County Council - Regular Meeting

All right, we should be all set. Good morning everyone. I will call this meeting to order. The Cal County Commissioners, today's date is December 8th, 2025. Morning and off we go.

Well, good morning. Yes, off we go. Let me just say that um the job classification subcommittee approved for me to send the facilities manager, maintenance director, whatever that job description will be uh to forward that on to Wagner, Irwin, and Sheileely. So, um that is in their hands. So, we are moving along with that. And then Larry and I had a little discussion about the rest of his department um the job descriptions uh for the other two people and where they're both um located in the classification system. So um I gave him the current job descriptions and he and I are going to talk about those. Um, if you recall, they were uh they were rather quickly created because of the, you know, the the uh how fast that it was decided that uh we would have a uh a second employee in in that maintenance department. And then when we had uh the three departments come together to create, they wanted to have that one person that we have as the floater. So, I think it's probably a good idea um for us to at least review, take a look at what the um uh the one person who works with the director closely, who is potentially uh the one that will step up into that position. So, at least you guys know it is moving along. Um for the last uh week and yet today and tomorrow we have had steel benefit systems having uh a couple um enrollment specialists,

benefit consultants who uh had appointments with employees. the they were for our voluntary insuranceances, the special enrollment time for the um the extra uh life accidental death and dismemberment for uh employees that they would purchase for themselves or their children or their spouses. Also, they were offering uh critical care and you had also um authorized a hospitalization policy. And then, of course, the long-term disability for anyone not uh employed in the sheriff's office so they could purchase those um uh themselves. And yeah, initially after after almost a week, um I'm going to say we probably should have or steel probably should have um done a beta on this. uh we probably should have tried the system with the say the auditor's office and HR kind of let us be the guinea pigs work through it um to try to you know get any uh get over any bumps that we did experience on Tuesday last Tuesday was very stressful um in HR and for steel also to make sure that everything was um was had been uh downloaded into their system. So that our employees then if they wanted to um look online and do anything of the for themselves online and not make an appointment with one of the uh with one of the benefit enrollers that we had everything correct and um I feel that it it yeah so when we have our call this week with them there is we will have a whole list of things that you know would have should have could

have um and hopefully this is a a great exercise for us because this will be the system that we will use for our health plan enrollment in June. And uh okay, if you know we work out the bugs now and hopefully then that very stressful time frame in June for open enrollment will be much less stressful for uh HR and for our employees to enroll. So anyway, I think um yeah, and they've been very nice uh very competent uh to work with. They have um fixed issues. Uh we have punted questions to them because HR uh is not insurance agent and we don't claim to be

and they are. So uh we go to the experts and uh you know we that that is a little difficult for HR because we like to help employees solve their problems right then and there and so when you have to punt to somebody else it's like you know but they are the experts and we just you know let them go ahead and and help our employees and hopefully it's a good uh leaves a good taste in their mouths. So we have that um the performance evaluations for our from our department heads have been coming in fast and furious. Um the ones we do have department heads by the way who do their evaluations throughout the year. They will do it near the employees um anniversary date rather than wait till the end of the year when you know council says you must do it. um they actually take it on and uh have nice conversations where they're not stressed about, you know, a time crunch and um and then we have others that will just do it mid year just because it's what they do. They will do their whole department. So um anyway, those are coming in. I know you guys um will be making appointments with the individuals that you have and so um that's um I think we're on track for everybody's to be in by Friday so that payroll can flip a switch and uh do a lot of data entry um in the system to make sure that all of the wages are correct. Um, I'm going to let Morgan go ahead and talk about recruiting, hiring, and whatever else.

Uh, the nurse the for the health department, the nurse opening closed on Friday. Um, so hopefully they got a few good applicants and we'll be interviewing them soon. Central actually posted their job on Facebook and since they did that, I think we got about 40 responses. So, it really helped be and I think yesterday we or last week we got about three completed packets which the packets take there's a lot of things to complete them. They have to go to work one they have to do testing. It takes about two hours. Um they go get notorized. So that's a really good response and hopefully we get a few more this week and that's really it for hiring.

Okay. Um, we do want to make sure that you guys are, you know, have been processing some of the information with the a wellness program for plan year 2627. You know, we need to really be thinking about that so that employees can do whatever it is that you guys want them to do. Um and then when we have our open enrollment in June of 26, then it goes forward. So that leaves us with um you know, really probably five five months um you know, January through May to uh have our employees do something that that you guys are going to want for a wellness plan. So, um, and I know Susan did a great job getting some information from, uh, her auditor's group. Um, and, uh, you know, so we don't want the ball to drop. Yeah. The only other thing is um you know we have um you know the winding down of Sunny Meadows and um uh we had we had um an email from Commissioner Douly um to all of us about what kind of the plan. Um it's it's so precarious because we don't know exactly, you know, the definitive last date. So, it's all very, you know, up in the air, but um we just want to make sure that we uh continue to monitor um everything. And with our our employees, we want to make sure that uh when it is time to release them, that there's a um you know, that leaves it leaves a good taste in their mouths. um and that we have um we have done them, you know, a a service that um you know,

we're we're sending them off um you know, with a positive experience of working here for the county. Yeah.

So, and I know that there's a um council meeting this Wednesday that will be talking about they will be talking about the um the stipened again. That's a subject I'd like to address a little bit this morning even because I would like to retract my approval of the $6,000 strip stipen and and the reason if we're going to pay them $6,000 and we way way underpaid Ben Park Barker in his stipen and I I understand yeah we should pay him something. I'm not sure that 6,000 is appropriate under the circumstances. And when we hear talk from the council about how strapped we're going to be budget-wise and and taking that into account, anything we can save is going to help going forward with our budget next year and the year after obviously. So that's my thoughts on it. I think it I would like to maybe introduce a a different number for the stipen to present to council with the other commissioners. Uh it'd be up to them of course to second that motion and move forward with it. But I'd like to recommend $1,500 as a stipen instead of the 6,000. I think that's more appropriate more in line with what they have given us done for us. I think you have any additional comments dy I would welcome those. Well, um when nationwide uh the average for uh an employee who is being um downsized or or whatever, it's

usually um a a severance or a stipen of one week's pay per one year of service. Um we have one employee out there who has um really a little over two years of experience out there who is um and that's the most of anyone.

Um so you have you do have another one who has worked out there about 15 months now. And so if you took a look at their wages um you know I think this 1,500 would be very, you know, very nice. Um, we do have three full-time employees and then we have a part-time employee. Um, there had been a comment made during the council meeting that um, and we're very we're thrilled that these employees have have stuck around. Um but there were no promises made to any of them that they would have a job until May of 2026. Um at least from the part of HR and from the part of the former director out there when when she hired at least two of the employees. Um so there's there's no promise. Um, there was also a uh a suggestion that in as a part of a stipulation of them receiving that $6,000 that they wave their right to unemployment. And that's just not right. We ran it past our uh council and he ran it past uh a uh somebody who deals with that and you know that's you know you just wouldn't um ask that of an employee. Um there are uh you have current employees that have worked a long time and uh we have a longevity schedule. Um after an employee hits five years of

employment, they receive a they receive $600 for longevity, a thank you for being here for that long. And that's five years of service here, $600. And there have been some comments made that you have individuals who are leaving who are will be receiving $6,000 um after, you know, a maximum of really, you know, just a little over of two years of service. And so that does cause some morale issues with certain employees. Um, another another issue is um, uh, Commissioner Douly has um, you know, a relationship with manpower. We have three manpower employees out there working. And I would think that if one of our employees would have left us to go to another, you know, another uh employment that manpower would have been happy to supply us with another housekeeper. Um, so as much as I I appreciate them sticking around and providing the services that they have, um, that it's just seems excessive. Um, everybody would love $6,000, I'm sure, but I'm not sure that that's really fair a and even fair within the three full-time people and the one part-time person. you know, I would think that they would have issues with that part-time person getting the same amount that they had gotten. So, those are those are a few um comments that I would like to make.

Comments from the commissioners. I every five years they get just an additional 600

basically. Yes. Yes. So, on your 10-year anniversary, you get $1,200 and that goes into your first paycheck of December. So, this Friday, uh those employees who have been here a minimum of five years will be getting their longevity pay. Um, it's a part it goes into your paycheck. So, it will be taxed appropriately, which means that, you know, uh, you know, you you probably will get $300 if you're the $600 person or $600 if you're the $1,200 person. Um, I know that comment was made uh with council that um, you know, the the Sunny Meadows employees after taxes and things would only get $3,000. Um same is true for everybody. You know it's the tax it's the tax system and it's up to what those individuals have um for their you know their exemptions.

Yeah. And obviously we have no way calculating that without seeing the year in tax state they Right. But some of them might not have any tax depends on what they earn and what their income level is and where they fall. Yeah. And I'm not sure that we even need to be worried about that. Yeah. I mean that's everybody pays their taxes. Exactly. Obviously uh we can't compensate for taxes paid but one thing I didn't want to add if if we was to apply the longevity paid no nobody out there would even qualify. You're correct. Yeah. Nobody has worked there for five years.

We haven't actually had that situation for several years having anybody work there that long. Any comments? Ellen, you have anything?

Well, we made a recommendation. It's in council's hands. I think it's council will do their due diligence and they'll make the final decision. So, I guess I'll stay with my recommendation and, you know, right or wrong. I have several employees that are not happy with us giving making that recommendation. And maybe it was right, maybe it was wrong, but we live with the consequences of our actions and [clears throat] uh life goes on. But the council, you know, has been discussing this and we'll make the ultimate decision. So, I put it in their hands. Let them do their, like I said, due diligence and whatever decision they be the final decision no matter what. So,

okay. I I just went on the record though that I am not approving. I went to draw. I don't think we did a Did we do a motion? We just do a consensus. We did [clears throat] a motion.

I was looking. Do you remember what date? I'm looking for that, but I have it I do have it noted in here that you retract that Can't remember what meeting review them. I don't see one. I see that on the October 27th meeting that we had the um Sunny Meadows committee had met. They would like to retain the land and turn it into a green space. They also feel that two months of pay would be a good stipen for the four county employees

that have remained with us through the transition of the residents knowing the facility would be closing. I have down and I just see the same notes. My notes say two months worth of pay, 1,500 for four of them. Does that add up to 6,000? No, there wasn't a 1500. Okay, that's what I had down. 6,000. So, I don't see an actual I have consensus of all three commissioners to support this. Kellen strongly recommends this. There is money consensus but I have I withdraw my consensus.

