Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

good afternoon everyone welcome to the november 3rd 2025 meeting uh let's start off with the roll call all right uh joe robinson is here but he said he would be robert spandler here john kirschner here josh first here

Gary Lanker? Here. Brian Homeroi?

Here.

Taryn Morgan? Chris Dietz? Yes, here. And Mary Gieske?

Here.

And Commissioner Hartwig?

Anyone we missed? Looks like we got everyone right in front of you. or in your email you've received the minutes of the October 6th meeting we have a motion to accept those minutes by Mary who was the second Josh thank you Josh all in favor say aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye We have looks like 2,589 dollars and 37 cents. Expenditures, so we have a motion for the treasures report. So move by Gary. You have a 2nd. 1st, no seconds. John, thank you. John favor. Say hi. Hi. Hi. nice hearing none motion carries thank you reports any officers have any reports i have none none none okay moving on communications and staff reports none at this time all righty the program progress report

I'll take that. It's a pretty busy month. Actually, October, we had a number of of conferences. At the very beginning of the month, there was the PennDOT Planning Partners Conference. Our staff attended and actually did three different presentations there, one on some kind of interactive mapping dashboards we developed. We also presented some kind of basic planning education, as well as on our regional active transportation plan that we adopted last past April. Um, some other highlights we have our. Our Nevi community charging programs, that's part of the, the federal. Electric vehicle infrastructure program. That's what that is national electric vehicle infrastructure program. So there's been a couple rounds and pen dots already done that and focused on kind of the big highways, the interstate cores to enable kind of long distance travel. This community charging program is then to. Kind of look at where we should invest outside of those big quarters. So what it sounds like community based charging, not necessarily quarter based. So we have, we develop some web tools. couple maps and then we're asking for uh for input uh through a survey and an interactive mapping kind of application that allows you to drop points where you'd like to see uv charging uh and then um eventually that will be kind of the outreach results will be combined with some analysis and that'll go before hats in the spring Then we have to submit what they want priority communities. So kind of geographically where we would want. Where we see as priorities for additional charging infrastructure as well as what they call use cases, which are kind of like. Land uses and type, so it's a couple of different grocery stores, convenience stores, large commercial centers. Then sound towns where people can't park on their own land, you know, in their own driveways, those types of things. So we'll be going through that exercise kind of through this winter into the spring. Um. So that that, uh. that survey is available on our website and we'd appreciate any assistance anybody can give us in helping to get the word out because the more responses we get from places that you might represent, the better that's going to look when we do our community rankings. So, yeah. is that both like public and private partnerships i mean to like you know basically it'll it'll be operated very similarly to the last round where it's basically private companies saying i want to install i want to install public or ev charging like sheets corporation or something okay so but then municipalities could also have publicly available like in your apartment So if you have a municipal parking lot. That's one of the use cases where it is kind of subject to the prioritization. We've also kicked off what's called the Human Service Transportation Plan. That looks at kind of the mobility needs and barriers for the elderly and disabled in our region. That is a federally mandated plan that HATS as an MPO and Tri-County as a staff done. The last one was done in 2015. So we just kicked this one off. Again, there's a survey. That's kind of a targeted survey. We haven't released it yet. That'll be specifically sent to, it'll be open to the public, but it's really meant for seniors, the disabled, people with kind of specialized transportation needs. Uh, 1 down through the only other much 2 other things. We did only adopt and then and then submit our regional transportation plan. So that was a big deal for us. Our, our long range transportation plans can formally submitted to. And that FDA and for approval, we expect that later in December. And then we're doing tip development right now for this year's tip update. We did have a work session with our MPO members in October. We kind of walked through everything. I think the takeaway of that was we don't have a lot of money to work with right now. And given that the federal infrastructure funding legislation lapses the day this tip takes effect, we're not going to be especially aggressive. We're just at this point, we're just kind of guessing as to the funding levels we're going to have and kind of assuming they're going to stay the same. But that may or may not be true. It's all subject to whatever happens in Washington, you know, next late summer into the fall. So we won't know until we know what kind of comes out of that process. Carrie, did you have anything for, you know, I'll also mention the planning conference, the PPA planning conference was in Harrisburg. A lot of great sessions. a bunch on affordable housing i think i went to two different affordable housing or even kind of like removal type kind of housing oriented sessions some stormwater stuff some transportation stuff so the one of the ones was about the energy consumption as it associates with the data centers the head of the euc with

