Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Good evening everybody. Got a full crowd except for our planner. Um, as always, we work from an agenda based on information that I've gotten about a week or so before the meeting and uh, hence the agenda that we have tonight. Our first order of business is approval of the 22326 meeting minutes. Um, I have a couple of minor changes still. Um, the fourth category on there, this the correction of the spelling annual. Um, I guess we should agree on the votes that we had, Dave, because I saw your email was you wanted 50 all the way across meeting, but Glenn was actually here at the beginning of the meeting for the first couple votes.

Okay. uh for the approval of the minutes and the annual report. So, as it stands right now, it looks good. And I haven't changed the last vote to 50 to to for us to adjurnn because Glenn wasn't here at that time. Um and then under the Carol County Department of Planning update, resigned resignation by Javier is the 20 26, not 2025. He left 20 January 31, 2026. Um, and to my understanding, there is not anybody's been hired yet or appointed. Well,

what do you know different, Drew?

Well, it's not Oh, January. Duh. I'm thinking December. I'm going to say, okay, that's Yeah, that's good. Brenda was going to come, but I felt like from the comments that I got from you, Drew, and Dave, um I think all of you that were at the meeting on the 4th of of February, there was no no public comment about New Windsor. Uh so I forwarded with the agenda the updates, if you will, to the plan that were made by the planning commissioner, uh by the planning committee. What are they? planning members, Carol County planning staff. That's the word I want. And there was nothing that related to New Windsor, but they do want a vote from us for an acceptance of the plan from the New Windsor portion. And since you were there, you hadn't heard anything from public comment. We had already agreed with the plan. Um, I'd like to get a motion for us to vote on acceptance of the New Windsor portion of the Carol County annual report. A motion for that

from Kevin. Second. Second by Dave Grayson. All those in favor signify by I. I opposed. I have it. 70. Yes. And that was the uh water resource element. My mistake. Not the annual plan. The water resource element. Uh annual plan we already did uh last meeting. My mistake. So, let's do this again because I said it wrong. Okay. So, the motion is the acceptance of the new Windsor portion of the 24 water resource element plan.

I make the motion from Kevin, accepted by D, second by Dave. All those in favor signify by I. I say no. Okay. Once again, the eyes have it 70, but that's the one that counts, the water resource element. All right. Council updates from Councilman Dave. The minutes. Yep. I thought we did. Did we? No, you didn't. You were going through them. Make a couple changes. Ah, there we go. God, I am so out of practice. It's been a month. Okay, but there are other comments on the minutes. Okay. Can I get a motion to accept the minutes? Motion we accept the minutes with the noted corrections.

Okay. I second that motion. Motion by Drew, second by Kevin. All those in favor signify by I. I. I. Opposed. Okay. The eyes have it. 70. All right. Now we can go to Councilman Dave Hoffman's update.

Okay. A couple things. Um, we as as I've been reporting, we've been working on the budget. It's now about 98% complete. Um, looks like we have a balanced budget. No tax increases. That's the 10th year in a row with no tax increases to balance our budget. It's um just about $3.4 million. Um probably the the biggest budget we've ever had. Um and so we'll be um finishing that up in the next probably next month as we have to have the tax rate information into the the county I think by early May. Uh and at the April work session coming up uh GMBB our engineer we're going to be they're going to be doing a proposal going through the proposal for planning design and um bidding services for our wastewater treatment uh ENR upgrade. So, the plant we're looking to upgrade it to the enhanced nutrient reduction um method and uh that would be an upgrade and they've been putting together all the the um everything we need to do to to make that happen um utilizing grants and things from the state. So, we have to be making a decision whether we're going to push forward with that or not soon.

That has nothing to do with capacity. That's just No, it's absolutely has everything to do with capacity. Um it will allow us to increase our capacity.

However, um the more capacity you request, the less the state will provide you grant funding. So, you have to find that balance. Um and just because we ask for additional capacity does not mean the state will give us the capacity. um they have something that they consider um the proper growth and it may not be what what we want. We currently our capacity is 115,000. We were hoping to get 165,000 um gallons. Um, and that's what we were going to go to the state with and see if that would be considered reasonable growth through them and that'll give us additional capacities. Um, don't know. Um, some of the preliminary things I looked at um may not they may not come back in with 165. They may be looking at something like 125. That gives us very little additional capacity. maybe 40 units. That's that's and it it's still probably going to come with a price tag uh to the to the residents of about $6 million after the state grants and funding. Um now you can do nothing, right? We can do nothing. And um the problem with that is as the Maryland Department of Environment changes their rules and continues to push for cleanup of the bay, they could direct us to do it and then we'll be like we were before with absolutely no money coming from the the uh the state to help us

unfunded mandate.

Yes, exactly. So, um, we have to, you know, play the game, figure out what's the best, where the sweet spot is, what we can do, and and, um, and go from there. We, you know, we know it's going to come. They're not going to continue with the the the um the regulations as they are today. They're always getting harder and um things have to be cleaner. So, we've been working on this for quite a while, but we're getting to the point now where we have to make a decision soon. Um, let's see. Pedestrian safety improvements. Uh, up at Town View Circle, we've had a pretty big discussion on that at the meeting. There was a um a young child that got hit by a car um up there going to the school bus. And um the the school bus stop is at the bottom of the hill by 31. You know, they have that split entry and the the school the the stop is down there. She did not get hit down there. She got hit up at the top where the the roads all come together up there and there is one stop sign but it's it's a congested tight

area up there and um she got hit by a car and she she seems to be okay. Everything seems to be okay with her. Um, however, we're trying to figure out we need to put another stop sign up there, maybe some additional road markings for crosswalks and things like that to make that area um, safer. I did take a drive through that the through the area the other day and and um, it's the whole community is is tight. You know, there's a lot of houses. The the roads are they seem narrow, although there's not a lot of cars parked on the side. I think people have to park in their driveways and they have designated parking areas in certain areas along the road. There was not a lot of cars. No, it was during the day when I did that. There was not a lot of cars around, but it's just it's it just feels compact up there. And that one intersection right at the top where one lane going down, one lane coming up the straight, and then the other road comes into it all right there. It's it's a it's a tight area. And you know, kids and and you know, they're not always paying attention. And I I think it was maybe in the morning. I think it was in the morning when parents are dropping kids off and kids are, you know, and so there was just a lot of activity there. So, we're seeing what we can do to to help. Um we think we're going to try to get some um pedestrian markings on all our intersections around where where there's the ramps and and try to get the the crosswalks in. And it it looks like we are able to use some of our highway user fees to do that. Not not just pave the road, but we we're allowed to put markings. So, I think we're going to look into maybe doing that around town as well.

I followed that bus one day not too long ago, within the last week or so, and at that stop, 27 kids got off. 27. Yeah, there's a there's a lot of there's a lot of kids up there. 27 kids at a stop. Wow. 27. go up. That That's awesome. And all the kids from up there. There's a lot of kids there. That's That's a neighborhood. That's sad. I know. I'm sure you have thought that the um everything up there now has been turned over to the town. I mean, there's no right responsibility for any of that. Okay.

