Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

I'm not sure how many have done that. There's a link from the town page that takes you to their YouTube page. Yeah, it's all because of this new legal farm that every meeting gets. Good to see that there. I usually go in there a couple times a week. Yeah, it's good. a good place. Well, I don't know for a good cause. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Barry, are you seeing good? Is that your footprint in the cement out there? Well, I I tried to find a nail before I left in there, but yeah. [Laughter]

Make sure Frank left his left. Tell you what, it started out nice and cold. It did. It did. It's pretty nice. Yeah, it's And then I saw the forecast for next week. Heat index is up towards 110. Yeah, next week's going to be miserable. Guy right here, huh? Yeah, next week's going to be miserable. Oh, yeah. We think it's miserable now. Yeah. Oh, I agree. But yeah, this this is going to seem cool. Hello. How are you? Good. Can you watch channel 13, buddy? Lindsay Monroe. Yeah. I got to meet her last week. You got to walk meet her. Oh, yeah. I know. I saw some pictures online.

Yeah. She's She's a chicken. She does a great job in the morning. She's just got married recently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you were Yeah, I saw I saw you guys a picture of you guys. Yeah. Nice nice lady. Nice young lady. She was I mean u she wasn't full of herself. I mean, she was very pleasant. Yeah. Right. And I can't say that about all of them. Yeah. But she was Well, you guys had something in common. You the weather. Yeah. Well, and so you had not ever met No. her before. We We have communicated.

Okay. Quite a bit on like twing and stuff about weather stuff and Sure. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Did you end up shimming up your flagable or what did you see result or didn't you? I saw your post on that. Yeah, I've got a guy coming Sunday who's going to use a ladder and climb up there. Okay. Yeah, I I'm not a lad. I don't do ladders anymore. I wasn't afraid of the ladder, but I didn't have one long enough. Yeah. Well, and I checked on renting one and it was going to be like 75 bucks a day. Yeah. Oh, wow.

And this guy's going to charge me a hundred. So, you know, it's much safer that way. Yes.

Yeah. It's not the fall that hurts, it's landing. Yeah. Hey, Frank. I got a lot of comments on that. People wanted to pay me to climb up it and then they were going to photograph me. This whole is gone like a nontop. Yeah. Yeah, I can't even

sir. Uhhuh. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. as far as I know on that one. Are they asking for two? Is it two different signs or two different options? No, two variances on one side. Yeah, two. Yeah,

it's it's Yeah, it's it's attached to the wall plus the size of the sign are the two challenges there in terms of it be a hanging sign. Yeah, it's a hanging sign and and there's an existing framework there. Correct. Yeah, but the the picture in the package shows the the one against the wall also a hanging sign against the wall. Yeah, cuz I was going to say it was not even mentioned in competitions. So they got the hanging signs and then they show it against the wall. Yeah. Yeah. I disregarded. I said, "Well, that's that's not in the petition." So I I didn't pay attention to it. Yeah.

Yeah. But that good question. Good question. Were you talking to me about that before? I thought you were talking, but I think we got the most questions about the one that we're not hearing tonight. Is that the same owner? Is it that didn't go with them? The last ruling that was made? It still has the same owner. So do we have to hear it again or is it or was it the business that it went?

So the use is carries on but the this is a development standard so this is for a different thing. Yeah. Okay. So it's a separate separate use stops with the use. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I got seven. That's good you put the terms on here, Frank. I mean just to refresh our which ones the terms for our offices here. Oh yeah, that's a new that's a new legal requirement. Is that a requirement? Okay. And a law went into effect Janu or July 1. Okay. You list who that's a state requirement then

for anyone who's appointed. It says who appointed them and when their terms. Okay. That's okay. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Sister of Jackson Township Board of Zoning Appeals. Uh date is July 17th, 2025. The time is 7:00 p.m. Uh we'll begin with a roll call of members. I'm Scott Bakauski. Mike Barry, present. Harrison Misani, present. Mark Thomas, present. Steve Zel, present. Aaron Culp, our legal council, present. And our planning director, Mr. Frank Zawatsky, present.

And thank you for recording tonight, Terry Strong. With the amount of members that we have present, I can declare that we have a quorum. Um, and we'll move right to the approval of the minutes from June 19th, 2025. Did everyone have a chance to look at those and any any adjustments we need to make to those tonight? Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel make a motion that we uh adopt these uh minutes as presented. Thank you, Mr. Zel. Mr. Chairman, that's Mike Barry. I second that motion. Thank you, Mr. Barry. All in favor of approval of the minutes from June 19th, 2025, please say I. I.

All opposed. Okay, those minutes are approved. Uh before we begin tonight, I just want to remind everybody that the BCA is a quasi judicial branch of the local government. The board will be discussing items listed on the docket and issues or stipulations to consider for each item on the docket. all of the comments and questions that should should be directed toward the board and its members as opposed to other members of the audience or the petitioner uh address us directly. The attendants must sign in if they're planning to speak this evening. Uh there's an attendance sheet at the at the front door there. Just put your name and address on there. Um each attendant must state their name and address for the record upon the visit to the podium. Uh the visits to the podium are limited to three minutes per person. Each item on the docket typically has a portion of the discussion set aside for public hearing for three minutes. Um if a person uh wishing to speak is in agreement with someone that's already spoken, it's not necessary to completely restate those points in their entirety. It's only necessary to agree with the other person's statement and move on in the interest of time. And I just want to remind everybody that all of our motions will be made in an affirmative, but that's not necessarily the way that we'll vote. Uh, first item on the docket tonight is BZA-0625-18-R3. Uh, the petitioner is Duwayne and Leanne Etches. The property address is 8:15 Morris Landing, Cicero Drive or Cis Morris Landing Drive in Cicero, Indiana 46034. Uh it's a development standards variance application has been submitted regarding the property um at 8:15 Morris Landing Drive to allow a fence to be 6 feet tall in the front yard. Whereas article 7.21