Need a motion. So um then for your motion of today of the 1500. If there's no second I guess you said it yourself. I think if there's no second it dies for lack of a second. Is there a second on my 1500? Second. [clears throat] Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. Went in the minutes. Got it. Okay. Moving on. Do you have anything else for us? Well, gee, whiz, I don't think so.

I have a I do have a quick question. Um, when I keep moving this from photo folder to folder, when do we need to talk about that Samaritan plan thing or is that I want to look into that a little bit more.

Yeah, that is we'll have to look at that after January because we've missed the deadline for you know implementing it as of January, but it will have to be while we're doing open enrollment. So, um, yes, and we've been in touch with, um, with Apex and talking to them about, um, what the possibilities are. The, um, there were several opportunities to watch videos to go into more detail. The Samaritan goes into more detail of how the plan works and um you know how it works for the employee, how it works for the employer. And so I went on that website and because all the ones were from earlier this year, I can't get in. You know, they they stop you. So, as soon as those are um available, we will be back in touch and we will let you guys know because we don't want that to fall either. So,

so we still have the ability I should say they still have the ability if they decide that we're going to do it that we can have it start with our new plan. Yes. Okay. As far as Yes. As far as we know, that will still be a viable um option. Okay. Yep. So, we're trying not to let it drop. Anything else? Anything for Okay,

you're you've excused. Go back out into the cold. All right, moving forward. Mr. Gomer, you are up. Good morning. Well, are you do you want to do the public nuisance ordinance or the ETJ first? I don't care. TJ's on the agenda for now. I say ETJ was on. Okay, we'll do the other after coming up. Mr. Proines.

Thank you.

ETJ agreement extr territorial jurisdiction. um agreement that we have um proposed with the city of Butler. Um this extra ex extr territorial jurisdiction um is already in place with Butler. Um for roads that are um in your packets, I included the existing ETJ area on the second to last page. And then on the last page is the ETJ expansion proposed. That won't be in the recorded document, but just for your guys' records. Um, so the city of Butler uh adopted a new comprehensive plan last month. Is that true? And um so with that new comprehensive plan, Indiana code requires that if a municipality exercises extr territorial jurisdiction um outside of their municipal limits, you have to have an agreement with the county in which the municipality is in. So that's what we are coming forward for today is the agreement. Um, there's been an extr territorial jurisdiction in the second to last page, the area that's not expanded for a long time. Before I got here, probably I would say 20 years or so, maybe

01. I think the last comprehensive plan was 01. 01. Okay.

So, at least since 2001. So, you're looking at 25 years ago. Um, that math right? Yeah. 25 years ago. Um, so there's been they've they've been practicing extr territorial jurisdiction. Now we have to have the the um agreement. We have this basically the exact same agreement with Auburn, Garrett, and Waterlue. Um because they all practice extr territorial jurisdiction. And then um like I said, Butler's is basically what we're doing is just putting in writing what the practice has been um for the last at least 25 years um

including the extra strip as well putting into the practice for the prior years plus the extra strip. Correct. We had asked for an extension. It made sense we have the border on our northern edge, our eastern edge, part of our western edge. We just want to finish out that box and give ourselves the same amount as the rest. Yeah. And that discuss Sorry, go ahead. The only thing we changed in that boilerplate agreement was we gave Butler a little more wiggle room to say, "We're not going to force you into sewer. We're not going to force you into water. If you want a well, if you want a septic, we just gave ourselves a little more language so that we could not make them do that or have a better way of saying you can do what you need to do in the country,

right?" Um, and the second I said that I, you know, it loses your train of thought if I don't get it out the second it comes to my lips, but um, it may come back. So, with that, we can go through this agreement. Um, I don't believe Jim or Kellen has been through an extr territorial jurisdiction agreement. Maybe Jim, were you on Auburn? No, you weren't on Auburn's. You were on our plan commission though for prior to Yeah. So, you may have seen these before, but um I think Bill may have been the only uh commissioner over recent that's um had these come through uh his eyes. But anyway, um so what we have proposed is basically the city of Butler will exercise planning and zoning jurisdiction. Um that's basically what part two on page two identifies. Um it states that basically anything within that area will go to their plan commission for any any any zoning matters. Um drainage board still has approval of drainage plans within the extr territorial jurisdiction. Uh flood plane management goes through their local flood ordinance and then any wetland protected areas um go through or sorry wetland wellhead protection areas go through their um their their zoning. Um sewer hookup like Andrew said is kind of the only thing that that we revised a little bit. Um, basically what it does is require new developments and new constructions within 300 feet of a gravity sewer to hook into the municipal system. Um, unless uh the cost of doing so is two times the cost of installing a septic on the site. Um, it does give the flexibility for the city to bridge that gap. Again, this is really no skin off your guys' back, but just so you know, um may bridge the gap

uh between the sewer hookups if it does exceed the two times requirement rule. Um but then also gives the city of Butler the right to um forego sewer connections really if it just doesn't make sense financially to run a sewer a half mile or quarter mile or 3/4 of a mile, whatever it might be, to pick up one or two homes in a potentially new development or or four or five if it's a if it's a sub if it's a um subdivision. Um next on section three gives them sub subdivision control. So kind of have we have um our our plat committee reviews our subdivisions. Um gives them the ability to have that subdivision control which again they've been doing in the existing ETJ. On page five and section four or part four is uh permitting. Um, again, just like they've been doing, they they issue the improvement location permits and then the county, as you guys know, issues the building permits for anything within the city of Butler and their ETJ. Um, anything that may need to go to the board of zoning appeals goes to the city's BZA. Um and then what we've added since recent is the enforcement of um the public nuisance ordinance. So anything within the ETJ area doesn't go to the city of Auburn or sorry city of Butler um but goes to uh our code enforcement for uh public nuisance um extr territorial jurisdiction determination. Um, as you see on page six, it includes the um, kind of L-shaped to the south, County Road 34 north to County Road 61 um, east and then 71 west. It's in that area labeled or shown in red.

Um, then it just gets into on section seven um, kind of the legalies matters of it all. Um we will have an effective date if it gets passed effective today um for this to take place. Um we do allow for 4year basically reviews and revisions if necessary. Um if nothing does get revised, it just remains in effect until um until it's modified by the city or the county. What is the current zoning in that extra territorial the additional strip? It's a mixture.

Um we had we had heavy industrial, we had residential, we had agricultural. So when we is it going to stay the same initially when they not not initially when we brought people in we notified them let them know etc. Um most people didn't say they wanted anything different. There was one large chunk of land that was a farm field, has always been a farm field, will always be a farm field. Um, and they were zoned residential by the county. We brought them in as agricultural. So, everybody got the zoning they either had or wanted. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to ask.

Yep. So, um the next exhibits after your signature pages um are uh road issues that um should there be any addition of roads that are in the ETJ, they must follow our county um standards. So, those are the county standards that have been in place for a while. It's the same that's what we have in Auburn and Garrett and Waterlue. And then exhibit E is what the city of Butler added um for what their uses are in their a district, their heavy industrial and their single family residential um district. So again, like Andrew just said, basically everything's remaining the same except for the large tract of agricultural land that was just south of the uh

south of the of the Yeah. the school and the industrial area over there. Yeah. So, with that, I'd be happy to take any questions you have. Um, it did go to plan commission. Um, oh gosh, what date was that? November 19th. November 19th. Thank you, Susan. And got a favorable recommendation um from the plan commission. This has gone to both the Butler Plan Commission and Butler City Council and they've um adopted this as well. Okay. Any additional questions, comments for Chris? So, these two maps are exactly the same.

Um, they are. And Chris had this one upside down. I was looking at it. I'm like, it doesn't make anyense. I did when it was stapled. Yeah. Um, they are except for just that red chunk on the last page is what we added to our That's not being recorded that way. And in and that, as you can see, I mean, it boxes it off perfectly. This was not like this was not, hey, I'm going to get more ETJ. This actually had been out there for two planners. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Moved it through. Um, and when I was going through files and stuff and Chris and he's like, "This is been proposed kind of for years." Yeah. I

like, "Well, that's perfect. It boxes off our ETJ. It's not a weird shape. It it makes sense." So, we're like, "Yeah, let's go. Since we're doing a comprehensive plan anyways, it's a perfect time to do it." These people are okay with that.

There was a lot of questions. Um, a lot of people didn't want it just for the pure perspective of it's something new. They're under a different jurisdiction. Um, there were a lot of questions about taxing, which we explained. We This changes nothing with taxing. We don't control your taxing. All this changes is the zoning. You come to um me when you want to do something. I give you a permit just like I would or anyone else in the city or in the rest of the ETJ. Um, something I didn't realize until recently is, um, our rates are a lot lower, so they'll actually be saving money. Um, now at some point we will raise our rates. We have to. We haven't raised them in forever, but we still intend to actually give um, the people in the ETJ uh, a discount on that because people in the city have always been following this process. And what it is is they have to go to me and then they have to go to the county for their building permit. Whereas these folks in the ETJ could just go to the county and be done with it. they paid a lot more. So, they'll always be paying a little bit less actually by us taking that ETJ and doing the zoning for that.

They'll pay less for their improvement location permit. So, the building permits are the same. They'll still pay the same at the county for the building permit, but they pay less for our improvement location permit, which they have to have for the county as well. So, they'll be saving a little bit of money. But really, the I mean the biggest changes are come to me, I give you a permit. You need a variance, come to me. um and we'll get you signed up and we'll go through our BCA instead of going through the county's BZA. If you want to put a big operation, a business or something, come to our plan commission and let our plan commission talk through it instead of the I was at the meeting you guys presented. All the information they're presenting now is the exact same thing they told all the people.

