Board of County Commissioners - public_hearing

So the purpose of tonight is for us to listen and hear all your thoughts. We are going to, Commissioner Krebs, who is going to speak for a couple minutes, and then we'll be turning it over to our consultant who the county hired to assist with outside expertise through this process, Mr. Troy Truex. And then we are here to hear from you all and answer questions if we can. And we're here for a bit. So happy to hear from you all. Quick introductions. Daphne Daly is our deputy director. She's back there. We'll also be helping to emcee the this evening and also Claire Stewart, our division manager for comprehensive planning. So with that, Commissioner Krebs, would you like to say a few words?

Thank you, and welcome to the Senior Center. And as the card says, help shape the retirement communities of tomorrow. So we just started doing retirement communities in the Freedom District a few years ago. We've had some that are older that are not controversial, and then we've had some new ones. we have an aging population in the state of Maryland and Carroll County has one of the fastest growing aging populations in the state of Maryland. So we're all aging and we're going to have a large majority of our people over 55. So we're trying to plan for that and trying to find housing for that. So if you want to step down from your, grass and your mowing and your maintenance on your home, you'd have a maintenance-free place to live. And they're very popular all over the East Coast. They're all around us. And we want to make sure we're offering a product. I say offering a product. It's up to the development community to do that. But we have to have certain requirements in place to guide them and say, this is what we're expecting, a minimal amount of expectation. So currently in our zoning law, on certain types of property, no matter what it's zoned, let's say if it's our 41 acre lots, not that, our 20 half acre lots, our 10, our 75, it's certain sizes of homes can go there. But if you're a retirement community, you can build more than that because it's a retirement community and the houses will be closer together. But we don't have any real expectations in the code, in the law that says, what do we have to offer? Do we have how much open space? How much usable open space? What do we want in the open space? And some of it would be a requirement, and some of it would be suggestions. We're not going to tell the development community, like, which amenities to put in. But if you write down what you like, maybe they'll say, hey, these people want X, or they want Y. They want a pool. They want pickleball. They want shuffleboard. They want a pavilion. And it depends on the size of the community what can be done. But for me, the most important thing that we need to make sure of is that the safety components are in these communities. What does that mean? You expect when you move in a community that we've made sure the safety stuff's in there. Can our fire and EMS get to you? Do you have enough entrances and exits? Do you have a safe way to get out of your community? Are you at a failing intersection and you still have a community built there and you're still living with that? We're going to make sure that can't happen anymore. And we have some in progress. And we're going to make sure that we don't move forward with these things until we can say that you have safe ingress and egress to your home, into your community. We want to make sure you have safety to get into your home. I'm just going to put a pitch in for zero step. I've never seen a community that has steps going up it for over 55. You should just be able to step in. That's what they all have. We have to make sure that's in place. And there's things called universal design, what goes into a house that things that you would like. Zero step showers. No slip floors. There's a whole list of things. What should we require? What should we say? We would like this, but it would be optional. Little things like lever handles. It's easier than a doorknob. Making sure you have safe ingress and egress in and out of every story of your home. You're older. you're 65, we hope you're going to age in this house. Moving in, many of you are 55, you're still working. I know over in El Zegers, many of you are still working. You're in and out, but hey, hopefully you're going to be there when you're 65 and 75, and you can still age in that home. And that's the purpose of these new active communities. You downsize, you go there, they take care of everything, and you can age there with your family and hopefully with your loved ones and hopefully have a community to get to be in the same boat as you and have access... to different things to do for your community. So in this paper, this survey, we put this together to try to get ideas what you're looking for, where. Now, we obviously are not urban, but this was put together. Small town, rural, whatever. And this is for all of Carroll County, but mostly we're talking about the Freedom area right now, because that's the most place we can put these. And the other towns, the other eight towns in Carroll County all control their own zoning. So they can say what they want, like in Tawny Town in Westminster. Carroll County, the commissioners control freedom, so we're putting it in our zoning ordinance what we would expect. And some of the towns already have some of these things in their place. So what kind of retirement housing style do you prefer? Do you want options? Do you want to have all three-story townhomes? Do you want all single level? Do you want a mixture of both? So look at those. Parking. Parking is a very big issue. You expect it. What is it you'd want in parking? Making sure you have... Accessibility, I put down no step entry. Make sure you have wide enough doorways and hallways, which are usually 36 inches. Just check off the things that are important to you. It says select all that apply. And then safety features, select up to three. If you want to pick more, we'll not going to. We want you to put your top things here. And then what indoor retirement community amenities are most important, if you could choose, select up to four. We're not going to mandate these, but these will give ideas to the development community what kinds of things people would like to see. And then what outdoor retirement living community amenities are most appealing? What transportation options are you going to be looking for? And there's all sorts of questions here. So fill this out. And then on the very back, maybe even after you've heard the presentation, because we've had a consultant come in specially for this because our planning department has got a lot on their plate. So we brought a consultant in. And they're going to give us a presentation today after looking at what we've heard and best practices throughout other areas and what they believe we should be doing here. And they want to hear what you think of that. So take some notes and then write them on the comments on the back. If there's things you think, if you like it all, say I like it all. If you think, hey, this might be a little, we'd like to have this tweaked, write that down so Troy can figure that out. And we're also going to send out The sign-in sheet. Somebody doing that? Send it around. Please fill in. If you fill out the sign-in sheet, your name, address, phone number, and email, I'm going to try to keep you informed of how this progresses so you can weigh in and help us. And then we'll have a way to communicate with you what the next steps are. So if you want to be communicated with. Also, please feel free to forward this to anybody you know that wants to weigh in on what they would like to see in retirement communities because they might be thinking about it too. That way we'll get a really broad comments. After the presentation, we're going to ask if you have questions. We'll give you some answers or comments. If you have comments from some of our existing folks, you know, have some concerns, and would like to say, here's our issue. We'd like to make sure this doesn't happen again, or how do we fix it? We're going to hear also from EMS, because one of the most important things to me is safety of being able to get in and out with our emergency vehicles. So please, we want to hear from you. That's why we're here. And we've got a staff that wants to hear from you. We've paid a consultant, and we're going to get this done. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. So yes, as the Commissioner mentioned, there's a sign-in sheet. If you would like to put your name and address and email so that future information can be sent to you. When you finish the surveys, if you did them on paper, just leave them at the table there and we will collect them. If you did them online, thank you. That makes it easier for us to compile all the results. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Troy. Thank you.

