City Council - Regular Meeting

All right. Thank you. Good evening and welcome everyone. Thank you very much for taking the time to be here tonight, whether you're in person or on zoom and for participating in this very important process. This is the June 30, 2026 environmental public scoping meeting for the farm project, which is proposed at 5, 8, 8, 5 Carpentria Avenue. There are no speaker slips, but everyone will get a chance to speak tonight if they'd like to give input. But before we get to that, I'm going to explain who we are, why we're here, and provide a brief overview of the project. So my name is Mindy Fogg. I'm a planner here with the city's community development department. And with me from the city is our community development director, Nick Bobroff. and our environmental consultant, Mike Harden, with ESA. Also assisting us tonight is our legal counsel, Cody Sargent. Our principal planner, Brett McNulty, is going to be monitoring the Zoom. Our senior planner, Cindy Souder, is outside watching the overflow area if anyone needs anything out there. And here in the hearing room also is our long-range planner, Megan Musoff. who will help when we get to the in-person public comment part. So a big part of what we do in the community development department is process development applications such as the one submitted for the farm project. In that process, we prepare environmental analysis and gather public input before development project is presented to the decision makers. and to be extra clear, we are not the decision makers, nor are we the developers. Our job is to be impartial analysts that gather and summarize information for the public and for the hearing bodies so that decision makers have the information they need before making any future decisions on the project. So this is not a decision-making hearing. The primary purpose of this meeting is to hear from you before the draft EIR is prepared. In particular, we would like to hear about environmental concerns that should be evaluated in the EIR or suggested mitigation measures or project alternatives that would alleviate environmental impacts. Extra copies of the EIR notice of preparation are available here in the room, or you can access that on the project web page, which is available through this QR code. We do appreciate everyone's patience this evening. We know there's significant interest in this project and our goal is to make sure everyone who wishes to speak has an opportunity to do so. So as always, please be courteous and respectful throughout this meeting. Whether you agree or disagree with a speaker, please show respect and allow them to speak without interruption. Please refrain from cheering, applauding, booing, or demonstrations of support or opposition so that everyone has an equal opportunity to be heard. And if you do provide comments, please direct them to us up here and not to others in the audience. This meeting is being recorded, so if you miss any of it, it will be available on our city YouTube channel and there will be a link on the Farm Project webpage. When we get to the public comment portion of this meeting, we'll first call on anyone here in person whose comments can be stated in a minute or less. So if you have a time constraint or just a quick comment or question, We'll hear from you first. Then we'll hear from the people on Zoom who have one-minute comments. We'll then proceed to take two-minute commenters with the final group having a maximum of three minutes each. And while each person can only speak once tonight, there will be more opportunities in future meetings. And in addition, you can still submit written comments on this early EIR process through July 10th. And we'll get to that at the end of the presentation. So now on to our main presentation, which will include a brief project description, the CEQA or environmental review process, and how to provide comments. As shown here, the project site is located at 5885 Carpentria Avenue on two parcels that comprise 27.53 acres. And this aerial view of the property looks south toward the ocean from Carpentria Avenue, and it shows the Tea Time Golf driving range and the existing farmland that's north of the train tracks. To the east is the Nature Preserve, and to the west is the Skate Park and Chevron decommissioning site. And the Harbor, Seal, Rookery, and Hall Out areas are located south and southwest of the site. The proposed project involves the creation of 191 new dwelling units with 94 of those units to be townhomes and 97 to be single family detached homes. 20% of the units would be deed restricted for qualified low income households. The project would be accessed from two vehicular entry points from Carpentria Avenue. Each unit would have a two car garage, and there would be an additional 107 visitor parking spaces. There are three pocket parks proposed in addition to active open space in the 200-foot setback north of the railroad and passive open space or preserve south of the tracks. Landscaping would include preserved sycamores and the windrow of trees along the western edge And the project also proposes over 200 new trees along with additional native and non-native shrubs. A very detailed project description is in that notice of preparation. But this slide shows an overview of the project site plan with Carpinteria Avenue on the left side of your screen. The darker orange units depict the proposed townhomes, and the lighter yellow units depict the proposed single-family homes. On the right side of the screen is that proposed open space that straddles the railroad tracks. And this slide also shows the project with an emphasis on the areas to be restored, preserved, or landscaped. So the bottom of the site plan shows the open space north and south of the railroad tracks. And the other areas of green around the future residences are the pocket parks and landscaped areas. And finally, this slide shows two of the renderings, with the top one depicting the townhomes that you would see looking southwest from Carpentria Avenue, and the bottom picture depicting the single-family homes you would see looking north from the railroad tracks. So again, very brief overview and more detailed plan set and information on the project webpage, but I'll now hand it over to Mike who will talk about the CEQA process, or environmental review process.

