Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Roll call, folks. Jerry, would you please? Yes. We're going to do roll call. And then after that, we're going to have a little moment of silence to reflect on Taryn Morgan, the now departed member of our commission. So let's go through roll call. Okay. Josh first. Here. Gary Lankard.

Can't hear you, Gary, but we can see you. How about now? We can hear you. Joe Robinson. Lisa Schaffer.

Here.

Chris Dietz. Present. Mary Gajski. She may show up. John Kirshner.

Here.

Brian Pomeroy said he wouldn't make it. Robert Spandler. Okay. And Mr. Commissioner Harwick. Okay. We have a quorum. One, two, three, four, five. We have a quorum.

Okay, folks, as most of you, or probably all of you know, our commission member, Taryn Morgan, had a very horrible end, and we would like to have just a moment of silence to contemplate her and the circumstances that led to her departure from this world. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to take 15 seconds and we can think about these things. Say hello or goodbye to our friend on her spirit journey. Okay, thank you very much. Minutes. That's before we do that. Oh, you want me to do that now? Okay. I just want to say Jerry did not make any mistakes on the agenda. This is all my fault. No. And we have a whole bunch of things that we have to add. On the reports, number four, we have to add Swatara Township. They made a mistake. They did not file something properly that had been filed properly before. And anyone that ever thought that real estate was simple, well, this Swatara Township thing will put that to rest. Number two, we have an email from a Ms. Dixon that we've got to incorporate. It's in the package towards the end, but it's not on our, yeah, from Karen Dixon.

Karen is giving a notice from a resident that she received regarding the one agenda item.

The one agenda item. Okay. So that's going to be on number four. On new business, number six, we're going to add East Hanover. they have a uh that's not the sewer module that is the sewer module uh a plan that we need to discuss in uh c that will be in c and millersburg old business millersburg borough we are not going to discuss five uh millersburg borough we're going to take that off for right now because there's been some delay in all of the paperwork timing back and forth.

Did I get it all right, Jerry? That's correct. So just ask for a vote on accepting those changes. Right.

Thank you. All right. So I need to have a motion, a second, and then we'll call a vote on making these changes to the agenda so that these items are on the record. Do I have a motion to approve? Move, so moved. Yes, Chris.

Sorry about that. I can second.

no we have okay either way this is the motion and john joe is the second joe's the second thank you thank you gentlemen uh anyone opposed all in favor please say aye aye motion passes thank you very much now we go to minutes uh you have the minutes in the packet If you have any questions, now is the time to raise them. Any issues or edits, now is the time to raise them.

This is Lisa. I don't know that it matters a whole lot, but just noting the misspelling of my last name and sometimes in multiple different ways throughout. I'm very used to it, so it doesn't bother me if it stays that way, but if you need it for recording purposes, just wanted to point that out.

Right. And how exactly is it supposed to be spelled? Not for Jerry's benefit.

S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R. One F, not two. One F and there's an E in there. Yeah.

Okay, thank you. We apologize, Lisa.

Like I said, I completely understand.

We will misspell it much more creatively next month.

I look forward to it.

Okay, thank you.

Sorry about that.

Okay, do we have a hearing? No comments other than Lisa asking that we beg, please spell her name correctly for the umpteenth time. No questions, no other comments, and it's on the minutes. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes? Kirsten or so moves. Thank you, John. Do we have a second?

Ms. Lisa, I'll second.

Thank you, Lisa. Okay. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Ayes carry it. The minutes are approved with the Very large, full, bold, correct spelling of Lisa Schaffer's last name. One F and an E. All right. F and an E. F and an E. Treasurer's report.

Pretty light this month. It's a total of $1,974. Money made out to Dauphin County to be transferred to Tri-County for application fees.

Okay. Any questions? about the treasurer's report hearing no questions we have a motion to approve the payment of expenses motion chris thank you chris we have a second first or second first or seconds all those in favor please say aye aye any opposition motion carries treas report is recorded as payment expenses approved by the commission

Number four, reports, report of officers.

