Historic District Review Board - Regular Meeting

So, um I guess let me turn it over to the applicant because you guys have been working on stuff and um you know we can give give our reaction to what you've been proposing.

Well, like I was saying earlier, this was this was kind of what we came up with in order to uh appease you folks. Um more modern, much simpler. Um we lowered the roof. We try to line up the roof with the lower end of the depot. Um so now the roof is glass. There's a wire mesh there, but it's glass. That is the height. High is 14. 14. So it's shorter. Yeah. Because the other one was with that on top it was 18. Um but

the volume um or not the volume but the square footage and the placement is otherwise the same.

Yeah. I did straighten out the I did um uh straighten it out a little bit just because it did make it a lot of sense to um since we weren't trying to match it up close to we had been um and then we changed the um the overall entrance mainly. Yeah, we took the advice given the Hastings Todd. I don't think you were here, but um the suggestion was to really teach to bounce off of the Hastings.

Yeah. Yeah, I've been there. I know that that area. And I, you know, at first I was a little little, you know, I got an ego, but I I' I've kind of grown to uh to like it. Um it's it's exactly what um been talking about. This is a more meth, you know, sort of industrial working man,

working person. I'm sorry. Um, and I've had a I've actually had a lot of fun with it. Um, this it it it makes it simpler. I did check to see uh you know the feasibility of of making the economics work for us being that um you know the the outer structure was was much uh less to construct. Um but this this I like. Um, I tried to cut down on the the glare of the glass by putting in a uh a metal um mesh.

Chicken wire glass or is the mesh applied? No, the mesh is applied on the inside on the interior of the glass. Right. Yeah. I don't think chicken wire and glass is allowed anymore. Yes, it is. It is. Yeah. You can get You can get chicken wire laminated glass. Yeah, because I I know that was considered fire rate until Yeah. I mean, it may not be it probably doesn't meet the the whatever the standards are today, but for a decorative purpose, you can still you can still buy it. It's extremely expensive. So, the the chicken wire is attached to the interior face of the glass.

It's actually more than a chicken wire. It's more of a perforated um metal. sort of it's like a mesh. Okay.

Um that we can apply on the inside. Um because one of our main uh even though it's so heavily treated um we were really concerned about having that much glass in a ceiling. Um and and especially during the that west facing side. Um but it is pretty heavy. Um, so in in the situation that if we were to have to uh we could always do interior shade um uh you know like I'm recogniz or else the other thing is you can tint. Yeah, I kind I I I tinted this at from the very beginning and I've done tinting before and tinting tends to have more reflection than a non-tinted glass because it will have to have it'll have to be tempered. Um and and that gives if you get if you do it in a sapphire glass, you can still get that the clarity in. Um, but from I'd spent a lot of time in uh in in Scottsdale land some in in Palm Springs and the tinting uh although it works great for for the the interior of the building, it's not such a great thing for the exterior because it does have a tendency to reflect light.

Are you looking at the Starfire glass? Is that what you're looking at? That's coding Starfire. So coating. Yeah. Yeah.

Um I just think form of this is simpler. Of course, you know, I I'm in love with the the the first design and then the second design, but this is this is great. Um this is something that we can we could really use. Um, I didn't add any light uh to the um because the original one had an 18 gutter that ran all the way around it,

a copper gutch and so I did put um a light underneath that so we could get a direct light down. on days this will just have standard uh they're like a standard rounded six. Um but I uh I um I'm I'm pretty happy with it. The only thing that's not on here is is one uh door that would be on the south facing side and that's an access door. It goes between um the restroom building and and we just need a server back there for it. But that nothing um nothing changed. Um we didn't want to change it too much because we've already passed zone. car planning. We don't want to Yeah. have to go all the way back there and shut all over again.

Um my first thought is I think that I think it might look better with a bit more leaf pitch. Um you've got your door the doors are This is set 65. Yeah. Like I I think I would like it better if I could I grab that your pen if it came down to the

Yeah. What from the street? It kind of simplifies that. Also, if the roof came down to basically the point right there stories right above the door, have this like octagonal. Yeah.

Yeah. The the um reason for doing that was really to add a more just to add a more industrial sense to it. Um, typically if we were looking at it, if I had more, um, I think I could still do it and that would be for those those to be able to open up for ventilation.

These this series of horizontal those were going to be operable. They can they they can weave or I was going to take a series up possibly uh six of them at the very top and have those open for um ventilation. Um bringing that down. I think right now it's at 8 uh nine. Yeah, we're about about 10 ft on the face and we go up to 14. So, we're at about a six degree pitch. Um, and I think that's the truth. I thought I thought by raising the face of it that extra that you would see less of the glass of the roof. Um,

yeah, that you that to me would be the glaring part that would take away from and and so you're getting a a more interesting facade than you are actually seeing that much glass. It's definitely a little It's definitely a little There's more to it with that element. It's a little Franklidd right to it. Yeah. And I think I just um I don't know a little bit of a steeper pitched that just feels

What do you guys think?

I'm um I think generally the direction of this feels to like it's not trying to be historic, but it's not. So I like that. Um, and as far as, you know, pitch and proportions, it's I think the drawings I think that could be finessed since I'm not sure if it needs to be that I would need to see sort of more details um or like a greater um like this elevation for example, if we could cut out the buildings behind mind it would be easier to sort of look at holistically. Um so maybe in the next depending on how everyone else feels but in the next iteration if the drawings are tightened a bit then if it's like a thing or if it's not such a thing.

One of the things G that you asked me not to do was to like go into so much like yeah for for this meeting. Absolutely. I I'm I mean I I I probably spent, you know, 18 hours on this just at this point. Um we also talked about before I started those those signs would be where we talked about it would be where I was sorry I was not here for that the the last Oh, did you see where I because I kept the one sign right where it was. I see this here. No, this one right here. This one over here. Oh, okay.

This is exactly what it is now. And then I put that one. It's actually in a more prominent um place. It would be here. And he's proposing to shift it here. Okay. The Cold Spring sign. The second the second. Yeah. The wooden one. Yeah. And the the stone. And the way I my takeaway we can all but was that um for it's not up to us. that they go through as far as what

like moving it and where it would get moved to and if it's on village property. Um but if there are series of locations that it could exist, one that was proposed was at the um end of upper Maine. Uh the lower main, right? Upper main where people are coming off the train and congregating right about the bottom of the bottom of main street. Yeah. I just got confused. I was like 90 Sorry. The bottom of upper vein as opposed to the top of lower vein. Yeah. Um,

what I what I found and I'm sure you you probably have read it as well because is that there's a there are multiple documents that read that the sons of the revolution in 187 something like that um donated it to uh Cold Spring and they placed it at the at the intersection of what they called Rail Road Avenue maybe

Avenue and Main Street. That's where it was placed. It was placed now. Now it's you know what's people square but um cuz railroad goes east west same as Maine. My thinking is even if it's in its original location now for whatever reason and we're able to, you know, confirm that the new proposed location, I would be open to that. And so somewhere in between the entrance to the tunnel and the visitor center bathroom kind of thing concrete area. Yeah, it'd be a great place to

Yeah. Something else we this that we found this later but this was a drawing that was done that has it in a completely different spot than it is now just that there seems to be a precedent. I mean this this is obviously drawn but is it I think photo it's a colorized photo photo. Yeah, I think that's a photo. Oh, it's a photo colorized photo but it's still in a different spot. So where is it in that? This one's This one would be It's close but it's facing a different way. It's facing a different So it's facing the tracks, right? But isn't it facing the tracks now? No, it's facing a village now. Up the hill it's facing with the track. Yeah.

Configuration. It's a place where I mean it it makes a lot of sense to me that if you're going to have a something as important as it is Yeah. I think it that you give us some prominent bite. Well, it's not like we just need to talk to the village. Yeah, we have where that that's a good image. That's a question for the village first and then maybe review like in permission like based last time it's not my property. We know that. So, so it could be actually location.

Yeah. I would propose if we're sort of getting ready for next steps that the site plan comes back and there's an existing site plan and a new site plan and the existing clearly shows where all these elements are which I think you've already read for your zoning etc. and the new puts it in this proposed location or maybe there's two proposed locations but that's something that then is exists to be able to be discussed with with us but then with the It solves your problem if it's the building input. I did leave this this is this is the same footprint that we had before. I think it's Yeah.