president of the regional transmission lines that were our district was there so that was pretty good uh but 450 planners uh a lot of them from the philadelphia because uh it's easy to get here right so uh we had a very i think very well attended very well represented by track county yeah and the commissioners were so generous to a lot of the support planning and they they funded a number of uh activities in terms of the receptions and everything yeah i know i know commissioner priest was at the sunday night yeah and he spoke yes it was very appreciated yeah fair enough so you have 450 of things i didn't i didn't hear that number but it was

That room was full.

The whole Hilton was full. Although the next day, the breast cancer awareness people were there and there were a lot of people there. But for planning in central, south central Pennsylvania, it was a very well attended, got to show up a lot. Karen gave a number of share was highly promoted. And I think everybody generally, the overall view of the conference was positive.

Yeah.

Okay. Is that everything there?

Yeah.

Okay. We have the local planning assistance report there. 30 hours out there and uh meetings around the county it's glad to see that the craft they're helping them uh a lot of uh see a lot of long meetings there i'm sure they're not all one night but no actually they were were they yeah yeah

I see there South Hanover Township, five hours. Yes, there was a fair amount of discussion on data centers in South Hanover as they're trying to navigate what's going on. And our fact sheet was pretty much highlighted with Karen and Claire. Same thing that Swatera Township was four hours and I was there.

It was about data centers as well. So that was it.

That's the topic of the day.

And even if you go out to Washington Township, Cairn Fournette, it was another long night meeting with a number of communities up there about data centers. So everybody's asking how, what they possibly could do, because that's the new exciting thing going on.

And from what I read in the papers and all that, everyone wants to Great stuff. So they can't, I mean, so they don't come through municipalities.

I mean, I think, I think as with every issue, there's two topics. The one that's the, the recognize we need these things because of tech, everything that we're having. But where and how do you best fit them in? You know, everything is being hard to locate somewhere. But the energy draw is quite large. And to fool these things takes a lot of water. So that's also a strain on facilities. There is the positive that once you get them in there, they do not create a lot of traffic. They do not generate a lot of outside needs in terms of transportation and or other type of traditional development land use costs. And also the value of them is providing quite a bit of tax revenue to locations. So there's a lot of excitement going on.

Yeah, we just lost a community up in Northeast Pennsylvania that's sold out that's going to close. a manufactured housing community with over 100 sites for the purpose of a data center going in. So we have concerns because we're gonna be targeted because we have large land masses that could be utilized. We went through the same thing with box stores, looking for a large land mass to do something with.

Yeah, and I think that's kind of where we all stand in terms of what's the best use of our land. You know, a lot of the things that are happening elsewhere is they're taking agricultural land again. And, you know, there's the dynamic of losing the large lots for their agricultural base. You know, it's, it's, you know, and we're going to be talking a little bit about housing to the, you know, what is good for one thing is good for many. And that's right now the highest bidder is the data center.

So, right. Committee's there are any committees out there right now. So. Old business, subdivision land development, Williamsburg borough.

