Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

One. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to the city

of Canby Planning Commission meeting. We will get started with our flag salute. If you'll all stand with me, please. Gentlemen, if you'll remove your hats. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Alright. Gentlemen, start your engines. No. Wait a minute.

That's a different thing. Alright. I wanna welcome you all here this evening. We've got some business we need to take care of before we get into our public hearings. This is the city of Canby public planning commission meeting for 04/27/2026.

You get to listen to me tonight. Our illustrious chairman is out of town on business tonight, and so when he's gone, you get me. And so that's the way that is, And we wanna welcome everybody, those of you who are in the room, those of you who are online. And we've got a couple of things we need to take care of. First of all, we've got a set of draft meetings for 02/10/2025, and that is going to be a we need to get those things taken care of, so we will take a let's see, we had Ewart, Jarosh, Llewellyn, and Ellison.

Ellison is no longer with us, so it's just Jarosh and I that were in on that meeting.

I would suggest pushing that to the next May 11. Okay. And then the other set though, there are enough Okay. Commissioners that were there for December 8.

So on that February 10, we're going to push that on to the next meeting. We'll pass that one on by. The next one we have is for December 8. We had myself, Hutchinson, McCarthy, Llewellyn, and Driscoll. If anyone has any modifications, changes, or we can have a motion to either accept or deny.

I move that we accept.

And I will second that. All those in favor, second.

Aye.

Opposed? Passes. And so we will put those to bed. Those minutes are accepted. And we have taken care of those. February will move on. December has been accepted. Citizen input on non agenda items. Do we have any citizens in the audience that would like to bring anything to us that is not on the agenda tonight? I see no one rushing the microphone, so people move on.

We have no old business to take care of, and we have no new business at this time to take care of. So that is going to push us right to our public hearing, which is what I think most everyone is here to hear tonight. And, we were going to go into that. So what we are going to hear, to testify, as I said just before we got started, to testify during a public hearing, please fill out a testimony slash comment card and hand it to our recording, secretary. If you would like to speak at the public hearing.

If moving forward, this would be for future reference. If you want to speak during a Zoom meeting or if you want to speak during the Zoom access, you would need to do that and have it to the clerk prior to 3PM before the meeting, before the next meeting. So that was just for future reference if you wanna do that. You need to have your name and your phone number and so on. So you've reached the Planning Commission office and talk to him about that if you wanna do that in a Zoom format.

Tonight, we are going to be hearing Doctor twenty five dash o three and CUP 25DashO two. Doctor 20 Doctor stands for design and review and CUP stands for conditional use permit. And so getting into that, we are going to read our public hearing format. I'm a little rusty at this, so you guys are gonna get to bear with me on it. Tonight, there is a matter before the hearing body that requires a public hearing.

All questions must be directed through the chair, which is myself this evening. Any evidence to be considered must be submitted to the hearing body for public access. All written testimony to be received for both and is, for and against shall be summarized by staff and presented briefly to the hearing body during the staff report. Testimony and evidence must be directed toward the applicable, review criteria contained in the staff report and the comprehensive plan or other land use regulations which the person believes to apply to this decision. Failure to raise an issue accompanied by statements or evidence sufficient to afford the decision makers and the parties the the opportunity to respond to the issues may preclude appeal to the Land Use Board of Appeals based on that issue.

Conflict of interest. At this time, I would ask that any member of the hearing body who has a conflict of interest, please indicate the nature and the extent of the conflict and whether you intend to participate or abstain from the hearing of the present matter.

No. No conflict. No conflict.

I also have no conflict. Does anyone have any question for any members of the Planning Commission? Seeing none, we will go to ex parte contact. Also, if any member of the hearing body has had any ex parte contact with anyone prior to this hearing, including a visit to the site, please declare the nature and the extent of such contact at this time.

No contact?

No contact. No specific visit, but I drive past the site frequently.

Same here. I drive past the site multiple times a day, but no conflict.

I have had no contact. I also drive by the site daily. So, anybody have any con any comments to the commissioners? Seeing none, we will move on. Does any member of the audience have any questions for any commissioners regarding ex parte contact or conflict of interest?

Seeing none, the public hearing will be conducted as follows. First, we will have the staff report that will take approximately five minutes. We will have questions, if any, by the hearing body or the staff. The chair will open the public hearing for testimony. We will get here first hear the applicant, which will be about twenty minutes.

The proponents will be about three minutes each. The opponents will be about three minutes each. Then we will have rebuttal by the applicant approximately ten minutes, and then the chair will close the public hearing. I might say at this time that if there are the opponents or the proponents, if you have one person that would like to speak for a group of you, you can add your time together so you can speak like, if you have one person that wants to speak for a group of you, you can add your minutes together and speak for a longer period of time. We just add ask you to kind of keep keep keep that corral as as if you can.

Okay? So when the chair closes the public hearing, then we will have questions, if any, by the hearing body, and then we will have discussion by the hearing body. Once that is done, a decision shall be made by the hearing body at the close of the hearing, or the matter will be a or or we will have a disc excuse me. Let me redo that. A a decision shall be made by the hearing body at the close of the hearing or the matter will be continued to a date certain in the future.

This will be the only notice of that date you will receive. Does anyone have any questions of the process? Great. Okay. We will then go on to Brianna. Please enlighten us on our

Alright.

Meeting this evening.

Here we go. Thank you very much, Vice Chair Ewart. You did a wonderful job. My name is Brianna. I'm an associate planner for the city of Canby. And tonight, I am presenting the senior living and memory care design review and conditional use review.

There we go.

Okay. Alright.

So we'll start off with the existing conditions of the site. You can see here in the image, it is in the Southeast Corner of South Ivy Street and Southeast 13th Avenue, address 1300 South Ivy Street. It's approximately 2.6 acres. It has two existing unimproved driveways. Currently, it has a house and a storage structure and cute little garden.

It has existing curbs but no sidewalks. The intersection itself is improved with ADA facilities, but either frontage has not been improved yet. This was previously designated as a special area that was removed in 2019, so it no longer applies, but we have folks who know the history of Canby, so I did wanna mention that. A little more context here on the aerial image. You can see to the North, we have single family residential across Ivy. We have the Canby Swim Center and Ackerman Center directly north. We have some specialty retail,

I'll go ahead and call

it directly south of it, and we also have single family residential to the South and a senior slash assisted living campus across Ivy to the South. Here's the zoning. It's the same sort of aerial we're looking at here overlaid with our zoning map. It's zoned R one low density residential and is surrounded by R 1 and R 1.5, which is medium density residential. And it is, again, adjacent to a senior living campus zoned R one with a CUP for their use as well.

The proposed project is a two story 56,500 square foot senior care facility. It will have 80 assisted living beds and 22 memory care beds for a total of 102. There will be 54 parking spaces for the facility including ADA van spaces. There are four independent living duplexes also planned for the site at a future time, but you will be sort of approving their general footprint if you do go ahead and approve this. So, we'll talk about those in a little less detail, but they are proposed for the site in the future.

And, that's eight units and two parking spaces per unit there. Here is a site plan of the site. Just to orient us again, Ivy Street and 13th Avenue here at the Northwest Corner is the intersection of those two streets. You can see the primary facility is broken up into sort of the more general senior care and then the mare care wing is to the South. The future duplex building envelopes are also shown, associated parking, fire truck turnaround in the Southeast Corner, 10 foot right of way dedication on Southeast 13th to accommodate Thank you.

To accommodate the improvements there, and we will dig into the specifics on the site plan more as I go through my presentation. So, the applications again are conditional use for specifically a nursing home use in the R 1 zone. It's a bit of an antiquated term, but that is the the overall use that we're looking at here as senior living care. And then the design review type three and that applies to new structures, parking reduction considerations, and access spacing. Here are the chapters of the development code that apply to the proposal.

Parking, zoning, signs, lighting, access, sign review, and conditional uses. So, first, we'll start with the traffic analysis. The analysis at the intersection was evaluated with the current proposal using a five year horizon. So, looking out into operations through 2031. That assumes five years of background growth beyond the expected year of occupancy, which we anticipate to be this year, if not very early next year, but we'll see.

So, just to kind of clarify what those scenarios are for the study, the first would be a 2031 no build scenario. So, those are traffic volumes that are existing plus the background growth over that five year period. 2031 build scenario are those two factors plus the traffic associated with the proposed use. The intersection is expected to continue to meet the mobility target during the peak hours in 2031 with the added project traffic estimated to increase the VC ratio by 1% during peak hours. What is that?

