Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

this 48 2025 commission meeting to order here. We start with our public comments here and I invite anyone who has any public comments not related to the uh hospital housing opportunity site project discussions going to be happening here soon. Please come on up and name, address the podium. Uh, my name is Mike Powder. I live on Main Street up in Empire. And, uh, what I want to bring up today is, um, um, when you go to the website, Kuzbay website, and it talks about the planning commission, it says it meets once a month. Um this is the first meeting since January and I don't think much happened on January. Um you know to me I think it should be once a month. I think the public would get more involved with it if it's once a month then rather than just a hit and miss. So I'd like to see what pressure we can put onto the city because I know the city council have a say so in this. um get the pressure on them to to get this uh planning commission up and running a lot, you know, a lot more supported than what they seems like they're getting. Um also when I was looking through online, I like to go online now and again. Um I I went to the city of Palo Alto, you know, Palo Alto is a very successful city. They've got a um um you know, good infrastructure. Of course, they got tons of bucks, too, but you know, you can still live like a millionaire even if you're broke. Uh so what they have there is they have a uh planning and transportation commission which seems to pull a lot of weight because to me for

more I learn on things planning land use and roads and transportation are a big key you know and I I think they're pretty much neglected in this area. So, that's what I wanted to bring up. And I got my little notes here, which I always seem to make notes. You know, you can flip through them and see if there's anything, you know, lights up or anything. But, uh, the bylaws to the PaloAlto, um, Planning and Transportation Committee are in there, too. So, I'll leave those with you guys and be nice reading for you. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate that. Are there any other public comments not related to the hospitality site project. We will have opportun here trying to find out more information about it. This is the first I've heard of it and I live in the neighborhood. So, is there a website information pack or something like that that I can obtain? What do we have back here? Yeah. Thank you. Any other comments item on a hospital? So, um, just for those who are here, there is a little flyer. It has a QR code if you're able to access it. There's an online community survey. It gives a ton of information about the project. So, you have that. And then there is a city on the city's website

under their projects, there's some additional listed information. and I'm going to share my screen. Could you tell us who you are, please? Yes. Yes. Yes. So, for those of you who don't know, my name is Chelsea Schnobble. I'm the city's community development director. Thank you. For those here in attendance and um in person and online, let me share Okay. So, I'm going to share my screen. Put in See if that starts working. So, we're here tonight. This is an opportunity for community engagement. The city is partnered with the hospital also state agency department of land conservation and development to uh work on a project known as the Bay Area hospital opportunity site. Um and so that is what we are here tonight to talk about. Um just some some context, this uh project is really an example of community partnerships. The city really prides itself in partnering with others in the community to to move projects forward. So, community partners include um many stakeholders, uh the public, the neighborhood, and and this is an opportunity for those to provide input on what what their goals and priorities are for the area, what they see as opportunities for the site. So, we welcome um any input you have. There will be a there is currently an online survey. It's an opportunity to provide

input. There will be a QR code at the end of this slide for for people to um utilize to check that out. There's also information on the city's website. We have flyers. If you need help, feel free to reach out directly to me. I can help help you with that. So, other partners are the city. We're one of those partners, but then there's the state uh Department of Land Conservation and Development. We have uh representative Nikki Cross here with us tonight and Hoy Redsky, our regional rep is online. This just represents the local and state government um goals around land use, housing, the natural areas, the transportation. And then there's the property owner, the Bay Area Health District. They are representing their goals as property owner. they hold the title to the land and ultimately are the ones in the end who make decisions about about what happens to this um the land that's the subject of this project. So some background the what are we doing? We're trying to complete a feasibility study to evaluate opportunities for future use development of an approximate 16 acre parcel of vacant land owned by the hospital. It's just south of the hospital, um, south of its emergency room access. It's, uh, forested and this is it's not an easy to develop piece of land, but who who's part of that this project? Again, the city of Kbay, we're that public partner, the health district, they're the land owner. The department of land conservation and development through their transportation growth management program, they are the funer. um helping with the project. And then there's the consultants. We have Cascadia partners involved. Paul Paul R is online and he he'll be here to answer any questions. What's the end goal?

