Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Welcome to the Town of Central Planning Board meeting. Would you please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Chuck, could you lead us all, please?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. We're operating with three board members instead of five, got two out. So just a heads up on that. And first order of business is the approval of our August 19th meeting minutes. Any questions or comments? I'll make a motion to approve. Do we have a second?

Second.

Chuck?

Yes.

Mary?

Yes.

And I vote yes. Minutes have been approved. Now we will open the meeting to public comment. If there's anybody here that would like to address the board on any active application, you can do so now. Given nobody's approach, we'll close the public input and move on to the first agenda item. This is a continuation of a public hearing for a two-lot subdivision. And then a site plan.

Hello, my name is Mark Pallott. I'm with Emerald Development. In reference to the subdivision, there were some additional comments that did come out from the town engineer, Mark, which I would suggest that we'll just Correct the issues on those subdivision-wise and probably be back in front of you again for that.

So we're just looking to keep the public hearing open?

For the subdivision, yes.

There are two minor comments that you can address in the form of a petition. So you can do a commission. with the you know one of the things you're going to think about is your timing on getting a subdivision before you have the actual project you're going to notice in a subdivision if approved would have 90 days before you have a problem yeah that's fine that's fine that's why i'm suggesting that i'll come back again and

Do you want to come back in? That's fine.

You're sure?

Yeah, not a problem. Understood.

So what are we going to do? Move forward with conditions or wait?

Yeah, that'd be fine.

Right. Then we'll go ahead and move on to the site plan review part of the process. Beautiful.

We'll jump into the site plan review. Based on the last meeting, obviously, there was comments and questions. It's full disclosure. I did reach out to the chairman just to get clarity on a couple of questions that I had just so that I was addressing it properly in doing so. It was more or less onto the density that we talked about, uh, going from 30% down to 15 at the end of the day. So, from that, uh. Conversation, I went back and have, uh, address basically everything that came out of the meeting. You know, we were able to. Reduce the, the density down to 15 is not an easy task to say the least. Um, and, uh, we submitted revised plans, unfortunately took, you know, took a little time and we got those in yesterday. Um, was yesterday or today 1 of the 2 either way I have a large scale plan of it. Um, with a reduction showing how we reduced it, uh. We're able to do the, um, the fiber cement board versus vinyl on the exterior that was done. We've shifted the buildings back and forth the 2 fee, et cetera. So, everything that was within the architectural reviews comments were addressed except for 1 other item that came out, which was previous. I might have been. Um. What it came out yesterday. I wasn't able to get that taken care of on the plans. So you have a copy. Do you have a copy of the architectural review comments? Yes. I'll have it. So in the architectural review comments, number one, it talks about gables. We were already adding back gables onto the facade already as part of the redesign I was doing. So that was kind of addressed. The one thing that was not addressed, which I just, again, I didn't know was, it's new to me. Maybe I missed it the last time. If I did, I apologize. It was talking about the first floor having a sloped roof. So that right there was not a problem. Again, I went and took a look at the two facilities that he's referring to. That slope roof's at the entry points, and that's where they're located. So we already have a covered entry already. Making it slope is not a problem. That's easy enough to do. So it's just a matter of us... Again, I didn't get that until yesterday, the 18th. So I wasn't able to get onto the plans fast enough, to tell you the truth, for that. So other than that, the only other comment he had on here was his comment about the outdoor lockers, package lockers. Again, that was more of an operation and property management company. They found it beneficial to keep it there just because, one, these things are notified to the tenants via, if you have Amazon or those type of, they always take a picture and send it to you, your package is here. So they found that people are more aware more have to go and get their package knowing that if it's full out there, you know, there might be, you know, overflow. So it forces them to really pay attention other than leaving it in the room for a week on an end at the end of the day. So it's really been, it's more of an operational thing that they, as a property management company, they feel it strongly that it serves them better as well as the tenants better in the location that they have it. But other than that, I think we've addressed everything else. I can walk you through the plan if you like.

We haven't seen it yet.

No, you haven't. I mean, how many units is that? It's down to 66.

How about now? So we reduced it from that and brought it in. Okay, because that's the longer end. So we found the benefit of this. See how we can reconfigure the units, bring it in, still maintain requirements that we need to maintain on the state level, the 1.8 ratio that I need from units to the bed.

So that section of the building is not as long as it used to be? By how much?