Volume to capacity ratio measures intersection sufficiency by dividing actual traffic demand by maximum sustainable capacity. Ratios below point eight five or 85% indicate adequate capacity while values approaching one signify congested traffic. And the table here pulled directly from the traffic study shows that 1% increase of the volume to capacity ratio were this to be approved. So, for the 2031 no build scenario, you're looking at a VC of point six one. If this were approved and were operational for the next five years, you'd be looking at a VC ratio of point six two.

Those ratios equate to a level of service b, which means stable flow, light traffic according to the traffic engineers. So, here are just more of the raw trip numbers also included in the traffic analysis. AM peak 19 trips, PM peak 25, weekday total two eighty two. Off street parking. I'm going to approach this at a high level and let the applicant explain their request.

They know their business better than I do. They have requested an exception to the parking standards based on industry experience and specific staffing numbers. The residents of the facility, so that 102 beds, none of those folks will be driving or have cars stored on the site. Parking demand will be from staff, visitors, and support services and explained more in-depth in the staff report, we do support their parking modification request. Off street loading.

You can see on this small table here the square feet and number of berths for loading required for commercial and industrial uses. So, two loading berths would be required by standard given their square footage at 56.5, but the use category for residential facility doesn't neatly fall into commercial or industrial. The site plan shows one loading berth that is slightly wider than a commercial use and meets the industrial use length, so they've kind of designed their own loading berth that they believe will be sufficient for their residential facility use. Just some things to point out about the use, deliveries would consist of items used at the site, there won't be any retail sales, industrial activity. So, applicant requests approval of this deviation from the loading birth standard as well and staff does support that request.

For the R1 development standards, nursing homes, again, are listed as a conditional use in the R1 zone, so that's where you come in approved by Planning Commission for conditional uses. This chart shows the dimensional standards for the R1 zone and the civil plans submitted by the applicant show compliance with all of these standards. I do wanna mention that they have proposed pervious pavement for parking spaces and emergency turnaround, not to the actual drive aisle because we see higher traffic sort of in the drive aisle, so we wanted to kind of discourage it there, but they have proposed it elsewhere on the site to meet that 60% impervious surface maximum. Signs, I'm bringing these up because for conditional uses, Planning Commission does have the discretion to either approve signs right here, right now or delegate that approval to planning staff, sort of trusting us that we would match it up to similar uses that are just in different zones. Because our one signage allocation is very small, but because this is conditional use, we would probably allow a bit more signage if you sign off on that.

We don't have, I would say, well, we have this this elevation, but I would say we don't have sort of plan level details about every proposed sign they might have, but these are the two that I could pull from the plan submitted. And, I would say they're pretty typical. You have a monument sign there and then you also have That is sort of the portico entrance. If you picture sort of a hotel entrance, how they have that overhang there with sort of those pillars there, so that's where that other sign would be. In terms of outdoor lighting standards, the plan conforms to lighting zone number one, which is typical for residential zones.

I'm gonna give you a little bit of science here. Lighting studies are done projecting foot candles and foot candles are actually the amount of light that reaches a surface. Our code regulates lighting by lumens, which is actually the light of the amount of visible light emitted. So, we have a bit of a disconnect just in terminology here, but essentially one lumen per square foot of light shed equals one foot candle. So, to give you an example, given here that the maximum for shielded fixtures in this LZ one lighting zone is 2,600 lumens.

If you had a 10 foot pole with a light on the top and that light were to cover a 100 square feet shining down kind of in a square, then that would be 26 lumens on the ground. I know, some science for you. But, all that to say, to point out that, what we're mostly concerned about, right, is any overspill into the neighboring properties. And, you can see here that overspill at its max would be 0.5 foot candles. So, not even a full foot candle would be encroaching over any property lines.

Access limitations. So, they are requesting one full access driveway on Southeast 13th Avenue and one restricted, right in, right out access driveway on South Ivy Street. Both these streets are arterials and their spacing standards are 330 feet from intersections or other driveways. This is a corner lot with dimensions of three thirty by three fifteen. So, pretty much anywhere an access is proposed would need an exception.

Here are the specifics for that exception they are requesting here. Again, to orient you Ivy Street on the west and 13th to the north here. There are existing driveways adjacent to this site, 10 feet and 110 feet south of the southern property line and a local street access onto Large Street 60 feet east of the property line. The subject site is proposing their accesses two forty and two hundred feet respectively from the intersection. So, again, an exception would be required regardless of the access location due to existing factors.

One thing that was analyzed in the traffic study sort of preliminarily was the vision clearance and that has been showed to be expected to meet standards that will be verified in field during preconstruction. For site and design review standards, we have a design matrix in sixteen forty nine of our development code and that is broken down in the staff report more thoroughly, but here we can just say that if the development proposal reaches a minimum of 60% of those total possible points from the matrix and at least 10% of those points are from low impact development elements, then it's considered to be compatible. And as you can see here in this table, they've achieved 67% of total points and 19 of those are LID. So, we would consider this compatible in terms of site and design review. In terms of conditional uses, there are four primary approval criteria.

The first is that it will be consistent with the policies of the comp plan, the development code, and other applicable titles. And their staff did not identify any policies in the comp plan or other policies and other documents that would be inconsistent with proposed use. And, again, the same conditional use has been approved in the R 1 zone elsewhere in the city as well as the R 1.5. The characteristics of the site, this is b, the characteristics of the site are suitable for the proposed use considering size, shape, design, location, topography, existence of improvements and natural features. As stated previously, this does meet the development standards of the base zone.

It does include frontage improvements and we did receive comments from utility providing agencies stating that the connections have to be made but there are sufficient utilities adjacent to the site. Last two requirements for conditional uses are public facilities and services exist, so we address that here and it's also reflected in the conditions of approval in the staff report. And, the last one will be, will not alter the character of the surrounding area in a manner which substantially limits or precludes the use of surrounding properties. The surrounding properties are all pretty much developed already. It's residential, it is swim center, and it is more senior care across Ivy Street.

So, in general, I would say that the character of the surrounding area is compatible with the proposed use and especially considering this is a constrained remnant corner parcel that can't really expand Southeast, pretty much anywhere else. The parcel is the parcel here. In terms of comments received during the public comment period, we received four public comments and we also received plenty of agency and service provider comments. I'm going to sum them up here. I do really appreciate all of the public comments we got.

They were really informed, respectful, brought up great points, and I'm happy to discuss them. So, most of the comments were around community compatibility, right? Anything besides houses, adjacent to houses, folks wanna know that they're not going to be infringed upon. So, the first thing we can talk about is setbacks. The proposed setbacks actually exceed the requirements for the r one zone.

Even the independent duplex footprints show that they exceed that setback required there. I think that it's gonna be about 20 feet if I remember correctly, when they would only be required to be seven. So, they are definitely giving some consideration to the neighbors to the east there. Lighting, again, meets the residential lighting standards. The building height meets the requirement for the r one zone.

We don't have elevations for the duplexes. I can't imagine they would be over two stories, so 35 feet is the maximum allowed there. We will evaluate that when they are ready to bring those forward in type one site plans. Fire safety, we did receive comments from CFD, a hydrant is required on Southeast 13th Avenue and there is an emergency access clearance and turnaround on the east side of the site. And, the parking is based on the analysis provided by the applicant and their industry experience.

There was a comment about private business competition, that is not a criteria that planning or planning commission is allowed to consider, that's outside the scope of our land use review here. In terms of agency and service provider comments, again, just a summary here. We didn't receive any that were sort of out of left field or surprising. So, utilities are available, public improvements again to both frontages are required and shown on the civil plans and then they also have to meet everyone else's codes in addition to ours essentially. And that is, again, reflected in the conditions of approval.

And based on all of that, staff do recommend that the Planning Commission approve applications Doctor 25 dash o three and CUP 25 dash o two subject to the 48 conditions of approval included in the staff report. And that's it for me.

Okay. Brianna, we appreciate that. Now we will go into planning commissioners questions for staff. We'll start with Judy.

Okay. Go ahead. Thank you, Brianna. Excellent presentation. Graphics are wonderful. I'm very visual, so thank you. I have I probably should have looked this up, but I forgot. How are the SDCs calculated for a development like this versus a housing development? Is it different?

I'm sure there's a diff There may be a different ITE code, but it is sort of the same formulas.

Like, per square footage type? Yes. Okay. Thank you. And then my other question is your slide 17, you don't have to go to that, but it showed the access and the roads and the access. Do we know how the fire department plans to access? Will they come down 13 and turn left into the facility off 13? They could

turn left or right, depending. But given they're coming from the North, they would yeah. So, yes, 13th, full access. Yeah.