Yeah. Um, and last thing is on April 9th from 5 to 7:00 p.m. at the fireh hall, uh, the Maryland Department of Transportation is presenting the design for the sidewalk improvement project. So, the streetscape that we've been talking about forever. Um, they're going to have um, a setup over at the fire hall from 5:00 to 7:00. and you can go, you know, see what's going on with that. Look at your property, see what they're proposing. And the the folks that are um impacted along um High and and Main Street, they've received letters recently because the state's coming, you know, need some rightway information and are doing all that kind of stuff. So, you've been should have received letters and things like that. Uh but this is uh an open meeting that anybody can go to to see, you know, what's going on with this whole project. Check out my notice in the mail today.

We got a flyer in the mail today. I think I got a flyer today about it. You got it today? Yeah. Okay, good. Very excited. I was like, "Oh, this is cool." I meant to bring it. So, they coming to us to tell us or are they coming to tell us about our specific property? Well, they're going to go through the whole the whole plan, right? But you'll be able to on the 9th it'll be the whole plan. But the letter they talk about coming out and sending appointment.

They have to do um each homeowner has rightaway issue possibly and they're sending out um evaluators to check that out and they come up with a fair market value and they're going to say, "Hey, we need to be on your your property. Here's we're going to offer you $500 or whatever." I don't know. I don't know what they're going to do. I don't know what kind of offer they they make, but they need to have rightaways to make this project happen and and uh because they're going to be stepping on your property and they have to go through all the right the right things to do that. So, it's not a formal presentation from what I read. It's going to be like they're going to have displays. No, I don't think they can answer any questions or No, I don't

I think it's just Yeah, I think they'll I think I think questions will be asked and be able to be answered and probably, you know,

there should be people there that have some insight. you know, we've we've done all the the hard negotiations about, you know, getting the the uh walls back in and and all those kind of things and and there may be some still design issues that change as they, you know, go through everything, but um we're we're pretty far along in the in the process now. Um and once they go through a couple more hurdles, I think that, you know, they they have the the whole bid schedule and everything that we'll be going through. So we're we're closer than we've ever been. Closer than we ever been. So I'll I'll say that. So on the 9th of April,

5 5 to 7 at the fire hall. Okay. We want that in a minute. Good. Cool.

That's it. on to the comprehensive plan. I will be shocked if we don't finish this round tonight. All righty. That's where we left off. I'll make it a little larger, too.

You wanted that larger. Is that what I heard? Hey, one of these days we're going to get a TV back there, too, so we don't have to keep moving. Yeah, we're going to get it in the budget one of these days.

All right. So this is section 12 and we're off into the financial implications. Let's see what is 12. I was looking at the email that Javier sent saying that he was leaving. He also said that he had updated maps for us. Did anybody say anything to you, Dave, that they had them for us? I thought they provided us.

No, no, that was large. Remember the Yeah. Well, we had them, but he he had uh

Yeah, there was something Yeah, there was something that was missing from all of them. Oh, I know. It had to do with the I don't know if it's Snater. We wanted that included in the in the gross area boundary. There was something was he was going to do all new set and I have in the email where he was saying he was resigning and that day he was going to leave a copy here and that was so I'll ask him because I'm come over see him leave him. So, I'm looking to see what section this is on here. Busy. Look away from the screen.

Yeah, community involvement. There we are. All righty. Community involvement. We're down to the fiscal implications. I think we've chatted about this before about surveying the community periodically. Do we want to have that in there as a recommendation? I don't. Yeah. I don't particularly think surveys are worth the effort to do very little participation that way

right with survey. So I think I don't know what the best way is but I don't think the survey is a good way. That's why I ask I mean this is what we had in there from the last time and so I want to make sure. All right.

A lot of surveys get conducted on social media from what I hear.

But there's also an expectation when you've done a survey and say I would like to have um you know a red light or a stop sign someplace. then there's an expectation that comes from a a suggestion of something to talk about. You get two or three people say all of a sudden there's an a view and I'm not sure that's what our role is. If we I mean this is an opportunity not necessarily survey but for people to come and participate in something that they might like to see that we consider in our plan. So all right so number two becomes number one continue to provide updates on projects events and the implementation continue because we do have

y I'm going to say andor website we still call a newsletter is it the by monthly yeah okay citizen committees implement appropriate strategies from the plan as well as other community projects up in that okay prior paragraph just where very depending is underlined it should be uh not really that's just one of those things that happens in word it doesn't like the word choice it's not yeah it's not proper

oh I see fiscal impacts would vary very depend are depend how are dependent are dependent and then depend I'm with you and then dependent upon I believe there we go would vary I guess depending upon the method usage or survey can be

okay good if I got rid of all the blue underlines that are in here I'm just coming mute to them Do we want to have a recommendation to form citizen committees? I I think uh I would be okay with that. We we are thinking about for for other things together one for water and sewer. Okay. So I think if things came out of here

my opinion yeah that these are recommendations and we're not necessarily the body that would implement those that would be more the council or the subcommittees of the council. Yes, we definitely want number four to be number Can we make that number one?

That'd be our top recommendation. Well, we actually could because I know the last time we did this, I think we we picked some times to stay longer periods and just hash it out and didn't talk about anything else but the plan. Yeah. And that that is one way we could have a regular monthly meeting and then have a you know a supplemental meeting to just do this and work session. Yeah. Like a work session. Work sessions. Yeah. I mean also each each person has a chapter that they go through and they do it and they come in with their recommendations. Um there there are there are other things we could do. This process has pretty much taken my term on the council on on the commission.

It took us I want to say two to three years to let when we did this back in Yeah. It started in six or five. Well, I came on at five and it started right after that and we finished it sometime and it was called the 2007 plan even though finalized into eight and then amended it almost immediately. Um, which is part of the problem because of the timing of when it comes in because that was based off 2000 data. We're in 2026 and we're working off 2020 data. Where do we get to these tables? Because these numbers are

way off. Um but yes and uh we we and actually that might be a good idea. I believe tonight we'll get through this.

So I'll talk about what I see as our next step. But I think maybe next meeting or the following meet we could just have as an agenda item talk about suggestions on because it's somewhat um impaled in our brain a little fresh this process. Okay. Interjurisdictional coordination and communication. This essentially we kept this is the the same as

what we had the last time. Anybody have anything in their notes of comments changes? See the current condition here that's okay as a Yeah. County planning.

Yeah. Well, and we call it bad under the town county agreement or just under current conditions in in the big picture there is some communication between the county and the different jurisdictions. Um, you know, an example is, you know, we were asked to be involved up there with the commissioners a couple times in this past year. Uh Gary will talk about a lot of things that that he he has and in specific when I've talked to him about the town county agreement uh and us not having the same involvement from the planners. His his caution was be careful what you ask for because they may then maybe put something additional in for us and take something away from what he gets. Um I I'm not sure how to balance that with who the bigger picture is, but us and Union Bridge to the best of my knowledge are the only county only municipalities in Carol County that do not have a planner on their staff.