I want to say 25 to 30 feet. I just don't know off the top of my head the exact number. So they reduced it down and brought it in close to this area. These have been emailed to town again just trying to produce all that stuff and get it done fast enough to just unfortunately just can't get it done. But if you have plans here a little playing itself in civil plan. You know, solar panels, the gables, whatever reason I don't know why they didn't throw these on the lines here. These are all famous people. It was all for this location here.

but it's just it's unusual for us to take action without having the documentation out of time to be able to review it and I was talking to the fire chief. He wanted to confirm that the e-bike storage that was inside the complex has no electric outlets.

The storage room, unless there's a code requirement for outlets for emergency use, that will only be the case. Other than that, no, we're not looking to have any outlets in there so the kids can charge. And if there is any outlets in that room, because of code, we'll put some type of safety feature on it so that they don't get access to it. So one is the building code requirement and the other is the chief's requirement. So I think we can achieve, if there's a building code requirement, we can achieve it by putting some type of device onto it so that they can't get access to it. Only the property management group can get access to it for cleaning purposes, stuff like that.

Yeah, I really appreciate all the conversation that we've had and you're working with us and I was working with you. One of the concerns I had was the architectural elevation of this structure, the what was 450 feet. And that's kind of what our architectural review engineer had mentioned as well. It's just it was big for that community and for our standards.

The difficulty is that in the other locations that he refers to, through the site configuration, they had the luxury to create an L-shaped building that really, once you stretch it out, it's still lengthwise fairly close to the same length, but it just had that luxury of depth in the site where this site doesn't have that luxury, unfortunately.

Yeah, and I get that. That luxury is what really enhances those buildings. I was around on the town board when we created that development. We worked with Assemblyman Bregman. It was envisioned to be a town center at one point.

i'm struggling with this massive 430 foot is it now it's less than that so i what the actual distance i decided i couldn't tell you i've stopped my head but it has been reduced down and as well as the uh percentage longer than a football field longer than a football field by one and a half yeah

Chuck, any questions or comments? This time.

Mary.

I do have concerns about how big it is. It doesn't conform with really anything we have in Cicero right now that I know of, let alone the neighboring buildings, housing, the senior housing that's there.

And I was hoping that the design work that we did would help it, and it has. Steve, any questions or comments at this point?

I don't. No, thank you.

Neil?

Mark? I don't remember whether it's like the season better, or do you feel like they're going to like their money this time?

yeah it won't be ground mounted lighting go just it'll be either on top of it or backlit itself, you know halo maybe. But that's until I get an application and for that we'll go through that in detail with you guys, I think the lighting.

Oh, if it does it needs to be removed, because we find that to be a problem, because you don't want to have snow on it just in other words so.

yeah. That's really all I can say.

Okay. So, Neil, our job is to make a recommendation to the town board. And we would never do an approval based on the lack of material that we have at this point.

You'd wait and evaluate that, which you just received yesterday?

I haven't seen it yet. So, just now.

Essentially, you asked us to do something that we haven't had time to do. you can vote on it the way it is, or you can push it off to the next meeting, which will give you time to review the new plans that just came in.

Do you have the revised elevations as well? Yeah.

Yeah, I do.

That would be additional gables, entries. Again, the only thing I couldn't which Thomas came in yesterday, is over the entry point, similar to what he is commenting on the other two facilities is where they had the assaults over every agency.

And that represents the 66 units?

Yeah, it does. It does. Again, you're putting in multiple points of view of the building, you know, the ends, the sides. It turns that angle there, so they have to adjust it so it looks like it's

And you still only have one elevator?

Yeah, that's one of the number of things that.

Yeah, that.

We. Three floors. Laundry is another one.

Yeah. Laundry is on every floor. We've done that. Yeah, it's on every floor.

Well, code says every unit. That's what my point was.

Yeah, it will be three, two, let's do it on every floor. So we've done that on every floor. We were able to squeeze it in somehow, someplace, make it work.

Well, Mary's right. It's very massive when you look at it like that. Almost like a city block in big cities and row homes.

Those are freestanding ones like that, but we did extend the, you know, stone base on the entire building, where the other buildings across the street only had the columns at the entry and that's it.

You had a half a dozen trees crossed it.

Oh, yeah, a lot of trees on it. The site is fully landscaped across the front. And I'm not sure. Yeah, they're there. You can see it right there. Not planted the other trees.

Do you just show that to the audience or the public?

Why does it have to be one massive long building?

It's a site. It's so narrow right here going through. This is probably not the thing that's it. When they did this and put this road in here, it's really kind of silly in a sense because it just created a very small parcel here. And then this put that on there. So really couldn't do it else should. Because this right here allows the fire department to have access around the entire building. Whereas those other buildings, you don't have that full access to it.

Could it be two buildings in that?

