Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I apologize. City of Portland County Commission meeting to order at 518. First item on the agenda is 7779 Main Street site plan review. Is anyone here to talk on that behalf? Am I welcome to speak and tell us who you are? Sure.

Welcome. Mm-hmm.

Keith Fox, one of the owners of the property, 7779 Main Street. I guess in 2018, purchased the property and applied for plans to renovate the building, turn third floor, which were two apartments and four apartments, and then add two apartments on the back of the building on the ground floor. Yeah. Yeah. You know, submitted everything, got the building permit, did it all, engineers, drawings, stamps approved, did the work, been operating that way ever since. You know, done inspections when they need to get done, and we've got the property under contract, and we're going to close, and when we apply for the zoning permit, There's some discretion and I was told I came here to try to get it resolved because you can't close on the sale without it. Because the zoning says eight apartments and there's 10 total for the building. And I think the issue is that the two downstairs apartments on the rear of the building.

Are these the two storefronts north of the Chamber of Commerce?

Yes. Yeah, premier roofing was our previous tenant and then a lot of vintage are the storefronts. But then on the back of the building are two apartments.

And the two apartments exist there right now?

Yeah.

So if I might add. Please. The certificate of occupancy was issued in an error by the city of Coraline. should never have been done without a use for ants and site-finding view for those two back apartments. This was done before my time. Unfortunately, we're trying to correct the situation. And honestly, we were going to do a law change at one point to allow this for handicap accessible apartments. One of the reasons we were doing a lot of changes because because he's got a good sense of purpose and right then.

And this ties in with the four item on our agenda is first. Our recommendation to this council, whether they should go along with this right pretty much what.

Well, no, this isn't this isn't a central business. Similar, but the zone changes. That allow it.

Wouldn't that rectify the situation if they change the law?

No, not necessarily.

That's why we're changing it.

So we need to do a variance?

Well, use variance. There's a special meeting of the ZBA after you guys are done today. What is it, grant to use variance? Yes. Okay. So they're just looking for a recommendation then? Oh, what they're looking for is because technically this is the correct way to do it. Right. It needs to go through Also, no, no. Site plan review because there's technically a pedestrian change because they're entering into the back of the building now. Okay.

Wait, but the apartments there already, they weren't entering through the back of the building?

Yeah, they are. But again, understand that these apartments were never approved. Right. So you're going through the approval, the complete approval process for these two building units like they aren't there. Yeah. We're trying to correct the problem. Okay. But not the fault. TAB, Mark McIntyre, or the applicant know right so.

TAB, Mark McIntyre, This process should have been through. TAB, Mark McIntyre, They were built.

TAB, Mark McIntyre, Right, I mean I would assume accessible housing downtown is very limited because there's no elevators and.

TAB, Mark McIntyre, So that is why. TAB, Mark McIntyre, You guys recall, we were discussing this back. two years ago when we were doing a bunch of law changes. And that was actually supposed to be in the law change. And it was inadvertently omitted from the law change we did two years ago. But these were built prior to that. And these are actually what triggered that law change that never happened. So we're just trying to fix this after the fact. Because you'd like those two apartments back, because it's a change of what you can get for that building.

So really, we're looking for a site plan review for 10 units instead of eight that were originally. Exactly. Okay. So is everybody clear on that?

We're clear on that. I'm in favor.

Does anyone have any questions for the applicant at this point?

No, I see. I mean, the one require accessibility features to maintain for the library units. I think. Right. Given that exception because they are accessible. So it makes sense. Right, all right. Right, it can't be changed back.

Right.

All right. I have a motion then to approve this site plan review for 77 and 79 Main Street. With the stipulation. With the stipulation that all these three things be followed. Entrance units in the rear. Entrance and egress paths should be kept clear of storage. Parking, although parking is not permitted in Central Business District, consideration should be given to the additional parking that could be needed. And thirdly, require accessibility features to maintain for life. Let's make sure we get those three things. Okay. I believe so, yeah. We need a motion. Make a motion. I just saw Mike standing in front of you. You can be second. Okay. Further discussion? All right. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Any abstentions? Okay. The motion was granted. Thank you.

