Council - Regular Meeting

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Please remain standing, Ms. Gary.

Thank you, Father. Father, we always give you all the glory. Thank you for your... All your blessings.

Thank you for the counsel.

Amen. All right, Ms. Garrett, if you could take a roll. Present.

Present. Present. We have a quorum of four members present.

Moving along to the approval of the agenda. I know we have some revisions to a Knight's agenda. Eric adding weight limits on under old business agreement license agreement license under new business.

And then the resolution resolution for signing it closer. Yep. Under new business.

What comes after F, G?

This resolution 0721-2026-02.

Slow down.

07-21-2026-02. And that's to allow you to sign in the closing. It is. Okay. All right. Anything else? Frank, we're going to capture you. Frank. Keith, we're going to capture you under... agreement with you we're going to discuss under your section is that okay are you prepared to do that okay um i feel like i'm missing something help me here aaron are we missing something i think we've covered everything that's all i have okay all right i guess we're good um if there are no other revisions i'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended so moved second motion and second all in favor aye opposed we have an agenda Moving along to the approval of the prior minutes dated July 7th, 2026. Has everybody had an opportunity to review those minutes? Questions, concerns, revisions? If not, I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes as presented. So moved, Dennis.

Second, Emily Pearson.

Motion is second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Good to go on the minutes. Moving along to the claims. Has everybody had an opportunity to review the claims? Questions?

Concerns? I had a couple questions I asked. Regarding claims, I would like to put Rhonda on the staff meeting clothing allowance discussion.

To the staff meeting? Yeah, the next staff meeting, please.

Thank you.

Clothing allowance?

Yeah, thank you. I'll make a motion to approve the 721 claims.

Second, Dennis Johnson.

Motion to second, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? get the bills paid moving along to council committee reports nothing under edc mr freeman awesome thanks so much moving on legal council report mr colt i have nothing now we'll have things later on okay moving along this road jackson township plan commission report mr zelotsky Thank you very much. Mr. Strong, do you have anything under special projects? No, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Moving along, town engineering report. Mr. Bryant.

And here's where we come to a screeching halt.

And then there's me. Waste water treatment plant Reynolds continues restoration and punch list items. We're going to meet on site tomorrow and the engineer from the SRF group will be there as well. If you guys may recall, we've got banned financing or short term financing at some point. We'll probably roll that over and have to in long term financing. And we went through the SRF process to allow us to use state revolving fund loan to do that, which should give us lower interest rates. So during the project, we've been making sure we've been in compliance with all the SRF requirements and coordinating with them. But she, Amy, is going to be here tomorrow, and we're going to take her around the plants. But Reynolds continues to try to finish things up. So, you know, the plant's operational. They're just doing final punch list stuff and restoration.

We do not have a pay application.

Correct. Yeah, we have not seen one.

Did I hear in the month? Is that what I've heard?

I'm sorry, Eric, what?

End of month, they're expecting to be done.

Well, that's what I said two weeks ago, but I'm not as hopeful as I was. They had a delay with their paving subcontractor getting in there. It kind of set them back a week or two, I think.

I saw them out there last weekend paving, last Saturday.

Finally, yeah. They were late. They were about a week and a half later than what they were supposed to be there. Their sub had some equipment breakdown or something like that, they claimed, but But everything's operational, so it's really just aesthetics for the most part, you know. Questions about the wastewater plant?

Yes, sir.

So regarding wastewater, I mean, this improvements thing, this is just – Does this go with the wastewater just as a summary of what we've spent?

I actually put that together. Terry and I talked, and that's where Mr. Cook here is going to talk later. And this just kind of gives you an idea of projects since the last 50-some years that have been done to reduce I&I, among other things. So that's the purpose of it.

Okay, I got you.

Didn't you have one for me? Maybe I took yours. Somebody snagged yours, Joe.

Sorry, you're fine.

2026 CCMG East Jackson Street project pavings done striping is not done. Hydrant markers still need to go in some other miscellaneous talk to Dennis, but Terry and I walk in Sean as well and there we've already notified him that his four or five structures are going to have to adjust as well. They left down too low.

Okay, that's what I was going to ask about. It's like the Grand Canyon out there.

Yeah, I don't even know how. The finished grade was supposed to be the same elevation as pre, so I don't even know how they accomplished what they did with those structures.

I found it the hard way. Yeah. So do they have to dig that up then?

We're looking at different measures. If it's just a little bit, they make rings that go inside the casting. You can just drop a ring in there and raise it up an inch or something like that. So there's some methods to it. to raise some of the structures pretty easily.

Okay.

It's the ones that are in the wheel path that are really, and there's one there that's in the wheel path that everybody hits. You can just sit there and hear it. I'm surprised people across the road are not complaining from the noise, to be honest with you, because it's just like a drum. I'm sorry?

I hear it.

We're going to fix it, so... So we do have on that project a substantial completion walkthrough scheduled for the 30th, I believe. Yeah, for July 30th, because the main project manager is on vacation, so I kind of delayed that. But overall, it looks good. They do have some striping to correct and to finish, as I mentioned before, though. Morse Lending Drive underdrain project, we did a substantial completion inspection on that on the 16th. We have put together a punch list and substantial completion form that we've sent to them. When they sign us in that back, we'll send it up to the stormwater board for signature and review. But basically, they've got seating, cleanups, and some depressed areas in their yards they've got to fix, a few minor concrete things here and there. But most of it's completed and looks really good.

So I walked it, and there's, I guess after, when did you walk it?

The 16th.

So that's this week?

Last week.

Okay. So I walked it, and there's some areas that have some pretty big holes. Yeah.

They're supposed to come in, and they're going to fill those areas because we said, well, we don't want the liability of somebody tripping. So they need to get those filled, and they said they'd do that this week. They haven't got there yet. But then they are going to have to reseed and retill and redo all that. But the reality is they're not going to have any grass grow until September at this point. So there's really not. They'd just be wasting time to plant it now.

Well, we've had quite a bit of rain, but I would have expected a little more than what's there. Yeah, there's some pretty big holes. Okay.

