City Council - Special Meeting

Whenever you're ready.

I think we... Yeah, we're ready. And Marissa, wasn't Marissa coming? I don't think to start, but...

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Carmel City Hall. It's Thursday, May or June 4th. The time is flying. And we're here to have a special meeting, and it's going to be a closed session only today. And I'd like to call this meeting to order. Roll call, please.

Council Member Barron?

Here.

Council Member Booter? Here.

Here.

Mayor Pro Tem Delves.

Here.

Council Member Drammel. Here. Mayor Byrne.

Here.

All are present.

All right, thank you. Thank you, everybody, for being here today. It's unusual to have even a small crowd for just a closed session. I'm going to have our city attorney read us into the closed session, and then we'll do public comment.

Yes, Mayor. This is a public employee appointment pursuant to government code section 54957. The title is city administrator.

All right, thank you. like to go out to public comment on that subject only, please? Are all of you going to be speaking? Okay, good. Looking forward to it.

I have to run, so I'm just going to say what I have to say first. I wanted to first raise the issue of the closed session. I think that my understanding of the Brown Act is that you all probably need to take up that matter here in open session first if it is something you want to take up. But such an important topic for the town, such an amazing opportunity to direct the future of the town. seems to me could benefit from as much public input as possible. I think the way that the city attorney just read that and the way it was noticed as an actual appointment today is what the city community thinks it is and therefore thinks that you have a particular person in mind that you're gonna discuss a contract for today. Since I'm gathering that's not what's happening, I think it would be wonderful to re-notice that so that it's correctly understood by this community to be about process and about the next steps. And then again, take that same opportunity to bring it out into the public. and get as much information as you can from the committee about how to go forward. And then just for myself, I'll say, I was recently at an event where I had this sort of table of people talking about how to get the best people for a job. And they were talking about all these creative ways that cities handle this sort of thing. So of course a recruiter is a normal process, but also there are often kind of prospecting teams that go out and find people who otherwise wouldn't necessarily be considering, you know, trying to change jobs. So you get people who might even be even better than the recruiter would find. So I just thought that was a really intriguing idea and I wanted to support that as something to discuss publicly. So again, just a vote for re-noticing to get this like so the public really understands what's going on today and getting a public process. Thank you.

Appreciate the comment. And we heard you. I'm going to let Brian make a comment about that after all the speakers. Go ahead. Hi, Cindy.

Good morning, mayor, council and staff. For the record, my name is Cindy Lloyd. I understand that today's closed session will include discussion regarding your approach to searching for a new city manager slash administrator. Years ago, I served on a panel of citizens, asked what qualifications we would like to see in a new hire. We met the headhunter team at City Hall. My suggestions then, and it would be today, that the city manager be familiar with the city's history, dedicated to preserving her character remain independent from marketing organizations, know, understand, and uphold Carmel's general plan, municipal code, and all the regulations governing commissions, boards, and committees. It goes without saying that honesty, integrity, and openness are foundational qualifications. A communication style that is easily understood would be helpful. I wish you good luck knowing you will all do your best on behalf of Carmel's future. Thank you.

Thank you, Cindy. Who's next?

Hi, good morning. Christy Ramers. Yeah, I was actually very confused by reading the staff report and seeing that it was for an appointment because then we're all thinking, well, who is the person that we're going to be talking about today? So if it is process, I do feel like it should have been noticed process. And I do also agree with Victoria and Cindy that it should be a public process, that we should be able to give some feedback as to what we imagine we'd like to have for a new city administrator. It's our future. It's somebody who's going to be with us for a long time. So I think that that's really important. Yeah, that's it. That's my hope.

Appreciate that. Thank you. Anybody else?

Yep.

We have one online.

Tim or Nancy, go ahead.

I think you have one more here.