It's just, that just, you can't, if you're trying to create two entry points, you stretch it, you don't have enough room there, privacy-wise. We looked at that, we looked at, we thought about it, we thought that over just so it's convenient to the people living there. but you could do two buildings, not units. One story, that building that fell was once a couple thousand, wasn't big. And then you have weapons here, federal weapons. You really need a sense of what you have in a buildable type area.

for a 65-unit apartment complex.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the parking ratio is higher now, but it reduced the percentage down. So it's like at 1.77, I think it is now. I can move more parking and make more green space, but I didn't think it was higher than what you guys were comfortable with. Well, no, they left them in.

So, Council, we can do one of two things. We can make a motion now, a recommendation, because they've got a public hearing scheduled next Wednesday.

Yes, I do.

Coordination of what's going on now. And they're having a public hearing on something you probably haven't seen before. That just came yesterday, or you can make the most make motion now. Based on everything that I've heard, you know, you can make the motion to prove to deny to improve the conditions. But it's up to you if you thought you had adequate time to do the plan.

Yeah, I think the biggest change is really from an architectural standpoint.

It's up to them. Yeah, I know.

In general terms, it's reduced the number of units and added the finishes that were requested. So it's...

If you have a public hearing, you can vote.

So if we made a motion to recommend a denial, the town board certainly can override that.

They won't. I think they . No, I can't. I don't know what they would do.

I agree.

I would think they hold your pain very highly because you guys are doing all the work to vet out the issues and stuff. So they're going to look at you as, you know, a very trustworthy consultant in some respects.

Can I ask one more question? Yeah. The one elevator?

Yeah.

How big is it? And it fit an ambulance?

Absolutely. It does. It does. Yeah, we have to. Any elevator that goes in needs to have at least one that is large enough for a stretcher. Yep.

Jeff Davis. Sorry, approaching. I appreciate it. If you guys, obviously, plans have come in, you need more time to look at them. I don't want to push you on a recommendation. I don't think that makes sense if you're not comfortable making a recommendation tonight and you want more time to look at it. And if there's more, you know, there's been further comments here tonight, and Mark said, you know, a new comment that came in yesterday from the MRB. If we have to work with the town to push back a meeting then we'll work with the town board to do that but um the board's got to be comfortable in their recommendation so correct uh take your direction on that but if you guys want to us to go back and do some more work on that do another submittal hopefully we don't get another comment letter the day before and uh and then we can uh we can come back to you do you have a recommendation i would recommend you get the opportunity to do what you've been doing

All right, we'll go that route.

And then you will discuss that with the town board and get all of their scheduling straight.

We'll have to go back to the town board and modify that. I assume they don't want to move forward with a public hearing where they don't have a recommendation yet.

They may open it.

They could open it and then hold it open. Correct, which is fine. Yeah, it's probably been advertised. It's already been advertised.

Yeah, so I assume it'll be opened, and we'll go into that knowing the fact that the intent is to keep it open.

Okay.

Yeah.

Terrific. All right. Thank you very much.

Yeah, perfect. Thanks.

Have a good night.

Thanks.

We will move on to the third item on the agenda. This is a continuation of a site plan review. This is a proposed redevelopment of a former Walgreens at 7973 Brewton Road and Codnoy Road.

Yes, thank you.

Good evening. Good evening. How are you?

I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you?

Neil Zinsmeier, Naparella Consulting. Anthony Gizzi. He represents Streamline. He is the purchaser under contract for this project, the developer. Real quickly, I'd like to just update what has changed since we've last been here. Shake Shack is still the anchor, but we lost what we previously proposed as a northern tenant. uh they occupied the northern space it was called kava they have backed out since they're going to go across the street so now we have one known user in three fluctuating users for retail or restaurant we did ghost in the space directly next to shake shack a potential restaurant it was designed to be like a sale at shop or a subway or something of that sort a low intense user And Shake Shack removed the drive-thru as well. They deemed they didn't need the drive-thru, so that's gone. We still kind of show the drive-thru ghosted in from the Walgreens in hopes to maybe bring a bank in or some other tenant that might want a drive-thru, but there is no known user for that specific drive-thru right now. Besides that, the plans have pretty much stayed the same. We addressed Mark's comments about some of the notes we added. There is still, I think, the elephant in the room about the parking. So what do you folks feel about the parking ratio? Our parking ratio is about the same as what Banderson has next door, multi-strip center, tenants that come and go. What do you folks feel?

Yeah, so... It does feel tight to me as well, especially when we don't know what the other tenants are.

Right.

In one of your arguments, maybe that's not the right word, about the Shake Shack, it was that they have a drive-thru, and I was going to reduce parking.

