City Council - Regular Meeting

We're a few minutes late. [snorts] [clears throat] Uh, so let's go ahead and get started. Um, did you say you had something for me to follow up? Well, I thought you had said that.

Yes, I did. I did. um that was for followup or for going forward. So, just a couple things, council. Um in speaking with the mayor and vice mayor, you'll note on your March 3rd upcoming agenda, we're making a small change to take anything that is $500,000 or greater of city expense and put it on the non-consent agenda as just a routine matter. So, you may see that popping up um starting on March 3rd. We'll also have a quick uh premeating on the federal earmark projects that we've identified. And then I wanted to just draw your attention in case uh you notice on March 3rd the authorizing of an amendment to the water rate adjustment uh to let you know that that item is just to correct a scrivener's error, an oversight. There's nothing substantive. So when you see that, don't worry that there's something money issue coming forward. there is not. And then lastly, um you'll see the capital budget review is coming up on March 10th. Um we will bring two memos to give you a bit deeper dive as part of that work session into the business center and also into the fire station one project and sharing what we know about both of those projects at this time. So that'll be coming and it's not apparent in the title, [clears throat] but it will be part of it. And I believe everything I have. Um, you asked a question just one more thing about um, uh, the police department and mobile crisis unit and Chief Cheney has completed a memo on. So if you have questions after that, feel free to reach out.

Awesome. Thank you. Welcome. Any other meeting followup? Did anybody like to speak? Okay. Well, let's go ahead and start with our first item. Uh, peace and our cities. Thank you, Mayor. I can do it, please. That'd be great.

Mayor, council, so back in December, u there was a presentation from the team that went to Edmonton uh with some of their takeaways and and key points that they learned during that visit. Um council seemed to express the most interest in taking a deeper dive with regard to 247 um crisis response. Um it just so happens that uh CWCC along with several other nonprofit um and local government partners have been working on standing up a mobile crisis unit. So rather than uh coming back and and starting from scratch, um the group uh has been working together to to really present to you tonight kind of the state of those efforts um and and some uh uh steps forward uh to to build that program out as well as a little bit of a discussion um around some of the other efforts that that kind of feed into that effort. So, um, without further ado, I'll turn it over to Gila Sutherland who, uh, headed up the the group to Edmonton, and she'll take us through the, uh, presentation. Hi,

hi Mayor, city manager, council. Hi, everyone. Um, good to see you again. Um, I think Eric, you miss the attorney, [laughter] you uh, Mr. attorney. Um I think you uh covered a lot of what I was going to talk about. Um just kind of reminding how we have come to this point. So um just as a quick reminder um the city of Casper joined peace in our cities last year um as part of its commitment to working on violence reduction in the community. Um, peace in our cities isn't necessarily there to start uh new programming that is peace in our cities branded, but it's there as a partner and a supporter and a connector when it comes to helping communities meet their goals around violence um reduction. Um, so two of the main goals um that that we've heard and that has that have been discussed here in Casper are related to youth violence and community violence. Um, and part of one of the programs that peace in our cities offers is the city exchange program. So, as you have in your packet, uh, there's the report from the city exchange that took place in Edmonton last year. And since then, the group of us that went and additional local partners have been meeting to try to understand what was learned, what key takeaways were there, and what might be able to move forward here in Casper. So the program um and the ideas that we're here to discuss today are really related to community um community violence and mobile crisis response that is that is um both preventive and responsive to um violence and behavioral health issues um in the community. There are ongoing efforts related to youth violence but those are in different stages of of readiness for understanding partnership and understanding in particular the role of the city. So, um, it's not that that that there's not room to move forward on

that. It's just that it's a different stage in development. Um, so I actually don't have a lot more to say. I I will just end with um introducing that we've been trying to kind of come up with a bit of a framework for how to understand the ways that the mobile crisis unit will support our community. Um, you've obviously seen that there's strong support from the police department to partner with a response unit like this and the the positive ways that that impacts both their ability to focus on the strengths that they have, but also to really meet the actual needs of those who are in crisis. Um, and so the framework that we've come up with is is kind of three tiers, three levels. Um the first is really focused on uh deflecting and um outreach response which really more on the prevention spectrum. Um and then the second two deal more with response and and how a mobile crisis unit can work with city entities and also community entities to really respond um and meet the needs of of our um citizens and to help make this community safer and stronger. So with that I will stop and I believe up next. Um and then we also will have um other partners who are here and available to answer questions too once we kind of get through our our spiel here. So thanks for having us back.

Hello. [clears throat] Hi. I'm Kelly Wessles. I'm with Community Action Partnership, but I'm also representing Anna Kinder from the community health department because she is unable to be with us tonight. And we've been working on a system level of level one deflection and outreach response which is a more simplistic and doable right now type of activity. Um the purpose is that in at level one that it establishes a more proactive prevention firstline kind of community safety and health model. It's outreach but with some additional benefits. And Casper is not starting at zero. The infrastructure actually does exist between several agencies. It's creating the alignment of those agencies that we're working at at this current time in order to be able to deploy it correctly. [snorts] And this was something that they saw in Edmonton. I happen to be familiar with the Alberta model. So they're very similar. And we have an operating living system right now of assets. community health workers, peer navigators with lived experience, embedded outreach workers, a functional um mobile unit that I have under my agency which um for healthcare for the homeless uh coordinated supplies um and we have good trauma-informed expertise. We also part by partnering with public safety partners, we have an ability to achieve a different level of stabilization out in the field. So it's not conceptual capacity that we're talking about at this point in level one. It's actually operational capacity and the opportunity is the alignment. Um prevention replaces reaction and stability replaces crisis. So when you go out and you're actually meeting

people where they're at, which is what exactly engagement looks like, is that community health workers and teams of CHWs, peer navigators, and public safety entities can go out and see people right on the street right now, meet them where they're at, have a conversation, provide um maybe a meal, and look at some health assessment in real time. It's an ability to provide some things in time to relationship build and and be proactive in in our intervention aspects rather than having to be reactive. It has not happened. We are now just wrapping around that opportunity because we have the assets to deploy and we're already doing it independently. So, we will be much more powerful when we do it together. Um, some of the things that we get to do is that it also provides an opportunity to change the narrative on public safety representation to make them more of a part of a relationship building rather than just seen as a punitive response in a very early stage. Warm handoffs to other providers in the community you just haven't made it to yet. Um, followup and continuity. looking at this as a real con um continuum of care and the success you know programs don't change systems aligned structures do culture and execution so success is going to depend on coordinated governance among all of us uh shared data looking what's trending where is it trending at what do we what can we get ahead of what is not our lane and what is somebody else's lane and how that can

manage within this level one um area. Jasper is a unique area because it does have a lot of the tools. It has the trust um and it has credibility among its partners. And I think that we've seen this um where we have we're having this discussion within the um U Council on Safety of Justice is that we really have an opportunity to just do this now and set the stage and take care of some of the lower level issues so that Mobile Crisis can really be invested in and be invested in to the level that will provide the quality that Mobile Crisis needs. at level two. So we do not see this as these are different stages. They are different. They have different outcomes, but it is a stage that's important so that the other can flourish and be a real community asset.

Any questions for Kelly? I think I forgot to ask. If anybody any questions for you, I apologize. I didn't mean to slide you. Any questions for Kelly? Okay, good. Thank you so much. Not yet. Not yet. Maybe we'll bring you back up here, guys. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [clears throat]

Uh I'm I'm Jim Cowser. I'm the CEO at Central Wyoming Counseling Center. We are the community behavioral health center uh for Jonah County. Uh with me, it's Jason Merrick. He's the program supervisor for our mobile crisis team. We wanted to share with you what current state is, what our horizon is, and what our goals are. Kelly stated about alignment is also um optimal execution of response. So currently we have Monday through Friday from 10:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. a response team available uh with the unit. Our goal in in three months is to have seven days a week of response uh during that 10 to 10 window and and also forming a partnership with Casper Fires uh similar to our partnership with Casper PD and the Toronto County Sheriff with with CIT teams in being able to explore a community parame medicine model that our um mental health workers would be able to respond along with a community paramedic and address issues to triage to um deflect from the emergency department uh deflect from officers having to take people in and sit with them and be out be off patrol and to look at cost savings to both the individual as well as the community. Um, so we there's a little bit of statistics in this as well. I know we're we're short on time, so I want to make sure that you've got something to look over and Jason's here with me to be able to answer some day-to-day operational questions. Come up with me.