Thanks, Chris. Can you all see the screen? Probably not. Maybe not. I'm going to try to do this without damaging equipment here. I'm going to leave it alone. I'm going to tear something apart. I'm Troy Truax. I work with Michael Baker International. So we are the consulting firm that's been brought in to help the county evaluate retirement homes and retirement villages. And as the lady over here educated me pretty well, we are not talking about continuing care retirement communities. That's a separately defined use. These are what we call senior 55 plus active living adult retirement communities like a Nell's Acres, and also the multifamily types of units you have here and you've seen elsewhere. So tonight, again, we want to hear from you. Part of this was to give you some information, but more importantly, have you encouraged you to fill out the survey. I talked to a number of folks that have already been doing that. um paper survey electronic survey and like commissioner krebs said if you could share that far and wide the more input that we get the better information we have so again as has been talked about some of the background the county currently is working to improve regulations related to right now retirement homes and retirement villages and we're dubbing those as age-restricted housing developments here in the county. Again, retirement homes and retirement villages are very specific uses defined for those types of developments in the county. Current work has included a comprehensive review of the current county code and also recommendations for their improvements. Our outcome to this process, which is coming here in the near term this fall, is to actually propose recommendations, which we started to formulate those Planning and Zoning Commission already has that information. We want to get some additional information from you folks tonight of if you were planning these communities tomorrow as a consumer, what would you like to see in them? Amenities, design features, how the roads are laid out, how walking trails are provided for, et cetera, so that you actually have a neighborhood that you're satisfied with. And I talked to a number of people too. You might live in a current community that said, if I would do it all over again, These are some of the recommendations I would have. So that's what we're really hoping to get from you to help further inform this process. Um, so our purpose methods and outcomes, again, to gather your feedback on your preferences, uh, your recommendations, we were going to take them again and actually, uh, evaluate those for incorporation into county code requirements. Right now, the county requirements for zoning and site development for these types of projects are very minimal. almost to the point of other than allowing the uses to occur in certain areas, there's really no design, what we would call design standards that are backing up those communities. So the Planning and Zoning Commission, County Commissioners really have, are evaluating them based upon what the developer is proposing and they don't have like their own checklist to evaluate against those proposals and ask the questions that they need to ask like, did you meet this requirement? How about this requirement? So that's what we're really trying to beef up those standards. Age-restricted housing, again, is housing for senior citizens age 55 plus. That includes retirement homes and retirement villages. Again, these are defined in the county zoning code, specifically Chapter 158 if you want to get very technical. And again, these are not assisted living facilities or continuum retirement care, retirement communities. These are provided for as a separate use in the code. We're focused on retirement homes and retirement villages as they're currently defined in the code. So an example of a retirement home, again, these are some local examples. Here, these two products, a building, so a retirement home, by definition, a building designed to meet the needs of and exclusively for the residents of senior citizens or couples where at least one occupant is a senior citizen. A very technical way to define it, but it's lacking a lot of detail. So one of the recommendations we're coming back with is actually start to change not only the name of these types of uses, but also really embellish on the purpose and intent and how these are defined. So the actual developers are saying, okay, we're designing and we're proposing a retirement home and also retirement villages, and they're just called developments. So nothing specific about it other than the name and a little bit about the definition. There's nothing there that really is exuding that these communities are really designed for active living seniors who want to have options and amenities and possibly even options for different types of dwelling types in those communities. So we're yes. Okay. I can read it. So retirement village, um, as defined in the current zoning code, a development consisting of single family, two family and or townhouse dwellings designed to meet the needs of an exclusively for the residence of senior citizens or couples where at least one occupant is a senior citizen. So it talks about what the intent is, but it's really lacking on kind of more flavor. And that's what we've started to come in to evaluate, make recommendations to specifically let's modernize the term. We've looked at other communities where these developments have been successful. and growing, they don't use retirement village. They don't use retirement home. They might use active adult living community. That's the terminology. And if you look at their definitions, they're far more defining. So there's more interpretation that needs to be done. and also expectations set for what the county of Carroll and you as residents want to see in these developments. So when developments are being proposed, there's an expectation, these are the standards now. Now we have none. Tomorrow we're going to have more standards that actually starts to invoke these types of amenities. Because these aren't the typical residential subdivision that I live in. And I even admit through my commissioner talks with the commissioners and planning and zoning commission, I have a three foot sidewalk all in my development. Where do people walk? On the road. There's not enough room for a three foot walk. So that's one thing we've looked at. A lot of these communities are requiring a five foot sidewalk, at least as a minimum. So two people can walk abreast. The five foot is an ADA requirement for wheelchair passing. So again, that's some of the standards that we're saying these need to be increased to that level of standard because we got to accommodate not, you know, young families with children. We're accommodating active adult seniors that want to enjoy their community, but also have amenities to go along with it too. Some of the examples in Carroll County right now of retirement villages. Again, these are subdivisions, if you will, homes, et cetera. Carroll Vista in Tawny Town, Castle Field in Manchester, Greenvale Muse in Westminster, and the Reserve at New Windsor, also, of course, in New Windsor. All of these are 55 plus. We looked them up to how they are actually marketed and defined if you look them up on a website. an active adult community featuring single-family homes. Amenities includes a clubhouse, fitness center, indoor and outdoor pools, and a putting green. That's Carol Vista. And you can read, the other ones have the same type of marketing promotion on them, how they're actually being advertised. Right now, you don't see anything in those explanations that this is a retirement community. So again, we're really trying to modernize the terminology. Retirement homes, two examples are Snowden Creek, in Eldersburg here and also Liberty Place in Sykesville. Those are the two examples. Both of those are defined as age 55 plus age restricted independent living apartments. So those are multi-story types of buildings. Probably most have an elevator requirement to meet a building code. And then you also have examples where you have a retirement village where you have single family townhomes and other types of residential structures, one or two-story, but you also have areas that actually include a multi-story, multi-family apartment-style living. So two examples are Winterfred Manor. Anybody lives in Winterfred Manor? Really beautiful, well done. It's probably done back in the 80s, I think. We looked at it on probably about 11 acres. So even a small area like that project was built many decades ago gives these different types of living styles and options. And then also Nell's Acres has both residential and also multi-story. I talked to Dawn and others here that live in the apartments as well. So again, there are some good examples. They may have some of their challenges and we want to hear from you through the survey work. And tonight, if you live in these communities or desiring these types of communities, what do you want to see? Because one thing we talked about with the commissioners is you as a community are competing where there's an aging population They have a desire to meet certain amenities. They're paying a price point for these homes and communities to live in. Are they choosing Carroll County? Are they choosing other areas like Frederick, Howard County, or even going up into Adams County or places in Pennsylvania where it might be close, relatively close? They're making choices based upon the way these communities are designed in addition to affordability standards. So again, some of the current challenges that we've evaluated in the current codes relative to retirement homes and retirement villages, there's definitely a lack of standards for age-restricted housing, including the active retirement living needs of seniors here in Carroll County. That leads to a lack of predictability. So if the developers there's no standards for me to submit a plan or design my community by from the county code, then I'm not going to meet any standards that aren't there. So we need to have standards to have predictability on the developer side that's also helped to be informed by what the community wants and this is one of the inputs that we're trying to get to have that predictability built into the codes and also to on the back end once plans are submitted currently Planning and Zoning Commission as well as accounting commissioners it's really up to their discretion of what they're trying to evaluate those plans against if there's no standards in the code then what are they actually evaluating what questions are they asking what demands are they are they requiring of the applicant so again A lot of good people serve on these boards and commissions, but if you don't have standards in front of you by which you're evaluating them, it makes it really discretionary of what questions they're asking. So they do a good job, but we're going to help that by actually making more standards more specific, outlined in the code, is our work. So again, county's policy direction, the key goals for retirement homes and retirement villages of the future is to have diverse attainable housing options for active older adults. My Commissioner Krebs emphasized, ensure that there's standards in there that require a community to have safe, walkable and context sensitive environments. You want to make sure that the the community you're living in fits in with the surrounding developments around you. And also promote, those developments promote independent living, social connection, and long-term stability. I know I've talked to a number of you, like you would really like to have options so you can go from a two-story to a one story and maybe even to something that's more accommodating for some type of assisted living within those communities as well. House choice and affordability. Again, one thing we heard loud and clear and what we see in other communities, make sure there's a mix of housing types to be required. Two family, single family, townhome, multifamily. There's other options too. We've expressed those on the survey that you can choose from. Accommodate varying incomes. That's why a mix of housing also helps with various income levels and price points that consumers want to choose from. Also make sure the mobility needs of those communities are being thought of, and also the household sizes. Some still want to have extended family to come to say. Some may not have that, and that's why they want a much smaller place with less interior maintenance to deal with. And also encourage efficient, flexible, and attainable housing design so you have options and choices to choose from as you actually choose the house plan that you want. and the amenities and features that you want to see in that home. Obviously, additional direction that we've been given and focused on is make sure we have clear design standards for these communities. How are they being laid out? Driveways, sidewalks, pathways, et cetera. And also make sure that these housing are supporting the wellness needs. So even down to safety and security, making sure that they're well lit, making sure that the pathways are lit. So again, that's what we have in mind, that we want to make sure that those are core design requirements in the code going forward. And then to repeat and emphasize core design outcomes, we're promoting an active lifestyle for active living seniors of 55 plus. We want to make sure these communities are designed with safety and accessibility in mind. We want to make sure they are what we call context sensitive, meaning that they are compatible in scale and architecture to your surrounding development. They don't look out of place, if you will. And also make sure that they're sustainable in terms of the folks that are living there. You're 55 today, but tomorrow you're 60, 65, 70, 75. Making sure that we have those types of amenities that actually encourage that active living lifestyle, but also opportunities to age in place versus having to pack up and move because there's not another housing option here for me to downsize from what I'm currently in. So again, some of the goals here to enhance mobility, independence, and quality of life, these gets down to some of the recommendations, some of the policy recommendations that we're focused on more specifically. So making sure we require amenities that promote physical health, recreation, and social engagement. Make sure that we have lifelong learning opportunities included. So again, just like this facility has social rooms, meeting rooms, activity rooms, et cetera. Those are the types of things that we want the developer. We're not demanding specific requirements. These are the types of things that we want them to encourage and start to think about as they provide for these in their plan proposals. Some of the key amenities that we would like to encourage and see are walking trails, fitness facilities, community gardens, and also clubhouses, gathering spaces. Again, we're not demanding or dictating but we do are going to require that they provide what we call an amenity report. What are you providing? What amenities in your community are you providing? And those are indoor and also outdoor amenities. And then that's a part of the conversation where the Planning and Zoning Commission can actually have that conversation with the developer Where did you come up with these ideas? How are they derived? Did you talk to constituents? Did you test the market? And making sure there's a sound basis for why they're being provided. And also, too, some projects are smaller. You don't have all the room to provide them for them. So that's an issue where we're trying to accommodate certain amenities in the context of the space available. And also, too, if there's neighboring parks or open spaces, make sure that the connections of those developments are also connecting to those neighboring types of parks, walking, biking trails, so you're not just an enclosed community. You have direct access where you have pedestrian connections with your development. And like I said, internally, make sure we're encouraging connectivity throughout these developments for walking, social engagement for sidewalks, bicycle and pedestrian pathways, and also public transportation. I bet you a lot of these communities are probably not even thinking about, do I need a bus stop somewhere near or internal to actually provide transportation options for the residents that I'm building these homes for? Promote safety and security. Again, some of the recommendations for a policy change are ensure we have adequate lighting and clear wayfinding. So signage is important. Pedestrian scale design and also make sure these aren't just built for like typical residential subdivisions. Cars are traveling through them very fast. Now we want these to be walkable communities and safe walkable communities and focus more on the pedestrian and less on the vehicles that are traveling through. And like Commissioner Krebs emphasized, we also now are requiring to make sure that emergency access is at the top of the list, among others, to make sure that fire response is meeting certain fire code standards. And we have those built into some of the recommendations already. Context sensitive design, this is all about the look and feel. I think there's a lot of good products out there. But again, these are all at the whim of the developer providing that information or providing those design styles. We want to make sure we have that written in code that we really are demanding and requiring architecture to be part of your design. You're paying a lot of money for these home products. You want to have a nice looking product as well on the back end. And also too, compact walkable development, shared open space. So the green space and open space areas are very important that we've talked about. And also coordinated infrastructure planning, traffic improvements, offsite traffic improvements. I know there's one development that really has some issue with some intersection concerns of ingress and egress. Making sure that's very much addressed as part of the plan review. and also to make sure that there's long-term fiscal sustainability and also looking at these projects from an environmental stewardship. The county has a lot of great recommendations in code standards for stormwater, environmental sensitive features, et cetera. So we've really reinforced those types of standards and requirements in these new regulations. So again, we value your input. Hopefully this gives you a little bit more insights to some of the information we're looking for. The survey is, again, both in electronic format also paper format so we'd like to maybe open it up for any questions I got to a number of tables I apologize I didn't get to all of them but this would be a good opportunity again if you were trying to think about how to design and what requirements you would want to see from a county zoning and site development code that's what we want to try to gather out tonight so we could make take those recommendations back for the county's consideration so I don't know Chris If you want me to emcee or keep going, okay. So Daphne, if how you want to, there's a gentleman here has a question or comment.

