County Council - Regular Meeting

Everybody see the agenda?

Do we have any changes? Parks and Recreation had an appointment by the council that has passed away, and we need to make an interim appointment on that.

Oh, that's right. Are we going to solicit inquiries? Yeah.

I'm sure. Is that what we think? Well, let's talk about it when we get there. Let's talk about it when we get there.

Okay. John Ketter passed away.

I have another point. I'd like to just briefly discuss the coroner's vehicle, what direction we want to give that to go.

Anybody else have any additions? Motion to approve the agenda?

I make a motion to approve today's agenda.

No second. Motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? We have minutes from our last work session and our last regular meeting. Anybody have a chance to look at those? From... June 15th and July 9th.

June 15th, but I guess I'm after July 9th, so I'm not voting that one.

Motion to approve. Second. No, I asked you for the motion. I'll second it. Motion to second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Council bill number seven, the stipend policy. We have an amendment to that for second reading.

Last meeting we made a motion to approve the first reading.

I am not going to read the entire ordinance again, but I will read the changes. There were some questions about the effective date and a reference to Section 5 instead of Section 6. So the change that was made was made to Section 3, 3.2, where it referenced, let me read this sentence. Any stipend currently being paid for any county employee or county official that is not grounded in the express statutory requirement or authorization shall be discontinued, subject to the transition provisions set forth in Section, it did say five, now it refers to section six of this ordinance, which is the correct reference point. We had concerns over how ending stipends would have ended the stipends that we currently have for the law enforcement of the additional revenue that they're getting to cover the extra cost of their salaries. Added in Section 5 was Paragraph 5.6 and 5.7, which read, Brown County Council may approve the payment of incentives to county employees at the Brown County Law Enforcement Center for special training or services, including but not limited to field training officer incentive, data master certification incentives. Such incentives shall be identified by the sheriff and appropriated in the annual budget. Nothing in this ordinance shall prohibit the payment of incentives if approved. 5.7. The Brown County Council may approve the payment of allowances to county employees of the Brown County Law Enforcement Center, including but not limited to a uniform allowance or physical fitness allowance. Such allowances shall be identified by the sheriff and appropriated in the annual budget. Nothing in this ordinance shall prohibit the payment of allowances if approved in the annual budget. Those are all of the amendments to council bill number seven, which is ordinance number 2026-07-20-000. So what I need is a motion to approve the ordinance as amended on second reading. So moved. I'll second it. We have a motion and a second to approve council bill number seven, ordinance number 202607-20-000. All in favor? Aye. Aye. We'll do a roll call on that.

Gary?

Yes. Scott? Yes.

Judy? Yeah.

Aaron? Yes. Patrick? Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. All right. Brown County Clerk, for the $50,000 additional appropriation for election board legal fees, do you have anything else to add to that over what we discussed in our work session?

Just the... special request that Jim had asked for. All of the parties involved respectfully declined.

What does that mean?

Special meeting that Jim had requested over the money being spent on legal fees. He wanted our attorney to come to that meeting, and our legal counsel, along with the two attorneys that sit on my election board, said we respectfully decline.

Because there's litigation in action? There's that, and... Can you talk a little louder?

Can you come to the mic?

Because it's still in litigation and because they just did not feel that it was necessary that it, in their words, would be tasteless.

So I'm not clear what we're declining because I didn't hear the first part.

Jim had asked for a special meeting for counsel and have our legal representation come and talk to you folks.

Which makes sense. With litigation ongoing, it makes sense for them not to.

So that's the only thing I have to add.

Okay. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Julie, did we actually get that drafted? I didn't see anything come in from Susan on that.

Her money?

Yeah. Yeah.

We have been.

I think I do have a copy of that. We didn't have one in the envelope.

my folder to see if Susan created anything.

Okay. We had, I think we just had Perlita's written request.

Pretty much, yeah. Okay. And then it was sent off to the paper for advertising. I don't, I do not believe that Susan made any kind of ordinance for it.

Okay. You said Susan is not online?

No.

No.

Okay. That's not my point. we approve that without you can approve it but you have to sign it at the next meeting okay all right i'll take a motion then to approve the clerk's request for fifty thousand dollars for the election board to cover legal expenses so the motion is second somewhere between Jim and Patrick. I'll second. I'll first. You second. Okay. All right. All in favor? Aye. Do we all call on that?