Hello, Mr. Mayor, council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. Uh, Central Wyoming Counseling Center provides rapid community-based crisis intervention services throughout Morron County through our mobile crisis response team or MCRT. Our team is comprised of behavioral health professionals trained to respond in the community and deescalate crisis that are related to mental health conditions, substance use disorders, alcohol or drugrelated behavioral health crisis. Our mission is simple. provide immediate behavioral health intervention while reducing unnecessary emergency department visits and law enforcement involvement. CD CWCC serves as the lead partner for level two behavioral health mobile crisis. Our primary function is onseene behavioral health and substance use assessment, crisis stabilization, rapid response when mental health support is needed, deflection from emergency departments and jail operations. We operate independently alongside level one outreach, direct referral pathways from level one teams or dispatch, and we co-respond and/or escalation to EMS or law enforcement when appropriate. Some of our key outcomes have been immediate behavioral health intervention, reduced unnecessary emergency emergency department visits, and reduced law enforcement involvement. Our team operates daily from 10:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Community members, providers, and partners can call 3073378842 24 hours a day to connect with the team. Every call is screened for risk and safety. We respond to behavioral health crisis calls that do not involve medical emergencies, weapons, or known threats of violence. If those are present, 911 remains appropriate. Our team can stabilize the crisis through intervention and deescalation, provide transportation to behavioral health

services, connect individuals to community resources, and coordinate initial treatment services. We are not an emergency response agency. We are clinical behavioral health response system designed to fill the gap before crisis becomes incarceration or hospitalization. for September through today. Um we've seen as far as our outreach goes, we've seen in September we saw one outreach. October, November, December all two outreaches per month. January we saw six outreaches and this month so far we've had two. We have proactively communicated with providers to ensure availability for mobile clinic outreach opportunities and this reflects our relationship building, our education and early intervention, preventing escalation before crisis response is needed. Our call volume has been 60 actual mobile crisis calls since October. As you can see, it was it's been trending upward ever since October when we started tracking uh to uh reach its peak in last month at 19. And so far this month, we're at eight calls. We saw steady growth um from fall into winter and January, representing our highest utilization month. The trend reflects increased community awareness and growing trust in the program. Transport activity. In addition to crisis stabilization, our team provided multiple transports to appropriate behavioral health behavioral health services. The transports represent diversion from emergency departments, diversion from jail, safe placement into treatment, and reduced burden on law enforcement. The system impact the mobile crisis response team helps the city of Casper by providing immediate onseen behavioral health intervention, reducing unnecessary emergency department utilization, supporting law enforcement deflection efforts, reducing jail bookings related to behavioral health, and increasing access to appropriate treatment pathways. This is a community

stabilizing strategy, not just a crisis response model. Mobile crisis response represents a shift from reaction to prevention. Instead of arrest, hospitalization, escalization, we provide stabilization, deescalization, connect to connection to treatment, and hope. As our materials say, hope is here. We appreciate the city's partnership and look forward to continued collaboration and strengthening Casper's behavioral health response system. Thank you. Any questions for Jason? Yeah, sorry. I didn't see you behind there. Go ahead, Brandy. Please talk yourself out.

Okay. I want to start by saying I'm not going to ask you to dumb it down. I'm going to say real world

how this works. So my first question was going to be how do we get a hold of you? But I see there's a phone number. So I actually have so many questions. Y'all tell me when you're bored. My first one that I would like you to help me picture. I kind of picture a mobile ambulance that's full of social workers and that's not really my visualization, but I talked to a kid once who had a really good idea that sounded like that. So, one, how do you do it? And two, who knows to call this number and give me like an example of what you're currently doing in your social worker ambulance, which in my brain is what I currently have. So, you can probably have several vehicles that we use. Some of them are not as exciting as the ambulance. Some of them are just a Toyota caravan or what are they?

They're little minivan Siennas. But we do have a mobile outreach van which is pretty fancy that we're real proud of. But that's retain mostly for when we provide services in the community such as telealth visits or other um services from our organization. So what basically what's going on is we've got two people at the center right now at 14:30 local circle that are on standby. And if you were to call that number right now and say, "Look, I've got a person that's that's in a mental health crisis. I don't know what to do." They would get your name, the address, ask some some qualifying information, and then within 15 to 20 minutes, they would be knocking at the door. So, they would ask that person to come outside and talk to them for a while. We would do a risk assessment. We've determined eligibility for multiple services from Banner to WBI to um CSS at at at CWCC which is the crisis stabilization services unit up there on the campus or perhaps residential drug treatment or outpatient drug treatment. [clears throat] Um, and once those services were determined they were eligible for these services, we would coordinate the transport to that service. If the scene was safe, if they were not combative, if they weren't violent, if they um, and there's a there's a cap on on the blood alcohol level that we can transport on. So, they've got to be able to function and able to walk on their own. We and if if they're not, we'll coordinate an emergent ambulance or an e ambulance if needed to the hospital for stabilization. If that's the case, they get to the hospital, we keep tabs on them. We stay in close contact with the case management team at Banner and we arrange to go back and get them when they're ready to be discharged and come up for treatment if they if they desire that.

So that's kind of in a nutshell how it all functions on a daily basis. Yeah. What do you think you think about back up just a little bit? So even more basic, is it more likely rather than would somebody call 911 That is my next question. Stop. Go for it. I am taking back the floor. Let's go ahead and let Brandy have a moment [clears throat] [laughter] to ask her questions. So, who knows to call this number.

So, more and more people are learning about this every day and as as we've seen in our call volume that's increasing month by month and we hope that it keeps growing. We'd love to be able to hire some more people to get them in there as the need presents itself. So far, um, the hospital, a lot of the general public, a lot of our clientele that have completed and then reentered society and there's a crisis for them or or someone nearby, a family member, a loved one, they know they know to call um the police department knows to call Chief Cheney. Um, he's asked we we've done ride alongs with Casper PD and um we're going to be more embedded into the normal operations once we've sat in on a day's worth of dispatch. Um, so he's asked that we could that we participate in the dispatch for a day to see how it all works and then we kind of figure out how we're going to fit into that dispatch call. And essentially it would mean this the scene has been has deter been determined safe by the by the officer on scene and that there's a mental health crisis or substance use issue that that we could respond to and that the officer's discretion could be used to alleviate to to divert them from going up to the jail down over to our services. That was my exact next question. So our goal is at least maybe positively here that [clears throat] maybe they can just call 911 and someone there will be like this might not be or will the police go and be like this isn't us and then you guys come and then that's because my next question was who decides it's safe for you and not and do we have to have two separate numbers or is it going to ultimately be 911?

It will be both. It will be 911 and that number on on the page there. It'll be with the fire department. It'll be with EMS and it'll be with the police department and it would be us as in all of us. The officer on scene would determine that it's safe to bring us in. I they probably would stay until we make a judgment call on whether we can use we can take them up to the center or they could need to go to the hospital or or if they want to take them to jail ultimately. So, we'd have to kind of base it upon the the exchange, the interaction with the patient and the officer's discretion and, you know, the other factors that that might play into that decision-m process. One more and then I'll let you.

So, right now, if they call [clears throat] you directly, the police aren't necessarily involved or or do you have an officer that's going with you to make sure it's a Right now, we do not. So that that phone number is to a a crisis line that's um someone will answer that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. They're at our center. So that phone number will not summon law enforcement unless we call them to come with us, which is and you guys make that judgment call. We feel like we're okay to go check it out or not,

right? And situations have come up like they call us and they say, "Well, my boyfriend has barricaded himself in the apartment and he's got a knife." And that would be like, okay, well, we're going to call 911 and that that needs to be handled by the police department. Or if they just say, you know, we're we don't know what to do. He's been drinking for 5 days and, you know, we're we're concerned and he's stumbling around outside and causing a scene. And then we would go over there and assess the situation as long as he wasn't violent or, you know, hurting anyone or or safe enough for us to approach. Okay, that answers my questions. Go ahead. All right, Pat. Do you have any follow-ups from that or clarification? Is that good?

See what happens when you wait. See, [laughter] thank you, mayor. Love you, Pat. I'm embarrassed for myself. [laughter] It's okay. I'm really controlling tonight. It's It's not on you. This was my time. Other questions [clears throat] for Jason or John? Yep.

Thanks, Mayor. Thanks, gentlemen. And everyone else who spoke for all the information. Um, so kind of like councelor Haskins and uh probably councelor Sweeney just still trying to wrap my head around what this looks like in practice. So do you foresee either in the short term or the long term I'm thinking of like a welfare check uh somebody hasn't shown up for work for a couple days. We don't have any other context other than uh they haven't shown up for work and their friends are worried about them. Is that a call that you guys would potentially respond to? There's

possibly but going on to going to uninvited to a private residence is not something that unlike law enforcement that's not something that we're covered to be able to do. So if we don't have contact from that person willing if somebody at the residence isn't the one calling there's some challenges there for us to you know we so we I think there's evolution here as Kelly mentioned alignment within level two with with our partner agencies to look at what the best solution for some of those things are. Um [snorts] the goal obviously is to have law enforcement remain on patrol and have these kinds of incidents be able to be managed by a by a team. Um and community parame medicine is a great way to do that and provide that. Um then there's opportunity for triage and medical and those kind of assessments to be handled right then so that we're not unnecessarily calling an ambulance. Our team's not qualified to assess that medically. So we sometimes are using banner more frequently than maybe is necessary but we're not qualified to make that call in the field. So,

thank you. Appreciate it. Sorry, not to spend the whole night with hypotheticals, but um again, just trying to understand the process. Uh let's use a different example. Maybe somebody downtown appears inebriated or under the influence of drugs. Um is that something that you guys would be the first touch on? And then if if they don't accept treatment or don't want to be uh work with your mobile team to get access to treatment and stuff at that point, you just call the police and it becomes a criminal like a um just trying to wrap my head around where you guys respond to and under what circumstances you escalate to the police.

U in a in a public space like that, we could respond first and try to engage somebody. Um, I think one of the things that being the community meal health center, we our teams already often know a lot of the folks that are going through some of these things. They have chronic conditions that have been treated for years with us and so forth. And so sometimes there's even a rapport that's available for us to access. Yeah. At that point and then um we we would want to avoid calling PD if possible. Uh you know, just looking if there's any, as Jason mentioned, any unsafe behavior or like that. But, you know, the the goal is to be able to engage people in the community and get them connected to resources and services, whether it's Banner ED or or whether it's WBI or our our facilities. Any questions?

