Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Certainly Joe, Jacob Ever, Dennis Johnson presil nothing on the body. Yeah, I do. I didn't want to. I just want to talk about it. So, fair fire territory. Um, are we at a point to just so we can move forward some way and have a public meeting between Jackson Township and Cicero?

I'm fine with that. I honest I would be more in favor of a fire district, too. I don't have a problem having a meeting. I feel like I've been involved in a couple discussions and I don't know. I just feel like I still I probably have more questions than answers, I guess. So, but that's what having a conversation would do. So, be sure to answer more questions. Great. And I I think at this point it's worthwhile if we're going to do it. If we're going to not for fire territory but have additional discussions just make it a public meeting.

Yeah, make it a public meeting. We can make a determination of what we want to pursue. If we want to keep down this path, we can make that determination in public. If not, we can go a different direction. Dennis, I agree. Okay. So, I will I will get with Robin and see what we can do. You guys good meeting outside of in the evening sometime outside of our typical As long as I'm in town by next month. Thank you. All right. All good on town council. All right. Moving along the plan.

Taking it easy on me. Well, that's something. Um, so just an update. We've been working with ISO Tuesday. I went to an 8 hour ISO class with our actual rep who's doing our case. Um, he's actually I I sent him the last of the information I think we need to get this wrapped up, but he is on vacation

or he listed it as vacation. I think he's actually touring around teaching this class all over Indiana right now. So, I should hear something back in the next couple weeks, but my goal is to have a um when we do our uh retrieve meeting, I guess before the next staff meeting. Um I should have all that information, be able to present the full um kind of where we are in this process and hopefully we have a good answer to wrap this up and be done with it. So, I should have that by then. Um, and uh, we have got six new uh, PRN since we've changed the uh, pay rate and four of those six are already working. So, we're already seeing a boost of the PRN. So, that's Thank you guys. That's been a big help and it's actually paid off quickly. Good. And my understanding is ISIL is very happy

where we're heading. Yes. Correct. Yeah. So, I think we're pretty close to putting into that hopefully be done with it. Well, thank you for your work on that. Absolutely. Very much appreciate it. Anything else? Appreciate you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chief. Right now, I didn't have anything on agenda, but I got something to update you as well. What? It's a good update, right? Come on. Like I said, I got something to update you on. So, back in December, one of our um guys ran over a cinder block that a guy had put in a easement or I think put in an easement. Anyway, uh came out. Initially, it was $3,000 worth of damage. Come to find out cars total. So

can you explain the situation so everybody that's not good news chief? No it's not good news but in all fairness this one is not necessarily the police of the fault of the officer. So they need the whole So over by the police department a gentleman that lives next in next to the alley put cinder block from people from turning into his yard. And our officer was make he was going south in the alley, tried to turn west right there around the post office and hit one of the cinder blocks fulls size one and it sucked it up into the wheel well

and when it did it just kind of shoved the fender and the door and jacked that all up and that's what we thought the problem was until they got it out to Talon Auto Body and tore the the like the weather stuff out of the inside and it actually damaged the structure to help in crashes. So now they got to pull the engine, pull those off, weld them back on there. So it came out to about $17,000 worth of damage. So we're dealing with the insurance company right now and try to get that settled. So have we made taken any steps to understand? I'm assuming that's an easement where that stuff was sitting where the center blocks are sitting.

I I think so. However, uh after consulting with Aaron, um he said since our insurance company's going to pay off, that would be the insurance job to go after that homeowner if they think it's they need to do so. We have to keep in mind this was our new officer who's using the streets of Arcadia not a different actually it's the one that came from Milwood. Oh Lwood even worse Louis from Arcadia wheels the one that came from Yeah. I mean it was rolling probably 3 4 miles an hour when he made the turn and it I don't know how that block just went up in there.

It's actually fairly impressive sucked it up like So, our insurance would determine that they think there's a reason to pursue the homeowner's insurance. Yeah. According to Mr. Culp. Yes. So, we're covered. Yes. So, now we're just dealing with like I had to get some quotes on to replace the car and and equipment so on. I emailed that to him earlier this week. I haven't heard back yet. What's our deductible? Thousand bucks. Yeah. And it should be returned to us if they subregate against the homeowner and they find out that they're fall. Correct. Thank you. So, you're making do though with now that you're down a car?

Yeah. Yeah. We had uh couple spare cars we're hanging on to that I'll talk to you about at the next meeting about new officers and such, but yeah, I think we're right. We thought we were ahead of the game and now we're just kind of right back where we were at. Yeah, we're surviving. We'll work through it. Questions? Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Moving along. Water wastewater. Only thing I have is do you want to try to set a date uh for that uh executive session? Did you and you seen Erin's emails back and forth?

