Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Mark Benthien, ECA- yeah welcome everyone to. Mark Benthien, ECA- today's meeting start with the roll call of. Mark Benthien, ECA- Members.

Mark Benthien, ECA- hey Bob spandler here. Mark Benthien, ECA- josh first are you on yet josh Gary linker is excused Brian. Mark Benthien, ECA- Joe Robinson yeah. Mark Benthien, ECA- Mary gacy here. John Kirshner said he would not be here. John, you're not here, I take it. Chris Dietz? Present. Taryn Morgan?

Not here.

And Commissioner Hartwig? Hasn't joined us yet. As a representative from the county, then Dan Robinson. Okay. We also have listed some other people here. If you could, we'll read out the name that hasn't showed up on our list and just give us briefly which agenda item you're going to be speaking to or general comments. Dave Jennings?

Yeah, hello again. I'm here for the zoning amendment for the lower Swatara Township. I represent Dermody.

Okay, thank you. Greg Holtzman? I'm sorry.

Also here with Dermody 6B1.

Okay. Jacob Damon. I'm also here for Dermody. And Sean Delaney.

I am also here for that application.

Okay. So we have a quorum with four members.

Let's move right Down the agenda here, do we want to, after the minutes here, or treasurer's report, do we want to go to that zoning? We certainly can. Okay. Let's do it that way. We'll do the minutes and the treasurer's report, and then before we go to the other reports, just so the four gentlemen that are on there don't have to hang out, we'll skip right to the zoning amendment for Lower Sweet Arrow. Um, so we have the minutes from the September 8th meeting. Uh, everyone should have received a copy of those. We have approval. We'll accept those minutes.

So move Mary Geiske.

Thank you, Mary. Do I have a second? Second.

To Joe. Okay.

Joe got that all in favor. Say aye. Aye.

Aye.

Any nays? Hearing none motion carries. Um, the treasurer's report, get that out of the way here. That's a $4,338. So the leaf, um, money in money out for subdivisions and supermodels, uh, to accept the treasurer's report. Motion by Chris. Second. i'll second that thank you mary all in favor say aye aye aye aye no motion carries thank you let's skip right down to uh the zoning amendment uh 6b um lower sweater my going too fast no no no okay uh lower sweater uh the remote properties um Barry, is that yours?

Well, I guess just as a setup, and then we can introduce if the applicants want to identify. the uh we received the an application uh from the lower swatera township for uh rezoning of a certain piece of property the uh it's uh amendment from one parcel from educational institutional to and commercial highway to an industrial district the area is adjacent to uh and state campus, Harrisburg campus. That's the main access point. Although geographically, it's also next to the Air Force Highway connector. At that point, I think that's the general location type of thing. If the applicant would like to say something or go ahead and do that, we can certainly go ahead and hear what you would like to present and then we can move forward with the analysis from the staff is.

Yeah, thank you guys. So my name is Sean Delaney with Stevens and Lee, accompanied by my colleague Jacob Doman. David Jennings, who you met first, is with Dermody. And Greg Holtzman from BL Companies is project lead from the engineering standpoint. It's a pretty a pretty simple application a pretty simple request the property is adjacent to the highway or the airport connector highway is also adjacent to existing industrial development the idea is that we are the con contract purchaser for the main parcel where we're proposing uh two warehouse buildings And then there's property that we are not purchasing that will be retained by the university that will be between our property and University Drive. And the idea there is, A, there's a buffer, it's already wooded, also can be used or will be used for sheet flow for stormwater management purposes. So it does create a nice buffer and it does have a good existing feature. Right now, you know, through looking at the design, working with BL, working with Greg, working with the client, you know, the plan that was included, sketch plan that was included with the application shows two entrances, sort of one to the east on University and then the other one to the west on Rosedale. Partly just because of the layout and where the curve that Rosedale has, but also, from input from our neighbors through discussions with them. At this point, the plan is to restrict the access drive to the west on Rosedale to automobiles only and have any truck traffic directed to the east on University Drive. The application is consistent with the township's comprehensive plan. The properties themselves are suitable location for business and industrial needs. It is adjacent to existing industrially zoned property that is in industrial use. And so I think it's a good application and I think it's a good project. The other thing, just for some background, you can't really tell, but through our discussions with township staff and with the supervisors, you can see the next three items on the agenda are other zoning amendments. And in talking to the township, they're sort of treating the four of these not as interrelated, but kind of interrelated. And they want to address all four at the same time. They'll all be addressed at the same township planning commission meeting and same with the governing body. So not officially together, but the township is lumping them together.

Yes. Tanner, can you go to the last page of the . That should be the first one there. This is what they had mentioned. This is in your packet for the Planning Commission members. This was the first link and the development item. and it had contained all the attachments that's provided to us from the thing. This plan right here, I believe, is the plan that was identified in your discussion there. Correct. I will kind of call out. Well, I guess at this point, do you want to put it up any Planning Commission questions?

yeah before before we uh talk about it a little in depth is there any questions from the planning commission members this time no hearing none go ahead um i guess also too is there from the uh from the applicant side of things there was two other people or three other people that have anything else of interest want to add

I'm certainly interested in the written reply. So I'm interested in the, in the exchange between the representatives as relates to our concerns with traffic, et cetera. So I'm reserving any comments until I hear that exchange. All right. All right.