Um nothing nothing has really changed on it. Um uh why is it double? What do you think? I don't know. Are you Well, I I'm just trying to hear what Lauren thinks.

Um I I appreciate that it has a smaller scale. No, I think that'll um help, you know, as you're walking down Main Street and you kind of relationship a little more. Um I think I'm questioning the the pattern in the window. Yeah,

the pattern in the window is actually it's it's a graphic that my computer picked up because it's it's really not that what it what my computer did was blew up these the holes the peripheral the holes are only about uh maybe an eighth of an inch in diameter. So this would kind of read as a screen. Yeah. What it did what it what it did was when I shrunk when I expanded it, it blew up those little tiny holes. And I did that at I did that at 6:00. Oh, that Yeah. So, it's it's really the same as it is on the wrong side. Okay. I was just wondering what that was. Oh, the next iteration we just need.

Right. So, that is like a traditional sort of pick and wire. like a one in a one inch hex or something or No, it's like um a hole like a circle like a bridge perforated metal. Oh, so it's almost solid. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of holes. Yeah. Very small. A lot of metal and a lot of these are exactly the same way. And I apologize. Wait, wait, wait. When I flew them up, they they blew up a lot. So,

I think you definitely need to want to see a sample of that. So, this pattern is is here. This pattern is is this is this the same one that's um can I have one of the inside? You can actually get the the um the mesh itself. Well, the holes are about this thick. That was a lot. So, when I when I expanded the window, you see they're really building it out.

And the reasoning for that is to add some texture to make it more industrial looking and to help with sun shading. that that's my biggest concern. It's going to be hot there. That sun is going down because the west side just it cooks. I think either end of the building would be lower than any other I had. Yeah, there were a couple. So, one of the things about the Hastings place that we sent you, it actually has like a brick brick foundation at the bottom. Um, which is missing.

Oh, yeah. The corners. Well, like um let me say I was I was really um trying to to not commit to any kind of stone or brick at this point only because I figured whatever I did pick there would be a lot of discussion about what it was. rather than putting in any kind of stone that they had on the format. Um because they have like a stone brick. I guess I'm wondering if you'd be open to having some

I know that would add that would add a lot foundation. Um so depending on the height and right now this elevation is showing that the doors don't have a bottom right. It just needs to be finessed. There has to be some sort of base and some slab or something that it sits on. is falling. And so then maybe it's the next iteration. My one of my concerns is the it's at least so hard to present the space without it feeling cluttered. Um um and so it could help to have some sort of skirt um so that there's not sort of a field of tables and like a knee wall like a brick knee wall basically something like that. the other.

Well, I am correct. Am I correct? You have a a stone wall that's along the the street burntly on the restaurant. Yes. But we this over here is accepted. All right. So, so to that point, one of the other things that we talked about. So, can I This is what you're showing here. This is the fence, the MTA fence. Yeah. Is that what this is? Yeah. Wow. I'm sorry. I I was trying to get it out, but when Hunter did this, it already blocked

and so they so I couldn't get rid of the I couldn't just play out the fence. It's part of the car. There's a wall, you know. So, kind of what we were talking about last time. There's a there's a roof that comes out here, right? Or does it come out from here? And then there's a wall, then there's a fence. So, we talked about kind of um in hardcape sort of marrying these two together. This actually is um a a like a steel thing. And the FDA fence or something you're proposing?

No, it's be like a ride on. We got the Everything does that's the top of it. The plastic fence goes and plastic fence goes a metal fence being Yeah. across connecting Lego. Yeah. This is it right here. Yeah. Let's see inside.

I know. Okay. I just got to Are you able to look on the um file on your computer? Sure. Sure. Pull up some Sure. I'll see if I have any still on my phone, too.

Um I do appreciate also that you changed the roof um to kind of be more in conversation with this building. Yeah. You know, I was I was trying to get it um uh so yeah, it it just lines up a little bit nicer. Do you have any opinion on the roof? Anyone after my comments on the roof line or the pitch of the roof? For me, I think it's the next iteration. I think this is big picture. It doesn't have the det.

How does the pitch of this roof compare with the that bottom skirt of the of the of the building?

Uh it's pretty close. Uh that the pitch on the on the of the depot is probably close to between four and six.

When you say four and six, you mean four over 12? Yes. And and let me sort of summarize what uh what we've been talking about. Uh and let me ask the board members. Are we Oh, yeah. Just curious what the Oh, yeah. It's like a sack stone wall back in the bar. Yeah, basically what I'm talking about these circles would be about uh an age is it possible to have a get a sample?

Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, I wouldn't think that you wouldn't want actually. All right, let me ask this question. Um uh just to give uh feedback to the applicant uh are we all pretty much in agreement that this is the direction that we want them to go?

Yes. So uh it it'll you know it'll allow you to continue going in this direction. Um the questions that we are now looking at was that the pitch of the roof. Um and is there you know some something along the bottom uh which is either brick which would match the brick of the building or stone which would match the the stone wall that is out in front. I think brick is the way to go. that stacked stone is not in any way like

we want to get rid of that that stone that black stone wall anyway okay by the bar it doesn't it does not go um for what we're looking and I I think incorporating brick elements into this whether it's a it's a a knee wall around the whole structure or post in the corners or something like that I think that would go very well what it probably would do is like a maybe only a a one Because if you do a knee knee high,

um it's a it's a becomes a trash pit and a gut gathering for people to sit and eat their ice cream and throw the trash on the ground. Well, if you have a wallet, anywhere anywhere that they can actually rest their their rear ends on, they will sit on and be I mean, if it's one course of something. No, that's what I'm saying. If it was a knee wall, he's right. They would lean on it, but it's a planting bed. Is is it not going to be in front of it? I don't think it still be a wall. It could be like a coarse thick, right? It could just be like Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, I think what we're suggesting or talking about is more of a solid base of just some height rather than glass all the way down to inches from the floor. Right. Right. What we could do is we could incorporate it actually into the structure. Yeah.

Because I don't in order to for us to for us to build this and attach it directly to a to a slab makes it much more solid. So if we were then to incorporate a brick in between and have the windows start a little bit higher. Um, I we can do that and then do like a plate above it. Yeah.

Um, yeah. I have a retail place in in Milbrook and it has two stone walls and it just becomes insane with people sitting. Yeah. I don't I'm not suggesting a a when I'm saying knee wall I simply mean a solid structure like I mean you know up to roughly that height. I'm not suggesting anything with any depth that anyone would even be able to sit or lean against. Um it's more just to give the building

uh kind of an anchor a um like some heft to it so it's not doesn't appear to just be sort of floating on the ground. And I think it'll tie into a lot of obviously the depot itself and a lot of other buildings in the town. So even though this is a contemporary take on something, it kind of does nod to Right.

I'm going to just to keep the design options open for you all. For for me, I don't know. I would love to see that and see if proportionally it's achievable. I think there's an elegance to the longer painted glass and the height and it might feel severed a little bit and so there could be a version where there's a um a lower glass element that just has a a fritting or darker color or something that is able to shield the interior um but still allow the glass to feel seamless. I mean you um yes

another way to resolve that might be to eliminate the um metal in in this gable part and have this just be glass. You can keep the roof shaded. Oh, I think that that should go I think that should be clear on either end of Yeah. Yeah. I think the roof I get I get the differentiating between the roof and Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise I think it feels like a hat that's just kind of And that doesn't affect Yeah.

in any way. Um uh but how do you feel? And we made the comment about the that extra it's like 18 inches above. Um I and again the reason why I did it was to add more element to the to the facade of the building and then to also have it be a a lower spirit rather than sitting as much as I think from most like most viewpoint and maybe not most but a lot of viewpoints of this building are going to be from an elevated position. position anyways. So, you're going to be looking down at it. So, I that that part doesn't to me um really enter into or wanting to see less roof doesn't really enter into it as much for me. I think like with a with a simple with a very simple gable roof, a this a steeper pitch is just more elegant and less um shedlike in um you know the way that you go to Home Depot and buy a gable roof shed and then and it's like a very shallow roof. So I just think a a bigger pitch on the roof is more elegant personally.