Of course, if you imagine, they got that all filled and it looked really nice, and then we got that five inches of rain in an hour, so that kind of didn't help the situation. We wound up with part of the topsoil out in the curb line at that point. It's always that tricky thing, getting the seed to grow and getting it done in the perfect weather, you know, where it's not washing away. But it's a tough balance, but they will address it again here shortly. 2027 CCMG, we did email up on the 16th, I think, a task order for that. or there's two task orders. So we talked about that and set the scope. There's a task order 3A and 3B. The 3A, and I believe that's what you wanted us to do, the 3A basically is, hey, what does it take to do everything except for that dry water main that we talked about possibly putting in there for a future connection over to the west side of the reservoir. So basically you've got task order 3A and then you've got 3B if we do want that. It's additive, so this is just the extra work that would be required if we wanted to proceed. Really probably should decide whether we want to do it now or not because construction costs is an extra $420,000 or so, but you're also spending $40,000 or $50,000 in extra design, permitting, construction admin costs that if you're not going to do it, Now then, you know, we might as well wait and delay that as well. So it's really your choice. The pros and cons. I mean, I don't know. I don't think anybody sitting here knows when we might extend that water main over there. Another option that we talked about is if we don't do it now. We can come in and we can actually directional drill much of that section, like in 1,000, 1,200-foot lengths and really not damage. We have to dig a hole at those two ends, but we're not tearing up all the pavement.

So your recommendation would be, knowing it's 420 now, what's united?

I have a hard time without knowing when and if and ever we're going to extend over there. It's tough to spend a half a million dollars now with unknowns. I mean, it's really, I have a hard time recommending that.

Do you have any estimate, just ball, split ball number of what a directional drill of that pipe size would cost?

It probably could be $250, $300 a foot, something like that. So, I mean, it, It probably would wind up costing us another $150,000, $200,000 roughly.

So you're thinking $600,000? Yeah.

But by the time we do it, I mean, if it's eight, ten years from now, we may decide, well, we just cut the pavements ready to be resurfaced again, and maybe we just go ahead and cut the pavement. So it depends on the timing.

Or do something on the other side even. Right. Okay. Thank you.

But on that project, though, as we've talked, September is the application for that project to the NDOT to try to get the 80% grant money on the eligible items. We really need to get started in design. So if there's any way you could entertain that tonight, because... Like we talked before, they've kind of squeezed the period from when they give you the grant to when you have to have successful bids, and there's not enough time to do survey and design in that window anymore. Our recommendation would be we move forward if we're going to apply in September.

And that does not include any of those utilities, overhead utilities, correct? Correct.

Yeah, it's a scope where we talked about, which is basically extended. It is extending all the sidewalks and widen them all the way down, putting on the from Main Street West on the north side. Go ahead and putting it down to the condos, putting new street lights down through there. The two crosswalks with push buttons with raised pedestals for crosswalks for safety for pedestrians, the pedestrian safety, you know, one east and one west of Main Street. And of course, we five and a half inch mill and replace a pavement to get the pavement restored.

So we are talking about a, with engineering, about a $2 million project of which about a million dollars would be covered by, potentially covered by the grant.

It's pretty accurate, yeah. If you get the grant, it'd be a million dollar grant. So it'd be, yeah, about 1.94. So you're pretty close. Estimated again, do we get competitive business less than that? Maybe I mean which we don't want to be that when we get put together as much we try not to be the low bidder because that doesn't that doesn't do much for us in planning we have to Get bids and we can't afford to do it, right? So hopefully we've been pretty successful in the bids on these last season CCMG projects that they've come in under the estimate Something we can't control but we we do our best to estimate anyway. I

So I guess my question to the council is, do you guys like that design? Or do you think something else needs to be looked at? When we talked about a roundabout, I don't think you're not going to do it for this price for that. Right. And I don't know that there's room.

Not without making some major changes there. I'm good with it, with what was discussed.

I am too.

Mr. Johnson?

There's so much is in that. And we don't. We don't know what the moving of the power line. Utilities are going to be.

So that wasn't scoped.

It's not. It's not in there. Yeah, I mean, if we're going to move utilities, we won't be applying in September and we get started doing some research about how to get utilities on board. But I'm going to guess it's. at least half a million dollars to move those utilities and minimum to bury them.

So then if you wanted to do it later at a later time, I mean, is that possible? If somebody in the future wanted to move those utilities at a later time, are there means to be able to do that? I'm assuming directional drilling again.

Potentially, yeah. If you can do it to Duke standards and everybody else's standards, that's the tough part. Duke is really difficult to deal with on the causeway. I know that. I mean, it's $250,000. for them to move on the causeway. Ten years ago. Yeah. So I think it's feasible whether they would agree to it or not is an if. I'm guessing to coordinate and get the utilities moved, like I said, it's probably at least a half a million dollars paying the utilities and probably would take a year to get it pulled off.

I mean, it took us forever, this one pole over here.

Right, yeah, exactly.

So then the question is, we have two task orders. B is the engineering for that dry main, and then A is for the other work. I think what I heard, I guess we need to make a decision if we want to do that dry main or not. I am of the opinion probably not at this time. We don't know where it's gonna go. We don't know if potential something over there or if other improvements can handle what's going on over there or what. Other options for new developments if we wanna separate that out. Okay, I'll make a motion to approve United working task order 2026-03A in the amount of $195,200 for the 2027 CCMG Phase 2 West Jackson Street Improvement Project.

Nice work. I'll second.

Motion to second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye.

Moving on to the waterworks. On the 16th, we did approve the task order the council did and we started the survey for all the waterworks projects. Of course, that's about five projects. There's five projects involved with that. The new water plant, two new wells, new elevated storage tank, and also potentially raising the two other elevated storage tanks. So all those are like five different divisions, separate design, separate bid packages, separate permitting. So based upon that direction of that, you know, when we went through all the options, we went back and looked at all the man hours and put together the cost to do the design for that. That's what was presented.

So that's all captured in the 2.7?

Correct. And that's construction phase, that's bid phase, that's design phase, permitting, that's everything. So really five very large projects. It's basically... The plant project is probably equivalent to the wastewater plant project, but then we have five other projects at various sites that are all additive to that. Between all the water mains as well, we have raw water mains and finished water mains that have to be put in to make the system work as well.

I'm trying to find which document it is. Give me one second. Now I'm not going to be able to find professional services agreement. There is a section that says additional services. United Consulting may provide additional services if directed by the town and shall bill in accordance with Appendix D. For additional agreed upon lump sum fee, additional services may include the following. Additional construction, admin, and inspection services. So that's if you have to come out. more times than what's specified?