Really, it's to come up with a concept plan for the site that uh the city council will be presented to the city council, be presented to the health um district, their board. And the idea is that through all this engagement, the result will be a shared positive vision for the site. It's going to, you know, consider all the different goals, blend them together. There will be a a feasibility report that talks about how how is could this be implemented and um again just really want to look at how can we meet those shared goals of all the partners. And why are we doing this now? because the hospital has completed their own master planning efforts for for their facilities, their land, and they've determined this parcel is surplus, meaning they don't have a need for it to build additional medical facilities. They also understand the local need for housing, uh, and they want to be part of the solution. So, again, we've partnered together to come up with maybe this is one way we can help um work towards solving that problem. I'm gonna ask Nikki with the LCD to come up and talk about the TGM program. I'm a little shorter. Hi, Nicole Cross, uh, land use and transportation planner with the Department of Land Conservation and Development. Um, I'll be very brief, but I just wanted to give a quick overview in case you're not familiar with the TGM program. Uh we provide grants uh for a v variety of different planning efforts around the state. Um so we get our money from the federal highway administration and ODOT uh the state of Oregon and we filter that money down to local jurisdictions for projects um like

transportation system plans, area plans, updating uh modernizing your local zoning ordinance. And this project is called a quick response project which is sight specific and a relatively short planning horizon of you know a few months. Um so there we go. Uh we only fund projects that are in alignment with our TGM goals and values. And our TGM mission is to work in partnership with local governments to create vibrant livable places in which people can walk, bike, take transit or drive wherever they want to go. We also have um our overarching TGM objectives um like creating communities that are complete with vibrant downtowns, uh livable neighborhoods, transportation choices, um e v vital economic centers, and we aim to save public and private costs with efficient compact land use development and sustainable development. Um, so I'm here to answer any questions from Yep. Go ahead. You're saying this money is coming from the federal government. Uh, what's the chance of that anything coming from there? I mean, so far, uh, we're not aware of any cuts to our program. So, we're continuing business as usual. I guess I'd ask that question generally. Has a Kuspay city of Kuspay had any cuts in any of their programs based on what we see happening in the wider world? It's a great question, Nikki. Thank you. So, just to ask that question, um answer that question. The city did was working on an efficiency um kind of like an audit with the department um HUD and that funding was cut. the consultant working in on that

project. And so we were looking at permitting, efficiency, organization efficiency, fiscal health, um, grant funding, all of this funding was cut, but that consultant has gone out on their own to find ways to replace that funding. So the project's not dead, it's just stalled. Um, so that's what I can say about that. Yeah. I think just as long as people understand that what occurring right at home. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Commissioner Burke. You bet. Okay. So, this this project want to give you a highle view of the schedule. We really started chipping away at this in January. Uh looking at the existing conditions, what is the site? What are we what do we got to work with? um in March began to engage the key partners, lots of lots of stakeholders in the community. Our consultant did some one-on-one uh interviews. We also held a key partners uh meeting at the hospital, got a lot of good feedback. Um, moving in to May, we'll be exploring, you know, more of the site concepts, the designs, taking in this input that we're receiving tonight at our our meeting and through the online survey in order to come up with that, you know, what is that community vision? What is the real potential for this site? And that is expected to be finalized uh in July and would go before um like I said council and the Bayer area health district board for consideration. Um just a few key points. We haven't uh selected a concept yet there. The financial analysis that feasibility piece hasn't been done yet. That's next

steps. And there's not a one developer who has been identified to do this work. So we're really just gathering input looking trying to build what what that concept would look like. So we've been talking about you know we're really trying to gather what the goals are the priorities coming up with a site concept in order to do that a piece of it is developing some evaluation framework you know so when we come up with concepts how do we evaluate is this one which one makes most sense we had that key partners meeting where all of those um players came and they gave some input and these uh different kind of ideas really rose to the surface. So supporting various life stages, our youth to our seniors, we we would love to see the site utilized in that way. Um supporting active transportation, promoting general community health. And then the two that really rose to the top were supporting housing, variety of housing types and coming up with livable community like sustainable communities. How can we take the site, develop something that's in harmony with the existing um natural space? And then we don't want to forget that this is really about feasibility. It's got to be financially feasible. Really going to take community partnerships to make it viable. So that evaluation framework, you know, there's a couple of key um parts, but housing, one goal, one idea that rose to the top was the diversity of housing options. So that's the various housing types at various price points and then both providing both owner and renter opportunities, also serving the needs of residents at different life stages. And then there's an economic

