Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, Adam. Okay, thank you for [clears throat]

Okay. All right. Good evening. By way of introduction, my name is Matt Comar and I'm the chair of the planning commission. I'd like to call to order the meeting of December 9th, 2025. Clerk, can we have the role? Commissioner Sizu here. Commissioner Majuski here. Commissioner Ali here. Commissioner Pino here. Commissioner Buckwander present. Fields present. Chair Kamort

here. Thank you. That's all of us. Next. Um, has uh we're going to go to the minutes. Has anyone had a chance to review the minutes? And are there any corrections? Okay. Not Oh, go ahead. I'll move to I'll move to approve the minutes of November 25th, 2025. Okay. We have a a motion. Is there a second? Second. Motion and a second. The uh clerk, can you do the roll call? Thank you. Commissioner Scissor. I. Commissioner Majuski Abstein. Commissioner Ali. Hi. Commissioner. Hi. Commissioner Buckbinder. Hi. Fields. Hi. Short.

Hi. Okay. So that passes as well. Next we go to communications. Um director J chair camcar commissioners. Uh no new communications and no recommended agenda modifications or postponements for staff.

Okay. Sounds good. Um, and next we go to oral communications. This portion of meeting is reserved for individuals wishing to address the planning commission on matters of community concern that are not listed on the agenda tonight. In the interest of time, I may limit the speakers to five minutes. Please be aware that state law prohibits the commission from acting on non-aggendas items. However, the chair may refer matters to staff for followup. Having said that, are there any um oral communications? Anybody want to speak to us on matters not on the agenda tonight? Seeing none in the gallery, are there any online? None. Okay. So, we go to the next section. Next one. We start a public hearing. Um first before we start, has anyone uh have any disclosures or you know visited the sites?

Yeah, I uh I I drove I drove into Home Depot, drove around the parking lot. Okay. And uh and I also drove near the uh West Hamilton 700 West Hamilton site. Okay. uh along the actually I went into went into the parking lot and on the back on the back street. Got it. Anybody else? Uh combo point. Um I regularly go to the Home Depot. I used to regularly go to the Penny Lane across the street from the site in item two. Um and I think that's it. Okay.

Me too. I'm I'm also guilty. people you visited. Yeah, I've been to all the sites. Yeah, perfect. Same. Same. Same. Excellent. You know, I have also visited two of the sites. I haven't visited the um Well, actually, I've visited three of the sites because Sorry, one of them is downtown. I can't think of it right now, but I'm downtown all the time. Like, I've been to all the sites.

Got it. Okay. So, thank you for that disclosure. So, with that, let's start item number one. It is or item number two. Um the first one on the public hearing that's 276 East Campbell Avenue conditional use permit modification public hearing to consider the application of Mwell Properties Inc. to allow live entertainment limited to disc jockey performances and live musicians ending at 11 PM daily conducted in association with the new restaurant and bar DBA IA Greek restaurant on property located at 276 East Campbell Avenue. That's the former OPA site. The application under consideration is a modification to a previously approved conditional use permit file number PLN2025-150. Staff is recommending that this item be deemed categoric exempt from SECO planning commission action is final unless appeal in writing to the city clerk within 10 calendar days. Our project planner, senior planner, Daniel Farmer. Thank you. Good evening. So, the application before you is a modification to a previously approved conditional use permit for property located at 276 East Campbo Avenue for the pending Elliot Greek restaurant. The project site is a three-story commercial building that was most recently expanded in 2017 located at the southeast corner of East Campbell Avenue and South Pur Street in downtown Campbell. The space was formerly occupied by the Opus Greek Restaurant, which is an approximately 2600 square foot tennis space. And the property is located within the central business mixeduse zoning district, which is the city zoning district for the uh for the downtown.

The quick background on this particular tenant space. Back in October 2012, the plan commission approved a conditional use permit for a new restaurant and bar that allowed for late night hours, including a 12 a.m. daily public closing time, on-site alcohol sales that that would be both liquor, beer, and wine, outdoor seating, but did not allow for live entertainment. It specifically indicated that any subsequent request for live entertainment needed to be requested as part of a modification to the use permit. So that's what we have before you tonight is a request to modify the use permit to allow live entertainment. The applicants written statement specifically requests allowance for disc jockey performances and then staff also does recommend inclusion of live musicians for greater flexibility for the future. In conformance with city policy, the live entertainment would be ceased at 11 o'clock. And then the floor plan provided in your packet shows the DJ booth being located towards the front of the restaurant.

[clears throat]

In terms of review considerations, the city's downtown alcohol policy which was adopted some time ago, but generally it's intended to ensure that alcohol service performed in restaurants is ancillary to the primary purpose of restaurants being eating establishments. So they don't evolve into nightclubs or uh bars as you may see in some other cities. And so there are a number of operational restrictions that go into that. One of those is limiting live entertainment to live musicians. that's ancillary in nature and that concludes no later than 11 pm. Coincidentally, the question whether or not a DJ constitutes live musicians actually came up on this property and the current Willard Hicks restaurant site back in 2017. The planning commission denied that request which was appealed to the city council. The city council did uphold the determination that DJs were not strictly live uh musicians, but did find that DJ performances could be found consistent with policy under certain considerations. They ensure that the activity was ancestary to the dining experience and as noted in the staff report that includes limitations on amplification, dancing and prohibition of cover charges. And so to that end, the draft conditions approval will incorporate a lot of best practice measures such as no standalone amplification, ability for noise complaints to require the business owner to prepare a noise study or to reduce sound levels, prohibition on charging of cover charges, creation of a dance floor, requiring windows and doors to be closed during entertainment, and the ability for the director to curtail entertainment hours subject to the application being brought back to to the planning commission. And then of course, as with all live entertainment, an applicant must secure a live entertainment uh permit from the police department prior to commencing such activity. So therefore, in upon finding affirmative determination of the

findings required for a conditional use permit as well as on-site alcohol sales, specifically that the establishment will be consistent with the downtown alcoholic beverage policy. staff does recommend that the planning commission adopt a resolution approving the modification to the conditional use permit. With that, I'll take any questions the commission may have. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Any questions for our senior planner? Go first.

No, no, you take a few questions. [clears throat] So live entertainment versus musician didn't I don't know why it went to the council because a DJ might not be a musician but is certainly an entertainer and code is written says that entertainment live entertainment. So what can you say a little more about what was the rub? So you have at the kind of the high level what the definition of live entertainment is and that's a city-wide definition that applies everywhere. But then specifically to the downtown the city council adopted its own policy dealing with live entertainment and alcohol service within the broader downtown which is classified in this area but as well as East Campbell Avenue down Winchester Boulevard. And so that policy attempted to impose more specific operational constraints due to a concern that restaurants particularly in the downtown could evolve into nightclubs. And so based on the research that we conducted in 2017, it was pretty clear that when the policy was drafted that the intent was to specifically prohibit DJs and that was even noted in the staff report because DJs are associated with nightclub activity which was seen at the time to be inconsistent with a restaurant. Arguably we should probably update the policy to specifically say that one day we probably will hopefully but the time being given that this is a very similar circumstances the 2017 decision seems comparable

okay can I next one uh I didn't see anything about are we permitted to require security theoretically but generally the question of security is deferred to the police department as part of the live entertainment permit the condition of approval does basically to say that security shall be provided pursuant to the requirements of the live entertainment permit simply because the police department is better equipped to make that decision. So you're saying that they are empowered to require security? Yes. Okay. And then next one [clears throat] is is karaoke included in the terms of art used in the application as permitted with this thing? It would not be. No.

Okay. Is it is there a reason? Is that is that another one of these things that policy hasn't adopted yet? Because it would seem to me we could throw it in because it might be nice and I can't see it being any worse than

Fair point. I mean there's I mean there's some nuance to what extent the city can and really should be controlling the type of live entertainment but there kind of first amendment issues that go into it but generally the practice is not to be so expansive that you create again a scenario where this restaurant can just evolve into a nightclub which is something that is allowed theoretically. I mean, the policy strongly discourages nightclubs, but from a strict land use perspective, it is something that the city council could approve if they want. And and the last one is for performers. Can you talk a little about why that's a magic number here? Because that's not really a lot.

It's not, but again, it has to do with kind of the ancillary nature of the live entertainment. The city actually does allow live entertainment without a use permit in very strict circumstances. If you have a restaurant with beer and wine without a separate bar and in that scenario it would be limited to four performers. So I I believe the four performers has been kind of the standard number just to keep the concept of it being ancillary in place. I see. Okay. And you you've beaten me down. I'm done. And is is that four performance on any given moment or is it for different performance? You know any given moment? It's It's perfect.

It tells you that I don't get out much. So, okay. Um, any other questions? Let's start with this end.

Um, just real quickly, it it it doesn't really apply for this is more of a general question with regards to the question of a dance floor. So, has the has the city I know of a few restaurants, including one that's in Campbell where that it's a restaurant and they have live entertainment. It's a piano bar or couple people singing or whatever. they have, you know, an area and and so I'm wondering if the city has ever reconsidered the idea of a small allowing a small and and these places that I'm I'm familiar with uh around the Bay Area have a small dance floor right near where the live entertainment is that doesn't really turn it into a bar. It's just, you know, it's it could be, you know, 40 square feet or 50 square feet. Um, has the city ever thought in in those terms of allowing without moving tables, but to actually have a small dance floor in a restaurant environment? I

mean, not recently. I mean, again, the policy hasn't been updated, I think, since 2011. So, these are probably questions that simply haven't been asked. Haven't really rose into that top of the priority list. A lot of what we do is basically responsive to applicant requests. ask requested then we would have a conversation about it. Okay. Thank you. And no more question this side. Go ahead. Is there any is any of this different because this is downtown. Are there any matters of policy that are different because this is in the downtown area?

Well the downtown policy yes does apply the downtown I guess the broader downtown would be here East Camp Avenue and then Winchester Boulevard southbound. So that's really what governs kind of the context of this conversation with the questions that we're looking at in terms of the type of entertainment limitations. But okay, thank you. That's all I have. No, um the noise standards they're being asked to hold to. How do those compare to like you know the couple of bars on the street or to to Willard Hicks 50 feet? No. like just curious how this compares.

I mean, it's we don't have a strict 50-foot uh noise standard. I mean, it talks about obstructing the free use of neighboring properties so that it unreasonably interferes with their enjoyment. It's a pretty high standard. Yeah. I mean, recognizes that this is a downtown. If you're causing so much noise that the neighbors several blocks over can hear, that clearly is an issue. Um, that's helpful. Second question, like they asked for midnight. What specific like did staff have a concern with doing midnight versus 11? Like what what drove that? The policy specifically says 11 o'clock for live entertainment.

Can we grant approval for 12:00 except like is that is that an option for us as part of this? I mean it's not an ordinance standard per se. If you find that midnight is still consistent with policy for reasons that can be articulated in the same manner that we previously found that a DJ is consistent with the policy suppose but this has generally been held as kind of the appropriate line by both planning and police department staff. Uh but the other I mean like Katie Blooms and like there's other places on the street that are playing music past midnight.

There are Yes. And there was a reason the policy was created in the first place. And you was that after these it was so the premise is there was a policy created the places that are exceeding the policy it all got approved prior. Sure. Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.

But that raises interest question about impartial fair application to all citizens at the same time. I don't know where the legal grandfather clauses run up against people's first amendment rights to do what they want. So where does policy fall in that authoritative hierarchy? Is it just opinion good to know or do we really got to pay attention? Well, this particular applicant doesn't have any pre-existing rights to live entertainment, so it's not really a question at play. I mean, as for the other operations, the policy actually does have some language dealing with the potential expansion. It does allow for it, but it would provide an opportunity for the city to impose new operational restrictions on them, which they've opted basically not to pursue for that reason. So, they are grandfathered and they're allowed to continue to do what they're doing in Denver. Well, but let's talk. I mean, if they lowered the speed limit from 65 to 55 and grandpa said, "I've been doing 65 on this street for 40 years. I'm grandfathered in." That's not going to work. So, where does this authoritative source really come from?

So, Rob used to director use policy is a little different from speed limit.

Yeah. uh there are tools that can address. So, so typically when policies are adopted, when you get an approval, you have a vested right, you live under that approval, made a a financial investment given you condition, but if you live within the four corners of those conditions, generally land have an obligation to continue. The city has separate tools. Those aren't on the table here. You can city can declare certain things a nuisance can pursue moratoriums and amortization of uses. Some cities with billboards and other uses have required those uses to go away. Gets a lot thornier when you start to take away those rights, but in this case that does.

What I'm concerned about is a newer applicant, not this specific one, per se. Is it a competitive disadvantage to its neighbors that were there first? There's a certain unfairness to that. You know, can you see everybody piling out at 11 and going across the street? I mean, how is the city made better by that? Well, the policy again was created because there was a concern of just a overconentration of establishments. You just have a lot of intoxicated individuals, you know, exiting these establishments and creating a very real public safety concern. Which is why again for restaurants, which is what this is, having more restrictive hours is seen as appropriate. If somebody wants to operate a nightclub that opens to 2 am, they can propose that. it likely would face a denial recommendation consistent with the policy and if the planning commission denied it then they could appeal that to the city council who then could approve it because it's simply a policy of their own making.

Somebody they have a path to seek approval for a nightclub should somebody really want to be a competitor. Thanks.

Okay, thank you for all the questions. Um, now we're going to open it to the um, uh, we're going to open a public hearing and uh, this applicant here. Okay. Would you like to make a opening presentation? You're not required to, but you have the you have the prerogative. Evening, commissioners. My name is John Mimish. I'm the owner, one of the owners of 760 Avenue, the landlord. Uh, I used to be a commissioner out there. So, it's kind of fun hearing you guys talk and question and look at stuff and um I am circa when the downtown alcohol policy was formed and the intent behind and each one is kind of unique to that and each one is kind of unique to that community and that's one of the things we didn't want to do a franchise or something. We wanted to pick a local operator that could kind of that was in these other high-end retail locations that could find a nice niche here in Campbell. Um, and so, uh, I don't want to take up too much more of the time, but we're definitely available here for questions. We did have a lot of great interest. It's it it speaks to kind of the world we're in right now where the A+ the great retail gets great attention if you kind of fall off what we call B minus, C++ stuff is very hard to lease, but this is an A+ location and a great great spot and a great town. And so, um, we had a lot of interest and it was it was it was not actually that tough of a decision. Thought he's a great operator. I think he's going to do a great job. uh just a more modern take on Greek food than what Opel was doing. Uh yeah, if you have any questions, please please let us know. Uh they're available as well. Thank you for your

wonderful. Thank you. Oh, yeah. What's your what's your position with regards to this? I'm the landlord. I I own the Yeah. Yeah. Originally lived in Campbell, was actually on the commission and uh was a developer behind the the project there and then uh the second phase Charles Schwab up on top. So,

and officially you're in favor of Yes, we are. We are. And I I I I've worked with uh Daniel and Stephen uh back when we did the Willard Hicks uh DJ booth, which we did that the that prior ownership group was really passionate. One of the owners was a DJ. They did it not knowing they needed to do a live entertainment CPU, which became the nuance. I said, "What's the difference between putting this into a sound system versus a DJ? even if I put that in and I did this is that still you know so we got into the semantics for a little bit uh and uh at the end of the day we we want to do everything the right way and so we we brought it through the process but I don't think there was a precedent for a DJ that's why it had to kind of semantically get appealed to city council and run that course so that that that was kind of the history as I recall it so

so is the music going to be running throughout the dinner hour and I'll I'll let FAI speak to it but I know based on their other locations. It's kind of something that they want to be complimentary to kind of have uh and it's supposed to kind of run I think through the evening. Yeah. During dinner. It's it's it's more of like an elevated dining experience. A little bit more energy to it. Yeah. And can Mr. Fi step up please? Yeah. Come on up. Yeah. I'll I'll let Welcome. Good evening. Thank you. So there's a question for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I just I was just curious about the music with you know the Opa had a guy actually sitting outside on the sidewalk DJing music and I always wondered about that but um so is this is this

this is essentially background music for diners? Yeah, this is more elevated upgraded um music where um we usually play the after 7 and 8 o'clock. U we don't go like boom boom boom boom right away. Just kind of elevated with a background music between um seven and nine and little by little till, you know, 11 mid 9:00. We don't literally have a dance floor, but we when the music is there and when people are having fun and all dressed up and nice, we don't tell them, oh, you cannot dance. So we um so people do dance but around their table you know if they get up and dance and they're having a good time we cannot say hey ma'am you need to sit down or serve. So it's kind of that kind of way.