Thank you.

Gary?

Yes.

Judy? Yes. Scott? Yes. Darren?

Yes. Patrick? Yes. Joe? Yes. Jim? Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

A new business, we have an introduction from Audie from the Purdue Regional Operations, as a new Purdue Regional Operations Leader.

Yes, it is a mouthful. Good evening, Council. My name is Audie. I am with Purdue Extension. I actually was a health educator in, I currently live in Bloomington. So I was a health educator in Monroe County. I've been with Extension for about a couple of years, almost five years. I'm sure you may have heard that Purdue Extension is going through a transformation, so they're restructuring and so one of the new positions they created is called the Regional Operations Leader, ROL for short. Essentially our role is to do a lot more of the admin supportive roles so that educators can focus on serving their community roles. So I'll be here to present the budget I'll be like a main communications person for Brown County. So again, the educators can focus on just doing programming and serving the community. So I'll take on more of the admin role. So as can introduce myself. Also, we wanted to give a different report on how Extension has been doing. We recently had our fair, as you all know, and it went pretty well. So we had a report on how our fair went that I wanted to pass on to the councilmen and directors. It's just a summary on how our fair went. My kids did really well. We have a lot of good team, good support from our volunteers, families, et cetera. So we just wanted to, again, thank Council for the continual support of Extension and we will continue to do great work. But again, just came here to introduce myself. If you have any questions for me or about anything or about the transformation, I'm happy to answer them now or at any point.

Had a good time. I'm just curious for the council's benefit, if you could explain Purdue's role, 4-H, or the Extension role in comparison to the 4-H board's role. There's kind of two things happening there. I think it'd be helpful to explain that if you could.

Yes, thank you. Good question. So Extension, we are a land-grant university. So every state has what they call a land-grant university, LGU. And essentially our role is to provide education throughout the state. It really started as like agriculture education, but has since expanded. So our focus is community development, 4-H youth development, health and human sciences, which is just health programming, and then agriculture and natural resource education. So we have something called contractual services with our county, and that just essentially says that the county gives us support financially. We provide an office. county staff, and we in turn provide education. So every county has a Purdue Extension and county relation with one another. So that's what Extension essentially does. We do a lot of programming in our county. With the new restructuring, we're doing regional models, so we'll have educators who are doing programming in various regions. So some of you covered Brown County, Monroe County, Morgan County, just go around. Instead of having one educator in one county, we'll just be covering multiple counties. That's a lot of our update transformation. The 4-H board, every county's different. Some counties have just a fair board, and some are 4-H fair board. Essentially, it's just fair board that has a connection with the extension office. So everything they do really is more to support and promote and work along with 4-H versus being its own entity. So they just work a lot more with us, essentially. They help to support financially in other ways, help to support the 4-H community, The 4-H group, as compared to other fair boards that aren't affiliated with 4-H, they're just their own entity. So it's just more of a regular fair board that just works closely and more alongside with Extension. Did that answer your question a little bit? If anything 4-H related, we would be the ones that you would talk to.

Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Actually, sorry, something else just popped in. So with the regional restructuring, are there any financial changes as we go into the budget session? If you were staffed locally, I assume you're dividing time, is there a change to the request? Or is it the same?

Yeah, good question. So there will be a change. There will be an increase in our ask that we usually have in the past. The benefit of the ask, it is larger but encompasses more. So currently every, there are different line items for like mileage, for professional development. There are different line items that help to support the staff. So with our new number, it is larger but encompasses everything. So it won't be, it will cover mileage, professional development, program supplies, anything for the educators will be in that larger amount. So it is larger, but it encompasses more. So you don't have to worry about paying my live professional development or program fees. So it will be a larger ask when I come back next week to the budget hearing. Every county will have a local 4-H staff. So it will be a local 4-H staff that will be here. The other educators will be coming in to provide services. So the contractual services, instead of being per educator, it's just a service-based model. And so the same programming, education, I mean programming services will still be provided, you just won't have like a physical person in the, we will have somebody physical, but it won't be like all three educators like we have in the past. So we will have an educator, it just will be, it won't be, there'll be one 4-H educator, but there won't be like a station health and agriculture education like we had in the past. Like I said, since it's a regional model, they will still get those services, but they'll be in and out of Brown County. So the same amount of services is still being provided. Thank you. To answer your question, are there any more follow-ups on that? I'll give you one next week at the budget hearing, but that's just a little, I guess a little preview of our ask for next week. Thank you. Thank you.