So, and I I keep wanting to ask Perry want to see him how they do it. My guess is he does it, but we but I haven't asked that question. But that that is something that potentially might need to be addressed. I don't know. You know, this process we've gone through. If we had a professional planner and we made the conscious decision at the beginning of this, we we discussed it in in this group and I talked about it with uh Neil that if we went and spent the money on this and had a professional planner, there certainly would be other things that would be raised and other that maybe could make this go larger. Um whereas the general theme seems to be We like the small town feel. We want to stay with that. There's not a uh not an impetus somewhere to go and change from that. So, we made the conscious effort to just kind of dust off what this thing looked like before.

These other towns, they have fulltime for the most part. Yes. Full time. I sat with a guy down at the last MML meeting. He's the county planner. I'm sorry, the planner for Mount Erie. Yeah, a large jurisdiction, but he was telling me how because he did a little survey when he came in. He's the one that told me that we're the only ones. Um, and then he he's mentioning the names of some of the other places. And I'm I feel like we're so far along in the process. I don't want to go and ask for another set of eyes on this. Let's get this one done and let's get that input for the next time this has to be done. I would agree with that. Bring them in for the next plan. We're too far down the road.

Y right. And it may be that'll be something we'll, you know, poor Dave will get to take to the town council for for additional funding to help with that. Um, we we I think you were on here when we had Emily Ann sitting here. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Cuz she was the second scorekeeper that we had on this. Um, originally I think even Price had said he could help and then he backed off alto together. Then somebody from the state was with us for a while and uh and then there was a uh the head of the Maryland Department of Planning came here to the meeting and essentially shut that down and says no, you know, we we we can't do that. Um and then we had uh kicked it around and we put a little request out and we got Emily Ann and we had her and then this made her sick. She left and now you're stuck with me being a scorekeeper. How's Union Bridge handle it?

I don't know. I haven't I'm sorry. I mentioned Perry's the mayor and I and I see him. I I don't know any of the other people over there, but you know, they have no need for anything. There hasn't been any activity in Union Bridge or in in Union Bridge for 25 years. They've been stagnant for Well, that new development supposed to be going in, I've heard. Yeah. So they say. No, no, no. Yeah. No, I think it's Yeah. or Well, I don't know. You're back to the six gas stations in town. I don't know. I I don't know those name.

All right. The town county agreement. Um, looking through this for tonight, I highlighted in green as we come up things that I thought maybe if nothing else we discuss we want in there cuz I'm not sure you're you were hinting at this. I I don't feel like we get it's not coordinated planning from

No, we don't. And I I fully expect when this is over and they they will get this to review. I'm sure we're going to hear and get comments back. And um I've talked I talked to Brendan. I talked to somebody else up at Carol County and said thank you. I I I'll say it in advance. Thanks for your comments, but we're we're not going to rework this. If you've got some you had people here, we've had five different people at least five. I think I'm missing somebody during this process and they're supposed to be helping shepherd us and pointing out are there we don't really get that but we do have eight versions of the maps there is coordinated planning I do think with review of uh subdivision site plans and when we have something we'll usually have comments from Carol County either day before we'll presentation here or afterwards. So there there is interaction there. But when it comes to the right the master the comprehensive plan I I don't I don't think so and I feel like I could pull those out. Just take those out. Just take those words out. You probably know word better than I do. maybe Rebecca. But you see how I had an

extra space in there and the blue lines.

So that's what I'm used to on those. So I'm an Excel person. I'm not really a word guy. Yeah, there are a couple of small things that were in here that I see are not here. So, uh, Emily and did take them out. We had talked about this before. Does anybody else have any other comments in in in here? Okay. Joint comprehensive plan. Let's see. Yeah, we did take out some wording in here to I mean, yeah, there is some involves participation by the county and town planning staff. I had a comment about the non-existent town planning staff, but we didn't leave and plan that in.

It looks like it was removed what we removed. Yeah, because the last sentence does talk about how that looks good. Yeah. So, county provides staff assistance. Okay. Is this a temporary staffing at the county level or the the planners if they have a shortage of planners like a revolving door?

I it's a revolving door. My understanding is from each of the one all of the ones that have been here have left for a better position somewhere else.

Yeah. And my understand God, who is it? the previous head of Carol County Planning. I remember talking with her at something was going up in uh in Westminster and she was telling me that she wishes she had a larger budget to be able to the pay more to be able to compete with some of the other jurisdictions. but also her more experienced she puts with the larger municipalities that have more challenges more going on in their plans. Yeah.

Yeah. Like north part of the county, you know, Manchester, um, Mount Ary, Westminster. I I kind of see that from a management perspective. Um, so we get the newer greener and um, you know, if you get some experience, you know, certainly can't stand in a way. Um, but it's not a whole lot of continuity for us. We got spoiled. So, we had Barb with us for four, five, seven years. Uh, then we had uh, Bobby for I'm going to say another five, seven years, something like that. But these last five, six years, we've just nobody's been more than a year.

I don't think we've had made two years with any of them.

Okay. Mutual referral of development proposals and other planning activities. Okay. So in the town and county agreement, it does specify they provide planning personnel. This is something that I've never seen. Gary does see and I I'm not sure that that doesn't come to the council, does it? Dave, I I mean talking about it, I'm sure it comes up, but you don't actually see it and vote on it, right? I don't think we vote on it, but I think we have I think I have seen it in the past.

Can we do they do the county does lots of things for Gary. I'm not the town of county agreement is a good thing. I don't know that it says anything about planning. You know that we're going to give you somebody. I I don't know. That's obviously we know that. How about if I Which way would I I think we should get a chance to see it. Me ask Gary.

Yeah, I think he Okay. And then I'll CC you on it. Okay. And then I have no idea if it's a one-page document, if it's, you know, 20 pages. My guess is it's not real detailed, but and we'll talk. But the the short of this is that we got much more assistance when we did this 20 years ago. And they acknowledged that when we were up there in October because I think it was Brenda said stepped up to the commissioners and said on our behalf, you know, just to full disclosure that we have not been a provided a planner for them to do this and you they've essentially been on their own

and if I'm not mistaken, yeah, the commissioner, you knew made a comment that well we really should look at this and and you and do something for them or whatever that means. Oh, at least nice to have a forum to be able to They mentioned it. Yes. Like to see him do it. But yeah, put here.