All right. Thank you, Mindy. Hello, and good evening. Again, my name is Mike Harden. I am a principal environmental planner with Environmental Science Associates, or ESA. ESA is working with the city staff to prepare the Environmental Impact Report, or EIR, pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act, or CEQA, for the project. This slide provides an overview of the purpose of CEQA. As shown herein, the CEQA process is intended to inform decision makers and the public of a project's environmental effects or impacts. It is the intent of CEQA to provide an open, transparent process by which the public is actively involved throughout the environmental review process. Tonight's scoping meeting is being held to solicit community input on what issues should be analyzed in the project's EIR, which we'll cover more in the following slides. The project's EIR will analyze and disclose the environmental impacts of the project. Further, the EIR will identify ways to avoid or reduce significant environmental impacts through mitigation measures or alternatives to the project. As shown on this slide, to kick off the environmental review process for the project, the city has provided notices for the public to attend the scoping meeting tonight. Your comments tonight will help ensure that all relevant environmental issues and impacts pertaining to the project are fully analyzed in the project's EIR. Following up on Mindy's presentation, the comments to be provided tonight should be limited to and focus on what should be studied in the EIR. Again, we are at the beginning of the environmental review process of the EIR preparation. The EIR will ultimately inform the city's decision makers on the environmental impacts of the project when they are considering whether or not to approve the project. This slide provides an overview of the various stages of the EIR process. As shown, the City has prepared a Notice of Preparation, or NOP, of the project's EIR. This scoping meeting is being held during the 30-day public review period of the NOP. Following the 30-day NOP period, ESA, in collaboration with the City, will prepare the draft EIR for the project. Another public notice will be prepared to inform the public of the availability to review the EIR over a 45-day period. During that time, the public is encouraged and invited to provide comments on the draft EIR. Responses to those comments will be included in a final EIR. Then city staff will prepare findings that summarize the impacts evaluated in the EIR and provide project recommendations to the city's decision makers based in part on the EIR findings. Public hearings will be held to again solicit input on the project. Following receipt of public comments received during the hearings, the city will make a decision whether or not to approve the project and certify the EIR. At the conclusion of the environmental review process, the city will file a notice of determination or NOD with the county and state after such decisions are made. Here we show the issues we are assuming will have less than significant impacts associated with the project, which include impacts regarding mineral resources and wildfire impacts. While these issues will be analyzed in the EIR, because their impacts are minimal, they will not be fully evaluated to the extent of other issues which we'll show on the next slide. This slide presents a list of those issues that will be fully evaluated in the EIR. And as you can see, you can read them up here, but I'll go through them quickly. These topics include aesthetics. Aesthetics are impacts associated with scenic vistas, coastal views, scenic resources on the project site. agricultural resources, air quality impacts, biological resources, both plant and animal species will be evaluated as part of this issue, cultural resources, including issues such as archaeological resources, energy impacts, geology and soils, greenhouse gas emissions, hazards and hazardous materials, hydrology and water quality, land use and planning, noise, population and housing, public services. Public services include impacts to your police, fire services as well as school impacts, impacts to libraries as well. Impacts regarding recreation. transportation tribal cultural resources the city will be conducting a full consultation effort with Native American tribes in the area that have expressed interest in the project area and last of all utilities and service systems so these are impacts that have to do with water supply wastewater impacts the sewer system and solid waste impacts are the primary issues covered therein So as you can see, this is a very comprehensive list to be evaluated in the EIR. I consider this a very full-scoped EIR in terms of EIRs we regularly prepare. The issues will be evaluated by a host of technical experts in their respective fields. This is a helpful list to think of when providing your comments tonight. We want to hear your thoughts and issues of concern you may have about the environmental impacts of the project, which will expectantly be within the scope of impacts within these broad issue categories. And with that, I'm gonna turn it back over to Mindy. Thank you very much. Thank you. Oops, wrong way. And I did.

Okay, so we want to encourage everyone who is here or listening from home to provide verbal comments and questions tonight, but also to submit written comments to us by July 10th. The easiest way to send us your written comments is by email at thefarmproject at carpentriaca.gov, or you can deliver or mail them to the City Hall at 5775 Carpinteria Avenue. And before we move to public comment, I'll just say one more time that the most constructive input during this stage in the environmental process is to provide environmental concerns that should be evaluated in the EIR. or suggested mitigation or project alternatives that would alleviate those impacts. And again, we're not making any decisions here or taking any action tonight. The comments received tonight and throughout the comment period will be considered as we prepare that draft EIR. And so we ask again that everyone help us maintain respectful atmosphere so we can hear every speaker and complete the meeting as efficiently as possible. We are going to ask first if anyone here in the room has a one minute comment or less and would like to go first. Yes, you've raised your hand, you can come on up. And we're gonna do a timer. There we go.

Great.

All right, we're getting a line of people for quick comments. Excellent. Yes, Megan is going to be the head of that line. And yes, go ahead.

Thank you for allowing me to speak. My name is Omid Port, and I'm a regional supervisor with People Self-Help Housing. Sebastian Carano, our senior property manager at Chapel Corps Apartments, wasn't able to be here tonight, so I'll be reading his comments on his behalf. My name is Sebastian Carano. and I'm the senior property manager at Chapel Court Apartments and Carpinteria with People's Self-Help Housing. Chapel Court is a 28-unit USDA property built specifically for farmworker families. My residents are the same families who wake up before sunrise to work our fields season after season, year after year. Every day I see what stable, affordable housing means for them. Parents who no longer have to choose between rent and groceries, kids who can stay in the same school district instead of moving every few months, and workers who can show up for the harvest because they're not worried about losing their home. Carpinteria simply does not have enough housing to meet the needs of the community, and that is why I support this project. The long wait list at Chapel Court reflects that reality every single day. Please consider what new affordable housing would mean for the families who keep this community running. Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your comment. Next up, Mr. Dickens.

Hi, my name is Bart Dickens. So environmental impact, you know, I think aesthetics on your list was first and I think it should be first. On a totally unrelated subject, I was driving from the Denver airport through vast nothingness on my way to Denver. And there were horrible, horrible new projects being built. And then I opened up the thing and I saw the picture of what's going in here. And I thought, oh my goodness, they stole the plans from the ugly buildings in the middle of nowhere. We're on the edge of the Pacific Ocean. It's such a beautiful resource, and once we pave over it, it's gone forever. So please keep the aesthetics on the very, very top of the list. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Hi. My name is Ryan. I'm here tonight just to make it noted that we're not just deciding on 191 homes that are going to be built. I think that your eventual decision is going to be whether to accept permanent public safety obligations, taxpayer costs, and irreversible impacts environmentally and to the city for the long term. As stated in the project's conditions of approval, this development requires the city to provide a pedestrian crossing of the railroad tracks and if approved only by Union Pacific. If that approval is not granted, the city is supposed to provide an underground crossing instead. Either option places longterm installation, maintenance, safety, liability responses, liability responsibilities, and significant environmental impacts on the bluff area below the tracks or wherever we're going to have people crossing. In addition to the 191 homes, it'll permanently increase vehicle traffic, pedestrian traffic, ambient noise, and light along via real.

That's your one minute. You did pick the one minute comment.

That was one?

Yeah. All right, I needed two. Sorry, I got to get through all the one minute comments. So for everybody in line, it's just one minute right now. If you have longer, we're going to get to you later.