Yeah, Michael, I'll get you back. Jim, good to see you. Glad you made it. Thank you, sir. Uh, one of the things that I'm glad you said something about building a rapport with some of them. Uh, when we were when I was riding with the response team up in Edmonton, we would stop and several of the unhoused there would recognize the girls that I was riding with and come over and start talking to them and ask questions. So, I'm I'm hoping that we will get to that point here where you'll be able to uh recognize people and know what their situations are. already seeing some of that.

Yeah. And it's it's why it's really important that the level two response is coordinated with level one and so that during the prevention and outreach, you know, they remembered a cup of coffee and a sandwich that our team was there as well. So that we're not only getting there when when it's a crisis, but there's some ability to build relationship and find that, you know, over time folks kind of can come around being more willing to receive services once they get to know people. Excellent. Okay. So is there protocol though on um is it title 72 or title [clears throat] 27 25 voluntary hospitalization?

Yeah. I mean [clears throat] are are those protocols so that there's some paid um on some of this or is there a different funding model in place? Um, you know, I I'm not quite and I I I'm thinking in my own mind the safest bet is for, you know, say a downtown business or somebody still to call 911 and then let you know the police department then call in.

That's been our practice over the last year. the police department has wanted them to come and assess a scene first and then they they make a call to us to come out. The ultimate goal would be to have it have an established team be able to do that in lie of having law enforcement brought in. But right now for safety, our our partners at PD have asked that their CIT officers be able to be involved and make sure things are secured and then with their discretion they can leave the scene and let us kind of handle it. has been most common scenario to the payment portion. How how might that look or work? [clears throat]

Um there are some minimal payment options through the Department of Health contract that we have. It's not a sustainable model. Currently, we're operating and submitting grants on a year-to-year basis to fund and the team. So, that's how funding is going. there is with partner agencies. I mean, right now, currently, the protocols for title 25 generally don't involve our team. We don't we can't transport once that happens. They're going into custody. So, it's got to be an ambulance or law enforcement and then they go through banner ED. But, this would allow if people didn't need that kind of service and weren't [clears throat] at a point of title 25 that we could alleviate some of that traffic in the ED possibly. You know, a lot of it substance use detox, those kind of things. the folks that are going in. The ability to reduce the burden on that team is part of the goal of working together. But my from our understanding, the process currently is working pretty smoothly with WBI and Banner Health with Title 25 checks or cash would be fine. [laughter]

Can I ask a real quick question here? Yeah. Yeah. Y Well, actually, well, go ahead and can I jump in, Mike? Sure. And I'll

just very quickly So, so I think what's being discussed here is much broader than title 25. So there's very specific legal criteria that have to be met um due to a mental illness, they have to be either a danger to themselves or others are unable to care for their basic daily needs with or without assistance. And so if the primary diagnosis is a alcohol dependency or or drug use that doesn't qualify for title 25. And so my experience in handling these is those often get kicked um out of the ED. Um so so really this I think the the interactions that we're talking about and and the response is is is really much broader. Um unfortunately a lot of that doesn't come with a revenue source or a funding source.

I did notice health. So if I could just ask a real quick question. I'm jumping right in front of Michael and I apologize. Um, so talking [clears throat] about sustainability, you guys were kind of mentioning the financial impact of you guys trying to run this. I guess two questions. One, does this generally come out of the operation budgets of the CWCC for you guys to handle that? You guys have, and maybe I missed it, grants. Um, what financial support do you guys have and what's the sustainability around doing something like that? I think that's important. And I think thirdly um is is the trust uh financially backing this and giving you money for it?

And I know that's kind of tough question. So

the initial would be it's braided funding. So some of it is is federal pass through grants through the department of health. Um other opportunities are um some of it is general operating funds from CWCC's providing. So for instance a referral into treatment you know goes into general operating. We pull some of that. And then a third part of it is also looking at um opportunities for sustainability. Right now it it is year-toear uh and and a challenge to go 247 for us. Um our goal and strategy is to try to partner better as Kelly mentioned with partner agencies including fires and PD uh to be able to colllocate and co-respond. So then our the number of team members on our um [clears throat] salary schedule can can be cut down and and partnered up with folks. So then it doesn't necessarily increase the the cost at any agency. We're just partnering together better and more more fluidly. Most nationally, most programs that run really well and sustainably are line item budgets in the county and city in addition to partnership with healthcare funding and some grants. But um without it, it's a very difficult process to sustain.

And and to my last point, is the trust supporting you financially? Uh well, we they we do receive a general operating grant from them. Nothing specific to the mobile crisis team, but but we we did receive their general operating grant. So in indirectly, yes, they're very supportive. Specifically to this initiative, we currently don't have any specific um grant funding for it. Okay, that's what I Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yep. Uh, Michael, sorry about that.

Thank you, mayor. Um, no. I just wanted to touch for a minute on um on the youth youth uh and and juvenile violence as it kind of relates to maybe not necessarily the mobile uh response team, but um I know that kind of I think some [clears throat] of the impetus I think for peace in our cities was kind of came not only from the challenges we face with with individuals who are unhoused but but also with um a couple of of couple violent issue or events we had in the in the community in the last two or three years um that that raise some alarm. And when I think of those, I sure there's others, but um you know, it's not necessarily like gang violence, but it's it's what I think of is my impression is like like conflicts between youth, in other words. Um, and so I'm that's kind of what I'm wondering [clears throat] is is does that fit into the picture of because I know there's like a communitywide violence prevention initiative. Um I know and I've had a lot of contact with the youth mental health collective that you know and and I think that's some good work that the collective is doing and that the through the trust um that is you know it's reaching into those um middle school and high school youth to kind of get their perceptions and I think I think in some senses creating some awareness that maybe wasn't there before and whether it's getting all the nooks and crannies and people that it needs to that's a whole challenge But um I'm just wondering what if if you have any immediate kind of concrete ideas for how to how to start and it's a very ambiguous very challenging topic. So I'm just wondering if you have if you have some thoughts that direction.

Yeah. And I know Jai also could speak to a lot of this. There is a lot of activity going on.

Yeah. And and I think progress being made because it the phenomenon that you're talking about is very different than a a specific response to a mental health crisis. Uh it's it's not symptomatic in the same way. And youth response is very complicated because they can't consent. So we don't go out on youth calls unless we've got to have a consenting adult before we can engage them because we're a mental health provider. So it complicates a bit. Um we're involved more in our participation in we have therapist counselors inside the schools and and working on some programming and some different things with with the collective and other agencies including Boys and Girls Club. So having on-site counselors there that are more involved in day-to-day. So one of the things we've we've worked out with Boys and Girls Club is a curriculum for all of their coaches that enhances their ability and awareness for mental health and violence reduction. So they're having those conversations with their coaches and with their counselors at afterchool programs and so if there's a need arising they're able to to make referrals a little bit better. So that's that's been Wyoming's place. And then we're we do have an initiative submitted to a foundation with the youth crisis center to cooperate and create some residential um housing or I should say group home housing with highintensity treatment support for youth at the youth youth crisis center. Uh we're we're still waiting. we should hear in April whether or not that initiative goes forward. So there's a lot of efforts that a lot more than than that that are going on in the community, but those are some I could speak to from from our agency. Yeah, I think I mean I think the only other thing that I would mention is just um part of the reason that we can have this conversation about mobile crisis is because many of the key players and the processes and the strategies were understood and under development, you know, kind of along the same time as we were investigating and learning from Edmonton. And so there's still a lot that we learned in Edmonton, but we're trying to make sure that it's aligned with the the work that's ongoing. So,

you know, Leanne at the trust, I mean, the trust has been a tremendous partner. Obviously, our community is so lucky to have them. They've been leading and so we're trying to learn through their mental their youth mental health collective as well and the work that they're doing there. There's [clears throat] also a mapping they're doing um this Thursday and Friday. And so we're hoping that what we can do is, you know, learn more about what the core needs are here and then are there things that we, you know, programs or strategies that Edmonton had that may map on to to what we're doing here. But we're just trying to make sure we're doing it mindfully and rather than, you know, having different things pop up. I will say I had a call the other day and there is potentially some interest in trying to pilot um with with partners here. maybe some interest in looking at the boxing club that was started in Bristol and seeing if there's maybe an opportunity to to work with local partners here and do something similar which is really focused on um providing you know trauma-informed care and and mental health services through activity and and action and sport. And so we've got partners through peace nurses that can connect but again we just want to make sure that it's all mindful and coordinated with partners who are already doing that work. And um so definitely it is not off the table. Um it's just that it's at a different level of readiness, I guess, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Thank you. Go ahead,

Brandon. Brand us back to the subject. Anyway, let me [laughter] started this. Okay, so financially I'm visualizing here and grants are great. I feel like you got a little opioid money in there, too. So look, we helped. But um I feel like if this works, I'm guessing here, so tell me where I'm wrong, but if this starts working and it becomes a functioning part of a lot of our calls, then maybe funding will come from the chief who's not here. He's going to be so sad. I didn't call him out in person, but maybe money out of PD, maybe something out of fire because they don't do as many call outs. I'm looking right at you. you stood up. So maybe Banner is going to participate a little because you're not throwing all the patients directly to the ER. Is that kind of how this works as a group where it's long-term sustainable by everybody that is not paying billions of dollars out of their pockets for these potentially unnecessary [clears throat] calls to support this? Is that the bigger picture, the long-term goal?