21 says that the fence and wall standards of the Jackson Township zoning ordinance states that fence shall not be greater than 3 ft in height in the front yard. There are two more items on the docket tonight that are for the same petitioner. We'll discuss them together, but we will devote we will vote on them separately tonight. So, I'm going to go ahead and read those two items into the record for us to discuss. The second item is docket number BZA-0625-19-R3. The same petitioner Duwayne and Leanne Etches at 8:15 Morris Landing. It's a development standards variance application has been submitted regarding the same that property located that's located at 8:15 Morris Landing to allow an accessory structure in the front of the primary structure. Whereas article 7.5 of the Cicero Jackson Township zoning ordinance states that an accessory structure shall be located to the rear or side of the primary structure. And the third item uh with the same petitioner is going to be BZA-0625-20-R3 at the same address 815 Morris Landing which is a development standards variance application that's been submitted regarding the property um concerning article 7.21 21 with the fence and wall standards of the Cicero Jackson Township ordinance to allow a fence in the front yard to have less than 50% open surface area whereas article 7.21 states that a fence in the front yard should have no less than 50% open surface area. Are is the petitioner present tonight? If you would just step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record and let us know what you've got planned. Uh we're Dwayne and Leanne Etcherson. Uh we would just like to uh build a pool in

the sidey yard and put a privacy fence around. I drove the property before we before we came today. Um it's on a corner lot, right? So that institutes all of this. So thank you for going through the due diligence. It's because you're on the corner that we need to go through this with you. Um, tell us about the fence. Is it Is it How tall is it set to be? Six feet. Yeah. 6 ft fence. Okay. And it's going to wrap around. It's going to show in both sides. That could be considered the front yard and the backyard at six feet tall.

And that's to give you privacy then front for the pool basically. Yeah. No plans for any uh any shrubbery or any anything like that around it?

Yeah, we can do whatever landscaping. We'd like to make it look nice. I mean, we the rest of the house we took good care of and um you know, done all the rest of the front of it, but we just decided if we wanted a pool, we'd like to be able to put it on the sidey yard there cuz we really don't have a backyard. Yeah, you've got a beautiful property and uh

thank you. Uh I you know I I uh appreciate the plans that you've gone through here as our chairman just said that because it really spells it out very well. Uh and I think it's very tastefully done. So thank you Steve. All right. Any any other questions from the board before we open to the public? Okay, folks. Thank you very much. uh entertain motions to open this these three items on the docket to the public. Mr. Chairman, Steve, I'll make a motion that we now open our meeting to the public on this specific petition. Mr. Chairman, Harrison Masani, I second that motion. All right. All in favor of opening to the public, please say I.

I. All opposed. Okay. This portion of the meeting is open to the public. Um, if you have something to address about any one of these first three items, please step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record. And Mr. Zwatsky, do you have anything to read in tonight? I do. I have a letter from uh, Mr. or Mrs. Mcuma. Oh, disregard. This is Christian FMS, co-owner at 820 Morse Landing Drive. We just stopped in town hall to talk about the variance and they suggest we email you to let you know that we do not oppose the pool project across the street. Best question. That's my letters.

All right. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, Harrison Msani. I move to close the public portion of this. Thank you, Mr. Msani. Do I have a second? Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel. I'll second that motion.

Thank you, Mr. Zel. All in favor of closing the public hearing for these three items on the docket tonight, please say I. I. All opposed. Okay. The public portion of the of the meeting is closed for these three items. Uh I just want to cover with the board. So we're looking at six feet tall and that's for safety reasons and privacy. Uh the second one is the corner lot provision here because it's it's going to it's considered the front yard. And then the third one is 50% open face area which normally goes with the front yard to to show off the property where we this is really almost not considered the front yard at this point.

And I would say Mr. Chairman uh uh to reinforce what you said on the on the on the first one there is that uh given and they have again nice very nice property but they don't have a lot of options on where they can put this. So, uh, this is this is the most, uh, I think most tasteful, uh, uh, way, uh, to to get a pool in and a fence around it. And we'll be talking about an accessory structure, I guess, as well. But, uh, that, uh, that's about the only place I can see. I'm familiar with the property cuz I live just down the street. So, uh, I I can see that uh, they didn't have a lot of choices to to put a pool, a nice pool like they're they're proposing in anywhere else on their property. Thank you, Mr. Zel.

Yeah, I would agree. And I think the place is already pretty nice looking. I think landscaping would help touch it up, but I don't know if it's worth stipulating. I think that they'd probably do that anyways. They do that on. Okay. Like I say, we will uh have to vote on these three separately. So, we'll have to um read them in separately. I don't have any suggestions on stipulations to apply to either of these three myself. Okay. So, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, Harrison, I move to approve document number BZA-0625-18-R3.

Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel. I'll make a motion to second that motion. Mr. Harrison. Thank you, Mr. Msani and Mr. Zel. Uh, we'll have a roll call vote. I'm Scott Bakoski. I approve. Mike Barry, I approve. Harrison Misani, approve. Mark Thomas, approve. Steve Zel, I approve. Okay, congratulations. First one's approved. I'll go to the second one. Mr. Chairman, Harrison Misani, I move to approve docket number BZA-625-19-R3. [Music] Thank you, Mr. Msani. Mr. Uh, Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel, I make a motion to second that. All right. Thank you, Mr. Zel. We'll have a roll call vote. Steve Zel, I approve.

Mark Thomas, approve. Harrison Misani, approve. Mike Barry, I approve. I'm Scott Bakoski. I approve. Congratulations. The second one is approved. I'll move right on to the third one. Uh, Mr. Chairman, Harrison Masani again. Um moving to approve docket number BZA- 0625-20-R3.

Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel. I'll make a motion to second that uh motion that was just uh presented. Thank you, gentlemen. I have a roll call vote. Mark Thomas, approve. Steve Zel, approve. I'm Scott Bowski. I approve. Mike Barry, I approve. Harrison Misani,

approve. Okay, congratulations, folks. Thank you. We'll move right on to the next item on the docket uh which is BZA-0725-22- AG which is Patrick and Patricia Lindley. The address is 20 22 2000 Kamak Road in Noblesville, Indiana 4602. A development standards variance request application has been submitted concerning article 3.2 2 AG a district standards of the Cicero Jackson Township zoning ordinance to allow a 15 foot sideyard setback where for a secondary structure whereas article 3.2 of the Cicero Jackson Township zoning ordinance states that a minimum sideyard setback shall be 35 ft for a secondary structure. Um is the petitioner present this evening?

Yes. If you would step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record and let us know what you've got planned.

I'm Patrick Lindley at 222000 Kamak Road, Noblesville, Indiana. Uh plan we built 5 years ago a call call it a hobby barn on this 10 acres and uh got eight grandchildren that run crazy on the property and uh I need a little more space to move my equipment out of my garage area. So the plan is to have Morton Buildings, they build our first structure, build a second structure which was just going to be basically an equipment shed. Photograph there depicts it. Well, the the building on the right um is the existing structure. So, I'm trying to utilize the current driveway, gravel area, so I can just pull this building right off of uh the existing infrastructure that's already there. Building is only going to be 20 ft wide, so it's not it's 20 by 34. It's not a big building, but it I would have to have this u setback moved back to 15 feet in order to make it work. So,

any questions from the board? For the petitioner? I was going to say is is uh you're not planning on, just for the record, you're not planning on running a business out of that? No, sir. Will I assume that you'll have electricity out there likely? Will there be water or anything like that? Nope. I've already met with Duke Energy. I've got a transformer that sits there and it's got 50 ft to extend power. It's going to be electric. Everything we have is electric. So, electric heat, lead. Yeah. fully insulated living quarters or anything like that? No. Okay. It's purely equipment. Okay. Any kind of exterior lighting that you're planning on having?

Yeah. So, there'll be similar if you go back to the current building, I've got gooseeneck lights over the overhead doors. You can see there. So, we'll have uh probably one or two over that uh same overhead door. And there is a small porch on it. Um, so like under the door here, I have a sensor light um, which actually turns those gooseenecks on if there's motion. Okay, there it is. But it'll be bare minimum. Yeah. Just want to confirm. I think Mr. Zel might have asked already, but there's there's no businesses planned to be run out of facility.

Okay. Anything else from the board? Pretty straightforward. All right, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. I'll entertain a motion to open to the public. Uh, Mr. Chairman, Harrison Misania, I move that we open this to the public. And, Mr. Chairman, I will second that great motion. Thank you, gentlemen. Um, all in favor of opening this portion of the meeting to the public, please say I. I. All opposed. All right. U, this portion of the meeting is open to the public for uh this variance. If you'd like to uh speak to this, please step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record. Mr. Zataski, did you have one to read in for this, too? I think I do not. Is there one in the packet?

Yeah. One packet. There's a support letter. I've got it here. It says, um, Mr. Zwadsky, my name is Jason Beasy. I live at the property just north of Mr. Lindley. Mr. Mr. Lenny invited me to his property to show me the location. He's proposing to build a barn. I want to let you know that I have no problem with the proposed location. The large landscape/tree buffer between the h my house and the location the barn will sit. This the buffer is approximately 30 ft by 40t tall with 30 to 40t tall with evergreen and decisionous trees. Therefore, I will not be able to see the structure. That's all we've got from the public.

Mr. Chairman, Harrison Sonia, I move that we close the public portion of this meeting. Thank you, Mr. Msani. Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel, I make a motion that second. Thank you, Mr. Zel. In favor of closing the public hearing, please say I. I.

All opposed? Okay. Public portion is closed. Um the next door neighbor is is is fine with it. Um there does seem to be a pretty good buffer just by looking at the the photo that Frank has up there. Um my my question was why couldn't it go on the other side of the house? Well, that wouldn't make sense for the driveway. Um, so there's wouldn't there wouldn't make so much sense to try to put it on the other side of the house where there's structure or where there's room and then in front of the house like it says in our documents would cause another variance to need to be applied for. So seems to make sense.

I think Mr. Chairman from an aesthetic standpoint that that location is proposed is ideal. Uh I think you know as you said you moved it out in front of the primary residence and u yeah you'd have to get another variance. Plus, it would it wouldn't look as attractive. Yeah. And it's not a giant. It's 20 by 30. It's not It's not over the height requirement or anything like that. Site's going to match up well with what what's there. So, Exactly. All right. I And I I I think we should include the stipulations of uh the business and the living quarters um to go with this. No business living. Right.

Right. Okay. Well, those are the conditions. I'm going to go ahead and make the motion. Um, Harris Mani, I move to approve docket number BZA-0725-22- AG with the following conditions. Um the petitioner indicated there would be no business ran out of the facility and um no living quarters within it. Thank you, Mr. Msani. Mr. Chairman Mark Thomas, I'll second that.

Thank you, Mr. Thomas. We'll have a roll call vote. Harrison Misani, approve. Mike Barry, I approve. I'm Scott Bakoski. I approve. Steve Zel, approve. Mark Thomas, I approve. All right. Congratulations. Thank you. I think one is approved. Yeah.

Move on to the last one for this evening after we we have one to table, but we'll move on to this next one. It's BZA- uh 0725-23-BC. The petitioner is Jimmy's Fitness Center. The address is 47 West Jackson Street, Cicero, Indiana 46034. It's a development standards variance application has been submitted regarding the property located at 47 West Jackson Street, Cicero, Indiana 46034 concerning article 10.8 downtown commercial sign standards of the Cicero Jackson Township zoning ordinance to allow a permanent electronic/animated sign. Whereas article 10.8 8 of the Cisco Jackson Township zoning ordinance lists an electronic/an animated sign um as prohibited. Is a petitioner present this evening?