Next up we have Kyle Myers and Adrian O'Shea from the Helmsburg Regional Sewer District. I'll save an introduction from you and I'll let you guys just open it up with what you're here for.

Okay. Good evening. My name is Adrian O'Shea. I am the president of the Helmsburg Regional Sewer District. And for full transparency, I'm also the president of the Helmsburg Community Development Corporation. Just letting you guys know that. But we are coming to you guys for some help. As some of you guys may know, we are in the process of getting a new plant built out there in Helmsburg. And our bidding for this project came in about $1.7 million over budget. So we've had to go back to the drawing board, pull some things out of that bid, and try to do what we can to try to get this within budget for our next bidding, which should happen in the next few weeks. And part of that was we just raised rates from $92.50 to $118 for our customers. That was hard to swallow as it is. But that $118... included 10 customers that we were trying to hook on with this project as well. And so one way for us to try to bring some or get this project to the finish line is to try and get those 10 people connected up. That way our sewer rates, that's what we based this on was to have the 10 additional customers. Without that, we potentially have to go back and look at raising our rates yet again. And I really don't want to do that. This is the first month that people are going to be paying that bill. So we thought we would come ask. We need to see if we can cover $175,000. Now, initially, you guys can probably guess I brought up the Hattlesburg because we thought the stock factory money is out there. I know that's a controversial thing, but we did go talk to How's your community development we brought this to them and as I said president of that it's not forcing that on We're just bringing these topics up and if that were one of the avenues if it's possible like if the community supported that Votes they did say yes, so that is one reason that we thought we'd come to you guys Sock factory might be great, but if not I don't care where it comes from we need a lifeline if we can't get these 10 customers in we may have to raise rates again and Don't want to do that. And we can get, those people have been waiting now for a while. So we would really like to see the expansion happen here.

You have full support of all 10 of those customers, correct? They want to be added?

Yeah. In fact, all 10 have actually already signed easements with us. The sewer mains are already being extended. Actually, a local contractor did the work. And I just talked to him even this last week. The mains are in. He's got a bit of cleanup work and stuff to do to it, but they're there. They're ready for us to start putting these customers on too. And I will note, like Adrian said, not only do we have the support, there's one of them that's, or two of them that are brand new construction that are kind of waiting on us to be able to say, yeah, we can hook this on when you're ready before they can break ground on their homes. And then I've got a few others that are actually in desperate need of it because they're set to system spin and failure for quite some time. So those ones in particular following up with me repeatedly saying, where are we at? Where are we at? We really need this.

Where was that expansion at?

We extended our main south along Helmsburg Road under Bean Blossom Creek to serve, I believe it's four or five homes to the south there along Helmsburg Road, and then we extended north from, right now the last customer we have to the north on Helmsburg School Road is the school itself. We did not have the homes across the street from it connected, so we extended our main from the school up and around Oak Ridge Road and then stopped before it hit Railroad Road. So we're picking up the additional customers up in that area.

What did you say the new rate is? $118 a month. Yeah, because it's like $92, crap. $92.50 was when it was previously. So it's $92.50? Yes.

And we had a rate study done during the project of our treatment plant, and Our rate consultant at the time came up with 118 a month based on these 10 new customers already being in that mix. So that's why Adrian said that.

How many current customers do you guys service?

64, two of them being commercial.

And the 175, does that cover the entire bill to lay the pipe in the ground to get these 10 people connected?

It basically covered the cost of all the material to buy the grinder pits, all the sewer lines, the labor and everything.

Just curious, is that a mile? Are all these houses on one road?

So it's not paying for the main, because the main's already in. So we're talking about the actual, there's an individual grinder station at every home.

So the main's already in, you're just talking about connecting all the ten homes from the main. It's because you've got to put the grinder pump in and run it in. Yes.

Some of them, the homes are pretty close to our main, so they're going to be fairly simple to do. How soon do you need the money? Yes. The sooner the better so we can actually get somebody under contract.

