Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

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I'm talking one minute. I call the March 3rd City of Claremont Planning and Zoning Commission meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. Will the clerk please take the role? Commissioner here. Commissioner Ensu Ensua Ensua Ensua here. Sorry. Good. Commissioner Neim. Oh, present. Chair Colby here.

And Paula Hoisington is not present. Okay. Please stand as you're abled for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, we will get started. Thank you, Commissioner Maywe. We have a small time lag, I think, between Illinois and here, but thank you for joining us. Um, thank you everyone for for joining us this evening. I'll remind everyone to please make sure that your microphone is turned on before speaking. Anyone coming to the podium, your microphone should already be on. Uh, please speak clearly so that the people present will be able to hear you and also the folks watching online will be able to hear you. This meeting is being recorded and broadcast live on the city's YouTube channel which is city of Claremont. Commissioners, you have received the minutes for the February 3rd planning and zoning commission meeting. If there are no additions, corrections, I will entertain a motion and a second for approval.

I make a motion to approve the meeting minutes for I'll make a second. All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? I I I chair votes I. All right. I will delay with that is unanimous. Thank you. All right. Um we're at the the um portion of the meeting where we do ask uh commissioners um and staff for reports. So um I will start with um my commissioner to my right, Commissioner Kramer. Do you have any reports?

Thank you, Chairman Kobe. I appreciate that. Give me one second. So, good evening. Before we begin, I want to briefly recognize a few recent community efforts. I had the opportunity to attend the community meeting with Chief Grac last night and his leadership team as they gathered input for their five-year strategic plan. I appreciate the proactive outreach by our police department and their commitment to listening to residents as they plan for the future of the public safety in Claremont. I also regret that I wasn't able to participate in the recent cheret in person. However, I did my best to follow the discussions online and I'm grateful that our city continues to make meetings accessible both in person and through the internet. That transparency and accessibility are vital vital to a healthy engaged community. I also want to reiterate that I remain a strong supporter of form-based planning. Thoughtful design and clear standards help us shape growth in a way that protects character while encouraging quality development. With that, I look forward to a constructive and productive evening.

Thank you very much, Commissioner Neck. Yes.

Sorry. Uh uh chairman, uh report is uh I was with that meeting with uh Commissioner Kramer. There was nothing said about the PNC, so there's no sunshine law in that, but uh it was a great meeting. Uh I just hope our council supports the our police department. Also, at the city council meeting I was at last week, uh I don't know if staff's going to bring this up. I don't want to take uh their thunder from them, but I believe uh the council wanted us to write a report and ask our input. Uh, is that uh do you have that plan P&Z director? I don't want to

work with the Oh, so you're not bringing it up today? Not today. H interesting. All right. Because uh I believe it was Councilman Bane would want to report from our chairperson. Are you saying no? Strange. I thought, "Okay, no problem." Same thing. We got it covered. Okay. So, we're gonna have a report ready for them even though you're not ready to present it to us if they ask for it at the next council meeting, which is next week. We're working on it. I I'll address that when when I give my report.

Thank you. Thank you, David. I don't want after that. I have no other report right now. All right. Commissioner Ensua. Thank you, Chair. I have no report at this time. All right. Thank you, Commissioner Teddona. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As part of my report, is it okay if I slide these down to everybody? So, I too uh was able to attend a few of the DPZ meetings. Um some of the ideas sound really good. Um

I like the ideas of uh incorporating some strong town um ideas. Um, I did remind them that, you know, in my opinion, a lot of the damage is already done to Claremont. So, I'm not too sure where we could take advantage of those opportunities, but if there are opportunities to take advantage of, it would be great. in the handouts that I gave you. I guess I kind of got bored the other day and I took a Google Maps, Google Earth map of Lake County, uh from 2005 and from 2020. Um, I don't have an exact day, month, but you could obviously see uh that there is some serious what we would call deforestation that's taking place in Lake County because we don't put trees back or we replace trees with shrubs and all kinds of other stuff. In your notes, there are several uh peer-reviewed scholarly articles about the impact of climate change. So, if you don't mind me saying, um the average mature tree typically absorbs about 48 pounds of carbon dioxide a year and the actual a average vehicle puts out about 10,000 pounds of carbon dioxide a year. According to the Florida Highway Safety Motor Vehicles website, as of July 2018, there were 415,000 vehicles registered in Lake County. In 2026, that number rose to 433,645. So, we average approximately 2,455 vehicles, new vehicles registered in Lake County. That's not including snowbirds or any kind of tourism

traffic. So, in a week, 24,455 times the mileage, times the poundage, uh we put out another half a million pounds of carbon into the air. Uh and we're not taking out anywhere near uh that kind of carbon while we're taking down trees. So, I guess my only uh thing that I would want to say in closing is, you know, if you are in favor of climate change and you're worried about global warming, um you're actually living it here in the uh in Lake County due to rampant overdevelopment. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Uh Commissioner May, do you have a report? Um, I just wanted to say that I also attended all the meetings at the the Sheretses. Um, great information. I think we're going into a positive uh positive, you know, we're putting ourselves in a positive position with the city and I look forward to the council to push the um all the policies, new policies and the four-based code forward uh for the betterment of our city. But I appreciate everyone and and I want to thank the staff again, the IT staff for putting me online with you guys. Thank you very much.

All right. Thank you. Um I just have three quick things to report on. One, I I did go to those um those meetings with TPZ um that that I could attend and I think it is a great look for the city that we're moving together in a very positive way. So, um really um kudos to the city for for doing that. Um the item that uh Commissioner Neim brought up, it was uh brought to my attention by um Commissioner or former Commissioner um Bane, now Councilman Bane, um when he was the chair of this committee, he put together a memo. I understand that this this memo is helpful to the city council because um the city council would like to see something before we get minutes approved. Um so um the a lot of the information in here is largely he gave me a sample. A lot of it is information that will go into the minutes but um but but really trying to define what it is and get it to them in short order. So I have talked to uh to to city staff and and see how we can we can put something together um that reflects what happens here. Have a quick summary. Of course, you know, there there's video and different different things that they they could go watch, but I I think the the intent of of the the report is it it um tells what the vote is on every item and gives a small synopsis. So, um, so I will be working, um, with city staff this week to see if we can put something together in in short order and and provide what it is that the that the council's looking for so they can get, um, a flavor from this commission, what our opinion was before the the um, that the city council um, acts on that. So, I I understand that that to be the the the spirit of what we're trying to do here. Anything anybody wants to add to that? Am I understanding this correctly? If you think you need help with putting that together, please let me know.

Okay.

All right. I I I appreciate it. And um I do have the I I knew it was being done before, but I hadn't actually seen what the the the finished product that was being given to the the city council if anybody wants to see that. I I have that here. Um and the um so thank you and and I'll be in touch this week. So, thank you for for volunteering and and and we'll um see what we can do to communicate that in short order. Um the the third thing is uh Commissioner Bane was also good enough to uh to give me the template that he had done. I believe he had consulted with wi with with city staff and just going over certain disclosures and whatnot for the um for this meeting. So I'm using that as my my my template. It is my uh my my first time using it. So uh you may need to to bear with me, but I I will we'll follow this because um there is some some information about about disclosures and how we we go about our business. So um that is it for my report. Um so um before we get into unfinished and new business um commissioners will report any disclosures they have regarding items on tonight's agenda. Please report which agenda items and the subject matters and specifics and identify persons or groups or entities who you have communicated with. If individuals um have communicated with more than one person, please indicate that. As a reminder to commissioners and to be transparent with the public disclosures of any exparte communication, written or verbal and commissioner investigations, site visits, expert opinions received and communications being read tonight will be in the record. They must be disclosed at this meeting tonight. um by making disclosure such activities, actions, communications shall not be presumed prejuditial and allows persons who have opinions to the contrary and a reasonable opportunity to refute or respond. So um with that I that is the

information uh that that had been prepared. So I I wanted to uh to to present that because I know we we try to keep all of that in mind. Um so um from here um having addressed the disclosures um we'll now move into the unfinished and and new business um before we have the the city staff uh applicant presentations of the agenda items. Um they will be followed by public comment and then actions by by the commissioners and uh any questions will be addressed. We'll now proceed to handle each agenda item individually. Um unless it's announced beforehand. Um so we will start with item agenda number one which is uh on our agenda as resolution 2026-5R Salt on the lake. City staff. Good evening planning and uh zoning commissioners and guests. Nick and Zalos development services. This is agenda item number one, salt shack on the lake cup. Uh before I begin with staff staff's report, it came to our attention that language was carried over from a previous resolution that should have been revised. A copy of the revised resolution uh was given to you before this meeting and shows an updated land use in section two. Uh just wanted to show this real quick. This is the updated resolution. Could you zoom out just a little bit? And section two, land use, uh, now reads, uh, permitted usage shall include a restaurant over 3,000 square ft at 846 West Ociola Street, as well as permitted as well as uses permitted within the CBD. Outdoor dining may occur east of the restaurant along with the deck expansion north of the building between the building and Lake Minnola as shown in exhibit A. And then there was a

strike through of all the uh language that was from an an older resolution and that was uh the permitted uses here, additional permitted uses uh as well as uh number two, number three and number four. So the new resolution will just have two, three, and four. And now we'll continue with the presentation. The applicant, Jimmy Crawford, is requesting a conditional use permit amendment to revise the site plan in resolution 2023-01 01R to include the expansion of the restaurant deck and an additional outdoor seating area on the north side of Salt Shack on the Lake restaurant located in the CBD district. The property is located at 846 West Ocola Street, formerly known as Lily's on the Lake. Here's just an exhibit of the location. Here's Oyola Street. Outlined in yellow is the restaurant. And then outlined in black here. You can see this is where the expanded deck will be. The proposed amendment includes an enlarged deck footprint and the addition of new outdoor seating to accommodate increas increased dining capacity. With the addition of seating, staff has included an updated condition in the revised resolution requiring that any additional parking demand generated by the expanded seating area be satisfied through payment in the city's parking fund as allowed under section 115-14 of the land development code. This payment must be made prior to the approval of site review application. The current cost per space is in the parking fund is $3,000 as approved by the city council. If this is increased prior to