All right, sir. If you wouldn't mind, step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record and let us know about what you've got planned.

Brian, Western uh the sign we got is um it's an old marquee sign. We've had it for I think 20 years. Uh with all the improvements that we've done to the building, it doesn't really match. And then, you know, we want to change the letters, we got to get a ladder out. Just kind of an annoyance and also could be a safety hazard if we're on the sidewalk versus if we put an electronic sign up. We can change it wirelessly with the keyboard. And you know, it's the same sign um that the town of Cicero has at both Redbridge and the Cisero Park from the exact same vendor, the exact same size, exact same model, exact same specs, GL approved, FCC approved.

All righty. What What's What are the dimensions on the sign? It's going to be 1 foot smaller uh than the current sign. Current sign's 8 foot x 4 foot. The new one will be 7'1 by 36 in. Okay. So, it will be a little smaller. Smaller. One foot each way. And we'll raise it up a foot just to make it so it's a little more clearance. And is it set to be as bright as the ones at the parks? That's adjustable. Okay. Can Can it be That's why I was going to say it could be turned down in case there's too many luminins there.

Questions from the board? Yeah, I have a couple. Um, will this be on 24/7? Yeah, in downtown I don't really see it be a problem. I mean, it's open. It's on display at the park and the both parks 24/7. Yeah. Um the signs at the park are in my opinion an old style where you've got the dots. The newer styles are like a TV screen.

Had you considered anything more modern? we have, but for what our purpose is, it's not really what we need. And then they're a lot more money. We just need something to fit the purpose, you know, and the new sign will look a lot better than the sign that's there. Sign that's there's worn out and looks old. Kind of actually degrades the building and the downtown in my opinion. Okay. Your existing sign, how often do you change it? Not very often because it is a pain. Yeah. How often will this sign change? Pardon? How often will this sign change? I have no idea.

I mean, are the are the plans to program it in? So, every 5 minutes, 10 minutes, it's going to come up with something new and then come back. The time that'll be kind of like the parks. I mean, it'll have a few rotating messages. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I had read in in here somewhere that it said it was a one minute minimum to try to reduce the safety aspect of it. So that it would it would flash an image and it would be it would be up for a minute one 60 seconds minimum. Is that something that I read? I am not for sure. That's not something I'm familiar with. Okay.

Oh, the staff recommendation. Yeah. Okay. Sorry for my confusion there. Mr. Chairman, I got a question as I was going to ask Frank in terms of our new comprehensive plan. Uh what how do electronic signs uh fit or not fit in in the downtown area? Is there is there any language in our new comprehensive plan that would uh guide us on this? If there is, I am not aware of it. Okay. Electronic signs are prohibited through zoning ordinance.

Yes. And I and I realized that I didn't know if uh since the comprehensive plan is is fairly new uh recently introduced uh if there was any emphasis at all on on signage specifically electronic LED or whatever signage in a downtown commercial area. I'm not aware of any Mr. Z. And and if I may ask a question of the commissioner is what you you talked about purpose. What is your purpose of the sign? I really I I'm familiar with your current sign and what what do you want to what do you want to put on the sign? Some of it we want to just put motivational tips. Okay.

Healthful information. I mean obviously some of it too is promotion. Okay. is is just from me. I mean, be being also a former business guy, is I I I wonder uh is that something you could do uh more effectively via social media? We we already use social media pretty extensively. We even have a sign in addition to this. Yeah. Well, you got a captive audience. I mean, a lot of times they're sitting there at the stoplight for 2, three minutes, right? that. Yeah. But it's also a very congested area. Uh can be. Yeah.

And so my my concern a little bit about this is the fact that it's it could be a distraction depending on what's on the on the sign, how often it's changed. Plus, you have a lot of foot traffic uh across the street going to the restaurants across from your your location. So, uh, you know, I I I concerned a little bit about the safety aspects or distraction that a sign like this might might cause. I mean, is it is it any more distracting than the one that's at the parks? Well, it's a different area. It's completely different area. If you look at that's that's just Yeah, it's in a more residential area. Yeah. Which to me which to me is a little bit more of a problem than it is in downtown where you got businesses.

We won't agree on that. Okay. But but but I I'm just saying that the the downtown area is the downtown area. I didn't know if our comprehensive plan would shed any light on this. Uh and and where the picture is that we're looking at right now, there's a lot of at times uh a lot of foot traffic and people reading the signs and they're and traffic is lined up and the light turns green and they they don't see it. I mean, I I don't know. I I can see I've just got some concerns, that's all. So, I just went through the comp plan and there's nothing I see that's specific other than calling for,

you know, standards that regulate and require attractive signage that doesn't go into anything beyond that. Pretty broad. Yeah, pretty broad. Okay, that's all. I have another question and and maybe you've already mentioned it and I missed it. the light intensity. How bright and can it and can that be changed? It can be adjusted. I don't know how bright it is. Okay. So, like during the day you would want it bright where it can be seen. Yeah. But at night Mhm. would it be possible to program it in to where it would dim down and still be visible but not super bright?

I know there's a brightness adjustment. How that mechanism works exactly, I do not know. I do not know if it can be timebased. I mean, if it can be time based, I would obviously do that because the reason I say that is when I'm driving down the street by the community park at night, sometimes that is super bright. I mean, it's bright enough that it's almost blinding. Yeah. Yeah. And if you know, back to what Mr. Zel was talking about, if at night you could dim that down, still be visible, but not blaring.

