County Council - Special Meeting

I'll call this special session to the Cal County Council in order Today's meeting is regarding a second and third vote on the wheel tax from the last meeting We can do this on one vote if we have consensus to do both second and third reading is one We have consensus We have consensus.

I'd like to make a motion that we actually reconsider the $25 and lower that down to $15.

I would take an amendment. We need to vote on the bill first. We need a what?

If we decide to amend it and make it lower, then I would need a second.

Do we need to vote on what was presented at the last meeting first and defeat it? We don't. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You want to propose that we take it from $25. Down to. Commercial vehicles and trucks down to. 15. 15. Okay. We have a motion on the floor for an amendment. Do we have a second? We have a second. Any further discussion amongst the council? Now we'll call for the. Yeah.

No, just the commercial. Just commercial, leaving the five at... Right. Yeah, everything down to 15. Yep.

What was your reasoning for that?

I don't feel like... In our last meeting, we talked about jail and realizing that we're going to have to raise taxes or look at some other kinds of avenue. So I just fear that we're starting to put too many taxes on our citizens. So if we can, let's put at least the bare minimum so that we are still eligible for those highway dollars.

My question is... and I'm not opposing it or agreeing with it either way, but we don't seem like we're taking some money off the table that we should be able, some of these roads need to be fixed. And I've talked to a lot of farmers saying they never objected to the, if you remember hearing the will tax, and I mean, but they want it fair. They don't want them paying it all, in which I know I've heard that some of us wants to take it out of our, general fund pay for the highway department, which I don't think fix these roads. That's just putting the property taxes back on. My issue is I'd like to see we come to a consensus where we are actually getting money besides the money that we're guaranteed because I'm not sure that we're going to get this money that we're guaranteed because the state pulling back on taxes is a pump now.

But from what I understand, we're going to get made whole on those dollars that we missed out, I think. I just want to use caution.

It might be made whole, but where that money is coming from at the state level, there may not be any community crossings money, which we also need.

Right.

Right. It's simply because they've got to take the money from the government.

Mm-hmm. Correct.

I do know that on the weekend, Indianapolis did So they're going to get the extra $50 million, which takes that much more out that we won't get. Right. Because if they didn't do that, then there would have been more for everybody else. Right.

And the reason we have said that we wanted to do the wheel tax is to get those dollars, which now may or may not be available. So again, our citizens, those are the people we need to think about. just that the amount that we're raising on them and then also thinking going ahead of of the jail and Those are my concerns.

That's all We have a motion and a second on the on the floor to lower the wheel tax the on the commercial vehicles and farm vehicles of $25 $15 but a call for the question all those in favor of that will do a roll call vote all those in favor of

Okay, so this is voting on the amendment to go from 25 down to 15 Okay, so Chris Amy yes Demski's not here Bob craft No Rick ring Dave yard No

The amendment is defeated we'll go back to the original Wheel tax proposal of 25 and 40 dollars on second and third reading we have consensus to do this in one vote Do we have Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Rick? Okay, Lynn, you want to say something?

Yes, I guess. Last week, we had been here during this last year.

A little confused and surprised. How much more is $17.50 a vehicle on the wheel tax is going to make. All you're looking at is raising more money. Why don't you raise the upside tax on more vehicles and spread it out? I would suggest that you needed to have actual numbers like you looked at last year. Go through it line by line on the list. You would ask last year for the commissioners to make a presentation on the highway on the funds that were needed yearly. Thank you Anybody else in the audience have any comments? Anybody like to respond to Lynn I Just say the additional information is that Auburn and Garrett are no longer be collecting the tax for the benefit of the county I think that was the information that influenced most people And I think there is some Accuracy and what he said though is we have no idea how many cars that is how many vehicles that is total dollar amounts We we don't we're coming in here voting with no numbers whatsoever We do know that the county will take a hit on

because of the revenue being directed to Auburn and Garrett. Garrett had the highest proposal. Auburn was in the medium. We talked last year at the council about this time when we put the wheel tax on. We put it on for minimum, very well knowing that it may have to increase. We put it on so there was a guaranteed pot of money that the county would get if we enacted the wheel tax, and we did get that. And Susan gave us the numbers of what we received. Now, he goes, There's over 400,000 I think we received from that that we would not have gotten if we would not have implemented the wheel tax. But being that Auburn and Garrett now, that those funds are not coming back into the county, we've got to pick up the revenue here. And this is pretty much middle ground here on it. Garrett is at 25 and 40 across the board on there. There's Auburn is at 750 and 25. And that is where we're looking at here with the county. Lynn?