Do you have do you have DJs at all the other three places? Uh we only have it in San Carlos and Wley Creek and they're and they're doing uh food service the entire Yes. Yeah. Till midnight. Our um midnight require our kitchen's open till midnight. Uh full service. All right. Thank you. Any other questions for landlord or so it just is currently in what you're saying in the letter is you'd be comfortable with the live music ending at 11. You'd stay open to midnight without music that you're comfortable with that? Um yeah, as long as we serve alcohol till midnight too, we'll we'll prefer Yeah. But your preference would be

Yes, both of them. Absolutely. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, I think the just to end it, I think the I don't know if the semantics allowed to go to midnight or not. Honestly, one of the things I do like about the C is there's a lot of things in there to to check for good behavior, make sure everything's going there from between police, you know, legitimate complaints. And if it's something where we can prove that it's he's a good actor, everything's going the way it is, maybe it's something we can even come back in a year or two and ask for midnight. So, uh, but, uh, and I don't know if that's something that could be administrative or it has to be planning commission. Um, but anyway, we're they're open for 11. That's fine. Yeah. So,

but we don't do a cover charge. We at the door we say no hats, no hoodies, no flip flops. Well, we do have a pretty nice dress code. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. I have one question for staff after. Sure. Um, let me see if there's any other um uh any other public any other speakers. Are there any other speakers that wish to um address the commission on this item? All right. Oh, there is one. Go ahead.

Good evening. My name is Vickier. I'm the general manager of Walnut Creek location of Ilia and I have been there about three years and I want to give you a little more information about how we operate and what is our clients and what our community expects from us. So uh this is an elevated Greek dining experience. We are uh serving to our guests and we are operating uh Monday through Sunday and we have uh weekends brunch and uh some during summertime we do live entertainment during the day uh in other locations and also uh Wednesday Thursday we have a live music Thursdays we have a violin player goes between the tables we create a atmosphere we just like I have been in that excuse Excuse me. I have been in the city about nine years. That's why I know that atmosphere a little bit. Now I am invited to be an owner also and partner uh with party and I will be moving also in cample and I'm excited for it and during uh the construction time and I get to connect with everyone around the city and we just sit down talk and I like I like to be uh getting some information what people expect and first thing was like please no more Italian restaurant. I'm like, "Okay, I got you guys. I got you. We we are we are a Greek restaurant and and please don't close early. Everybody shuts down around 8:30, 9:00." And unfortunately during Wednesday, Thursdays, I just saw like town is like needing something and people are looking a few places and there are a few spots which is wonderful. And I'm young. I like to keep it going till 11 midnight. But uh while I was managing there was almost no

issues with like fights or alcohol abuse uh drunk driving. uh we we train our staff um with the policies we have internal policies and I just wanted to ensure that we are reflecting that to you and we are a good operator and I I'm pretty sure we'll be pretty successful with this uh open-minded city council as well because uh I see that city needs a little bit more flavor. I think we can just put a little salt and pepper into it. Thank you for that. You know, now I have a question. Um, uh, it's a little on the lighter side, but if somebody doesn't want meat, do you serve them? Uh, I have options.

I do have options. So, okay. So, um, thank you for that. My pleasure. Is there any any other questions for do you for designated drivers, you have a policy about free non-alcoholic drinks? Yeah, we do have non-alcoholic sections in our cocktail menu and it is about 30% of the menu is non-alcoholic. Perfect. Our signature cocktails about 14 cocktails and four of them is non-alcoholic. Four of them are non. All right. And here. Okay. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Looking forward.

Okay. Are there any online that we should address the commission? Okay. Seeing none. Um uh unless applicant wants to speak again, I was going to close the public hearing. Okay. Questions for staff. Um does staff want to um comment on what? Not the lamb part. I just wanted to highlight just so that the commission commission is clear. There is a distinction between dancing and creating a dance floor.

So dancing activity is free speech basically. So city cannot legally prohibit dancing but we can prevent creation of a dance floor by moving furniture. So the condition of approval very clearly says that what he described as perfect. Thank you for that clarification. Um any questions for staff. So if we approve this as is the live musician or the DJ at 11 o'clock stops. Could they for the rest of the hour they're open to just play pre-recorded music at the exact same volume? Yes. Okay. Yeah, I think you know where I'm going with this. Uh, can I go first?

Okay. I I think we should eventually update the whole city code. Uh, but this seems like a responsible business. It's not a dance club. This is very similar to Youth Next Door. They'd like to go to midnight. this feels incredibly arbitrary to cut them off. So, I suggest we approve till midnight uh the conditional use permit inclusive of them doing live music until they close. Throw in there that an incoming chair next year could a subcommittee. We certainly could sort of thing. [laughter] Yeah. Okay. So, we have a so we have a motion. Um

we haven't got a motion yet. That wasn't a motion. I was That's an idea. I mean, we should all comment on stuff, but I plan on Got it. So, it's not a motion yet. It was an idea. Um, we can start uh let's start from that side. Commission booker, do you have any discussions? Uh, I agree with Commissioner Fields. Um, staff put together a very uh wellressearched presentation. I think I understand the issues at play here and this seems like a very reasonable um request. Okay. Commissioner Audino,

I agree with everything that's been said and I I do think that it's it's a little bit arbitrary to stop one event, one type of music at 11 and the other one at midnight. So I I would agree with you, Commissioner Fields. We should explore that, make them both midnight. Okay, makes sense. Commissioners, there

um Yeah. Well, first of all, I think, you know, it's great we're going to have a a new tenant in that that spot so quickly. It's a it's it's probably the number one primary spot in downtown Campbell. We hate to see it uh closed. Um and so it's good that we have um somebody going in there. Um uh and you know, restaurants in downtown Campbell are kind of the heart of what makes downtown Campbell work. Um as far as the thing about 11 versus 12, you know, I I don't know. You know, there is some history that some of you may not be aware of, and maybe it's worthy of holding off until we go over some of the history that that goes back a couple decades with regards to concerns about the alcoholic establishments in the city and the proliferation of bars and the problems that came with that. There there is a there is a history that goes back and that the city council responded to. I I think I don't know 15 or 20 years ago. So, um it might be worthy of looking at that before deciding this is a restaurant. Most restaurants the restaurants in downtown close at 11 normally. um uh let alone uh you know so so and there's a very big differentiation that the likes to make between restaurants and bar and nightclubs and so I'm just saying you know if you if you want to put that up as amendment and include it um fine um but there is some history that's worthy of of trying to understand and whether or not it's applicable now I don't I'm

not sure but but it it had to do with problems occurring, uh, crime increasing, uh, too much too many people being drunk and throwing up on people's lawns when they're going back to their, uh, cars being parked in the neighborhoods, things like that, and and and people rotating from bar to bar in the city. So, um, so there is a history. So I would I would suggest that maybe um since maybe some of the commissioners are not aware of that history uh that that might be worth uh you know reviewing first. So, um, but you know, uh, the commission certainly can, uh, can attempt to put an amendment and but I'm I'm certainly in favor of of the, um, the resolution as it stands.

Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah, I think I'm um in favor of what this side was was saying about um allowing, you know, I don't see really the difference between plugging in an iPhone after 11 p.m. I do know about the issues you're talking about. I think it's a different clientele at this establishment. Um but, you know, that remains to be seen, I suppose. But, um I'm excited. I will say I'm very excited to see a more local um franchise rather than like some big, you know, um kind of thing coming in. So, excellent. Thank you.

Uh I much concurrence here. I my 35 years of adult life. I've lived these painful memories that have been alluded to and the no cover charge for me carries great weight because I remember the cover charge places were the ones that really got out of hand. So that makes it a completely different topic for me here. I would definitely go to midnight because I do not like the optics of the Irish bar across the street staying open an hour later than the Greek one. It doesn't sit well with me. [clears throat] So, I said, "Let's do that." I would like to include karaoke if that's a different thing and need it own approval. I just like to do it so we don't have to run these people through this again. And that's all I got to say.

Oh, other than thank you for choosing camp. Yes. I want you to hear it from somebody up here.

Thank you for that. So, uh, you know, that has been one of my favorite places to go. you know almost every time we come you know we first check that check you know the term pop off and had many good memories and so glad to see that uh responsible operators coming in to fill that void um and I concur with the the general uh idea to expand it to midnight um you know and of course the police department with their cu P have the power to advise us to do different in case you know things were happen but you know I'm also comfortable going to midnight as far as karaoke um uh you know may maybe be hold that one until um you know let's say next year until they have some uh operation under their belt you know and then come back and say see no calls for service you know let's expand I'll be very happy with that.

Okay. I'm not sure you covered every Did you cover everything? I apologize. Sorry.

I think your call to history is fair. I I think partially I'm basing it on just the way people drink is changing and it's decreasing generally across generations. And so I think if we were in a environment where that was growing, I might be more concerned. But I I I do think like the drinking culture that caused that downtown alcohol policy has changed in the intervening years and the way that this business wants to operate. This is like is not ringing any alarm bells for me. Um so I would propose that we adopt the resolution but modify the proposal so that they are allowed to do live music until their same closing time at midnight daily. Okay. So, we have an amended um motion or a motion with an amendment to what the staff was suggesting. Is there a second to that?

I second it. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Any other discussions? Hearing none. If you could please go through the rules. Commissioner Scissor. Can we hear what exactly we're Sure. voting on. Absolutely. So, it was everything that's the the staff had recommended. Everybody has to read the motion except from 11 to 12. So, somebody should read the motion. Since you made the motion, why don't you read it and then add Germany?

Okay. So, uh, we're we're making a motion on item number two, public hearing to consider the application to allow live entertainment limited to disjing, performances, live musicians, ending at midnight daily. That's the modification conducted in association with a new restaurant and bar on a property located at 276 East Campbell Avenue. The application or consideration is modification of previously approved conditional use permit file number PLN 2025150. Staff is recommending this item be deemed categorically exempt from squa plan commission actions final unless appealed and writing to the city clerk within 10 calendar days. Okay. Can can I ask a question before somebody? Sure. To the staff. This is kosher, right? We can do this. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm asking staff if there's some code or something that suggests we can't make this change. That's not And just to reiterate the chair's comment, the this is still subject to approval of a live entertainment permit through the police department. So they may not necessarily agree with the midnight. [clears throat] So okay. Okay. So uh so so the maker of the second are you okay with Yeah, I still second it. Still second it. Perfect. So we have the we didn't read the amendment. Well from the chair. Yeah that was the [clears throat] second.

Okay. So let's let's go through the role please. Commissioner Scissor I Commissioner Majki. Hi. Commissioner Ali. Hi. Mr. Kito. Hi. Mr. Buckwander. Hi. Mr. Fields. Hi. Can I congratul That that passes unanimously and welcome to Campbell.

Okay. We move on to um second. Let me go back up there. We move on to the second uh public hearing item. This is 700 West Hamilton Avenue major housing development project permit and listing tenative subdivision map. public hearing to consider the application of city ventures to allow construction of 173 unit housing development project at 700 West Hamilton Avenue. The project includes 89 town homestyle condominium units across eight fourstory buildings and 84 podium style condominium units housed within a single five-story building along uh along with the removal and placement of the existing site and landscaping improvements. Subdivision of the property including establishment of public and or private easements and necessary public rightway dedications and preparation of a final phasing plan for the entire project site. The application under consideration includes major housing development project permit utilizing state density bonus law to modify development standards and requirements of the city inclusionary housing ordinance and a vesting tenative map subdiv subdivision map submitted under a housing crisis act. Preliminary application filed in compliance with government code uh section 65941.1 file number PLN2024-189. Staff is recommending this item be deemed categorically exempt from SECO. Planning commission action for this item is shall be forwarded as a recommendation to the city council for

it tenative hearing on January 20th, 2026. project planner, senior planner, Steven Rose. Take it over.

Thank you. Good evening, Chair Camcar, members of the planning commission. Um, in addition to myself tonight, I just wanted to mention we are joined with our senior civil engineer, Roger Stores, as well as our project applicant is in the audience and I believe has a brief presentation uh for you tonight as well. Um, with that said, uh the particular project site is a single parcel. It's developed with an existing office building. It's former culinary arts center. So, currently occupied with a gym. Located southeast of the intersection south of Santos Expressway in Hamilton Avenue, the site's about four acres in size and has a general has a commercial corridor mixeduse designation which allows from 45 to 60 drawing units to the acre. Southwest, right? Not southeast.

Correct. Um the proposed project is for a major housing development project permit with uh which would have 89 town home units which are all fourstory buildings. It would also have a single 84 unit podium uh building on the site which you see here in yellow. Uh as mentioned I think even in the project description which the chair had read uh the project is utilizing state density bonus law and as such has a is granted up to two concessions and unlimited waiverss. The project also involves a tenative subdivision map again to uh subdivide the property, establish easements and also to provide for a right ofway dedication primarily that being along Gail Avenue or Gail Drive which results in a little culde-sac end of the street there. Uh so the design of the project again the town homes would all be four stories. Um they're about 40 48 feet in height. Spanish tile architecture, tile roofing, stuck stone detailing. The uh podium building would match, but it would be taller. It's five stories, 65 feet, Spanish style, tile, and stuckco and stone. So, as a state density bonus project, it does provide for uh affordability to meet the requirements of uh the law. Uh but in this particular case uh they provide 17 very low uh income housing units as well as nine moderate. Uh by doing so it does avail the project of again two concessions under state law. Uh and in generally state density bonus projects can exercise uh a density bonus. This particular project is not seeking a bonus. It's it's falling within the city's uh conforming uh density range.