And Julie, my last thought is, my memory serves, we've got 228, so let's say the SOC factor, I think, 228.6. Is that number still amounted? Yes.

Nobody's touched it. And what is the complication with getting to that?

Commissioners? Any complications? Purdue's fully prepared that if you guys are, good with this and you say yes you're fine with us continuing forward of taking this to the next commissioner's meeting that we can get on their agenda to get their buy-in and their approval as well if that's what we need to do so yeah but the council is responsible for the legal allocations yeah we would have to have susan advertise that susan would have to draft an ordinance yes and we've got to pass that ordinance yes the commissioners have to release it from

There. Yeah. Yes. Which line? What line is that in? I don't have time. 8,000 is pretty spot on. I forget. I know we asked Susan. She's not on. Susan's not on. She's not on. Oh, she's not on.

I'd like to just throw this out here. Before we start throwing money at entities that are not really county government, I'd like to see their financials. I'd like to see their last audit. What do you think about that?

We just did recently have an audit done that was completed in the last, it was actually, we closed on, had our closing meeting with the on-court at the end of June. So there is that audit available and then also we'd be happy to give you a copy of our, what am I trying to think, our rate consultants report.

I'd like to, I think council, should see the audit and I think they should see your financials. I mean, you're not a county entity. It's not like we're giving money to the auditor's office or whatever. That's just my personal opinion. They can outvote me, but I think it's good stewardship of money to see those types of things.

We'll put out there, I mean, I understand what you're saying that we're not really a county entity, but we are appointed by county commissioners and everybody.

But before I put my signature on it.

That's fine.

I want to see your financials, and I want to see an audit.

We'd be happy to provide any information you guys would request.

Thank you.

The fact of them being a regional sewer board, to your point, the possibility of using the sock factory money for this, to me, makes a perfect fit. I'm not saying... No, I'm not saying... I'm just saying, to clarify what we're talking about, we're talking about stock factory money that's been sitting there since before I've been heard. We've been debating and debating on what to do with it.

I know, but before we just hand that out, I think we should do our due diligence.

I agree. I'm adding on to, I'm making a different point. I'm not arguing against your point. You have a valid point, and I think we should see an audit in the financials. But to the point of where this is coming from.

I know where it's coming from. When I sat on council before, that money was still there.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think we have argued for a decade, over a decade, I don't know how many years it's been, of the sock factory money, what it's used for, what it's going to benefit. And right now we have an opportunity for it to benefit the people who were impacted by the sock factory leaving. I understand that. To me, in my mind, it makes perfect sense that this money would be used, and we're not using all of it. There's a remaining portion of it. But I would really like the stock factory money issue just to get resolved.

Is the, and I don't, is the Brown County, excuse me, the Helmsburg Regional Sewer District, is that set up as a non-profit district? Domestic corporation. Is that how it's titled with the Secretary of State's office? I believe so. Yeah, it should be a domestic not-for-profit, right? Yeah, because the other thing, too, is I will look back when I was on the RDC, and Judy, I think you were the president of the Grand County Regional Service.

For a short time. For a short time, right?

Yeah. That the council allocated, I think it was $275,000. to the Brown County Regional Sewer District. And this would have been 2017, 2018 timeframe. But yeah, I agree with you, your sentiment, that due diligence needs to be done, number one. Number two, as long as that passes the favor and everything looks good this year, I'm in favor of supporting the Helmsburg Regional Sewer District. Okay.

I have a question. Having been in government for about six years, My concern is some of the things that are going on between the Youngsburg Regional SIR district and the Brown County SIR district. When you look at the entities, state entities like IDEM and SRF, they can perceive these, possibly perceive these as, you guys don't interact together. You can't get along together. You're not going to work together. They'll just say, we'll give the money somewhere else where it's a secure, functional entity. These are concerns. This is how it works out there. I don't like the way it works out there, but that is how it works out there. I highly encourage you guys to utilize... The other thing about government is you line up your resources that you have and you utilize them to the utmost. And they are by no means perfect. These people, these entities, the organizations... They're not perfect. You have to bend over and do things that just aren't comfortable all the time. But I would highly suggest we've got some resources in place. And I don't want to end up having us pay the bill or carry the bill when Idem or somebody else steps out of the picture. There's been a lot of momentum and energy put into this project throughout the county. And I would like to see it move forward. You guys are in somewhat of a pivotal position. And we would like to count on you to say, okay, You mentioned something at the commissioner's meeting, Adrian, about egos, and yeah, egos are around. We don't want power trips. We don't need egos. We want to serve the people. The ultimate people is the people of Brown County. It's a bigger issue. So I just want to encourage you, as much as possible, to work in that direction, because we may lose a great deal of funding in the bigger picture.