That was our previous argument.

That kind of changes that discussion a bit. There's certainly enough parking for a Shake Shack. Yes. Talking with Mr. Parrish, we would definitely want to have you come back to the planning board for future tenants to confirm that we're going to have enough parking. You're going to have to rework the numbers for the Shake Shack, too. Because of the drive-thru.

I mean, Shake Shack has accepted this plan. Obviously, they wouldn't sign the lease because they, what did they say, they want 40-ish?

Yeah.

So that leaves 28 for the other tenants. So 40-ish for one and 20-something for three others. Shake Shack will be the most intense user, obviously. You're not going to have a competitor. Crystal Ball, I certainly understand. It is unknown. But as Anthony was saying, with his lease agreements, no tenant is going to sign up as well with a shortage of parking.

No, they'd get site plan approval.

No way.

So our hope is to just to say, get site plan approval. I'm just throwing that out there. With the intent to allow similar uses. But if something changes to where there's a drive through use, we would come back. So we would like to get approval for. Retail, because retail is not an intense use. I'll throw out some other names on the end cap. They're talking to a mattress company. Again, no signed lease, so we don't know yet for sure. So those are likely the other users that come in here. We're not going to have another intense user, Crystal Ball, that's going to compete with Shake Shack, that kind of thing. Our hope is to... get towards site plan approval, not having to come in for every small retail tenant, but if there was an intense user that required a drive-through or a big change of use, like some of the other stuff that's allowed in the GC zone. There's some things that obviously would never come here, like a hotel, a daycare, church, that kind of stuff. The intent is to have a commercial plaza, commercial tenants, retail, or small restaurants. But not have to come back and bug you guys every time we want to go from a milkshake place to a smoothie place or a Verizon to a T-Mobile store, that kind of thing.

I'm talking about the initial tenants once it's set up. So you got one tenant now.

Correct.

Three open spots.

Yes.

So as those three, as you find three new tenants. We need to do something about that. I'm not sure it would be fair to throw that onto Steve's office, especially since the parking seems short already understood. And a good good percentage of them are being taken.

Go ahead. Just go ahead. Sorry, Anthony gives a part of the development team. So the difficulty just to give you some color to move forward would be without approval would be tough for us to get a lender to get on board without understanding how the whole project that we have the ability to have approvals and lease to tenants that come along without having to come in every time for an approval every time we get a tenant. If it gives you any comfort, usually the retailers that we work with, which will be similar to what Benderson has next door, They're usually a little more stringent on parking ratios for their business because they're the ones directly affected. They're not going to come here if they feel like there's not enough parking for them to maximize their business plan. So usually when it gets to the committee, they evaluate the parking at usually a tougher standard than we would or a municipality would, because they're the ones directly affecting. Because if the parking lot's full, when a customer comes in, they're just going to move on to somewhere else and not deal with it. That directly affects them, the tenant, because there's not enough people coming to, enough parking for people to come and spend money at their businesses. So usually, they're a good governor if that gives you any comfort of keeping the parking ratio where it needs to be for the businesses that are in the center. We also do the same thing across the state. This is what we do. We know it doesn't make sense to overpark a situation where our tenants aren't going to be able to survive and then therefore go out of business because no one can come there and park and keep them in business. So I don't know if that gives you any comfort. I think our parking ratio is similar to what Benderson has next door. Our tenant mix is going to be similar to what Benderson makes because the investment requires a certain level of tenancy here. because we're redoing the building, you're going to get Shake Shack and similar national and regional tenants that are going to want to come in here. We're talking to two or three of them right now, but we understand the mix as developers that you can't overburden a parking lot or else no one's going to survive. That's him.

But we have a job to do as well.

Absolutely. I understand that. It would be difficult for us to get a lender on board for us to move forward. We had to just keep coming back.

Spent 30 years in real estate. How would they even know?

Well, they want, when you go for a loan, they want your approvals and to understand what your approvals are giving them when they give you the money.

So Mark and Steve, would you be comfortable with stipulating certain occupancy that would work with the 28 spots that are left?

Well, I think that's a legal question, isn't it?

Yeah, maybe I can help with that one. That would be very difficult to enforce. It puts your code enforcement in a very bad situation because now you have this unclear, you know, idea as to what that tenant's actually going to be. One of the things that you would want to look at is the impact of different types of tenants on the actual, you know, project, which you're going to improve. And the whole financing thing will not our concern A bank would look at the rent roll and right now you're taking a shot. You wouldn't be relying on the other three rent rolls because there are no rent rolls there for you to rely on.