Right. Which I don't anticipate. But if we decided to, we needed to, or if the council decided we needed to, it would be extra. We spelled out in Appendix A before that exactly how many trips. And I think it's sufficient to cover it. But we can't control five contractors if maybe we get a bad contractor and we decide that, hey, this contractor, we need to watch more often. It could happen. So we had to assume some level that we think is reasonable.

So additional permitting services, I guess?

We've got all the permits covered for all these phases, but if something comes up that's totally and spelled out, if there's something unanticipated for some bizarre reason, which, again, I don't think there will be, then we'll need to talk about it.

And you guys are the experts.

Yeah, I'm not anticipating any of those. It's just we have, I mean, we can't foresee everything.

So this is standard format? Yeah. Okay. And we've probably approved this exact verbiage before?

I would say it's very similar to the wastewater plant project, yeah.

Okay. Then I'm all right with that.

And, you know, our history, if you look at the wastewater plant, we don't come back and ask for something unless it's really something out of the ordinary. So I don't think we ever have, to be honest with you.

That's appreciated. As I was reading through it, I didn't remember seeing it before.

We will need an updated copy. You still have Jan listed as the clerk treasurer on here.

Oh, gosh, really? I was going to say, you'll probably let her just sign anything.

Keep your name off of it. That's the last one. We could have had it taken care of.

I'm going to have to double up on the candy.

Where does it say that at? I'm looking at it. Appendix F. Oh, under the E-Verify, probably. Is that what it is?

So the certificate of liability.

The signature page is Rhonda.

It's the certificate of liability insurance. Oh. Where's that at?

Oh, let's see. That came from our insurance carrier. Yeah, I didn't catch that. Yeah.

I think we all about fell out of the chair.

It's a big number. That's why I tried to explain it. But again, how we come up with this is we look at all those tasks that we know from history that it's required to do all these things. And that's what the man hours add up to. I mean, it's a year long with several people working on this to get it done. And if you look at the percentages, because I always go back, even though percentages don't, you know, we don't do, like some architects will do design based upon percentage of estimated construction. Well, like we talked earlier, we can't control construction costs. So I think it's a lot better to look at man-hour tasks because we know what it takes with our staff to do something. But it's a good check, because usually on these projects, the engineering costs for all phases are like 20% to 25%. And we're like at 15%. So it's a good double check. I do believe it's a reasonable number for all the effort involved.

So that's where I was going. Joe and I talked and went out and did some research. And you guys are at 15.54% engineering to total cost. and industry standard now that's a little off because a lot of the numbers between 20 and 25 i think includes survey as well which we paid separately right um but that 20 to 25 percent joe seems reasonable from your research as well correct so you it seems like you're under

Right, and we tried to look at all the divisions and say, hey, we're pretty sure we'll be doing this at the same time, so we tried to save as much cost as we could by that.

So, I mean, I just wanted that known that we went out and looked at what is typical from firms versus where you guys are at. You're probably on the lower side.

I believe that's the case, yeah. Yeah.

even though we all fell out of our chairs.

I knew you would because I would have bet as well. Now, one other thing I'd point out, too, that only the design costs would be incurred until we have financing. So the rest of the construction admin, the bid phase, all that stuff would come after we probably have at least a ban in place, a sewer ban or water ban in this case in place. And, of course, you could reimburse those other costs as well if you choose to.

So then I did have a question. Sure. Just something to think about. I mean, we're looking at a 300,000 gallon new tank, correct?

Correct.

If we were to go to a 500,000 gallon tank, it's plus $700,000. So if we look at raising the two existing tanks, one's 150K. I don't know this. Terry just told me this. and the other is 300,000 gallon tanks, 300 west side, 150. So if the east, it's the older tank, the structure is not capable of raising that tank.

Or it gets too expensive because there's a lot more things around it. Yes.

I guess put in the back of your mind if that 500,000 gallon tank would cover raising that 150,000 gallon tank. I don't know if you've looked at that or not.

I thought about it because like you said, I think from a system standpoint, we'd be better off having the three tanks. But I think if it gets too expensive to raise that tank over there, the small tank, the one down by Terry's office, we could build a larger tank and it might be more cost effective up here. which means we need to really get that evaluation done, kind of delay the design for the new tank until we get the answers related to that. And I have been talking to Phoenix fabricators and still trying to get somebody up here because we're going to have to get them up here to help us evaluate that because they're the experts on building elevated tanks and raising them. I'm working on that, but you're right, early on we need to figure that out before because it might make more sense to build a bigger tank.

All right, I just wanted to make sure that was in the back of your mind.

Absolutely, yes, good thought. The other thing we'll have to go through, too, is we've got all those antennas and everything up on those tanks. We'll have to revisit those agreements, but I'm relatively sure that the agreement gives us a latitude to do maintenance and do things like that, and it's kind of whatever they've got to do is their problem and at their cost, but we'll need to revisit that.

They have to have notice and an opportunity to meet.

so aaron can you can can you look at that and make sure in our agreement i think it's a yearly maybe it's a five-year agreement right it depends on which which one some of those are five years with new materials and things included in them if you would make sure that we're covered terry and i talked a little bit about that earlier as well that as soon as we know we need to notify them all right thank you sure and it might work out that it makes sense to

If we are going to raise that one, depending on how that evaluation works out, it might make sense to build the new tank first, and then they might be able to function and move over to there and then just not go back on the other tank. So there might be some opportunity there just to how we phase it.

Okay.

Any comments? Any questions? Go ahead.

No.

Dennis?

No.

Motion maker?

I'm looking for the task order number. I have them here somewhere, I think. What task order was that?

We didn't put it in the form of a task order just because there's so much involved. So it's just really a separate agreement for the waterworks project.

How comfortable are you with the estimated project cost? I mean, what are you seeing in the market? COVID got us with wastewater treatment.

Right. I mean, I'm comfortable with it. I can't control it. You know, we've got a little thing going over in the Middle East and things like that that can impact costs. But right now, all the projects we've bid in the last, say, year, year and a half have all come in underestimate. So I feel pretty comfortable, you know, again, subject to some world war there, something crazy.

Right. Okay. So are you guys comfortable? Any other questions?