They had a lot of questions, but no one was adamantly against it. They just had a lot of questions. Just most of them just didn't want to change. Yeah. I mean, they they just had questions about taxation like that and what their what and uh ordinance, city ordinance versus county ordinance. That was a big one. Um are you going to enforce our no noise or ordinance on us? Are you going to do these things on the animals and that sort of thing, right? And which no, we're not our city or or our city codes do not apply to them. It's just our zoning purely the zoning. Yep. That's the only thing. Yep.

And I'll say it again. This does not change anyone's taxing. We are not taxing you. Um, city taxes, the county still takes care of it. So, okay. Uh, entertain a motion. So, moved. Second. A motion and second on the floor. Additional comments, comments from the public. Yes, sir. Come on up. State your name. Make sure that blue light's on on that mic. Find the button. There we go.

My name is Larry Kegley. I live at 3371 State Road 1, Butler, Indiana. And I own a property, own two properties. Um, I own some woodland over on County Road 63, basically right across from this Tri-State Motorsport Cycle Club. Um, I've been to a couple of the city meetings in Butler. Um, the city said they wanted to to square off this ETJ to the south. So, they have equal jurisdiction north and south. Um, I pulled up the beacon map in the measurement tool and north to south that's it's currently about as square as it can get. Um, with my measurements we're within about 300 ft. That's a rough guess on the the measurement tool. Um there is one section between 63, County Road 63 and County Road 61 on the map. Um that would actually square it up north to south uh between 32 and 34. That adds an additional I don't know what it would be 2,000 ft. Um, in this new expansion of the ETJ, there's roughly

147 acres of woodland. And I I am not real sure why the city wants jurisdiction over woodland and farmland. How many acres did you say there's roughly what how many acres of woodland? Uh roughly 147

um on on my 9 whatever acres over there. I like to hunt. Um, and you know, one of my fears is that at some point I may not be able to hunt my own land. I bought this this land in 2016. Um, and currently working on building a home on that. Uh, I've worked with Chris and Charity over there. uh with building permits and I've done my soil test for my septic etc. Um and I know Andrew has spoken about people building close to the tri-state motocross there and that is close uh basically right across the road. I'm familiar with the Tri-State Motors Club over there. Um, and the noise doesn't bother me. I can hear it from where I currently live over on State Road One. Uh, they're they're not a problem. It's great that they can run their business out there and people can get outside. Um, Andrew had spoke about, I believe it was in a county meeting. I I watched the minutes on the YouTube about letting people do what they've always been able to do until the land changes hands or sells. will that be documented or

so what we had actually gone through all of this and that's what we were intending to do we did not do that and the reason is is nobody lost anything so there wasn't a need for the historical we were going to do that um particularly on egg but after we went through it no one lost the ability to do anything um yeah and the uses are all similar um as far as hunting goes, you're not you're not going to lose you're not going to lose the right to hunt. We're not once again, our ordinances for the city or our codes are not going to apply to you. Um the Tri-State Motor Club had raised some concerns because they have very loud and they they wanted to know if our codes for noise were going to apply to them. We said absolutely not. Uh, one of the things we did mention though is let's say that someone comes in and they come to me and I know locally that that club is very loud and they want to build over there, but they don't realize this. I would have the ability to say, "Hey, I'm I'm pretty local and I know that this is loud. Do you really want to build a house here or would you rather look for a different piece of property?" Just as a a pre-warning. Sometimes the county is not fully aware of the ins and outs right next to the city. Um, you know, noises, things like that. Um, but we we had mentioned that as far as the square, I I see what you're saying. So, you're saying just extending like 300 foot would make it a perfect square.

Um, by my measurements on the map, if we are at the intersection of State Road One and US6, I'm going to call that the heart of the city. Okay. If we go north to counter road 24, we're at 5,62 feet going north. South, we're 5,364 ft currently.

That That's my fault. I didn't phrase it properly. Um it the point was to we have if you if you look at the map, we have this much on the north end of the city limits. It was to bring that down to the next road. Um, so that we also had that same buffer on the south side. I said square. I was using a general square it up as in give us kind of the same border on all sides. So that's that's my fault. I didn't mean a perfect square. I didn't mean a square. I meant give us the same border on each side. I should have been more specific about that. In general, if you follow county roads, it's never going to be perfectly square.

No. I mean, it's this was as close as we could get. And like I said, this was this was not I I didn't come out when we started let's finalize this comprehensive plan. I didn't say let's expand the ETJ. We pulled up some old files two planners ago and it was like oh that actually makes a lot of sense. Like you know uh as far as as far as you building I want you to build um I mean you could even see in the ETJ agreement um the sewer and all that kind of stuff like we we want you to do that. the city doesn't want to extend all the way out there into the ETJ when we don't have to. And everything you're doing with Chris and them um on that soil test, etc. I mean, that's all still valid, Chris, right? I mean, all of that work.

Yeah, but right, but as far as a building permit, still county, right? Um as far as putting in a septic, a well, all county. You're still you're still good to go there. and and he has been at both city meetings. Very good questions, lots of conversation. So, okay.

Uh, one of my other concerns is uh we'll kind of in a way be governed by the city, but we won't be able to vote in city elections. Uh, that's I like to exercise my right to vote. So I assume that's that's in the state code.

It is and I actually gave this a lot of thought um because it was a very good question. Uh and even um Amy Proer had gotten up and spoken on it during the city meeting. Um the ETJ has two representatives. So they do have representation within the ETJ on the plan commission

on the plan commission. Now, if we were changing their tax structure, if we were changing what they had to pay for taxes, it would make sense that they would be able to vote in a city election, but we're not changing any money they pay. We're not changing the taxes that they pay. Now, if the ETJ was able to vote, they would be able to vote out who they want, put in who they wanted, vote out who they wanted, and not suffer any ramifications of a change in taxes. So, they could effectively put whoever they wanted in within the city. Taxes could change, but it would have no repercussion to them. So, it doesn't make sense that they would have an actual vote in city elections, but it does make sense that they have representation on the plan commission for themselves. If uh I could speak to that too. It's the state legislature um Larry is it?

Yes. It's a state legislature that probably 30 years ago maybe more than that

more than that created the extr territorial jurisdiction. I remember the first time I heard about it I thought well this is weird. Why would a city or town get to control part of the county? That's what I guess they decided to help the cities and towns be able to have some influence on what the sides of their borders look like. Basically, do they want housing in this area? Do they want industry in this area? That sort of thing. And for whatever reason, the state legislature decided that this was a positive thing. Now, we might all agree or disagree with it now, but it is something the state legislature said is possible to do or that kind of allowing cities and towns to have some influence. So, maybe it makes uh it it probably as towns and cities increase in size like Carmel or Indianapolis or Fort Wayne, they can kind of make sure that things that are consistent with that are on their borders. That's the idea of it. as we bring them in. Your egg, your egg, your high heavy industrial, your heavy industrial, you have permitted uses. That's why we're bringing you in under the same categories. I I can't say no to a what they can do, right? It's not like I can say, "Well, you're in a single family residence. I'm not going to allow you to build a house." I can't do that.

They still get to do what they what they're able to do with their property. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Okay. Any other comments? If hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Oppose. Motion carries. Thank you guys. I This is great. We've been trying to get the comprehensive plan completely passed over at Butler. So, we appreciate your guys' help. Okay, moving on.

Okay. Do you want to do the public nuisance ordinance while Chris is here? Let's do it. I think we can do it pretty quick, can't we? I think so. That quick. Has the changes or the the corrections? I made sure checked. Take your word for it. I'll I'll show I got copies. got the guillotine ready if you

maybe not [snorts] [clears throat] Okay. So, uh revisions have been made. they are corrected. Um, specifically under abandoned vehicles, um, having a valid registration, um, on page three, the resident, uh, can live directly across Dow County lines, uh, to offer a complaint. Um, but really everything is same. I believe Susan made a couple small tweaks with it, but um everything that we've discussed is the is the same. Um the only the only things that I changed was we had talked about having it listed that whatever your hearing place was the commissioner's court. It originally had said Daryl D. Cruz commissioner's court in the courthouse. So I just changed it to Commissioner's Court of Decal County so that if your courtroom ever changes, we don't have to redo it.

Change. Yeah. Um so with that, if there's any questions or anything like that, um I'd be happy to take them. I can go through the the ordinance again if you want, um as well, but I don't think that I think we've gone through it a lot. Yeah. I think we we've been through it a couple three times. Yeah. Yeah. Just so the changes are are in there that Yeah, they are pointed out. Any questions, comments, commissioners? [laughter] I apologize.

I would so move we accept county ordinance number 2025- 0-7 as presented. On first reading on first reading sorry motion second additional comments all those in favor signify by saying I I oppose carries. I'm going to suspend the rules and do second and third. I want to have another concern I want to look at. So can we wait till next meeting to do the second and third? Yep. There's an idea that I I've been pondering. I haven't figured out how to exactly do it yet. So okay that'll work. Okay. See you next meeting.

Take care. Be safe. Always stay warm. Staying safe. Same thing. Chris. Chris. Jace.

Just I guess Andrew the Albury property. Yes. Um, I' I've been past it several times and I'm sorry, there's absolutely whatever his lawyer is saying is nothing has happened. Absolutely nothing has moved. And for the record, his lawyer is only reporting what he's hearing from his client, not out of, you know, I understand. I just wanted to make it public that uh his lawyer saying one thing versus what he's getting from Mr. Albbright, right? But there's absolutely nothing has moved. Nothing.

Okay. Well, they have they have about two more weeks uh to respond to our discovery. When that happens, then we can proceed forward with the case and do a motion. I pre um am planning to do a motion for a summary judgement, meaning trying to win the case based on our affidavit and evidence without having to go through a trial because there just isn't enough progress. I can't up next meeting. I was going to say I met with him Saturday and I don't think he's going to do anything budge and he thought it was just the piles of poles that all he had to take care of and I said no. Yeah, they moved them back behind the trees. Yeah, they're trying to hide them. Moved them around. They're not what they call removed,

right? They were moved but not removed, right? Yeah. And I told him, well, I had you two gentlemen here. I just it's something I wanted to address and I thought it two of you were here so Yep. Yeah. All right. Thanks you. All right. Thank you. Get out of here.

Mr. Parker, you are up. infection.