the time of site plan approval, then the applicant will be be responsible for paying the new fee. Based upon the anticipated additional seating of 104 seats, the parking requirements would be one space for every seats, eight seats. This would equate to 13 spaces and a payment of $39,000 into the parking fund at the current rate. Here is the restaurant with its existing outdoor ding area and on this image is the proposed deck area decking area that's north of the restaurant. The project does not require approval from the city regarding lakefront impacts. The applicant has already secured permit approval from the proposed improvements from the St. John's River Water Management District. The CUP amendment does not alter the approved uses, but modifies the configuration of the outdoor dining area to improve functionality and enhance customer service. All other conditions of resolution 2023-01R remain in effect. The proposed increase in seating does not appear to be detrimental to the health, safety, and welfare of the surrounding community. The city did receive a noise complaint in May of 2024. An investigation was conducted and was found that the sound was a result of the mechanical equipment at the site. Sound compression blankets were installed on the exhaust van and HVAC equipment in July of 2024. This reduced the sound decibb well below the city's sound decibel limits and no further complaints have been received. When evaluating a request for a conditional use permit, the land development code section 101-212 requires specific development standards that are required to be met. Staff has reviewed the application as submitted in accordance with the development standards criteria and finds a proposed use can meet the general criteria for granting a conditional use permit. The

proposed use will not be detrimental to health, safety, and welfare of the surrounding community, and staff recommends approval of conditional use permit with the conditions contained in resolution number 2026-005R. That concludes SAS presentation. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, staff. Um, now I'd like to ask the applicant to come up and speak. Uh thank you very much uh PNZ commissioners, chairman and guests. Uh Jimmy Crawford, 702 West Montro Street, Claremont, Florida with Crawford Monik and Holt and I do represent Salt Shack in this application um to expand our deck seating. Um we have been working with staff months and months and that's mainly because St. John's took us more than a year to get through for a permit for St. John's. And that's correct. It's an outstanding Florida water. They made us revise our storm water and our drainage and prevent mooring to the deck. We've agreed to all those conditions. Um, we agree with the staff report and the conditions that are in there. Um, we I do have Katherine Hero and Jeremy Darden who are the general managers of the the restaurant here to answer any technical business questions that I can't answer and uh we would like to hear from the public questions from you and have a chance to respond. So,

okay. Thank you very much. All right. At this time, um, so if you could stand by to possibly answer questions, Mr. Crawford. Um, at this time I'd like to open it up to the to the public um to see if anybody would like to come up and and um make comment or ask questions on item number one. Please state your name and address for the record. Charlene Harrison, Fort Dotto Street, Claremont. And when I say this, it's a little bit of levity with Jimmy sitting back here. I've fought him for many years and he's probably going to hope one day he wakes up and my name's in the obituary because I'm not going away. Okay. So, I turned 70 and Jimmy, maybe I'm going to live to be 80 or 85. So, you got a long way to go.

105 is my guess.

Okay. There you go. I don't think Well, yeah, they've lived to 90 and 100 in my family, but I don't want to live that long. But all kidding aside, I'm down here because of all of our neighbors and stuff. They don't like coming to the PNZ because it's just been I I started this I was telling them earlier today when I was 37 years old and on the Save Our Lakes and I'm now just turned 70 back in July. It's been a long hall people and I've had to fight Jimmy tooth and nail sometimes including Cecilia Bonaf tough attorneys and they don't hire him for a reason because there's some red flags here. And I met them out in the hallway. I want to say this first. And Jimmy knows this. And these are the general managers, not the owners of this business. So, I'm surprised the owners are not here. And I caught them out there after they got approved for the salt shack. After we all know, some of you that's been here, the liies on the lake. We had the stripper Chip Andales down there. We had the wrestling. I mean, just it it went on and on. And when I met him in the hallway, I said, 'I bet y'all are going for this and you're going to try to put a boat dock down there or something like a marina. Well, we just want to be good neighbors and stuff. Well, guess what? They did apply for St. John's River Water Management. They got turned down and denied, which yay. But now the flip side to that is we've got everybody, including Dannis, and this is not about Republicans up there in Tallahassee, and St. John's River Water Management is not there to protect any of our lakes or any of this. They are politically bought and paid for by the developers. Now, this is not people that used to sit there. And I'm sorry to say that because I'm a fourth generation native Flidian. Now, what I've seen downtown, I don't care about what the noise complaints. We're so tired of it. We have been taking complaints and complaints, but my fear is going to be is that when they do this, it's going to be just like the other restaurants and just like they told me in the hall. And

yet, then they went for it. they didn't wait long to try to go for that boat docking stuff is that they're going to have events there. There's going to be weddings that are going to say I'm going to the restaurant, but there's probably going to be DJ stuff there. Now, we already are hearing the sound. And I was down there and I've got to say this because I want to make sure I'm on the record. What is the last name of Nathan, the guy we just hired? Norris. Is what? Norris.

Okay. I want to have it on the record. Nathan Norris. He spent two and a half hours with me a couple weeks ago downtown and said, "Charlene, I know you've seen everything. They've hired me here." We were walking back at the pier. I want y'all to hear this where we've got the veterans place going that you think hopefully they're going to be down there decompressing. And please give me a minute because I'm hearing you didn't have to have 20 from the neighborhood. Okay. And when I was walking back with Nathan, they were blasting music out there in the sand where their umbrellas and their seating is. And Nathan said, and I quote, "Well, this isn't good. Does this go on all the time?" I says to every one of them, and they're not the only one. We've got the Suds, we've got the Mullets, we've got uh CBC, we've got some others now. They've actually put speakers on the building. We've never had amplified whatever. And it's not going to stop. That's our fear. And they already got it as a restaurant. They said that was good enough, but this is what happens. Everybody wants to expand. And then guys try to get to your house down there. Now they got a free parking lot. And you can't blame them, but they knew probably it was going in. Jimmy's smart. He knew. So the whole parking lot down there by the historic is the salt shack. I'm sure they laugh all the way to the bank. They take up everything when they're open. All of it. all of it. So enough is enough. You can buy into this. I don't care if they gave us a h 100red,000. It'll take 50 years to take enough of that money for all of those parking things to ever have it. And when we build a three-story, if we ever did that, they're going to go, "It's filled up. Wow, wow, wow. Where am I going to park?" So, I want y'all to know that we've already got the guy we hired here who heard this. And it's just going to be more and more and more. And then it goes across the lake. And we'll hear from those people later when it's going to really hit in two weeks because it

bounces across that lake. But you know guys, the in is full downtown. There is nowhere for any more cars and any more people. We got to get a handle on this and look to the future, guys. I mean, we're looking to y'all. That's why this I I know when this was incepted and asked us to have a planning and zoning board because they wanted part of the public and Eban, I know you were up there on that council. You've seen this, but my goodness, they've got a restaurant. Run the restaurant and do the best one that you can, but they were over there from Tampa. We are not the ocean and we're not the inter coastal. This is a protected lake out there. And my god, people, people want to go down there and sit on those benches and they're just going to even if they didn't have music, they're going to be just shouting and screaming because that's what people do when a bunch get together. So, thank you for letting me take that time.

But it's been a long haul and this is what we see and it's not going to stop. Okay. Before you step away from the mic question before I go. Yeah. Um, Mr. Neck has a has a question before you sit down. Okay. Go ahead. Uh, Miss Charlene Forth, uh, may I ask you uh your opinion? Mhm. On what percentage of that new parking lot we built that this Say that again. I'm sorry. The percentage of the parking lot that we just that we built, the city built. Yeah. How much of a percentage? 5% 10% 60% in your opinion when it's the weekend your You mean that that the people that park and walk over to the salt shack?

Yeah. Why don't you give me a a Monday through Thursday opinion and then a Friday, Saturday and Sunday opinion. Yeah. of how much it comes and goes during the week and they know but then the weekend starting Friday, Saturday and Sunday and including even the market

and they're coming at my house offered 20 bucks to park in our parking lot in our my driveway. That's how bad it is. If you could just it's probably well past 75 or 80% they're all walking over to the salt shack. You can just stand there and watch it. I can go get a video and take it. I mean there's no reason to do it. We all see it. And then the cars line up down Oyola because then they can't get to the salt shack. It's filled. The new lot is filled and then they just do a circle and that's when they come around all our neighbors asking for parking. Okay. Thank you, M. I'm sorry to delay you at the microphone. Thank you very much. Okay. Um, still open for public comment. Go ahead, sir.

All right. Uh, Evan Faso, 1844 12 Street. Um, I'll try to keep this short for you guys. Um, I'm going to touch on the South Florida Water Management District first. Um, as she mentioned, um, South Florida is pretty much bought and paid for. Um, or I'm sorry, not South Florida, uh, St. John's Water Management District. Um, if you look at Mighty River Recovery, um, this St. John spends millions of dollars with aquat applied aquatics. Um, putting pesticides in our waterway to control invasive species or invasive plants. This also kills all of our native plants as well. So, um, taken into that account, I don't think they take into account any chemical runoff that's going to come off of that deck area for, uh, cleaning. And then, uh, on the parking, $40,000, that's a drop in the bucket. That doesn't even cover, you know, the the cost to replace lights and maintain that parking lot that they got for free for uh, a couple years. So, and then when looking at that site plan, it looks like they're missing a four top in the corner, which I'm sure you'll see will come up later once you're there eating. if you guys do approve this. So, that's all I have on that matter. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Anyone else for public comment? Final call for public comment. All right. I will bring it um to the commission. Okay. May I respond briefly, Mr. Chairman? Go ahead. You may. You You may and then we'll you'll probably have more questions.

Stand here for questions. Go ahead. Of course. Go ahead. Um well I I do have the this is the city code on uh music and outside amplified entertainment. I will say that the cup that's before you is even more restrictive than the code because we're stopping at 10:00 a.m. or 1000 p.m. on uh Sunday. Um, and actually we close at 1000 p.m. So we never have music after 900 p.m. Uh, and it's always been uh one single guitar singer. Um,

that's not true.

