design. It's not a part of our current project, but it is something that we were asked to develop a proposal for, so we did that.

Commissioner Santiago, then Vice Mayor Avila-Vasquez.

Yep, really quick. Now, on the nine stories, Jordan, really quick, the hospital, how many floors is that? And then the potential of, don't they have the potential of? Okay. Just to put it in perspective, you know, they're like seven. And I think they can add to it additional more.

Right. They do have the potential to increase.

Yeah. And this area, you know, I know the concern about putting like a high rise or next to residential units and stuff. I think this area is predominantly has like the epic theater. which they do not have that historical area or the residential areas, but I think it fits more in that location.

Yeah, and you're gonna see that when we get to the other ones, this is by far the tallest. There is nothing else that is gonna come this close.

Thank you. Vice Mayor Villavazquez.

Thank you, Mayor. So my question was also asking how tall was Halifax and the apartments on Normandy and Graves. How tall are they? Are they taller than the Halifax? Four stories. Four stories. So Halifax is taller. Yes. With the potential of getting taller. And I know that we had the discussion when you met with one-on-one commissioners, and I think the idea that you're referring to is more like a DeLand idea. They have their mixed use of businesses on one area, and then residential is away from the other area. If you notice the land, their residential area doesn't get put into with businesses and stuff like that. Even the new building they're building next to City Hall is going to be, I think, a rental, affordable housing rental, something like that.

yeah this definitely that remember that in this that's that's why we ended up develop developing and demarcating these boundaries for the uptown on the map was that we looked at every property understood what each property in this area was and how it related to area neighborhoods and in the uptown area there are no neighborhoods currently this is all either this is either um existing commercial or undeveloped lands.

So we just confirmed the hospital is currently six stories with the potential to go to three more, so a total of nine.

So and again, I think you make great points and as we move forward I think the the homework that we want to help have you guys achieve is we have drafted policies related to those questions Are they sufficient do they do you understand them? Do you find them to be implementable? Those are the things that we're gonna be looking from you if there's if you're nervous about something It doesn't get as far as you want it to go then let's go back and rework that and make sure that you're comfortable with those policies for those transitions and other other policies we talked about You can continue, Kathy.

Okay. Move to the next category. So the next category we're going to talk about are the community mixed-use centers.

I don't know if I can sit this far away and have...

There we go. So the communities mixed-use centers on the map, these are the identified in the reddish color. These are... smaller that significantly smaller than the uptown area they are bigger than what we're going to show for the for the Neighborhood mixed-use areas. We see these as areas that would be a regional based mixed-use area So they're not where we're uptown is meant to serve the entire city and really be a focal the city center as we just got Discussed it in the visioning. These areas are meant to serve a larger region of the city and To the next. And again, this is an AI generated drawing of what a community mixed use center might look like if the standards that we've provided were applied. To the next.

Kathy, really quick, I hate to interrupt you. When we apply all the greenery, we're making sure we're looking at native plants, right?

Yes.

Okay.

And again, to Jason's point, you have the specific policies. There are, as we're going to discuss in a second, policies that deal with environmental. And if you feel like we need additional language, please let us know. That's the whole point. We just realized there's a typo on our on our slide it should be six stories not five stories and 40 dwelling units an acre and again, this is an average so and It's an average within the designated area. It isn't something that you can it's an average to go out It's within those boundaries Um, and the mixed use land uses are, or the uses allowed are predominantly the same ones that we allowed in the last one. Next. Are there, were there any questions about the community mixed use center standards? So six stories, 40 dwelling units an acre. And again, the community mixed use is intended to be a focal focal point for regional activities in the area. The next category are our community mixed-use corridors. These are meant predominantly to connect our mixed-use centers or our community centers together. And the major difference between a mixed-use, a community mixed-use corridor and a community mixed-use center is that the corridor, as depicted in the map next,

in the picture is a corridor.

So a center is a block, is intended to have blocks, a block structure where a corridor is meeting, is a more linear type of development pattern. To the next.

Commissioner Harriot.

Thank you, Mayor. On the corridors, is there going to be any regulation added, or do we have current regulation that requires interconnectivity between parcels? So off of the main road?

We are creating a policy that does that.

Okay. So that would help eliminate some of the traffic congestion and whatnot getting in and out of, and not everybody will have an individual driveway. There will be shared drive access.

Yes. In this area, this one is right, this is five stories, so there is a slight difference between the center at six stories and the corridor at five stories, but both are an average of 40 dwelling units an acre. And again, the major difference between these two is the development pattern of block pattern versus a corridor pattern. Any questions about any of the community mixed use areas?

Can I go back, go to that slide that was just up? I just have a real quick question. Not this one, the one that the map, no. That one. All those little gray. No, this is neighborhood. It's the same thing, though. The gray areas, are those all parks in the city or public spaces? I mean, I don't see them defined, but in looking at them, that's what that looks like. I'm just trying to orient myself.

The gray section, the areas that are gray?

Yeah.

Are you talking about down here?

Well, you have that, the conservation area, then you have, it looks like maybe that's the boat ramp area. Yeah.

Or are you talking about the grayed area in like there's different grayed areas throughout the city?

The light gray.

So that's the other categories? It's just faded because we're trying to highlight the red in this case. So when we go to the next one, if we go to the green one, the red will be faded and translucent.

But that is public spaces, correct? Am I correct in that?

No, those are centers that we'll touch on in just a second.

Okay. So it's all part of the map. What we did is we're fading out the ones that we're not talking about and bringing forward the one we are speaking about.

Move forward? Oh, I'm sorry, this is where we are.

So the next area that we're gonna talk about are neighborhood mixed-use centers, and I'm gonna remind everyone that, once again, we have the neighborhood mixed-use centers and the Main Street corridors, and similarly to the community, this is, the major difference is that a neighborhood mixed-use center is a block structure, and the Main Street corridor is a corridor area, but the standards are vastly the same between the two of them, so move to the next. So this is what a neighborhood center would look like. And again, these areas are surrounded by residential. These areas are very much connected to our residential areas. So with the density, you can see the height standard is significantly lower in these areas than we would expect to see in other areas. And again, this is a AI-generated graphic based on the standards that we put into the system to get a graphic. Yeah, well, right, these areas, as you know, as we identified them throughout, these are, a lot of them, they may be vacant, they may be currently developed, but this is a 30-year plan, so this is allowing for redevelopment, both of the vacant properties more readily and the ones that are currently active, redevelopment long-term. Yes?