Yes, that that is. Um, and one of the things we've got with with the groups that are working on this is we've we've all contri um we're all participating in a data collection instrument that'll allow us to run and really have more um actual hard numbers around cost deferment and and those kind of things and the numbers of folks deflected and not not you know being moved in through the really again kind of clear clearing out so that banner ED is getting clients that really need to be in an ED and folks that can do lower level treatments and and and interventions are able to move in and do that. So, yeah, that that is the the goal or the idea is that if we're all doing better in saving, then we could we could share the responsibility and serve the community without having to come in with just a hat hat out passing it around asking everybody to find money that we don't have uh somewhere else. But I am on record not asking for the chief's budget to be [laughter] just one. That's it.

So, I think you're spot on. It's it's a group effort. um which is why we're all here together. Uh I in other communities I've worked in I was the uh CEO of a hospital in Arizona community of 17,000 people. Uh it had a fully functioning 247 crisis intervention mobile crisis intervention team. A lot of that was covered by Medicaid expansion. I I understand that is a bad word here in the state of Wyoming, but that's where a lot of that funding came from. And so in the current political situation, we have to rely on each other. It has to be an effort. The more we do, meeting patients in the crisis means the fewer that are actually put on one of those holds, which means they're not going to go to an impatient uh holding or inatient uh behavioral health hospital, which means they're not going to lose their job, which means they're not going to lose their apartment and, you know, continue that that downward cycle. If we meet people in the crisis, they don't end up in a in an ambulance, they don't end up in the hospital, that frees up our bed so we can care for the strokes, heart attacks, uh you know, the really acute need. Um, and then and then they can be met in the community, receive outpatient treatment. Um, but it's going to take it's going to take everybody uh working on this together. It's it hits everybody.

Finish. Yes, you may finish. I skipped over Kyle. So, I'm sorry, Kyle. I feel I felt bad. Go ahead, Brandon.

Okay. So, we collect data just on the court level of our diversion stopped this many days in jail. So my thought process is that this is actually going to be reasonably easy data for you to collect and at the end of the day say well we saved you this [clears throat] we saved you this we saved you this. So we you should have a pretty good idea of how as this works and as this grows who you're helping how much we're saving. So you can tell all of us [clears throat] again tell Lance how much money you saved him. So the banner is like yes we'll throw some money at you. The city can say well we now don't have to pay the jail a million dollars. We saved this much. So it this is like through actual data that we can actually collect. We can actually see hard numbers and progress not just the stories which of course everybody likes a story but also you're looking at us in money. So this is we can see it we can make a change and this is something that can happen sooner rather than later. Right.

I was going to have what's that? Is there a downside? So, I'll have our city manager, our city attorney ask answer some of your

question. No, I I'm not going to speak about a downside. I don't I don't think there is one. You're all very aware of our diversion program that we have going on at municipal court and the data that we've collected here to shows that we've saved a lot of of jail costs. Um, we could probably spend all evening um talking about the efforts to stand up core data and the data sharing that's going to be happening. Um I I view uh tier one and tier two um as as really earlier interventions. When you think about the sequential intercept modeling, it's it's how do we intervene with these folks that they're not getting arrest, that they're not spending nights in jail. So I I absolutely believe that um so Kelly and the PD and the health department start start their outreach um that that tier tier one that's going to be data collection that's going to be get a baseline make uh forge relationships with these folks that are that are unhoused or or in crisis that will set up the level two response that that Jim is talking about. Um and I'll really grease the skids for that and and the more that we can divert out of the ED out of the jail. It's it's going to have a ripple effect in terms of of cost savings for the city at firms and the PD, our court staff, my staff time, um jail costs. And I think that that we're working collaboratively to put together a data collection system, if you will, um where all of the stakeholders can can share that data and and it should be I don't want to say nothing's easy, but but it's doable to to come back and and report and say, "Yep, here's the impact we've had uh and then turn that into dollars saved." And so I always like to say a little bit of investment on the front end is going to save us money on the back end. And I I think we'll see that with this program. Oh,

I think I'm honestly satisfied. That was kind of the track I wanted to go down. I know Banner historically, I don't know what the past couple years numbers look like, but I know you guys have I mean the number I was familiar with was like 50 million in uncompensated. Um I'm hoping we can quantify these uh you know cost savings because be great if Banner could spend two to save five and we could you know we got a $2 million incarceration budget. if uh we're able to divert 25% of those people because public in talks is a huge component of that we're able to take those cost savings and uh you know direct some funding that way. So sounds like the data collection is a high priority and um I'll be looking forward to unit like a year's time to see what kind of impact.

Yeah, absolutely. So, as we talk about what are those uh expense savings opportunities as well is um in a lot of communities where you have title 25 patients in a hospital, the hospital would turn around and build a county for those patients. Part of our post-closing agreement with the hospital was that we would not charge the county for the first 10 years of ownership of the hospital. And so, we've been bearing that burden and we'll continue to be bear it for the first 10 years. At the end of that point though, we would build the county for title 25. Uh so that's not a city issue. That's kind of a county issue, but we're all residents of the city as well as the county and and should have an impact on that. Um but the better the work we can do on the front end here, the less than we would then be billing the county. Uh because, you know, we're taking care of these folks on on the front end and not when they hit a much more expensive uh site of care like like the hospital where we're not a behavioral hospital anyways. So my call and then I'll do you have a followup.

I was just gonna ask Lance if he knew when the end of that 10 years was because I wasn't aware of that being a component of the sales. Yeah. So uh we are in year six right now. Acquisition is in 2020. Just put a finer point on that. Um after the 10 years Banner pays the five-year rolling average prior to the closing of the transaction and anything above that gets build to the county. they can ask for uh a cost share from the trust and then it's modified every year by under the CPI index. So, I have read it a few times. [laughter] Just a little bit, right? I didn't want to bother everybody with that detail. I got I got [laughter] Michael and I'll give you Pat.

Uh for Jim and Jason on your uh MCR teams, have you yet or do you plan in the future to have volunteers sit right along with your mental health people so that you've got one mental health and one volunteer for for that? We have not we have not pursued that concept. Um we we certainly could do that as well as a student program that would you know student internships that be involved would be something that that we could enhance but we have we haven't got an active plan of that. I think that's an enhancement from peace in our cities your trip that is is a good thing to pursue to look at.

There's some there are more restrictions in the US around your um malpractice insurance than there is in Canada and you use volunteers. So we it it's not a one for one. I mean they have a very different um health care system across the board. And so there's some liability that um we would have to really investigate about before using volunteers to to go in. But certainly [snorts] someone can look. However, in level one it is appropriate.

Kelly, will you come up because we have a microphone? Thank you. So um in level one that is appropriate and actually encouraged because you have the more diversity you have in responses in level one um the more different areas you can cover and have [clears throat] better engagement and volunteers typically are more successful in outreach efforts at that level. So we would definitely kind of like the system um you have people in the food pantry network and others that do a lot of great work and actually relational work that let us know about bigger problems. Same concept.

Reason I asked the the unit that I rode with up there in Canada, uh one of the young ladies had been doing that for a while which encouraged her to go into EMT training. Yeah. And uh and the other gal was thinking about doing the same thing. And I talked to a couple of the others and they this this had kind of swayed them towards getting into mental health and and other careers. So it's how they train um prehealthare workers in Boston actually. Oh, cool. Um they have mobile units that go out and do medical and homeless outreach and that's how they train their um different levels of medical personnel. Nice. Thank you.

Yeah. So maybe he more so to Lance, but I was wondering I I was aware of the 10-year agreement. However, I didn't think uh about it and in general about Title 25 in particular. I thought it was the jail itself, but uh title 25 really opens a lot

and and title 25 is a larger population than what we see with prisoner care. So on on the payment portion, does the rural transformation any any of that 205 million this first year any of that laid out for I think rural hospitals, which I don't know if we're qualified as a rural hospital. Um, and does any of that lean into this this kind of program possibly?

So, that that's a question we'd all like answered. Uh, matter of fact, Wyoming Hospital Association has a meeting with Stephan Johansson here this week uh to kind of get more more information on what's going to be allowed, what the application process is going to look like. We do know that they want to focus on OB access, behavioral health, uh, EMS access and training, those kind of things, workforce developments, but there's very little yet on details about what kind of projects they'll accept and what that application's going to be like. Um, but I but certainly there's enough coalition of the willing to actually have a really good submission. We just don't know what we'll be able to apply for and what we can't. Uh, we're hoping to find that out very soon. Then um from the CARES Act, it seems to me that uh Banner had put in for uh title 25 and and basically several rooms to be converted. Did [clears throat] that ever happen?

Yes. Yes. Uh matter of fact, those rooms are under construction now. Again, as we talk about behavioral health patients without medical necessity in our hospital because they can't get out, we were waiting for beds at WBI. We're waiting for beds at the state. We have to have a safe place to hold those, initiate maybe some treatment. Uh and so we got a $3 million slip fund grant from the state. Those seven beds or observation beds um are going to be built by the end of the year. Uh that will give us some capacity uh hold patients in a more safe, secure location. But again, the best thing is to get them to services before they end up in the back of a squad car in the hospital in the ED. Okay.

