Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Go ahead and call this meeting to order. There we go. Can uh I get a motion to approve the agenda. Motion to approve. Second. Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor? I. Those opposed? Motion carries. Can I get a motion to approve the August 21st, 2025 planning commission minutes, please? So moved. Second. Second. Thank you. Further discussion. All those in favor? I I.

Those opposed? Motion carries. All right. We're going to turn it over to Aaron who's gonna present the variance request.

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the commission. I am coming back off an illness, so I apologize if my voice gets a little goofy. We're going to power through. So, tonight we have three requests before the planning commission. First, like the chair mentioned, is a variance request, which will require a public hearing. Second is the Taco Bell concept plan, and third is the public services facility. And we're doing a check-in with our comp plan. So the first uh item on our agenda is a variance request. The request is a variance from the city's adopted bluff ordinance. So it's a variance from the toe or the bottom of the bluff which is present on the property. The request is to construct a duplex within the required tier one setback along the toe of the bluff. So the meeting process what we'll do tonight I'll give a presentation. We'll open up the public hearing. The planning commission will discuss. The applicant is here with us too. So, if you'd like to ask questions to Zamira, she's available and then the planning commission will make a recommendation to the city council. Regardless of the recommendation, the planning commission chooses to forward onto the city council. The city council will also review. You are giving the recommendation. The city council makes the decision. So, similar to how we do all other applications, you're giving just a recommendation. City council will do the final review. So, the property is on Sixth Street. Uh, historically was owned by a gentleman named Rocky. So we've called it Rocky's house at city hall for a while. You can see on the top picture, you can see the bluff how it comes down directly behind the house and the shed. So if you start thinking about that as the general toe of the bluff, the required 25 ft essentially starts at the back corner of that shed moving towards Sixth Street. So you can see right now in its current condition, it's a single family home with an accessory structure. So in projects that are the project that's part of the application is a duplex and a duplex is permitted in the R2 zoning district. So that's not part of our discussion tonight since it is a permitted use in the R2 district. If this variance is approved, there are

a few more steps that will need to happen before it can move forward. So the lot will need to be combined from three to one. So I think that this is a remnant piece of when Carver was platted in the late 1800s. It was platted as three lots for some reason. We don't know what it is. It happens a lot downtown that we need to do some lot cleanup. So, should this project move forward, we'll ask that the three lots be combined into one to make it a buildable piece. Right now, you wouldn't be able to build anything because the setbacks would be bouncing off the three different properties. So, that would be the next application would be a lot combination. We also would require a full engineered plan showing utility connections. Utilities in Sixth Street are pretty deep, so it likely would be a pretty extensive project to get into Sixth Street to bring utilities for to an additional use for that duplex. And then we also would require additional review of parking. You can't park on Six. So having a duplex here would require a minimum of four spaces on the property. So getting cars off six onto the property directly. So you might be asking, how is this house here now on this weird three parcel, one parcel piece? It likely is a legal non-conforming. So, it existed prior to the bluff ordinance. So, the house and shed were built. The bluff ordinance happened after that. So, the bluff ordinance wasn't reviewed at the time that the house and the shed were built. So, that's why they were located where they are right now. So, they would not be permitted to be constructed today unless they also came in for a variance. So, that location does not work, but it's it's existing now. So the survey that's part of the application is on the screen now. So you can see it's a duplex running generally on an east west. You can see I'm going to pull this one up. The yellow line is the toe of the bluff. So you can see that it dances a little bit behind the house. Since it's based on topography, it changes. It jogs a little bit. And then the tier one setback required from that toe of bluff is the red line. So without uh approval of a variance,

nothing would be able to be built behind the red. So thinking about that where the toe of the bluff is with the red line as a 25 foot tier one setback requirement. So our bluff ordinances uh something to read if you cannot sleep in the middle of the night but in general it states that development excavation clear cutting and other activities are not permitted within the toe of bluff or in that tier one setback. So it's to preserve the character of the bluff and bluff setback within the city and it really limits what can be done in those two areas. Hence why the applicant is seeking a variance to be able to construct a home within that tier one setback. The requirements for granting a variance are pretty specific. So this is straight from the city code. The planning commission would need to find all of these to be affirmative. So you would need to be able to say yes to all of these for the variance to be approved. So the proposed variance is in harmony with the general purpose and intent of the ordinance. The proposed variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan as amended from time to time and the applicant or owner establishes that there are practical difficulties in complying with this ordinance. So you'd have to say yes to all of these to move forward with a variance application. A variance does require a public hearing. Notice was run in the Wakonia Patriot and posted at city hall. It was also sent to residents within 350 ft of the property. So that's every property edge. We don't go from the center. It's every property that's within that boundary. There was a conversation referenced in the staff report and it's the same property owner that provided written comment that's included in the packet. So the conversation that was referenced, I asked the property owner to provide it in writing so we could review it and has a have it as a formal part of the packet. So know that those two were the same person. So we received uh that feedback from one property owner in the general area of the project. So at this point I will pull up the survey ask that you open the public hearing and start discussion.

We should open the public hearing right? You can. Yes. Okay. Can I please get a motion to open the public hearing? Motion. Thank you. At this time we'll take comments from the public. When you come forward if you could please begin by sharing your name and address for the record. And after all comments have been received, the public hearing will be closed and no further comments on this item will be taken at this meeting. Is there any public comments? Then you're also welcome to leave it open as you discuss.

All right. Well, let's leave it open and uh we'll start the mission discussion. Let me ask a question. Who here has lived in cars since 1999? I'm probably the only one. In 1999, just before July 4th weekend, there was a 7 in rainfall in Carver. on the north side of 40. Water ran down the slope, cut a se 20 foot gouge in the earth, and tore a 10-in water line, which then a leak in the water line drained our water tower. And I came back on Saturday morning. That was on a Friday. Saturday morning to my house and I heard this noise downstairs. And it was my water meter going backwards. It was also draining the water out of my house and the other houses up in the bluffs. So we have very strict ordinances thickly because there's a lot of sand in Carver and that is possible. That was the result of a being off a couple of degrees in a leveling for a new development on the north side of

40. help that bluff. So, I've been involved with a number of bluff ordinances. [Music] It's one of the things at that time you're on the council, you became very familiar with bluff ordinances and people's anger over. But that's the reason. I mean, basically, if you lived in the bluffs at that point, you pretty much went a four- day weekend without without water pressure and I don't there's no reason that can't happen again here. It's the same bluff. It's just kind of east.

I think I came to the same conclusion that it does not Billy is your mic. Yep. Sorry. That it doesn't uh align with the bluff ordinance and that's one of the like things we need to say yes to, right? And that's The one that stood out to me is that doesn't align with that. I got a question. Um, sorry, I should have resources ahead of time, but if um, does the combination of three lots in one require the variance or not? Without a variance, could the lot still be combined into one, turn into a useful lot?

They could, yes. Not in this footprint. So it it would be a different project that would have to move forward. But yes, to make the lot more buildable, the lot combination should happen. So the combination is independent of the variance. Correct. Okay, cool. Comments.

