City Commission - Regular Meeting

meeting session. We have I got a call from a resident four o'clock. So Chris turns it on and then I get okay from our city.

But does it it you still control these? Yeah. What happens? It depends on how long this meeting. We should be

We're talking about dinner. I know, but I'm saying with me. Do you think it's going to be really? Okay. Show time. Good evening everyone. We are calling this special meeting to order of May 20th, 2025, Daytona Beach Shores and uh the time is 4 o'clock. So Sher, can you take a role, please? Yes, just for the record, it's August 20th. What did I say? August 20th. Thank you. August 20th. Mayor Miller here. Vice Mayor Pletus here. Commissioner Clark here. Commissioner Comos here. Commissioner Dinsky here.

Thank you. And we do not have it on uh the agenda this evening, but Reverend Melissa France from the Drive-In Christian Church is here to lead us in our invocation. Please everyone, let's pause in prayer together to mark this moment with gratitude, reflection, and a shared purpose. We begin by giving thanks for the leadership of Curt Schwarzlander for his steady hand, his dedication, and the care that he's brought to our city. And may his next chapter be rich with opportunity, peace, and continued impact. We honor his tenure and we send him forth with our blessing. And now we ask together, what's next? In this season of transition, we ask that we would be guided by wisdom and grace. May discernment rise above division and hope above uncertainty. And may we listen deeply to one another and to our community and to the needs that call for our attention. As we consider the future of our city's leadership, may we seek not only competence, but character, not only vision, but accountability, and not only answers, but the courage to ask the right questions. Let this meeting be marked by clarity, humility, and care. And let our shared commitment to the good of this city remain our compass. Because even in times of change, we affirm what we know to be true. Life is better here and together we will continue to make it so. Amen.

Thank you so much. Please join me in the pledge of

allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Before I get started with new business, I I just want um you to know how proud I am of this commission that we have here. We had um two people that had plans to be out of town and those two people were so committed to knowing this is a very very important decision that we are making this evening. Probably the biggest decision of any of our tenure on this commission. So, Commissioner Densky, Commissioner Card, thank you so much for caring enough about this city that you realize how important it is. And I also say have to say to our attorney, um, we are so glad you are here. I know you have very, very capable attorneys in your firm, but we wanted someone that was familiar. And again, thank you for cancing your plan. So, just wanted to say that before we go on with this very important next step. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. So, um, do we start with the resignation letter? What do we start with, attorney? Yes. I think you should announce or or I guess Kurt should announce that, uh, when he is leaving. I think everyone here knows that he is leaving. Um, and he can kind of kick it off.

Okay. Thank you. So, um, our very bittersweet news. Um, I do have to tell you, I was very upset with our city manager until I heard the wonderful, wonderful reason he's meeting. I think I've told each and every one of you from working with you, that family comes first. And this is something that is very good for his family. Sad for us, but very good for his family. So, Kurt,

thank you, Mayor. Um, yes, a very was a very hard decision. Uh, but I believe I'm making the best decision for my family. Um, I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here and I I'm here through October 14th. So, I will continue to do my best in the best interest of all of our citizens here who are, I'm going to say, some of the best citizens uh in the state, if not the country. We have wonderful folks here who just love this city and care about it. It's been a pleasure to work here, but my last day will be October 14th and I will be heading on to different pastures.

Do you want to go over where you're going? Um, you know, so everyone knows it's No. Okay. It's just a decision that is right for his family and we respect that. Thank you very much. So um Becky next we you know so I see here right now we have thema all 58 pages of it that tells about recruiting process. I know you have handled this in many different cities. Please guide us on what next step you think we should take.

Okay. Um the very initial step would be to look at the possibility of appointing an acting city manager um to work with um Kurt and I I would assume that it would be someone in the you know in in the city family right now. um would work with Kurt in the interim up until he leaves to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks and that sort of thing. Um and then you need to figure out how you want to go about finding um a new city manager and there are all kinds of opportunities out there. I will tell you that um I'm the city attorney of Cocoa Beach and we are last night there was a meeting um where they made um a decision they they hired a search firm. They made a decision to basically um interview five people who were brought forward. But you could hire a search firm. You could hire the uh I believe they're the Range Rovers or something like that. Yes.

Um that's that's a possibility. Um you could do it yourselves.

Um and when I say that, that would be a staff driven thing. You could put the word out in the community to see um who in the community might be interested. There are endless possibilities of how you want to do it. Some of them cost a lot of money, some of them cost a medium amount of money, and some of them cost the city staff time. So, and I would not um downplay the time, the amount of time and effort it takes for staff to do it themselves because that's not something typically that your staff is trained for, that they've um you know, done in the past. But it is so important, particularly if you're going outside the area to get people to apply, you need to have all the information that's available with regard to their history, their work history, their personal history, their, you know, their social history. Um, that takes a lot of time to put that together. So, if you were going to I I work obviously very closely with staff here and y'all don't have extra staff people and you don't you're you're very

you know I' I've been amazed at how much individuals get done here. Thank you so much. We appreciate that. Well, I mean, but that's the truth. So, if this burden were put on them, it would probably be my recommendation that that not be done because I don't know how they could do that and juggle, you know, what they do for the city. Something would have to fall through the cracks.

And I appreciate you saying that. We want your expertise on this. So, I think what we should do first is take the first step first. So, um, and that is is the interim manager. So, um, I'd like to hear first of all a motion from someone someone on the dis someone that you would like to nominate to take that position then we will ask that p person if they're interested okay and do I hear a motion to I madame mayor and and our city attorney don't we need to officially accept Mr. Schwarzlander's resignation first. Now we have a vacancy. Then someone would author a motion to put an interim person to work with her during the the period. He'll be here till October 14th. And then the third thing we'll do is we'll make a suggestion of what we would like to do as a dasis. Um what manner we want to solicit a new city manager and recruit a new one.

Thank you. Okay. I agree with you. I agree with you. So, do I hear a motion to sadly accept the resignation of our city manager Curt Schwarzander effective October 14th, 2025? I will sadly move. I'll second. Okay. Any other discussion on that? Okay. Hearing none. So now, do you feel like we can go on to that next step? Let's vote, mayor. Let's vote. Vote. All right. He's got to make it official. You know, I want to put this off as long as I can.

