Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening everybody and welcome to the planning and zoning commission meeting of Chesake Beach. It's November 19th, 2025 and um we are going to call the meeting to order and roll call please and we'll start on my right and I'm Cindy Greenold Christopher Smith

and please note for the record that Kelly Han and Commissioner RDK are both absent tonight but we do have a quorum so we're good there. Okay, everybody please stand for the pledge of allegiance. Ready. America and justice for all.

That's nice, isn't it? Thank you. Okay, now we will move to number three, approval of the November 19th, 2025 planning commission agenda. Do I see any additions or changes? Seeing nothing, I will ask for a u uh move approval to accept. Thank you. Second, a second. Got to get my words straight in my brain. I'll be good. Thank you. All in favor say I. Hi. Okay. Now we are going on to the approval of the minutes of November 5, 2025 planning commission meeting. Do I have a motion to approve?

Motion to approve. Second.

Any changes? Okay. I'll need a vote. All in favor of approving? I No. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Number five is um just an item of business here. Next month we will be electing a chair and vice chair so that they can begin in January to u to use their new positions. So if anybody's interested, please think about it um and uh maybe let somebody know that you're interested so you can be nominated and then we'll move forward. Okay. Um, now we're going to go to number six and it's public comment on any a uh agenda item or anything else. Do we have uh anybody from the public here? Oh, yes ma'am. Yes, please come to the podium and state your name and your address.

Good evening everybody. My name is Tanya Darbandi and um my address my current address or the address that um I'm in Chespic Beach Pacific Beach uh in Chesic Beach is going to be 8501 Bayside Road unit C4 which is commercialic Beach Maryland 20732. Um, so I'm here um because um I'm interested in purchasing this place that is located at the address that I just stated.

Uh the first floor it is at the it is in your neighborhood actually. It is the horizon um on the bay. Um the tall building. Um the first floor of this building is commercial and uh this unit that I'm interested in purchasing I have already put an offer. Um it is um for now it is a um physical therapy practice and the owner is running it which is a physical therapy doctor but um they are um he's thinking of retiring so he's selling the place. So the building has already 77 condominiums. Um average resident age is 55 uh and above. um many of them um of the those residents um already rely on the physical therapy downstairs. They just have to go downstairs. They don't have to go to another building or drive anywhere. [snorts]

So uh um this shows a strong need for accessible wellness in the area. Um my proposal is uh to have a Pilates center there, wellness Pilates. Um and um [laughter] we have an interesting party over here. Yes.

So um Pilates uh actually let me um I give you a little history. Pilates is based on the name of person that invented it, George Pilates. And he actually invented it in starting um helping the injured people in hospitals. he started with um bed in hospitals and then it evolved to what it is today. So it can be um it does um help the um it has benefits for mob mobility uh balance and strength and um all overall health. Um it has low impact classes. the one the business that I have in mind, it has low low pack classes which is good for um older um adults and uh it it can also have um higher impact for workouts for um a um younger age. Um this business I'm thinking that is going to provide a safe um area safe environment for all ages. Um I did some small research and there is no fitness in which um at Chesapeake Beach actually the like a um there is curves for women only um very small area everything that I found is in North Beach and in in Owing so people have to travel to those two places or to Anapapolis for Pilates they have to go to Annapolis there's no pilateses around this area so um I thought maybe the gap may be influenced by the current zoning Um the zoning right now is RV1 for that building and um it says wellness and fitness is not permitted. So I'm asking for um a zoning modification if possible for that place. Um um I am

I would like to say that this prop this proposal in is consistent with Calvert County's um comprehensive plan. also uh compatible with existing commercial footprints. Um and this business will not create issues. I have talked to associations over there. It is um um it is welcome. They welcoming this idea. It will not create issues with traffic, noise level or parking or the hours of operation. Um it will be for the people of the building, residents in the building and people from outside. It is a small business so it doesn't have a like a the parking is everything works with a small business concept over there. So I would like to say that I'm committed to meeting all safety requirements, licensing standard and conditions that the county may require. I um respectfully request for your approval for this space so it can save um res residents of the building and also the uh community of Chesapeake Beach community. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. I do have handouts if you want to join whether or not Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. It's so cute pages. So, I want to get everything she gets. [laughter] Well, funny. Thank you, Tanya. We We will be working on this hopefully tonight. So when uh what is your um um I assume you're in escrow right now. Is that the case or what's happening? They are thinking about it but they said before they okay

actually it was it is good timing with when I called Sarah and she was very helpful and she told me she invited me to come here. Thank you. Um, so I would I mean I would before I go with the offer I would like to know if it is approved or if there is a possibility as of appro approval because when I purchase it they want me to for two or three months they still want to operate there and then they leave and then so this I thought this time might be good for me to wait and see if I can get the permit and I would really a question while you're here. Has the building talked to you about how many parking spots you get with this particular

agent did and the agent has talked to them. So there are some reser uh res reservations already and there are bunch of visitor parkings and this is going to be only like for an hour I think at all times there is there's going to be not going to be more than 12 people at the place then that includes um me um receptionist um instructor and probably between six or eight um based on the space I have done the study I cannot have more than six or eight um uh machines there. Okay. So, it's not a big business. Hopefully, one day maybe,

but uh for now it is like if it is like only 12 people at the at each hour, um it's got at the most. Um it's going to be and the hope is that quite a few of them will be coming from the building, thusating some of the parking needs. Yes. So they have their own parkings and then um they already the therapy um the physical therapy has been there since 2005. So they already have their clientele and I talked to of course not all but some of the residents and they welcome the Pilates um idea.

Okay, we're probably going we're gonna hopefully get to that tonight, but we have another item that we have to uh talk to about first. So, you may sit and wait and see if we get to that. But on the other hand, if we don't, then you've been sitting just so listen to us chitchat. But, uh, if we do get to it, um, we might be able to make a decision for you tonight. I'm hoping. So, it's up to you what you know what you're able to do. Sit sit and wait and watch or just sit and watch.

We're fascinating fast when it comes to things like that. That's we might actually make you up. We'll push you up to the top is what we probably would do. when we get to that section. Okay, Tanya. Thank you. Okay, now we are on to old business, believe it or not, presentation by the critical area commission. And Miss Franklin will um go ahead and give us a little staff presentation here, please.

All right. So, we are talking about uh the coastal resiliency and um we do have some guests with us this evening um from the critical area commission and you guys correct me if I don't get your last names right. It's um Charlotte Sharon and Jamilia Soda. Jia Sweden. Yeah, Sweden. Sorry.

No, you're fine. You're fine. Um, and so what we had talked about at the last meeting and we've floated when we were looking at our critical area regulation update was a resilience overlay or an overlay for the town that looks at sea level rise and flooding and creates some higher mitigation standards for that area. And that's consistent with the town's coastal resiliency plan. Um, but we were talking about implementing this through an amendment to the critical area regulations and it's something that I've actually spoken with critical area commission about a couple of times and so we've asked them to join us so that you guys can ask questions about, you know, what that would look like, what kind of regulations you might be able to put in there. Um, and also Jamilia has a lot of experience in fee and loo and that's going to be critical to these higher levels of mitigation. Not everyone is going to be able to meet their mitigation on site and in some cases as we've discussed, you might not want to necessarily meet it on site because there's maybe a bigger storm water project or shoreline project that would protect the community better than on-site mitigation. And so you would want the fee and loo program to help fund that um for that community.

I don't know if everybody understands what the fees and loo program is. Did Chris, do you understand it? I would love to hear. Yeah, I think you may want to. Okay. So define that a little bit.

You're right that Chris wasn't with us when we or Commissioner Smith wasn't with us when we did the critical area regulations. And so the fee inloo is um when someone has a permit in the critical area and especially in the critical area buffer, they have mitigation requirements. Um typically for you know an individual lot, this is just going to be a planting requirement. Um for larger commercial lots, it has to do with storm water and calculations. But if you can't meet that requirement on site, then you can pay a fee to the town instead of meeting that requirement. Now, it's been the town's policy not to accept feed to have everyone meet the requirements on site because the town doesn't want to have people who can pay be able to kind of get out of mitigation to by paying. Um, but this overlay and long-term planning with coastal resiliency and the efforts we need to make kind of changes the dynamic of that, right? We do want people to pay for the things that are going to protect the community even if those things are going to happen offsite. Does that help? Okay,

thank you. Okay, I think everybody's now in touch with what fees and Lou are. Okay, now you can go ahead. Thank you. So I don't know if you guys want to talk about this at all or if we just want to take questions from the Yeah, we can give like a quick um this is actually a very timely discussion for us as well because um last year the legislative assembly added into the critical area law a requirement that we do consider climate change and resiliency concerns. I don't know if her speak her do you have the little green light on green the green light is then move it a little closer so that there you go is that better

I'll start over so last year um the legislative assembly updated the critical area law to require us to consider uh climate change and climate resiliency within our uh program and so um those changes were made to um the actual critical area law and we are currently in the process of promulgating regulations as part of KOMAR, the um code of Maryland that will um kind of be a bit more specific on how um that climate change and and coastal resiliency, how those um aspects should be considered within a local program. And so, um, when we talked to Sarah, um, a lot of the kind of ideas I think that the town has been considering are very similar to some of the, um, ideas we've been having discussions about in terms of our new regulations. Um, and those regulations likely won't be officially a part of our COMAR chapter 27 until the end of next year. But um it's very timely that you all are kind of thinking about this ahead of ahead of the curve. Um, so, uh, you know, we're here to kind of answer any questions in, um, in terms of, uh, you know, tools that might be helpful or, um, different, uh, kind of ideas and, and as Sarah said, uh, the FEL aspect is also something that we have been working over the last year to um, create a fee and guidance document for our local jurisdictions because with the changes to the law last year um in our perspective those actually added a lot of flexibility to how mitigation can be met. Um previously we had three

goals of the critical area law to protect habitat and water quality um and then also to accommodate development. Now, we also have two new goals um to consider climate change and climate resiliency as well as um considering impacts to overburdened or underserved communities. And so, um a lot of the conversations that we're having around uh those two new goals uh tie into potential fee and lube programs because that money can now potentially be spent on resiliency type projects. um and also things like providing public access to um communities that may not have that um and other kind of um environmental justice issues and that kind of thing. So that's it's all kind of um you guys are a great melting pot of kind of all the things that we've been working on over the last year. So uh we're very excited to be down here to talk to you all. All right. Does anybody so far have any questions? I mean, we'll have running questions if we need them. We kind of are very loosey goosey as far as how we want to produce this this information.