Oh, hold on a second. Good morning. My name's Arlene Ichian, and I... I'm not familiar well with the way this was noticed, but I do think that this is an excellent opportunity given the circumstances and the history behind the appointment of a person to this position to invite sincerely, public input and guidance, if you will, based on people's experiences in current and past jobs that they've held. And I think, again, this is an excellent opportunity for people from the public, be they residents, small business owners, interested members of the public, to come forward and offer their best suggestions, and they would be suggestions to help guide this process in the most advantageous way for the city. I think it's an excellent suggestion that Cindy Lloyd brought up to make sure that candidates by and large are familiar with or at least given a tutorial about the city's history because it is a unique and interesting history. And I think that the knowledge of that as part of Carmel is very valuable and helpful going into such an important position as the city administrator. And I understand this is for the city administrator as opposed to the city manager. Do you? Anyway. So... One additional suggestion is that the citizens, if you will, committee, be that an appointed committee, also be given the invitation to suggest traits, characteristics, not only that, but character items that candidates would be expected to provide. And again, wherever possible, offer, think about offering the opportunity of giving you know, casual tutorials to candidates who appear to qualify and are interested in the position. I think that would benefit the city as well as its residents, owners, et cetera. So one last word for independence in terms of individuals thinking on their own what best characteristics or experiences can I bring to this position to best serve the city? And what is my vision of Carmel past, present, and future? And again, here, a citizen's group could help with the input of a list of characteristics that would help guide the selection process. Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you, Arlene. Hang tight, Tim. We're almost to you.

Good morning. My name is Vince Kohler. I'm a resident here in Carmel. And I have advised several mayors up and down the state on this particular process. And I will say that I think... But I live here, so I care most about this place. I think you're about to embark on a process that's incredibly important. It's the most important, probably, that you do as a council. I do think... we should separate the procedural from the specifics of a person. And anything procedural, as I'm sure you all know, Brown Act not suggests, but dictates that that happens in public. Anything about a specific person, of course, can be in closed session. So even the discussion about whether or not you should go into closed session on this item should happen in public. Secondly, I think you have the benefit now that you have an assistant administrator or acting administrator, so you have a little more time. And I would say as far as the input of the citizens in this process, It may seem sometimes in a city that doing things quickly and efficiently and getting things done quickly wins out over involving the public. It never pays off in the long run because you end up having headaches later. And there is no more important thing than the trust between the citizens and an administrator stepping into this job And this process actually starts today. As you've heard from others, my fellow Carmelites, there's a great deal of interest, and we want that person to get a good start and start in this town with the trust of the citizens. And that is best done by having a very, very transparent process starting today about even the process. That includes, by the way, The hiring of a search firm, the guidance that you give a search firm, all of that can be done publicly and should be done publicly. There are very, very smart people in this room and outside of this room in this town that would love to weigh in. And I can assure you the selection will be easier and the candidates that you'll find will be better candidates if you go through that extra step. And again, you have the benefit that you have an acting administrator, and so we're not in this dire mode of, like, we've got to fill this position by next week. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, Tim, or Nancy, it's probably Nancy, you want to go next, or both of you?

Yes, hi. This is Nancy, and you'll hear from Tim to follow. We'll be brief. Definitely understand the benefits in trying to fill this critical role quickly. However, as mentioned by other speakers, extending the time with public input is going to be worthwhile. better to do this right than to do it fast as this is critically a critical position for at least we hope at least eight years for our village. For the benefit of transparency we're suggesting that you publicly share current assumptions needs and wants of the current department heads in our city because clearly the city staff has their views into what they're looking for, but to also publicly share assumptions on the use and process and the roles of a recruiter on this path. For the caliber of candidates we'd like to see, we believe their services of a recruiter and high touch are essential. but they would, of course, supplement the staffing inside of our HR department, which is very capable, but it would be a partnership effort And at least one public input session on the attributes that are important and weighted should be held. So once a listing of those characteristics are presented or prepared to then again weight them in a public setting, more than just in requesting of the public your suggestions in an email solicitation. and at least residents and business participation finally in a panel to screen the final candidates as we'd assume is also relevant that the council would be instrumentally involved in that same final selection process that would be executed. And as we recall, and I have seen in the press in recent months over the course of the past year, an open and transparent approach has been the case in other peninsula cities just in our neighborhood in recent times. So I'll wrap with that and pass to Tim.

Thank you, Nancy. Good morning, Council. Tim Toomey here. Just to echo the previous speakers, community input when hiring a city administrator is vital to establish the ideal candidate profile, identify local priorities, and outline leadership traits. It ensures the new executive is accountable not just to city council, but to the residents and stakeholders they serve. As an example, central areas where community input provides direction could include top local priorities, such as identifying critical issues the administrator must address, such as budget challenges of affordable housing or infrastructure maintenance, leadership and communication styles, highlighting whether residents want a diplomatic consensus builder and or an operations focus leader who improves day-to-day department efficiency, and desired character and values, defining the community's expectations for transparency, unquestionable ethics, and approachability. Local governments typically collect this community feedback and appoint community-led advisory panels. I think we should do the same. Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you, Tim and Nancy. Anyone else? Anyone else here? All right, seeing none, I'm going to look to our city attorney. We take advice from him and some of the issues that were brought up in terms of Brown Act violations and so on. So I'm gonna ask Brian if you could go through some of the concerns that were brought up Clear that up?