Do we have any officers who have anything to say? Okay, thank you. Hearing none, we go to 4B, communications and staff reports. Jerry and Andrew, this is your moment to shine.

The communications we mentioned in changing the agenda, we had a request from Sotera Township. The letter was included in your packet. In essence, they had a plan that was approved a number of years ago. There was a mistake made in terms of the recording of it, in which a lot line was off due to it. allowance for a setback uh change so over the years it was wrong so in order to modify it they're going to go in administratively it's just no there's no action on our part it just needs to be acknowledged and by doing this as part of our meeting it's acknowledging that that's happening So they'll go in and get that rectified.

Do we need to take a vote on that, Jerry, or just having discussed it here as part of our...

It'll make it into the minutes and we'll have it noted unless there is any concern by any of the commission members.

Any concerns about this? They call it a Scrivener's error. I give Swatera Township an A plus for like a $12 word. You don't hear the word Scrivener very often. So whoever wrote, was that someone I don't recognize?

Zach, he's there.

Yeah, we have to send him an email, just a gold star for the day. Scrivener. Okay. That's an unusual word. Okay, let's keep going here, Jerry.

The second one was South Hanover. A resident sent us an email requesting, you know, do scrutiny on the proposed amendment to the zoning ordinance that was sent to us today. That was in today's mail. So it wasn't in Friday's, but it was in today's. I think, again, just as a note of record that we received it, no other note, nothing else. And we'll discuss that later on when we get to that, our comments. Which are forthcoming, but not yet due. It's correct. It's under item 6B. Right.

Okay. Anything else? Communication staff reports. Nothing else. Program progress report.

I'll take that. May was our transportation improvement program, or what I typically call the TIP. um public comment period we're in the update process right now that officially ended actually 12 minutes ago at 4 p.m today uh we had a handful of public uh comments come in towards the end um so we will be providing responses to those the tip will then go to the hats uh committees that meet uh next friday and then two fridays after that for official adoption And then we'll move forward sending it to PennDOT and all that good stuff. A few other things we did get and are continuing to kind of make headway. I just got the finalized grant agreement today for our SS4A supplemental safety planning, which when combined with the state match is going to give us a half a million dollars for supplemental safety planning. We'll be able to do two pretty significant projects, or at least the planning for two significant projects here in Dauphin County. One will be looking at the Walnut Street, State Street corridor to kind of get in line for what that's going to look like post Interstate 83 construction. And the other one is to investigate Loudermilk Road and 743, that intersection. Evaluate the potential for a roundabout, but identify some shorter-term improvements there, too, to make it a little safer. Other things... Oh, we had our annual luncheon. I guess I'll mention that. Thanks to everybody who attended. It went very well. Again, our speaker was Jill Whitcomb, the DEP Deputy Secretary for Water Programs. So that went pretty well. Jerry, do you have anything to add here from a county perspective?

no i think the only thing is uh from uh we did uh that's more of a regional perspective we have completed the draft of the uh model ordinance for data centers uh we have been getting some comments back from different people about different things uh particularly on the noise i received a call the other day so we're we're constantly looking at this thing in order to make sure it matches up as we get more information so uh I do know that people are looking at it and have received it. It's being scrutinized for good or bad.

We're also keeping the The toolkit article on data centers up today, too, is kind of a sister document so that that's much more just informational and giving and providing links to other other resources. The state just released some information and guidance on data centers. So we're going to incorporate that. I'm not sure if that happened yet, but that is happening very soon. So, you know, stuff. Trying to keep up to date with all the data center stuff, it seems like there's more guidance and more changes, you know, by the week. So, but we're doing as best we can to stay on top of everything.

It's hard. I mean, this reminds me, the data center thing reminds me of the natural gas boom in 2005, 6, 7, 8. You know, it's like, you know, it's like a Wild West frontier mentality. People are running all over the place, spending crazy money on these properties. And then only later are they figuring out whether it actually will work. Forget the zoning. You know, it's just wild. Okay.

