Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

all right good evening everyone i hope everyone's summer is going great the weather's hopefully cooperating we'll see um welcome to the carmel zoning board of appeals meeting for the month of july 2026. board members names are in front of you on the dance with ed spadaro our code enforcement officer as well as grateful shetty uh, town council with us this evening. The way we operate is I will ask you to come up to the podium when I call your, uh, number or name and or name. Um, I will swear you in, please speak clearly and distinctly into the microphone because it's being recorded for minutes. So you need to pick up your voice and everything. That's all the dialogue in the, um, microphone for being recorded once we hear your case we'll pull the board members for any questions or comments then i'll open it up to the public for any questions or comments once we close the hearing there's no further input on any case okay so please keep that in mind um we all please stand and join me for pledge of allegiance

admissible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you all. Our first few cases tonight have requested holdovers. So for application, Joanne McConnell, they've requested a holdover, so I'll look for a motion on that. Motion. Second is aye. Silvio, all in favor? Aye. Okay, the second application for Michelle Montero, 114 Old Route 6, Realty LLC, has also requested a holdover until the August meeting, so I'll look for a motion for that.

So moved.

Second. By Julie. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All right. And application number three for Ellen Lever, revocable living trust. They have also requested a holdover. No, they changed it to a withdrawal. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. You're right. They've requested a withdrawal. So I will look for a motion to dismiss without prejudice. So moved. Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Okay. Thank you. All right, so new applications this evening. Application for Charles Williams for a variation of section 156-9, seeking an area variance for permission to house six chickens in a chicken coop or run. The property is located at 88 Bryant Trail, Carmel, New York, and is known as tax map 44.10-1-32. Good evening, sir. Come on up. This is application number four, by the way. All right, state your name and address for the record, please.

Charles Williams.

All right, raise your right hand. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so off you go. Okay, bring us through your case, what you're trying to do here.

Hold on, I think we have technical issues.

Let's start from the beginning, because it may not have been picked up. Sorry.

I live in a factory home with my wife, my daughter, and her husband, and their two children. And my grandchildren are the two who want the chickens.

They want to be involved before age, and I think the chickens would be a good project for them.

So that's why we're here for the variants, we being myself and my grandson.

okay um so i didn't read this i usually do but 40 000 square feet is what's being required to house the six chickens and what's existing is 25 778 square feet so variants of 14 222 square feet would be needed then six chickens per acre that's six chickens per twenty five seven seven eight or three three point eight six six seven so two point one three three three chickens a variance being sorry so we You know, when they created this code, I don't think they considered everything, but unfortunately we're stuck with it as it's written. So that's why you need a variance. Yeah, I understand. We did, however, receive a letter of opposition this morning, and I'll read it.

Well, I mean, you can read it to the board, but I've read it. I'd like to comment on that if I might.

Okay. But just for the public's sake, for the record, I'd like to read it really quick. Um, it's addressed to me and the zoning board members. I'm the owner resident of property immediately. Jason 88, Brian trail. And I respectfully requested the board denied the requested area variants to permit the keeping of six chickens on this property. The town zoning regulations require a minimum size of 40,000 square feet for the keeping of chickens. The applicant's property contains 25,778 square feet, approximately 14,222 square feet less than required, making the lot only about 64% of the required minimum. This is a substantial variance from the standard established by the town. The purpose of the 40,000 square foot requirement is to provide adequate separation between the keeping of chickens and neighboring residences. The concern is particularly important in our neighborhood where the properties are older. Non-conforming lots and homes are situated much closer together than would be expected under current zoning standards. The configuration layout of these lots leaves little opportunity for meaningful buffering and screening, making any impacts associated with keeping the chickens more noticeable to adjoining property owners. As the adjacent property owner, I have concerns regarding odor, noise, the storage and composting of chicken manure and bedding. The potential attraction of predators and vermin and the visual impact of a chicken coop and related structures. These concerns are heightened because of the close proximity of our homes and the limited separation between our properties. While I understand the applicant's desire to keep backyard chickens, I believe granting a variance for that is more than one third smaller than the minimum required size would undermine the intent of the town zoning regulations and could encourage similar requests on other undersized lots. I respectfully ask the board to consider the substantial nature of this variance the unique configuration of this neighborhood and the potential impacts on adjacent properties when evaluating this application. For these reasons, I respectfully request that the Zoning Board of Appeals denied the requested area variance. Thank you for your time and consideration. And this is from John R. Clark at 87 Bryant Trail, Carmel, New York. Okay, I just wanted to read that to get it to the record. We've all seen it as of this morning, I believe. So,

what what can be done like i don't know what side his property is on well can i just make a few general yeah okay i'm sorry okay opportunity okay well one thing of all the neighbors he's the furthest one away suzanne who is sitting in the back and our neighbor to the north who who aren't here our houses are about 65 feet apart John is 180 feet from us, from house to house. He's also, the road and his house are about 35 to 40 feet below our house. So when he talks about seeing the coop, first of all, he doesn't even know where it's going to be placed. He couldn't see it from his house, and he's on the west side of us. So the prevailing wind is from the west or the northwest. There's never going to be any odor blowing his way. So I don't see how this is going to impact him at all.

What's the proposed nature of the cleanliness and the proposed nature of the cleaning up, the cleanup of the manure and whatnot?

My sense is we're going to compost part of it, and we're just going to bag it up and put it in the garbage, a lot of it.

How often does that occur?

I don't know, but probably once a week or twice a week. I really don't know how often it will be to clean that up.

Because that's something we would need to consider, right?

But we have a compost pile, and it would just add stuff to it.

So his property is on which side of your house?

He's on the west side of the property. He's down the hill, and like I said, about 180 feet from house to house. so and in the in the summer he can't even see our house i mean it's a heavily that piece of the property has never been developed if you look on the map it's this it's the second it's the west side of the property and it's heavily wooded and did you just when the board members come up and indicate where his property is based on this map that you provided us

Yeah, I mean, your lot.

Here, this is your house.

Where's your lot?

This is your lot here. I'm sorry.

He's right here. Right. Your lot is what? Where? Here? Right here. Across the street. That's the wooded part. See the sign there? There's two lots. And our house is right at the bottom of the panel. Our house is right there. And if I may. The group is proposed to go here. The group is supposed to go at the far corner. It's on here. that's a problem because we'd be closer to suzanne well suzanne is here in support of you i think that makes more sense all right so we'll find out where he is There's no way he can see that, especially where the coop's located. He'd never, ever see it. I was out there.

