Budget & Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay, it is after 4 o'clock. This is June 11th. This is Budget and Finance. We're in Meeting Room 1. I'm going to call this meeting to order. And we have taken the roll. Everybody signed in. And if everybody will look at the agenda, take a motion to approve the agenda.

I'll make a motion to approve the agenda.

Got a motion by Mr. Hirschman.

I second.

Second by Ms. Jones. Any discussion or additions or deletions? All those in favor by aye. Aye. Okay. bids there's no public comments will go to the review of the minutes and that was uh... last week june the fourth entertain a motion to approve the minutes i make a motion except minutes second motion by mr todd and second by terry herschman and in the additions relations embassies been done all those in favor by for the minutes uh... uh... came down the budget amendments and that would be miss april with school board I promised I wouldn't ask for no more. Yes, ma'am. Is that microphone on?

Is this two of them or just one?

There's two. You have two. You have one for general school and one for food.

Okay.

And I'm going to present Ms. Carling's for her because she's at the... food pick up working the food pickup today so um budget amendment 141 20 26 29 i had to revise two of our state grants um so if we don't spend the money the state takes it back from us so we were able to revise the budget and um spend the spend the grants fully so this budget amendment takes care of that and then i need to add some additional funding and retire a retirement line in the retirement line okay For extra labor.

I'm with you.

And then do you want to do them separately or together?

You don't want to do them separately. Ms. Jones are together.

Let's do them separately.

Okay. All right. So this is 20, 26, 29. Make a motion.

I'll make a motion. Approve.

Motion by Mr. Hirschman. I'll second. Second by Mr. Malone. Any discussions or anything? All those in favor by aye. Aye. Okay. Next one's cafeteria.

Next one is food service. So after Ms. Carlin presented the last budget amendment to you guys, they have realized that they need to pack food ahead of time. And so it was going to increase her cost of food. So she's having to order food about two weeks in advance in order to pack out the food for the summer feed program that she talked to you guys about. the last time she was here. So this, she'll actually need to cover some July food in her June budget. So this budget will take care of the food costs to get her through summer feeding, which is what they're doing right now on Thursdays where the public, anyone under 18 can come pick up bags for seven days. And so this is to supply the food that she's having to pre-pack for weeks in advance.

What's the location that they do that at?

It's at the middle school.

Okay, Copper County Middle School on the Woodbury Highway.

Thursday, it's from 2 to 5, I believe, 2 or 3 to 5.

So Thursday, 2 to 5, Copper County Middle School on the Woodbury Highway.

I think they start, they get there at 2. I think pickup starts, actually, people can get in line, but pickup doesn't start until 3.

Just try to put that out there.

And then she's doing a roster of everyone that picks up, so she's collecting all the information. I think she packed out around 700 people.

last week 700 meals that's what she had for seven am i correct that the more she gets that participates the better for her program right so she can submit that to this um that i think her federal government where she submits food reimbursement and gets reimbursement for all those meals so the larger participation would help out coffee county schools cafeteria so everybody out there if you're looking for summer feeding that's where we need to go

So we're saying that when the last budget amendment was presented, it did not include everything that should have been in it by $150,000. She wasn't prepared.

I think she didn't realize she needed to pack ahead of time as much as they needed to.

Now tell me what that means by not packing ahead of time. If you've got your number and you know who you're paying for, then why does that affect your dollars to pack it early?

Because she needs to order more food.

So this was not in her original budget.

So she was only anticipating maybe needing to pack a week ahead of time, and now she's doing two weeks ahead of time. So this is for her to order food in order to get those bags packed for at least two weeks. And it's just the non-perishable thing. So she just needed more money in her food line and she didn't want to go over. to be able to meet the needs of that summer feed program.

And I love that summer program that we're feeding our people. I do love that.

It's awesome. So anyone that wants to show up and help with that, can show up and help with that. Volunteers are welcome.

The state of Tennessee will pay her back.

Yes. She gets reimbursement for every meal that she feeds.

And the more people that participate. the better it is for Coffey County's cafeteria because it helps her in the numbers. I don't understand all the stuff, but if we promote that, Thursdays from 2 to 5, Coffey County Middle School, Woodbury Highway. Okay. Any more questions? This is 2026-2.

And it does affect her fund balance. You look at the bottom, it reduces at the bottom. She doesn't think the $150 will be all spent, but she wanted to have enough in there to be able to get her through summer. Okay.

But she'll get that back. That's right. If she doesn't spend it, it'll go back.

I'll make a motion to approve.

Okay, I've got a motion. I second. And a second by Mr. Malone. Any more discussion? All those in favor by aye? Aye. Okay, thank you, ma'am.

Thank you.

All right, next one is Ms. Mariana.

I think everybody has a handout I gave you earlier. Two of them. The first one is for the ambulance.

You gave us an ambulance? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Let me see.

It has an ambulance up on top, ambulance phone. Okay. 118. Okay. Okay.

There's an increase in patient collections, the insurance payments we see, $103,509. and then the second line is a transfer from 131 medical personnel to that's not right that says 131 Let's see there.

The 5,000?

Yeah, I can't remember if it was overtime. I want to say it's overtime. Okay. The top one should be overtime, 187.

The ambulance, 5,000 is for overtime?

The medical personnel, yes, ma'am.

Okay.

I think.