And on a title 25 hold. Then lastly, it didn't make it into the bill uh unfortunately, but was bear uh which might have helped um with a with a crisis uh to be able to apply for um that that bear care essential. Bare essential the the in case of traumatic situation. Yeah. could have. Had you heard anything, different? I don't know if that's a possibility also. But

I don't know enough to know whether or not behavioral health was included in that bill or not. Have to I can reach out to my lobbyist to see if if it was or not, but like you said, I I it wasn't successful. So,

yeah. So, I know we only allotted a little over time and and I definitely think we could talk about this all night for sure, but um I think everybody hopefully got all their questions answered um as we go. Um thank you guys for presenting and giving us feedback and giving us the the numbers. Um this is as a mental health therapist, this is incredibly important aspect as we deal with this and try to navigate the definitely the issues. Um I'll just only highlight that in Rock Springs there was a young lady that just commit that came out um to committed suicide. Family is very open about that. She had just graduated from the high school up there. So we still continue to to have mental health crisis I believe not only in our young people but um in the adults in our communities. And so um this is something that I think we need to continue to all work on um just as basic human beings. So our continued partnership one more thing I'll regret if I get something.

You had mentioned some ideas on how to help our adolescent population especially um transitional aid youth or or teens violent that that have been violent. I think we're there's an opportunity here if we could realize to provide clinical services in the detention center that wouldn't be the first line of defense. It wouldn't be the first line of of intervention, but it would open up the world of opportunity for for those that were unsuccessful in the IOP program or at Mercer when they returned to incarceration or go in on a sanction. We could then provide clinical care while they're in custody and then transition out into a more community-based program after that. The big ticket item is that residential that adolescent residential treatment center, right? That's that's that's a big ticket. And we're already housing teens up at the detention center. or feeding them or clothing them, it makes sense to plug in some social services up there so they can get some help while they're in custody.

Thanks, J. Thanks. I was going to say I think the one that's that's even more ubiquitous though is the who are not in the system anywhere and then but that's that's like a that's a very of a crystal ball you know to but so I think that's some where some of that prevention work of the coalition is hopefully do well yeah thank you thanks thank you everyone appreciate your time thank you for coming here appreciate [clears throat]

Great discussion everyone. Thank you. Okay, moving right along in our agenda. All right. Um, let's go ahead and go to our grant coming up. I'm gonna hand that off to you, Mayor. I believe Director Lopez will talk you through or invite her staff to talk you through a couple of topics. uh the first of which is the uh partnership opportunity grant through lark environmental and then we'll step into urban forestry. So let's start with the um climate smart community first. Perfect. Good evening mayor counselors. Thanks for having me tonight. Uh fortunately for you it is me the rest of the evenings. We wouldn't want it any other way.

That's right. [laughter] Uh so we'll start out yes talking about the climate smart community initiative grant uh collaboration opportunity that we have with lark environmental. So Lark came to us um in fact they they have worked with community development Liz and Craig in particular um in the past and and reached out to them and said you know we have an opportunity that we would like to approach the city of Casper about and that is uh to apply for a climate smart communities initiative grant uh [clears throat] which offers funds to projects that advance community-based climate resilience. uh the folks from Lark are from Casper so they really wanted to work on a project in Casper um and decided uh to invite the city of Casper to partner with them on that project. So we a group of us from the city staff came together met with lark and talked through um several potential opportunities and projects that we could think about. There were some around storm water, there were some um around parks. You know, there were a lot of conversations uh about possibilities, but ultimately what we landed on as what we feel is uh the best and most appropriate and most compelling hopefully application uh for this program is a wildfire resilience and response readiness plan for city-owned property up on Casper Mountain, which of course includes uh Hogodon Basin and a lot of the surrounding property that's operated by the county at this time, but owned by the city of Casper. Uh to the best of my knowledge, unfortunately, we don't have a really robust or any at all uh wildfire mitigation strategy. We don't have a good forest management plan, at least not one that's updated, and we haven't done intentional work um to manage the forest up there to help mitigate wildfire. Um and so given the winter that we've had and the conditions that we're likely up against, um this has been top of mind for me. And so, um, in discussing it with this group, we all

agreed that, uh, this would be a really good time, maybe a little late actually, but a great time, but better now than never, um, to start working on a program like this. And so how the program works, Lark as uh the design team or the consultant would actually apply for the grant uh through the program. It requires the city of Casper to provide a letter of support that that we want to partner and and that will be a benefactor of the funding that if it is received. Um, it's also required that there is a community-based organization uh involved and that could be any non-governmental community serving organization that would have a vested interest in the project. Uh we reached out to a few and ultimately we believe that Central Wyoming Trails Alliance um which is [clears throat] an organized nonprofit here in the community because of their work in crossjurisdictional um uh projects would be a great um community-based organization to collaborate with us on this project and they have agreed to do so. Um and you might know that their executive director is actually um has experience in uh volunteer and career firefighting. So um his knowledge will be uh pretty important. So uh again would apply for the grant. If the grant was awarded uh they would be the recipients of the funds and they would use those funds to draft the plan for us at the completion of the plan. The city would own the plan and the intention. Um, and I I believe that the uh resilience plan narrative was uh included in your packet. And so, uh, you know, the the narrative that that we've already kind of drafted that lay out some of the key objectives. Um, I think summarizes it really well. Our expected outcomes would be a clear set of wildfire mitigation priorities for Casper Mountain. So what I said is I I really need something tangible that I can say we need to do this first and and then the work can commence, right? To to

start making an immediate impact. Um defined options for improving wildfire response water availability. So where is there water available on Casper Mountain for us to access for wild wildfire fighting? Um are the resources that are up there adequate right now? My guess is no. And so identifying other sources of potential water for firefighting um would be important. And then um coordinating a strategy. So the Toronto County um is currently advertising um to do some work in this space for countywide uh strategies. And so we certainly don't want to duplicate what they're doing, but we want to make sure that what we're doing complements what they're doing and really addresses the needs on city property where we would be the responsible um agency to execute. And then we want a realistic phased funding roadmap to support implementation. So as part of the deliverable, they will identify potential funding sources that we could then uh once we have our program in place um try to tap into in terms of funding to uh you know maybe uh dig more wells or create a pond or uh remove some trees and things like that. Um and then finally, you know, we really believe that this will improve our readiness to pursue future wildfire mitigation funding and capital investments and actually get um some important work going um to help us in fighting wildfire on the mountain in the future. So with that, I would stand for any questions that you might have. And ultimately what we're asking for is council support to let LARK apply for this grant um and give permission to either the mayor or the city manager to sign our letter of support that is required as part of their application.

Any questions about the application of the grant? Yeah. So um you mentioned the county. Um would we include them as part of this or just work in coordination.

Uh so, mayor, counselor, they are working on the Nona County Community Action Plan and again, I think their RFP is out right now. Um and so certainly, uh it is the intention that Lark would work closely with the county to make sure that what we're proposing align with what their vision is for their plan. Um and and likely they would be happening um simultaneously. So, it would be a great opportunity for us to collaborate Other questions? How does council feel about say something? Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

So, I'm fascinated with the water capabilities, you know, for firefighting in particular up there. I I don't think there is any but or much but um because I think think they've got to fly out uh to find a bigger body. Uh but uh so I think that that would really [snorts] be terrific in to [clears throat] that end you mentioned Algan Basin. Do we um have a decent supply of water just for the building itself? Um and I don't know if there's fire suppression in that building.

Uh mayor, counselor, we do there is a water system that we utilize for snow snow making and we do have a water storage pond that can double as firefighting. Okay. Uh water in the summertime for sure. And so, uh, you know, I I feel like is it adequate? Probably not. Maybe to protect Hobon proper property to some degree. Um, but certainly not our neighbors. So, exploring additional sources of water I think are going to be really important. Jenna,

so I'm wondering if um where the seat base at the airport comes into play with any of this when during the research that you're doing. Having that right here is a big mayor counselor. That's an excellent point and I am sure that lark will collaborate with at the airport as they're working on their plan. [snorts] And I think we have the benefit that that they're local and so they're familiar with what we have going on in our community and they have contacts in the community already. So I think they're going to be a little better equipped than maybe a consultant from out of town to to help us navigate this.

So is council good with staff moving forward with this? Who's next? May I just stay? Good evening. Absolutely.

The next item that I wanted to visit with [clears throat] you all about uh is permission to uh submit yet another grant opportunity uh for the city of Casper. This one related to our urban forestry program. So, of course, you know, uh that in April of 2024, we were approved um wi with a $699,900, just shy of $700,000 uh grant. It was a pass through grant from the National Park Service through the Arbor Day Foundation uh for our branch cross Casper program. That's what we called it. Um and we were very very excited and less than a year into some of our implementation efforts unfortunately in February of last year uh we were notified by the Arbor Day Foundation that the United States Department of Agriculture Forest Service had issued a termination notice for that grant. So essentially we lost the funding through the administration's doge efforts. Um and so since that time we have been looking for alternatives to help us. We know that um you know through a couple of recent catastrophic storms um and weather events in the community, we've lost a number of our trees um and and our urban forest is unfortunately reducing instead of increasing. And we also know that through uh a comprehensive uh condition assessment that we had of our urban forest last year, we have a number of trees in the community that are considered high risk or dangerous. And so we know that there's significant need and we need to start addressing these things as as quickly and as efficiently as possible. And so we're really excited uh when the Wyoming State Forestry Service uh urban and community forestry program came to us and said, you know, we we would like to um have the city apply for a grant opportunity uh a little bit bigger grant than most of their other programs allow for. Um, but I I believe the intent was to target some of the Wyoming communities that

lost funding that they would have otherwise had um through the Arbor Day Foundation or the National Park Service. Um, and so we have the opportunity to apply for $100,000 with the emphasis of removing high-risisk trees to protect public safety and property and then plant um and maintain the new trees that are planted in their place to enhance our canopy coverage uh increase our species diversity and improve the overall health of our urban forest. Um, you know, as you all know, CARK resources have, um, dwindled a little bit over the last couple of years. And so, as such, uh, we do anticipate that we will outsource, uh, all of the work associated with, uh, this grant. And so, uh, we estimate that $100,000 will, uh, pay for approximately 25 to 40 removals of high-risisk trees, um, in our, uh, in our Boulevard tree areas and then, uh, replace those trees with the Atlantics. So, that is our request.

