Council - Regular Meeting

Time is now 7:00. The Cicero Town Council meeting is now in session. If you could all please rise saying the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God. indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Please remain standing, Miss Gary. Be back with me. Thank you, Father. Thank you for this day. Thank you for this opportunity to be together and take care of business for the town. I pray that you be with the council. Give them the knowledge and courage that it needs to make these big decisions for the town. It's in Jesus name I pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you all. Scar, if you can please take role.

I will. Joe Cox, Eric Hayden, Dennis Johnson, Jacob Evers, Emily Pearson, present. We have quorum with four members present. Uh moving along to the approval of agenda. We do have some additions to the agenda tonight. Um we need to add the ordinance for the bumpout seating. Um is that new business? That would be new. Aaron, yeah, I don't think that's been on the agenda. No. Okay. Do you want that number? Yes, please. 04-21. Say that again. I'm sorry. 04-21-206- 01.

Okay. Um, we also need to add I see Reynolds out there somewhere. Where here? He'll just be under There you go. He'll be under Keith Keith. Okay. Um, what else did we need to add? The You asked for an approval tonight on the TIFF. Even though you did that, you don't have to do it here. Oh, we did it in RDC meeting. Okay. I feel like we're missing something. Maybe we'll figure it out. Okay. As we either All right. All right. There's no other additions or amendments. I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended. So moved. De Mo Pearson. Second.

Motion a second. All in favor? I opposed. We have an agenda. Moving along to the approval of the prior minutes. Has everybody had an opportunity to review the minutes from April 7th, 2026? Any questions, revisions needed? If not, I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes as presented. So moved, Emily Pearson. Second. Check of effort. Motion a second. All in favor? I opposed. Minutes are good to go. Uh, moving along to the claims dated 42126. Has everybody had an opportunity to review the claims? So Rhonda, is it standard to use the card to get gas? What departments are using? I saw like four or five.

There's It was different. And don't worry, when Terry brought us in, I jumped his case. I said, "Well, no, I'm not I'm not talking specifically. There were multiple occurrences of it." Um, the pumps were out at the school. Okay. Um, that that's all I need to know. And Terry was so afraid when he brought his bill in. I said, "What the hell?" He said, "You go into Speedway." I was bone dry and the pumps were out. I had to do it. So, no, that makes sense because they were a cup and you never see any. He was this close to a free 64 ouncez fountain pop. You just need to put it on. I looked at the I I scanned that receipt very closely. He even wrote it on his receipt. The pumps were out. It's not just you, Chris. All right. Any uh any more questions on the claims?

If not, I'll entertain a motion to pay the claims as presented. So moved. Emily Pearson. Second. Motion a second. All in favor? I opposed. Pay the bills. Thank you. Moving along to council committee reports. I have nothing under EDC. Um, Mr. Freeman, good evening council. Stomark this time has nothing new to bring to the table. However, updates you once a board. Sounds good. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Moving along. Legal council report. Mr. Cole, the only thing I have is I wanted to see if the council had a feeling what it wanted to do in terms of the weight limits we discussed at the last meeting. Mr. Bryant uh send an email breaking down what those uh what some of the other communities would do. I found some sorry you know one of the things is you know I like that Caramel has they've lapped all their local roads into it and that way there's no um incentive for them to try to find a way to navigate through the other roads that aren't listed.

They've kind of covered all their roads and I think that seems to be in line with what the town was wanting. It's just a question of, you know, are we talking five ton, 10 ton, what do you guys want to do? Now, is this a discussion we're ready to have? We did ask the county to provide some alternative routes essentially that would be their preference. Yeah, I think we heard back from We haven't heard back from them. That's why I'm And I am fine if you want to delay this till after staff meeting. I just didn't want to I wanted to make sure we kept the ball. I would like to move forward. I mean, we've invested. We're getting ready to invest again. Okay.

I found some information today I'd like to show you. Um, and I want you to go through and verify this stuff, but it appears that 11,000 lbs is a really nice breaking point and it would make it easy for our police department to do some enforcement. So, I'd like to kind of show you what I found and see if we might consider that. You're talking about the distinction between Yeah. because there's different plates on those different, you know. So, I think I just I don't want to just pick some random number and then make it really hard for Jeff and his team to for Chief and his team to to and that would be one of my recommendations is we tie it to one of the classes and that way they know when they see the plate whether they meet it or not.

That that's what I was trying to do today. So, I'd like to show that to you and I know Eric, you're very interested. So, you guys can I'm not saying we have to do it this way, but that that's where my head went. I'm ready to move forward. I think we just need to get drawn up. That mean free to draw it up at 11. I'm fine. 11,000. That's that close. I'll show you what I found and if you if you find something better. I'm not married to it, but I was looking at the same thing and I was thinking 11,000. Okay. Well, I'll show you what I found and then if you can bring something back to us, I think we're ready for it. So, I guess so an empty tri. So, it would have a plate of 11,000 I'm assuming. Or is that plate for loaded?

I think they would be heavier than that. I think 11,000. when you're talking about pickup trucks and things of like a 5 ton 5 1/2 ton I mean a dump truck is well in excess of of that. Okay. So all dump trucks have to go Yeah. Unless it's for local business. Correct. And semis and Yeah. So somebody digging downtown Cicero they they're fine.

Yeah. But if it's if it's not local business the only road they'd be allowed to use 19 within Cisero. And some of the exceptions I found there's some stuff in state law which obviously it's just going to be you know we can't override that but this some agricultural exceptions public safety obviously so stuff like that I mean it's all very logical stuff. Yeah. All right, then I will do that. And I will also include in that same ordinance a provision establishing the 20-minute parking areas because as we discussed last month, I think one ordinance can insert that because we're amending the same area of the ordinance for both cases.

And we are going to go with a time restriction on those as far as during certain hours, right? Okay. Did you change that to 20 minute parking or is it 20 And other than that, I didn't have anything right now. We have more later. All right. So, you're we're good on legal counsel report. All right. Going back. I mean, is there a consensus on the 20 minute parking? Everybody feels those three additional spots. I guess spots

during what the hours of 10 and 5. Okay. It's during those hours only business heavy hours. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I felt like Hold on. Hold on. Now that brings up a point. If we're going to put one out here for dark side, that's an early morning business. So maybe we need to make this one a different hour range.

Dark side. Dark Sid's one of the I think being a business where a lot of pickups occurring that we maybe we make that one um second where these Dan can you refresh this I know there was one the hardware store in front of Nolan James and then the spot immediately in front of Dark Side okay those three so you certainly can make them all consistent you know was Some does open early as well. So call it 8 to 5. Sure. Does that work for everyone? Why in front of James?

That was just one adding for the businesses down just instead of putting them both in front of the hardware store. And we wanted to make sure that's on the other side of the road, right? Or two of them on the other side. No, just one. Just one. games, but then also designed a little bit around.

Yeah. And lost my train of thought, but uh Oh, we're essentially adding a spot to in front of the hardware store by removing that yellow. It sounds like Okay. Yep. We're good there. Yep. All right. All right. Moving along. Cisco Jackson Township Plan Commission report. Mr. Zodsky. Evening council. I have no updates. Okay. Uh, Mr. Strong, do you have anything? Not present. Okay. Do you have anything under special projects? No, sir. Unless you have questions on some of the things on the agenda. I don't have anything. Okay, sir. Moving along. Town engineering report. Mr. Bryant,

you know, we pass stuff out. Uh, this is just a bunch of stuff. Okay, we'll see. We'll see if we need it. Um, wastewater treatment plant Reynolds here. They continue to work on the oxidation ditch and clarify rehab, some piping, etc. So, we can get everything switched over and the old equipment and processes back online and hopefully get the project wrapped up. Uh, at the last uh meeting, we talked about pay their pay 21. So I don't know if it's on the agenda if you want to consider processing that at this point or we typically do it under you so we can do it now. Okay. Mr. Hayden, do you have any questions?