Thank you, Joe. I guess at this point, kind of going over, we supplied you with the draft. item for consideration for response to this as always whenever we receive a plan and this isn't in our comment but just for general planning commission notice when we receive a site plan we tend to view it with you know with caution in that, remember, in Pennsylvania, a site plan is not something that is binding on a rezoning request. Therefore, it's just something that is usually used in those illustrative purposes to show what could possibly be built, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to happen. So just as a note for that part. What we try to do is we take a look at what could be, according to the ordinance, language that's brought forward. We try to kind of incorporate that into what our recommendation might be. So we did take a look at some of this stuff, but we're kind of looking more from an overall holistic end of things. And our recommendation is that we provide comments on the proposed application because one of the main things is such driver and community focus. within that area is the Penn State Harrisburg campus. As a note in their comprehensive plan, they do note that that is a key component of what's going on and how they see themselves developing. And so any kind of comments or anything changes to that, that's what we'd like to make sure that they pay particular attention to. Because again, it's zoned as for educational purposes, And is that going to affect them in some other ways? Now, the applicant has indicated Penn State University is on board. But again, we do note that in their plan, they highlighted. Also, the comprehensive plan they have does not necessarily say that that's an area for consideration for rezoning. Again, that's always another component we always look at. Going back to some of the other things that we've always been working with in terms of talking about John Potter, highways and transportation and warehousing we looked at kind of the interaction with the neighbor road system and such, so the other parts of our comments we're talking about the. with being the fact that there's gonna be a warehouse type of thing. So particularly the first comments we're talking about University Drive gonna handle the additional traffic. Also the drive, University Drive means as a access point to alumni drive. And then also as it's a campus environment that it's right up against, we talk about as always, pedestrian access and pedestrian movement. Now, some of these things may be coming up and in the land development process. But again, those are things that as of right now, you know, that's in their zoning park is something to consider. Also, commercial traffic. One of the other economic drivers in that area, of course, is the airport. The airport has been indicating to us we see intensive growth, proposed growth for doing more air shipment traffic, particularly with the warehouses that are propping up in that area. So the question would be, how is the truck traffic going to handle getting in and out towards the airport and such, since there's real no means of connector to the to the airport connector, so they're going to have to line through some of the local streets, things like that. So again, we brought that up into the area. There's also some roads that are in the plan, as appears from our documentation we have. They will need to be vacated, and that's something that's going to be moving forward. And that's pretty much the summary of everything. I guess I've talked about a lot of it, but all those things are contained in our letter. Andrew, I don't know if there's anything we want to bring up about the traffic end of things as well.

No, I think you covered it pretty well. We know that the airport has plans for expansion of their freight capacity. Just an overall kind of look at it at the high level freight capacity and issues that are there already and that are going to continue to to involve and make sure that this is in line with this.

So our recommendation itself is, you know, not a positive, not a negative, but it's some comments that we think that the township should surely take a look at. I'm sure they're going to be. We just wanted to highlight those items that may be raised during the full discussion with the applicant. the like.

May I also throw out something? Sure, Joe. Since the application was, you know, said that it was jointly submitted or approved with Penn State, that the notion of, and our response said about Penn State potentially not having any land upon which to build and expand their own plans. Would the gentleman care to comment on that?

Yeah, this is Sean Delaney again. This is a good question. I mean, just to be clear, the current owner is Penn State. So they agree with this proposal and consented to us putting in this application. And then as far as the proximity of the campus, I mean, the immediately adjacent property is actually in industrial use. So we've sort of got a little island of institutional and institution, partially institutionally zoned land that if you look at the big picture of the campus itself, it really kind of doesn't make sense for it to be part of the campus. It's kind of extra land. And that's just my opinion on Penn State's involvement. I think they do care about the buffering. And that's part of the reason why you know, the the lot between University Drive and the lot that we have under contract is to remain in its present state, as far as the forestation, you know, it does have a decent slope to it. And it is a natural, a natural piece, natural area to use for stormwater management. So but but Penn State is on board with this.

And actually that is the closest neighbor to, like you said, it is their land that they are selling, correct?

Correct. And one thing that we've talked about with the township is if you go across the street, across University Drive, They'd like to have some additional sidewalks added there, basically some pathways of interconnectivity to keep pedestrian traffic over on the other side of the road. Not that there'd be any reason for them to be on our side of the road, but also to tie some things together for the school and for the town. Yes.

Christopher McConkey- It's no different.

Christopher McConkey- And I guess we haven't received any feedback from like, are they considering making it one way trucks only not not one way but trucks encouraged to stay, I guess, to the

at the west side yeah it's northwest yes well as we're looking at it bottom left of the plan that would be that the truck entrance and then there's a smaller entrance plan north or plan top yeah that would be automobiles only for employees so they would come in and then You know, before you even hit the proposed building, you'd be able to get into the parking areas. You turn left right there.

Oh, there we have it in, uh. For a 2nd, um, there, there it is like, like Jerry said, this is what is proposed. We have to always remember that. that can change down the road if something, you know, policies change. But there we have the zoning amendment in front of us. Dude, just that one there right now that we just talked about, even though all four, now all four of them are in that, all four are in that same zone, correct? In that same area? from lower sweater or generally I don't think they're I mean I don't put a map up on exactly wherever they all are but they they do have Sean you you talked about the other ones from lower sweater are they are they any of those have to do with this particular project itself not at all I think it's just sort of an efficiency part for the township they want to just sort of do a big block all right okay so we're there we have uh uh that plan right there in front of us the zoning amendment uh we have a motion to uh continue on with our comments sign the letter and send it on with our staff comments i'll make that motion chris thank you chris so i have a second second Second by Joe. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries.

Thank you, everybody. Really appreciate the time.

Thank you. We will go back. Back to the agenda and follow with number four, the reports. Any officers have any reports this time? I have none. Anyone?

None here.

All right. Moving on. Communications staff appears.

There's one communications. Let me find it here. This is actually a notification from the City of Harrisburg, but it was a past event, but it's just to give you an idea that there's more work that's being done. The City of Harrisburg is undertaking a project to improve pedestrian safety and overall mobility throughout the corridor of Harris Street and Cameron Street to Arsenal Boulevard. Michael Prast- project involves enhancing pedestrian facilities with visibility crosswalks aba ramps herb extensions of 15th street to improve site distance and reduce pedestrian crossing distance. A missing segment of the sidewalk will be installed along 1st Street near Arsenal Boulevard. Transit facilities will be enhancing by providing ADA-impliant stops with shelters. So there was a meeting on September 20th, but they're still taking comments if the Planning Commission would like to get more information or receive further documentation.