Good afternoon. My name is and I am the property manager at Casas de las Flores with People's Health Health Housing. Casas de las Flores is a 43 unit affordable housing community here in Carpinteria. In my time as a property manager, I've seen so many stories of residents for whom affordable housing was the start of a new chapter and new to begin again in a clean, safe environment that they could finally call home. I've watched single parents stabilize their families, seniors lived out their later years with dignity, and residents go from surviving to actually building a future. But the need far outweighs what we can offer. Right now, there are 457 people on the waiting list across my property, and 457 people or families waiting for the same chance as a fresh start that our current residents were given. I urge you to support the affordable housing in Carpinteria. Thank you for your time and your service.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is and I'm the senior property manager at Dahlia Court Apartments with People Self-Help Housing. Dahlia Court is an 88-unit affordable housing community that goes beyond just providing a roof over our residents' heads. Our residents work in all sectors of Carpinteria, with many employed at local nurseries that are such a big part of this community. We also have a on-site social worker. and a learning center that runs an after-school education program for our kids, a program that also welcomes young people from around the broader community, not just our residents. These on-site services make a real difference for our families here, connecting them to resources, supporting our children's education, and helping them build stability beyond just housing. I have seen firsthand the impact affordable housing makes for our working families. It gives them the foundation they need to focus on their jobs, their kids, and their future, instead of just trying to keep a roof over their heads. There are 131 applicants on our wait list, and that's the number that tells a big story. The need for affordable housing in Carpinteria is high, and it continues to grow as families struggle to keep up with rising rents and limited supply of homes. Please wrap up. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

All right.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak. I'm Ken Tregaro, also from People's Self-Help Housing. I think that's all of us now. But since one of your topics is to study population and housing, we wanted to make sure we got some input on what we're seeing for the affordable component. We've developed over 3,500 units all over the Central Coast. In Carpinteria, we've got four properties, as you heard. We've been trying to do more, but it's been really difficult to find feasible parcels. 39 units is proposed here. We're hopeful that we'll be a part of producing those if this is approved But since there is and that's a good number, but since there is so much demand We would encourage you to study the opportunity to increase that some way maybe there's additional parcels out there that could be part of this and So that's what we're hoping for. Thanks.

Thank you

Hi, my name's Paul Delzio. I'm a resident of Carpinteria. I was going to talk a little bit more on the business benefits of the development, but for EIR, aesthetics is obviously important. The revenue and the tax base that this could generate would certainly help public services, such as the schools, recreation, police department, and others. So I think that's a good benefit that's on your environmental impact list. I also think it would help with local businesses in the community so people can shop locally, people can go to restaurants locally, people can spend more time in the community versus leaving the CARP area to go outside for those services. So I guess for the EIR, I think thinking about recreational and public service enhancements would be a good benefit of the project. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Patricia French. Human disturbances are one of the greatest threats to our already declining Harborsfield colony, our most precious resource in this community. In allowing a project of this size and creating direct access from the farm, pedestrian traffic will exponentially increase. At present, the rookery overlook can accommodate safely, at most, a little over a dozen people at a time. It's only 15 by 15. The bluffs in this area are seriously eroding and becoming more dangerous for beach access. The city should consider liability issues, the needed cost of a full-time ranger, and a surety bond at least. The city should consider whether the developers giving a perpetual easement and allowing the four-acre non-buildable land to be counted as its open space is really a gift or a burden. Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Cindy Steen. I'm a resident of Carpinteria and I'm a member of the Carpinteria Seal Watch and I'm really glad that the case for protecting the seals was made very eloquently. I would just like to add that we did, the steering committee met with the developers a few months ago. And we were told that the affordable element of this project are going to be in the $600,000 to $650,000 range. And I just don't see that being affordable housing for farm workers or health workers or the people that work in our restaurants. And so nobody would deny that we don't need more affordable housing, but this is not it.

Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Alana Charles, and as a native of Carpinteria, and as a cultural anthropologist and a seasoned archaeologist, you mentioned cultural heritage, and you mentioned the geology or geography, and I have a hard time believing that you would actually have the amount of resources to hire the proper people to go over that surface area. It's not just a matter of LIDAR. I mean, you can't just use technology to penetrate below the surface level to actually see what's underneath that. And if you should come across anything, that would require true professionals to come onto this land and recover and retrieve those items. So I should hope that you do speak to the local Chumash and do some historical research on exactly who's still related to those members. Thank you. Thank you. One minute comment?

Come on up. Yes, hi, I'm Lee Sparks, and I'm a seventh generation farmer here in Carpinteria. And I just have to state that I think this particular developer is not the best steward for this very rare property. There's way too many environmental concerns, population, pollution, light pollution. And then I do just want to state on, I'm a local businesswoman as well, that these homes that are $650,000 for our very important farm workers, they would have to make over $8,000 a month to just qualify for that house. So I don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, anyone else here in the room or outside that has a one-minute comment? Hi.

I'm Jane Benefield, speaking as a resident. I just want to make sure the juxtaposition of the railroad and this development is very carefully studied. We can't just walk across the tracks. We do that, but it's illegal. And I don't know how you're going to make that work, but I'd like to see it examined. Thank you.

Thank you. Come on up if you still have, you can only speak once. Okay, one minute. And also, if you're on Zoom, you can raise your hand now if you have a one-minute comment, and we'll get to you in just a moment.

Thank you. My name is Amrit Assam. I'm a resident here. I want to make sure that the EIR looks at how you can minimize the bulk and mass, the visual intrusion of the structures as well as the pathways, as well as the garages, you know, that go into the bluffs, how the community design criteria that we have is not in sync with what the project stands for and the aesthetics are very important. So basically density, bulk, and mass needs to be considered seriously. Thank you. Thank you very much.

All right, I'm not seeing anyone else lined up in person, so I think we'll take one minute comments on Zoom. Brett, has anyone raised their hand?

We have two people that have raised their hand. Linda, I have a, Hanneken, I have enabled your microphone.

Thank you. I'm Linda Honigman, an affordable housing advocate. The farm project appears to offer two of the much needed pieces missing from our future housing puzzle, a chance for workers in low income households to purchase a home. and a promise of new housing that provides five bedrooms and parking for large families and three-bedroom townhomes. I understand the purpose of the environmental review, and in this case it is doubly important to have a robust process that can address all of the community's concerns. Thank you. Thank you.

Dustin, you're now able to talk your microphone. You need to unmute on your end.

Hello. Hi. I'm giving my public comment on behalf of the Santa Barbara South Coast Chamber of Commerce, representing 650 businesses across the South Coast. The Chamber's interest in this project comes down to one issue that we hear about constantly from our member businesses, workforce housing. It's one of the most pressing economic and social issues on the South Coast right now. Carpenteria's businesses are part of what makes Carpenteria special, and so is its strong sense of community. But that's hard to hold onto when the people who work here and the kids who grow up here can't afford to stay. When that happens, we don't just lose employees, we lose families who have been part of Carpenteria for generations. The farm would add important housing stock to the city, particularly 37 for sale affordable units. We ask that the city keep engaging carefully with this project and work with the applicant on a project that genuinely works for Carpinteria, its workforce, its families, and the community as a whole. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Any other Zoom speakers for one comment? I mean, one minute comment.

There are no more.