Lots of questions but you sure. Okay. Regarding pay 21. All right. I'll entertain a motion to approve pay application 21 in the amount of $414,473.71 of which 20723 73 is retained in related to we emailed up hangotion. Oh, I'm sorry. Slow down there, Mr. Hang. So moved. Have a motion. Do I have a second? Hang on. When did you send this one? I'm trying to find payout 21. Prior. It was last meeting. Yeah.

Oh, this is the one we Yeah, the the third maybe on April 3rd. Do we have the next pay app yet? Mhm. We have 22. No, we're here to talk about contingency. Okay, let me Hold on, Joe.

Do you have it, Jacob? I have it. I found it. Okay. I'll second the motion. All right. Motion a second. All in favor? I opposed. Let's get them paid.

Now you can continue to fire away. A few days ago, we sent uh Reynolds forwarded to us on April 15th the letters dated for potential or use of other contingency funds. Uh there's a lot of information there and I guess at this point I just ask Reynolds to come present that. We can have a discussion that if that's acceptable. Absolutely. Good evening. My name is

My name is John Cornelius. I'm the project manager for uh Reynolds for the wastewater treatment plant upgrade. So, as Keith mentioned, we sent in a letter um letting you know that we intend to use contingency. Um there was uh some additional we incurred additional costs since the last meeting uh due to un unforeseen for circumstances. Um we did sign up for a GMP. Uh so we want to live and uh abide by that. So we gave some concessions in addition to the uh money that we're asking for. So, we gave labor and rental zoned equipment concessions. I

mean, do you have a breakdown of that, John? It was, just bear with me. I'll look at the letter. The total letter um the contingency uh usage is around 169,000 and at the end of the letter we are stating that we're going to contribute about 220,000 to the project. that that's done because we own our own equipment and we can control the labor costs or at least what we're charging what we would bill for.

So after what you've contributed back Yes. So I could be transparent. I think you were here when we originally signed up for the model, weren't you? No.

No. Okay. Um, so out of this one, we brought in an extra or we meaning you guys, right? Brought in an extra concrete crew the first time to help. Yet, we're being charged overtime for their first first time being on site. And I and that I struggle with that a little bit, right? um myself and I am really having a hard time getting over the million dollars or the extra a million dollars over pro. I'm just throwing up numbers whatever that is about the the equipment pattern um or being roughly call it 30% additional time and we are at a million dollars over what what the budget anticipated. I am really really struggling with that line item specifically. Um I I don't I don't get it how it's about 30% yet it's double the cost. So we're saying we added equipment during that 30% and from from what was typically there for the 18 months prior for that 3mon period. Well, so I think a lot of the and I think I covered this in an email a few months ago. There was the overall the end date of the project. The last thing we were going to do was do the paving and the seating. that pretty much stayed the same, but a lot of the other tasks kept getting delayed and kept so the schedule moved to the right as a delay. So when we would have had some of the larger pieces of construction equipment demobilized

offsite at an earlier date, they continue to remain on site to do more work due to the different delays that we had, the different unforeseen conditions that we found. And the end date remained the same because it was based upon time of year because we weren't going to do the paving and the seating in January.

So, can you give me I don't mean to put you on the spot. Please don't take that. I mean, can you give me like a piece of equipment? We're talking about the bathing equipment was early and it just sat there. Would you charge for that or what? Because the amount of work is the same, right? It was we were delayed if we were delayed by roughly 3 months. Is that is that about approximate? No, there were two different things. The and the initial one is the initial contingency use last year was primarily due to site conditions that we found. So that's one thing. Yeah, but that was there's a specific line item for about a million dollars for equipment on site.

So, we were about a million dollars over for equipment on site. That that line I understand having to dig extra. I understand that that line of that makes complete sense to me. It's it's the project extending by how long is it? By roughly 3 months as an estimate call it 3 four months. I mean, yeah, it's actually if you look at the it's it's actually more than that.

If you look at the when originally some of the primary work was going to be done like the oxidation ditch 2 and clarifiers one and two, which is the existing equipment refurbishment that was going to be originally completed in fall. I'm going from memory. I haven't looked at the schedule, but now it's going to be completed roughly six months later. So, I'm hoping you can help me understand. I want to understand. I just and maybe it maybe you have to go back and look the original budget, let's call it 1.1 million for equipment use rate and now we're roughly at 2.1 million and I'm going off of memory maybe you know I I don't

it's closer to 1.7 was a little over a million. Now we're close to Okay. So, so almost double what we had anticipated and I am I understand the extension. I just really can't grasp that the same equipment had had to be used and I understand we're delayed a little bit and some delay so call it 30 40%. I I don't know double is where I'm struggling.

Well, the equipment doesn't just sit there on site obviously it's being used. So if we're, you know, and going back to the larger contingency usage last year, that was primarily due to additional underground interferences, things of that sort, unknown conditions, and so we were using the equipment while it was on site. It was not just sitting there. Well, we pay for it even if it's sitting there. But but I mean, that's not what was communicated earlier. What was communicated earlier was the project just extended and that's paying for that equipment being on site with it being with the project extended.

Terry or can you please if if I misread um the the statements coming back out of it. Please please correct me. Back last year there was some some discussion of additional equipment for back and things for existing high equipment work with so there was some of that discussion but double the amount of equipment on site is I mean that's where I struggle. It doesn't it doesn't sound like you have an answer for it and again I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Well, I go ahead. I

I was going to I'm trying to make sure I understand the question is what you're asking. Let's say there was and I'm just throwing out a number here. Let's say it was a million dollars of equipment on site for 12 months and the project was a million was a million and the project was extended by the schedule was expended 30%. So I had three months or whatever. Yeah. The amount is doubling versus paralleling. That's correct. Okay. I just Well, it feels like it should be appropriated amount off of the original schedule cost is what the question.

It's not the I you again you have to look at the when that those particular pieces of machinery were able to be removed and demol or demote from site. So if we were done with most of the heavy construction, if we were slotted to be done in fall as an example, and now we still have some of those heavy pieces of construction on site right now due to as I mentioned earlier the unknown site conditions and then challenges that we had last year. That would be roughly when we mobilize July or August of 2024. So it's roughly 50% more time spent just for just for the primary construction activities. I can have an additional sidebar conversation about, you know, how we, you know, our equipment usage and things of that sort. I mean, we have different philosophies. I'd also like to point out that the construction equipment is not all rental equipment.

Roughly 20% of it was rented. understand that if it's rented and you pay for it beingcome comfortable with it. It just doesn't seem correct to me. I mean it's it's the way it was sold during the bot discussion is and and the grip the extradicting I completely understand that's unforeseen and that that is I'm going to call it legitimate. These are probably all legitimate cost in in my mind that that's a reasonable cost. Um yeah I the data to date I I not don't how it doubled. But

I I I am I'm struggling to understand that too and I'm sure there's a logical explanation and I guess maybe part of it is I don't ask the question properly. So thank you for coming and trying to Can somebody tell me the original contract amount without the contingency? Are you talking about just on the construction equipment or you talking about this? No, the whole thing 192 wasn't it? And 192 is with contingency.