Yes, sir. We did. So, the challenge right now with that is all the retreats. I don't want to hear it. I don't want Hey, this is an Eric initiative. Eric is just so you know, never again. Never. We've done it this way before. I think we tried, but we still ended up in a Saturday session. Um, if we can make it work, let's make it work. to this point. I'd be per I'm going to speak personally. I'd be fine coming in on Saturday morning. Doesn't matter to me. I don't want I don't want to make that decision for everybody else.

If we do an exact session the next council and through March were filled up with an hour prior with retreats. So, we'd have to do how much time you think an hour, 40 minutes, 30. I'd say at least a probably already punch in two hours because we're going to be giving a a lot of information. Yeah, we're giving a lot of information. We have to do that because we got a lot of information and uh a lot of things for you guys to chew on. I I'm available not this Saturday. I got a date. It's Valentine's Day. 21st is the 21st. I'm not available.

I'm not either on the 21st. I'm not available the following. Why don't we do like the 24th? So that's a Tuesday. So council next Tuesday, then the following Tuesday. Why don't we do the evening of the I don't believe I'm here. No. When are you here? I told you. Hold on a second. Mean a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night. What is it? 24th is a Tuesday and we don't have a council. That's the week after. I actually I I can make that work. I have to be on early flight the next morning. I can make that I'm gone but you guys can do that. No, you need to do that. So this we're getting ugly here, man. And I know this is time,

right? So next week, what about the 19th? That's a Thursday. I'm going so So you guys look at your calendars and when when are you available during the week? I be I'm going the 18th to the 20th, the 25th to the 4th, but I'm actually going the 17th because I have to stay until the night before I fly out. March 5th, anybody? What about the Monday the 23rd? I'm just trying to think because my schedule's kind of similar to his Monday.

Oh, we have we have to red Unless that's at 6:00, right?

I mean, we could do it after that, right? Oh, it won't be over till probably 8. What about

that's when I'm here? I'm not here then. March 3rd. Is that actually March 2nd? Am I saying that wrong? No, you're right. I don't get back until the 4th. What about the 5th? Fifth. Good. What day is that? Thursday. Thursday the 5th. Thursday the 5th. Work for everybody. So, are you guys here the 21st? That's a Saturday. 21st. No, not you're not here. I don't know. Somebody said they weren't available on the 21st.

Who said they weren't available? I said I wasn't, but I think I can probably I'm not available. How about we do this? I can make it work. 21st or March 5th? I can't on the 21st. You can't. March 5th, everybody? Too long, Terry? Is that too far? No, no, no. That's And if you know, I mean, if you need to stretch it out a little bit. I just was wanting to make sure we stay, you know, on the radar. I actually have a window between the 5th and the 16th that I can work with. Let's try March 5th. That work for everybody. What time we do? 6. I'm going with six. Six session.

March 5th. That's six o' here. And I'll immediately get with Keith and make sure that Okay. That way we can't do it that night. probably be July 4th. March 5th, 6 o'clock town hall. 6 o'clock. March 5th at 6 o'

something to keep in mind with with some of the information that Erin sent out about remote attendance to meetings. Is this you can potentially do via Teams call or something. I think so. Um, but you can as long as we adopt that on Tuesday, you have to adopt it. You have to also you can't you have to do at least 50% live meetings. And I don't think the person who's awake can vote. Yeah. If we're not Well, we're not voting. No, there's no information. But if you have to have 50% live, then there's no point. So, let's just roll it. Yeah, you're right.

But going back to it, does anybody have a problem with the fifth before we if we're good with the fifth? Terry's already sat down because he doesn't he doesn't want us to change the date again. No, we're we're going to Let's roll with the fifth. Yeah, absolutely. It's something that needs to be done. All right. You all good on water? Are you sure you don't have another meeting schedule? I have things. I'll be here. I will be here. Run it.

And I'll be at conference March 8th through 8 through the 12th. That's it. I'm not joking. I don't think I can make the I could call in. I mean, I'll be at my house, but my wife's having surgery on the know she needs somebody there with her. Again, if there was a date where I'm not going to be here, I don't have a problem missing or trying to join virtually

session still happening. You'll tune in or we not having it. I I mean, if if we can adopt that on Tuesday and there's only one of us gone, I have I personally have no issue with We're not voting. And you can't vote. Yeah, it's that's fine. Let's do that. I should get a call from Okay. And now that we have this system, it makes it a lot easier. It's not like we're working off one computer. So, I'm good with that. All right. So, we're still back on. But if you decide to change your mind, you're welcome to break.