Um, so I also came to the same conclusion. Um, but I took it from a little bit different angle. So I too live in the bluffs. We built our house in uh 2013 and I was astonished to the ground there, while it's not the same, you know, location, it's still a bluff, was 100% sand and I was surprised. Um, it created a challenging build environment for the builders. Um, and they they paid close attention to making sure that we weren't disrupting anything down the backside of the bluff. Um when I did my homework I um in my you know years of public safety it is all about safety and it's safety not it's not only safety but it's health and safety and the welfare of those that are living around the area where this bluff could be disturbed. But unbeknownst to me, it impact, you know, there were other issues that um impacted, you know, more of the city. And I don't think we're in a position um where we want to we want to do that here in the city of Carver. Um I also went through each of the questions. I couldn't answer yes to all. Um the comprehensive plan has this area as a single family home. So it's also not conducive right to a comprehensive plan.

So our comp plan for low density cover is usually R1 and R2 and R2 is a it is a permitted use in R2. So it would be consistent with the comp plan as low density. Yep. Um so yeah I just for the safety uh health and safety of welfare I just I can't support um encroaching on that 25 ft. Any further comments? I just got two questions. Um, so just for putting this all in context, do we have any idea when this property was acquired originally? Uh, 2023 early 2000s. Okay. So the ordinance was in effect before was acquired.

Correct. Great. I don't want to discourage improving the property because I think that would um that would be fantastic for the city to improve the property. Um but and I think there's an opportunity to do that uh following the setbacks that we we have in place. Any further comments? Can we ask again? Is there any comments from the public? Hey, can I have a motion to close the public? Oh, I'm sorry.

Can you Yeah, please do. And if you could state your name and address, that would be great. Thank you.

Good evening to all. My name is Samira Salikov. I am a resident of Carver County and I reside in Carver City. um Copper Hills um neighborhood. My address is 1892 um Older Way, Carver City. We are raising four boys and we fostering two boys, so six boys in our household. Um we originally when we moved to Carver because uh we found this as our new home and uh with um little history I guess with my uh my experience working with Carver um in past it didn't involve the hearing but we were able to when we came we made a home and then we were able to help u with some other properties that we you know had a good experience working with Aaron and um the other um you know staff from Carver. We made some beautiful improvements to property on the fourth. We made beautiful improvement on the property on the sixth street. I can name the addresses. But I think our goal was um to pay attention to those properties and you know bring them back to life. One house was bought and my dad lived in there and then you know another house was bought, my grandpa lived in there. We are very family oriented so we help each other especially plus we improve the places. Yes. Originally when we bought this home, um we saw a vision. We had a vision for this lot. Um and considering that there is a property and uh with all respect, I I respect the history and Mr. Jim um the last name is

Wand. Okay. Uh the history, yes, starts all the way back, right? and then have lived there. And I think the original history of this home owner, he lived at a different site and then it that site flooded and they he was moved to this site. And considering when this home was built and survived for so many years, I would I think that is my rationale behind, you know, this home was there, this home survived, it served as a home to someone, right? Safe home. I would emphasize that because if and it was older gentlemen right we're considering he you know knowing him he or as far as I know he lived by himself there was a family nearby but he lived by himself no resources much no family support much except for that family I think that are still supporting him and uh I guess my rationale and support would be to the existing structure and we just it is just impossible you know to remove that structure and bring back to the same you The life circumstances have changed, family circumstances have changed, right? Carver has grown significantly. Let's agree. Lots of young families are coming to our Carver. So, lots of families with children are coming. So, it is considering the size of that structure. That's what our vision is. Considering that it was safe for so long, we're hoping that someone will support us to make this dream come true. So, we make another beautiful project in the city of Carter and make it safe. And of course, we're going to work with the professionals and Mrs. Walsh. I don't know how to, you know, um, say it, I guess, but I will say Mrs. respect. And, um, you build your home, right? Do you still live in that home?

Yes. And are you safe? And I don't know if you have kids, but are you safe in that home? And your kids are safe in that home. So what I'm trying to say, you can make it safe. Yes. With all respect, you know, if it was just a lot with no structure in it, I would say yes. You know, let's respect. There's no house in there. And if I'm coming to the city and asking to allow me to build something and it's not allowed, that's it. It's not allowed. We were going based on there's a single family home to build another single family home or whatever is allowed in that area which is in this case is duplex to make it more livable more presentable more happy place for another families to enjoy or within our family you know my sis my brother is here he will be getting married and he will be bringing more kids to Carver County um so that is my rationale behind my desire my dream we as a working family in Carver County. Um, a hardworking family. We strongly believe that this home was safe for this gentleman and it's going to be another safe house for another family for next hundred years. But we will do, of course, all safety measurements. So, it continues to be safe. I mean, I don't know how to I've never been in this environment, so I'm just doing my best.

You're doing wonderful. Okay. I ple and if you can I I'll have that respect to the history but we are help we are hoping for the support because there is existing structure and that existing structure goes even beyond that line of our proposed structure I should say and it is pretty safe home it is still there and it's I've been inside have you been inside maybe I invite you to visit that home and check it out and see the structure Sure. Thank you. Do you have any questions for me, Mr. Ward? Yes.

Well, the problem is that the geography or the geology there is very fragile.

And it's reasonably safe if you don't disturb it. And you're going to disturb it. building the home that with the variance you're proposing. I mean, I have gone through more ordinances dealing with the slope variances in Carver and there's more than number of people who have been unhappy with them. And we tried to come up with something, you know, that was considerate of the people going, moving in, we're wanting to build and protecting the slopes. And I, you know, I I just explained one case and I have no reason to believe that similar problem could happen here.

May I add May I Okay, Mrs. Walsh, may I ask you what year did you I know you mentioned what year did you build your home? 2013. 2013. And in the bluff ordinances within the bluff ordinances or after bluff or Oh, with Oh, within Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, you basically followed the bluff ordinances. That's what But we you were still able to build you very near to that bluff, right? Our lot I think might even Yeah, I can't compare our lot size to this, right? Okay.

I don't I don't know our lot size. Yeah, we followed we, you know, we followed the uh the rules, if you will, and the setback requirements to build where we um Erin, can you um clarify what year was that other home was built, the original home? Do you have the dates for that structure for your house? For this structure? I don't have I didn't bring anything. I thought I had read somewhere it was 1800s.

Okay. Uh, that was the Carver County property records that I went and looked at because I was curious when was it purchased? Um, how was it rated and when was it built? I think it was 1800. I'd have to go and look, but it was it's probably over 100 years old. It's possible. I don't know what the date is. You can get that information off the Carver County property records. is uh built in 1890. 1890. Yeah, I got the county GIS website. Yeah, that's where I got it.

So, it's it's old 120 years old. any other um

and what are your sorry I know I'm just trying to so if there's existing house you know doesn't the I guess the owner community member has the some kind of support or right to like you just you know the house is becoming not safe but this is the only house he has to live in you know like don't you like can restore it rebuild build it. You know what I mean? Like from that perspective, you're still touching and changing something and adding something. And if that family wants to add a space, so it would be the same concept. And I know you you mentioned that it's like one case and I am also mentioning one case, it's fair, but of course I'm just advocating for the project. And while you, you know, you are maybe going based on the ordinances, please don't forget it had a structure. It was once touched. It was once built before the ordinances maybe happened, right? And I'm not saying, oh, we should keep doing it, but we should have some kind of support and right to rebuild this beautiful structure and turn it into livable structure because we all know this is their old structure and this is this needs attention.