Okay, we'll move on to two-minute comments. Is there anyone here in person that has a two-minute comment? Okay, since there was a learning curve, I'll let you do your, finish your comment from earlier. The one exception.

Do you want me to start from?

No, no, you can just kind of complete your thought. Sorry about that.

Okay, so where I left off was about the railroad. So we'd like the city to consider the environmental liability and safety risks that the city is required to provide with a railroad crossing if Union Pacific grants, and if they don't, then the city will have to provide one under the tracks, which proposes significant environmental impacts for erosion and all other kinds of things. In addition to this, Pedestrian traffic, noise and light along Via Real and as managers of the Miramar Hotel warned us in our last town hall meeting, the demands on public infrastructure, public safety and city resources will be an additional huge demand. The project will also significantly utilize the Bluffs as a neighborhood access route to the beach. Hundreds of new residents, along with their families and friends, will increase foot traffic, place a greater demand on the protected open space through erosion, litter, and daily use. Today, children experience those bluffs primarily through organized and supervised educational programs that teach stewardship of our bluffs. The development changes that with virtually no usable front or back yards. These bluffs will become an extension of neighborhood recreation. increasing environmental impacts while also increasing pedestrian activity around Via Real and all over the Bluffs and across the railroad crossing. It's more than just a housing decision. It's a decision to accept new public safety risks, ongoing maintenance costs, and permanent city obligations and taxpayer liabilities. So my alternative ask is that you reject the project completely. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. I know that you had gotten up next. Do you have a two-minute comment? Yeah. Great. And then we'll go to this side.

My name is Christy Boyd and I live at 1200 Baylard. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the farm project as currently proposed. We have been tasked with speaking to the specifics of the plan as it relates to Carpinteria's general plan and local coastal plan. I will direct my comments to planning and land use and recreation. While scrolling through the many policy numbers and consistencies, I found myself overwhelmed with the number of inconsistencies. So I asked my computer to tell me the numbers and the percentages of the consistencies and inconsistencies. Hold on to your hat. Out of 366 identified policy listings regarding the farm development, only 32 were deemed consistent with our local planning documents. The inconsistencies came in at 91%. To note, just two of the policy requirements. Public access and recreation. There's virtually no coastal access. All of the required improvements such as a bluff trail, a shoreline type park, a harbor seal blind, railroad crossing, and public parking for bluffs visitors are non-existent. Land use and community design element. The PUD designation requires a clustering of the 191 planned homes to maximize view corridors and open space. There is no clustering, only rows of houses. The view corridors are non-existent. The buildings are dull, repetitive, and with no nod to the natural look of the Bluffs. The city's own review and staff found this project inconsistent in 334 of the standards. The farm project is grossly inconsistent with our general plan, the local coastal plan, the Bluffs master program, and our zoning codes. I ask myself, what is the point of having and updating our general plan and local coaster plan if we are not using them to guide us when developments come in front of us? Citizens for the Bluffs has repeatedly asked the property owner to give us a fair asking price for this much loved property. We have not found him to be forthcoming yet. Please, Mr. Brenneke, save yourself time and money and allow us the opportunity to purchase and save for future generations this must beloved and soulful property.

Thank you. Please, no applause, please. Let's remember our meeting guidelines. Thank you. Ms. Milhew.

Hi, I'm Susan Millhew. I have concerns about this project's impacts on the harbor seals, which are federally protected marine mammals. But I address primarily noise. A colony of harbor seals in Pacific Grove was exposed to roadwork and the construction of a resort in similar proximity of the farm to our harbor seals. Their colony dropped immediately, dramatically, and gradually recovered, but only one third of the original counts. Sound, pitch, and decibel readers must be available for permitted noise levels. The extremes of sound will impact the seal's auditory and tactile senses by vibrations. Noise cannot be allowed to mask the very high-pitched calls of harbor seal pups, and most social behavior, and specifically mother pup recognition, is maintained through vocal signaling. The seals must not be frightened off the beach during their highly vulnerable molting period of summer. Year-round anthropogenic noise creates disturbance and can mask the seal's detection of both land and ocean predators, interfere with their behavior, mating, feeding, and communication. Publications are available which indicate noise impact for marine mammal populations with high site fidelity cannot be mitigated. Small localized populations such as our harbor seals are especially vulnerable because they may literally have nowhere to go and experience harm.

Thank you for your comments. Do we have anyone else for a two-minute comment?

Great.

Hey, there. My name is Scout, and I'm a Carpinteria resident. And today, I just wanted to note that I just want to talk about my experience on the Bluffs. And my experience is that it's this open space with a lot of, grand views, and we have animals, specifically the harbor seals that were just talked about. I've heard about burrowing owls. And I would like it to be studied, the impacts of noise and light on those specific animals, but also just to address that the experience for a human also on the bluffs and for open spaces, you know, this kind of escape from reality and just this place to breathe and experience the ocean and experience the hills and the mountains. And with a development right next to our open space, it really just impacts that experience and adds not just people and houses to the area, but it just brings a lot more traffic to the trails and to the open space. It really doesn't serve as open space what it is. Then I would also like to just note that there is a development out there that I think really does this well. I think it's one to look at and it's called Sea Ranch and it's up in Northern California. But it's an example of a development that really respects and honors the place and the land. you know, just the place I would say with the animals and the humans. And I would urge you all and the developers to use that as an example of a development that is successful at doing that. And that's all I have to say, but I would just propose rejecting this project and choosing to bring affordable housing projects to the city, but choose to use already developed land rather than undeveloped land. Thank you.

Thank you. Do we have anyone else lined up that would like to give a two-minute comment or less? Do we have anyone on Zoom? Please raise your hand if you'd like to give two-minute comment or less.

Henry, you've been allowed to speak.