Okay, if you were at last month's meeting or part of the review of what was going on, there is a land development application that is up in Millersburg and Upper Paxton Township. Upper Paxton has its own review procedures, so they are looking at this land development or this subdivision on their own, and we provided our review comments, but with the uh the land development or with the subdivision in millersburg portion that is a county approval uh to andrew if you want to kind of bring that plan up just very quickly and i'll i'll go over it just to remind everybody nope that's it either one either either show more information that'll get us the site line the uh The Polk Foundation is looking to subdivide a piece of property that contains a medical facility. It's located off of Private public slash street. And it's which crosses between. Millersburg and upper packs and township. You see, it's coming off a medical road there and it's Evelyn drive is that the public. Private slash street street and that's where a lot of this discussion was on subdividing this piece of property off. The foundation appears this is going to be selling that piece to whoever the applicant is or owner is. That's my assumption. I think that's what has been conveyed. But the main concern that we all had whenever we were viewing this with everybody was that road. Typically, whenever you do a subdivision, pretty much our regulations and everybody's regulation is that you got to have public access and off of a public street, or it can be private, but this was all done way back whenever the medical facility was built and put in, and this road was put in, and it was shown as a public road, but privately maintained. So there was no real record of it until the Polk Foundation came through with giving some information about how the road has been maintained and how it's continued to be maintained. My understanding is that what everybody, according to the agreement, is Upper Paxson goes back and plows it. And they maintain like potholes and everything up into the line, but then the owner of the land is responsible for doing everything else in terms of fixing the road and such. It is a non-compliant road. It's, I think, only 18 feet in width. TAB, Mark McIntyre, So that was the main thing to determine what how to handle this application with the assurances that whenever you do a subdivision you create a new lot that every facility is there, so I think in in. TAB, Mark McIntyre, In this case, the main thing is to make sure that every facility is there. working through with Tanner and with the borough and with Upper Paxton, I think we have the necessary assurances that we know who owns it and who is going to be maintaining it. And we wanted to have that reported onto the plan to make sure that that goes on throughout the time period. The other main thing was with any new subdivision, of course, you've got to put in sidewalks. so um you know there's this is a piece that's in a rural section i mean kind of undeveloped section however you know there is some development out there it is a medical facility the question is is there intent for putting in sidewalks and if there is you know it doesn't make sense to put them in now versus putting them later or such and everything else one of the things was is uh that roadway is only 18 feet the right-of-way however is 50 feet so if anybody's ever going to be putting in some sidewalks it's naturally assumed if they can put them inside the uh that right away so tanner working with all the different parties millersburg and upper packs and everyone seems to be fine with that however we wanted to have that noted in on the plan so um That's pretty much the summary of it. I don't know if there's any questions. I don't know, Chris, if you want to speak to it somewhat, if you're familiar with it, or if we can go and give just our general recommendation for approval with conditions.

I think the conditions that you have here in the letter are pretty good. about maintaining the possibility for future sidewalks is good. And yeah, the easements for the utilities as well.

Unrelated to this action, do you have what year this property was built, what year this building was built? Just curious if you...

It's been a while. This is late 80s, I think. Does that sound right, Chris?

I don't know. I wasn't in the area at that time.

Can you zoom in on any some notes on there? No, I don't know. I mean, I knew it's where the road is maybe.

So the maintenance agreement is from 1991. That's when it was done. Yeah. June 1991. There you go.

Late 80s, early 90s. Yeah, my age, that's pretty close. So, in essence, our recommendation is for granting of one waiver, which is preliminary plan approval, and then having a few conditions, just briefly. There are easements that are not shown across We believe that should be shown, and they have it. They just need to show it. A note on the Evelyn Drive is a non-conforming street, and it would not be permitted under the current ordinance, which is because it's a dead-end street. So we're going to consider that existing non-conforming. Uh, the put the note on the plan, indicating that the deed of dedication for the public road. Is there and it's going to be maintaining it. Uh, between, uh, property only in Millersburg and upper packs and as mentioned that agreement, as Chris said, it was a 91. In lieu of the sidewalks, place a note on the plan that there will be a pedestrian easement within that right-of-way, that 50-foot easement, so in case there is to be any time a sidewalk. Then also note the dates of the waivers. Note the date of the upper PACS and approval of the plan as well. So other than that, that's what we're suggesting, and if they I think everyone's in agreement with this.

Okay, we have to take action on that. Do I have a motion for the staff recommendations? Thank you, Gary. Do I have a second?

I'll second it, Brian.

Thank you, Brian. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries. Thank you. New business, subdivision land development. In front of us there are 11 plans for this month. Guys, was there anything that different than the ordinary? Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. And this includes your stack.

Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. it's separate what if there's the upper packs and thing is in there it's only because the. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. I think we need to prove our notes. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. yeah I think we approved the last time the notes on the upper pack So these are all new different plants and what we just have. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Are you sure that's. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Someone is not.

TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Their goals and more very foundation.

TAB, Mark McIntyre:" That would thank people. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Oh, so it is. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Well, then that's the upper packs portion. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Okay. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Is that we did review it as a separate application on their and their audiences.

um if no one has any questions of those 11 plans uh divide the motion to uh accept the staff comments for those 11 plans and send that all along don't move mary geisky will second who made the motion josh josh oh thank you josh and mary all in favor say aye aye aye aye Any nays? Hearing none, all 11 plans move forward. Thank you. Comprehensive plans, West Hanover Township.