Sitting down there. Um, and then there's our parking and uh to the issue of St. John's. They they they were really hard on us. We never applied for a marina or a boat dock at all. uh we applied for just what we wound up getting with some additional environmental uh considerations to like the revamp of the storm water system. We had it Lilies had an old sidewalk running down to the lake and it didn't have any storm water capability. So what little bit of water ran down there just ran straight in the lake. So we fixed that. We now have an under drain system to pro to prevent that. Uh, and they did prohibit boat tying up to the uh, deck and we would have prohibited that anyway. So, we're we're fine with that. Um, that's um, and as far as the inn is full and and no more room on downtown, the business owners downtown don't believe that's true. And if there wasn't demand for doing this, for Salt Shack to be able to uh add some additional seating, it's still a restaurant. It's not a wedding venue. It never will be. Um it it it bodess well for downtown. And once um Lumberyard comes into um full occupancy, it it's going to be more busy down here. And yes, we have to deal with the parking. We've been talking about that for a long time. And I know Mr. Norris and DPZ and the new

comp plan is working on that as one of their primary goals. Uh but the the Yeah, the parking is right there. The So if if we have problems with the parking amount and with St. John's, it's not in it's not for this board. Y'all can't change any of that. we don't have any control over St. John's. They should go to Platka and argue and come to the city council and say that the parking fee is not enough. We're just complying with the code is is what we're trying to do. And we would ask your approval and be happy to put the whole team up to try to answer any questions that you may have.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Crawford. Anyone else for public comment? Seeing nobody else, I close the public comment portion of this meeting and we'll open it up to the commission for consideration. Uh we will start with you, Commissioner May online. Commissioner May. Thank you, sir. Yes. Can you hear me? Thank you, sir. Okay, go ahead.

Questions. What are the setback requirements for the lakefront property? Uh I believe it's 25 ft from the high water mark. So I want to make sure that that deck uh is within that boundary. Um I know there's no encroachments into the 100year flood plane. Uh so I'm not you know I don't have any information on that. Uh I believe there's a minimum of 24 foot buffer is required for all lakes and wetlands. Um, so I want to see if that is being um, uh, looked at. Um, in regards to shore shoreline protection ordinance,

um, I believe there's a the the buffer, I don't know if it's in regards to natural vegetation. Um, but I believe the Lake County Water Authority should have some say uh, due to the uh, water quality. I know that the uh, buffer I think the reason why for the buffer is for that. So, um, so that's the questions on that for on the shoreline. Now, in regards to parking, I understand that there is 104 seats. Does that, and I'm asking the staff, does that include staff parking as well? If that was um, so if it's 104 seats, is that for the seating of the customers as well as staff? because you would have additional staff as well. Um that would require parking for the site and

Okay. And then uh for

sorry and for the attorney um you mentioned that there's no outdoor music shall be allowed past 11 p.m. on Friday or Saturday and that was included but however in our new red line that was excluded. So we would need to have that information back into the resolution. And I understand that all the events uh the uses were excluded um because it falls under the uses under the CBD central business district. But I do want to include any exclusions to um water sports rental areas, ice vending machines, bait sales. I think that, you know, will cause more boats to uh use that shoreline which should be protected as well as um prevent any more boats because I go I go to I I love the soft I go there all the time but I see a lot of boats coming up to the shoreline. So my my concern is really that shoreline protection. So, um, if you can answer everything that I have, uh, talked about, I appreciate it and I will mute myself and thank you for the opportunity.

All right. Thank you.

Uh, certainly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Commissioner May. Um, let me try to go in order. We do meet all applicable setbacks of both the city and St. John's. That was one of the major issues that we went through St. John's with. Um the uh the parking, we do not have any additional parking for employees. The plan is to utilize the existing employees. We're overmp employed a little bit right now and depending on how that works out uh over time. Uh there may be and that'll be an issue through the site plan approval process. um that if staff uh demands additional parking for future potential additional employees, we'll pay into the fund for for those as well, but we don't there is no plan right now to hire any additional employees. Um the sound time uh yes um Mr. Gonzalez just told me that the final version of the ordinance takes out the restriction in the ordinance. Oh, I'm sorry. a resolution for our conditional use permit, but we are still governed by this. This is in the city code. It doesn't So, we wouldn't stop, we wouldn't be required to stop at 10 on Sunday as was in there. It's a um 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. is the quiet time for that. But again, we're not open after 10 p.m. So, if PNZ wanted to put something in for that, we'd be fine with that because we're already bound by the code. Um gosh, there was something else.

Oh yeah. Uh well, I I know a little about that. Uh I I am the Blake County Water Authorities board attorney and they don't have any planning and zoning participation at this moment. It's actually been discussed with the county commission that on water dependent uh water adjacent issues that they get a seat at the table at least at the DRS staff review level. But that doesn't exist right now. So the water authority has no way to weigh in commentwise. Um and they don't have any jurisdiction. They're not a permitting authority at all. It's just uh it's straight St. John's andor D. And in this case, DP has transferred all those permitting authorities to St. John's for this kind of a project.

All right. I I have a question. Um I'm looking at the I'm trying to find definition of place of public entertainment. I'm not trying to split hairs or anything. I just when I looked at it originally and this discussion came up, I kind of thought to myself, I don't consider this a place of public entertainment. Um because it's, you know, it's not a venue. I well it could be a venue for thing but it's it's a restaurant by and large. Yes. And yeah it's not a venue for any kind of those activities. Yeah. But and you're that's a very good point. So maybe we should put it back in just to make sure. I don't know.

We're fine with it or it's not our intent to get around it at all. Good point. All right. Staff have anything to add to that? All right, questions. Uh, Commissioner May, are those all of your questions? Uh, yes, for now. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. And honestly, for that issue, staff, we probably ought to look at defining that or adding uh food and entertainment or something like that in into there. food and I'm sorry I didn't hear that food and entertainment into the noise code that says places of entertainment right now. So your plan to have entertainment

the way you said it right our plan is to continue doing exactly what we are doing and uh that would involve uh weekend afternoon and evening uh entertainment singer songwriter type stuff. They don't even bring their own amplification. They go through the speakers that we have that play not elevator music, but Jimmy Buffett music uh all day long. Plug and play. Okay. I'm going to start at my far left with uh Commissioner Tone and then we'll we'll work our way across. Okay. Thanks.

Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of questions, concerns. Um, you did say that you don't anticipate any watercraft at all approaching and or mooring to this deck. That's correct. It's prohibited. Now, boats can pull up in the water to the shore and nobody has jurisdiction to prevent that. We can't. The city can't. Okay. But they can't attach to any any of our property.

Okay. What is what is the shore? And the reason why I asked that is I went on to John Lakes's uh site. So currently the lake is at 94 ft. Okay. Right. The average height is 102 feet. So I'm not an engineer. I'm certainly not a lawyer. Right. Okay.

What's the shore? The shore is the ordinary high water line. Um, but for for purposes of St. John's permitting and the deck set back and I think it's like 98, don't please hold me to that. I can find out. But, uh, I believe that's what that is for. Right. But there's a difference between bringing my kayak or my Scadoo here and here. Abs. Absolutely. Okay. And again, I just I don't know where I'm going with it. It's just it's a that's part one. Part two is I don't know if that water gets any higher to go underneath the deck.

Yeah. So, we might have to be it's from the ordinary. Well, first of all, it's 20 feet high at the at the end. So, if water did come up, there would not be any uh flooding or erosion problem. But it is measured from the ordinary high water line. The setbacks are. And as you know, you've been here long enough to see hurricanes where it goes way up. Uh we're not within the 100redyear flood plane. And if you probably weren't here in the late 90s when it went down and they found planes in Lake Louisa from World War I because it went so dry. All right. But with all due respect, this is happening.

This these two pictures are within a year of each other. Okay. of how showing the water fluctuation of just how different kinds of gates are opening and how water is I'm getting a whole lesson on how water travels through Florida. Right. Okay. But you're aware that this water level could rise. Yes. Okay. But and regulatory wise for both the city and St. John's, we work off that OWL, that ordinary high water line. Okay. And uh that's what the setbacks are figured from. and then the hundred-year flood where we can't put any actual seating within the 100red-year flood. Okay. So, next question. Do the trees stay?

Yes, trees are not coming out. And if I may, one of the big issues with St. John's was they wanted to prohibit boat moing over on the eastern edge of our property where there is um native vegetation and grasses in there. And we agreed to do that. The 150 feet in the middle is just sand. It's been there probably because boats have been pulling up there for 30 years. But that's the only spot where boat boats are allowed to pull up. We've got signage that we've got to put up that prohibits them from uh pulling up or mooring into the grassy areas.

Okay. So, part of my other concerns come from the State of Florida Erosion and Sediment Control Designer and Reviewer Manual. Um, and in that manual, I I picked out some stuff that just came glaring to me. Um, there is soil classification, texture, and permeability that kind of needs to be done or it's highly suggested that it's done. Was that done? Do we know what kind of soil is under there? because and with all with all due respect, when you when you read this, it doesn't sound like anything's been done.

And that's that that's a huge concern for me. All right. The other thing is, and I and I'm sorry for skipping around. Nope.

You've got 104 tables at four people per table, not including servers, not including the guy with the guitar. That's a 21,000 pound static load on something. When I read here, I don't see a soil classification, texture, permeability study. I'm not too sure what kind of uh posts you're putting into the ground. In the in the in the diagram, they're actually staggered. So, again, I'm not an engineer. Um, there's no talk about erosion control, about putting in plants, rip wrap or geoex textile fabric. Um, is this marine grade high density plastic that's going in the ground and on the deck or are we talking a wooden deck?

Well, it is wood. Um, and again, this was all permitted through St. John's and then through site plan approval with the city. We have to have the engineering reports. Um, I can send you the St. John's permit that will answer many of these questions. The soil tests were done. It's sandy down to a clay layer that's like 25 ft down. Um, and that was all considered by St. John's when they made us revise our storm water plan and put in the underground French drains or whatever you want to call them and that type of stuff. So, it is all analyzed by the city and by St. John's, but not at this stage.

How are you cleaning any garbage underneath the deck? I'll let Catherine because cuz when you look at the drawing, that deck is somewhere in the neighborhood of like 70 feet long and 22 feet into the, you know, towards the water. Towards the water. Yes. So, the one thing nobody ever takes into account, I'm sorry, and I've said this multiple times, is human nature. So, here I come and I got a napkin. I want to put it through a slit. I throw a bottle of, you know, an empty bottle, you know, underneath the deck or whatever it is. How are you policing that deck under the deck to make sure that stuff doesn't get into the lake?

Yeah. Come forward and give a name and address.