Okay. So to get this project done, what if it cost 19.3? That's where the GMP comes into play is my understanding. Right. Well, they're saying they'll stay at the 19.2 continue to absorb additional cost until the project's finished. I'm asking contractually. It's 192. It's 192. So if it cost you 20, you have to finish the project unless we had change orders. Yeah. Unless there's change orders.

So I just I don't view I just think it's a little bit in disingenuous to say you're giving us this $200,000 back because like that's just money you can't collect anyway. Well, we've had some change orders. No, that's not what I'm arguing about. I I I just have so none of this like the project's late, the project's over budget. Like what what are we supposed to say?

Well, it's not I'm not I'm not defending anybody or not. Right. So going into this, the budget is set at 192. There was a significant belief that it would come in under. So the granular the extra digging in that work, whatever that was, call it 200 250 or 400, that's to me that's a reasonable expense. Doubling equipment use from one to two million. Again, I'm just talking rough numbers. I have a little bit of heart burn with. So, um, we we did this hoping we could get some money back. All along the plan was for 192, but

Do you have a response to my question, though? I mean, it's it's late and it's over budget. Like, what are we how are we supposed to react to that? Well, there's been delays that were out of our control. We're finding conditions on site that are, you know, were unknown. Um, that's affected our schedule. It's affected our productivity. There's no nothing from the crowd, please. Yeah. I don't

I'd also like to point out that we had, you know, of the contingency being used, there's roughly 25% of it that was added that we allowed contractually to be added because those items by contract could be a change order,

right? I agree with that. Thank you for working with us. I I don't know that I'm going to get to I mean, like I said, my big heartburn is with the equipment out here. I don't know that I'm going to get to where I'm happy, but I mean, we're we're close, right? And that that top number is there. Um we we're hoping to have some of that back. Um but it looks like we're close. Any uh completion date is when Uh we're still looking at a completion date of I think we've talked about June most recently. and that you June would be punch list items and things of that sort,

right? We hope to do the paving prior to that. All right. I don't have anything else. I mean, I appreciate you coming in and trying to help me explain. We did get a little bit different information this time, so I appreciate that. So, thank you. Thank you. All right. I appreciate you coming in and helping. Try to explain to me on Thank you.

Move along. Move along.

2024 CCMG. That's the West Jackson project. Uh it's they did tear out concrete curb and sidewalk in front of Jimmy's. Poured it again last Friday. Looks looks really good. So I think we're good there. U the only thing I know of on their punch list that they still have to do are the uh ADA markings and the in inverted blue lines they painted down here. They had sent an email they were going to try to do that. Their sub was going to do that last week, but I'm I'm going to check. They did not reply to me today, but uh I'm guessing just because of the temperature swings that they didn't do it. So, they're gonna they're going to do it. They just haven't done it yet. So, we did get the package assembled. Rhonda submitted it to INDOT. So, u ahead ahead of schedule. So, so hope hopefully, you know, if they have any questions, I end being the the grant administrator, they'll let us know. We should be good as far as close out on that. And of course, we still have 12-month warranty as well.

I did get a response that she sent a letter that she closed out. Oh, awesome. Man, that was fast. I've been so confused. There's a grant for 24, 25, 26.

It's easy to get them and two of them are in Jackson Street, so it's easy to get real easy to get them confused. Uh if no questions on that, the 2026 CMG, which is the East Jackson Street projects from Jackson Street, the east side of Peru, of course, out to the corporate limits. We have a pre-construction meetings uh for that project with the Howard companies at 2:00 on tomorrow here. So Keith, before I ask you this, how how long or do we know how long traffic will be affected? like will it be completely shut down for a period or they

they're not allowed to shut it down completely. They have to keep a lane open and mill in separate phases and paves and have flaggers and get people through. So they have to keep everybody open. I mean it it'll probably back up some during that period, but they initially thought it'd take them a week or so to do it. I think that's probably a little optimistic, but Okay. But it might only it's not going to be anything like here. I mean the the paving will take two or two three weeks to mill and pave at the most.

Okay. They do have some a little bit of piping work to do and a few other little things before they do that, but we we'll have a better idea of their schedule tomorrow, but that's roughly. Morris Landing Drive, the storm water board project that Bruce mentioned. Uh we did have a pre-count on that. Uh the contractor on that also LB plans to begin this week. Uh just FYI, we had a meeting with Frontier SLVerizon in that they were going to hold off on doing any work in that project area until after we were done and they somehow forgot and they got they did about a third of it or 25% of it. And of course, our contractor saying that's in their way and going to cost money. Long story short, a lot of going back and forth. Uh the Verizon contractor was supposed to be out and and tear basically take out what they put in to get it out of the way and then we're then they're going to come back prison again.

So I had a call about an upset person with them tearing up the yard when they put it in and tearing up the yard when they took it out and now they're going to put it back in again. Well, but this is actually on the opposite side of the road. Oh, so it wasn't? Yeah. So they're tearing up the opposite side of the road. So they pulled out the other side too. Yeah. So they the boxes are on the east side as you're driving in more to the left side of the road. The drainage is on the right side of the road. Yet they're pouring boxes up on the east side. But there were some hands some small boxes on the west side as well.

I don't know. Maybe there was. I believe you might drive through there or I can give you a call when I drive through there because I was told they were tearing them up on the opposite side as well. And that you know if they're going to redrill it they they may have decided to do that that maybe they need to do that to Okay. So we'll just leave it then. Okay. Yeah. Our contractor supposed to get back with us but he wanted 15 or $20,000 just to dig it out and we told him that's not going to happen. And then we got Verizon's contractor said, "Okay, we'll go out and tear tear out what we can to get out of their way to save us $20,000 a claim from our contractor." So, this is the first time I've heard Verizon in this. It's always been Frontier. I take it this is a joint.

My understanding is they own them. Oh, they own them. They merged somehow or were bought or something. So, I may misspoke, but that I've seen I've seen combinations of both and correspondence. Okay. I haven't heard anybody mention Verizon. Oh, really? Maybe I'm just making it. I saw one of their trucks and I think it said like under Frontier it said Verizon or something. That's right. I've seen some There must be some relationship. Keith, was that 40K or 20K? I thought they were going to come back, but 20 20. Thank you.

We disputed that and said, well, you know, they they said all you got to do is dig it out of the way. And they they they were adamant they wanted more money. So ultimately we we got to this conclusion. I'm done with my computer. All right, that makes sense. Thank you.

2027 CCMG scoping. I uh on the 19th I emailed up. We kind of looked at continuing from um Pearl out to basically out to the restaurant and on the north side of the condos with walk and walk and and lighting as well as then milling and repaving out all to the east side of the D bridge which I think is a scope we all wanted. So we put numbers to it based upon past bids etc and sent that sent that up. And I mean bas basically at some point in time we we've got to decide on the scope of that sometime relatively soon because again as we talked before if they have a July opening for applications that's the intent and that's that's what we know at this point. If we wait till July to survey and start design we won't meet their now compressed time frame. So we we'll lose the grant. So I mean if we're going to proceed we have to p get started. So which means first first step is to decide on the scope because we can't figure out how much it's going to cost to survey and put the bid documents together until we know what the scope of work is. So that's that's why we did this to try to get started through that process. So did anybody have any questions? And I don't know if you want to get in a lot of detail on that tonight. I don't know if you even had time to

I just had a quick question Keith. There was two drawings that were sent. I think one was old, right? Yeah. The one drawn just showed the intersection that was kind of from we had done a study years and years ago and had actually submitted to no twice to try to get financed and that kind of showed the the handicap areas a little better than my other sketch which is a lot lot you sketch has all the arrows all over it. Is that is that the new one? Okay. Yeah. So that has I just want to confirm that has a elevated pedestrian crossing on both sides. Both sides.