Well, but no one has really echoed that. So well I I while I hear you, I I think that the more important element is that the pitch of this roof matches the pitch on uh on the roofs of the building. Yeah. And we if if we did that we it would definitely take it closer to a eight. Um if we dropped it if we dropped it 18 plus inches it would it would definitely take it into

I guess we would need to know what this what the what the roof is obviously then what the pitch of both roofs are right. Are you talking specifically about this roof not that roof? this and it looks like that they're the same pitch but you know this is the element which I think is important to carry over to the Sure to the Again that's probably that's probably close to a a four. Can we have that called out on the next round of this both of those roofs? So we Yeah, maybe it gets closer to this. Yeah. I mean that's is that the Can I see that?

That's about that's about this is more of like a three. Yeah. This is a much steeper roof than this. This is diverging some. I'm not convinced that it should get steeper yet. I'm not right. So, let me make a list of the things that we talked about and otherwise there are not any pain breaks. This is one each each of these segments is one vertical pane of glass, right? Yes. And the roof is it looks like there's it's two. It's two. And you may introduce you may introduce some operable like louver types along the ridge line, right?

Yeah. Um the main it being uh over like being over 12 um you can't have especially in a roof you can't have a 12t long sheet of glass but it's not split in the middle that's yeah okay it it would be on the on the upper side of it and then just add the element um for the cap was Um just again for a a more industrial look. Yeah. Mhm. Um

yeah, it's a it uh it's it's you know quite common when you're dealing with your typical was needed some type of Yeah. mainly for water leakage. And you don't want two pieces of steel coming together without having it capped. And you may as well make it tapered this if you can. When we saw somebody that put together the original design, we went see it and they just put steel to steel like it leaks. Like no

I mean, it was really kind of funny because the guy was just it. Well, I was just wondering if we should add more.

Well, I what I've got is that, you know, obviously there's an issue about the roof line that needs to be developed further. Uh there needs to be some sort of base along the the bottom. uh and and that's something which uh you need to work out and we recommend brick incorporating some I mean I I personally if it's possible to see these iterations as you work if you're working through some of these ideas like the next time we see you if it's possible to see some of these iterations I feel like that would probably be helpful for us because we can, you know,

well, just remember that ultimately when we take a vote, we can sit there and, you know, put a comment that it's approved with the following changes. Yeah. I just I I mean I I think Yeah, we're g this is going to be public hearing. Like there's probably going to be a couple more meetings. I I just I actually think it might streamline and expedite things if we see like some you don't agree. No, I think being on the design side sometimes there's moments where you want to share and moments you don't want to share. Yeah. It would be at your discretion of course.

You know your computer with other stuff. If something comes up you can say I tried that it didn't work. See here it is. that that's kind of what I mean because like I was just I brought my computer last time because I I wanted to show you different elements and and and it's also just much easier for you to see. Yeah. Um actually, yeah, with these renderings, it would be like by the time it's printed, I think just having your computer will be be helpful.

I mean, I and I'm just like I think the roof is a perfect example. I personally feel that it needs to be pitched steeper. Some other board members don't. If you we come back, if the next time we see you there is one version and it is one or the other that doesn't necessarily satisfy what whoever you know like so if it's possible I think that would be valuable at least for me and I think they also need to take a stand in what they want. Sure.

But as I said, the the main thought with this was it seemed like most of you were in line with if we get it you we'll get it almost exact, but to match the roofs of the depot. That was the whole point. Yeah, that's where that's where where I took it uh up to almost 10 by adding that extra element and then rather than having a sheer piece of glass that goes to the roof line, that's I thought the extra element of

the the the upper window um adds a lot more to the building. Um, and then it also reduces the amount of of them the the pitch of it. How are you envisioning heating by cassettes? We would do cassettes um that would be hung from the ceiling that would be above ceiling height. Um, well, I guess that that's the one question. I'm just assuming that there is no hung ceiling inside it. It's all the underside of the It will be exposed now. Yeah. Yeah. And rating heat.

Yeah. Yeah. So the floor would be rated. And is there cooling or no? Yeah. Cooling would be a six. Yeah. Okay. Um the cassettes now are operating really really well and and I mean you you barely you barely see them. I I just did lozerella and fishtail with and I did the entire front dining room with six of them probably ceiling. Oh, it's and they're great. I mean the remote control each one is under their own remote control.

I think the harder detail because I agree. I think they're great now compared to where they were and they're they're pretty solid generally. Um, but if the ceiling is exposed glass and they're hanging sort of what that element looks like from below and through the windows from the windows, but the Al's question, so I'll give it back to you to it. You wouldn't see it. You wouldn't see it from the from the outside because they would be above that um that first break. Yeah. So they would be in that area of that 18 in they'd be above that.

Um okay now uh the other thing that we do need information on placement of things like uh the stone in the flag pole the sign we we see the sign here one of the signs. Uh are are there anything is there anything else that we need to I would request again they have it already the existing site plan which is very clear in the presentation to zoning and a new site plan that is equally clear that has those elements placed.

Okay. All right. And but I just want to be specific as far as the items that were concerned about relocation or placement. I think we currently on it at least placed in the existing and then shown to be removed in the new going to be removed acknowledge that those are changes. Are are you do you object to where um the wooden cold spring sign is between the building the new building and the restroom building here?

Yeah, there's the bike right there. Is that a metal sign? Yeah. No, it wouldn't. You're saying the poles are metal. I don't know what those signs. I think the sign is metal. It's metal. Pretty sure it is. Um I'm not As long as it doesn't look like it's between two buildings. I mean, it needs to feel and like that's as long as it doesn't look like it's shoved between two buildings. It needs to feel like there's enough space for it to breathe. Then um otherwise if it does it's really not that big of a of a if it looks like it's just squeezed in here then I would say maybe even here would be nicer. So it's in front of the glass

and sort of branding that there's building as part of that building. Um that maybe I'm not sure yet but that could work. Obviously not in front of your door. That doesn't look these two trash cans. Mail boxes. The current probably right in front of the um it's right in front of the window. They are they are there. They're right there. They're in front of in front of the um commerce.

They're right there. Um, this is just drawn kind of not correctly, right? Like all this asymmetry happening in in here. It's especially in the c the the upper part of it. Yeah. Graphic scaling issue, but I just mean the way that the glass is the gl the glass on either side of the door. It's it's not rectified. No, no, this is me um at 11:30 last night putting those in. So this the other thing that was you we don't want to see the metal. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. Or on the sides and the upper portion.

Well, and I I thought that that was that you know this continuing around at the gable ends. I guess it would only continue at the if it continued technically it's only that first 18 inches and then above is TBD. But I'm not sure. But why would why wouldn't it fill the area of I mean that's the proposing it does. Yeah. I think these guys just don't I don't like it there. Well, the thing is is that again that that graphic is not correct. Yeah. It's going to basically solid. Should be open to seeing what it looks like when it like seeing an elevation that's drawn to scale and seeing material and then

Yeah. I mean, I think that kind of goes to my point of like having being able to see different versions of things because the way I am imagining it looking, I feel like it is not I I I think it would look a lot better clear, but maybe I would rethink that if I saw it. I think that,

you know, I think in this vision of it, it's just basically going to be nearly solid block with like a ton of tiny dots. I'll get it I'll get it to where you can because I I really do think on the ends. Um it would it would add an element of interest much more so than if it was just even if it were brick on the bottom. Then we have brick on the bottom. Then we have a sheet of glass because we don't have that extra layer of upper window. So then it becomes a whole uh glass and then another triangle.

It's just it's in my opinion it's not part of the roof. So I don't know why it would match a roof element. Yeah, that's I mean it's not an ideal situation, but it's like it's not part of the roof. So to me it's like it would be like shingling. You have a shingle roof and then you're shingling sides because you're trying to cover something up. That's how I would read that. Well, I I think I think that basically if you take whatever the element is along the long facade and and do the entire end, at least that becomes a a uh complete element and you know, it's like a hat on top of the roof.