No, am I How do you think Chris is staying? Supposed to get a picture of this for sure. You guys want to get a picture? Congratulations, man. Yeah. How many years? 10 years. 10 years. Wow. Wow. Well, here we put up within 10 years. Another 10. Andrew, you want in? Come on in. I'll go this side. [snorts]

[laughter] [laughter]

Well, thank you guys. Appreciate that very much. So that's what I was asked to come up early for. Huh. Well, Bill has to leave early today, so he wanted to be able to do it while he was here. Gotcha. Okay, Ben, what you got for us?

Well, I got a letter from SurfNet. Catch some of you guys up to speed here. Uh they started working again last week on some roads that they wasn't supposed to. They had to stop work order. I went out and we talked to them. We stopped them and then they asked about proceeding forward. And I explained to them about the stop work order and where we was at. And they asked about if they would give us a letter or statement stating that they will remove the conduit once weather allows because we did get a lot of snow. They're worried about traction on pulling this. So, I I can see it both ways. I think that they could probably remove it. Um, but they all they also are operating off of a grant, put all this in, and there's deadlines on that, and they're worried about meeting that as well. We have a $100,000 bond on them. And now we have this letter that Pat McCaulay sent to me late Friday afternoon stating that they will pull this by or pull the old conduit I mean new conduit that was installed incorrectly when the weather allows. Um Mr. Shane Gan also called Bill on Friday. Hartman, talked to him. Then Bill called me and we spoke about it briefly. You know, I thought about this a little bit and again, it's totally your guys's discretion what you'd like to do. But as far as Surf Net, I'm disappointed because they've had a lot of errors. Not just this one. I mean, since they've been working in the county, this project or this process has not gotten better. It's everything that they're on. They put it in wrong. They put it in the wrong place next to the road. That point I don't feel really too bad for. And I've told them I told them that Friday. Um the only reason I'm considering about moving forward with this is if you guys decide

so is it's it's more so for the residents in the county that don't have internet. You know, that's the people that if we hold them up, they lose their grant that's going to suffer from us holding them. What they did is wrong. It needs to be removed. And I'm okay with letting them go forward if you guys are. Like I said, we have their bond. We have a letter if Andrew is okay with the verbiage on it. If not, like I said, I didn't get this sent out because he sent late Friday. And that's my question. You don't mind,

Andrew? Is with this letter, if they don't do it, this letter is enough proof to take him to court saying that they promise that they would. Well, uh, so what I look at is whether or not something is an uninforcable promise or is there, um, legal consideration for that promise, making a binding contract. And looking at this letter, it says their commitment to remove the improperly placed referred to as K surf. So it is um work with us on this move.

Would that be kind of irrelevant though considering we do have the bond? We do have the bond. I think it's very helpful that we have the bond. I don't know if this letter meant anything or

this this letter is something that we can certainly use against them. They theoretically could argue it's just a promise. So what are we doing in response? What we we do have something that we're giving up which would be our our right to make them pull it out. Now, um I it I guess if I was writing it up, I would have added that paragraph in there saying um you know like they admit that they have the duty to do it. Number one, uh that they are agreeing to do it um when the conditions weather road and weather conditions allow to maintain clean and safe removal. And they acknowledge that the county is U or they're they're hoping that the county Yeah. because of the way it's set up with this just being their promise. I would say it's enforceable more because we have a bond and less because of the letter, but we could certainly use it against them. It's not necessarily a binding contract signed by both sides. But so take it for what it's worth, maybe is the right way to say. I mean, it's valuable because they can't, you know, it's going to be hard for them to get out of it. But

now, we could, if you guys wanted to proceed, have Andrew send me what he'd like to see in it, make it contingent on them adjusting their letter accordingly. I mean, I could add another couple of sentences to it potentially. Um, one of the issues that I have is it doesn't have an end date that they have to have it done by That's true too. Yes. Because I mean to say it we'll do it when the condition maybe conditions for them are never it just we could say out two years and obviously

how long would it take them to get it out if they just put all their energy into it. Let's say the road and weather conditions get better mid-March. I mean, I don't know when it'll get better, but let's say mid-March. Should it take them two weeks and they'll be done or Well, I don't know. I can't answer that. I haven't Okay, I've never We could say be done by the end of April or something. So, April, March could be a problem. If we get a hard freeze and this this thing freezes in, they're never pulling. Did we say be be done by mid May, by end of April? I would say May 1st, May 15th. Okay. That gives them Okay. April. Yeah.

If they're going to Are they They said they're going to pull it. They're not going to dig it up. They They think they can pull it. And then do they have to redo it then? They've already redone it. Oh, they've already redone it. They just have to pull the old out. So maybe by May 1st it would make sense. If they're just going to pull it, that should be done. If it pulls, if it pulls often pull out a section, they could do it within a few days theoretically if they worked hard at it. They've got quite a bit, but they could pull it all. They worked at it. They could It's either going to pull or not, right? I mean, if it pulls, then they can just keep pulling. But again, my a concern I would have is uh it goes in a lot easier than it'll come out. Oh, really? That's very true.

It is plastic. And if you pull it so far, it could just crack. Well, just break off. And now you got a section left that's not going to get pulled up. When they bore that, Andrew, they'll go through and they'll bore that hole bigger than the conduit. Conduit slides in. Then as we get rain, freezing thaw, it settles around it, tightens up. Well, didn't they ditch it was the problem? No. Oh, they board it. They board it. They just board it too close to the road. Well, not deep enough. Deepallow. Way too shallow. Too shallow. Too shallow. It's like 18 to 20 inches deep.

Well, we could say must be done by May 15th. So, at least there's a final end date in there. 2026 and um we could word it in there if it's not complete by them then we're going to issue a stop work order on all their work until it's done. Yeah. Or another stop work order be issued. Yep. That way they don't that way they know they got to do it. We worked with them. Yeah. We could do May 22nd because the next commission be the 26th that following Tuesday. Okay. May 22nd because the other one's the uh 14 um the 11th. So, if we do it up to that Friday before a meeting, that way if we know it's not done, we can make it a motion.

And I think I'm putting in here, I'll put in something along the lines of Surf Net acknowledges the county will rely um upon the promise or statement in this letter. to lift the current upwork order. Something like that. But then you're still going to need a motion, I think, to do all of this. Subject to my language being added and them accepting it, right?

And them accepting it. Yeah. They'll have to issue a new updated letter. What do you need today? I think a motion to say that Ben can release or the stop work order if SurfNet does a letter, a new letter with the language I was reading on your on my repro approval with the additions that I discussed. So moved and second additional comments. All those in Go ahead. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed.

Okay. We're moving forward with the what? Oh, with allowing Ben Parker, having Ben Parker release the stop work order that the highway department has on SurfNet. So, there's currently a stop work order. Okay. They authorized it to be released if Surfet does another letter with my additional language. Okay.

I was going to bring this subject up since we're on it anyway. Uh this past week I was at the Indiana Commissioners Conference and Surf Net Internet had a booth there. Stopped by and I met Scott Franco who is the director of business development and community relations and uh we had I had a very very frank conversation told him I had a staff work order. He said he'd do nothing of what the issue was. And uh I'm wondering if that's why you got a phone call on what Friday. So that would have been Wednesday when I talked to him. Uh he was very disturbed. Uh didn't know anything about it. And uh I I was very frank and said that if they want to do business in this county, they better get their act together and get it act together very very soon. which is I'm guessing why this letter was sent. So I anyway I was I yeah it was not a pleasant conversation for him nor me but uh I felt like this is somebody that's I think like like down the chain third third person down from the president and vice president and so hopefully the message got through which apparently they're trying. So The gentleman that called Bill, he was from Directline.

From where? Direct line. That was Shane Gan and Pat McCaulay is with Surfnet. So them two work together, but the boring direct line has it installed. Surfnet's Surf Net's internet way I understand. Well, both of them are in Yeah. Well, if you have any more issues, uh I think I'll just give you this card and you can contact this Mr. Franco directly and uh we'll see where it goes. But

okay, if they don't have immense improvement very soon. It's the citizens of the county are the ones that are going to get right. And that's why I thought about it after me and Bill talked too is that it's it's not so much for them because they've made enough mistakes. I don't mind making exception. Everybody makes mistakes, but there's been a lot. Yeah. Like say the just the fact that they had crews working on Saturday and Sunday with no supervisor is he was Mr. Franco was very disturbed about that as well. Right. So,

okay. You got some other business to cover before you leave, Bill, because I can come back in. I have nothing. I'm Yeah, I got to take off. You finish up with what you've got with Yeah. I just had a few things. Um uh yeah, I'm going to book out of here. Uh before I go, one thing. The schedule meetings next week. I'd like to table that. Okay. Let's table that. Yeah. table that for two weeks and get back in that and next meeting. So other than that, I turn over to uh presidents. You can flip for who has the gavl.

Rock paper scissors perhaps could be a legal way of handling it. Before you go, what's your thoughts on the CDL physical reimbursements? The CDL physical reimbursements. You want to table that till next meeting? It's on the uh discussion topics.

That was just the email that I sent you guys because none of you responded to me. So, I put it on here to discuss it to find out if it was that set amount per year or if it if we can do more than the up to 105 or whatever it said. In the past, we've done well, there's no guarantee on any driver your time you're going to get. You're going to get a six month, you're going to get a one year, you're going to get a twoyear. That's all the doctor's discretion. Um, I'm pretty upset with the whole CDL physical thing because personally, I feel it's a money grab on a lot of it for what they put us through. Uh, a lot of that is just doctor's discretion. The one that raised a question was uh one of my younger employees they pinned him for a sleep study and uh only gave him a three-month I think three-month extension. So he had to go for the sleep study. He had to pay for all that out of his own pocket. Insurance don't pay for that. Then you got to go back in and and uh get your CDL renewed. So that's part of holding your license. That's part of the requirement we have or your I mean, you got to have the license to drive. It don't happen all the time, but it happens. I've had some get whatever and they get a six-month extension. The thing is ironic is you can think you're perfectly healthy, but going for a CDL physic, you'll find out different because I think it's just how they do it. I could be wrong, but it's pretty discouraging. That's why I've asked before about permission to have us go different areas to different doctors because there's some I I I'll tell I tell them too. I think it's a money grab way to get people in and out and come back for

Teddy. Did you do you know how much the sleep study cost?