It's the legal, you know. Yes. But um um we of course has have a committee that did an entire project. You've got the you understand that we are pretty well fortified with information and whatnot. And now we've got our website that we're that we're using also to understand better what we've got here. Uh, and I think we incorporated a lot of this within our last comprehensive plan which was only about two, you know, two, was it two years ago or so that we three years ago that we now finished that? But, um, we're so cognizant of our concerns, our issues because we've got flooding in certain areas already. So, we're already I think wasn't there a committee set up just for flooding? Um, Miss Franklin, don't we have a committee that you met with today or what was that? Oh, so there's a a nuisance flooding committee and nuisance flood plan.

Yeah. So, so the question is, are we coordinating all these people together? We've got this committee, that committee. Um, but as far as cultural resency, um, I'm assuming that whatever the state is doing, um, will be part of that plan and more. we probably will have our own individual ideas and um uh

yeah and I think that's definitely um something we've been very cognizant of in terms of the conversations we're having about the new regulations because we do realize that it's not likely a one-sizefits-all kind of solution. Um and so you know there are every jurisdiction within the critical area has its own program has its own critical area program. the state law and regulations just kind of set like minimum standards. Um and so ideally those programs are tailored like very much to the jurisdiction that they are serving, right? And so um we definitely plan to maintain that um flexibility and um uniqueness for you know for each jurisdiction.

Yeah. In addition to that, um the FeLoo guidance document that we've currently been developing and you mentioned the nuisance flood plans and the bring that a little bit closer to you so that we can

the the nuisance flooding plan flood plans that you've been working on and the committee that you've been working with. Um we highly encourage in this guidance to also lean into current planning efforts within the jurisdiction. So what is identified in your nuisance flood plan and can you address some of those coastal resilience issues that are identified in those planning documents through the use of that theloo program as well. So that crossover and kind of not reinventing the wheel um is highly encouraged throughout that whole document. So, we brought up the idea of the fact that this town hasn't really used a fees and loo program so much, you know,

only because we want people to mitigate appropriately. Um, how would you set up a fees and loo program where people would not take advantage of that situation? So, um, in the document and in our law, we have kind of a no net loss, um, bottom line. And so we've set up the fee and loo document to be one two of tree canopy. Sorry

tree sorry no net loss of tree canopy. So like when you're clearing in the critical area buffer we are still expecting that one to one that no net loss to be planted back. And so in our fianl guidance document we still have that expectation that one one will be met. Mitigation rates in the critical area do vary. So things like buffer disturbance might carry a higher mitigation rate like 3:1. That excess of that 2:1 that you would get above the direct replacement of the tree loss or the planting loss um can go to the more flexible spending bucket of how can we address resilience, how can we do these larger scale projects, how can we look at storm water comprehensively. Um, and so we've kind of structured the document in that we still maintain no net loss of these trees, the canopy in the critical area, but we also are allowing the greater flexibility with the extra funds that are raised through the floo.

Yeah. So if you theoretically wanted to still encourage some level of mitigation back on site, so if somebody clears on their property, you could theoretically require that replacement of one to one be done back on the property and then any mitigation above that could potentially default to fee and loo or something like that. And is there there's obviously a bureaucracy set up in each little town to handle all the fees and lose and that's a whole another issue. the cost of uh administering all this.

Yeah. So we do not um manage funds for floo. So it would be done at the local level. Um and there is guidance in the um fee and ll document in terms of um the accounting and kind of keeping track of what the impacts associated with the fee and loo are so that you can um you know make sure that uh you're getting appropriate mitigation back when you actually do the projects with the fu money. So, it seems like it's a budgetary item that it's ripe for abuse. And I mean, I hate to say that, but I don't know how you account for things in

in the bureaucracy. Yeah. So, the um most a lot of our jurisdictions have fee and loo programs. So,

um Charles County, I think, is the only county that I know of that doesn't collect a fee and loo. Um I know for a municipality it's perhaps a bit um bigger of a lift just because of resources and that kind of thing. Um but um the only requirement in our law in terms of separating out what um fee and loo money is collected for is for buffer mitigation. So um that amount of money would be kept kind of tallied separately. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be used for separate projects but um in terms of like the reporting and the tracking that money should be uh tracked separately. the Fee and Lou guidance that Jamil's been working on, we do have like a um attachment to it that shows kind of a um it's like a template track tracker basically.

Um if you want to speak to that.

Yeah. So we have um it's a template tracker like she said spreadsheet and it talks about or guides how to account for the different types of impacts that are occurring and what the specific fees are collected for. So buffer impacts forest and developed woodland clearing is another thing that we could collect fe for um lot coverage is another thing that could be collected for family. So like these different impacts and then it accounts and it has the individual projects that is collected from the impact and the rate that it's collected at and the amount of money and then on the other um side of things it has the projects yeah the expenditures on that is being spent. So what specific project is being um is it being spent on or like plantings, coastal resilience projects, um how much money, what's the impact? And so it has this accounting sheet to ensure that the money that's coming in is spent appropriately and um is also still being spent too because there has been issues too where we want to make sure that the fees that are being collected are being spent appropriately um and not

and there is also um I'm pretty sure in the law that it the fee and loo money cannot default to like general funds. Yeah. Um, so that is, you know, and there are actions that the commission can take if that is happening. So, um, so I, well, I mean, yeah, I guess there'd be no way for us to really know one way or the other if it's how it's being appropriated, but you know, I don't know if that'll be our jurisdiction. Um, yes.

I have a question just to like wrap my head around this because it seems to me that the fee in Lou is mostly going to be to like residents on relatively small projects. And I'm assuming that the fees are relatively low, but then it feels like the kinds of projects we're talking about wanting to put money towards feel like way more. Yeah. Is this am I like doing the math right in my head? So Sarah, I don't know if you um want to talk a little bit about that first and I can um add on to to because I know you had talked about setting mitigation rates and and that kind of thing too. So

So we actually have some of the higher fianl rates. It was one of the questions that the commission asked asked of me when um they were looking at our update. So yes, there's a lot of little residential lots that this will apply to and it's not going to

pay for be a lot of money, but if you kind of if you look at the mapping, right? So depending on and and this map doesn't match up our our coastal resiliency mapping has kind of like this whole area, right? This is not residential. This is commercial. Um and so as you do commercial projects that are along the shoreline that are more heavily or is some residential but more heavily impacted and having a bigger impact on the community. That's where the funds are going to be to say yes, you can complete this commercial project that is bringing you money, but you also need to protect the residents through the FEMA.

Okay. You wanted to add anything to it. Yeah. I well and I would just say that um you know from our perspective uh typically what we don't want to see is a lot of fee and loo money just sitting and not being used. However, if a jurisdiction has a plan for the projects they want to spend their fee and loo money on and it's a matter of waiting to acrue enough money to implement those projects. that is kind of part of what we've laid out in the fee and ll guidance to kind of establish that. Um so yes,

because it seemed like a little bit worrisome like you don't want to be waiting years as you collect enough so that then like damage is being done so that you get the pot big enough. And there are also there are also um some suggestions in the flue guidance on how you can maximize your floo money like using it as matches for grant opportunities and things like that. if there's a specific project you know you want to do um there's potential for for kind of taking advantage of some of those opportunities also and that's also discussed in the fee and loo guidance and fees and l projects cannot be on private property is that correct no they can oh they can be on private property

yeah there's um so depending on the type of project um typically there is usually some type of um like protective covenant agreement it doesn't have to be an easement. Sometimes it is an easement. Um but there is usually some type of um protection placed over the project if it is on private property. Um but that does happen um not infrequently. [clears throat] So

okay. All right. Um so uh I guess the question is how can well I guess we have no way of protecting the monies that come in from you know fees and loo but do you guys have oversee power you don't oversee it sounds like you're saying we but you don't mean you so um there's a reporting requirement in the okay in the regulations that um each year the kind of um uh what's been collected and how it's been spent that gets reported to us each year.

Um other than that kind of oversight, you know, we are typically not involved in, you know, day-to-day kind of collections and expenditures and that kind of thing. It's just the annual reporting. Okay, good. [laughter] Um [clears throat] Commissioner Smith, do you have any um other questions? Uh no, this is a lot of good information I'm absorbing here, so questions right now. Uh Commissioner Gryman, what he said. of what he said. Anything more? I'm sure Commissioner Brown doesn't have anything to bring to this one because he knows everything about this already and you've already asked your question. Okay. Um they're still working on this thing.

