Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Yeah, he was a council. I know. I would say that.

All right, it's 6.32. I'm going to call to order. I call to order the meeting of the Charlestown Board of Zoning Appeals for July 13th, 2026. This meeting is being streamed by Under Productions. We're going to start with the Pledge of Allegiance. So I'll have everybody please rise. of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. We're going to do a roll call. Okay. Wayne Burden? Here. Okay. Tony Jackson's here. Karen Wilson.

I'm not a vocal member.

Yeah, but you didn't list the remaining chairs, so I had to look at that. I miss you already. All right, we do have a quorum. All right. We got approval of the agenda. Today we're going to be working on approval of private minutes, public comments, old business, new business, and standards variance request, and adjourn. So that's going to be what's on our agenda for today. All right. Anybody going to approve the agenda for tonight's meeting? I'll make a motion. I'll second it. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Approval. Okay. Tony, I don't see the prior minutes from the last meeting we had. Should be. I don't see the minutes.

You don't see them in the package?

No, I don't have it here in front of me.

Oh, that's what you have got packed up here, I got it.

It's on the tablets.

On the tablets, but they're, they're locked. Just hit the top button to turn it on. Password is 47111.

I didn't know where they were. All right, here we go. It's in the package. 4-7-1-1-1. All right, here we go. All right, we're good now. Sorry about that. I didn't know where that was located. I'm too used to having packets in front of me. All right, let me just pull it up. There we go. Okay. Anybody see any description in the minutes? I read through them before and I didn't see anything. We didn't really do anything. We did an agenda for the old minutes was Mr. Drexel inquires if the board has a chance to review the agenda. If so, he undertakes a motion to approve the agenda. That was done. Mr. Drexel inquired if the board has a chance to review the previous minutes. If so, he obtains one of the improvements. We did. Dan Robbins makes a motion to approve. Seconded by Wayne. Motion carried 4-0. Instruction inquires if there is any help coming. There will be none. Old business, there was none. New business, we talked about 1291 Morrow Street with standard variance. There's a move from the agenda. Resident called three hours before the meeting and said it was not needed at this time. New 309 Reynolds Street, standard variance. Representative with KGF, Austin Duckins, spoke about the variance and requested the property They want to cut the property into two, going with 42 to 30 feet. The driveways are either 12 or 16. Mr. Roberts was concerned with the parking on Lovell Street and said the driveways really need to be 16. Mr. Burke said that he was sure he needed to put this into place. Building Commissioner Tony Jackson indicates a motion to approve the variance. Request 309 of Maryland Street. Dan Roberts makes a motion to approve as long as the driveway are 16 foot. Seconded by Daisy Lucille. And it was adjourned after that. Then there's a motion to adjourn. One makes the motion, seconded by Daisy Aguilillo. And motion carries for EPA. This is zero. Okay. Anything scrupulously on that? I mean, everything looks good to me. If not, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the last meeting. And I'll make the motion. I'll second it. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. That's 3-0. Okay. A new business, a new, for our new business, we're gonna have a standard owed appointment. Sorry, approval of the prior meeting minutes. Any public comments at this time?

Nope.

There's no public comments, okay. All right. Nothing, we have nothing for old business, because that's already done. So, new business is a standard variance request for 112 through 114 Spring Street, corner of Audubon Spring. So, I'd like to have a comment. Come on up.

Good evening, I'm Derek Holmes live at 1015 Water Street, Charleston, Indiana. I'm the property owner of the 112, 114 and the adjoining lot on the backside of that that faces Ottman and have a plot plan for three lots and requesting a variance for the square footage home size.

There used to be two actual two duplexes on those properties.

On that corner right there, right? Okay, any discussion? Anybody want to talk about this a little bit? I mean, I do have some questions for you, Derek, because I did go up there the last couple days to see how the streets was being maintained, the parking situation there. My only concern about this area is that it's a very congested area already. When I was up there, over the weekend, I went and checked it out, and I did notice there was people parking on the streets, and there was people, you know, just in the middle of the road blocking, and barely one car could get through it at a time. I don't know if anybody wanna see this picture here. I don't know if anybody can see it or not, but my only concern is about the parking situation there, because these houses look like, they're smaller, they're about the same size as the one that's above that one in that picture, right? The 110, yeah. The 110 right here, right? So, you reckon they're all that size? I mean, I don't know how the property line is circled and divided up there, and I don't know what the other board members' concerns are, but again, I'm really concerned about how congested it's getting up there already with three additional buildings and people parking up there, where they're going to park at. So how big are your driveways going to be in this diagram?

The driveways will accommodate two vehicles. Yeah. I don't know if when you're referring to a parking on the road, the house at 117, they do have a large truck and a trailer, a construction trailer, and they do park on the road. Yeah, they were there a lot. It will not fit in the driveway when he parks on the road.