Catherine her 161616 Sounding Shores Drive, Odessa, Florida. I'm the chief operating officer for Salt Shack. Um, thank you for the opportunity to um to address the question. Um, the wood slats that are going in on the deck are very tight. I don't know the exact measurements off the top of my head. I apologize, but any type of napkin, utensil, anything like that would not be able to fit through. Um, there will be enough of um a gap so that water could flow through. Um, but if there's any trash that comes through, the deck would be coming maybe off the sides. and we police the property um on checklist with the staff in the morning and at night. Um I hope that you've had the opportunity to be on property, but we take the cleanliness of the community um very seriously. We have been um had the most hospitality we could have asked for coming into the Claremont community. And we want nothing but to make sure that the community is 100% premier. So, if there was an opportunity for trash to come off of the dock, just like the patio that we have now and the rest of the outdoor seating that we have on the park side of the building, um it's monitored throughout the shift before and after. So, you have my commitment and the rest of our staff that if there was a trash problem, we would I mean it wouldn't become an issue.

Okay. So, thank you. During construction, the state of Florida erosion and sediment control designer and reviewer manual uh does suggest some sort of floating turbidity barrier to prevent debris from going into the lake. Sure. And uh they even recommend a bright color to alert boers to it. So this way they don't they don't get tangled up. Uh in that manual on page 72, it actually shows you a picture of a typical uh setup. Mhm.

You're adhering to all of that. We And I do not know what floating barrier requirements that St. John's has. I know we have a silt fence requirement that is up on the sand before we get there. So hopefully everything that comes off the construction which is still 20 ft away from there it gets caught by the silt fence and never gets into the lake. So that's not really a yes that's what we're doing though even though it's the answer. I really don't fine. I'm sorry.

Um all of the we spent almost a year and met onsite with the team from St. John's on property, myself, the owners, our architect, um working to make sure that we could meet all of the expectations of the code for St. John's. And there's multiple things that are in the plan um for safety, making sure we have signs so that voters don't try to tie up to the dock. Um there's a list of things that are part of the architectural plan that we will definitely make sure that we meet all codes. and we have their commitment that they will be on inspecting to make sure that all of those are fulfilled prior to us actually seating the dock. So, um I'm not sure what the reputation is that precedes St. John's, but the interactions that I've had with them, they've been very intense as far as what their expectations are with this deck. So,

okay. I I believe that we have met all of the codes and we'll ensure before we open that part of the property in the event that we get the permission to do so that we'll meet all the codes that are in the contract that we signed with them.

Okay. And again, I'm not trying to overstep my bounds and I I'll I'll close this up as quickly as I can. I guess part of some of the concerns are the pylons and the soil so we're not shifting, right? I realize you're not underwater. Maybe you're not getting hit by a wave, but the you know um between the the rip wrap which is type of concrete or different kind of plants to keep that soil from eroding over time. I mean everything looks wonderful six months from now but God willing planting made commitments with St. John's that if so this way we could keep the soils

Yeah. And if we disturb anything during construction we have already committed to replanting. They'll come in, inspect before, mid construction, and after. And if we have disturbed anything, we've already made the commitment to replant or do whatever we need to do in the midst of any disruption during construction because I'm not really sure exactly how much we have to plant, but I know it's in the um the final permit with them.

Okay. One of the last things I just want to touch upon, item 21 talks about a fish and wildlife survey or a take about a fish and wildlife that are in the area. Is that something that you did? Is there a study that was taken care of? Is it something I'm sorry, 21 in the cup itself? Page 39. Okay. Sorry. Page 39 on exhibit A number 21. This permit does not authorize the permittee to cause any permit. Okay, thank 21 this permit.

Yeah, it does not authorize us to cause any adverse impact or take of any listed species. Yeah, the only one that we would have down there might have been a gopher tortoise and we don't have any down there. Nothing in the water. No, nothing hanging out in the trees. Nothing Spanish moss. Spanish moss. And I did forget to address Commissioner May's comment about selling incidentals like ice and bait. We don't want to do any of that. We do sell ice, but you have to buy it in a glass with some by beverage in it. And the only bait we would sell would be if you want to pay 25 bucks for a coconut shrimp, you can use them however you want after that. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, Commissioner Enso. Thank you, Chair. Oh, Jimmy, I' I've missed your jokes. Very good. Well, I'm glad somebody does because Yeah, I don't get that much. Um, okay. So, I I appreciate you guys coming and and um giving us your presentation. I only have a couple questions. I don't really have anything from a coding perspective, but more so from a structural perspective. Um, just to double check and for for confirmation for us all, this deck is not covered. Correct. It is not. Okay. No.

Now, I guess my second question is for the wood that's being used for the deck ext expansion, is it uniform in comparison to one the one that's currently there? I don't know the answer. Do you mean uniform meaning matching? Yeah, matching. Same thing. That kind of It was actually part of the original plan, but we were not able to get permitting done with St. John's prior to opening um in February of 2024. That makes sense. Okay. Okay. That's uh that's those were the two big things and they're not dings per se, but just things that I would keep in mind. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Commissioner Neck. Well, first of all, Jimmy, I got to say in all the years I've been up here, every time you come up here, something gets changed. And for once, it's not your fault. All right. For once, it's not your fault because Thank you. I just received this with a bunch of changes on it. So, my whole weekend studying this is out the door. Yep. Certainly for section one, which is old Lily's language. We don't want anything to do with I'm good with that. Real quick question. Yes, sir. All right. You know, we got DPZ. You know, we got meet me in the middle. Yes.

Actually, it's for the managers. Did you guys consult with them of what they might want what direction Claremont downtown is going with? I'm sorry. I don't know if I understand the question. Okay. I'm sorry. Let me try to put it more in the layman terminology. We spent a lot of money for DPZ. There are the planners that are revising. Oh, I'm sorry. They didn't know what that was. Okay, I got you now. I'm sorry cuz I didn't know what that was in the beginning either. So, we're on the same page. No, I my apologies.

No, don't apologize. I'm same way. Uh, so we spent a lot of money and was still spend the money on their insight what direction Claremont should take. Okay. And then we have meet me in the middle which we're going back and forth every single council person. Okay. Did you consult with them on this or you guys just ran with it yourself? I did not consult with the planning and zoning committee prior to the plans that we are that we have in front of you. No.

Okay. Maybe you got me. Jimmy, you want to explain to a you work through staff only to do that? Right. So you didn't and I'm certain that this has been a conversation among the the planning folks. Maybe staff could uh discuss that. But we haven't been involved in any of that with DPC.

Okay. May we just came up here with full disclosure that my chairperson says. I should have said it when I introduced myself. I did speak with some of the neighbors surrounding Lilies on the Lake. I spoke with one of them, Miss Charlene forth about this project. I spoke with other neighbors that I can't identify right now because I didn't write their names down. And uh they're very concerned about the safety and the parking situation. So that's my disclosure. Uh I would like also the planning and zoning department to give me any disclosure if you discuss this with meet me in the middle or the DPZ. So you want this man to answer it or should we get it from the director?

No worries. Kurt Henchel, the plan development services director. We clearly pointed out this location, what it was, how they were operating, how they incorporated into their plans. It doesn't affect Meet Me in the Middle. That's a separate piece of property. Not sure if that's what you're looking for or not, but they're aware. Well, I'm not looking for it. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Meet me in the Middle is right. They're concerned about the deck and that deck that dock deck is No, it does not interfere with the existing the dilapidated one or if we put a new one in. This is a completely different project, different location. It will not interfere. Did you communicate with DPZ about this or you didn't have the time to?

We told them that they were this is where they were operating. Do they know about this extension of the deck? That's that's what I meant to say. Okay, I got you. That's what I meant to say. I'm not aware specifically about the deck. That's all. Okay. You answered it fairly. Thank you, Kirk. All right. Uh Kirk, can I ask you another question? I'm sorry. I don't mean uh I looked at my packet. In my packet, I found three things that were different. Number one, when I go online to look at the packet, there's a lot more information about the deck itself that's not in the physical packet, like the pillars that are going into the ground and all that. Why is that? Let me look at

to save paper. I'm not sure right now. I don't have it in front of me. So, I'll get back. Did you know that answer? Well, here we got our plans in there that this was in my packet, but I don't know. Well, I can tell you that we don't always put all the engineering plans in because they still have it was in the packet online. That's what I'm saying because I'm going back. See, here's the problem. Sometimes I get it online first and I read it and then when I get my packet, I'm pulling my hair out like, I just saw this page. Where is it? Okay, that's why I'm questioning that. That's number one. Okay.

Number two is your diagrams. And I said it time and time when I sit on this commission. Your diagram on page Here we go. Page 17. Okay. I is there. All right. I'm from New York City. I'm sorry. All right. Is there a high tide or low tide on this lake? Okay. Cuz the lake that's up and down. Okay. I don't want Well, there was like the chicken and the egg that I asked two years ago. St. John's whether or not they want to open up. That's where I was going at staff.

Okay. I'm I'm should not be listening to them right now because I'm not addressing them. I'm sorry. Uh according to this picture, their property line is right on the shoreline. According to the interactive map with Lake County, their property line is approximately 15 to 20 feet in the lake. Which one's right? The yellow line is a a general just a general location. Yes. Okay. So, I guess interactive Lake County map would be more accurate because I'm just trying to give you a location of general.

Okay. Because that that right right off the bat looks deceiving to me. Yeah. Especially when I get these plans that do not show the size of the deck itself in feet. Okay? And that's not your fault. You didn't design these plans. I'm just saying. See, these are questions I had when I'm sitting at home over my weekend looking say, "But where?" And I even looked online. Where is the dimension? How far does this go back from the restaurant? So, I could go on the interactive Lake County map to see how deep it's going into the lake. All right. I'm sorry. I'm I don't I'm I'm trying to save my integrity up here without

being nasty like I was accused. Yeah. But this is how I am and this is how I talk. So, I'm Italian also. All right. So, I'm not yelling. I'm talking. I understand. And I'm not disrespecting. We know each other for a very long time. Absolutely. I talk plainly and I'll answer as plain. You would be more insulted if I just voted A&A without asking questions. I Yeah, I I would be disappointed

and I'm not trying to steal the show from any one of my commissioners, but I'm just being honest. Uh may I ask uh continue my questions unless you have a comment to come back, but All right. Because I'm not putting you on the spot, Mr. Henchel. I'm just I'm I it sounds like I am, but I'm just confused with your picture, which is an estimation and an actual picture from the interactive map because if I had the the the specs of this deck, I could actually go from the roof line and see how far into the lake they're going. Right now, I got to use my imagination and I honestly I I I got to base a decision tonight on advising the council what to do. All right. Uh to the staff, how many tables are inside, Jimmy?