Yeah, but we would be.

In the future, if you get a rent roll and went back to the bank, you would show them a new tenant and a new lease.

But it would be contingent on us coming back.

You just want to get out of coming back, but it's not the banking thing. I don't think it's working.

Okay, that's, that's fine. But if we move forward like this, you'll see that.

So I'm thinking, you know, like a mattress sale. That would work, right? But how do we define the uses that it can use? And Steve, I'm going to have to defer to you as well. I mean, do you want that burden?

I mean, I've run into the situation in other circumstances, and it makes it difficult. It makes it really difficult trying to determine. We've done other ones where you have to specify the use, the low-intensity use, and then it makes it difficult for them to have the opportunity to get various tenants. So, you know... I don't know if you can limit the parking spaces to the square footage, the tenant spaces, and then that limits them. Or the remaining tenant spaces. I don't know what Mark thinks about that.

Well, again, I think coming back, getting approval of this plan with the Shake Shack, and having the condition that they come back for additional tenants who see the parking to me, uh, if, if the Shake Shack is up and running by the time you are coming with your next tenant, um, then we've been able to see how the site is operating, whether or not all these 40 spaces that Shake Shack says they want to have are being utilized. So you can do a parking analysis at that time to see how the building's operating and see how many extra spaces you have left and how it might fit with a future tenant. To me, it gives you more flexibility because then we can look at how the site's operating and say, Maybe a more intense use than we might otherwise put as a condition would be allowable because there might be more parking spaces there. Who determines that? You could see where a bank would look at this and say. I'm not a bank. I'm not worried about that. Well, then, I mean, that's where we are.

In order to build things and redevelop something, you need money to do that. You have to go to a lender to get it. So, I mean, it kind of stops it down its tracks.

Well, you have to approve site. You're going to have an approved site plan, but you have to have an approved user. And with the understanding that if you have future users, you need to come and see if it fits as an appropriate use on the site. So you've got the rest of this building to utilize in one manner or another. So what makes us any different than the parcel next door? That's approved and running and up and running. Here it is. Did they go through the same process? They came back for every time. I can't tell you that. I don't think so. But they don't have a Shake Shack taking up a significant portion of parking. I mean, if you came back and said, would we have 68 spaces?

Total, correct.

So roughly a little bit less than 2 thirds, that's about 60% of parking. is being utilized by a tenant that's only taking up maybe a third of the leaseable space here.

Well, that's for them to get comfortable with. Okay.

Well, and so that's fine. And my point being, they might, you know, after the fact that they may get up running, they might realize only 30 of these spaces are being used. And again, that's freeing up more spaces. So it's fine. We can look at that site there. It works. It's doing whatever with the mix of uses it has. This is different. So I don't want to compare it to apples to apples, because it's not. Because again, they don't have a Shake Shack taking up 2 thirds of their parking.

This is only for second users. Oh yeah, at this point, we can't move forward. We won't be able to move forward without. Yeah, we got to wait.

If you don't mind, then we'll table it until we have a known second user until yeah that's fine parking demand is because there's obviously going to be a big difference between a retail mattress store and another restaurant so the hopes would be to have another signed tenant that's a retail user that would put the board at more comfort and give anthony and his team uh his financial obligations that's fine but we can go through a few other things that are sure yeah please you're all set We haven't seen comments from municipal design group. You get today.

Yeah, so you reach out today. Apparently they have a conflict.

One of their reviewers is a partner in architectural firm, yes.

So what I told Anthony was that from my perspective, and I talked to Mark a little bit about this, the building looks really nice. You've done a nice job with the landscaping. The board doesn't even know what you have. So architectural review is going to be done by us. We're good with it.

That's fair. And architectural plans have not changed. They're the same that we presented last time.

You did a decent job with it.

CAVA is gone now, but we have tenant space labeled generically now.

I'll just go through a couple of my questions. I had mentioned on this map there's a conflict between present zone industrial and then down here it says general commercial. I don't know if this plan is going to get sent in and signed and all that. I just want to make sure it gets corrected.

I will have that corrected.

And then on the plan, the notes say that the dumpster size will be determined by the tenants. Does that mean nothing's going to change with the surrounding

We show double dumpsters, which is more than we typically would show. In reference to the size, it's actually the design, but we show Shake Shack requires the two, and then the other tenants are going to have access to the other two, so it's doubled up. So it's twice as big as what's out there now.

My point is it says to be determined by the, so what are we approving?

It's not going to get bigger. I can tell you that. I can word it differently. Right.

And even if it stays within the fencing of the dumpster.