That's what I in a negative way. Yeah. Well, it's a very strong design move and it it um aesthetically I'm not convinced right now, but depending on the application of the material, depending on how it's united with the glass below, it could look okay. So, I'm not I mean, I might it might not, but I'm open to them trying to solve it if it helps with e.

I mean, I agree it to to to the point of not seeing HVAC equipment hanging, but at the same time, um, building systems are building systems, and I may rather see building systems hanging than have something aesthetically kind of not work right with the building, the way it's constructed. Agree with that. I think maybe we could get there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, agree to disagree. Um, all right. And is there anything else that you guys would like?

I just wanted to clarify with this the roof situation because when we left last time, it was try to line it up with the depot and now we're getting different. I I so well that's that's me saying about the pitch but I think I mean that the height of the roof I think for sure everybody is in agreement is definitely much is is correct now I think it's more a matter of the the overall design of it and dropping the pitch or increasing the pitch or not um well that's what I'm saying is if we just say hey we got we got the pitch of the lower roof of the depot we're going to match it the same pitch on this one that should be like that's settled then if uh if settled one then

just be able to have a couple concrete like hey these are things we have to do we can just do that done no problem have to talk about that again the thing is is that uh ultimately a design needs to be uh integral with to itself yeah you know we can talk about certain elements and uh I um individually but ultimately It all needs to come together. So I I don't think you can sit there and say, uh, well, if we do this and this and this, you know, that's it. We don't revisit it. That's not find one thing that maybe we could hit and say, hey, yeah, do that.

Well, I think the most like there's a lot of different variables to all this. Well, I I think the height of it and the configuration of it definitely I think we can all agree that you know definitely in the right direction for sure. Um we think the pitch will work. I'm just until it is like a puzzle until the rest of it fleshed out. It could work but the other elements make it not work. So I would say yes. Let's assume but be open to adjusting it if we realize something else is now canceling that out. Same for the for the next set. Okay. We're going to make it the same. We'll see how that goes. That would be my

And you're saying the same as the porch or the the awning roof, not the roof of the main building. Not to be the same. Yeah. Again, that was that was the conversation that we had. Right. Then also th this probably should be drawn to show the like an extended the awning or well it's more than an awning is actually post down and then

yeah I I mean I I think going back to Kate's uh comment it'd be nice to sort of have a drawing of the existing conditions and then you know what you're proposing. for the rest of the patio. Well, like an elevation. Yeah. Well, for example, this is not a correct elevation. The fence, the roof line, all of that stuff. Not exactly. We should do that. Yeah. It just becomes a question of of knowing, you know, for example, I didn't want I don't think that's going to change in near future, right? Am I correct? Well, the fence they're going to the fence we did talk about.

Okay. But I mean, you know, everything else as far as the the bar outdoors, that's not going to change, right? Well, now not proposing. So that, you know, that's what we're trying to do. Just trying to get an idea of this is where we're starting and this is where we're going to end up. And and trying to kind of marry, right, the two together. So yeah. So, if there's some sort of fence or a low wall or something that would be good to show. Okay.

Yeah. And all elevations, I think, of the of the new structure. Um, so the lighting you said was you were kind of limiting the the the exterior lighting to just at the door that you grass. Okay. Um, is Yeah. Okay. So, the screen on the interior of the roof is obviously going to block a lot of sunlight, which you need, and also block the uplighting from the inside of the building. That was kind of where I was just working out in my head. Okay,

this is an all glass building. Understanding the light load. This is question last time as we figure out the light loads on the interior as far as impact on the exterior at night with the lantern effect and like I'd like to make I'd like us to ensure that it's calibrated to our guidelines. Yeah. And so it's not too bright. That wasn't settled. Oh, that was on the planning board. Yeah. Light load just Yeah. the the lighting and whatever the watts and how bright it is and all that. Yeah.

You might also have specifications of the brightness. I think and our design guidelines talk about what types of light are acceptable. um light obviously a unique thing because it's a glass building which we don't I don't know any um let's let's ask our building department expert um so the planning board does typically ask for a lighting plan I know that what they ask for is whatever that's called that night friendly midnight friendly whatever size you go

and I gave that to them But in the uh original one that we presented, I I gave them entire light plan down to the each fixture for the exterior. Uhhuh. So I guess I would have the interior how it basically, you know, will be more light than the exterior light itself because it's a glass building.

Yeah. And that was where I was saying that I corrected it in the last one so that it didn't have any kind of exposure that you would actually see up bulb or you would see we' do it in shades. So the light would come down rather than out. Right. Um so you've already gone to the planning board and they we got approvals from zoning and zoning plan. Yeah. My question is is that when do we want to have the next workshop?

Um I think I would like to uh uh and I'd like to now that I know where you are with this um I think we're ready to go. I think I can give you what I think I can I can give you enough. Well, the our next meeting uh is November 18th. Uh 18th, right? No. No.

18. Oh I'm remote then. Well, so application materials are due on the first for that, right? Okay. But the thing is is that uh their next step would be a public hearing. No, we have to we have to asking for who you were just asking for that, right? instead of having another workshop. I don't think I will I don't wouldn't be ready to vote on having a public hearing at this time. I would need to see much cleaner drawings and materials, etc.

Okay. So then what I would suggest is that we have a one more um workshop and then proceed to a public hearing after that. If you uh one more workshop where most of these questions that we were now raising have been addressed sent to our satisfaction and then we can go to a public hearing. This is steel construction or aluminum.

This is steel. So, okay. I think lock set I mean even you know like lock sets on the door like a detail on how the the a closer up kind of drawings of the operable doors and how those interact um with the surrounding windows and the clartory windows because obviously operable and fixed are very very different. Uh if windows are being proposed in the roof line how that would be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. details

all materials. Um, okay. So, uh, how about the 11th for the next workshop?

Oh, that's a better close. I believe so. The 11th. Okay. It's a national holiday. Yeah, I think we're closed. I'm not 100% sure. So, me. Okay. But uh I mean we're talking about I would say because now we I think we had a major step forward in an hour and I think that we just do

another major step in another hour. So it I mean I I know the the office is closed but does that mean that we can't have any uh meetings? Sorry not do it on the 18th as an hour workshop as part of the overall our general meeting. I think we have a bit of a mostly solar. I think it might be a fence and another. So, I mean,

well, I'm remote, so I'm going to be uh three hours behind you guys. So, I'm good. If it goes to 11:00, um I'd be all right. Um 11th or the 18th, right? The 18th is when we have our meeting. Monday the holiday. Sorry, I'm I'm I'm zooming. We're zoom zooming in from California. Um,

you can't do the 11th anyway if it matters. I have an event that I'm hosting apparently, so I can't do the 11th. So you can't you can't do the 11th anyway. Correct. Unless you don't even Monday the 10th a possibility for the village hall.

You just have to let security know. Yeah. Yeah. The last time we I think it was a little bit of a mess. It was hard to do it like without normal hours and without Abby. It just was a little bit like we didn't record it. We all the lights were out. The cops came down from upstairs, let us in. Okay. Well, like we did it. It was fine. September, I guess. So, yeah. Yeah, it was locked and so we had to get the cop upstairs to come down. It was fine, but it doesn't feel like the boys. Yeah. I mean, if in order for me to join, I would need to zoom. Could we also all just boo that work anyway and we're not making decisions? That'd be amazing.

That's a good point. Al, are you open meetings? I mean, you would still have to vote to adjourn, I would assume. And that counts as you can't vote without being here tomorrow in person. Yeah, Monday should be fine. confirm tomorrow. It's going to be free with the court, but let me just same time 7:30. That works for I'll help the kids.

So, there's no also one random question. The the interior is just movable tables and chairs. There's no there will be a um a temporary uh bar setup that we seasonally movable non-permanent. Yeah. Yeah. Set up as we as we need it. There's at 7:30.