Vice Mayor Villavazquez?

Thank you, Mayor. This is more or less when we discuss what they call the commons by the panhandle, right? It's the same design, and it's really nice. I mean, from what I've seen up north, it's really pretty. When I say north, I mean the panhandle in Florida.

Yeah. I mean, this is very much the same sort of development pattern that you could see in Sanford or Mount Dora or... Cocoa village that's these are all areas. I mean Central Florida is actually Has an abundance of these little mixed-use center areas that even there's There's a number of them right in the city of Orlando little neighborhood sections where they come together So move to the next so In keeping with that this is more of a residential nature, the maximum building height is three stories and the density is 25. And again, it's still that average. So it's 25 units on average across the area. To the next. And then this section is our neighborhood mixed use corridors, which similar to our community corridors, the neighborhood mixed use corridors are intended to connect our neighborhood centers together. To the next. The difference being that in a neighborhood center, it's a block structure. In the Main Street corridor, it's a corridor-based structure. To the next. And it has the same density and height standard of 25 average dwelling units an acre and up to three stories. Commissioner Harriot.

Thank you, Mayor. So can we go back one slide to the AI video or the image? So I noticed on the slide, the map, one slide prior to this one, this is predominantly what Howland would essentially turn into. When we're looking and considering the function, current function of Howland Boulevard, and then putting these community centers on the side or the main street, community corridors, sorry.

These are Main Street corridors.

Main Street corridors adjacent to it. How would that, what would the interaction be with, you know, a four-lane divided highway such as Howland, and would this be adjacent but off?

I think Howland is actually a community center, and community corridors are much busier.

Can we go back one slide? So I think the highlight are

yeah so you still have a neighborhood center can be can be a low it's it's really about the height versus your your there they can be a through area I mean if you're if you go and I'm trying to think of one in the local region

And you don't have to provide an example right now. I just want to make sure that when we are considering this, especially for this one, that Howland's a major thoroughfare through the city. I know that myself among thousands of my neighbors use it to get in and out of the city every day. So if we're trying to lower the speed limit and kind of impede that flow of traffic, that that would not bode well for just the overall flow and use

within the city so i love the concept i i just want to would like to understand how that interaction would yeah i think when you get those larger roadways a lot of communities there's there's a whole process right 30-year vision or plan and all that so you have some roads end up going on road diets and or what have you because you have their options in that case you may have two sides of it they're somewhat independent and not as necessarily as integrated as some other streets But the challenge that you have in these corridors is you have very shallow lot depths, right? You have lots of parcels. They're challenging to develop under your current plan and your current code because of all the requirements are more of a suburban style. So it's really the intent, I think, ultimately with a busier corridor like that is to introduce the idea of the buildings pushed up to the front, parking on the side of the rear, allowing more intensity to encourage people to redevelop those kind of fallen behind parcels.

absolutely so i don't think you're necessarily going to see a four lane divided railroad go to a two lane with a you know landscape down the street but um but we want the sides to be come integrated along that quarter with each other yeah i think that perfectly answers and kind of ties in what i was going with is that there is an idea that we would push push the businesses up to the front of the road and then we would have access to the back and parking in the back and that that way it if residents are watching this or when residents are watching this and seeing this, they don't think that, oh, we're trying to cut the speed limit on Howland down to 35 and impact, add an extra 15 or 20 minutes.

There's several neighborhoods in Orlando that have done that, right? And they've been through actually all of those versions. They went from neighborhood street to a four-lane road to now you see facade improvements, you see building improvements, and you see businesses going back in there. and they've made that transition because they changed their plan and their codes to allow that redevelopment.

Would that kind of, would the Mills 50 district be something along Colonial that would be representative? That would be that process. Okay. Thank you.

And it could be that the main, we, you know, this again is a proposed draft, so we could re-look at it and make sure that we've identified which ones should be the community mixed-use corridors and which ones should be the Main Street corridors appropriately.

Commissioner Nobick?

Think of a veto. Oviedo is exactly this out by UCF and that. You've got all of the, yeah. And that's four lanes with a median.

So again, it might be that we just re-look at and to make sure that we're designating them right between the main street and the community corridor. To the next. to the next, to the next. Okay, so now we're at our economic centers, and these areas are, These areas are distinctly different than the ones we just discussed. In the previous ones, we were really looking at mixed-use areas. We wanted walkability, we wanted short blocks, we wanted build-to streets, all of the rest of it. Now we are looking at areas that we want to be predominantly economic-focused. These are our job centers. But we still want them to have a feel that makes it walkable. We want our employees to be able to walk to the to a coffee shop to get a to get a drink or the restaurant at lunchtime but the predominant uses here are meant to be economic based to the next so you can see in this one we have wider streets we expect that in an economic area uh... we do that some of the buildings are brought to the street not all of them there's some opportunities for for people to be able to sit out front uh... so these are definitely more oriented to an innovation district or an employment district

Next we got a question from a member nor the and then Commissioner Harriet.

Could we go back two slides, please? That's fine. No that one there the There's the blue on the east side of the city Does that bump up to Osteen? Yes. Have you all looked at the Osteen JPA and how that manages how that works for that? Yes Disintegrate it with a JPA.

Yes.

Okay

Yeah, it's an implementing tool for the JPA.

Commissioner Harriet?

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you guys for considering and looking into the JPA. That's an important interaction with our neighbors that are not Deltona residents, but with our neighbors. Question. When we're talking about economic centers, am I going to interpret this correctly and say that this is where we're going to have predominantly job development, where we're going to have an increase in local jobs and people don't necessarily have to leave the city in order to go partake in their career. They can

You know go to one of these corridors and have opportunity available Yeah, I mean I would argue that all of our mixed-use corridors or mixed-use centers are really economic based I mean, that's what we're trying to we're trying to maximize what land we do have for non-residential uses, but here we are where a mixed-use center may be more shops and businesses and some professional. This is meant to be more of an innovation district, so you're expanding your employment types that could be light industrial, warehousing, other types of economic research.

Larger-scale office complexes.

Larger-scale office complexes, right.

Excellent, thank you.

So higher-paying jobs, essentially. Higher-paying jobs.

Yeah, these are, these, right.

And it was really important when we looked at your community to balance that. You have some of that happening in the northwest, obviously, in the corner there by I-4. But transportation-wise, we talked about that trying to balance throughout the city. And again, it was already the basis was there from the JPA.