Okay. And one thing we could look at doing to save some money is just to do one. I mean, we could do the one east of Main Street and not do the other one. The thing about it though is the way the numbers shake out, assuming our assuming our estimates are right. We're going to we we're going to lose only gain 20% of that from a town. Yeah. because because the grant if the if we want to use those which we can debate I'd like I'd like to have them both because it's just elevated then it goes back down to grade it's not elevated through that whole section right it's just it's no ju just the crosswalk right yeah okay and there's kind of landing in the middle and there are breaking lights and push buttons on each side so you

yeah we can debate if that's the right solution or not I just if we're going to do those I like them on both east and west personally my home. Now that the difference another difference and I've got some boxes I added those boxes, you'll see that you know they were we were going to improve the radi on those on that old drawing there Eric. Yeah. So you see the radi on the turning are better there where we can't do that unless the poles are removed and the pole movement and you know that's if we're going to do that we could do that but we we'll wait till we'll have to wait till next year to submit to CCMG because we'll never get it done in the time frame they'll never get the poles moved and it'll be more money. Where are the polls at? Is the poll here?

They're pretty close in there. Yeah. What about on this side? There's one right there too. Guywire's right there. you drive by, you'll see there's quite a quite a bit of things in the way. It'd be nice to get those radiuses improved, but if we're going to do that for this round, I don't think we can get it Well, I know we can't get it done, but just because it's a private utility and there's probably three utilities on that poll or those polls.

So, I know this will be a discussion. You guys happy with this? it. To me, something safety-wise is a big priority. Whether or not it's these raised crosswalks or what, I don't know what the right answer is. But if we're going to do this project, I want us to do something safety wise. Well, west and east are the only raised um going right north, the north and the south on Main Street are not correct. So, you got a stop sign there, right? Those are stop signs. Yes, there are. So yeah, it's just raised and with the crossing the lights and the push buttons on the non-stop traffic east west.

And you will have additional sidewalks for people to walk on too as part of this project. Right in front of Scott, right?

Yeah. On north side of the condos and there'd be three new lights on the north side there. In the estimate, we factored in replacing all the street lights. You know, of course, from can't see it on this drawing bill, not all drawn all the way from Maine over to Pearl to match what what we got now and you know, the same walk widths. I can tell you when we get to in front of the restaurant there, it's going to be really tight. I'm not sure we'll be able to get full 8ft walks, but it's we're going to have to get it surveyed and see what all is in there because again, the there's power poles and other things in the way there. I'm not sure we'll be able to widen the walk dramatically. Where are you talking about? In the in the parking lot right there. Just on the south side, but west west of Main Street.

That section right there. No, on the south side of the road. I think on the north side we'll be able to do it. I'm more concerned on the south side here. There's a bunch of power poles in there. Again, this drawing is, you know, if we had a perfect clean slate and the power poles were moved and all that was buried, that's but that's not going to be the case. There's a concrete drainage ditch in there as well. And some it is. I think you can do but there's I'll tell you later. Oh yeah, I think it's on the southeast side. There's a fire hydrant. I think that'll have to be moved as well.

Force people to cross there and keep them try to keep them from crossing at the intersection. Make it safe. I the aesthetic of the elevated crosswalk. I I wasn't Yeah, that like Vegas style versus just drive over and we're talking a speed. Yeah. Yeah. supposed to calm traffic and if you go drive when Chuck A or Chad Amos was on the board, you know, he of course works in Caramel and he pointed out several and we went down and looked at them and that was just kind of scoping at that point in time and I think everybody thought that that would work well and it it does work. But

I mean the only thing that I question is the crossing main street and do you force it south and west one or two car links back and then you could put lights there as well. Right. So you're not crossing right at that intersection as people are coming in. I don't know. I'm not a No, put put what he has up. He doesn't have them at the intersection. They're right here. Yeah, that's the intersection. It is deceiving. Is that the old drawing? No, this was this was That is the old drawing, but we would still have crossings right there. But they're not. They're just They're just Do you have this one? They're just marked. Yeah, it's right here. See where his blue ones are? See how they're how far back they are from the intersection?

That's your crosswatch, right? Those block bright blue. This Yeah. And if you go back to the other drawing. So, you're saying you want them closer to the intersection? No, those are perfect. He's talking about the north south ones, aren't you? Oh, the north south. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the east west. I'm sorry. Yeah, push them away from the intersection. Yeah, I I don't know. I agree. Problem is you start pushing them back and then you don't have your stop bar where you need for traffic and then they can't see traffic coming out. So, you're I'm not sure. You may create a safety issue from from that point, but that's I mean, we can look at that, but that'd be my initial concern. You stop.

So, when do we have to start making firm decisions on all this one for 27? I mean, the reality is we need to get out there. We get a task order signed once we know the scope. We have to figure that out and then we need to be out there surveying and designing in May because we need to be ready if at all possible to bid by the time we'd find out in July or August that we have the grant because then we're down to 90 days when you're notified you have the grant that you have to have successful bids and contract signs with the contractor. So that they really pinch that window. Basically they basically they don't want you to wait until after if you get to grant to do the design. They want you to incur the cost before. I mean that's the only explanation I can come up with which is unfortunate but

if they make the decision at the next meeting will that be time or do you need a decision before the next meeting? I think we can decide at the next meeting what the scope of work is generally that would give us enough time. Then we can pull the task order together before the next meeting get started. R, can you make sure that's on the agenda, please, for the first meeting in May? Say you need the task order now or No, see, I can't put a task order together until we determine we all agree with the scope of work because I I otherwise I'm just guessing at what we're doing. So, I don't I don't want to it's not fair for either one of us to do that.

Keith, real quick, we have replace eight street lights and then we have replace four. Why are we doing that? The ones uh to the east go all the way over to Pearl and there's still the old ones. And so to match to put in new foundations and match what we did on the other phase and continue that that's those eight. Okay. Then we don't have three on the north side. There's nothing there. And then the So there's And then there's three or four on the south side. just because I I and if we survey them, maybe we can save money and not do those, but I'm afraid based on looking at power poles and the lights that if we don't move some of those, we're not going to w be able to widen the walk.

I It's not a huge item. I was just kind of curious. So, and you're saying just to make sure I'm clear, because we're pinched on time, we're not going to be able to round these corners like this. No, you're have to move power poles first. And that's a I mean it took us a year and a half to get these two little poles out here and there's a lot more hanging on those poles than there. So I know when we initially talked to Duke they were $150,000 to move the poles but that doesn't include the other utilities that are hanging on the poles. So then essentially it stays as blue line.

Correct. I mean, we'll survey it and we might be able to we're going to move the hydrant on that side. So, there there's a chance we might be able to improve it some, but it won't it won't be to that magnitude. What if we apply for this in whatever late summer? When do we find out if we got it? Well, there's no hard schedule right now. There's no hard schedule that they're even going to do it in July, but that's what they had anticipated doing last year. That's what they claimed every year from now on in July.