Okay. One or the other. Okay.

I think I could have pasted it.

And so then we brought it down here to increase. Decrease that, increase that.

Okay.

Usually overtime numbers, 187, ain't it?

Yeah, it's 187. 187 should be at the top, I believe.

And that's just a reprogramming.

I just don't remember.

I cannot remember.

Too much too quick. Yeah.

So anyway, it's one to the other.

Okay. Sorry.

It's just a transfer for one to the other.

It's just reprogramming.

Corrected. Okay. And 339 matching share, that's the money we get for 10-carat. for our rule calls, we get some of that back. We ended up paying for five quarters instead of four as normal. So that's why that line is increased. That's 32,920. We get money back on the revenue side of that. And then I've reduced the Medicaid subsidy, which goes with that because I had a 208 and We're only going to receive about 187. And then the rest of the money will be returned to fund balance, 36,174. So that'll bring the fund balance to, in the Amherst fund, 1,761,577.

So it raises, and overall it does add to the fund balance. Yes. Okay. All right, this is 20-26-26. Entertain a motion if anybody has any questions.

I'm trying to let them do something. I don't need to do it all. I'll make a motion to approve.

Okay, I have a motion by Mr. Hirschman. I'll second. Got a second by Mr. Malone. Any discussions or anything? All those in favor by aye. Aye. All right, next one.

Next one transfers, and just keeping the budget in mind. The personal register deed, she was over in her part-time personnel, but she wanted to use some of her deputy money because she didn't, use it all so it's a transfer of two thousand one fifty four from her full-time deputies to her part-time so too much part-time user again yeah she did not budget enough for her part-time okay but the deputy line covered it yes and the next one uh county buildings I'm just adding some extra to the county maintenance budget because those lines down in the second half look like they possibly could be short. As you know, with maintenance, it's hard to predict whether you're gonna need it or not, but I'm moving some money from life insurance, 206, down to 335, maintenance of buildings, And then the one for the jail maintenance, there's a revenue item that we have sold some property, $4,050, that I'm going to use that for jail maintenance. And then the next one was a request of the library. They also needed $900 in part-time help. And where it's, there's another one. Where it says unemployment, I should say part-time personnel. Part-time?

Yes.

So it's just a transfer from librarians, 129 at the top, to part-time personnel.

And their fund balance stays the same? Yes. This is 20-26-27. Entertain a motion. I'll make a motion. Tim Brown makes a motion. I second. Mr. Malone makes a second. Any discussions? All those in favor, bye. Aye.

All right, we are at discussion on the budget.

Thank you.

Okay. As of, I guess right now, we're 1.78. Do you all have your this sheet?

I do.

I just got to find it.

Do you have your this sheet? This shows you. Okay. Got it.

Okay, so we're at $1,786,909 is where we're at right now. And none of these numbers, other numbers have changed.

the revenue and the expended tours from what you gave us last week. Nothing else has changed. Okay.

Well, you've got a few. I mean, what you have is the most current.

Yep.

On the left-hand side, that five.

The left-hand side. Yeah, that. Yes. That is current. Right. It shows the projected balance at the end of June. It's $9,339,019. Okay, so we're all talking from the same sheet.

Okay, I do have one question. The projected growth, the $435,000 that we talked about, projected growth over this last period, would that go in on the revenue side or is that already in the revenue?

It would be in the revenue, but I've put the majority of that already in there.

Okay, so we are looking at $1.7 million probably.

I've got a question. Mariana, when you figured the growth revenue, did you figure it from the three different taxation levels?

Yes.

Your uniform, your man check combined, and your rural combined.

Is that projection including a 2% raise that we discussed last time?

Yes. Okay. And then the $100,000, I added that for the two rec departments.

Correct.

But that wouldn't affect the general fund balance. Yeah, that doesn't affect, because it's from tourism. Because it comes from tourism, right?

It still has to be on the budget. It's in the general fund.

Yes, I know it has to be on the budget, but it would not come out of the general fund. Yes, it does. It comes out of the tourism bank.

She said it did.

It is all in the general fund budget. There's a revenue.

But it's generated by tourism.

But it's still a revenue. Okay. Yes.

Yes, okay. But it can only be used for two things. You can't use it for anything else. Anybody got any questions?

Well, then should we not have added that $100,000 at this time while we're going through this exercise of trying to be frugal and maybe made that contribution at a later time?

What are you going to do with it?

You can't spend it on anything else.

I'm saying if it's affecting our bottom line...

That doesn't help a thing. We cannot spend it on anything. If we could shift it to employee raises, oh yeah, let's not do it. If we could pay our electric bills with it, yeah, we could do it. We cannot spend it on anything else. So it really does not affect our bottom line.

It's a zero-sum game. Essentially, that's the one thing we really can't play around with. It really can't. Right. Okay.

Yeah, but what's not clear is we did all this before the state changed their policy. public chapter you go back and read it but some of that stuff with tourism you've got infrastructure costs you know a roads all that kind of stuff you know some of the stuff the highway department doesn't pay for you've got um just you know i just want just basic services you provide when you have visitors trash just all kinds of stuff so i don't think it's fair this is my opinion that you just basically have to have a specific thing you're using it for does that make sense what i'm trying to say

You're saying there are other things that are tourism.

These visitors pay a fuel tax that go to highways. We can't do that.