And that sadly passed 50. So, thank you. You know, we're going to rub this in all night, Kurt. So, um, so now we will go on to the second part. And do I hear a motion? Now, Becky had talked to me about this before. So I want to make sure that you know that we have the option to to and and logistically I don't feel it would work work out but you know we have the option of putting um someone in place maybe that has put their uh resume in to be the interim manager. That's probably I guess I'm safe in saying that's not something that I would really suggest or look forward to. But I want you to know that you have the option of doing that. But with that in mind, do I hear a motion for a name to go forward to be our interim manager, city manager, until the time that we locate a permanent city manager?

Madame Mayor. Yes.

So, I've done a little bit of homework and I'm going to tell you I'm going to nominate um Director Mike Fowl as our interim manager and I'm going to tell you some of the reasons. Um one is I had a conversation with Mike. I've spoken to some other people and I think continuity is the key both for morale to maintain the integrity, the transparency and the cooperation we have with staff and us. So I think Mike would be perfect. Um he does have degrees in public administration so he actually has the skill set and of course he has the rapport and the respect of everyone. So that's what I'd like to move. You know, historically, I think Chief uh Commissioner Diminsky did it when either Booker was sick or somebody was out.

So, it kind of it kind of dubtales into kind of a a historical thing. But, I think we'll be in good hands. And I think Mike would be an excellent liaison when we start recruiting a new one because he'll already have information from Kurt. he will already be in that position and he could then pass it to the next person who will take the permanent position. So with all those reasons, I'd like to move for uh Director Mike Fowler to be our interim city manager uh to work along with Kurt until he um ultimately leaves on October 14th. Uh do I second? I'll second. Thank you. All right. What discussion do we have on it?

Uh I I have one one thing. Maybe we should ask Mike if he'll do it. That's what I was after the discussion. I was gonna say you'll do it.

Chief Chief Fowler, that is something that we would be honored if you would accept for the reasons that our vice mayor said. Um I know that you are traditionally the person that our city manager entrusts to be in charge when he's gone. Know you're intimately involved with the workings of the city. So we would be honored if you would accept that. And may we have your answer? Thank you, Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor, uh, Commission. I appreciate your confidence and I will gladly accept. I've been with the city 33 years. We have an extremely strong staff, which makes this decision very easy for me, and I look forward in uh look forward to leading us through this transition and finding our next leader. Thank you. Thank you.

Any other discussion um that we wish to speak about? I would just make a suggestion that uh a director Fowler enter into an actual contract with the commission uh so that his current position is protected down the road. I I think if I would have to ask the director um but I think we could bring that back at the next the September 8th I believe is our next meeting. for the commission to adopt. Becky, would you agree? Yes. And I'd be happy to draft that.

Becky, may I ask a question on that? I I think there's a little bit of a um disparity in in the um wages of our even though he makes a wonderful wage of our director of public safety and our city manager. Would that be considered in the six weeks, six months, whatever it took, is that something that would be included in the contract? Yes.

Question, Madam Mayor. Yes. Um, Director Fowler, would would you be interested in being a candidate to fill the full-time city manager position? Not at this time. I still have uh a real passion for public safety department and I have unfinished work there. Thank you for asking. Thank you. Good question. My verby asked, but um so that would be included in the contract. Do we know what that amount is ahead of time? Do we have to check with our director of finance? Um and I'm sorry,

Lori. Do you have the answer what the difference would be right now or was that something you need to look into? I have to actually look into the exact amount and I can get back to you with that. Thank you. Uh, one other question, Lori, before you pass that amount. So, I've had a a talk with you about where the um, you know, our city manager has been very lean on taking vacation, so I know there'll be a payout and that will go in October into this year's. What about the difference in the pay in the pay um that that um the chief Fowler would realize? Does that have to be an amendment or how would can you tell me how that would be figured please?

For this year we do have we can use actually contingency. Okay. Great. Okay. And will you have that answer for us on September 8th? Yes, ma'am. Okay.

Okay. What other discussion on that? one issue which um I did write a legal opinion and I don't know if it was passed on to Chief Fowler with regard to what he will need to do with um you know resigning his position as temporarily resigning his position as both police chief and fire chief with the state. Um,

uh, Attorney Boas, I did not want to be presumptuous and make any inquiries prior to today's meeting, but I will be reaching out to FDLE, the state fire marshal um, and FRS to make sure that everything that we do going forward is legal and um, that's something that I would think you and I can discuss so that it's in the contract. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I I'll go ahead and send you my opinion, but I will tell you that the opinion suggests that you confirm particularly with regard to the pension. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else we're missing that you can think of? Please feel free. I've already written the agreement in my head.

Okay. So, so I will be getting it to him and we'll work it out. Anything else we're missing before we go on? Um, it depends if you want to discuss the path forward. Now, now we have an interim um a path forward to finding a permanent. Yes. And I would like to talk about that. Commissioner Ginsky, I think you have Well, only we don't have an interim. We have a motion and a second. We It needs to be vote on it. Then we have an intro. Okay. Don't let him get away that quick. That's Can we vote on that? I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, no. I want you to. I mean, I just want to make sure that we're not missing anything in this process. It's a first for all of us. And um this one I'm happy to say passed 5-0. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Now,

so I want this to almost be a workshop that we're, you know, this is a new for all of us. I have been here seven years. You've been around the city for how long, Commissioner? Um, this is a first for us. So, I want to make sure that we get everything out in the open. We got our questions answered. The first thing that I want to talk about, and this is just when Becky had said there's several different ways to do this. You know, I happen to know that Pon Inlet went through this church search maybe two years ago and they I want to play say played somewhere between 20 and $30,000 for you know for this search. I want the very best candidate but I want to give you some feedback that I received and Kurt received it too when we're in Orlando last week. So, we were with the um city manager from the city of Dand that has been around a very very long time, knows his way around. Um I believe he was on um one of the boards for them and said, "Mayor, you have a wonderful, wonderful city. People will be flocking to go to Daytona Beach Shores. You have wonderful residents. Thank you. You have no debt. You have a commission. even though we don't always vote the same way, we get along, we respect each other. Um, his suggestion was to advertise it locally or however we advertise it, and then to when we get the resumeumés, do not put it on our staff. to your point, get someone that will do almost an alocart and go through these resumeés, do whatever they need to do in the background and the social media and whatever and then when it gets down to whatever number we decide on, they move those forward to us and then we go from there. So that's just something that's instead of going out and recruiting from Michigan and Ohio, I'm thinking there's

probably enough talent in the state of Florida that we would be able to especially with our city's reputation. So um Commissioner Dinsky, any thoughts on that or anything that you'd like to do differently?