Yeah. Abigail's going to confirm, but I guess we should Yeah. Put it in. Said the 10th. And it's it's quite easy for me to get any to to do all the details um that you're looking for. They're all there. In order for me to construct these um this these buildings, I have to actually build them anyway. Um I use Chief Architect and CAD on them. So the windows are real windows and the structure is a real structure and the doors open and close and all that right now. Like if I wanted on my computer if I wanted to open the door I just hit show open. Um so it's not it's not difficult to to bring in something close and show you the details on it. Um uh but yes, it's what I do every day. So um it's easy. I just I I I didn't I I wanted to bring this in as we planned before put in that much

into that. Uh it will be pretty easy to turn this. Uh yes, it's it would be very easy. This is because the the basic structure is already the hardest part of of doing this is is is building the structure. Well, I I I think that that we have taken a major step from the last time when we met and most and I think that the design is moving far enough along that, you know, we should be able to, you know, see exactly what this is going to look like. Yeah, I I can bring it in in different formats also. Well, yeah. Notebook doesn't have the best printers.

Okay. All right. Cool. Okay. Do we have other things that we need to deal with? Yeah, we do. We have meet uh minutes. Do you guys want to stick around for meeting minutes? Nope. We didn't make you didn't make the cut. We didn't do a bullet point. EOS square walks into meeting. Not on agenda. Politely told not on agenda. Sets up computer. Unsets up computer. I was like, how the hell meetings? Yeah. I most of the time I have no idea what day it is.

Greg works me like a dog.

Thank you very much. Thank you for your input and we will make See you in a couple weeks. We'll make this work. No doubt. Thanks again.

Yeah, just last just last um yeah, I just need to responded with a couple little things. Um obviously we could write a novel about 159 to 161. Uh but I don't know how I mean do we get in

for the 159 one there was Lauren we agreed Lauren would write an email confirming that the building department would review the application prior to us reviewing it and that should probably be in Did Did anyone respond to your No, I don't think they I mean I don't think they've reviewed it. Yeah, I feel the same. Yeah, but it sort of it doesn't matter at this point because he's withdrawing the application. I mean, it's really sort of a mood point because we have the issue whether it was reviewed by anybody else first doesn't make any difference. Um

now it does, right? he needs to show it to the building department first before bringing to us. I mean the hope is that the process now is like it normally is where somebody is like building something and the building department looks at it and then refers it to us not just send it to their deadline for him to do that. Well, but let's just be very clear. I mean the normal process is that it is submitted to the building department. The building department then refers it to us. Now in this case it happened to be a little bit different because we are we were raising the issue

but in in effect that is the normal process. Nothing changes steps. So like is he not going to do anything for a year?

So two things I think to speak to your point. What we at least are concerned about is that we flagged it and the building department just sent it right to us without looking at it and determining whether it needed to go to zoning because there I mean he didn't sub he said what he submitted to us is what he submitted to the building department. That application would not pass muster to build a structure and attach it to another structure. He would need a site plan. You would need all these things to prove that it's on his property, that it doesn't need a variance for the set, all the stuff. That is what we are concerned about that kind of just got like a little bit bypassed because we're the ones that flagged it. That's why Lauren sent an email to them to to kind of qualify. And so hopefully he does exactly what we all agreed, which is resend the application and resubmit it formally to them and then they go through the regular process. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean, we just wrote the email to say making sure like this happens and then hopefully going forward it won't happen again, but we can refer back to it if it does. And then as relates to like how much time he has, I don't know. I don't know. Work order. Is it going to get fixed in five years? I'd like to know what that's what my letter am I not correct that he's been uh cited by the building department? That's not work. He was, but does he get charged fees now or he started the process? So he's like, does he have any is there any reason why he would need to rush through this? No.

So So this is what did you guys read the letter my October update that I sent out I think yesterday or the day before for the violations? I haven't read the updated version of it.

So read re read that. I think it requires some refinement, but it goes it if as relates to this property, as relates to the two other open violations that have now come before us one, two, or almost three months ago and have not corrected the things that they said they were going to correct. Um I feel strongly that we need to ask the village board of trustees to define some standard for when this happens that there is a recourse because otherwise exactly what

the only recourse we have is to the village imposes a exactly that's what I'm asking and I think that if somebody comes before us or doesn't come before us give them define clearly define a 90day day or a 120day window of time that they are able to you used up your window of time, you were notified on this date, you were reminded on this date and now the window is closed and now you are subject to these fines because otherwise what is going to happen with Cozy Corner clearly Kate told them sideline after the meeting, oh no, you have to take that greenery down too. That was two and a half plus months ago. Yeah, he just

and and it's not happen. He hasn't fixed the sign that he said that he knew that, okay, you'll take the sign down or you'll hang it flush so it's not overhanging the sidewalk. None of that stuff has been done. We're closing in on three months. That was an August meeting. Um the same with the with the foundry rose, which we've now established also that we were point blank to our face lied to about the windows. Those windows were not existing. Those windows were installed by the current tenant of that space. We have photographs from last year and from prior years that show that those windows were full height. So that we were lied to during that meeting. Plus, he has not come back the way he said. I'll be back in October at your next meeting to talk about the fence posts. So I think that our next letter needs to ask the village to set up some kind of standard and start instituting fines. That's my opinion. that set up some standard uh ver verify or uh endorse some standard that we set.

Sure. I think that we need to because uh realistically if you're asking them to make a decision, I think that uh what is it? It's always it's easier to uh get a forgiveness rather than approval. Yeah. So, I I think that what we next step um is that uh you know, I saw Kate's uh one-page summary. I think what we do is we should spreadsheet of all the violations. Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think that we should send it to um to the mayor and the board of trustees.

I need a new letter that actually includes the information, including an update on the other ones. That's what I sent out twice this past week. So, I I would appreciate if everybody looked at it and said, "I agree. I disagree. Can you change this to this?" And and it provides color on what's going on more than the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is super valuable for us internally. Do we do that? Yeah. I mean, I I forgot my laptop. I meant to bring it tonight exactly for that reason. since you're the only one that has this. Oh, if not at shutters to see what we think about shutters. Um, unless

because the other one is the is the old um antique garage warehouse which has not responded at all and we sent the initial letter back in June. So, it's now been five months and there's been no contact from them and they obviously have no intention of dealing with it because it's a major oops mess up on their part. Anyone want a water? One. Um,

that sounds a little upset. um the new letter that you wrote. Oh, because yeah, it's an updated letter including these and I think he's asking the question um posing the question to the village and you give me the timeline so that these I see I screwed up. Well, all right. Maybe what we maybe the uh duration is uh six thank you uh six months and say at 6 months the fines start

well there is a fine that's been specified is it $500 250 or 500 I think it's per day yeah typically it's in look at that we're lining the villages coffers just like that I know more education program. That means we can That means we can double our Yeah. Do you want me to just read this out loud? Hold and you can um I can Apologies for any typos and grammar mistakes.

Dear Mayor Foley and board of trustees, you're writing this letter to provide a new list of properties in historic district found to be in non-compliance as well as provide an update on existing violations. is enumerated. One, 140 Main Street, Macaffford Realy signage installed without HDRB approval. Two, 38 Main Street Sweet Tambourine signage installed without HDRB approval. Three, three Stone Street, Odesigns, signage installed without HDRB approval. Four, 124 Main Street, Cold Spring Hotel. The number of signs exceeds what is allowable by village code as well as existence of non-compliant vinyl sign which is only permissible on a temporary basis.

Vinyl sign on a fence post. Yeah, it's a giant vinyl basically advertising sign on their iron fence in front and we allow vinyl signs for temporary up to 30 days is what our the village code is allows. As far as a quantity of signs, I'm so sorry. I swear I found the code where it said only one sign unless there's a set back of 25 ft and then you can have additional. But we were both looking for that code and it sounds like we got just a freestanding sign if your property set back more than 25 ft. So the only thing that I can see is that it's overall linear square footage

linear feet based on or I guess square footage based on linear feet of a facade. Um and then it I would hope it would be up to us if you have a 30 foot wide facade and you want to do something that's um a foot high and 15 feet wide that's one sign. But if you want to do 15 one by one signs that we could say I don't think that will look great so we're not approving that. I think I added this to the legal training questions because I I feel like the signage thing has obviously come up a lot

recently and number of signs is weirdly really unclear in the village code. Well, and and the problem that the way that we have to phrase this is that we don't have um provenence over number of signs that is a zoning ordinance. Am I correct? But no, in the village code section on sign it sign and plaqueard their entire chapter, right? not related to us or to zoning. It's not clear in the village code. So that's what we need. It's not clear who enforces it.