If you go back and read what they passed, and those are also support services that are provided when these visitors come into town. That's the only point I'm making. There's an added cost to that, too. Like road signs, we pay for those in general funds. They're not in the highway. There's all kinds of different things you can think about besides.

Maybe we need to get our lawyer to look at that, not for this budget year, but for the upcoming or for the future of the county commission. What can and cannot be spent on, even down to the last little, you know.

And look at when we pass that private act.

But does the state of Tennessee supersede the private act?

If you go read it, it's not clear.

Yeah, that's where I would like, you know, if we want to go off on this.

Our resolution was, I don't know. You could say it's clear. It just says you can either be spent on tourism or economic development.

Well, that's not what I'm saying. There's other costs there with tourism.

Is it safer to look at this general fund line right here? Is that the best line? You got all this stuff down here. but we generally need to look at our general fund revenues and expenditures. Okay, let me tell you what we got here. The budget year ending 2025, the general fund estimated revenues I'm talking about the prior budget year that's already closed, not the one we're in. We estimated revenues at $26,571,335. Recommended expenditures were $28,871. That's $2,299,842 difference of deficit that we budgeted. budget before this one. Much larger than the one we're in and much larger than the one we're talking about.

And the fund balance still went up.

Correct. So, you know, I don't think nobody's head needs to explode over the numbers we're talking about.

That's why I gave you that sheet, to help you all understand this. Mm-hmm. Got it.

And then you go back and look at the columns. You've got to go back and look at the actual audited revenues, the actual audited, not estimated, but audited expenditures. And that's where all this comes together that Mariana plans out by being conservative.

So as I look at that same handout for 2026, I see a fund balance still going up to $10,000. But that's based on the 1.4 million figures.

You've got to use these new figures on this, okay?

So it slightly goes down.

Well, she made the statement the other night that people are hurting, and I agree with that. Right now, gas, and if you look at cost of things that are delivered – Because of fuel costs, everything's going up.

So I've always felt, even before getting on the commission, that whether in the private sector or the public sector, that if you, an employee, does not get a raise that at least matches inflation, essentially you've gotten a pay cut. Because your pay does not go as far and... If you get a 2% raise and inflation is 3%, then you've actually got a 1% pay cut because the dollar that you were making before doesn't go as far because of inflation. That's why I would like personally to see a 3% raise that at least comes close to 2.8%, 2.9% inflation rate. I can put that in the form of a motion. I make a motion that we go to 3% raise.

Make a motion to 3% raise. I'd like to discuss it a little further.

Do you want me to tell you how much?

You would need to add $158,036. To that. To this number here. To your 1.7. To the additional 1%. That includes payroll taxes, too.

Okay.

So $1,944,000.

I was born to.

What was the total value?

My calculation is $1,944,935, but I may be off. $1,944,945. $945. Thank you. Okay.

Who seconded that?

Nobody did. I have a motion.

I second that motion.

Okay. Ms. Jones seconds the motion. I'm discussing. Okay.

Now you can discuss.

Yep.

Okay. I just didn't want to knock the 3% out and say it. First of all, I think we need to take care of the county employees because they're first. I mean, they're the ones that keeps the county moving. And I think the county employees are more important than the nonprofits. And I think we need to take care of the county employees first. And the projected cost of living going further into the year is 3.8 to 4.7. It's going to be worse. And the insurance cost, I don't know exactly what the percentage. Is it over 10% now? It's over 10%.

It's 10.

Yeah.

But it's six months.

Yeah. So I don't think even a 3% is going to cover the county employees.

I've got the first half of the year covered. Okay. So that would be January to June next year. And that depends on what policy the employee picks too.

And I still think there's more ways we can save money. I'm sure there's wasted money being spent every day. If we really looked into it.

I'll tell you, I've said it. I've spent a lot of time in my office looking at this.

There are LED lights in here. Every county building has been lit by LED lights. All through? Yeah.

They gutted them when I was here the last time because Robert Gillum did these. They hot-wired the tombstones and put everything in with train and stuff.

The train package has saved us a bunch of utility costs. And they come and report every two years.

Well, I think we need to look at all the total cost that we're going to give away for non-profits and look at that.

Pull up page 20. In this pack. Do you remember that y'all have this one?

Yep, the new pack.

So the first section is the Rural Fire Department. Same funding as last year, because we put the extra money over in Rural Capital Projects. Rescue Squad, same thing.

You ready to cut them, Commissioner Brown? I'm not seeing.

Well, I think the county employees.

I mean, those are non-profits when you say non-profits.

Yeah, I understand, but the county employees need to be paid. I mean, we can't feed everybody else and let the county employees starve.

This is it right here. No.

The one I gave out for the.

And our senior citizens.

What's it look like, that one? Okay, hold on.

Well, then take it out of the general fund and pay. Just pay it.

I don't think I have that one.

The one that was given out at.

You had it for at the commission meeting.

It looks like this. It's in your box. Okay. Did you check your box? I put one in everybody's box.

Go out there and put one out there and get it.

Somebody didn't pick one up. I'll take some of yours. I can use this.

No, I don't know. There it is. She got it. Page 20. Okay, honey. Thank you.

Start at the top.

OK, here we go.

Rural Fire, same funding as last year. Rescue Squad, same. Vocational Training Center, 84. That's a little bit of an increase. Hearing Resource Agency.