And so now there's always going to come in here after us today to get this moment for this.

To efficiency, you make the motion of my main motion and second. So my second item on our agenda is. So you plan review for tax ID number 76.83-01-01.000. The applicant, C.T. Seller 8, seeks approval of site plans on a parcel along, this should be east side. We're talking about this east side of 81, right? Yes. Because the west side would put it over with McDonald's. It's to the west side of the property. Well, it's the west side of the property, but the way this reads, it looks like it's the west side of 81, but it's not, correct? I just want to see. I don't see power lines going across 81. I'm trying to avoid here. Okay. Does that make sense? Because we're not going to put anything close to the other side that you want. Like Mike said, he pointed out on the map, you can see what they map is west of the existing property of solar gas. And they're just going to extend that and start connecting.

When I looked at the map, I thought it was going

Because I want, is anybody here to talk about this? Well, come on, because I don't want to, I don't want to. Yeah, we're going to find out.

We're going to have wires.

I was like, I'm laying on it.

They have hard enough time getting the trucks underneath the bridge up in Liverpool.

We don't need power lines.

No, we're not out of power lines. It's a lot more simple than that. All right. So I mean, today we own the land, which is to the west of the Casey property. That's what, yeah, that's what I'm like. And so if we had, you know, developed in, We have a tenant, DSD Renewables, who owns that solar farm and we just have the land. And then we own the land just to the north, which is in Corlandville, right on the property there. And so what we are asking to do is to work with Mr. Casey, who's our neighbor, just to have, because we have some solar panels going in on the Corlandville property that we got approved. that we can put an access road on the Casey property with five power poles that would connect to the . And so instead of, it's just shifting in from, it's just having the option to shift it from our property just across .

Are there any questions on this site plan review?

What has been the parcels between the tf you'll go and you want.

To figure out exactly know so that the Mr Casey's parcels a little bit strange because the mystery is personal is the same parcel buddy you want to go through the middle of it so there's a little bit on the side of it in a little bit on the main just can you just want to be yes, you know.

So it is.

So basically, basically adjacent to.

yeah so are the additional panels on the

New lot, are those in or are they going in?

In Cortlandville, they're going to go in.

And that's going to double the size of what's very close, maybe not quite? Not quite. Right. You're going to go to the Cortlandville?

Yeah. All right.

All right.

Any other questions or comments?

What's the, Brooke Fluger. see endangered animals listed in um um i don't think but what they're approving is this little time yeah i don't think any other questions all right we'll get a motion to approve the site plan for i'm not going to repeat that either

That's a move. First one, a motion. I have a second. Seconded. All right, Jim. All right, further discussion.

I'll argue it one thing.

If you have any intention in the future of putting in any energy storage systems, you're going to have to come back to this board and get it operated permanently.

Yeah, no, we don't have any plans at this point to do that.

But if we did, we'll come back again. All right. All right. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Any abstentions?

All right, motion carries. You're already done. I'm just curious. This already went to Cali. Yeah, they did. I see Trisha's name and Chris Jankis, who actually was one of my students at Bain's. All right. Thank you. I think you're all set. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

Our third item on the agenda is 160 Clinton Ave, site plan review, property owner, South City Development LLC. Seek site plan approval for the purpose of renovating a commercial space or a Google store next to Holly's. Proposed work, you can see the rest. Proposed work gives you the specifics. Is anyone here to talk on CRISPR?

He is not, but I can speak for him. Okay. The only exterior work they're going to be doing, there's a light sign at the front of the building. In GB1 district and shopping centers, there is no matte square footage. So we're not going to worry about that if it's GB1 shopping center. to work with or just leave it open? There is no pressure. The wall signs and shop is out of their general size. Okay. The back of the building now is what they're adding on a certain square footage and then the pictures are there. They're adding a loading dock back there. It's going to be kind of like a, well, it's going to be a wall shop. Right.