So, I spoke to INDOT and INDOT does not have definite timelines as far as when they're going to announce the grant and then also as far as when they're going to award it. So, more to come on that, but you know, the it may the cycle from July to September this year, but they've not made any decision on that. So, unfortunately, in this particular case, we have to plan on July in case they don't move it. But then also, they've not announced when they dates at this. Can you just give me some historical context from the time we apply to the time we find out? Is it 90 days? Is it 6 months? It's usually about 60 90

But the last one was quicker than that. It was like a 30 days right between Christmas and New Year's or something as I recall right in the holidays. Yeah. So, okay. But moving forward, Mr. Brian said it'll be on the July cycle starting in 2027. Moving forward from there, it is 8020 with a million dollar max grant where they're at now. Do we have money to spend on this. I'll find it,

right? And obviously there's some water main components in that cost estimate to look at. That's we can talk about, but there's discussion if we ever going to extend water over that side and run a larger line, do we want to tear the pavement up later? So that's something else we have to decide as well. Thought was we could put a dry line in there and be ready for it not tear up the pavement, but you know, you're also a lot of money. So that could be paid for with future water bonds, but so but it's still a lot of money.

So So really, if you were to do that, it's we're sitting at roughly 1 2 1.15 to 1.2. No, you're 1.74 without water. That's an So that's 7 40k for the town plus another 420. So 1.2. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. That's what you were talking about. Yeah, you're correct.

Again, these are estimates. I think they're conservative estimates based upon prior numbers. So, but it doesn't behoove us to go into a grant application with low numbers cuz if we go in there at 800,000 instead of the million dollar grant, that's what we're going to get. And if it bids higher than that, then it's 100% us. So, so historically, that's what we've had to be a little try to be high on the estimates as much as we can predict. engineering room. So those other discussions this really wouldn't impact much.

I don't know. I would think we would have to come up with half a million dollars. Sounds to me like this is better served the first meeting of May. Do a little leg work. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And if in the meantime, if anybody has any questions, feel free to reach out. The only other thing I was going to bring up is that task order on the elevated tank survey. I don't know if you guys want to look at that or talk about tonight. I have talked to Dennis about it. Personally, being the dentist has done a lot of the leg work on it, probably be a better discussion for when he's here.

But he's not going to be here this meeting or or the next meeting. Yeah, you're right. I did. Just FYI, I mean, if you want to delay it, that's fine. It's no issue with me. It just kind of delays the whole project at some point in time. I don't I did talk to him and I'm actually his words to me was, "Oh, okay. I don't have an issue with that now because I explained to him what was included." Okay. Okay. He initially thought it included just the survey work, but if you look at the task order, it includes some cost estimates, some engineering, some evaluation. I saw that communication, but he didn't he did not realize that was in there. So, yeah, I I'm good. What was the amount again? Like 12 125. Yeah. $12,500.

Where are we going to take it from? Water. Yeah. Water improvement. I'll make a motion to approve the elevated tank survey and elevation evaluation task order from United in the amount of 12,500. I'll second motion and a second. All in favor? Opposed? Let's get her done.

So, just for the audience, um he's measuring water tower heights um because there may be a little belief that they might not be even and that reduc can reduce pressure. So for any future work we have to understand what that is. That's what that that's what this is for. My water pressure is great. My neighbor's terrible. Well, if we do anything, we're going to improve the pressure. Not

That's all I had. Was there any questions or uh just point of clarification, I looked it up and as of the end of January, Verizon did acquire Frontier. Oh, fine. That makes sense. I didn't just dream that. No. All right. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Thank you. All right. Moving along to old business bike racks. Set my full on.

So, essentially when we did the uh the Jackson Street improvement, the bike racks with the exception of the one in front of the hardware store removed. Um, since then there's been a few inquiries uh about the replacement of bike racks. So, we've been having some discussions on that and if we were to put them back, where would we put them? Um, again, there's already one in front of the hardware store. It's starting to rust at the bottom. But from an accessibility standpoint, my feeling is if we don't put bike racks out there, people are going to be locking their bikes to the light poles, to the fencing out there. It's going to cause scrapes on that those painted surfaces. So, I think we need to have something from an accessibility standpoint. It's a matter of where

the one you said there's one in front of the harvest store. Now, there is one towards the garden center. Yes. Is it ours? Yeah. And it does get used. I never see it, but I mean I believe she tried to make me take a picture of it the other day for you. It's like I'm not going to do that to Eric. He'll take my word for it. I mean, I do, but I don't believe it use marks from that. So, these are what we're talking about.

And basically, if we reused what we already have, those are what they were look they would look like. There all are alternatives out there that have a smaller footprint that would accomplish the same thing. They basically would accomp accommodate a bike on each side. So my perspective is we do not want to clutter that main thoroughare with bikes sitting there. I would be more in support of doing it on the side streets even if they're a little farther away. When you're biking, you're exercising. It doesn't hurt to walk a few blocks. Sure. It's not really even a few blocks. It's less than a block.

10 blocks. No, I'm saying less than a It's It's less than a block in most cases. So, we just spent a fortune on downtown and I don't think that we should clutter it up. Wait, is that one there already? No, the these are not there. They just had one and they just Oh, you said it there. Okay. Cuz I I saw the fencing and I was like, I don't remember that being out there. But So, the one that's there is right right there. This is what's there today. Y and that was there because we did tear out that sidewalk. That's right.

I'll put it back on.

I mean, if we were to put another one in front of Sullivans, that's going to cover most of downtown just on the opposite end of where it's at. Why would you do that? It's already there. I'm talking about the opposite end basically where it's sitting right there. Leave. Why? Why would you have two close such close proximity? We don't have to. I'm just If you don't want to clutter up downtown in multiple areas, just isolate it to one area and let people walk a little bit. People want it, they can lock their bike there. All the way down there.

Yep. We just said you're biking. You're already doing exercise and block. So, we're going to create an accessible downtown with ADA compliant parking and ramps and everything and then take mobility pieces away. I go with my bike right there. Or if it's not you, somebody's going to tie it to our brand new painted fences out there and get them all scuffed up and clutter up and look worse. So, then a proposal would be that take a take a parking spot from right here, not use these. Get a real bike rack, a different bike rack and put it in that parking spot.

I'm not going to agree to take any more parking. I am not for cluttering downtown. I'd like to hear from any comments from the pro, please. What about the bumpouts on the south side where the parking I know what you're talking about. Huh? I know what you're talking about. Yeah, the the problem is the fencing that's over there. I'm sure they want We don't want them parking inside the fence though. It's just potential

thing is is the beastro is never going to use that because they have their own and I don't know what the purpose of the one on the east side is because there's there's no restaurant. So there's no restaurant today. You don't know what tomorrow brings. So, we want to have a bike rack right in the middle of that nice area. You know, it could be 20 years before there's a restaurant there. So, I mean, I just think it be a useful source for that slab of concrete that's just there not being used. I mean, I'd rather see them on the side streets. I don't necessarily And then that would be the side street.

No, I know. I'm just talking about within that fenced area. I don't we can't take the fence down. Not now. Any other comments? Yes, ma'am. I have seen bikes with their bike locks around the light poles. Um I've seen this several times when we've driven through town. So, I do know that they will lock them to the light poles. And I wouldn't want to clutter the whole downtown with a whole bunch of those. But maybe two on one side, two on the other side.