Yes, West Hanover last year or so have been working towards a comprehensive plan. um a copy of the plan was available for you to review if you wanted to it was in the last page of our handout the link was provided uh our person uh rebecca weinshoff that's how you say it's flinching orange shop when shop uh still these pencil a dust I know Slablinsky Galansky, my Western PA. You know, yins and wins, right? Yeah, that's right. So she was part of the review team, and we think it was a very well done plan. We have our recommendation is that it be adopted. We also found that consistent with our goals, there was nothing outstanding that was against we are seeking to do as a county. There were some general comments, and those were contained in the letter, but they were mainly just some cleanup items in terms of additional items, maybe some things to include in terms of making a little bit clearer of things that were going on. Otherwise, we're recommending a supportive plan.

Okay. We have a motion to accept the West Hanover comp plan.

Motion. This is Chris.

Thank you, Chris. So I have a second. Thank you, John. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries. Thank you. We have a 537 plan in front of us for Lower Sweet Arrow Township.

Yes, Lower Swatera has been ongoing as well, doing a reviewing of their needs for particularly some areas of lacking of public sewer and also some development of a new unlocked disposal system ordinance. We necessarily won't talk a little bit about all the details of it from an engineering or costs or such, always supportive of having municipalities look at their work in terms of improving facilities, taking care of failing systems, and moving forward in terms of environmental and development. whether it's cost effective or whether it's engineering sound we're not going to necessarily weigh in on those technical details but as a general type of thing in terms of planning and overall needs yes we we agree and therefore we're recommending that they adopt their 537 plan okay you have a motion for the lower sweater 537 plan so move thank you mary do i have a second

Second.

Joe Robinson. Chris or Joe?

Chris or Joe, doesn't matter. Joe's fine. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? Motion carries. Thank you. Intergovernmental reviews.

Okay, we can take these all three at once. There's about two minutes above and beyond the top of the norm. Capital Region Water, Penvest, is seeking $120 million for 10 different sewage treatment plants improvements and other improvements to their system, not only doing things that the the Spring Creek Interceptor and Spring Lake Creek pumping station replacement and also the Paxton Creek our goals to have the project completed. The next one is the Tandish Run. Millersburg Borough is seeking money from the Commonwealth Finance Authority to take care of all those projects that we've talked about. Of course, we're in favor of that. And the last one is, again, City of the Capital Region Water is doing another project. They're looking for Department of Community and Economic Development, local share to green infrastructure along Riverfront Park. These are all part of the things that they've been doing on the park and all that area to handle their stormwater outflows into the Susquehanna River. So again, it's a facility improvement. We're certainly in favor of that.

Okay, you have a motion to accept the 3 intergovernmental reviews. So move.

Brian Pomeroy will 2nd.

And Brian with a 2nd, thank you all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries. More items. Future meetings.

I can take that one. We're slowly getting there. The conference room construction is built. We're waiting on some of the IT stuff, hopefully by December, but definitely by June.

Okay. So stay tuned. Also in the packet was the 2026 meeting dates.

Yes, this will need to take action on because we have to have our meeting dates advertised. So there are two or three questionable items that we want to talk about how you want to possibly handle it. uh we have our meetings on the first monday of the month however on april 6th is the easter monday with easter being april 5th even though easter is not recognized the political holiday if that's a concern we can certainly put that the other date is july 4th is on a saturday and that and if that may be over the holiday weekend so uh july 6th is the fall The question is, it doesn't technically interfere with it as it does September 14th, which is the labor day, pushing it back a week. But these are two dates.

Do you want to have it modified in any way because- Haven't we historically changed those dates and made them a week later? We have and haven't.

We've done it both ways.

i don't think um businesses um even let off for even good friday anymore more and more businesses are getting away from that correct we we are working on good friday as well right are you off monday because you're working good friday no no it's it's just a regular store from

sure you guys are, you know, don't have plans and everything.

They're good for me.

Okay. Okay, so July, what about the July one?