I think well they got to have the study done and then they got to buy the machine as well if they get diagnosed with it. I think the studies three to $500 out of pocket. And then the machine, unless they buy it um or rent it, I think it's like $1,500 for the machine. Then once they have that, that machine is hooked to most of them go through like a wireless net and it reports to them every day, the doctor. Then when they go in for their physicals, they actually got to take that report in. They got to have it on What is it? 80% of the time or they'll fail. They don't have that machine on that machine registers when you're on it. It's pain. And I think I've got some that's on it that I don't think ought to be on it because they he brought in his report. He has zero episodes. But

I mean, if the sleep study shows that you don't have sleep apnea, they ought not to. It goes off. They can do the machine. You're you're a male, right? Over 40. And one other thing, and boom, you're going for it. Yeah. But the sleep test would hopefully show they're I mean, they don't order the machines unless the sleep test shows they're You go to one doc and you got to have I'm just going to I'm just guessing. Let's just say you got to have a sleep study number of four or higher. One I I know is on it. His is 07. You shouldn't even be having we shouldn't even be having that discussion after a certain point. Yeah.

But there again, whoever the doctor that does the CDL physical has to approve you to come back. And it's not the family docs doing it. There's separate CDL physics.

Most family doctors won't do it because they don't. There's no money in it. And you got to be state certified and take the state tests and doctors make more money seeing regular patients than doing EDL physical. The one that we're seeing now is a ways away and his uh his pool's growing because the word's out that he's decent guy, a decent guy to deal with. So there's a lot of people traveling to go to him because there's a time and place when you need something and when you don't. So, I mean, it's your guys's discretion. Um, it's not uncommon to get two in a year. I mean, if you want to put a cap on it, that's up to you. I would recommend at least maybe two a year per person. I got some it's on a one year and if they happen to get a six month or if they get three months ding I understand you don't want to cover a guy to go in every three months but I know it's also burdensome on them as well. I mean you can go in there and be perfectly fine and your anxiety gets up. So when your anxiety gets up your blood pressure is up. You know how that works. and you and you can pull up your your my chart and say, "Look, every time I've been at my family dock, it's been normal. But since I'm here, it's high, but it don't matter. It's got to be down. It's a hassle, guys. I'm just being honest." So, He He's not asking. I'm asking because I have two claims that I need to reimburse an employee for that we've already done this year.

Yes, sir.

I sent it to you. Our current pol, it just says that um they would reimburse highway employees for their CDL physicals up to $109 with proper documentation. So, I was clarifying if that was up to 109, no matter how many physicals they had to have, or just one per year. You're asking for they have a three month or and or a six month. So, they would have at least two or four So the most we've ever seen is two. And this year we just happen to have two right in a row that two different employees right in a row that got the shorter one. So they are having their second physical now and submitted for reimbursement.

It would be okay. No more than four. way would cover the three month pay to have an employee that's especially a good employee not be able to work because of this. Right. And if they have to do this, right?

Right. Then they have paid. You know, I got an employee now that's on one. He told me that his doctor would release him if he didn't have a CDL. That once you're issued that, they will not take you off of it. And I don't agree with that either. I mean, person's health can change and get better. I don't know. There's also other things that can be done instead of the CPAP machine. And there's other options sometimes like a mouth guard to move the tongue back and forth. And I don't know how much you guys know about that. There's a few other things. There's things coming out. Yeah, there is.

But that all goes back to that doctor and that sleep study. And either way, it's that part of it is on the Okay. It's literally just the physical whether we reimburse for more than one. I say pay those two claims and we revisit this next meeting. Clarify it up. That That's what I would do. That'd be my motion.

Anyone in the audience hearing? No one by saying yes if you're approved. Yes. Opposed. Motion carries. You said there's three months. Six months. I don't want to lose an employee that's been out there for a long time and lose have a CDL problem because it's hard to get people at least two a year. I think sometimes they get dinged and it's not they didn't even know it was coming. So, and again it's the doctor's discretion

and Ben's absolutely correct. family doctor don't even they don't want to get certified they're becoming fewer and farther get PDL license or physicals not the license but the physical yeah that's required by law to get a letter from the BMV the months I'm due and I don't have it in by that date sounds like it's creating a little bit of a bottleneck not enough But the demand is still high. So

they're doing stuff different now, too. They got it uh where we got to go in and do queries on our drivers or network. So you're they used to go when you go in for your CDL physical, they would give you your whole physical back. They don't do that anymore. It all gets electronically uploaded to the BMV from them and then all we get is the receipt and then the little medical back paper of it

saying okay or not. Basically, uh, you used to have to carry that with you. You don't no more because it's all electronic in the computers. If the cop pulls you over, it's all on there. Uh, because there used to be guys that would go from your doc, I'd go to your physical, you'd want me to sleep study or say, "My blood pressure is too high." And then I'd go to gym. I just leave there. I go right over to gym and gym and pass me. Uh, because that's what I said. It's a total doctor discretion. Some's harder than others. Well then now that's all getting uploaded into the system can't do that. Yeah. So the ways around things is coming obsolete.

So the other thing I had uh the permits for the highway we moved any further with that um the fees and then also I didn't know how Andrew was doing on the ordinances.

Yes. Uh, I've received some emails with some comparables from their state roads. Most of them's one trip. Prices is all over the place. I don't know if you guys done any research or gotten any feedback, but all I know is all grain at Bluffton is 43.95 or $43.95 per trip. Go down 69. I didn't we're doing it about 100 times a year.

I understand. I uh let my parallegal know that I need to I would like to meet with you and her and I and just kind of go through it. That'd be fine. because she's got some prepared, I believe, but there's just enough moving pieces that it would be helpful to have your brain in on it, making sure we got it all set up before we bring it to the commission. That'd be great. That's where we are. So, we're in process on it.

I can send you guys a few of them emails I've received, but the state permits, let you glance at them. I've reached out to some other counties. A lot of them's not charging yet. And actually, I've had three counties reach out to me and want the permits that I've drafted, they want to do them themselves. So, I guess uh if I get any more, I will look at the fees and I'll try to summarize them or send them to you. Then we can we're going to have to either keep what we have or amend it, change it for the one on SDI road seems to be the only one I've got. Then the last thing I got is just I sent you guys an email last week that the Cal County was awarded to CCMG in this last call for the million dollars. I heard from Mayor Hartman and Butler that uh he was at a mayor's conference and said a lot of the communities he heard didn't receive any or or all of it. And I heard that from a couple of our consultants that a lot of communities didn't receive one. So that's That's good. I mean, we received a whole million. So, that's that's great. We got that. So, um the commissioners conference SP1 was obviously a big discussion and there were several counties at least three or four that said they got zero. Be ticked is kind of very very unhappy. So,

I wasn't about to tell him. Right. Right. [laughter] Well, I I'm thankful we got it and uh you and me both. It helps us with our infrastructure and yep and moving forward. So, there's a another $1.3 million project coming to Cal County next year through community crossings. Um I'm working on the bid docks with that. So, we'll be having that up to see you soon. And then just remember Susan, the next meeting we'll have our bid opening for our annual bids. Okay. Oh, I believe that's all I have for you guys today. I have one thing. Okay.

Oh, go ahead. You can do yours. Um, they need to acknowledge receipt of this bond from Do they acknowledge receipt or approve it? Either. I I would probably just have them accept it. Accept it. So, we have the maintenance bond for Bear Creek um section 10 that you guys need to

accept MO with a motion. Second presented first discussion public hearing favor signify saying I I can bring up my thing for for Ben. It's the uh frontier. This is a uh claim that Frontier is making for $11,827.54 a cable they say we cut but we didn't cut. This is from months and months ago. They reached out again about that to me like months later. They claimed they had emailed me in October but I don't recall getting the email. So they emailed it to me. I think our my discussion I had with Ben was that it just wasn't it wasn't our fault that you had evidence from your guys they could swear to under oath that they don't believe they cut it. It doesn't look like they cut it. It was an older cut or something like that. So um so based upon that I would um we can either turn it into our insurance company at this point potentially. I don't know that we did that before or we can't because we just we hadn't done it and we told them I think we let them know that we didn't accept this as a claim. You had let them know at least. So

this was months ago or I might have. Yeah. So at this point they're pushing it forward which may or may not mean that they're going to file some sort of a suit on it. I don't know. Um maybe now is the time to turn it into our insurance company. Um, I can certainly say the county still has the same position as we had before, saying we're denying the claim. You have any thoughts on it, Ben? No, I would have to look through my notes to refresh my memory a little bit, but I'd uh I felt like we were justified in saying it was I know I went through it with you, whatever one it is. So

if if if we was at fault and I felt we was at fault, I would have told Andrew that hit it. Would you guys be okay if I just turned that into our insurance company at this point? I mean, I don't know. It's under our guess it's under our deductible, which is 25,000. This is 11,87 82754. Yes. So it's under our deductible. I don't know if they'll do anything or not. I don't know if they do anything or not. And the attorney fees could start to I don't know. Or we could I don't know. Okay. 10:00 break.

Yep, we're ready. We're back in session. Um, coming in at 10:45. Yeah, have a little bit of time. Yeah, we'll do the uh payroll bi-weekly. We'll second that. Any discussion? Discussion is I talked to Bill Hartman. He was okay with it too.

Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Carried. Next we have claims. Do you have any issues with claims? I have no concerns with claims. I asked Bill before he left. He had no issues with either. A motion. I'll make a motion. Second motion. You have question. Okay.

It's [clears throat] just for learning knowledge for myself. Uh the highway bond as the under auditor 50069 says syncing fund. What does syncing fund mean?

That is um so I'm trying let me think about this. that is the one that is backed up and paid by um lit dollars which um comes from your guys's lighted fund. So each month when we receive our lighted distribution then um we move 16th of the bond payment from fund 1112 which is your guys's lighted into that fund so that we can make the payment out of there. So by the time the June um that money comes in and that sixth payment gets moved over, then that fund has exactly what needs to be sent to pay the B and then it starts over next. I thought it was something special.

Thank you. You're welcome. [clears throat] Having a motion and a second to accept the uh claims as presented. Any discussion? Anyone in the audience? Hearing no one. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I motion passes. Next we have the minutes. Is there any discussion or questions about minutes? Hearing none. Is there a motion to accept minutes?