Well, I don't want to be offensive to anyone. So, obviously, if it's too bright, it it's going to make more people mad. That's going to help me. Yeah. So, if I can turn it down at night, if I I'll turn it down, but if I can turn down based on time, obviously I will. I would think there's probably some kind of a electronic control that would look at the lighting outside and be able to adjust that automatically, but yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, I agree. When I come over the bridge at night, I feel like I'm blinded by the sign at the park. Mhm. And I don't know if that went before the BCA, but I probably would have had my opinions on those signs if it did. Um, will there be any ads on this sign, you think? Pardon? Will there be any advertisements for other businesses besides your own? For other businesses or just

No, just for us. We aren't going to do that. No. And I'm certainly not an expert on signs, but um on the little bit of reading I did on LED signs from um AI online, they suggested like I think someone else said here um no static changes, which I don't know what that means, but I think it means high intensity changes between the two if you're changing between one screen to another screen. It's like a dim out and a dim back in, not just a change to change. There's there's things that you do on that sign to make the intensity less for cars on coming. Yeah.

Um, dimness. I think the time that something is on that screen so it's not flashing like a fireworks door is probably important. Um, static changes. And then intensity. I'm not a sign expert, but if um there's a giant blinking LED sign in my town, I'd probably be alarmed. So, and if it looked like the park and it was right there, I would be alarmed too, I guess, is what I'm getting at. cuz those are really bright just driving in the middle of nowhere personally. So,

well, I mean, if we can I mean, we we can turn it down so it's not so bright. And those are distracting, you know, but I mean it needs to be something that isn't too bright at night, but yet is bright enough to be seen in the daytime. So, and I I'm having I'm having trouble with this one because I drive through town a lot every day, just like probably all of us. And I just have a feeling that having this and nothing to you, you got a business to run, right? I like the sign you have there now. Personally, I think it fits with our old downtown. I get it's probably a pain to change. I would not want to do that, especially in this heat. Um, but I do think in my opinion, having an LED sign added to downtown message board, not just an LED sign, would be out of place. probably set the wrong standard for the other businesses in town, but I don't think that I don't think the idea of what we're looking for. Um, I'm not saying that you're trying to go the wrong path at all. I I like your sign. It's probably a pain in the butt, but I like the current sign that you have. Um, I don't know that the message board would fit with the old style downtown that we have. That's what I think. And I don't know if the brightness and all that stuff would change my opinion on that. um just with the age of the buildings and the other signs that are there. Um and if you compare it to other downtowns which were our own downtown um like I don't see these downtown. If they have them I probably wouldn't like them. So,

we've turned down many other signs before where people had requested. I don't do we have any any lit signs at all in downtown? Uh, we have plenty of lit signs. We do not have any other electronic signs such as Mr. Widows proposes though. And Mr. Zoski, if this were approved, it would still have to go through the planning commission aesthetic. It would review. It would I would assume so.

Anything else from the board? All right. Thank you, sir. Um can move on to the public portion. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we now open our meeting to the public on this specific petition. Thank you, Mr. Z. Mr. Chairman, I second that motion. Thank you, sir. All in favor of opening this portion of the meeting to the public, please say I. I.

I. All right. All opposed. The uh public portion of the meeting is open tonight. If you'd like to speak to this item on the docket, please step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record and let us know your thoughts. Hi, I'm Lean Etches. I'm here for a different reason because of the pool and I've heard all of the talk that's been going on this evening. I think the future of Cicero is an electronic sign in downtown. I mean, Cicero is changing. Uh, I appreciate what he's trying to do in keeping it modern in downtown. I don't think it's a distraction any more than a cell phone is in front of all these people that have them on their cars and vehicles. Um, I think that sign is dated and I would like to see a more updated sign in Cicero and I think electronic is the way to go. I think that's the future. So,

all right. Thank you for your time. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Anyone else from the public? If not, I can entertain a motion to close. Mr. Chairman, Steve Z. I'll make a motion we now close uh this portion of our meeting to the public. Thank you, Mr. Zel. Mr. Chairman, Mark Thomas. I'll second that. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. All in favor of closing the public me portion of the meeting tonight, please say I. I. Okay. Public hearing is closed for this item. Um, board member discussions.

Who manages the park signs? Is it the parks? Mr. Hunter, you know, if he's ever tried to turn them down. I don't know. I feel like this complaint's probably come up before and they may have been turned down if it's been heard. So, I don't I don't know the answer to that, but I mean, they're bright. I could certainly look into it. Yeah. because my my worry is you're coming up to a railroad to a you speed limit is 20 miles per hour, but it seems to be blaring in your eyes. So, um I've got a safety concern for sure. Um and I'm still trying to piece together the practical difficulty of this sign and why it can't just meet the standards that are in our ordinances today. So,

the uh image that's up on the screen right now, when I look at that, it reminds me of something from the 1950s, 1960. I'm older than you are, but that's what it looks like. And and you know, if you want a quaint atmosphere in the town, you know, that fits right now. But as the uh one person that spoke up from the public, you know, we are growing. We're becoming more modern whether we want to or not to u so if we had an electronic sign, if we approve that tonight, then the next business down the street's going to want one, too. Yes.

They don't want to be outdone. So, we may end up with a lot of them. But if we put the right stipulations on this so that any further ones that would come along, we could, you know, hold them to the standard. So you, you know, we're going to move forward and we're going to grow. But I think here's an opportunity for us to put limitations on what they're going to be.

And I understand what you're saying, Mr. Barry. My my concern as I said earlier is is not as much as an aesthetic and this is just my my opinion is is a distraction and and how that that area is very burdened with not only people traffic but car traffic and that is something else uh to take a person that's driving east on Jackson Street take their eyes off of off of what they're supposed to be looking at and looking at that sign And I I just I just think that we're we're adding uh that is a potential safety concern. That that's what in my mind is the overriding concern. Well, I just don't understand what the difficulty is here. Why the ordinance can't be met? It's just I I don't understand why the existing ordinance can't be met. It's because there's supposed to be a message board there. Is that the practical difficulty then?