Right now it's just for information unless we want to get involved with it.

Like the guide in. I'm not in favor of guiding anything. Silly note.

Okay. The program progress report.

Sure, I'll take that.

Okay.

In September, from a transportation planning perspective, it was around the HATS meetings. This was an important one. We did adopt our update to our long-range plan, which we call our 2050 Regional Transportation Plan. So we'll start. That's available online. It's a 25-year long-range plan that kind of sets policies related to especially planning but it's specifically concerned with the the expenditure of federal transportation funds um so that that was a big that was very important for us that we get that kind of over the finish line that's a required document so we're in good shape there um a couple bike ped things we did uh karen dixon and i this for um COB, Bethany Collins, presented at the trails and greenways conference on our active transportation plan, then just this past week, every year penned on has a big kind of planning conference. COB, Bethany Collins, That couple people from our staff attended and we did three different presentations they're kind of show off our work so. COB, Bethany Collins, Those those were good i'm just going down through here. Oh, okay. in terms of again transportation stuff we are kind of at the beginning of what we call tip developments that's the transportation Improvement Program that's the four-year Penn dot construction project uh program um so that that will need to be adopted next next June and that will take uh take effect next October 1st so for the next that'll be in public comment then next summer um we're also getting started on um it was kind of put on hold there's a program for uh EV charging infrastructure called nevi it was put on hold by the federal administration it has since been taken off of hold so it's kind of back we are now kicking off our planning effort to determine both uh community This is technically like the 3rd round of of of this Nevi program. The 1st, 2 focused on big interstate quarters to try to get. Ideally chart charging infrastructure every 50 miles on those interstate quarters. So, our, our region is pretty taken care of for that from that perspective. So now they're doing what's called community based charging. You know, more smaller scale stuff, trying to get to communities that don't necessarily have interstate, which is a lot in our region. So, we're, we're starting a planning effort right now to identify both those priority communities and then what they call use cases. So, like. Where where within those communities would we put them into grocery stores? Large commercial areas, you know, places that are kind of small or downtowns where people don't own where they park their car. They're figuring out what kind of investments we should be making with already the infrastructure in the region. So we'll be doing some outreach for that kind of over the next few months to try to get as much input from the public and from our stakeholders as possible. The last thing I'll mention is we do have an active transportation summit. So I mentioned our active transportation plan. We're having an active transportation summit that's kind of geared towards specifically municipal officials and representatives trying to get them interested, capable, engaged in pen planning and how important that is from a variety of means so we're having kind of a most of the day event in which we'll present uh hack staff will present and then we also have people from pendot uh dcnr and a municipal kind of round table for people to talk about um kind of lessons learned from their own local planning efforts so that's november 6th you can register online there's still uh we've gotten good numbers I think we're up up above 30 already so I'm pretty happy with that but uh still plenty of room beyond that so if you're interested or you know of a municipality you've been reaching out to municipalities a lot for this uh but if you have somebody that you think we need to bug extra let us know

When they look at the charging places in smaller communities and all that, do they look at the electrical infrastructure to see if that's already in place?

They typically look at that, but most of this is based on run as a discretionary grant program and so it's we are kind of setting the priorities we won't be literally picking the places they go we're kind of setting the priorities so that when applications come in they'll be able to be evaluated with a little more local context than just what the whole state will prioritize or something like that gotcha so that's kind of looked at to some degree we kind of have to rely on the local owners or whoever is right thing uh and frankly we we don't have great data we don't have great data on that kind of electrical capacity by some kind of geographic um I wish we had that that would be interesting you're right yeah you know because I I remember our last

discussions like putting it along interstate sure that's a great idea and rest stops and all that but people are saying yeah you've got to bring that transmission line 30 miles out of the city to that location you know for that to happen and that's Well, then millions of dollars just to do that and I'm sure smaller.

Municipalities and that's the thing most of these will most likely be actually like privately wanting to be the municipalities applying for this. It'll be private landowners. Typically. But that that's what we saw at first was kind of. Gas stations and commercial property owners.

Sheets is and all that going. Hey, I'm building one in.

wherever they wanted, they wanted basically to offset the cost of their infrastructure.

Joe's got his hand up.

Joe, do you have a question? Yeah, I do. It's a minor one that I know Andy can answer under that regional transportation plan section.

Sure.

Yeah. The last two bullets just, I guess, arose by any other name is this is sweet. Is there any difference between a Silver Spring Township Discussing transportation needs versus Perry County discussing transportation planning. Is that the same thing? Once this translation needs once this translation planning, like, maybe it's the same. I'm just curious if there is a distinction. I just want to know what it is. That's all.

I wrote that when we went out to silver spring township, we met with town, we met with the township manager, discuss some what I would call specific areas of interest. So they've got kind of needs on the Carlisle pipe and some stuff that they would like to try to address. Okay. I went to the county township officials convention, which is a big meeting. They have all their elected officials. Okay. that was a much more broad conversation talking about kind of what the rtp is what tip development is that kind of stuff so that was much more conceptual excellent thank you i got it now appreciate that if i could ask a question this is dan robinson uh on the pedestrian or not pedestrian the bike pass

There's a big article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer on e-bikes with pedals that look like bikes and can go up to 50 miles an hour. And just my non-professional cursory review of the Harrisburg area and how we've cut off lanes and we have bike paths and pretty paint down and most of the people are going the wrong way. and some of them are on the sidewalks or riverfront park when they should be on the bike path that we took a lane off of Front Street to create. Is there any thought, just because it has pedals and it can go 50 miles an hour and you can be 12 years old and buy an e-bike that looks like a bike, what was wrong with the old law, I guess is where I'm going with this, where bikes stayed to the right And cars safely pass them. Why do we have to have paint everywhere that nobody uses where people, uh, aren't necessarily even riding bicycles, but they look like bicycles. And then we have to paint them because it's a high maintenance issue in a climate where it snows, rains has salt put down sometimes even these speed humps. I'm jumping around here, but the speed humps, a lot of our visitors don't know there's a speed hump because the paint has come off it on Second Street or in Lower Paxton or some of these other places. And I'm just waiting for a lawsuit when somebody bottoms out that's a lawyer and didn't know there was a speed hump there or a bike path or things like that. So that's my two-cent public comment.