Mary Ann, speak into your mic, please. I'm not hearing you.

You won't hear her anyway.

Yeah, I want her to speak, though, because I'm taking minutes and I need to hear this. I'm trying to take minutes, and so I need to explain some of this, please. Please be patient with me.

About a minute. Does it magnify my voice? No, no.

I just need to hear you hear.

Okay. So.

Page 20. Okay.

And it should be rural fire department at the top.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm with you on that one.

It's not. I'm sorry.

But fire department went from 15 to 35.

The top one ought to be the rural fire department protection, 527,000.

Rural fire department. I'm right here. Rural fire protection. And that's where she is. Okay. All right. Okay. And then looking at the lines, that is the same as we have funded them. So they're, they're good. Okay.

Where I wanted to go is tourism to make sure all those items you're good with those amounts.

Did we put $10,000 in for the soapbox derby?

No, it was $25,000. I changed it to $10,000. That's why I want to go through this.

There is $10,000 there.

There's $10,000 there, but we can talk that out.

It was $25,000. It was.

It was because that gentleman told you to look at it.

Yeah. I changed it.

Yeah, you did. You did. Remember that man told you to look at that? Because we wanted to give, but we were being a little generous.

What I'm thinking, he said he had the money for this year and would do it next year. That's what I'm thinking he said.

He said that.

What I'd like your motion was is to provide it to them this upcoming year. That's what I thought.

Yes.

I didn't go back and look at the meeting, no.

You're right. This coming year, but I reduced it. Yes. I want you all to look at it. Yes. That's right. No, you did.

No, you did.

That's all I'm saying.

The $10,000 that we give to the conference center, that's still...

And what is that for? To the conference center just because? Because we use, I mean, we use, but why do we? Now that it's under Manchester and it's not even ours, so what are we doing?

We own 50% of the property. We're trying to take care of the real estate.

Okay.

We actually agreed to spend over $150,000 on it, but they never did come through with the HVAC invoices or anything. Me and you own a house together. Me and you both need to keep it up. Right. That's why I looked at it.

I understand.

I don't want that little spot to go away. Right.

Right. Conference Center's team.

Let's see. There's the Manchester.

And then there's that 50, okay. Yeah. And then the Bridge.

South Central Tennessee Tourism. And then Tourism. Heritage, both of them, 35. And then the Tallahoma Rec, same as Manchester.

And that's what you had decided.

That's what the 137 was. Mm-hmm. With those amounts.

We're generous.

We've cut a whole lot of donations out.

and I feel bad about it.

What about the smoke alarm money?

It's over in Rural Capital Projects. Fund 171. It's not in the general fund. And then the last one is contributions to other agencies. Those are the ones we did not give to you last year.

Where will we find the contribution to the dead stock animal removal?

I have moved that down to a different line. We took it out of the... Agriculture.

Yeah.

It's in 58400. There it is, $57,000. $57,225. $58,400.

Yeah, that's it right here.

I just moved it from agriculture.

I'm with you.

You guys see the electricity at the Joint Park substation that we're having to spend $60,000 a year because we still don't have enough tenants in it to consume the required minimum amount that Duck River put on us to build the substation for the park. They would do it, but we had to make up the difference if they're not getting the revenue So that's why I like to see more stuff in that park.

Whenever they get enough people in there.

I don't know that it ever does. There was a year. We may have to look into that.

You need to look that up. It's close. Yeah, there's a timeline.

Because that was done before I ever came on. Yeah. Because they thought that industrial park was going to be a home run. Mm-hmm.

Remember last year when we were doing this same exercise and someone suggested about TVA money that was given to education department that is not mandatory that we do that? Or is it mandatory that we give that?

How much do we give them for TBA? We don't give them anything. Okay, nothing. We took it last year.

We took it last year. We kept it.

Okay, and so.

They did that a long time ago because it was. Well, last year I know we did.

So we're not giving them TBA money now.

The maintenance of Everton schools, the local support, you have to keep it at a certain level, and that was one thing that didn't have to be ADA.

Okay.

That was like 20 years ago.

Yeah.

But that's money that we can keep. and we have kept it because we paid off their train we did something we're paying it out a little bit so then we can use the contribution back yeah is the commissioners pay added into the county employees pay or is it separate it's somewhere it's at the very first page it's the very first one Because everybody says they're not doing it for the pay, so why don't we just...

Get rid of the pay for the county commission.

You're the only one who says that. Nobody else?

So you're doing it for the pay? We're doing it for the calls, but no.

You're the only one who says that.

I just said I'm not doing it for the pay, and you say you're not doing it for the pay, so why don't we all forfeit our pay?

Take it up with the full commission.

You have to be paid something, I believe.

Okay, a dollar. But that's a whopping $79,800. Well, that's $79,000. That's everything.

We'll see who's doing it. And our county is the only one. We're in the lower tier of pay of any of the counties.

Yeah, but none of us need to pay anyway. Let's do it for a dollar a meeting. Well, I mean, I'm serious.

You can buy my gas.

It costs us to be here, so.

Well, I know, but you're doing it to help the county. We're not doing it for the paycheck.

What is the total number of employees affected by this raise? The number.

About 350. Don't waste my time.