Vice Mayor Avila-Vasquez.

Ms. Rachel.

Member, I'm sorry, Member Amoroso.

And it might be a pretty stupid question, but that's okay. What exactly does a policy change mean? I mean, maybe I didn't pay attention at the beginning, but what are we doing here? Like, all these pictures, Fine Dandy I've seen a million times, Virginia, North Carolina, beautiful, love it. All these corridors have houses on either side. It would have to change everything. But what is exactly... a policy change that you're talking about? What is this gonna do? I mean, of course it's not gonna bring this to Deltona, even though we change the policies, whatever, and put it out there, they're not gonna come banging down the door. So I'm just curious as to what the policy change means.

I mean, I guess I'll say big picture policy change means improving what is allowed by right is one way to do it and You in exchange for that you get a better form and function, right? So that's the policies that we've drafted are different than what you have and we don't have these types of categories currently so What we're trying to do is set a bar and say if you develop in this manner you get a B and C right and that's the trade-off if you're gonna develop the way we want you to develop and and look the way we want and feel the way we want as a community, then you get these other entitlements. Right now you don't have that. Right now you have a lot of planned developments, a lot of future land use amendments or rezonings, a lot of hurdles for people to go through. So we've said basically if any community wants something, say what you want and allow it is kind of the bigger picture way to say it.

So this is, I read a lot about this, but essentially then it's not like a rezone. Correct. Okay, so.

Not yet, correct.

Okay. So we're at the future land use stage. Okay. And the future, right now, you do not have a future, you don't have future land uses that allow for this. You don't have, these are, everything you're seeing is a first draft, the first time we've presented this in public.

Okay, so the question that I would have then is that, If it comes to the point where it's a zoning change and we zone it uptown, this is a zoned uptown, not residential, this is zoned uptown, could essentially, with what's written here, a nine-foot apartment building come in legally with that zoning?

so first of all uh... just to remind everybody of the process of florida planning the first thing you do when you're making new additions is you develop future lane use standards that allow for things then you do a land development code so nothing here can be implemented without changes to your land development code your land development code does not allow what we're sharing what we're doing right now so the next step is an evaluation of your land development code to make these things allowable. And then the second question is, again, we're talking nine stories in one area, one very specific designated area. No other section has anything close to nine stories. So one area in your uptown area would allow up to nine stories. But it's not just allowing up to nine stories. It also has to meet, which we're going to get into in a second, specific design and development standards that allow for that. So this isn't carte blanche. This is like Jason said, if you do if you want to be allowed to do that then you're going to have to do something else it is a significant change for your community but we also think it's a really important change and i think everyone knows that there is a proposed property tax bill on the books for the for the change to the floor constitution this year and a community like deltona which we have talked about for two years now with you, is in a particularly vulnerable place to that amendment. And that's because you don't have a balance of economic uses. You are predominantly a residential community, and being a predominantly residential community leaves you very vulnerable to a property tax bill as being proposed. That's and and then of course we were doing this we've been working on this for two years So this was before we even knew this was this could be a possibility But at the time your community said to our project team we need we want to be a community where we're not always sending our our families out to work we want to work here and The problem is because of the way you're originally developed with the quarter acre, half acre lots, there just aren't a lot of land. There's just not a lot of land that you can build there. So this type of development pattern, which has a higher density and a higher height than other types of development patterns, this is really one of the only ways you're going to get that because you don't have a lot of land. You can't go just build an office park somewhere. You can't just... you know, annex a new piece of land. There just isn't a lot of land in Deltona that can become economic based and that's why this is such an important strategic change for the city of Deltona.

And remember, the future land use in the comp plan, we're talking about maximums for the most part, right? So there may be a location in a neighborhood area that is not appropriate for three stories. Maybe it's adjacent to single family homes in one or two. That's all through your zoning and land development code and other procedures that get created to implement those regulations.

Jordan you want to chime in. I just wanted to for time frame.

Time frame for the mayor and commission and also the planning board. So right now we're finishing up the comp plan and we hope to transmit transmit then adopt bring it to you guys for adoption by October November December time frame. And once that is done we're going to move into the next phase which is overhauling the land development code which will guide the. More details guide more details. And so what we're talking about here.

We still have we consider this. This is like and I know I'm a policy link. So this is the enabling legislation. This enables whatever else is going to happen. But this but on its own this cannot enable it cannot be implemented on its own. It's only enables something else to happen.

Member Northey. So I know that down there, and I'm trying to find Doyle Road on these maps. I wish they were a little more identified by the roads. Where 415 and Doyle come out, could you place that on the screen for me, where that would be? I'm trying to... That's what I thought, okay. Just west of that, just west of that off of Doyle Road, there is some medical land there. I don't see anything in here that addresses medical as a long-term future land use.

Medical wouldn't be allowed in the employment centers?

No, I'm talking about it's already zoned for medical. Oh, okay. Or it was bought by a, by a hospital to possibly expand in that area.

Thank you. That's something we'll look into. Okay.

Member DeRogatis.

Thank you, Mayor. Super quick, I'll just say what I think. I mean, I know what I was thinking, Rachel, when you were talking is... We would just want to make sure that our city is not put in a position, because it has happened before, we go into a nine-story building thinking it's going to be mixed use and residential, and then we get all the residential, and then the commercial never comes, and then we end up with nine stories of residential. I just wanted to say that. I feel better for having said it. Thank you.

No, I mean, it's a good point because we do need to make sure that we're mixing both residential and non-residential uses.

that's no don't be sorry that's what this is for I'm just I'd be sorry I'd be if you don't ask the question and you go away going I should have asked that that's when I just have a question about the map because I zoom I made it bigger yeah I couldn't read the stuff it what what's Blue River is that Providence did you guys just name it wrong Like right here, Providence runs into this green thing, the big green thing, the economic center, the eco center that's supposed to be, I guess, the boat ramp?

Yeah.

The name of the road says Blue River.

Oh.

Is that just a mistake? I'm sorry, I don't know.

I'll have to double check it. I'm not sure.

I just never heard of a street named Blue River in Deltona, so.

It could be something that's like, there's sometimes a road name is officially something that people don't realize it is until, it's been, it's been, So we'll look into it, thank you. All right, so on to the next one, and it's the last one, the eco center. Oh, I do want, go back for a second to the standards. So I do want to make a note that this allows for 24 units an acre in the economic centers. this is mixed-use only, or multi-family only. This is not single-family, this is multi-family only. If you see on the mixed-use categories, it does not allow for single-family, it's only letting for multi-family residential, and that is intentional. To the next. So then the final one is our eco-centers.