Area that people would hop off and go in and see what was going on. I think would be beneficial. And if you don't like the looks of those, they make really nice looking bike. But I mean, there's one small footprint, single pole coming up, round basically place that you lock the bike to, one on each side, and it's aesthetically pleasing. Doesn't take up the same footprint. I I think that people will lock their bikes to light. I agree. Where you put them is up to you.

And we don't have to make this decision tonight. I mean, I know they did some leg work on where we could potentially put them, but we can also go out and do our own and come up with our own ideas here for a future meeting. Perfect. Is that fair? I I know you're never going to agree with this. You're still going to be on council when this happens. Oh, all right. Good for that discussion tonight then. And Jim, we've got to have some place to hook up for people to lock up all these ebikes, right? You what? He doesn't lock his bike up, though. Yeah, I ride my bike.

Okay, moving along. New business. Ebikes and scooters. Who's leading this discussion? I I believe Miss is pursuant to a letter from Miss Unger. So, I would propose we let her begin. Start with let the comments by citizens. Miss you, you'd like to Well, you know the drill. You've been here for a few of these. Create the drill.

Well, I appreciate you letting me address this. I think that you all have a copy of my letter. If you don't and you would like a copy of it, um, of my memo, I'll be happy to give you a copy of it. Um, I I sent this out in February, the end of February. I was hoping it would move along a little faster than it did. It hasn't. School's going to be out in a month. I'm going to get run over on the causeway. So is my dog. But honestly, the low they're just going too fast. I mean, the bikes literally go faster than the cars on Jackson Street. And they don't let you know that they're there coming up behind you. You can't keep a look behind you all the time. And the causeway is my main issue, okay? Because I walk on that causeway probably four, five times a week with my dog. And when school's out, I know these bikes are going to be going crazy. But um I think they're also going too fast. Some of the kids are too young. They don't have helmets on. I've seen him cross in 19 just zipping across down at the gas stations. Two kids on a bike that was like this tall. I know that you're looking into research for this and I understand that. Um bikes at night are a definite problem whether they're ebikes or regular bikes. I almost hit a kid on a low profile bike. It was very low three-wheeler talking

and um it I didn't see him. He was so close behind the car in front of me when I pulled out the coral court on Mors Landing. I didn't see him and everybody in my car started screaming. And so I have a picture of that if you're interested. My people in my car did. But you know they go faster than golf carts. We're requiring license from golf carts and yet these bikes go faster. I know there's regulations that you have to deal with. Um I hope that you can get something done. Uh Mr. Cop told me that you were um looking at Fiser's ordinance, I believe, and I would love to have a copy of that if it's possible. But I appreciate your consideration on this. I think it's definitely an issue and uh thank you for taking the time.

Absolutely. And just to comment on that a little bit, we have been looking over this for a little bit of time now and it looks like other communities, and correct me if I'm wrong here, have essentially given different classifications to different types of vehicles for all intents and purposes. The Indiana code treats them differently. For example, even though they seem similar, a bike with a motor but has pedals is a unique classification different from one that doesn't have pedals. So, we can address the one without pedals, correct? Yes. But I al we can also address the one with pedals. Okay.

Um I've looked at this some more and there is a provision that will let us adopt an ordinance for the one with the pedals. uh the Fisers ordinance and the council doesn't yet have that. Um uh Chief Rednau shared that with me today. Fischers just introduced that uh earlier this week, but it goes through and it it addresses every one of these as well as this the scooters that are motorized and it spells out areas where they can and cannot be operated and other rules that go behind how they must be operated. And I think it's kind of a good idea to start, but you can also we can send you copies of what Caramel's done. Caramel's done it differently. Um, you know, and so if if the concern is getting them off the the sidewalks or if you only want to get certain classes because certain classes of the ebikes can go faster than others. Um, but there are different things we can do. What what I would suggest is we can get to the council copies of some of these different ordinances and set the stage for a you to be able to review those ahead of the staff meeting and then to have a discussion um with with the chief kind of making some recommendations and answering questions and then whatever the decision is, we can then put together an ordinance to be um proposed in theory at the following meeting if there's enough time. It it'll depend on how how specific we get and how we want to set that up.

Part of the challenge with the causeway is you ban them on the causeway, it puts them on the street going across the bridge. M. Sure. Um the causeway was put there specifically when we have an accident of bicycle turning into Morris landing off of Jackson Street. That was one of our big issues is bicycles on that causeway. And frankly, I don't care if they're on the causeway. I just don't want them going 30 miles an hour. Absolutely. So, if we could just get a speed limit on that causeway, that would be helpful. One of the things we've discussed is even requiring them to walk their vehicles across the causeway so that there's no riding.

That would make me happy. So, would that would that apply to motorized and non-motorized bicycles? We could distinguish if we wanted to pedals or you might decide that you just want all bicycles walked across there. That's up to you guys. Yeah, scooters would follow.

Kind of what Fisers did was they identified all the distinctions under the statutes and then spelled out how they were treated, what type of path they are and aren't allowed on, and what sort of rules apply to them based upon their classification. Well, I felt like this was an issue for a while and I think a couple weeks ago as I was driving my car across the bridge, I was being outstripped by a ebike or scooter on the causeway. I mean, they were going faster than the speed limit. So, that kind of told me like we we have to we have to deal with this. And I also think the quantity of these things this summer is just going to it's going to be off the charts. So,

I'm very supportive of putting something in place. I do think it's challenging cuz they're kind of dangerous on the road. They're dangerous on the sidewalk. We're going to figure that out, but I think we have to do something. Well, I think you're seeing a lot more of these ebikes and those aren't road worthy. So, I think those are some of the fast ones that don't have pedals. That that's I think that's a growing problem. Mhm. Well, and one of the challenges is is most of these you don't have to have a driver's license, which means people 15 and younger, depending on what it is, can ride.

I mean, based on how it is now, what's stopping somebody from going across with it? You remember the old scooters? You know, there's really nothing that keeps those off there either. But that that little bike you're talking about is a constant thing everywhere. This bike have a flag or anything on it. I think it's the same one all over town. Kids over in Tamar. That's the one.

All right. So, we've got We got our plan. Yeah. All right. Did you have anything else on that, Jim? No. that I mean he read my comments so sure we and we'll continue to work on it and get a hold of that ordinance and try to expedite this thing because it it it is recognized. It is a problem.

All right, moving along. Bumpout ordinance 04-21-2026-01. Um essentially what this is, we put this outdoor seating in um or these bumpouts in and we'll use Broncos as an example. Broncos is going to serve food outdoors and it's a situation they would where they would like to also be able to serve beer outdoors. Um we're not yet to the point that we have DORA approved downtown. So to allow them to do that we we're having to create a separate ordinance and that's what this discussion centers around. Um so it would be contained to essentially um the seating area but there are further restrictions on that town property and letting the independent business businesses adjacent use that town property.

Yeah. Yeah. And it it sets forth requirements that they name us as an additional insured that they leave the ADA access so that a person in a wheelchair can get by and things like that. It also spells out uh design standards for tables and chairs. Now, one thing that I was talking about earlier today with Mr. Strong, um, uh, what's the roers? Dark Side Roers. Dark Side Roers is using some benches, which we don't include here. If we want to include those, we can amend that to include those, permitting those because currently, as you read our ordinance, it doesn't permit that in that area. They're our benches or theirs.