No.

I'm as comfortable as I'm going to be. And, Rhonda, our weight study, did we kick that off correct?

It's underway.

And they know this number? I told them I did.

That's why that was the sense of urgency to do the rate studies because I told them we had this in the works.

But they know roughly this number and the engineering costs?

I don't know. I haven't given it that.

I think they were given the full project number, which includes more than this in the engineering.

Okay. So I'll make a motion to approve the task order for the water treatment plant. Okay. What options? Plant option two, tank option, highlighted in the documentation from United.

I'll second.

Motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Thank you. We'll keep it moving. The survey is already going, and we did get the aerial survey work done. We've done a lot of the supplemental surveys, so the survey is moving ahead. This will keep anything from slowing down.

Thank you.

That's all I had at this point. Appreciate it.

Thank you. All right, moving along to old business, weight restrictions for roads. Mr. Hayden?

At the staff meeting, so currently we have a weight limit ordinance of 11,000 pounds at the staff meeting. We had a brief discussion of potentially changing that weight limit. We've talked to other businesses within the community that this is having an impact on. I mean, we had background information to state where we said it was reasonable at the time. I guess, is there any desire to look at adjusting that weight limit? I'd support it.

I think we need to.

I spoke with Connell, Knowlesville, and Fisher's engineering departments and talked with them about why they set theirs where they were. They vary all the way from 5,000 to 11,000 to 19,501 to up to 26,000 pounds. But every engineer told me the main object of the weight limits were just to keep the semi-traffic off residential roads. Aside from that, they really weren't enforcing, strictly enforcing any of the weight limits. If it's a point just to make sure we're keeping the semi-traffic off our residential roads, I have no problem adjusting the weight limit up, especially with exceptions that we're giving to the local businesses. But we're going to have to probably identify those somehow. so that the police department doesn't have to keep pulling over the same vehicles for our businesses.

Well, Aaron, is that, I mean, that's a good question, Dennis. Are you able to do something for a, quote, exception of a local business?

Well, the way the ordinance is written, local traffic, which would include traffic to and from a local business, is exempt. And so we could come up with, if we wanted to, some sort of a identifier, be it a sticker or a tag, so you know that's the local business. Now, we can't charge for it because if we start offering a permit, you can't sell a permit just to locals but not to people from out of town.

Go and make money.

Yes, but if all we're doing is letting them be identified that this is in town, like for example, we've got a truck operation that's right downtown or something, then we could come up with something like that that would let the police know immediately this is the local vehicle. And so that would be an option. You know, the other option is if we're moving the weight limit. I mean, I heard at one point 26,000 pounds. That's going to eliminate... virtually all the local vehicles that we've talked about, or at least what I've been told about.

And I think there's still a few. Yeah. So that 26,001 pound then requires a CDL if it's commercial, is my understanding.

I'm not by no means an expert. It requires a CDL.

Sean and Terry, I mean, do you guys have feedback? That's roughly a third of what we're allowing today at max load, correct? The 26,000 pound one.

Like you were saying, I'm trying to target those big tri-axle, quad-axles, and semis that are just driving through town because it's easier to take the same route like Jim was talking about. So, like you said, the 26,000 pound one cut down on some of them. Yeah, they're attractive.

What's the weight of a triaxial one? About 68,000 pounds.

I had 70K as a triaxial.

And if I read this right, up to Class 6 dump truck. would be under that. So it would be the bigger dump trucks that would be rolled out. But like some of the local ones that local landscapers and people are using who are doing business in our community would be under that. The one other thing, I know there was concern about how we were determining the weight. And I reached out to Chief Rednauer and he had reached out to Carmel and Noblesville, I think. And what they're using is gross vehicle weight rating, which is the maximum allowable weight of a fully loaded vehicle or trailer as determined by the manufacturer. And so they're just going by the rating. If this is rated for this weight, then it either is or isn't permitted. So we're not debating what you're actually weighing. And that's the system they've been utilizing. And so we can tweak the ordinance to go from the weight classifications we were using to track with this. And this is something that's stamped on the door by the manufacturer and determined in advance.

So that would essentially make it a little more restrictive than if we just went strictly by weight, potentially.

I mean, so your car has a GVWR on it, 2,500 pounds, whatever it is. So, I mean, that's what we tried to do with the license plate of where we ended, correct? But the GVWR seems to be the more standard, Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong?

Yeah. And it's worried about what's its capacity if you fully load it up. And so it's designed to keep that off the road. And again, you know, up to a class six dump truck, if i understand the chart correctly it's saying that that is rated as less than that so that would be allowed oh the gvr is less than that okay okay so what what poundage did you guys want to go with sean terry i mean do you guys i i think i know where

Several people want to end up.

So I kind of like that break point where you become a CDL for commercial. I think that's what you recommended, Frank. which is 26,001 pounds. So 26,000 pounds and under.

So for a frame of reference, like a Ford F450 with a trailer and maybe a Bobcat or something like that on it, it would just fit under that. So those types of vehicles would still be allowed. Bigger stuff, you know, triage dump trucks for example, loaded are extremely heavy, 68,000s max. I wouldn't want to inhibit working guys from stopping to get something to eat or things like that.

Well, again, and just for people listening, this does not apply to local traffic. So somebody who lives in town and is going to and from work, any business that's in town, or a business from outside of town that is driving into town to provide service. that they're all exempt from this. This is just people who are purely transiting through Sesame.

Keith, do you have any thoughts? I mean, our pavements are so.

I haven't looked at it in a while, but I emailed up some of this history and such. I think it's, I don't know how easy it will be in force. I don't know if it's cheap, but I don't know if it's forcing it.

What about our pavement standards? So like on Jackson Street, our pavement standards are, what are we designed to? Sorry to...

But you're talking...

40,000 per axle there, right?

Okay. Right. I mean, do you have a weight that you think is better than others? Right now we're at 11,000 pounds. I think, I don't know that that's the right limit. It seems low.

Is it 11,000 or is it based just total? Or is it based upon total?

Total. Total.

That's total.

But, you know, the reality is that, you know, 30,000 is a pound triaxially less damage than a 20,000 pound full axle probably as far as the road. So it might make some sense to base it upon axle weight.