There's a lot I could respond to, but I'll just say thanks for the comment.

He can come to the summit. I think there's a lot of that.

I will say I'm not aware of any new laws that have passed. In terms of V bikes, pedal cycles are technically in terms of the state code. An e-bike can't go over 20 miles an hour or it becomes a motorcycle, and it has to have pedals. That's why motorized scooters are technically not legal, because they are not pedal cycles in PA. So I don't know exactly what article you read, but anything that goes over 20 would have to be registered as a motorcycle and be treated as a vehicle in Pennsylvania. It would not be exempted from the state laws the same way a pedal cycle would be.

Yeah, I would just reference, if anybody's interested, Philadelphia Inquirer, front page, e-bikes are evolving, but the law isn't catching up. So that's just, and I guess my point, if it is a point, is we have scarce resources. We're painting lines. on roads that people aren't necessarily following if they were following the rules i think then it might be a good thing well i i i i'll leave it at this

We have dedicated bike pit infrastructure on the TIP. It is 1% of our TIP funding. We get about $100 million on the TIP. We get $1 million in federal funds on the TIP for bike pit infrastructure. That's for all bike pit infrastructure. I can't remember the last time anything went down with a painted bike lane. Most of our infrastructure is mostly, like most of our bike pit, at least the federal side, goes to things like the capillary, Greenbelt, stuff like that.

Okay. Anyone else before we move off of the program ROCS report? Moving along. The Dauphin County Local Planning Assistance Report, DLPA, spent 26 hours out and about in municipalities, Uh, last month, um. It's a good thing that that's that numbers down a little bit. Even we're taking the month of August off for vacation. I think we're reporting. Okay. September, but that's a good thing. Like I said, I was, I make it. I hope to make sure I look at that because that's our staff out there again doing night meetings and phone calls during the day. Keep up that good work and thank the staff. I know night meetings sometimes aren't my favorite, but like they're way too often. Okay.

TANNER, SPEAKING OF NIGHT MEETINGS, HE HAS TO GO TO ANOTHER ONE HERE COMING UP. SO IF TANNER HAS A LITTLE ITEM TO TALK ABOUT, THE MILLERSBURG THING.

YES, GO AHEAD. WE HAVE TINGER HERE IN OUR BOARD ROOM TODAY. TINGER, LIKE JERRY JUST SAID, YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER MEETING TO GO TO. SO GO AHEAD AND WHY DON'T WE SKIP.

JUST ONE LAST THING BEFORE THAT. OKAY. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THE LAST NUMBER IS 853. IS THAT YOU, MR. FIRST?

no it's mary geisky i got i keep getting bounced out of the zoom though i decided to dial in sorry about that no no problem mary sorry about that okay go ahead so i had tm yes do you want the plan for that um

That's up there. It's up here. The purple should be.

Yeah. I think it's

okay um but yeah beginning of september we received an application uh for a uh two lot proposed two lot subdivision in millersburg borough and upper paxton township it is the charles and margaret polk foundation they are proposing to subdivide off a just over six acre lot of land which currently sits a medical center So, with that. Going kind of going down through through some of the comments that I have. So they, they requested a waiver of preliminary plan requirements and going along with with that waiver. I think. We still, we have not received any. Justification or anything for that for. That labor, so I think that's right. We would need to. receive that from the applicant. There are two 30-foot wide utility easements that are identified on existing lot number one, which is, I mean, it's the essentially residual of the subdivision lot. So, the 2, yeah, the 2 easements that the cursor is pointing to currently those 2 easements are currently 1 is for sewer and water and 1 is for electric and telephone. Those 2 easements run across existing lot 1, but then there are no, they are not. There's no easement shown or identified through. The parcel, the 1 parcel that's kind of in between. The subdivision law and the remainder, and then it's also not shown once we get on to the proposed lot as well. So really the comment is, are there established easements through those lots? And if not, we believe utilities should be established and displayed for those lots. Next, so Building setbacks are required for our ordinance. Building setbacks are shown in the small portion of the lot that is within the township, but it's not shown for any of the lot that is located within the borough. It's noted that because the borough has more of a form-based zoning code, the setback requirements aren't necessarily It's not necessarily a set number. It's kind of sometimes based off of other buildings on that block or street. So that way it kind of matches the look. So we just kind of have it noted that you know that it it might be difficult to display the the setbacks in the borough because of because of how their zoning code setback requirements are written but we wanted to make note that in our ordinance it is required uh it's noted that sidewalks are required in all subdivisions both in uh with the county uh subdivision ordinance and also uh the township and the township's ordinance it's also required in residential and commercial areas um we're kind of looking at it is that you know they could request a waiver but what i think we'd like to see is that in lieu of requiring sidewalks maybe they could uh a lot for a pedestrian easement or something of that sort. So in the future, there's not as much hardship to put pedestrian facilities in this area. Currently, there's no sidewalks at all on Evelyn Drive or Medical Road, so there's nothing in that area now, but we feel that that would be kind of a compromise if there would be more development in this area and pedestrian facilities would be would look that to be neat. The bigger comment that we originally had was regarding Evelyn Drive. So on the plan, it is labeled as having a 50-foot right-of-way, 20-foot cartway width or pavement width. but it's not labeled as having like a T number or like a municipal roadway number. There was nothing to really say whether or not that was a public right-of-way or not. The way it's drawn on the plan would suggest that it is public, but we kind of wanted to do our due diligence to make sure that everything was kind of squared away with that in talking with the borough and the township. on PennDOT's Type 5 map for the township, it's shown having a municipal route number, and it shows on their liquid fuels map, but for in the borough, it does not show on the Type 5 map, it's not shown as a public road, and it's not shown on borough liquid fuels. So we kind of wanted to make sure that the portion in the borough, Um, and also going along with that is that this is Evelyn drive would be a existing non conforming street in the. Sense that it is a data, it would be considered a dead end street as it's currently laid out. It dead ends into the proposed lot. and also per the township ordinance it is not the cartway at the cartway width is not wide enough and so it's only a 20 uh 20 foot cartway width the township requires 20 or 24 foot a 33 foot cart so just today since i had done my review of it it talks with the pulp foundation They actually supplied us two deeds of dedication for Evelyn Drive, one for the borough, one for the township. And then they also supplied a maintenance agreement that was that was done in 1991 when the two other lots, I think they're labeled as K and L. It kind of looks like one lot, but there's actually two separate lots, the next building south of the medical center. Um, whenever those were subdivided off, there was a maintenance that's when the Evelyn drive was dedicated. And then there, this, this maintenance agreement was established between the borough, the township and at that point in time was. The Howard G Frederick estate trust. On a maintenance agreement. For Evelyn drive, uh, so, uh. Really, that kind of answered a lot of our questions, whether it was public or private, who maintains it. The way this maintenance agreement is written is that it would, it's owned by the Polk Foundation now, but it's written to reference successors to the owner at the time. Um, but I think, you know, I think in talking, I think we're still going to reach out to, um, the pulp foundation and the borough and the township, make sure this agreement is still something that everybody is in agreement with. Um, if not, I guess a new one should, you know, I would, I would feel good if a new one would be, um, you know, new one would be created. But then either this one or a new one should be noted on the plan that there is a maintenance agreement. And I also and and also that I know it should probably be put on the plan, acknowledging that if we're not going to require improvements to Evelyn Drive, that it is noted on the plan as a non-existing, non-conforming street per our subdivision ordinance. We did receive comments from Millersburg Borough Council and Planning Commission on the 29th of September. Those comments, there really wasn't anything related to subdivision. There was one comment from one of the councilmen. And they just stated that they hope the Polk Foundation will consider the economic impact of sale of the property to another nonprofit specifically as it relates to the ability of the borough to collect property taxes and impact this locate and the impact this location has on the EMS system in northern Dauphin County. And that was the only comment. There were no comments from the Planning Commission. And one last thing. So we have the application for county approval for the borough. We also conducted a review since the township decided you know has wanted to wanted to review and approve this plan as well so we conducted a review for the township um as well on the plan there is an approval block for the county uh a review block for the borough an approval block for the for the township um but we think a review block for the the county planning commission as well should be added since we are also doing a review