Kathy, just really quick. Member Cardio, please, go ahead.

Thank you, Mayor. Before we move on to eco centers, can we just go back to the economic center for just a second? I had a thought, just want to clarify. Can we go back to the map? Thank you. So the easternmost blue areas there that we're designating as economic centers, what is the predominant zoning in that area? Is it or is it not agricultural?

It matches the JPA. We matched the JPA exactly so that it could be an implementing tool for the JPA.

I understand that, but what is it currently zoned right now? Agricultural? Because you're not going to be able to develop there if your zoning and your future land use are incompatible. So if it's currently agricultural, it's going to have to be rezoned to be compatible with the future land use of an economic center.

So that's what we will be doing as we go into the land development code. All of these areas, to be honest, are going to have to be rezoned, not just that one.

So now we need to take into consideration individuals and property owners that have five, 10, 15 acre tracts that are currently zoned agricultural, potentially zoned agricultural, who will now be forced into a rezone because their zoning classification no longer is compatible with their future land use designation that we're now changing to Economic Center.

So, Member Carter, they're currently zoned counties, so they would have to rezone anyway.

They're currently zoned what, county?

County, correct.

So we have nobody owns, no individual owns property in those areas?

No, individual owned property, but it's currently, they have not, they don't have an equivalent city zoning category right now.

They're currently unincorporated and when they annex and they will be required to know they're in the city. Sorry they're they currently have their unincorporated county zoning designation have not received their city zoning designation. So in order to perform any development they're required to rezone.

Okay.

And honestly, that second phase that we talked about is going to be strategic. I don't know that the staff and you guys are going to want to go in and rezone everybody's property, right? There may be strategic areas.

That's what I'm concerned about is we're going to force a property owner to have to rezone a property because we've designated an area where their zoning is currently not compatible with their land use that we're now designating. So it's not just here. It could potentially be anywhere. Sure. So what's the protocol or?

Well, the zoning is not consistent with the current plan and the JPA and all that. It's planning for the future of that to be transitioned into something else, right? So that underlying ag zoning is there. They have some rights to that, but eventually the idea is people would redevelop or rezone those properties to develop them. And that's across the board, right? So there may be some zoning districts that are not consistent with what you're adopting, but they'll catch up through either us doing targeted and surgery with it, or whether they apply for developments.

That's pretty typical. So we're gonna force people to have to rezone their property if they want to develop it?

No, I wouldn't say that. They have the option to come in and rezone to develop in another manner consistent with the comprehensive plan. It's giving them options.

We're giving residents more people that want to come into the city that own property right now. We're giving them more options on what they're able to do on their piece of property right now. We're giving them tools in the toolbox if they want to develop.

Okay. And understand if they wanted to develop, they'd have to do rezoning anyway. So whether they'd rezone to this or they'd rezone to something else, if they wanted to be used in a different manner, they need to go through that process regardless.

So basically what you're saying is there are no property owners within those blue areas that currently have a tract of land? There's no individual property owners. Point of order.

What they're trying to say is they currently own land. They currently own land. But in order for them to develop that land, they would have to, am I correct, Jordan? You want to finish it? I'm just trying to help her out because I think. Yeah, they're going to have to rezone their properties.

whether they were to go from ag to residential, whether they go from ag to build a hospital, whatever they do, they would have to go through that process.

If this never, we never went through with this, they would still have to come to rezone with the city.

And we won't be forcing any property owner to do this. This is something that every property owner can or cannot take advantage of. This is an overlay. These are overlays. So overlays provide additional opportunity, but they are not regulatory in nature.

An agriculturally zoned piece of property can build a residence without having to go through a rezone. So to say that they would have to rezone it anyway is not 100% correct. But if their five-acre tract of vacant property that they want to put a house on is currently zoned agricultural and it's in an economic center, their agriculturally zoned piece of property no longer complies or is no longer compatible with a future land use designation, and now they can't build their house without having to rezone.

madam chair i do just want to note that because they're zoned county agricultural they are required to rezone because they're within city limits with a county zoning designation every piece of property in those blue squares the majority of the majority of the property classification majority of the properties are county zoning right now majority so not every

Staff can send out a list of, we can analyze those properties and show you what's currently sitting and what's currently in the county zoning.

Okay. I just don't want to do something that's going to hurt a property owner and have an issue with regards to their entitlement rights.

Hold on.

I think it's a great point of then a policy related to recognizing those entitlements of existing zoning after the adoption of whatever gets adopted is important that they have those rights. You're not taking anything away from anybody. They have zoning in place. If they want to do something different, they have to rezone or redevelop, but people generally can develop according to their zoning that's in place at the time. Unless you have a county zoning and then have to rezone to the city zoning.

Thank you.

member nor the and then we'll go to commissioner harriet

I think my question is way more fundamental and I understand what you're saying because she's absolutely concerned, I share that concern. I'm looking at this blue spot and I'm assuming that all the property, that that's 415 boundary and that all the property east, excuse me, west of that is already, was in the city when we incorporated, would that be correct? Is that in the city now? Was it originally in the city? Or are we gonna make an assumption that 415 runs through that and we're going to incorporate the property that is now in the county? Because that's a big difference. Is that already, I get the part that it could be carrying a county designation, but that's been 30 some years it's been carrying that then. Is that?

I'd have to go back and look at the annexation records but since I've been here we have not annexed any properties out there but it still holds on to the county.

Could we look at that because I mean I've been around a long time I was involved in the JPA was involved in the whole process of incorporation and I know there were some outlying parcels but that's a big outlying parcel then that's it so.

That's not one big parcel. It's multiple parcels. That's not one parcel.

I get that. I know that it's multi-parcels, but the whole idea was is a 415 line run through that property or does it run east of that property? That makes a big difference.

It runs east of the property. Yep.

So as we get into the other elements, and I think the rest of the future land use element, that'll be an important conversation to have as far as your future annexation priorities. Typically with the JPA area, most of the communities around you have done that. They've said, we wanna annex all of it, or part of it, or they make a plan.

You won't hear that from people in that area.

But generally speaking, if you don't want to, that's fine too. It's just when you're talking about capital investment and capital improvements and land use, trying to be consistent with what's adjacent to you, that's all a discussion for the future land use element.