I did ask that question during the staff meeting, if that's how we should look at it, but they didn't really state that we should. So maybe we hold off and we look at that first. But how do you enforce that? I mean, really, you've got to have the scales.

Yeah, that's the thing. They don't have the scales. So we got to go, we have to go by the GBR.

Okay.

Yeah. That's been the challenge is we're trying to find something without a scale. We can inform you and force uniformly.

All right. So I think Aaron, do you just need a consensus to update the ordinance and then we would vote on it?

Yeah. And then I would bring it back next meeting.

Okay. So are we good with 26,000 based on GBR 26,000, one pound and over are restricted. Correct. So it includes that one pound. Anything 26,000 pounds and under are allowed.

Yes. Now, one other thing, my understanding, was there some discussion, do we want it to apply to recreational? Again, my thought is 26,001 pounds is a pretty big recreational vehicle.

So I thought it was commercial vehicles only, but maybe...

This is based on the weight.

Okay.

Now, if it's a camper of a resident, then they're exempt because that's local. Right. But if somebody drives up and cuts over to, say, Kitiwi, and they're not local, they're just passing through, then they would technically fall under. I mean, we do have White River campground people coming from 30 miles.

I don't know that any RVs weigh that.

I don't know how they would. They're made of thinnest metal ever.

Oh, this can't be right.

Class A's get up over around 30,000.

Well, you're essentially, when you're talking to Class A, we really can see those around here?

Yeah, you see part of it.

But that's the top end. That's like...

I think we're getting a little too much in the weeds there.

There's no need to. I just wanted to ask you. We can leave it as is.

Yeah, so if you would update, I think there's a consensus to update to that.

Yeah, I agree. All right. Emily, you're good? I'm good. Dennis, good? I'm good.

All right.

Thank you.

All right, ready to move along? All right, Mr. Cook, 250 South First.

We had an ambulance agreement under old business. We did? Yeah. It's on mine. Maybe it was taken off. Ambulance agreement.

It's not on the printing copy.

Maybe I just wrote it down. I don't know.

I have no idea.

All right.

Keeps on vacation.

So I guess... Just a question, I had it on mine, I don't know where I got it from.

I thought we did the ambulance last time.

I did too. So maybe I just had a question.

Okay.

We have the agreement signed with the ambulance for the financial terms to repay the CCD.

We did. We did that last time because we did the amortization schedule when we signed off on it last council meeting.

I think we handled all of that. We did. Okay.

We did it by resolution. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Good? I'm good. Mr. Cook, apologies. If you don't mind stepping to the podium and stating your name and address.

Clem Cook. I own a property at 250 South Peru Street. The property's been in my family about 50 years or a little more. And we've pumped sewage out of the basement for 50 years. Still pumping sewage out of the basement because when Main Street Lift Station goes into an alarm, it backs up. Evidently, I'm the only house in town that still has a problem. Is that correct? I'm just trying to get a fact-finding mission here to See what's really going on. Was Main Street lift station in alarm on July 4th?

Yes.

Okay, we all know that, okay? Are there any plans to do anything with the Main Street lift station as far as improvements, a new lift station?

Can we back up? Sure. What happened? I'm sorry? What happened? Sewer backed up. Sewer backed up? Okay.

And I pump it out into my neighbor's yards. You got any other suggestions for pumping it? You don't want to pump it onto the highway, do you?

Yeah, exactly. I'm still trying to catch up with what took place here. So give us just a second to get our bearings before we go. And Terry, can you summarize this here?

He never contacted me until he contacted Ron. But Ron asked me what's going on. So I didn't know anything. Nobody's contacted me. I sent the email to you then. So when he came back and said that the main lift station, Main Street lift station, was alarmed and backed all the way up to 19, I never received any other calls from any other homes that they would have sewage backup, and that's quite a distance.

How many houses do you think roughly would be in between that?

Okay, I'm the third house off of that main.

Okay.

Okay? And like I said, this has been going on for 50 years, folks. It's nothing new. It's not a surprise. I just, obviously, you folks were in the dark and didn't realize this. But it's there. So he is... What are you doing with all this water?

Well, hang on real quick. Let's find your location. So you are just south of Port Cicero?

Yes. Third house south.

Okay.

For reference. I see it now. I see it.

And then, Terry, his sewer drains to the main state, the main...

It does.

It goes west over to and then down Trump Hill and... to right there?

You replaced that line down 19 a few years ago. That's where you made your mistake was not reversing the flow. If you could on that, send it back. You'd have taken a lot of pressure off of Main Street by doing that. But obviously that didn't. And it may not have even been feasible. I don't know. But I didn't even know it was happening.

We're talking about the relining project there, right?

Well, I mean, that's why. So it's all making sense now. That's where this has come into play. Keith has provided. Okay. So we have had over the years.

I've replaced furnaces. I've replaced main boards and furnaces. I've cleaned and pumped. And this wasn't just, yes, it might have been a 100-year event, but we've had that 100-year event several times in the last 20 years, 30 years. Last year, I had eight inches of water in there because the sump pump failed and the backflow preventer didn't work.

So you do have a backflow device?

I have a backflow preventer in the sewer line in the basement. I'm contemplating putting a manhole out in the yard so I can put a backflow preventer out there. You know, this is, like I say, it's just going on too long, guys. We need to do something.

So, I mean, this is, I've been on the council, this is my 12th year. This is the first time that I remember hearing of this one. We've heard of others. I'm not going to say there's not, we haven't had problems, but this is the first time I'm hearing of this one.

Okay, well, like I say, I'm kind of on a fact-finding mission here tonight. And from now on, every time it happens, I will be up here. And if, you know, we're still going to do this year down the road, I guess, you know, we're talking tort claim here to get something done. I mean, document, document, document. And that's what I'm trying to do tonight is document the fact that I have a problem and you have a problem. Like I said, what are you doing with all this water? So every time it rains, you're getting stormwater into your system. There's no doubt about that. Now, Keith told me you'd basically double the size of the city's treatment plant, so evidently you're treating all this water. And the problem with Main Street is it can't get it there because, well, I ask here, well, did you guys get a copy of my questions? No.

All I had is all I sent to you. You just sent me an email that says that you don't want to be put on the agenda to discuss your questions. I sent you an email with this with an attachment with all these questions on it Okay, well I'll just I'll just go down the list here then I thought you had the questions I'm sorry We've determined Main Street was an alarm and

And my other question is, what are you doing with the water when that goes in the lawn?