Um or one of the managers. How many tables do you all have now? 32. You have 32 tables inside. How many is on the outside deck right now? That's covered. How many tables? 15. 15. And you want to add another 104? Yeah. Seats. Seats. Not tables. Not 26. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. So that's why I meant to ask you. Thank you for correcting me because I was wrong. How many seats do you have inside? Total seats? Yes, total seats. Just tops. Yes. So, there'll be 120. Oh, wow. And then some on the deck that exists now. And how many That's what bar Oh, Jimmy, thank you for reading my mind.

How many I didn't catch that. I was too busy talking to you. How many are How many chairs are on the inside deck? Outside. Outside the covered deck. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm getting confused. I need coffee. And does that include the ones on the east in the sand? No, there's 60 so seats. There's 60 seats on the like the covered patio that goes around and then there's 15 picnic tables that are out that you see like on the park side area that technically seat four, but you could squeeze five on there. But so we're looking at what 60 more on the sand. I would say on average 60 seats.

Okay. So we got 12. That's 120. That's 240. And now you want to add additional 104 seats. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. No. Good. Thank you. All right. Uh, so out of 240 seats, how many staff members do you have? Waiters, dishwashers, total oral kind of Total. You don't have to break it down for me. Come up and speak here. Yeah. I'm sorry. They can't hear you on TV.

Lance. Yeah. I'm going to give you an average because I don't have the exact numbers, but I think we have roughly 55 servers and then we have 10 bartenders, so that's 60. And then we have 15 people that work in the kitchen, different positions. So 65 to 75 would be my average of like hourly employees. And then we have five members of the management staff. 50 to 75 on a daily basis working. Oh no, sir. like totally employed. Totally employed. Okay. Okay. I got that. So, let me ask you a question. How many working in one day?

It all depends on how much dinners, you know, whether it's a weekday, weekend, but I would say on average probably 30 employees all day. 30. So, we got 240 plus 104 more seats plus another 30 for staff members. So, if my quick calculation goes right, that's 3007 close to 375 more additional total parking spots. All right. No, not the additional, but it's it's we're looking at that, right?

Okay. So, I'm sorry you could cut me off again, but I'm just going to keep going on and on. All right. Because Miss Miss Commissioner May did the setback, so we'll save some time on that one. So, where I'm going is the parking. All right, for the people out there listening now, you want to know why Claremont is broke. Because there are rules. Think about it. Okay? And I can't deny you for this because it's a rule that the city developed, the council developed. Sorry, I'm not picking on my staff. You're talking about eight people and you only have to pay for one parking spot and the parking spot is $3,000. Now, here's the best part. I know cuz I sat in those seats many times where we beg and lease parking. We paying a lot more. You're paying $3,000 $39,000, let's say. And I'm not picking on you, please. I'm just very bitter with this formula. $39,000, a one-time deal for life. Okay? For life. So now you could understand why when I talk to these residents on the surrounding, and I'm not just doing it for you. You could ask anybody here. I go around and do my homework. I find out what the public wants and they're very upset about that. Especially when the city council keeps kicking the can down the road for a parking garage. I would really want to have a problem with this parking if we had a parking garage right here in the backyard, but they kicking a can. So, right now we have a problem. That's why I asked the earlier question. Did you actually get a chance to talk to the DPC department or meet me in the middle for their ideas for parking? Because that's that's what I'm try look I'm trying to come to a compromise with you. Okay? And

that's what I'm trying to do. All right? Your staff answered. Okay? Now, here's a big thing. This is this is in what's in my realm. Entertainment. I just had a citizen come up there and said she was walking with Mr. Morris and he heard loud music a block away. Is that the same PA system you plan to use for this guitarist?

So the music that we have currently isn't going to change with the deck. So currently we have a speaker system where we have speakers that play music um that you can hear on the patio. you can hear in the parkside picnic tables and inside. So, we have like um it's called Rockbot. This is probably way too much information, but we basically choose a genre of music like Jimmy Buffett essentials plays over the speakers.

So, on Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday, we have live music that comes in, which is generally like one band member that has an acoustic guitar. He plugs into those same speakers. The volume is set by the management team. It doesn't change whether it's Jimmy the guitar player or it's the Jimmy Buffett essentials. It all plays on the same music system. So, it's not going to change. And we're not going to add additional music for the deck. It's going to be the same music system that we put in with the original and it has to be at a volume where the other side of the property, most of the property doesn't even know there's live music because it's so low. You're trying to enjoy your meal. You're on the other side of the property. It doesn't get loud. They don't do happy birthdays. So, they don't even know. There's no breaks

and it's really just meant to be background music. That's all it is. Oklahoma Breeze. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I understand that. Trust me. I'm sorry. Jeremy, name and address for the I'm sorry. Jeremy Darden, uh 1076 Golden Dawn Loop, Miniola, Florida. Miniola, right on neighbor. Good. Cool. All right. So, really, I get it. I go into restaurants, violinist playing, you know, this and that. That's for the restaurant thing. But the music that citizen came up or the resident came up and said they heard music a block away. house on your beach. You're saying the beach, the picnic from a boat or something. Okay. Cuz this is my realm because I used to do have a business like that.

When musicians play, they usually have a monitor. So, you're going to have something in writing. You're telling me that they not going to have a monitor where they could hear themselves or amplify their voice. No additional PA system, but the one you're using, they have their monitor only and it faces them. That's all they use. And there will be an additional musician with the additional That's just on the deck. I'm more worried about we're not going to put an extra person out on this new deck. I mean, I can't say anything, but I'm just, you know, right now I'm focusing on the deck, so I'll leave that alone. There'll be no additional entertainment for the deck. And commissioner, let me let me jump in there for a second because that's already allowed in our condition. I know that's why I didn't go to it, Jimmy.

And there's a code that governs it and there's our cup that governs it. That's we're we're not asking for anything additional for that. Jimmy, you know as well as I do, I could walk down Main Street a certain amount of time. Sure. And you know that everybody goes sometimes they push the rules to the limit. And I'm being honest. I come out here sometimes at at the city center and I hear the band a block away. This was loud. This was not ma'am. Ma'am, please. You had your turn. You can walk past Carllis and hear their out. Correct. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not here to argue with this. I'm just telling you. I mean, when you tell me there's rule, settlements in writing. Come on, Jimmy.

Well, that that is that's all we can go by are those rules. Yeah. Well, I agree. I I definitely concur you on that one. I'm almost done. Okay. Private parties. You're telling me there's huge deck you're going to have. You're not going to have one private party at all. No. Not a Christmas party. Not a New Year's Eve party. No. I'm not in the business of doing large parties. We don't we have never done a large event in the other property that we have in Tampa, which is a 3acre property on the ocean. We've never done a wedding. We've never done a private party. It's just we don't even have a menu out. I'm sorry, ma'am. Yes. I'm sorry. I I apologize. I should have let you finish. I apologize.

What about in the future? You're here telling me this now. What happened? All right. Bye. I'm working for the competition. I got a new manager come here. Events aren't allowed. They're not allowed under this. So wasn't stripping, but Lily's on the lake hat. Yeah, but that we're not So wasn't tossing, but they didn't. They had it.

We're here now over two years, and we would stand on our reputation in the community and and at large. Part of this is about supporting businesses that are already here and allowing them to do what they need to expand within reason and to thrive. Jimmy, can you explain to me because you know downtown just as good much better than I do where there is some place another restaurant in the CBD C. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah. CRA C. No. Well, central business district. Yes. CBD. CBD. Yes.

Where there is approximately 375 seating. I would think if you take uh the Sun Creek combined with with in the same building with Pepes I think there's at least that are more and they have loud music and amplified loud music.

That's one of the problems we have but you know I'm not in a code enforcement. All right, you answered that question. That's a positive. All right, I'll give you that. Uh Miss Jenny May was perfect on the setback. Uh, can somebody answer my question that it's not on this conceptional plan and I know that's not mandatory, but what is the length of this deck for my own curiosity? And there's a dimensional plan that is mad at me. You don't have to rip it out of your book. Yeah. Well, I'm going to have to hand it to you because I Yeah. Thank you. So now it's not me. I can't read it either. If you handed it to me, it's approximately. Does the management know how the the

I mean, I don't know off the top of my head. I know I have a plan on my laptop. I just don't have it with me, but the dimensions are it's really hard to read in this packet, which don't hold it against me. I, you know, create this packet, but I can pull up the dimensions on my lap. Oh, staff has it. 111. If staff has it, why wasn't in my packet? It's in the packet, but I can magnify. It's hard to read in that. length is 47 + 29 47 ft 29 towards the water. Yeah. Right. No, it's it Well, you gave me the square footage. I want the length. Left to right. I basically want from south to north. I want to know exactly how how much is going to my south to north.

I'm sorry, Jimmy. No, it's okay. I'm just You see where I'm going at? 32 and 78. It looks like 30.

All right, let's say 32 and I'll give you the extra 78. All right, I don't have time to go and look on my computer because I'm not allowed to have my computer with me. I have to use what's in front of me as quote. All right. And the last thing I have, somebody justify this for me, please. Uh, I'm looking at this St. John's water management letter. It's dated June 27th, 2025. Today is 2026. So, you're telling me you proposed this plan I'm holding in my hand to St. John's Waters or were you proposing the picnic tables and the covered? No, it's the it's the plan for the deck.

So, you had this planned all along buying salt shack? Yes. Yes. And as they said plan that we Yeah. We tried to do it with the original CUP revision, but our St. John's was a year and a half still out. So, um, we just got the same. I'm trying. This is great. This Okay. I'm sorry. Let me just shut up. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh, the DBZIS, the valet Oh, are you going to be having valet service for parking? No, we don't have any plans to do valet right now. right now in the future some reason why it would be better for the customers and the community we would do better but we've never done it before.

See the question the reason why I'm asking these questions about the future Mr. Herel could tell you I sit here I state my cases and because it's not in writing they could get away with it because it wasn't in writing. So by telling me this don't mean nothing. It's not even a handshake. All right. I want to see it in black and white. As for the valet, is that a positive or a negative? I don't That's a major negative because now now you have now now you're hiring a second source to park the car wherever he wants. This is my I I know about valet parking. Mhm.