[clears throat]

I think I've mentioned it more than once now, but again, this project would qualify for two concessions. Uh the way that this particular project would intend on using them is the first would be to wave the ground floor commercial requirements. This is a requirement along Hamilton Avenue in particular that there would need to be a ground flooror commercial tenant space typically. And the second uh is a little bit more interesting. It allows for an alter the approval of an alternative affordable housing plan. This is something that would be negotiated with the city post entitlement and could allow for relocation and concentration of the affordable units to the podium building. Uh it may also allow for additional market rate units to be constructed and uh receive occupancy earlier than typical uh typically would be allowed by the city's inclusionary ordinance. So meaning you could build and then sell more market rate town homes before all the affordable units come into play. But all of this would require city approval, would have to be reviewed by the city attorney's office. Um and it does require that there be a reasonable dead uh schedule and firm deadlines for fulfillment of all the obligations of all the affordable housing units so that we know that they will be built. Uh as mentioned earlier, the project does also qualify for unlimited waiverss to allow the product to be approved as designed. Uh in the particular case, uh the applicant notably would be seeking a slight reduction in parking from what state law would otherwise outline. also a request to allow for all the guest parking spaces be concentrated in one portion of the product is supposed to dispersed uh across our site. They're doing that mainly for efficiency purposes. And then lastly, there's a number of development standard setbacks, adjacency requirements, uh tree protection requirements, which would be waiverss exercised by the project as well. Uh so just a reminder I think this will come up at each and every housing project that we have uh come before you but uh our our review and our discretionary authority as a city is exceedingly limited and this is limited by the housing uh accountability act as well as the housing crisis act which

really limit our review to consistency with objective standards and general plan except for a density bonus or waiver and concession is required as is in the case of this project. Again, um the multif family development design standards, we did adopt them back in 2023, but for projects such as this where they are availed waiverss, compliance with the MFDDDS is broadly uh voluntary because they are able to seek approval as designed. And then general plan consistency is really that one one of the few standards which we really can hold firm firmly to but it just requires that the project coming with a minimum density which this project would exceed and fall within a range. Again if they were to be exercising a state density bonus they could go beyond above but they certainly cannot go below the city's minimum density uh for the site. Uh with that said and staff in the in the report we outline all of the required findings that would need to be made and we identify a staff how they could all each individually be made in the affirmative for the housing development project permit the best tenative subdivision map uh as well as provide uh the basis of a determination for a SQL class 32 categorical exemption for this project. And on the basis of those findings, staff is recommending the planning commission adopt a resolution approving this particular project. And that concludes staff's presentation.

Okay. Um, are there any questions for staff at this time? Yeah, I got plenty of questions, but I'd like somebody else to start. Okay. Um, I can start and then so I have one question right now. So, uh, when I look at the plans, there seems to be a direct connections from, um, one of our residential streets to Hamilton. Is there effort will be done to prevent cut cut through and overwhelming of the those streets?

Yeah, so uh when the project first came in, we did take a deep look at cut through traffic and the possibility of that. Um in this particular case, there are a very limited number of units on Gale Drive which would like which could possibly utilize the on-site street that you're seeing here on screen. So you really have 21 units which is part of another uh subdivision which was previously built on Graham Drive as well as a twounit duplex. Combined you're looking at maybe 20 23 units that would would come into play and possibly consider using this as a as a way of bypassing Daryl Drive. I see

it. There isn't a lot of traffic that would result and it would be certainly a lot less traffic cutting through the site than the current office building currently has coming out of the site or could have through the site if it was fully tened. You had all tenants in there. So yeah I for those reasons I mean there are there are stop signs on the sites but nothing beyond that would so so in effect it it acts as a like a not a I mean as a court you know where it doesn't have any outlets if somebody were to enters the residential area through the sides they um or are you

it does cut through so you could cut through so from Gail Drive you could cut north up to Hamilton. What we're indicating is that if that were to occur, I mean that would be a change of the current p probably circulation patterns of those existing household units. There'd be very few I mean you're talking about the minimous number. 20 23 units that we might consider doing that and and and we are broadly limited from requiring much more than what we already have for this particular project uh for in terms of traffic calming measures or otherwise it would

so I'm pretty familiar with these actual streets and I don't think it would buy somebody much to cut Daryl out of their life and with a couple of speed bumps in the new development I I bet you nobody would choose it because there's They can't make a left out of there. And to make a right, there's so many cars backed up from Santaas. Anyway, I just don't think it's a logically superior path. I would also offer I mean, we didn't do a traffic study on this given few number of units, but even of those units, maybe some of them don't even want to go eastbound on Hamilton. Yeah. They go westbound, you're splitting that traffic even half yet even still. So, it's like half of the 23 units.

Is that going to be a public street? It's a privately owned street. So So the city is not going to maintain that street. That's correct. Okay. But they couldn't gate it. If it's private, then they could if it was a hassle. Could they put a gate with a gate key up? Then it would be something which we would need to approve as part of the entitlement. It's not currently proposed. You don't want to gate right from a thoroughare like Hamilton. I guess I can go back up and there's no curb parking on that street on Daryl. There is street park on the new street. There'll be curb parking.

There is not curb parking. There are a number of guest parking spaces which are closer to Hamilton frontage of the site, but those are perpendicular to the the street. Okay. Uh Stephen, I just have a question regarding um fire department access and um did the fire department have any concerns about, you know, it's a one-way drive down these alleys about 150 ft to back in and out of or to drive in one way and back out? Did they have any concern? Fire department reviewed this thoroughly. I think it took several rounds of review, but we are at a point that fire was completely accepting of the design as presented. Perfect. Thank you.

Um one other question. So just the concern about Gail Drive, is that about people parking or just driving through there? The comment that was made uh I think earlier was to cut through traffic using the new development as a shortcut to Hamilton. Well, both ways actually, not just to Hamilton, but also from Hamilton. That is true. It could be used either way. My guess is the traffic will be back up so far you use Daryl anyway, right? I mean, that's a busy intersection. Yeah, it is a signalized intersection. So, to the point made earlier, you could be in a situation where you couldn't even get into the right turn lane, right?

So, it might be advantageous to go to Daryl so that you're not trying to get into a line of cars. Okay. Um, any other questions? Currently, there's just the gym in that area, that spot that's being um occupied. Yeah, I do believe that the gym is the only tenant of the building on the ground level. Um there are a number of wireless antennas and things like that in the roof, not occupant. And what percentage of that lot is that approximately?

So, going back to the That's a good great question. Um, if you're looking at the plan drawing here, it's really those kind of those first three rows of town homes up against Hamilton. It's roughly that photograph. Basically, it's a big unused lot almost completely. The rest of the lot's just Yeah. broadly just parking and tree and yeah, number of trees. So, that's phase two. There there's this phase one phase two thing. It seems to me that we've got about 500 pages of agenda here, so we should be asking questions. Um, so I have a Does anybody else want to ask questions? Because I got some. Okay. We're not paid by the question.

I know, but [laughter] but this is the largest development that's come to us for vote ever. Okay. So, um, so I'm interested in understanding it better. So, uh, let's let's talk about the phase one phase two thing. It's my understanding in reading this that phase two, which is those last three um buildings, which is where the gym is, may not happen. Could you explain that to me? Explain to me the phase one, phase two concept.

Yeah. And just for the benefit of the group, I'm trying to pull up a uh an image that shows the phasing plan from the resolution. So, give me one second. I reshare my screen here. [clears throat]

So by [clears throat] and large it's being presented really as two phases. Those areas in blue would be built first. There's some nuance to that which you'll see in the construction uh schedule about how a limited segment of of the street that which is abuing Hamilton would need to remain to provide fire department access for a limited period of time. But eventually that area would be all removed as part of the phase one project. The the office building it's correct that is true that it would be the second phase of the project. That's again that area which is occupied by those three rows of town home units I'd mentioned earlier. That's that area that you're seeing here in red. Right.

So yeah, the the entitlement is structured in such a way that it could allow for record. The product is code compliant, meets all the rules and requirements if the office building were to theoretically remain. Um but the the intention of the developer is to they need to build the entirety of the project because that's the only way the project meets our density requirements um and other and other requirements of state law. So they could build it in two segments as a phase project, but the entire project must be completed. They couldn't just leave. I thought I read somewhere where it's possible the phase two wouldn't happen. Was I misreading?

It's possible. Yeah. I mean the the phase two could follow the first phase, but it would must be completed as far must be complete. Okay. So So they're not going to demolish that building until are they going to demolish that building while they do phase one? not may possibly not initially and that might be the the clarifying comment. There's a possibility the office building may remain up for a period of time while phase one is completed and we do have uh security monitoring performance requirements about the office building out of concern that what it would mean to have a an otherwise vacant office building that's unoccupied and the concerns that that might present.

Okay. Would certificate of occupancy be given to the buildings that would be completed if that phase two is not started or yeah you could start to have a situation where phase one would start to get issued permits and and h receive occupancy of those units long in advance of even phase two starting but phase two would need to be completed as part of the project. Okay. You know, I was thinking if it if it wasn't, it's like, okay, if you leave the office building, it's like then it becomes a parking problem for the office building. It's like all the parking is gone. And so what happens?

Yeah. And to clarify that, there's also a requirement that upon uh the start of the project that the office building would need to be vacated and they need to provide to the city that the office building or I guess the gym as it stands right now would have vacated prior to advancing the project.

Okay. uh alternative affordability plan. I I don't really understand this. Um, it looks to me on the drawings that the plan is to have a distribution of of affordable units throughout all of the buildings, maybe with a disproportionate number in building one, but the possibility that they will actually shift most if not all of the affordable units to building one. Is that what I'm reading? Is that is that what they're talking about?

Yeah. And it's I'll explain it as the project as designed meets the requirements of the city's inclusionary ordinance in terms of unit placement, dispersement, um, and and mix of like affordability. The alternative plan, which would be what they'd be exercising via concession, would allow for them to effectively remove, see all the these town home unit, the the pink and the blue, these are the very low and moderate income units.

Uh with the possibility of concentrating all of those and to say the podium building or some other mix that would be yet to be defined, something that they can negotiate later. The idea or some of the logic behind this plan is that they do plan to partner with an affordable housing developer who might take on the podium building and as part of that project it might end up being 100% affordable for that component of the project. So the conditions are providing flexibility for the podium building to become affordable. It doesn't necessarily stipulate it must be 100% affordable. It's providing for a broad flexibility for the developer to come to the city with a proposal later to determine exactly um when and how they would be providing affordable housing in the project provided that at all times they are meeting our the requirements of state law which means that they're always needing to provide a representative mix of affordable housing in the project based on the number of units that they're providing and that they are guaranteeing backs stop language such that the entirety of the project is completed to meet the density requirements and also meet the affordability requirements.

Okay. So, so uh if I if I understand you correctly, if if we were to approve this resolution as it's written um or something close to it, uh there's no we're not guaranteeing them uh the the a choice of changing the affordability mix to building one. They'd have to come back to us [snorts] and get approval for that. Is that correct? No. So the condition language does provide it delegates that authority to the the community development director and the city and effectively with in coordination the city attorney's office to figure out effectively a different affordable housing plan than what you're seeing represented in front of you.

Okay. The commission and the council wouldn't be involved in that is what you're saying. That's correct. Okay. By the way, the no matter what we do tonight, the council is going to see this and vote on it. Right. That's correct. So planning commission's action 10 is just a recommending action. council will will make a final decision. Okay. Now, the the thing about uh dispersing affordable units around a development and and them being the same represent representative of the development in terms of sizes and stuff. Is that a a city or is that a state requirement? That that's a requirement of city's local inclusionary ordinance which can also be subject to a concession which is actually being utilized in this case. So the state's not required.

That's correct. So the state would be okay with us putting it all in one building. That's correct. Okay. All right. So um uh whi which uh phase is the podium building in? First phase. First that Yeah, it's technically phase one, but portions of the site would that the podium building probably wouldn't be built initially. There's a more uh detailed construction phasing schedule which is included as attachment. The idea would be probably the podium area be used as construction staging or the town home units.

Okay, another question. Fourstory town homes. Never seen never heard of them. It says four story in one place and three story in another. I know, but they're they're saying four story though. They are four story town homes, but the bottom story is just garage. Well, it's not just garage and a staircase. Okay. Okay. But but we've only seen three story where that means that there's only two staircases. There's now a third staircase and a fourth story. Is that how it works? Do you I couldn't find a layout and so I I've never seen four stories. There's floor plans. It's a very long I get four.

Okay. But I'm I'm just asking because everything we've seen has been three these threetory town homes and I've never Is this some kind of common thing that that is is is around? I I East Coast. It's a East Coast thing. Can I Can I interject on that? Yeah. Architect speaks. Full full transparency. I am a licensed architect, state of California. Um, and I think the reason why you see this, you know, multi-level townhouse, one is to meet the density requirements on a tight site.

Two, I've lived in San Francisco and I had a a place that was three stories. So, to me, it's not unusual. I think it's very appropriate. It's it's a way to solve the issues of low density, medium density, high density, and affordability. So, I understand why they're doing it, Gary. Um, the question is everything we've been seeing for the last five years, right? Has been threestory town homes. Okay. Because they've gone to threetory town homes to squeeze the the the the footprint and and still get a lot of square footage. I get it.

I've just never seen a fourstory before. And

what what's the question? My my question is is whether or not this is something new and different and whether or not it's common a common common thing that's that's been coming to places other than Gamble. um and whether or not it makes I mean I I don't I obviously I I don't think we have a a choice but it it's something very very different and and and um uh there's no extra kitchen in in in the story right there's there's not like uh so that this could be done as broken up into basically two places I'll address the first question which is just how common is this It it it is true. It's not as common. It's not common in Campbell. It is you are starting to see more of it happening in the Bay Area. Generally speaking, um as densities are going up, you're going to see units going there's not many other places they can go other than vertical or in order to maintain um these living spaces that we're trying to create. Um that said, in terms of the floor plans, they all just have a single kitchen. There are two units which happen to be um dual units. uh which within the project where the first I believe it's the first and uh first two floors are one unit and the upper two floors are another unit but that's just two of the units that are like that. All the other town home units are not structured in that way.

Okay. But those are specifically called out as units. They're considered separate units on the plans. Okay. Okay. I I you know so um I need to make a comment here too. So, it's not just because they want to squeeze more units that they do that. There's also all these other requirements with storm water and utilities and fire and to meet all of those conditions. No, they're trying to get 45 units. I know, but that's clearly it's been clearly stated.

What I'm trying to say is that, you know, there is so many requirements that they have to comply with. It's not just because they want to squeeze more units out of the We can disagree on that, but um

the I've also noticed that there's um a number of one-bedroom and studio units uh somewhere uh I guess in the in the in the in the big built in building one. I guess that's where the studio units are. I'm not quite sure, but there's there's a number of studio units. Now, these are all for sale, right? So the town Well, yes, correct. All all units in this project could be sold indiv individually. There the podium building is a condominium building, right? Those other town home units are generally three-bedroom units with uh the exception of a number of studio uh units as well, which are kind of like little smaller attached units.

Attached attached to what? They're attached to the town homes. So on the on the ends of the rows of the town homes are a number of smaller studio one-story studio units. Are those being treated as as they use? They're not accessory dwelling units. They're considered separate uh studio units. Okay. Well, that's what I thought because studio tunnel units. You know what I'm getting at is is that we've seen studio units and apartments, okay, come up that were as little as 350 square feet um in a couple of instances and which is small, but it's this studio, right? But it's also a rental. It's also a rental.

Okay. There's a 200 There's a 260 square foot studio in this in this in this development. It's a condominium. [laughter] So I to me it just that sounds ridiculous. I don't know who would buy a 260 foot condominium. Starter homes. That's Hi, I am in my 30s and I am looking to buy something. Okay. [laughter] All right. I'm the I'm the demographic right here. Yeah. All righty. Um, it's 260 feet. 260 square feet.