And my question is, if everyone would see a picture of me down here, is that I was up there two different times to check it out. Because I really was really wondering about this. Tony, I don't know, the driving situation up there in the Pleasant Ridge area has always been contested with people up there living up there. So I don't know what everybody's thoughts are about that, but for emergency vehicles or from the police to get up there, I just feel like there's a concern about parking. So how can you address that situation for me? Make me feel like it's a good situation.

We actually have a, we passed a new order that's on parking, I don't know if you knew that or not. you can't you can only make 12 feet i think you can only block 12 feet so somebody couldn't park across the street from cut it off it'd have to be 12 feet you have to at least 12 feet 12 feet of what of roadway as far as the two cars he's only required to have two two car uh parking for two cars okay at least two so there's six cars you gotta be parked up there and that little walk

But it's going from just two houses that was there before to three. I know, but still, I mean, I'm just saying that that's a concern for me about the driving. Because seriously, when I went up there, I was like, I barely had one car to get through that.

So the truck with the construction trailer, that is not property.

Can I interject real quick? Yes. So in regard to the Board of Zoning Appeals and what its role is in regard to the process, is that there cannot be any independent investigations performed by a board member.

I'm not, I'm just driving through the area and seeing, just checking out to make sure, to see what it's looking like. Okay. To be an informed person to make a decision on this, I need to see how the streets are being maintained. As a, just about good conscience, I feel like.

I understand. I don't know the extent, I don't know the extent of what, I heard what you said, I don't understand it, but it's based on what the information is provided to the VAZ, primarily, and any questions that may derive from that particular information. That's fine. But I'm just, I'm pointing it out.

That's fine, I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to do an independent study. I'm just, I drove up and I saw a concern about driveways. And I think that's my concern. Now I don't know what the other board members feel like, but for me personally, I think this is a, unless someone's gonna be able to address parking up there and we're gonna police it, I don't see how we're gonna fix it for emergency vehicles to get through there. If there's any type of issue, one car is not good enough to get through that for me, my personal opinion. Either we need to fix how the parking's happening up there, Because it's a really small area to build three houses.

But you said they're going to have double driveways, right?

Single driveway, 12 foot deep, right?

12 foot, single or double? Each house will have a driveway for two vehicles. Okay.

Well, that would take care of all of your cars, right?

Yeah, it should. Two cars per residence. And the only reason that the truck is parking over there is because this is the first time I'm ever hearing about it that it's a concern or an issue. I can address it with him and see if he can make accommodations to park elsewhere. But the other property that we do not own on Audubon, those people parking on the road, I have no control over that. But all the other houses that we own on Audubon, they're all driveway parking.

We'll go up there and take a look at it as part of that new ordinance that we passed.

I'm just, my concern is parking. I don't want the streets to be congested where people can't drive through. And I think that's starting to become a problem. Certainly with all these people buying all these little town homes and things, people are having more than two cars. And people are parking on the street. Or if guests come over, you've got a person that's in the driveway and they have to park on the street. And it's just a concern for me that these driveways that we're developing are not accommodating for more than two cars, apparently. Sure, I'm starting to get that, but, you know, I went, you know, again, I, to the person, you know, what's your name, sir, by the way?

Well, Perry McCall, I'm a town attorney, or city attorney. That's fine.

I get your point, I'm not trying to be judgmental about this, it's just my concern, Derek, is just, that's just my concern about deriving, and... the emergency vehicles getting through certain streets.

And let me make one more point about that. Okay. For example, you're just providing some information about what your observations were, okay? Yeah. So what about driving through there? Well, the other individual members do not necessarily have that to partake in that information. So if you wanted to go visit the area to make that assessment, I think it would be a group. It would have to be if our procedures allow for that. So everybody's seeing what you're seeing at the same time you're seeing it. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.

And I'm not saying that that's a... Again, I agree with you. I mean, yeah, we could go up there. I was just trying, you know, always trying to make sure I was well informed about what I'm voting on because as a citizen and on this board, I want to make sure that I'm doing my due diligence for everybody to make sure that the developer has their information and you're like, okay, this is what we're doing. I mean, Derek, a lot of things you've done in this town, I'm okay with. I have no problem. But I see this block here and I'm seeing, I'm like, okay, what are we doing here? You know, how are we going to put the cars? I've seen the plots and I'm like, I don't know if the other gentleman's, anybody else, that's why I reached out for Tony, to get some clarification about what was going on with this property here. So, I, it's, whatever else wants to think about anything, the discussion's fine, but that's fine.

This is just my concern, but how is he being held responsible for what the other people who are already living there are doing if he has available parking for his cars? Do you know what I'm saying? I see what you're saying. Yeah, he's only representing what he is. I do. I understand exactly what you're saying. So what can we do to resolve the issue? Because that can't be his personal.