Project coordinator, Mr. Strong. So, while I'm thinking of it, I need to ask for a couple of exec sessions. Just just joking.

I thought I'd add a little humor tonight. I know that's unusual for me. So, so I I did have a couple of things this evening. One of those being the uh Byron Street outdoor seating area that I had sent out to the council to review previous tonight. That would be for the sidewalk encroachment. So basically it would put a permitting process that would go through the planning department since basically it's a rideway and it would tie into the other wideway permits that that department issues. So I guess the questions if everyone had a chance to review it and if you thought it was adequate and it was okay. The other piece of it was is looking at it that it would be a yearly process and part of thinking through the yearly process would be if they weren't fulfilling the commitments that they had had made then we would have the opportunity to address those and then also potentially not issue them permit for the next year.

And I I shared my feelings in the mail given that fee. I I think for free use of talent space $100 That's my thought. So, other council member thoughts on the yearly fee. I mean, that is uh you know, other communities do charge that, but I didn't know if the council would feel that was too much or what those thoughts were. So, I mean, keep in mind there are upkeep costs. We've already seen where we've had to place the railing. There's going to be costs that we're absorbing, but you.

Well, it's a good point. We had to re uh repair the railing over by uh Red Street or Red Bridge too at one point. So, I think it's totally in line to charge a fee. I think the question is do we charge 50 or 100? 100 is what other communities are doing and I think that's minimal for what they're the benefit that's being and obviously that that $100 is only if that business is utilizing it.

Yes, that is true. So, in the particular case, the one over by uh what would it be? Nolan James, they may not be utilizing that. So, of course, there would not be a fee with that. And I can't see Red Beastro utilizing either with their outdoor space that's already there. No, they wanted to put in a bench for the customer. Is that considered seating have to put it under. No, no, just a bench to for waiting. It doesn't have a table you set your drink on. You're just waiting. I was just asking the question.

It's not constant use. I my the spirit of what I was thinking was related to actual everyday use. I would question would we even allow a private bench on a public sidewalk? We're allowing private tables. No, that's what I'm saying. I think there's a difference there. versus like if it's a bench. We have benches on our sidewalks, but those are hard, right? Well, we actually Erica's has one down by her, I believe. I know we moved it for the sidewalk construction. So, there may be a couple that are not the town's menes. So,

I don't have a problem with the bench being out there with no charge, but my personal feeling is if you're putting out there and it's a revenue generating item for you, invest maybe some smaller fee to give you the ability to say no but we really keep breaking the rules we have the ability to go and say I think you're done Sure.

I knew that was probably going to be a tough discussion. That's why I part of my thought process is though exclusively for their business. Do they have that right or can somebody from West take down and sit in that seating area outside of Broncos that Broncos is utilizing? If that's the case, I think there should be a space.

I'm not saying I'm talking about for example, wants the exclusive right to use that area that they're seating. I don't see why there's an issue. I am in the coffee shops in the morning. But under that understanding, Broncos would not have the right to say you can't sit here. Broncos wants the right to be able to say only Bronco patient can sit here. I don't see a problem. If it's going to be general use, I don't have a problem. Well, that would be I think I think it's

to say they're going to pick up your trash and maybecome Bronco responsibility.

Well, I think the intent of the ordinance was that it would be exclusive to the adjacent property owner to that business. So, I think that was the intent of the original ordinance was or drafting this was that it would be Broncos, it would be Dark Side Roers, potentially uh Red Red Bridge Bristo or whoever might be on the other corner. And that's certainly not to say that if they would want to have other people to set there, they certainly could, but I think that was the intent when we went down this path. So, The space is ours, but furniture is so

and they are liable for that if you know if they're serving alcohol or whatever that they have to meet those standards as well with the alcoholic beverage commission. So which is spelled out in here as well. So So you want to know invested forune? I don't $400. We have the ability to say no rules. It gives them the best interest.

I think the only reason that I you know threw out the fee for potential discussion was in regards that it does take time through the planning department and you know potentially a minimal charge to cover the cost there or something. It wasn't driven as a revenue generator by any means as you know. No, it's not the intent not to be avenue. No, however. Yes. And it would be specifically for the opportunity to sit outside. So, I'm not

I would say no charge. I like it, but I do have one question. I went to look when I came in. Do they have their seats? Does the coffee have their seats out? You said all that has to be put away. I'm afraid that it's going to be difficult for those two or three months. We certainly can look at that and just if it's an issue, but I know they moved it during construction and stuff and had a place to take it. So, I don't know the answer to that and I know they brought it back. So, so we're going to have February day.

I don't know. or we could put this in the wall. Correct.