I can put a max size on there that says it won't be bigger than this or won't be bigger as shown.

Mark, on your notes, you mentioned the drainage at the dumpster and there was a note on the plan. I saw the note you're comfortable with. I didn't understand what the notes was.

There is a note. It would be clear if it was directed at that area suggesting what needs to be done. It's kind of

Yeah, that's the low point of the site. All of it drains to the west there, including toward the dumpster pad. But we can clean it up with some spot elevations.

Doesn't it say it's like moving curving or something?

There's some drop curving there.

The problem is actually behind the dumpsters. It's had to jump out a bit more than it did previously. And so, and the town and vineyard brought this concern up. So there's a swale along the west side that flows to the north. John Potter, past that dumpster pan and that, in the best condition. John Potter, So the concern was that, with the addition of this we don't want that blocking the drainage coming in nature continues behind.

John Potter, So does the reference note take care of that.

John Potter, It does not as well as they were explicitly as I like, but.

John Potter, I can do I think you're feeling hearing yeah i'll do a blow up sections, you know.

John Potter, But. John Potter, But. be a little more comfortable. I think it's there, but it would be more comfortable. It's a little more explicit.

Understood. That's not a problem.

That's all I have, Chuck.

Well, first, I'm glad to see it's not another chicken coop. Come on.

We've turned a lot of these into dollar stores, too. So better use them.

Jack has 60 places, at least in the States.

The newest one is in DeWitt.

Is that the old Friendly?

That's the old Friendly. That one doesn't have a drive-thru either. That's a stand-alone though. That's the only thing that would have fit there. That was the first one. This is the second one, right? Locally?

I wonder if you know what their parking situation is?

In DeWitt? Would you guys park there?

I can look into it.

I'm just curious how to compare it.

we can do that i'll find it i mean they developed it so they'll have all the info they might be a good guide to you know think about it anyway friendly yeah going from restaurant to restaurant this is going from drugstore to restaurant

But these drug stores, like they're on good corners. It's not turning into a spirit Halloween and dollar trade.

Good traffic, yeah.

And the tenants are comfortable now. A lot of these tenants like to be freestanding. They're getting comfortable with going in line on these corners.

Sure.

That's a great spot.

Yeah, it's really great.

Mary, thank you. So you had considered having the drive-thru, but you're not having the drive-thru.

Shake Shack felt better. They were comfortable peeling back the drive-thru. They were comfortable with the parking ratio and the way they're earned. When they do a drive-thru, they have to set up two kitchens, one for the drive-thru and one without. So they actually have less employees, fewer employees working when it's

uh no drive-thru use just sit down use and they they felt like this was a better opportunity for them so this is you go into the counter yeah in order yeah and then there's an indoor seating right and how many people i'm sure we already went through this but i you should have the footprint from the previous one i didn't have it again i think it's actually four seats

Yeah, 62 seats.

62. So 40 is probably pretty close.

Yeah.

Spots.

Yeah, I mean, everybody comes in groups of threes or fours possibly, singles too, if you never know.

And then I read in someone's review the patio fencing. What was that?

Didn't have it labeled, I think. Yeah. That's been addressed now. Okay.

Nothing that wasn't labeled was for the car, which we take it.

Yeah, we had 2 patios, but with the cover gone, we got rid of the patio on the north side. Okay. Now we just have the Shake Shack patio on the south side, and there's a fence detail.

Yeah.

Okay, Steve, I think.

Thank you.

You know, I mean, Mark, anything additional just a couple, I guess. Again, at the request of the town engineer, she'd like you to connect the lateral, the new lateral, to the existing manhole that's up here as opposed to coming into the sewer at that location.

And we can do that. And that connection was for the kava. Now that kava's gone, that connection might not even be necessary until we have a user.

Yeah. It's just easier to connect to the manholes.

That's a town sewer, right? It's not a county sewer? Town sewer?

Uh, and then the light levels underneath the canopy, uh, let's try and see those reduced to the next month.

We can adjust that for the next time. Any concerns?

Nope. Anything else from you?

I think we're good.

We'll go back to work and

We'll see you soon. We'll see you when we have another tenant lined up for sure. Have a good night. Thank you.

Thanks. Good luck.

Next item is CNY Golf Shop at 8457 Burton Road. Welcome back.

Welcome back. Good evening, Tim Coyier, INUZI Enrollments. Does anybody want smaller, some additional prints?

Yes, please. Smaller.

You pretty much address almost everything added a lot more windows. More taping in the broad and adjusted the building side quite a bit specifically with the new bump out. Overall, again, I think it's a great improvement. I think we addressed pretty much all the comments. We didn't have any new comments or any comments from the architectural review.