Did part of the money that you're collecting this year from last year pass through the cities? Part of that will pass through.

Part of it will pass through.

This year? Yeah. So you're not losing 100% of Auburn and Garrett because you knew they were already going to get part of And then Auburn will take their cut and Garrett will get their cut out of that $1,700. That counts everybody, yeah. But again, I think we need to go back to

Council has for years not passed a wheel tax Because we didn't want to add the extra tax on to our citizens the only reason that it passed originally was because we needed those dollars from The highway miles from the community correct. Yes community. Sorry. Yes Not community correction So that's the reason that we passed it, and before that time, we were doing okay without it. So if you remember, the highway department has been here, and he has said that the level of our roads continues to increase. We're doing well, and he's doing a good job taking care of them. Are they perfect? No, but obviously neither is Indianapolis, and they're going to get a whole lot of extra money, and We'll see if they can fix their roads with it too.

So again, I I just It's unfortunate Did Garrett and Garrett and Auburn didn't get any of that 400,000 did this us that came back?

Well, they they were eligible for additional Community Crossings money If they passed wrong, they had to pass their own if they wanted to continue to be eligible. I Because that was the one thing that was holding at least Auburn up was if they could have been eligible for that with the county's excise tax, then they would have stayed with it. But since they were told by the state that if you don't have your own wheel and excise tax, you are not eligible. That's why they did it. And that's also why I'm sure Garrett did it. And as far as doing well... how much of the the commissioner's lighted fund has been going to the highway department over these last few years and that's going away because that fund is not going to be there anymore i think they give a million dollars in operations for probably the last three at least years three or four that money's that that's going away and if you use that logic then we should raise the excise and we'll tax so that we make a million dollars and I don't think any of us have the stomach to raise that.

No, we don't Okay, I wasn't finished so lighted also Pays for the highly bond payments, which is close to nine hundred thousand a year Well, there was 19 1.9 million dollars go out at will that all go away or just the million dollars At this point we don't know yet.

You don't know it's all depends what the state does this next year. I

Any further discussion amongst the council? Chair, we'll entertain a motion to pass this on second and third reading.

Are you doing roll call again? We'll do roll call.

Well, on the vote, but we don't have a motion.

I'll make that motion.

Do we have a motion by Rick Ring? Do we have a second?

And this is going back to the $750 for the cars and then the $25 for the rest of it.

Yes, we have a motion by Rick ring. Do we have a second?

I'll second it It's my comment that we are keeping it the same for the vast majority of the citizens 750 still 750.

It's the commercial vehicles that will be going up Okay any further discussion we'll call for the question on a roll call vote Yes Amy no

Yes.

Bill?

No.

Rick?

Yes.

And Dave?

Yes.

It's tied, so.

It's tied. No, it's only got three yes votes. 3-3. 3-3. You have to have four to pass anything.

All right. What can we do to make that vote change?

15 all the way across the board. Excise and commercials, everything. 15.

That's what we just defeated, though, in the...

I know it. I know it.

But you said ask me what I would convince me to do it.

I'd say yes for that.

You're including the excise and the wheels everything 15 Oh both Oh so raising the board for everything raising it for all the majority of this is I don't I don't know that I can go along with that, but I could go I suppose we can go with I Would lower the 25 on the wheel tax for the farmers farm machinery not for the Anything anything is listed as farm. I would go with I could go down to 15 at the rest of it I think needs to stay at 25.

I Would be willing to go down on the farmers, too Now we're talking about rating it across three would be three levels No

Know I don't want to go along with raising the excise tax, but I would go along with lowering the 25 on The wheel tax side for the farm implements the farm semis arm trailers.

I would go along with that Lens point we're just throwing out numbers With no data With no understanding because we're saying we need the extra dollars But we don't even know how much dollars that will create.

There is no there is no chance to increase the Total amount that we need by either the wheel tax or the excise tax We need to keep them in place so that we are eligible for community crossing That's true.

Correct And we've done that at $5 at $7.50.

$7.50 for a vehicle, a car, and $5 on the commercial side was ridiculous.

Well, I just offered an amendment.

It was ridiculous last year.

I just offered an amendment that would have doubled the $7.50 to $15 and left it at $5, and that got defeated. So I'm not really sure where we're headed here.

Well, you were only on the truck side, commercial side. You weren't on the cars side. Yeah, I see. Right.

And that's the majority of our. of our people is going to be the cars, personal vehicles. Correct. Motorcycles, passenger cars. Right. I am not opposed. The wheel tax side is going to generate more money, not enough that we understand that, but they are the ones that will do the most damage to the roads.