Questions about the grant? Is council okay with staff moving forward with this? Bigger. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Seven times bigger. You bet.

So, last [clears throat] night uh during the Amber and Kyle show, [laughter] um I mentioned about the Arbor Day and we're talking about grant funding and I didn't see you in the back row until after, but I apologize for not recognizing all of all of the hard work that your crew has put into all of this plus all the grants that your crew is able to so you did shout out to Jolene Jolene about the river restoration

deservingly so so there's other opportunities good thing our social media p that's [laughter] right what social set you up a Facebook page I would Tik Tok is in the room so you could easily [laughter] she has worked very hard. The branch cross Casper program is spectacular and we have plan to implement it. It'll just be a little slower than appreciate it. Think we got one more item from you. Right.

Oil city. Last but not least, [clears throat] uh, may our counselors, it is, uh, probably my least favorite time when I come to council and talk about rate increases at some of our rec enterprises. And, uh, tonight the opportunity is to talk about golf. Uh, and so we are requesting council support on, uh, increasing our rates at golf um, and consideration of the implement implementation, excuse me, of a new facility fee. uh at the municipal golf course um effective immediately uh so that it can impact our 2026 season uh which given the weather may actually start a little sooner then. So of course you know about the golf enterprise fund uh we are proud to say that it is the only enterprise the rec recreation enterprise um that is able to sustain its own operating um expenses uh year-over-year for uh quite a long time now. So, our cost recovery goal is set at 110%. uh we frequently meet or exceed that cost recovery goal with a primary objective over the last couple of years of getting to the point where the fund, the golf course fund, um can not only sustain its operating expenses, but also take care of majority of its smaller capital needs in terms of mowing equipment, other bunker materials, you know, the things that we need cart path improvements um sort of yearover-year in capital um to just improve the course or enhance the user experience at the golf course. And so we've really worked hard um to build up the fund in a way that we don't have to rely on other city funds um for much other than you know really large capital expenditures i.e. clubhouse which I will talk about a little bit later. Um, but we are proud that over the last couple of years, uh, again, we have been able to

cover our operating costs, retain $290,000 in operating reserves, which is a a policy requirement for us uh to maintain its three months worth of operating exp. Um, in addition to that, the fund has paid uh over 400,000 in capital equipment or course improvements over that time. um and anticipate an $188,000 investment in the upcoming fiscal year. Um moreover, we're putting about $50,000 a year um aside specifically for the replacement of our car fleet. Uh so you may recall several years ago um council graciously granted us I think $400,000 in opportunity funds uh to buy a new fleet of golf carts. Uh, and at that time we decided that we would start putting money away each year so that when we needed to replace that fleet, we would be able to cover that expense on our own. Trade-in value plus cash equals a brand new fleet of 70 carts. And we are well on our way uh to achieving that goal with the funds that have been called out to date. Um, so uh so while uh rate increases are never fun, uh they are necessary for us to continue operating. And of course, as always, we've gone through a fairly exhaustive exercise of u checking comparable uh local and regional courses uh to make sure that our rates remain at or below um competition in the in the area so that our users uh both um residents of the community that that frequent the golf course and people who may be just passing through are seeing value when they come to the course uh to play. So, one thing and I do apologize this was an oversight in the memo that we are introducing this year is dynamic pricing uh which means we are proposing higher rates on the weekends than we do during the weekdays and of course that's to bolster rounds during our slower weekdays. Um but maybe more importantly it's to try to control uh the number of

rounds that are played on the weekends because capacity is getting pretty challenging uh with over 350 rounds in in a weekend day. Um that's busy. We are very very busy. Glad to be but um but we do need to implement some strategies I think to to sort of um try to level out those weekend peaks a little bit. Uh so again uh we've gone through the exercise trying to make sure that our our rates are appropriate and there are a few other enhancements um or uh value ads that I want to just point out. Uh so [clears throat] this year we are proposing a new senior pass for passholders that are 70 and older at a $50 off uh rate. I can say there's only one other course in Wyoming uh that even offers a senior pass and that's in Cheyenne. Uh but we have gotten feedback from some of our users that they would like to see that and so uh we have proposed to that this year uh which is an 8% discount at $50 off their pass. Uh continued affordability for young players. Obviously young players are the future of the sustainability of our golf course and so we want to make sure that youth have the opportunity to come learn and develop a passion for the sport. And so, uh, we have not actually increased our youth and child season pass rates since at least 2016. Um, and we'll continue to keep them affordable [clears throat] to keep [cough] hopefully building that future client base. Um, similarly, passholders may bring one child 12 and under with them after 3 p.m. uh to the golf course and pay no green fee for that child. So, uh, allowing families to recreate together while also, um, hopefully inspiring some passion for golf in youth, um, is accomplished through that. Uh, we do have discounted walking or what we call twilight rounds where people can come later into the evening, not guaranteed

necessarily to be able to play a full nine or an 18. No cart, they're walking, um, but they get a discounted rate to play. I actually play a lot that way. Um we do have on our um existing uh fleet of carts GPS and pin detection distance technology devices. Uh so that is an enhancement over the last couple years that our players have seemed to really enjoy. Uh we do also have a self-service range ball dispenser on the driving range. So people can go right up to the driving range um pay by card and get the balls that they want to play or practice on the driving range. and that expands the availability of the driving range during our early morning and evening hours. It is our intention to have the maintenance staff open uh the the ball dispenser pretty much as soon as they get on site in the morning. Um and then it'll be the last thing that'll close in the evening. Um so historically people have had to wait until the pro shop is open and then not have access after the pro shop is closed either. And so that is a nice expansion of availability. And then finally, our season pass holders do enjoy an endofthe-ear appreciation tournament with free entry, free cart, and prizes. And that's been really well attended over the last several years. So, I'm going to stop there uh and see if you have any questions related to just our fees um before I dive into the facility fee discussion.

Any questions about the recommended rate increases. Yeah, Brandy actually have a question. I [clears throat] have zero knowledge. Spoiler alert, it's not good. So, I don't do it. I just looked at the numbers to make comparison. The only thing I saw that didn't look super cheap compared to everything else and ours are way understanding, right? Uh, mayor. [laughter] I mean to be fair it it is fairly industry standard anymore to have GPS capability on your golf course. But they're good. They are good. So it's way cheaper. Like I don't I don't golf. I just looked at the numbers and it's way cheaper.

So good job. Amber

um like to um let council know as well that uh that Zel took this to the parks advisory um board and as another way for that board to engage and help guide um the decision- making around this and I thought that was great additional information um they they did uh support it and provided some additional feedback on it and so there's just a a second level of vetting um [clears throat] that will be coming our way um from from that group. And so I appreciated their input and it did seem like many of them either were users themselves or have networks of folks who are users and they did make use of those folks asking them what they felt about this. Um so wanted to let you all know that. I certainly appreciated the input from from folks who are are using that um facility. And then wanted to also note that um we did hear from golf on our uh October parks and wreck meeting and um just to to give a little bit more detail. The vending machine that was installed, they they indicated that that increased um driving rate sales by 55%. Um season pass sales were up 20 21%. Um and I asked why. Um the the folks there said they felt like the value proposition has just driven that increase and people are really enjoying the improvements that were made to the course and and I heard from every group that they wanted to see that investment continue and so I think you know for those reasons the folks who are using it really think it's a great course and want to see us continue to invest in it. So I think that for the most part people indicated that they were they would be happy to um support that through their fees. So,

thank you.

So, um I know we haven't it but I mean people are about season pass and not really a lot of value and they understand there's no snow and all of that. And I I did wonder if the same thing I mean, are we going to have water enough this summer? I'm hopeful we will have a wet spring. Um but uh um but I'm I'm wondering about that. I also kind of wondered if anybody saw this uh letter to in

Royal City on ideas of reciprocal wild pass Indie Pass on the on ski slope. Um if there's anything sim similar I don't know what I'm talking about on that stuff. Um [clears throat] but uh um is there any reciprocal agreements [clears throat] uh with our um it used to be with with a season pass at Hogodon. You could get a discount at Snow King but not out at

Toner. You have several partnerships. Excuse me. Uh we do have several partners still um for discounted um days, passes. I mean it's it varies depending on the resort that we're partnering with. Um but we do still offer I think it's at least five. There may even be more than that. Um I can't speak to Snow King specifically. I don't think so anymore. But um our pass at Hogadon through that does offer great value because of the discounts that you can get at other ski areas.

Uh I'm going to have to phone a friend and ask our resident golf expert Randy Norbell to come up and speak to whether or not there is a a similar program in golf. Not to the best of my knowledge is there any kind of reciprocal agreement with other courses. Um however I can say that I have um encouraged our pro to at least have conversations with three crowns and see if there's opportunity there is the two public courses in town uh to partner on opportunities. Um I I don't know that those conversations have uh gained much traction given the change in leadership at three crowns but um

hey Randy good evening council generally there are no reciprocal um with other courses on that sometime in the private industry they do do reciprocating events with other courses but for municipalities I've never heard of anything like Not saying it's not possible in the future that we could strike deals with other courses. I'm I'm guessing like three crowns in the country club. Maybe Paradise Valley have agreements with maybe other like Casper Country Club might have other private clubs. And

there has been stuff there in the past at the country club but there is nothing going on right currently. And generally both the private clubs in town will work with each other to during tournament events to sit there and help their memberships. [clears throat] But um other than that there I I didn't know if there was a a potential for the municipal golf course if a val value added um type type thing. that I I am reluctant. I don't disagree with the facility fee, but you know um but I I'm I'm a little worried of pushing rates um too much. Some of these are not very much, but um I'm concerned about that. Then the last one on So like you're senior uh season pass. Is that any day of the week or are there some restrictions? Because I think there's um one pass that they sell over at three crowns.