Yeah. Go ahead. See what what's their They're probably working on their budget, right? They can Yeah. Yeah. I don't think Is that a word? Sewage. Isn't it just sewage? You should have seen that enough times, Dave. Oh, I'm sorry. Sewer. It's not sewage. It's not under. So,

good point. Okay, there we go. That is the answer. Just see. Okay. See? Okay. There's something we had in here. We that taken away. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Council of governments. I thought we took that first sentence out. Wow. Tells you how old this is. Mark source file with Michelle and Neil and get information on how that how that works. So you think we took that first sentence out. Okay. Yeah. I I show it was crossed out in my original book. Yeah. I had in here, is it still true? And then I I guess I highlighted that. I think. And because it starts out in the past, we don't really need to

put that in there. How about this? Yep. Well, because it's not done anymore, so why even mention it? Well, I'm not so sure they don't about the county commissioners periodically meet with mayors from all the towns. But then has it been replaced by the council of governments? That's what that's our next sentence. Says it's been replaced. That's Oh, why? I didn't think we needed it at all. I don't know what that is.

Never heard. I've never heard. Okay,

get rid of that shading. That sentence, these meetings have been replaced by council or governments. I'll check with Kevin because if there is a council government and that's replacing meeting with the mayors. Maybe there's not a council of governments and he has periodic meetings with the county commissioners,

which I think he he does. Okay. And if if either way this sentence will come out or it will replace the first sentence. Yeah. But included our representative. Well from all eight municipalities, you know. Yeah. I think gosh I don't know what it's called.

I'll ask him what it's called because I know there's a meeting like this that he goes to sometime. I don't know how often. All right, this will this will be me. What the heck? Where did it go? Oh, all right. policy regarding annexation. That's true.

I have that the town county it wasn't an agreement. It was a policy statement. I have that was we're talking about changing that wording. That's what we have in the first sentence. Correct. The county town county agreement contains a policy statement. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, there I didn't I didn't read continue reading it. Okay.

Okay. There's some map here. So that is number six. Okay. Apologize for jumping off of there. Forgot I'm not others can see this too. I'm going to jump back to this. I apologize. Yes, land uses on number one. Okay. Anybody else have anything in the section? Okay. MML.

Yeah, we did work on this section because this the previous one talked about Maryland Association Accountings Mako, but we changed it to move over to talk about the Maryland Municipal League. So that first first sentence, the Maryland League members are elected 23 counties that 2 counties in Baltimore City is make information league is 157 municipalities. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm looking at the Okay. So that wasn't okay. So it is makeo that are the but we don't want in there. Although I think is still somewhere. I don't hear that very often. Right. We participate. No, you're more we're definitely MML. How about the Maryland Municipal League members are representatives of the 147 or 157? Are they representatives or were they elected? Oh, they are the elected. Okay. I mean, that's who we are of Maryland's just said 23 for 157.

Are the 157 elected governing officials of Maryland's 23? No. No. It's not 157 elected officials. It's 157. Okay. Got it. Okay. I'm with you. ML is made up of 157 members. No, I'm with you. Municipalities. You want to use the word municipalities or jurisdictions or would municipalities. Municipalities. Okay. Is that capital?

It will be can be. Is it still the state's 24 subdivisions? Oh, okay. Oh, I don't know where you are with that last paragraph.

I go fast. Sorry. I don't know. I don't know what that states 24. I would say why don't we just represent the viewpoint of the state before the governor of the various state municipalities.

Yeah. Of the state's municipalities. Yeah. Just change 24 subdivisions to municipalities. I think that's pretty pretty accurate.

An important voice for county government in Maryland. The last paragraph, first sentence,

municipal But the difference is instead of somebody paid from the outside representing the group, these are members. version, you know, like I I worked in education and you have we we would have somebody from our American school for the blind. We would go down there representing the blind institutions in the state. So they're not separately paid as a lobbyist would be, but issues also.

Yep. Yeah.

Well, there they make it bright red, so that will come out. But yes, you're all going to get a copy of this to look at. But yes, good. I have this next sectioned out most of it. I have Yeah. At present, no public transportation is offered or planned.

And then I have that xed out as well though. I guess there were four paragraphs. I have three scratched out and only keeping the last paragraph, but she kept in the first paragraph and the fourth paragraph. So that's what's sitting there right now. I open it to the floor for what others remember recall. Well, this is New Wor's plan, right? And we're talking about Carol County at best. I'm not sure why it's there. Yep.

Okay. Scratch it all. Nope. No relevance. Oh, yeah. Okay. Before we do that though. Oh, come on. That last sentence. I see. I'd see that we added that into this. Is there any of this we should keep or do we just say or just take it all out? Why do we do have public? Now that's private. Cats is private, isn't it? Yeah. All right. Doesn't hurt to leave it in twice.

Okay. Analysis of community needs. That paragraph looks good. Well, you see in here the annual review of the town county agreement. So, somebody's doing that. If that's true, it's by a liaison planner.

All point to minimal coordination. I mean, that's the crux of the problem, right? We have no coordination. We have no Yeah, if we did and we had a good one, we wouldn't be talking like this. We would be be working together and doing this. And good isn't necessarily a reflection on the individual is a reflection on the fact that there's not continuity. Yeah. Do we want to point that out? I say, do we want to put a blurb in there saying that? Well, under recommended actions, why not?

Yeah. county needs to hire fully pay more. Well, I mean, I think we need to make the statement that New Windsor has been adversely affected by the lack of the lack of a continuous county li. Yeah,

because we have We aren't the smallest, right?

So the recommended action That's kind of like an explanation and I can clean that. But the recommended action would be work with Carol County Planning Department for consistent staff leaison. All right. could use the word regular.

I'm sorry. Oh, is that a consistent irregular I know what you're driving that consistently, you know, maybe, you know, I don't know what else they could do. I mean, that's a tough thing trying to balance this, you know, because they they more we we are a smaller jurisdiction. part of the solution I think probably falls on a town to to have a part-time planner. I don't know whether

well I think you can say that but I think if the town county agreement states that Carol County is going to provide us with the Carol County planning they need to step up to the plate

whether they're their employees leave or whatever they're responsible to do that and hiring that person and they want to change the town county agreement to say we're no longer going to do that. Then New Windsor is going to have to take a look and say, "Well, since the county is not going to provide us somebody, maybe we need to fund a another employee to act with that. It's going to have fiscal implications for the time of winter because employees then require benefits and health insurance and retirement. And you start adding all that on there, you're looking at a a possible increase to fund that position.

So instead of So that instead of no fiscal impact, it could very well be a substantial Yeah. If New Windsor had fun,

boy, what is wrong with this? We would recommend a jointly funded position. Yeah.

Substantial Mark, I don't I don't think we are looking for Carol County to increase their planning support. We are looking for them to support us further agreement. We're not asking for an increased support to do what they say.

Yeah. by the consistent consistent support per the agreement I would think. Yeah. And I think it's the lack of staff by the by the county. Oh yeah. It's a revolving door. Plus each of these planners or these liaison. It's not just like Javier or whoever we have. They're not just covering New Windsor. He said they do Tony Town, they do other places. So, you're expecting these guys to go to meetings three nights a week or whatever it is.

How long has our been up there with a lame duck? I just soon as you said that I just noticed that

a bad wing. Yeah.