So, similar application. This is illegal non-conforming. So, we've reviewed that a couple times as a group. What we do in that situation is that you cannot make the legal non-conforming bigger or larger. So, they would be able to build on the existing foundation. No additions to the home, just the existing footprint. Does it does it have a foundation? Yeah, I think it has a basement, doesn't it?

Does have a it does have a foundation. Yes. the the problem with the bluffs and I have a I have two bluffs in my property. I'm up in the bluffs also. One goes up, one goes down. They are fairly stable if you don't disturb them. And the rules bluff ordinances govern quite strongly. I still believe that that's the issues. you can't remove uh trees or I don't remember what the rules are specifically, but that's that's what the hindrance is. You don't want to disturb the bluff. You want to leave it as stable as is currently. It doesn't really have anything to do with the building. Has to do with the bluff itself. And what you're asking to do is going to disturb the bluff. I think that um I have a lot of appreciation for what you do because I have three boys and sometimes I wish I had my own duplex to put those boys in uh and bottle them up a little bit. Um and I think when I walk through downtown, there are a lot of properties that I wish they were doing exactly what you're doing, which is fixing them up and making them look beautiful. and I have a lot of respect for that. Um, I just don't know enough about the bluffs and the structural it to be able to like with confidence pass it on to the city council and say like I feel good about this, which is why it's just a recommendation what we send on, right? But they have engineers and people that are more informed than me that will be able to do that. But for me, when it comes to um disturbing the

area, if there's any potential for, hey, this is going to create noise, maybe not for you, but for the not noise, but create problems for the people around you, then I just wouldn't feel good about doing that, right? And so, I think for me, that's what it comes down to isn't, hey, this house is a problem. It's just I don't I don't know enough about structural integrity and that sort of thing to be able to say, "Yeah, I feel really good about this property going up and disturbing the area around it." If that makes sense.

It does make sense and it's fair enough. But I do have what comes to my mind is the bluff ordinances came at 2000, right? So before people were able to build and and cover is an old town, right? It's a it has it's a historic town. So I have a question just going back to the data and how many houses and how many households were able to do that before 2000 and how safe are they and how successful are they? You know what I mean? And I am limited. I'm not you know I'm just a mother. I am an educator and I'm a nurse that is raising six kids and I'm the one that is motivated. I do I am very and I I plan to stay in Carver. I plan to raise them all here. We don't have any plans moving. So yes, I'm very motivated person I guess enthusiastic in terms of making beautiful and I plan to open another business in Carver. I really Aaron knows I'm always looking for a space to open a little business to bring more life to Carver. My question is before ordinances were people able to do this? How many people did that? How many structures are there? Are they safe? You know what I mean? Like using actually data and maybe that's going to go against me. Maybe it's not going to go against me. But I think those are fair thoughts that are just coming to my brain. I wasn't prepared here. I'm just discussing it with you and I hope it's fair and safe. But those are what coming to me before bluff ordinances. Were people able to do that? And I know like there are some concerns maybe happened but we are in a maybe technology have moved advanced right and I'm we will we're not builders. So let's make it clear we will definitely use lots of um professionals here that have the scope of knowledge to help us you know to achieve this dream but how many people have done it and how many houses

collapsed and became not safe you know that those are the thoughts that I have right now thank you

so I can't speak to a specific number obviously but Carver in 2000 was a vastly different place I would say a majority of the houses that exist in Carver now did not exist in 2000. I will remind the planning commission of a couple of projects that we have reviewed recently that have adhered to the bluff ordinance and it's been tough. We've held strong to the ordinances to make sure that the houses are outside of the bluff the tier one the tier two setback. So two in recent history is Hawthorne Ridge. So that's the 81 unit project that Dr. Horton just constructed. It's the property just kind of north of here and they were able to put 81 houses in that development without impacting the bluff. The second is Brookview which I think all of you remember was a long process. There was a lot of feedback from that neighborhood asking us to preserve the bluff and the bluff ordinance and they came out with 22 lots. Those projects could have been significantly bigger if they had been able to impact the bluff in ways that frankly a builder would probably want to to maximize profit. they would build a house and leave. Um, so I would say taking that number of houses built since 2000. Um, it's probably downtown and what people sometimes call Midtown Carver. So Dedric Drive, High Street, Sibi, etc. I'd say those houses exist, but I wouldn't say those are areas that are overly topographic. But projects that have gone in since the Bluff ordinance are the Bluffs, Hawthorne Ridge, and Brookview. So, the tricky part about this too is I get calls fairly frequently from folks in the bluffs that want to do a pool or sport court, but they have that bluff tier in their backyard. And I have to say it doesn't meet the bluff ordinance. And they typically walk away instead of going down the variance process just knowing that Carver has typically held our bluff ordinance to be what it is, the preservation of it to be important. So, uh this is unique because there is an existing structure. as kind of a one-off

property, but I do think there are likely implications if we move forward with this one for folks to try to make the same application citywide. Thank you. Any other comments?

Yeah, just one comment. So, I mean, I I do appreciate what you're trying to do with the property. um is something that's probably needed, but um basically get emotional argument versus a data driven argument is what we got going on here. And uh the board knows this, but I have a background in civil engineering. And so I'm very hesitant without any kind of calculations or engineering studies on this about approving a variance where we start excavating inside the setbacks without some kind of engineering solution showing us that that risk is acceptable or there is no risk at all that approving this variance is going to not compromise safety at this point. So without seeing that kind of data, I I just don't feel comfortable recommending that because the the variance or sorry the the setbacks and all are there for a reason. Someone did a lot of extensive math long or a few years ago and so unless that math has changed, we got to assume the math is still valid. [Music]

Erin, one other question. Um there's this driveway that goes is there a house up on the top? Yes. So the letter that was in the packet, the property owner lives there.

Erin, if we were all to approve this and it goes forward to city city council at that point, is there then reviews by uh our engineers and and such to then look at that and go like let's say we will approve it because we're not experts on uh construction. A lot of the things we voiced concerns over. That's my hesitancy to sort of also deny it is that I can take Jim's word for it and I do believe you. Uh, but I've never I never drilled into the bluff and I'm trying to look at it as objectively as possible. Full disclosure, I do know the owner up on top of that hill, which is why I'm just thinking real hard about even what I say. Just trying to make sure I keep that as objective as possible. Uh, but I think the point is really fair that you made that the existing structure could be modified. It's 1800. So, if you were to build that, which I would say the person on top of there would probably also appreciate as well, that's 1800s. That foundation is probably going to have to be disturbed to remodel. You're probably not going to build a new structure on top of 1800s. I wouldn't uh house, right? And then I think her point is if I have to do that, then I'm already disturbing the bluff. So, what is the difference of disturbing it there? It's in non-conforming, so it's allowed, but I can't disturb it to build a bigger thing. And objectively speaking, I'm regardless of what I think about 78 800 square feet there. Um, that's what I personally struggle with because I see she can disturb it legally one way, but then she can't disturb it the other way. I don't know what the difference is there. So, if weird approve it, does go to city council and then it can go through our engineers where then they could say, "Look, this isn't far enough off." So, by that standard, you can't. It could that could be a path forward, but I would say the investment into that level of engineering would far exceed what this property is worth.