Lived with my wife for a time in a 260 foot apartment. It's apartment. That's That's what I'm saying. There's a difference between an apartment and buying a condominium. The cat got a little fat. Yeah. Well, okay. Anyway, um, so I Okay, next question. Could you explain the parking to me? Where? There's two car parking in the town homes. I'm I'm assuming tand. And then there's um the building one parking. Is there is there an underground parking garage or is it just all on the on the on the west side of the building?

So the parking is for the podium buildings at grade. Um really kind of wrapping the building on two sides. So you kind of enter on one side and then it's wrapping behind. It's canal levered the the podium building is canolvering over a row of parking but then beyond that uh the other parking spaces available on the site those which I had mentioned earlier are kind of near the Hamilton Avenue frontage with a number of perpendicular parking spaces which are kind of over on this edge of the site which includes a number of guests and ADA spaces and then beyond that yes the the town home units they have garages built in. So the so all those parking on on the upper part of the drawing there that's all for building one and those are carports. Do we know

those are open air? I mean so I I suppose those spaces which are underneath the the canal levered portion could be described as carports but I would describe them as covered parking. Yeah. Okay. And so but there's no underground parking. No no underground parking. Okay. Um, okay. So, the question I had about affordability. So, they went and they decided, um, you had a thing up there the there's going to be 17 very low and eight or nine moderate. Is that right? Correct.

And nine nine. Yeah. 17 very low and nine moderate. Now, is there a reason that they are not breaking that up into low and very low? Is are they getting an extra advantage by doing all very low? I mean, I'm not against very low, but I'm also in favor of low. And so, I would be in favor more in favor of it being proportionately, you know, moderate low and very low rather than it the vast majority of them being very low and no low. So they're pro, yeah, they're providing the greater number of very low housing units in order to qualify the project for two concessions under state density bonus law. So that's the basis of that particular degree of affordability. If they were to break up the mix as you were describing, the project would not qualify for two concessions, only one.

Okay. What if they took some of the moderate and made those low? That wouldn't gain them anything more than No, except we'd have some lows. That's we're trying to get some lows. Yeah, that's that that is correct. Moderates are easier, but they're they're they're exceeding the city's inclusionary requirements by providing the very low units. I understand. And those are those are going above and beyond our local standards, but and and and in so qualifying them for those two concessions described earlier.

Okay. All right. So, I thought I read about something about reducing the parking the park fee by 50%. Are you rejecting that? Did I read that right? Or is that going to be what we're going to offer them?

Uh the city does have within its park uh it's uh yeah, it's it's it's we do have a park in Luffy program. When projects like this one choose to provide make their private open space publicly available and provide access to that park, they could get a reduction in park fees. It's not 50% of the park fees. The way it works is it's based on the square footage of park land provided. So there's a onetoone relationship for every square foot provided. So if you provide a very small pocket park area, you're not going to get 50% of the total project fees wiped out. In this particular case, the project is not pursuing that option at this time.

Okay. But would that could you use the required uh land that you have to deal with water going back into the aquafll as a park and get this benefit that you were talking about? I I'm not very eloquent with it, but

yeah, I understand the question. Um I mean it does it is an engineering challenge to make sure that these areas detention areas can meet both the requirements of a storm water management system as well as being viable publicly available open space. Uh it can be done. Uh we haven't had that happen in the city. We've actually had very few developers even consider making their private parks publicly available just due to liability issues that come with that insurance and public access. But it's something that could possibly be engineered.

Okay. So, I just want to talk about the actual park they have there. So, I'm misreading it to say that bec if they make that park available publicly, they'll get a significant reduction in park fees. And you're saying we're not offering that. Is that correct? Yeah, I'd clarify. We we would offer it if the developer were to make their private open space publicly available. So, we weren't limiting their ability to propose that and then save the future with this entitlement, but right now they're not proposing to do so.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And let's see. Um, so, um, we've had no no neighbors express concern about this, um, development. Uh when the project first came in, we did send a courtesy notice out to all property owners as we typically do on these projects within a distance of the project. Initially, there had been concern mainly to do with maybe misinformation more than anything about the project, the number of units that were being proposed, number of parking spaces that we provided. By and large, as the public started to understand, my gathering of it was as neighbors started to understand the project in greater detail, their comfort with the project went up. And then at this point, I haven't had any comments in months from the public on this project.

Okay. Um, [clears throat] let's see. Trees. One more trees. We're going to hold you to that. Maybe we should This is a really big important project and I think it's worthy of us spending some time on. I'm not suggesting that you don't ask your question. I'm just saying maybe we can break it up to after they had a chance. These are mostly to the planner. These are to the planner. The reason I asked is that they may be in a presentation answering some of your questions. Well, if they don't hear them from me initially, they won't know how to answer. Okay. So, I'm asking I'm asking questions that I'm asking questions that I believe the planner can answer for me.

How many more questions are you I I think I think this might be the last one. Okay, then. Okay,

go for it. Okay. Um, uh, so I I drove down Gale and there's a real there's a real large line of very big fur trees. That really makes that street very nice. Okay. Now, are all those going away? I couldn't speak to the individual trees you're speaking of, but I could tell you that all the trees on the site are being removed as part of this project and as is their right as a density bonus project they can exercise a waiver to remove those trees. They are planning a number of new trees to replace those which are being removed as part of the project.

Okay. But I I read somewhere that they're they're asking for I don't know if it's a waiver or concession or something where they do not have to meet the requirement for replacement trees. That's correct. So, exercise the waiver does also allow them to remove trees on the property without necessarily requiring a tree removal permit. And the corresponding tree replacement requirements do not apply. Uh if the city were to apply its tree preservation ordinance uh requirements, they're falling a little bit below those requirements for a tree replacement ratio.

Do you want to know that what those numbers are? Uh trees removed versus trees replaced. I do know that it I believe it's in the plan set. I could pull it up, but it's it's a it's not a significant difference. We're talking about maybe I think if memory serves about the difference of 30 trees or so, less than what our tree replacement requirements would be. But again, we're talking about a much denser project and we're talking about tree protection ordinance and standards that predated uh by and large a lot of the density which we're currently seeing in the city.

Yeah. I'm just saying that the the the the trees on the property which you know are mostly on the edge of the property. It's there lots of big mature trees and you hate to lose them all. So can we can we make a condition for uh them having more trees to meet meet the normal requirement? really state density bonus law bars the city from requiring anything above and beyond meeting the the min um pretty much approve we must approve pretty much the product as designed. So we don't have the ability to even condition a single tree unless there's an objective standard and a prevalent like life safety issue that is being presented that that tree would certainly serve. It's a very high bar to ask for

you like air. A very very high bar. Okay. Um I think that's it. Thank you for being most of you being all right. Thank you very much. Any other questions? Yeah. I I hate to follow that. All right. Trivia question. Does the developer This is going to have an HOA when it's all said and done, right? Yeah. There's an attention there's CCNRs and formation of an HOA which would be minimally serving the town home. And is that HOA initially set up by the developer? Correct. Yes.

Is that HOA going to be set up from its inception as a nonprofit? You probably don't know and I'll ask them when they come why that would be wise. But maybe you do you know this one is are the HOA dues going to be the same amount of money per month regardless of unit size or is there a plan to to scale it based on because we have really different size units in the thing and 250 square feet at the same thing as one of these town houses seems a little unfair.

That's not something presently stipulated in the conditions in any way there. The city is a party to the development of the CCNR document. So the city attorney's office would get involved. But uh as far as parsing out exactly what the dues would be, that's a little bit that's a lot more specific. The city would get involved. And I don't I'm not trying to go that far. But almost all I think everyone I have personally seen as a tax guy, they charge everybody the same. And I and I think we need to rethink that as public policy a little bit. We can ask when when Okay, I do have one more question. Wait, is there any other questions? Seeing none. Okay, fine. Go ahead.

Okay. Okay. On the parking uh is the parking which is less than than what is we normally require. Are we in incorporating the half mile radius to a mass transit stop or is this under something else? Um it's not in that area subject to AB 2097 where there is no parking requirement at all. Um in this particular case the project would follow state density bonus provides its own parking standards as kind of like a byite figure. In that particular case the project that that standard would be 236 parking spaces. This project is coming a little bit below that and exercising a uh a waiver to do so and they're coming in at 224 spaces.

Okay. And I noticed that one of the ways they do that is that they're um assigning zero or one parking space to smaller units like studios and onebedrooms. Um do you know how they're going to accomplish that in terms of having somebody buy a studio or one bedroom that doesn't get a parking space? Do you know how they're going to do that? I I we do have I can ask the applicant. Yeah, we do have the applicant available in the audience. I know that she also intends to have a brief presentation herself as well. Okay, thank you. Might be of a benefit to the commission. Thank you.

With that queue, I would like to open the public um uh public presentation. If the applicant would like to make presentation, please come up. Sorry. Welcome.

I just Please introduce yourself and you have five minutes and then you have another five minutes at the end. Oh, thank you. your screen your screen. Thank you for bearing with me. [clears throat] Okay. May I begin? Yes, please.

Okay. Um, thank you so much, chair and vice chair and commissioners for being here today. uh shur made me realize that the city takes great pride over their design, which is why we drew inspiration from some of Campbell's existing gems that reflect Spanish Mediterranean architecture, such as the Heritage Theater and the Campbell Union Grammar School. It was this inspiration that led to the Spanish architecture which we presented in our various submissions with the tile roof, the deco tile, the stone veneer, the metal railings and light fixtures that match. Now to quickly review the project, as Stephen mentioned, we're providing 173 units town home and podium style on approximate 3.8 acre site that varies from studios to approximately 2100 square foot units. In addition um to this architecture, this project to me is a special place because it provides a place of two different worlds to collide. Gail Street provides the typical suburban feel while Hamilton Drive provides that urban mixeduse living. Focusing on Gail first, the first thing that surprised me was the unassuming dead-end street which has a basketball hoop used by the neighborhood. We're breathing life into this dead end by creating the quintessential culde-sac which we hope will create a place for community gathering and also contributes to vehicular access. There are existing homes on Gail Street that face um Gale and we continued this activation of the street to also have our town homes not only face the street but also included a sidewalk which currently there isn't one and added a whole new row of trees and landscaped areas in between each and every walkway that leads to all of the individual doors. Now to that spine of the project which connects the two world two worlds I previously described. Our goal was to

provide an urban thoroughfare that was commensurate to a wound north and that's very um prevalent in Europe and it basically it's a living street and that street behaves differently than a typical street. And lastly along with Hamilton being a corner lot we wanted to provide a certain and create a certain presence. So we also orinated oriented the homes to face on Hamilton and provided the lands landscape pockets throughout in keeping with the city's image street. Now I wanted to touch base on what I feel is the heart of the project. We were able to take roughly a 7500 square foot area which is what I'd like to call our secret garden or the urban green space that was really created with this development in mind. The John D. Morgan Park is less than a mile away and the Campbell Little League is less than a half a mile away. There's plenty of recreation to be had, but we wanted to provide a place to sit, breathe, even in this urban environment with this higher density so that you can call it home. And um I think I have a little bit of time left. Did you want me to answer um some of the additional questions that you have or I can just wait? Well, actually I'm sure there's questions for you. Let's start from this end and thank you for the presentation.

Thank you very much for the presentation. I appreciate seeing your perspective as to why it was designed that way. I had two questions. [clears throat] Um first, uh as you may be aware, the city is putting together a multimotal plan at the moment. How, um does this project fit into any existing bike infrastructure? Um, we don't have any proposed bike lanes on our project, but our projects are really conducive to more of a urban living as you might tell for town homes. And so that's really the core about City Ventures is we try to pick those infill sites that are that are accessible to transit and um which is why we have the line 56. Um I can't remember. I know that right now there the city is embarking into a big Hamilton vision plan.

I think that's a little to the east of there. But yeah. Yeah. And so and I and um which is why we had to be very careful about what we were um incorporating. Stephen, do you know what in that vision plan is proposed with regards to bikes?

The city has a number of public works improvement projects in the area. The one that's being referred to is the Hamilton Avenue public improvement plan. There's a reservicing project. Uh I do know that we are joined again. I'm going to introduce him in the audience. We have Roger and our public works department. By and large, there will be new green bike lanes being added to Hamilton, but ending uh I believe prior to this site that might extend the full length of Hamilton as part of the resurfacing project. The Hamilton Avenue public improvement plan is uh starts and ends pretty much at Winchester and Baskam. It's a more limited run of the city.

Can we can we have uh Mr. Stores um speaking the micro? So we are a little bit more clear on the extents of the greenback payment.

Now I apologize writers of public works. I'm not uh you know the city does have a resurfacing plan for Hamilton Avenue where we're basically resurfacing it from San Jose to San Jose from the west side to the east side east side to west side. So the whole street is getting um getting repaved cleaned up. Uh I know that our capital group u is working to incorporate as many um bicycle elements as possible. They are introducing bike lanes in some areas but I'm not exactly sure what the um proposal is for the frontage of you know this property this section.

First time hearing about this. It's very exciting. But I I would just simply add there is the city's multimmoal plan which is going to be looking at this is something the city's needed for a long time to look at bike trans multimotal connections more comprehensively. So as part of that plan it'll definitely pick up the area if it's not otherwise captured in the resurfacing project. Thank you. The the other question I had was I noticed that this is just at the lower end density available for the um project. Is that because that's where you wanted to develop it? Is it because it was difficult for to meet that with the um standards that we had in place? What was the reason for that particular density?

Yeah. Um 45 dwelling units per acre for development is tough. So what we wanted to make sure and what I personally took pride in was I wanted to make sure that whatever product I provided to the city was something that would actually be built. Um, when I was younger, I worked on a lot of tower buildings or more high-rise buildings and it's been inc I mean, you've heard what's happening right now with the economy. It's incredibly difficult to build. I mean, you can kind of see that in more of the city city areas like Oakland and San Francisco. And so this is where we strategically um Dan Hill here, my architect, we created these products to be able to actually build that typical kind of stacked town home structure and not have it just be this vacant site that gets entitled and then frankly never gets built. And so that's that's why you have what what Stephen likes to note as I created I curated product specifically to meet that 45. Thank you. That's a very good explanation. So the the economic situation meant that this is a con a constructible buildable set of building technologies. Thank you. That was all the questions I had.

Okay. Do you have any questions for that? Um, first I'd like to um really uh commend the architectural presentation. Um, this package is very large, very very much full of information, which is great. Helped me understand the project better. Uh, the one question I have is with that interior park, um, you say it's for the residents, which is fine. How do you invite the neighborhood to come in or do you not invite them to come in to visit or use that park? I mean, how does it how do you balance that?

Yeah. Um, this gets asked a lot because something that I love doing is to be able to kind of provide these secret resting places so that you don't have to walk a half a mile to be able to sit. I have young children. Um, and when I was before children, I had dogs and I didn't want to have to walk all the way to the public park. Um, so this is really meant for its residents and its guests. And that's why I kind of kind of call it a secret garden. Um, because you have access to the John D. Morgan Park, the Campbell Little League, and then to the northwest, you have an additional much larger park that's 1.2 miles away. So if you really wanted to have a large gathering, you would go to the actual park versus this secret garden, as I call it.

Right. Okay. Uh the only other question I had was just curious about one of the garages shows an accessible parking space. Um yet there's no elevators in the building. Yes. So how is that how's that addressed? I mean you show accessibility, but then the site may be accessible, but how do you get somebody up to an upper level?