The actually that that's probably a really good idea. The only thing that I would say different and I I I've been involved in a lot of searches for chiefs is that I would like to see a professional advertisement with minimum qualifications. Absolutely. That we agree on as as a commission that the next CM has to have minimum qualifications. What whatever those are. Um, I know from experience that you we are going to get many uh people that all of a sudden are familiar with government and can come in and run the city with no problem and have really no experience whatsoever. So, I would like to set up some minimum qualifications. I think your idea has a lot of merit. Um, I too am not enthusiastic about hiring a search firm. Uh, the $30,000 is minuscule. It would cost us probably minimum of 50. I just have a friend who just went through this process and and I know that it was a $50,000 uh hit and they they got some quality candidates, but it all depends on who's doing the hiring, which we are a very good city to work in. Uh there's a lot of attributes here. We we have always push um we've always risen above our our size. you know, we punch way over our weight and uh I think we'll get some good candidates and I'm sure in Florida there's a lot of good candidates, but I would like to see the minimum qualifications uh along with professionally written advertisement and I I believe there are uh there are companies that that will do that or individuals that can do that if we give them the input and then we can advertise wherever wherever we feel we want to.

Okay, good. Good idea. I mean, you know, we got lucky with Kurt. We got lucky uh uh but when we went through this and I don't mean to take up all the time, but No, no, this is what No, this is an important decision. You I want

We actually Sherry and I are the only ones. Well, Mike was here then, but um many years ago, we went through two searches where we hired Mike Booker and then he left and I went through the second search looking for another CM. That's when I was the acting CM. And um it is a a very timeconsuming process but I would like to see us do it. I think we we are smart enough and and good enough to understand what we'd be looking for and however we proceed. Uh but I definitely believe we need minimum qualifications what what and we we can all contribute to that I'm sure

and I'm sure Becky again we're going to rely on you. I'm sure there is from all the other city managers that you know you hired in different places. There's probably a format that we can use and then add to it specifically for Dayton Jon Beaches. What's working? Oh yeah, I can I can come up with that information because of the different cities that um my firm represents there. There are three that come immediately to mind that have just hired or in the process of hiring. So I would like those like you said the minimum and then we want to add what is specific to Daytona to be chores. Does that work for you commissioner? Absolutely. Great. Great. Commissioner Card, what's your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I I like the way uh Commissioner Dinsky is saying it his outlook. I I trust his outlook on this and I think I'm going to agree with him that we should go with do some advertisement within the state of Florida and uh set middle minimum qualifications and we'll find the right person. Okay, Commissioner Conamos.

Uh my preference would be to keep it as regional as possible. I understand we may have to um expand through the state of Florida just to get a certain number of candidates, but you know because of um the unique issues that we face uh during certain times of the year, it would be nice to have somebody say for instance somewhere from Valuchia County already knows the players. Um I understand that may not be a possibility. Um but my preference would be very regional um Valuchia County but obviously we can't do that you know seminal flaggler but uh statewide but I would prefer not to do a nationwide search. Okay, great. And I agree with you only because um you know again with me you know going around the state with my role in the Florida League of Mayors I've you know I hear the stories about city managers and some of them are quite good but we are unique in Florida with sunshine. I want to make sure that some we have a city manager that completely understands sunshine. So to your point I would prefer somebody you know from them. So thank you for that input. One other thing before we move on to our vice mayor. I really feel like there's somebody that needs to head this up and more or less lead us in the search. And I know normally that's something I take the lead on. Um for for two reasons. Um I would like to ask our vice mayor to take the lead on that. When you think about this, I'm probably only going to be here less than a year when this new person comes on. So, it's very very important for me that we hire someone, you know, that everyone on the council commission gets, you know, gets approval on. And I think with um our vice mayor and all the hiring that he has done for all of his associates, I think that would be perfect. One other thing on top of Florida, what you're saying, and this dates back to my time at AT&T, it's very important in this process. I want to

make sure that one of the interviews when we narrow it down to 53, whatever we narrow it down to that um that this new city manager's direct report has a say so in this interviewing process. So once it's narrowed down, it then goes to the five directors and I would like them to do a scoring like we would too, just to know this is the person that you're going to be reporting to. You absolutely have a say so in that. So, Vice Mayor, would that be something that you would be able to um lead up on this? Absolutely. Okay. Um

it's funny. I've already started going through this uh product. It's called the International City Management Association, and I've already got ideas. A lot of it I'm going to rely on all of us. I'm going to rely on all of the directors, everyone's input. So that way we select the best candidate that God willing will take us at the same level of performance we give to the citizens and takes us uh into the future. You know, transparency, integrity, honesty, no backstabbing, no toxicity. Uh yes, the skill set's important, but even more so the personality is. So yeah, I'll I've already spoke to my office manager and I was able to get out of her office without getting injured. So she knows that I will spend time and I'll work closely with our city attorney too. So we'll have some guidelines, some parameters and we'll get through this process. Um, I agree with with Chris and and with Chief uh with um Commissioner Dinsky that we can maybe start regional and then work our way out in in the effort that or at least maybe top three or top five that we really didn't like. The ICMA may have a contact person that I'd reach out to. Also, the National League of Cities also has uh uh

and you can advertise free on there and we So, so not National League, Florida League, just Florida and maybe just regionally like Chris said. But anyway, um everyone can put their input, put their two cents, and then with all of our combined efforts and parameters, we'll be able to put together an outline and then we'll go through the process. But I want all the directors involved and so that way when we do select someone hopefully we've done the best um the best effort. But yeah, I I'll take the leadership and you want to put together a committee or all of us whatever you want me to do and I'll be more than happy to report back um during our commission meetings.

Thank you. Vice Mayor Susan, may I ask you? I know at one time I had talked to you and Kurt about getting on that job website. Are we signed up with it now? Great. Perfect. Okay. So, that's the website that we can advertise for um no charge on it and we can Can you set the parameters um who it goes out to or does it have to go out to statewide on I'll double check on that. Okay. Please Yeah, please let us know on that. Uh Becky, what other um what other sources would we use to put this out and keep it into, as Chris uh says, a more of a regional seminal boulevard, you know, type thing. I would definitely um have the PIO send out information.

You don't have one of those. Don't have one of those. I guess that would land on curb, but have um uh press releases go out. Susan, is that something you could help us with as our HR manager? Yeah. Okay. Sure. And um you know I think that it's definitely newsworthy and we probably if if we hit all the different media it would probably get the word out locally without you know going viral.