I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, you mentioned about, you said the Walnut and State Street corridors. Could you just say a little bit? I probably missed the bubble on that. Like, what hundred blocks are we talking about? And what are the plans? You say the improvement on the Walnut and State Street corridors?

So in our... In our regional safety action plan, we identified a couple of what we called priority intersections. The one intersection was at, I believe it's at 27th. It's just up the hill from Progress. in Petbrook. But the concept would be a reallocation of some lanes. So we wouldn't be able to do it just at that intersection. It would have to be a more corridor approach. So we're likely going to be looking at and evaluating traffic capacity requirements, safety needs, all this stuff from that light at Progress Avenue the whole way probably to 13th Street. I mean, it'll officially stop at 20th Street, right there at Parkway Boulevard. But then we'll be doing some additional analysis down onto State Street. We don't want to touch the State Street thing because we don't want to stir up emotions and politics of what happened there. But we're just trying to... We're just trying to analyze and do all the numbers and data crunching to know what we need through that corridor once all of the 83 work is done. So we're, you know, we've got 10 years until that happens. So now's the time to do the planning.

Okay. All right. Good. Thank you for that clarification. And then on what's on our screen, did we go over that yet? I just had one question about one item.

I mean, that's the progress report. That's what I picked a couple things off of. Do you have a question of something on here?

Yeah, the WITF radio interview. What has been, I'm just curious, what's the prevailing thought these days? You said we're pinned out on deer crossings, et cetera. I presume because there's so many deer getting killed, roadkill. So what were the crux of that interview?

That was actually Karen Dixon from our staff was interviewed on WITF about, wildlife safety i mean typically pendot is coming out of that the perspective i i don't want to speak for pendot i think they're more concerned about human lives being jeopardized by crashes right in which in which wildlife is involved i'm not sure they're too worried specifically directly about the deer themselves um but try trying to incorporate some of these wildlife crossing you know i don't think you're ever going to see like the dedicated bridges they have out west in places. I don't think you're ever gonna see that here. It's more taking advantage of culverts and kind of existing infrastructure, fencing, pretty simple stuff, but incorporating more elements into existing projects. But that's really Karen Dixon, one of our staff planners, that's kind of one of her many passions.

Right, right.

If you need her, ask her about it, and you will find out more than you know about that subject.

She also has a cookbook she's working on for roadkill. Okay. Are we done here, gentlemen? Thank you, Joseph, for your question and good natured laugh. I appreciate that. Okay. Where are we? LPA reports.

Pretty much standard. We have been out quite a bit. If you take a look, there has been some discussions from almost everybody that seems to have some sort of thing about the data center. So we've been talking to a lot of people about that.

I would just like to point out to people, when you look at the LPA, that's the local planning assistance report, this involves Jerry, sometimes Andrew, Karen, other people from the staff here. not going home at the end of the day, but going to East Succotash, Dauphin County, in places that up north in Dauphin County, they don't even know that they are in Dauphin County, and talking about planning issues and road issues. And it's something our staff do, I wouldn't say selflessly, but there's not a lot of people I couldn't do it, or who would do it. We have a very dedicated staff here who do a great job. And this LPA report is really a testimony to people putting in more time than they are paid for. I just have to say that.

Thanks, Josh.

Yep. Okay. Committees. Any committee reports? We have no committee reports. Okay. Number five. Old business, we go right to old business that we're not doing, Millersburg.

Correct. But if there's questions, I will answer.

Okay. Do we have any questions for Jerry about what we're not doing with Millersburg Borough?

Do we anticipate it coming back next month?

Yes, almost. Yeah, I think I will just answer that easily that we have been receiving the information. Some of it has been dribbling in. And I think the last thing we needed was today from their engineer but otherwise we might have been able to but it seems like next month will be the time to to okay thank you and we're okay on our timing for the 90 days timing timing yeah are we good yeah we're good uh the 90 days started last month uh so we're only 30 days in if we're counting their unsigned letter as official No, well, it's everything is we accepted the application last month. So what that started the time clock. So under the MPC, we have 90 days. OK, next month's meeting will be halfway through.