Alright. And do we know for the the traffic study any facility like this? I'm not picking on this particular one, but any facility like this generates additional emergency traffic volume. Was that taken in consideration something out of the norm for emergency traffic volume for this situation? Do we

know in the traffic study? That's an interesting question, and I don't think the specific way you phrased that, no.

I didn't see it.

It was specific to the use. So, insofar in that, if that specific use has those considerations built in to their use category, I can't say for sure. Okay. But I can say it was specific to the use of senior care.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Sure. That's it for me.

You're next.

Hi. I've got a young full of questions about the well, I'll start with the traffic study. So when they did their assessment, are they just doing it based on the conditions, or did they actually get usage data to incorporate it?

Like, actual real data to incorporate it into their study? They used the background growth number.

So So, they didn't actually, like, set up anything

Go out

and the entrance. No, I

don't believe so. Okay. No. Because, what they found is contrary to what we see and hear from, the community about the difficulty of, say, taking a turn at that intersection from any direction, and just how much that backs up at different times of the day. Mhmm. Definitely around the school, getting in and out. Sure. Whenever there's buses, whenever there's just peak times of travel for people going to work and coming out. So I was a little disappointed that that didn't seem to be reflecting recently collected data in real time. Okay.

So the biggest questions I had that I can put out there right now before we hear from the applicant is with regard to the design review matrix. So the number of parking spaces provided, I saw the number 58 showing up, and I know they're gonna get into it a little bit more. Mhmm. 54 is what actually shows up in the plans.

Okay.

Are we at a point now that we can address that difference, or is that something that we should let them, address as part of the proposal?

I say let let's let them clarify. Okay? And

the biggest reason I wanna know about that is because it ties into the possible points for the matrix. Sure. The access portion of the matrix, the distance of access to the nearest intersection Mhmm. It has, the option of less than 70 feet, 71 to 100, or greater than 100. If this were a typical r one application, those distances would make sense. The requirement from the arterial intersection of 13th And Ivy is 330 feet in either direction. Mhmm. Why did we give them two points instead of calling it not applicable? I

think because this is a conditional use and all conditional uses are subject to that matrix.

We did elect to consider other items not applicable because of its use. Mhmm.

You know, I think we were just going on the standard explained in there, but I your point is valid. Okay.

Also, when we are in the section of building appearance, we gave them four points for the provision of public art as in murals, statues, fountains, or decorative bike racks. I didn't see anything that I would personally consider art. They have a very fancy flagpole, but, as much as I enjoy a good flag, to me, that is an art. So I'm curious about the full four point designation for that particular item. Is there something that I'm overlooking in regards to their artistic contribution?

I would say save for the fact they haven't provided details about bike parking facilities that may give them that extra point. I would I would tend to agree with you.

Okay. Yeah. Because on a scale of zero to four, four seemed excessively generous in my estimation. Mhmm. The low impact development, use of pervious paving materials, percentage of total paved area. So as part of your presentation, you called out that the max, pervious, paved area is 60%.

Mhmm.

On the design review, matrix, you we've award them four points for more than 75%, which is And impervious? Yes, impervious. Thank you. And which is in excess of the allowable amount. So it seems like they would have been maxed out three points, the 51 to 75% range.

So they're proposing 60% impervious surface. Impervious?

Yes. So, pervious is 40%

Yes.

Then. And that includes the pervious pavement.

So, the use of pervious paving total Mhmm. Would be what percentage?

I think it's between I wanna say about 19. 19. Okay.

Well, then that would have them in the two point range and not the four point range that we have awarded them for more than 75% pervious. Disconnecting downspouts from the city stormwater facilities. I saw multiple references to tying into city drainage. So they have some on-site collection to minimize it, but everywhere throughout the plan, they're tying back into the sewer system, which to me says you are not fully disconnected from city stormwater if you are planning to tie into it. So am I miss and this could again be something for the applicant, but am I misunderstanding the intention to retain 100% of the storm water on-site versus having it flow into the city drainage as indicated in multiple places?

I I took them at their word that the storm drainage facility on-site behind the duplex units was going to, be able to deal with the total capacity of on-site storm water.

Okay. So, the tying into the city system would be

just for backup? That is something that we can definitely verify at preconstruction too. I'm not a public works Sure. Person, but that is something that we could definitely double check.

Okay. Yeah. Those are my big ones for now, but for the things that you conceded might have been overly generous in points, that gets us down under the threshold to meet the minimum criteria. So I just wanted to

what's the new total? Let me double check. Sorry. I've got them all highlighted.

So the number of parking spaces if we don't have number of parking space provided less than a 120%, 101 to a 120, or 100%. So we'd have to do the math on it. Think I'll

add it up. If you could give the number.

I think that one might be just one One. From that item. Mhmm. Distance to the nearest intersection, I'd strike two for that because it's nowhere near it. Or pardon.

Would you say it's not applicable? It's not applicable.

So it just wouldn't

be We just would

Yeah. Yeah.

Count

this. Provision of public art, If we wanna be really generous thinking they might come up with some fancy bike racks, then maybe we would go down to two from four. But even at that, might be a little on the generous side, but just to be fair too. Use of pervious paving materials, if we were looking at 19, we would lose two more points there. Disconnecting downspouts from city stormwater facilities, I'd say that that's you know, all downspouts disconnected is what they have right now.

Some might be more applicable if we're not retaining it all 100% on-site. So one point for that, which is a total of, I believe, eight points? Eight points. Yes. So that takes us down to 38 points.

I would want to, for the storm drainage, check back in the conditions of approval. Mhmm. Our engineer gave us a lot of great specific conditions that may answer that question for us. Okay. Yeah. Cool.

Good? Yeah. For now. For now.

Yep. Thank you.

I I think that the design of the bill I like the design of the building. So as far as the artwork piece of it, I do think it's a handsome looking building with its entry, so I would give it some credence there.

It did get all of its design points in all the other categories, though.

So But I don't have I'm interested to hear more about the parking, and I'm interested to hear more about the entry points from IV and thirteenth. But, otherwise, I don't have any other questions.

Okay. I've got a couple of questions for staff. So I'm curious, and this is either related or not related. This was approved before for the basically the same type of facility.

Yes.

And, it just poof went away. Do we know why?

I do know that fire access was one thing that was not addressed previously that we have definitely addressed this time. I would say that's the biggest thing that was under kind of my purview. I can't speak to what happened private on the private side at all.

Right.

You know, it's been a tough few years, so I'm assuming that that had something to do with it. But fire access, I would say,

would But it be the number

was approved

or denied?

It was approved.

Was approved. And just to add to that, so we have a year long approval process and they exceeded that and expired and fire came back with conditions post that which were now, which they've now met for internal circulation on the site which they put more pavement down, etcetera for internal circulation. So that was the major design change that's been made, but absolutely did go through the hearing process, was previously approved, and this is largely the same product that's being proposed tonight.

Same facility, same number of beds.

Okay. So I'm I'm a little curious. Now, were you guys in discussions with the

fire

department During this review?

In the Yes. 100. Mark Johnston.

So talk to me a little bit. I'm looking at the I'm looking at the plan here. On the backside of the building, they have a loading zone.

Mhmm.

And the loading zone is just prior to the fire truck turnaround.

On the other side of the access. Right.

So was there any discussion at all if they get a truck in there and the truck is unloaded and the fire truck has gotta get in there?

Mhmm.

CFD didn't bring up any concerns specific to that.

Okay.

They were sent the plan that showed that loading zone.

Yes.

I'm assuming their turning radius perhaps, you know, if you're imagining sort of that three point turn, they're turning south of the loading zone. They wouldn't be directly entering the loading zone.

Okay. Yeah.

If there's a truck in there, the fire truck's not gonna be able to turn around.

Okay. Understood. No specific comment was

given. Right. Okay. So there was no discussion about that?

About the loading zone.

So the other question I have is in your course of conversation of this this right turn this right turn only coming out onto 13th.

I think I think

I think the right turn on his eye.

You can only go right into it and right out

on top.

So the

So you

have be heading north on Ivey to get into it on Ivey.

Right.

Have to be taking a

But one on thirteenth?

Full access.

That's gonna be a full access?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Do you do you with the school there and everything, I I and I get it. The the whole traffic I mean, we have we have traffic studies, and then we have reality. Okay? And we've we've been doing this for as long as Cambias have been in existence and as long as there's been traffic studies.