So going back to commissioner um Ninsk's so I think the first step you know when we decide how we're going to advertise is first of all what is our advertisement going to look like? So, that's where you're going to get of us a form and then um I I want everyone to know we're probably going to have to have some workshops. You know, we can't wait till September 8th and then the 23rd. So, be prepared for that. So, Becky, if you get us that form, okay,

then we decide what we want to add to that. And I think Commissioner Dinsky, there's something else you want to add. I think we if we're going to limit this to regional, I I think that might be an issue with people. Um statewide I I think is a great idea. The reason I'm saying this is if if someone lives in Seol County or someone lives in Orange County or wherever we advertise, uh we're only going to be hitting a certain demographic uh person and they probably have homes there. What if we require them to live 30 miles from city limits or whatever? I was thinking more of a statewide thing. These city managers move around a lot and quality people do move around. Uh I think Kurt Schwarzer is a pretty good example. He's moving around and uh I have no objection to wherever we we look for somebody, but I I would like to have the biggest reach we can. All it's going to take is is an interview. And if we don't want to go further with them, that's our business.

A Zoom interview for that matter. And um Commissioner Economist, I agree with you, but then the more I'm thinking about it, I don't want to if there is a quality candidate in Crest View, Florida that is, you know, that would be willing to come here. I don't want to limit and not know about that person. So, would you be all right, you know, and this is again a workshop type thing that we're going to talk about and throw out ideas. Would you all right if we did do the statewide? No, no, that's fine because again, we may not get that many candidates from, you know, regional search. So, but that that would be fun. So, I think I think you know I think we're making progress here. 70 at least.

We're making progress that you know we we've decided that we're we're going to get that form. We're going to add on to it. We're going to put it to a statewide search. Um Susan will help us with that. You will help with that as well. What is the next step? Or do we just sit back and wait for those resumes to flow in? possibly. I I will tell you that um just as an example, um uh Cocoa Beach last night, they got 69 and they were nationwide. Um most of them, the vast majority of them were out of state. There weren't that many.

I think I could count them on one hand, but I wouldn't swear to it, who were local. And and Cocoa Beach is a really attractive city. Well, as Daytona Beach, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. It has there's there's a lot of panache with regard to Cocoa Beach. It's it's kind of the the name that Bvard County puts out there. All you have to do is go up and down the the um the interstate and see all the signs that have Cocoa Beach. You know, it's not that big of a city, but it's got a lot of publicity. And may I ask where they did hire one Trump? Do you happen to know where where they came from? Did you say they did make an offer and hired someone?

No. No, they have not. Um they they um whittleled it down to five people and I believe there was one in state and four out. Um

so so going back again, you know, we have the form that we're going to do. I'm still a little bit confused. What would be the best way then for us to um I I guess we can wait until we got these resumes, but how do we go about looking to see if it's the Range Rover or if it's the ICMA that we're going to ask for alakart, you know, narring down for us? When when does that come in? And honestly, I don't know who does that. I mean, maybe the Range Rovers do. I I I believe do you remember city manager from our conversation last week with Michael?

So I believe Ken Parker, former Port Orange city manager is the local representative for ICMA and he does serve as a range writer I believe is what they call rider. Okay.

And I mean I could reach out to him and ask but I don't know exactly what services they do and what costs are. There are obviously these firms that do that that would probably also be willing for a price to do that um review of resumeumés and cull it down to a certain number based on commission set criteria. Um, I was going to agree with the attorney and say if that's a lot to ask of staff if you ask them to

resume our intent. Um, I also wanted to add though the Florida League of Cities, the job posting will just go on the website. So, that will be open to anybody that goes to their website, whether they're here or in Europe or wherever. Um, they will be able to view that. So, we would probably want to in that or we you will probably want to choose language that says like local preference or preference for a local or regional

applicant. Yeah. I mean, however you want to phrase that, but um I believe the mayor was correct in saying that sunshine is a big deal. It's different than a lot of or most states and and I will tell you that even if they do whittle it down um as far as you know saying these from their standpoint these are the top seven or top nine or whatever um you have to make those decisions yourself. You can get recommendations absolutely

because every step of it has to be in the sunshine. Um, and I have seen other cities and I've always questioned it because there's case law on it that they just take the recommendations of the experts who they've hired and they've, you know, limited their discussions, limited, you know, what they have looked at to those people. You cannot do that in Florida. So, you will at least have to get all of them. And I would encourage all of you to at least, you know, review the resumeumés of 60s something people.

Okay. So, you're saying, so we can't just arbitrarily say, okay, our expert said here's the top 10. No, you cannot get in trouble. You know, and you know, I do, you know, coming from, you know, HR background. That makes perfect sense to me that we need to do that. It's a sunshine law violation actually.

Can I can I ask a question? If if we set out minimum qualifications and we asked our staff to go through the applicants resumes and sort out the minimum qualifications required, put those if they don't have the minimum qualifications to put them aside and then to give all of us the rest of the the ones who do meet the minimum qualifications, not saying that they're best choices, just the minimum qualifications. And we each had 20 or 30 resumes to go over

and and that would be fine, but staff would need to do that in the sunshine, which would mean that there would have to be a a posting of their meeting where they sat down in a room and they went through the stuff. It has to be done in the sunshine anytime you call people out. Okay, so let let's step back. So, Commissioner Dinsky said our staff doing that. So, if we hire the range, what was it? Riders. Riders. Riders to do it. Does that have to be in in Sunshine? No. Because theirs would just be their recommendations. We still have We're still You'd be stuck with looking at all of them.

Okay. And I I g think we've all agreed that we want the staff to have minimal until it's time for them to do the interviews. So, that's what I'm saying. We have to decide how much we want whatever the firmness this is we choose to do. But so go over it with me one more time. So we get 60 applicants. So the range writers review all 60 and say these are the 10 best. But then we look at all the 60 and agree if those are the 10 best. And I would say you rank this number 18 but I think they should be number eight.

Right? And typically what the um you know depending on what company you use, what organization, what they will typically do is they they will find what in their mind are the top eight, top 10, whatever it might be. And then they will take an extensive deep dive into the backgrounds, okay, of those people. And with social media such that it is um that can take a lot of time and effort. Um, so there there's no easy.