They're their benches. And I don't think anyone has a concern about the aesthetics and they meet all the other requirements. It's just that if we're going to allow that, I would suggest that we amend the ordinance and we could either put a pause on it tonight or if you want to adopt it tonight, we could come back with we would basically be amending the design standard to include a bench and we could do that in two weeks when we have our next meeting. Me personally, being that we're already coming up on May 1st and the activities and the weather's changing, I'd like to get it done tonight if we could and we can amend it later. Can we just do a verbal amendment for your

Yeah, I mean, we could amend it to allow benches um with your Yeah. I'll make that motion. Hold on a second. Dan, you said you you had spoken to the owner of Broncos about the tables outside. Are there current tables that she just bought to replace the original ones in compliance with this ordinance? So the So yes, so she fixed the issue of what she was concerned about changing the table design because I think it's a 36 inch length on the Yes. rectangles. I stepped it off today 36 in.

Okay. So when we originally put the ordinance together, if you remember correctly, we were looking at tables and chairs, but that's be known to us and all of a sudden the the benches appear and we were like, well, we're going to need to address that if we want to keep those, you know, allow the benches because currently it's not spec our current. Okay. But it still has to comply with the aesthetics and with keeping the pathway and all the other stuff. That is correct. That would not change. stated in the ordinance that we add benches and then we probably in the permitting process would add a picture of a bench of what that might look like.

And the feeling was a bench makes sense because you know for a coffee shop they're not having people sitting down with a plate and eating a meal like that. And so you could see why that made more sense for them than some of the other people. And the width of the bench does meet the ordinance. is just the slided seat that sort of changes the whole perception of what the table looks like and the original design. So, sure. Okay. All right. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I think we're good. Everybody good?

I'll make a motion to approve bumpout sitting at 421206-1 with the addition of benches per Aaron and Mr. Strong's details. I'll second motion a second. All in favor? I opposed. Good to go there. Thank you all. Moving along to miscellaneous, which we have nothing. Were we supposed to do something about Do we have to do that tonight? Maybe I just have that. No, the trail dedicate. It's okay. That's what you're talking about, right? The trail dedication. I don't think we need any. Okay. Okay. All right.

Mention that the next meeting just so people know. Sure. Okay. Right now, are we set on the 16th for that? Yes or I sent that out today for clarification. But then we'll wait till the next particular meeting. We'll wait till the next meeting and make official announcement on that. Then I'm not be there. That's fine. I'll be there. Okay. Moving along. Comments by citizens. We've already addressed Miss Anger. So, Mr. Northcut. All right. My name is Mike Northcut. Appreciate you squeezing me in tonight on such short notice. Thank you for

What's your address? 120 Morris Landing Drive. Actually, pass both.

So, I am trying to get a fence installed. We back up to the cemetery. Um, everybody else I'm trying to put my fence where it aligns with everybody else's fence, but that is in the drainage. So, that would require me moving my fence in the back up 20 ft, which then would intersect my shed. So, then I'd really have to move the fence up further and my shed would be outside of my property. Um, there's not a neighborhood, like I said, behind us. We're not backing up to anybody else where they could also encroach in the easement and make the easement non-existent. So, I'm looking for some sort of amendment possibly to let me put the fence in the eastment and align it with my neighbors. There's already in my yard a section of fence in that spot.

So, your neighbors were their fence to align it with your neighbor's fence. Does the easement taper in? So theirs isn't within the easement. No, they're in the easement. They're in the ement. Yeah. I'm very familiar with this easement. It runs. It's very big. The full length of Morcing Drive, including behind my house. So I I I know you're paying. And that's any lines in there. Yeah. No, it's just it's just drain. All our utilities are in the front.

And I'm more than willing to make any sort of compromise that I can. I'm just trying not to cut my backyard in half and then have my shed outside. We're trying to put an above ground pool in and trying to meet that code by putting in the privacy fence because of the above ground pool, right? Um, but my plan is to put two 5-ft gates in the back. So, it' be a 10-ft opening for access. I'm willing I think my email was forward over. I'm willing to sign paperwork for liability. Like if there is a reason the fence needs to come down, I'll eat that cost. I'm not trying to put that on anybody else.

Has the pool been approved yet? It has not. I just submitted that last week for the pool.

Mr. Hunter has a question. or anything. I have a plot plan. Oh, we have pictures, too. That's what I'm looking for. I I thought we did. I just can't find them.

I am not a drain expert by any means. But where the fence is, I really don't see that I'm in any sort of slope where I would be interfering with any sort of drainage. I'm also willing to have my fence up higher a little bit in the back if there's something we could decide on to make sure if there is a lot of water coming through where I'm not collecting and blocking anything with my fence. But that is where I do kind of also worry about the property value situation too. If I am to put a fence in 20 ft and then there's multiple neighbors around me that have their fence out. If I ever went to resell, that is the photo I shared. Don't mind the wood. that I've had to have tree stumps moved trying to get all this under order. But that is where the 20 foot line would hit is right there in the middle of my barn doors.

GI from that's my neighbor's uh basketball court that is out further than anybody's fence. Even those trees are technically in this easement. I mean, I'm not been sitting in here. I've listened to everything else. You guys are dealing with really big stuff. This seems very minor. I'm sorry to to bring this up, but I also It is my house and I just want to make sure informed decisions being made. I don't apologize. There's no need to apologize. We actually have a conversation about this easement probably once a year. So, okay. Not this one, but easements.

Easements. Yeah. I've got the GIS up. What number are you four? Okay, it should pop up.

All right. Right here is his lot. Here's the cemetery. So, what is the green line indicating? That is roughly where the property value or the property line is, but not necessarily the easement. The reason it's not on G. Yeah, the ement is not shown here. Okay.

But that this picture just kind of shows my opinion. As you move on down Morse landing, I see where the easement is a bigger issue because you have houses on both sides. So if both houses were building 20 foot into the easement, there is no longer an easement. I worked for a telecommunications company for 16 years. Believe me, I completely understand easements um and understand why they are valuable. We used to run into that quite a bit where you're trying to access telephone polar and easements haven't been followed. I understand. I'm not trying to cause any issues with that. But that's I mean where are my sheds at? I mean, moving that into 20 ft really turns it into closer to 30 ft because I got to put it on the other side of the shed.

And just for clarification, Mhm. there's a fence there today. Yes. So, you're asking to continue it down this way. Correct. And then there's that concrete. Yeah. You said there's already a section of fence there. Yeah. behind behind my shed there is a section you can kind of well um coming off the other direction there is probably like an 8ft section something right there there's already a section there that's we've only lived here for a couple years when we bought the house I knew like there was an easement but I did not think we were going to run any issues wanting to do something because everybody else's stuff was already in the easement I

I do want to caution you again this is not exact But it appears that part of your neighbor's easement may be on the cemetery's property because that line is the prop is is supposed to be roughly where the property line is. And so you if you're going to determine where to run yours, I wouldn't necessarily go back just because that's where his line is. Okay. Cuz you're saying it angles, right? Yeah. Like So if this is in fact the line, then it would appear this fence is on the cemetery side. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm just saying if I'm you, make sure that you go where your property line is. Don't rely on this just in case. Okay.