development criteria. So how does it meet those different life stage needs? You know, is it youth education, job training, access to senior supportive services? Um the general community health idea, you know, what how is it providing for that? And then the livable sustainable criteria. We really want to see it supporting a sense of community, place in line with the natural environment. Want to see uh transportation connections, walking, biking, um transit provided and then there's the financial feasibility and the strong community partnerships. So the consultant has come up with some concepts for the site. Just kind of break this down a little bit. For those who aren't aware, we are over here. This is Marshfield over here. I don't have a pointer. And city hall is right here in downtown Kuz Bay. The site is approximately a mile away northwest over here by the hospital. It's forested kind of between the hospital, that medical park facility, and adjacent residential neighborhoods. So, just briefly, what do we know? Again, um this site is proximate to our the largest employer in the area, the hospital. They've deemed it a surplus site. So, there's some opportunity for uh other contemplating other uses separate from just purely medical facilities. Um we know that the hospital is going through changes. We have certainty though that this parcel of land will remain with the health district. And so that is um important to keep in mind. And we know there's a need for approximately 600 new uh ownership rental units, all types, all price points in the community. So if we can

help meet that need in some way on the site, that's great. The site is part of the Pony Slooh. It's forested. It has some topographic challenges. There are streams that run through it, likely fish bearing, so environmental challenges. Um, currently serving as open space people. There are trails adjacent that are maintained by the hospital on the site. Some trails not being maintained, but we know people are going through it. Um, we know it's a site that's challenging to develop. It's going to be expensive. and also that uh a mix of uses could be there including housing. So here again is another view of the site just south of the hospital 16 acres. This is a map of the zoning that salmon red color is our medical park facility. So you can see there's a pretty large chunk of land right in the area that dedicated to medical park use and complimentary uh residential commercial uses. Also to the you know north or the east and south are residential neighborhoods. I'll just I guess you can see on this slide that Myrtle Avenue to the south there's Myrtle Avenue rightway that runs south of the parcel. So there's access there. There's a couple of other potential access points. This uh slide just shows that challenging topography, the the streams, the ravines, but it also, you know, finds that it's not unlike other areas in our community. We're we're built on on sites like this. So it's not impossible uh it's not an impossible site to develop. This slide is showing that that green space is the natural space. That's what

it is right now. It's natural. 16 acres. The consultant through all of their work has found there's about 7 acres of easily more easily developed land. That's the yellow. And then another potential 5 1/2 acres. A little bit more difficult to develop but uh possible. And you'll see uh over this is the subject parcel hospital's property. And then over here is maybe some additional land that we might contemplate bringing in. It's owned by the hospital. And then over here is additional land owned by Northbend Medical Center. Our consultants have talked with the medical center and they've um said, you know, they don't really have any planned uses for this site and would be open to conversations about what future use looks like. So here is one of two current site concepts. This is called the out and back. It's they have trail hiking hiking names. You'll see that it still has the seven acres in play of easily developed land maybe potential three and a quarter additional acres. But what's uh important to note about this is this concept provides for a single point of auto access and that would be coming in from Myrtle to the north west of the site and then coming back out at Myrtle and that's important because having a single emergency access point restricts the number of units that you can provide on site and so we think if this was the concept that we went with that we'd maybe be limited to a total of 130 units, 100 multif family, 30 single family units on site. It also having that one access presents challenges with your sanitary sewer. You would need a list station

which comes with a pretty high price tag about 2 to 3 million in current current day. So that's one option. But what I want to emphasize on both options are you'll see the trails the black dashed lines. The idea is that we we not only keep those trails in a lot of the the natural space, but we expand upon it and add more connections. So that's out that option out and back. So the next option is called the through hike, meaning you've got an access two access points, one at Myrtle on the east side and then one on the west side that comes out by the medical center. It downplays the number of easily developed acres kind of balancing it with it maybe providing some park open space uh land instead provides more trails and what we have to consider in this option is if you if you are to go through you'll be crossing a stream which requires a bridge that comes with a 3 to 4 million price tag and you'll it'll involve negotiations conversations with the adjacent property owner Northbin Medical Center. And we don't know what those costs would be. We know they're open to to talking, but there's likely an additional um cost to factor in if that were an option that we went with. But it does potentially bring in that additional Northbend Medical Center land that could be developed to offset those costs. These are just some images. This one on the left is the site. It's the the team walking through it recently. It's very beautiful. It's when you're in it, you'd have no idea. You're in the middle of Kuz Bay. And then some photos of other communities of like what could housing development in that area