Okay? We all know that we have traffic studies and then we have reality. And we all know that we have schools and we have school buses and we have traffic and we have soccer days and we have my question is is if we have full access on that on that driveway going in and out

On thirteenth.

On thirteenth. How how is thirteenth gonna work? I mean, you're gonna queue clear up into the intersection if somebody's is trying to get in or out of that driveway. Mhmm. If we've got school buses

and It's the only place you can turn left and it's 200 feet from that intersection.

Mhmm.

I will say

that they are also doing a 10 foot right of way dedication. So that space will be widened.

Yeah, but still, I mean, it just doesn't.

I would add this is a low volume peak hour timeframe. I mean, I understand what you're saying about the traffic issues. I think if we go back to the numbers and look at those, this is a relatively low volume. I this is a facility that, essentially, the workers are basically the that's the generation of the traffic that's gonna happen on the site. You know? I mean

By their numbers not using DKS

Yeah.

They're gonna have 38 people who are coming in and out of shift in the two to three window, which is indirect competition.

But I

I get what you're saying. I mean, it's the the standard though that we've received back from DKS is the level of surface speed. It's not close to failure. I just wanna I wanna be clear about that.

But it's only gonna take one delivery truck trying to turn in there at the wrong time, it's gonna it's gonna cause a a major problem. And I I just so and I my question to you is, staff I'm not trying to ask you to solve the problem. I'm just saying how much discussion did we have about that? A lot? A little?

I would say a lot.

You'd say a lot.

I would say a lot. And I would also And in

your mind, it all works.

I can see it operationally working on a day to day basis. Yes. I will also say this is a constrained remnant corner parcel. Anything proposed there, we're gonna see be seeing accesses closer than we really want them. Right? We can't deny access to a parcel because they're in that situation that already exists. I think they've made every effort to address it that they can.

Okay. So we have that. We we talked about that. And then The other question I had is, did we talk at all about when the duplexes, I'm assuming the duplexes are going to happen in the second phase?

Correct. Yeah.

Okay. And did they talk at all about when that might happen?

They did not.

Okay. Good. We'll talk about that with the And then did we talk at all about and I'm not gonna ask that question. Let's see. What else? Oh, I wanna know too, is the entrance it doesn't show anywhere on on this. How close is the entrance that goes on Ivy? How close is that entrance and exit to, the Hope Village entrance and exit? Across. Is it right straight across?

I don't have that figure. I'm not sure.

It's not

quite a ways down.

Is it quite a ways? Okay. I I couldn't. I didn't. I just had that question in my head. Good question. Okay. That's all I've got. Are you done? You're all finished?

I'm done.

Okay. Very good. Thank you. Anything else? Commissioners?

No. Thank you. Okay.

Thank Very good.

Thank you.

Applicant, you're up.

Good

evening commissioners and planning staff. I am Danielle Eisenhart Eisenhart Consulting. I'm a land use planner by trade.

I can't hear

you. Sorry. Turn that

mic up a little bit or something.

Do I have to push on it?

No. It just needs

to be

adjusted, but it's They

take care of it there.

There we go. You can hear me.

Okay. Janelle Eisenhart, Eisenhart Consulting, land use planner by trade, and I am the applicant representative. And I'm here with the team. Eddie can introduce himself in a second. And we have our civil engineer on Zoom if we have questions for civil. So I just wanna say thank you to staff at Brianna for writing a wonderful staff report. And, again, yes, this is a re review. So, the application was once it was approved in the past. It expired. Just time got away.

It's only a year. So here we are again, and we did take care of the fire access, because that was something that came up in the last review at the end. So with the new staff report, the applicant team is is pretty good with the proposed conditions of approval. The only one being the sanitary being public. We designed it as private, and I can show that on the slides here in a minute.

So it would be a little longer and a bigger pipe, so a little more of an expense for the applicant. Otherwise, we are pretty good with that. And we've been talking with staff about potential options there. Eddie, you wanna introduce yourself and then we can try to address some of these questions that you had. I didn't have a formal presentation because Brianna was gonna cover most of it, but we'll just jump into responding to you.

Good evening. My name is Eddie Rodalescu. I'm with EPR Design and Northwest Architecture and Design. We're a design build firm. I just wanted to answer some of the questions that came up specifically regarding the design.

One thing regarding the points for our design, we do have to incorporate 20 bicycle parking spaces on the site, that equates to about roughly 10 bike racks. So, one of the design elements we were planning to do is have a more artistic, more designed bike rack than a standard hoop design. We don't have specific details on that yet, but the space for them is allocated on the site plan, we just don't have the exact design for them. One of the other things we were planning to do and I don't know if these specifically qualify, but we do have a couple of gazebos planned on the site as part of a decorative element and also a useful element. Another thing we've designed into our site design is the front plaza area in this rendering where the person in the flagpole is.

We will have some benches built in there, it does come directly off the corner of the sidewalk where the intersection is and that'll be a really nice plaza area at the corner intersection. With regards to the questions on the storm water, I guess you could say disposal and harvesting, I think our civil engineer is on, but I do know and he can probably better address this, but we do have several stormwater detention facilities spread out throughout the site, two along the front that are sort of more of depressed rain gardens that will have plantings in them. Those also frame our plaza area. And then, we do have the more traditional style light up planters that you've probably seen around, one back there and one to the south. These don't tie into City Storm other than for overflow and that would be, I believe it's called like the fifty year flood event or something like that.

Our engineer can better speak to those. As far as the fire truck turnarounds, we do actually have two of them on-site that meet the fire truck turnaround dimensions. One of them is directly off the entrance of 13th, there's this one that's across that the pointers on, that's across from our delivery parking space. We're not expecting and the owners operators not expecting a large semi truck style delivery vehicle here. It's a box van.

This is it? Yes, for food and groceries, that's it right there at the pointer and other goods that need supplied at the building, those also can be scheduled deliveries. The other fire truck turnaround is directly off the access off 13th, those radiuses all meet fire truck turnaround dimensions, so they could pull in and go that's if they make a right, so they say they turn in off 13th and make a right, they could park there or even go further down towards the intersection to the west. Our entrance cover there is has a height that clears ambulance and fire truck vehicles, so they could park underneath that as well. Right there.

So, there is that fire truck turnaround directly north of the loading space and then there's also the fire truck turnaround space that's to the Southeast there. And then, far as having this come back in after once being approved, one of the main reasons this surpassed the one year timeframe is during the building permit design process. We did do a lot of design and redesign with the civil engineer regarding these accesses working together with our civil engineer and engineering staff. This was determined to be the best use and best circulation for the site regarding right turn in, turn out on Ivy and then the full right and left turn in off 13th. I think that was all the questions in case unless there's more we can answer.

Can the fire trucks come in and out on Ivy?

No. Sorry.

Would would say Apologies. Do you want me to answer that?

Finish your presentation.

Oh, okay.

Oh, sorry.

No. We're finished. Yeah. Thank you.

Sorry. That that was my read.

Okay. So I have a couple questions about fire. But how many I'm not talking about your facility just in general. Facilities like this generate a lot of emergency calls fire calls, maybe a fall assist or something. How many per year will your facility create for our town?

I don't I wouldn't know that number off the top of my head. I guess it also depends on the level of occupancy and vacancies at any given time of the year, so I wouldn't have an exact

Do we number know the type of of occupancy that this facility will expect?

So the occupancy type will be, 22 beds will be memory care and the other, 80 beds will be assisted living.

Yeah, I saw that. What percentage of occupancy though? I mean, is it 80% full, a 100% full?

That's probably something more for the operator to answer. I'm aware of that number, but there always is some level of vacancy. I don't think they're full.

Do we know an average for a facility like this, what it might be on average?

I probably would say five to 10%.

Okay. So I looked at some numbers, just did some research in general, and I'm not picking on your facility, just in general. Facilities with this size, with this number of people who are getting assisted living, it generates between a hundred and ninety and five hundred additional fire department calls per year. And, again, that's not picking on you, and that's just standard research numbers. And so for our town, are you familiar with how the volume of our town's fire service today?

No? No. That might have been some good research to look at because one of the things I'm just gonna say as a planning commissioner, when we're evaluating businesses coming to our town, we like to be very business friendly, but we also expect the businesses to kind of, I don't know, look into things and, you know, what positive impacts will this have on our town, which, of course, there are many, but what are the other impacts that may not be so positive? So I'm a little disappointed that we haven't looked at that. So anyway, our our annual call volume for medical calls for our fire department is 2,800.