Hello. Henry is the name on this computer. My name is actually Delaney. I am a state park employee, naturalist, and an invertebrate zoology curator. The Santa Barbara Bluff coastline is one of the most biodiverse and productive ecosystems in the world. Incredible nutrient upwelling means we are still discovering new species regularly. This proposal, which wants to keep away from the tracks but also away from the bluff, doesn't have consideration for the fact that this bit of space that is claimed to be kept is not good enough. In reality, what this is doing is habitat fragmentation, something that decreases up to 75 percent of biodiversity consistently in every biome studied. It is a major killer of all rivers, and we need uninterrupted paths between the San Ynez Mountains and the ocean for proper nutrient cycling. Unfortunately, we already have a lot of interruptions, but we don't need just one more thing. The healthy movement patterns for terrestrial consumers, including keystone predators with wide territories who require these wide swaths of space, aren't going to get enough. Animals won't just go into a little set-aside space where they're supposed to be. They cannot react properly to a 200-sized unit concrete wall suddenly in the middle of their commute. It doesn't matter if you're not directly on the bluff or you're not directly eroding it. It's actively causing habitat fragmentation that interferes between the runoff and the animal movement between the land and the ocean, between the Santa Ynez to our Pacific. This will and already has caused catastrophic effects on the health of both terrestrial and marine ecosystems. We've seen this along the California coast before. It will not only scare off the seal colony here with the amount of noise, but it can also cause nutrient depletion. And we don't need just one more thing there. I believe it is important that we keep some swaths of land natural and uninterrupted, both for the animals' sake, the plants' sake, all of the biota, but for human enrichment as well. So I propose to reject this. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

There is no one else at this time.

OK, that's going to move us into our three minute comment period. Mr. Rhodes, I see you raised your hand first, but we'll start getting into three minute comments here in person.

Thank you, good evening, staff. My name is Ted Rhodes, as you know, a longtime resident of Carpinteria and past president of Citizens for the Carpinteria Bluffs. I would like to speak tonight regarding the visual and aesthetic impacts that this proposed housing development might have on the Carpinteria Bluffs Nature Preserve, especially pertaining to recreational users who visit the nature preserve to immerse themselves in the wonders and solace of nature. As outlined in the CEQA Appendix G Environmental Checklist form, thanks for... Finding that again for me, Nick. Under the heading of aesthetics, the ERA needs to address the following questions. Would this project have a substantial adverse effect on a scenic vista? Would this project substantially degrade the existing visual character or quality of the site and its surroundings? Would this project create a new source of substantial light or glare, which would adversely affect day or nighttime view in the area? views in the area indeed to address the potential visual and aesthetic impacts upon the existing scenic vistas and the existing character of the proposed development site and its surroundings i suggest that the scoping of the environmental impact report include a detailed analysis of the visual impacts upon the key view sheds of the carpentry bluffs nature preserve that are that are adjacent to the Tea Time property proposed for the development. This includes viewsheds along the Artist Passage and Mashoptional Meadow looking west, as well as a number of trails moving westward from the parking lot. to the tea, thyme, and agricultural field property line. As part of this analysis, I suggest that our city consultants and staff include photographs representing these current wide view sheds looking west from the nature preserve and additional photographs that would include the housing elevations superimposed on these photographs. In fact, providing such photographs taken of all of the key viewsheds related to this project will enable the city, the applicant, and our community to make a more complete analysis of the visual and aesthetic impacts of the project. And finally, my project alternative is to leave this open space alone and keep it in its existing uses. Thank you.

Thank you so much for your comments.

I am Leland Walmsley. I'm a landscape architect. I live here in Carpinteria for 25 years now. So they're... They're called Coastal Farmhouse, Coastal Cottage, Coastal Craftsman. So the only farm that's there they're gonna destroy, the open space will be gone as far as that farm goes. And Coastal Cottage, maybe. Coastal Craftsman, I don't think so. So my family is green and green, and that's not craftsman. I can tell you that right now. Craftsman is detail. Row housing is not detail-oriented. It's not quality. Every five or every few years it seems like some developer comes through from out of town, doesn't understand what Carpinteria and Santa Barbara County are all about. I noticed the architects on this project are from Irvine. Irvine is the sixth largest county in the United States. I'm sorry, not Irvine, Orange County. And we have 440,000 people in our county and the scale is absolutely wrong for Carpinteria. And As far as landscape architecture goes and some of the things that I'm licensed to do, the stormwater, it seems like every developer that comes through, they have less and less attention given to the stormwater. I believe this one has actually less than the last project that came through that was the big barn and the hotel and residential units. So they've got... Basically, they've got the retention of about a quarter of a million gallons of water. So it sounds like a lot, and it is. But our second storm that we had this past year was seven and a half inches, which is 340,000 gallons of water. Our fourth storm was... 6.8 inches, which is 311,000 gallons of water, and that's 90,000 gallons extra and 60,000 gallons additional that their retention pond can't handle. That water goes directly into the ocean. It overflows and goes directly into the ocean when it's not treated, and they have more water. Now, granted, they probably are working within the parameters of the one inch in one hour storm, which is what the county and most municipalities dictate. But this is a very, as everyone has said, a very environmentally sensitive area, and we can't take that risk. So what does that mean? That means pollutants, petrochemicals, glyphosates, all those things are gonna go down to the seal rookery and into the ocean that the park ranger was mentioning earlier is so critical to the environment. And the permeable paving that they, have on the plans, the token permeable paving. Most states now have disallowed permeable paving as a means of retaining stormwater because after three to five years, they stop working. So that's an additional load of water, stormwater, with petrochemicals from automobiles that's going to go into the stormwater and then into the ocean. Additional to that, the parking is super... you know, it's way under what it should be. Two cars per garage, three to four bedroom homes, that's three to five cars per home. Thank you. Thank you.