I think we want to try to make sure everybody uses a microphone so that we can capture the audio. Hello. Yep.

It's on. Test.

All right.

My name's Terry Harrigan, and I have an active interest in this. I have a prepared speech I put together. Good evening, my name's Terry Harrigan. I have lived, worked, and loved in Carroll County since 1982. I've had three houses built. and raise two children here. I'm an elected board member of Nell's Acres, and I'm here tonight because our community is a case study in how the county has failed. The very residents is asked to grow old here. Let me walk you through the failures. a failed intersection. The county's final site plan rated the intersection of Fallon Road and Route 26 as failing prior to any development of Nell's Acres. The county's ordinance states that no permits will be issued until this issue is resolved, yet someone issued 129 permits before anything was planned. The county has accepted over $220,000 and promised to build a relief road that would send every resident over two miles and seven turns through the existing residential areas to get a half a mile west on 26. The closest light. Nothing has been done, and this solution will only outrage a large number of Freedom District residents. Number two, a failed network for EMS services. We have a dead-end street that fire trucks and ambulance cannot turn around in. Emergency services are on record requiring a turnaround and a minimum of 20 feet road clearance. The county approved housing so dense there is no place to park other than the residents own short driveways. We have roads too narrow to park, driveways too narrow to step out of, and too steep for old people to walk on. a failed open space plan. Our site plan required 20% open space and proper water collection areas. Instead, the county allowed the open space requirement to be satisfied entirely by the storm water management ponds, counting the land area twice. The result is a 55-plus community with essentially no open space. The county got their stormwater ponds. The residents did not get their green space. Failed documentation. I have come across at least three different sets of governing documents for Nell's Acres. The set I was handed at settlement, over 400 pages long, came with a choice, sign them now or don't settle. I have since read them in detail, and it's clear they were never written for our community. Among other things, they spell out a proper dress code for elevators we do not have. We were told by Ryland Holmes so many things that simply were not true. For instance, everyone I have spoken to was told the association was responsible for exterior repairs, yet the documents say otherwise. Failed financial accountability. I am still waiting on the most basic information from Pelican Management. Where is our community's money going? Pelican appears more concerned with the developer patent wants than with the residents who are paying their salary now. I am a board member elected by the Nell's Acres residents and have been told I am not allowed to speak to our own management company by our management company. A failed builder. I have cracks in my Maryland home foundation walls. I moved in less than two years ago. When I pointed it out, the solution was putty and paint to the grass line. That's because my house is visible by the model. failed basic needs in an aging population. Every single community in Maryland requires no-step entries, railings, 36-inch doorways. These features were not required. Even worse, some units have bedrooms who only exit as an egress window requiring an elderly resident to climb up a ladder. So here we are. The county can find the dollars and the urgency to fight transmission towers over farm views in the north, but literally telling freedom, and I mean literally, if you go back and you listen to some of the recorded county meetings, but literally telling freedom district residents, buyers beware when it comes to their own basic safety needs. I raise these issues because some are still fixable. I am asking this county to hold all bonds until a thorough review is made and agree upon resolutions are completed. Second, to put real standards in a place so no future 55 plus community in Carroll County opens the doors with the same failures built in. I was elected to represent my neighbors, and you were elected to represent us. I expect you to do everything to fix what you can that can be fixed before tragedy befalls one of us.