I'm just telling you.

No, I didn't get a chance to go out there. Is it fenced?

Very wooded area. Very, very wooded. Because my concern is more about when they're out, because they're not always in the coop. No, they're always in it. You're not going to let them out. No, not in that area. Most people let them out and then put them back in.

No, I'm not going to let them out. There's too many.

Go back to the podium so we can speak. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that way you get the recording.

So I just gave you a section I drew up this morning after I got his letter, and it shows you the relative height difference between our house and where his house is.

All right. Well, let me open up to the board members.

You're saying you're not going to have them out because most people have them out.

Not at all. Not at all.

Okay. That's, that's my biggest concern is because I know a lot of people have them and then they can, no, I'm not going to, we're not going to do that. Okay.

The chicken coop. Did you purchase that already?

Well, actually we have, and it's in a box in the driveway. So if we have to send it back, we can send it back. But we haven't taken it out of the box or done any construction at all. floor of that coop it looks like it's like there's not a floor on this is that it looks like it lays right on the grass well the coop is is designed to be off the ground and our our plan in which i will detail when i get the building permit is to put hardware cloth or something similar to it you know with like a half inch holes underneath everything and out beyond the run and the coop so that we don't have rats and other vermin coming in.

The concern is a dig under from a predator like a red fox or a coyote, which, you know, that's what you want. We're going to do the same.

We'll either use concrete or we'll dig down and have, you know, pressure treated two-bys around the coop so they can't get under it. to make it hard for them to get under it so during the day they're inside the coop yeah well they're inside the coop and they're inside the run they're not gonna we're not gonna let them out it's just too it's just too wild where we are I mean if you see on that other map across the street it's just all woods yeah

It looks very heavily wooded. I'm looking at your house now.

Well, our house is, half of our lot is, or more than half of our lot is heavily wooded also. And so is Suzanne's, which is on the south side.

Anyway, that's... And you want to use the chickens for harvesting the eggs?

Yeah, just the eggs. We're not going to breed because we can't have a rooster, but that's all it is. All right, Wells, anything?

Ed, I have to ask you something. Is there anything in our code, in the Department of Health, in the state code that, are there any restrictions on the waste of these animals? There's nothing?

No, nothing as far as the waste. You do know that it has to be fenced in and blocked from your neighbors.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

I said the code requires you to fence in the run and the coop from your neighbors. You've read the rules.

Yeah, when we bring in the plans to you guys, that will all be detailed.

But there's nothing?

We don't have anything that says it's kept clean.

And if it wasn't kept clean, they would call you?

If we get a complaint, then we'll have to go out and see it.

Is the chicken wire in this considered the fence or an additional fence in addition to the chicken wire that's part of this thing? Yeah, he submitted cut sheets on the actual coop.

The coop, yeah, but the code says all coops, any attached run shall be screened from view at ground level. Adjacent lots, installing a fence. with a height of four to six feet or landscaping, combination of both, they have to protect the neighbors from seeing the coop all the way around.

There'd be a wall, an opaque wall in front of the coop on the neighbor's side, which is per what he just said.

What kind of wall inside?

What kind of wall?

I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. There's some kind of structure, a wall?

Well, it'd be just two or four posts with boards on it to screen the neighbor from the chickens. Okay.

Ed, we probably should talk to the town board to make sure that that's a little more clear. Because in the past, with chicken, I don't think for my recollection we've ever.

That's what Julie was saying.

Yeah, I knew about that.

Like the lady who was on the call.

Yeah, we actually had one last month that came through and didn't realize that there was requirements of fencing.

To me, the nature of that sounds more like view-orientated rather than safety-orientated. Oh, so it's called protection and view.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with safety. They want it screened from the neighbors. But it doesn't have to be a fence. Either with a hard fence or with plantings. Right.

I think if you have chickens, you take into account that nature is going to possibly do what it wants to do. And that is the thing. Whether they can get in or not, they're going to try. But that's him protecting his chickens.

If I may comment on, you know, to the building inspector, he knows this. I'm a registered architect, and I've been working in construction all my life. So whatever they need in terms of detailing and plans, you know, that's not going to be a problem.

Okay.

Yeah, when he comes in for the permit, he'll supply us with all that information. Yeah, that's something you'll expect anyway once it's done.

Okay.

So I do, just to add, because so I get you're in a wooded area, but now we have somebody who's not in a wooded area and comes in and says they have the same size property. We all know some of the lawyers are going to come in and say,

Well, you let this person have it, so can we put something in there because of... Each case is judged on its own merit, so it's conditions, right, such as this one. If we had an open lot with no screening, we probably could condition additional screening, but this is interesting what you brought up tonight about the screening or fencing of some nature that we need to consider going forward as well. So any other board members have any comments or questions? Julie, you good?

Have you talked to this person that wrote the letter of opposition face to face or to maybe try to address some of their concerns? Well, it's funny.

You know, he and my son and I were eating at McCarthy's the other night, and he was actually in there. And I didn't, we just didn't, I forgot to say hello to him. But I'm a little surprised he didn't say something when we were there, but it doesn't. But it happened so late in the morning that I just didn't, you know, I didn't talk to him. Okay.

uh... is there you said his properties below yours so could there be runoff from this well there's a road there's no way it can run into his yard there's a road with a thirty five foot easement between our property and his I don't care about the environmental I'm just saying if they're defecating and it goes downhill and it smells i'm sorry i just can't hear it very well if there's what if there's runoff from the waste and it goes on to his property and then you know there could be smells or is there any consideration for that

We could put up a sill fence. I really don't know. I can't answer that.

But you're saying it would have to go off your property and across the road.

Yeah, it's not going to go across. If you look at the pattern of the water when it rains, it's going down our side of the road.

The property that this guy was talking about is on the opposite side. This structure is lower. You can see from the picture it's hilly and down at a lower spot anyway on your property. As per this picture you've shown indicated where you put the coop. It's at a lower grade on your property as it is.

Yeah, that particular area there, that's really not going to go anywhere. It's going to go into the ground. It's not on the edge of where the slope starts. It's back like 30 feet from that.