Yeah, I'll be glad to do that. First of all, the Brown Act under the government code section 54957 authorizes closed sessions with regards to the appointment of the city administrator. And that would include a discussion regarding the appointment process. So you could proceed in closed session to have that discussion. With respect to the comments by the members of the public. Several of them commented about wanting to have a public process, and you can do that as well. And you could discuss in your closed session this evening how that public process would roll out, or if you would prefer to have that discussion in an open session, We could schedule this for an open session agenda item merely because it can be done in closed session doesn't mean it has to be done in closed session. So you could have an open session item to discuss process including public input on what is being looked at by the public as to what they believe is important in terms of qualifications for city administrator in terms of what kind of a recruiting process might be done and the various other comments that were made I I took a bunch of notes and and there were some good suggestions that were made and you could certainly So you have multiple options. So to summarize, you could have a discussion in closed session today about process as to how you wish to proceed. That process could include scheduling an open session item for input from the public on what they're looking for. When it comes down to selection of a recruiting firm, if that is the direction as to how the council is going to proceed, that can be done in public as well. I know the city of Monterey did that when they selected their current city manager. So that's an option available to you as well. So given that there's been multiple public comments about the subject, the Brown Act does allow for the council at this point to have a brief discussion with respect to what you heard from the public during the public comment, if you wish to do that.

I was just going to ask you that. So thank you for bringing that up. I have another question. What is it that we cannot do today in a closed session regarding the subject? that would be a breach of the Brown Act?

Well, you can't talk about anything other than the appointment of the city administrator, and that would include the appointment process for the city administrator. You wouldn't be able to talk about other topics other than that.

Okay. But anything under that title we're able to talk about?

Yes. Okay.

All right. I just want to make sure that we all understand that. Would the council like to, given the comments that have happened, does anybody want to make a comment about the process and this session itself, how you feel about it? I mean, clearly we could just say we're not going to do this and we're going to schedule an open session to do the same thing. But since we haven't had a discussion about this at all, there's probably some value in at least getting a game plan in terms of what we will do in public.

The only caveat I would add to that is what the Brown Act says is briefly respond to comments, so we shouldn't be spending an hour and a half on this, but the Brown Act doesn't give a time limit on how long that is, but Certainly the council members could give input on this particular issue, especially with respect to whether you want to even go into closed session or would prefer to schedule this conversation in open session. So is putting the timer at three minutes acceptable? I don't think you need to put in a timer. I just want to make sure. Go ahead, Hans. Explain what the Brown Act says.

Yeah, go ahead, Hans. Yeah, it's interesting because I had kind of come to the same conclusion over the past couple days, the past week, as pretty much universally we heard from the public. When I look at the topics that I was going to talk about today in terms of the process, should we do a search firm or should we not do a search firm? Should we do a statewide search or a national search? Yeah. You know, it's an RFP or an RFQ. Like, none of that requires a closed session. And I think getting it right at the beginning and building trust, because trust sort of in the country and even in this community is kind of at low ebb, I think it makes sense to wait. And it sounds like we can only respond in public session to the comments today for a limited time anyway. So... I think it was a great point that we have the luxury of having a fantastic acting city administrator. We're not in this position of having to move at the speed of light. And so I think from a, from the standpoint of building trust, having an open and transparent process, I think we should honestly not even go into closed session and just reschedule the meeting as an open session to talk about the recruitment, the strategy and the process for the recruitment.

Okay. Yeah. I'd like to point out that this hasn't been done in a long time in this town, and we're new to this, some of us, so we greatly appreciate the comments, and that was well said. Go ahead, Bob.

Yeah, I hadn't really given it much thought whether this was even appropriate to be in closed session or not. We just kind of thought it was.

We need to start something.

We have to start somewhere. And I think to the public, everything you said makes complete sense. Of course, this is not a backroom decision. It's our decision because you elected us to make it, but public input is paramount. I've actually done two City Council recruitments in another state, so I at least have some experience with it and in both cases they were very, very public processes. So I was trying to, it's a good way to frame the question, Hans, is there anything on my list of stuff that really requires closed session The only one, and it's probably no, but is in terms of recruiters, at some point it's like, okay, it's the process of to whom do we reach out and what information are we soliciting from them? I don't think those require a closed session. How about any, and I guess if we issue a request more of a request for credentials is probably the better word, although maybe it's a request for proposal because I think we would ask them to come in with a number. That wouldn't, would any of that be in closed session?