Where's it going in relation to Ali's?

Right next to Ali's.

You're facing Ali's, the Dollar General? Oh. Okay.

So actually it's a good thing because for those of us who don't care, basically our entire lives, this will be the first time in a very long time that an entire shop is going to be filled. Full? Right. Wow.

Yeah. I'm happy to see you.

Is that being used as storage right now? Is it that space?

No, it's empty. It's empty? John Potter, Are you going to get a motion for 160 central at the goodwill store that they aren't putting next dollars. John Potter, On the ground, and as you said. John Potter, Any group or further discussion just with those voting.

John Potter, Is that an impact the grass back there and i'm like there's a couple doors right there, I mean there's a truck in there and i'm down there, you know. John Potter, That kind of stuff about.

Any other questions?

Just locally owned facility or not?

I don't know. Talking about the owner of Goodwill.

Yeah, Salt City out of Syracuse.

Out of Syracuse, that's what I'm wondering. Abe Morocco owns, he's a

All right, any other questions or comments, concerns?

It's a good thing, development.

All right, all those in favor of the site planning review for 160, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Any abstentions? All right, the site plan carries. I'm on the agenda is just a recommendation looking for a recommendation on this year about making these some of these properties first or properties. Residential units by law to have to go to the common council. So I guess what we have to do is have a discussion at first and then make a recommendation.

Right is to move into you know smart city right to you know the zoning but I'd just be curious to hear your thoughts on Bo Harvard's email.

I read Bo Harvard's email. Understand that anything that's a current use will be, once this law changes, will still be allowed to exist unless the property goes vacant. So if they do sell Thomas Tire, they're going to be able to sell it as a garage as long as it doesn't go vacant. So it's still going to be able to maintain those those use for that. Secondly, there are business types that are allowed in our four districts. So it's not like it's gonna be specifically earmarked for residential. The big thing is, is we just had someone have to pay for a use variance all the way down the other end. Main street, South main, that's really never been a central business district. And if you walk up that, if you walk up that street from that particular property, the whole side that I suggested making those changes to there may be one or two buildings there that have, have a storefront that theoretically those, if they ever left, you can't use it. Whereas the upstairs are already apartments. And why not be able to convert those first floor storefronts into apartments? That's the ones on Main Street. The ones that are off of Main Street that I made the changes to, they're not even in a central business. They're just behind it. I mean, it's already apartment building. So yeah, the only other issues that Mr. Hartman had, Mr. Hartman had one on where the dog grooming place is on South Main. Again, that's completely, if you look at where that sits, there's a multi-residential building here, there's a multi-residential building there, and that dog grooming sits right between it. Right. If that, if that ever went up, it could still be an office. It could still be a personal or, or a special office. Or they could change it to, uh, the same unit apart. Right now, they can't because it's in, in a such a, in a sort of, um, the same theory we use for, for the Y. Unfortunately, when the membership is down and everything, you know, if that something bad ever happened in that place, what a perfect place for a multi-residential apartment building, even a low-income building, because it's right next to downtown post office services. And it couldn't, you know, that first floor couldn't be used there. And then let's go around on the corner on to Grand Am, same principle on Grand Am. The majority of those buildings are already used as residential. And you can't just say, okay, um, this, this, this one on ground has residential, it's residential. Now this one's not, we're going to keep the central business, but this one right next door to it is, is residential. So we're going to change to an R4. That's spot zone. You can't do that. So putting things ahead and thinking that there, there still are potentials for business uses in an R4 and HAB-Jacques Juilland, Also, the other areas around that are already here for that's that was my thinking behind it, and if you notice, there are some that we changed our to as well, because the the areas immediately adjacent to those areas are artists.

HAB-Jacques Juilland, So you know. HAB-Jacques Juilland, yeah. HAB-Jacques Juilland, Oh, and.