All right, let's hear what the public has to say. I have one more question. Go ahead, Rose.

As far as the walking area for the chickens, they're only going to be walking in this one section?

this is their only yeah that's that's what you can see the coop itself is raised and then this is the whole thing is like 12 feet long and that's all the walking area they'll have okay are you going to move the group at all like so that way it doesn't kill off one section of grass or well it's really not on it's between the driveway so uh no i don't plan on moving it

Okay. And last question. I have one more. Okay, Colombo. Just one more. Why six chickens? Why not maybe four?

Why six?

Yeah.

Well, because when you go to, we looked into it, when you go to Tractor Supply, that's how they sell them. It's six.

Oh, really?

And your thing said six, so, I mean, if you want us to just have four, then we can have four. That's the way they come.

You'll learn something new every day. Good to know.

Good question.

2.1333 chickens would make you one condition less of what you would need to do. But look, 1.3 chickens is not.

Two chickens and an egg. That would be the one point.

You could have chicken cutlets one night.

All right.

At this point, I'm going to open it up to the public for any comments or questions. Neighbors, anybody? It's your time. Speak now or forever hold your peace. State your name and address, and when you're done, please just pencil that in, your name, address, and contact information on the podium.

Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. I am Suzanne Lample, and I live at 69 Pine Trail in Carmel.

Raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God.

I do. Okay. All this is like really new information for me, so it really floored me. And I'd like to handle several points here, but the biggest one being that it feels like there's not really a well-researched plan in raising live animals and caring for them properly. That's my feeling. When I heard about it, I was shocked. not a fan of it. And I did go over to Chuck. We have been neighbors for what, 14, 15 years? And we share 267 linear feet of property line with no separation, no road, no fencing, nothing. I've never thought about having to worry about really delegating our property line. It's always kind of been like, you know, we knew this was like an area that we just respect. But now, and to that point, I did bring my survey I have probably 14 windows in my entire house. Ten of them directly face his property, directly. So, you know, if there is odors, it's going to be coming right into my house if I open a window. I'd like to kind of clarify for you guys the kind of very unique topography of our neighborhood. These are not a half acre of a flat property where you can like kind of decide where you're going to move things around. On John Clark's side of his property is a steep slope and that comprises almost half of the entire 25,000 acre plot. Then on my side, like our properties fit together kind of like an L. So my house and then my property and his driveway all share a property line. Does that? Yes. Okay. So that said... Our houses, I think, might be closer than 65 feet. And I'll tell you why. For one, if somebody sneezes in that house, I say, bless you. I can hear it's that close. To the point that if there's a power outage, Chuck can tell me if my power is on or off by looking in my kitchen window and seeing the indicator light on my refrigerator. That's how close we are. And unfortunately, that is the only area that would be a level, viable place to put a coop. referring to my survey, there's not a place that is 15 feet from my property line in any direction that would be a viable location, just for the coop. We're not talking about the run, the composting, like any of that.

Um, just so you know, the coop and the run are integral.

It's one, they are integral, but if we're not talking about just a four by five structure here, you need 200 square feet for a run. So. That is most, this is what the research that I've seen. Um, if you have chickens, he actually submitted the cut sheets for the actual unit.

Yeah.

I haven't seen any of the plans.

Um, this is okay.

I mean, he mentioned that they're going to be inside this structure, which is only 12 feet long.

It's 114 inches long by 27 inches wide by 42 inches high. If they were cooped up in there, would that be a problem?

Not very large. Never out?

Because this would actually be extended toward my property. And that means I will hear them. I will smell them.

Is this elevation your side of his house?

So, yeah, here. So if this is his house, his property goes slopes down right off his property towards John's. And literally, this is my property line, like right here. That's my property line. And this is my.

You can see in that photo where he's proposing this.

Here? Oh, near the garage.

Would you see that? So, yes, I would see that. Absolutely. I see this entire area from my kitchen window.

This is his house. So you're here. Yes. Yes.

So. That's Beach Trail. Wait.

This is Bryant. And that's Beach. So he's kind of a corner lock.

Yes, and this is my property. My house is right here. It sits right close to here. Like I said, he can look in my kitchen window and see my refrigerator light on. That's how close it is. So this is already probably only like 20 feet from me. This is my property line. I mean, I'm not even sure if that's 15 feet from my property line. This is a very, very tight, very tight area. Okay.

If that was fenced in, if that was fenced in, you know, where you couldn't see it.

Well, I had a two story house. Okay. So you're going to look over the fence.

Every single bedroom is going to view here and there.

and smell whatever's going on and like he said, the wind typically goes north in a northwesterly, so that means all of that is going to come right to my property which is the closest to all of this. I also have a lot of concerns. It is without exception that chicken coops have rats. You can look it up. It is without exception. Rats carry ticks. They carry fleas. They carry, they attract snakes. They attract foxes. coyotes, which we have an active population of coyote and fox in our neighborhood. Because just beyond my property, which basically separates his property from this woods, there's a really big kind of wooded area. My concern now is that these predators are going to cross my property in order to seek out the chickens. So I will be in more danger than even they are because they're kind of behind the coop and they will be crossing across my property. I also wanted to state that every house has a private well. We are not on public water. Again, I mean, I don't know the science. I wouldn't be able to speak to that. But pretty much every house around Chuck's. So basically, there's John. And there's another house here, the Carrolls, I think. And then there's new owners at what used to be the Rickabons. And there's me. So pretty much at every level, he is surrounded by very close proximity homes. But all of us are slightly at a lower elevation, which means it could run off any direction, and all of our wells are very closely connected for our drinking water.

Could we have a copy of your survey for the record?

I don't have a copy, unfortunately.

Could you share with us real quickly? Someone wants to see it.

can take a copy of my phone and email it to don if you want it in the file can we do that yeah yeah that's what i'm going to do anyway and then i'll email it to the and i can put it in the file also um here is this house i mean it's very narrow here it's very narrow it's

Again, like I said, this is my kitchen window. That's our property right here. This is the flagship. Yes, so this is.

25, 29. And 28.