Yeah. I'd give the 30 bucks to correct it. Yeah, sure. If that's the issue that it's 30 bucks. I start typing. I can't do much thinking. So, yeah. Absent Carol counter planes. Of course, we didn't. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I mean, we looked at the other one. You can't see the other side, but it's different because those wings are down and the ones over there are up. It's kind of weird. DC different bird. They come here and get training

and then they leave. Is that work? Yeah. True. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I think we're on TV tonight. I haven't seen the cameras.

Inconsistent.

What was that? That's just the last lesson.

Would be want to want to get Gary to put that as a placeholder in the budget. Drew made that motion. inconsistent

instead of sheriff. our planner with Union Bridge.

Well, technically these plans supposed to be done every 10 years. And one of the holdups that you know the 2020 census because it kept asking for that data, asking for that data through multiple people that really didn't become available till 2024. Drips and draps. You found some, Drew. I found some. So I and CO certainly delayed that. But you know, we're not going to start. We probably would start this in 30 31 for the next 10-year plan. That's what I'm thinking as you start rolling through there because my understanding is the data starts to become available at the end of uh um the censuses take starts get taken last couple months of whatever you know 29 and gets wrapped up and by the beginning of 31 the data starts to become available. That would be normal my understanding. um or that was the expectation for this pastime and it really wasn't available at 24. So um it's not I guess really too many words. I don't really know if that would become a budgeting issue for us until we got to this next time we were doing this comprehensive plan unless there is a major change with potential growth here in the town or we got a couple significant things going on where if we had a planner that might be of some assistance. I don't know. I don't know. It's another mouth to feed. So, you were about to change the wording. Instead of absent, you wanted

about without consistent Carol County planning support consistent with the agreement, the town will be we will need to hire. just jump over.

No, I think this is the one group that you're right. There you go. I think that'll get some attention. Yeah. Yep. That's the purpose. That's the purpose of it. Yeah.

I think that one of the things that as I go through the review and and I'll talk about this in a couple minutes that we want to give a if you will, an executive summary. We give this whole thing to the council because they'll have to approve it. But there'll be some points and you know, I when I first kind of started to think about this, I've got like six or eight points. This would be one of those points we point out. You know, we're expanding the growth area boundary to include the uh Hoff property, but also reducing it for, you know, the Snater um this I don't remember what the other things were, but not a whole. That's an executive summary and my guess is this. I'm not sure who's other than Dave who goes into all the detail. You've been thoroughly. Um I'm not sure who really on the town council going to really go through this. So it kind of behooves us with any kind of body you're giving something to proof to kind of put out the highlights the the hawking points if you will or anything that's controversial. So, we're really really asking we do this final review when you get this to make a note so that we can talk about what goes in that final document for executive summary. All right, we beat that horse. Um, I did have a note to scratch this ensure the require annexation process is followed. Did anybody else have that? I had it scratched as well. That scares me when you have a furrowed brow. Councilman Hoffman.

Oh, you know what? Wonder why that's on here twice. Oh, okay. That that doesn't belong here. We already had that. It's no fiscal impact. This second item is sure the require annex is not followed. I had that as scratched and then we just added work with the See, Drew, I see you got a package here. Did you have it scratched or did you still have it in there? Yeah, I know.

161 is what was in the original one. This is It's just before chapter 14. It's the last page. Shows you what we've done. This is 161 in the last plan. We're at page 83 right now. I don't have it scratched. I don't have that. I don't have I have it on my original page 16161 scratch. I'm just questioning why would we why would we scratch ensure that required annexation process is other than if it was in the wrong spot or something? I that's what I thought it was in the wrong spot. Cuz we talked about annexation in another section.

I was just going to make a note here in red. It was item six in the in previous for this in this chapter policy regarding annexation. So, you know, it's we're in chapter 13, which is inter jurisdictional coordination, communication. So, you know, it's talking about us working with the county. And if we were annexing in Yeah, we would need

that's not in our growth area boundary right now, putting it into the growth area boundary, there is an impact to the county as we just, you know, saw with the hop So that I don't know that there's harm having it here because we do need to work with them with the county annexation process. There's probably somewhere else in there that, you know, we have it in in our process, you know, New Windsor's process for bringing something into the proper stuff. Okay. Still there. Housing and community design goals. Look at this. The the goals provoke new development design that conveys a sense of place.

Yeah. A sense of peace. encourage residential growth that need meets the needs of those in all income levels. We don't Yes, the state is but encourage residential growth. We don't we don't have we don't have any place to do that.

Okay. Okay. We say that and we we don't currently. Okay. But if we're increas increasing our growth area boundary we have in our plan. We're saying that possibly there could be growth in the future. And so there is a a goal that the residential growth needs something. So I have a little bit of problem with it all income levels because I personally would not promote growth. I wouldn't say hey in hot property you have to have everything from McMansions to subsidize housing.

It was called section 8 when I was yeah section 8 housing. But you're right various income levels as opposed to what's the proper word that we can use to You know, I think the second one we could talk about that that sense of a small town feel something like that. We could we could you work that in there somehow for number two. But the first one that whole thing with encourage I struggle with that word right

because we're not really encouraging, right? How about instead of incur explore or or leave open the possibility how about encourage any residential growth that's that that is that that is I go back to that consistent with the small town go

that's not part of the mandatory state requirements is it for comprehensive They kind of have I don't know with a certain income level. No, the state has certain requirements. Yeah. Elements of your comprehensive

that's still being discussed. Not that that's what Susan called me about. Susan Krebs called me about six months ago. Wanted to know what we had in our plan for lowincome housing, what we were doing about because that's that's something the governor has been pushing. But I don't think there's any legislation that was requiring that. So what if you said something a little nebulous like encourage residential growth that meets the needs of the community? It's fabulous.

It's It's great. It's It's nebulous. But when a developer is look going to look at that parcel of property, he has to he's going to build homes that meet the the needs of the community. Yeah. Right. But he knows he needs to do build as a builder to make it worth it as well. Yeah. And our town as a whole has housing that meets the needs of the community. There's a certain economic profile. We have all that. I'm trying to to stay nebulous. Right.

Because if if if through is right, if there's going to be stuff about all income level kind of stuff coming from the state, our nebulous statement, we could point to that. We say, "Yes, we're encouraging our our growth to meet all the needs, the needs of the community, whatever that may be." If if we talk about workforce housing, I think that's the the new term. Yes.

Public transportation we aren't in a position to address and we actually just struck something from here that that talks about that. Uh we aren't in a position to to have you we don't have the economies to scale. So we that that's I like that needs of the community because we we're not saying we're not looking at all income levels, but we aren't also saying that we are just needs of the community. Yeah, that's I think the person that normally sits here would be fine with that term. She would be proud of you.

Yeah, I think you're right. So, what are we going to do about this sense of place? More candles. Change place to community. I mean, more nebulous. Go back to what you said about small town. Yeah. A sense of small town feel. Do that. Should that be in quotes? Why not? That way we can create whatever definition we want.