There's just no electronic signs allowed. Yeah. Just period. No. No electronic sites are allowed in our ordinance. So I'm like you as I look at this petition and I look at in terms of the practical difficulty I didn't see one u you know it's not a hardship uh in my opinion. So you know not to beat this to death but I I'm just saying that again my input but

as we grow we're going to get additional foot traffic. And the other distraction going over the going over the railroad track there. I actually almost seen a couple kids on a bicycle get hit just right by the uh the funeral home just got stuff out of the way. People were looking at it. So I can see of this sign whether it be bright or or dimraction. So for me um one of the thoughts that I had was for and I don't want to I don't mean to take away from the business side of this because there's a reason that the sign is there to to attract business. Um, but the at the same time when I drive by the high school, which is in a different environment, it's out more in the country. I'm glad that sign is gone. I don't know if they put it back yet or not, but it absolutely blinds you when you try to drive down 19 there. Um, same thing in the early morning hours at the at the community park. Um, that thing is absolutely too bright. I don't have much of an issue for some reason with the one that's at Red Bridge. it doesn't it doesn't have that effect to me. I guess maybe I'm driving by there at a different time uh for some reason. But um one one thing that I would ask the petitioner to consider is to just allow the the luminance the brightness of it to be adjusted during the day. uh so that it doesn't doesn't make you think that there's a police officer there pulling somebody

over, you know, with the flashing lights or something like that and then consider completely shutting it off from dust till dawn and just not having you know I know that that's that's going to re that's going to be infringing on the business itself um for the need of a sign. I I get that, but uh that's something that's one thing that I thought of uh possibly putting in as a as a uh condition, but um you know, that might defeat the per purpose of the sign all the way. So that's just my thoughts. I would remind the board members uh that u why is the ordinance the way it is? you know, yes, we're here to to grant or not grant variances, but if I recall, because I've been on uh both the planning commission and the BCA for a number of years, uh no longer on the planning commission, but the BCA, I I can remember when that we first talked about that uh electronic signs and some of the challenges and concerns and in my mind that has not changed and there was a safety component to that. And uh so that's the reason why uh whoever wrote the ordinance in the beginning uh that it was drafted the way it was drafted and and I uh I don't even though our times are changing and things like that but some things don't change in terms of concerns or issues uh even though we we are a town and hopefully we you know we modernizing and those kind of things but um I just remind that that's a pretty hard and firm ordinance and there was there's good reason behind it

and I think that the um absence of a ordinance doesn't create a practical difficulty just my opinion I think that it's um so I think there's ways to get a message out outside of a animated electronic sign so In the past, we have set I'm sorry, Mike. We have set stipulations where the plan director approves the brightness level of a sign after the sign's in place. I think that's a condition that we would need to have on this tonight um in order to consider approving it. if it and this the situation that that's happened with before is um a sign not being overly more bright in and in the strip mall situation at Port Cicero, a new sign went up and we had to make sure that it wasn't brighter than the rest of the signs blinding anyone. If it was it was adjustable and could be turned, excuse me, can be turned down. So, uh, that's that's where I would like to go with this on as a condition that it could be adjusted to to be less bright if that's what's needed as because of safety in this case.

Yeah. Not only aesthetics, but safety. I have a couple more thoughts on this. Um, is the sign currently lit? Have you thought about putting a light on it and leaving it alone? That's not something I've thought about.

Yeah. Um and and I don't want to make you feel bad, but I don't pay any attention to your sign when I go downtown. I mean, it just it's there and and I I don't look at it. So the question would be is if it's an electronic sign and it's changing, you know, will that get my attention? I can't answer that. But question that I would ask the board members uh is right next to you there's a dentist and he has a neon sign in his window. And how is a neon sign in a window different than this sign other than potentially the location? If you drive downtown Noblesville, there are all kinds of neon signs out u on the corners and stuff like that. So, you know, what's again, I understand your concern, Mr. Yeah. And and safety is is utmost important,

but you know, how's it different than neon signs and windows other than the location? And that that may be the the big difference. Maybe if that that sign was somewhere else. Yeah. You know, as an LED, you know, projected image, uh then that a lot of people probably just simply wouldn't see it.

Yeah. Uh I I think the location uh in my mind even though it's that's a great location for signage and that sort of thing is is uh is one of the weaknesses in my mind of trying to trying to think through this from an approval standpoint. Let let me ask this question. If that sign were inside the building facing Jackson Street, would that be okay? I can be a completely different viewpoint. You got a sign up here. Driving down the road, it's going to be your

right. Yeah. Ericas wouldn't need any lights inside their building anymore. Well, to me, there's different types. You see a lot of box lit signs, which would be like that with lights inside of it. You see a lot of backlit signs that shine the light backwards and create a shadow, right? But these are LED cells facing directly out to create an animation. I think that's part of the intensity issue, right? That's why I was kind of asking about the more modern signs or like an LED TV type thing.

I think again to answer your question, Mr. Various is if that were placed somewhere else that that's that we have a new discussion perhaps. All right. But back again, it's not lit now at night, right? So the question would be is why isn't it lit now at night? Yeah. And and now we're going to change it to where it's lit 24/7.

So to your points is uh you know turn the site the sign all the way down. We know that the That's that's by the by the park. Is it is it actually turned all the way down? And how bright is turned all the way down will be, right? Yeah, that's why I think that that should be one of the one of the uh stipul the conditions is to be able to adjust it. Okay. Well, let me ask a question on that.

Yes, sir. I'm sorry. Um, let's say we approve that and it is put up and it turns out that the park signs are all the way down and they're still extremely bright. Then what do we do? Do we tell him no, you got to tear it down or what? How how does that work? I would recommend to his benefit that if that's the case, then we would table it. He do research, we do research with Mr. hunter and then I guess give him the opportunity to come back and save him a resubmission or I mean I think it'd be I don't know if there's a rush on getting the sign up or is that possible?