I'm Mike Wondolowski with the Carton River Valley Association. We'll be submitting a detailed comment letter, but tonight I want to highlight just one specific topic. The EIR must evaluate secondary and cumulative socioeconomic impacts that lead to physical environmental degradation. Specifically, the EIR must thoroughly evaluate the fact that the project's 152 market-rate units wildly fail to meet local workforce housing needs. We don't need $5 million to $10 million houses. Furthermore, the EIR must analyze the induced demand for below-market-rate housing created directly by the new market-rate housing construction. Market-rate developments necessitate an expansion of local service and maintenance workforce, and that workforce cannot afford $5 million to $10 million homes. The EIR must quantify this induced demand and evaluate how the woefully inadequate 39 affordable, i.e., below market units compares to that. In other words, the EIR needs to identify and quantify how much longer the people self-help housing wait list will be after the project is built than it is now. It must also include adequate mitigations to prevent exacerbating the local shortage of low-market housing and resulting environmental impacts of increased commuter traffic in vehicle miles traveled and the logical greenhouse gas emissions. An example of such a study of induced demand is shown in the City of Santa Barbara's study prepared by the Kaiser-Marson Associates in 2017 and updated in 2019 for their AUD program analysis. I'll stop my comments there. Following me will be representatives from the Environmental Defense Center who's representing Carpenteria Valley Association and Citizens for the Bluffs.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Hi. My name is Ryan Smith. I'm a legal fellow with the Environmental Defense Center. EDC represents the Carpenteria Valley Association and Citizens for the Carpenteria Bluffs regarding the farm project. We are here today at the scoping stage to emphasize the importance of adequate and robust CEQA review, and that the Environmental Impact Report, or EIR, for this project complies with the CEQA guidelines and relevant case law. Critically, the EIR must address the following three elements. First, the EIR must include a project description section which is not overly narrow. Second, it must include a reasonable range of alternatives, including a no-project alternative. And third, it must comply with the city's requirement for a specific plan. Beginning on the first element, under CEQA, an EIR's project description must contain an accurate statement of the objectives sought by the proposed project. A clear statement of objectives helps with the development of a reasonable range of alternatives. But if the statement is too narrow, it can rule out otherwise viable alternatives. For example, if the EIR frames its objectives as providing a specific number of housing units at a specific location, it will subvert the city's ability to evaluate a reasonable range of alternatives. The description must be broad enough to allow the city to consider alternatives, including locations that still comply with the housing element, while mitigating or avoiding environmental harm. We support the city staff's statement that the developers must prepare a specific plan. Once prepared, the EIR's project description must also be consistent with the specific plan's objectives. This brings me to the second element. I've mentioned the importance of alternatives, and the guiding principle in evaluating those alternatives is feasibility. Alternatives can include both onsite alternatives, which may include different uses of the same plot, or offsite alternatives, which may be similar uses at a different location. The EIR should also analyze a no project alternative, which would allow decision makers and the public to weigh the impacts of approving the proposed project against the impacts of not approving the proposed project. In this case, the inclusion of a no project alternative is critical to ensure that the impacts of the proposed development are clearly understood. Finally, any EIR must comply with the constraints set out in the specific plan. As I mentioned earlier, the city emphasizes that the developers must draft a specific plan. Once drafted, this plan must be considered in the project description, and all alternatives must be constrained by the plan as well. Thank you very much for your time. And next up, we have Brian Trotwine, also from EDC.

Thank you.

I'm Brian Troutwine, senior analyst with EDC. I'll discuss the EIR's environmental setting and impacts. The EIR must discuss the bluffs and the site's regional importance as context for the impacts. Focused protocol surveys for rare species, including Crotch's bumblebee, are needed. The natural diversity database and pedestrian surveys alone are insufficient. Birdview iNaturalist and local biologists must also be consulted. The EIR should analyze plants ranked one through four on the California rare plant rank list, and watch list and red list species should also be included. We recommend bat acoustic surveys and reptile cover board surveys. The EIR must document special status species habitats because they are ESHA. The EIR should evaluate the following construction impacts, removal, destruction, and degradation of habitat, including loss of rare species foraging, nesting, and overwintering habitat, and mortality by crushing by equipment, and operational impacts such as pesticides, removal of gopher burrows where rare bumblebees nest, vehicle strikes, predation by pets, increased human presence, wildlife collection, noise, lights, and collisions with buildings, between buildings and birds, invasive plants, and nuisance species and their effects on rare wildlife. Also, introduction of non-native wildlife such as pet reptiles, frogs, and birds that residents may release or that may escape. Stormwater could carry E. coli, Giardia, and Salmonella, as well as Toxoplasmosis in pet waste to the harbor seal rookery. The EIR should examine indirect and off-site impacts such as stormwater runoff. Growth-inducing effects include increasing demand for affordable housing for service workers and removal of the ESHA overlay. Aesthetics, the EIR must include numerous visual simulations from various public vantage points. Agriculture, the EIR must disclose impacts to agriculture on non-prime farmland. Air quality, there's the effect of Highway 101 on residents' health. Cultural resources, the city should complete tribal consultation early using local bands, not just the federally recognized tribes. Impacts to archeological sites and the cultural landscape should be class one. Land use planning impacts, the EIR must disclose the policy conflicts including but not limited to those identified in the city's February inconsistency letter as class one land use impacts. Recreation, the EIR should evaluate the loss of the tee time, impacts to adjacent recreational uses, such as in the preserve, lack of a north-south trail to the bluffs, and railroad crossing safety. We'll provide written comments with more detail. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank you for your comments.

My name is Andrea Adams-Morden. I was the steward for the natural areas in Carpinteria. I've also been active with the Native Plant Society and the Botanic Garden. My comments are about the open space and the landscaping in this plan. Past plans have had the property obscured by plantings along the side, but this plan doesn't do that anymore. The plants that they described, they said that there would be some invasives, but most of them would be native. Well, some invasives is not acceptable. We have a wild area adjacent to this property, and anywhere where there's construction next to a wild area they should only be allowed to use native plantings and the native plantings according to the best practices for restoration are within a 10 mile radius of the area and so that should be required of this property. The trails that they're putting in the area that's between the ocean and the tracks just sort of randomly put across the property. I was on a walk with Clifton Smith, who wrote the flora of Santa Barbara County, and he said that that area would have had many vernal pools in the old days. And so that's something that would be a good thing for them to restore to that area and not just have big fat trails going through the middle of the property. That's I probably don't need all my time. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Lisa. I'm a resident of Carpinteria. First of all, I just want to make a blanket statement that I can't imagine that the EIR will find this project to be beneficial in any way. to this area. Aesthetics, we know all about that. The impact to the utilities, our water usage and supplies are already overextended and this would negatively impact already limited supplies. Air quality, now this is something that really needs to be looked at. Exhaust from clothing dryers. Their strong fragrances and scents will certainly impact the ability for not only the seal sanctuary, because in addition to sound, the mothers of the seals find their young through the scent of smell. It will also affect insects' ability to, bees and other insects, that will further affect the animals down the food chain. When you flood the atmosphere with artificial chemical fragrances, this will absolutely disrupt and that needs to be looked at. Now, the seal sanctuary is a draw for tourists. It's on our kiosk. Our kiosk by the seal fountain says, come to our natural spaces. OK, so that's going to have to be changed if they decide to change that. So here we go. Artificial fragrances wafting through the air will negatively affect not only the bees, but local populations of humans. Fertilizers, weed abatement chemicals, leaf blower exhaust, lawn mower exhaust, hedge trimmer exhaust, just to name a few. The noise, the increased traffic with cars and motorcycles will negatively impact levels. That needs to be looked at. Migratory birds and their ability to hear mating calls in the field. Yard maintenance equipment, leaf blowers, lawn mowers, this is all noise. Weed abating string trimmers, also known as weed whackers, this all will impact the general noise level. The windows of these residences will have a negative impact on bird strikes to the windows, and that should be looked at very closely. Light pollution is a real problem. Predators exploit artificial light to hunt while prey species use darkness for cover. This unnatural advantage causes unnatural drops in prey populations. Insect fatalities, okay, when you take away their habitat, then it just impacts a broader food chain. I really hope that you'll take a really good close look at this stuff.