Well, that's fine.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't even find people wanting to take long holidays or anything. So I don't know how others look at that.

I would suggest leaving the 4th of July one week. I would think that would be a move to the 13th, if you see. I would agree.

I'd be good with that. All right. So we will amend that to July 13th. That'll be the second Monday. All right. What I'd like to do is, again, take a vote. The schedule will be January 5th, February 2nd, March 2nd, April 6th, which has not changed, May 4th, June 1st, July 13th, August 3rd, September 14th, which would be a second Monday because of the holiday, October 5th, November 2nd, December 7th.

Don't move that looks good for me. We have a motion from Gary to accept those dates. So I have a 2nd.

2nd.

Yeah, Joe Robinson. Yeah, thank you favor. Say, aye aye aye aye. Any days. Here, you know, those are the dates. The Tri-County Membership, appointment of members from Dauphin County, Perry County. Rupert Clayton leaves. What do we need to do?

Okay. In the packet, I gave the listing of the membership and then also highlighted the ones who are Tri-County members. There's four of them. Mr. Kirchner, Mr. Lenker, and Ms. Gayski. The Planning Commission points four members to serve on the Tri-County Board, which is a two-year process. TAB, Mark McIntyre, The also if you notice all the people who currently are there, and then when their terms are expiring. TAB, Mark McIntyre, The only one who next year from our planning Commission who's not going to who has a term expiring as miss Morgan so so that's if you're taking into consideration any of that so so as a committee, you want to recommend who to serve certainly. Happy to make that one of her notifications to try counting.

Yeah, i'll move that the approve the for your point before they were listed.

Yeah, i'll second that Brian Pomeroy.

Yeah, I guess do we do we have because all 4 of you are on here. Do we have concurrence that you guys are all interested? Everyone?

Yeah, that's going to ask that question. Is there anyone not interested in staying with the tri county planning?

I'm happy to continue serving unless there's some of our newer board members that want to. Step outside of dolphin and serve.

There's 5 with data.

Oh, what was that?

Yeah, John was okay with staying.

Okay.

Oh, okay. Thanks. I hope I said that right. Great job. Yeah, that's correct.

Okay, so everyone that's I would gladly like to stay on that also. So we had a motion from Gary. For the 4 people that are presently on there to stay on there. Do I have a 2nd.

Brian Pomeroy seconded.

Yep, I seconded.

Okay. Brian second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries. Yes, standards run update.

Yes, you know, there's the grant application that was, we noted a little bit earlier here. Also, too, we reached out to. TAB, Mark McIntyre, To Jay manager millersburg and got a little report here and i'll just read it, and maybe Chris. TAB, Mark McIntyre, talk a little bit about as well, he said, the only update I have is that we still do not have a contractor willing to touch the emergency evacuation. TAB, Mark McIntyre, Senator rossman's office is giving me Jay and touch and best look at additional funding so. and then he was going to action to see how the rain impacted the 544 State Street. See if there was any action that we had not heard anything to that effect. Chris, I don't know if you want to give any additional or have anything you want to add.

Well, our original contractor did did pull out when kind of the rubber hit the road and the timing was there to be able to proceed. We did get an extension, I think, on the permits. I don't remember exactly if it was 30 or 60 days, but there's a little time left to find a contractor. But I can say that whatever the cost will be for that is going to increase most likely from what it was from the the original contractor we had because he's typically the lowest in the area. So there'll be a bit of a challenge there potentially if we do find a new contractor to do it. So evolving as time goes on and none of these things are ever simple. So we're continuing to work our way forward.

Thank you. Yep. Dauphin County comp plan.

Yes, kind of give you a quick, there was a, in the last link, I included what we have put together in terms of a scope of work that we've put together for our grant application. If you want to take a look at that and give back to me if you go over. We do have a gaming grant application in, and we do also have a state planning grant application in our projected budget. Those two grants is $150,000 total, taking 18 months to do it. If we do not get funding, we will still move forward, of course, because we have to have it done within the timeframe. It's just that it's going to be playing some musical chairs shape or form but this is what we're looking to do the main thing to kind of talk to you about or kind of just let you know uh the public participation stuff is going to be i don't know anything is it just me what's that can you hear yourself okay let me turn my this is my speaker i don't hear anything i can

we hear you joe hang on yeah how about now joe i would say just keep calling i don't know what else