Thanks.

So that's pretty much all the comments I had, Jerry. I don't know if there's anything you want to clarify, add.

Yeah, I'll kind of just go back and summarize it. This plan is, uh, is for county approval. It was submitted last month for indicating it was complete. And this past month, the Tanner has been doing all the due diligence to find out, you know, a lot of the things that was raised initially when looking at the item. Since it was established last month, we have 90 days under the state code to review it, and that would carry us on to December 7th. So we actually have two more meetings in order to discuss this and or take action on before a 90-day deadline hits. And, you know, if we could talk about that some, you know, what the implications are for deemed approval. But as Tanner noted, Upper Paxton is reviewing it. They have a meeting coming up in a couple of weeks. They're going to probably officially give us their reviews on that date or close to it. Millersburg has received their chance to review it because whenever we have an approval, we like to get to hear what they like to say. We've got that. And I don't know if Chris wants to talk a little bit more about that, some of his perspective on it. But as Tanner indicated, talked about, the main concern we had was Evelyn Drive in that this subdivision is basically coming off, creating a lot of an unknown street. And because of that, if this was a normal world, that would not be allowed. You can't really do that unless you know what it is. It's got to be up to certain standards and everything. that everything is in place not just for their own their own property but also for the residents safety and everything like that so as tanner has been digging and finding a lot of these agreements that kind of clarifies a lot of that stuff uh upper packs and plows they plow all the way back uh you know it's always who plows it but they only i guess fill the potholes up till the township border and then uh So we do this maintenance agreement. We didn't know how that arrangement was made. James Heiting. But going back to you know a lot of what Tanner said, and not going to go too deep into it. But our recommendation is, we sit and wait for another month, James Heiting. because we we want to get all this stuff worked out with the app and getting the information about what they might want to do for sidewalks, if they want to do a waiver request, or if they want to just show something also get everybody's on board understanding what their responsibility is. for this road and get it on the plan. So someday, whenever they sell off this piece of property, they don't go looking around trying to find it. We've got it now. That's kind of one of our fiduciary responsibilities for this. So we think we could wait a month and still get the result we need, not necessarily too far back, push them back in terms of their approval and moving them forward.

jerry would you um forward the uh the maintenance agreement for the borough to the borough manager just to make sure that uh i i don't ever recall having talked about we just found it responsibility in this area so

The lady that I have been communicating with, with the Pulp Foundation, she's actually the one that had found it and sent it to us. So yes, we can, we'll certainly forward that. And like I said, that was, it was done back in, in 91. So I'm sure that, you know, whoever was on Borough Council back then is probably not anymore.

Right.

Chris?

I'm not, I don't go that far back.

So our recommendation is for, as a tabling, not taking action on it, but we did want you to know what's all going on so that whenever next month's meeting comes up, we can certainly just move it on. That's our intention for next month, to have it all buttoned up and peddled, ready to go for you to take action on. If there's any questions on it too, we'll be

Is there any questions before I ask for a motion for tabling it?

You said you're going back and you're asking about the utility easements through that more rectangular piece, right?

Correct.

Yes. Okay. I think I'm good.

Thank you. So, Do we have a motion to table this till our next meeting till we get some more definite answers from the borough, the township, from the county? Basically, the main part is the Evelyn Drive. What's going to happen there? Do I have a motion to table it?

Motion.

Thank you, Joe. Do I have a second? I'll second that. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays?