Thank you so much for your comments.

Good evening. My name is Alexandra Van Antwerp, and I'm speaking tonight as a private citizen, not on behalf of the Planning Commission. I'd like to thank city staff for organizing tonight's scoping meeting. and thank everyone who took the time to participate, both here in person and on Zoom. The site is one of the most environmentally and visually important places in Carpinteria. That makes it especially important that the EIR be thorough, objective, and complete. I'd like to mention four areas that I believe deserve careful study. First, visual impacts. The EIR should evaluate impacts on public views from Carpinteria Avenue the Bluffs Trail, the beach, and surrounding neighborhoods, including nighttime lighting and cumulative visual impacts. Second, biological resources. The EIR should carefully study the sensitive habitat on and around the site, including Esha and any wetlands that affect where development may occur. Beyond construction impacts, it should evaluate what happens after the homes are built. Nearly 200 homes next to coastal habitat will mean more lighting, more noise, more pets, more fencing, and many more people using the area every day. The city's own consistency review says the biological report doesn't fully analyze lighting impacts on Isha. Given the location of this project, I believe that issue deserves a thorough analysis in the EIR. The EIR should also explain how these habitat areas will be protected over the long term, not just during construction, but for years to come. Third, public access and recreation. The EIR should evaluate pedestrian and bicycle access, coastal access, trails, parking, emergency access, and the effect of nearly 200 new homes on one of Carpinteria's most heavily used recreation areas. More people will be using the trails, overlooks, beach access points, and the nature preserve every day. During the rainy season, the EIR should evaluate whether that increased use could contribute to trail erosion, muddy conditions, trail damage, and impacts to nearby habitat. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I hope the alternatives analysis is more than just a procedural exercise. This is the public's opportunity to see whether there are reasonable alternatives. Before any decisions are made, the public deserves a meaningful comparison of alternatives that could better protect the bluffs, coastal resources, public access, and the unique character of Carpinteria. Thank you.

Hi.

My name is Sean C. White. I live in Carpinteria. And I told myself not to talk tonight, but there is one small consideration which nobody has addressed. And that is, is there going to be a formula that you can use to actually measure activity within and leaving and coming to the property itself? Because if you look at it, it is so densely packed. You walk out of your door, there is literally nowhere to go except for these two little so-called pocket parks. which means you have to leave the property, and then you got to come back. And if you're a little kid, you got to be driven, or you got to take... So there's got to be a formula for what I see is going to be a very complicated equation of multi-directional, multi-dimensional, social... coming and going from the property. Related to that, the only place I know in the county that's as densely populated as that, or comparatively, is Isla Vista, where I lived for a long time. And as an old surfer, I was out in the water several times during construction along UCSB, and I was actually in the water while they were doing the construction. I could feel the vibrations. And it was actually, I mean, it was a visceral surprise and a scare, but I knew what the construction was. And not just the actual drilling, but heavy trucks coming and going. Now, I know there's already train activity, but this is going to be a continuous and real impactful concern. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Hello, Kathleen Reddington. I hadn't intended on speaking tonight. In fact, I was taking a bike ride, but decided that since the traffic was so bad on this street right out here, a street that's going to be used, or hopefully not, if they build this project. That's one of my main concerns as a cyclist who's slid across roads and gotten all kinds of things from traffic. I've been in the hospital, they used to call me job security at Cottage, and I do believe that it's going to be real hard to get around if this project as it is proposed is built. I also believe that this project belongs in Riverside, not on our bluffs, because in Riverside you can have this kind of density, because they already do. We don't. And in my time here in Carpentria, 28 almost, I think, 30 years, I have probably spent 300 days a year walking on those bluffs. I know them very well. I have seen rattlesnakes. I have seen a small mountain lion. I have one time seen a bear on his way to take a dip down there. Or maybe her, I don't know. And I have seen rattlesnakes. Coyotes, I saw a couple packs. I've walked at 5 o'clock in the morning, 6 o'clock at night, and 11 o'clock at night. I love the bluffs. I'm going to use one word right here, right now, sacred. Now, whether it's sacred for my mountain lions, my bears, the insects, my neighbors, yes, we need housing, not here. This is a great project for Riverside, Irwindale, I don't care where you put it, but just not here. This is not the place for this project. I believe the environmental impacts in terms of air quality, pollution, density, and besides that, to quote a former member of the Planning Commission, it's just butt ugly. And I really appreciate, though, all of my fellow community members who have come up tonight, those who are on Zoom, and those who will, and please do, fellow community members, we still have time to comment. This is not the place for this project. It's a great project, as I said. Put it somewhere else. I'm sure we can find somewhere else that won't hurt our sacred treasure of the Bluffs. We only have one, and we need to save it. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Can I have five minutes? I'm just kidding. If you'll give it to me. I just wanted to acknowledge, I guess, that we are on unceded lands here of the Chumash peoples, which we have not acknowledged tonight. They're on our city emblem as well, so just something to note. Good evening, my name is Patrick Crooks. I'm a professional biologist with over 15 years of experience in habitat assessment, special status species surveys, and CEQA compliance. I'm the current president of the Citizens for the Carpenter Bluffs and I will focus my comments on biological resources and the adequacy of the environmental baseline. The biological information currently relied upon appears to be based on prior work prepared by DUDEC, which is now outdated and does not reflect the level of detail required for a project of this scale and sensitivity. In my professional opinion, the current biological assessment does not establish a defensible baseline because it lacks focused protocol level surveys across multiple taxa. A major deficiency is its treatment of invertebrates and pollinators, which are critical to ecosystem health. The report documents only a single invertebrate species observed on the site, which is not consistent with the expected diversity of coastal scrub and ruderal habitats. More importantly, the report concludes that the site does not support suitable habitat for Crouch's bumblebee. In my professional opinion, that conclusion is not supported by the ecological characteristics of the site or by established knowledge of Bomba species. Bumblebees are generalist foragers and utilize a wide range of floral resources, including rural vegetation. Suitable overwintering conditions, such as small mammal burrows and undisturbed soils, are present throughout the site. Given that Crouch's bumblebee has been documented on our bluffs and within our city limits, the conclusion that habitat is absent reflects a lack of targeted survey effort and mischaracterization of habitat suitability. The issue is part of a broader pattern. The report acknowledges the potential for sensitive reptiles such as the California Lagos lizard, but does not include focused survey effort. It also fails to address the potential presence of burrowing owls and does not adequately evaluate raptor foraging habitat, including white-tailed kite. I've also personally observed native plant species on site that are not documented in the report. This indicates that the surveys and vegetation mapping are not capturing site conditions at an adequate level of detail. This reinforces the need for fine-scale vegetation mapping. If mapping is too coarse, environmentally sensitive habitat areas may not be properly identified. Switching gears, the extent of the potential impacts to trees along the project boundary cannot be accurately determined because a survey-grade property line has not been established adjacent to the Carpinteria Bluffs Nature Preserve. Without a defined boundary, it is not possible to determine which trees may be impacted. At a minimum, a survey grade boundary should be established and clearly marked in the field so that the public can understand the extent of impacts to these resources. Taken together, these deficiencies indicate that the biological baseline is incomplete. The EIR must require protocol level surveys, including pollinator surveys, small mammal trapping, burrowing owl surveys, raptor surveys, and focused herpetological studies. In my professional opinion, relying on incomplete data will result in an EIR that underestimates impacts and does not meet CEQA standards. I urge the city to require a rigorous and independent biological analysis before proceeding. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. I got questions too, but I know those were supposed to kind of be tied into comments, but we'll see if I can have a couple questions after.