Is it Monday? AR counselor. So there wouldn't it be no restrictions? We had this conversation. You don't want the front desk attendants to have to ask people for their IDs when we're busy, right? So, if you have a senior pass, you can come any day and and golf. Um, Three Crowns, as I understand from Randy, does have a Monday senior rate. Um, but we felt like it would be better value just discount a pass and they could come any day.

Most of the seniors won't golf on the weekend. They don't like all the crowds. So, Okay, on to the facility.

So, thank you uh councelor for segueing a little bit into the facility fee. Uh, and I appreciate councelor Pollock mentioning the parks and recck advisory board because when we proposed this to the board, one of the comments that we got back is that it felt like um having the rate increase on top of a 10% facility fee, which is initially what we proposed felt like a little bit too much. And so um after numerous conversations, we decided to scale that back. So the proposal right now is that we would um implement a 5% facility fee this year uh in conjunction with our rate increase and then next year uh also implement another additional 5% that again would be just the facility fee. Uh so all the pass um and and ticket or day pass and cart rental fees and all of that um go to our operating expenses, right? the facility fee would be called off uh specifically uh for a clubhouse fund. That is our proposal uh to this body. And so uh after the two years, it would be a 10% fee and then would stay at 10% arguably until we raise an adequate amount of money to be able to contribute to the construction of a new clubhouse. Um which we're estimating is $77,000 this year at 5% essentially double of that next year. And over time, as inflation and and costs go up, uh we hope that that facility fee could earn in excess of $2 million in about a 10-year period, again, that that could be contributed to the construction of a new clubhouse. Certainly, that would not pay for all of a new clubhouse, but um would would be a start uh in the users really helping to make that investment uh in the facility. And so, uh 5% this year, 5% next year. uh again uh vetted through the parks and recck advisory board and and they felt

like 10% upfront was maybe a little too much but supported the fee uh overall uh for yet another building that was constructed in 1980 and and is looking to need some replacement improvements for sure which we've continued to [clears throat] do but eventual replacement given uh a structural analysis that was done by uh Bob Lower here in town where he said uh really given the condition and some of the things that are happening to the structure. Uh it would be comparable price to just question about the facility fee. Yeah, Michael.

Um [snorts] this it's kind of both facility fee and and I guess questions as much as comment, but um so I'm I'm not a golfer myself. I'm not not average. I mean might do one game a year if I have a card. But anyway, um I did I have had several buddies who friends who golf that have reached out to me over several months. But um anyway, their their feedback about about it uh and about the I mean they're very complimentary about about Jason and Ben say do a great job and the the grounds and the the courses you know are kept very nicely um you know kept kept in shape. Um they with the fees I think the both the increase and the and the facility fee I think what they were kind of encouraging was to when so for example if there is some you know you know renovation or you know improvement done to the clubhouse using those fees that that be kind of communicated with some signage or something just to kind of say here's where your money's going you know that that fee that was just a suggestion there. Um, but I think that they they had some other there were some other uh, you know, concerns that they had. I mean, they like I said, the the grounds and the the landscaping are looking good. Um, but um, I think just just I think they like to see the generally I would say it was like in the in the realm of like customer service type things. sometimes, you know, feel like the management is good, but that sometimes the felt like the customer service could be better. And I'll and I'll write these up and send those send those on so you you can you can consider those. But anyway, that was their feedback.

Counselor, thank you for that feedback. We appreciate getting that and and um certainly we hear some of those comments as well and are are working with staff on some solutions to help improve customer service. Like most of our seasonal operations, we hire employees just for the season and sometimes um it's hard to get a a stellar crop of all wonderful seasonal employees, although we strive for that. Um and golf is quite popular, so they generally do better than than some of their other um operations. But, uh, you know, we we are looking at strategically placing, um, some adults or more tenured, uh, golf course seasonal staff that have returned year after year, um, in roles where they're acting as leaders, uh, for other newer employees and can provide some extra guidance when the pro or assistant pro aren't there or or readily available. And so, we're looking at ways to improve leadership so that we can really focus on customer service. Um, so yes, please give me your feedback and we'll continue to work on that.

Thank you.

Um, just a general comment. [clears throat] I think that the facility fee model to me feels like the most viable path to create some amount of sustainability in these buildings when we're looking at so many of our facilities needing to be replaced sort of all at once. And likely 50 years from now, they'll have that same problem because we built a lot at one time and we're renovating a lot at one time because they're needing it at a similar time. And I I just think that um you know, unlikely that that will cover the entire cost of a of a new capital build, but certainly having a designated funding source for some of those things feels like we're being better stewards of those facilities personally. So I support that direction. I do feel a little more comfortable with the phased approach just for the sheer like one-year sticker shock um that that was sort of there. And so I I think there's some wisdom in that and but I overall I I think that the the direction is good um for thinking about facilities where we can um for for stewardship.

Yeah, Amber, you took the words right out of my mouth. I think it's plan was it? Yeah, that was my intention. [laughter] So you wouldn't talk. Yeah. trying to go. But but yeah, I mean I I absolutely agree. I'm comfortable number one because it was vetted by the um rec board um rec committee and and so that that is good. Um I think it is being mindful and being conscious of the fact, you know, how do we continue to raise rates are inevitable, but how do we do that pragmatically um without doing it in five years and being like, oh my gosh, we have to raise it by 30% or something. And I think that that's smart and um and doable. I'm 100% behind all of them. Kyle,

thanks, Randy, for all the information. I'm stoked to hear we're already socking away money for fleet replacement. Um, so very glad to hear that. We haven't talked about dredging the pond yet, and I know that was an [snorts] expensive one, so I imagine that'll be a future uh talk item. Um, I was curious this year, um, because we had a super warm winter, did we extend the season at the golf course? What ability do we have to be flexible over the winter when we have a really terrible winter? Uh at least from a Kogon and weather perspective. Did we give people the ability to use the course or you know?

So we use we put out temporary I'm sorry mayor council. Um we do put out just a temporary green where they can go out year round. We don't charge this. It's just all free just people out exercising. It's hard to get your swing in shape when you're wearing car hearts and gum boots or something like that to go out there. So, um, as long as they stay off the TE's and, uh, we keep them off the greens because we do tarp those greens for the winter. Um, generally November 1st through April 1st. So, you can go out there now. You can go out anytime you want. We've been really busy. Oh, geez. [clears throat] In the in the afternoons, they just go up, park, and then head out and go walking.

I'm late to the party on that. We don't charge. We don't charge this time of year, especially with the grass so dry right now. I don't want to see car traffic out on it. Okay. Awesome.

That's any any year. That's what we do. Um, does so when we think about our cost recovery goal, does this new model change that as all at all or does it sort of just live in its own separate thing that that's imagined to be unrelated to operations? And if so, how do we think of that 10% over and above operations? and and how how more how do we conceptualize it that and and think of it when we see our chart mayor counselor good question and the honest answer is I haven't quite [laughter] great so I'll give you time but I just was like

representative council we we are starting to work on all of our business plans for all the wreck enterprises and we'll be um vetting those business plans through the park and wreck advisory board and then bringing those business plans to count and part of that discussion will be evaluating valuation and uh maybe adjustment if it's appropriate of our cost recovery goals in each of the enterprises and and so your question is is important and relevant. We'll be evaluating because if we're going to uh direct certain amount of those operational dollars to capital i.e. carts and now this facility fee we want to probably keep that separate from the cost recovery goal that is generally really focused on an operating subsidy um or recovery. And so I I think we will have to figure out a way um to mathematically calculate that out and then establish or retain a goal from an operation standpoint. That makes sense.

Thanks. Questions? So council supportive of the facility fee and then the rate the hike rates the rate. Okay. Whatever it is, maybe don't use that one. The rate increases. Appropriate Oh, appropriate adjustments.

All righty. Let's go ahead and go over agenda review. I know we did a little bit. Janine kind of hit some points earlier um in the meeting, but does anybody have any conversation around upcoming meetings, anything like that? Okay, let's go ahead and do council around the table. I'll start with you, Michael. Sorry. Me, Michael Macintosh. Sorry. All right. Uh, we had no meeting this past week. They forgot to advertise. We're going to elect new chair and vice chair that we don't have now because they both went away. [laughter] Both of us. Huh.

So, we're going to be doing that next meeting. Yeah. both of you just kind of uh they are we're excited to get the uh walking counters that we approved last week so that we can uh save a lot of money on those different grants that require us to do some counting. And uh yeah, that's about it. That's the only excitement I had last week. Awesome. In the realm of the city. Thank you, Brandy. Hi. hijacked. [laughter] Yes, you did. I know, right? Almost as bad as Pat returning it now.

Just took it early. I like I like that. Matt, do you have anything? [clears throat] I have anything rather I went to the I attended the lyric invitational thing just to get their update and enjoyed that very much and hearing more about that. I missed it when it's your turn. I don't know what we're talking about but [laughter] I'll just shake my head. Yes, I'll get We lost the sound at the last work session. So, I need you to replplug the lyrics. Oh, gotcha. Okay, Mr. Sweeney.