Thank you. I have copies of that.

I'm sorry. Yeah, that would be great, because I took some brief notes. But some of these, like the emergency access, we realize those are not addressed at all. So we are absolutely requiring emergency turnaround. That's perfect. Failed open space plan, that's one of the things that we are addressing to make sure that you actually have usable open space, not a stormwater pond. Also, too, the accessibility. issues in terms of design features, et cetera. So a number of these are relative to the code requirements that I think I'm not saying every single one of them is in the purview, but I know the commissioners are very attuned to some of these other issues. But in terms of what we're focused on, I'd say probably half of these were addressing those. So your comments and the inputs, I feel confident that we're going to at least start to say, and that's exactly why you've looked at a community, and I'm not pointing one out, but you did, but if we would do it all over tomorrow, so you've identified really some of a lot of the shortcomings that the county commissioners knew and that's why we're here to try to make sure we're closing the gap on some of those there's some other comments here that might be more builder responsibility outside the county purview and those are good comments but hopefully I see you're shaking your head hopefully what we've talked to you tonight the proof's in the pudding right uh but yeah that that information right now is currently being evaluated in more detail by the Planning and Zoning Commission. I'm looking at one of the members in the back. So we're making progress. This is going to further inform that work, but I would say I feel like we're meeting a lot of these number of items already in our recommendations. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

As a new resident of Carroll County, It seems to me, based on what I've just heard, that you have an accountability and an enforcement issue. Because if some of these things are already in the codes and they're not being enforced, then they're not doing anybody any good. So as you move forward, I would encourage you to consider that.

Yep, and with a number of county commissioners here and elected officials, I'm sure they're hearing that loud and clear for sure. I think I wanted to have the fire officials go next. Is that correct, Commissioner Krebs? There we go.

Good evening. I'm Eddie Rook, Fire Chief at the Sykesville Fire Department. One of our biggest concerns, and it's been concerns for many years, is that what's been brought up already is the access to neighborhoods with the roadways. They're A lot of them are 20 foot width, but we're allowing, or parking's being on both sides, and that's causing a lot of issues with us. The accessibility, the fire trucks nowadays are eight to 10 foot wide, and then the ladder trucks, they take up to 15 feet to set up. A couple of different issues with that is once we get into these neighborhoods, the ambulances, the fire trucks, if we get a number apparatus in there, we can't get units out. We can't get patients out because the roadways are clogged up because we don't have those 20-foot road widths. I will tell you, I've been around for a while with Sykesville. Some people know me. Some people don't. I have one developer that had worked very, very closely with us, Elm Street, which is the Warfield Complex, if anybody's familiar with that, on the Springfield property. They worked with me very closely on turning radiuses. If you go down there, they have offset parking. There's no, it's clear width. They work with the addressing and the lighting and everything else, because for us, Two o'clock in the morning, we get sleepies in our eyes and you can't see addresses. So it's just one of those things that I thought that was tremendous over all the years. That's the only developer that's ever worked with the fire department that closely.

So some of the, my name is Joe Dennis, I'm the Deputy Chief with Sykesville. So regarding the 20-foot width, some of the solutions on the current state of affairs is that there are no parking signs and that there's no way for the police department or any law enforcement agency to enforce to enforce no parking on each side. That's something that has to be ironed out between the board of directors on how they want to address that within the existing developments. They're going to have to work through that. There's just no way we can address that. But we need to be proactive. We need to look for solutions through the board of directors, through the communities that this affects to compensate or mitigate that issue. As the chief said, the access issue, the turning radius, just parking on just where the roads turn within the development, the turning radius on the larger apparatus has such what you call a large tail swing that it would sideswipe the cars. We would not be able to get through. the ability to lay hose lines in the street to conduct operations. The other issue is some of the developments as they're developed, they have no rear access. The newer developments are high residential. There's no access to the rear of the buildings. It needs to be at least considered whether it's an access way or roadway where we can get to all sides. These are considerations that we encourage the county and the commissioners to endorse so that we have access to all sides of the building. We know what the code says. We know what NFPA says. It allows in certain circumstances for commercial structures such as storage facilities to not have access to each side. But our hose lines only reach so far. Firefighting is a labor intensive business and we strongly encourage that the ordinances, the zoning regulations take these things into consideration where that we get the opportunity to have more further feedback not only that the citizens get greater feedback but that we get greater feedback beyond the zoning and the fire code office. The last thing is that with regard to how it's constructed, now this is more of a private comment on my side, I often wonder if we require these things from developers, why aren't there performance bonds put in place? that is that is a financial way from because my previous experience as a banker when you develop these properties you put performance bonds in place that those sidewalks have to be this width these trees have to be planted these things have to be in place if they don't succeed The community exercises the performance bond and gets the work done. And that burden is borne by the developer because they've put up the collateral for that.

If I would just go through them. So one of the strong recommendations, and we've already done that, is we've made a recommendation to amend Chapter 91, which is your fire regulations. It largely just focuses on water access and provision, but we've added in there the NFPA 1 standards, not by reference. We've specified those in there. So like the 20-foot, like the cartway width, The clear zone for both apparatus, that's what it requires. We have that as a minimum standard. The turning radius, we have that in there. So you gentlemen are all familiar with that. We've incorporated a lot of that information right in there. And also, too, we know the authority, the code, the NFPA code says authority having jurisdiction may require more than one point of access. I've served on my local planning commission for almost 27 years, and I can guarantee you, There's no plan that goes out the door if it doesn't have at least two points of access. So that's one thing I've stressed through my presentations as a former county emergency management guy. So I appreciate that. So I'm strong on that information. And we've also put the power back into the county chief for fire. You have to look at these plans. I was shocked that there's nothing in the code that requires your review. My upbringing is where's the fire code officials review, what their comments are on it. So a lot of those things we're putting the power into your hands too on these plan reviews so that we have a joint shared responsibility to look at these emergency access issues. I know the performance bond was a personal comment, but that's standard practice. You require all the improvements that are being required of a development to be bonded at a cost of 110%. And then you only release bonds until they're signed off that those have been installed. And if they go belly up, the county or whomever is responsible has the ability to exercise those bonds, get the money to put the improvements in so the community is not left holding the bag. So yeah, it's a great comment. Great comment. And I'll just say too, I know Chris and Daphne, we've talked about making sure that the chief and deputy chief have a chance to look at the language to make sure they're copacetic with what we're providing. They're all on the same page. So we would want to encourage that as well. Yes, sir.