Commissioner Harriot and then Member Warneke.

Thank you, Mayor. The east side of those blue areas, for context, is that, I know it's part of the OC and JPA, but how far up to that area do we know does a Farmton Local Plan come because what i think happens is that the farmton local plan comes up really really close to that area and the farmton local plan combined with the the ocean jpa those two documents together pretty much designate that area as commercial mixed use i know that those par the parcels along uh 415 are required to have some sort of mixed use component residential and commercial That's why you see the Osteen Farm Store has those empty lots on the other side of the parking lot because they are required to at some point put in residential there. And so this whole area, as much as I would love to protect the agriculture right there on that corridor, between the Farmton Local Plan and the Osteen JPA that are decades old, that's already been taken away. That's already been moved to mixed use. At this point, I think what we need to focus on is concentrating that mixed use into these areas where it's already been designated so that we can protect the agricultural uses adjacent to them so that we don't get that bleed over, that spill over, so that we're eliminating additional agricultural lands. Thank you, Mayor.

Member Warneke? Davison hit it on pretty hard on, that's kind of what I was gonna say, but my biggest, the big word that came up was annexation, and that's gonna be, that's a real sore subject on that corner, and whether they have to annex to get the city utilities, that's one thing, but I know for a fact property there's 31 property owners between walmart and collins road that's all commercial and they're tiny little lots that's all i have to say okay okay um

For staff and the consultant, I think what will be very helpful when we go to the next round of this is to have a much more detailed map with street names on it. This is too vague. We can't quite get orientated. So if we actually have the wording of the street names, Hallam Boulevard 415, a little bit more detail, I think that will be much more helpful to everybody. That's perfect.

Yeah, and so part of that conversation that you brought up, sir, is part of your future land use map series. It's a bunch of maps that display things. It's not just a future land use map, but it's also the JPA area, and that, I think, will better show you how those uses interact because there's things in the blue we're talking about right next to it in the county is the same exact thing, right? So you're not seeing that right now because we're talking about city future land use, but I think what we'll do is we're gonna include in that future land use map series maps All of those, you can see that overlaying and where city boundaries are, where the JPA is, how that interacts a little bit more clearly. We'll make sure you see that next time.

We just need more detail on the maps to help some of us older folks orientate ourselves a little bit better. Yes, sir.

Any other questions? You guys can proceed. Okay, next. Move forward to the next category. The final category is our eco centers category. We have three of these identified. And in, yeah, I mean, this is obviously a much different version of what's there today, but this is what could happen in an area like this to the next one. There's very little residential, and the residential is acknowledging that residential already exists in some of these, so it's up to 10 dwelling units an acre, and again, that's on an average, and three stories.

Kathy, can I just interject there? Can we, maybe I'm the only one on this platform right now. Is there any way when we talk about an eco, does there necessarily need to be dwelling units in there? Or can we do something zero?

We have, we already have. We're acknowledging there is residential already there. So we're acknowledging.

So for example, like in the boat ramp, you're kind of including the houses at the condominium. Okay, I, okay.

Yeah, so this is accounting. This is simply accounting for what already exists.

All right. Member Amoroso or is it Vice Mayor? Okay, Vice Mayor Avila-Vasquez.

Yeah, I think you answered my question because there are two, even though people think it's one, it's really two different condominiums in that area. And I thought maybe were you going to purchase, so the city going to purchase each person out to redevelop? Because, you know. Rachel how much you want for your condom? But um So that was my question, but you had answered it.

Yeah, we were acknowledging that that already exists That's why it has to have some residential in there I'm gonna add to what she said.

So it's ten Residential units per acre. Okay. This is what it says for this eco three-story building. We're two stories and Edgewater is 26 acres. I'm not sure about Lakeside because I don't run them, but around the same. 26 acres, and we have 312 units. So 26 acres, 312 units. If my math is correct, it's less than 10 acres. That's all I was trying to say.

So, again, we can look at these again, but there are a few different ecocenter areas, so we're trying to acknowledge what's happening in all of them.

And maybe for the next round we can just, even if we have to split the two different eco centers, just so we can, because the folks in that area don't want their area touched for the most part, except for obviously fixing the bull ramp and stuff like that and make it a lot nicer.

Okay, next. So now we're going to go into the goals, objectives, and policies. And again, we're not going through this section. We're not going to go nearly as detailed as we just went through the proposed land use categories. But we want to recognize that there are land use standards that will accompany these land use categories.

Next.

So just a reminder of what our guiding principles were, family-friendly identity, prioritizing redevelopment, cultivating a walkable mixed-use environment, cultivating an economy featuring diverse range of industries and jobs, enhancing Deltona's transportation system, protecting Deltona's natural resources, and prioritizing and maintaining and enhancing the quality of life and facilities. So there is but one goal for the mixed use categories. There will be another future land use goal that deals with all the other items of the future land use, but in this mixed use section there will be one goal, and that is, to promote integrated mixed-use centers and corridors consistent with the city's vision for becoming Central Florida's premier community for family-friendly living, promote an integrated network of vibrant mixed-use centers and corridors. These centers and corridors will support economic growth, foster redevelopment, and connect the city's neighborhoods through a balance of mixed-use balanced mix of housing, employment, commercial, civic, recreational, and cultural uses. And the dots that you're gonna see, they each relate to one of the guiding principles. If you notice, the guiding principles each had a different color band. Each one of those is related to those dots. So throughout this, we've talked about mixed-use centers, and a lot of the mixed-use centers, as Jason pointed out, are already developed in one way or another, whether it's a vacant area or it's active, there is a development pattern that already exists there. And the core of these policies is how to transform those plazas into mixed use centers. Next. So first one is doing through an uptown center where you may have which This development pattern is very similar to the development pattern that exists in some of the uptown area already. You have some scattering of buildings and vacant lands. And then through infill development and mixed use and establishing a grid network, you can create a true uptown area with residential that surrounds it and supports it, but define core areas. Next. And you can do the same thing at a community center level where if you have a commercial plaza, these drawings are not of anywhere specific in Deltona. We're just showing what could happen. But when I look at that drawing of the outline of the buildings, I think of one of the community centers that you have and how you can establish a grid network through the parking lot and adjacent properties. Next. And then you can do it at a neighborhood level, a much smaller grid network, but still achieving those same goals, but recognizing in neighborhood center that it needs to be compatible with the surrounding neighborhood. Next. And then you can do so on a corridor. Next. so through those transitional areas and things that can happen over time you can transition from what you have today to something different this is not meant to happen overnight but it happens over a period of time implementing a series of policies so the first objective for the future land use mixed use categories is to establish a growth net framework that directs future development and redevelopment to uptown designated mixed use centers, mixed use corridors, economic centers, eco centers, and other strategic locations served by existing or planned infrastructure and public facilities. Development shall be guided through the future land use map and implemented through the land development code using objective and measurable standards. Next. and the series of policies related to that one. Just talk about the administration of each of those areas. Next. Yeah, so each of these, these are just the titles, but each of the detailed policies in your packet. Then the next section, which we're gonna go into a little more detail here because this is really where We're dealing with our design and site standards is to establish a coordinated network of mixed-use centers and corridors to direct future growth, redevelopment, and investment to strategic locations served by existing or planned infrastructure while supporting compact, integrated, and economically vibrant development patterns. The following design and site standards shall guide development within the mixed-use centers and corridors and recognize that these are establishing a framework from which the land development code would be developed.