No, he's helping me, not they. What else do we want to um what else do we want to and now that we have them here? I know we wanted them here when we were working on [laughter] their critical area report here, but um what else do we need to um ask them because we're limited in what we're thinking here. Um,

I don't know if we want to talk about because one of the reasons we talked about this specific overlay was, if you guys recall, there was a 200 foot buffer that you wanted to put in because you wanted to increase mitigation and the 200 buffer foot buffer didn't work, right? Because the buffer regulations are shoreward of

your built environment. And so, you know, maybe like what kind of mitigations or or regulations are you all thinking about with regard to in in relation to what you wanted to do with that buffer? What are you kind of thinking for this overlay? It's a good time to ask them if it's something that would be allowable. Um, did you understand what uh Miss Franklin was talking about? [laughter] This is all this is all very new to me. So, this is this is

okay. So, when you're talking about the buffer, um, I know there was, you know, my desire to try try to extend that buffer from 100, I think it was 100 to 200, and we all said, eh, you know, it's really only 100 that everybody wants to be at. That's the state standard and so forget the 200. Um, and I guess my thought at the time of extending it was just to give us a little bit bigger area because we've got a little bit more it seems like a little more flooding potential in this in this town. So, I thought the longer uh area that we have to do buffer, the better we are, but I could be wrong there.

Yeah. So, I correct me if I'm wrong, sir. I think the concern on our end with that is that much of that 200 ft along the shoreline is already developed within the town of Chesapeake Beach. And so when you apply our buffer regulations to very developed areas, you just end up requiring people to seek variances constantly for any redevelopment they might want to do. And so um I think that was kind of our advice was that might not be the best way to get at what you're trying to get at because it's just kind of a burden on property owners and applicants then at that point to just have to um continuously ask for a variance. So,

um I think the overlay that the resilience overlay um is a a better option because then you can kind of set different rules for that overlay area. Right? We have like the requirements and standards in our regulations for what is required in the buffer and that's kind of the minimum standard and like I said those don't really work for highly developed areas. So if you create this overlay um resilience overlay, you can kind of set your own rules I think for that.

Um and you know some of what Sarah had had talked about were like increased mitigation requirements or um things that we've been discussing in terms of our new regulations or related to like design standards and um potentially requiring higher uh like freeboard elevation in um uh structures that might be placed within a vulnerable area. Um we've also talked about um limiting certain uses in those vulnerable areas. Um you know obviously I think things like um public infrastructure like hospitals or you know public buildings like we don't want to put those in vulnerable areas right because that creates a whole slew of problems for people. Um, but maybe there are certain uses that would be okay in a vulnerable area, you know, because they would only be there for a certain amount of time or they are um, uh, low risk in terms of flooding and that kind of thing. So, um, obviously like open spaces, parks, like those kinds of things, that would make sense, right? um and even some other like potentially more um intense uses but just that we know are going to have a lifespan that is shorter than the predict predicted flooding for that area. That makes sense.

Um I know one of the things that we talked about in the compre comprehensive plan and uh the text amendments thereafter was changing some of the uses of some of the zones in order to eliminate the intensity of the uses. So, in other words, we took residential use out of the commercial zone, etc. because it's going to be a highly um flood I think probably a highly flooded area at some point down in the near future. So, we did things like that to try and and offset uh any concerns.

And I think that makes a lot of sense. Um you know, there have unfortunately been a lot of like stories in the news lately of of major flooding events that have led to loss of life. I think that's um obviously public safety is like a huge uh concern there in you know in terms of um where flooding might happen and what that area is being used for and kind of trying to limit um or if not completely eliminate that kind of potential loss. So, um, you brought up another point that I know we're going to be talking a lot about and that is freeboarding

and I'm sure that's a term that some people don't, you know, aren't aware of and, you know, we're being streamed here live. So, I would like everybody to know what that's all about. It's very important to coastal, etc. So, if you wouldn't mind.

Sure. So, that um, I believe is related to the flood plane regulations. Um so the flood plane is a designated um area across um the state where uh flooding is predicted. So you have like your 100year flood plane, your 500year flood plane, you can have um when a storm of a certain size occurs where the flooding is going to happen. So that designates your flood plane. Um and then there are requirements on um when there is uh development in that area what's required and so um freeboard is the elevation of the structure. Um so there's like minimum freeboard standards but um you know one thing that we have been discussing is potentially requiring above the minimum standard for certain vulnerable areas. So like if you have two foot elevation that's required maybe we would increase that to like three or four feet um in more vulnerable areas. So

So when you're saying more more vulnerable areas you mean uh it's below the the water level or what what is um so that would be for areas that are predicted to flood within a certain amount of time. So due to sea level rise, due to storm surge, that kind of thing. Okay. Okay. And that would be kind of what you're designating with your um resilience overlay theoretically is where those areas are located. Okay. All right.

To some extent in the town. So this is one of the areas where there's a lot of um so this is the fire department and the waste water reclamation plan. Um, and so this area in the coastal resiliency plan is actually targeted for managed retreat, but there's areas just outside of that that aren't that maybe should be pulled into the overlay and and have that freeboard because they may still experience floods at higher flooding events or more severe flooding events. So maybe we draw the you draw the the overlay a little bigger than this zone.

I don't know. I don't think storm surge was looked at in the coastal resilience. I had briefly looked through it. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know if that's something too that you want to incorporate into your overlay looking at the storm surge projections. That's a good point. Yeah. So, are you saying that our coastal resency plan does not account for um storm surge? I think Hold on. I've got that up over here. I mean, I I I it does address sea level rise, but I do not believe that it specifically addresses storm surge. Um there are recommendations

that I think get into that but the the mapping is not. And Sarah, if you click on the high tide flooding like under sea level rise there. So that will show you um predicted sea level rise by a certain year plus a storm event. And so it's divided out by I think a minor storm event, a moderate storm event, and a um major storm event. I'm not 100% sure on the definitions for each of those, but um little info button has lots of information in it. And you can also there I mean obviously the historic event one has like

I think hurricane Isabelle is mentioned in here as well and discussed that.

Is that Isabelle or is that Isabelle's the top? Yep. So you can see that you know the the area that we're talking about was impacted and so while I think that the resiliency plan is only talking about managed retreat in maybe this area maybe in sort of this larger area you're requiring higher freeboard levels. So when you uh when we put these um suggestions in these u and these conditions in will it mean that we will be applying for grant monies to uh assist in um the current projects having to be elevated or or just uh insisting that new projects be elevated. How is that how would that work in an existing community?

Yeah. So I I'm not our flood plane person is not here. We do have somebody on our staff who is getting certified as we speak. She's the expert um in that. But um I think that uh there are requirements like when redevelopment happens and then for new development um I think in terms of what you want to require theoretically you could decide that. um as long as it's at least as um as long as it meets the minimum requirements for like what the flood planes uh FEMA uh flood plane standards are. But Sarah, you probably might know more.

I [laughter] am not a certified airplane manager either. Um but you know, obviously you can't require somebody to modify their existing house. as as flooding events become more severe, it's going to have more impacts on people's existing homes and so they may choose to elevate it themselves to protect their home. Um, or they may choose to flood proof it in different ways. And I think that in this overlay, we need to be looking into the zoning ordinance to make sure that both the zoning and the flood plane ordinance allow for the increased height and also different different ways of flood proofing. I think we may have even talked about amphibious houses. [laughter]

Oh yeah. Okay. Um, I'm trying I think that in terms of the grants though, there are there are grant opportunities. So I but I don't know how they're awarded necessarily like if there's a um, you know, if you have to meet a certain standard in order to qualify to apply for them. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There I think it's like community based and then the residents apply, but it's really hard to for individual property owners to get those grants. for new property owners to get the grants. They It's hard to get them.

I think I think it's because there the grant pool is smaller right now because of what's happening. Um so there are so there were a lot more grants than there are now for this but there are grants available. Yeah. And I think in terms of like a new build would be required to meet the freeboard requirements and that kind of thing. I pretty sure if somebody bought like an older house, demoed it, and wanted to build a new house, that would also be required to meet it. Um, but

I think for a person who just wants to put an addition on or something like that, they're not going to be required to elevate at that time. Is that accurate? That's correct. Um, and one of the things that we might want to look at is sort of lot coverage. You know, obviously people do want to put on additions, but if you're you're putting on an addition and you're putting your structure in more risk, it maybe isn't the thing that makes the most sense. And so maybe a tighter lot coverage um requirement in this zone would be appropriate. Yeah.

Okay. Um, what else? Anybody else? Any questions or anything? I think, you know, you've answered some of my questions that I've had. Um, the fees [clears throat] and loo were a big big concern. You know, my fees and loo were a big concern for me. Always has been a big concern for me. Um, because we've had a lot of trees taken down

and we've had a lot of probably, you know, a lot of issues with that. So, um, you know, it's one of my my concerns. Um, but I we don't want to make it too ownorous for people either. That's our problem. You know, we don't want to a lot of these people have older homes and and so there's that balance that we have to seek out. I know. But um what I didn't understand, what I didn't realize is that you can actually use the fees in L on private property. Yeah,

there's actually um Calvert County has a um really one of the more unique fes in that they collect their fee inl um open grant RFP kind of opportunity where private property owners can say like hey I want to plant like an acre of my property

and they'll actually use their fanloo monies to do that planting then um they have a whole like board set up who reviews all of the applications every year and then they decide which ones they want to fund. Um it's been very successful for them. Um and my understanding is that they get more applications than they can fill every year. So there's it seems like a um it's desired by the the people who live there also. So Oh, that's great program. Yeah.