Yes, and that's 26. Yes. So his driveway goes up. This is the driveway. It goes up here, and then there's a parking area here. and then his house is here so really there's just this little strip that is possible the rest of his property slopes steeply down towards our community lake and about five to six more houses that all have private well okay okay okay um yeah including would you mind taking a picture yeah this one we have it in the record and that was actually very helpful Absolutely, that's clean. You know, like John Clark had mentioned, the homes in this area are very old. And a lot of these lot lines are like wonky and weird. There's a lot of hills, you know, there's a lot of topography, a lot of rock, oddly shaped landscapes. Things like that. And so, you know, they didn't pay attention to whether the house was built too close and all of that to their property line. So it just so happens that my house is very close to the property line that we share. Can I ask?

What? What's your address?

69 Pine Trail. Can I ask you one question?

Sorry, Will. You made a pack of caramel.

Caramel. Caramel. This is an association, right?

The Hillandale Country Club Community.

Is there any bylaws?

There are bylaws.

Something that maybe would have some guidance of what is allowed within your association?

As far as I understand it, yes. the bylaws of the community pretty much follow the town laws. So any regulations that are set by the town, considering lot size for chickens and things like that, they pretty much follow. I mean, obviously, I think there's like noise, limitations and kind of quiet hours again because we are very tightly packed and we do have the luxury of trees but that doesn't do anything for sound or smell or anything else all right we got you just when you're done make sure you put your name address and contact info on that piece of paper on the podium okay um Oh, there's also, again, when I spoke with Chuck, I felt like the plan for composting, I wasn't sure if that had been thoroughly researched and there are guidelines about, you know, making sure that it is, contained with straw bale, you know, there's processes that you have to abide by. And then when I did ask where that was possibly going to be, I believe he did reference towards the hillside that slopes down. And I don't know. I haven't heard... My concern is that I haven't heard a real plan to address a lot of the concerns. And to be honest, it would have been neighborly to be asked if I had an opinion about this process before we ended up here. And again, you can probably tell I'm asking the board to deny this request. for a very specific reason we are neighbors and i love my neighbors and i respect my neighbors and if the town offers grants this variance then it's up to us to then have to file complaints and be consistent and that puts that pits neighbor against neighbor and i don't i really don't want to do that so thank you for your time and thank you for listening okay

All right, anybody else wish to be heard on this application?

I'll be brief.

State your name and address, please, for the record.

Chairman, board members, my name is Stacy Rude. I live at 74 Pine Trail in Carmen, New York.

Raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

I live across the street from Suzanne within enough distance that my husband and I also received the letter for this variance. My primary focus of coming to this meeting today is to see how these proceedings will go and how that will set precedents for neighbors around us, because we share a property line with a neighbor that is not super considerate. So I've also heard that they're in considering of getting chickens, which I would strongly oppose. that happening because there's already plenty of things to file complaints if I were to do so on that property. Again, I don't want to pit neighbor against neighbor. I want everybody to live in this harmonious wonderland where everybody gets along and shares values and respects people's properties and boundaries. I'm interested to see how this proceeds, but I do not support

chuck and family getting these chickens at this time okay noted just make sure you put your info there please anybody else wish to be heard on this application all right i'm going to read the requirements for the board's uh benefit uh for an area or use variant sorry oh area variants Yep, long day. Number one, will an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or detriment to nearby properties be created by granting of the variance? So I think the neighbors made a point of that this evening. Number two, can any other method be used that does not require a variance but still allow for the benefit requested? I think he's landlocked basically there in a corner lot. um is the proposed variant substantial 64 they're about yeah uh will the proposed variants have an adverse effect or impact on the physical environmental condition in the neighborhood or district it appears that the neighbors made case for that you guys agree or not just pointing it out there and is the alleged difficulty self-created of course yes because he desires to have this chicken coop so unfortunately in an area variance all the following must be taken into consideration so we have to think about that when we're deciding on this so um so mr williams i don't know if you want to come up and speak to any of the points that the neighbors made or do you want to let this rest well as as i mentioned earlier um

when we get into dealing with the plans for the building department, we will address all of the issues of keeping vermin out and protecting it from foxes and coyotes and everything else. But just to clarify something, I measured both distances today before i came to the meeting and that and the distance from our house to her house is 65 feet and the distance from our house to the neighbor on the north is about 65 feet i don't know how far they off on the property line but you know it's it's a guess but it's it is close but it's not like we're right on top of each other The other thing, and this is just a point you may want to know, when I go to check if the power's on, I have to walk across my yard and look through her window. I can't see her refrigerator light from my door. So we're not that close. So anyway, that's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Okay.

Thank you. All right, at this point, I'll look for a motion to close the hearing on this application. So moved. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay, our next application is for Marianne Tiffany for variation of section 156-9, seeking their variance for permission to retain existing deck, gazebo, and fence. The property is located at 142 Orchard Road, Mahopac, New York. Tax map 74.26-1-40. Code requires or allows front 25 feet for the gazebo. What's provided is 22 feet 3 inches. A variance required of 2 feet 9 inches. So the code requires or allows for the rear on the gazebo 10 feet. What exists is 3 foot 10 inches on the Orchard Roadside. So a variance of 6 feet 2 inches is being sought. The front for the deck, the code requires 25 feet. What exists is 17 feet, 8 inches on the Brook Road side. So 7 foot, 4 inch variance is being sought. And the front deck setback requirement is 25 feet. What's existing is 7 feet, so 18 feet is being sought. And for the front, for the fence, the code requires 4 feet or allows 4 feet. What's provided is 6 feet, so a variance of 2 feet is being sought. All right. Good evening, Joel.

Good evening. How are you?

Name and address for the record.

Joel Greenberg, 2 Muscoot Road, North Mahopac, New York.

Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God.

I do.

Thank you, sir.

Okay, as you can see from the survey, which I think you all have, this is the gazebo over here, and of course we have a corner lot, which means we have two front yards and two rear yards and no side yards. So the gazebo, which you see on the picture over here, and the picture down below here, is close to the property line. There is a fence along here which basically shields it. And the 25 foot that's required to the road is 22 feet 3 inches, so that's only a couple of feet variance. The deck over here requires, again, 25 and 25 because we have two front yards. So it's 17 feet from Brook Street, Brook Road, excuse me, and seven feet from Orchard Road. But as you can see from the pictures provided, this is the deck. It actually is sitting in the inside corner of the house over here with the steps coming down and a walkway coming out to Orchard Road. And this is the Orchard Road side. This is the Brook Road side. This was built several years ago. Unfortunately, my client's husband passed away about a year or so ago, and she's in the process of selling the house. And obviously, we are trying to get the variances so that they can go ahead with the closing. She already has a buyer. As far as the fence is concerned, I know that normally a fence in front of the house, which you can see from here, is supposed to be six feet. Once you're behind the house, it can go down to four feet. Again, the fence has been up there for, that's been here for quite a few years.