So we're gonna increase that by one ninety to 500. That's a 15 to 18% increase of burden on our fire department. We have a wonderful fire department. I don't think there's anybody in our town that would say we don't. And when there's a levy or something to be voted on, it's they're very highly supported. But that's a pretty big burden for a town like ours. The other question, don't I shouldn't know the answer. I should've just called them. But, yeah, I I believe anytime there's a fire call a call and, you know, like a help assist call or something, the EMT truck has to go and the engine has to go in our town. That's correct.

So that's two vehicles going into that parking lot of the engine and an EMT for every call, which again mostly are like fall assists or something. So that's why I asked Don about the SDCs. And and I don't know to what extent the SDCs support our fire department outside of levies and things like that. But if they're having the same SDC level burden as to homes I was looking at this so that based on the square footage of your facility, that would be equivalent to about 22 homes in a new development. And they and that's a very low burden of s d t SDC given the burden that is added to our town.

Again, all the benefits too. I don't don't deny that. It's something that towns like ours need, but it seems like it's it's not equitable because it's adding a lot of burden for fire versus what a normal development would add. And it's been you know, maybe these aren't things we can talk about tonight, but we'll have more developments like this in the future. And so I guess I'd like to see us have more analysis. If the developers aren't gonna bring it to the table, which, again, I'm a little disappointed that didn't happen, then we need to bring it to the table. No. Let's see. What else did I have? Yeah. Okay. That's good enough for me. Thank you.

Okey dokey. I've got a couple questions about fire as well. So sorry about blurting it out earlier. Are fire trucks going to be able to come in on Ivy if they were heading north and would be able to take that right hand turn into the facility? Or is that too tight for a fire apparatus? Because they're long. I think they're 20 some odd feet long.

Could I interject here? I I I mean, I I think the questioning is great. I we do know that, you know, Gambi Fire has looked at this plan and they've agreed with it. They are the experts on that. I I I don't mind the questioning, but we're not gonna be able to answer fire questions in those levels of detail tonight.

Okay. Well, questions that fire raised that I think you can answer is the size of the elevators. They recommended six by eight so that somebody could be in the elevator with a gurney. Are the elevators in the plan six by eight and not six by sevens? Because it wasn't I didn't see it.

They're actually larger than that as Larger

than that. Fantastic. And is there a 67 inch turnaround in the bathrooms? One of the assessments thought that it was only 60?

Yes, the building will be designed well, actually is designed to meet the current handicap accessibility code with the 67 inches turning radius in the bathrooms, all the resident well, every single bathroom in the facility is handicapped accessible, all the doors, corridors, everything for resident and staff use.

Okay. And with the discussions of access options on thirteenth, was there discussion about making 13th a designated in and out as well? And if it was discarded as not a good plan, was that because of the input from fire? So 13th could potentially be you can only come in heading east, and you can only leave heading east. But I'm sure fire would have something to say about it one way or the other. I'm just curious if that was a discussion point at some

I believe our original discussions, if I remember correctly, Brianna might remember this too, is that originally there was gonna be no access off Ivy Street and I believe the right turn in, turn out was the alternative to that in order to have any access there. Yeah. And, that full access was always intended from thirteenth.

Okay. But, with a full a free in and out? Correct. Yeah. Let me see.

I had a bit of a question about the foliage. So when we're looking at the the drainage area on the east side between the duplexes and the the neighboring plots and also between the south end of the area and the plots. When we're actually looking at the the foliage proposed, there are two different types of trees, a prospector elm on the south side and fastigliata pyramidal European hornbeams on the east Side. The elms are gonna be, when they're grown, 20 to 25 foot wide and 40 to 50 foot tall. The hornbeams would be 20 to 30 foot wide and 40 to 60 feet in height, rarely 80.

And they're parked right up within feet of the barrier between the other homes. So it doesn't seem like the plants like, as a neighbor, I could imagine not seeing the facility would be your preference. So bigger trees are nice, but it doesn't seem like the trees proposed have enough space where they're being proposed and that these are gonna be very, very large trees, very, very close to buildings, which is a fire hazard on top of a hassle. Somebody had mentioned in one of the, comments just about egress and if the trees could be impacting that. I know that the houses that are in the development on 13th, a lot of those houses, they have very shallow backyards.

So if you've got a tree that's encroaching 10 feet, into your property, that may or may not be welcome. So they just seemed very large and very close, and I wasn't sure what the selection criteria was. I'm not

the landscape architect, so I don't know the answer to that, for why the species. This is preliminary, though, the landscaping plan, and it can morph as we go through the building permit phase. But, there something that's not on here is there will be a six foot tall fence along the property line. So it's floor beneath will

be screens. Foot tall fence and then like the The big trees. Yeah. The tree is gonna be, you know, 30 feet around and the trunk is two feet in from your six foot fence. That's quite a distance into the neighboring properties.

Yeah. And it's, like I said, it's preliminary and we may need to move some trees because there's probably not room between the fence and this planter Yeah. Definitely. Potentially. So, they need to be a different species, potentially, just to get them to fit.

And then, while we have this slide here, these these are landscape planters, the the two long things, infiltration planters, and they are designed to the hundred year flood storm event. So Okay.

Let me see if I got anything else on my list, and I will turn the mic over to my counterparts. And the fire hydrant was recommended to be on the east side of the thirteenth entrance, but right now we're looking at it on the west side. Is that cemented in the plan or is that still

The location's not cemented but, can you go to slide 4? Sorry, I'm not able to move them. Likely will be either here or over here. And we'll work with Bayer on on where to put that.

Okey dokey, ladies and gentlemen. That's it for me. Thank you.

I

did note there were two emergency visits today on that pulse point that showed at IV that I that I recognized, but so that is that is a bit of a concern with the increase of that. So, you're saying that we don't think fire trucks can go in and out of Ivy. Is that correct?

Correct. I don't think that turning radius works for a truck. I don't believe that's how

it was designed. So Can I just Go for? Do have a condition of approval that requires CFD sign off on that access point. Mhmm. Whether they ultimately request it be designed to allow them access or not is going to be up to CFD, but there is a condition of approval currently in the staff report that does give them the option to request that if they need it.

Yeah. Okay. There is there is a condition to rework this design this was just an idea because there was not something in their manual here in the city to design the write in write out so it could be mountable it could be whatever fire decides if they want it. Yeah.

Is the I'm struggling a bit with what that what that will look like on thirteenth as I'm looking at like Google Map. Has that been drawn out? Like, what that what that in and

out is gonna look like?

There is a detail in the civil plan set. I'm not sure if the applicant included it in there. Didn't put the details in because Yeah. So, if there's we could open the attachments if you'd like. It would take a second. Okay. Yeah.

I would like to see it. I'm struggling with seeing it because it's the it's starting the turn lane. Yes. The left turn lane from 13th onto Ivy is right where, you know, I just I just am struggling to see that.

Yeah. Bear with us for a second.

Thanks. They're looking at thirteenth.

Okay. Good. Yeah. Thirteenth.

I

didn't see it myself and I'm having technical getting my We see that. Attachments open and closed here.

I think what page is

this?

Page sheet number c four, and we will go ahead and share it in just one second. I wanna make sure that's the best. Yep. Page c four.

Yeah.

Which is page seven of the PDF. There we go. Okay. We might have to. We can zoom it in.

Enhance. It's texting me. I don't know if I can do that.

So there's the entrance there. And here's the existing edge of pavement. So again, that 10 foot right of way. So

I'm not sure what I'm looking at here.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is kinda so what you're seeing here in the this hatched area is is the existing edge of pavement and the new pavement being added. I don't you know? And then this is a connection to the sewers, a new pavement where we cut into the pavement. So I don't know that you're really seeing the turn lane here, so I don't know what you're looking for.

Turn lanes and whatnot.

Yeah. Was looking at, like, what does it look like?

What does the street look like?

Yeah. Because right now in front of that in front of that entryway, it's a solid line where traffic can't go in. Like, what I just wanna know what that that part looks like right in front of

it. Yeah. I mean, it would be restriped probably to allow it would have a left turn pocket, probably. Does Brian have access to share his screen?

So he just needs to

unmute himself.

Yeah. He just

needs to unmute himself.

Brian, there

he is.

Has to share.

If you wanna share, you can just request to share, Brian, if you'd like. Okay.

Can you guys hear me okay?

Yes. Yes.

Perfect. I was just gonna clarify that the driveway location, the striping doesn't We show need

that name. I need to know who he is and where he's at.

Dickerson in the bottom.

Sorry. Brian Dickerson with Langan Engineering, formerly Navix Engineering.

So I'm a civil engineer on this project. Thank you.