OK. All right. Very good. OK. Any other questions? Hearing none, we go to new business. Subdivision and land development matters. Number one, we have to ratify staff comments on nine plans. Nine plans. Do we have any questions? Any of these plans catch anybody's eye? Usually Gary Lenker or John Kirshner are all over these things and have many incisive questions and points of order, but I'm not hearing.

Other than there's a major solar plan up north, but other than that, they were all pretty straightforward plans.

There is a major solar plan that's the Halifax that Jackson Township won.

Is that this? Let's see. Sure it is.

Yeah, that's it.

Wow, that's quite substantial.

Yeah, I think the weather people call that a hail target. Okay. Well, that's substantial.

Yeah, they pretty much, even though it's in both Halifax and Jackson Township, they're pretty much staying out of Jackson Township. Everything's supposed to be in the developments in Halifax and Jackson.

Okay. Any questions? Any points of order? Hearing nothing. Okay. We have staff comments that we have to ratify. If everyone's happy, can we please have a motion to ratify the staff comments on these nine plans?

Yeah, Bob's been moved.

Yeah. Okay. Bob has made the motion to be a second. It sounded like Mary Gieske.

Yes, I'll second.

Okay. All right, we have a motion to approve a second. And I'm going to call the vote. All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposition? Hearing none, motion passes. Your staff comments have been ratified. Okay, now we go to 6B, zoning amendments.

Yeah, there's only the one as proposed. As I mentioned before, a lot of these municipalities are starting to look at and adopt different data center regulations. As a note, part of the reason to do that is in case a data center starts coming to their community and they don't have regulations specifically, a number of places have been kind of getting caught behind by If you don't have regulations and you don't know where to put them, they can go anywhere. So therefore, a lot of these communities are looking to do something in order to provide as much protection as they can from a regulatory standpoint.

A poorly planned facility. Not that we have any opinions or biases about these uses.

so what we end up having here with the uh and uh passed an ordinance with the regulations and also with a location type of thing uh they have a creating an overlay district which in essence for those of you who are familiar with it i've Those who don't, an overlay is not necessarily a zoning district per se, but it's actually above and beyond. The regulations underneath still carry force, but there's like an extra overlay on top of it with additional provisions. So that's why they kind of call it an overlay. In this case, they have an area that's around the quarry. That's their industrial district, but there's also some mixed-use residential within it. But again, that's kind of where their industrial uses are defined within the township, and that's where they're looking to do it. They also have a lot of provisions above and beyond that are specific to data centers, such as setbacks and yard areas and heights requirements. buffer screenings, noise restrictions, things like that that you typically see with normal zoning regulations on data centers. In essence, we found our recommendation was pretty well placed in the one We have a three-page comment letter. Our recommendation on staff level is we believe it's a good ordinance. However, we feel that there are some things that may need to be looked at. And I'll just, to be honest, I'll read it. While recommending for adoption, several issues should be resolved prior to enactment to reduce legal administrative risks. Those include inconsistencies and minimum acreage requirements. clarification of the overlays relationships in underlying districts and alignment of buffer performance standards and emergency management provisions including improvements to the pencil or including compliance with the Pennsylvania right to know law so there are some things that we just think that they need to clarify and make a little bit more consistent but otherwise the regulations so it helps manage these facilities.

Good plan. Because they cover a lot of ground and they use a lot of resources, right? Correct.