Hi, I'm Steve Whistler. I'm president of our Carroll County School Board and I would like for you all to consider putting requirements in place that would allow on occasion our school buses to be able to enter and exit the communities. Although we have age-restricted communities under the Housing for Older Persons Act, There are cases where we have our older populations watching children, grandchildren because of hardship issues. The Carroll County School Board spends about two to three million dollars a year providing special transportation services to children that we are required to provide transportation for to and from school. So, I mean, it's amazing. We spent about two to $3 million on just nine students transferring them to and from school every year. But ensuring that we have adequate turning radiuses and turnaround for our school buses in particular, having more than one ingress and egress point so that our school buses can navigate those streets in and out. It would allow us to meet the federal laws associating with transporting kids back and forth to school every day in those rare circumstances that our age-restricted retirement communities watch children.

That's great. Good comment. Thank you. Great comment.

Hello, my name is John Hohen. I'm also a resident of Nell's Acres. I would encourage you in your future considerations about parking in these developments to really consider making sure there's enough parking for not only the people that live there, but their families that want to come on holidays or come visit. suffering from an incredible lack of forethought to provide parking in Nell's Acres. We have 12 parking places at the community center, two in front of each of our houses. That is it. Our roads are too narrow to park on. People are parking on the sidewalks. And it breaks my heart to see, you know, people that have to park on sidewalks or park at a community center hundreds of feet away just to walk to go see their grandparents or see their families on holidays or whenever they want to come visit. So there should be some minimum required code for a number of parking places per density of these facilities and communities so that not only is there enough for the people themselves to park comfortably but for their families to come visit.

We have that already in there. So we're, we're, we've, we've thought we've, we've heard that loud and clear. We've seen other communities require, uh, basically guests, visitor parking areas. And also we've, we've, we've increased, we've added those standards. They were lacking, they were not there. So we, in our recommended amendments for the code is absolutely making sure, but also. making sure they're sufficient. So there's a requirement, minimum requirement based upon units or density.

And access from these parking lots to these types of homes. Absolutely. You can't have them 400 feet when down a hill or up a hill. Yeah, they have to be. They've got to be dispersed throughout the community.

That's exactly what the language says. They have to be distributed throughout. They have to be connected. So a parking lot for a satellite parking has to be connected with an accessible sidewalk to another sidewalk area. So yeah, I think we've got that covered. We're going to go back and make sure we looked at it. One of the things we've had the planning commission to look at is, what would we think the minimum distance should be that any unit should be served by a satellite parking? uh... facility so like a a parking spot you know visiting parking spaces so we have some recommendations in the planning commission is going to come back and give us some additional thoughts on that as we work through it i'm glad you're looking at for future communities absolutely it doesn't help us absolutely sorry about that but that's uh... we're trying to look for the new ones here

Good evening. My name is Mike Ellis, and I'm a resident of Nell's Acres. And Terry, I very much appreciated your comments earlier and all the hard work that you're doing on our behalf. I also struck me to think, I don't recall seeing a fire hydrant in our community. Maybe the chief can answer that. Does anybody know? Do we have any? In front of your house. Okay.

Okay, so good, got that. Crisis averted, right? Thank you.

Okay, but Terry got me thinking also about the sediment areas, you know, what do you call them? Stormwater? Stormwater drains. And when I moved in, I was promised that those would be green areas, mowed and properly tended. And you wouldn't even know them from a regular lawn, OK? I talked to the contractor, and he laughed because he says, no requirement. There's no requirement to actually plant those. And in fact, the engineering specifications say he mixes it. He mixes a formula with sand and silt and gravel and puts it on there. And he says, it's going to grow weeds. And that's what they're doing. The two or three that are in established are growing weeds. And there are seven more to be done, five right around the corner from me. And I just think they're blights that could be properly done if there was the proper code, if you will, or specifications to make them, yeah, they'll be indents, I get that, but they were promised to be green and managed. They are not going to be that way. Okay, so where's the teeth in that? You know, who owns that? I mean, does the county have regulations, or is it the developer, if somebody's here?

Chris, you're the stormwater, not to put you on the spot, but are those in the county in Nell's Acres, are they owned by the Homeowners Association or are they county owned? Okay. So, yeah, the county has stormwater regulations, but that will be definitely one we're taking notes on to go back and evaluate to see what the requirements are.

Okay, I appreciate that because, again, as I spoke with the contractor.

Yeah, there's a specific, like on stormwater management facilities, there's a specific chapter in the code.

Okay.

I don't want to say it's outside of this, but it's all part of development, right? I'm very certain. So it would be applicable to a site plan, but certainly, yeah, there's requirements that they have, but it might be a good opportunity just to evaluate how those are – How that one's owned and operated, because that's a private development. Yeah. Even the roadways are private.

Yeah, I appreciate the fact that they may work, but... Aesthetically. Aesthetically, they're a nightmare.

Gotcha.

Okay? They really are.

Well, one thing, at least on the open space part, we're really trying to make sure that the open space is not inclusive of stormwater facilities.

Okay.

Because stormwater facilities are a stormwater pond. If you get a heavy rain, you're using them for open space. Okay. But oftentimes, you know, that's typical where you might see a lax of any lax of standards. It's like, well, we've got open space. It's green on the plan. It's open space because it's not built for the building on it. So we're trying to get away from that type of perspective and actually focus on that's for a stormwater management facility. It's a utility almost. We want usable open space, contiguous open space for residents' enjoyment. It's a lawn. Those could include build amenities or walking pathways, et cetera. That's what we want to – or requiring from the developers, what's your amenity plan? And that open space has to be – could be part of that amenity plan. What they're proposing back, does it satisfy what we believe this community is going to need? Right.

I think me talking to numerous people.

The one next to me is covered. So mine's underground, the one near the model.

It is.

Yes, how about that? How about that? So they can be improved. I wanted to make sure he was aware.

Okay. Okay. Well, I didn't even know because it's covered, right? But the rest of them, so I won't belabor that, but I'm left here not knowing what the action is, really, to be honest with you. I'm like, I'm going to walk out tomorrow and not know. Like the developer is just going to do what he does. Right.

If you have your... contact information and maybe note on there the stormwater management concerns in Nell's Acres. I'm not trying to put the staff on the spot.

You know, it's the typical thing. You got the county, you got the developer, and then you got everyone passing it. You know, it's like Nell's, the builder says, that's not my problem. And then the contractor says it's not my problem because that's the specific. So everyone does this, right? Yeah, it's passing the buck. So you don't know who to go to. Passing the buck, right.

Yeah, I know in some cases the county owns stormwater facilities, right, Chris?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to remember. On residential subdivisions, the county takes over ownership. Because this is a site plan, because this is a site where it's all one common ownership, the owner, in this case the management company, the owner of the site, they own the stormwater facilities. Now, there are specifications that they have to meet regarding planting and maintenance and so on. So those will be inspected once construction is complete.