So the intent there from my understanding, what I've read in other communities was so that they could keep the sidewalks, the snow off and stuff in the winter, then she weren't trying to shovel around tables and chairs and and trash cans and things like that. So that was part of the reason of being removed over the winter months. I was ask you about because they already be charged to do that now and they say I don't want to pay that

I don't know that you know we would be able to allow that with putting this in place unless the board unless we unless we modify it somehow. I mean, we'd want to be consistent what we were doing with everyone. So,

were able to do it. Yes.

According to the condition, you mind doing a quick. That's a good That's a good question. I walked I walked by there the day twice and I couldn't tell you. That's sad, isn't it? I just think the sidewalk the entire sidewalk is public. So to your I think we can't I don't think we can just parse like hey this was okay and now it's we have to have rules for the public sidewalk and be apply to everybody. Thank you.

Whe the place at the time or use I think so in my opinion.

So in that particular case they would be exempt from anything in this ordinance if it's legal non-conforming. Not anything though. You're just saying if they put exactly what they had before, not more tables. Well, they have to put the right. So, and Bronco,

and as you said, Broncos basically has a similar situation. They went through the process for their outdoor seating also. So, and that's sort of what prompted this conversation knowing that they were going to want to serve alcohol out there and making sure that they had the AD accessibility and some of those things. to your point, not to change subjects here, but we do need to get together on this. Yes.

I don't know if this is what you were saying, Eric, but if these business owners will voluntarily agree that we're all just going to follow the same rules going forward rather than having some people subject to old BCA rules and some people subject to these new rules. I think it'd be better for everybody if if they will willingly agree to say, "Okay, we have new sidewalks. They're bigger. They're different. Let's all get on this on the same standard." But I don't know if you guys want to go down that road. I don't even know if that makes sense. Well, it's certainly a conversation we can have with them and then, you know, if you if that's what the council would like

or that's what the council would like because I don't understand the intricacies of what happened with the BZA in the past. So, just an idea. up for me everybody be on the same rules. Well, we have to keep we have to keep in mind that the BZA allowed the outdoor seating, but ultimately it was a council decision because it's a town sidewalk. So, the council still had to prov to allow them to be on the sidewalk. Even though the BA said the seating was okay, it still was a final decision through the town council that they could use the town property for for outdoor seating. As it stands, are the individual businesses responsible Yes.

I think we put November through uh the end of March I believe. Of course, that can be modified. Yeah. I I don't think we should charge the fee. Can I ask you two things? Sure. About the fee, can you just remind me? It talks about there's some aesthetic stuff in here, right? Like materials.

If this were adopted, does that become the rules of the game? Is there any other review by Frank or the plan commission or anybody else? or is this what what dictates what happens out there? So in this particular case, one of the things was trying to make it more bizer business friendly if you would. Uh so they didn't have to come through aesthetic reviews, pay the $200 if they were going to use these four corners. So basically it would be reviewed through the planning department to make sure they were using adequate materials and to uh fit with what was in those guidelines. That's a good point. Maybe say it all has to be black.

I was just trying to understand pro and now I remember that conversation. So, thank you first. But I was just trying to think process-wise what would happen. My other question was one comment was if we go through an annual process, it gives us some opportunity to make sure they're doing the things they said they were going to do and following the rules. Basically, my assumption would be if we have an issue in the middle of the year, we we have the ability to basically take corrective actions with them.

That would be correct. This would be probably the final, you know, and I'll use Mr. Zawatsky goes and talks to him twice and he gets it corrected, but it's an ongoing issue. Then next year he would not have to issue them a permit. Thank you.

But I believe, if I remember correctly, we did talk about potentially having the materials all the same on four corners at one particular time. And uh correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the feeling was that would be nice to allow them the latitude so all the corners didn't look the same, that it would be a little more colorful for in the area. And the challenge with that, just like if you look over at Bo House and Lock Scott, their umbrellas are provided by vendors. So they're not necessarily going to be always conforming in that regard. So it may add additional expense and force them to buy it themselves where they could be provided by a vendor.

So that would be Yes. So if there's advertising on an umbrella for our current signed ordinance, it states that is considered signage and then they would have they have to go through uh they

yeah one time they the boat house went through aesthetic review for umbrellas and when they changed them out one particular time and if I remember correctly the Scottata did also. So I think they both went through aesthetic review for their umbrellas because the additional signage more so than anything else. So we certainly can, you know, take this under advisement if the council would like for more consideration and uh give me some additional feedback or we'll move forward however you want to do. So let's just pound it out. Now I I'm not anything. I just I was making suggestions. I'll do those already doing it just

right. Can we uh can we review this document annually to make sure I mean something's going on? I mean, we have the power anyway. So, yes, you can modify any document and even a town ordinance. It's just a matter of uh Mr. Culp, you know, redoing it and then Mr. Culp would create an ordinance based upon this permitting process. Whatever the consensus is, I'm a problem with either whatever the group thinks best.