This is not why we passed this in the first place. All of the reasoning behind this has completely changed.

No, I think that the rates that were established were done just because everybody wanted to go to the minimum. Yes. And that was not, in my mind, a reasonable expectation.

Sure.

It should have been something that generated more money. Okay. I'm still opposed to $750 and $5 because the $5 side is not enough. It's not enough.

We want to tax more. So I appreciate what Lynn said because you and I and several other people in this room were elected as delegates to go down to the Republican Convention. And we passed our platform that said we were for lower taxes. But here we are.

Number one, I was not a delegate at that. I was part of the plan.

Okay. I apologize.

But I'm also being reasonable. Taxes are necessary to provide services. And you have to understand that we need police protection. We need good roads. We are responsible for the jail. You've got to be realistic. Yeah, you know the fact that you've got people out there right now that are proposing doing away with property tax is wrong Because no it is wrong. I didn't say anything it is wrong because these services are still necessary and I am a Senior citizen with a house that's paid for and I think that it's wrong that they would propose that I should not have to pay property tax and Still need good roads. I still need services I still need to make sure that there are educated children in our county every single one of those things is is requiring a Good source of income It doesn't need to be excessive and I don't think any one of these numbers that we're talking about on this are excessive They are not excessive And we do not have the best roads. You can look at any of the studies that have been done. Granted, it's by who answers the survey. But they say that our roads are average at best. Average at best. And there are so many people that would like to have their roads paved and everything else. We can't do any of that because we don't have the money.

And this isn't going to raise that?

Okay. Well, I want to comment, you know, and it's come to me, and I know I get Jim Miller upset when I mention this road is County Road 12. I'll tell you what, if you drove that every day, you'd at least have to have your car aligned once a year. I know passing a $10, $5, $7.50, whatever, it's not probably going to get that road paid. But the thing of it is, alignment, Tires and everything's cost more because that road's so damn rough. My daughter cannot drive my pickup down that road without getting a headache. That's how bad it is. And Jim keeps fighting me because he don't want it fixed because he thinks that looks like the commissioner's getting it done. But it's a road that needs something done to it. And I can go to two or three other roads that people have complained to me about. The only road I tell them not to work on is 35 because traffic drives too fast as this.

Well, there's, you know, lots of commissioners have had their roads paved, and they've all been accused of having it done.

So I don't blame Jim for not doing it. I'm not giving Jim, heck, that's a road. And I've talked to other people. People have told me this road, this road. But that's the two roads, 12 and 4, I drive on. And they are not the smoothest roads. I realize they're better than some roads. But, you know, the roads that we really drive on, that I like to drive on, and I don't have is, I got two miles of dirt road I drive on because I go farm to farm. They are a lot better. And I'll tell you what, our dirt roads are a heck of a lot better than what some of Stu Ben's are.

That I would agree with. Okay, early years where we're at. We have two options. One, we have nothing on the table. We can either make a motion and vote it up or vote it down. That's option one. Or option two is, see, we have nothing on the table. We can adjourn the meeting and we can dismiss. Those are two options.

I'll make a motion that we, on the wheel tax side, reduce the farm implements being semis and trailers to $15, leaving everything else at $25. And on the excise tax, we leave it $7.50.

Do we have a second? I'll second that. OK, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor, we'll do a roll call vote. Susan? Just a second.

OK. Chris? Amy? No.

Yes Bill yes Rick yes Yes Motion is carried We have no further business to come before the council do not leave until I have signatures Chris motion to adjourn motion to adjourn Second all those in favor of journey saying five is saying aye opposed we are adjourned It was an amendment to the original You can you can amend each time you vote I

and it still carries down.

Your rules provide you can pass on two separate meetings without suspending the rules. She meant because it changed.

This was going to be good. I'll be over there. OK. See you guys.

Thanks, Don.

Not yet. OK, Rick, so that was the semi-trailers and semi-tractors. Yeah, that's what I'm looking at.

I didn't think we were going to need a legal opinion today. So yeah.

These are the two I changed. That's it.

It was a short one today.

Well. This is where this one would come out. This does not include farm trailers. Farm trailers.

So I need to have separate.

Yeah, you're going to have to separate it.

Okay, Jody, that one needs to be trashed.

Okay.

Did you hear me? That's trash.

All right, so this one has to be separated.

This one would be separated.

So anything that says farm needs to be separated.

Anything that says farm needs to be separated. All right.

Yeah, I'll be on the team if we can do that. I think that the pizza place used to be closed Yeah

Or crickets.

Yeah, crickets.

Let's go grab a couple beers.

Right. It probably is.