350. Okay. Nobody else is going to say it. 350 employees, but how many taxpayers? We're elected by the taxpayers. We need to protect the taxpayers and their money. You got to do whatever you want to do with this budget, blow it out the ceiling, but I do not want to see a tax increase whatsoever. None.

I have a compromise. Do whatever you need to do. I have a compromise on that race situation. So consider this. This is off of opengov.pay. Highest salary in Coffey County in 2024, it's one year behind, but we could update the numbers, was $198,508 a year. Coffey County average salary in 2024 was $46,859, which is 24% lower than the state average county pay. So what if? I see the balance we're trying to strike. I agree that we need to take care of our employees. We need to protect the taxpayers. Those are sometimes, in this case, maybe competing priorities. So we ride the razor's edge. But to the people that are most impacted by inflation are going to be that average amount. Why not give a 3% raise to people, all the employees that are below that average amount, and the employees that are above, either two or one, and maybe even a three-tiered. Anybody above $75,000 get a 1% raise. But at least take care of the people that are most impacted by inflation, that below average. It's going to take sitting down and crunching some numbers.

You can't make it happen.

Why not?

You can't elect officials and make that decision.

It's a great math exercise, but I'd say it'd be a PR, a morale killer. It'd be a huge morale killer. The other employees feel like they would You know, they just feel like they would need it too. That's my opinion.

So here's how we tried to fix that. Instead of giving across the board, we gave the department heads the money.

And we can still do that.

They were to separate it and give that percentage however they wanted to in their departments.

Exactly.

And that's kind of what you're asking, and that's how it works. But a lot of them department heads did not do that. They gave it to their favorites.

Most of them didn't.

And their selves. And so we've tried. That's why we went to that deficit of $2 million something. I mean, you look at the pay raises we've done here and then the longevity pay that we've done in the last couple years. We have tried to get that pay up for everybody, and they know it.

Especially the ones that are below that average. A lot of that is because the department heads didn't give them the money they should have got. and we can't vote that in via some sort of legislation that would force the department heads to do that?

What we did was we dictated what the department head themselves could take, if I'm not mistaken. The department heads could not take more than the 3% bulk. But, like, straight across the hall, there's four employees over there. Kirk Gray... took the total dollar, let's say, what was our last raise? Was it 5%? Was it the last time? Okay, I'm just going to throw this out. He had $10,000 to split between four, and he'd split it equally, $2,500 per. Cindy, the lowest paid in there, wound up with something like an 11% raise. That 2,500 made an 11% raise for her. but only like a 2% raise for Kirk because he's the highest paid. So that's the way that we handled it the last time. And I don't think the overwhelming departments were fair about it. I can only think of two that maybe didn't do it right. To our opinion, in our opinion, they didn't do it right.

But wouldn't something like that save us a little bit of money so that that deficit would fall some? Because now we're...

It's not going to save you. It's not saving.

It's still the same number.

The gross amount is what you give to the partners.

It is what?

It's permanent.

When you give them the raise.

We've done right at 20% in the last three years.

Yes.

So we were trying to catch up and make sure.

Right but over the past 15 years or 20 years they didn't get nothing Maybe a little at a time So they're still way Yeah, they're not we're still not called up.

We're still not called up the hard part of that that balance is And this may sound rough, but our responsibility to the taxpayers does not mean that it is our responsibility to cushion the salary and the feeling of inflation that every american feels we can't insulate all county employees against something that all americans are feeling we're all feeling it together and the county collectively as well my concern is for those people that are below average if we can do something for them and we just have to wait for the people that are above average because they're more they're more able to withstand the storm But there's a balance there somewhere. There's a sweet spot, and I'm trying to find it.

That's all true.

And what you're saying is?

So many things. Like that gas affects so many things. It goes up, but when it comes back down, it can also go down.

Right.

You can't make it permanent off of guessing about what you're going to do this month.

We know then that we do have employees that fall below $46,800. Correct, Mary Ann? Yes. Ms. Mariano. We know we have employees that fall below that. But once again, it's up to those department heads. Because I... I, in prioritizing this, I would much rather us see us to do what we did last year and give each department that and let them handle their business themselves instead of giving them across the board 3%. And that does at least give them the possibility of addressing this issue of those employees that are below. And that's, yes.

If those people will do it.

If those people will do it. And it puts the impetus on them to make sure that they are getting the performance for their department. It should be performance appraisal.

So you said everybody did a pretty good job with the exception of maybe two department heads. But everybody did a pretty good job of taking care of the people that were on the lower end of the scale. Can we not?

do that again and then in some way hold accountable those that don't do that well it pulls from the authority of the department head i mean we have delegated the authority to run and hire their employees you know they have a better feel for it as i said in our opinion we felt like one or two And I personally had one come to my office. And I spoke to that department head regarding the way it was dispersed. And I related my displeasure with that department head over it. And I don't think that one will repeat. But I do think that was the fairest way of handling it. And you call it across the board. You're not saying individually across the board. It's across all departments. Correct. 3% for every single department. And then that department head decides. And we delegate that authority to run that department, makes that decision, because who better knows, day to day, who calls in late periodically, who works late to help. There's so many factors involved that only... that department head would know. Who's on time every day.

Yes, who's on time every day. Who's your first in line to volunteer to help? That's what I prefer appraisal wise.

Who are you talking about when you say all of them?