It's not clear. Thing I can actually say that helps understand it is the sandwich boards because they say your sandwich board counts and let's please not enforce this because this is a little bit too much but your sandwich board counts towards the overall square footage allowed based on the linear view of your building. So to me it's if you have 15 square feet you have 15 square feet and you can have five signs and it should be up to us to determine that it needs to be one sign that's 15 square feet or it can be three signs space because of this is what your building looks like.

I was the lawyer but if we're about if we're about aesthetics then we should be able to say like three signs is really confusing and doesn't work. Yeah. Okay. And does it include, you know, for example, at the corner of Lun Terrace and Main Street, you can get these popup signs. That's it's addressed later. So, I think maybe italicize that one or question mark because I I specifically say the number of signs, which we Why don't we change it to say because there is code that says signs that are for businesses that no longer exist cannot remain unless it's a historic sign. So the shops have historic pharmacy signs. Yeah.

Um but in this case, the Cold Spring Hotel has three signs that all have different businesses. And so there should be Yeah, that's the quantity the business like it says Spoon Cafe, Cold Spring Hotel, Cold Spring Cafe, Cold Spring in I think different the number signs. We'll just sort of leave that for a second and say that um the sign is just not This like guideline or guideline

signage is not indicative of uh um current business allowed which is not allowed by village code something like that. Also it was done without our approval. I don't know. I mean, the s this silver spoon cafe awning has been there for probably 15 plus years, but then they just like inked out the silver and now it says Spoon Cafe. So maybe maybe this can be an example that during our legal thing, which is probably going to take 150 hours, he can offer guidance on act the actual wording to get our questions in order

and give them to him in advance. Yes, I agree. that we aren't spending 150 hours and he knows what we're asking to be prepared. There's a live doc that's tracking. Yeah, exactly. So, if we could when's our meeting? December 3rd. Yeah. So, if we could get everything if we could make sure our document is done by November 15th or something and we can share it with him then so he has a couple weeks to or I don't know. Should we give him more time than that? December 1st. That's uh Monday. It's It's like the first week of December is when we decided to Yeah.

I thought we were meeting with him. Not next week, but the following. No, December 1st, Monday, 17. December. Um Okay. Want me to keep going? Yes.

Okay. So, for that one, I changed it for now to say um we'll frame this out. Multiple signs present distinct and potentially defunct businesses which is not allowed by village code as well consisting of not compliant final sign but should only on a temporary basis. Okay. And then 11 main street Cape Cod leather and culture and candy co more than 30% of interior glass varied in signage. What about the neon sign? Someone mentioned neon last time.

Yeah, but it's allowed. Neon is allowed to be permitted. It does, but I was towing the line between feedback feedback like of going after every, you know, we could add 10 businesses and they may have had that. So, grandfathering something in I think is important. Okay, let's just I mean, Claud has the Well, that's the one where it's like it's brand new. That's brand new. There is Quads that's on the depot signpost. There's a sign for Clauss on the depot sign and that was not requested nor is it on their property. Um you could add that in if you want to just say for now just put claws. I'll look up the address and

there's always going to be more and more. Yeah, I'm a little nervous about having a huge list. Start with the basics that are the most problematic. I don't want to send an exhaustive list of I feel uncomfortable with that and it's too much for me to deal with then why don't I mean you know an exhaustive list includes recent things why don't we start with the the ones that are approaching what we feel is the deadline these recent ones have not even been notified that they're in violation so I think that's important

well maybe that That's a separate letter so that uh you know we don't get bogged down with the the the business about the fines for recent um nonconformances. Um how you want to continue just finish what's in here so we all are really clear on what's in here and we can decide what to take out and add or whatever. Okay. Um and then have you sent that or no no no this is just a working draft.

Okay. So that's the first section basically that weren't approved. And then it says the board is working with the building owner of 159 to 161 Main Street to address the non-compliant and non-permitted addition to the rear facade of the building. We expect an update from the building owner at our November meeting that I do think we need to revisit how what we say. Should I keep on going and we go back to that part? I mean he told us that, right? So should we reframe that as the building owner told us that he would be present an update at our next meeting? Maybe we should say that. Yeah.

I again like I think the next steps he has to go that would be fine if he had gone through the right process but he first has to go to like you want to change as the building owner withdrew his application and told the board that he would resubmit an an a revised application to the building department. new like a brand new a new application to the building department and I like

meanwhile nothing happens and he's out of the door functional space. He's out of the door. He added he had a door. No, we asked if he would be adding a door. No. No. So, he was fine. And then before he came before us, was he with us twice or once for this? Just last just last week,

just before last week, he added a door to the back, which I showed I thought I showed you guys and and it came up. That's why I was like he was like, "Well, I had to add the door cuz it was like getting wet or people would piss in there." And so, I added a door. But it was after he had a stop order. Well, if I if I remember correctly, what he was talking about it, we're talking about the door at the top. Yeah. And uh what he said is that uh one of the options that he's going to be dealing with is where it's just the posts. Yeah. She's saying that after the stop work order was issued a month ago, he installed a door to the current structure. So now there's a door here, not just in there, a frame and a door.

That was our last meeting. Did we fly good to V? It was flagged to the village immediately and they email. yet this shouldn't happen because there's a stop work order and so I don't know maybe Abby can we should say that and they'll let there well they know I but like I mean honestly I think maybe we keep it simple and say the the applicant withdrew his application and we'll resubmit to the building department like kind of hard stop and then at the bottom of this when we get into here is what we would request timelinewise we can be and then you know what if six months go by and he doesn't come back. Hopefully they start finding every day.

Um when is the monthly report do I believe it for the first village board trustees meeting. So that monthly meeting it's when I think it's due probably like this Friday but probably by Monday of the first meeting. So I think this month is November 4th. Maybe some of this should be included in the Well, I I think I think I think that is how we start documenting all of the issues that we have.

So up updates on current violations are communicated to the board in the monthly report. flagging new anything new is a separate standalone letter that we send to the send to them. Is that what you're saying? I think that's probably fine. I think one line that's missing in here is the HGB um told applicant that you know existing addition is built would not be approved. So it's like they'll get really clear that like never That's Yeah, that's important.

I I don't know that we should include it in the monthly report though because I mean we can in addition, but I feel like it should be a letter because we submitted the letter. Kathleen requested that we do a letter, right? And so let's keep going with the letter because it makes it more formal rather than kind of embedding it. Well, the only thing is is that you know the monthly report gets documented uh in the village minutes.

And so I I think that there are a lot more they pay more attention to what they get in the the monthly reports. I think that, you know, we we we should um maybe use the spreadsheet as a summary which we maybe that becomes what we and attach to our monthly report.

That doesn't it's a little easier I think to write out paragraphs because there's a lot of context for some of these properties that is important to communicate. All right. But but the thing is is that as far as a letter goes, we don't want to make it too long. I I agree with you. I think that updates on properties that have been issued violations and have come before us. I think updates on those should be included in any monthly report that there is an update. I think that separately a letter of new violations. I think that should be its own thing since we already did it that way and then it's very clear and concise.

Yeah. Do you Well, how long is this email though? Well, this will be Have we passed 35 pages? Two pages. Um, and we're getting closer.

You would you would if you read the two copies that I know. My gut is that when we see a violation in town or someone comes to us and say, "Hey, my neighbor's building a porch and there's a form that we now have that was requested to use for this." We use that form because it enables the building department to move forward. Um, I think this letter also enables the village to send this letter that we're writing without the violations to send immediate letters out to different building owners and then the minutes allow the board to review holistically and it to get documented. So I think everything serves a different purpose and they all are required.

Um, all right.