It can be an open session. Maybe that's the way to answer it. It could also be in closed session if you're talking about the appointment process. But as I've said, you can discuss this in an open session. So if you want to schedule an open session to discuss everything you just said, you can do that.

Yeah. No, my only, I just drove back three hours to get here on time. So it's like, I'd really like to keep going. But I think Hans's point is right. Alessandra?

Thank you, Mayor. I agree with everything I've heard from my fellow council members. We shouldn't rush because the stakes are really too high. It should be an open and public process. So I do not think we should go into the closed session today. And we should schedule an open session to discuss everything, process, strategy, hear from the public what characteristics they want to hear. I think we got off to a good start with some of the comments made, especially Cindy, appreciate what you had to say. But it's really important that we do this right. It's just too important a decision and I don't want us to get off to a bad start and I certainly don't want the community to feel that they were not part of this process because they are very valuable and their input is very valuable. So let's get this right. Let's not go into closed session today and re-notice it with an open session where we can have that full open discussion.

Jeff? I'm fine with all this. My only comment, the only thing that gives me heartburn about this is having members of the public interview candidates. I think they're going to be, my hope is that we would have candidates that don't want don't want their current employers to know that they are being interviewed for this job, and the way to protect that particular part of this process is to do that in closed session. To the question about internal or external, I have some thoughts which I would be happy to share here. I absolutely believe that we should use an external firm. I don't think that it makes me a tiny bit uncomfortable to have any staff involvement in this issue at all because staff reports to this person and I generally do not think it's appropriate for, I don't think it's really appropriate let me say like, it's not appropriate for Brandon to be a part, to Brandon to have a choice in who his boss is going to be. And I think that goes for.

Are we starting to move into a little?

Well, I'm commenting on the things that I've heard. Am I allowed to do that? Yes, you are. Okay. Sorry. Yeah.

You'll stop. You'll stop if we go too far.

Yeah. So I'm commenting on the things I've heard. So I don't, I don't, so I talked, now let me figure out where I was. I talked about not having public involvement in the interview room, keeping, I think, also Okay, back to the recruiter. I think that having those records not in the city's hands, like this comes up before, I would not want the city, like I wouldn't want the city to have not, like I wouldn't want there to be records here of all the people that applied and didn't make it into the final three or I'm just picking a number. So I think those records, I think that stuff are considerations in hiring an external person and not in doing that internally.

So my, what I'm, perceiving as we're getting into some detail with respect to a number of these issues. And as I said before, you can briefly respond to public comment. I think we've kind of reached that point. I know we haven't heard from you. But if the issue is basically, as you heard from a number of the members of the public, and there were a number of comments that were made by several members of the public and certainly can respond to those. But I'm sensing that the primary issue is whether or not if this closed session would be held or in the alternative instead of having the closed session that you would schedule it for an open session. So then there could be a more detailed discussion in that open session about some of the specifics that we heard today.

Yeah, I sort of agree with Bob in terms of We're here, and I think it would be nice to have a closed session just to frame the problem that we need to solve and then schedule the open meetings. But we've got three votes that say they want to do open meeting, I think. So I think it's best to probably proceed with that. There were, right? You wanted to just move forward with open sessions, not do a closed session? Okay. And Hans, same thing? Jeff? So do I. Okay. All right. So... We're good to just move forward.

I can add that under the Brown Act, you can always talk about scheduling a future agenda item. So you can do that here as well. So you can have a discussion about when, for example, you want to schedule the open session for the discussion on the recruiting process. All right.

There are a lot of things going on in the town, lots of meetings scheduled, and it's sometimes very difficult to figure out where we can do things in between. I know that some people have some vacations or they're heading out of town. So I'm not even sure that we can do that quickly.

Could I just, I'm sorry to interrupt. You can make a suggestion. Just make a suggestion that maybe NOVA could send us one of those Google emails where we can provide our schedule availability, because Dale is correct that there is a lot of things coming up in June that people.

Well, there's that question as to, obviously, well, first of all, you can have this discussion at a special meeting if it's going to be an open session item. That could happen at a special meeting or at a regular meeting. And I'll just say, You may want to think about having it at a regular meeting rather than a special meeting. To get attendance. Since that's on the agenda. It's on the city's calendar. The public's aware of it. But that doesn't mean you couldn't have it at a special meeting.