Correct. And a lot of the terms of the resources they use a lot of times aren't traditionally managed by a typical planning function that we have a lot of those agencies above and beyond in the hierarchy such as the water and the noise not so much noise but the energy those are other regulatory issues that municipalities do not have total control over right

Okay, so any other questions for Jerry or Andrew about the South Hanover Township Data Center ordinance? Okay, hearing none, we'd like to have a motion to approve the staff recommendations and comments. Can I get a motion to approve? So moved. Thank you, Joseph. Second. We have a second. Chris. Chris, thank you, Chris. Okay, we've got a motion to approve. A second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay, any opposition? Hearing none, the motion passes. Thank you very much. Okay, now intergovernmental reviews. We are 6C on our Agenda, right? The only thing is do you want to handle the oh right East Hanover sewer module? Yes, let's put the East Hanover sewer module, which we discussed in the beginning Of the meeting up front Jerry go ahead.

Yeah, this is a simple one lot Combination of two lots within East Hanover which they're looking to eventually build a house on and it's just outside of their service area and a fun lot septic type of thing so they need to fill out a sewer module exemption and we found no real issues with it okay thank you can we include that with any others uh you can yeah okay so i'm going to take a vote on everything that we're doing here uh

Okay.

Intergovernmental, yeah, keep going. Okay, then the next one is High Spire Borough. They're looking to seeking a PA Department of Community Economic Development Greenway Trails and Recreation grant to upgrade existing park facilities and create additional accessible connectivity at High Spire Memorial Park located on Lumber Street within High Spire Borough. the seeking the money here, but if I remember correctly, it's a couple hundred thousand dollars. The next one is Penbrook Borough is also looking to improve a park through the same program. It's to do Penbrook Community Park. It's on Bois Street. It's looking to improve safety, accessibility, sustainability. And they're going to install an ADA compliant parking spaces, pathways, picnic area, and playground equipment. as well as replace the existing basketball courts again if i don't have funds here but i think it's i do do have that one here it's not costing us anything we're just giving our imprimatur correct these applications have to go and ask the county planning agency who's controlled the comprehensive plan which is us if we find it in compliance with our ordinances and yes we do they're asking for a $250,000 grant, and they're going to complete the $300,000 of the match.

Okay, so we're going to take a vote on all three of these, the East Hanover Sewer Module and the Memorial Park Improvement Project and Penbrook Borough. No, actually, that doesn't take a vote. It's a notification. Yeah, that's just a notification. So can we have a motion to approve the staff comments and recommendations on these three items? Yeah, Bob Spandler. So moved. Thank you, Bob. We have a second.

Second. Harry Geiske will second.

Thank you, Mary. I heard you in there, Ms. Schaffer, with an E and an F. Wasn't that Lisa? We'll credit you with the next motion.

Give me in there to make sure to double check on those minutes then.

Okay. Okay. All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Opposition? Aye. Hearing none, the motion passes. Your comments and concurrence have gone forward. Okay, let's talk about... Ag easements.

Yes, this is a case where it doesn't necessarily, there is no need for action, but we do have a responsibility or a notification requirement under the Ag Preservation Program. Under the Ag Preservation Land Exchange Program, there are a couple of properties that are seeking to have a change in their designation. The first one is on 395 Roller Load roller road in elizabethville and they're looking at uh the lap family is looking to trade acreage uh with their other parts of their property that's owned within the family one area will be now turned into acreage for ag area and one area will be taken out Also, the second one is the JT Poultry, the Moore Preserve Farm. They have a portion on 664 Mountain Road in Elizabethville in Mifflin Township. They're looking to subdivide a piece of the property off in order to build a residential dwelling unit. Again, so that needs to have action to take that portion out. As a note in our letter, we're also noting that any of these actions that are causing or they're going to result in a subdivision, we're not reserving any time to make comments on it. We're only just recognizing that they're doing the ag preservation work.

Yeah, I think those changes are anticipated by the Ag Preservation Law and allow for subdivision for family. Flexibility. Flexibility, that's right. Okay, any questions for Jerry about the Preserve Farm? If there are any comments additionally you'd like us to make. None. Okay. Thank you. Number seven, we go to additional items.

We'll do the comp plan first.

Okay, sure.