Wow, she did mention that to me last week. I am trying to not talk. So, thank you, Mayor. Can I say Can I say one?

I did mean to say this, too. I um I just wanted to uh take a minute I uh to honor an Anne Toliffson who was an educator here in Casper for many years and just was a remarkable teacher and leader and incredible person. So just if you knew an you know what I'm talking about. So, um, we appreciate her her, uh, time on this earth and and just want to reach out and, uh, tell her let her family know we're we're with them and thinking about them. Um I think it was last Wednesday night um uh Plat River Trails had kind of a I don't know was it an open house. Um and Selma and I have seen a lot of each other this [laughter] um

we're sorry.

Yeah, she is too. [laughter] But uh um a lot of information and uh I thought it was uh really uh pretty very good and um I did I did and and one I think it would be helpful if they um are more involved with uh three crowns and AMO reuse I [snorts] think in trying to figure out some of the some of the planning over there. They they have had a meeting I guess uh with Rob and Jim but appreciated that. Then uh Thursday I attended my first MO meeting um uh just trying to figure that all out. So um and then later that that afternoon went to the Chamber of Commerce business after hours [snorts] um over at the Best Western. Um um and then Friday was the LGBTQ um I'm I'm the alternate

caveat that doesn't I sat outside. There's some sort of hierarchy. Yeah, we didn't let him in. That's [laughter] went to the restroom or something scratching at the door. Yeah.

And [laughter] then Monday I went to uh the Casper City Council of People with Disabilities. Um again, thanks to Zelma for keeping my temper in check. Um but uh um it was a very interesting meeting. So um and uh uh some different different thought processes that I'm not quite used to. So, um, and then last night I got there late, but excellent presentation um, uh, by Amber and Kyle and, um, hopefully my interruptions aren't uh, too overboard, but um, [clears throat] but it was a real friendly crowd that I don't think people really were there. I appreciate it. Uh staff um amount of staff that that came out to be supportive and answer any Jill Jill was there, Janine was there, Selma, Jolene, I don't know who else was.

So, um it was good to have some of those folks there in case somebody like me had some stupid question. So, but um I I thought it was really good and I thought the turnout was was pretty good. So, um and u um and I think anything this morning except problem. So, um appreciate those that uh reached out on the storm water uh more to come and um some point we will probably need to talk about strategy for the future. So

uh I can provide an update on the LGBTQ advisory uh meeting though you did just hear from that group very recently. Um we did recap that presentation for members of the committee that were not in attendance. Um contemplated to some extent how that committee might want to participate in Casper Pride this year. They've done a data collection booth at some prides and and uh recently have pivoted to um supporting the Sunday which is where the march happens and that sort of thing. So it's up in the air but just kind of started those preliminary discussions. Um we discussed uh the Casper Cares initiative with which um you saw an example of uh on the board when they came. This next topic um will be uh the MEI and what is it? um we had some comment section dialogue about well you know I I don't buy it you know a 92 I don't buy it because you know x y or z happens to me out in the community and so I think giving some context for this is not a measure of the the friendliness of the random folks strolling the street um in Casper this is a measure of um our policy and so just trying to provide some information to the community about what this score does capture and does not capture. Um, and you know, to the point of the people in the in the comments, it it it's limited in its in its ability to assess the overall um LGBTQ friendliness of the community, but it does assess our our policy. And so, um, providing some information about how that score is captured and gathered and the [clears throat] organization that does it and that sort of thing will be the next topic. So that will go out um both on the website and um the cast for pride newsletter. And then um yeah, the only other Oh, I spent the

first part of this week in Cheyenne at the governor's conference for tourism and hospitality. Um so industry folks from all around the um state were there and it's an annual conference that I attend. So we got to advocate on behalf of that Wyoming's second largest industry. So we um had a productive uh visit to Cheyenne around that particular um industry and then uh pretty much covered the the presentation last night, but um really enthusiastic about the Casper Colleg's initiative around this community learning series. I think it's great. Um I think it it provides a lot of opportunity. So far there's there's already been a relatively diverse set of topics and they're sort of just getting started. So I think we can expect you know more more um community learning there that that I think is really beneficial to to us. Um so looking forward to continuing to participate with them. So thanks for the invite for that and um staff has been mentioned uh not only did they attend but also helped us prepare that presentation um pretty [clears throat] significantly. And so thanks for everybody I think everybody except for maybe Christa who ended up getting looped in on the uh running thread. we kind of reached into many many departments over the course of preparing that um that presentation. So uh so thanks to everybody who hopped in and helped us um fill in the gaps so that we were delivering all information to the folks there. Um and to the other counselors for for joining us and that's all I have.

Thank you mayor. Uh there was a metro sit report last week. I'm glad to see those are actually in our information packets. Most of y'all already saw this, but in the case you didn't, and just for the public's awareness, um, recently had a Parvo outbreak out there and, uh, really tough on the staff. They've also recently received some cats and dogs that were severely ma malnourished, in bad shape, enough so that some of them needed euthanized. And so, it was just a um, helpful but stark reminder that these people, who I imagine all love animals, do have to handle some really tough cases, make some really hard decisions on a daily basis. So, uh, thinking of those guys up there, thankful for them and the work they do, as well as the support, collaboration of all of our partners and volunteers that assist that team. Uh, appreciative of all y'all's work. Went to the Yellowstone apartment ribbon cutting last Friday. Was a nice reception. Got a great tour of the building. Um, yeah, really, um, really good turnout and, uh, it was great to be able to walk through the space. Had a old Yellowstone district committee meeting yesterday. Our March 17th meeting of council will see applications for renewals of two member terms and acceptance of two new applications. The existing that are looking for renewal are Kelly Ivangh at Leming Plant Company and Philip Brail with State Farm Insurance. And then the two new applications are for Lindsey Grant at the Lyric and Marty Axon with Brickon. Uh I want to thank Jamie at Nolan Feed and Pete Maxwell with Gast Lake Social and Rialto for their service on the board. Uh they've just got a lot going on and so that's why they chose not to renew. But, uh, looking forward to welcoming Lindsay and Marty. Uh, and again, you'll see those applications all on the 17th. We did reelect leadership for that group. Uh, myself as the chair and Laura Hunter from my 321 as the vice chair. So, uh, we'll serve in those roles for the upcoming year. And then, yeah, people already mentioned it. I was thankful for the Casper Colleg's invite to do the learning series last night. Was happy with the turnout. Always wanting, you know, I always want a full

room, but I think we probably had 40 people show up. And so, uh, it was nice. Good questions, good engagement. Uh, their next one, I don't think they've announced the date or time yet, but, uh, they said it was going to be Tammy Salisbury, county assessor. She's going to be talking property tax. So, again, just thankful for them putting on this earning series. I think they've been coming up with some really interesting programs and would encourage folks to check those future ones out. If you missed this one, I I know they've posted videos and I saw a video crew there last night. So, I imagine uh they got a Casper College Learning Series web page that um I haven't seen the past couple videos on there, but I imagine at some point they'll post that video, but if you were interested in the presentation materials or anything that we covered, I've already sent that out to one or two people that were unable to make it. So, hit me up. That's all I got. Thank you, Mayor.

As Brandy had mentioned, [clears throat] I guess the we've been meeting with the Lyric. um a lot of us have and and so they are um actively starting to work towards um moving um in the direction of um building a actual performing arts center. Um so we've listened to that and so just wanted to put that out there that that's kind of coming down the road and I think we've all listened to that. It's very exciting what that's going to be, what it could be um some of the revisions. So we're looking forward to that. So, um, others, um, I had a great opportunity today to meet with the fourth graders at Lincoln. Had a great conversation with them. They challenged me quite a bit, asked me some very hard questions. [laughter] And, you know, you generally get, what's your favorite color? And, you know, what do you do? But, um, these young people asked me, um, very hard questions around education. um the city in regards to immigration. They even asked me um in regards to that um equity um understanding how people are treated in the community and so I was very impressed. They asked me some very hard questions and so I was very grateful to to have that conversation with them. Very meaningful to be quite honest with you. Um so anyway, very much loved it. My wife works there. She's in teaches in the preschool and so she gets firsthand account of of that school and it is just wonderful young people

Lincoln Elementary. Yeah, just very very good. Um let's see. I'll be speaking on Association of Wyoming on Thursday morning. So I will be doing that. Um looking forward to doing that and then think but I think that's about it. So that's all I got. Can I

Absolutely. P. So, I just wanted um the surface water drainage utility was Senate File 116 and uh I really appreciated the act the active participation that Wham put forward um and really working on a lot of key issues, but this one they really had to work very hard at and that voted basically against us. Um were uh the Senator Boner um who's got Evansville as part of his district. Uh Kale Casease uh was [clears throat] Gary Crumb's bill, Senator Crumbs bill, who I like a lot. Um but Hicks Hutchings um Senator ID from here, Cole from Rock Springs, Larson from the Powell area, um Love Pearson, Charlie Scott and Steinm. But uh the rest of our senators uh voted voted with us. So, appreciate Senator Barlo's help um and uh and others help at some point, but that's we at work.

Uh it's invaluable to our legislators whether they realize it or not. Turn on investment is very good. Yes. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you everybody. Appreciate it. Have a great rest of your week. No executive session or You're off the hook. You're off the hook. What are we going to do with our early evening?