So, anyway, the 1st, few months are going to be putting together a public outreach. What we're looking to do is to have a survey out. We're going to have a couple of workshops and also the formation of a overall advisory committee, or a focus kind of overseer group. We're still working on who that might be. If there's anybody other than the general planning commission members want to serve. in an advanced capacity and go to all those things of course this is your plan you're the planning commission so any of these things you'll be invited to uh but if there's anything above and beyond you want to take part in this outreach uh type of things just let us know so anytime there's going to be something you will be notified you will be automatically part of this advice as well, but we're putting that together. The survey is putting together. One of the focuses of it is, of course, to be similar to what we've done in the past in terms of meeting the MPC requirements, but also one of the things the regional plan for all of this thing. And so the idea is talking to making sure Perry's plan and Cumberland plan and the regional growth plan and the transportation improvement plan, everything else meets in terms of land use and overall goals, because it's no sense to have everything working against each other. That's one of the main focuses that we're going to be going underneath as we kind of do that.

I think we see our two regional plans as kind of the comp plan of the comp plans, whether it's the regional growth management plan or the regional transportation plan. And those filter down to the county comp plans, which then hopefully filter down to the municipal comp plans and ultimately to the local land use policy. We want to make sure that kind of foundation and that structure is. Is kind of strong and apparent in these plans as we can.

So if you have chances, if you have a chance and you want to look at that scope, if you have any heartburn, let me know. It's in the packet. If it's in the packet, it's on the last page.

So there's a link to it. The actual scope is not in there. We could follow up with the PDF after the meeting. Yeah, if anybody wants to know.

If anybody wants to know. Okay.

Okay. Gary, did you want to talk a little bit about that email you sent out? Yeah, I just wanted to follow up. I did share with the commission members a piece of legislation, actually major legislation, that the United States Senate, in a bipartisan fashion, passed a number of weeks ago. The legislation is called the Road to Housing Act, and it really is to address the housing crisis in this country, something that this commission has talked about off and on. Ricks, Housing affordability, housing attainability at our Trent County Regional Planning Commission luncheon this year, we had the governor's office talk about that, so one of the key points on this legislation is. addressing key concerns around zoning and land use policies and it just made me think i know that in the last three years or so we have had some periodic involvement presentation with groups on this topic and i just didn't know if anything was planned for 2026 uh it certainly uh reinforces what is happening. And the land use and zoning is a key part of that.

Sure. I mean, I think, and I'll speak to certainly the regional plan, the regional growth management plan, we just kicked it off. We have a survey out right now. That's going to be a very kind of analytical and technical document that looks at kind of growth and projected growth What could that growth look like? What do we want that growth to look like? What are the impacts if it looks this way versus this way? That will then feed down into, and that will, the Regional Growth Management Plan will also have, like it normally does, some good, very broad, but good policy recommendations, always dealing with encouraging generally increasing density, more efficient land use patterns, better mix of housing types, all of these kinds of big overarching things you see in the housing affordability stuff and making sure that the rubber meets the road at those local that those local zoning ordinances and and i think we see certainly the regional plan and as it filters down into the dolphin county comp plan almost an advocacy role trying to work with municipalities to make them understand you know what why these types of housing solutions are ultimately beneficial to their community in the long run and to the regionals of the So, Jerry, do you have anything further?

No, that's kind of it. I don't think we have anything planned, especially talking about some of those things and kind of working, presenting zoning modifications or workshops or anything like that. certainly got to make sure that that goal, you know, I'm pretty positive using good planning practices is what we want to do in terms of our comprehensive plan. And that's certainly one thing. We certainly have to adjust certain things based on what people tell us, goals of everybody is, but I'm sure that's going to be a strong And again, it's you know we can take these we can read these sources to the water.

Oh, I understand that and then you know the Lpa program that is really, I think, where we most directly work with municipalities on whether they're whether it's on a development by development land development basis, or whether they're looking at their ordinances. You know we have a variety of work.

a lot of municipalities a lot of them are in various stages of that process or engaging so it's it's our kind of continued work I think with them and you know and I think if there if there becomes some things that are out there plan-wise and search certainly they get developed and everything else we have a different scrutiny on those plans whenever you review it there's with our regional plan in compliance with our comprehensive plan. And if it doesn't, if it's like one and a half acre lots of something systems or whatever match up to what we say is the infill and everything, then we'll note that. And then whenever they ask for funds, we'll note that as well. Maybe this doesn't.