Thank you.

If you want, I can go down them real quick that we actually did. But if you have any questions other than that, I can go through them.

When Tim walked in, I said, what the heck with all the windows? It looks beautiful. It does. um do you want me to go through i i'm good but you guys if you want me to go through any questions chuck i wondered if what those were kind of drawings really bold now looks great the landscaping looks great yeah oh looks good all right um the only question i had looking at it online was lighting in the back but i

You have lighting on the new and the old building. Very bright. Yeah.

When I was looking online, I just didn't see next to any of the doors, but I see you have it all.

There's a lot.

Yes. So I'm good. Thank you.

As am I. Steve. Tim, I know you said you reached out to Aqua for the hydrant. Is that in process?

Yep. We do show it on the plan. We show them. Yep. Steve. Okay.

Yeah. Mark. I'll say I guess the lights are all open up. Yes. Yep.

Provided the light cut off sheets and all that. Yep. Okay.

I'll make a motion for our standard secret. Do we have a second? Second. Yes. Mary?

Yes.

I vote yes. Secret passes. Neil, would you propose a motion for approval?

Hold on.

They haven't voted yet.

Sorry, but I didn't like it. all right we're going to move to the actual resolution approving the application on the seaway golf dot in range uh monique patterson peterson 8457 burton road this will go straight for condition on the following one the car scheme rendering gender elevations presented by the afghan to the planning board in regard to this application will be incorporated by reference into this segment according to actual projects are substantially conformed to the items and would somebody like to make that a motion

I'll make that motion.

Second.

Chuck?

Yes. Mary?

Yes.

And I vote yes. You're approved.

Thank you very much.

Next item on the agenda is a proposed 5,250 square foot building addition for

property at 5718 Mud Mill Road. Good evening. How you doing? Good, thank you. How are you?

Julian with Plumlee Engineering, Peter Paragon, advocate and owner. We presented last month, got some feedback from Mark Parrish. I think we addressed all those comments. I do owe him a detail on the gravel. We need to get that to him. We did a landscaping plan, and that was reviewed. And they felt we were a little bit short on the number of bushes. We were wondering is there any give and take on that feedback? Because I know the planning board has the power to waive that. So they thought our landscaping was sufficient. Could we run with what we got? Or we got to add 48 more bushes.

We do have leeway. We like landscaping. And I had mentioned, did you hear me at all? We do have leeway. But we do like landscaping as well. I'm pretty sure I mentioned at the last meeting at the entrance, landscape beds on both sides. That was not addressed.

Okay.

So you can get some more in there.

If I can add, in this particular property, there's no water So I would appreciate it if we can review the amount of shrubs because they're just not gonna make it. So I'll do anything with trees. I'll do some shrubs. I think the MDR is asking me for 54 shrubs. They will be dead within two months. So it's kind of a tough piece of property. It's really a barn to house vac trucks and dump trucks. There's no employees. They come in there, they park their personal vehicles. They get in the dump trucks, the vac trucks, they leave for the day. They come back at the end of the day. So nobody's there working on a regular basis as far as hourly. And it's gonna be really hard to maintain the amount of landscaping that the MDR has put in front of us. I like our plan that we presented. I have no problems throwing a few beds on each side of the entrance, but between all the critters. I just spent $30,000 last week on squirrels chewing up my wires in my 2026 dump truck. So, you know, I'm fighting the evilness of wilderness out there. So it's between the deer and the woodchucks. I can tell you whatever I spend and I can attest to this because I've got a little bit of a bee farm there. and i bought a bunch of flowers for the bees that are deer friendly and within three days half of them were gone so this is going to be an issue with this piece of property any kind of landscaping so i do have apple trees up at the office i started out with 30 i'm down to 10 and they're fenced off and they still get in so kind of dry season

it's yeah can't count on our nature for much anyway so i just i would appreciate it if you could review that and you know if we can lighten up the shrubs it would be greatly appreciated so i think what you've done along the front you know if we get some landscape beds at the entrance i understand your concern with not having public water and that's certainly an issue you may have to truck some in to keep these other beds going

Trust me, I'm over there eight days a week cleaning the place.

There's only seven.

I know.

Thoughts on landscaping?

Rain barrels. I don't know.

It's got to rain, though.

Well, it's not that. You've got to get it to the flowers. We've got them all across the front. It's, you know, you're creating. I guess I got 90 employees. I guess I can have 91 doing the watering.

So what we're saying is what you've shown plus beds on both sides of the entrance.

I appreciate that.

You all good with that? Awesome.