From my perspective as president cemetery, I can assure you from previous survey that was done about 10 years ago that fence is over on the cemetery property. as well as that there. It's on cemetery property. You said yes. And so one question I have is you mentioned two foot gates. Yes. Where would you place those?

Those would be I would have those in the back middle of the yard there. So there would be access back out to the cemetery and then I would have a I'm putting a fiveft gate on the one side and a 4ft gate on the other side. That's I'm trying to make everything as accessible as possible. Why would you have access? Because I bring equipment through there. I don't intend. I intend to just have access to the easement. Yeah, I I took it to mean he's wanting to leave it open in case we need to get through there. That was I'm yeah trying to

we often times get people that misuse the cemetery drive heavy equipment in fact that shed was placed where it is from access from the cemetery that was okay for us and they weren't really they didn't even ask ahead of time That's I'm just asking I didn't do I'm just asking because

I appreciate that info. So then I mean the council can say it's okay to encroach on that easement but I think friend correct me if I'm wrong it was stated they still have to go to the DCA they would because uh that's a development standard. So, if you if this council approves tonight, we still need to uh get a variance to approach on easement, which Frank has helped me file just in case because we were up to the deadline. So,

you're you're being asked as the property owner of the easement whether you would give consent to an encroachment. And if you give consent to the encroachment, then they have to ask the the BCA if they can get a variance from the development standard that mandates there be setbacks. Okay. Uh, I'll go first. Um, I understand you're in a tough situation. Um, the easement has been there since the 60s. I'm not I'm personally not in favor of of changing the rules.

Any sort of compromise you'd be okay with? My email I was if we if I moved it in 15 feet where I'm just trying to get it where it's on the other side of my shed. I mean I just don't as a matter of public policy I don't think we can make a customized solution for like every parcel in town. I just I not arguing. You're you're allowed to have your own opinion. I appreciate that. But I think there would be a pretty solid case for the few houses right here that do back up to the cemetery since we're not backing up to any other houses. That's that that's my only other perspective on this. Other than this, I'm just

I promise my girls that I'm putting in a pool back there. I get it's a tough situation. So I I guess my my perspective is you know we we have had easement discussions before and we have made adjustments for those. Um this is there's no infrastructure under do do you know if you move it right up to the back of the house or not to the house to the back of the shed. Frank, do you have any idea what what that distance is? How much he's asking for encroachment? It'd be like five feet, I think.

Well, from the property line to the back of the shed, right where Aaron's pointing using a GIS measuring tool is about 10 ft. So, that shed already encroaches about 10 ft or so, was approved in 2016, evidently. So, he's talking uh 10 ft. encroach roughly. GIS is usually where they

Yeah, cuz the Sorry, internet. The the that previous picture where I had the blue line drawn was like 20 ft from what I think is the the property line. So, it hits like right where the barn doors are would be the 20 ft. And I'm just really asking to go back like five feet from that so I could be behind the shed. Does that now would be like 15 feet if I don't think so? No. You think it'd be more than that? Yes.

Okay. So, I guess I guess my takeway is I myself would be okay at the back of the ship understanding the surrounding. I appreciate Frankie following the rules and following the ordinance. Um, absolutely. you don't have an option. Um, we as a council can make recommendations. So, I I myself would be okay putting at the back seeing this specific scenario situation. Thank you.

I agree with Jacob. Rules are rules and we can't continuously do oneoff. So, it doesn't happen very often and I understand your pain. My struggle with this having to deal with this easement is does the easement make sense where it's located? That's always been a question of mine. We've had multiple discussions about this. And with that easement being put in place since the 60s, does it still make sense where it is? Has that easement ever been accessed since it was installed in the 1960s?

It's a drainage. It's not access. I mean, I I promise you if you walk the full length of that easement from the south end of Morse Landing to the north end of Mors Landing Drive, there's encroachment. threearters of the properties. I mean, those are all old encroachments. They're all old encro You're right. 100% they're old encroachments, but we're talking concrete pads. We're talking about inground swimming pools encroaching. You know, it it would appear that we're going to have a split two to two. If I'm interpreting where everyone's going, we're going to have a few I don't know where you're going.

My I'll tell you in theory I would like to say yes. My challenge with this is we've said no to multiple people in the last few years. Well, every situation but every situation is different and that's where I'm at. And you do have a valid point in my eyes about being at the north end and backing up to the cemetery. But at the same time, we run into situations on the south end where it's only backing up to one of the ponds. But the challenge there is it creates such a narrow strip for that and the pond for accessibility. But that doesn't exist here.

In this situation, I would lean towards allowing the encroachment. I believe I I just don't I don't want to take a hard line on everything where some some things make sense where it it doesn't make sense in other places. And if you're willing to make concessions, I'm I'm willing to compromise. I'm opening to it. It would appear with a two two tide, we're not going to have a And this where Rhonda comes into play. Either Rhonda comes into play or you t You ready to make that big decision? First time stepping in. I'm a little nervous. You're nervous.

Defer to Dennis when Dennis back into if you would. What's your time frame on this? Well, they waiting on the pool permit to get approved, but they're hoping the pool can be installed miday. Honestly, if we're depending on what happens with this might cancel the pool, which we've already paid a deposit for. So, there is there is a lot writing on this situation for me. Um, I should have looked at this more. This is the first time I've ever had construction done on the outside of a house. I have learned a lot from this. Um, definitely definitely need to talk to Frank before you talk to anybody else. We meet May 5th. Do what? We meet May 5th as our next meeting. But Dennis won't be here.

Oh, he won't be here. That'll be here. I'm not close to making a decision. So, I lost my train of thought. Oh, I I remember what it was. I'd feel a lot better about making this decision if I knew the pool was already approved because it's mute point if the pool's not approved anyway. Well, a fence is I I still would like a fence with us being at the front of the neighborhood and I love all the events that happen, but that puts a ton of foot traffic around my property. I wouldn't mind the security anyways. And I have a five and a 2-year-old and we are to the point with them going out and playing in the backyard. Sometimes that is a little too open for me. So, fence is probably going to happen no matter what.

So, really just this is about the placement of the fence. Rhonda has indicated she's willing to cast the tiebreaking vote. Under Indiana law, when there's a tie on the council, the clerk treasurer can break. Well, so we haven't made a motion yet, right? So, I will make a motion to accept placing the fence. Help me out, Frank. I'm going to say at the back of the at the back of the shed, he called the 10-foot encouragement. Had a back of the shed at an estimated 10ft of encouragement. I second. All in favor? I think you need to do Oh, we going to do roll call.

I approve. I'll approve. Opposed. Opposed. All right. So, we have two to two tie. Um, just hearing what I heard. Um, just because there's there are no utilities back there, it backs up to a cemetery. I'm just I'm not opposed to. So, you're approved. Yes. Welcome to the big seat, Rhonda. Thank you, Rhonda. So, that doesn't mean it's approved. That means now you can go to you can go to the BA. I really appreciate your guys' time on this. Thank you so much. Um, and thank you for working the process with Frank like you did.

I would also like to say this has only been a couple day process. He has emailed back, he has called, he has been on top of it. I know that I've probably been annoying and probably got a little frustrated with him on the phone at first and I apologize about that and I appreciate you working with me on this. Frank and Terry, thank you guys for always following. It's appreciated. You do good work. Well, thank you. Thank you. Anybody have anything else? If not, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. We got a motion. We have a second. You you want me to do it again? We need to bring you in. I will say.

All right. All in favor? I oppose. Thank you everyone. Thanks.