All of them. All of them. Every one of them. Like I just mentioned Kurt Gray. He is a department head. courtney mercurio sitting right there she is a department head she takes care of the talahoma library marianna is a department and the elected officials the sheriff takes it and takes it and runs with it i take it and take care of who's in my office it's everybody

All employees. What I hear you're saying is that we as a commission don't have the authority to dictate a cutoff and say everyone who is making this or less gets 3%.

Yeah, I'd say you've got the authority to do it, but do you want to?

But you can't enforce that.

I'm more concerned with them, and if we're in a time we've got to save money... Those are the people that are most impacted by inflation. I'm not saying that everyone doesn't feel it. Everyone does feel it. I understand that. But if we've got to cut or we have to minimize raises somewhere, I'd rather minimize them at the top with the people that can withstand that than the people who make less than that and they're having a rougher time than everybody else. Take care of them. And I don't think that people, the department heads, would have a problem with taking care of their most valuable employees that need the most help.

And they didn't. But I'll repeat once again.

That's what we came on.

Most department heads took the bulk number and divided it by all employees, regardless of tenure. Some, they did factor in tenure. But that meant the lowest paid one got a huge, You're talking about 3%. You'd like to see each employee get 3%. This girl right over here got 11%, OK, because he divided the bulk number. And I don't know any department. There was one department head that took the total 3% or 5%. That department head took the 5% for their raise.

then split the rest of it some whatever magic formula they use but that's that's only one department that i knew did that so this two percent raise that we're proposing in the old one that's already passed the old motion that's already passed that's how that would be dispersed that way

We've got to decide that. I love that. I just love that. You love that method we're talking about.

Yes, let the department heads. We've done that, what, the last two years now?

Yes, let the department heads because they're the ones that know their performance. And it puts it on them to do their evaluations.

Just last year. We did it last year. Let me add, with that procedure, each department head had to give me a disbursement schedule.

This is where This is where that one department sort of had a red flag on it when we saw what that one department had to do. Where the money went.

So they have to give the mayor the— Well, you can come up here and see it. You can see it, too. Okay.

So if we were even to stick with 2%, but we passed it with a— I'm going to call it a memorandum of understanding because I don't have the right terminology— To maybe put it in the right legal term, we'd have to put it in the right legal term. But with instructions of our intent to the department heads is this 2% raise is to be dispersed to the people who may fall underneath this or the best way that they know how to do it. But the most impact, you know, they're going to know what we mean. I've got to figure out how to word it.

Most impactful for their employees.

Yeah, that would be a great phrase to use, and that implies that it goes to the people that need it the most.

If they are good employees and are performing what they should, once again, it's up to them.

If you're at the bottom end, and like she said, and you're 20 minutes late three times a week, then that needs to be taken into consideration. Absolutely. Not only the department. Nothing should be automatic. It should be evaluation by the leads. If you stay weekly, that should be awarded. Right. I like that.

One thing I wanted to add, I'm pretty sure we had the language in there that the department head could not wind up with more than that magic number.

They could split it. We'll word it where the department head could not raise their salary more than the 2% period. And I think with them knowing that the paperwork will be available to be seen at the mayor's office under the freedom, whatever you have to feel like to see it, would shame you enough to treat your employees right. Right.

Of course, elected officials get paid. Yeah. What y'all are talking about. You're right.

The elected officials say it. The state of Tennessee says they're right. Just their employees. That I understand. But their employees, they could go across the board and do their thing, so...

And I understand my doing this may be taking a little bit of time and wrapping my brain around this stuff.

And when people see this on TV, then the more they understand, the better it is. I don't care if it takes 10 hours. The more informed the public is that we're not hoodwinking somebody, that we're trying our best, the better it is for everybody because this is all about them.

I'd be on board with that with knowing that we have a method of holding feet to the fire.

And we did it last year. That's how Dennis found out. At least pull their shoes off.

Well, would you like to receive your lounge set?

No, we're still in discussion. And I want to say, you know, I'd rather say keep it at the three. Me too. I'm just telling you this. With that method in mind. With that same method in mind. Let's do that. Because... you're just barely getting to a cost of living increase. And I'd rather see that. Did you say that again?

3% is barely going to cover the... Cost of it. Is that what you just said?

3% is about what cost. A little over 3% is what cost of living. So we're still under cost of living. Just barely. What you're saying. We're barely under cost of living.

Okay. Then I propose 4%.

Well, you can't do that right now. We're still in this. I'm discussing.

I understand what you're saying. This is a discussion. I'm discussing 4% because a 2% is a slap in an employee's face. I mean, they're not going to get nothing.

That's up to the supervisor. They could get more than 3%. It's 37 cents an hour.

What can you buy, and that's without taxes yet. It's $2 a day. I mean, what can you buy? You can't even buy a gallon of gas. The county employees need to be paid.

And we want to pay them, absolutely.

We're not working hard enough to pay them. Let's say I make $100,000 a year.

Inflation goes up 3%, okay? That's $3,000 that I'm less than I had, right? Maybe I'm not going to need that $3,000 to begin with.

You're not if you're making $100,000.

That's what I'm saying.

That's my tiered approach.

So keeping going higher and higher is costing all of us.

And it's not solving the problem.