Okay. So it now says the board is working with the building owner of 15961 Main Street to address a non-compliant and non-permitted addition to the river thought of the building. HV told applicant um the addition as built will not be approved. The building owner withdrew this application and said he would submit a new design application to the building department. Okay. Regarding other violations from our June 2025 letter to Vbot, the following properties remain non-compliant. On 2931 Main Street, the tenant met with the board at our August meeting and the violations were explained in detail. The board asked the tenant to remove all faux plastic greenery from the building as well as sections of non-approved fencing and IKEA wood floor tiles under an outdoor seating area. Some of the greenery was removed and the floor tiles were removed. This there is still greenery and fencing that has not been removed. The board asked the tenant to remove one thing one hang sorry. The board asked the tenant to remove one sign hanging on the porch railing and to make one additional sign that is projecting over the sidewalk be flush parallel with the porch. This needs fine.

Yeah. Um yeah, I think it should be I think we could just say open items not address are blah blah blah. Like we don't have to articulate what they have done. Maybe cuz they have the old letters, they could see what they've done. Okay, if we're just trying to simplify, um, we could say, uh, while some the greener is removed, they're still granary. We're going to go and fencing. What is Oh,

on either side of the steing area, there's those picket sections that are stuck on there. Okay. Well, some work was done. I don't know. Some items were addressed.

Thank you. greenery, fencing and signage um remain open and it has not returned to board. Yeah, keep it simple like that as as

Yeah. And while some items are addressed, greenery, fencing, and signage remain open. Items and tenant have not returned to board as agreed. We can do one more pass individually by email. Okay. 55 Main Street. The tenant met with the board at our September meeting and the violations were explained in detail. The board asked the tenants to remove alo plastic renew from the side of the building. Henry explained that there is raw private underneath it and said he would ask the building owner to install. Wasn't he the building owner? No, I don't know how important all of this detail is. I just kind of like wrote everything I remembered and configured it.

Install single siding to match the rest of the building. Um go ahead finish that. So that the board agreed the area could get the area could get covered with wood panels. The tenant agreed to come back to the board at the next meeting to offer options to cover the metal fence post that had been installed during the construction of the event. The board agreed to allow the fence otherwise remain intact. Tenant has not removed the foc. So we did definitely say with both of these guys, they both said like, "Yeah, I'll be right back. I'll be at your next meeting." For sure he did. Okay.

Cozy corner. I'm not positive. I feel like it was a little ambiguous because they were coming here to ask us for the awning and we denied the awning and then we were like also you have all this stuff. So that part I'm not sure about but what was clear is what we asked. Yeah. That and also you said come back look into the sign the signage because that was like does the menu count as a sign? Like you have a lot of signage like come back to us. So, so what I didn't include in that is the window thing which is a pretty glaring thing which I this the foundry the windows of the found I mean doclud that should be included rightification for the fabric of

yeah and a lie that was communicated more worried about that you mean sometimes applicants lie to us yeah I mean listen I I I get little like fibs and stuff I get I I I do like it is like like ask for forgiveness sometimes is like better but also I mean it is it's significant to me. You lose you lose all goodwill when you come in here and you and you lie completely completely lie to our faces. Like there's no goodwill left. And that's kind of how I feel about 159 161. Like to come in here like you like you knew you needed a building permit. You knew you knew all this stuff. So I I'm like at this point

I feel pretty strongly that these people should be fined if they don't correct what they've been flagged at. Maybe what we should do is is um slim this down to um things which we feel should you know applicants that who should be fined. Well I mean we have two there's two different things happening here. there's new violations and there's an update on old. Do you want to break it into two different letters and submit because the new violation thing we could send probably tomorrow or Well, no. We want to wait. Well, that's the thing. We just said we wanted to have the lawyer talk about those or to the signage thing or

the number. Why don't we wait for the new violations then? Okay. And then just address the ones that are existing. So, we'll have like a December letter sending out stuff that's not gonna get closed, right? So, we'll have a December letter to them about any new violations. Yeah. After we speak with the lawyer. So, do we do they want is it helpful for the board to understand what was asked and what they haven't done or can we simply say like these tenants these the these people haven't returned to us and they've opened violations? Well, which one are you talking about? Like for the foundry for example, they said that they didn't do it and we have photographic evidence that they did, right?

I kind I mean, especially just because Kathleen was like a member of this board for a long time and has a very significant interest in the look and feel of the of the village in general. Like I I kind of feel like it is helpful to have the details. Um well I mean I I think when it comes to to stating that that we feel that they should have they should be fined. I think you need to get into detail. Okay. So we have not we're almost there right you're saying into detail not about the fine but about what the um what's taking place

what remains open. Right. Well, the the ones that that we feel should be fined, we need to have detail because it may turn into a legal issue and uh we need to have the justification for. So that's why yeah

I think before we say these people need to be fined, we simply need to say here's a copy of our letter from last month and these three tenant these three people need to come back to us immediately otherwise we're going to have to recommend that they're fine here. Here's why I would disagree with that because I think that's that's another step. I think that we should recommend uh you know that they be fined and I would assume that the village board is going to say uh you've been cited and uh the HDRB is recommending that you be fined, you know. Okay. Can you respond to this?

Yeah. So, I think, you know, that that's going to be part of the process that goes forward, but I think that, you know, we need to go on record and saying, you know, enough's enough. So, I do have I think I have a thing about that. Let me get right that last two paragraph. I'm gonna Okay, so I'm just going to read the rest straight through. Um, 72 Main Street, the non-compliant signage at 142 Main Street has been removed. That's confusing because Oh, did I typo?

The board requested that further action be taken at 40 Main Street, which is the apothecary where no response has been received from building owner. Um, the board would like to request that a standard be instituted by VBOT where in a timeline is formalized for building owners, tenants who are found to be in non-compliance to come into compliance. This would allow fines to be instituted in a fair manner for owners and tenants who ignore violation notices and or do not follow forward instructions after meeting with us. The board would also like to request the V that request the VBOT work with Main Street business owners to educate them on the rules and regulations on the temporary signage being erected on village property. Eg at the entrance of the tunnel at the bottom of St. M at the bottom of Main Street where train passengers enter the village. The proliferation of such temporary signage which can be considered both wayfinding and advertising is a concern you're going to hear.

That's a separate letter unto itself. surgery.

So, we want to send letter two and three, right? Well, I I think we should send one letter which deals with uh sort of longstanding uh applicants or applicants who ignore us, applicants who have uh over a period of time not responded uh to uh our requests, we should uh ask the village board to to find them.

So that's letter two. the outstanding violations and I mean these are at all different right one never responded to the June letter, one came in in August, one came in in September, one came in in October. Are we asking them to lump them all in the same bucket or or are we going to say as of this letter submitted on October 30th or whatever, we would like to ask or we would like to formalize or set some standard because I mean I've been on this board 5 years and this is the very first time we've issued any violations. So this is a new this is like new territory for recent memory. Well, re we have in fact imposed fines in the past.

Okay. But the the issue is is that we should probably uh agree amongst ourselves what is the timeline for imposition of the fines. It's so funny because it really depends on the work at hand, right? So like went up and it shouldn't have and you come in and get it cert you know approved or you take it down three months is okay but if it's bigger than that six month seems more appropriate.

All right so then so then what we're saying is that basically it's going to be our judgment. I mean I think I feel like a three-month I think I feel like three months is fair and then further to that if there is goodwill shown by whomever the property owner or whoever made the violation i.e. the apothecary they've they're just ignoring, right? So if like if if they had come to us and then talked to you about it.

No, no, no. I know. But that's what I'm saying where we are able to use our discretion. But a three-month standard set feels fair and then if somebody within as long as in my opinion, as long as like within those that three-month window of being notified that you begin the dialogue and you're showing goodwill and you're saying, "Okay, we will come before you. we're sorry we did this. We didn't know whatever. Like, what do we what do you want us to do? We have the dialogue. Maybe they don't come back the next month, but they come back the following month. Like, and there's a dialogue and and this is all happening. To me, we use our discretion. And but then that's a gray area legally. So, I don't I don't know.

It also makes it hard when people are taking advantage of the system, right? Oh, came in and said hi. But how do you how do you call how do you how do you really allow like Okay. Sorry. No, no, that's okay. I I Let's Let's do I think we need to decide amongst ourselves that um an applicant needs to be fined. I I don't know if we need to to identify any specific objective criteria. I think we just need to feel that it is appropriate. Um

is that question? Well, and then well and and you know I think that we need to be able to articulate the reasons why we think a fine is appropriate. So I think and and I think that is what goes into the letter to the village board uh saying that we feel uh we we have tried to reach out to this applicant and they don't respond or they tell us lies and you know we think that enough's enough and you know unless they respond to us we think a fine should be imposed. within a week.