Um course they got a nice big bureaucracy to manage all that. We we also have a section in the guidance document that discusses Calvert in detail and I think we are going to include some of their like planting agreements and contractual language as an attachment to that people can use as reference. Yeah. So there they have um it's like a one-page form that the property owner has to sign that basically says like I'm not going to cut these trees down after they're planted. um which meets kind of the requirements in our regulations in terms of some kind of protection over the mitigation once it's in um implemented. You know what I've notic in in this area

is that real estate agents don't always advise you that you're moving into critical areas. Yeah, that's a big problem. It's I don't know why the state doesn't come down and say you this is requirement. you got to fill out this form and people need to see you're moving into a a very severe area where it's going to cost you possibly more money. You won't be able to blah blah blah and that hasn't happened and I'm trying to figure out why or maybe it has and I don't know.

So it it um I will say you're not the only person to feel this way. It has come up in the legislative assembly a lot. Um, there actually is, you know, in the pile of things that you initial when you buy a home, there is a page that you're initialing that says, I understand I'm in the critical area, but it's, you know, like page 100 of the 200 pages you're initialing at closing. Um and our chair is this is also something that he has brought up that he would like um a lot more um there to be more presented to property owners at that time. Um and I know it was something that we've had conversations about. I don't know. I the realtor lobby is not in favor of [laughter] it.

I guess I mean there there is a stack that you have to sign. So I understand one more thing is just not what they want to do and it will keep them from selling a lot more places. It will I mean it'll be a problem.

We are trying our um we had a a reorg of our staff last year. Um and we actually have uh a team that's our program implementation and education team that I manage. And so we are trying to do a lot more educational outreach to groups like realtors. Um Jim Milly and I actually presented to the Anaundle County Realtors Group this year. Um and just kind of trying to um explain to them what some of the limitations might be for somebody buying in the critical area. Um, you know, I think

either people don't know that they're in the critical area or sometimes they may think like, oh, it's the critical area, I can't do anything, which isn't a is also not necessarily true. So, there's, you know, um, some misinformation I think related to that. But I would say the education is a big part of our big problem here. And until we get the public on board, it's it's just it's so limited as far as how much we can really um keep this uh controlled and and adhere to the principles that we want to have here. And um so I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, but I know I'd like to see the town do more, but I think the state really needs to get involved. I mean we are happy to come down talk to um groups the communities citizens whomever um we are very happy to to do that Sarah I don't know if that if um that's something you want to we can arrange you know if there's a a opportunity for us to kind of have a open presentation or or or session or whatever Q&A we can do it however Um, we're very happy [clears throat] to do that.

Well, that's great. That's great to hear. Yes. In all my interactions with y'all, you've been really willing to come down and meet and and present. So, yeah. What's so like about Ches Beach anyway? We're gonna have lights in a few few weeks. We're all light lighted for Christmas. Okay. Anybody else have any questions or any um you know, any statements you'd like to make? Um, we we you know, we're lucky to have them here because it's uh I've been on this board for a lot of years and I haven't had you down here yet. So, this is good to finally get you. Well, they've been willing this whole time. They've been as long as I've been here. Not everybody's been the timing hasn't been right for everybody. Um, nobody down here. I didn't look down here this

Oh, well, thank you so much for attending and helping us out. We really appreciate it. And I'm sure if we have any more questions, we'll direct them that way and that way I'll go that way. And there we have it. And if there's I don't know how as things progress with the um update if there's a need for us to come down and and have another you know work session kind of conversation or anything like that. We are very happy to do that as well. So you know just let just I'm thinking the town council might want them to come down too. The town council may have questions. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Very nice. Okay.

Um, we'll let them go out. Did you guys need a break for two minutes while we're changing the St. Mary's? I did. You looked familiar. Yeah. Rachel. Yes. Yeah. Rachel Larson. Yeah. I was like, if you're not from town, then you're probably from there. Very red hair, though, right? did. It's gotten taller and taller. Yeah. Like how red was red? Enough that she would be like, "You were a red head." That's right. That's right. There is. You were a red head. No, I still feel like one. I still identify as a

What does it mean to feel like a red head? Identify as a non senior citizen. But thank you so much. Thank you. read this again. Yeah. Can we Okay. You So, you want to read agenda to do that instead of going into We're going to go into Well, actually um did you want to finish up a little bit of this before we um start talking land use? Uh well so the land use classification table is related to the public comment.

No I understand that but I'm talking about any of you want to say more about that. Yeah. Did you want to conclude any of that before we move on to the land use?

I guess I mean I think everyone is feeling good about our plan right to identify this. We have to identify what this area is right. Um, and I think using the coastal resiliency data and I did find out that we do have still have that GIS data. So I the town's engineer has it. So we'll be able to access that to do the mapping to create the overlay. And what I think we need to start talking about as our next step is what's going to happen. Some of the things we were talking about tonight, what what's going to happen in that overlay? What are the the regulations going to be? What are the mitigation requirements going to be? You know, what what do we want to do here?

Can you identify exactly where you want this overlay to go? Can you just I mean, is it where all the current So, light blue is or what are you what are you thinking?

I would say I would want to pull Let's see. I'm I'm going to bring over another. So this is our coastal resiliency. So they identified areas when they created this. It see this is hard to see mapping, right? Um and they identified areas. So I think we want to use either this lower level or I would think the higher level is probably if we're going to increase freeboard requirements to to use this higher zone. um which somewhat coordinates with this level. We're going to have to work out the GIS layer with um the engineering firm to to have a map that can go into the zoning. Um but we can use this sort of as a conceptual uh for conceptual discussion this evening um or until we have that mapping. So you can you can see what it's impacting, right? It is going to impact these ho all these homes really more to the north of town, north end of town rather than as you go south the homes are elevated more.

Um and so you're really having more of the impact on the open space and any new developments that might be coming. Right. That's what any new developments. A lot of the areas when you did the comprehensive plan and you did the comprehensive resoning, you identified a lot of the areas that were going to be susceptible and zoned them as resource conservation.

Um, so a lot of that work is already done. Um, but there are still some things that can occur there. So I think I think going back to the coastal resiliency layer like using this actual data to create the map, the overlay map that we want. I guess my question really is without getting into spot zoning, do you create it so it's more of an even line or do you go in and out and in because I'm seeing that

you know what and I'm saying that it's not I mean, how do we avoid doing spot zoning if we don't come just straight down like Route 261 or something? And well, because it's not really zoning. I mean, it's zoning. It's an overlay, but it's an overlay, but yes, but the overlay becomes what we're going to be trying to modify all the uh codes to. So the question is, do we keep an entire area looking looking the same or are you gonna have okay this little stretch here has free boarding u um um codes and then these guys do not and these guy I mean it'll look odd.

I think there's there's that's part of the discussion, right? Is are are are the freeboarding requirements going to apply just in the overlay zone or are they going to apply everywhere? like that that's part of the discussion to have, but I think the freeboarding discussion needs to be had.

This this overlay I can see having stricter lot coverage requirements, right? And um higher mitigation requirements, limits on uses so that it it wouldn't be its own, right? You could still be in the TC and have certain uses that are allowed but not permitted in the resiliency overlay zone. Mhm.

And it's I'm not a lawyer, but I would say that it is not spot zoning because it is tied to a specific source which is related to the landscape and the sea level rise projections. It's not okay random. It's I'm sorry. It's not a random identification of a different zone. Yes. I'm sorry. Go ahead. because it would actually seem more random to then include things just so that you could have us right angles to be but like that's not a property that's actually showing any impact like sense to require freeboarding all like

across town. It'd be in it'd be a customizable area, right? Rather than Yeah. But you might say, you know, put this little circle in into your area. So, okay. Uh, so anything more for Miss Franklin before we move on to another? Is there anything else you want to talk about with this particular subject? uh tonight.

No, just to let you know that I am working on the getting someone from Maryland Insurance Agency and also the someone from the public works department because I know you wanted to speak with both of those folks as well. But I think we can start working on this concept if everyone is in agreement that this concept is how we want to move forward while we also have those presentations. I'm seeing nodding. So, I think yes. I think it wouldn't help if everybody tries to get through the

coastal resiliency plan. Um, because then you'll be a little bit more comfortable with what we're talking about. Some of it has a lot of jargon that you may have to look up, but it's, you know, it's pretty well done, I think, as a handbook here. It's pretty good. Um, I noticed gosh, it's it's already two years old here. It was done in 2023. [laughter]

by the time we actually utilize it, it's going to have a whole new set of uh recommendations probably. Okay. Um so I think we're going right with the speakers. Um I don't want to get too far behind, but yeah, if everybody can catch up with with understanding this. I know there's a lot of um there are a lot of pages here, but I think you can do it by the next meeting. Um okay, let's move on. If we're done with this, we're going to go on to number two, the land use classification table. And because we do have a guest in our audience who has a specific request, I think we could probably jump to that. Um, what was what was that going to be, by the way? Do we have that specifically at a certain point?

It isn't um uh it isn't in your memo, but it is not inconsistent with your comprehensive plan. So, no. Um, let me just I just want to make a note that we agreed that I'm going to start drafting that. Um, and so we'll move into

so the the land use table. What we were looking at last time is the RV zone and some of the uses that weren't permitted in the RV zone uh for the RV RV2 for the more intense use. This is an RV1, but it has um this specific RV1 if you Okay, so RV1 for example, professional licensed physical therapy office, that's a conditional use in the um RV1 zone. And the condition I'm going to bring up so you can actually see that the condition is basically that it's located in this building. Um, [laughter] and it Okay. Well, here's one that so O right here is also a conditional use in this in the RV1 and you'll see that the the condition is the use shall be an integral part of an existing and otherwise permitted mixeduse commercial and multifamily development that was permitted, platted and recorded prior to January 20th, 2025. [snorts] So I think to resolve this concern if everyone you know agrees and I think it is con completely consistent to have um it is number 48. No not 48

42. Thank you. Um recreational and fitness studios. What we would do is we would change it to a conditional use in the RV1 and we would make that condition just like this condition the same thing. So that would allow that type of use in that building. And we might want to consider because that building can't be spotzoned into a different zone, it's in the RV1, what other uses might be appropriate there and and apply this condition to them that this may apply to more buildings. you guys might know. Um, but I think the purpose was to not create a spot zoning situation while also allowing the mixed use that was pre-planned for that development.