We'll do the comp plan. I will like to, uh, to announce that, uh, we have received all funding. Wow. So we received the gaming grant from the commissioners of $75,000 and, uh, late Thursday afternoon, Friday morning, it was announced that, uh, the state has approved our MAP grant, I call it. It's Municipal Assistance Planning Grant. So we asked for $75,000 there. So we have a total of $150,000. And so we're fully funded and we're about ready to start rolling with doing a lot of the things that we were kind of holding off on doing. So the public outreach section I have here, I brought with me and we can go, but we've got about $60,000 budgeted for that. That includes advertisement and website improvements and additional outreach materials and things like that. Also, too, we're going to be expanding our group that we'll be working with, the number of people, compared to just a small group with expanding to a higher outreach. So that's going to be for the next six months. year we'll be suspending writing the plan. So it's exciting.

I mean, that's what you guys live for.

Well, no, but that helps us.

Well, I've never figured out anything else that planners live for. I mean, this stuff is what you guys really, it's what you live and train for.

Well, that's what we train for. That's right. But anyway, so that's good news. So I wanted to make that aware of everyone. Thank you. Congratulations.

How about land development subdivision? Go ahead. Sorry. Someone had a question?

I just said congratulations as well. Oh, okay. Thank you, Chris. Good accomplishment. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Land development subdivision applications fees.

Sure. So we're in the process of looking at all of our review fees right now. The last time Dauphin County increased their review fees was 2009. So it's been about 17 years. costs have gone up um i think in the packet jerry had included the current the current fee structure at the end of the packet yeah should be the second to last page here well yeah close to it so that's our current review fee and then um I had, so we pulled some data going back to 2009 and show it on screen here showing these are the fees collected. This is our expenditures for those reviews. And then here's the difference. Uh, I mean, if we're being completely Frank, this is much more of an issue in our Perry County office and, and, and then, then dolphins specifically, but, um, You can see here three of the last four years, we have been expending more time. We haven't covered our costs for these reviews. This is somewhat of an anomaly. This is a relatively low year, although it's pretty close to 25, but this was easily our highest year ever of review fees. I know 2024 is when we had the Stilton warehouses that were kind of a unique situation that was a very large development that was submitted for all three municipalities that it was in. So we were getting kind of... You got the triple dip. Yeah. And for their reasons, they had to submit that multiple times. So I think 2024 was probably a little higher. Obviously, it's higher than we'd ever seen before. Yeah. artificially inflated. I think this is an important number here too. We typically, we ballpark or kind of budget three hours per review that whichever planner is doing, that's how long they'll spend. In 2009, when we set that fee, our average planner, we were paying our average planner $53 an hour to do that. for a total of 160. Now in 2025, it's up to $80 an hour. So it's costing us $241 for every review. So I don't know that we're asking for any, I mean, I guess I'd pause here and ask if anybody has any comment.

Well, my only comment is that you want to avoid my opinion is avoid sticker shock right because it attracts negative attention and negative attention attracts political interference and unhappiness and then generally even if you get most of what you want it comes at a great cost so just keep that in mind sure well this will only be

changing this fee structure will take action from this committee. So I appreciate that comment. What I would say is also, though, that now that we are getting to relatively break-even points here and that we're kind of, you know... if we started doing small increases now we would avoid having to do big ones later wait 10 years until now we're really in the hole and now all of a sudden we have to increase our review fees by a couple hundred dollars or something that that's personal you know there's there's pluses and minuses of doing it each way so um you know we can come we're going to do some research and figure out and we can present to everybody what everybody else you know, and not our region, but kind of the bigger region, how they, how they approach this. It's not necessarily increasing it across the board. We can, you know, we going back to the fee structure, you know, non-residential fees are determined differently than residential fees. We can add it. We can, we can add other reasonable, delineations of uses and structure fees that way too, whether it's mixed use, because we're running into some issues with how we classify a mixed use development and what kind of fee they pay. So we can be relatively creative with this too. It's not just It doesn't have to be everybody pays more. I think what we want to do is really target the types of developments and applications where we see our costs really going over. It's not those little lot add-ons. It's not moving a lot line. That you can do in two hours, three hours. You can do a good review. It's these really big developments that come in. That's where it gets... It can start to get unbalanced there in the fee we're collecting versus the time it takes to do a good substantive review of that application.