Next.

So the first set deals with site density, site design density, and the policies deal with site design, area density standards, relationship between height and density, and site design incentives. And the whole idea is to understand that we want to establish a framework for development that is different than the suburban traditional suburban development recognizing once again that you have very limited lands that you can have for these types of economic and Town center type uses so we wanted maximize those properties. We don't want parking lots taking over and not utilizing land efficiently we want we want every inch of land that we can use to be developed in the most effective manner next the next set of policies in this section deals with building design and placement recognizing and establishing building envelope for that mixed-use development can thrive and recognizing that we would prefer even in residential areas that we have non-residential ground floor uses so that residential would be above that would be second floor and above but also to your point earlier recognizing that there are neighborhoods or that there are neighborhoods around this area and we need to effectively transition from one and two family districts into the mixed-use development areas and you can do that through transition standards. One of the things you won't see are standards that deal with buffering because in mixed use we don't buffer, we transition. It should be a seamless movement that you almost don't even realize that when I was touring the community near you today, we were in a residential area and I didn't even realize we had gotten there because it just sort of happens because of the way building placement happens and landscaping and all the rest of it. Next. In this next section, we're dealing with public space and streetscape design, recognizing that public spaces and streetscape design is really how those transitions happen. It is through our streetscape design and our landscaping and civic spaces that we're able to transfer from a more community-centered, like Jason said earlier, that really heart of the mixed-use area to the residential areas around it.

and all of that happens. Can I just ask a question on public space and streetscape design standards? How are we including bicycle culture in that and trails?

So all of this is based on, and I think if you go to the next slide. Yeah, so all of this is based on making sure that in every one of, so this is actually, so you went from the block to the streetscape, which is this section. In this section, we're dealing with block standards, we're dealing with sidewalk standards, we're dealing with traffic, we're dealing with parks and integration and recognizing that when you have mixed-use development areas, not only are they the most efficient and best form of use for economic purposes, but they're also the safest. They also produce the most walkability. They also produce the most allowance for multimodal transportation.

Which also leads me to the conversation about the width of that sidewalk and or trail. Right now, I think what our standard is five foot, four foot, five foot? Five foot. Which is not very wide.

No, so a multi-use trail is six to eight.

Yeah, correct. So would we, where would it be appropriate for that to become a standard in the community? That the trails, not just the trails, but the sidewalks are wider than what we have now because they're really ridiculously large.

So that's something we would, again, and understand that right now the only thing we're showing today are for the mixed use areas, but I'm sensing that you're talking about more citywide and that would be in our.

Connectivity.

Yeah, that'll be in our transportation element as well as our parks and recreation space open elements when we bring those forward.

Yeah, and so that, just to kind of give you a flavor of an example, you may want a policy in those elements that direct you to increase or study or somehow evolve your standards in your land development code, and that may be something that's a direction from your policy perspective.

And that also brings me to handicapped accessibility. How do we integrate handicapped accessibility on redevelopment, particularly, I know new development, there are standards out there, but on redevelopment, our handicapped, right now, our handicapped accessibility in this community sucks. I mean, the ADA is terrible. There are old shopping centers, there's no ADA. They might put up a poll that says this is a place where handicapped can park, but there's no ramp to go up, there's no, nothing like that. How do we integrate something like that into this kind of a plan?

Well, and I think you're talking about some existing older structures and buildings too that are supposed to retrofit over time. But I think policy-wise, it's calling that out. If you want to get that specific and get that directive from your comp plan to direct your codes and direct other regulations to further implement that and enhance and make sure that those are a priority, we can say that. We can call that out in policy. I'm more of, I have a tendency to be more, when I write comp plans, to be more of a let's tell everybody what we want to do very specifically. It's not writing the code. It's not saying it's a six foot sidewalk necessarily, but we want to say we want in the appropriate places to have greater widths. We want more trails. We want more things that serve a different purpose.

We want handicapped accessibility on renovations.

right do a study to make sure that we're are we doing the appropriate widths and lengths and placement and and all these other things when we do these and it's also more challenging when you talk about adding sidewalks to existing rights of way which you have versus new development trying to integrate 30 or 40 acres within itself and then to the exterior all those things have to balance so it is tough you don't have a lot of room in your right away to go widen the five feet sidewalks the reality but internally yeah we can make sure that that's required

Yeah, you did. And so those are issues that we can deal with when we get to the transportation and recreation and open space elements.

But when you read these policies, because again, each of these numbers relates to a policy that's in your packet. Make notes to yourself. Is it going far enough for your comfort? Do you need something else? Does it accomplish what you want it to accomplish? That's the feedback we're looking for.

And if it's policy that you would like to see placed citywide, because again, these policies are just for the mixed use areas, then note it so that we know that we should expand that and we should have a similar policy in the citywide policies.

Next.

So the next section of policies in the mixed use categories deals with civic spaces, natural environment, and resiliency, and recognizing that even in our mixed use areas, we need to provide for our natural resources and allow for the successful use and facilitation of the natural resources. To the next slide. to include the use of stormwater as not only areas where we're capturing stormwater, but areas that we can use for park space, that we can use for water retention, that we can use for trail systems. So especially in mixed use areas, our natural resources become more than just a resource, they become an amenity and an asset. next and then this one we've already gone through but this is so after you we would start with the administration and administrative policies to deal with mixed use then we would go into the detailed design policies which we just went through and then the final section uh of the final set of policies in our in our um future land use mixed use section would be the policies that we started with which was the detail of each one of the Standards for each of the categories to the next so as you can see this is where all your categories come into place next so next steps The next step is we the way we're going to be working these workshops is we will introduce a set of goals objectives and policies at each one of these workshops and We will also be taking detailed comments from the previous month. So we just went through in detail what the future land use goals, objectives, and policies are. At the next meeting, we will start with, do you have any comments that you would like to give us in detail about these? And then we're going to introduce the next set of goals, objectives, and policies.