I'm going to abstain. Okay.

We'll note that.

And I'm an aye if that didn't come through.

We got you, Mary. Thank you. Motion carries.

Thank you. There's one more item that Tanner, would you want to give a quick update on?

Yes. And Chris, if I miss say anything here, please correct me. This is for kind of an update on Tanner's run, ironically. And this was an update that I received at the Planning Commission meeting from what i understand the the dep permit has been approved there has been approval obtained from the army corps of engineers and this is relating to the work that's being done on what's considered the clinger property at the south end of the run where we've there's been um the major uh issues with with uh this is that that apartment the apartment yes yep um So, from my understanding at this point, at this point, they're kind of waiting on the contractor. They were determining any extra materials needed and the cost for that materials, I believe. a request was sent to Upper Paxton Township to see if they would assist with the extra material costs, which I think at that point was estimated around 10 grand. And that they're trying to get things moving along as soon as possible. From my understanding, the permit expires on October 27th or sometime in and around the end of October. So with that, Chris, I don't know if there's anything different or to add to that.

I think that's pretty good. We are, yes, trying to work with the contractor to establish the dates of when they'll do the work. And we don't have a final quote yet for the additional materials that you mentioned. But there was a site visit on Friday with them just to walk through everything once again. So I anticipate that this week, hopefully, we'll get the dates squared away. And then we've got a couple of weeks to get the work done. So hopefully, it doesn't pour and rain for two weeks straight. We've got some decent weather to do the work in.

Because I remember the meeting we had up there, they were talking about the owner wanted it all fenced in so kids or whatever wouldn't go in that construction site. So that's all been taken care of.

Yeah, I think, and again, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that the way, from what I understand, the contractor or whoever is going to kind of put it like that more in,

people more or less feel the property owner too okay correct all right chris do you know if they uh they upper pack some five for a gaming grant i do not know okay thank you for that update i know that's a a project that uh for up there needs to hurry up but it just seems like the logistics are always you know, one step behind.

It certainly is a challenge. No doubt, Chris, no doubt.

Okay, Tanner, is there anything else? Yep, that would be it. Okay, well, thank you for coming to the meeting and have fun in your next one. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

moving right along there uh the old business with subdivision land developments um we did uh number two already on their uh williams township okay this one won't take as long this one is certainly a smaller project it's a combination of two lots actually it's not a combination of two lots it's a small piece of property located right on the uh 209 that one person's buying uh probably about five acres from another one and they're adding it together to the other ones. So they're totally at 7.85 acres and they're 1.85 acres of that is sliding pants, so they're moving in parcel. The provision is a county approval. We have sent it to Williams Township. They have not gotten back to us with any comments yet, but I typically don't get too many things from them whenever we do submit, so we'll have a part on there. But we're going to recommend that we take action tonight because even wrong with it uh the first thing is is the title block is wrong it says Williams it doesn't have Williams Township it actually has Williamstown Township which is you know not quite right there also don't show any uh easements on on the plan which is required to do that and then also there's a because they're not building on it there's a requirement to have a non-building waiver form that's by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection that has to be that they've applied for. Whenever we have situations like this, our ordinance does have a section, which is a little bit different. It's sort of a simplified thing, and it's called, if you wanna get tired one night and really need something boring to sleep, get you to sleep, provisions for saldo codes, and it's a lot add on. So this is certainly much easier. So therefore it was guided against that. So you asked why there's no sidewalks. There's no, you know, a lot of these other things we typically see. of lines of sitting lots that are already in place so so with that that's our recommendation is for the planning commission to approve it uh subject to those conditions that i've just mentioned and then sending it off to to the conscience to uh meet those or to uh to the applicant to meet those conditions and then uh if that's done then it'll be finally approved when it comes in to be signed okay we have a motion for the williams township

So moved, Mary Gajski.

Second. And a second by Joe. Joe, thank you, Joe. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

Ace? Motion carries, thank you. We'll move right down to number six, new business, subdivision land development matters. There are 11 plans. in front of us didn't really see any was there anything jerry that was out sticking out there to

um no i think if you just look at the plans there's some bigger plans for market street and for uh north front street for office conversions within the city of harrisburg to show some larger numbers uh those are familiar with the in west hannah where there's a briar creek project is finishing out its fourth phase uh and that's pretty much it there's a six thousand Pretty, uh, pretty straightforward.

Is there any plan that any particular talk about? I don't have any, I'm sorry. Mary says she's good. Oh, you're good. Very. Thank you. Um, do I have a motion to accept all level plans?

Well, don't move.

I'll give it to Mary.

Mary, in a second?

Yep.

Chris? Thank you.

All in favor, say aye.

Aye. Aye.

Any nays? Hearing none, all 11 plans. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. That takes us to zoning amendments. Uh, we already did number one, um, the lower packs, lower sweat air. I'm sorry. Then we're back to the lot with the Penn state campus that gives us, uh, Jared, you want to do, uh, we'll do them all together. Let's do them all together. Let's do the three lower sweat arrows individually.

um they will i want to talk to them because as uh the applicant had indicated that some of these things are being done by the township themselves and they're cleaning up some of their project uh and that's the first one the first one is there's a split zone piece of property it's uh uh eight draw aip drive and it's uh they're looking to uh kind of arson of the property is already in that and uh instead of having an industrial park limited to industrial parks. Our recommendation, we support the change. Okay.

Do you want us to vote on them separately?

Yeah, I'm going to do that. Okay. Do I have a motion to accept the industrial park limited for Sweatera Township?

Motion. So moved.

Motion made by Chris, second by Mary. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Mark Warren, I mean ace hearing none motion carries.

uh lower swire again the middletown area school district campus yes again this is another one that's kind of being put forward by the township uh they're looking to uh from residential suburban to educational institution uh they have they have gone and done some several lock consolidations over the past and uh some of the old pieces of lots are not necessarily uh matching up to what you know, the overall educational institution will use. So it's all part of a kind of a campus area, and it's again, the idea is to try and consolidate it. The only concern we have is because that area is only that zone of educational institutional in that area. We are kind of asking them to coordinate with their solicitor to make sure it's not spot zoning. But on principle, we're good. So we're recommending approval with that one comment.