All right, well, we have our agenda-setting meeting next Tuesday, correct, at 10 o'clock. So I think that's the time that Mayor Pro Tem Delves and I, with maybe some input that you get in general for scheduling NOVA, maybe we can just see when we might do it otherwise. But if not, we'll just have to squeeze it into the agenda. But this isn't something we really want to squeeze in.

No, I'd like to hear from my colleagues. I think these should be special meetings because you know what happens in the regular meetings.

We saw this week.

Yeah.

Well, you do have a special meeting on the Monday before your regular meeting as opposed to... Those aren't special anymore.

They're very special. Everything's special. So I would say that I have trips planned this summer. I think everybody does. I'm sort of extrapolating. I would prefer that we do it here, that we find the time right now to do the next one, that we sort of keep the train moving. That's kind of important to me. I will also say that I keep my city calendar. Nova, I think staff knows this. I do keep my city calendar sort of up to date with like my vacation plans and my other meeting plans. So Nova, when you, you know, I assume that it would take all five of us to do this. So my calendar is pretty much up to date. And I would encourage everybody to sort of do that because usually, you know, a lot of times when we have, when we try to do this, it takes weeks and weeks and weeks to schedule a special meeting. So that would be of help to NOVA. Okay. I'm flexible.

So Jeff, so I'm gone in June. You're what? I'm gone from the 15th through the end of the month. So I'm basically around next week.

The only day I'm here next week is Friday.

What's the schedule look like for this room Fridays?

Could I just add, I believe Jeff and I just had a scheduling notice from Tom Ford that we're going to have a police department architect review from 11 to 1 that Friday, the 12th.

Okay. That leaves lunch out? That's still okay?

Yeah, I have the chamber's calendar up, and I do show that there is the police public works building meeting ad hoc meeting from 11 to 1. That's the only other booking.

There's also the notion of if you have a meeting at 9 in the morning or something, it does have implications for who can come to the meeting. 3 to 5 would be okay.

We do that now for our special meetings. Is everybody okay with three to five-ish? Obviously, we could keep going.

Three to five on Friday the 12th?

Yes.

I am. Sorry, they have two meetings that day.

No, I mean, we need to make it work, especially with people being gone the rest of June. So it sounds like that might be our only chance to make it work. So let's make it work. Hans?

It works for me. Okay. Wow. That was easy. Saved Nova a lot of time. All right, so it looks like we're talking about having the discussion that we were going to have today and other subjects, because now it's sort of open. We can revise the agenda to fit what we think we need to do, correct?

Yes, it'll be an open session item, and it'll be for discussion. the process for appointment of the city administrator. And it could include all of the thoughts that were shared today, as well as whatever other information the public wishes to share.

All right. Very good.

Can I, would that include us being able to provide, I just want to make sure it's agenda so that we can provide direction for staff to provide to issue an RFP or an RFQ? Yeah, the answer is yes. Great.

And I would encourage the public, you know, that you have emails to all of us and the city administrator. So please give us your thoughts because we have till, when do we have to send this out? Is it, it's a special meeting, right?

Yes, that's a 24-hour notice.

Okay, so we have plenty of time to really fine-tune what we're going to do here, and we can have a discussion on Tuesday to sort of pull in all the information that we have at that point.

So my recommendation would be, even though the Brown Act allows for a 24-hour notice on a special meeting, given what I've heard from the public and the council today, you may want to start putting out the notice Wednesday. I don't necessarily say today, but as soon as you can. so that the public that's not here or maybe not be watching it becomes aware of it. You could put whatever your process is, posting it on the website or however you choose to do that.

Okay. Well, we know the meeting's going to happen, so it's just what's in the agenda at this point. So maybe we plan on getting it out on Tuesday. Is that reasonable? That gives at least three days.

Well, today's Thursday meeting. Next Tuesday. For example, this afternoon, something could go out onto the city's website saying there will be an agenda item on June 12th commencing at 3 o'clock for a discussion regarding the appointment process for the city administrator so that that's out there. I know that there's a Friday letter. There may be other processes to get the word out rather than waiting until next week.

Nova and I were just talking. We'll do a save the date, be a constant contact like we do, and we'll make sure everyone's aware of that. And then when we have the materials to put out, we'll put it out in advance.

Okay.

Well done. Anything else anyone wants to say before we close this out? Do we still get lunch? I think so. I think we have to. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for showing up today. It was very productive. And I think you've seen this council is very transparent. We have gone out of our way without trying to be transparent, and we very seldom have closed meetings unless we absolutely have to. So we thank you for your encouragement, and we're going to move forward with your suggestions. Thank you very much. We stand adjourned.