I would second that motion. There any discussion from audience? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I

I passes. No opposition. The Videll lawsuit hearing. None. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries. elevator maintenance agreement tabled from last meeting. We want to table that again. I did talk to Bill before he left. Um he would want to know if we could get Otis to agree to a one-year contract. That's something we could do. Andrew, did you I mean, we talked about we talked about it last meeting. I don't know if we ever did anything else with it.

No, because you guys told Unless you were tableling it and jail for the jail. Do you um do you want it one year or do you want it um is that I'm trying to think the invoice that I paid I think it said it was good through like August 26 or something. Do you want it to go

or what the invoice that invoice I paid? Let me see.

[snorts]

think [cough] because as we move forward with locked in, we don't want to be locked into it long term with the But the invoice specifically had a date range on it. So it would be nice if they could match those ranges instead of having a contract. It's confusing how they do it because their dates like they had that invoice that I had to pay because it said that it was good but then they came back and said we didn't even have

they did it. Yes. So their invoice says maintenance maintenance service from 912025 to 8312026. So you still don't want a contract with we don't have a contract with them. We paid for it. I mean, why don't I just Yeah. Yeah.

Renew. But we're going to get it so that whatever contract ends the same time that their invoice says it ends.

Yes. That's 91. Andrew gets back. HPS grant submission. That was the email from Michelle Fosna. She has the ability to submit a grant. Let me think. for a small grant um to do she would like to do a purchase of a new field radio that would connect with dispatch for DCC staff to use during field contacts. So we just need to do a formal approval of submitting that

second. The only question I had is does it commit the county to spending any money that's appropriated yet or is that just a grant and they get dispended so to speak? It would it would be a grant and then we still would have to I don't think so. But we would That was my question whether it had a match. No, but we still have to appropriate this money whenever it comes. But it's not new tax dollars going forward was has nothing to do no tax dollars whatsoever.

Okay, that was my only question when I read it over. We have a motion a second to I'll to move forward with the HPS grant submission as presented. Any other discussion or questions? One from the audience hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I post. Motion carries the CDL physical reimbursements. We've already covered Catalyst pay system.

Sure. [clears throat] Um, Andrew, did you ever that Alar did he ever contact you back? So, we have the survey surveyor's office is wanting to be able to accept credit cards.

No, I left a voicemail for Alice and did not get any calls back, but I was a day I guess. So it is through value pay systems and we have a um submitter merchant processing payment processing agreement that needs approved. They are also explaining or telling us that we have to approve a catalyst company that um I'm trying to figure out why we need both because I haven't had that in other departments. But let me find my email because I asked Joanie if she would look at it for me and she explained She believes that Catalyst would be the online payment service provided provider to the county. Then Catalyst creates and maintains the online payment site, then uses value pay behind the scenes to actually process the payment. So I had reached out to their people and they tried to get a hold of me last week when I didn't have a voice. I couldn't talk to them. [snorts] And so I had Andrew leave him a message, contact them. I would I would like you guys to approve these and maybe on the catalyst one we could approve it contingent on Andrew's discussion with their catalyst

representative and are we we're trying to look to make sure that we're not being like double charged is that our kind of our concern or I'm we may not know enough to know right I'm just not sure this document here the value pay that actually says value payment systems in it. World pay also join value pay. So this is the only type of document that I have like say for development services. I don't have a why is cat so the question is why is catalyst required.

They're connected somehow. I'm just not sure how but we also need to get it up and running for the surveyor's office.

Oh which one does the I don't know. The treasurer used to use value pay. They don't use them any longer. I don't know what the clerk's office uses. I asked um uh Community Corrections, they use um they use value pay. She told me that Catalyst is who provides the point of sale handheld units for value pay. Um, but she couldn't find any of their contracts and agreements either. So, I didn't have anything to go off by there. So, we we need to approve both. And this is the one I think you reviewed this one. This was the

You did you've done the value pay one multiple times. One is actually just collecting the funds and the other one is actually doing the bookkeeping. Simple way of putting it [clears throat] from from what I understand so far. Yes.

Or it could be like when is the machine that you're running in service to to handle. You think catalyst is probably for They're going to need to get something here. They're I mean their fees will start. They already started. Yeah, they already started. So, how long is they term for it again? a year.

Uh well, it was three SL or three to five because this proposed contractal had for five perthes three years. So value pay says this agreement shall continue in effect until the earlier of a termination or expiration of your VPS customer agreement or a period of one year after the date on which you first d your first draft is presented to the bank following acceptance of such term will automatically remove for one year period. basically

three to five year. Uh well this particular document it says both three and five years so it doesn't really say I didn't know they should probably do a sort of aed agreement probably do a motion to step both contracts the having cruise amended agreement for a one-year contract,

just a one year for the uh Oh, that way they're both on the same page. Don't like that makes a lot of sense. I don't like having two different dates trying to remember You would approve it subject to it being a one year and we can see if Catalyst would do a one year that accept.

Yeah, I agree because I don't want to have we decide to go a different uh pay system that they use a different machines and we're paying for two different machines. Are you moving what he suggested someone could move? I'm just second your motion. Okay. So, Jim moved it. All right. Jim moved it. I made [snorts] the motion. I'll second it.

Have a motion, a second on the floor. Any other discussion among commissioners? Anyone from the audience? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. I. opposed. Motion carries and I'll reach out to I guess making it a one year for Catalis and confirming why we need it. Believe that covers all of the uh I see that discussion and action topics and items. Do you have anything more?

Um, yeah. One second.

Um, the only thing I had because we are tableabling the [snorts] meeting calendar is we have um received all of the drug-free decal grant contracts. So last meeting you approved them to be offered and now they come back and the they send back the contract and the umus that they have to do. So now we have to approve for you to sign the the contracts between the entity and the co

to approve um commissioner signature on the um on the Decal County drug-free grant recipient contract with Decal County Commissioners. So moved second to accept pay not pay, excuse me, not pay to signatures on the drug Greg Dealb contract as presented.

Yep. There any discussion of commissioners? Kellen moved it. Did you second it? Yes. Okay. Anyone from the audience hearing? No one. All in favor signify by saying I. I post. Motion carried. Hey. [clears throat] That is all that. Yeah, he's move on to [snorts]

that sir. [clears throat] Morning. Morning. Okay, thank you. He had to leave early.

I can't. It's up to you guys how you take. I think Thank you, sir.

Yep. take our way.

Good morning. Thanks for having me in this morning to talk about the work comp renewal. All right, we've got uh a great renewal here from IP. We were expecting it. Wasn't surprised. We knew it was going to be a positive renewal, but it's also fun to come in and, you know, share what you guys are doing that's really helping as a county. and then also how IP's helped and Morgan have helped and kind of talk through it. Obviously, if you guys have any questions, feel free to ask them, but we can start to dive in here. Uh we've got um we've had a situation with in the county where the work comp has been less profitable for uh the carrier going back three and four years. And we've talked a lot about the experience mod and how that affects pricing. It's a calculation that's done by the state by NCCI and that either drives up cost because we've had a lot of claims or it can drive down costs if we don't have a lot of claims and we're we're more fa favorable on claims experience and so we're seeing a down tick on the experience mod right now that's going to continue this year and then into next year which is positive and we can kind of talk through all the specifics of what drives that answer any questions you guys have and and kind of go from there. Okay. Um if you look at that first page kind of the loss trends this is the losses like we said are what drives the experience mod and in a big calculation of the pricing. Uh this current 2025 year we've got 29,000 in claims which is a really positive year. Um we've got 14 total claims if you go down to the middle of that page. So, we've got a 15% loss ratio for the current year in 14 claims. Um, claims can can look two different ways. You can look at frequency, how many claims we have, and then severity. You could have only three claims, but if you have a

huge one, it can have a negative impact, right, on loss ratio. We're seeing a downtick not only on our large claims, but also just claims frequency as well. you go back and look year by year, we average upper 20s for claims per year. And so far this year, we have 14. So we're almost cut in half of what the claim situation is. Uh we've been coming out of COVID we had disbanded the safety committee and uh statistics have shown not just for public entities like yourself but manufacturing contractors there was a shift off of safety coming out of CO because people couldn't meet effectively and there was a a large rise in claims that came out of it for the industry. Now, uh, safety has been a much bigger topic for everybody, you guys included, and Doy and Morgan have done a great job getting the supervisors bought into coming to every meeting. Jim, you were there for meeting, kind of witnessed how that works. And getting those supervisors to understand how it works and why their role and claims is so important of getting people back to work or understanding the process um, has just been really big and we've built on a couple good years here in a row. You can see back in 20 and uh to 2122 we had some larger claims that negatively impacted us and it made our experience mod go through the roof uh up to a 1.28 in 2024. And the way that calculation works and why there's three grade out um rows there is it the experience amount calculation goes back three years not including your current policy year and that's what they calculated off of. So those uh shaded boxes are what the current86 experience mod is calculated off of. It goes into that. You can see the the uh prior years it was a much higher rate or much higher calculation. And you can see that the prior years the loss ratio and claims are much higher. That's kind of

the general calculus of how that works. Pretty straightforward. So we've got more important to the [clears throat] amount of claims or the total incurred. total incurred is going to be is going to be the most important. Uh frequency a claims underwriters generally believe that frequency can lead to severity. If you've got five close calls, the likelihood of that sixth one being a larger one is kind of how statistics play out. So if you can have low frequency and low severity, that's the best of both worlds and where we're finding oursel currently. How does report only situations?

Yeah, so those are included in the claims as well. And one other thing that Dy's team has done such a good job on is they've gotten information that's accurate. It's got supervisors input on it. What actually happened? So we have documentation that if 6 months from now that claim goes sideways for whatever reason, we at least have clean documentation of what happened and why and what were our next steps um as an incident report. It's really hard in a a work comp claim that could come back and pop up a year later if you don't have good information what happened and why and be able to effectively handle it. So, Doy's team has really done a nice job making sure that's there. And then what uh Andrew's also alluding to is we have even if there's a a small incident where it's a scrape or they're not really seeing medical attention, we're still going through the whole process of reporting a claim to IPE so that we have the documentation and DO's team still doing an incident report so that once again if it blows up uh later and becomes a thing or just we're looking for trends along the way, they're getting buy in from the supervisors to make sure that the documentation's there. So I want to say that we had seven report only claims in 20 in this uh 2025 year. So really we only had roughly seven or eight actual work comp claims that receive medical attention.