I think you have that opposite, Joel. Yeah, the reverse. Yeah, four feet. Four feet up to the face of the house.

I'm sorry, four feet and six feet in the back. That's correct, I'm sorry.

Okay, Joel.

Anyway, so, again, if you've been out to the site, and you can see that it's very well kept, and I don't believe there's anyone here in the audience. We've obviously notified. Believe it or not, if you're sitting down, 95 letters went out to the neighbors. Of course, lots in Lexicor are rather small, so that... Half of Lake Sequel was probably notified. But anyway.

So they built this deck without getting a permit? Correct.

Her husband built it without a permit. That's absolutely correct.

All right. So there's no other property that can be purchased, right? You're landlocked in a corner there.

No, unless she wants to buy all the houses around her. No, there's no other property.

The only thing I see that is workable is the gazebo is not anchored. From what I can tell from the pictures.

It looks like it's bolted into the.

It's bolted down into the, yeah.

But it could be unbolted and re-bolted. Yeah, so it's easy enough to do to bring it a little more into conformance. I know, you know, our job is to grant the minimum.

Yeah, I understand that. And, you know, that obviously, as you said, that is movable. It's not anchored down to the point where you can't move it.

So what can we do, what would be a reasonable number to bring that into more conformance?

Well, as you see here, there's a driveway coming through existing McAdam, so I would say that we could probably move it down so it lines up with the driveway, not going over the driveway, but we could probably add another, I would say, about another three feet, so that this could be, instead of 310, it could be 610. And again, there is a fence along here so that there's privacy for the gazebo and privacy for the neighbor next door. Yeah, I see that it's tight there, but... As you also, you can see that the deck basically lines up with the floor of the house. I think there's like three steps. And as you can see, also a very nice walkway that goes out to Orchard Road.

All right, board members, any questions or comments?

If we were going to have them move it, that would ruin all the favors. How do those get bolted in? No, you. No, no. They come out. They come out easily.

Yeah, what are you talking about, the gazebo or the deck? Yeah, the gazebo. Gazebo anchor bolts. Oh, yeah, that can be easily moved if the board wants.

The deck's on the corner side, right? There's no neighbors that it's.

Yeah, the outside corner.

Yeah, so it's not too close to someone's house. Oh, no, no, no.

The house next door is way up over here.

No, and I'm even talking about the deck. The deck, for me, it's on a corner.

It's on a corner, and there's basically no houses near it. The only house that's near it, the deck is being attached to the house. There's a 50-foot right-of-way to the house across the street and a 50-foot right-of-way to the house across the street here.

Joel, on the second picture on the right, top right, Just point to the front part of the fence. Where's the front?

This is the front. This is facing books, right? Yes.

So you can slide that back and maybe you slide it back to two feet nine inches. You don't even need that. No, it's the height.

What are you talking about? The gazebo or the fence? The gazebo.

The variance is two feet nine inches.

Oh, I see. So to move it closer to here so that there's no variance required.

Yeah, it looks like you can do that.

Well, then I may make a suggestion if we're going to move it, let's move it a little closer to here, excuse me, further away so it's 25 feet and we can then move it down to the existing blacktop driveway. That could be done.

So you get rid of one variance and lessen another. That works.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

And the other question is that fence in the back that is really facing the front. Yes. It's behind the gazebo there. This one.

This is the one that's facing over here. This is facing Brook Road.

Right.

It's six feet high.

but it's kind of like a side yard.

Well, again, we're stuck with the fact that we have two fronts and two sides.

Does it block anything like on a corner of visibility?

Oh, no, no, no. The fence is way back over here. In fact, as you can see by the coloring of the fence, it's actually 20 foot, almost 20 foot, 20 foot six inches, 20 foot five inches from the street, from the property line. The road, of course, is back over here, so it's not bothering anybody. And the good thing is, if it had been built back just another five or six feet, then the six feet would have been fine but again as you can see it's not bothering any of the neighbors uh as i said the house over here next to it is up here there's a house across the street here across across the street there so i don't think uh you know if we do that moving like we just talked about at least we've eliminated one variance yeah yeah all right joel so let's let's um so if you want me to advise the original application yes

So the front.

So the front for the conceivable will be 25 feet so that variance is gone.

So the 22 foot three becomes 25 feet.

Right.

Say again.

Two feet, nine inches was the variance required. He won't need a variance if he needed a variance. Right.

Yeah. In other words, we're eliminating one variance by variance.

One aspect of it.

Yes.

The table underneath the gazebo, is that permanent or movable?

No, that can be moved. It's secured into the ground, but it can be moved up.

There's not a concrete foundation around it.

What's that?

The table is not secure to the ground.

It's not secure to the ground.

All right, so then that... Because I was concerned if you moved that, then it would...

So as we just talked about, and as Chairman did, we can make this 25 feet so that the variance is eliminated, and the 3 foot 10 inches, let's say 4 feet, we could probably move it at least another 2 feet, so that would be 6.

So 6 from 25 would reduce the variance to 19.

So that's the rear 10 foot... Gazebo, so from what's being provided now is 3 foot 10 inches.

Let's say 4 feet, so we'll make it 6 foot.

Okay, so what's provided will be 1 foot 10 inches if you're moving it 2 feet?

Yeah.

Right now, you're- Six feet would be provided, John. All right, hold on. Right now, it's four feet.

Three foot ten inches. If we move it two feet, the setback, again, it's a rear yard, would be a total of six feet.

If you move it to five feet, I'm sorry, two more feet, three foot ten is going to be five foot ten.

Let's say six feet for argument's sake. Yeah, six feet. He's going to move it two feet, two inches.

So now you need a variance of 4 feet. Right, because the side, the rear yard variance required is 10 feet, and we have 6, so we reduce to 4 feet. That's correct.

All right. Give me your signature.