I also just anecdotally I've shared with Samira through this process, we've seen probably eight or 10 versions of this project and I think there is a path forward for a project. I think the scale of this one is what was troubling at a staff level that it's um from the existing structure it's pushing the boundary of every setback that I think that there could be a smaller scale project that could possibly work. It might require a variance but it's not as big as possible on this site.

Thank you Mr. for hearing me for being a little bit more objective because you said it just a little bit better way maybe what what I was trying to say and as a mother as a just critical thinker those are my thoughts if you can't touch it I have to touch it because as I said if I happen to live in this home with my kiddos it's probably not safe home right but I have the right to do something to create that safe space so if I'm touching it then don't I want to become do it different and better way and when it comes to the investment as I said we're a very hardworking family our father we are watching our 89 years old father the whole carver knows him sheriffs know him too he walks and he sometimes collects the grape leaves so he stopped by our house and he said is he touching somebody's grape leaves outside of the house so what I'm trying to say when it comes to the investment we are realizing that you when we bought a property on Fourth Street, it was scary property. So, one day I'm getting a phone call from a same street and he's like, "Zamira, I wish I had the same vision that you had. I was scared of that home cuz when you walking into that Fourth Street home, Yellow Street, the address is 708 now. You can stop by, but it had a huge hole in the roof. You know, not everybody is dares to do that. Like, what I'm going to do with this house?" It has the I don't know 1 m by 1 m hole, and it was snowing, by the way. And when we walked in, that is my dad who lives on the sixth street and you should stop by his house now. He has beautiful cherry trees and he has be just beautiful property now than what it used to be. And yes, it takes a lot of investment, but that's what we do as a family. It's not just one man project. It's a family project and we unite and we would love to make it beautiful. And again, thank you, Mr. Paul. That's what

exactly I was just trying to say. If I'm touching it and I'm allowed to touch it, am I not disturbing it anyways? And if I'm doing it, Mr. Jensky, with professionals, of course, I'm not going to be the one who is building, but I would like to get, of course, the engineers involved and give us some safety ideas and implementations of some techniques so we can just accomplish what we want to accomplish, especially if people were accomplishing it before 2000s. And again, this is unique case. It's not a, you know, a case that day by day you see. It's a unique case. It happened to be that this property was built that close to Bluff before the ordinances existed and we're just trying to make it work.

Erin, one cl Thank you for that. One clarifying question. If she was to touch it today, using your words, um, she can stay within the confines of the existing foundation. Correct. Correct. If wants to add on a closet, a porch, a bedroom that expands the footprint of the existing structure. That would require this process. Correct? So, we're not saying that you can't improve the current structure.

You can do that. But if you want to expand it and make it bigger, you're now disrupting the the bluffs. You're disrupting what we're trying to protect because the the house is right there at the bluff line. You're within that 25 ft with the existing house. So that's what makes it nonconforming. But the property is old. It's not safe anymore. I will have to break it apart. I cannot use the same foundation. That was the I guess the idea. Ma'am, Mrs. Walsh, I understand. Sorry, Brent. Go ahead.

Yeah, just just a couple of uh comments. So, one, Zabira has been great. She's done a lot of great things in the community and updated properties. Hard part is the engineering has been done on this ordinance. So the reason the ordinance is the way it is is because the engineers have done that data. There's a lot of stuff that the DNR has that we follow. So a lot of it is mirrored. Um I would say to the the words that you use, Chair Walsh, of existing non-conforming is critical in that the city can't take away a right someone's already had. So they had the right that building was conforming at the time it was built in 1890, but now it's nonconforming. So this if the probably the city had its uh prerogative they would say we don't want any home there but we can't take that away. So I would offer that a argument to say that as long as you're digging you can add more is is not is not um in the benefit and the spirit of the ordinance. It's we they have the right to dig down and replace the foundation, but they're inherently making it the situation worse, which the city is why they created the ordinance to protect it. And then, um, last but not least, and, uh, some of the folks in the room might remember, I know Jim will, but, you know, our former city attorney, Larry Harris, would talk about precedents. And so, as uh, Mr. Wagan mentioned there have been probably, you know, between almost probably 50 people that have tried to uh work through uh Aaron Smith or past planners to try to get variances or build pieces. Um and the city council, the planning commission have been steadfast in holding that ordinance. Um you'd be in a position of being somewhat arbitrary to say, "Hey, we're going to select this person." And then you'd likely have, you know, over

the course of the year a half dozen to a dozen other other folks to say, "Hey, I'd just like to do that, too." And if you're that doesn't mean you have to say no here. You just then we would have to be willing to consider that whole other set of fact pattern with all those other folks. Um there is an opportunity to to develop this property. Um and Erin has gone over several of those and we've talked about those in different meetings. This one requires a variance and I think the bluff ordinance has established the reasons that have been mentioned and that have been uh happened kind of throughout the last couple decades why the city has been so diligent about protecting that bluff uh for the reasons that have been stated and for dozens of other stories that have happened that we haven't shared tonight.

Thank you Brent. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate your comments. Um, do I have to close the public hearing before I Yes. Can I get a motion to uh Well, let me ask is there anybody else that wants to speak? Close the public hearing. So, moved. Oh, seconded. Thank you. All right. Can I get a motion to either approve or deny the variance application to city council? I'll make a motion to deny. Right. There's a motion to deny the variance. Is there a second?

Second. Any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Right. Moving on to uh Taco Bell.

Thank you, chair and members of the commission. The second request before you tonight is a concept plan review for Taco Bell. The application has been provided by Border Foods. We have a representative in the audience tonight, too. So, we'll go through a presentation and then have a discussion. The request before you tonight is concept plan review. So that's when you provide general feedback on use, request additional information you'd like to see at the next application. So again, just general feedback. Um, this plan, they've submitted some uh pretty developed plan, so we might know some of the answers that you're looking for. Uh, typically we typically just see this site plan and then some building renderings. We have some more information about this project. So in general, the project is part of Carver Commons. So, Quick Trip, Hometown Bank, Next Steps Learning Center, Lushwab, which is under construction now, and then the Taco Bell would be directly south of that. The blue arrow on the screen is that slip right that was recently constructed. So, there will be an additional access into the site, uh, likely when Taco Bell opens. And then the application considers splitting the lot. So, it's one outlet right now north of Hometown Bank and Quick Trip. So the application at preliminary plat would split the lot giving Taco Bell a smaller piece with 1.3 remaining acres in an outlot that could be developed at a future date. So in total there would be the outlot adjacent to Taco Bell next steps learning center and then the large piece the one adjacent to nexteps is about an acre. The larger one north is about 11 acres. So those would be the develop develop developable properties that would be left on the property. The property is owned freeway commercial and Taco Bell is a permitted use. Um, it obviously doesn't specifically say permitted uses. Taco Bell, yes. Culver's no. So, the city does not choose the type of or we choose the type of business, not the specific. So, Taco Bell falls within our freeway commercial district. And a drive-through is also permitted here. There's information in our city code about distance from residential properties, needs to be 300