By the county? Yes. Okay, that would be great to find out what that specification is because certainly me talking to the contractor does not believe at all that anything will grow there properly based on the, of course, he took a jab at the engineers, right, will grow based on how he had to put it in. There's one right next to me, and it can't grow anything. It just can't grow anything in it. It's not topsoil.

So I don't want to get too much into the weed doesn't work. There you go. Yes, there are specifications for planting and for seed mixtures, and we have those types of facilities all around the county, and they're all green.

Oh, wonderful. Okay.

Yes, your site is still under construction. When construction is complete, our inspector will come out and make sure that it meets the specifications.

Okay, that's great. Appreciate that. And then the last thing I want to say is also along the lines of aesthetics, right? Because, well, this is maybe going forward. I mean, the ship has sailed in ours, and maybe now it's a board of directors or a pelican management. I'm not sure who. But it certainly would be nice in a community such as this that there's forward planning as far as the aesthetics to plant some trees in certain areas, right?

Yep, landscaping.

Landscaping. I don't see... I don't know if there's any plans to do that in our community. Certainly, I know that Ryan Holmes absolutely said, absolutely not. That's nothing we're going to do. Yes. Yes, I am too. I've got trees behind me. The trees in the back? The back. Okay, I'm talking about trees in the front.

Like street trees.

Yeah, street trees. I'm not talking about trees in the back. I got lovely trees in the back of my home, but the key is, you know, especially where... you have patio backing onto patio going down the street, right? And it would seem to make sense to me, if you're building these in the future, that you would plan to put some kind of trees in these areas that you're seeing straight through down these rows and rows of back-to-back trees. sun porches and patios. At least, you know, some well put trees in the planning process. Now, whether we deal with that as a community separately, ourself, if we have to, so be it, right? But I certainly talked to Ryan Holmes about it and they said, absolutely, that's not in their plan. And maybe rightly so. And I would be willing to bet it's not in the developer's plan.

Yeah. And I've, I've toured that development too. Like in the back, I, I have to look at the plan set, but I'm sure there's like that, the areas between the homes when they're facing the back, that's probably some stormwater conveyance area. And one thing they'd say, we're not, you know, you don't want to put any types of mature plantings in there that would

Not in there, but slightly off the- I know what you're saying.

Oftentimes, too, unfortunately, the newer developments, they look kind of a moonscape. But if you don't have any plantings there that are actually going to mature, so yeah, we'll look into that. I'd go back and look and say what was required for Nell's Acres from a landscape perspective. plan and making sure we're looking forward future making look that we're not missing anything on the landscaping side for street tree planning. Yeah, those are typical standards that you would find in any land development project. You have landscaping standards. You have to have so many trees for so many units or what have you. So I'll go back and just double check and see how it's tying into these types of projects.

Okay, thank you. I yield. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Hi, my name is Susan Arrington and I Thank you for doing this. And yes, I think everybody agrees that there needs to be standards because you have these communities that are being thrown out there without any amenities, let alone what you guys are going through. I have a question, though. This is a very good process. What's the next step? So we have this information. I filled out my survey online. Hopefully everybody else has or on the paper. Excellent recommendations. And these are, as I understand it, recommendations to the Planning Commission. And they choose to adopt guidelines, put specifics as far as the- I see Daphne coming right to the mic.

She's going to give you the details.

I mean, and we talked about sidewalk with my parents were in, um, Carol Vista and lovely place, wonderful amenities and everything like that. But getting out of their car with their Walker, which you can still drive when you have a Walker, they're going into the grass, which then you have commissioner Krebs preached to that me many times. So one thing you have first responders that can't get to you and things like that. So what are there going to be specifics or recommendations? No, these are specific. So thank you.

I can let Daphne go into the process details, but we have literally taken our research, in addition to tonight's inputs, just adding more clarification of what we've already done. So it's reaffirming what we thought were the right recommendations. And then also, too, we're actually going into the actual county code language and making redlined change recommendations, meaning that When this gets to an enactment, there are specific language, specific requirements, not just policy high lofty things. And what does this mean? It's a great question. So right now, that information is with the Planning and Zoning Commission. We met last couple weeks ago. There's going to be a couple meetings July 8th and July 21st. that our two additional meetings at the Planning and Zoning Commission are evaluating specific codification amendments to this very topic. So Daphne, I'll let Daphne, I won't steal her thunder, go into the details.

Yeah, so basically we're at the stage where the Planning Commission is doing kind of the detail work, going through all the different... code amendments that could be made. We're gonna take all of your feedback from tonight's meeting, all of the responses from the surveys that we get and use that to continue to discuss these potential code amendments with the Planning and Zoning Commission. So that hopefully what they end up with recommending to the commissioners reflects all of your input. So once the planning and zoning commission has finished with their work, they'll recommend a whole set of amendments to our code that will go to the board of County commissioners. And the, and the commissioners will, uh, will have a chance to tweak it if they want. Um, and then they will send that to a public hearing. So this is one of the reasons why I hope everybody's signing in with your contact information so that we can make sure that you are aware of the additional points down the way that you can review what's being recommended and make comments to the Board of County Commissioners, so what ultimately gets adopted is hopefully what you'd like to see. But that may be, we hope that that public hearing will be in the beginning of September sometime. It's not officially been set yet.

Thanks, good question.

Some of you are overgrown. I'm Pamela Malkin and I live in Finksburg. And so one of the first things that I understand is that higher density housing cannot be put in my neighborhood because there's no water source. Water sources are only available in Carroll County here in the New Freedom area and in Tawny Town. So these policy changes, or I don't know if that's the appropriate term, would not at this moment impact me or my neighborhood. But also what I'm concerned about is that I'm filling out a form regarding where would I like to move to, should I wish to move out of my home now to my next senior, next level of housing. And those desires that are very personal to me are not necessarily the changes in code that I would recommend. My desires for housing actually is my forever home. I never want to move when I'm 90. If I'm moving, I'm moving for forever. I would not move into a 55 and over community. I would move into a community where I can be cared for forever. Just telling you. So my interests for my personal uses don't necessarily meet the changes in code, but I do have some really specific interests as to what would be a good change for code. To me, a very basic change for code would be to codify universal design. If you're saying this is a community for someone who's over 55, to me the very minimum you're saying you want to put more housing on less space, then you need to provide universal design. You need to have a certain size doorway. You need to have lever handles. You need to have faucets that are easy to move so that as I get older, should I happen to want to move twice, then I would have that already in my establishment. I'll be able to enter with my wheelchair or my mobility device? Should I have my knee replaced? And that knee goes bad. And at 55, I need to have better housing. Um, so, so I'm just trying to express that, that whereas the survey is a good interest, I don't know if it's meeting the need for how do we want code changed?

Yeah, Pam, you and I talked about that. And I know one thing on universal design we debated, how far does the county want to go? I know a number of county commissioners talked about, hey, how heavy-handed do we want to be in dictating these requirements? So that's a very, very specific question that we have left with the Planning and Zoning Commission for them to talk about. Like we have in one example requiring 36-inch minimum door widths. But we did say if you want to have other specific requirements quantifiable standards. That's a policy decision that the County has to come back with and say, we want that. Those like Howard County includes all that we talked about it. So that that's a great point. That's a question. We have a policy decision to direction that we're looking to have from the planning and zoning commission. So yeah, that, that could be one going up to the board of commissioners where they say, yeah, we agree to, or no, we don't want to be that handy handed. So that's, that's definitely on the table.