HAB-Jacques Juilland, The looking at the. The funeral, if that ever went up, that could be a personal or, or, or it could be an office building. There's a couple other ones there. It could be also awesome. Going back to the why, without looking at it, off the top of my head, clubs and such are allowed in an R4 as well. So that could be, you know, they could maintain it used as a club too. So the changes, yes, they're businesses. They've always been used as businesses. I'm just trying to open it up for other options.

So what's the difference between R2 and R4, the options that can go there?

The R2 ones are a little more, Why would you limit Redbeard to that? You don't want to change Redbeard. I want to be consistent with the changes I was making. Because again, I understand it's not on mainstream. Right. I just don't want to handcuff. Again, I understand. If he's going to sell that as a funeral home, it's going to stay as a funeral home.

It's not really limiting owners. In fact, it's adding more.

We're saying that that does a prime business location with the parking right there and everything. So right now, if it goes to an R2, they're limiting what they could sell it as.

But again, they can still use it as a business as long as it doesn't go vacant.

Well, I guess you're advocating more for an R4 and an R2 for that. I guess that's my question. Yeah, yeah. Maybe get them a little more, and I don't know enough about the difference. The difference between R2 and R4?

I would imagine that more businesses... Oh, yeah, there are more that are allowed, but there still are businesses allowed in R2. I still have that truck.

Yeah, I've got it here. Okay. institutional purposes within residential districts, place of worship, schools, public service utilities. This is for? Well, across all residential districts are permitted with special use from that. And actually, so clubs, lodges, etc. are expressly prohibited across all except R4. Ancillary parking expressly prohibited across all except the four. Parks playgrounds authorized with special use permit commercial purposes. Indoor lodging allowed with a special permit in three and four. Added, uh, expressly prohibited and wanted to. Uh, medical extended medical care facilities, personal professional offices. Um, expressed and. Daycare centers expressly prohibited in 2.

So, say that sentence again.

Yeah, so, uh, under commercial. Um, indoor launching. prohibited in two, allowed with special use permit in four. Extended care medical facility, expressly prohibited in two, allowed with special use permit in four. And then personal or professional offices, medical offices, and daycare centers. and use by right in four. Cemeteries allowed with special use permit involved. So that covers the institutional and commercial allowed by right or special use permit.

What flexibility for business in and on? Definitely. I mean, so what does the owner of the property, I mean, do they have any say in this or not necessarily?

I'll defer to Randall on the general city law aspect of it, but We so prior to any adoption by the county council, there'd be a public hearing with required notices going to property owners, adjacent property owners, as in the property owners, as well as across the street neighboring property owners. And there's provisions providing that if a certain percentage Of any of those were to file petitions and rejection. Then the threshold for our majority of the whole area that are 2 days, 3 quarters of the council vote would be required. Passes, so there's, uh, direct notification and opportunity for. Uh, property owners and.

object if they wish right and then i mean all these change currently funeral parlors are not allowed in central business districts anyway so i don't know if great beard you know is there no grant already and nothing through today will change their prior right views right so they get to keep that this isn't the fact no i'm just saying like picking them to uh to whatever other, MR4 and R2, they're still gonna be in the same situation essentially. I don't think we're thinking about the current use of the property, we're thinking down the road.

If they were to sell, it's the flexibility.

Yeah, flexibility of that particular property. I mean, it's right next to what used to be the family counseling right now, it's the gym. There's a big parking lot right in that area. There's a large apartment directly across the street So, you know, I would see that more as a scenario that could have more of a bit, you know, didn't need as much of a residential character as that one project. Everything else, I agree with. But I do try to respond to what I agree with, and we switch this one to an R4 instead of all of you.

That's not, they can make that recommendation. It's currently slated for an R2, right, Mike?

Well, with the change to be an R2, right? That's in the proposal. Right, yeah, in the proposal. And I guess once they see it, they can push back harder on it. But I think flexibility-wise, the R4 gives them a little more. Well, that's what I was just thinking, too.