feet or have a street between. So Jonathan Carver Parkway serves that as well. It's also it's a pretty significant distance from houses on Spring Creek Drive. So the renderings that were included in the packet, this would be if you are if you have Next Steps Learning Center behind you and you're looking towards Jonathan Carver Parkway. So the building in the proposed plans is 2,867 square feet. It's on a a plat that would be platted as 1.2 acres. It meets the requirements and the setbacks of the zoning district. So no variances are being requested from the zoning district and it proposes 30 parking stalls. So again this is the view if you're standing with next steps behind you looking towards Jonathan Carver Parkway and the other side with the full drive through. So this would be Jonathan Carver Parkway at your back. The one on the right would be as you're traveling south on JCP. That would be the view of the building. The drive-thru has nine car lengths within the drive-thru. And the additional overflow would go into a parking lot, not a city street. So, if that drive-through really gets busy late at night, it would flow directly into their parking lot. Wouldn't impact traffic flow. There are tables and bar stool seings for 38 seats and the trash enclosures fully integrated into the building. Final view of the building as you enter the site. So, this would be like coming north from hometown bank entering into the Taco Bell site. So the city code falls calls for exteriors in this district to be made of brick, stone, glass, stuckco, fiber, cement siding or any combination thereof or decorative material approved by the city council. The proposed materials are a hardy plank which is lap siding. I think it's nia nia siding fiber cement siding. I know our building inspectors really like it. They get really amped up when they see it and they talk about it a lot. They'll be embarrassed. I don't know how to say it. and then weathered rustic metal on the corner tower. On the screen now is the site plan. So

you can see how the building lays out. On the far right of the plan would be Jonathan Carver Parkway. The front of the building faces Next Steps or interior to Carver Commons with the drive-thru along JCP. You can also start to get your bearings. The parking that you see on the far bottom is Hometown Bank's last bay of parking. So some connection into the rest of the site. Then you can see how the street lines up north to the Lehwab property as well. uh in the packet, this plan was uh flipped. So, if you all remember, Cindy Monroe would get really mad at me if I didn't have things oriented correctly. So, it looks this looks different from the packet because it's flipped. That next steps would be down, JCP would be up. So you can see the vestibule, the interior seating of about 38 seats, the trash enclosure is on the far right side, and then the arrow is indicating the drive-thru of how it works around the building. So general layout here. And then two plans that the plan commission usually looks at is the photoometric plan to make sure that no light is leaving the site and disrupting neighbors. So you can see uh the line, the kind of squiggle line around it is where the light falls ends at the site so it does not leave the property. And then on the right is a landscape plan. So throughout the plan they have a generous offering of deciduous ornamental perennials and grasses throughout the site. So a landscape plan that would adhere to our city code and be complimentary to other buildings on site. So again the renderings of the property uh if you want to invite the applicant up to join the discussion that is at your discretion but I'll open it up for discussion.

I do have one question. Is it how it comes in with Lee Schwab? Mhm. Is the what' you call that thing off of JCP? The slip right. Slip right. I'm going to remember that. Sounds smart next time I say it. The slip right um the Taco Bell parking lot would come up to whatever that road's going to be called, right? Yes. Okay. So, is there a name of that road yet? Um Market Drive. Market Drive. Yeah. All right. So, the Taco Bell parking lot's going to go to Market Drive, correct? And then they could also go the other way to they could leave the site this way. Yep.

Okay. So, this is a oneway in. So, you won't be able to exit from this direction, but you could go straight up to Taco Bell. You could come in this way or you could use the full access. Okay, that was my one question was how does it intersect with leash? Generally the property lines will will be shared so it splits right between the two. Any other Yeah. Just with that remaining 1.3 acres the lot west of where the proposed Taco Bell location is going to be. Is that also still a United property? Yes. Okay. So it will uh it would still be a buildable lot that they would be marketing for development.

Okay. Do we have any idea what might go there or any interest yet? No, we met with a broker that has been working on the site and he gave us really I think fantastic feedback about the market in Carver that people are looking at the site um

still trying to land kind of that anchor user. So, I just think anecdotally the fact that they've been keeping that 11 acre piece has been telling to me to say they're actively working on some type of bigger user or else that site could probably develop similarly with smaller uses. But, um, we get calls fairly frequently like a liquor store user, strip mall, like a Snap Fitness has poked around a little bit. So, nothing definite, but information we got from the broker is that it's a it's an active site. Folks are looking at it. Okay. Okay. Well, I was more concerned about the 1.3 acres. So, I'm just fearful that if we may don't want to go down a path where that 1.3 acres isn't developable for whatever reason. Now, we got just this blank lot sitting in the middle of all these buildings. Yep.

But it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, that 1.3 is still would be developable. Yes. When we split, correct? Or if we split for talk. Okay. Right. Any other comments? Do we have somebody from United here to talk about Neither? Neither. You look like you want to come join us. I'd love to come up. Please do. Open it up. So, will you introduce yourself? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. My name is Zach Zelixson. I'm with Marvin Development and Border Foods. Um, we operate almost all of the Taco Bells in Minnesota except for one. We just opened our 100th one. We'll be opening in fall in Ramsey. So,

Dang, that would have been fun. Yeah, you missed it. you just missed it. So, um I've been working with United Properties for almost seven years here on the site with Tomstrom. Um so, we've been looking at Carver for a long time. Um so, we've taken a lot of thought into the metrics and how we think we'd perform. Sorry, I'm recovering from a cold like Aaron is too. And, um so we're yeah, we're excited to come here and we've been working really closely with United Properties on common area roads and all of the declarations required for shared access and things like that. um and been working with Aaron and on the site plan and we we came with a pretty fully developed set to try to address any issues early on. So here to answer any questions you have on the project. Did you did you do the one in Jordan?

Um that was right before I started there, but that was our company. Yes. Yes. Because I I saw a lot of similarities between this one and the one in Jordan. Yep. That was one rendition before this building. Um this is the this is called the Endeavor model. before in Jordan was a version called the Explorer Light. Um but here we'll have um our most updated format of what we're building now and um one of our largest dining rooms. So I think to our next meeting we'll discuss the the reduction in the parking. Um what we're showing is more than required um for our use and we thought it'd be better to be throwing in some more trees and have an extra lane for flow and things like that for our customers.

Will you tell me how to say that sighting? Niha, you did pretty good. Yeah, it's a fiber cement that's similar to the Hardy board lab. So, any comments or discussion? Um, is purple I'm not going to lie, I think it'd be kind of cool to have purple, but is there a color? Not in this district specifically. It's eye-catching. It's very It's very Vikings. Very Taco Bell. It's very Taco Bell school.

I don't think I've seen Carver Life this positive about something since ever. So Carver life is very exciting for a Taco Bell. The the comments on our city post were a whole It's a wild ride. If you want to read those, too. That's pretty fun. Yeah, we've we've been getting calls in our office, too, for a couple years. So, uh to come to town, so yeah, it' be good. All right. Any other questions? Nothing. All right. Do you have one? Oh, please. Mr. Yeah. Thank you. If you could you could introduce yourself, your name and your address, please.

Yes. Uh I'm Brian Parker. I live in the Meadows of Spring Creek just across Jonathan Carver east side. Um and I'm at 1898 Green Ash Drive. And I just wanted to share some thoughts and observations with regards to the materials. You all sound real excited about the Ishia and um when I first saw the renderings, it kind of appeared similar to a Schwab. The the recessed areas kind of look like overhead service doors to me a little bit. So that was just a concern. Um, and then I've driven around and looked at the Jordan, Taco Bell, the Shakape, and also the Wakonia to see kind of what those material exterior materials were. And I just thought with the adjacent buildings, the um Nextepth Learning Center, um, sorry, I had a cold, too. um you know the hometown bank and even uh Quick Trip you know has got more natural materials like brick you know stone stonework and stuff and I've seen some of the other uh Taco Bells that use some of that even the Jordan has some wood accents on it. Yes, they do.