One of the things I did want to add, and you brought it up right then, I think we have the commitment from our chief that he is here to help us for as long as we need. One of the things I do not want to do is rush into a a decision. This is so important. If it takes, whatever it takes, I'm not even going to put a time frame on it. I want to make sure we find that right person, you know, whatever it takes. But I think Becky, what you're saying more and more and more is we're going to need several workshops to go over this because we do need to discuss it in the sunshine.

And yes, um, one thing that I will mention is people come on the market at different times, right? Um because you know for whatever reason particularly when it's around election time that's when the turnover is the biggest because it doesn't happen in the shores but it does happen in an awful lot of places. you know, there will be a change in the mindset of the people on the um on the commission and typically they will boot out the city manager or they'll or and or boot out the city attorney

attorney that I mean yes absolutely. Now, when we advertise for the position, do we have to have an ending date for it as well or

you don't have to. you can have you can post it open until filled and then if let's say this November or whatever a local city manager if there's a you know big turnover um might become available and it would be sad to lose that person because the you know the time frame was not right. The only thing I'm concerned with is if we start this process, say next week and we put out an advertisement. I know it's going to take longer to do that than that, but and we say we get 20 resumes and it's really nobody that we're that interested in, then we have to go through the process again and do say may statewide or or nationally and have to do that again. So, uh, what would you I mean, would it is it plausible to do it somewhat locally first to see if we get any hits that we're interested in and then expand it from there? I mean, even statewide to begin with. But I'm just I'm

Well, I I I can tell you with um Google such that it is, you're going to have people from um all over the country. I mean, if you only have it in the Valuchia County papers or blogs or whatever, um, somebody who wants to move to Florida, they're going to be googling, you know, city manager position open in Florida. And again, you know, this is this free state that people want to come into to see a position like that in a debt-free city. And, you know, they're going to do their research. So, yes, I I am not worried at all about getting applicants. you know, I just want to go over the process that we're going to use. So, um, so I'm going to turn it back over to you, Vice Mayor. Uh, again, I'm not going to take the lead like I always do. So, tell us right now, you know, we've done step number one that we have our interim. Um, he's accepted. I think we get his agreement that he will be here to help us as long as it takes to get the right candidate. We've discussed that we're going to get a a form. We're going to look at other city managers requests. were going to update it for Daytona Beach Shores particulars. What is the next step as you see it?

I think the next step is I'll probably have a conversation with Becky to kind of see what the other cities that they've represented, what they did and then what I'll do is probably have an outline and then as we start to receive responses to the advertisement uh for the city manager's position, um Becky will hopefully guide me. I have two private investigators that work for me full-time in my firm. We can do the background check, but if Becky says, "No, Mike, let's do this and this." Because you want to do the social media background check, you of course criminal background check, make sure that uh any lawsuits they were involved in. And then as we begin that filter process, I'm sure there'll be other things we do. And then I guess what I do is I report back to you guys and then eventually uh we see, you know, how that selection process will continue on. If you want to have a workshop with the commission and then we all look at these resumes like Commissioner Diminsky said, so be it. I mean, I'm I'm open to suggestions. Um, but I don't want us to get into micromanaging. I think you have to delegate and let me and the process produce the results with the potential candidates and then of course we'll have an interview process like we did when we select people on the different comm uh

um positions. So I had a question on that, Becky. Where normally do these resumes go? Who gets these? If you put this out, where do we say send your application to? Where do we normally? Okay. If if we are doing it essentially inhouse, then it would probably go to the city clerk. Yeah. Now, is that what we're going to do? Are we going to do it in house? Are we going to hire a search?

Um, I think we're going to do in-house to begin. Well, let but I want everybody's consensus. My idea was to do inhouse first. and then to go to an outside whoever it is, ICMA, whoever it is, and look these over and more or less score them for us before they send it to us. Um, does everyone agree with that that we do the in-house first before we go out? Are you asking me? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, I can.

Okay. One thing that could be put in the advertisement would would be that because a a star might be available right now locally. Who knows? I have no idea. But um you know, put in the advertisement to, you know, respond quickly. Um it's open until filled. Don't wait until any kind of a due date because we might have already filled it. And was that your point that you would rather have it stay open? Is that where you were getting at?

I would, but you know, and I think I kind of talked myself out of my original thought is I don't want to have to keep I'm happy to work as hard as I can for the city, but I don't want to have to all of us to keep repeating this process three and four times. If we get one batch of resumes and we don't like, you know, we're not interested, get another batch. So, I I would like to keep it open and and if we have to expand as far out as possible to get the number of resumes, I think Becky said uh Cocoa Beach had 69 and that was a nationwide search. That's fine. And and the reason is is again I don't want to have to repeat everything over and over again. So, that's fine. And we can still express a preference with somebody who's local anyway if they apply. So, so I think that's fine. And that was, by the way, about a threemon search if I recall.

Okay. Um um one other thing that I want to look at. I know um know Chris, I know that you're going on vacation. You will not have the access, but I'm hoping during the workshops we can sit here and I don't think it's necessary for you to come back from your vacation. Um I was going to say chief again, but commissioner uh for you to come back too. So I think it's something that if we ha if we gave everyone the same information during a workshop, we could have the dialogue. I just want to open that up to I don't think it's necessary. Gift of five. Now, could Becky explain how does the relationship with ICMA work? So, we're not hiring a search firm, but we still have to pay these folks to

do what they're going to do for us. Correct. Um I have represented cities who have hi hired ICMA and they've done a good job and it's it's relatively expensive. um not as expensive as hiring like Colin Basinger who's actually located in Valuchia County. Um he did the nationwide he actually lives in the shores now that so so that's he's really good he's

and you know what and I don't want to spend a lot of the taxpayers money on something like that when it's something that we're all committed to doing if we see that that's the process that we need and we have to spend the money that's what I would suggest doing because again a very very important city and uh traditionally city managers stay very long in Daytona Beach Shores, a little longer than seven and a half, almost eight years. But, um, you know, so it's such an important decision. I want to make sure we're we're thorough on it. Do you know how much ICMA would charge us to I don't what they're going to do. Okay. I mean, I could take a wild guess, but I think wild guess my wild guess would be around 15 to 20,000. Okay.

And and I know um in Ponzin they had a private person doing it and it was somewhere between 20 and $30,000. And I think I think Colin Basinger did for 30 to 35 or something. I don't know. Please don't quote me on that. Although I'm So it's I mean it's a hefty fund we're talking about. But you're going to reach out to Ken Parker sitting.