And I I'll have Dan Hale that there's a specific code Good evening, Dan Hale Jones. Um, very good question. Um, the way the Cal, [clears throat] excuse me, building code is written. If there's no living space on the ground floor, you had to provide a powder room. It's called visit visitability opportunities. I see. So, you could have a guest that could come and visit and have facilities uh as needed, but we're not required to provide an elevator to uh What would you consider mainly the

So then the code would would hope that the owners would accommodate that force by bringing them upstairs to visit. I think maybe uh when you see the the symbol in the garage is meant to mean the unit meets the requirements of visitability not necessarily that is a handicap unit. Okay. A better answer I think so. Yeah. I'll take an over. You're talking about the town homes though, right? Yes. The four-story town homes. Yes. What about in bu in building one? Is there going to be an elevators? Five building one's five stories. That is an elevator building that is fully adaptable and accessible.

Okay. So, so is the is the four I'm done this fourtory thing. Have you built fourtory units like these in other places? Number one. And number two, does that mean it's there's three three levels of staircases? City Ventures has built the product in Mitus sold very well. People like the unit. Um you have an additional stair to go up the extra flight. I think what this potentially new unit type provides is a townhouse style living at these density ranges versus a corridor building. the five story podium building is a completely different living. I understand that.

So that's what we're providing is townhouse style living for these people. So you've built in Miltreat fourstory town homes. Yes. And and and we're not the only builder um that's building it. You have PY Brookfield City Ventures and many many others that are building primarily in areas that it fits. So Silicon Valley is huge for this type of area. It's gone as as far northeast as Dublin um and in Southern California also. And Santana hasn't sto Yeah, because they got the parking underneath and then the four bedroomedroom town houses with three levels and I've been in it. I mean, is that

is that is that on the east side of Santana? Well, now you're going to get it's not in the main area, right? Well, it's they have a couple buildings that are dedicated residential buildings that have hundreds of units and it it's there. It's a Olan and wherever the park is. I'm sorry. If I can bring the attention back to So any anyway, the other question I had was um partnering with a um partnering with a I assume a nonprofit affordable housing uh developer. Have you picked one? Is it somebody like Mid Peninsula or Abode or somebody like that? check.

Yeah. So, we we have we've been in discussions with our affordable housing developer from the beginning because originally um we were going into this project with them. Unfortunately, a lot of what's happening with LITC housing or lowinccome um lowincome housing tax credit financing is quite burdensome for affordable housing developers. um and there were certain stipulations of timelines that the um Campbell ordinance required of them. And so what we did was we increased our affordability in order to provide flexibility for a future partnership. And that was the best thing we could do because um this the the way LITC find and I am not an expert in LITC financing by the way but the way it works is that there's bonuses that are given to financing based on what area you're in that HCD by the housing the state of California housing community development department designates what's called QCT or SDDDA area small difficult both areas and if you're in those areas, you're able to then get a boost in the financing. Unfortunately, we are adjacent to that area but not within that area. And so, this is where we went above and beyond to create that additional affordability to provide that concession in the event that things change. HCD decides, hey, you're you can get the additional um low-income housing tax credit financing here, affordable developer partnership, and that just opens up an entire avenue of an of a greater benefit of affordable housing opportunity.

So, you're you're in limbo on this right now. Are you uh optimistic? I I'm always if I wasn't optimistic, I would not have provided um 17 uh very low units to do it because that that hurt us financially, but it provides and unlocks an opportunity later. Thank you. Um Commissioner, any questions? Commissioner Onley, any other questions? Yeah, Lee, have you thought about want to help find out here with bike loggers? bike law. We So we do have we do have quite a a number of bike parking. Um and it is shown on on

but they're not they're not secure boxes basically so bikes don't get stolen and vandalized. So every there's there's bike parking in everyone's garages which is your own. Oh, you mean just separate for guests? No, it was I'm thinking like the studios and stuff because you don't have parking space. They're going to need other things and you know if their means of getting around is a bike is probably pretty expensive and they would prefer to be out of the elements and just gonna I'm feeling like I'm waving your flag a little bit.

Just going to throw this out there. Um I think we require that everybody have two parking spaces. Um we use one for a car and the other one has two bikes, a scooter, all of our trash cans, a [clears throat] workbench, etc., etc. internet. Like my HOA prohibits parking our bikes outside and like we have like everybody else just fills the garage with junk. Like we are requiring two parking spaces. If somebody wants to have a bike, they can fit in the garage. But but some of these units don't have that option. Do any of the units not have two parking spaces? So the studios do not have their own garages. Um

Okay. There's so you have to haul it up to your There's only a few um studios out outside that are not within the lot 2 building which is the podium. Gotcha. So people just have to put it on the wall inside I guess. Okay. And then so my now my real question was the HOA thing. So are you you're going to set up the HOA, right? Yes. Um so I I do have answers for you on that. Um, so by the way, I want you to know I'm really a fan of the project, but I know how the financing works from the end owner, the purchaser, and it affects their carrying capacity to get a mortgage when the HOA dues are really high. Yeah.

So, that's why I'm sensitive to this on the smaller units that are going to be lower price. It's even a bigger hardship and if they can't finance it, you're not going to sell it. So, uh, the so to your first question, um, an HOA is a nonprofit organization. So, even though they collect Jews, they don't operate for profit. So, that was your question number one. If you set it up that way, so make sure you do the paperwork right. Yes. Yeah. And then the second question is, by law, every unit depending on its size, it has a variable. So, a studio is paying far less than the 2100 uh square foot uh town home. Thank you for that. All right. Question.

Uh, thank you for answering the questions. Do you have rough timelines for the phases?

Rough timelines. Um, the idea is so there's, as Stephen mentioned, there are three three major phases. Construction 1A, 1B, and um, construction phase 2. So, the only reason why we had the construction phase 2 was just to allow there's a tower that's on top. It's just for them to finish their lease. And so the idea would be that after entitlements, I would go through the process of permitting the plan. And I believe it's in the back of the conditions or at the at the end of the plans, Stephen inserted my my write up about how we would proceed with construction. And all of this was um coordinated with the fire department with Roger um and this the team. But the idea would be that we would start braiding everything on site. So the backbone infrastructure already feeds all the units regardless of it's in a future phase to make sure that you have that right that opportunity that opening for when it's when it's ready we can go.

Okay. I have two questions. One is follow up on the question that commissioner asked is uh as planning commissioners you would know that we're interested in increasing the number of units to meet our arena requirements for state can these units become subdividable you know like the you know so that you will have your you know equivalent of let's say J AU within your threetory townhouse is that is that possibility. So, number of units goes up. Oh, I can jump it on there. Um,

am I planting a seed or [laughter] m multif family housing products? Do you have the ability to have JDUs in the city of Campbell? There could be limiting factors with an HOA that could limit the ability to have JDUs convert those existing spaces, but that's something that would be not it's not currently being presented or proposed as part of this project. I mean, the laws might change in the future as well. So, who knows what the future holds in terms of the future of this project, but as it stands, but maybe you could recommend to the city attorney to when they write the CCNRs to remain silent on the matter. So at least you don't make it harder.

I would add that the the CCNR is a portion of which the city inserts itself in the CCNR documents is generally for the maintenance of storm water treatment facilities, things which are in the city's interests to maintain and ensure that are being done with a project. I don't know if we could go so far as to suggest Yeah, it might be overreaching. I think we could make the recommendation to the developer to consider it. Um, here you go. Here's your check. Increasing or increasing units is to the interest of the city. That's true. You could argue that. Yeah.

And and and also remember that half half units, you know, were, you know, there were half units possibilities. So So I'm I'm just throwing the, you know, the idea out, you know. And then my second question is regarding so the reason [clears throat] Zanos is because they sell quick, right? had if there were condos that sold as quickly, you would, you know, be building condos. Um, and so, um, what is it about condos that, you know, I mean, if I mean, as I'm getting older, I rather be on a flat condo, a little bigger than having to go up many stairs, and also give up so much space for the stairs, you know, too. So, um, what is it about condos that, you know, they don't sell? I mean, your noisy neighbor upstairs, you don't have that. So I I I would say that from a our at least our goal is to try to make the units as costefficient to others as possible because at the end of the day whatever cost we can't absorb gets passed along and this is what's exacerbating the cris the housing crisis and so what I will say is that certain building types that are allowed by the California building code are actually more expensive to build. So to your point, anytime that you go over four stories, you automatically got get out of being able to build type five housing, which is wood frame. So it kicks you. It's it's about the height of a vulnerability of the element, which is wood. So once you start going into higher stories then you start that's where those uh mediumsiz where you start having type five over type one which is concrete which is what

you're kind of used to

see concrete on that right there can where what depending on where you are I am not an expert in purchasing um but depending on where you are that could double or do 1.5 the cost of going vertical. And so that's why we're trying to avoid passing those costs along. Now, um this is a bit of conjecture about um marketability, but I think when it's interesting because I think when for starter homes, there's something about having the starter home feel like it looks and feels, you know, like a duet or like a um like a single family home, but that that's attached. And so I think that's that's also what on a personal level what I think that that town homes provide is that kind of pride in home ownership of I can go outside and I can that's my door right there you know but that that that is not the views of that's just my own personal opinion of having done this many years. So the only thing I could actually factually state is just about the stark difference in cost of building when you have different building types for the California building code. That answer your question?

Yes. Thank you so much. One more. Sure.

So, first of all, we had a developer on here who said six stories. They they can't go wood beyond six stories. You say four stories. So, I don't know what the deal is, but those those were apartments. Um [laughter] but um which was interesting to me because I'd never known that before. Um the other condition of approval number six was added in response to concern from residents uh regarding enforcement of those newly established conditions of approval. Uh that particular condition required for uh six and 12 month interval check-ins with the planning commission. Uh following the effective date of the permit to allow for uh just checks on see how things are how things are going. Uh our we had initially planned on our first six-month review occurring in October. They've been delayed to December due to just reduced staff capacity. So, the purpose of tonight's item is really to provide a compliance review of Home Depot as required by the conditions of approval. It's summarize really the past four months of inspections that have been performed by the city's uh consultant uh uh uh code enforcement uh department CSG. I do believe is Randy. Oh, I you're blocked by the monitor for me. I was going to introduce you earlier. We're also joined uh tonight with uh Randy Sweet, the city's code enforcement officer, is available to speak more to the item as well. A and also received direction from the planning commission if circumstances warrant uh a recommendation to council to revoke or modify the permit. That was the idea behind the six and 12 month uh compliance checks. Uh so by and large, we have been conducting these uh code enforcement inspectors on a weekly basis. They've included a variety of days and times with a with an emphasis on AM and and PM compliance. Really, when the store is opening and closing, make sure they're abiding by those times that they should be blocking gates and closing doors and weekends. Uh so far, 12 inspections have been completed to date. There's an additional 14 pending. So, we have

several more months of compliance checks that will be ongoing. Uh the staff report does summarize compliance into three broad categories which describe as largely compliant uh out of compliance while making progress and compliant we'll describe in greater detail in these next slides. Uh so largely compliant are there might have been a a a handful of exceptions. I think if any business you were to go to you would probably catch something not being right at some point in time. So that's really what we're picking up on. Uh for instance, there was there had been two times where it had been observed the business was not operating consistent with its approved hours of operation. Uh that being that it was opening a little bit early. Uh delivery and parking lot gates uh again was an example that just not being opened and closed at the right times. Um the business is uh operating otherwise with approved delivery requirements. There's one exception of that. uh and that the property is being wellmaintained is another thing that we were checking for for our code enforcement uh consultant contract. It's like litter and debris, things that of that nature on the property. Minor stuff and by and large a lot although we at any property at any point in time if you're customers we could drop something. Home Depot has been doing a good job picking up those items and cleaning up by the time we do the next routine inspection. Uh now the second category is where we're finding that the business the operation is a little bit less in compliance. is out of compliance by and large, but they are have made significant progress. Uh this is to do with the outdoor storage of material. Home Depot had gone from a position where they had routinely and for years been storing large amounts of lumber and supplies along the perimeter of the building along the rear inside the property. Part of the conditions of approval, we're trying to clarify where that storage would occur, but it is a significant operational change. It's taking time for Home Depot to adapt, but we are observing progress in that area. And then there are other other there are

additional conditions of approval that were included which had to do with staff congregation, employee parking, AM when they arrive in the morning. And we have not observed any issues in that area. And so the report pretty much identifies those items as compliant. Now I do want to speak to that one area there are a little bit more out of compliance and just provide a little bit more of a summary of again although they are we are still observing challenges the just the amount of progress that's been made here. So the example here on the screen uh his Home Depot has merchandise display areas in front of the building. A number of those out those loading unloading zones which are mainly for customer vehicles picking up lumber were also being used as display areas. And you're seeing here on the left you're seeing significant like you've got uh barbecues and you've got uh potted pots for plants. The existing conditions are not like that. there might be the the occasional thing that's out of out of place, but it's nowhere near to the degree that it had been. Same goes for some of the storage on the side along the side and the rear of the building. It gets a little bit technical about exactly where they can store items, but they have making been making progress in on those fronts as well. One area of greater concern is along the rear of the building. This is also a fire department access lane. So, for purpose of getting a truck around the building, um we are trying to make sure that we are keeping those areas clear. And among the things that we're working on is adding striping so it's clear for a lot of the employees on site to know exactly specifically where they can put things and to put signs on the sides of the building that indicate the maximum height they may stack things. So those are things that you're working on uh through a building permit application the city's actively working on. But again, you're just seeing the the degree of difference between prior conditions going back into let's say June of this year versus uh more recent conditions of the property. And uh for these reasons in the report uh we do describe that although we have observed that the there have been violations they do staff does not consider that them to warrant uh

revocation or modification or recommendation such to the city council this time just in consideration of the significant progress that's been made by Home Depot. Uh, and as such, staff is right now we're recommending ongoing monitoring for compliance issues and determining whether further actions warranted when the item comes in for this next six-month review, 12 month, which would be in the spring 2026 time frame. And that concludes staff's presentation on this item. Okay, thank you for that. Any questions for staff? I got I got one. You got you can Why don't you start?

Um, very thorough. really appreciate the reporting and also glad to see the progress. I just had a question on the sort of outdoor merchandising. Um, not in the loading zone, but like on the sidewalk, there's some photos in the packet. Um, are I couldn't tell. Are we saying that that area is now compliant or like still on the path? cuz like this is very specific, but I've sometimes taken carts back there and I still find you can inadvertently over the curb like not where the potted plants are, but like in between um the front entrance of the store and the garden center, there's like a row of actual live plants and like is that now compliant or is that still out of compliance? Home Depot's working on it.

Again, inter intermittently, we'll observe that there are items that are not being stored within their designated areas. The area that you're describing, if it's on the north side of that walkway path up against the parking, I do have exhibits. I was hoping not to go into that level of detail, but I can show. So, in it's not it's not going to be clear enough at this detail. Um, there are areas along Home Depot where they have designated storage and display areas. I mean that purple on the right. The purple on the right. All that area is permitted with the exception of a 4 foot walkway path. It must be maintained for clear access. 4 foot walkway path and and that's what they're working on on hitting those high marks.

So we're not there yet, but they're working because that's the only part I'm still noticing was not I think it depends on the time of day and day of the week that you do visit. I do know that our code enforcement officer, Randy Sweet, had gone out to the site earlier today and observed there to be no violations of storage areas. Thank you. Okay. You're going to be so lucky. I've always got questions.