So, you want to So, you think we should go back to uh conditional use permit for that numbers that again? Well, it's confusing because we have two different pages that say 42 on it. I don't know if you noticed, but 42 um on page, if you look up at the bottom, it says page five. Um it's recreational and fitness studios. And right now, it says [laughter] says not permitted for all for all areas, all zones.

It should probably be permitted in the RV, too. It's a little Okay. So, so you may Are you in the zoning ordinance? If we can all find it here. Where is Oh,

yes. You have multiple pieces in your packet. So, we do. Yeah, we do have uh you you want to go to the second table, I think it is. Yes, we do. Because that's the current Yes. land use table that matches what I'm showing over here. The

other one is my assessment table. So, I guess the the question is I see fitness as possibly different than recreational studios, but I mean, you know, I I I hate to lump them all together because they're not necessarily the same, but um I guess they could be the same, but what do you have as far as the definition again of recreational fitness studios? Do we have a definition up there? pretty. Yeah, I still

I can't see it. I mean, from what I'm seeing, I feel like part of a fitness studio when they're talking about examples of recreational services, they are things that are related to fitness often, but like it's a little bit what your motivation is. You doing this for funsies? Are you doing this? Well, if you notice on 42, 43, 44, they sort of break down different types of recreation. Uh, and actually 41, too. Um, we've got 41 to 44 are different types of recreation. Um, there's no there's no definition of

there are no specific definitions. Um, I just am I don't want um Yeah. What are you worried that it would cover? That's my problem is that not having a definition, you know, the sky's is the limit. It's kind of like uh could you have something really I don't I haven't I'm sorry, but I haven't been in that building and I don't know how noise travels. I don't know how um you know, if somebody came in and wanted to do a really loud rockus, you know, there's all kinds of fitness programs that require loud music. I didn't know if you would disturb the people above or I don't know how that building the first commercial above. No, I understand. But sometimes even upstairs you hear the music from down below.

Pilates. No, not Pilates. I'm talking about But then if somebody else was like, "Now you can have a fitness studio. So now I'm going to have my bar class there or something be a lot louder." Yeah. Exactly. So what you're trying to do is look at a potential use of different kinds of uh louder, more um intense kinds of uses and recreational. I'm just curious, wouldn't those be things to some extent that the sound regulations would come through with the building and like what it would permit to happen?

Well, let's let's just look at this. If we if we let it in RV1, that means the person who lives next door to Commissioner Brown decides to have this incredible dance studio with loud music. the conditional it has to be in a pre-existing commercial residential building. That particular Yeah, that particular one. Well, we're saying that's what that particular back. Yeah, that particular condition. But um

may in the book is I don't specifically remember what hours but like 8 in the morning 10 at night and a lot is that well see we're not looking at just your particular building I'm looking at potentially other situations that yours may also be um you know an umbrella for you might say. So I'm kind of concerned about not your situation. Um I'm just can we think of how to be a little more specific on that so that we don't end up wishing we hadn't made this so general?

If we look at the RV1 RV1 is here where that building is correct. It is here and here and and along on the coastal I think on the coast like right up by North Beach when you go up in the top right corner up in that area there.

So I don't think in any of these areas there is a um where'd it go? Otherwise permitted mixeduse multifamily development. Now, this one doesn't have This one says recorded prior to January 30th, 2005. The only thing I wonder that could be covered in that, you know, what was supposed to be the beef and reef? What

the what was supposed to be in the beef and reef? I don't know if that like but would that be a building? It's like kind of caddy corner almost from Neptune. um developed and it's got those weird windows and it's Yes. I was just wondering if that would be a building that also would potentially be RV1 mixed. I don't know if that was mixed use commercial. It probably was built somewhere close to 2005. It's been a long time. Um it was built to be a bar. Yeah. And it never does it have

Yeah. So it was probably never uh mixed use building like mixeduse commercial and multifamily development which is what the condition currently says that it has to be building a different use but yes that's I'm recommending we use this so I was just thinking if we applied that to these other things right were there any other buildings that then somebody's like, oh, I want to crossfit in that, right? It has to have been approved for multifamily and commercial use. Okay.

Prior to 2005. And I think what Commissioner Brown is saying is that building was not approved for I don't think it would have ever been approved for residential as well, right? It's on a property with Right. um because that's just the only other build that came to mind because most of the other multif family buildings in our area don't have commercial

right and most of them are not in the RV one thinking So, um, in the RV1 area up there by, um, off of 260. Um, I'm trying to think, some of those are single family homes up there, right? Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's any mixed juice buildings up there. Um well, I think is um the octagon up in that section. I'm trying to think is the you know

have to be in RV2, right? Not RV. Uh this is Well, so we need to do it for RV1 because the horizons is right here. Mhm. Mhm.

Um, but it it we're talking about RV2 and it it probably is something we should discuss in RV2. Um, and we can maybe have conditions for for RV2. the conditions could be more related to um the type of fitness studio or the volume you not and we can't regulate noise in the zoning ordinance, but we could allow things like yoga or pilates or

type of thing. Um okay. Um so does anybody have any questions about what we're talking about and where we're talking about um allowing this? Anybody have Any concerns? The current the current business I'm sorry, I just have a quick question for you. The current business that's there, do they have assigned parking uh for like Yeah. for that? I know you had mentioned that there's like there's there's guest parking and there's other things. Yeah. Yeah. And I know you're not talking about you having possibly six to eight you said, right? Okay.

Okay. should probably be full just with people who live in the building. [laughter] You don't have to worry about too much uh extra parking there. Wonderful. Yeah. Parking lot is never Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Are you expecting outside patrons as well? Yes. Because sometimes it seems like that gate's shut and you can't get through it.

No, I understand. I just I'm thinking is it just after seven? Okay. All right. I wasn't And were you going to do weekends as well?

Okay. All right. Um Okay. So, I didn't hear from anybody about questions or um amendments to anything. Nobody's looking at me like who would like to make a motion or any what? Yes. I mean, one thing that Sarah had mentioned though are if we're going to make a motion, are there other things that we also are like, okay, that I I mean, I don't want to overly complicate it if we can make a motion to get this part moved onto

town Council [clears throat] more quickly, but like if we're doing it, are there any other things that we feel like especially in that in RV1 with that particular condition? Like it seems to me weird that number 21 professional offices in residence physician, architect, lawyer or similar is not currently allowed in that building. It also seems like therapeutic massage doesn't feel that different from physical therapy and should be allowed in my opinion. I mean I would also uh financial services

which is number 31 and 32 business services actually forget it. That could be loud copying contractor shop. But I think the answer is yes.

Um, Miss Franklin, what is your recommendation about that? Um, so I I think it's correct that there are more things that perhaps should be allowed with this specific condition. even really um this retail convenience stores it's a small space right you're not going to have a big con store in there but maybe you can have a small convenience store for the residents not to not have to travel as far for things um so not a nursery but

so can you identify which numbers we're talking about then I mean I was saying 3124 24 and 21. You said 21. 24 31 you said and 31. Those feel like that's a Tavern night club. Am I right?

No. Yeah. You must be at a different thing. 37 is what I see as Tavern nightclub. 31. Financial service bank. You want the table that looks like the one that's on this screen. problem is I hate to I hate to do this in a sloppy manner that we're just starting to look now to go through it. We probably should have you go through it and identify which ones would be compatible because you probably know this table better than we do because I could I'm thinking I'm going to miss something here. I would say if you want to make a motion tonight, you can and then I can in, you know, come back and say, "Hey, I think you maybe should consider adding these three other items next month if you would like."

Yeah, there's I mean, it's not set in concrete. We can certainly do that. [laughter] So, um, but I think it would be nice if we could at least, uh, do what's obvious. So, if I I mean, just if we're thinking about a motion, 21 seems pretty obvious, right? Professional office, in residence, physician, architect, lawyer, or similar. That's something you're not going to have lots of foot traffic, not lots of noise because we're already allowing like a dentist office in the next one. So it seems silly that an architect couldn't be next door. Um, a therapeutic massage feels very similar in nature to me as a physical therapist like what would happen in that building. Um, we're already allowing offices for business, professional or government purposes so that and artist studios. So those feel like they've already set the precedent for that kind of thing. I don't know what bank would want to financial service in bank, but if a financial service is also like financial planners or accountants or you know

or a nonprofit that helps you. Yeah, that feels like that would make sense to Well, basically you're almost saying the entire office and commercial uses section because if you keep going down, they're talking about barber shops. Well, no, I mean, we're already allowing barber shops and yeah, that's true. Um, financial services. I'm not sure about the appliance and furniture repair, but I mean, yeah, I don't think that those necessarily like I mean Sarah said retail stores. I could imagine how maybe they don't I mean you could allow it

that feels like in some ways you're bringing in more people whereas like even a Pilates studio feels like a more dedicated you know who's coming in and out of that building and as a resident you might feel even more comfortable with those uses versus something that's just freely open like a retail space. But if you're already allowing barber shops, that's like not it kind of keeps in that you're allowing retail establishments that carry one type of Yeah. Okay. interrelated goods. Yeah. So, I mean, if you have a bookstore, why can't you have a convenience store? Yeah.