Well, so over the years.

Over the years, I know what's happened over the years. No, you don't.

So we've spent $28.5 million working on I&I and sewer improvements. Were you aware of that? So if you'll let me speak, over the years, we've significantly reduced the I&I going into our stormwater sewer. We have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars to fix that. We are significantly better. We actually have an IDIM. What's it called? Noncompliance. Agreeable. agreed order and that drove the wastewater treatment plant. So the town has put significant effort in reducing I and I. That's the infiltration from stormwater and being able to use additional. So we believe we're in a pretty good place at the moment. But this is the first time, like I said, I haven't been 12 years straight, but I've been on here 12 years on the council. And this is the first time that I remember hearing of this.

Okay, well, that's why I'm here now. Okay, wonderful.

So there has been significant.

The treatment plant doesn't have to divert any water. They can handle everything they get.

That's good.

But like I say, you spend a lot of money treating stormwater.

Is there any chance that if this happens and I pump this raw sewage, diluted raw sewage, out into my neighbor's yard, because that's the only place it can go, flows across there, is there any chance town can come back and maybe rinse that off a little bit for them?

So I would say our next step, Mr. Cook, is to Now that our utility department knows and our engineering team knows, I think we need to take a look and see what's going on. I mean, I have a hard time understanding that the backflow valve is not working.

My backflow valve?

That's correct. So we have requirements.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to keep interrupting. No, it's OK.

I know you're frustrated. Go ahead, please.

Well. I tried to do things local, and the first plumber that we called, his number was no longer good. The second plumber that we called came to the house, couldn't get one of the bolts off, so they told my grandson, you know, these old houses, they get a lot of water, and when the lift station goes down, you might as well just expect to get that water. The third plumber,

Local plumber never returned our call.

I have a plumber coming, but he's from out of town. Sad, but true. One thing that would really help, and today I see all these monitors, so you're up to speed in the world. When Main Street goes into alarm, if a text message went out, we could prepare it. Do what?

Well, it doesn't go. He's asking if the text message would go out to civilians. It goes out. So the station texts our employees to go address the issue. But it doesn't send out a text message to the general public.

Well, could you have one of your employees maybe give me a text? If I knew it was coming, it would help. And even when I get this check valve fixed, you don't flush the toilets when that thing is closed. Do you understand that? So it'd be nice to know when Main Street is not in alarm again and the water is flowing so we could flush our toilet. That's the other point. So you might want to think about Find a way to let me know if it's an alarm. It sure would help.

Mr. Cook, what I'm going to suggest is we have Mr. Cooper, utility director, look into it. Because normally what happens is if somebody has a backup, They contact the utility department, and we go and we figure out what caused that backup and then what was necessary to prevent it from happening or to correct it. And so that's the step we need to take.

Well, no, we know what's causing the backup.

We don't know. Well, I'm telling you. I know that.

And your engineer right here, he'll confirm what I'm saying. When Main Street goes into alarm, it backs up. And don't kid yourself, folks. It comes all the way back.

But what I'm saying is I've been representing the town now for about 17 years. And this is the first I've ever heard of your issue. And none of our staff or anyone knew about it until today.

The check valve took care of things. But about three years ago, something happened to the check valve. And I had a real good renter in there. And he never called me. He just took care of things. But he's not there now. My grandson's there now. So we need to get this problem taken care of. I always thought it was on Spring Street. Somewhere there's got to be a cross connection. You don't get that much water that fast. It's not just groundwater leaking in there. Something's... across from someplace and that storm water.

And that's where they will do their investigation because they have to figure out where this is coming from. But we need Mr. Cooper and his staff along with Mr. Bryant to have a chance to look into it.

Okay. Well, so now you know I have a problem. There is a problem on Peru Street. 219, or 250 South Peru, 219, where the hell did that come from? Anyway, I'm not here to cause trouble or to make anybody mad. I just like to not have to clean up the patient again and again and again.

We understand your frustration. I mean, we can look into it. We want to know where any INI, and if this is a significant contributor somewhere on that street, I mean, we will put a plan together and look into it and see what we can find. I also think it's your responsibility to make sure that the check, I understand, But to make sure the check valve is working appropriately. So we have requirements so that this doesn't backflow into homes.

I couldn't get a local plumber.

I understand.

I know that, you know, I used to sit in that seat right there. And a lot of people in this town don't have a lot of use for me because I wasn't the nicest guy in the world. But, you know, that's either here or there. Hopefully they're not pulling a grudge against my grandson. But, yeah. Tomorrow, I think, they're supposed to be there to fix that check valve. But check valves sometimes fail. It happens. And those stations sometimes fail. It happens.

They do. And we've done a lot of work. And like I said, we've spent $28.5 million trying to fix I&I and enforcement issues.

I appreciate that.

I appreciate anything you can do. Okay. So I think we can look at it and see what we can come up with. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, moving along. Utility office parking resurface. Frank, you sure you want to do this tonight? Can we just strike it?

Yeah, we sure can.

OK. We'll talk offline. OK. All right. All right. I assume there was a conversation that took place before this. Yeah. I mean, I had a feeling you didn't want it on the agenda, but it was still on there.

I am on the agenda of the staff meeting. I did follow up with Mr. Hayden and asked him to pass some of those results. There is one sensitive issue.

That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So we'll just push that down the road. All right. Mr. Hunter, grant writer.

No, I guess the first thing to decide tonight is if we want to continue our obligation with Amy Shanklin from Green Tree on the grant writing.

So we did have a discussion at the staff meeting. I think everybody was here for that, right? I'm trying to remember last week. I can't remember yesterday.

I think we talked about a three-month extension. A three-month extension, yes.

Is that correct? Yeah, she was asking for six. Dan and I... throughout the idea of three. We've had some conversations since then. I just need to know where you land on what to do.

Like I said in the staff meeting, my biggest issue with six is we're going to hit a period of time where there's just not a lot going on from a grant writing standpoint, and I don't see the necessity to pay for it in those months. That's my thought process at least.

I guess does... Department heads have a feeling of what's right and what's wrong? That includes you, Mr. Strong.

I know that the utilities department, usually, we don't qualify. We always throw in the income surveys. We run into that all the time. Okay.