The reason I ask is last year we had 29 claims but only a little under 20,000. This year we had 14 with 30 thou a little under 30,000. So I didn't know what number they cared more about. So

yeah. No, good question. They they care about both in theory, but they care more about the the incurred loss. Those big losses make a difference. So, um, and then you can see I put some historical data down there below going back all the way at 21 just so you can see we kind of wrote the elevator up in that experience mod. So, that 1.28, 28. The easiest way to think about it is if our work comp premium is supposed to be 200,000 for s 100,000 for sake around numbers, it just became 128,000 because of that calculation. If it's 100,000, it's a 086, it just became 86,000. So, it can swing it either direction pretty fast. Okay. Uh the next page is uh our um mod snapshot. breaks down. You can actually see our largest losses we've had that factor into this and then what their impact is in the mod in that middle left. So you can see most of our claims that have been small, they don't even contribute to 0.1 on the experience mod. Some of those larger claims like that $40,000 loss uh contributed to.162. So it's a a much bigger um factor into the experience mod. The other thing we've stressed a lot with the supervisors is if it's a medicalonly claim, let's say it's a $20,000 medicalonly claim and there's no paid time off or indemnity that comes from it, which is an or comp word word for paid time off or a settlement, uh only 30% of that claim goes against your experience mod. So, you can have some claims, but if we get them to to treatment and get them back to work in a reasonable manner and they're ready to come back to work, we can effectively manage that. It's your larger claims where the people have paid time off that can, you know, lead to a higher uh premium and higher experience mod. Um, and the supervisors have really, we talk

about it every single safety meeting. I think we've kind of beat the dead horse at some level for a few years, but I think it's got into their brains of how this thing works. And like I said, we've got some pretty good buying from them. You see those green bars on the right. Uh so if we never had a claim in the county for the prior three years that go into this factor we could have a 0.58 experience mod that's as low as we could go. Our claims have contributed at 28 of that experience mod coming up at 086. It's kind of how the calculation works. Okay. basically can't get much better.

Well, we've we could go 28 points better, which is still significant, but we know that with a county this size and as many employees there are, and especially with the police, you're going to have claims. It's just effectively managing the claims in a proper way that helps to drive it down. And the Audi's team's done a great job. We've got really good support within insurance trustees that helps. Susan Cchic um is the account manager and does a great job internally. I know many of you have spoken with her a lot. And then IP is a wonderful carrier partner. I mean, they want to reduce claims as well, but they also want to do it in effective ways. And they have claims managers or claims liaison for any of these larger claims where they're going to work with that uh doctor, that injured worker and try to come to the best resolution possible for that claim and they jump in right from the jump. Any questions on that front? Not a ton to report because there hasn't been a ton of claims. So, that's that's positive. Um, work comp is not an overly complicated uh premium. It's it's honestly the easiest coverage line to to kind of come up with premium. You have payroll in various class codes. And then you have uh that your higher likelihood of having injuries. Those class codes have higher rates. So a clerical class code might be really cheap, but the police officers are more expensive because they're more likely to have claims. So their payroll um is at a different rate than others. We I'm not sure what that I think we were up about or 6% in total payroll and it's not always uniform on where it's slotted from police to whoever, but our payrolls are up. Um and you'll see that our our premium is going to go down actually year-over-year, which is a huge win for the county. The attorney line item for payroll says 1.799 million. Uh I don't think I've grossed that this year yet.

Must be a big bonus at the end. Yeah. So does that cover other things other than attorney? Yeah. These these all like prosecutors and public prosecuting attorneys public defense. Well, it's not county attorney at one point. Yeah. Well, that's not Andrew. I was like, you know, all the attorneys that work for us. All right. For what's the retirement living center? Sunny M. That's Sunny Meadows. Yeah. So, any questions on any of that front? Once again, pretty straightforward stuff. Just want to make sure everyone's on the same page of how it's kind of the calculation works and who we're working with. Um, so we'll go back to the Yeah, go ahead.

We have 100,000 out there as a gueststimate. If we don't need that for next year, does that come off and we get the reimbursement back on that? Yeah, work comp is always a projection. So, we're going to project these numbers and at the end of the year they're going to do an audit which they do every year and at the end of the year that you're going to get credit if that doesn't come to fruition.

This used to be they used to estimate this like big and then always get a refund. And um probably over the last five or six years that I've been doing it, I've estimated it relatively close to what I think it's going to be. And then sometimes like the last [clears throat] audit came back and and I I just had to pay. But that way we're not overpaying a ton and then waiting for the audit. I mean it's not off a lot. we get it close.

Yeah, it's normally within like three to four percent. Susan does a great job on that front and um surprises. I mean, it's nice to get a chunk of money back at the end of the year at some level, but being accurate like she is just helps so there's no surprises either way at at audit time. It's a good idea. That way we have that money we can get investment off of it that being sitting here guys. Yeah, agree with that.

Yeah. anything on that front as far as the audit process, Susan, that I know it's a pretty straightforward process that we could be doing to help you in addition to what we're doing now. Okay. Well, if something comes up or you know, it's sometimes it's a different auditor each year. So, if they ask questions that are different than before or it feels like you're not getting the answers, don't hesitate to loop us in. We'll definitely jump in.

Um, so we've we've got this with IP like we've talked about. uh they are the industry standard as far as uh insuring counties, cities, any municipality in Indiana. I was speaking with their one of their higherups last week and they write about 70% of counties in the state of Indiana. So if you think about that, there's quite a few counties that probably don't have a good loss ratio. And his message was essentially if there's a county that we want to insure, right, that doesn't have a lot of bad claim situations or or poor reporting, you know, they essentially insure it and they they are the best at that uh coverage line in the state of Indiana. We've looked at a handful of carriers in the past uh couple Argent and Bitco,000 higher in premium than what iPad has. So, the the reason for me that I think that's so valuable is we actually had some bad years with IPE and we didn't see a huge we weren't penalized in a negative way because of it. They want to be a long-term partner and they understand that some years are going to be better than others, but we have some stability with them to where if you switch carriers, you're not going to pay $100,000 more to switch carriers, right? But even if you did find one that was as competitive, you're potentially going to ride that volatility wave if they have a first bad year. So, we're in a really good spot with them. A couple things to note there. Uh you can see, you know, we're paying well over 200,000 in 2425 and our payroll was 15,900,000. So as our exposures have gone up, which is how they rate the work comp, our um premium has gone down significantly and that's largely because of the relationship with IPAP and then also that experience mod is really working in our favor. Um, we've got, let's see,

our current year, like we said, it's 29,000 in losses. If you go back to the it says Decal County loss trends. So, as we project forward, um, you know, next year, this 25 26 year will come onto that three-year calculation, and that 22 23 year is going to fall off. That's how it works. Just a rolling cycle. So, we're going to have a year that falls off that's actually worse than our current our year that's coming on. So, even though our experience mod's greatly improved, it's even going to get better next year. Not a ton because we've already kind of bottomed out at some level, but it's going to improve next year as well. We've got some positive momentum going forward. Any questions on any of that? I know I kind of covered a lot of calculus, if you will, but this one is more um you know data driven than some other lines. It's just kind of how it works. Just out of curiosity, 21 20 21 22 those huge claims. Were those traffic accidents or

No, they they both came from uh police. One of them was a training exercise where an individual I believe was throwing a ball to a a dog, police dog, and tore his rotator cuff and it turned into the um multiple surgeries I believe. And then also we had a a disability payout because he was not back to full strength even after the surgeries. So some some element of bad luck there, but you know, that's why there's workers comp insurance as well. both years. I don't believe

did cross I know he did cross years quite a few years actually. Um trying to think what was there was a hand in a door. Most of them are all shared. Yeah. And I don't think so that the large the 2021 was the large rotator cuff claim.

Yeah. in 2122. I don't believe it was a singular claim. I think we just had six or seven claims that were 20 to $30,000 just add up. You know, when I see the um incident reports that come through and then I see the how IP would categorize or label the claims, there's just a lot of times where it's it says something to the extent of inmate was not answering or not following what they were supposed to do, became aggressive, and the police have to step in. and then we have a claim because of it. You know, just kind of nature of the beast at some level.

In certain extreme circumstances, it's like a wrestling feel and you know, you might be falling against a picnic table or hitting the wall or something.

Yeah. Right. So, the um you know, the sheriff's department's done a great job with the claims. They've they've taken it very seriously and take the incident reports very seriously. you know, at the end of the day, an huge exposure could be just if a car accident happens and they're driving for the county, could be a large claim that comes from that. Those are things you can't stop at some level. Um, they can just happen. We've just been fortunate the last handful of years that we haven't had a large auto claim or something that's negatively impacted us. You believe part of that communication and her group getting information information out.

Yeah, I do. I mean, so Doy does a really nice job monthly of sending out safety newsletters and you know, I think if you just do that once or twice or intermittently, people kind of just it slips through the cracks and they don't really see them and they can maybe roll their eyes at that some level. I think her consistent messaging for three to four years now is paying dividends and people actually see that and read it. Um, and you know, like a large claim could happen tomorrow. It's out of our control. But I just don't think there's a coincidence that we started doing that 3 to four years ago really effectively and the claims have taken a huge step in the right direction for improvement.

Great to see. Yeah. Yeah, we we for a few years there we were paying for you know the hardest part for this and where I um really once again give her kudos is sometimes it's hard when you're paying for years past and you're investing in safety and costs still go up because you're paying for the years past. That can be discouraging at some level. Um, but now we finally got to the point where costs are dropping with it and now it feels, you know, like you can just really point to something that's been helpful for the county.

So, is county are obviously we've gotten much much better, but are we consistent with other counties?