Very similar to this. I just thought it would it would be a little more contextual with the uh area, especially with the surrounding neighborhoods, you know, ours as well as the one uh west of the sites. Um so, I just wanted to share those thoughts and observations. Um I thought it looked a little industrial and if you have seen the tower in Jordan, it's very much like a rusted metal look and I know that's more modern. Um but I just wanted to share those thoughts with you guys. That's all I have. Thank you, Mr. Parker. I do agree with you. That is one of the reasons I asked about Jordan is because Jordan has the purple, but they have a wood

metal slat wall. Yeah, metal slat wall that's over purple. So, it kind of mutes it a little bit. Um, and I thought that I mean the purple is great, but it's a lot of purple. And to your point, when you got Lee Schwab going up with a lot of Yeah. So, so, um, you know, if there's an opportunity maybe to take some of that feedback back to mute it down a little bit, but, um, they'll be back, uh, you know. Yeah, I know this is just a concept review through the process. Right. All right, that's all I have. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for coming. Appreciate the time. All right. Okay. Any other Taco Bell? Hi.

Oh, yes. My name is Laura Carlson. I live on Kirk Hill Drive. I built the house in 1996. Um and um the reason I am here is because of the stars. Thrilled to have Taco Bell Lewab and all the things coming in. When I moved here, we could see the Milky Way. Um and you we have lost that in 20 years. And are any of you aware that we have an observatory 15 miles down the road?

Okay. They see it better than we do, but we have the opportunity now to let's not lose our night sky totally to the Taco Bell sign. Um, so I am a NASA ambassador. I work with Star Skies North, which is a Minnesota branch of the International Dark Sky Association. I wasn't prepared for this, but I we have a document that I can send to you. Uh, it does talk about the um damage it does to the wildlife, the fish, the algae blooms that happen. All of this is being caused by our night skies being lost. Human circadian rhythms are something else that's getting lost. So, there's a lot of damage that's done by all this light. And so, when Jonathan Carver started being built up, um they were I'll step back about seven years maybe, XL Energy actually came along Kirk Hill Drive and other parts of the city and they put in down lighting, LED lighting that is light night sky friendly. And I have this in front of my house. You can see my entire front yard. It's wonderful. If you go in my backyard, it's dark. So, I'm not asking it to be dark, but we do have ways to light that are night sky friendly that allow us to still keep our night sky, allow us to see these things, and it feel totally safe. Um, so if you can tell me where I should send that so you can get that, I'd be happy to share that document.

Yeah, you can send it to me.

Okay. And Okay. Um, so yeah. Yeah. And so that's, you know, this is I thought this was a really perfect chance because we all know what Taco Bell looks like. purple or not, that sign is going to be really bright. And if you go down when I'm coming home from star parties at the observatory and I'm used to my night sky and I come in, that bank sign is screaming in my eyes, right? And that's we don't need that light on a bank at 10:00 at night. Now, Taco Bell, we do. We need that. I got the munchies after my star party and I definitely want, but I don't need to have Taco Bell screaming in LED lights across my skyline. And so not just Taco Bell, but also the rest of the future development that's coming up. I'd like us to consider really consider the starry skies. This is actually a grassroots movement that's kind of growing around the world. The international dark sky association is certifying places as dark sky friendly, including towns. Um Ele is one. Um we have them in Minnesota. They have them all over the world now. They're becoming tourist destinations. And with Carver having this 10 miles away beautiful observatory, I feel like we could start bringing this in, start highlighting Carver as a whole, Carver. So, if anybody has any questions,

okay, thank you. Thank you. You can get Aaron's um email address off the city website. Okay. Thank you. All right. Anything else? Okay. Am I giving it to Brent? No, I'll start. Okay. And sorry just providing feedback. Do you have slides? [Music] We didn't coordinate. All right. Aaron and our Brent is going to be talking about the property acquisition for the public services space. Okay. Thank you. The third request,

thank you for coming. Third request before the planning commission is to review the public services the future public services location and the question before the planning commission is is it consistent with a comprehensive plan. So this is similar to the request that you did recently with United Properties um thinking about that use with the tiff district. So it was just thinking about is this project consistent with a comprehensive plan. So there's a letter included in the packet that can be forwarded on to the city council with your findings. So that's included. So some details about the site and how we got here. The city's been working on a future home of public services. I hope you all know that to be true and information we've put in the newsletter, the city website, meetings, etc. And the city is oper has identified property south of current city limits east of the Somefield project. And just something to note, this project is not the property is not likely to develop independently. It is surrounded on most sides by US Fish and Wildlife property. So getting to this uh property for a developer is likely pretty tough. So it became a spot that public services felt like it could find its new home. So the location for the site is in red right now on the screen. So which is the summergate project is this is their big intersection. This is the project that we were reviewing for Summerfield. Current city limits stop about here. So thinking about location, we are souththeast of current city limits in this location. So in our comprehensive plan, the property is guided low density residential. Cherry had a really good question today thinking about essential services. It's not listed inherently in the comprehensive plan that it's a permitted use, but we take the guidance from the comprehensive plan and bring it back to the zoning ordinance to see what the permitted uses are in each district. So this is the chart from um section 50 of the city code which is a zoning ordinance that lists out the residential uses and you can see essential services

there are permitted throughout residential district. So uh from that take my opinion that the project is consistent with the city code. So that's your request. Uh I'm going to turn it over to Brent. I'm not sure what his slide looks like. So it's very similar. Okay. Looks black. That's it.

There we go. [Music] So, as Aaron mentioned, uh just wanted to put together a kind of a slide on kind of the area and just a little bit of a deeper dive on public services. Uh we're not committing to building a building at this point. We're going through what's called design development. So, uh the f the first step is we're going to be in early October doing a tour of facilities that we think might be kind of in our spectrum. So, uh, the planning commission is welcome to attend. We're going to invite the council staff from public services as well. Um, but design development will, um, develop a kind of a concept and a pretty detailed cost structure. And a critical part of that is, uh, having a site and this understanding of all commissions, the planning commission understands that property is at a premium right now and something you might like today might be gone tomorrow for development. Um and the prices are increasing exponentially. So uh looking at the site as Aaron mentioned uh it's very difficult to develop around. Uh so we're going to be uh our concept is bringing water and sewer with the summergate or summer field project. Uh but the water and sewer would be only specifically for our use. Uh so it wouldn't be something that could be expanded upon. Um and you can see on the kind of the bottom that's the boundary line between Delgrid and San Francisco Township. So that's our in essence our south boundary line. Um but as far as like public works sites go uh having uh no development to the east uh undeveloped probably undeveloped uh land with a pretty significant bluff and ravine system. We do have a a property owner to the south that we want to connect with um as the project develops, but at this point we don't have a year.

When we get through design development, probably sometime in the spring of 26, we want to go through a pretty robust community engagement process and talk about the costs and scenarios. Uh and then there'll be a question about like the timing and what makes sense not just for public services but the community, the tax implications, so on and so forth. So we right now are just looking to get the land as a critical function of the design development process understanding that uh the kind of the choice of when it's built and how it's built are unfolding. So happy to answer any questions about the project or this piece of land specifically.