look like? Maybe you front the the front of the houses's front on a uh trail, not your normal uh just type of development or setup. Some other just inspirational images. We've got Mingus Park, the amphitheater. You know, maybe you could provide another opportunity like that. A bridge kind of a um a more na like it blends with the environment as well as an example of the medical office of Thompson Road. how the design tries to blend with the existing environment. See next steps for this project. I've got the QR code up here on the screen. So, if people have their phones, they should be able to click it and get to the online survey. We're having this community meeting tonight. We'd love all the input we can get. Moving into May, the consultant will take take all that input, really start to hone in on the site concepts and complete the financial feasibility analysis, and then this project should wrap up at the end of spring, early summer. So, having said all of that, if there are any questions from planning commission for me, happy to take those or the consultant. Um, Paul is online if you want to jump to letting people give their comment that's good too. Why can the second option be gravity fed but the first station at the crossing? I I think it just has to do with the topography. And Paul, if you want to chime in on on that, that'd be great. I did not hear the the question. Could you repeat it? Sorry, I don't think my microphone is on there. Um, with the first option you you

require a lift station, but with the second option it can be gravity fed. Does that just have to do with the span at the crossing there? Is that the Yeah, it has to do with the elevations. So, the site slopes down heading from east to west. So the high point is at the east side near the myrtle access and then it's all downhill from there till you get to the ravine. Um and so that means that if you have a single access and you're not crossing the ravine at any point, you can't just have a pipe running over that ravine. So you'd have to run the pipe back up the hill essentially. And so that's why for the option before this um Chelsea, the out and back, that's why there's a lift station that essentially would collect um any sanitary sewer down at the uh sewage down at the bottom of the hill on the west side and then bring it back up the hill where it could join the rest of the city's gravity flowed system. Um, with the next concept, the throughhike, um, a different engineering solution is possible because you're building a bridge to cross that ravine. So, if you build that bridge, then you can gravity flow the whole way. That saves you money on not having a lift station, but it incurs a new cost, right? Having a bridge. What would the what would the cost of a bridge just to support that pipe, that outflow pipe be versus a bridge that would handle two-way traffic and all that good stuff? That's a good question. It's something that we've talked about a little bit with our engineer um in terms of doing a smaller bridge that for example is like emergency vehicle only. Well, even even uh like a pedway type if we're developing trails in there, you could you could uh double a pedestrian bridge and a trail with that pipe there, right? Yeah. I I think there are pretty significant cost savings that are

available. Bridges Bridges are expensive. Um the estimation that we're using based on our engineers experience and recent numbers is something like $500 a square foot. Um, and so the longer it gets, the wider it gets, the more expensive it gets. So, yeah, if you could pair it back to something smaller and still, you know, safely run, securely run a pipe across there, meeting sort of like seismic standards and things like that, then it could potentially save money. So, that is something we're going to look into. I don't have an exact dollar figure um to provide at this moment. What I would guess is that there's a sort of fixed cost that you encourage just by building a bridge and then from there you would be able to have some savings by have it be uh be be smaller essentially. I have a question. I'm a little surprised I guess obviously you guys know what you're doing but that you could have that many units with only one access egress point. Yeah, it's a great great point. We've we've talked to is it Amy Linder the fire marshal? Yes. And this is the uh this is her interpretation of the state fire code is that with a single point of access you can do 100 units of multif family which might be you know two or three apartment buildings depending on their size. Um and then um some single family homes as well up to 30 of them. If you sprinkler all of the different um structures on the site, you can go a little higher. There are exceptions for that, but it falls within the discretion of the fire marshal. So, I don't think that that's um that's not a provision that is like a guarantee is my understanding, but I think state fire code does allow for 130 as the maximum um with a single access. Thank you. And just to be clear too, there there are all sorts of other rules around like for example how sloped the access way