Right. You start splitting hairs now. But that's it's also fine to make that distinction if Okay. Would be willing to make end on it and then

I think it doesn't look too difficult. Go ahead and make your motion. motion to um change some of the permitted use in RV1 on in the table to a conditional use as is um already set forth in um with number 25 with number 25

to be applied to number 21. number 24 uh number 28 and number 31 and 42. Oh, and number 42. Yeah, the the reason we started this. Yes. Yes.

Okay. So the motion is to change the RV1 use to uh with conditional use as be applied to 21, 24, 28, 31, and 42 as indicated chart. Um any any uh second on that motion? I will second the motion. All right, we need to uh have questions. Did anybody have any questions about it? Go over the numbers again. This was 21 24 28 31 42.

Oh, you like 23 like 25 is conditional use in the RV1. Oh, is the um isn't the 23? There's quite a few things that seem to This is the condition for 25. 23 is already conditional,

right? So it's directly condition and 24 are so similar. Modalities used could be very similar. I'm sorry. What was that? I was saying like 23 y is conditional. 24 you can't but therapeutic massage and PT use similar modality sometimes so they so that treated the same. Yeah.

Absolutely.

I'm sorry. Did I hear a second for that? You said it. I said okay. No wonder I didn't hear it. I said it [laughter] and I didn't hear any questions. Any discussion? Nobody's talking. She's still busy. I'm talking to myself. I'm talking. I think the 42 if you think of like a Zumba class or something that could be very loud but that is up we're saying that that's a you still have the building sound requirements that's that building but but that but

but there is no other building that's covered in and it is conditional there's no other building in RV1 that meets this condition of a multi- a multifamily commercial building. So like Horizon's

and deal if they're if they're you know willing to do it are we if they're you know saying these are the sound requirements and explain please what a C is. So, it means that I can approve the permit as long as they're meeting those conditions. Ready for a vote. Pardon me. still looking at something studying. Since we haven't looked at this before, I want to give her as much time because I I it's a little unfair, but I want to give her the shot of looking at these. They're not on the agenda. Miss Franklin, you don't see anything else that would fit into that similar use idea, do you?

Not from a brief look, but like I said, I will look at it specifically before the next meeting, and if I feel like there's another use or two that should go in there, I will bring it forward to you in December. I do have a question. So, you're saying it's multi-use where and I and I'm not that's in the condition that Sarah pulled up that's being used for 25 currently. So, the use shall be integral part of an existing and otherwise permitted mixeduse commercial and multifilly multifamily development that was permitted platted and recorded prior to

J. Is that the two? So that's the 29011R may that's what I see as the conditions or additional use regulations and I'm just want to make sure that I see where that is the wrong number connected to this chart office or clinic or medical it was 22 not 25 it's wrong I gave you the wrong number I'm sorry 25 has more. Okay. So, you might want to amend the motion to

amend the motion so that it uh reflects the conditions of number 22 on the land usage chart, not 25. [clears throat] Okay. Can you go back to those uses on 22? You just need a 20. Yeah, the condition on 22 is here. And then you just need a second on the amendment. Um, yes. Let's have a second for the amendment, please. We'll second that. Okay. Thank you.

I don't think I can make this any bigger. I keep trying to but so that's the only the highlighted one is the only condition. Say that again please.

That highlighted condition that's the only condition on the use. It's the only condition that that is the only condition currently for having an office or clinic for medical dental examination in that same zone. So, it's just applying this same specific condition to all those other uses.

Right. But you were just saying a minute ago that you had the wrong one or something. What was that? offices. So, offices for professional business or governmental purposes can be can be in other places in the RB1. Oh, I see what you're saying. I see. Okay. This one is is keeping certain things. What page number is that in our in our What? This This isn't in your packet, but if you have one of my iPads, you can click on the tabs and you can find it. Um, yeah, it's in your zoning book. Um, oh, I have my zoning book. So, if you just

tell me where it is, I'd like to look at that. Let's see. So, I'm not sure. Why is Horizons in RB1? Why is it not in

or I thought it would be in high density. I think it can't be an NC because

multif family dwellings are not permitted in the NC zone. But it could have been the high density. I don't you know I still say it should have been you would have had to zone just this one. That would have been a spot zoning property. Because yeah, you could have made it NC or you could have made it RV1. We talked about that. Even the NC is that certainly not a single family dwelling. No, that is so true. Um so if in your zoning ordinance it's um 290-11 conditions and standards for conditional and special exception uses. And then you're going

I like to I like to compare things when I want to Yeah. look at more than one document and then it's letter O. Okay. an F, right? Letter O off it. So a letter O

letter O. Okay.

01. Yeah, it's 01.

Okay, we have a motion and we have a second. And I think we're unless we've got any other questions, I think it's somewhat clear. Um again, the motion is to change the RV1 zone to um conditional use um to be applied as as like number 25. Let's see here. like number 20 to I'm sorry. Change it to 22. Yes. I'm sorry. Change it to 22. Want to restate the motion? Then restate it. Yes. You We had already amended the motion. So, do I need to restate?

Restate the amended motion. I think you have to vote on the amend. Is that right? We have to vote on the amendment when we hadn't voted for the Yeah. I don't know if we have to clear the men amendment first, though. So, withdraw that. Let's withdraw that. And I'm going to do a new one. Do a new one. All right. Perfect. Okay.

Okay. I would like to put forth that we change the what the heck am I saying that we want to do the land use classification in RV1 um on points in the chart number 21 number 24 um number 28 number 31 and number 42 to be conditional and that condition to match what is already listed under number 22 in the land usage chart

said number 28 yes retail convenience stores we had included that because we were discussing the fact that you are currently allowed to have a retail establishment carrying one type of good in that space. So it seemed consistent if you can already have a gift shop florist and all of RV1.

No, in RV1 with the condition that it is in a multi-use building that is both residential and commercial. So it would allow at the base floor of Horizons on the bay basically to have a convenience store and it includes a pharmacy and that kind of place might need a pharmacy. So under number 28 the pharmacies located in that. So I mean we don't want to restrict the possibility of pharmacy in that particular I think. Oh,

I mean it seems to me somewhat arbitrary between saying that you can have an established carrying one type of inter related good but then not other establishments. Okay. So I think we now have had it um restated and I think uh does everybody is everybody clear now with [clears throat] it?

Sure. And then and then on the uh conditions or additional uses the ones that you are suggesting that we amend will then also carry the coordinating part code. All of those would just be having the condition that was already set forth in number 22 which is the use shall be integral part of an existing and otherwise permitted mixeduse commercial and multif family. And you're you're adding that multi-use and RB1 that's restricted just multi-use and RV1. Yes,

RV1 the area that's single family home and Horizons on the bay. But it has to have that condition which is highlighted in green which is the NC area has three shores in it. A loss a convenience shore and a physical fitness play and we can't include Horizons with that clue. We leave them with the single family homes over here. No. But that makes no sense to me.

I feel like uh you got to go back to the um come back to the planning and zoning commission a while back that made those

right. We would have to go back and I remember that the question had come up and our planner suggested that it say like this just because of um he didn't want to spot zone and he wanted to keep the commercial residential free and it wasn't going to be mixed use. So yeah, it gets uh it's a big question mark, you know, and that may need to be changed if you feel like we need to change it, I guess. So, so under this we would have umarmacies 28 in the homes next to or in any of the homes along that area or in any of the homes north of it. No. Or on the other side of 261.

No. Because of the condition that says that it has to be in an already mixeduse commercial multif family development. And that's the only building in RV1 currently. and where will it say that

that's the condition. Yeah, but but I will note that it doesn't talk about you're talking about the professional licensed physical therapy office that but I don't think that that would apply to like the um you know like the convenience you know the retail convenience stores because they're not professional licensed physical therapy office like the Q if I'm reading it correctly only applies to physical therapy type issues. Correct. So you set the conditions for any conditional use. So what this motion is is doing is saying that these other uses are going to have that they're going to they're going to be a new letter

in the in this section and they're going to have the same condition as this. Okay. Which restricts them. Okay. Only to the horizon's building. you're not going to put that in here because it's only

multi-use that now the the question of the whether the NC is right and whether all those are good questions that we should probably talk about and I think the the concern is right now there's businesses and home occupations and all sorts of things that are coming in and asking for permits and I can't grant them a permit because there's issues with the table. So if we can fix the table on a a tighter timeline and then we can come back and look at the bigger issues that will take a little longer to resolve that allows people to keep moving forward in the meantime. So

that's before the town council approves it. Yes. [snorts] And the town council actually wants to look at this. They discussed that at their work session. They want they actually want us to look at it more comprehensively. have spoken to them about some specific uses, trying to get those happening faster so that there's not so many denied permits um for uses that were never intended for that. Okay. So, did did your question get answered, Commissioner Brown? Okay. So, we've got a motion on the floor and we've got a uh second. I I will second that. Uh, don't forget when you asked to second it.

Well, that was the first one and now we've got another one. So, we have to second this one. Um, okay. We've I think we've concluded discussion and questions. All in favor? I. Any opposed? No. Okay, we got that done. Took us a while, but we got that done. There you go. Good luck. Congratulations. It took us a while, but we finally got there. There's a caveat that it has to go to the town council and they have to approve it. Yeah. Okay. So, if you want to kind of loop back Yeah, we will.

to the other uses in the RV2. I believe we had gotten to we haven't gotten we've got let's go to professional school studio for music and art instruction dancing school etc. That's um uh but that's uses for RV too. So I thought we got that. I think we I don't think we did that. Oh, I don't think we did. Did we? Look on your minutes. Good luck on your luck. Look on your minutes. Second page.