I say either don't renew it or renew it for three months.

I think we have to with what's going on for three months to try to take an existing one through. Okay. Give me your feedback if you guys...

i think that would get us through the 11cf grant but it also would get us through the crowdfunding project and about three months would get us through those and then also the other potential grants that she is currently looking into so i think three months would be adequate i'm gonna be in agreement that i don't think at this point we would want to move out six months but i think three months would be

Okay. And then revisited it three months. Mr. Culp, what do we need? Just consensus?

Yeah, because we're currently on a month-to-month with her, I believe. So that will continue until we give her notice we're terminating.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Good to go. All right, moving along, wheel excise tax.

Mr. Cole? Yes, members of the council, you'd asked me to put this together as I think people are aware by now. Thanks to HEA 1461, the law was changed recently so that a large pot of money is only going to be available for road work to communities that have adopted a wheel and excise tax. And to give you an idea of that, the community crossing grant is $100 million. And this pot of money that is the lane mile correct distribution is estimated to be between $190 million and $254 million. So we're talking about more than we are getting in the community crossing grant. And because we have 5,000 people or more, we are required to adopt that tax or be eliminated from that fund. And so I put together an ordinance. to be introduced tonight, but not to be voted on because we have to have a public hearing. I did not put in the dollar amounts of what you guys wanted to charge. I did include some notes because the state statute sets forth the requirements of what we'd have to do. For the wheel tax, the minimum is $5. And for the excise tax, the minimum is $7.50. That's annual, right? Yes, annual.

And if you remember, this has been discussed in previous council meetings. We just decided to push it down the road a little bit.

Yeah, because we have to have it adopted and noticed to the state by September 1st of this year, or else we'll miss out on that money next year. And the council decided not to do it last year because we weren't required to.

and you know as this ordinance i think makes clear we're doing this because we're required to or else we would be turning down a lot of money to help our roads essentially what he's referring to it says this is our private primary source of road funding and they put in new requirements for us to charge this wheel and this excise tax for us to be eligible for those monies so we do have the latitude to determine what amounts we want to set and in previous Just to refresh everybody, in the previous meetings we decided on the minimums for each set forth by the statute. So what we have to determine is if that's where we want to stay with it, at the minimums, or if we want to go to another amount.

I have to leave the CCMG application in September. Do you have to have this in place next year as well?

Well, that was changed as part of that legislation. So now you can get CCMG without it, but this bigger pot of money you have to be a part of.

But originally that's what it was under SBO.

Yeah, it got changed. This is one of the fun things that happened late in the session.

So, I mean, let's get it in by September anyway. So I am not for adding extra tax, but it benefits our citizens greatly as rules change. So I would be for the $5 for wheel tax. Minimum $5 wheel tax is what's allowable, and excess tax at $7.50 is allowed.

That's where I'm at as well. I agree. Those are both the bare minimum that we're required to do. Have our consensus, Mr. Johnson?

I agree.

Then I will insert those numbers. We will publish notice. 5 and 750. 750? Mm-hmm. We sent out the notice to the paper so it can get published. It had to have at least 10 days notice. So we will have a discussion, a public hearing at our next meeting. And after that, the council can vote or it can wait until the following meeting. But that will get us done in time to get notice to the state by September 1st.

Okay. That is ordinance number 07-21-2026-01. Okay. All right. Good there?

Moving along, LWCF Engineering. Sorry, if I would have noticed it, I just had to stay up there.

That's all right. As I spoke to you at the staff meeting recently, one of the things we need to find out for purposes of submitting the grant, which is due on the 31st of July, is whether or not we would be willing to move forward with engineering fees and studies upon state approval.

I mean, these are going to be incurred. no matter if we get the grant or not, if we keep trying to apply for it, correct, and eventually get it. So it's probably going to be cheaper now than it is going to be later. So I support.

I support. I support it.

Okay.

Thank you. Yes, sir. Yeah, one last thing, if you're ready to go to miscellaneous.

Well, we have two more topics before we get to miscellaneous.

Oh, I didn't see that. I didn't write it in there.

All right, quick refresh on the license agreement. It's just a boat license agreement between planning Yeah. And that's 0721-2026-02, correct? No, that's the resolution.

Yeah, that's the resolution.

Oh. This is just an agreement. It doesn't have a resolution or ordinance on it. Gotcha.

What's the resolution?

That is for the closing.

Oh, there we go. I forgot. I only wrote half of it down. Okay.

So I'll make a motion to approve the boat license agreement. And essentially this is to use a boat by a town employee.

Yeah. I second. Motion and second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Vote away. All right. Now moving on to resolution 0721-2026-02, which would allow Ms. Gary to sign our closing documents for the T&T parks.

So we just need a motion and a second. I'll make a motion to approve that resolution.

Second, Ms. Johnson.

Motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Good to go there. Miscellaneous, Mr. Hunter.

As I spoke at the staff meeting last week, the July 4th festivities in the park this year generated $14,550 in vendor fees. That money traditionally is used each year that goes back to the town, and that money is used to prepare for whether it be the street department, police department, any of the departments that need Barricades stop signs whatever they need to help make the future events work better I'm here tonight to ask for ten thousand dollars of that money to Put toward a PA system in the park as you know, it's something I've kind of wanted to do for a long time We just couldn't put the funding together but in light of the storm that we had on July 4th in the park and the Nature of the severity of that we've decided we want to push ahead. I believe that that cost to install the PA system throughout the park there at Community Park to be around $21,000. I'm still trying to fine tune that, put numbers together. But I did get a commitment from Lights Over Morris Festival for $5,000 of that and $5,000 from the Cicero Friends of the Park. So I'm asking for the $10,000 to hopefully round that number out from that festival funds.

Existing monies? Thoughts, questions?

I think we need it, especially after that storm, because we're vulnerable for the farmer's market, for anything we have. Any type of festival and a warning system would really, really help.

I agree.

Dennis? I agree. Eric?

You're down. Thank you.

All right. Move along. Comments by citizens. I have two blue slips. Mr. Freeman, you were first.

You're going to pass? No, he just wants to go last. You're deferring?

You can go last if you want to. I'll go second. Whatever you want. And step up.

Oh, no, I'm going to step up.