Yeah. I mean, I think that I guess in this situation, it does feel like with these couple applicants, a bit more of a warning is maybe given to them because I don't think anybody would ever fathom that they could potentially be like have a $500 a day. I mean, that's a that's a very very high number. and to to off the bat just kind of ask for that without like a bit of a warning to these people. I don't know.

All right. So then so then now we're identifying the process. The process is is that once we're pissed off enough at an applicant, uh we issue them a warning letter after they are issued the violation. Yeah. Formally. Right. Well, and and uh don't we have isn't that the case with with these applicants that we're talking about? Well, we sent the letter in June to the the trustees and then as I understand it, the building department or somebody Yeah, we I mean, we didn't send the letter.

They go by Do you know, Abby, did they go by certified letter? Like, how do we know that everybody receives these? Um, that's a good question. I can't I can't answer that. I do know that typically after a while I do receive a response and what they do is um they'll most of the times they'll give me a copy of the violation that was issued. Is the is the response addressed to the village board of trustees or to the building department? Do you know building department? Building department. Yeah, they issued the violin that makes sense. So what what we need to do is go up and beat up Greg Wy. Oh, is he big?

Have to see when you go to beat him up, right?

Yeah. So, they are directed. Okay. They are directed to the village clerk to begin the process of obtaining a building permit. And then they are also directed to the building department's office for any questions or additional information they may need. Which means that the signage that came up for Cozy Corner hasn't actually started the process. They've been given a letter, but we haven't, as far as we know, seen any evidence that they start through the building department. If they haven't died since they were here, But they came in here specific for the awning. So they didn't even get here like you said because of the signage.

Is Linda Valentine's does she still work for the building department? Yes, she does. Okay. Because she used to be uh here. So um maybe what we do um because I would assume she handles all of the administrative stuff for the building. Yes. So, she'd be able to tell us if uh applicants have responded to the summons or the uh violations if they've written back. Sure. But I think a valid response would also just be sending in a building permit. Sure. Either one. Yeah.

If they wrote back, hey, what do I need to do? Or if they submitted a building permit, either way, it would show they've started something. So we need to set up a process where we can double check with the building department to see if if they have in fact communicated with the building department. Um okay. Um so now uh how are we doing with the email? Have we broken it into two parts? It's um it just simply says letter one, letter two, letter two. I can break it into three separate documents. Okay.

But it's I think the the fine thing is what needs to be resolved maybe right now if possible like how how we want to phrase that. Who uh who is it that we're recommending imposing fines on? the I mean I I I was asking for I thought that we would needed to ask them for a standard. I there are four properties right now that are in violation at varying stages of coming before us. So so Apothecary has never responded. Cozy Corner came before us in August. Foundry Rose came before us in September. And 159 Maine what's that? And denied that

and denied that they did the work. and 159 Maine came before us last week. So we're basically in a August, September, October timeline for three of the the people. Okay. And the maximum is five months. And the maximum is since June. Yeah. Which is no response.

Okay. All all of those we should probably put in the uh monthly report. Uh but I think that before we start recommending uh a fine, let me reach out to Linda Valentine to see if if they have gotten back to us for any uh you know or if they have gotten back to the building department. Should we request at a minimum then if we table the fine language for now, should we request at a minimum that the building department reach out to Foundry Rose and to Cozy Corner and to Bordain the apothecary, which are the three that now

Yeah. Do we are stonewalling basically? Well, do we know that the building department took any action based on our referral to them? I mean, they must have because the other ones came before us. Like Foundry Rose knew they were in violation. That's why he came before us. Cozy Corner, I think they did know. They just came to ask us for the awning. So like Yeah. Or just the building owner knew because they're the tent

or just Right. Yeah. So I don't know for 40 Main Street the apothecary. I don't know if it wasn't sent certified. Was it lost by USPS? I that's like a whole other like we don't know. So I feel like we should ask that the building of department. Okay. Then a followup. Yeah. What I'll do is um I'll talk to Linda and see if we can I can understand what they wind up doing when we refer stuff to them.

Because I I guess the question is at this particular point we sent uh our complaints are are recommend recommendations to the village board. But in in in essence, what we should be doing is sending it to the building department. Yeah. If you I guess I just assume that the board, the trustees should be aware of what's happening. So maybe they're CCD, right? because she's the one who told us to write this asked us to write this letter, right? Yeah. In the first. So maybe are you submitting your our our monthly update in the next week or something?

Yeah, I think they do it by Thursday. So you'll So you can copy and paste the text the text about the four sorry the four buildings right into our letter. Four scoundrels. The four scoundrels. And then do we just simply um add a a sentence at the end of that saying the the board requests that BBOT um asks the building department to send follow-ups to these four we can do that. Yeah.

Since that's how it did that's how it happened in June. We sent it to the trustees. They obviously sent something to the building department who sent out these violations. So we ask them at least for now this way and then we have a record a record of you know whatever November 1st um board of trustees meeting our update was yeah I I I think I think that you know we should press on all all available venues or avenues that we have

and then you'll find out maybe from this person at the building department. Like I mean I hopefully it's sent out by certified mail so that there is a proof of a proof of it being sent and delivered cuz otherwise Yeah. Yeah. Where are we? They might not know otherwise Linda. Yeah. because I I would assume that they have a standard process as far as uh you know issuing the violations, right? So what we need is I would say so I'm not saying anything about the fine

I don't think so. I think we're going to follow up. Well, I I I think that what we need to do is start building the documentation for a fine, right? And I guess I was looking at this next update as being some kind of like milestone kind of or like new new start to all of the violations that then they could all be informed. This is our standard.

If you like are show good faith and come before us and start working through this, you're good. But if you don't, you have 90 days before you start getting fined. I think that was kind of what I was like since we've got June, August, September, October, and then a bunch of new ones like I thought that maybe now could serve as like sort of you are all on warning kind of point, right? Uh but I it's it's okay. It's a bit complex. So, all right. Hold off on the fine thing. We can

well I I I think that that you know doesn't hurt to to mention it but um we got to make sure that they have been uh issued notices of violation. Um so you're going to include it on the thing. I'll I'll follow up with Linda and see if I can find out how the what the process is and how we can make it more uh useful and maybe ask her like can the board be copied can an can an email of whatever violation is sent be sent to us? It should be sentenced. It should be sent so we have at the very least.

Yeah. Like if they're issuing a violation, a digital form should be sent to us so we all collectively have it, right? And we can like easily reference like, oh no, this was sent on June 5th or you have Linda's telephone number? Can you give that to me? Yeah. Okay. Okay. One last thing. Uh, and do I have a motion concerning the October 21st minutes of how do we Yeah, I know. We started you added a sentence to building department.

Said applicant to building department. No, that's that's the next step. Um, so a nicer way to say that, yeah, you wanted to say the applicant with Oh, no, it says that. It says that in the next paragraph. The applicant agreed to withdraw his application support to submit supporting materials to address the violation in the near future. Maybe it should say to the building department.

Yeah. So, it's applicant. Oh, I changed it actually in here. I think it's important we make it there. We rejected the application. Oh, right. Did we actually officially vote and reject it or he withdrew it? We formally vote on that or did we not even I don't even know if we did because I think we he just agreed to withdraw it. Yeah, better. But I mean, we could say the board communicated that it that as built it would not. So, that's what we wanted to add.

That's what we wanted to add. Um, do I have a motion concerning the minutes as modified? As Lauren is currently modifying, I motion to approve the minutes. As Lauren is currently modifying, I'll second that. All in favor say I. I.

So Lauren, you're going to be preparing the minutes. Yeah. Who wants to leave this? Do you want to read my chicken scratch? Um, I can read it. adjourn. All in favor say I. I I I moved. Maybe I shouldn't. I've been told some things about my Oh, no. I don't care. Apparently not. Seconded the adjournment. I did. Laura, did you eye the adjournment?

Yes. Hi. And it passed four to zero.