Second move. Yeah, we do. Okay, good. Continue with discussion with use 11 professional schools considered. Move to approve professional schools with special exception. I think we I think we got all of them. I think we got that second chunk and we're going to allow those all as special exceptions without condition. So that the board of And oh the last one, the one we did last week, sorry, two weeks ago with the home daycare, I mean the non owner occupied daycare. That's a special exception, too.

No, that's the um that one was conditional. Move to allow this. Uh hold on. move to allow this in all residential districts. No, I I think it's just allowed. I'm looking at the motion I have written. What is it on the minutes in case I didn't type it right? I don't think we really um all residential districts if requirements are met.

Oh, because there are conditions. It's already conditional. Yes, that was why. So, so it does have conditions. Um, and they are I think it's the first one. Nope, it's not F. They're letter F in your table. So, I'm sorry, they're letter F in your ordinance, the conditions.

Um, so that one was approved separately. Number 11 was approved separately. And then all the other uses that are listed in my memo were approved as special exception uses which would move us into discussing customary home occupations unless there's other uses that. What number is customary home occupations? Oh, 60. Sharon says 60. That's um Yes, you're right. You're good at finding these.

Oh, I probably wrote it down.

Yeah. Um and that one, so the previous section we were talking about and that we were just talking about now is the uses for RV2. Then the next section of my memo talks about customary home occupation because that's beyond just RB2. But I think um it is worth the question since so you just approved allowing certain uses in the RV1. Are they uses that you want to allow in the RV2 as well or not? Because they're not they're not as compatible if there's not the multif family condition.

Yeah. I mean, would anything in RV2 even be able to meet that current condition? Well, you could allow them in RV2 without the condition, right? Okay. Um, if you wanted to do that. Um, I think the retail establishments kind of goes outside of what's compatible with the comprehensive plan. Um, but I would say and even even the fitness centers feel like that could be something that would be because that's still like even as a small one that's still 12 people at a given time. That's a lot of parking, right?

But I do feel like things like like the architect lawyer, what number was that? Like professional office that feel 21 feels like that makes sense for RV2. therapeutic massage. I know lots of those feel like they do make sense for RV2.

So, do you want to permit any of them in RV2 before we move on to home occupations? I think by and large most like or I'm for lots of uses and lots of things as a rule.

I'm for lots of uses and lots of things as a rule. Um, I mean like I I think there are exceptions like things like if if we're talking about having a fitness studio in RV2 that seems more questionable because of like the number of cars and parking. But I do think things like professional office, uh, licensed physical therapy, therapeutic massage offices for businesses or professional thing. Oh, well, those are already Well, I don't know what the what's the condition RV2 for offices for business. Yeah, for number 25.

Yeah, that's the one that I accidentally gave you. That one had quite a few more. So, that's number that's letter R if you're going back to your zoning code.

Okay. Yeah, off street parking shall be provided. Okay. Um, we've got time is running out on us as far as um looking at this and we should probably already know what we want to do here. Um if we go back to um these uses uh I think we we should probably go down one at a time and just talk about each one because otherwise we're not going to we're not going to get through this at all. The library, museum, community center, adult education center or similar open to the public or connected with a permanent use and not connected as a private business.

I I'm sure you I'm on our agenda. So if you go on to the agenda where it's under uses for RV2. Thank you.

Um that seems like it requires a lot of intense you uh use parking uh pedestrian traffic. Um I for some reason think that she needs to stay stay in the commercial zones. So I'm not willing to go anything but commercial zones for that use. So, the last meeting and I don't remember what the motion was, but the those ones all went into um special exception so that they would go before the board of appeals. I don't remember us voting on all that special exception.

Um it was like a Was there a motion for it? I thought that was just for the professional school studio for number 11 that we did it, but not I don't didn't think we had gotten to 12. Library museum.

Okay. I have allow these as special exceptions without conditions written down. But let me I just want to show you what that is just so you can see it as you're considering each of these uses as an option. So because they have to go through the board of appeals and the board of appeals has this set of standards that the establishment, maintenance and operation of the special exception will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety or general welfare. That the special exception shall be such that it will be harmonious in the character as well as appropriate in appearance with and will not be injurous to the use and enjoyment of other property in the neighborhood for the purposes already permitted nor substantially diminished and impair property values within the neighborhood. Three, the establishment of the special exception will not impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of surrounding properties for the uses permitted in the districts. Four, establishment and operation of the special exception will not adversely impact the capacity andor safety of the town infrastructure such as roads, water and sewer drainage, etc. Five, the special exception shall be such that pedestrian and vehicle traffic associated with such use will not be hazardous to or unduly conflicting with the existing and anticipated traffic in the neighborhood. And six, the establishment, maintenance, and operation of special exception are consistent with the town of Chesapeake Beach comprehensive plan. So that's in addition to like creating your own conditions, it's an option to use this as and that kind of covers a lot of the concerns that are coming up. So as you look at each use, you can consider whether you want to not allow it, allow it with conditions, or you can allow it with this special exception that kind of creates its own set of conditions.

But we don't we don't want everybody going to the the board of appeals. I mean, that's not our goal. Our goal is to avoid that. And our goal is to try and come to some conclusion ourselves. And I think when you look at a residential community, um I think what we need to do is protect the residential community, even though RV2 has always been momand pop businesses have been allowed, but a library and a museum are not mom and pop businesses. And a community center, adult education center, that is more intense use with more parking, more traffic, and I don't think it's appropriate for any residential community. Um, you know, I think we've got to be careful about protecting our, it's in the comprehensive plan. We need to protect our residential communities and there are characteristics of, you know, quiet, safe areas for people to live, families to live. And um, I mean, it, you know, I'm really concerned that we are getting too liberal with our ideas of what we can do in a residential community. Um, and even though RV2 has historically had mom and pops in there without too much issue, um, I know they also still love their little tiny cottages and their little acquaint community and they chitchat back and forth, but they still don't have a lot of parking. They still don't have a, you know, not every place has a garage. Um, I mean, it's not like my area where nobody has a garage, but it certainly has a little bit more land in the RV, too. But I think I think we've got to be careful about our residential communities. Um I mean I'm still concerned about you know us being cognizant of how this quiet little community the we the um the HOAs don't need protection. who needs protection are is this little tiny stretch of coastal area um that is slowly but

surely uh trying to get out of what was historically a tough time where people weren't maintaining their homes. But now we've got full-time residents. We've got people who have spending a lot of money to buy some of these houses and they have to protect their investment. if I, you know, paid a lot of money, $500,000 for a house and then all of a sudden a community center pops up next door and yes, I can see we've got to go through the conditions, but I think that's our job to say, you know, that's a residential community. I don't think a community center really works there. We'll put that in a community center,

a community center or an adult education center. And you know what the RV2 is? You know, I mean, does everybody know where the RV2 is? It's um if you look on your map, you'll see that it's um all resident I mean, you know, all residential looking. You don't want to change the nature or the characteristic of the outside of the houses. You don't put a lot of asphalt in front of a of a house to increase parking. Um you want to keep it looking like a house, a residential area. So, I don't see how this would fit in there myself. Um, I'm not even sure about the public building next below it. Public building a recreational facility owned and operated by Ches Peak Beach. I'm not even sure I understand why that's even something that we even need to talk about because

which which number are we talking about? She Well, we were talking about 12 and then she I'm looking at I'm looking at my list in you know the agenda. What number on Oh, I'm sorry. Um, and where I'm looking at my agenda item right here that we're going down the list there, but um, okay. So, the professional school my memo. I'm sorry. My memo from up. Yeah, your memo. Thank you. Thank you. [sighs] So, the library and museum is is the number 12 on the chart.

Yeah. Okay. Um uh and it's not conducted as a private business. So, to me, uh number 12, it's not conducted as a private business. That just seems over intense. the RB2 and we want to keep houses for housing. We have a low housing stock. One of our big issues in the

put H up on the screen H. Minimum lot area 10,000 square ft. Yeah,

those are an RV1. Well, I mean I think mine's about 10,000, but the point is you can buy

Yeah, you can you can buy my lot. I have three lots put together. You can buy up cottages if you if you know if that's you know what you want with this situation. In fact, I think somebody has bought up like a few of those together. Um, but I'm just saying, uh, you know, what if you could have an, you know, a 10,000 foot lot somewhere or what if you, um, I think there are probably areas in the RV, too, that that have 10,000 square foot lots or you could buy up your neighbor's property or whatever if you were going to do this.

Um, it's just a public. Have you been to the museum in North Beach? Well, it's small. I do know it's small and I don't think Yeah, I haven't been there. No, if you're asking me that

near it. It's super sweet and it's like a cottage industry and if somebody were in if somebody were I mean I don't actually though the the 10,000 square oh that's the lot though not and I've also been to museums like that in other parts of the country and they are like sweet and they can offer a draw and like nobody's ever in one in North Beach nobody's people are rarely at the railway museum even though that has like more tourists

I guess Again, my my point is I don't I don't think we should be taking up residential areas for non-residential uses. That just, you know, kind of limits our residential area. And I think a lot of people want to live here and they can't find housing. And then if we start turning them into other uses, there goes our housing stock again, you know. And I I just think we're doing ourselves a disservice. I I know a little li a little little library here, a little this or that would be cute, but I I think again if we're looking at what is necessary, what's necessary is more housing. Um we we don't even go to that little museum in North Beach. I mean, you know, we could do be doing that, but we don't do that.