Well, we could table it certainly if we wanted additional information. I'm you know I just want to make sure that is there something he could tell you that's going to change your it my it feels to me like the discussion a certain way. Is there an answer he can provide you that's going to make you say change how you're currently thinking? Because if not, you're making him wait a month and do some leg work. Good point. And so, yeah, I mean, only you guys know if that's going to impact you.

I think if I understood the minimum brightness of the signs at the parks, it would really help me. But, I mean, I think you're right. think where I am right now, my vote tonight would probably not be favorable, but I also don't know what the the lowest setting on this is. So, well, and that's one of the the issue because we don't allow this kind of sign, right? We don't have standards. Normally, we'd have standards that guide you

and you know, something like this, we would have a brightness or something, but we don't. And so, you don't have anything you can reference back to. It can't because the ordinance is old and it it's uh it needs serious updating or rewriting or whatever to take in the the newer technology. I've never if I'm looking for Jim and Cicero already know where I'm going. Good point. Um, so that that's going to take me back to conditions um for approval. Um, Mr. Vasani stated and got confirmation from the petitioner, but I like it to be in the condition that there's no other ads for other businesses other than Jimmy's. And the petitioner said that that's was the intention and the uh ability to um adjust the luminance or the brightness of the the sign to to match safety concerns. And

well, when you say it say that, are are we talking about dimming it down at night and allowing it brighter in the day or what? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, to be able to adjust it to where you can read it without being a safety concern in the in the evening hours, night nighttime hours. And would you want to designate um the plan director to be the the one who works with the property on schedule? Yeah.

Right. Mr. Culp, would it be allowed for me to I just texted with Superintendent Hunter about the sign. Is that appropriate to bring up in this meeting?

Yeah. I mean, what did you ask him and what did he say? I asked him, "Is the electronic sign at the park adjustable and is it turned down now?" And then I said that we have an electronic sign petition on the BZA tonight. He says he doesn't know. He's never had any complaints. He said he'd like to upgrade his. That's my messages. Should I email that to him or you? I'm sorry.

Should I email the complaint to him or you? I'm just kidding. I complain to my wife about it all the time. All right. Are we are we do we have the conditions that we need to uh hear a motion? Anyone have anything further?

Good. Good. Okay. Um, Harrison Misani. Um, move to approve docket number BZA-0725-23- DC with the following conditions. um an agreement with the petitioner. There will be no ads for other businesses on this animated electronic sign and the brightness will be adjusted um at dusk to be dim and brighter during the day after dawn. Thank you, Mr. Msan. Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel, second that motion.

Thank you, Mr. Zel. We'll have a roll call vote. Mike Barry, I approve. I'm Scott Vicoski. I vote no. Steve Zel, no. Mark Thomas, no. Harrison Misani? Nope. All right. So, that motion did not get approved. Um, Mr. Zodatsky, how soon, just to clarify, how soon can the petitioner come back with another proposal? If he comes back with a proposal exactly like this one or very similar, he has to wait one year. Okay.

All right. Thank you, sir. Um, the next two items on the docket, um, I'll read them. Uh, I'll read the numbers and then we'll discuss docket number BZA-0725-24-N which is the furniture garage at the address of 49 East Jackson Street, Cicero, Indiana 46034 and docket number BZA-0725-25 N-N with the uh same business or same petitioner, the furniture garage, same uh address, 49 East, Jackson Street, and Cicero, Indiana 46034. Um, we're going to table those two items tonight, Frank.

Correct. Until the next meeting. Okay. Um, can't remember if that's a roll call or a uh just Okay. But it can be, right? Okay. Mr. Chairman, Harrison Misani, I move to table docket numbers. Can I do them together? Yes. BZA-0725-24NC as well as BZA-725-25-N.

Thank you, Mr. Msani. Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel, I'll second that motion. Thank you, Mr. Zel. In favor of uh tableabling these two items until our next meeting, please say I. I. All opposed? Okay, those two are tabled until our next meeting on August 21st, 2025. And that'll be at 700 p.m. here at town hall. Okay, thank you. 7 p.m. right here, town hall. Our next item is the plan director's report.

Good evening, BZA. I have here in front of me the latest version of the director's report. This is for the month of June 2025. Permanent revenue for the month of June 2025 was $5,470. Brings us up to a year to date of $23,376. At the same time last year, June of 2024, we were at $10,496 for the month and $25,57 for the year. That is a difference for the month of June, a minus $5,026 and a minus for the year of $1,681. We issued a total of 19 building permits for June of 2025. 13 of those were inside the corporate limits, no new homes. We issued another six out in Jackson Township, one new home there. Estimated cost of these projects permitted was $1,15,955. That's my report. Well done.

Thank you, sir. Uh, chairman's report. Um, two things for me tonight. Um, I would like to request Mr. Awazki that going forward that the petitioner during the process of of filing [Music] fills out and I may be out of line here so I'm asking not I'm requesting I guess maybe and I might be out of line but I would I would ask that they fill this out just as we fill this out with their versions of each of these points. points on here. I think that would make it easier for me when I'm reviewing these things. Um because they don't put in typically typically now, not all of them, but they don't put in the effort to state their case to me before before the meeting.

When they get here, it's a different story,

but I think I would like to be more informed with them actually filling this out. Um and and and and some of these that were in here tonight have, you know, there's just a a blank page basically with uh lines on it for them to fill out what they're proposing. But having these these addressed specifically will help me uh in my determinations or my considerations, I should say, not determinations. I don't determine anything until I get here and hear the cases, but my considerations uh before the meeting. I would that that would be my request and I don't know if that's something that's possible.

Mr. Cult, was there is that an in-house? Yeah. Yeah, we could just add a page there that says explain how you meet each each of those. And so it would be tweaked a little from saying that that's the finding that explain how you meet this finding effect. I I just to clarify, it would be changing this page to state those three to five stipulations that we're considering and have them actually handr write or type whatever they like to do um on this page for the board to to review before the meeting.