But that's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that the information I'm giving you is not necessarily about how do you change the code. This is really, you're asking me where would I like to move to. That's not necessarily how I'd like to change the code.

Yeah, we talked about it and you and I agree to disagree on that point.

But I think that the community also may feel that as well.

And if they do, again, I think what I've heard collectively is the input that we're getting is consistent with what we've already moved forward. And we designed these questions to back end from a consumer. So we took what we thought were good recommendations, policy changes, and then translated that into a consumer perspective. So, again, you and I have talked about it. We agree to disagree on how the survey was laid out. But hopefully the interpretation that we get out of it is really going to definitely make a difference in the code policy changes.

Anyone?

It went dead.

There we go. Anyone who wants to speak to the exact code language, once that gets out of the Planning and Zoning Commission, that will be on our website for everybody. It's on our website right now. As it gets amended, we will update that. If you want to get into nitty gritty code language, have at it. It's available for your review and you're welcome to send comments both to the planning commission or to the county commissioners at any point, especially during the public hearing. You can dive into all of the specifics of the code language. I think our intent with the survey was to try to get the general feeling for the kinds of things that you all would like to see in your communities in the future and we can take that and translate that into code language.

My name is Glenn and I am a resident at Nell's Acres. And I've heard a lot of people come up here today and say, well this was already code, this was already put in place. Obviously, Nell's Acres didn't do a lot of these things. So what's going to happen to that? Are you guys going to go in there and make sure they fix this? Or do they just get away scot-free?

Yeah, I'll let Commissioner Krebs, in terms of how do you retroactively go back and require an approved plan that didn't have the requirements in place at that point in time.

That's what I'm saying. You said that these were already codes.

No, these were not. That was the challenge. The requirements that we're talking about are not existing in the current code. by which Nell's Acres was designed and approved. The code lacks these types of standards. Hence, that's why I think, in part, why this issue has come up to address and make sure that this doesn't be a continuing pattern for future developments. Yeah, go ahead, Commissioner Krebs.

With regard to Nell's Acres, we are not going to leave you behind. We do not want to repeat this again. First of all, these homes are not cheap homes. They're very expensive homes. A half a million to three quarters of a million dollars for these homes. A lot of investment. And it's a beautiful, I mean, wonderful people live in this community and they deserve better from us. We're going to give you better.

That's what I wanted to hear.

We're going to see whatever we can do legally. We're going to look at the documents. We're going to see, make sure the bond is held until we make sure everything is done that we can require them to do. Many good developers will come back and fix things. We'll have to talk about the stormwater management ponds. We're going to talk about extra parking because we can't just leave you hanging and say you can't have any parking. It's wrong. It was wrong to do. That's one reason I'm here today out of my retirement is because of what has happened with our zoning in the Freedom Area. It's not right. That's why we have the consultant. That's why our team's going to do it. And I'm not going to wait until they do. So thank you. Um, two things. If you put your email address down, we're going to send you a copy of the presentation here. So you can remember you don't take notes and a copy of those standards that are given to the planning commission so that you can be looking at them. I want to look at them too carefully and see what they say, and then you can follow it and you can read exactly what the recommendations are. The design, the universal design. We are definitely going to require some of those things. The question is how many of them, some of them don't cost any more money to do. putting in slip-resistant floors, making sure you have higher toilets, maybe a little bit more, but that's something standard that people like to have is higher toilets so that you don't have to have a push thing to go up and down. Zero level of shower, getting into a shower. There's certain things we're going to require, and they don't necessarily cost more. I'm hoping we require them. The lever handles doesn't cost any more than a doorknob. Many developers automatically do it, and some of them don't, but we're just going to make sure they do. If they were in Howard County, they would do it. If they were in Frederick... or if they were in gettysburg they would do it pretty much every community has a universal design and we're going to make sure that that occurs here in carroll county as well because we're not We're not a hoodunk little county. We're a good county, and for $750,000 or $600,000 in a house, these developers get extra density to be able to build these communities. So instead of building 20 houses on downed acres, they were able to build 129 houses. So they got an extra 109 houses out of it. There should be something in return for all of that investment that you get. So we're going to work on yours specifically, but thank you for being the poster child of what we need to fix, but we're also going to try to see what we can do for you. I mean it. Thank you.

My name is Therese Parker. We've lived in Carroll County for about 25 years. We raised her son. We loved what Carroll County represented, valued. I had a town home in Freedom Park. Then I developed pelvic issues and really wasn't anything around at that time that I could think of. I needed one floor. So we moved out to New Windsor. but we missed Sykesville, we missed that, and our son thought it was another country going up to New Windsor. So we came back, and there were condos, and we were really excited, and it was Liberty Place. And we still love it. It's nice. But I think I've heard about the developers. having a little bit about the realtors. But I think a very important part that needs to be addressed is what pulls us all into these communities, what realtors promise you, what's put up on the signs. Liberty Place was advertised as active adult. There's no amenities. There's very little said walking trails. When I was growing up, a sidewalk was not a walking trail. It was like in woods or nature. Yeah, that's Liberty Place. The first building, the air conditioning, they've struggled with. And before things were signed off, we put it in writing that the outside unit, there was an electrical storm. It was taken out, took out some of the... TVs and everything and we found out that the other buildings had a different code than what the first building was So you would think that the builder with all the money would go back and address that or airtime It was an ongoing now with they've switched to a different management company just sort of fell through the cracks and maybe we didn't spend 600 but we spent anywhere from They offered them in the fours. So I think a big thing is they advertised a pickleball court. There was fire pits. There was two gazebos. None of that came. And we were actually told recently that Ryan Holmes was going to give $12,000 for the two gazebos. But we sort of pitched to the board that instead of the... use it to the gazebos that I don't think people would use. There's not really any really places for them. Some of the people didn't even know when we moved in there that there's two fees. We're the only condo in this area that has an association fee plus a condo fee. but we were told that we were actually told by one of the realtors that it normally wasn't that way but that Ryan Holmes had set it up that way because they didn't want to have to pay certain fees I don't understand it but the other condos We don't have Revell or these are strictly condos. The other condos in this area have like $100 some less monthly fee because there's just a condo. There's not a HOA. So we're paying all this money. We have no amenities. So we recommend it. If Ryan Holmes is going to give that money, they should just put it back. Maybe there are legal firms. Put it back to just one condo. It would save us money. And they also told us that the... Echo Ponds was going to have the landscaping. It was going to be real nice. And of course it's not. And so I just think these signs are up and they're advertising things. And then you have the developers. And I had a fight even for them to fix a cracked sidewalk. They're making all this money and they're promising all these things that are bringing us in these communities. And there's nothing holding the realtors up to deliver it. And there's nothing holding... up to certain things. And you're talking about codes. Well, is there somebody there that can ensure that each time something's built, it's the highest codes? Because if it's not, a lot of times, even though they're making a lot of money, they do do a lot of things good, but sometimes they're just going to do minimal. They're not going to do certain things unless you make them.