OK. We have a motion for the Middletown Area School District from the lower . Motion for approval with the one comment. I'll make that a motion. Do I have a second?

Second. Second.

I'll give that to Joe. OK. Thank you. All in favor, say aye.

All right. Hi.

Hi. Any names? Hearing none, motion carries. Moving right along. Lower sweater again. Industrial to commercial highway.

Right. There's a three and a half acre parcel lot that kind of was subdivided off and it's bordered by this commercial highway district, but before it was industrial or is currently industrial. It kind of matches up. taking it away from industrial to commercial highway, which is more functional use of that piece of property on the corner of Eisenhower and Polo Ward, and they off-ramp 283. So having it commercial makes sense, and we're recommending approval.

Okay. Do we have a motion for Lower Stair Industrial to Commercial Highway?

Motion.

Motion by me, by Chris. Do I have a second? I'll second that. I'll move. Okay. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any nays? Hearing none, motion carries. That takes us to Gratsboro.

Okay, this one is kind of trying to get ahead of some of the new concepts or the things that are happening in the areas, particularly happening with data centers. They're looking at the new definition related to it. And it also for making it an additional use within the industrial district. We applaud them for how they're looking forward to try and take care of some of the major issues that they're facing, not just everybody in Dauphin County, but also throughout Pennsylvania. I think what they have done is they've tried to work together and cobbled a number of different ordinances together. it has some mixed success with how they did it. So what we're proposing to them, we don't have a problem with them doing it, but we have a problem with how they're executing it, so to speak. TAB, Mark McIntyre, we're we're not recommending we're actually saying we're not recommend we're we're advising that they do not pass this ordinance because it just has too many loose and so many things where that might end up not getting what they want, because there's definition flaws with whether or not they have. TAB, Mark McIntyre, The. the data mining they have excluded out and it should probably be there or otherwise defined. They're also making an exclusionary zoning cage so you can't even have it. So if someone came and had a challenge to it, they could just get it anywhere and it wouldn't achieve the purpose of what they're looking to do. And then we found a lot of hydrographic language issues because, again, we think the number of them together to try to put this into place. So we think that the as it stands there's too many consistencies in New York. So not to say that we're against them doing something. We're against them doing this.

In fact, we're actively engaging with a couple, I know, through Commissioner Hartwick is is talking a little more than two we're cut we're talking to Loudoun County from two different angles but from a staff County planning staff and also from a kind of an elected officials perspective so I had expect us to have some you know we already have our fact sheet guns on data centers to give you you know just enough information to sound like you know what you're talking about But we will, I think that will keep evolving and we'll have, if not a model ordinance, a better handle on where we want to be in a few months.

And I think just in summary, our last paragraph there kind of ties a lot of that up. Kind of a couple sentences. And the commission does agree with the overall intent to regulate data center as appropriate. We recommend that they review our completed data centers fact sheet, which is on our toolkit. And we're willing to work with the borrower and solicitor's office to discuss thoughts and develop language that we believe would be beneficial. So we're willing to reach out to them and advise them so that they have a little bit better approach to this problem or this issue. That's our recommendation, is not to be a negative guy, but to be a... Let's not do it this way.

All righty. We have a motion to accept what we just heard on not... It says not recommended, but to work with them and help them draft a little better language. motion chris thank you chris mary seconded by mary all in favor say aye aye aye any nays motion carries so okay that takes us to government reviews

Yeah, Andrew, do you want to take these couple of top ones?

I'll take the first two. The first one is Lower Paxson. Do I have the letters in here? I have a few of them. I mean, I just didn't put them all. I got them. The first one is at the intersection of Jonestown Road and Havk and Prince, kind of that weird five-point intersection. The township is, the Lower Pax township is looking at Pretty major improvement that would actually close off the help road. Portion from Jonestown road, so it may get a much more traditional intersection. Only 4 lines have some multimodal improvements. They already have. Funding for a sidewalk that goes from Prince street. or along print street the whole way from the from Johnstown Road to Township building. You can connect into the rest of the neighborhood there. So this would complement that. I believe they already got funding for this a few years ago. I think they got partial fund. So this is a good project. That's a if anybody lives in my I live right around there. That's That intersection is, uh, is an issue and I'm sure has been for decades. Um, so that's been clean that up and then the subsequent township 1 is is a bunch of what I would call smaller. Smaller, uh. Sidewalk connections and pedestrian connections that came out of it. They did a township. Active transportation plan, so this is coming out of that. And we fully support both of those.

We might as well do the third one. The Upper Paxson Township Landis Farm conservation easement.

Yeah, this really is not necessarily an action of pluses and minus or it's just more saying that we recognize we got a notification. There's a parcel of 141 acres farm located at 265 Landisburg Drive, Millersburg within Upper Paxson Township. The owner has made a formal to the conservation district subdivide two acres off the lot for having a separate lot for a dwelling unit. So the question comes to it's in an ag security district so we are given that right under the regulations of the planning law and also under their conservation districts and the regulations so we only have a couple things we said would make sure that the parcel has a particular access of course we we noted that that's a big thing for us with the millersburg one we just looked at it has a dirt road now make sure that it's when it's divided off otherwise from an agricultural standpoint we have no other comments other than make sure that if whatever is next it's all farming regulations of right to farm on the acre so those are our three things that we have okay we have a motion to accept the staff recommendations on all three of those the lower packs

Eric by Mary, do I have a second? Second. Second by Joe Robinson. Thank you, Joe. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any nays?

Hearing none. Cherry, is that parcel number somewhere in the packet?

No, I'll give it to you though. You ready? Yep. It's 65. 019-008. All right.

Thank you.

The address itself is 265 Landisburg Drive.

Cool. Thank you.

Additional items. Looks like our future meetings will be a new conference room.