So you can get examples from other counties then? Yes. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, and I think like one of the, as Andrew said, one of the classifications we've been finding ourselves as the land uses have been changing into everything, particularly like with mixed uses, we really kind of are confused on how to do it. So a lot of they're, The uses are getting more complicated and the reviews are more complicated, but our code is not matched to how it should be done. We need to come up with a creative fee structure. Yeah, like just now that solar farm, that was just a $100 fee because ours is based upon square footage of the building. and there's no buildings on it so some open a solar farm just not to pay a big fee yeah so there was not much charge for that solar farm for review even though you know it was 50 some acres 75 how many acres there was and we had to go so there's some inconsistencies on some of that stuff not that we want to make this overly complicated for people that we that, you know, 90 different categories.

You're right. But also at the same time, I think when Mabel does her lot addition, you know, on the family farm, we don't want to be charging her, you know, $975, which costs Mabel, that's a lot of money versus, you know, someone doing a 300 unit development or a solar farm with a lot of time being invested, you know, to make sure that it's planned well and all that.

And also too, and something is, you know, like also is kind of the redevelopment within Harrisburg, you know, the way our ordinance is now, if they would redo something for the, uh, for the federal building, it's based upon units. Well, if that's a lot of units, there's not really much reviewing that we're doing because the building is already there. So we may end up having some other kind of fee structure for that because, you know, it's really, it's sort of built to, it's built for a 1970s review model, which is we're looking at subdivisions of development that way, whereas things have changed in the last,

40 years well the one category that you're talking about is federal deep pockets that's what you're well no but i mean the i would just put everything in that yeah just increase that by 500 okay we've beaten this horse to death any questions yeah i want this question i had one question on that chart that andrew had before the hourly rate there i'm presuming that's salary and benefits right

I hope so. I'm not making $80.

I'm just checking because I kind of know that too. It's $166,000 a year if you're at $80.

Yeah, hey. Sold.

Well, you're going to come back with us with a recommendation based on what you're seeing out there. But I do agree with Josh. Small incremental increases are a lot easier to tolerate than large shock ones. So, yep.

right even maybe an hourly rate you know i was very curious to see if other counties you know like you were saying you know some are so very simple like if you know someone's subdividing one acre off of their farm but you know on a big thing i see we just charge a flat rate you know even if we could implement an hourly rate you know sometimes the feds do that by the way on some of their some of their uh

planning and right to know stuff, FOIA stuff. It's based on hours. Okay. Thank you very much, Bob. Thank you, John. Any other comments, questions, complaints about overpaid planners? Okay. Hearing none, that's it.

Okay, any other? Just to note, we did decide to move the meeting back to the 4th of July holiday because the 5th is on a Monday. So in case anybody was traveling an extended time period, the next meeting is on the 14th. So it's the second Monday.

The 14th is a Tuesday?

I thought it's Monday. Well, maybe. I don't know. Maybe I was looking at the wrong year again. That could happen.

13th. Okay.

So let's make that change. It's July 13th.

Need a motion to change the agenda?

No. Stop that.

Okay. We may have already done that because it's already on my calendar for July 13th. Right. Yeah, 13th. Okay.

Okay. Any other comments? Any other last minute business? Okay. Hearing none, we need a motion to adjourn. And a second. No move. Thank you, Joseph. Second, please.

Second, Lisa.

Lisa. Quick on the, yeah. Thank you, Lisa, with the F and an E. All right. All those in favor of adjourning?

Any opposed?

Motion carries. Very nice to be here with all of you. Thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Lisa, John, Gary, Bob, Mary, and Chris. Thank you for being here today. Everybody have a lovely 4th of July, 250th anniversary celebration. And we will see you all here afterwards. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Josh.