I can reach out to Ken Parker. But I do have a question and really more for the attorney. If the commission chose to hire an outside party, when people apply, are their applications under sunshine at that point or when the consultant provides it to the commission? My fear is if the minute we advertise it on the city website as a job posting and a resumes come through our website, that's public record. So if we have a local candidate, their current job could be on the line immediately because it's being run through the public record system. I don't know the legalities of how that would work with the consultant. Is it public record once they submit to the consultant or is it not public record?

Check on that because I can see right now a city manager from a city right here in Valuchia County that might want to put their fillers out. that certainly want want their commissioner, their residents to know that they were elected. That's exactly why I'm bringing that up. You may have a very good qualified candidate locally, but they don't want to run the risk until they're at least being considered near the end. Can you check on that? Considered near the end,

meaning they're they make the top 10 or whatever for the commission to select and that timing of when they're uh I've seen a lot of cities. Now, I don't know the transparency issue, but I just know that there will be applicants that won't want it out there. Say if we post it next week, they won't want to put it out there next week until they're truly being considered for the final selection.

If we put it out there, um, we could make it clear that, you know, these could be brought to the commission at any time. um we meet once a month. We could have workshops that could be scheduled. Um there would not be a problem. For instance, let's say in the first week we got 10 applications. We got an absolute superstar in that first um and we recognize it. Um and the vice mayor recognizes that, you know, this is this is somebody really good. Um, we could call a special meeting to examine and we'd have to use all 10 that had so far applied. I mean, that's a possibility. So, that something could happen very quickly. um if a superstar apply.

I I think um what the city manager is more looking at that there might be a very qualified person out there but is a little bit hesitant to even put it out there. So I put my name out there now. What can I say? I don't know. Um um and and then um can you give us some advice on you know I've gotten some calls already. So the advice that we would give right now is we're discussing the process right now. the process, you know, will be open to the public at that time. That's about all we should probably say right now. Sitting Sure. When When are we going to What's the date of our next meeting? September 8th.

Okay. So, that's the we needed to have that for tax. It's because of the budget. Because of the budget. And it's a day early, too, because this is the one we always do on a Monday because of the Lucia County Schools. Right.

Yes. Right. Okay. So, I mean, we could always have um you know, a meeting before the meeting or a meeting after the meeting um where you know, if they're I I don't know where to go with this. If someone has a current position and they're not willing to reveal their name, they're not going to apply anyway because, you know, it's going there's there's going to be a period of time of maybe 10 days or three weeks, whatever it might be, um that their name would be out there so the people are are going to see it. AT&T whenever we were accepting um applications for an open position, one of the questions was, "Have you already discussed this with your supervisor?"

Oh, of course. And in No, I I get that. And as a lawyer, um when I hire people in our firm, we frequently get people from other firms who are applying, but I'm not a government. I can keep secrets. So,

I'm thinking it would it would be an OP. Yeah, but that was a good point you brought up. Um, again, Mike, I'm sorry you're here today. Normally, our meetings are just quick quick quick, but this is this is something that we've really haven't um had exposure to. So, um so, Vice Mayor, with you heading this up, what other questions do you have for our attorney, for any um any of us for clarification? I I have a pretty good idea of what I'm going to do and I think I announced it previously. So, I I'll get with with Becky to get some parameters and then um Kurt presents a very interesting dilemma with regards to uh requesting resumes. Um I think we go the I I'll I'll speak to someone at ICMA. I'll speak to someone at FCC and see what they do. And then uh I think what I'll do is maybe report back um by September 8th. I think that should is more than enough time uh to get at least a good skeleton of what we're going to do and then hopefully we'll agree to it. And in the interim in the interim are we authorizing resumes to come in come to Sherry?

We don't have any minimum qualifications. We don't have an ad. We have to get a form and we have to get a format. So we probably will have to have one workshop before that meeting either be or right before or right after that meeting. So once Becky gets us that form and we want to add on, you know, because already we're talking of September 8th is and again there's no rush to three weeks, right? I'd like to get at least started on the process. I agree. Okay. I agree. So I I'll make myself available. I made that commitment. So um I'll I'll call you Becky. Uh what's today? Wednesday. sometime uh tomorrow or Friday at the latest and then we'll we'll start from there. Okay, great. Thank you. I look forward to working with you. Yes, you too, city manager.

Uh I was just going to add that uh since I became a member of ICMA a while back. Probably daily I get solicitations from all over the country for city manager openings and I could probably go grab 10 or 20 of it from my junk email and forward those as a template just as a starting point. That would be great. And then and then Kurt, let me ask you this question. Are they basically the same? I mean who we're not going to ask a city manager to do a lot more than any other one. What would you say the distinguishing parts are? From what I've seen, and I haven't studied them, could you work?

I really wasn't looking at them. Um, really, it's the uniqueness of each city in terms of do they have a CRA or not? Things like that. Do they have water and sewer plants? Like we do not. So, that would be our emphasis, I think, with my opinion. But we would emphasize the services we do provide and things like life is better here. So we're more or less selling the position. We want you to come and this is why our city is so unique. Sales brochure is exactly what it is. Why why would want somebody want to come here. But I get those daily so I can provide some recent ones.

I I get them for city attorney positions also. So you understand? And if they use head hunters, um, they they used to, but now they are digital. I used to get them in the mail. They would be slick cover things that, you know, why in the world did they spend all this money for, you know, something down in Miami, they'll have pictures of the beach, they'll have pictures of this, and it'll be like a 10page um, shiny cover magazine. You know, don't you want to be city attorney here? you know, now it's all digital, but same

it might be the same thing, too. Again, worth we're worth selling the position. So, Vice Mayor, before um we end this part and we move on to the next section, do you have any questions for any of us or for our city attorney? No. Okay, great. Okay. Does anyone else have any input that they want to give our vice mayor? Okay, seeing none, um so this was nothing we needed to vote on. This was discussion only. Ready? Yes.