Um, so, so I saw one p. By the way, the pictures are got the wrong street up. So, whoever's doing the picture, you got Harrison Avenue. So, got to fix that. Um, I have a sickness where I can see those things. So, um, it's not the only one. Yeah. Right. So, [laughter] so, um, the the the one where where there's a a truck idling in the parking lot an hour and a half before it opens. How does that happen?

Yeah, I can speak to that generally. I mean, that's actually an example of the conditions of working because you have so many different network operators and truck delivery drivers are coming from all over uh the region. The idea is that we were trying to stop those trucks that do arrive an hour early from going up and behind the building, idling behind the building where they'd caused disruption to neighbors. Right. In that particular case, yes, a truck was observed. It was also observed that the the gate was doing its job. The gate was locked. It hadn't been opened yet. And that's why the truck was observed where it was rather than in an area that it would be uh but there's not a gate at the Selmar. There's not a gate at Selmar.

Not at the entrance of Salmar. There is one a little bit more interior of the site off of Salomar. And then there are there's an additional gate that serves that kind of that rear uh driveway area of concern. But they're not I assume that they're not supposed to be idling in the parking lot either, right? There I wouldn't say that there is a specific prohibition against that in the conditions of approval. I mean there is an idling standard that they should not be idling any truck for more than say 15. They need to shut off the trucks. Okay.

But as far as just parking and leaving a truck there while waiting for the the gates to open, that would be something that the conditions would allow. All right. And the other thing about litter, you know, I I've been to Home Depot a lot and to me it, you know, I it looks like they cleaned up the back really nicely, but but and and generally the parking lot, which is huge, looks pretty clean compared to a lot of other parking lots that you see. Um, do we know how often they clean their parking lot? you know, like out in the vast recesses of the parking lot and that little trail area on the on the west side.

Yeah, I I would offer that the store manager uh is available in the audience if you speak maybe a little bit more to those operational um actions of their of the of the employees on site. I I would say just from staff's observations, we're not seeing typically trash is inter intermittent. It's ephemeral, right? It's coming and going as customers come and go to the site. Yeah. that we're not seeing that trash piled up, the the garbage which would typically rise to, let's say, a code enforcement level of concern because it is being picked up with some great deal of regularity. It's not weathered. It's not faded newspapers. Not the typical stuff you see piling up. I could only conclude it's being cleaned up daily, if not maybe even okay, minimally weekly based on just inspection reports. No,

could me. Okay. Okay. On the list. Yes. Nothing. Okay. Hey, staff. If I get this right, can you turn to page 452 in your package? And I'm I believe there is a logical inconsistency here. And we're talking about number nine, hours of operation. Hours of operation. Okay. There.

Yeah. So, if I'm reading this right, you got hours of operation on Sunday, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Okay, fine. But then you've got indoor staff hours that say you can't be inside between 6:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m. on Sunday. Is that really what you mean? There's nothing wrong with the indoor staff hours related to the business. Look at B versus A. So, A, you've got business hours are 7 am to 8:00 PM. And then B, indoor staff hours shall not be between 6:00 am and 7 a.m. Shall be restricted to those, which means to 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., excuse me, 8:00 p.m. to 6 a.m.

So, it's 6:05 a.m. Are they allowed to be in there? So, there's a gap of 6 a.m. to 7 a.m. That's my point. Yeah. probably want to make that 7 a.m. like you did for Monday through Saturday.

I see what you're saying. Till 7 a.m. That's what I would suggest. But I I my reading of it is it's providing for broader hours of indoor staff. So that staff may be in the building for setup and then the customers are then arriving an hour thereafter. What time can they be inside for setup? 6 am on Sundays. Commissioner, you're observing there's a one hour gap difference between Sunday. Yeah, I think we're not sure what might be behind that, but at some point in the future it might be opportunity to go that way. So, I recommend you change it to 7 a.m. I think is what you want to do.

Okay. And so the and then the other comment I have is unrelated to this all is

I have a lot of experience with the Home Depot and going back decades um and they've been kind of non-compliant for a long time like years and years and as much as we want to say how much improvement there has been it only shows me what they're capable of doing when they really want to. And I weigh that against the years of non-compliance on the very subjects that you're pointing out. And the one that's not listed in the staff report that I have experienced routinely is when those sidewalks are clear of merchandise, there's customers who park there on the sidewalks like it's a parking space. And I can't believe that didn't make it in any reports because it's 50/50 that that's going on anytime I go, which is several times a week as a measily licensed building contractor when we have all these civil engineers and architects. So it makes me wonder about the depth and extent of the enforcement observations going on. So I suggest we bring that up when when the applicant or another

this leads to my question is is it within our authority to suspend the use permit for a single day and is that something we can do? I I it's it would not necessar action to suspend the use permit would require a revocation action. It wouldn't I also wouldn't be clear exactly to what extent you'd be revoking or even suspending the permit for what activities and for what purpose.

Well, my purpose would be to gain permanent compliance, not best efforts or good deeds on a temporary basis. The second one would be is my is my belief there have been no sanctions whatsoever. There's just been a lot of paperwork, ink, and words. And lastly, um I want to know what sanctions can be imposed short of the nuclear option of complete revocation. So two things. Uh Pine Commission doesn't have the powers to modify or revoke the permit. That's what city council.

That's why you suspend is the word. If if if you believe there's evidence in the record that they're violation and you want to make a recommendation to city council to modify or revoke the permit, you are within you could pursue that path. Uh city does have a multitude of code compliance tools. You always have code officer suite come up. We've used them in numerous cases. Uh I know with Home Depot, I I'll have to remember if we used them in the past. Uh I know in terms of the compliance right now we've talked about if they're not any certain milestones in the future we might use those going forward but as senior planner Stephen Rose mentioned at this point staff's observation is generally they are and if I may add just one other we do have 14 additional inspections which are pending. So what I might suggest if we wanted to direct the attention of our code enforcement contract team to focus on certain compliance issues, that's something that is well within the power of the planning commission to advise us as staff tonight to take a look at on an ongoing basis for that next six-month review when this item does return for you in the spring 2026 time frame.

Okay. Okay. Can I can I ask a question about that? Just so I'm clear on what your concern is. So, you're saying in the front part of the store, uh there's a sidewalk area where people walk to get into this get in and out of the store and that you've you've seen um cars parked over the curb. Yes. Many times, but it also includes their vendors. Like this Saturday morning, the American gas truck was parked literally on the sidewalk in the fire lane doing his changing of propane tanks. Okay,

that Home Depot didn't have what I needed. So, I went to the one on Camden. Coincidentally, the same dude finished his route, went over to that one, and did the same thing over there. So, this is a vendor management part of that equation, as well as just contractors deciding they want to they don't want to push their thousand pound cart, you know, an extra 50 feet, so they park right next to the door. I get it. It creates quite the hazard when you're trying to get because because that that you know it's yeah I'm not questioning whether or not it's a good thing or not but I don't know if it's on a list of things that code compliance though maybe it can be added to be looked at. That's all.

Okay. Thank you for those comments. Um I would say um if there's no other questions for staff, we're going to um I mean uh I guess I guess we can hear from the other question. Go ahead.

Uh, Stephen, is it possible to require physical barriers to like this picture where this white truck is kind of straddling the parking area and a white yellow striped loading? I don't know if that's for loadings or no parking, but perhaps if you had a physical barrier like ballards every four feet or so such that you can't park straddling the the drive aisle and the concrete walk surface, maybe that will prevent trucks from doing that. Yeah, I'm not entirely clear as to the location of the concern, but I I I would

his purples. Remember when he talked about Mitchfield said the purple the purple area. Okay, I can pull that that particular exhibit back up the screen. I I would offer there is an intention of what we're working on Home Depot with is a building permit application where they'll be adding much clearer striping and notations on the ground indicating

storage, no storage, display, no display, black and white, super clear. So that it's very uh you do have inter you have staff that come different hours different days uh that make it very clear what they are to be doing. It is much more different times that both can document and give feedback to Home Depot on what's working or not. So so this is a brand new tool uh that the city's used and to answer your questions funded by Home Depot. We contracted with code enforcement staff to do the proactive. So funded by them but chosen by the city. Yes. Okay, thank you for that. Um, if you could please address some of the uh issues that you heard, we really appreciate.

So, so we clean the parking lot every day, multiple times a day. Um, we do our best to like I know they said something about the fruit vendors. We call the police as soon as we see them and they come and they make them leave. So, they actually hardly ever come to our store anymore because they know that they're going to get kicked out. Um, we do call the police for day laborers, but there's some type of thing with loitering. So, they typically come and they've told me personally um, not to call again for day laborers that we could only call for three vendors. So, that's what we've been doing. Um, this is police department telling you that.

Okay. Can can we ask staff? Is that a is that legitimate a legitimate reason for the police to say don't call as a daily burge? on the sidewalk versus on your property. There was a question. There was a question that wasn't as there's certain constitutional protections for not removing the day laborers here from the premises. Those protections, my understanding is that those protections wouldn't apply to the fruit laborers, excuse me, fruit vendors because they're selling something. It's not their time. Correct. Is that some pretty fine hairs to be split? Okay.

Did you have a question? circumstances. Yeah, I was I was asking in terms of of first amendment rights is if they're on the if they're on the sidewalk and they're not on the private property, then it I would think that the police have a problem with doing anything about that. But it can't compared to being on the private property. It can't be on the sidewalk. There's basically no sidewalk there. It's all the I'm talking about I'm Hamilton. Yeah. They're never there. It's always the sidewalk from there to the building on the right. So that's on private property. All of it 100%. So, so that's an issue whether or not it shade. There's all the trees that

I understand that, but my question was about being on private property, which in theory the police should be able to do something about, but then that's not an issue for us here. Okay. So, that was my question. Well, it is our issue because if the if the applicant's saying that they've sought relief from the city who's denied it to them, now we're hitting them with why aren't you compliant? That's a little lefth hand, right hand stuff. No, it's a federal law. It's Supreme Court case. Like, no. Well, the complaint and that's not one of the items that we're reviewing right now. That's That would be true.

So, let's go back to the Let's go back to Gloria, please, if you could please address the other issues. For example, um the loading zone. So, people are allowed to park in the yellow to load quickly and then leave. Um, I know people abuse it. Contractors think that that's their personal spot. We do call Paige their driver's license. They're going to be towed. Um, but a lot of tenants do tell them they're not allowed to park there and they get yelled at. So then they call a manager to come and tell them that this guy won't move. So then we go out there and it turns into a battle and then they end up finally leaving. But it does take time. Are you open to um clear signage, you know, like striping? So

absolutely. So they know up front that this is what's going to happen if you do park here you Yeah. And we do put cones there sometimes to try and make it so they don't feel like they could just go up. Um but sometimes they run them over or just move them out of the way. Where where are they supposed to go instead? Like the people that are doing that where where should they be going? The loading. Yeah. Well, that typically that is a loading zone. They could be loading but they're not loading. They're parking. So So it's fine if they're like idling and unloading. The problem is the the complete stopping. Yeah. And also not covering their striped, you know, ADA pathways. Yes. It looks like they encroach.

Correct. And so when people trying to get into the store, they're in the way around. If we don't like it, we don't endorse it. We do tell them to move, but um we do get yelled at every day for it. Can I can I ask one more question? So like the storage was the sort of area of most compliance like it and that you heard from the neighbors sort of commenting on it like what is your plan over the next period of time to make that better outside of is it the stuff we heard or like could you talk a little more about that?

So the storage was difficult because we don't order our own stuff comes from corporate so they were just used to onslaught us with all this extra materials um to make sure we're always in stock. So, it took a long time to deplete our um inventory. Um we had to get Atlanta involved, regional merchant managers involved to make sure that we weren't getting certain products. So, we had to go through and scan every item and basically prove why we couldn't have so much um and and speak for this is how much we sell, this is how much we have, I can't have this much. And so, it it takes time. So, then we had to wait for what we did have to sell. um for them to not send us more. So that's why it's taken so long to deplete our inventory.

But but this is this what you're saying right now is precisely why I have so little faith that our collaborative approach will work because when you're being overruled by Atlanta, there is nothing you can say or do to alleviate that. And yet here we all are again talking to the wrong person. What what's the question? Well, how would you have us address this in a in a manner more suitable to a successful outcome if if you're effectively saying you're not the decision maker? Yeah. How do we catch their attention? I guess that's the question. How do we catch the corporation is my answer. So So you're saying you don't have enough room inside for correct. Well, inside

when when there's too much inventory coming in, correct? And usually it's the commodities. It's the big stuff like inside, you know, the the mulch, the soil, the brick, the block, concrete, it's giant. So inside is full. Like there we're busting at the seams inside and then it's still outside. So So has has has Home Depot and other locations have ways in which to deal with that better, like establishing another storage area that's that's covered and closed. Well, they're bigger storage. No, we we all have the same. In other areas, they have they have bigger locations pretty much. I'm not going to Every Home Depot has it in the parking lot.

Um we're not allowed to have it in the parking lot. So that's why we're only limited to that small section in the garden park find the fence. That's where we're allowed to have overflow. And then in the back of the building up against the building, that's all we get. But your your store is the smallest one in the district, right? It's pretty small. It's up. And so the the spreadsheets and the calculus from Atlanta is treating you like you're bigger than you are. And this is part of the systemic problem to update the system and it only saves the numbers that we enter for three months and then we have to do it all over again. Would they like to expand the store by buying the shell gas station? I would love to. [laughter]

Um other questions? Okay. Um, any other questions for her? Um, for for Glory. No, I have I have I I have one question. Yes. Uh, is it possible to study your parking lot in the areas where people are loading and unloading and create a loading zone, restripe the parking areas to create specific loading zones and not allow, you know, through traffic in that zone, so to speak, such that now nobody's blocking the sidewalk. Yeah, they've got to walk across a drive a but at least they've got larger spaces or a larger space to load their trucks and get out of the way.

That would be a great idea to have a loading zone in the front of the parking lot. You're talking about like the first layer of cars, right? Yeah. Or down one aisle closest to where the lumber, right? Where the big rollup door for the lumber where lumber comes out. Yeah. Maybe across there. You restripe that and say this is your loading zone. You park here, you take your cart out there, you load it up, you have your cart return, and then there's no parking in the sidewalk. Yeah, that would be great. And also have a tow truck nearby. Yes, we have the tow truck number on speed.

Well, that sounds like a great plan. You know, I mean, just, you know, you should consider that because that would address quite a few of the issues. Yes, I agree. Um, okay. So, one online. Oh, somebody online. Yes, please. Uh, hi.