Sean Hancock. I changed it to what we just discussed, right? Yeah, just initial under...

All right, and any other questions from board members? Comments?

Joel, I have a comment. In the front of the house, the fence goes out towards the street. I would love to see that one section go away, because I don't know why it's there. It's going in- Show me where- Right here. If you're looking at the house, on the right side, see how this section here goes towards the road? If they can just cut it back here.

Oh, I see what you mean.

What would that do, Rose? Because it doesn't provide any other benefit. you know, you're looking at it from their property. So if you were standing out on the street, you're looking down the street. This is all open over here.

If you are looking at the house head on, you're looking at this extra section that really has no bearing on anything.

It's a six-foot piece. It's six feet, but he's got another driveway that goes out another 20 feet to the road.

But we're trying to prevent... people from having six-foot fences in the front yard, and this sticks out like a sore thumb. Believe it or not, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Were you out there?

No, because it's, you know, like if I was out there,

this one section if they could just cut it back. Because our goal is to try to minimize variances.

The owner of the house, you're here. Do you mind taking the mic for a second? Yeah, I got to swear again. Yeah, you're going to get sworn in.

I don't know why.

Because to me...

Our job is to minimize variances. Minimize variances. We don't want six-foot fences in our front yard.

I'm not understanding. So this piece is just sticking out, not ended?

See, this is the neighbor's house, and it sticks up beyond the neighbor's house.

Rose, I just spoke to my client. I think we have a resolution to that. The code says that you're allowed to have a four-foot fence in front of your house. Like you said, that section sort of goes toward Brook Street. If we cut that down to four feet, that eliminates it.

That's perfect. Thank you.

I'm not going to swear you in there.

So at that point, you have to make sure when we make the motion we condition that because that's not on the application.

Well, yeah, add it on to the application. No, no, no.

It'll be a condition. I'm trying to make it as clear as possible.

We'll make it a condition.

Okay. Cut the front yard six foot one section.

The portion of the front that goes toward Brook Street will be cut back to four feet. The entire length?

No, no.

Just that one section. To the face of that half. Again, you make the motion. Make sure you have that as a condition. I think that's the best way to do it.

Okay. We're good.

If you're going to speak, I have to swear you in. I have to swear in. I was trying to keep things moving along here, but that's okay. Well, we're not. It's not going that way, Johnny. State your name and address for the record.

Mary Ann Tiffany, 142 Orchard Road, Mayapath.

Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. I do.

I'm just thinking about the fence, because the fence is along the border of the neighbor's house. Right. And then we have a piece of six-foot fence where we park our cars. Does that have to go down to four feet?

No, just the portion that... As Rose said, the portion that goes out toward Brook Road, that's the only piece. That's the one section will be cut back to four feet. Okay.

That's six feet. Six feet, that'll be cut to four feet. Of length, you know, it sticks out.

Yes. The first six feet. Six feet of length, but six feet of height, so that height would have to get lowered to four feet, and that would be fine.

Okay, thank you, thank you.

Which you're allowed by code, so.

Thank you.

Okay. Anything else? Anybody else have any comments or questions? No. Anybody in the public have any comments or questions on this application?

No.

I'll look for a motion to close this hearing. So moved. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor?

Aye.

All right. Thank you. Joel, are you still sworn in for the next application? Yes, I am.

Keep it moving, Joel.

All right, application number six for Putnam County Housing Corp. for a variation of section 156-9, seeking an error of errants for permission to add three additional ADA apartments Properties located at 11-17 Seminary Hill Road, Carmel, New York. Tax map 55, excuse me, 55.6-1-19. Code requires or allows side yard 10 feet, 3.5 feet provided. Variance required of 6.5 feet. Parking side width 10 feet is required. What's provided is 9.5 feet, so a variance of .5 feet is being sought. Parking spot length is 20 feet, 19 feet exists, one foot variance required. Backup spaces is 25 feet requirement, 22.6 feet exists, 2.4 feet variance required. Parking spaces required by code is 11, only seven exist. Variants of four are required. 3,000 square feet lot area per apartment per 21,000 total is required. What exists to seven apartments. So a variance of five apartments or 15,000 square feet are required. Utilities are supposed to be on the ground as the code. Utilities are above ground. So the variance for utilities above ground is being sought. What's required is 300 square feet of recreation times seven, equaling 2,100 square feet of recreation space. Zero is provided, so variance of 2,100 square feet is being sought. And the last code requires lot coverage of 65%. What's existing is 98.2%, so a variance of 33.2% is being sought. All right, so, know this was referred to us by the planning board and that's what you're handing out now joel um you know i just the board should take in well i'll let you do your spiel but consideration the nature of what these apartments are being created for and who they're being created for and where they are Exactly.

Okay, let me just give the board and the consultants a little background. The Putnam County Housing Corporation was initiated back approximately 43 years ago, and our goal was to provide clean, nice housing, but mostly for elderly people. And we have done that. We have three up on Seminary Hill Road. We have three buildings which were built over the last 40 years. And we have approximately 60 apartments there, which, of course, are always filled. Our office was right next door down the street at this property, 11 Seminary Hill Road, and basically the building when we bought it about 43 years ago contained basically four apartments upstairs and the downstairs was used for our office where we had approximately between 13 and 15 people in our office, working in the office. We had the opportunity to buy which house, what's the name of the house that you bought? Barrister Hall, which is right next to the Carmel Firehouse, and we were able to purchase that so that, and this board, well, I don't know if this board, but previously Barrister Hall had gotten a site plan approval to have four apartments on the second floor of that office. the downstairs office would be for us, and that is still underway. And again, the way we finance this is through grant money. We're hoping to have that grant money ready now, but the first set of grants, unfortunately, was a statewide grant, but unfortunately, at that particular time, all the money went to New York City. The next set of grants now is, basically, New York City is out of it, and upstate people is where the money is going to be submitted to. And so hopefully once we get that grant, obviously we'll be able to build it. And as the chairman said, our goal here is to take our old office and create three handicap accessible apartments, which means that from our parking lot, we'll have a handicap ramp to get into the apartments. And they're all handicap accessible for elderly or any particular age. And that is... In fact, when we went to the planning board, one of the things that we said could be put in their resolution was that these apartments, even if we, let's say we sold it in 10 or 15 or 20 years, but they still would have to remain as three handicap accessible apartments. So that's set in gold, so to speak. And there are obviously a lot of variances, and the reason I gave out those variances papers I just gave you, unfortunately, the new master plan came into effect, I believe it was either April or May, and they had a whole series of conditions for quote-unquote apartments, but if you look at those conditions, they are really made for somebody that has a flat piece of land and wants to build an apartment. There's no consideration for existing buildings, and in fact, I understand maybe Maybe the zoning board attorney can confirm that, but I think the town board is actually considering possibly separating it so the conditions for buildings that are already there are not going to be as severe as you can see all the conditions that are required.