The document that we're trying to maintain, you know, we're not we're not stopping growth or anything like that, but we wanted to be in harmony with this small town. That's what we did with Snater. We we that's what we did with Snater. We wanted them to,

you know, I don't know if we were successful or not, but that's what we That all may change when we have these other two large things coming in there that small town field. Well, that'll be difficult to keep that consistent once we start talking about those. Doubling in size takes potentially could take away, but that's down the road. Okay. Small town feeling quotes. The the ugly green thing that was Randolph was going to get numbers on that.

Yeah. I I I have trouble believing that it's changed from the last time, but I don't know where to go to get this number. We did not we have not annexed any property into the town. I don't believe during this period. So if you would assume that the numbers were correct back then pretty close to being still accurate today.

This was two planners ago that we were going to get this from 2006. So 20 years I don't believe we annexed in I remember discussions about the Hippert and then now Hoff. Those are the only two that I can recall. Okay, I'm just going to leave it there. Alrighty. So, based on what I got from Carol County, this is how the acreage looks and I did put it high low order acres within town limits and how it breaks down for residential zoning. And then the paragraph there is where I just highlighted. And if you recall when the hall talked with us, um they when they asked for us to include them in the growth area boundary, they had indicated that they want it, you know, then they once we were that was approved, then they would become come into the town council um and once the town council approved this that they likely would come in and want to get uh the zoning change from R3 3.5

so they could have a little more density which would then allow there to be I think we actually mentioned it in here somewhere what 3.5 will get you it'll get you something But this kind of puts some numbers with how the town looks right now. R3 is the major part of the town and that is three units per acre.

But Mark, does your table 18 does that include Does that include the property? Good question. No, it would not. See, it probably should, right? Because in our plan, we are including the property in the Yeah, good point. And it's currently zone. that's not currently zoned agriculture. You know what? I think I should probably put a note on this chart. Agriculture does not include

because we just made that decision. We're probably act probably the recommendation because that hasn't been approved by the council. They aren't going to do that. Understand? Yeah. But if the council approves it, we're not going to go back and update the chart. So I can make a note on here does not include is it was it 40 acres I I know I'm sure I'd seen one of the notes one of the meeting notes that the include 40 I'm hesitant to put it in here because it's not really in the boundary yet

but that's not the right way to be looking at it though right because we are looking at property I hear what you're saying, but when the county gave us this information, 1224, it wasn't in there yet. Agreed. That's why, okay, I'm inclined to say since we're getting the data from them that there be a note does not include Yeah, I guess that's also the snare. Right. Right. Yeah. Just subtract one from the other and check.

Well, the number that you have, the 254 is 40 acres would be 40 acres higher take away the higher than we had. Yes, it's high. So, it'll be 294 minus whatever the SN is. The old number was 208 and we're 254. Okay. Okay. So, the old number was 208. Yeah. Yep. Okay. 208.24. It is. Yeah. Well, so I don't know. Well, that was in 2006 that I wonder what Yeah. I wonder. Um Okay. Yeah. That gets the numbers are, you know,

I saw that. I don't know. And I I I've mentioned here several times that I'd like people to look at the numbers when they're in there because it's just that there is not consistency

and I tried my best to make these consistent from page to page. Uh that is a really good question. I'm not Yes. As you see, the R3 is only 20 acres higher. R1. Yeah, now I remember this. They're all different. How's the vote center changed? It shouldn't be changed, but it's 12 higher. I mean, they're all a little different.

Yes. Maybe your maybe your thought of just putting an asterisk there and say it was not is the way to go because you're right. We did we changed those numbers then and you don't know how accurate 2006 totals were. Yeah, we don't know if they were either. Number Yeah, the old 208's from 2006.

That was all due respect. Who's to say this is correct? Exactly there. And I I I we had we Gary had was working with the county

to go through this all the growth area boundary stuff because it was affecting our water. You know, we had to make sure our our water was correct based upon the growth area boundaries. So we could have all those numbers. So this there was an effort I was going to say last summer but probably the summer before now time that they went through did all that for us again. So there there's the part of me sitting here that feels like let's make this as like close to accurate as possible. But the accountant in me says I like pointing to something that says this is where I got it from. so that when somebody down the road questions us because I I can't really attest to any of those other numbers. But I can attest to that that does not include I remember asking that question.

That's fair. That's fair. There it says in parentheses inside town limit. Well, if it's inside the town limits, it's not a growth area boundary because it's already been annexed. Correct. Or is that a different word? What? Good point because I I that I I did that's that's my addition on here. Does this chart say this last time? Yeah, this last time the chart said town of New Yeah, this says town.

I added inside town limits because I asked them is this the full GAB or is this inside town limits? That's what I got from um If it's already been annexed and it's in the town limits not boundary, right?

You know, I think it should not have GAB on there. Just town of New Windsor. That's what the old one said. It just says town of New Wor. I mean I I know I got that from confusing. Yeah, that's what I got from Javier. I'm just going to do his town near Windsor. How's that? There you go. Okay, I'm going to leave that as acres within town limits, but I still think it's worth the note because that does Yeah, I think that's fair.

Oh, no. because it hasn't been annexed. It's the Snater is in No, that's in the GAB also. It's not in town like priority funding. That's the one I'm saying. No, they're different. Different. That's why priority funding is why they want to go frequently. Yes, exactly.

I don't know if I have any in the new maps for sure. Since it's not annexed, it's not in the town limits and we haven't that's down the road. So Hoff's not in this discussion anymore, but possibly Snater is

because they might have been in the town limit, not say we're asked to take them out of the GAB. Okay. I don't think from the map that they're in the town limit, but they're in the GAB. They were in the GAB, Snater, but they're coming out. So that that wouldn't affect this and for sure Hoff doesn't

there being asked to be brought into the C. So we're back to not having the note and and we'll build on Drew's confusion about the way the wording was before and just take that out. Thanks for being confused, Drew. That's for all of us. Yep. Yes. We thank you for your confusion. You clarify for us the benefits of being the So

what was the star? Um that's the total. Okay. I started doing that on some of these things because we reference and talk about them from tables and it's like, well, there it is and you can go see it. It'll bounce off. Then when you get into the county, the uh R 20,000 and R40, of course, that's not even on this chart. I don't know if that needs to be in here. Oh, never mind. It is because there's the next table. the business.

What was your question? We created that one. business off 75. Yeah, it's a neighborhood business. Neighborhood business. Yeah. Is that included in this? Yes. Or it's included in the map anyway. I don't know if that No, it's not in the town limit. It's in the DA

on map one. But we did create that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It says neighborhoods. That's the only red one on the whole thing is it says neighborhood business. Yep. Well, there's that red around the railroad tracks. Oh, yeah. It is a little red. Yeah. That David Co's house is red. Yeah. I see that. So, now we're on to table 19, residential zoning acreage. So, let's talk about this one. This is outside town limits.

Do we want to get rid of the GAB on this as well? Well, that gets interesting because town of New Windsor outside town limits it would have to be included that. Yeah. Same thing. So, does that mean then we should go do the previous one.