It's my way of requiring two parking spaces and that's what he's got. Like I said, we just passed that a couple months ago. So we'll take a look at that. We haven't had any complaints up there yet. With this going on, we probably will. So we'll come up there. Like I said, the The orbit says that you can't have more than, they can't have less than 12 feet between, so if you don't, like the Tamberry Oaks is perfect. There's streets out there where people are parking on both sides. And it gets real small. Well, that's why we did that. Okay, you have to have 12 feet in between. So we go out there and measure it, so somebody's gonna have to move. And the good thing, I think, about this is they own most of the lots up there, so. You talked to the guy about the truck. Do you think the truck's a big deal?

No, I think there's more than one car there. I mean, again, I'm just saying that truck's not the only issue. There's multiple cars there in that area. It's not just one person. It's multiple cars. So, again, my concern is for emergency vehicles and for police to respond to certain issues. And if there's an issue there where we can't get through there, then that's a problem. When a police officer's on fire...

The 12 foot thing was, we actually put that through when we were doing that ordinance through the fire department and the police department. That's when they came back with the 12 feet.

And what's the square footage of that one smaller house that you have seen? Because the other one looks a bit smaller.

So all three new homes proposed at 750 square feet. That's larger than the current home next door that we own. That's 670 square feet.

Was that one of the original homes up there?

That was the original home.

And on this diagram I have of your development here, where are the driveways being put at?

The two facing Spring Street, they'll be in between. So the house on the left, the driveway will be to the right. The house on the right, the driveway will be to the left. So they're kind of side by side. And then the one facing Audubon, the driveway will be to the right.

So it's going to be on the right of that house. Okay. All right.

Did they do any kind of sidewalks up there?

No, no sidewalks up there.

I didn't think they were.

Anybody else want to make any comments or anything, discussion?

I'll stick with what I say. I don't think he should be responsible for everybody else's parking if he has available parking for his property and his cars.

Yeah, he can't control whether to do it.

Yeah, so let's figure out what we can do about that issue. In itself, but I don't think he's... I think I just want to know what compounded the problem there.

I understand what you're saying also. Yeah, once he develops it, then what happens after the fact? That's my next problem. What's going to happen to the area? He can develop that property, that's fine. He has a right to develop it in a certain way, but the question is, what happens with the after effects of all these buildings up there? The car, the congestion, all that. I mean, that's my next question. Are we going to make it a one-side park only? I mean, is that something that the council can do, that they can only park on one side of this road so there's room?

A lot of quantity.

Yeah.

They can.

I mean, I don't know if Trudy would want to do that or not, or the council can do that or not, but I mean, it just seems like it's getting really, when I drive up there, there's barely one room for one car. That was my concern. Yeah. That's a real concern.

That's a valid concern.

If it becomes a problem, we can take it to the W's here, so he's concerned about it getting congested there.

Getting congested on Spring Street. On an automobile. Well, the way the ordinance reads right now, it has to be 12 foot in between the vehicles, side to side, and they have to be staggered. So if it starts becoming a problem, then we have to start taking it that way.

Then all else fails, we take it to the board, get one side parking, which would be the side where they have the fire hydrant.

so we've been in one car garage or one car driveway no two car two side side to side or back to back back to back so it's not side by side requires it just says two cars okay the parking on spring street would be almost suicide sometimes especially right there in the curb yeah you can't do that

I mean, I wish there was a way to put like an extra parking out or like curb parking, you know, or a little extra curb on that end right there. Just something to make it so people could park off and not be in the road. That's my biggest concern about that whole situation. Because right now, I mean, I just see people having guests over and they get more cars parking in the street. And that's my biggest concern about this whole project. It's like, I want to keep people off the streets if I can so it's safer.

Just to speak to your comment about additional parking. I can't say this for the Spring Street houses, but the one I've been there is enough room I can make that wider to put a combination additional parking spot there.

We're over here in this little area right here. Can I come up here? Yeah.

I'm sorry.

You don't want to do it here or do you want to do it here?

I can make that wider to get another spot in there.

But that would probably help. I mean, that's about all I can do about that story. And if you can do that, then I'd be okay. I just don't want a bunch of people parking on the streets. I fear for that, because we see that in different areas where people are just loading up the streets and you can't get through. So Wayne, he's talking about putting additional parking right here on this area, right here. Any two bedrooms?

They'll look very similar to the floor plan on McThompson Street.

Okay. Very similar look. Okay.

Okay. Where'd you get the square footage?

You feel okay now? I mean, if he does a little additional parking up there for everybody, then I think we'd be, I think I'd be all right with it. What's everybody else thoughts?

I'll follow your lead on that if you feel good that he has that additional parking space there. Wayne, what do you think?

I'm fine with it. Okay.

I'll make a motion to approve the variance. What stipulations have been put in additional parking in that one corner of Audubon?

I'll make that motion. I'll second it.

Okay, all in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, motion. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Anybody else? Any other things else to go about? All right, I do know we have to do something else after the meeting with Trudeau, right? So what? We're not going to vote for a president and all that this case if we're missing two members? Yeah, we're still waiting on two good things. All right. All right. No more public comments. All right, I'll make a motion to adjourn. I'll second it.

I'll second, third, whatever.

All right, we're going to adjourn it.