can be and things like that. So um there are all sorts of safety considerations that would go into making sure that the fire marshall felt comfortable with being able to serve the site in the case of an emergency. Um I was just a little bit concerned about how you get in in and out of that site. Um Myrtle is it's a older older homes up there, smaller streets. Um that Myrtle Kingwood area is uh kind of difficult to get into and you'd have to dump out on 14th with your traffic. Um has any thought been given to um accessing it through Northbend Medical or through Bay Area Hospitals? itself um to get out or to get out to Thompson Road quicker. Yeah, there's been Yeah, Paul, I'll let you take it. Oh, okay. Um yes, we have looked at a variety of different access ways. Um so, for example, um going a little further north on the west side of the site. Hopefully that made sense. Like more into Northbend Medical Center's parcel. Um the ravine crossing is wider there so that makes for a more costly bridge. Um we did look into potentially going north into onto hospital way. Um it's a privately maintained road that serves as backup house for the hospital. So there's some potential conflicts around like their operations and traffic flow. It's not an immediate route that um uh that seems conducive to a lot of in and out of uh of car traffic just because of speed bumps and um it's where the ambulance drop off is is on sort of the back side of of the hospital there.

Um that said, we are exploring some other options beyond this. Um, our engineer is interested in the possibility of creating some other access that does run north but doesn't flow necessarily through the hospital in the same way. So maybe accessing 14th um in in some other way without going to Myrtle and then over to 14th. I don't know whether or not that would resolve the concern though. But yes, we've explored a variety of situations and for different reasons, this seemed like the most plausible from both a cost perspective, but also from handling traffic. I have one more question. I I guess I can't figure out where the water goes now. I mean, obviously I've been we've all been all around this property and I don't any bridges that I know of to I mean to take it to Pony Creek or whatever where it would go to. I don't know. trying to figure out where where all this water ends up. It's they the streams and stuff that you're talking about bridging and so on. Oh, are you talking about um are you talking about storm water or are you talking about the water that currently flows in the ravines when I'm talking about the water that's on this property that's flowing somewhere? Yeah, the ravines. And so that but it but all around it there's paved streets. I don't know of any bridges that carry that water where the water could exit from to get down into the Pony Creek basin. Yes, good good good clarifying question. The um the water that we're talking about conveying uh in a pipe on the bridge that would be sanitary sewer flows. So, not storm water flows. Um, so that would be like folks flushing their toilets or um, you know, using their shower, using their sink. That water would head on a gravity flow um, sanitary sewer line out to

receive treatment um, by the by the city. Paul, I I think if I can clarify a little bit more, I think what Commissioner Berg is asking is saying he doesn't see a lot of water flowing over the hospital property right now. And I think that's because it currently is fed under through a culvert. There's a it those streams are flowing through a culvert under the property into Pony Creek. Yeah. And if they continue to do that, I guess and Jim, that like where those trails are right now in there, it's a super steep draw and down at the bottom of it, there is a little creek down in there, but it's it's really close to just kind of standing water. I think it just kind of seeps its way down and and but I was just going to say it didn't it I just didn't see any bridges around there for this these torrens to go out of property. Yeah. I I don't know that it really flows through there really. It's it's more like marshy almost. Yeah. And I guess so that picture of us walking day just a week or two ago and it was pretty good amount of water was going through those ravines. Um, but it's the difference, Paul, you can correct me if I'm wrong. It's a difference between a bridge, which is less impactful to the the stream in that habitat environment versus filling and putting a covert in. Um, and so right now they have some areas have been filled, they've placed a covert, and that's how the water's running. And that's a different impact than a bridge, right? But but I'm just saying that's right. That's right. The water's this natural water that's up there now. Yeah. Still has to go someplace. Correct. And it must be going through culverts. Yes. Okay. That's true statement. Yeah. In some situations, we could consider a culvert to serve parts of this site, but often times the ravines are so steep that you would need to go down significantly and then back up in order

to have a culvert in place, whereas a bridge would sort of let you go across. Um, and so from a gravity flow sewer perspective, uh, that going down and then coming back up doesn't work. So that's why we opted for a bridge in this particular example relative to the culprit solution which is used like Chelsea was saying on the hospital's campus where this stream sort of continues north out towards the bay. Yeah. Okay. Any other questions for project team? My understanding if if private equity does come into the picture and the board abdicates its responsibility with this hospital here um the title to the land is going to remain with the board throughout the duration of the lease or partnership whatever it is with private equity but they're going to retain the private equity firm will be essentially running the hospital and and in control of the building and all that type of stuff. Will this will this land be I I saw it said that the land will still be titled with health district, but I don't think that's in question with any of that land there. I think it's all going to stay. But who's going to ultimately control this parcel? Will it be private equity if we do end up going that route? No. So, it's our understanding from the hospital that it would be the health district, that board would maintain control of what happens on this site. the entity that currently owns them. Correct. Yep. And it's part of their current conversations with they're having right now as we speak in another meeting across town. Yeah. Okay. Do you think it'd have any effect on the