I don't have a problem with the fee, but I'm still intimidated by doing anything with I mean, if the council wants to do a fee, it can be a minimal fee. I mean, how about we do this? How about we let it roll this year next year? Yeah. If there's additional charges, you know, like replacing we see what we have to absorb and then we can make we can make a decision based on history instead of just spitball.

So, for their equipment. They're bringing in 1% food tax to the town by allowing extra people to sit there. So, there's a benefit to the town. It's getting people outside downtown. By them doing that, being able to sit outside, it's going to bring more people into this area to sit outside. So, those are the benefits. Just I do see the benefit of not charging the fee because then it's open and that's a fair Well, that's the point I was trying to make earlier. I don't think that expectation is clear amongst the town nor the business owners. Well,

because if I bought that furniture and I I'm assuming that insurance liability for that furniture, even if I'm not paying a fee, I would expect to have the authority to tell somebody to get off. We're absorbing the liability from where that furniture sitting. Well, they're identifying us, right? I mean, the intent is that's that is for that business. That's the intent and they should have the right if somebody's sitting sitting there so there I'm going to challenge you there because the discussions we had when we were talking about seating was for the community not for the specific business if I remember well for the community to go to that business and patronize that business.

See I don't think there's a consensus among ourselves on I I disagree that they're business specific. So in regards to that question, so in regards to they would admify the town and the town would be a required that they town would be an additional insured on their policy because of them using that space for their business. My point was in the morning when Broncos isn't open, I'm sure coffee over there, that's fine,

but not take business away during an afternoon or a table away. If there's a line of people waiting, somebody walking down the sidewalk and just plop down there. That's not the intent. And I mean, the other choice, we can do nothing and continue on the path we're on. If somebody, you know, Bronco wants to put seating out there and Dark Side Roster wants to put it out there, they can do so. And I think I think you're on your should and you know, maybe that's to that point, you know, maybe you do it for a year and see how it all works out. No fee.

Whose idea were these bumpouts? an a hard time. The southern bumpouts belong to the southern council. I I will say there might be a few consequences giving just a few. So I captured I hope I got this correctly that we'll move forward with this have Mr. help draw up an ordinance and there will not be a fee at this particular time. And then removing the tables and chairs during that period of time over the winter is okay. Okay, that's what we will proceed with then. Thank you. Thanks, sir.

One other thing just to keep it on the radar. So, we talked last year about a wheel tax and I just want to make sure that doesn't escape all of us and uh you know, we probably need to bring that to the council in the near future. Did we not vote that in? No. So, we did not have to vote it in last year. So, it was delayed knowing that we could do it this year and have that discussion. So, I was fully under impression we voted in. I tried to push it and then it was just said, "Let's just do it later." I I I I'm still So it has to go to into effect January 1st to 27th.

Yes, sir. By then? So I just want to keep it on the radar and you know if you have a a month that you would like to see it here, then I'll get with Mr. Culp and we'll get this to before the board. So let's get it over with. There's a second second. I was going to say just make sure nothing changes in the legislative session which is supposed to be done at the end of February. Okay. I'll plan on uh having Mr. Culp in sometime in March or early April then to get that on the agenda. Let's not do the second meeting March. Yeah. I figured I was going to leave that one off. Yeah. So, we'll pro we'll shoot for April just to be on the safe side. That's all I had unless there's anything for me.

Thank you. All righty. Thank you. I'm assuming there's nothing but park since Jimmy's gone. That being said, so manybody else are awesome. Thank you. The northern or the southern You got to pick a side. You got to pick a side. Northwest. As long as it has north in front of it, I'm good. Um, who got to talk? Christian. Christian, do you have anything to say? All right, man. All right. Well, Sean, Sean, you're welcome to talk. Actually, you know what? Sean, you're not off the hook.

Please stand up and introduce yourself to the council so everybody knows you. Please. My name is Sean Wilson. I've been with the utilities for 23 years. Any questions? Great job. You're doing a great job. part. You're part of the leadership team there, correct? Yep. Yes, sir. Keep up the good work. Thank you. You wouldn't be doing our job if we didn't put you on the spot a little bit. I appreciate it. Yep. Thank you. All righty. All right, guys. Thank you for all. All right, back to this motion to adjourn. So move Dennis Johnson.

She already so moved it. You're second. All in favor? Opposed?