Yeah, I got a question Brent. So I know the plans are as solid as Jello right now, but Right. Uh what kind of services do you envision would eventually end up at this location? Uh what specifically are we kind of thinking?

So essentially it's what you see today next to the fire station. So it's you know I would say it's primary focus is uh a garage that stores vehicles and equipment. So um during the day it'll be pretty active with vehicles going in and out. Um, I would say uh infrequently hopefully during the winter it's uh you know there'll be some uh vehicles for snow plowing, our salt storage shed would be out there uh gas pumps etc. Um but uh relative I would offer a relatively quiet site because all the um vehicles and equipment are designed we want to have them inside. Um, so there would shouldn't be a lot of backing up, alarms, etc. Um, and then I would say some uh, you know, minimal office area just for like a conference room, lunchroom, bathrooms, etc. Um,

essentially it's a large vehicle yard. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's expandable over time. Correct. So this is uh approximately 22 acres, which is uh, you know, probably more than you know what we need. But the space study called out that for a 50-year need. So, you have space to expand the building uh space to extend expand uh kind of equipment or what they call bone yard. So, like material storage of you know wood chips, black dirt, uh gravel, sand, uh etc. Are you planning to do repair work here as well?

Vehicle repair. Correct. There would be so right now we don't have like a dedicated vehicle base. So they in some of the concept plans that are available from the space study on the website they have dedicated um maintenance bays within the inside the facility. So it typically I think there's like a large maintenance bay and then a a small maintenance bay so that if you have a vehicle that you're servicing that's maybe you're waiting for some parts and it's maybe a a bigger takedown that stays in there and then you have a smaller uh maintenance bay that you can maybe do some oil changes. There's al also be a wash bay which we currently don't have. Um, and we have, if you look at some of the pictures or you're out and about, you can see we have quite a bit of trucks and vehicles and plows parked outside. Um, and we're in several different facilities. So, one of the the things that's going to has come up and will probably come up as we continue to have this community dialogue is the amount of times and the number of hours our staff spends rotating vehicles. So, um, if they have like the street sweeper parked, it sometimes it's in like the middle of the garage. So, they have to take half a dozen pieces of equipment out, take the street sweeper out, then put all the stuff back in. And then they rotate by season as well for lawnmowers, uh, snowplow equipment, etc. So there's some um kind of operational inefficiencies you know but the biggest piece is as you all know is the cost of doing business and buildings is expensive and so understanding you know what we need and how to put that together. We use a lot of the analogy of like can we just kind of build the house and finish the basement later. you know, what other types of like efficiencies and, you know, pieces uh can we put together to make this a a

project that people can get their hands around? Because if you make it too large and are too future focused, you know, the early part of the debt service feels like it's anchoring, especially a community our size. But if it one of the primary goals of the council is to make this facility last as long as the debt would, you know, so kind of like when you buy a car, you want to make sure that you're still using the car by the time, you know, you have the loan paid off, rather than trying to like say, well, I still owe three years on this car, but I want to get rid of it because it's too small, etc. So, um, again, so much work to do on that. Uh we're right on the kind of the precipice of just kind of like understanding what we need. Uh we have a new uh public services director, Andrew Simmons, who wasn't involved or wasn't here when we did the concept planning. So I think uh along with a new uh utility superintendent, Jordan Wii. So Jordan, Andrew, and then most of you know Paul Schultz has been here for 25 years. having the three of them work together with their team and right sizing a bath set kind of the architect said okay if you have this much equipment you need this many square feet to kind of rightsize that and say well you know that's under like if we're not being efficient at all with the use of space and understanding how some of these pieces fit together maybe you need that but I think there's some uh creativity uh and some other opportunities to be more efficient with how that space is used so we uh narrow down that footprint while also being uh focused so that we don't go back to the community in five years and say h we built too small. And so there's that uh trying to find that right space, if you will, to see where that is. And that's going to take some time and we want to be patient with that. But again, it all gets back to that first step of getting the land. Um because there we we spent over a year looking at different

properties throughout the community and each of them had a different story. This land is flat. Um it's already on a county road. Um and is because of the kind of the adjacent development or its kind of lack of its ability to develop. It was priced as such. But as you can imagine, as you get closer and closer to Jonathan Carver Parkway, uh you're well into the $150,000 an acre mark for property. And then you have to ask yourself, and I know the planning commission will get this, is well, then you're putting a taxexempt property on a spot where an industrial business or a commercial retail could develop. And one of the major goals of the council and I think the planning commission would agree is to diversify our tax base so there's not so much of a burden on our residential property taxpayers. So um I know council member Pasco is here and she was a part of that process to look at some of those guiding principles of um location not disrupting tax base uh cost. this was uh the most affordable site uh for all the properties that we looked at um infrastructure costs etc. So that was a long-winded answer to your question. Sorry,

that was very thorough. Yeah, I I do have another followup question. Um obviously we got the US Fish and Wildlife and DNR property on the east side of uh 11 there. Um, I assume the site's been kind of vetted through those two agencies. You know, so concerns about PLL storage or any groundwater contaminations that emissions and stuff so close to basically public land. Is there any concerns there we need to be worried about? Uh, they don't have any regulatory authority over like a private piece of property.

Uh, we do we do our own due diligence. So right now we we're hoping to close on the property by the end of the year. Uh so we've done or in the process of doing soil borings. We do a a mini environmental review, uh title search, um etc. Um, as it relates to the the single family home to the south, you know, as we kind of get into that design development, you know, we're going to be really passionate about, you know, what we can do by trees and natural landscaping, birming to to protect kind of their viewhed. They have a a nice property out there, but uh we're not under any additional regulations because of adjacent property owners.

So, no no conflict with essentially industrial use next to conservation land. No. if we you know but also like they're not going to we also know they're not going to sell that land either. So but they're they don't have a mechanism to make requirements of a property they don't own.

I'll also say like if we were dumping any hazardous waste that's a permit through the county we don't do that but if we did we'd have to follow follow the kind county guidelines and get that permit too. So there are a couple catchalls for that if it were to happen. Brent, I'm just curious why it ended up here versus like more in the the center of our future city like 43 and that's probably the far west side of the border, but it feels like it's down on the southwest corner and kind of tucked out of the way. I don't know. Well, uh, it just feels out of place in comparison where all the rest of the world's going to be.

Sure. Uh which maybe isn't a bad thing.

Yeah. Right. I mean that's a I would say a reason to put it where it is. I mean it's it's tax exempt, right? It's a uh public works facility. Um I would also offer kind of using the analogy of like Taco Bell and Taco John's. Everyone kind of has like a different preference. Uh I really relied on and I think the council relied on uh the public services director and the team. this was their preferred site. Um, you're going to have to drive kind of regardless. Right now, the I would say the the heart of the city is south of 212. Yes, we have growth potential north. Uh, but the director was wanting to avoid, you know, four traffic lights to go from north to south. Uh, the other thing is just, you know, if you go west, you know, we have that's, you know, west of Carver Elementary. that's where the bulk of our uh residential is. And so now you're dragging uh all that through the cost of infrastructure. Is it accessible to water and sewer? Because fundamentally you're you know our sphere is or available properties is only properties that are adjacent to um current city limits or water sewer street. Otherwise your prices increase because we have a county road here. Um, and I think we're frankly in the uh neighborhood of I can't remember the exact amount. Was it like 35,000 per acre?