Ann Mare, 629 Shore Lane. And I just want to ask about these call before you dig utility flags. I've had them in my yard for well over a month. They put them down. I finally asked you about taking them down. You said, yeah, I'll take them down. They showed up again.

I have them in my yard for the fourth time this summer now.

Yeah. Well, and... What scares me is in my yard, there are the yellow gas line flags. And so it worries me to remove those because my daughter's house on Catamaran, the road got closed because they cut the gas line. The bus couldn't even get my grandson's home. They had to drop him off somewhere else. I know of a neighborhood years ago that blew up because they cut a gas line. I guess I just wonder, is there something that can be done? It's like, okay, you guys want to put in these whatever fiber optics. You have to put them in within a week or two after you do the call to dig. But they don't. They just sit there and sit there for weeks and months.

So I'll throw a question out there. What is the expectation to leave those flags in once they're placed? Is it one week, two weeks? Half the time they flag it, and then I never see anybody even come and do the work.

There's a duration.

They should be gone when the work's done.

But they don't ever come and work.

They're good for so much time.

They could have bored through that without you even knowing.

Okay, so, well, you know, Christine was right on the corner by me. So one day I came home, and she was out there, and there was a guy on the other side, on the, what, north side of the street, and they had board underneath Shore Lane. And he said, and they had this big machine, and he said, we'll be back tomorrow, okay? Okay. I asked Christine, did they dig again? No, nothing. And so everybody removed the flags. We never saw any equipment out there again. And now there's more flags again. And they paint the yellow. Well, when you mow, you mow that yellow up. And like I say, if it weren't for gas lines, I could care less.

I think there's a little bit of an anomaly of the summer, too. It's been pretty excessive this year, given the fiber installations and everything. Yeah.

They should be done, I'm sure.

But they just put the flags up again like a week or so ago.

Yeah, a week or so ago.

What probably happened in that case is there was another utility damage, and they're going to have to continue to see what happened. So...

So I'm reading 20 days.

I was told 10 days before, but I'm reading 20 days here.

Well, so they even this last time put a white flag on that. Who's the gas company? Synergy? Synergy.

Center point.

Center point. With the red circles, center point, you know, beware of gas lines and stuff. So I have a white flag that wasn't ever put there before. So, you know, I just don't want my house blown up.

I hear you.

You know?

So Frank had discussions with one company about not going too far out.

earlier this year i don't know if that's the same company or not it is and we have had discussions several times with them and they agreed to not call in low case willy-nilly and then but the standards say that the contractor is supposed to be the one that makes the call so if the Contractor gets squished, which seems to happen a lot. That's what seems to make do with this a lot. What I've been telling folks around town is we're almost there. We're almost there. We're almost done with this thing. So, light flag means untoneable gas. They need to mark it in a special way because there's a type of name that is... And they've never put that flight before, so I guess it didn't matter before. If they're there for, say, three weeks, you should be able to pull it. Okay. If they need to re-mark it, they will do that. It's a real important step in that process. But if they're there for three weeks, I'd help them pull it.

Well, and like at my daughter's house, you know, the yellow flags were up and they still kept the, cut the gas line. So I don't know how much it really matters to him anyway, but it's the gas lines are concerned, you know, I don't care if they cut the cable, whatever, but the gas lines are, it is important. So, okay. Thanks guys. Thank you.

All right. Mr. Freeman.

Yeah.

Bruce Freeman, 880 Morris Landing Drive. My question is, do we have building standards for maintaining retention ponds as far as landscaping it, manicuring it, keeping the weeds down? I've been up to Tamarack, and supposedly the HOA president confronted one of the neighbors who was trying to weed-eat some of the supposedly aquatic plants. They're weeds. They are weeds. There's nothing watery about them a bit. Anyway, he said, well, we can't cut them down because they're natural plants. They're aquatic and this and that. Well, if they had the money, they would mow them. So my question is, because it butts up to the back of my property, it is their property, but still it's over the little embankment of mine. Can I legally cut them? Is it still HOA? It's still their property?

If it's not on your property, I don't believe you can go. Okay.

I mean, technically that's easement right there, isn't it?

Do what? That's the neighborhood easement, potentially. It wouldn't be Bruce's. Yeah, it's not Bruce's.

Well, anyway, the question is, because across from me, their people have already taken their – cut all those weeds down. I mean, there is no, like, erosion control.

They're rolling right into the lake or into the – What he's saying is on the Tamarack side of the retention pond, they are trimming them down. But on the Morse Landing side, they're not allowing anybody to trim them down, and they're not doing it because they say they don't have the money to do it.

I'm not aware of any landscaping standards for retention ponds.

So they could – Okay, so you could have an intense 100 yards of weeds around it.

I mean, we're talking about weeds that are approaching five feet tall in some places.

I still think that our lawn and weed stand uses... That's what I'm using for the lawn.

So that's eight inches, isn't it? It is.

Well, from a safety standpoint, they've got five or six four-by-four posts with life preserves on it.

Look, not only do we have that, but we kind of have a catch-all, too, for overgrowth and nuisances, so that if it's in violation, we could go out and take a look at that and issue an order that way, too.

Well, because these life preservers, if they let this thing grow, I mean, you're not going to be able to get to them. You know, it's a technical thing, but it's like, you know, for aesthetic views, we'd like to just knock it down. If they don't have the money to mow it, we have the time to cut it. So I'm assuming we'll probably have to go to their HOA meeting and bring it up and see if we can legally cut it down.

it's more of a ticky tack thing but i mean just you know statically if we cut it down and

Well, ultimately, it's going to increase the number of bugs. You don't know what critters are going to live in there. The geese won't land in our yard. That's correct. There's a potential for critters.

They're migrating to yards now. This is the only year they haven't mowed, and they don't have the money. I can appreciate that, but there's only about seven homes that really affect it. I don't know what it is beyond up on the north side. I'm just curious if we had any I don't think we'll have a legal flip to stand. I mean, that's probably go to the Rachel way and no, let's take care of it.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. So Aaron, you,

Thank you.

I have no more blue slips. Anybody have anything else?

I do. I just want to remind everyone the employee picnic Friday at noon at Community Park. Come hungry. All right. Anybody else?

Bring me a present. It is my birthday.

I won't be there.

Of course.

I, unfortunately, will be out of town on Friday. If we have nothing else, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second. Motion to second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?