Hi. This is Cassandra Permentor. So, I'm actually I am the consultant for Home Depot. So, I am the site development coordinator and I worked directly with Atlanta and the Home Depot legal team and I was the person who processed this application and worked with Gloria um on the entitlement and currently working on the building permit. So, I just wanted to bring some things to light because I think we are kind of missing a bit of the bigger picture here with the conditions of approval. So, the the reason this whole application started is because Home Depot had so many different applications and previous approvals that it was very convoluted and it was hard for Gloria and her team to figure out what was actually allowed at the store and what wasn't because there were so many previous applications. So, this application that we submitted and eventually got through the approval process, this kind of made everything black and white for Home Depot, but when we got the approval, it was noted that it was going to take some time for us to adjust, kind of like Gloria already said, and to get everything back into compliance. I have been working with Stephen since the entitlement approval, working on the building permits so that we can get the striping um accommodated in the front so that we don't have this issue with the storage and things like that. But on top of that, I believe that there were 48 conditions of approval with this application. So, where I understand concerns coming from the city and from the neighbors, I think we're forgetting all of the things that Home Depot did have to take on, I mean, there were things such as trash inserts that needed to get installed in every single drain system. Um, we had to do different signage that was implemented throughout the building and throughout the site. I mean, we had to deal with the cigarette buds, getting rid of the picnic tables. I mean, there was a lot of things and

there has been a lot of movement with the site and I feel like we are just kind of honing in on one topic and I understand that it is an important topic, but we're forgetting about all the other 48 conditions of approval that Home Depot had to comply with. Um, so Gloria's team has done a great job. She has communicated with me multiple times. I've been in contact with Stephen and I know that she is working very hard to make sure that she is as compliant as can be. Um, with the Atlanta stuff, she is 100% correct. Um, we did have to have meetings with Atlanta and talk to them about the merchandising and that we needed to scale back. They are aware of this. They understand and they're working on continuing that moving forward. They understand that she needs to have these storage areas that she can't be overloaded at her site and they're working on scaling that back. But like she said, she needed to get out of her inventory so that she was able to scale back and change the shipments and everything. Um, I will also say that when it comes to the loitering, there is a code in place and I brought this up at the original hearing and Gloria is correct. We there is a law that um Governor Nuome put in place and there is nothing that we can do about day labors. We can ask them to leave. We can call the police. She has called the police before. The police cannot do anything. So that is what we have been told. I have personally been told that as well. Um so unless they're on the city sidewalk, then police can do something. But on our property there there's nothing that we can do. All we can do is ask them to leave and we can call the police and the police have told us not to call them anymore.

Why can't you trespass them? Um there is a I I would have to look up the specific code, but there is a um a law that GA um Governor Nuome passed essentially saying that there if there's somebody that's looking for work that we can't deny them that essentially and that we can't um categorize it as trespassing. I would be happy to look it up. I know I have it in my files because we discussed it previously with the meetings that we've had with the neighbors. um and talked about this topic, but unfortunately our hands are tied with this situation. We've talked about it multiple times.

Okay. What about the um enforcement of the um handicap uh striped area and then coach went into them. Yeah,

that is what we are currently working on with Stephen with the building permit. We have we submitted the building permit as soon as we could after entitlement. We have been working on it this whole time. So I understand that, you know, people think that Home Depot isn't compliant, but we we're going through the process, you know, and there have been comments that have gone back and forth. I have had meetings with Stephen and Fire just to make sure that we completely understand what it is that they're requesting on these plans. But unfortunately, I can't make reviews go faster. Stephen can't make my team move faster updating the plans, but we are working with the city to get this building permit approved so that we can get the striping. I think we're very close. I spoke with Stephen today. Um he reviewed the plans and gave us a couple of comments to change so that we can get this approved. But, you know, we're we're close to the finish line so that we can implement it. But, you know, we have been working on this. We we didn't let it just sit stagnant. We knew that this meeting was coming up, but we also knew that we do want to be in compliance. We don't want this to keep coming up.

Right. Right. Okay. Um, thank you for your testimony. Um, so staff, is there uh I mean, you heard Commissioner Aina's suggestion is great. You know, now you were talking about the aisle like a side aisle to turn into loading zone or we were talking about this the western most of parking in that area where where all the the bunch of parking spaces are designated pro pro parking but right there like so oh okay got it I see it now

but but you know that middle section So it's not a six foot high wall. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's the area you probably least want to have more people over there. Yeah, you want to put it on the staple side. We want it on the other side to try to Okay. Um, so I guess she got more like I could have talked a lot more.

No, no, because because we were asking her questions. You know, if we asked you questions, you could have gone over to But when we ask her questions, that doesn't that's not included in what if I don't what if I don't agree with I'm sorry that that's our procedure. So Okay. So you guys have to agree with her. No, we're saying that we're deliberating. Um, you want to keep the public hearing open or close? No, I would like to close it because we're we don't have any other Well, we don't have If you've spoken, then you've gotten your chance to speak. If there if there's other people who who okay haven't spoken and you get to speak

no. Thank you. Closing public hearing. Um, okay. So what does staff want from us?

I'll just give you a broad perspective and Stephen give you details. Um so so I just give you my perspective on some of the statements as community development director. the the history of Home Depot has been long with the city and you know my understanding listening to neighbors complaints for many years when I came here and working with Randy on code enforcement issues and the planners the conditions prior to earlier here very vague loose uh easy to be in violation and there were obviously operational issues on the um deliveries and the sides with the neighbors that were causing major issues and just to go back to the approval a lot of that was intended to do two things. Um, one was to address the pain points and and get the deliveries and out of that area which you've heard from the neighbors. Two, obviously, you know, my perspective and you can always always ask Home Depot and or folks to it's a small site. If you look at Home Depot, a lot of these sites are huge. Uh, thing with Campbell, we're just not a big city. and Home Depot like many of our operations is a a large operation into a small site. So these issues just constantly come up on this site, my observation, because they're just not the land um available. So going back to the approval, the intent was to designate areas away from the neighbors. There's a new storage area over by Salmar that they've been using and to push the areas away where they could at least deal with the overflow issues and the stacking issues that just were not impacting. Uh my broad perspective again working with Randy and the code enforcement officers. Number one, are there life safety issues on the property? If there are, that's immediate issue and we would issue code enforcement fines if they have to address it. Uh and number two, what is the extent of of complaints we're getting from neighbors? That's what drove this. And in my constant

conver conversations with Randy and Stephen, uh I appreciate the neighbors being here, but the number of complaints we've gotten has gone down a lot. Six months more appreciate to hear if there are issues, but I know we've only received one complaint. And two, the life safety issues generally have been cleaned up. I do know uh the next step for staff working with Home Depot really is the storage and the stenciling. And I think the underlying tone of the recommendation from staff is to use the next six months to to work with Home Depot, hold their feet to the fire, to get the the tools in place, i.e. the stenciling, if it's bullards, if it's marking to make sure them and their staff know where and where not to put the materials um that's required. So I think, you know, our our intent is to bring light to everything today. Um I if you looked at where it was a year ago versus now I you know observation major progress but I still think there's areas to be addressed and we want to use the next six months to get get to that point.

So as far as input from commission that's that's what I'm asking you know what what you know what other input do you want from us? Yeah, I mean the the action for you today is to receive the report uh on compliance uh formally. Uh if you believe there's gross negligence or compliance, you you could recommend uh go to council for a compliance hearing. Uh absent that and broadly, if you think uh I think a lot of it is Home Depot hearing from you, what are areas that are important you hearing from the neighbors? Uh if there's areas you've heard today that you think just need to be focused on in six months um you will focus on those areas as they come back. I just put those record.

Can I ask a question about what your you've got two things that your recommendations? One of them is to whether we recommend to the council to revoke or modify the previously approved permit. Okay. So um we're talking about a permit to operate. storage. Well, I'm asking

it's it's the entirety of Home Depot's operations is currently now operating under that modified PD permit. So, yes, the Home Depot's entitlement on the property, meaning all all aspects of their operation, including even arguably the buildings in the for storage and display. and and and modify the permit. So that revoking would be they would you're telling me a revoking would shut them would shut them down. Hearing can serve as a way of modifying an entitlement. It's generally as the wording implies it's a forceful action the city that's generally not at the discretion of the applicant is applying for it. the city would be forcibly taken forward as a revocation hearing and could modify and then amend the conditions of approval on a project through a re revocation hearing.

Such as such as if there was a strong sentiment by the planning commission tonight that some condition of approval or operational hour needed to be changed from seven on a Sunday. That is something that could be forwarded as a re as a recommendation to the council that would be conducted as a as a formal recommendation by the planning commission to hold a revocation hearing just to amend that one hour for instance. Okay. And and whatever we do tonight, it's going to the council anyway, right? Th

this would not go forward to the council. So this is just a six months compliance review. This is a check-in with the planning commission. There will be the 12-month check-in in the spring 2026 time frame. So, as uh uh Director Eastwood had been mentioning a moment ago, if there are items that the planning commission thinks that are warranting or they'd like to have the operator to focus on so when this item does return back in that six months, they could be put on notice and let them know these are the areas of concern and what we're hearing from the residents and what we've observed on the site, these are our priorities. They that can be made known much more clearly. and working with their CSG consultant team, we could also have them try to focus on those issues for compliance as well for that remaining 14 now I think 12 inspections.

Okay. Well, I mean uh do we want to do a um like a drop hole as to I have a question. Yes. Beyond wagging our finger, which is kind of what it seems like residents feel like we're doing, which is doing nothing, and going nuclear, what kind of tools and steps do we have in between on the spectrum to maybe push them along a little bit faster?

There are tools within the city's municipal code like that had been mentioned earlier. The city does have the ability to impose fines or citations. I don't know to what I mean if we're finding out there to be a condition of approval that's in violation. I I candidly it could be directed to our code enforcement officer to exercise. We've sent notices of intent to site to Home Depot over a number of these issues. We could just issue a citation. That'd be a monetary fine of I believe $1,000 which would be issued to Home Depot and you could find them for any number of the violations that have been articulated tonight or direct our staff to consider doing so and then absent that you really only have the option of forwarding a recommendation to council tonight. Can I could I ask the staff I don't know if any of you given your opinion you want to give your opinion about whether or not we should continue the on the on the route that we're taking uh over the next six months you feel that there has been significant progress and that more progress will be made or

so to here let me jump so so to clarify plan commission doesn't have the power to site right to say that you can't sit here at the dis and put out thousand dollar funds. [laughter]

I can as a community development director uh and you know if you if you want to put in the record that you believe there's evidence of of violation of course we take that under consideration [clears throat] tool but I just want to make clear you can't sit here tonight and issue a thousand ticket. Uh I think I I think I put clear on the record where where staff is. So I I think there's work to be done. We don't think at this point it warrants uh revocation modification hearing. I do think uh talking to staff um on the conditions that you likely will see in six months a recommendation to modify some there's there are some outstanding things that need need to get cleaned up and that's just talking to Stephen and Randy on clarifying where things are are stored and making sure it's a bit more clear for staff. So I would not be surprised we're back in six months. there's there's some actions to actually maybe tighten the conditions, make it maybe a bit more clear. But again, from staff standpoint tonight, I I think again there's been major progress, still some to be done. I don't think it warrants a revocation hearing. You're an independent body. You can make your own decision based on the evidence testimony. You have the right to do so separately.

Go ahead. Thanks. Thanks for that. Uh and so we can give recommendations to the council and can we also give recommendations to the staff or is that of course. Yeah. Okay. So so for for me my for our spraw polling ideas. I would vote to do a revocation hearing. I would say they've done great work but it's too little too late. And I would simultaneously issue a second recommendation to staff to start tomorrow morning with a $1,000 fi and see if you can change our minds in six months. That's what I would do.

Sorry. Revocation hearing like for what? That close but no cigar is not going to get them where they need to be.

That's not specific enough. like what what exactly would I say? Oh yeah, what I didn't want much time about that, but I would I would specifically I [clears throat] would specifically go with what I perceive is the under um disclosed and described health and safety issue of that parking lot. It is dangerous for all the reasons that are touched on with the various obligations that they have, but it's not really tied together. So that would be what I would I would focus on. Another one that's a health and safety fire. I mean, we had this Home Depot burned to the ground in 45 minutes in San Jose what a year and a half ago. The whole place is a powder keg. So, the fact we got the, you know, the outside storage cleaned up and these, I mean, it's great, but geez, I mean, you are playing with a real hazard to our community, but we need Home Depot. We need these places, but this is not the kind of business where you can't be compliant. That's that's the specific recommendation I would

Sorry. Are you saying that there are health and safety issues that you worry that the Home Depot here is going to burn down? For sure. It's a fire hazard, especially when they're storing stuff against their property lines. I mean, they got rid of it now, but this went on for years.

Well, to me, the fact that they have cleaned it up tells me that they have gotten at least part of our message. Yeah. Is it enough? No. They need to do more. they need to prove to us that they hear us, you know. Um, now I personally would not be supporting starting a revocation hearing because I think it's a little too harsh, but in six months if we hear the same thing, then I will support that.

And my feelings, I mean, I I'm going to be the lone vote on this. I I I don't feel bad about it. No, no, actually to be honest with you, you know, you changed my mind that, you know, maybe in six months I still wouldn't have, but now I would because I got to hear from the community members. I got to hear specific items and and I visit that Home Depot, you know. So, I see things I probably incidents, but maybe not, you know. Today, I drove through it and I saw the neighbors, you know, all that. Anyway, um Okay. Uh so um

I have a different proposal. Go ahead. Uh what I heard today was storage not only in the report was the number one thing. I mean that's the one I heard the most clearly from you all is being problematic. So uh my recommendation would be I I would I would like I like Maryann's suggestion like especially on code enforcement. I would love to know is somebody gonna show up for the duration of time to like make sure you know they look at that lot and see if we do the striping and then you stare at it for 4 hours like we're good like in the in the space in front. So like if we're going to do the weekly visits they're the duration that we would be detecting those like that that's something I would like. Um I would also recommend that storage if we keep seeing these we do the fine. I don't know if that's a weekly thing. I don't know exactly what that looks like, but I would recommend. It's a relatively small amount of money, but I would hope that President maybe helps send a message to Home Depot, too, or Home Depot corporate that's not going to bankrupt the store, but that could be a message to them that like this is non-trivial. So, I would recommend specifically on storage over the next six months, if we continue to see violations, the code enforcement does issue citations for fines. Um, but I would not at this point do a revocation hearing, but I would step that up specifically as the issue that seems to be the most problematic and not just wait six months to get it done yet. So, that's how I would make a recommendation. But other ideas, Senator, welcome.

Anybody agrees with what vice chair?

Well, I mean, I think I agree with a lot of what's been said. I think the things I'm taking away from this meeting tonight is that the first thing we need to do is eliminate any neighborhood impact from Home Depot on the neighborhood. Uh that's first and foremost. Whether that includes the loading zone, idling trucks, storage, I think that's uh that's the big primary concern that I'm hearing tonight. And you know, like people say, you can say all you anything you want. It's what what's the deed after what's the action? And I think that see Cory's phrase, the nuclear option won't work for anybody. But I think that we need to make physical changes to that parking area such that people can get in and out of the store. There's not a lot of impact to the neighborhood and that we don't have this meeting in six months as everybody's concerned about. Nothing's changed. you know, we're we we all have a vested interest in Home Depot. They have a vested interest in the city of Campbell. So, uh, short of revoking their use permit, which we're not going to do, we have to find a a vehicle to hold it free to the fires.

Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.