Yeah. So the the driveway if the question is where the driveway lines up relative to the striping in the roadway, it would line up roughly where the, the middle of that median is now. So in between where it tapers and where the actual left turn lane begins. The current plan is not to restrike that. It would be to remain. It does leave you a little bit of a pocket to pull out if you're going left, before you actually enter the left turn lane. And that's that's how it was originally approved, and we did not propose to change that.

Do we have bike lane there? What? Do we have a bike lane there?

No. Sorry.

I'll turn on my mic.

So I was having trouble hearing that. So, we're going to have a 10 foot buffer between the driveway and the road.

Did you say Would it be okay if I shared my screen or

Yes.

Is that okay?

Yes, please. Yes, please. Yeah.

I was just gonna share an aerial view.

Yeah. Google Street view. Yeah.

She's looking at Google Street view. That's helpful.

Yeah. That's what I'm looking at.

We'll shut Matt out

of Did

you say, Brian, that it's not there's no plan for any re striping?

Correct. Right. So if you can see my screen, I've drawn the dimension here. It's about 260 feet from this existing edge of curb on an ivy to where the center of our driveway would be. So in this area, it would roughly line up with this dirt area that's shown now. So there is a bike lane currently that runs along the frontage.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's basically just goes to the edge of pavement. And when we part of our furniture improvements will be to widen the pavement from that existing edge about 10 feet into the site or towards the site. There'd be a curb and sidewalk along the frontage. I think there's a 10 foot right away dedication and then the project property starts beyond that. So at this driveway location, what I was saying is there, it would essentially be in between where it widens out for this median to short median, but before you have the left turn lane portion.

So there would be a a, you know, potential for, like, one car to pull out, have a little bit of a gap here before fully merging into the

When it's not westbound.

Does that answer your question, Leah?

Yes.

Okay.

I would like to see something different there, though. I would like to see something in the striping, and I don't know. I I just feel like there's a there's a solid yellow line there, and you're asking people to cross that to cross into. I just don't it doesn't have like, if you have a center lane with two arrows going, you know that you can do that this a little bit. I I would like to see something different there.

But that was my only question. Sorry.

Okay. Brian, while we've got you on, can you bring that picture back, please, that you just had up there, the street overview? So and I'm gonna I'm including you guys in in this also. So what you're asking is the where the zero is on Heath. There we go.

Eyes don't move that fast.

Where the zero is there is the center of our new driveway, I'm assuming. Is that correct? So what we're going to be doing is is we're going to be a left and right turn coming out of our new project. And the left turn is going to be turning into what is going to be the the left turn lane at going into our light. And so if someone is going to be turning left coming out of the project and they're going to be wanting to turn right or going straight on thirteenth, they're going to may have to make somehow make an immediate, lane change, to get onto 13th to make a straight ahead or a right turn.

Am I correct there? Is that correct? Okay.

There's a

little Yeah. Yeah.

There's a little space to sit here and I will say I I did park here and I did

pull here. It

looks like you able to get out.

If if the queuing is, let's just say one, two, three, let's just say five cars

Sure. They've got about a 100 feet to approximately,

I'm gonna say we're just talking approximates here. Brian, you can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. They've got about a 100 feet in the turn lane, hoping that no one else is trying to get into that turn lane to turn turn, yeah, to turn turn left at our light there to get into the right lane. So we have that. If somebody's going to be turning

Yeah, Brian, could we see the measurement from where your zero point is now to the midpoint of the entrance?

Perfect. I like that, Brian. We're gonna put you on permanent. Okay.

And can you can you move the, left side from in front of the first car to behind the third car in the image, which is about five car lengths back? Excellent. Okay. So it's about a 100 feet.

Sure. So, so we've got, yeah, about a 100 feet. I wouldn't

have far off. No.

You're you're right. He had the measuring tools. I figured we'd put them to

so so we got about so, yeah. Okay. So that's that's that's pretty tight there.

So our queuing is gonna be about it's gonna

be tight right there. So so somebody's gonna come

out of the facility and, they're going to have to get over quickly, hoping that no one else is trying to get into that lane there.

Yeah. They kinda have to be able to take a left hand turn when there's not many cars queued up there because it frequently queues up beyond the existing turn lane, that white line designation.

They can take Ivy. Yeah.

They can

go out the Ivy exit too.

Yeah. Yeah. If they're gonna be heading north. Yeah. If they need to be heading south where they need to get off the thirteenth and go south on Ivy, your only option is to take a left or to take a right and go way down and turn around somewhere where there's no great places to turn around.

And this is also given that school isn't just getting out and the school buses aren't stacked up there.

That was my concern with their shift change happening at two because then you have people the shift change I think is actually is at 02:30. So you have people coming in and leaving primarily between two and three, which is right when school is getting out. Alright.

Okay. Alright. That's a very helpful picture there. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. Okay. So moving along to other questions. I appreciate that, Brian. Thank you.

So my other questions are in looking at your your plans here. So following along with Judy's question of the the amount of calls that come in, so what is your what is your what is your proposal for when you have your fire trucks and ambulances? When they when they respond to a call and and whether they use the Ivy Street entrance or the or the 13th Street entrance, where do you expect them to

Turn around

and facility? What's your preferred entrance to the facility?

So when discussing this with the fire department, their preferred method of entry is through 13th. No, no,

no, no. You're misunderstanding my question. Their preferred entrance to the building?

It would be the main entrance. Through the front doors? Through the front doors or there's also right directly across from the fire truck turnaround. There are entrances direct to the memory care area, right there, the other one in the middle and then one directly across on the West side. So they require knock boxes at all main entrance doors and those are the three main entrance doors getting into the building.

The main main entrance for public use is the one that points to the intersection right there at the corner. So they can enter the memory care unit through a separate entrance, that's a secured area of the facility for the residents. And most likely if they're responding to the memory care unit, they would probably use those doors. I believe that's one of the reasons they wanted a firetruck turnaround all the way to the south of the site is because if they pulled all the way down that driveway, they wouldn't have to make such a long reverse maneuver to get to the north turnaround. Okay.

So I know facilities like this usually have ingresses and ingresses to the building that they've they're lower impact to the residents that they like to have so that they don't have this you know, such an impact on the residents. So I guess my question is is that given given given that, I'm just I I have to say I'm I'm quite concerned about this loading dock and the and where the truck the fire trucks come in and and

Turn around.

Yeah. The the that's a congested area back there. And and having been involved with facilities like this before, there there's many times that you get one, two, even three of your box trucks or short trailer trucks that are at that loading dock at at any given time. And and being the high call rate of places that this type of a place generates, that that can get really, really congested. And I I'm just I'm just really, really concerned about that back alley, if you would.

And then this whole thing with the with the duplexes back here and you have those people will be driving their own cars and you've got them maneuvering with trucks and whatnot. I'm just curious the thought process of that. And then I'm also curious the thought process of the duplexes and that type of care offering with what you're offering in the building with the RCF and the dementia and the assisted living. Mean, that kind of falls under one type of care and then the duplexes fall under pretty much a different type of care. That's a separate separate type of care.

And I kinda see us trying to put a lot of different kinds of care on this one lot and what we're trying to approve here. And I I just my question is is how how soon do you plan on moving forward with those duplexes? And and what's what's that going to look like? I'm I'm I'm real apprehensive about those duplexes going in. I I I think our community can really use the the assisted living RCF and dementia care. I'm I'm I'm behind that, but that duplex component of that, that's starting to crowd that lot quite a bit,

in my opinion. Yeah. I believe the intent of those was to offer a living situation for somebody who is not they're at the point where they want to live in a community like this, but they can still do things on their own. Eventually, they will move into the main building as they age or need help with daily things. The intention of those was to offer that sort of living unit and eventually transition into a higher care level. Yeah.

And I understand step care. I understand step care. I I get that. I just step care works if you've got room to do it.

I don't think

I'm that's not really sure you got room to do it here. So I'm just I'm just I'm I'm a little concerned about that. I'm concerned about the traffic. I'm concerned about the driveways. I'm just thinking we're putting too much in on a postage stamp type of a situation here. And, so I'm I'm concerned about that. So and I think we would be solving some situations with the neighbors too if we had that component out of there and maybe turn that building a little bit on that lot and

So you can go all the way around it?

But if you could get all the way around it, that would help with the fire component and the emergency access of it, maybe move the entrances and exits a little bit. And yeah. So I I just I'm just yeah. So, anyway, also, there's another thing in here I didn't see is emergency power, standby power. Did I see anything for that? If if Camby is kind of got a little problem with that right now. If somebody pulls the plug on us, if are we gonna have a bunch of a 122 some older folks without any power here?