the daycare or the church at the the east side of that property? Yeah. So Paul, if you recall, there's a large church up there. Do you how do you feel the impact of an additional, you know, hundred units? What would that impact look like? Well, I mean, uh, it would be a change for sure. Um, I think depending on, uh, you know, where the development actually occurred within, for example, that yellow area, you could end up actually not really seeing a lot of the development because it would be ringed by, uh, green space. Um, since the ravines would um, you know, in accordance with environmental law have to mostly be left alone um, and and kept away from. just from a development standpoint to um would be something that a developer would typically avoid. So it could be that those facilities have significant visual buffers from the site and so I think that that leaves the question of traffic. Um and uh I think if you're talking about the through hike scenario, you have the possibility of traffic tending to flow toward woodland. Um, so heading more to the to the west rather than flowing into Myrtle and over 14th. Um, really depends on folks destinations, but you would at least have a secondary path for folks to be going. Um, but regardless, you know, if there are more people living in the area, then uh more people would end up using the roads. What I would say for the church and for the daycare there is they're surrounded by a community of hundreds of people and those people sort of cycle past their their building in their cars or on foot. Um and so I would expect that it would look a lot like that but there would be more people. Okay.

Can you uh tell me there's those two options through hike and out and back? Yep. Out and back. Okay. And I was maybe a little confused on the number of units in each of those proposals. Yeah. Yeah. So, as Paul mentioned, the the out and back, it's really limited by that emergency access and to about 130 units. So the through hike um it you can go more and I think the current zoning density allowance probably caps you around 200 units. Um so that's kind of the difference. Yeah, there's not a strict um density cap in the medical park zone if the development is what's is a mixeduse development. So there's some commercial component otherwise there are density restrictions I think of about Yeah. 12 units an acre. Yeah, thanks Paul. Um yeah. Um but in terms of um the initial question, there's no set unit count that we're recommending in these initial conceptual ideas. Um it's a little too early for that, but eventually we're when we start doing feasibility testing, we'll sort of ask ourselves, okay, how many units could fit in the areas that we're highlighting? um ho how many how many homes and and what type? And then what would that look like from a developer's financial feasibility lens? Um would the number of units that we sort of consider, would that be enough for a developer to have a profitable um uh venture on on the site? And if that wasn't the case, then we would consider that option not financially feasibility or not financially feasible and we would look at a different number of units. The tendency is going to be to um to strike a balance between something

that the developer considers very high value um because that will make the project financially feasible and you can you can achieve that through more units but you can also achieve it through higher sort of uh greater value proposition. So, for example, one of the ideas that we're playing with here is, you know, what if some of the homes fronted trails? That could be a really unique value proposition for people. Some folks might find that really attractive for their household or for their family. Um, it might be a sort of unique thing that that folks could have and that might in turn be something that improves financial feasibility offering those sorts of opportunities for homeowners or renters. Um, so that there's sort of a number of factors to balance here. Uh but that the exact unit counts and the the financials that sort of comes next. So what's what's the end goal with this? Is this going to be subdivided out and lots sold or is the is the hospital board going to just quit hospitaling and get into landlording or what what are we trying to do with this here? Um you want to take that one? Yeah, Paul. I mean, I don't think there's an end goal with that. This is very like concept what could be done and then how that's done. I think our our consultant will make some recommendations of what makes sense, but I don't think the hospital has a this is a very clear this is our plan for it. We're looking for some recommendations. Does that you want to add anything, Paul? Um well I think I think it's unlikely that the host or that the health district um will find themselves in a position of developing or operating