Well, they certainly should be going by the building code that sits required in the county and having inspections before a building permit is issued. So I personally can't answer that question, but that would be an issue for the follow-up. But on the amenity part, you're echoing some of the things, the recommendations and policy, specific policy changes. They must have a – Yeah, and I think that would be a good point because part of it is we have in there that for all the amenities, they must have a maintenance plan and a maintenance guarantee for those amenities to make sure, are you putting them in? We required you to give a report. to describe the amenities, the locations, and the substance of why those are in. It's really, I think it's good to make sure that that report is some requirement of how you're advertising and promoting because it's tied back instead of false advertising and not providing for them. Yeah, we went to Liberty Place, too, and it's a nice-looking product on the outside, but you thought there's not even a gazebo, there's not a sidewalk. But Winifred Manor, I don't know if anybody knows about that. I talked about it.

They have a meeting.

Yeah, they've even got a gazebo. It's built years ago with no standards. So again, there's developers that have the eye for it and do the right thing. And then there's those that, unfortunately, are not doing the right thing. And I think we've seen a couple examples. So again, we're definitely, I think, attuned. I think some of those other HOA association condo fees I'll have to go back to the county and figure out how is that regulated at all, if it can be. Yeah, that's a good question. So some of these things are a little bit more intangible from a county standpoint, but certainly concerns if I were a consumer. I pay a mortgage too.

I was just brought up. You believe what people tell you. So you go. And I think we found out afterwards that like some realtors are going to, they do a lot of good things, but sometimes you're going to be told, or it's right there on their signs, but I hear you might come in at the beginning, but by the end of the neighborhood,

I had a great builder because probably 10 years after he left, I had an issue with my girder across my garage. It was literally rotting because they didn't put a piece of flashing up. He came back and said, yeah, my subcontractor messed up, and he replaced it. He had the subcontractor. They called him up. So there's good ones, and then there's ones that aren't so good. So believe me. Nobody has $30,000, $50,000 sitting in a bank account to pay for these things, right? Maybe somebody does, but I sure don't. I've got kids getting out of college. Great comments. I think a lot of the comments that I've heard tonight are spot on, and they reinforce what we've already done, our research and due diligence. And I would encourage everybody, like Daphne said and Commissioner Krebs echoed, GO OUT, START LOOKING AT THE INFORMATION THAT'S ON THE WEBSITE. I THINK THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION TO PUSH THAT OUT IF YOU COULD PROVIDE AN EMAIL ADDRESS. IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS, IT'S GOING TO BE, AGAIN, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE DOWN THE ROAD YEARS AWAY. LITERALLY IN THE NEXT, two months three months we're moving through this process so that we're not holding up any more developments that are under deferral get these code amendments done and then new projects coming in are going to be built by these standards so your input to make sure we got our t's crossed and i's dotted and i think especially for the fire and deputy fire chiefs make sure We're getting the information because I wrote that with you guys in mind on the chapter 91 amendments for fire access. So hopefully you like it, but we appreciate your comments on it too. Yes, sir. Here's a gentleman in the back.

because because this everything you proposed is just Oh, retirement community 101 stuff. I agree. All right? I agree. And not one of them came forward with anything that approached any of this. They came forward with plans that were drawn by a high school drafting student to cram as many lots on a piece of property as you could possibly put. They did not care about what the roads do, Nell's Acres. Whoever drew those roads knows that fire stations have to go down there. They made a decision somewhere in a meeting that we're not going to do that because we're going to put that extra $10,000 in our pocket. So I don't feel sorry for any of these people, and I'm hoping that the commissioners, all five of them, have the...

you know whatever you want to call it to stand up to them and say no because you know better they know better yeah yeah there's a couple plans i know uh from the planning commission and commissioners i won't speak on that part of it but i was in in those meetings when i was giving my presentations that those developers have asked to be grandfathered in but that's a policy i know they want to be grandfathered in but they knew better when they put and that's where between the planning and zoning commission of evaluating those and i know the One gentleman back there is asking a lot of good, hard questions, right, Planning Commissioner? But also coming forward in terms of the Board of Commissioners.

Nothing but pure greed, taking advantage of the poor planning that we do in this county. And I've seen one example. I've been here since 1979, came out here and was promised all kind of wonderful things. None of them happened. Everything's been conditional use to whatever they wanted, the developers wanted to do. And it's been nothing but greed from the developers and previous commissioners, I think saw us as a piggy bank to fund whatever they wanted to do. And it's this, I'd have no sympathy for the St. John's property who ever put that plan forward. That's a juvenile plan with no effort to worry about the quality of life of the people who live around it or the people who have to live in that community. So I don't have any sympathy for them being deferred forever. Understood.

Thank you. Any others?

I just want to address the grandfathering. There are five projects right now in Freedom District that have plans in. And they had plans in last year. And the very day that I got in office, I said, we're going to do something about this. It took us, it was delayed for reasons it doesn't really matter. Every developer knew that we were going to change this. I think they know that they couldn't do this in Frederick and they couldn't do it in any other county, but they could do it here. That's not happening anymore. I'm going to do everything I can. They're not being grandfathered. They must meet the standards for safety of our roads. We must have parking. The other thing that's going to come up, we are not taking just six in a row, five feet apart. You can't even walk through these housing. That's not good design for $600,000, $750,000, a million dollars some of these are going to be. That's not acceptable in here in Carroll County. It's not acceptable here in freedom. And we need to say that our code needs to say that we didn't talk about drip lines, drip lines. I think we allowed up to six strip lines, five drip lines. That means how many units, how many spouts can come down and then you have how many feet in between. Usually you have to have a certain amount of space so you can get people through there. You can get a truck through there. And for some reason, that's not, that's something we have to change this to. There has to be space between these units. That way you'd have some room for some green space. You'd have some room for some landscaping. All you got to do is look around at some of these beautiful communities. It can be done and it is done and we're going to require it and we're going to make it happen here in Carroll. We're going to try to fix it for you guys because our seniors, it's how we treat our seniors is this is a, basic moral thing, and I think people that age deserve this, our community deserves it, and we're not going to grandfather men. I'm not going to grandfather men. We have five of us. I think the pressure, hopefully, on the business community of doing it right like they would do it anywhere else is going to be probably great enough to make them want to change these things and put a good project in, because there's a new sheriff in town, and I represent you all, and this is what people in my community want. And I'm sorry that I'm sorry that everybody's stuck in the middle of moving forward with these things, but it's just not acceptable. And we're going to work with the developers to expedite their plans. Once we get it straight, we're trying to, we were upfront with them. If they moved forward at their own risk, they might same with the storage facility. Sorry about that. Isn't we're not about storage facilities, but they knew they were moving forward at their own risk and we will do everything. I will do everything I can legally. Um, I don't think some of these things were passed appropriately or legally when they were passed the zoning codes. I have records in my basement that go back through all of these things. And I'm going to go, you take everything I can to prove that the zoning was not done properly. The changes were not done properly during the last master plan. And people were not involved in the process when all this stuff changed because it changed a few years ago. So we're going to fight that with all of you with your backing. Um, don't give up. And I thank you and just let our staff know and let the developers back there know we're going to do everything we can to get a good product. You're going to still make money. You're going to have something to be proud of. Put your name on it. And we're all going to make out well. It's going to be a great community project that we can be proud of.

All right.

Well, I think if no one else has comments, we'll let you all go home. Enjoy your evening, beautiful evening, and thank you. Again, if you haven't signed in, please sign in. Also, make sure if you provide your email address for future contacts. Safe travels.