Or stranded on the 2nd Floor and they can't take the stairs?

Yeah. No. There will be emergency backup power here. Okay.

I didn't see that anywhere in the in the in the plan here.

It's there near the it's not specifically called out, but Okay. By the loading space to the left of that. Okay. There's that alcove there that's also access to our main mechanical, electrical and kitchen areas. Okay. That'll be our location for our pad mounted generators.

It'd be a really, really good idea. It can be right now. So, I think that that is I got a few other things, but I think I think pretty much that answered just about everything I've got. Judy, you got anything else? Thank you.

Miss Driscoll?

I'm just with you with the access points. Like, if the doors that they need to get into, one's just beyond the loading dock and the turnaround's all the way down there. If the turnaround were more midway between 13th and where it's at now, that would be less distances of going backwards from any given direction. And if you can't get in with a truck to the Ivy Street entrance, then basically that one's kind of off the table. So you've got the main entrance for the regular assisted living, and then you've got past the loading dock for memory care.

And whoever is in those duplexes, should they be built, are going to, you know, be seeing on average between two hundred and five hundred visits a year. Then about half that time, they'd have flashing lights just wailing outside their windows, which is kinda depressing and concerning in its own way. So that wouldn't really be

all that nice for them.

Yeah. I'm not sure they run code on those trips. I don't think they don't where I live in Arizona anyway. They certainly don't.

Oh, they've got all the lights on. Like, I've recently spent a couple weeks in an assisted living or a skilled nursing facility with my mom, and it's a different state. But, yeah, they've got the lights going. So they don't have the sirens. No.

They don't.

But they've got the lights going. And so if you're near enough to see the lights, you see the lights. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't have anything to add. I'm done.

Yeah. Anything else? Okay. Do you have anything to talk to the commissioners about?

Brian, do you wanna cover that turnaround a little more or no?

Sure. Can do that. Okay. I can do that. You're talking about the for the site With

the it works with the loading zone.

Yeah.

Do you want?

I can share my screen maybe.

Can we turn him up a little bit? I'm having a difficult time hearing.

I can speak louder if that helps. We

wouldn't say no.

I can share my screen again if that's easiest. I can point to it.

I think that'll be easier.

Thank you. Let's see. Hit this twice. Okay. Hopefully, you can see that.

Yep.

Yeah. A couple things on the the loading area. So in this part of the site, the loading area is essentially the striped area off to the side of the main drive aisle. So there's ability for loading trucks to enter this and pull out of the actual drive aisle for the loading. The actual emergency turnaround area is let's see.

This provides some this provides some dimensions for that. So the 70 feet by 70 feet is the Candy Fire and Clackamas County turnaround dimensions. So truck needed to get in. If if for some chance there was a loading truck sitting out on the side, a fire truck can still get around on this side or if they're already down here, they can back into this turnaround area and pull out.

How wide is that strip? 26 feet? The

the main drive aisle is 26 feet. Yeah. I believe this is actually

Could a fire truck get around another

I don't know how to imagine. I'm sorry, what was that?

I said you think a fire truck could get around another truck that was actually in that 26 foot walkway?

Yeah, I mean a fire truck is roughly eight feet wide, right? I mean it fits in a Eight feet. Traffic

Nine feet at max, Yeah. I would agree. Yeah. Okay.

So, that's one piece. We did design the ride in, ride out to accommodate fire truck movements in and out.

Okay. Great.

Well, yeah. We so we coordinated a lot of this with Camby Fire already. And like Danelle pointed out earlier, there is all the turning radius on these curbs is, wide enough, and big enough radius for fire trucks to be able to get in whether they come straight in and need to back up and use a turnaround and pull out. Or if they come in this way, they can get around. They can actually make this corner all the way around. They may have to swing out a little bit through here. If they come in from the South on Ivy, they could come in and actually pull all the way into that and then potentially back out and then turn out again. So, I mean, some of those are

But if they come in off of Ivy, can they kind of take a left and head towards the main entrance or do they have to Yes. Stay right there? They can't go up to the main entrance?

So they can they can come in here and then go like that.

Beautiful. Can I add?

If they come in off of Ivy from the South, they're not they'd they'd have to be on another call already because there's no Otherwise The other station that's down there can't respond to these calls. The Camby Markham station cannot respond to these. Mhmm. So they're

gonna hypotheticals in terms of, yeah, where they might enter. Right.

Missed around already.

And I don't know that this is our solution, but I'm just curious. Could the 13th Avenue entrance be made a ride in, ride out as well space wise?

I think if you have both of them a ride in, ride out, it makes it pretty restrictive in terms of people being able to get to where they need to go or enter depending you know, they gotta kinda know which way to come into the site and which way you're entering to maybe go a certain direction. So that does Well, the only thing

it really changes is not taking a left on the thirteenth. Right? Mhmm.

It would also prevent anybody thirteenth. Anybody coming on thirteenth being able to turn in this way. Right. If you have this right in right now.

Now you're right. Sorry about that.

Okay.

And it came up before but it looks like there's a minimum of 58 parking spaces required and we've got 54 on the plans.

There is a minimum requirement of 58. We have 70 total counting the duplex parking. So there's 54 in the parking lot and another 16 with the duplexes hitting the 70.

The meth on some of it taking the duplexes out had a 58. I can dig for it. That's all I've got for now. I'll look for my where I got that 58 from.

Page six of the staff report has the parking matrix provided by the applicant. I think one point of confusion and this doesn't tally with we're missing kind of four spaces we're counting But visitors, there's no code standard for that but they assigned five as required and that factors into their total of 58. I'm not sure where the specifically four space question is addressed here but.

No, I think the adding the 16 from the independent senior duplexes addresses it. If for some reason there were not independent senior duplexes, then we would have fifty four and fifty eight needed for memory care. Is that a correct statement?

Per code standard, I did calculate it separately. So, on page seven of 30, per code standard, we require one space per two beds for residents. So I wouldn't say that's the most accurate summation, giving none of the residents will be driving. But per that standard, and if we're considering one shift coming and one shift going and giving that an overlap of employees, then 89 spaces would be required.

Really? Okay. Because of the facility residents having

that Because of the residents.

So if we're disregarding that and we're just talking staff with the 38 for overlap outside providers at seven and visitors So five seems awfully sad and restrictive but

It would be 89 minus 51. Oh, plus one space per employee. Uh-huh. I confused myself. So what did I say? 89. 91 plus 38. 76 per standard not including beds.

So, by that standard, you'd be seeing it at 76, but we're saying with the 70 including in the duplexes The duplexes. Which is actually like a different thing than we're because it's like we're not counting care facility if we call the independent student duplexes part of it, but if the duplexes weren't part of it, then we would start counting the care facility. Threshold again? Per our standard.

I think that standard needs to be looked at personally, considering residents don't drive.

And

considering shift overlap, wanna make sure.

And usually there's like administrators there during the day that aren't there at other times and I would hope that for 120 some odd bed place that you'd have more than five visitors at any given time. It'd be nice to give them that flexibility. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Anybody have anything else for this applicant? Applicant have anything else for us?

Not at the moment.

Okay. Very good. Thank you very much for being patient with us.

Thank you.

Okay. Now, we go to the opponents and the proponents. And let's see here. How are we gonna do this? We have got two folks that are going to speak. And I am going to just go with number one. And this is also the the part in the in the evening where I get to butcher your last names.

So

I'm going to take that leeway. The first one that is going to get to speak let's see. The first one that's going to speak is En perando. Aaron. Aaron. Aaron Sperando. And that is Erin right there. Come on down.

She's in the proponent.

And she is going to speak. She is not in favor of the project. And she's speaking in behalf of Marquis Companies.

Very good. Alright.

Thank you counsel for letting me speak today. I'm Erin Sperando. I'm director operations for Marquis Companies, and we operate Hope Village Assisted Living and Memory Care on Ivy Street. And I just wanted to bring up a few logistical things that I noticed in the staff report, which is part of the reason why we oppose this. It was brought up earlier that the some of the numbers were because of the operator's experience in this industry, but she's operated foster homes of five people.

This is a scale of a 100 residents, very different operation. Marquis Hope Village has 80 assisted living residents and 22 memory care, so the exact same size. The staffing number is good at 38, but I wanted to talk about the visitors per day and the parking. So on average, Hope Village has 25 visitors to the assisted living a day and eight to the memory care. At any given time, the vast majority between eight and six.