Good evening, my name is Arturo Tello and I'm a landscape painter. And I've painted at the Carpinteria Bluffs for over 40 years. And if you need an expert for aesthetics, I have many contacts, members of the Oak Group and other local artists. plein air painters that know the area very well and can talk to you about it. I was going to read you my comments, but I think I'll wait and send them formally so that the wording is exact. But one thing, since I have the opportunity to talk to you directly, is to tell you that there is another three or four EIRs that have been done for other projects, past projects, in this area and that we've it's not our first rodeo so we know that there is some class one significant unavoidable impacts which the last consultant tried to get away with saying that they could mitigate the loss of rural open space and there was a big discussion big fight of many meetings to get them to go back to the initial assessment that this were class one unavoidable loss of rural open space that no matter how little you urbanize the site, you urbanize it and that's it. You have a class one significant unavoidable impact. I want to say that the developer had a town meeting and I was able to speak directly to the architect and I asked him, where are the view corridors? And he gave me a blank, like what? What are you talking about view corridors? And so they provide zero view corridors through that mass of buildings. And I said to him, well, you have to have something from the first, you know, the public roads and from the recreational area. Where are they? I did a professional job. I did what the developer asked me to do. And so it's very clear when you talk to the developer that he's just going for... I have a PUD. I have so much... that I can cover and I'm gonna cover as much as that allows me to. Now the PUD might be a mistake, it's for sure a mistake, but the idea of the PUD was to for sure require that the, ANY PROJECTS THAT CAME FORWARD CAME IN THROUGH A SPECIFIC PLAN TO PLAN EVERYTHING. SO THAT'S WHY THE PUD ENTERS INTO PLANNING. ANYWAY, I'LL SEND MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM THAT HAS A THREE-MINUTE COMMENT? Um, that is going to be our last set of comments is the three minute. If anyone hasn't spoken yet, we'll go to zoom and they'll still be, we'll still ask if there's anyone else in the room that has a three minute comment. But first let's check in with zoom hands raised.

Susan Allen, you are able to talk. You need to unmute your microphone. Susan, if you can hear me, you need to unmute your microphone. Okay, she might have stepped away.

Is there anyone else with their hand raised?

Yes. Someone on an iPhone, you've been unable to talk?

Hello, my name is Marianne. I am from the Chumash community, and I strongly oppose this development site. I know it's called the farmhouse. A lot of developments are calling themselves the farmhouse or village sites, but the irony is that we are destroying those very settlements that exist in this area. Somebody mentioned earlier That is sacred. It is sacred land. We know that there was a known village site in this area. Village sites were not like housing tracks. They weren't just a few miles, few rows of housing, and that was it. Store was located somewhere else. Our daycare was located somewhere else. This was all encompassing on this land. We need to save these open spaces. Once we destroy these grounds, it's very difficult to ever get them restored, if not impossible. I do believe that housing is an issue, but real affordable housing is the real issue. I don't know anybody who can afford $650,000 for a home. And when we say young families, are we just assuming that all families are two parents with both two parent income? Because there's a lot of single parents out there that are struggling. Most BIPOC people are doubled up with multiple generations in their home. So if this is a four or five bedroom, you might have twice the amount of people that are in there with more cars. Traffic and parking is already a nightmare. We cannot keep taking up every bit of open space to build drive-throughs, to add things that are just very unhealthy for not only us as individual people, but for the landscape. These are, I heard in the beginning something saying that about the fire, the rate of fire was very low. These are ancestrally fire and flood zones. So you cannot say there is no guarantee that a fire won't come through here. And the amount of traffic trying to get out in this area, much less if there's people visiting whatever land is left on the open space and to get out, it is a very dangerous situation. I know that this land and the animals, the native animals and the plants that live there and have been there, they have survived through generations and generations because that land has been protected. I urge the developer to give the carpentry a bliss, allow them to have the right of first refusal to make a purchase for this land. Everybody continually over the years keeps pleading with them to please sell the land back. Our elder who has now passed, who passed this year, she spoke about this she went to a meeting a couple years ago and she spoke in opposition of the development and here we are elders are passing years are passing we still have no affordable housing and we're still destroying open spaces i believe the two can coexist but not on this property there are other places that we can build these and we have to be very mindful of how close and how dense this housing is we know that densely populated areas brings more crime. It's the mental and emotional impact to individuals. Thank you, Maria.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments.

Susan Allen, if you could. There you go. You may speak now. Her microphone's active, but she's not speaking. Okay, that's it.

Okay. Is there anyone else here in person that has a three-minute or less comment to make? If not, we will go ahead and wrap up this meeting. I want to thank everybody who spoke tonight, gave excellent comments and input for the EIR. As we noted earlier, the comment period is still active through July 10. And even if you gave verbal comments tonight, we strongly encourage you to send us your written comments. The email is thefarmproject at carpentriaca.gov or send them to us at city hall. And again, thank you everyone. And we will adjourn this meeting.