um real estate. Um it my my understanding is that the board at this point consists of volunteers and that following an affiliation if they end up doing that. um I don't understand them to have any staff. Um and so I think it's a very good question how it is that this materializes into something else. And I think it's one of the reasons why we're emphasizing partnerships. I think you'd need to find a development partner to do this with. I think you'd need to find community and civic organizations that supported it and felt that it was representative of what the community wanted. I think that's what would drive this forward. for the health district's perspective. I mean, what I've heard in talking to folks is um uh is that they had this surplus parcel and they were wondering whether there was something community focused that they could do with it. And so just answering that initial question is part of the goal of this study. Um you know, they initially thought housing was a community need that they were aware of and wondered whether there was a quick win available here. And so by doing this study, we're hoping to unearth the engineering challenges and the information necessary in order to do a development on the site, whether that's now or whether it's years in the future when the health district has more capacity and sort of a different set of parameters around. So Chelsea, I have some questions and comments from online. Okay. Um, and I'm just going to read it verbatim here. Uh, the streets in the area are already in poor condition. How will that be addressed as part of the development? Then she goes on to comment that Myrtle is also narrow with many cars parked on the street. There's only room for one to pass in the area between 14th and 16th.

Yeah. So, I would say just generally when a development goes in, especially on a large scale, you're looking at having to do what's called a traffic impact analysis. And that's going to look at the the site, the surrounding area, the the road system, and what mitigation, if any, is needed to ensure the city's minimum level of service is maintained. So, I I can't tell you that the streets are all going to be upgraded and widened. I don't know that's the case but there will be an you do analyze the impact to the existing system and look at what kind of mitigation is required to to maintain your level of service. Do you want to add anything Paul? Um, the only thing I can think to add to that is from the fire marshal perspective, their perspective was Myrtle was the street that they could run a fire truck on and that wasn't true of um some of the other sort of adjacent roads that potentially touch the site, in particular Pine Avenue. Um, and so that's sort of an initial threshold that we look towards is is where the fire marshall says that they they can fit a truck. and Myrtle does meet that um that standard. Okay. Are there others? Okay. Did you want to open it up for questions in house? Uh yeah. Do we have any uh any questions from the room, comments uh from the room or or online? Um, I've been about everywhere in this town on my bike. Um, when COVID hit, I got nuts on bikes and I used to do all my grocery shopping going from Empire down to downtown. And uh that area right in that you know that strip there where the where the hospital

is and that property there it's there's ways you get around on your bike on that because it's there's nothing easy there you know but the location of that is really good because if it's done properly people centralize there can quite easily go into Northbend if they go to Walmart they can come to downtown Kous Bay um it's it's a good central location and I think the getting in and out of that area can be worked out. You know, things change. You know, the way we everything's set in its place. And the only thing I'm getting against anymore is I don't like um I don't think uh suburban sprawl is doing us any good in this part of the world. Um there's a big shortage I think in the the missing middle, you know, the forplexes and the and uh condominiums and and smaller housing. And as well as people are aging and me myself I you know I've got a nearly two acres I think or acres whatever I don't want it anymore. I'd like a nice little tiny home somewhere where I don't have to mow anything or you know look after that much and there are a lot of people like like me on that. Um so I I think it's I think there's some good great potential here. But I think as always it blends in with transportation. You know building the house is one thing but you got to be able to get to it. You got to be able to get to where you want to go. And if everybody drives Ford F-250s, we're going to have a lot of problems. But, you know, if we can all just have a balance of transportation in the area, would be good. So, that's my 10 cents with I think it's a good idea. Thank you, sir. Any other comments, questions? Is there any action from our end that we're looking for at this point or um No, just giving your asking your questions, giving your input if you have any input to offer. Also encourage commissioners as well as the public to

take the online survey. It's a great way to do that. Um and then this will come, this comes back to council for just consideration to do, you know, approve it. Um, so this is your opportunity to just give as much input as you want. Thank you. Commissioners, any any more comments or questions on this uh this item specifically? Um, the only thing the only thing that jumps to my mind is uh I was uh piling brush on that site in 1970 and I was told that it was Bay Area Hospital. So that's 55 years ago. I don't know how long they've owned it, but it's a gem of a piece of property. The reason nobody's developed it because it's so difficult. Um, but uh it's a Yeah, it's right in the middle of everything. It's it would be a nice nice site to see developed if it's done right. I think to to two of those points there, the idea if it's done right, I think that, you know, having the health district own the land gives them some potential leverage over the vision. So this conversation um and this study is an opportunity to try to frame um a developer's understanding about what the right way would be. Um and then in terms of the difficulty of the site, absolutely. Um we've started to unpack some of the financial challenges um through highlighting a couple of the unique infrastructure investments that would be needed to serve the site. That's just the beginning. It's it's a challenging site. There's a lot of slope on on the site and um and it it it would I think take a lot for um a lot of hard work to to get it unmarked. That said, what we um the idea that we brought up within