Okay, great. I don't want to miss another vote. All right. So, now we are going to go on to uh item B and this is Senate Bill 180 uh the county request. So, let me give you a little bit of back background on this. So, Senate Bill 180 has been a very hot topic. Um I was in Orlando last week. We had a discussion on it. So, Senate bill and as you all know it um a lot of cities take think it takes away home rule. Um I have received the home rule arrow five times now. So I am definitely definitely for home rule and this does go against home rule. Um the intent of the bill was to help residents. This is what they said it was to help residents um who were out of their homes not to be unduly burdened to try and get back in so that there was no um extra restrictions put on them before they got back in. I think the bill was a good bill probably till it got the end and that it had very uh vague language that talked about burdensome. You know, how do you measure burdensome? So, right now, um, we received a letter and it is from our county chair. You'll see the email right there if you look at the last exhibit. So, they went over it in, uh, a lot of detail and there, um, there were two recommendations for amendments to this bill. I want to tell you right now um you know with the relationship that I have with the legislature. I've already talked to Trace Traymont um and Tom Wright. I have a call into Tom Leak and um Bill Pardington. I want their assurance that if we come up with amendments, if we give them specific examples of how this bill negatively impacts our city or any other city in Valuchia County that they are willing to

listen to us and look at our proposed amendments. So, um I'm feeling, you know, with the relationship that all of us have with our legislators, that's something that would happen. So, what we're trying to vote on right now is uh in support of the proposed amendments that the county put forward that we say yes, we are going to support you on those two. So, I hope that gives you a little bit of background. I think we have a speaker here tonight that wants to talk on the bill. If you want to come up, just introduce yourself and um you know where where you're coming from, please.

Madame Mayor, Mr. Vice Chair, members of the commission, staff. My name is Mike Ponittowski and I come from the Tammoka farms rural village little two square mile enclave out on Tammoka farmers road and I've been there for 38 years. Before that I came from right here to be shores. Grew up here. I worked for a guy named Bob Davis who you may know or may remember. Rest in peace.

Uh running the pool decks for him and selling suntan lotion, taking pictures. I had a beach stand down here just south of the city on the beach for a number of years. And for 40 years, my dad had a business right at Dunlot and A1A, which is now a CBS pharmacy. So, I grew up here. I have a vested interest in your great city. Guys are doing a great job. But let's talk about Senate Bill 180. So, it may not affect Daytona Beach Shores, and I want to I really appreciate you guys stepping up and wanting to pass a resolution in support of the county amendments and a letter to support, you know, getting the bill amended. But I think at some point for those of us who development affects detrimentally, my home has flooded twice since Hurricane Ian because a city annexed pasture land and built homes. We have that all over the county, whether it's in the county areas, Deltona, Orange City, Dillian Springs. So it affects us more than will affect Daytona Beach Shores. So at some point, can you trust your legislative delegation? Can you trust what they're going to tell you? Because the bill turned into something that it was not supposed to be and it does usurp home rule and it does detrimentally affect those of us that live in rural communities with development and property rights. So those are the things I'm talking about today. So if today you can take a further step is to join the growing coalition of cities Edgewater and Deltona for two in Valuchia County and others across the state to actually join a suit against the state of Florida to overturn SB80 and develop it maybe later on into something that really works to protect homeowners that need to get back into their homes secondary to a disaster like a hurricane. But it that's not what it does. It usurps home rule. It usurps private property rights and it detrimentally affects those who live in areas that are subject to vast development. So if you don't decide to do that today, maybe down the road if

you see the legislative delegation is not owning up to their words or or living up to their their responsibilities to protect us. But what a better message to send for Daytona Beach Shores to today pass your resolution and to step up a little further and join the suit against the state of Florida. It's the bold thing to do. It's the right thing to do. And you'll help protect the other cities, the other 16 municipalities in Valia County that you're partners with. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Have a great afternoon. You're welcome. Thanks, Mike.

Um Okay. And normally, as we say, you know, um in um the way that we normally operate is, you know, when someone comes up to speak, we don't address that, but want to give you a little bit more background on this if no one if you don't know about this. So, one of the things that uh some of the cities and two of them as Mike had talked about in Valia County are doing is um filing a suit against the state on on this SB180. Um so, uh there will be there I think there's a forum is it out of South Florida? Do you know? I believe the firm's out of South Florida. Yes.

Out of South Florida that will be um hearing this and there is other cities. So, I want to be fully transparent with you as I always am. There's other cities in the state of Florida that are joining that suit. That is something if you want to look into, we can um do that at our next council meeting. There is a charge to our residents probably around at least starting out at 10 to $15,000. I'm going to speak for myself right now. I agree with these amendments that we're going to pass forward that the county came up with. The way that I operate is first through diplomacy, um networking and building relationships. I feel like every one of those has a very excellent relationship with our um with our legislators. Um to Mike's point, if down the road we see now, they will start in session in November. So, we can reach out to them, but I'm not going to wait till that session starts. I am going to reach out to each one of the legislators as I did to see if they're open to supporting any amendments. Are they going to support that? So, I would urge each and every one of you because I know each of you has a relationship with our legislators to say, you know, this is how we're feeling, not so much for Daytona Beach Shores, but as we've always done, we've always um protected the other cities and we've gone along with them because they've done that through us. So, um, does anyone have any questions on that that I might be able to answer? Um, you don't have to give me your answer today, but you know, um, Sher, I'd like this added to the next agenda that right now we're doing this support of the amendments. And if anyone else has anything that they want to do differently and be involved in uh, the lawsuit against the state that you would uh, bring that forward on September 8th. Any discussions or any questions on that?

Okay, Madam Mayor, there was a third request or not a the lawsuit request was not in the county chair's email. It was the request to call for a special legislative session. Uh, I believe those were the two questions being asked in the agenda item to do a letter of support uh for the county's proposed uh bill amendments and then your support or don't support a special legislative session request of our delegation. Don't believe the lawsuit was in there. um

it wasn't and I was just going to bring it up so that u you know said Mike brought it up and I I didn't know how much people were familiar with that. So also there is another option too that um a letter of um from our commission that we would request to the governor that he would um institute a special session to to hear this SB 180. So um so Becky, how do we take separate votes or tell me how

um you should take a separate vote with regard to and I'll jump in here. I have reviewed the um proposed amendments to SB 180. Those are the appropriate amendments. That was very well done. I believe it was by the county attorney's office. They did a great job. Um, so I would I would have a vote on whether a letter would go out in support of these changes and a separate vote um as to whether that letter would include a request um for a special legislative session. And and I will say that um from everything I've been able to view um uh cities that are really in your face um confrontational with the legislature, with the governor um pay for it pretty severely and their citizens pay for it pretty severely. Um, there are, you know, repercussions of not being able to get grants. There are repercussions of having Doge come in and saying, you know, you shouldn't be spending your money on this, this, and this or or whatever it might be. So, you know, just from a legal standpoint, there's nothing illegal about um, you know, either filing suit or making a demand for a special session. But I think possibly it's it's not from a practical standpoint a good idea. I think that there that it's always appropriate to make suggestions with regard to changes in the law and and I don't believe that anyone would find that to be confrontational or um you know being pushy putting the shores on any kind of a blacklist or anything like that.