What you're bringing up would be solved by the scenario in the office across the hallway there where Yes, was that a 3% raise? It was a 5%. But one of the most valuable employees in there got 11%. So it would be up to departments' heads to take that 3% and disperse it in that manner so that the people who are most impacted by it and the people that are least impacted by it, it's given out that way with that in consideration.

I thought it worked great. Like I said, there was only one example where a department head took the full 5%. And... They had justification for it. And there are employees that have only been in our employee maybe six months. But there's employees that have been there for six years. Only the department head can immediately identify that, not us go through all the 300 employees. So department heads have that latitude, if you will. And I think it worked great.

Tim, so let me tell you this. The elected officials only got 2.6% increase. So they didn't even get the three. But they make a bunch anyway. But they make so much, they don't need it. Which is my argument for the game.

But I just wanted to throw that and let you know that. I wouldn't take a 2% pay raise. I wouldn't take a 10%. If that's what it took, if I was making $100, I would take care of my county employees or my employees first. Because I don't need the money.

I don't know if I need to amend my own motion to incorporate the, I don't know what you call that methodology, or is that how it's done?

No, we can talk about that after we decide on this, how it's going to be.

You're going to have one more meeting before the 23rd or not?

Yes, I will.

Because she's got to make all these changes.

Should have certified tax rate the 17th.

Okay.

Okay.

So 17th, 18th. 17th or 18th. Wednesday or Thursday night.

You can retract your motion if the person that seconded agreed to it. And then you can start all over again on one that – Because you said it was next Wednesday.

3%, but incorporate.

Or amend it.

I'll just amend it.

Restate it because it hasn't been voted on. Here we go.

You're going to restate the motion.

All right, so I'm going to restate my previous motion to have a raise at 3% and to incorporate. I don't know what the name of that methodology is, but what do we call it?

Department heads disperse it at their discretion.

Yes. That will be recorded at the mayor's office. That's exactly right. And it will all be recorded at the mayor's office. For public disclosure. For each employee. Who gets what?

Does this include the sheriff's department that just had a big raise?

Yep, it would.

which is a big part of the whole budget. So you need to think about all of this.

I will say this. There are going to be a lot of people out there that don't get a raise at all. And I'm not talking about county employees, but I'm just talking about people who work day-to-day jobs, won't get a raise this year.

What are they called? Our taxpayers. Our citizens.

Our taxpayers. Our citizens. Our taxpayers.

A bunch of them are not getting raises.

I'll be quiet after that.

The raises given to the sheriff's department was just to make them, to bring them up so that they are paid equal to. So I anticipate that in order to keep them equal, we would have to give them raises as well because If we just leave them out, then they're slowly going to fall behind again, and we'll be looking at the same situation five or ten years from now when we've got to catch them up. I'd rather just keep them where they need to be.

And once again, let the department head decide.

Telehoma City has not given their employees a raise at all.

That's all we've got to do.

Yes, they're getting a pay raise, and it's more than what we're giving. It's more than what we're giving. Tell them the city is? I know the city of Manchester is.

I don't think the town is.

Well, the city of Manchester's got a lot more than three.

So that's my motion.

Okay, 3% to be dispersed the way it was last year's budget, that the department heads disperse the money, and that will be recorded and handed to the mayor. Yeah.

Okay, that's Mr. Malone's motion. for accountability purposes and public disclosure.

And I seconded that motion.

Got it. Discussion done. Anybody? Discussion?

Yeah, I still have a discussion.

Okay.

Insurance is up 10%, over 10%. Okay. I know nobody, ain't nobody cares about it, what I'm talking about. If you don't care, just put some duct tape on my mouth and I'll shut up. No, we care, but this is where we're going. Okay.

I haven't said a word.

I know you didn't, but I hear some others.

Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and talk, and we'll get going.

So everybody. Let me tell you one thing about your 10%. 10% is in part.

I understand. I understand. I understand that. I know that. I know that. It's not taking 10% away from them. It's up. Insurance is up 10%, which is a percentage of the. I understand that. But we've got to take care of the county employees again. Yes. Cost of living, 3.8 to 4.7. We've got the money.

I understand what you're saying.

We don't have the money? No, I understand what you're saying.

We're working against the sheet that Ms. Mariano gave us, Tim.

Yeah, but we've got the money in the general fund.

And it shows that we are that far apart, and we're trying— to do due diligence and do the right thing and all of us want to give our county employees raises but we have and that's your opinion and we still have to be a reasonable people because we just do that's why we were elected to these position to be reasonable And if we're meeting 3% as a raise that is the cost of living, we are being reasonable. We're still below the cost of living. Would we like to give mower?

We're still below the cost of living.

Well, no, that's not what was reported.

Can I say one thing? Anyways.

If.

We're trying.

If this were to go to the bad side and this is a $2 million hit, you can only do that four times and we're broke. Right. What I'm saying is if something bad were to happen next year. If we never collect another penny. No, no, no. If we continue on a $2 million deficit and bad things continue to happen, you can run the fund balance out real quick. If there was an unexpected, it would hit us.

The fund balance is not recurring all the time automatically. From being frugal is the only reason we have a fund balance. Because it wasn't that many years ago, we were close.

They didn't have any pay raises, what, three years in a row? We were close. Wasn't it around three years in a row they didn't have a pay raise? All right, back to the insurance.

Let him go back to the insurance again.