And then as far as the building, everything we're doing is going in the back. It won't be visible. We're just curious as to the need for doing all the architecture. Basically, we're going to match what's there now and just go backwards.

i can get your rendering for the next meeting i don't have an issue with that so the buildings uh built by essex steel out of courtland and they they can get me a rendering but it's basically mirror image of what's there it's a stone siding and green roof um do you guys want to talk before i do i'm doing all the talking

park and dump trucks in it that's what i do okay there's no repair or maintenance no that's up at the other place at 564. it's in the back on the side and it's facing the woods it's not it's not a street view but i did ask that the existing building base would be dressed up a bit the front of the building as far as what i mean what would you like to see done

the vehicles parking in front of there. There's a guardrail across the front of the building. So all the employees park there.

So... Because our design standards make it look better and come back with it. I don't want to design it. There's a guardrail there and there's grass growing up behind it. It doesn't meet our standards. And I'm sure that's going to be on the architectural review once it gets to the plans of the building. And that should be included.

Mark, can you pull it up? We're not touching the front of the building. You want it straight through?

Yes, sir.

Wow.

Straight through.

I guess I can put a mural on it. I mean, really, I don't know how you dress it up. It needs different colors.

So... Since it's existing, we can work with you a bit on it. But typically, it needs a base, a different material and color. It needs a crown and some glass. And when you look at what you have now, it doesn't come close to meeting our standards. standards because i'm our design centers because you're coming in in front of us on understood everything on that site is for us to look at now so i'm not saying both sides both sides of the building are open they're not i know that stores so i don't understand what the windows would do the windows are for an architectural standard appearance we want to look nice just the front of the building just from the middle break up this solid tan did create and show us something get rid of that grown grass Can't see, it's not that tall right now in the picture. If you drive out there, it's tall.

You're looking at the guy that takes care of it, so.

You need nine days.

I do. Okay. Well, we can do someone. Okay.

So spruce up the front, landscape that to drive.

Mark, did you want me to go over your comments? You want to? Why don't you go ahead?

Well, there's the paper and the details.

And that's being done next week. So that's on the calendar. OK, great.

And then I guess it's just we need to confirm that you're there for fire protection by the hydrant, please.

That'd have to work, yeah. I don't mind putting one in and then in water. Yeah.

Didn't they do some extension of water a couple years ago? Well, yes.

If it's 400 feet, it's going to be a big number. You're probably a little... I think you got it. It's right there. Yeah, you got that. But I think if you get to the back of the film...

It gets longer, Billy, now.

More than the 400 feet. I'm not sure that the other one really met it, but... I don't know if you want to approach the fire department with that, Steve.

Yeah. What's to the east there, Mark? I think it's down by the bridge.

Yeah. I think it's just this part. I think that was the closest hybrid. Yeah. Yeah, I had it at last.

It could be a conversation. All right. All right.

Yeah, I'm not sure where that is.

that's back away you can't see it with the grass it's just it's by the bridge but it's probably an equal distance yeah that's right by now it's this it's uh west of the bridge yeah so that's

Yeah, they're probably 800 or 900 feet apart or so. Yeah, we'll talk to the fire department. We'll look at it, and then we'll see. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

You had a note on there about the sanitary sewer, too, that they mentioned it, but there is none?

Well, actually, that's a mistake on my part. It should say indicate no modifications are made. Yeah, there's no sewer there. Yeah.

Okay. Elon, anything? All set. Steve? All set. Thank you.

Anything else from you folks at this point?

Okay.

All right. We'll see you soon. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Last item on the agenda, this is the applicant, the pretty simple modification to the Target store. And they had a long drive, so I told them they didn't have to be here. They did provide the updated materials and information. We did get a notice from Anthony Ross, our architectural engineer, that said everything looks fine to him. So are there any questions at this point?

So, I think, thank you.

Okay. Okay, you need to seek on this. Yeah, I'll make a motion for standard secret to have a second.

Second, Chuck.

Yes. Right. Yes. I vote yes on the secret. And you know, do you propose a motion for approval, please?

Actually, the option of resolution approving the application known as a real Martinez. 8061 virgin role proposed the sad wall signage improvements strictly continued on the following. Close congruence and or elevation as presented by the applicant to the planning board in regards to this application shall be incorporated by reference into the site plan and the board's approval thereof. Accordingly, the actual project must substantially conform to the agenda.

I'll make that in the form of a motion. Do we have a second? Second.

Chuck? Yes. Mary? Yes. I vote yes.

They are all set. That concludes our agenda items. Any discussion?

Everybody's gone home anyway. soon we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second