Some people do. [laughter] I haven't, but I plan to. Funny. Yeah. You've been here 30 years or something. I mean, you know, whatever. I'm just saying I I you know I am very conservative when it comes to uses because I think we had a huge discussion with the the plan on the fact that oh there's not enough housing there's not enough low income or enough housing that people can afford. Guess where they can afford housing? It's still in this area because these are older properties. RV2 is still somewhat we have a motion on the floor. No, we do not have a motion on the floor. Why are we discussing? Because we're trying to we're trying to learn. We should have a motion. Then we can discuss.

Then make then make a motion. Right. I'll make a motion that we allow uh libraries, museums number 12 uh in the RV2 and RV1 [clears throat] communities. Well, it has the conditions up there. You would have to you have to say it's you'd have to say that those conditions would be if you put it in here the condition is there if we make it a C and not a P. If you just make it permitted then there won't be conditions but if you make it a C then there will be conditions uh with conditions.

Second your motion.

Okay. Anybody want to discuss it? I think um I come from a slightly different perspective than Cindy where I I do think that we need housing, but I think to have a thriving community, you also need to have resources and things for that community to engage in. Um, and as somebody who has grown up here and has a lot of, you know, my greatgrandparents moved here and I kind of like have a I to me that feels like what the beaches were was this thriving kind of integrated thing and it's gone through a lot of waves. But I think to the more that we can do to have those kinds of resources available um that seems to help the character of the town rather than being detrimental in my opinion.

Okay. Uh Commissioner Brown, um [clears throat] I agree with uh I agree with [laughter] Rachel, whoever, and yourself. Yeah. You agree with yourself?

Well, yes. This sort of reminds me a little bit, you know, the Barnes Museum in Philly that used to be it's a great collection and it used to be in I don't house sort of in Balakinwood and Lorden Taylor and it was horrible for the neighborhood because there are just people walking by not necessarily quietly. Um, now they're in a new building. Um, so I'm a little mixeduse about it myself because on the one hand I believe in that kind of diversity that you feel that things are thriving. There's like a buzz, you know, you feel it makes you feel like you're kind of part of something. At the same time, the streets like the nonha areas, the streets just don't don't really seem to lend themselves. I mean, I'm pissed that they're paving the road on Cox's road because it's disaccommodating me, if that's a word, when I have to wait for the flag to let me go through and that's like a a a nano micro aggravation. And so I just I don't want to agree with you entirely just cuz

Well, don't you know but nobody nobody else is my wife. I feel torn. I I I don't know what the answer is. I understand the kind of vibe that that that means that something is living and ongoing that you feel and I also feel that you know you don't know what the effect will be in an area and we could decide something that could cause harm later. So that's what all I want to say. And am I allowed to abstain [laughter] voting? Okay. Sorry. Enough of people for you to abstain. Uh, yes, Commissioner Chris, what do you say there, man?

I guess I agree um with uh with with Rachel over there. Having a community that has that has things like libraries, community centers, I think brings more to the community and more for more amenities and more honestly free free things that are available within the community that I don't think is a negative that like doesn't have that a negative impact especially in the areas that we're talking with the conditions that we're talking about setting forth. I think it's a it's a minimal in impact rather than you know it's minimal

because of the sizes of the lots. I don't think it's a uh I don't think it's going to be a as big of an inconvenience as as I think that we can imagine in our head. So to me um the catastro catastrophizers, however you say it, those are the type of inconveniences that I'm okay with. Community [clears throat] centers, libraries, like I love that. I love that about my community. Play devil's advocate. But that's because you know that one won't be able to go next to your house. I would love one next to my house.

Well, I'm not sure you would love one next to your house because the negative impact could be the negative impact could be much different than what you I mean it could be greater than you think. I mean you could have trash. You could have um people coming at different hours thinking it's open and it's not open. the the point again is you're changing the character of a residential community and yeah, I would love to see all this stuff and I love the buzz, but in the areas that that they're not going to impact residents, you know, small families with small kids who are trying to take naps, uh people who may have to work night sh uh may have to work the night shift and have to sleep during the day. People who want a quiet community. Um, this is what I think about when I think about putting more intense use into a community. Plus, the fact that again, I think we need more housing. So to take out two or three houses to do these things for our one one time a year use or something seems a little bit you know um uh how should I say uh inconvenient inconvenience inconveniencing for for the people who live there and for my little need once a year to go there. Um, I'm just concerned that, yeah, minimum lot is 10,000, but 10,000 is it really isn't that big when some of these lots are pretty good over here in the RV2. And if you get two of those together, you've got yourself, you know, a community center.

Sure. Um, and it could be a community center that somebody else bring. It's not private. It's not going to be a private. Uh, why do I think it's not private use? I thought it's not because it has to be like a nonprofit. It's Yeah. Or something like that. So, so speak. Um, so anyway, I'm just I'm concerned about changing up the historical nature of of the way it's been and that would change it up. I mean, the historical nature how it's been, adding more houses can also be detrimental to the area as well. You know, increasing the volume of people that are already in our small town, right? So,

which historic nature we need more housing though is the point. The point is we need housing. Um, but we don't necessarily need, you know, centers of uh, you know. Anyway, okay. I think I read the numbers here and I think I'm I'm on the losing end. So, I think I'm just going to call the question and go ahead and vote because I don't think I can convince anybody otherwise. Um, all in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. Say I. Okay. And a no because the O. Okay. So, it's two against three. Um, do we need four for a quorum on that? Yes, I think we do. Actually,

it's what 33 and a third. So, that four. That's what our rules say. Four is a forum. I do. I think we need four

on this situation. I think we need four. Um Okay. Um, we'll have to I'm sorry. We I forgot we have to have four for that. So, one thing I just want to identify is that the I I understand like why certain uses are allowed in the RV1 and not in the RV2, right? Because there is this multif family development in the RV1. But the only difference in the land use table between the RV1 and the RV2 is the housing densities. So none of these small mom and pops are allowed in the RV2. So, I think it's important that I mean I I know you don't have enough people to kind of make these votes, but it's important to kind of after this meeting for everyone to sort of think think this through like the RV1 and the RV2 were separated for a reason and making sure that we're being consistent with why we separated it and we're allowing the uses we intended to use in the separation. I think it's helpful if we have that. You know, what what was the I mean, I wasn't here, right? I didn't write the comprehensive plan with you and I know that there's several council members who or commissioners who didn't either, but what was the intention? And and when we're allowing certain uses in RV1 and then not allowing them in RV2, at least those uses that are conditional in the RV1, we have to think about whether they should be allowed in the RV2 because we're now allowing more intense in your your zoning. You're allowing more intense uses in the less intense

area. And so an argument could be made by someone wishing to put a use in the RV2 that that is problematic. And so figuring out how to manage that

and again maybe it is a larger problem of whether that specific lot should have been in NC and then NC would have to allow residential and so that it it's it's all kind of thorny. It's just that we want to make sure that we're not allowing more intense uses in the N R RV1 than in the RV2. So, at least in these areas where the conditional uses are permitted, it's something we should talk about.

All right. So, how do you want us to proceed with next meeting? Um, I know that council is anxious to see some land use table changes. Um, there are more there's more issues that have to be addressed than I put in the memo because I want us to I wanted us to sort of take a bite size piece and be able to push that on before we look at things like ADUs. Um there's also we also need to talk about the RC a bit and I think those are going to be bigger discussions and the idea is let's see if we can solve some problems for people sooner. So if we can maybe just sort of go through the kind of make a decision on the RV2 at the next meeting and get to the home occupations. I think if we could even just send those two pieces over to the council, it would help alleviate a lot of issues. Okay.

Um, I've got a question. Why I'm trying to figure out why this hasn't already been settled and why we don't have this in the minutes from a couple years ago when we had this all array. You know, this was all done already and approved by the town council. Yeah, we're redoing the entire thing with in less than two years. I'm trying to figure out why. Because when you when you have a district that the purpose of it was to be primarily residential and less intense than another

No, no. I'm just saying we had this entire chart completed. It was all done. There's there's there's things in it that aren't consistent with the comprehensive plan and in my professional opinion create challenges in your zoning regulations and enforcing them. [clears throat]

It would be easier to deal with the challenges as they come along. So that's what I'm trying to do here. Um I'm trying to be it might be useful for us to talk about and I can talk with the pan administrator about having a close session um to discuss some of it. My hesitancy is that I think some of the discussion that you're asking me to have belongs in a closed session, but I'm not certain. So, I would I would feel better not answering now and asking that question and determining if we need to do that um than saying something that I shouldn't say in an open meeting.

Okay. All right. So, it's Thank you for that. [laughter] We will come back next month and have more fun with this. Um, and when is that meeting? Uh, yes. The meeting for next month is is the 17th, December 17th. Um Um, and is there any comments by a commissioner? Um, Commissioner Smith, anything that you want to talk about quickly? One minute uh in closing? Yes, we're going to close off. So,

okay. Um just a real quick shout out um to uh the firefighters that responded off of Stenant Road and uh all the first responders and just want to make sure and our website has the uh the uh Chesapeake Beach relief donation fund which has been I guess has been doing well. So um it's right there on our site. But yeah, just a quick shout out and uh I know there's a couple dozen people that are that are out of a house right now. So yeah, it's tough stuff. But um too bad. We got a good community that can uh is strong and uh we can help out. So yeah.

Anything for you? No. And Rachel? No. Okay, good. Then do I have a motion to adjourn until December 17th? I make a [clears throat] motion. Not everybody at one time. Do I have a second? Okay. All right. You all got it. Thank you. Goodbye. It's been lovely. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Happy Thanksgiving. Oh, yes. And absolutely happy Thanksgiving. Going to California. I am not. I am right here partying with my family in Owings. Yes. Owings. Proud Owings person here. Slip down.