I know very good about valet parking. All right. And I'm telling you right now, valet that's that's a negative to me. Jimmy, where they going to park? Do it in our past in our No, I I understand that, ma'am, and I agree with you. I looked at your Tampa Bay area. This is not Tampa. This is Claymont and this is a protected lake. Okay? And I'm not trying to score brownie points. I am not. I sit in that council for many, many years and I hear the residents come up like that gentleman over there and saying his concerns. Jimmy, you know exactly what I'm talking about because you were on the other side of this podium about the lake. Absolutely. I completely understand. I'm sorry to hold you up, Commissioner Kramer, but these are the things I just want to get off. And thank you, chairperson, for letting me have more time.

I'm sorry, Commissioner. May I ask a quick question? I know it's a little weird. Sure. Go ahead. What neighbors I' I'd like to know what neighbors you talk to and where they live because there are no close neighbors to this. There's one rental house about 200 yards away and the next person is a quarter mile. I didn't say house, Jimmy. You said I said residents neighbor neighbor neighbor. Okay, I'm sorry. You're right. I I stand corrected. I meant ne residents in Claremont walk people that walk by. Yes. Okay. Okay.

Because when I when I received this packet, I received the old resolution. So when I saw this the word weddings, it was a definite no. I completely get it. Yeah. So actually wasted my time but when I asked all those questions to those people first question and where are they going to park and that's why I asked the questions and I want to thank both of you for being as honest as possible are you I don't I don't find that in certain individuals lately. Okay I'm going to refrain if I have any questions. Thank you for being very patient with me Mr. Chair. I'm working on my patience. I'm working I know. I know. So is Ebo Commissioner Kramer.

Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate the applicant's investment in our downtown waterfront and the continued vitality of the CBD. This amendment does not expand the use of that category, expand seating, and that's important. I was there on opening day and I believe we had a rather long discussion. I was I I lived close. I walked down to be there. In fact, I was there for the opening ceremony and then came back and ate later in the day. Yeah.

Where and I'm pretty sure it was you that explained to me um how soon we're going to have a deck coming and kind of walked me through the that whole plan. So, I know that from from my own personal experience that from opening day that that's always been in your intent and you said that you were struggling with St. John's water management. Um I'm actually working right now myself and I understand that frustration of working with multiple permitting and In fact, I was here at city hall the other night uh doing just that to do some permitting. Um and I know how difficult that can be. So, I have a few questions and and truly mine I hope you take it in this I'm saying I'm asking questions for the record. So, um I was looking at the at your your your maps and it the plan appears to show approximately 92 seats. Um, but the staff report references 104 seats for the parking calculation. So, can can staff clarify how the number was derived and whether the 104 represents the maximum potential seating capacity rather than the furniture layout that I saw in the plans

that that was the number of 104 came from our application. Okay. Uh but that also will be figured out in uh the site plan approval process of what the final seating count would be uh which will then be calculated to know what that parking fund contribution would be. Thank you.

The report referenced a prior noise complaint resolved with man mechanical sound blankets. Has the staff received any complaints related to live music? We checked with uh the police department and in the last 12 months they have received zero complaints. So you've had zero complaints about live music, but we're concerned about the noise. People need to complain if there's really a problem more than just Charlene coming in here and representing the area. And I appre I appreciate it. I I the utmost

utmost respect. Then Charlene, I'm going to or to the audience, I'm going to suggest making complaints so that that they're on file when these things happen rather than putting one citizen out here. They don't have a meter. So there was no reason to call them anymore. Okay. They don't have the meter.

Keep calling because I'll keep asking for a meter. No, that's interesting because when I read the noise ordinance, um I don't I don't know why like section 18-23, I don't know if anyone can hear me on this thing. Um 18-23 subsection A says it shall be unlawful for any person to produce, cause to be produced, etc., etc. any sound. I'm sorry, actually go subsection B because that's where it talks about um uh the following specific uses, activities, and circumstances are declared to be in violation of this article. And then it talks subsection one talks about exterior loudspeakers, musical instruments, stuff like that. And what it actually prohibits is noise beyond a property line. It doesn't say anything about time. It doesn't say anything about decibb. It says that it's illegal for the noise to go beyond the property line. So, if that's if that's what someone's interpretation is, it's not correct. You don't need them either. So, we'll have to talk about that and figure it out if that's what they told you.

Yeah. And what I would say to uh attorney Wah who's very good at what he does and I don't like to argue municipal law with him because I usually lose is that the specific would control over the general and 11 that specifically says in public in places of public entertainment those are the restrictions. So it's not a model of clarity and we'll cooperate with cleaning it up any way that we can. I would say anybody in downtown that is trying to listen to our music, um the the brewery's music is going to totally drown us out before we get to Minnola Street.

Thank you. And and and we've got bigger problems coming when we talk about sound. When the lumber yard comes in, that's that's going to dynamically change things, but that's that's a different issue. True. So this is for staff. Can staff confirm that the amendment does not expand the allowable use category only the seating area

after the correction that was made to the resolution? Correct. Yeah, it's just only the seating area. So I want to just make sure any any future seating increase would require additional cup amendment. Correct. From what is uh approved? Yes.

Correct. Okay. seems like a pretty straightforward conditional use permit amendment and it modifies the seating capacity but it doesn't alter the underlying land use. So I I I want to support this and I just want to go on the record saying that as long as everything that that's been represented to me has been true so far, I think I could support this. I'm concerned. I'm concerned about the noise. Councelor brings up a very good point and that gives us an opportunity to look at things from a different perspective. But um I think that the original intent when you guys went in here originally um was to have that deck there and we're just finally closing that door. And if you had had that permitting several years ago, we this would already be done. So, um, that's all questions I have, Chairman.

All right. Thank you, Commissioner Kramer. Uh, I just have one additional, um, question at this point. I think I know the answer to this, but I just want to hear from from the applicant that in this new structure, there's nothing being put in that's going to create additional noise. There's no speakers. There's Can you just confirm that for me? Uh, yes. I I'll force his mouth to confirm it. Yeah, there's no additional. It's just the deck and the seating. I mean, we may put some oscillating fans on the post, but they don't make any noise. But that would be the only other no speakers or anything that's going to create no extra noise. Okay, great. Thank you very much.

All right. Uh, any additional um questions from the commissioners at this point before we uh consider a motion? We um are all satisfied? Yes, I do. Go ahead. Um, Commissioner May here. question in regards to prior to opening the salt shack. The property, the parking lot that is right next to your property right now, is that owned by the saw shock or is that city property? That is city property. And how many spaces are in that? The the small the small the small I'm sorry. Is that what you were referring to, Commissioner May? The the the small lot.

Yes. Yes. Yes. The small lot that's attached to that you go in and out right next to the salsa. Yeah. Uh I misunderstood and I don't know much about that parking lot because I can never park there. It is part of We're the lease holder. It is part of our property. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. How many spaces do we have in that? 27. 27 on the record. And

was there any I I just want to make sure on the record. Was there any parking fund that was required uh prior to Salt Shack being in there? Was there any parking fund that was paid into or was that just Yeah, there was a liies on the lake got a variance from the parking requirements and that run with the land ran with the land. So, uh, there was a variance for the initial parking and I don't even think there was a parking fund to pay into when Lily started, but, uh, but there is now.

So, you're saying that there the parking ran with the land, the parking variance? Yes, ma'am. So, um, attorney, what does that basically mean? So it means that they can just move in and use the parking without any further parking requirements based on that running with the land.

I'm not sure that I understand the question, but nothing has ever done away with the variance. You know, the variance still applies. It hasn't been revoked or amended. So I I haven't seen the variance. So that's why I'm not sure how to answer your question. All I can say is let's assume that the variance was granted as has been represented on the record. then it has to still apply. Uh but Commissioner May, we cannot expand on that without either asking for an additional variance or paying into the parking fund.

Got it. So my problem is, and I appreciate uh Commissioner Neck's time on his questions, they were very very good and I wrote a lot of them down. Um my concern and he brought up good points is that the addition the the the existing seats right now are at 200 plus plus

and we're adding an additional 104 seats which the average 30 employees that comes out to 374. So, if you subtract the 30 employees, I mean, honestly, if you were opening up today, then we would have a parking fund of 43 seats instead of 13 seats. But unfortunately, this is after the fact. My concern is the parking. Um, and of course, somewhat of the no speakers, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. Um, I just know that today, you know, I I go there and there's music. I'm just scared that me personally if we don't put a condition in the in the in the ordinance or the resolution, you know, we could have someone put speakers in the future like Commissioner Neck has stated, a manager could be, you know, you could be beyond you could get a incredible job and move on and somebody else gets in and puts speakers in. Um my my other concern is the the um the habitat, you know, the vegetation. Um you're saying that you're only putting the deck on the side where there's no vegetation. Maybe there was ve vegetation there before. We don't know, but there's no vegetation now. So I can understand that. We can't go, you know, backwards. I'm just looking forwards. I do want to put a condition, uh Mr. Chair, in regards to the signage. Um, I know there's signage language in the South Florida Water Management District, but if we can add more signage, I mean, I see boats come up to that shoreline all the time, and I'm just very, very concerned that our shoreline is going to continue to be

uh, not even destroyed is a big word, but it's just going to be completely unprotected. uh just based on no enforcement on that um you know from from the boats. So, I'm still kind of on the fence right now in regards to this. Um, you know, because I'm looking at our, you know, permit criterias, you know, and and I can go over it again. You know, granting of permit criteria number one will not reverse the effect officially adopt a comp plan of the city. That's a question mark because of the environmental issues that I think might still be questionable there. Um such use will not be detrimental to the health, safety or general welfare of persons residing or working in the vicinity. Um maybe it's a safety issue, maybe because of all the the votes and stuff that will be coming because of the increased number of seats. The use will comply with the current regulations conditions specified or codes. Um Mr. Crawford has done a well job, you know, talking about the codes and then the proposed use may be considered desirable at the particular location. I, you know, is it desirable? It's popular, but I'm still on the fence in regards to one and two. So, that's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

Miss Mick, can you can you clarify? Are you suggesting that the signage be in a motion be be part part of um be added to to approval? Is that what you're looking for? You're looking to take it up as if there was if there was a motion right now. Yes. I would like the signage that the sorry the wording that's in the South St. John's Water Management District. Let's see what is it is I think it's number 24. It's uh the permit the permit shall install permanent no more signs as shown on the plants. But I would like to extend that to some of the other areas that where the vegetation is as well.