So, great question. The way the calculations made is a 1.0. You are uh viewed in this calculation with other peers. So other counties, municipalities, and then they take whatever payroll that you pay in and your claims payout and they have a calculation that comes up with that experience mod. They do it so that a 1.0 experience mod is technically average. So for those three or four years, we were below average because of some of our large claims um in terms of other counties and our peers, right? But now we're outpacing them in that benchmark and we're so we're keeping people safe. we have the proper documentation and then at the end they were paying less premium because of it.

Yep. Okay. Um so just for people listening so in 24 to 25 the IPE amount was 204,255 for the 2025 to 2026 it was 193103 and the um renewal for 26 and 27 um is 1701 194. They're right here. It's on that last page at the top. Thank you.

Yeah. So, the thing to note there is as payrolls and exposures have gone up, costs have gone down significantly. So, if you have that delta, you know, it's over 30% I believe the difference there in the last three years and savings provided as we've gotten payroll going up.

Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, well, next year we've already the hard work's done for next year at some level because those loss ratios are are going to be finalized here in a few weeks. So, we'll have another positive renewal next year. You know, it's going to be 26 that's going to determine two years from now. We're just always having that, you know, as our mindset of trying to be safe and do the best we can. If as long as we're doing our job correctly, do her job and IPE um does their job as a partner, you know, I'm not saying we can't hold these rates where they are, but we won't have any surprises at the same time. We'll be able to know ahead of time what's coming and plan forward accordingly. I don't I'm happy with what they're doing there and I like the fact that they report the claims initially u or or report like only report only or whatever where someone doesn't have the further issues because you you don't know from this you know from an employee standpoint if something does get to be worse with a let's say throwing the ball you may think well it's a little sore and then it gets worse and worse and by reporting it, it's actually good for the county employees, too. So, this is good for the county bottom line, but also good for individual employees, the way they're being treated here. I like that.

And in the way that work comp works, you know, it's the state controls, there's a work comp board for the state of Indiana, and overwhelmingly the burden of proof is on the employer to have good documentation if an employee says something went sideways or they got injured and the statute of limitations is two years for that. So having good docu, you know, two years is a long time, right? And people things get gray or or foggy on on remembering that. So being able to pull a file if something pops up 18 months from now is really helpful um for you guys and for us to help, you know, effectively handle that claim.

Thank you, sir. Okay. No, thank you. We just need a motion to approve the renewal. Thank you. Thank you. Discussion. Anyone in the audience? None. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. Motion carried. Okay. Thank you. Merry Christmas to you guys. Thank you, sir. as well. Appreciate your time.

Andrew, do go ahead.

Love you. Appreciate you. Yeah, there's a lot of Yep. Yep. If you're ready. America.

Pleasure as always. Absolutely. is your I'm sorry. Is your light on on that?

Okay. Sorry. That's all right. Should I start over? No, that's all right.

Yes. Start over. Okay. Um, my name is Erica Hedge. the animal control officer for Dical County and I have approximately eight years prior experience as an animal control officer before coming to this county. I'm also a registered veterary technician and I'd like to talk to you guys today about a call that I had last week uh with a large colony of cats and um I made contact with the residents and talk to them about the benefits of spaying and neutering so that the cats would quit reproducing. uh they agreed to participate in the process and so the next day I went back with another rescue to help them capture the cats uh for spayed neuter and during the process one of the residents was helping us catch the cats and there was a door open into the property we were able to see the inside of the house uh was filled with trash and a significant amount of fecal matter there were six dogs inside the residence Ultimately, we ended up uh obtaining a search warrant to go inside and remove the dogs for their safety. Ultimately, um in the pictures, you'll see that the uh dogs um well, you won't see it in the pictures, but the dogs were zip tied in those crates. And so there was many, probably months worth of feal matter that the dogs were trapped in. They did not have food or water. There were mice visibly running around the property. I had to wear a respirator to enter the property safely. There's also a bedroom that a dog was confined in where there there's about 4 foot high of jugs of what appeared to be urine. Um so we removed those animals. We also removed 48 cats, two pigs, and two goats. Those all went to one rescue.

Another rescue um from Ohio came and took six roosters, five hens, 20 ducks, one guinea, two turkeys, and another pig. I've got to write this down. You're going Okay. How many roosters were there again? There were six roosters. Six roosters and five hens. Five hens. 20 ducks, one guinea, two turkeys, and a pig. Oh. Uh, there was two pigs. So, there's three pigs. The rescue, the Ohio rescue, there were three pigs total. Three pigs total.

The local rescue took six dogs, 48 cats, two pigs, and two goats. Are you familiar with Max Cavies out of Allen County? They're a guinea pig rescue. Yes. I just wanted to make sure you're aware of them. Yep.

Okay. So, I'm coming here today uh because uh I've been utilizing multiple rescue agencies in Dic County and beyond. Um two of the dogs from this case went to Humane Fort Wayne. The Cal Humane is full largely in part because of other cases that I've removed recently. Um K9 Haven Rescue Inc. has been helping me. They also are full. The only rescue that had space was Shadowoba Horse Rescue. So they took all 48 cats and six dogs, two pigs, and two goats. And so it is an abnormally large amount of animals for them to impound. So I'd like to request um some funding for them to give them some assistance in caring for these animals.

How much funding are they asking for? Um, I was thinking I didn't I wasn't really sure what that it's $50 a cat to do the spayneuter surgery, a rabies vaccine, a microchip, and it's approximately $100 per dog to do a spayneuter surgery. The goats are both female. They don't need altered. Not sure about the pigs. Um, so I was thinking $50 a cat and $100. That's okay. But two dogs went to And also, I'm sorry, one of the dogs had to be euthanized. The one

um pound dog in the picture, he was in too poor of a state. 48 cats for $50 a piece, which is 24,400. And then how many dogs at 100 a piece? There are three dogs. three dogs to be.

Yep. Two were transferred to Humane Fort Wayne and they're um incurring that cost and they're okay with that. And the rescue that took the other livestock type animals to Ohio, they're okay with incurring that cost as well. So, it's just the three dogs that are still with Shadow Robot and the 48 cat. So, this is for Courtney's.

This is for uh it's called Shadow Roba Horse Rescue. They Oh, okay. They typically do horses and other livestock animals, but when resources are stretched, then they will help with dogs and cats. Um, I'm hesitating because yes, you do. However, depending when all this happens, I mean, we're at December 8th, so the invoice might not even get paid until next year, and we'll be in a different budget anyways. So, they would still have the same flexibility.

Yeah, we could make it work. We have to decide if we want to do it first. [clears throat] We don't have to do anything with the pigs, the goats, the rooster, the hens, the ducks, the guinea pigs, and the turkey. Okay. Just want to clarify everybody that's watching. Just that just going to deal with the dogs and cats here. This becomes a health issue for the residents of the home too, doesn't it?

Correct. And I believe that the local health department has asked for this case to be seen before you as well. I haven't seen anything come through yet unless they emailed me this morning. Okay. That could be. It certainly could be. It definitely there was a significant amount of mouse waste in a lot of my there's no running water. That is possible. Yes, it is a crim it's a criminal case.

The restitution within that case is possible. However, if whoever did it is for example on disability, they may be judgment. If we would pass, it could be that there could be court-ordered restitution theoretically through a criminal. So, a repayment could come. No guarantee, but it's possible. the residents of the home are, pardon me,

the residents at the property are um financially struggle and a lot of time in in prior cases they will sometimes set them up on a payment plan as low as $10 a month, $20 a month, which would be a slow recouping process for the rescue.

There's federal case law, I believe, from the US Supreme Court, uh that correct me if I'm wrong here, but that would say that someone is totally unable a they can't make that they can't make them pay for example $100 a month when they don't have that in their budget as part of their criminal case. It has to be a reasonable payment. There's a financial they could order at the beginning but let's say um who knows if there's jail time or not but let's say there there's some sort of jail time or not. Whenever the payments have to start, there's a requirement that the court has to go through and do a financially, you know, a financial analysis to see if they can pay it. So, analysis. Yeah, we might get an order, but not very much money.

And I'll also add too, we have a local veterinarian who is really passionate about helping us on these cases, and we're trying to schedule with her uh like bulk surgeries, and that may help with some of the cost. Yeah, is doing an excellent job of helping us out in the situation that really required to take that many cats and that many dogs to help him out with that. Yeah, I'm okay with the um allocating $2,700 for the um spade and neutering of the 48 cats and of the three dogs. Correct. Make sure my notes are correct here. That'll be my motion. Yep. I'm fine with it if you have it in your in your budget to be able to do. Um I think it's it's a good thing

since we have an issue. Yes. We can do and it sounds like it's very helpful that we had officer hedges here to be able to handle this and absolutely get it correctly handled. He's been a wonderful addition. Wonderful addition. Thank you. Uh we have a motion, a second. Anyone from the audience? Hearing no one. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carried. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you. And the animals appreciate. This is Michelle from Chata.

Oh, wow. Ellen, do you have any um The only thing I have is a is the Sunny Meadows update on the residents. We had one trans transition out last week, so we're down to two. Okay. And then we have the court hearing for the one on December 11th at 8:30. Is that correct, Andrew?

Uh that sounds correct. Yes. Uh I will go to my calendar here and confirm that I have let's see yes an 8:30 of course they they scheduled them all at so there's like a cattle call so to speak but 8:30 um uh time for all the eviction hearings. Yes. And I don't know if uh will you be able to will you be able to be there? Yes. And we only want one commissioner there because we don't want to have necessarily a majority of commissioners,

which would be like a public meeting or something. Dylan, that's great if you can be there. Yep. Plus, you're the Sunny Ms representative. So, you're not is like will Dale be able to be there or somebody uh whoever would be handling the is he did he help in delivering the notice? Would he have any knowledge of that stuff? The officer handled the first notice. I handled the second one. I can have the staff member that was with me at the time come out if you want. That would be good. Yeah, let's have that so that there's a little bit more background on that. Uh, small claims hearings do allow hearsay, but it would be nice if there was one other employee with you.

I can have her that was there with me on a time of me. Yep. Okay. Um, no, that handled it.

Uh, no. Yes. Sorry, that handles it. Sorry. He said, uh, no, that handles it. Yeah. Well, want to make sure. Yep. Isn't anything one in the audience? Hearing no one. I entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. We are adjourned. Thank you everyone.