HAB-Juliette Boone, We yes, hopefully we're the construction is mostly almost all done now we're doing we have we're coordinating on the it. HAB-Juliette Boone, That goes but that's also coordinating between. TAB, Our vendor dolphin county it and our construction people, so I hope it doesn't take a month for that to happen, but I. TAB, Mark McIntyre, Not on your breath. TAB, Mark McIntyre, will be back in touch we'll make it clear. TAB, Mark McIntyre, later, whether we're. um going to be here or i mean well frankly i think you're the only one it might matter to yeah well they may want to come and see it's to come see the new office right i mean you know so so but yeah that is over so we're I'm very excited for being able to have HATS meetings and just being able to have meetings in our office with more than...

So your HATS meetings will be there, too?

Yeah, we'll have... I mean, it's... It's bigger than this room, right? Well, it's as wide as this room, but it's probably as long.

If anybody remembers who was able to come to this DCI party in retirement... Yeah, it's two-thirds of that room, basically.

will anna confirm let us know then where we're meeting absolutely make sure it's clear in the meeting package okay all right and that's the room so yeah yeah that's what it's strawberry square yeah yeah it's a strawberry square yeah it's coming in off market street yep i remember now because i came to the farewell party yeah all right great okay we got tanner's run update which we are already done

And it looks like we need a little update on our comp plan.

Yeah, I'll make this very, very quick and what I'll do is I'll send this out to everyone so they see it. But we have put in two grant applications in order to do the conference plan. As you know, the plan was last done in 2017 and under the MPC we have to Approve it every 10 years or redo it. And so we're starting the process because it can be done in 2 days. So, the estimated timeframe is running from January to to mid July of 27. and January 26 to July 27 to shoot for a summer approval of the plan. However, the first six months will be outreach, getting everyone's opinions and such. So we're putting together the plan to plan on getting the people's information. So if you do know of anything in the springtime, any community outreach events or any community functions and such that we might be able to do some sort of data gathering about what's important to the community, to the county, that'd be great. Also gonna reach out to all the municipalities to get some feedback from them or put a survey together to have the municipalities put in their newsletters or whatever else they might be able to do so we can get a fair amount of feedback on that. The two grant applications were for one was to the gaming grant for $150,000, and the other one was to DCD, their planning assistance program. So we're looking forward to hopefully get some money out of that. Otherwise, the commissioners are aware that we have to do this. So some funding will be coming our way in some form or fashion, we believe. uh we're going to be doing against house we're not looking at consultants we did it in house the last time and we think we have the capabilities and experience to do it in house again so anything else standard nope I got one of those same but it's not tough okay real quick what what type of events do you normally go to with this Uh, well, if someone has, like, well, we've gone to things like the grass fair, or if there's been what was some of the, like, some 400 days there's been events, a lot of the community events.

We typically done that for transportation stuff, but that was typically happening in the summer and fall. Right? So some of the timeline won't exactly line up. So. You know, I think we'd look at, like, some of the cog meetings and writing out in front of stakeholders as much as the public, right?

If there's any, like, we'll probably have some sort of thing and. Down in strawberries, we might have an open. house up at the conservation district. If there's no fairs or there's no type of things, then we have to create something.

Like if the Realtors Association would have a big meeting, that's something you would go to. Exactly right.

We're going to start snipping those things out because if you know of any, that it's a spring event, please let us know.

Even if it's just a meeting with a bunch of stakeholder-type people that we could get to, you know, try not to do it all through social media, but social media is how this stuff happens. So getting other people's networks and kind of spreading our tentacles out into, you know, throughout as much as possible is typically how this works the best.

Okay. Yeah, I was just wondering. That's why I was asking.

Yeah. Just keep your eyes open and let us know because we're going to start trying to put together their plans to do that.

And this would be anywhere with Dauphin and Perry, right?

No, just Dauphin. It's a Dauphin.

Oh, just Dauphin. Okay.

This is a Dauphin County, total Dauphin County initiative.

Okay. All right.

So, but now my thing and not to confuse you. But we did just we did just launch our, our regional growth management plan. Survey that is for dolphin and Perry counties. Um. We developed what we call a visual preference survey. This is on our webpage under regional. You can get to it right here, the regional growth management tab. That brings you right to this page and then click on any of these links or hit the QR code. That brings you to what we call our visual preference survey. There's a series of 40 images and all we're asking is How much do you like the negative three to positive three? What kind of things do you want to see in the community? So it's a mostly kind of development patterns. That's really what we're going for. So kind of like types of housing, transportation facilities, densities, those types of things. So there's a bunch of images on this. I will scroll through all of them. Try not to Get to the bottom and then there's just a couple very brief kind of open. So. We'd certainly love for you guys to take it any. Any networks or anything that you guys can push this out through. We will start. putting it on our social media, you're certainly more than welcome to share, repost whatever we post on our Twitter and Facebook, and I guess LinkedIn. I think that's our three big ones. And if you have an idea for somewhere that we can, you know, even if it's a, we don't want to give an in depth presentation on this quite yet. But even if you have a meeting or something that we can come and give a quick 5 minute overview, what the. Is what we're looking for from this survey that we're, we're all ears. So. Keep us in mind on that too.

So and this one is, now does this one include Cumberland?

This does not include Cumberland.

Okay, just Dauphin and Perry.

Perry only. Yeah.

If I, because I, I took that already.

If there's people, yeah, Mary, you're on the regional commission. So you've seen. If there's people in Cumberland, we certainly wouldn't like, not want to hear from them. But we aren't going to be like, reaching out to to Cumberland county, like municipalities or anything like that to get there. So that that's all I had.

Okay.

Sorry.

Anything else before we ask for adjournment? Next meeting Monday, November 3rd. Location to be determined.

Positive and say our analysis.

In the strawberry square building.

Okay. They have that funky building.

Yeah.

Okay. You have a motion for adjournment.

motion everyone everyone all right meeting adjourns thank you bye thank you take care