All right. Well, let me let me see if there's any more um comments and then I will give you the opportunity to make a motion if you wish. There any any more um com are you done, Commissioner May? Was there anything else? Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Any anybody else have any comments? All right. At this time, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was being go gentlemanlike and I'm sorry because you know you got a hot date. I gotta ask this question since you're you're adding 104 speed uh additional 104 seats which should probably be turned over three or four times a day. Okay. Hope so. Yeah.

Well, for their their sake that's going to create a lot more roughage. Are you going to be getting another dumpster with this? because it's pretty much a third of what you're handling right now. That's my question. I didn't see it in my packet. So, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I mean, after knowing you between the patio and the conditional use permit just doesn't address any of that. It's sight. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. That's We're here to just ask for I know you're asking for a deck, but you're adding 104 more seats, right? That means times that by three that comes out to be 312 more dinners. Ruffage.

So I mean what do you think's going to happen? We just I'm just saying you got this one dumpster. It's going to overflow. I I I have heard some questions tonight where I've kind of asked myself. I'm not really sure if this fits the criteria with something that should be considered on a cup. Thank you. But um if we look at section 101-212 subsection 7, believe it or not, solid waste disposal, you know, I mean, which I that's what I take it as his question. So, I mean, I think it's I can answer the question.

Yeah. Um it and I I will certainly let Katherine do that. But the the job of this board is to hear the evidence that is before you at this hearing, not outside the hearing. At this hearing, decide based on competent substantial evidence if we meet the criteria. The only planning compet substantial evidence is the staff report that says we are consistent with the comp plan. We meet all the requirements for a conditional use permit. This board I'm sorry you can't decide on your own that without competent substantial evidence you think it doesn't meet them. That's and and and I'm trying I I don't want to be disrespectful because you guys are volunteers and I wouldn't do it in a hundred years, but but you are constrained by the code and by the quasi judicial nature of of the hearing. And I'm sorry, I'll I'll let Katherine answer now.

So, we have and will continue to increase. Can you come to the microphone because they can't hear you? Yeah, we have and will continue to increase the amount of pickups from the dumpster area. So, we're trying to keep the property looking as good as we can, but if we need to get pickups done every day or multiple times a day, it's just an additional charge from the city, but we have done that and we'll continue to do that to make sure there's no issue. Thank you. That's all she had to answer. Jimmy, you didn't have to tell me how to do my job up here because I could tell you right now that was very disrespectful. Okay. And do not threaten me with a lawsuit cuz I'll see you in court. I did not threaten you with All right. No, you've done it in the past.

All right. So, that was very disrespectful of me and I don't think I'm going out of my boundaries when I talk to the residents that are concerned about the where they live where we moved here for. All right. So, Jim, I'm sorry. That was very disrespectful how you tried to school this old man. I will apologize if you felt it was disrespectful. I did just like the disrespectful. Don't New York or Orlando might claremont. We have only two commissioners here from New York that were preventing overcrowding. All right. So, I'm sorry, Jimmy. I'm that that was that was above the waistline. I below the waistline. Why don't you correct me?

I'm still your friend. You're not getting Christmas cards, but you're still my friend. I apologize to you personally if you felt that way, but I'm a lawyer and that's the law, right? And I and I'm a volunteer commissioner and if I want to ask questions to the residents of Claremont that is concerned about their lake, you're not going to stand there and tell me I only could go what's in this packet cuz I just proved to the staff just by walking in the room. We made a mistake. Sure. Oh, this is not accurate. This is a guesstimation. When I got software at home, I could look at and tell me exactly where the lake is. I don't have 60 the dimensions of the lake so I could tell you how deep this is going. Can I jump in? Can I jump in here? I think it's just it's

okay. You're right. I'm sorry. No offense. I have no but here if you don't Mr. Chair, may I go ahead.

Okay. So, just a couple things. I mean, first of all, some some good legal reminders have been provided by Mr. Crawford as always. I mean, nothing he said was incorrect. This is a quasi judicial hearing. we're limited to the evidence. Um, but you know, the flip side to that is this standard sheet. So, we sent you the standard sheet before hoping that you'll and I've heard Commissioner May refer to it tonight. I always appreciate that. Um, you have standards that you have to look at when deciding the CUP. And so, there's four main I'm just just a brief reminder. There's four main elements. One is that granting the CUP will not adversely affect the comp plan. Two, such use will not be detrimental to the health, safety, and general welfare. Three, the proposed use will comply with the regs and conditions specified in the code. Four, the proposed use may be considered desirable at the particular location. And that's when your code, it's not, this isn't the way how I would write it, but your code provides then six, no, seven other factors. Like what does it mean to determine whether something's desirable at a particular location? It could mean a million different things. Well, you've got seven factors, believe it or not. Number seven, solid waste disposal. Mr. Commissioner Neck's favorite question, you know, and I when I when he first started asking it, I was like, I didn't understand why. I couldn't understand why that would be relevant because that's more of a site plan thing. Lo and behold, it's in the code.

Um, site planning, the development shall be planned and designed to consider building layout. you know there's a there's a factor about avoidance of en environmentally sensitive areas and so that's why generally I've let you ask the questions that you've asked I think a lot of people wonder about the you have a lot of discretion under this code but the flip side to what I would tell you is you remember when deputy city manager Dan Matthysse came and talked and what he was talking about is how we develop a front-facing client-based attitude of public service when we do these hearings. So that's the only thing I think there's a flip side. Yes, these these elements give us the ability to you I'm sorry the ability to ask questions about all of them, but at the same time we want to make sure uh we are the public servants. We serve the people coming here.

All right. Uh councelor, you're 100% right with Dan Mantis coming here. But see, my customer is not the developers. My customer is the city. That's true. The residents. So that should have been asked answered and told to me at that training meeting as well. I don't have a chip on my shoulder. It's just that I don't want to get confused about this. So I actually do have a question for you real quick. Can you explain me that there is a difference just quick yes or no between a residential residential noise ordinance and a commercial ordinance noise ordinance? No, there's no

not in Claremont. We have one noise ordinance. I mean maybe I'm missing the question. The question is I know unless it was changed that I don't know of staff. Could you help me on this with the noise decimal with a meter with the code enforcement going out? Yes sir. Uh Chris I believe what he's referring to the section that you read is believe it was older section. There is another section, maybe we need to go back to it, but there is there's a section that talks about uh decibel readings at property lines. Um it's that's what you're referring to. That's true.

But it's the maximum noise level. Correct. Right. Your general prohibition when it comes to the speakers, the musical devices is property line. Great. Yes. All right. All right. Yes. Go ahead, Commissioner Teddona.

I'm sorry. Um, I think part of the problem, and I'm I'm sure you'll all jump on me, and that's okay. I don't mind it. We're dealing with a code from 2009. Outside is not 2009. This probably represents 2009. But yet it's okay for me to go take a walk, go take a go talk to people that are living in 2026. Claremont in 2009 is nothing. Claremont 2026 is nothing like the code from 2009. And we are getting our tushies handed to us because you have to approve everything that meets our criteria. I'm not. So if you you could do what you got to do with this commissioner, but in my opinion, we have a life safety issue, a an quality of life in Claremont that in my opinion, and again, you could all come after me, supersedes 2009 because it's 2026 out there. Nobody is worrying about human nature. Everything is just fine. everything we always look at is just fine. Everything's going to be fine. But that was 17 years ago. This is 17 years later and I'm sorry for that. But thank you.

Well, I mean that raises a point that was raised which was, you know, the the concern about parking. I mean, you all have some discretion to consider parking, but frankly, not in this case. I mean the the code says that um part the parking is the way and and you already cons I mean commissioner nei to your credit you upfront said that first thing um but you know that's that's the thing and so and that was passed um last year and the city council can always change the amount of the am the money

um whatever the charge is but what we're here for and I I go I don't want to be taken the wrong way it's just you know the the application is fairly um simple, you know, in terms of the cup. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I say one thing, and it's not legal, I promise. And it'll be short. Go ahead.

In in 2009, you could set up a card table in the middle of Montrose and have a poker game and once an hour, you might have to move out of the way. There was shuttered businesses. Now we have a vibrant downtown. People come and say, "Wow, you're better than Winter Garden." I know you hate that comparison, but I hear it because we've got better bones than they do. There's nothing legal about it, but it's supporting an opportunity for residents and business owners in in Claremont to continue this revitalization that has been done and that DPZ is all involved in now. It's a wonderful thing. Yes, we need to look at each one carefully and make sure and we have an antiquated code that doesn't do that very well. Um, that's my spiel. Thank you.

All right. Let's try to move this along at this point. I will entertain anything else from council. We good? All right. Anything else from anybody? I'd like to send a motion if that's all right with you. Go ahead. What is your motion? I'd like to send a motion this be tabled until they at least communicate with the future plans of the direction of the city of Claremont since we're going to be spending somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million when it's all done with the conceptional plans. I mean, that's my opinion and that's why I would like to set this motion of a table. So, that's my first motion. I need a second, I guess. That is a We have a motion. Is there a second for that? I mean, I'm I'm I'm setting a motion to have a table. All right, counselor.

Is that okay here? I just have a question. Brain working on. Yeah, every now and then. Um, my my question is, is it your intention of the motion to indefinitely table it or to table it until DPZ? I there needs usually with this kind of motion there needs to be a either it's indefinite or a time frame. Okay, I'm sorry. I thought I said that. Uh I like this to be tabled until at least they confront or at least have communication with the DPZ department of their direction.

Okay. I mean Jimmy says that there's no conflict with meet me in the middle. So the staff. All right. I was going to include that as well, but I mean, we're still drawing the plans up, spending a lot of money. I would just like to know where if they could table this, so this way it' be better in their favor. Trying to help you out there. I I do appreciate that and and uh I could wait for a second to make our comments, but we would much rather have the vote tonight. We're dying to get this started. Um, and I believe we could certainly talk to DPZ before city council and I would commit personally to you to do that, but we would much prefer to move forward tonight.

Whatever case, I have a motion on the floor. So, that motion is is proper. I Yeah, I think it's intelligible. So, we we have a motion. Did we we have a second? I would second that motion. So, we have a motion and a second. Any conversation on the motion on the floor? All in favor of the motion? I I All oppose. I'm an A for this one. Nay. Is is Commissioner May Commissioner May? Did you vote on that? Um is it delayed? That's why.