You know really that's that's about the biggest hammers that we have to try and get them to yeah I think those of us that have been practitioners in the industry for many, many years, you know you see municipalities upper paxton township is. 15,000 square foot for a lot of our super and when you look here john kershner I talked about this lower paxton township look at locust lane to 22. Look at those neighborhoods. Those homes were built on 60-foot frontage lots. I mean, it's just that type of promoting is the only way we're going to help get out of the crisis. One of the things this legislation does, which I think is interesting, for those cities and municipalities that promote trying to ease land use policies, they will provide them increased CDBG funding.

So there's like a carrot that's going to be there and we'd love to work with you and then try to both understand and help us get out to municipalities if there is some training or outreach opportunities. We're having We're having, on Thursday, we have our regional active transportation summit where we have 60 people coming from a variety of municipalities all over the region, and a bunch of different people to get together and talk about that. I could foresee, at some point, having some sort of regional housing summit where we could have possibly a collection of kind of... kind of kicking it off, but then with PennDOT, DCNR, some municipal folks to come in and try to give a variety of perspectives aimed specifically at municipalities to try to make sure they understand both why we think this is a good thing and then the tools they have at their disposal to do those things. So I could foresee something, whether it's, I don't know, you know, whether it's during plan development or maybe after as an implementation tool. but starting to do those types of events and and you know i i'm shocked at the at the turnout we're getting for this active transportation so i think there'll be more of these it's going to be well and i think also too you know we're not sure what the funding bottleneck will break yeah but if there's money out there for people to start doing some stuff

That always gets people to the interest of what they drink in the water. Let's make it something a little tastier. Let's make it Perrier or something like that. But yeah, and I think also too, going back to the PPA conference, there were a number of local planners there. And as Andrew said, there was a large number of discussions on affordable housing. and her role in housing. One of the sessions, the main sessions was plus a person from Philadelphia and one of the Home Alliance. Was that Representative Solomon, Gerald Solomon? No, it was a person from the city of Philadelphia.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it was supposed to be the woman who was like the head of it, but she wasn't able to make it, so he was a throw-in type of thing, but he did a good job anyway.

Yeah.

And so, I mean, it was like one of the featured speeches, so it was... So, you know, and there was local people from our area who were at these conferences, and I hope that they got to hear some of this stuff, too. It's just not us beating them down saying you need to do this. I mean, they're all seeing it. Everybody knows it's a crisis and what we have to do, and it's just a matter of getting... When the NIMBYs show up, that's when everything's getting big problems.

Well, everybody knows it, but they still... practice what they have i mean because it's not just the upper end gary look at the hanovers it's the same way yeah look at the houses that are going up there oh yeah large land plots yeah i have to ask you mary where are them hundred people going but that are losing their mobile home park or whatever well they'll find something i guess Because because it's, you know, and it's a shame because that's truly affordable housing and up there, you know, they have just as many challenges as you here with the, you know, going to the PBA meetings. You know, everybody wants to build the high end housing and the people that work the areas up there up there in the area, you know, they have nowhere to go. because there's just no entry-level housing that's going in. And even up there, they fight trying to put in or expand communities, manufactured housing communities. So yeah, unfortunately, while the data center people are going to have to buy them out of their homes, because we do have laws in place, that they'll get at least 2,500 or whatever the market value of the home is. But at minimum, they'll get 2,500 to go and hopefully find apartments or homes in other communities. But they're not easy to find either. So.

Just share it with the group that, you know, this, this subject isn't going away. You are involved in leadership in whatever capacity. I hear you allowing. A lot of good information. Thanks. Yeah.

Keep beating the drum. Okay. If they're dragging to the water, if there's. If there's nothing else, it's a need a motion for adjournment.

so move i'm married second nope second by chris okay thank you all right just uh keep your eyes open for what we're gonna be yes thanks everyone thank you happy holidays everyone turkey day yeah thank you