I'd like to dive or jump backwards a little bit to the discussion that we had about the development around 415 and the overall idea or concept of increasing development be it allowed already or not adjacent to areas that want that we want to or should be protecting for Whether it's agricultural uses or eco uses or quite frankly just the environmental uses that God created them for I Would like to see us look at some policies that would require more stringent consideration and thought from the current board and future boards, understanding that these policies aren't gonna be put into place really within the next year or so, two years, and then the impact is gonna be within the next decade probably, or more. I understand that we don't have a rural boundary in the sense around us that our neighboring county does, but I would like to have something more restrictive, more stringent, a process more stringent in place so that if we have an expansion of one of these zones adjacent to an agricultural enclave or area, that it would require an increased level of scrutiny. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking what Oviedo and Winter Springs have done or discussed about charter amendments. Maybe not necessarily to the charter amendment, we can discuss that totally different workshop, but something along those lines where there's an enhanced level of scrutiny so that we're not just, it doesn't just take a simple majority to come through and say, all right, we're gonna take this ag land, it is right next to our commercial area, and we're just gonna let that urban sprawl continue to move out.

Right, so creating a, the whole point of mixed use and this kind of development pattern is that you're focusing development in strategic locations, which the intent of that is to maximize urban areas, but at the same time protect your rural areas. When I was a graduate student a few decades ago, I wrote my master's thesis on this very topic. we can certainly look at it. I don't know that it's appropriate in this set of policies, because again, this set of policies is strictly governing those mixed use centers, but it is something that we can absolutely look at when we get into the elements that deal with natural resources, environmental protection,

um and other future and general future land use okay and i i do want to flag that adopting a more restrictive or burdensome procedure may have implications but we're happy to work with the consultant to see what we can do within the confines of sb 180. yeah i i understand that i just we're talking about providing additional

to the discussion earlier, the point earlier, is that we're talking about allowing by right additional. So if we're gonna go as far as allowing by right additional, then we can put some guardrails on that process so that maybe we don't, in some cases, allow by right. This is, I think, an important conversation that stems primarily at this moment around the 415 area, but it also extends over towards Enterprise. It also extends over towards District 1 and Lake Helen, the Lake Helen area, where there's a lot of growth outward in that urban sprawl that really needs to be curtailed. So that's where it's coming from, and that's where I'm going with it.

I fully understand that. I've worked in a lot of communities that try to set those boundaries and figure out, and a lot of times, ultimately, the utilities is a tool to control that, and you reprioritize or you lower the prioritization of places that are into those agriculture areas or beyond that. Remember, when you do future land use, We have to write these policies in a way that it's not just for the mixed use that we want to change. You also have to be thinking of if somebody wants to come in and I have 20, 30 acres and I want to apply now for one of these categories into a new area 10 years from now, or if I want to expand whatever gets adopted. And I think to your point, that expansion, the controlling of that expansion in a timely manner is part of the consideration that you should be given as decision makers, right? So why would I expand a mixed-use center that hasn't built out, that hasn't developed? If it's nothing there, why am I just expanding it? So those are the types of policies without putting more restrictions on that we can look at to include.

And I think some of those guardrails, Zach, could be, like we've discussed in the past with Jordan, the fact that if somebody owns 10 acres and four of them sit on wetlands, that they should have buildable acreages, not just that, if I'm allowed to build 100 houses on those 10 acres, then they're gonna build 100 houses on the six acres that they're able to build on, right? I don't think that type of guardrail will effectively be, I guess, affected by SB 180. I think that's something that we can do.

To the extent there's something existing in your code or in other regulatory frameworks, then yes, that would not be more restrictive or burdensome. And I think wetlands is a good example of that, although sometimes you can just pay to mitigate.

I get it, yes, we still got the mitigation bank to deal with, but I think those type of guardrails are perfect because if somebody, like I said before, has four acres that are just wetlands, and in their heads, well, we got 10 acres, so we're going to use a 10 buildable acres theory, if we restrict it in a sense of, yes, you do have 10 acres, but you can only build on six of those acres, then I think there's an argument to be made that we've EFFECTIVELY RESTRICTED SOME OF THEIR BUILDABLE AVERAGES SO WE'RE NOT AFFECTING THE REST OF THE WETLANDS OR... YEAH, WE'RE HAPPY TO WORK WITH, AGAIN, YOUR STAFF AND THE CONSULTANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN... COMMISSIONER HERRIOT.

ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL.

SO THE DIRECTION THAT I THINK YOU TOOK THAT IS PERFECT, AND IT'S A PROBLEM THAT'S KIND OF PLUGGED THE CITY FOR THE LAST, SINCE WE DID THIS BEFORE, 15 OR 20 YEARS, WHERE we have that urban sprawl without the infill taking place. And so I think it's important to make those considerations in policy. And if we need to clean up the definitions and calculations for buildable acres and net buildable acres, then why haven't we done it yet? Thank you.

Vice Mayor Villabascos.

Yes, Mayor, are we gonna give the audience a chance to comment?

Yes, we still have time.

I think we're all set. Mayor, we're all done.

Okay, so we're gonna go into public comment.

Kathy Bryan.

Ms. Bryan, as you know, just click on the request to speak and I will turn on the microphone.