God, I don't like thinking. I stopped that a couple years ago. Whatever we decide, whoever gets this next time is going to think we were wrong. So, it doesn't matter. What did we do last time? Oh, okay. That's CPA outside. There you go. We can further confuse people. Comprehensive planning.

Well, that's what this page was for. CPA is community planning area. Apostrophe S is community community planning areas in case you didn't know what what an apostrophe meant. Wow. Okay. Okay.

That I think that's good. That will kind of click that. That way we don't have to get into the GAB issue up here. This town New Windsor down here. It's town New Windsor. the CPA kind but that is outside town limits. Okay. Now so Hoff's not in that yet because they're out in the county asking us to bring them in. So, I think it would be worthwhile though if I made a note here.

The the Hoff property is not included. But that's right. They won't be outside of town limit. They'll be No, they will still be outside of town limit. They're just not in They'll be in the gap, not

Yes. So, here I'll make the note. Okay. Oh yeah. And the other part about this is this thing from them. 1224 was in 25 is when we voted to remove SNER or make the recommendation to remove so it does not would get a little mushy if it was 1225 but it's 1224 were their numbers. So, this is just a little summary of what's in here. 91% single family homes were up from 82 up to 91. Multif family have dropped a little bit. I mean, these are their numbers. I I get uncomfortable with that. There was only one There's no longer a mobile home or trailer. Anybody know where that was? In 2000, we had one in in in the housing type for New Windsor.

We had a mobile. Huh. Yeah. So, this is saying 2000 2000 period to 2020 there were only 19 additional homes added. So 2020 we certainly would have started and had people from the reserve that would not have been in the 2000 and there were still homes being built in occupied in Snater Summit. They were starting Manor was still being built in 2021. Well, that's when I moved in. Well, wait a second. No,

no, no. You're right. Wait. The end. the end one maybe. No, they went up until like 2005 or six cuz the back very end of that last road the end of the road on the top that's when they put in all the $400,000 plus everything 300 plus they got mostly 200 plus and then they put in numbers last like half dozen because they add 39 I can can point 25. What am I thinking?

That's what we did last time. I got nothing. But but we know intuitively there's got to be more than 19 additional dwellings. But where the turn came down. So there was a Keeping with that 539, of course.

Are they considered multif family Dave up there? The bulk of those problem with that they're not they're not single family though. Semi detached. Semi detached. So they would or villa. Is that a term a housing bud? Villa then that you're more Well, that was the style and for a while they had town house the brochures advertising it as town houses. Then they changed that. Um so condominium is a legal term. I don't think it has to do with

it just has to do means you own everything inside the walls. If you don't own the walls that's outside or any of the other, right? I'm just trying to figure out I I saying for months, you know, these numbers when you compare so may maybe I just take out the 2000 so that we don't have that as an issue. Anybody would look at it would multif family do the same as the townhouse. I would consider multif family being town houses went down

precipitously. Yes. 90 to 48 47% decrease. It was the other way around. If it was 49, but it's not reserves that would have went up between I think what he means like multiple dwellings attached. I feel like the 428 to 491 would make sense. You know that that that seems to be like a reasonable number. Why the multif family would drop doesn't make sense. It's not that we've had something

because we're such a small municipality. This kind of thing can stand out. Maybe maybe we're better off just getting rid of the 2000 and get rid of the paper. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't know. I'm fine with that. We cannot explain. We did not lose, you know, we didn't lose 50 single family houses, multi family or multif family. We did not. But you don't you remember when that quarry went in and there was that big single I mean the mentors

multibeing homes maybe that we just did some aliens were living here we didn't know about there's some aliens we will come out. Oh wait a minute. Could that be because the school came in and cuz didn't when it was the brethren, weren't some of those units considered part of the multif family? Could that be it? Yeah, there were. So, could it be the loss of the brethren center going to

going to the school? I think our life would be simple if we just if I took that out. I just think it's a math error. Yeah. No, I'm taking it out to 20. Yeah. That question happened in 2000 days. I still that trailer. Where would that trailer been? I figured out where that was by the railway tracks. Yeah, it was up here. Uh, you know that little alley? I don't know whether it's called roof drive. It comes down.

No, it's on the other side. It It comes down past 316 Main Street. Is it the big white apartment? Manny Drive. Manny Drive. You turn in across from Jay Go's office and it goes up and then it makes a sharp turn and comes down to Main Street. Uh the property well it was Tooty Longwood. Oh there you go. Well the old the old school brick school. Yes the red brick the red brick school. It was behind there. I think an in-law or

Yeah. Yeah. It it was just like a single wide which you about the size of a camper. Now it was a small, but I thought that had I thought Well, isn't this special? Yeah, that's where that was. Okay, on this chart 539, you know, let me quickly 539.

All right, son of a gun. That mobile home comes back. Devil was in the detail. Here's your answer about single family. That's right. New. So, the the the purpose on this one was more to focus on owner occupied versus renter occupied. Um, oh, how can you?

So, that mobile home is there and since we're taking off the 2020 and and we want to There was that many vacant houses at the time of the census. Yes. Wow.

That's not That's consistent with the other periods. Yeah. I want to say at least once a month Kim will tell me about somebody's sold their house and moving. Yeah, I would do it once. being there. It's considered vacant because I would think typically you get sold in this is coming from the census. Yeah, that's kind of weird. Okay.

Funny. I don't know how many sections were done on Sn.

Okay. Okay. I want to say back with the the the 2020 numbers it was might be on here 34. Okay. And we got 43 here. Of course, when you got the multif family, you got apartments in there. So single family, same old 18. So we got 27 here between the two types of single family. Okay. 18 and 2000. The others the apartments renter occupied

multif family 10 units. 10 units. That probably would have been that probably the center probably would have been hall. in 2020. No. Oh, no. And it says we have 17 of them. Is that what that's saying? Yeah. Yeah. Right. But it's not. I mean, that's 17 dwellings. 10 plus, right? So 17 to 12 is 29. You you It should be 10. Oh, I see what it is.

Yeah. Right. They're renters. So if there is if it's a 17 unit place that's 10 plus if it's a family so you're talking where do we have any multifamily 10 unit plus in town Drew I've never I mean like four or five apartments in like down the end or up at the incubator

or across the 7-Eleven you have some apartments but but you don't have any 10 unit do we

two and then you have the corner one window that's empty.

Yeah, there's probably more than six. I was going to say seven, but I don't think there's any bottom of the hill. up 316 though the white the threetory there's maybe nine at the most there what's the lakeale

oh because they're attached that single family attached no talking about the school they include that to me educational facility separate. Yeah. So Mark, this all came from the census data. Yes. And for New Windsor under multif family 10 unit plus. This is the the data we got. You see that? No. I can neither confirm nor

I can deny but I definitely can't confirm further go on say you know per because several of these I got from Javier I say you know it's census data from Carol County planning department but isn't Yeah. Okay. That's the same That's the That's the same That's the same data. That's the same data that's in our original plan.