Okay. Well, thank you for that. Um so right now the first thing that we are going to um well one other point I wanted to bring up there too and I'm not even saying if it was when did session end May or June it was so long.

Okay. All right. So I'm thinking even then you know I might consider requesting a special session. I believe they're going to start to come back and meet again in November. I'm almost thinking at the point that we're at right now, by the time they got that letters and and did that, it's almost a mute point. So, that's something else I'd like to consider. So, um I need a motion right now to um to support the two amendment items that the county attorney came up with that we will send a letter to the county that were in support of them. Um, that is the first thing I need a motion for and a second and then a discussion and then we'll go on to adding the other one. So, do I hear a motion?

I'll move. Thank you. Second. I'll second it. Thank you. A question on the motion. Can that motion be amended, please, to authorize the mayor to sign a letter in support of those? Otherwise, it needs to come back before the commission. Okay. the letter. Good call. Good. All right. Yeah, I I'll amend my motion. Okay. All right. You will. Okay. And who who did the second? That was me. All right. That was second. Okay. Thank you. So, I will sign that letter that we are in support of that. So, um Sharon, can you take a vote on that, please?

Any discussion? Any further discussion? Oh, forgot to vote. I was waiting for the results. It said vote results. I'm waiting. Okay. And that passed 5-0.

So, the second thing I want to know, do you want to include in that letter that we will request of the governor a second a session, a special session? Does anyone feel like they want a mot? Okay, I'm not getting a motion. So, that will die for lack of participation. So, thank you very much. So, again, we I will sign that letter that we've all discussed as a letter of support. So, again, Mike, thank you for being here today. You can stay. We only have one more item. Okay. And this is resolution 2025-14 authorizing the city manager to enter into an agreement to accept properties acquired through the applical housing and urban development community disaster block grant disaster program. I see our community service director up here. So Stuart, what do you have for us today?

Thank you madame mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. Stuart Cruz, community services director. So this resolution pertains to single family residential properties in flood flood prone areas that were impacted by hurricane Ian and hurricane Nicole, I'm sorry, hurricane Milton as well. And so if this resolution was approved by the city commission, it would authorize the city manager to essentially execute and deliver all documents, instruments necessary to accept the transfer of these properties uh real properties that were um that would the proper county transform 386 program for land acquisition for these properties that are in flood areas that were impacted by the storms that I just mentioned subject to federal regulations and subject to any kind of deed restrictions. So essentially um somebody a property who that was impacted by either of those hurricanes and are inflict areas, they can apply to the Baluchia County Transform 360 program which has been funded by the federal government to basically have the county purchase those properties and then the properties would be transferred over to the to the city subject to any kind of uh deed restrictions. And so the deed restriction more than likely would be that the property is remained or remains in perpetuity for open space and for stormwater management purposes. So the only obligation that the city would really have if that were to occur would for maintenance purposes basically mowing the lawn or mowing the grass, you know, dealing with basic u maintenance issues. Um, to my knowledge, there hasn't been any property owner that has um that is interested in this project so far. But if it if a property owner were to be interested in this project project um and program, they would essentially apply to the transform 386 county program and then we would move forward with that and this resolution would authorize the city manager to realize that um through the acceptance and transfer pro property um process.

Thank you. And to expand on that, so um again with me being on the storm water mitigation, so Donna Butler, who is managing this program, it's a wonderful program. Again, transfer 386. We don't anticipate, we haven't had anyone that applies, but she's asking every city in Valuchia County, many have already done this, to do this uh resolution. So this is a formality in case anyone would come along and apply. We have everything in place that they need. So um just wanted to explain that to you what's happening with that. Thank you Stuart. Um do I hear a motion? I need to read my title. Good.

Okay. This is resolution number 2025-14. A resolution of the city commission of the city of Daytona Beach Shores, Florida, authorizing the city manager to enter into agreements with Valuchia County for the acceptance of properties acquired through the housing and urban devel urban development HUD community disaster block grant disaster recovery CBD-dr funded single family homeowner repair and replacement program and homeowner recovery program buyout pathway providing for severability and providing for an effective date.

Thank you, attorney. So, do I hear a motion to accept resolution 2025-14? So, move. Thank you. Is there a second? I'll second.

Thank you. Any questions for our um director of public of services? If not, can we have a vote, please? Okay. And that passed 50-0. Thank you for that. Uh, city attorney, I'm sure you had a lot of comments this evening, but do you have any other comments for us? No, madam mayor. Thank you. City manager, do you have any comments for us? No, I believe I've spoken enough.

Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, commissioner comments. Uh, vice mayor, do you have anything for us? Thank you. Commissioner economist. No comments. Thank you. The only thing that I have right now, Nancy, you don't have that list for me, but um I don't think Did you give me that list? We are going to have a concert this Friday night, um, August 22nd, and that one starts at 6:30. No food trucks. Do you want to go over it? It's Dustin Seymour. That's all I was going to add.

Okay, great. Thank you. Um and we are be uh this we'll have one more meeting before I will re be resuming coffee with the mayor again in September. So this one bit will be on September 10th. You know again these meetings are for our residents. So we have each one of our department heads here. Full transparency. You can ask any question and normally get the immediate answer right there. Um they're very well attended. if you haven't been to them. Chuck and Denise, I haven't seen you at 1 yet, but I'd I'd love to see you there 10 o'clock in the morning. So, we will be starting those again. Remember, please note that our next city council meeting, commission meeting will be September 8th. A little bit different. It's on a Monday this time. So, anyway, um, Commissioner Carr, do you have anything else for us?

No, ma'am. Okay. Commissioner Dinsky, no. Okay. Can I just thank both of you again for your dedication to the city that you're giving up your vacation as you see it was a very very important discussion. I know you were both going to call in. It just loses something sometime again on the workshop. I think that would be fine if you call in if you have those in front of you but this was a very important meeting. I greatly appreciate both of you. Thank you for your comments.

Um I don't see any audience comments on the um speaker form. Sherry, did I miss anything? Okay, as I always do, we don't have too many people in the audience. Is there anything that anyone wants to add, even if you did not sign the audience form? Anything else you'd like to talk about? Okay, seeing none, and then um Sherry, you have the agenda items that we're going to add on that we got from the meeting today for next time. Okay. Anything else that we need to add on to next agenda?