Okay. No. Yeah. The motion again is that you're tableabling for the purpose of them reviewing it prior to prior to going to council. Correct. With DP with DPZ. Yes. With the Yes. With the direction of DPZ. I mean, at least communicate with them to find out what DPZ plans for Claremont since we're spending all that. But but the mo the motion is to is to table and not and not take any action,

right, until they have communication. I also want to put add to that motion that it doesn't go past the time limit of their letter from uh St. John's. I believe there's a time limit on it. So, I don't want them to go past that and have to refile it for I'm not that Did you want to cast your vote? I have a question for the attorney. Go ahead. Mr. Rock, Mr. Rock, we already have the vote. Um, so I didn't vote. So, um, I vote no then. That's a deny for the table. Okay. So it's it's four four to two against your motion.

So it is denied. Now taking taking that. Go ahead. Go ahead. Commissioner May. I have a motion on the table. I I want to put a a motion to approve resolution number 2026005R with the conditions that they meet with DPZ planning prior to city council as well as uh providing any documentation from Lake County Water Authority that uh this will not affect any of the shoring or this is an alteration. that will not affect the water quality.

And would you like to you had mentioned a a signage um component previously. Would you like to add that as well? Yes. So add also the signage uh that is stated in the St. John's which says the permitty shall install permanent no more signs as shown on the plans that I would like to extend that as well to the um areas that are habited with vegetation. Okay, that is that is a proper motion asking you to I'll second. Okay, motion second. Um I just want to consult with our attorney. That's a a proper motion in a second though. Yes. Okay, we have a motion second. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion.

I I chair chair votes I. I'm sorry. We had no He said I you said you were I Yeah. And Vinnie, you were you're I for approval. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm denied. Okay. Denying approval. Okay. So, we had one one against five to one. Five to one for approval. All right. That concludes. Congratulations. Thank you. And Vinnie, I know that was my fault. I'm sorry. Okay. Um, since we've all been seated for nearly two hours, I would like to take a fivem minute recess

because the Florida legislature has required us to implement it and it has to in some way, shape or form become a part of the code. Um, I've been asked a lot of questions about it, so I'm I'm trying to summarize just a little bit, but um, you know, in a lot of cities and counties, they have amended their zoning codes to prevent recovery residences. It's one of those things a lot of people don't want them in their neighborhoods regardless of the level. So the Florida legislature took it upon itself to again take away some of your home rule and compel us to have them and that's why this is before you. Okay. Thank you councel for justifying that.

All right. Thank you. That's um staff's report. Is this the appropriate time to ask for any um public comment? Last call for public comment. Would anybody like to please line up at the microphone? I think doesn't look like we have any public comment. So, um I will bring it up um if anybody from the commission would like to address this. We'll start to my right to have Mr. Kramer. Thank you, Chair. Recovery housing serves individuals who are working to rebuild their lives. And as a city, we both have a legal obligation and a moral responsibility to treat certified recovery residences appropriately under state and federal law. This ordinance brings our zoning code into alignment with those requirements. At the same time, compassion does not mean the absence of standards. Certified recovery residents must meet state certification requirements and they must remain subject to all of our life safety, building, parking, and property maintenance codes just like any other residences in our community. If issues arise, we retain the authority to enforce our regulations. This amendment is not about expanding land use categories. It's about clarity, consistency, and legal compliance. It protects individuals in recovery while also protecting neighborhood stability through enforceable standards. I believe as as commission we can support recovery, uphold the law and maintain the character of our community at the same time. So I will be supporting this.

Okay. Thank you very much. Commissioner Neck. No questions. All questions were answer. All questions were asked and answered. Commissioner Ensua. Commissioner Commissioner Teddona. Um, just for your own edification, there's some additional information on Florida's FAR site, the Florida Association of Recovery SER, uh, RE Residences. Um, there's a little bit more information in case you want to dive into it. There is a link to an Excel spreadsheet of the current counties where there are residences if you want to take a look at it. But uh really that's all I have is just wanted to share that information.

Great. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner May, do you have anything to add? Yes, of course. I always do. Um there's no trees involved.

Attorney W. Thank you so much for the explanation and yes, I understand this is a requirement and mandated by the state. Um just some questions in regards to um parking requirements. Is there any parking requirements that we're adding to the language of this ordinance? Um because I understand that the certified recovery residence is somewhat like a community residence. So would you be adding parking requirements within this this ordinance? Because I I'm assuming parking res uh parking requirements are different for each level, especially level four. So that's my one question. Um also under level four, my understanding under level four is that it is clinical services but you have no clinical services. So are we not allowing clinical services for level four? So that's my uh second question because if we are providing clinical services then that should limit their location within the city. Okay.

Um because it would be considered more like an institutional use for a medical facility. The other question that I have is I understand that you're making the city manager or the city manager's designate, but I still feel that maybe a city planning division should be the oversight because they are dealing with codes. Um so as part of the uh pro the review and approval process um the other question is I understand that this is administrative only administrative review process only. I don't know if you want to add language to that as well in your or in your res in your ordinance. Um, and let's see. I did look at what Howie and the Hills did and they did uh specify a section within their ordinance that basically states uh that they designate a zoning district and it and what they say is recovery residences may be established under this article. I know you have in any I guess as residential uses but they went uh beyond saying in any multifamily residential zoning district because it is you know they are somewhat considered community residences. And then I think my last thing um is if I can find it. I don't know where I put my my chicken scratch here. Hold on. Oh, application content. Um, I saw that within I think city of Orlando they had proof of certification as part of their application content and

I think that's it. Okay. I hope you took I hope you took all that. Would staff like to answer? Um, okay. Or or illustrious attorney.

I mean I'll I'll do my best. Um, first of all, I'll readily admit I'm not an expert in recovery residences. Um, so I think you've raised some interesting points, Commissioner May. Uh, the the easy thing to address is the city manager or city managers designate. We talked about that with staff originally. Uh, I I had it designed as going to, you know, planning and development services. Um but in discussions behind the scenes, we kind of came to the conclusion that it may be that the building folks have more to do with it. And so what we're going to do is have the city manager designate it with one department and see how it goes and if it would work better in a different department. We want to learn as we go. Uh however, if if you feel strongly or the commission feels strongly and and um you know, we're open to that and and we'll of course um take your conditions to the council. Um I did not plan on adding parking uh as an element to this, but again, I think if you want to do that, that sounds reasonable to me. Um a lot of different cities and counties have done different things. I I definitely like the idea in the application of mentioning Yeah. or having them confirm, you know, in an affidavit or whatever that it's certified. Um, and probably some other things, too. I know that's not everything, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

Yeah. I was just looking at uh some of the other cities, specifically Orlando, and I just looked at Howie in the hills. But the one thing that I was concerned was on parking because I know there's homes, it says, you know, homes with six or fewer residences are deemed single family units. So, you have two spaces, but when you start getting into the homes that have seven to 14 residences and then all of a sudden you're right next door to a single family home, then you have issues with parking. Mhm.

So, you know, so is that level of or is that size of a home appropriate to be next to a single family home? So, I guess I guess through your pre-application process or your application process, you guys will, you know, vet that. I believe I I think this is probably maybe a question I would have for staff, too. I mean, depending on the size of the recovery residence, I assume the parking requirement would be based on code for size and and things like that. usually on that it's based on, you know, we classify it as a single family home. Um, you know, even if it's got a capacity of like six bedrooms, single family home. It's historically been looked at in the code. Um,

while back we had a gentleman come forward for a variance where he put pavers on his yard, front yard and the sideyard. It was a very large two-story home. And again, um, it's it's one of those things that's very hard to mandate because if you say single family home and then you switch, well, if it's used for recovery residence, then it's this or that. And maybe that's something we have to look at. I I'm unsure. This the statute doesn't require that we address it, but it seems like a common sense thing that we should take into account. Um I'm not sure how to I I I'll need to think about that. And

yeah, especially especially under the level four. I mean because the level four seems to me a little bit uh more intense um service because you know you have a 24 even though number level three has the 247 or 24 hours a day 7 days a week but it doesn't have that clinical services right but in level four you know based on what I was reading on the law level four seems like it does have clinical services so you have doctors that or nursing you know that can you or clinical you know psychologists people that show up that are part of the program.

So, you're going to have to have, you know, those type of parking spaces, you know, for level four. But in your level four, uh, Mr. Wag, you have no clinical services. So, I was kind of confused there because based on what I was reading, level four does have clinical services. I don't think the ordinance limits it at all. So um so for instance in city of Orlando and we're not Orlando and I know we're not and we don't want to be Orlando but it does say city should have authority to deny level four if located within a single family or next to a single family home because of the level of services that level four provides.

And and I think so I mean I I actually now I I think I see your point. So I the way we the way I wrote it was I did prevent clinical services from being in level four. I didn't do it because of the parking but um maybe it's up clinical services aren't the only things offered at level fours. Um I was thinking those probably wouldn't be appropriate for a residential area. Um that's what I was thinking when I wrote that. So anyways, that that was my thinking. So I think we could have it one way either take either allow clinical services and maybe put an additional parking requirement or keep clinical services out and keep it residential regular. I this is a new one for me.

Yeah. I mean do we have any clinical people like in the health department? I mean not the health department but um you know from the hospital or somebody who can assist in that. So, but you know, those were just, you know, of course, we're not allowed to limit them because it is a service that is mandated by a state, but I just want to make sure that all of a sudden, you know, we have, say, for instance, a home in downtown that is next to kind of like a a B&B, you know, and then it turns into a big, you know, huge, you know, institutional thing and then all of a sudden they have parking everywhere. I just I just wanted to make sure

that those that's it. That's all. All right. Thank you. Good job. So, um I guess my my my comments and questions would be is is it critical that we pass something now or should we we take a little bit more time with I mean it's absolutely critical. It's critical that we we we need to pass this right now. So, we would need to we're past the due date for integrating it to the Okay. Well, I appreciate that. Um entertain a motion. Well, I will entertain a motion um for this ordinance. I will move to uh accept ordinance number 2026-013. I'll second it. We have a motion. We have a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I

I. Chair votes I. Commissioner May. Sorry. I Okay. 6 in support. Thank you. That is all we have on our agenda. We are adjourned.