That sounds right.

Um, so when you're I think and I'll kind of defer to council member Pascal, but when your public works team says this is their preferred site, um, it's on a county road, so you don't have that cost. three fours of the site isn't to be the most affordable for the taxpayers. Those are all significant check marks, but yeah, you could choose other sites. Um, but when you can buy 22 acres for 900,000 versus you, our initial budget was 3 million, you know, I'd rather, you know, puts the city in a position to look at a more robust building in an area that um, and again, we're going to want to be sensitive to that property owner to the south, but it's a lot easier to have a good relationship with one property owner than 60, you know, when you're next to a full-fledged neighborhood.

So,

your concern was addressed in our conversations, Sherry. We there were a number of properties we were looking at that were more centrally located um that you know the council thought would be make more sense. Um but really what came what it the primary situation was the cost. Even with the cost of bringing water and sewer down to the property, it's still the least expensive property. Um And then also like Brent said, the public services director that was his preferred site. Um, and so all in all, it's our thought was that it was the best value for the dollar for the taxpayer because it's the least expensive property, requires the least amount of grading and things like that. It's a very flat property, so there will be very little site development that will have to be done relative to some other properties. It has enough space and even with the cost of bringing down water and sewer, the cost is still the lowest of the properties that we were looking at. And we're not going to be taking out high value taxable property and we're not going to be disrupting large areas of residential property. Neighbors don't tend to like being next to a public services it. So that was Brent summed it up.

Thank you. Any other Is this the project that would remove the white building at the end of the street, Main Street here or Broadway? And I would say they're arms length connected. Mhm. Um I would say you can't tear down the building at the end of Broadway without a new facility,

but they're not connected by if one happens, the other is going to happen right after that. The council still has to make choices related to that. Um the the planning commission actually is going to do some work on that next summer. We the council wants to kind of reinvent that space understanding that there's going to be kind of a new um entrance into uh downtown or historic downtown Carver from the Miriam Junction uh trail bridge. Um, and right now it's not probably how most of us would want to be represented with that kind of uh 50s era uh concrete block building. Um, but the council I think did a really nice job of summing that up along with Aaron Smith of it somehow kind of got manufactured into the city wants to build a splash pad and so we're kind of stepping back from that. There could be a water feature, but the essence of it is we want it to be a gathering space and kind of a uh I would say like a lobby into the historic downtown of like shops and ice cream and getting a drink or getting a sandwich and you know a place for people to go to the bathroom along the trail. The council mentioned they'd want um uh inside bathrooms etc. And so, uh, next summer, our Eron will be kind of working with the planning commission to kind of kind of reinvent that and then roll that out. But when that happens, um, we're not looking at it as a this than that because they're two pretty significant projects. But again, uh if the council and the community say we're not going to build public services for another 10 years, then the park becomes kind of irrelevant there. And because we, you know, when we're space deficient, you can't afford to take even

though it's relatively small, you can't afford to take that away from them. Uh even though we might try, but uh Paul Schultz would find me somewhere and stick me somewhere I don't want to be. So, um Right. There's no windows there. So, yeah, good question. Good question. Excited for that that project. So, that's why I asked, but all of this seems uh to comply with the city's comprehensive plan. And I appreciate all the I would say considerations of taxpayer, you know, contribution and this being a non uh a tax exempt property and its location. So, you're

good. Any other comments? Okay. Um, so we do need to make a motion um to the so that I can report to the city council that the property acquisition complies with our comprehensive plan. So, can I get a motion for that, please? Motion. Second. Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. Carries. All right. Uh, on to our communications. Does anybody have anything they want to share?

I have one. Save the date. Um, October 21st, it's a Tuesday. It's the Tuesday after our October meeting. We are going to have uh Deb Barber, who is our Met Council rep, and McKenzie Young Walters, who is our Met Council staff person, out to do a little kickoff to the starting to plan for the 2050 comprehensive plan. So they'll give some updates about uh new requirements like what we'll need to change from our current plan to the future. Talk about population I suspect some growth that we're seeing. So I'll send an email but just an FYI that we're planning for a night for the city council and planning commission to come together to start thinking about the comp plan with Met Council in the room with us. So I'll send an email but just save the date for October 21st. That

that's an evening correct? Write that down. Anybody else? Do you know when the firehouse opened? I knew you were going to ask me that. October 7th. Thank you. I left my phone favorite day. I left the my phone in the car so I couldn't text their best life at that time. My oldest, his birthday is October 6th and it's always right around his birthday. Convinced that the city of Carver celebrates his birthday every year. And he's right. Yes. Um October 7th. I might be slinging some hot dogs behind the table. All right, come on over and I'll be there. I knew you were gonna ask that question. Was not prepared. Thank you.

You're welcome. You guys have any share? No. I'm on the Carver Elementary PTO board and we have our fundraiser kicking off Monday. Um, and I think before I joined the PTO, I didn't realize all the PTO does. We pay for all the sub subscriptions at the school. a lot of the support you see in the classrooms, books, we just paid for all the library to get updated books, that sort of thing. Um, as well as the fun stuff we do, but I think I didn't realize how much support the teachers need outside of district funding. So, if you know somebody that goes to Carver, you should look to donate to their fundraiser. And if you don't, I have two kids that you can donate to and they would live for it. So, that's my

Thank you, Brent. Anything you want to share? We don't have you here very often, so we got to ask the question.

Um, a resident budget guide is available on the website. So, uh, the council just adopted a preliminary levy. Uh, so if you want to do a deep dive, there's all of our capital plans are on that. Uh, presentations from Lynn Shudy, the finance director, um, etc. Uh, again, I I mentioned I think that some folks the Senate, uh, investment committee was out last night. We're trying to get uh an additional three million to finish the levy project. We're going to start regardless because we can do it in phases. So, we're hoping to have shovels in the ground by fall of 26. Um Congressman Emmer along with Senators Clolobashar and Smith also have us in um various bills at the federal level to try to get an additional four million. So, we have Mayor Johnson and the council have really been kicking into high gear to try to get this uh funded. Um, am I missing anything, Kayla, that you can think of?

No, the budget was the big one. Budget. Great Kayla. All right. Have anything. All right. Can I get a motion to adjurnn, please? I I I do have one. Oh, yes, please. Sorry. That's right. We have a senior discussion group that meets at the uh Jaza Community Center, the lodge, and on the 25th, we're going to have Mayor Courtney come and speak to us at 10:00 in the morning. And you don't have to be a senior. We don't check we don't check your age. And on the ninth, we have

what what's her wisdom she's going to share with the group? What's the topic? gonna just talk about what's happening in the city. Okay. Crunch traps. We we have been trying to get so the four communities in the school district. We've had Chaza come in, both the mayor and the uh city manager. I got the city manager for Chan Hassan coming on October 9th. I'm trying to I'm going to try to get same from Victoria. I've been up there before. The first.

All right, that sounds fun. I might be working though. That's what us non senior people do. All right. With that, can I get a motion to adjourn the meeting, please? Second. Thank you. All in favor? I I oppose. Mean is closed.