Although we meet a lot of them, and I'll just go very quickly through them.

that were compatible to adjoining properties. There is a multifamily house right across the street from us. And accessible to emergency vehicles. As you can see, we have a very wide driveway, so there's no problem with either a fire truck or an ambulance getting into our property. And there's no outdoor construction. The entire three apartments will be constructed within the building itself, so there's nothing.

Do you access that building from Brewster Road, or is it you access it from? Seminary Hill. Seminary Hill.

Yeah.

But not both ways.

No, no. Oh, no, no. Not only Seminary Hill. No.

So the shell stays intact. All the construction occurs inside. Everything occurs inside, except for the handicap ramp, which obviously will be outside.

It just passed the split of six.

Right. And then the new code says there shall be some screening. If you look at the site plan, this is our property. and two sides, the rear and the side to the north. The buildings on those are right on the property line, so there's your screen right then and there. Of course, in the front is Seminary Hill Road, and over here is the Gilead United Presbyterian Church, The church is way down over here by Church Street, and this whole area is wide open, and it's basically all lawn. If you've passed it, you'll see that it's all open. So that is open space, and it's all landscaped with lawn area.

Is there any enhancement to the face of this building?

Well, I should have had a color picture. But if you pass by, the building is pristine. If you ever passed, if you know the building at all. And we'd like you to see it. Be happy to show it to you. But it's masonry. The front is... The deck in the front is all brand new. That's been just a couple years old. And there's already three doors there so that everybody, the handicapped accessible apartments, they have their own front entrance. They don't have to go into a hallway or anything like that.

Is there new mechanicals going in, HVAC for this?

Yes. Well, yes, obviously there was. Since it was an office, there was HVAC, but that's going to have to be basically separated so each apartment can have control over their own heating and air conditioning.

That's a good question. What kind of system? Are you going to have condensers outside feeding them?

No, we'll probably do something like those split packs. Those units will be inside the apartment.

So the compressors are usually hung outside or on the roof.

Well, yeah, that's what we'll probably do. It's not going to be something that's going to take away from the beauty of the building.

Are these going to be mostly like... one person per apartment or is it like families? I'm just looking at the parking and I'm wondering.

Well, basically, before I finish this, after I finish this, I'll show you the layout. Basically, they're one-bedroom apartments, so I don't think it's going to be families. It'll probably be either one or two people at the most.

Do you put restrictions on that? Or if... Or can somebody just all of a sudden have their son and daughter and family all of a sudden move in?

They get inspected when they're multifamily, so they'd have to, every year it has to get inspected by the family inspector.

So if they did it and never had or something, Joe would give them violations for that. Under our charter, all of our apartments are inspected once a year to make sure that what is supposedly in there is in there and not in there is not in there.

It actually has a lot more restrictions than your house. Yes. They can't hang lights certain places. It's a lot more restrictions than you could do whatever you want in your home.

Who owns these buildings?

What's that? The housing report. Putnam County Housing Corporation owns the building.

Putnam County Housing Corporation. Yes. So when the grants go away, The grant allows you to fix this up?

The grant will allow us to convert what was previously our office into three apartments, and that grant will cover the money to pay for that construction.

Who paid for the building?

The building is, we've owned the building for 43 years. So that's paid off already.

Okay. Are you the project architect or do you own this? Because you keep saying we, us. Well, I'm an architect.

But as president of the corporation, I cannot do the work. We have an architect, a separate architect that is designing the apartments, which I'll show you and it'll have his name and everything.

So you're the president of this association? Yes. Okay. Okay, that makes more sense now.

And I also want you to know I've been president for 43 years.

On the front, are you doing any ramps? Or you said you're not doing any... Oh, no, no, no. No, I said actually... Because...

In other words, in the back here, we have seven spaces, one of which is going to be a handicapped space. So anyone that's handicapped, there's an old ramp back here, but we're going to put a new ramp so that anyone who's handicapped just rolls up the ramp, and then there's a big deck in front of the building, and then they just walk direct. The doors are already here, so they just walk directly to their apartment. They don't have to go into all of us.

So you're not changing the facade? It's going to be removed and relocated. Yes. You're going to build a new one, you said?

Yes. Well, it depends. If it falls apart, we'll build a new one. If it's okay, we'll put it home.

Guys, just let's stay strict to the variances. Let's not get into nuances of the ramps and that, right? So the variances, you know, there's a lot of them, but, you know, there's something to be considered here for the benefit of the county, right? The location is prime for this. It's very indicative of what's in that area. There's multiple multi-tenant areas. buildings, you know, it's walkable to town services and utilities. Sidewalks. You know, ADA compliant, not that necessarily the people who are going to rent these are going to be ADA. The ability is there for someone who is ADA. Right.

Well, we're going to obviously consider ADA people that need that kind of service.

Many of these variances are inherent with the building itself. It's not.

Right. It's existing. Right. So the utilities I was just about to talk about, the utilities are existing to serve the building. So you're just looking for variance because you're changing this use. The use. That's all. That's all.

So all of this is.

A majority of it is existing.

What isn't?

Nothing.

Well, the parking spots is different because of... Let me go into that, too, because since I wrote this letter, and I don't know if I mentioned it to Ed when we were talking about it, the new code actually says that you can... park in the frontage of your property. It's basically a street parking. So if that's allowed, we can actually reduce our variance because we have seven spaces already in the back and two spaces in the front. That's nine and we only need 11. I also might add, we've had this for 43 years. There are four apartments upstairs. You'll never guess how many cars have been there for 43 years. One car and we have all that parking in the back. Now, not to say that a handicapped person won't have a car.

It's not dedicated spots though. That's free reign for the road.

What's that?