Some of it is. Yes. Yeah. I mean that 10 plus thing. Yeah. The numbers are the same. 17 12 29. And you know I I could combine the multif family 18 the number above nine same same fact. I could combine the multif family all of that and just have owner occupied being seven and renter occupied 33 43 53 67 anything I figured he just carried that over from the staff but there's a couple changes but not many. He's like he left it. He gives us change a number or two.

But even I struggle with data that makes no sense. I don't I don't know what to do with it. If you leave it in here and someone questions you just like I don't know what came out of the census the census

one of the who did I talk to about the census? I don't think it was Javier. Um might have been when we were up there in October. We're talking about the census date. I think it was the Brenda lady and he said and I said, you know, I hear because you know, Gary and I always have disagreements on what the what the number of citizens are, the residents. Well, he's got current data he gets from Carol County Planning Monthly. This is 2020 data. So, we're going to have a difference because state summit, you know, built out during that period. uh and then obviously the reserve was just about wrapped up by 2020. So, but still there were still people coming in from that. So, yeah, the numbers are going to be higher now. Um and that's the audience. But for this, I think we may have a total like he has, but then we're not going to have this breakdown. And that's, you know, at least it's consistent. So we could like we're having this discussion 2000 when I would challenge you. It says 2000. So it's the census 2000 is what you're looking at versus the 2020 census 2000. And I see the same thing you are. It's highly unusual that the 17 and 17 for the multifamilies are going to be the same both periods. Um renter occupy and same vacancy rate. So, must be the same units and just use that. I could combine all those together and just call it multif family two plus units. If that

can we just or just strike this all together just give like a link to online data. No, I'm not doing that. Well, if you'd like to go do that. A, I don't know how to do that. No, no, no. Just put a blurb in there that if your, you know, town was a type of dwelling and just put a link tell they can go to break it down. The census data that we are getting that when I ultimately start getting stuff is essentially an Excel spreadsheet dump. Yeah. And you go through and you got to find the new Windsor line.

That's really what it Well, you can put in like the town the town itself or the zip code. I say simplify it. Just make it single and multi. That's kind of a that's a summary from the census that gives this breakdown that the census will just have whatever the total is for your area combined. This American Community Survey is further breaking that out. And that's where I think it was Brenda said to me, there's the actual count that the census people get and then the professionals will look at that and there's a factor that they will build in for what they think it should be

should be. Because I know I've heard many times, you know, we just really poor turnout that we had, but I hear that in a lot of communities and it's they come back because it can't be give or take 15 20%. Or can it? Who really knows? Because people keep moving. They won't stand still. So I could count them all 360 million. So I say combined. I think we have consensus around here combined. Oh, okay. Yeah, I like that. Wow, I missed that. Good. Just do single family, multi family. Single and multi.

The single family, multif family, but have the owner occupy versus renter occupied. Got it. Y All right. Um, let me just make a note. Figure it out. Okay. Occupancy by type of tenant.

Isn't that kind of the same? Um, it was this might be of some value because this Well, it kind of shows I guess it doesn't really in the vacancies. I don't know. Yeah, I could take this one out. It does show that of the owner occupied homes, we did have more that were vacant. Again, that's a snapshot. So you talk about a vacancy, you know, that's not really a reflection of anything. You're always going to have something. I can just strike it because this 539, the breakdown of owner occupied, renter occupied, vacant, we already have that will be up here. occupied.

Sorry. It says below table 22.

Oh yeah. Y. Oh yes. Yes. All right, let me see where we are on this. Well, I got 803 I think we could maybe wrap this up in 15 minutes, half hour max, or just have this on next month's meeting and then for sure we will finish up.

Really nothing pressing on next month's agenda, is it? Not that I know of. I checked didn't hear anything from nothing has turned up that the mayor is aware of about the school. Yeah, they haven't responded back and I and the officer they're not going to be able to do anything until we get this finished and get the town approval. So, all right. So, so we only have like five pages left. Yeah, you guys wanted to talk tonight. Darn it.

It's all Drew's fault. You Drew Mobile. That's right. That mobile home. We pretty much stay on track.

I thought we didn't meet Monday 4:27 is our next one. And I will go out on a limb and promise we will finish this up. And then what I would like to do is I think we're far enough along. There are some things in there talked about. Well, it looks like we have this in the same spot several places. I'll pull that out. I haven't done that. I'll go start doing that this month and after we wrap it up next month, I can within a week turn and have a hard copy that can be available for each of you to have to look through one more time. I'll send it to you electronically, but I'll also print it out. Um the meeting after that is Monday, May 25th, which is Memorial Day. Um, normally we don't meet on I I guess this could be open if we want, but I propose maybe we meet on Tuesday of that week.

That sounds fun. 26. The 26th. Excellent. Yes. Um, there will be a carnival and parade this year. Yay. And the what are the dates of that? They were in May this year. 23rd the 19th to the 23rd and the parade will be on. Okay. So

is the 20th. Okay. And town cleanup day, Dave. Um, April, last Saturday of was that 28th? So, 20. Let's see. I got the calendar. Last Saturday of April is the 25th. 25th, but it will also be um bulk trash day as well. Yes. So, 40 425 is bulk trash and cleanup day. If you're available, please come out and help council members. that only wants to show up. No doubt. Plant some flowers and spread some mulch. It'd be awful.

I spent two years with the excuse of my knee. I don't think I can use that again for a third one. Um and then also the April 9th meeting just Yeah, it's a reminder when Dave gave to us the firehouse firehouse. I did not have that. Okay. I say we are any other announcements. I say we had a date for a celebration outing when this thing gets done for I think in Singapore. I I would h I would say let's just go to our Lord's pub and pretend we're in Ireland.

Also bring that up with the budget that you know we're going to have an outing to celebrate the end of commissioned uh VIP meeting. I like the outing. I would be more than willing to host something. We could finish up here and we could walk over to since I'm close and I can have some stuff already started and we can sit over there. I got to have some liquid. So, we'll talk about that next meeting.

Okay. Yeah, because that to April could also be chilly, too. We could do that after the May meeting. um coming attraction. I was God who was I talking to somebody. But when we finish this up and we aren't that far, then we'll turn it over to council and hopefully they're not going to have a lot of changes don't want us to make. Uh but we really should start looking at the town code and um we'll have a debriefing from ourselves about how to do this review the next time. U and what lessons learned which could be easy enough but then there will be um we'll need to slide and start looking at the code and um everybody should have a a copy of that but I think what I'll do I'll just get a a hard copy for everybody and turn that over to you. You can have that and then of course we'll do kind of the same way. Is it in the budget next year to do on the screen over here? No. Oh, okay. That doesn't mean that Wayne Myers won't be able to find one for us.

Okay. Um, were there any other announcements? Okay. Can I get a motion to adjourn? I'll motion. Rebecca. Motions and second. I'll second. Second by Kevin. All those in favor signify by I. I. Opposed. 70. I always want to say no. Don't close the