Good evening, Kathy Bryan, Deltona. A lot to say. Increase in... I'd like to see an increase in the eco-corridor through all districts for wildlife. And then even though it's county-owned and College owned, I'd like to see Leonia Preserve also considered part of an eco corridor because it is one and I just didn't see it marked on there. I know there was talk about building on some of that acreage. I hope that's all gone away because it's not necessary. We talk about wetlands, but your high dry areas are just important to the hydrologic cycle as your wetlands are, even though it's good for building. I know when I was in the other vision sessions with all the residents, we talked about when you have one specific area that's your main uptown or downtown, whatever you want to call it, The problem is is it takes a long time to get from one side of Deltona to the other. So I was hoping to see a little more expansion of some of the more neighborhood areas because we are so limited in space. Just because if I lived in District 6 down there by 415, I'd go to Sanford before. I tried to go all the way up to District 2. I would also like, when you guys consider the buildings and whatnot for these, discourage glass buildings. The heat they reflect is horrible. And no palm trees, please, and put more mature trees in for shade. when we talk about the high-rise buildings i've always thought that we needed to build up rather than out because of the limited use of land so when you guys talk about making efficient use parking why does it have to be on the street why not a parking garage on the first couple of floors and then your business, and then maybe some residences. I know that the residences above businesses came up at one of the meetings, and I thought it got kind of poo-pooed, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a great use of area. The other thing is, is Rhode Island, are we going, because... That area is a horrible, horrible, horrible area for traffic right now. And before we even get into what we're going to do, we need to lay out the plans for how we're going to manage traffic. Are we going to have Rhode Island open? So that's an alternate way to get in and out. And then also too that not all areas need to be formed this way. Not everybody moved to Deltona. A lot of people moved to Deltona, but what did you move here for to be where it was where you moved away from? Artisan industry versus regular industry. All I saw was artisan industry. What about light industry? I mean, I think we need, there's no reason, especially up in that District 2 area, not to have some of that. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have three minutes or four minutes?

Three.

I thought we had four on workshops.

No, everything is three minutes now.

Hi. Beginning with the height of buildings, somebody wanted to have a children's center here. In order to have that type of facility, you really need to have all of the whistles and bells that go with it, the radiology departments, the lab departments. You need to have an affiliation with the University Medical Center. That's a big building. I've seen quite a few of them. I've never seen one under eight stories. So I wouldn't quibble about nine, 11 stories. They're running out of money with that. Next thing is, and also the location. If they're gonna put it near I-4, the only eyesore it's gonna cause for any residents, unless you're living in the middle of I-4 or Amazon, you're not really gonna notice it. So I think it would be the perfect location for that. As far as the map is concerned, That other commerce center is east of 415. It's gonna be down by Maytag Road. I just hope that they're not planning on building on top of the dump that's back there. It should be close to level to the ground by now. Run it over with a steam roller a few times. It might even be flat. Let's see. Deltona was built like Greenwich Village. In New York City, the avenues go north and south, the streets go east and west. In Deltona, we have a can of worms. Everywhere you look, it's a can of worms. And Orlando recently found out that I-4 had to be straightened out if they wanted to stop some of the traffic accidents that are there. Well, we're going to have to do the same thing. So a certain amount of give and take is going to have to take place. I think the plan's a good one. With one exception. Can we finally, one day, have the street names put on these maps that everybody uses? Because it seems like, I don't know, it just seems like when it's vague, somebody's trying to pull a wool over your eyes. And that's it.

Pat Blodgett.

I don't agree 100% with my husband, but it's a good idea.

Ms. Blodgett, can you speak closer to the microphone?

There you go. It's a good idea. I mean, I love the idea. But we're a deltona, okay? We're not Oviedo, we're not Lake Mary, we're a deltona. We still have the apartments behind Publix that are vacant. How many apartments are we gonna build now? We still have the apartments behind Publix. How many are rented next to the movie theater? Traffic, okay. If we put something near Graves and Howland, it's gonna take us an hour from Deltona High School to get to I-4. Why don't we consider fixing what we have now, the boat ramp? That was a beautiful picture of a boat ramp. It was kind of a joke because we can't even fix our boat ramp. That's all I got.

Carolyn Hickerson.

I think this is only my second time come to a meeting like this one. Just a few points. And first of all, thank you. My gosh, what thought went into this? This is amazing. It's great. It's going to take 30 years, right? Okay, so let's not get our knickers allotted up that, oh, my God, this is going to happen tomorrow. It's not. It's a 30-year plan. It's a wish. So I have a few questions. One is on Howland. When you're wanting to redevelop Howland and there's homes on Howland, are you going to then... take homes by eminent domain? Are you going to be like Ocean City, New Jersey, or whatever that place was where they built a hotel around this old lady's house because she didn't want to sell her house? I mean, that's just in my mind. That was the first thing that popped to me. Like, oh my God, there's a little old lady like me. I'm not going to sell my house. They're going to build it for me. Second, the next thing is, how are you going to continue continuity on the changes of DIAS over the next 30 years? How will you put in place that this vision, this plan, is going to be a work in progress and not a change in progress? The next is transition planning, which normally includes, if I'm not mistaken, fencing, dense vegetation, light and noise blocking. How is that gonna work in neighborhoods? How are we gonna incorporate, you mentioned transition planning, how are you gonna incorporate that in neighborhoods? Are you gonna fence, are you gonna dense vegetation, light and noise blocking, how's that gonna happen? And then the only other thing I can think is that we put in place a community building standard so that it's not sprawl like you, inconsistent blight, that we have a standard of building, that everything is, thank you, uniform, couldn't find the word. So they're my thoughts and again, my thoughts mean nothing and 30 years from now I'll be dead. So there's that.

That ends public comment, Mayor.

Thank you. I believe Kathy wanted to go.

Kathy.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. We appreciate them. This is but a draft. We talk about a draft being something you put up on a dartboard and ask people to throw arrows at it. And if you don't throw arrows, I always wonder if people really read it. So I appreciate the thoughtful comments. In terms of how do you do and ensure that this is going to happen long term, I've been a planner for 30 years this year. And I've been fortunate enough to work on a number of projects that have been similar to this where a community really refined its vision and created something different. And I can tell you that what will keep this going is not anyone at this dais. What will keep this going are the people in the audience who take ownership of this plan. We have worked very hard over the last two years to involve as many people in Deltona who wanted to participate. And I'm gonna just give you a story from another community I worked in when I went for a run. I used to live in the community, I no longer do, and I was visiting some friends, went for a run and ran into the person who was the vice chair on the committee that was leading that effort. And she could not tell me enough about all of the things that she made sure and she knew what were happening that we talked about 20 years ago in a plan. So what makes these things happen is not the dais. It's the people who go back and say, this is what we... We worked hard. We spent two years visioning. We spent another year writing a comprehensive plan. Then we spent another year developing a land development code. This is our plan. We own this. And you make sure that people at the dais continue to honor what you believe in your vision for your community this deltona 2050 is not our vision for the community it's your vision for the community and it will only survive if you all make it happen thank you kathy city manager not the mayor thank you all right he's adjourned

Jordan.