And I think to to add to hitchhike on what you just said is that that I think is a good idea number one. Number two, I think that you're you're helping educate the petitioner on what the board has to go through in terms of findings of fact, the decision criteria uh uh for their petition. So, it it it might be uh something that would be more even more beneficial to the petitioner. Now, it would also be beneficial to us because it would help us prepare better. But uh yeah, I like that idea. That would definitely be a side effect, Mr. Zel. the petitioner may get to to fill that out and understand that all of a sudden they don't have a leg to stand on possibly. Yeah.

Or they would at least have I feel like a better understanding of what's going to happen to them when they get here. Um what what we're what's going to go through the board's mind when they're making decisions. We do counsel them on the process. Excuse me. Uh, and I bring out those findings of fact and go through them and explain your decision-making process. I do that to every petitioner. But if that's what you want, that's that's what we can do.

All right. I I think that would be great. I I really appreciate that consideration. And then the second thing that I want to ask um maybe maybe this question directed toward Mr. Culp. When we are stating the Yes.

Yeah. When when we are stating the motion to approve, are we being thorough enough in stating that motion? And what I what I mean to say specifically is do we need to reread the entire um docket with all of the pieces to it or is it only necessary to state the docket number and and or how much do we need to be talking about on there when we generally it's sufficient to state the docket number. Okay. By stating the docket number you're identifying the petition and what it's asking for.

Okay. A and we've got a legal description that defines it. So you're that ties you into everything. Okay. Okay. Great. That's Thank you for that clarification. Yep. All right. That's all for me. Uh legal council's report. Um just wanted to share the the town has entered into a agreement to acquire three test or three well sites east of town. Um there is one final phase of testing that has to happen after the town assumes ownership. Okay. Uh but that process is underway. Um you answered one of the questions.

I I I anticipated that might be kind. You thought so. And the other thing I wanted to go back to in the last discussion with Jimmy, you know, I don't think it's ever wrong if we want to send a petitioner to go find more information or give us answers. I I just I don't like to do it if if I don't think that he can give an answer that's going to change the outcome. And my gut was based on what was being said there was it didn't sound like him dimming it and that was going to get over the hurdle of concerns people were raising, you know, but obviously, you know, maybe that was enough for you. So that's why I gave you that response there. No, I I just don't want him to wait a month,

right, and get the same result. Yeah. and put more time and energy into it, too. Time, you know. Good point. Good point. Anything else, Mr. Cole? No, that's all. All right. Thank you for that. Uh, board member comments. I have a couple. Red Bridge Beastro over here. Getting hungry? No. I looked through all the meeting minutes before this meeting, but I couldn't couldn't find what I needed. Um, I am pretty certain that we discussed there being shrubbery behind the red conx that is sitting there, but it is seated and erosion control blanketed like they're done. Just so you know,

they're not done. Okay. Cuz they've got all the other landscaping in, trees planted. So, they the inside is done and they're awaiting uh one more approval from another body. Uh they Oh, they also can't get tables and chairs right now. So, they do not have a CFO to Okay. But I will make note of that.

Okay. I just didn't want to forget. I mean, I still think it looks like a giant red box, but I mean, it doesn't look awful end of the day. And then the furniture place. I was going to bring it up tonight when they were here, but during that variance, the last time it happened, someone had brought up parking in front of there because it impedes the sidewalk. And they noted they would not park in front of the building. However, in the image, they're marked there and they are very they're very often. I don't know if it how impeding it is to people. I just want to make sure that they're not technically following what they said they would. So, I don't know if it needs to come up. I just don't want them to get loosey goosey on us. Yeah, there's the picture.

I believe the condition was we don't block ADA access, which if they have five feet, they do have the ADA accessibility, which looks to me like they have it there, but uh if that was misinterpreted, I can look at it again. I'm fine. If they have not been any trouble on anything else, I think that makes sense. But are they so they're planning to operate it looks like more of a business here than just moving furniture in and out then? They do. They want to do the exact same use that was there before and add more uh furniture sales. Okay. So, more question. That's cool.

I think that's it. I noted your complaint with Mr. Hunter. Mr. If I could go back and I had a question for for uh our attorney here is in terms of the uh since I don't serve on the plan commission. What what's the status of the ESBridge Espridge? Originally Frank could answer that any. Yeah. Originally it was going to be heard this week. However, because Mr. Loots has changed jobs and so because he's now traveling more, he decided he couldn't be on the council. Okay. And the new member, Jacob Everett was diselected Monday night.

Yeah. And so they decided to move the decision until the second meeting meeting in August. Okay. So that they he had time to get up to speed. Okay. Cuz there's so much for him to review. They didn't want him to have to to do that quickly. Makes sense. Okay. Thank you. So, but the plan is to have a final vote the second. So it'll be the third Tuesday of August. Okay. at that meeting. That's for the town council. Yeah. I mean, it's it's in their in their wat.

Well, and he will be getting in and all the council members a complete copy that shows all the m meeting minutes and every letter that was submitted. So, they'll have everything to review. Now, three of the four council members attended the entirety of all the hearings. Two as members and one as a spectator. Okay. And then the fourth member who was on the council at the time, uh, he attended the first meeting, okay, and part of the second one, then he had to leave. And so the only one who wasn't, well, I can't say that. Maybe Jacob was there as a member of the public. I don't know. Okay. Thank you.

Any more board member comments? All right. Our next plan board of zoning appeals meeting is scheduled for August 21st, 2025 and I can entertain a motion to adjurnn. Mr. Chairman, Steve Zel make a motion that we now adjourn from our monthly BZA meeting. Thank you, Mr. Zel. Thank you, Mr. Barry. All in favor of adjournment, please say I. I. All opposed. All right, we need to shut off the broadcast. Turn off your mics, please. Yes, I did.