So you're talking about a number of parking spots that 54 would not be adequate when you're adding in your residents, your visitors, and your staff. We have four residents that have cars on-site at Hope Village who do drive in the assisted living, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that you may have some more independent folks. You also have the average age of our residents in their eighties, so a lot of their family members are in their sixties, maybe even seventies. So trying to find parking all the way around the back of the facility, coming in the front of the facility, that creates quite a burden on those residents and families. The other thing I would say is that our average parking right now, 75 per day.

I had our staff go out and count. So if you wanted to look at perhaps actual numbers, those are the ones, not five visitors a day. You brought up the calls to EMS every day. I would tell you on average, taking out the nursing facility because I know we have that too, we have one to two calls per day to EMS. So just as a number, that is an actual viable number. And I understand that feasibility is not part of the planning commission's area of approval, but this is a big project and it's something to consider because this land is being used for an assisted living. What if it doesn't work? What if it fails? Then what do you do with it? So that's all I have.

I'll be allowed

to ask Don't go away.

Can we ask questions?

Go ahead.

You have one? No. I was just curious, do you have any numbers on the frequency of calls from the nursing side of things?

Yeah, the nursing facility average is probably two to three a day if you look through the year. Yeah, higher acuity for

sure. Yeah, for sure. Thank you very much.

Any questions? Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Our next one is going to be from Craig. Is that correct?

If you can read

it. Is it Carpenter?

Yes.

Okay. Wow. 100%. And Craig is gonna talk to us about traffic.

Well, I know it's been rehashed a lot, but nobody's really mentioned the side streets. I I live on 13th Place, not far from Larch, and making a left hand turn now is ridiculous. I don't with the schools and the activities and stuff in the morning, I don't have anything against against the kids using the facilities across the street from us. That's that's paramount. But when I can't leave my own development, it's it's kinda tough.

You can't make a left hand turn a lot of times. This morning I waited probably fifteen minutes just to make a left hand turn with the way the lights, so on and so forth. My biggest concern is that people will become impatient and not want to go through that intersection at 13th And Ivy. They're gonna make a left hand turn onto Larch and zip through our neighborhood in order to get back to 16th Place and and avoid all that mess. Well, we have a lot of children.

We have a lot of old people like myself, and it's a concern. We tried to have a traffic survey done a couple years ago on large just for that reason. People used it as a freeway, FedEx, Amazon, and then just regular residents. There's no stop signs. We have a lot of kids.

That's a big concern for us. Especially having that driveway so close to large and then when you get kids having their activities and everybody parks along 13th, you can't tell if if, I mean, it's ridiculous. The other concern I had was with the parking spaces. You guys have all shopped at Safeway or Cutsforth and you see how people park neatly in between lines. These people who who drive duallys and and extended cabs, do they remain in the lines all the time?

Not everybody parks the way they're supposed to park. I don't know if that's enough spaces or not enough spaces, but it's a it's a it's an interesting dilemma, especially on a shift shift change where one person doesn't go out, another person go right into that spot. It seems like there's a whole lot of assumptions that are made as far as the parking and so on and so forth. I do notice in Canby that getting through an intersection, yellow means go faster and and that's becoming a problem. How are the how are the police gonna monitor the extra activity at 13th And Ivy?

It it's it's already a cluster in my mind, but uh-oh. Anyway, and I could go on and on, but I mean that that's that's we we did have a traffic survey done and they actually brought equipment out to monitor it, but they did it during the summer. And anyway, that's all I have to say.

Well, anybody got any questions for mister Carpenter? I

have a quick question.

Yes.

I should put on my mic. I know that you can park on 13th between Larch and Lupine and kind of further down. Is restricted closer to the intersection with 13th and Ivy?

I'm sorry. I can't hear you.

The on street parking on 13th, is it restricted closer to Ivy or do you know how far down

Well, it goes down to that first house. Okay. If you make a left, there's that house on the corner. You can park down to almost to where the new driveway will come in.

Yep. Basically, like where all the development is, you can park on both sides of the street there and the property that we're talking about currently is not.

Yes. Then the other way is all the way up. Again, that's for the kids and their activities. I don't have a problem with that stuff. But if it's an everyday type thing, which it could be, especially on weekends, don't wanna park in the parking lot, they park on our street and and anyway, angry homeowner, I guess. That's all I got.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can I go?

That is all I've got on the public testimony.

Nope. The applicant gets a chance to respond.

I know. That's all we've got on the public testimony. Applicant rebuttal.

So, first I wanna say my name is Petronella Donovan. I am the applicant, one of the owners of the facility. Chair and commissioners, wanna and staff, I wanna thank you so much for being here tonight. There was a couple of things that I wanted to say on behalf of this. There was a comment made that I only do five bed facilities.

That is wrong. I've had bigger facilities. I've been doing this kind of work for over thirty years. And one thing that I think needs to be noted that there is a need for this kind of facility, and for Oregon, we're one of the 11 states that in the next ten to fifteen years, we are gonna double our senior population. We are gonna have 65 and older, more than 18 year olds and younger.

There's definitely a need and I know the governor is a very proponent of what we do as well. That was one of the comment that I wanted to make. Also, wanted to say the Hope Village, we love them very much. We've worked with actually with them on several occasions. What it's not really apples to apples when it comes to the facility, what they offer there and what we're going to offer.

They have a rehab facility, and in the rehab facilities, there's more traffic than what we're gonna have in our facility. I wanna make sure that that is noted. They have their Also, they're A lot of the times, they're full in their facility, and I get their residence in Oregon City. They come please say you have a vacancy for us, and so I wanted to mark that as well. And, I I want this to be a very great collaborations between the both of us. It's this is not a, you know, a competition. This is when the service is needed. So, I think that's all I had. I think everything else was pretty much covered. I don't know if there's any questions for me.

Any questions for

And and one sorry. One thing that came up to me. We just passed the expiration date. That's what happened. It wasn't really nothing bigger than that as far as why we didn't the first time when it was, you know, know, approved. And so but I'm glad we came to Sec Tech because this the the lot actually has improved and I'm glad the new engineer that we have on board did quite a few engineering plans that were not there in the first plan and is actually better, you know, for us, for the residents and for the city. Yeah.

And on that, the again, the fire department and the city traffic engineer has approved the different access points. They've looked at this and it has been more detailed than the first round so there's been a lot of work there. Brian saying that we could park six cars along 13th with the widen area if that's something the city wanted, there could be six more cars there. It may not be allowed. I don't know. I think that's it for us unless you have more questions.

Questions? Judy? No?

I guess I'd be a little curious. The size of the facilities that you are working with now, like what do they average?

So, have a 30 bed memory care that I've had, that we built that one in, oh boy, I

think

2016, '16 I want to say. Okay. Yes. So, that and then I have several of the smaller ones as well.

Okay. And, did you do assisted living as well? Just for curiosity's sake.

Well, I have assisted living in my my current one. Yes. Okay. Great.

Thank you very much.

Leah? I'm good. Thank you.

Thank you.

All

right. Jerry, I just wanted to add into the discussion here. Trying to read the room a bit tonight and I would like to offer the opportunity for the applicant to continue the hearing to May 11. I'm just giving them the opportunity to do that instead of going forward, seeing these things happen before where there's a lot of questions and I may not go where the applicant wants it to go.

Okay. Very good. So I am going to go ahead and close the public hearing, and we will go to commissioner's deliberation. What

we

are going what we have before us is two options. We will either have a discussion on what we have before us, which I think we should go ahead and discuss it. And as to what we have before us here tonight. And then I would I would say we could either go ahead and vote on it or we could continue it if you so desire to, what was it, May 11, and give the applicant time to possibly rework it, rework the plan and bring it back to us in a form that possibly would be better for the community. So let's start out with discussing what we have before us.

Sherri Ward. Yes.

Just a point of reference here in this kind of procedural practices. If the applicant asks for a continuance and I know you disclosed it and I'm sorry that, but if they ask for that we have to grant those.

They asking for it?

I was hoping that they would take, they'd have the ability to come up and speak on whether they wanted to do that or not. I So was hoping to maybe reopen this to allow them to have that opportunity to ask that.

You would like for me to give them that opportunity Yes, before we go to

I would please.

Okay. Okay. I'll do that. Then what I am going to do is is I am going to I'm gonna pull the commissioners on that. That would that would constitute my reopening the public hearing and asking the applicant if they would like to have a continuance. And we're just gonna we're just gonna leave it at that. Judy?

Yeah, think to allow for

This would be just reopening the public hearing and offering the applicant to go for a continuance.

I agree with that.

I agree with it, and I'd like planning to address the point scoring as well for the matrix. I