They're not dedicated spots as if they were on your property.

No, no, I know, but the new code, the new master plan says that when you develop an apartment project, you can use the street parking as part of your parking.

But there's two hour restriction. Can you back that up? There's two hour parking restriction.

Well, so that's going to have to go.

Who's gonna have to?

The police, obviously. Police are gonna have to take this out? I mean, that's not fair. I mean, I parked there to go to the library. Like, you need to, you can't have people parking there 24-7.

Well, anyway, the application has the four car variants, but again, we are allowed to park in front of the building. And actually, the one tenant that had a car let's say when it was bad weather, did park in front and never got a ticket. So take it for whatever it means. Going on.

All right, I don't think we need to change the application. It's considered just off the record that those are available for tenants.

I wouldn't touch that, to be honest.

No, okay.

Did the code change for the parking count? when we had the code change last year.

No, the code now says it's 1.5 spaces for a one-bedroom apartment and two spaces for a two-bedroom. So upstairs we have three one-bedrooms and one two-bedroom, and downstairs we'll have the three one-bedrooms.

But did that change from the prior code, or it was always the same code?

It was the same.

That hasn't changed? No.

Okay, very quickly, just to go through the rest. Let's see. The existing building will not change the existing character of the site. They just didn't want it to change the character of the neighborhood, which consists of an attractive, well-maintained two-story building. That's Pat Cleary's comment. There is no access to Lake Glen Eider, which for some reason was in the code. And believe it or not, it says the existing front adjacent to the building must have a sidewalk. We already have a sidewalk, so that's no problem.

Is there going to be any ramp going on the front?

No, the ramp will be on the side of the building, so the front of the building will look just the way it looks like now with a nice railing and a walk across the entire front. If you look at the site plan, the ramp, this dark spot here is the ramp. And this is the walkway along Seminary Hill Road. And there's three doors, one to each apartment, so they each have their own private entrance. And the handicapped man brings them right up to the deck.

And that deck is wide enough for a wheelchair?

Yes, it definitely is wide enough. It'll be as wide as the ramp.

Okay.

Okay. Any other questions?

You guys good down there?

I'm good.

All right. Any input from the public on this application?

I'm Denise Martens. I'm the director of the Rememorial Library at 1733 Route 6.

Okay. What's your address, though?

My home address?

Yeah, just for the record.

Oh, okay. It's 303 Wellsville Avenue, New Milford, Connecticut.

Okay. Just when you leave the board, just put that information. I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it.

I do.

Thank you.

The library has no problem with, we've already talked to the housing development department. We understand about the parking. We are also talking to the building behind us about parking and we could discuss that. We're trying to talk to the county about the derelict building behind us. And also, we have just leased the old nursery school space Gilead Presbyterian Church, so there will be public space right behind the library if the derelict building ever gets addressed, where we're gonna have a garden behind the library that we've cleared out, and then we're gonna have a garden also attached to the public library space that we'll be providing on the church grounds, so people would have access to that.

Those of you.

Well, the general public always has access, but I'm just saying I know that there's no recreational space listed, but the public library is within, I don't even know, a couple hundred feet. We're going to be in both directions now where we would be able to provide space. Okay.

We're planning pushdown. Go ahead.

That's it.

All right. Good information. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right. Sign in, please. Yeah, just put your information, contact information, name, address. Anybody else wish to be heard on this application? I don't think so. All right. Any other comments from the board before I close? All right. Look for a motion to close the hearing. So moved. Second. Second by Julie. All in favor? Aye. Okay. At this point, there's no further input from the public on any application as we adjudicate. All right. So application number four, Charles Williams. I'll look for a motion.

Motion to deny.

Do I have a second? Second that. Okay, discussion. I would say that as you went through all the factors that we take into consideration for an area variance, the five factors. Out of those five, there's one I could argue maybe that's number two. Can any other method be used that does not require a variance but still allow for the benefit requested? There's probably some discussion towards that, but all other factors, I feel that it's really heavy on that side. you know it weighs it that way i tend to agree with you john as i was going through it the math is mapping and it's not in favor of the applicant unfortunately no those variants were set for a reason yeah wildlife and the code was set with the chickens for right for a reason and it's unfortunate you know it's just uh that neighborhood that that uh you know environment at this moment in that area it just doesn't work that might work unfortunately he bought bought the unit already but it sounds like he can return it he says he can return so

That lets you sleep a little easier. All right, any other comments? All right, I'll do roll call vote. Will, you for the motion, against the motion?

It's a motion to deny, so.

Motion to deny. For the motion. All right, Julie?

For.

For the motion.

For the motion.

For the motion.

For the motion.

And I'm for the motion as well, so unanimous. So this application is denied. All right, next application. Number five, Mary Ann Tiffany looked for a motion on this application.

Motion to grant with the gazebo as amended and the six foot fence on Brook Street, the first section of the six foot fence will be reduced to four feet going towards Brook Road.

Do I have a second? Six feet. It's six feet.

Six feet.

No, six feet also. Six feet. Roughly.

The first six feet. It's six foot by six foot.

The first six foot section.

Yeah, say the first six foot section. That way it's just clear for Ed because he's got to enforce it.

The first six foot section. Yep.

Perfect. And it's six feet for the rear, the ten foot requirement. It's now changed to six feet from three foot ten and four feet from six foot two.

As amended.

As amended. Okay. All right. Do I have a second? Second. Second. Any discussion?

I'm sorry. You said the front, they're going to move it 2.9 feet. So did we mention that?

Yes. As amended. Okay.

Okay. As amended. I read it out just to clarify for Dawn. All right. All in favor? Aye. Okay. That's approved as noted. And application number six, Putnam County Housing Corp. I'll look for a motion. Motion to grant. We'll have a second. Second. Any discussions on this one? Comments? Concerns? All right. All in favor? Aye. And that's granted. All right, minutes from June 25th, 2026. I'll look for a motion to accept. No amendments, I don't think, Rose.

No, but I will recuse myself. You don't have to. No, you don't have to. In fact, I tried to watch the meeting that night, and I couldn't watch it. Take care. Good night, guys.

All right, so Rose is recusing herself. I'll look for a motion to accept the minutes. Motion to accept. Do I have a second? Second. Julie? All in favor? Aye. And motion to adjourn this meeting this evening. Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you.