Okay. So um uh you know I I have to put aside what's happened in the previous decades. It's like what's happening now. Okay. Whatever's gone on in the past is in the past. Um this is in front of the city now. There's action that has been taken and and there are plans to do further action. So I think what staff's recommendation is is to continue this further hopefully deal do what has been proposed in terms of what's remaining. You know you know my personal uh my personal take on Home Depot and I I don't live around the corner so I I understand people who live nearby is a problem. It it's not the world's best location for Home Depot. Okay. This is not where a Home Depot should be. But sometime 30 years ago, the city decided we needed some big boxes. And guess what? They're all within about a oneb block area. Okay? There's there's Home Depot and [clears throat] Staples and Kohl's and and and uh what used to be F was Fries. And and so that's where they are. and and most most Home Depot or Lowe's are in big commercial shopping centers where there isn't a neighborhood that you can see it. It's in the distance, you know, there it's it's surrounded by open space. So, it it it by nature has a problem with being there. Okay. So, the best we can do is not ignore the problems and and try to do what we're doing. It seems to me that the city is taking action. Stephen is in contact not only with the local manager but with regional person. Um there are there are plans in place to rectify a number of things. A number of things have been

rectified. There was a lot of green there was a lot of re green boxes that were checked off. They weren't all checked off green, but it looks to me like there's been progress. So, I believe that we need to continue this and and give them a few, you know, do it do it and and come back in six months. Uh, you know, a thousand fine, you know, or whatever it it's, you know, Home Depot is is whatever a $50 billion dollar company. They're not a thousand dollar fine isn't going to mean anything to them. It's not going to move, in my opinion. It's not going to make a difference.

Can I ask you a question? I'm sorry to cut you. I can ask a question. In six months, you know, I'd like to do a straw poll. Are you willing to um uh vote for the revocation hearing? I'm not willing to vote for the revocation of home closing down. No, no, no. It it is. Okay. Revocation hearing isn't closing down. Means changing of the terms like for example lowering the hours. I would consider adjustment a modification to the permit. So that's that would make some sense to fix certain things. Modification of the hours doesn't change the delivery guy uh on the sidewalk.

No, no, it it will because it catches their attention and they will they will enforce the rules better. you know, if there's some sensible modifications that make sense that would that we believe would make a difference in how Home Depot deals with this. Yeah, I'd be open to that. But, you know, uh but we have to understand that, you know, that that by nature that big of an operation is has its problems that some little storefront in downtown Campbell doesn't have. Okay. Then it's a difficult process to make things better,

right? And we're trying to address that because they're so big. Um, uh, Commissioner Majeski, if you were to in six months were to be faced with the same situation, you would vote for revocation here.

Well, I like to add my thoughts as everyone else had a chance. But, um, my main concern that I've heard tonight is the there is still some storage periodically in the fire lane. And, you know, I don't think there I mean, maybe they will, but I don't I don't know what's going to happen, but I think that should be kind of a zero tolerance because that is a fire hazard. It's an issue that's safe. That's a safety issue. I don't see like having an extra foot of plants in this the sidewalk. I don't hear about people being hit by a car in front of of the Home Depot all the every day. So, yes, it's an issue. Technically, they are breaking the letter of the law. Let's be neighborly. I get they've had, you know, left a bad taste in you guys mouth and they've really caused issues. I think they've cleaned up Iraq a lot. Um, that's my one thing is the fire lane has to be clear.

And if the fire lane in six months to come back and there's haven't been clear, then would you vote for I think we should I don't think we need to shut down Home Depot forever for all time. I think we should do something to address. Yes, I've said my piece. We know your position. Um, Commissioner Bookbinder,

I was initially inclined to agree with staff mostly. Um, I can it's hard to determine whether people are upset at egregious actions by Home Depot or they are in proximity to a Home Depot is have some impact on them. But at the same time, obstructing the fire lane is like we have building health and safety standards for that reason. I don't think that's sort of a discretionary thing. Um, but again, I I appreciate staff saying we're not all the way through the review process. At the same time, if this home workers genuinely seem to be having a hard time complying with at least some aspects of this, I think it's important to distinguish between this is cosmetic or inconvenient versus this is a safety issue. Um, I don't have the context to make that kind of determination here, but I think that's what staff is is doing. And I think there like I believe that if there it was an ongoing safety hazard, this would not be presented to us as come back after the next 14 uh inspections and we'll we'll see.

So I'm I'm not inclined to do anything now, but like I think there's two two issues here. Is it are they an immediate hazard and are they not complying with their uh use policies? So So my question was if it was health and safety it was something important you you get the report in six months are you willing to vote for the so-called revocation if it was or at least a modification or a fine or some kind of enforcement action? Right. That's that's what I'm referring to when I say revocation. Yeah. Commissioner,

I'm bound to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens. So, yeah. you know and I think the vice chair I think you you actually started a conversation is some things are um some things are important like health and safety and um and where I'm going with this is that um I think I think our recommendation to city would be let's give it six months like you guys said but in six months revocation hearing should be an absolute option you know just so they know that like a you know I guess I would say like a problem child you know you can't

can we be clear bad revocation is a word that has a meaning said it doesn't necessarily well it says revocation or modification modification is one thing revocation means you pull the permit but the revocation hearing could be a modification to the I just want to be clear on that terminology that's what they told Yeah, but in their but in their opinions they they use the term revocation or modification. Anyway, and if I may, the code does have a defined process which is a revocation. We do separately have a modification process for many permits in the city

historically and I'll give an examp which had had gone through a revocation hearing. It didn't didn't mean at the end of the day that the permit was revoked. It meant that it was kind of a compliance check and review process by which then the decision-making body imposed new and refined conditions of approval and or exacted additional fines or levied more requirements as part of the the business. But that was the tool that was the mechanism the city. I'm also at a little bit with the chair asking us to make some kind of commitment of what we're going to do in six months. I don't want to make a commitment of what I'm going to do in six months. But I don't think he did. I think he said, "Are you said that?" Well, but you know,

that's what I It's to to to poll us for what I'm what we're going to do in six months. I don't think is really change your mind then. You just say, "Well, that's I don't I don't personally think it's appropriate." Yeah. Okay. Okay. I agree. Well, I agree. It's a hypothetical and I think the thing we should decide is are we just [clears throat] going with the recommended action or are we doing I suggested a slight modification which is that we suggest code enforcement does issue fines for storage or commissioner suggested something more aggressive if you still want to keep that on the table. I'd vote that I'd go with you guys with it.

Okay, good. But I know you're not doing it. Well, I'm just Those are the three that we've presented. I think that the final thing we should do here is pick which thing that we're recommending and and I I'm not sure where we're at.

Let me just jump in. So, formally, you have two actions. One, received a report. You basically done that, not to anything else. Two, if you I'll use your term nuclear auction, you have the right to refer to the city council. And the term is revocation modification hearings is typically used. You can revoke or modify the code. Those are very typical tools used through the apps. Three is is sort of in the gray and I think you've already done it which is um it's not a formal action but there are things you observed that need to be tracked and if you in your own opinion you think the city should find um put those in the record. So that's not a formal action. I think I've taken notes. We've heard from the commission. you're more than enable to put more in the record but basically it's accept report what you've done the only action before you is if you wanted to refer something to council at this point I will say in six months um it's a discretion of the commission what you want to do at that point you obviously six months will have the same rights as you have now both receive a report and that time if you want to refer the council foration modification hearing that

are we voting on anything doesn't sound like No. Okay. Yeah. The only vote you would take it's on your own valition if you want to refer this to council as we discussed and that you're just accepting the report. Does Okay. So I'm open to a motion and then we get to vote on that motion. Do we want to refer this to city council? Not but we a second then we could do a recommendation to staff. Yeah. Yeah. We can we can definitely recommend to staff for example like the fine and the um and what was the second one you said you said the fine and then what was it

it's that storage is the issue and we recommend uh citations with fines on on future incidents if they they see issues it's just storage it's the loading it's also the loading you know but the storage is the health and safety the other one is more of a inconvenience well loading too because they park in a fire lane and then you can't, you know, escape. Yeah. All right. Uh, we're done. I think so. Okay. Thank you for that. I'm going to move on to the next item. Thank you. Thank you.

Five minutes break. Sure. Do you need five minutes break? Sure. Let's do a quick five minutes. Okay. I'm old.

five minutes on a 10-minut break. Okay, thank you. Okay, uh now we are uh getting into the new business portion of our agenda. Uh the first item is the 2026 meeting schedule. Um so um would you like to show us the schedule and we take a vote? Um I don't have it. It's self-evident. It's in the packet. Uh where if we need we can bring it up on the screen. U I'm sorry. If there's an error then please uh read it out and see if we can correct it. July 7th.

They have July 7th, which is first Tuesday. It should be July 14th and July 12th. Amend that. All right. Any other uh observations or recommendations on amendments? Okay. Any anybody else? No. No. Oh, good. Okay. So let's do a let's do a voice vote. Uh all those in favor of the schedule with the correction as was pointed out say I I.

All those again say no. Okay. Eyes have it. So that's item five. Item six is the election of the 2026 chair and vice chair. So I suggest we nominate the chair and then go through that vote and then we we can we do both? Can we do both at the same time? Both at the same time. I have something to interject if I may. Okay. Go ahead, please.

I notified Rob Eastwood earlier today that I'll be stepping down um as soon as a replacement is found for my position. Um I'll keep attending meetings to avoid creating issues with the quorum as much as I'm able to. um going forward. Okay. Well, thank you. Satis um Okay. So, with that, um uh that's why I suggest that we go through the chair first and then through vice chair. Is everybody okay with that? Okay. So, is there a nomination for chair for 2026?

I Davis fails. Wonderful. So, we have a we have a nomination. Do you accept the nomination? I do. Thank you very much. Wonderful. Um, let's I second it. Is there any other nominations? Seeing none, we have a second a voice vote. All those for Commissioner Davis Fields for to be the next chair. I. All those against? None. So, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Um, now let's do the vice chair. Um, uh, Do I hear nomination for vice chair? And this vice chair by the way would be the first seat on the SARC.

Who's the current second seat on sec? So, so my suggestion was maybe vice chair, maybe commissioner uh Gary Akolina because he's an architect and he's been to many stocks before so he can hit the ground running and second chair I was going to suggest commissioner only um having being the only two members who haven't been on s okay we we we got to do the we got to do the vice chair of the commission first okay so vice chair you know so one nomination is for I Commissioner Aolino, is there is there another nomination?

Well, I just want to ask if if if we st we stick to tenure or not, or is it is it just open uh the or to weigh in ordinance and bylaws, they only speak to nominating. I just say so beyond that, there's just been your practice and your practice has been to allow new commissioners to go through. So it's usually the second SARC seat to the vice chair to the chair and if all commissioners are on three you go back and rotate again. But that has been your practice. There's no hard to rules.

The other possibility is if let's say commissioner only if he's recommended for second seat and he says he's not ready right now then I think then we can that 10 year thing can come in. But I think maybe um commissioners who haven't had opportunities should have the first I was just I was just asking if if if there's just just a if there's a requirement or not. So let's let's do a voice vote for commissioner G and and and you said you do accept the nomination. Accept the nomination. Wonderful. So um all those in favor of I'll second the nomination. Second nomination. Thank you. All those in favor of commissioner Gary Aolina as the vice chair

I. All those against? None. So congratulations. Thank you. So you are now also the first seat on the S. So So technically uh and normally that's technically the new chair supreme powers on appointing uh the two SRC members. In practice, as long as I've been here, the vice chair has been the uh the first seat, but uh but per the bylaws and per the ordinance is the the incoming chair has the discretion to select two members for Matt, you should turn to Gav. That's what he was after the whole time.

Oh, no. Put your thumb right there in the It's actually effective as of [laughter] January, right? It is. It is defective as of January. But but being my favorite vice chair, you know, [laughter] all of them, he just wants to keep a seat. Yeah. Um well, I did go back and check and that is how it seems like we've done it is is give new folks an opportunity. So, uh, with that in mind, for the two SARKC members, I would, uh, offer to my vice chair, uh, Aqualina, and if you're up for it, I offer you the second chair.

Yeah. But again, don't if you don't want to do you don't feel like you're obligated because he he went first on that. If you'd rather it be someone else, I don't mind it. That's a precedent we have and Okay. I mean, I'm flattered. Honored. Yeah. So, if you're if you're up for it. Yeah. Well, the rest of us don't really want it. [laughter] Is that is that the thing? Oh, is that what's going on? What exactly are you roping me into? [laughter] It's a it's an hour before the meeting. Uh it it is starting to meet more and more sporadically. I think we probably had eight of them. Yeah. Um so just the the circ meeting before this meeting was cancelled. Yeah.

And it's usually on the same night just on our right. I got it. Okay. Thanks. So all those uh in favor of commissioners Aqualina and Ali for SARC I I yeah I vote too seems anyone opposed. Okay. Well I think we we have it. I'll take this back. All right. [laughter] Okay. Take us all.

So yeah take us all. Exact. Thank you. um appointment of SARC members which we just went through that was number seven. Um number eight planning commissioner subcommittee reports. So we have had a a non um functioning or like I guess on hold subcommittee on land use and in my conversation with commission with the director there might be like a time limit constraint on how long the subcommittee can stay. So the I guess the decision would be to um terminate that subcommittee you know as of today and then next year see if we want to start that subcommittee you know with a little bit more sharper focus you know than the big big focus that we had before

then you can ensure it's an ad hoc if it's appropriate that's an ad hoc subcommittee versus standing subcommittee excellent okay so so I I think this one was ad hoc if I'm not mistaken but I don't remember um so is that okay does you know so but do do we need a vote to disband the subcommittee or no not an ad hoc okay it was your subcommittee it was my well it was me and another commissioner who's no longer with us so that's why still alive but right [laughter] no longer with us in this room I can tell you you're gonna in [laughter] trouble. Last chance.

Yes. Recall the vote. Okay. Um, finally, item number nine, report of the community development director.

Well, it's 10:47 tonight. Uh, I'll just say, uh, last week at just a quick item. Last week at council, uh, council adopted, uh, a new interim ordinance extending provisions we have for SP450. It's a bill that kind of modified SP9 and ADUs. And the theme is um and Campbell's actually gone ahead ahead on a lot of state laws and put in interm ordinances. Uh we're still working with limited staff to try and bring you an omnibus miscellaneous ordinance. Uh we're threatening and hopeful to bring that to you next year. It's a cleanup of all these new state laws. But in the interim, we just continue to use these in our system at least has something in place we can I have nothing to report beyond that. Uh

absent you meeting uh the the week of uh Christmas, this be your last hearing. So So on the a on the agenda, it says adjourned to the meeting of December 23rd at 7 p.m. Has that meeting been cancelled? That meeting never was. I don't think it was a part of the So there is no meeting. So So this is an asking. Yeah. Yes. Rob, quick question. If we know somebody who would like to apply to replace um profession,

absolutely reach out to our city clerk. Uh have problems getting that information, you can have him contact me and I can email.

Uh I have a couple of things I'd like to before you adjourn. So [clears throat] you had offered uh this is a reminder. You probably don't need to be reminded, but you you had offered we we had talked about park fees and it's not under our purview, but you offered to have a presentation to us to tell us to inform us and educate us on park fees. And I'd also like to suggest um I personally would be interested in learning more about the the affordable housing way in which we with the third party do things. Uh I forget who the new third party is, but that would be I would find that interesting since I I don't really understand how we manage that program of affordable housing in the city. And I don't know if other commissioners would be interested in that too. Um to because you know it it you know we deal with affordable housing but we don't know how it actually gets processed.

If I can help to articulate let me know if I have it wrong. Uh absolutely on our work plan is to come to you probably in the February time frame with explanation how our fees work so you're informed basics on that. And two I I'm assuming commissioner you're referring to the below market rate program. Yeah below market rate. Okay. Yeah, we we have of course our housing manager, Eloisa, and we have a a contracted manager that manages that program, but we could give you a study session on how that works. That'd be nice. Okay. With uh just quick I I was the reason I was distracted. I would adjourn to January 13th, your next January 13th. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you.

Have a great happy holidays. See you before that and happy new year. Oh, happy.