And your recommendation can be that that one be an R4. Right, right. And you may, I was just looking at the Google Earth map there, and it looks like the place across the street is probably already an R4, but non-conforming. So if you're going to change the one to an R4, you might want to change the one across the street to an R4 as well.

Well, no. You're talking about the one that's adjacent to the six-story apartment building, right?

The six-story apartment building, right.

Or are you talking about the six-story apartment building? Yeah, that's the one. Well, I think that, you know, as an R2, it fits as an R2, doesn't it?

That's a multi-unit right now. Six-story apartment building, and then you've got another one right next to it. That's six feet tall. 68 Lincoln. They've got 20-something. Between the two of them. Two Dozier, 20-something parts.

Yeah.

So you couldn't do those in an R4? But you could in an R4. Yeah. So they're both pre-existing non-conforming, but if it was R4, they would be conforming uses, both of them.

So would you guys okay with a motion to accept this with the provision that we recommend those two with three parcels? He switched the same engines. So it's two parcels, three buildings. What about the small ones of Maple? Is that the hairdresser? No, that's not the hairdresser. No, they're just departments. I would make that motion accepting this with the change of recommendation of 6.8 linking and Whatever address Redbird Funeral Home is to be R4-742.

All right, the president's made a motion. We need a second. I just have one more question.

Yeah, go ahead, Michael. So down on South Main, some of the Outback units are too, like the little chunks here, Frederick Ave and Argyle. Yeah, they're all one or two years old.

They're limited to that other size alone, right? What they have. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

And they're down the block. It'll go right more right next to the original without the parking that exists in Lincoln.

So just to clarify also the different like lot requirements, they would become a pre-existing nonconformity in terms of lot sizes, setbacks, all of that, that they would still be entitled to that pre-existing exemption, correct? With the need to get an area? Correct. Okay. Yes.

And the way that the place on maple and other are to is that the I know that yellow county garage building that john Ryan, you saw. Before the best or maybe family still does no, no, the one behind the court one in from the corner now it's not on the corner and something that your hairdressers or I can't remember what's behind there, so now yeah if you prefer the law offices or partner, I think, is on the corner of Madison.

Oh, yes.

I'm just trying to picture that maple one. I'm just going to Google this. Oh, no, sorry. That's not the place I'm thinking of.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, I was thinking something else. Yeah. I'm fine with that as well, too.

But do you want to change it? Do you want it on that thing?

Well, I don't want to say you're... Okay. I would do a motion to accept these recommendations or to make our suggestions with the recommendation that 6, 8 Lincoln and 9 Lincoln be switched to from the suggested R2 to the suggested R4. Everybody got none? All right. We need a second.

So, I'd like to have the 2nd, I heard the discussion. We're basically going along with those 2 modifications. All right. All those in favor.

Are you okay with that?

Yeah, fine. I just. Truth be told, I, I missed it. Oh, no, no, it's all right. I was just looking at the thinking of what the. What the neighbors off. Yeah, are we going for and I wasn't thinking about. That 6, 8, Lincoln is already involved with what might not be there for right. Right. We're just trying to.

That's why we get it a lot. You're going to be more.

So I think that's my second. I'm like, second, any other discussion. All right, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed. All right. Motion carried. The last thing on our agenda is to approve the minutes from our May meeting, May 4th meeting. Any changes or questions to the minutes from May, last month? I didn't print out an extra copy. I don't know. I think I was trying to print out the agenda. Last month's meeting. Technologies are wonderful. Mm-hmm. All right. You got it. I have a motion to approve the minutes from our May meeting. I'll make that motion. All right, Jim, second?

Second.

All right, Amy has decided we'll get her in here.

I heard your discussion.

All those in favor of approving the minutes, say aye. Aye. Our next meeting, just so you can go on the calendar, is July 6th. There's one day in the month. July 6th.