That way we can... Back when it was long time ago.

I understand everybody's stuff's going up, but I don't know if we can ever keep up. I mean...

I admire your passion, and I agree with your passion, and I feel where it's coming from. And if I could wave our collective hands and thoroughly insulate every county employee against everything that every American is feeling right now, I would love to be able to do that. But somewhere there's a sweet spot by trying to minimize it and still be responsible with our taxpayers' dollars. And I think, I would like to think that what we're talking about with the 3% is a responsible balance between trying to take care of our employees and not going overboard.

If the department heads do the right thing for their people.

And still being responsible with the taxpayers' dollars that we're custodians of.

Well, 3% is better than 2%. A 2% is a slap in the face because a 2% is $30-something a month. It don't go anywhere.

But if it's dispersed according to the way we're discussing, there will be employees that are hurting the most that will get more than 3%, correct? Should. And that's what we want.

That's what we want. Am I right?

That's what I'm hoping. If we do it by the disbursement.

Yes, that's all we're saying.

And the carrot out there is, it's going to go public. What you do in your office is going to be out there for everybody to see. So if you take the 3% yourself and split it 3% for everybody, then the person at the bottom of the hill gets less. But if you take 1% for yourself, if you're the department head, and spread the rest of it out to your employees, then they're going to get a bigger raise than the three.

And in this case, 11%.

It's possible.

My first four years, I saw everybody was paying.

Yep.

I had a printout of everybody's pay. We gave out the raises and all that. I tried to discuss all that. We tried to figure out how to get it done. Year after year, those same heads spread out the money wherever they wanted to, but it never got down to the lower people. Now, if they're doing it now, they're doing better than they did.

And we have a way of holding them accountable publicly to make sure that happens.

Most of them did this last time for sure. Most of them.

And I think if I worked in your office and didn't think you were doing it right, I'd go get a coffee oven and show people because that's possible.

Well, I've threatened some elected officials to campaign against me. That's all you can do. Yep.

For our viewing audience, Commissioner Dwight Miller is sitting in the... And we're happy that you're here, Mr. Miller. He's not at a microphone, but he's adding a whole lot of stuff. He has helped us a lot with his experience.

We have a motion on the floor. 3%. It's been seconded by Ms. Jones. The money will be dispersed by the department heads, logged, brought to the mayor's office so all can see. All those in favor by aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. And that puts us at $1,944,945. $1,944,945. That's with a 3% raise. Mm-hmm. leaving everything in the budget that was asked for, computers and stuff. Yeah, we've been through the nonprofits. We took everybody's exorbitant pay raises out, so this will be 3% across the board to be decided on by the department heads. All right.

One thing you haven't said.

Okay.

Would you come to a microphone? Or go home.

You're doing this budget. You're going to hold the tax?

What?

Are we? Yes.

We are not raising taxes.

We are not raising county taxes.

As of right now, there will be no tax rates.

We are not.

This year. Hmm?

That's all you can do. We can't continue to work in the red. We can't continue to go broke. It's going to happen. It's going to happen.

We've done well. We've done good. We would not have this fund balance if we were operating in red. Continually.

And I've said it before.

We will.

We're talking about the deficit.

Been doing it every year. Every year. One at a time.

We way over talking over each other. Dwight, speak.

What I said, y'all need to keep in mind, but Mariana worked and all the people in budget finance to get the debt service down from what we were in 18 to what it is now. Keep paying off bonds.

Just like we did this year.

And not doing more and more that you don't have to do.

That's how your taxes are going to go up.

Courthouse, youth school, all these things. It's coming up. It's right. Coming up in the future.

That's right. But you've got to stagger it out. You can't do it all in one day. Just because you want it doesn't mean you have to have it.

Amen. All right. Yeah, our next meeting is scheduled after.

That's next on the agenda, isn't it? Hey, Todd, I just looked at the numbers regarding how this office dispersed it, and I was correct. Cindy, the secretary, got just a little over a 10% raise when he took the 5% total for the department and divided it by four and gave that same dollar amount to everybody. he wound up with about a 3% raise, the head, with a 5% money to work with. But the bottom one, and most departments, I think, did that very clean. They just took their total number. If they had a full host of employees that are all equally good, they just split it equally. But some of them, like I said, if you had a six-month employee and a six-year employee, they looked at that a little bit differently. It was super fair, I think.

Yeah, I think loyalty has a value.

Absolutely. Big value. Absolutely. And the bottom rung to the employee and to the county.

Right, right. It goes both ways. Yes, yeah. Yes.

Just because you're keeping it flowing, that means good.

That's right. Right. All right, today's the 11th. Next Thursday. She's good with that name. Okay, so the 18th.

18th.

At what time, y'all?

4 o'clock. I like the 4 o'clock. Let's do 4 o'clock. That way they can come straight out of their office and come here.

No, there is an ambulance authority meeting at 5.

No, you need to speak your mind.

That's what we've got to look into. 4 o'clock. And I'll have BZA at 6. All right. June the 18th, 4 o'clock here.

And we'll have the ambulance authority over there at 5. Okay.

4 o'clock here. And if anybody has any input out there in TV land, let us know. Thank you very much.

I'll make a motion. We adjourn.

Second. Motion to adjourn. And Hirschman, we adjourn. Everybody unplug your microphone.

Thank you all.