our project team is, you know, it's uh we'll see what's potentially feasible today, but we should also be asking the question, you know, will something be feasible in 5 years or in 10 years? And can we um can we get all the information that's needed um in order to make a reasonable plan for the site out there in the open so that at some point in the future, somebody can take a run at it. Well, we appreciate you guys coming on and and uh filling us in on this and um yeah, thank you very much. Um moving on, if there's nothing else from that, um any uh planning commission comment on anything else? Nothing. You gota have something. Yeah. Yeah. I'd I'd like to say um thank you, Mike, for mentioning we only have we're supposed to have a meeting once a month. I' I've brought this up to city council before and it it it's not in their charter that it's required. A city council meeting is required once a month, but not a planning commission. But I would like to see the planning commission meet once a month. I think it's important. we we should be kind of the leazison between the public and the and the city staff and and uh I I think just for transparency it would be good to to have a to have a meeting meeting once a month. So you're in my you're in my ballpark there. Thanks. Nothing amazing. This comes back to the the project that's being proposed here. And I this is my own ignorance is I don't know enough about what's going on with the hospital at this point in time. And I'm just wondering would a development like this

be better thought of after the hospital finally makes whatever their plan is? I mean I I don't really even know what they're I know they're looking for somebody on the outside to come in and help them. Um, and I can see just I'm looking at Google Earth and I can see the topography and doesn't really fit in with the hospital, but it just seems like maybe we should wait and see where the hospital settles because I mean that's in my opinion since our economy is more and more based around retirees and retirees need medical treatment. Everybody needs medical treatment and it's harder and harder to get around here. I think that a primary goal should be making sure that that's functional. But again, I don't know how this parcel fits in if at all. I understand the health district says they don't need it. But then again, at the same time, the hospital doesn't even seem to be solvent. So, well, and I I think sounds like this is, you know, everything looks good from 50,000 ft. And I guessing that that's about as close as we're going to sniff. They're going to look at this project at this moment. I think I think you're right. I think they've got a lot on their plate right now and but yeah, go in and and figure out some some highlevel stuff and and it'll sit on someone's shelves for a decade or so and then someone will pick it up and maybe run with it. And one the other thing too is I just looking at that uh oh I remember when we did that when was that a year ago year and a half ago the housing needs analysis we had several meetings on it. It seems like 604 new rental or units basically by 2040 does that and how many are going in on the Lindy Lane project? I can't remember over there. 140 is what we've heard but I don't know. I think that's right. Isn't that 400

when they get done? Oh, that's right. It's a huge number. Possibly 425. Yeah. I I I don't think this little patch of land up there by the hospital is going to have any impact on the needs of today or 10 years from now even. I think that's that's going to be a tough tough road to developing that. there's um and who knows healthc care needs may change and they may need to shift that for something else in the future but I think it's a good it's a good thing to look at and and I'm glad glad these folks are are doing it but well help me understand is who's actually doing it is the hospital doing it or is it is the hospitals kind of turning it over to city to do it or you know who's really in charge here it's it's I'll let Jess just to reiterate, it's the city's project, but it's is in partnership with the hospital and the state, right? Yeah. That's that TGM program that Correct. Yeah. Yep. So, the health district said, "We're not going to use this patch land for anything." They reached out to the city and said, "Hey, is there something we can do housing wise with this?" And the city's looking into it through with the DLC. Well, Jim, you can back me up in this. I I heard that they're not making any more land. It's It's uncertain. Well, well, I I I guess my point to that is that they were going to make America bigger again as well. Some some of these sites that um that people have looked at before and said, "No, nobody ever developed that." I mean, the West Hills of Portland and even in Eugene were good examples in the the 70s and 80s is this will never be developed. It's too steep. It's, you know, steeper in a cow's face. It's not

going to ever happen. Well, pretty quick you find out, yeah, somebody takes takes it on