So to address that, obviously we're not here to talk about HRSD and BCRSD, but since you brought it up, What I will say is I have been meeting last few weeks with Judy Suttonloh, Matt Hamlin, who's on the board, and we are talking through the difficult conversations, Gary. We're having some good conversations. Now, as you guys have seen in this all playing out, there's a lot of emotion on both sides. And it's not that we don't want what's best for the area. We have a difference of how we can get there. And that's what Matt and I are talking about. So conversations are still happening. It's been a little too heated for us to have both of our councils together. But we at least are bringing representatives and we're taking things back to our respective groups. So it is happening. It's just slow. The other thing is with us getting – SRF has granted this money already. All they're waiting for are our bids to be in the range that they offered to pay for. That's it. And we will get there. But what we don't want to do is have to go back and try to raise rates to cover these 10 people that we can't get on currently. That's why we're asking for the money. It's not a power struggle with them or anything like that. It is just we have a need right now for this particular project to get it to the end. It will happen. It's just whether we get those 10 people or not. That's really what we're trying to do. And any people that we can bring on to this project is going to help maintain our rates at what they currently are.

That's fine. I just want to make sure we don't give a message to somebody else like that that we don't ever act together and we lose the whole picture. Yeah. That's good. Keep that in mind because those people just got higher priorities.

Yeah, we need that support from them as well. I mean, we're all trying to do that.

That's fine.

Both sides, I agree. A few weeks ago, at the commissioner's meeting where this was discussed. I had volunteered to be a facilitator, moderator, mediator, what have you, at any discussions between members of the boards. And I have been at the discussions with Matt and Adrian. And the conversation between the two boards has been contentious for years. What Kyle and Adrian are walking into is not something they have started. It's something they've inherited. And even when the current composition of the Brown County Regional Sewer Board, they didn't start it either. They walked into it. So we've got a bunch of people walking into what's been a contentious arrangement for again, decades, and trying to get a resolution to this. The conversations between Adrian and Matt have been good, I think. I mean, I know there's going to be some tension. There's going to be some disagreements that they've been there, but you guys have been civil about it, and you both genuinely have come to those meetings with the intent and the purpose to solve problems. I said, I see this happening. I see forward movement on here and agreements coming together. And I hope that we can help them to resolve the issues. Like you said, Gary, because it's not about... If Helmsburg does most of the work, if Brown County does most of the work, it doesn't matter to me. I want the customers... and the future customers to be in their best possible position they can be with the best possible outcome from whatever sewer arrangement we come up with. And what they're asking for right now is just help on a surprise of higher estimates on what they have already secured funding for. And I said, I have hope that we can get through these disagreements and come to an agreement on the best solution going forward. I am hopeful for that.

Good. When you mentioned, you know, Harry, a can of worms, that's the nature of government. I just want us to rise up and be the adults in the room and take it forward. So if you're doing that, that's fine.

I was just going to expand just a little bit on the funding right now. So all the funding that SRF has basically allocated to us is in the form of grant, to where we're not having to pay it back as a loan. When our bids came in high, they don't have any additional grant funding available that they can offer to us. We've kind of maxed out that amount that they're willing to give us for a project. So they could offer us loan money, but obviously We've got to pay back a loan, so that was going to drive our user rates up even higher. So that's why we said we can't do that. So if the budget we have to work in within is this much in grant funding, we're willing to go back to the table to figure out how we can bring that project down to that amount to say, okay, we can get this done with the grant funding that you're offering us to make our users' rates at least stay at that 118% And then knowing, going forward in the future, the only way we're gonna bring rates down is to be able to add on more customers and stuff like that. So that's the conversations we're having back and forth with Brown County RSD and that is to how, what we can do or what can be done to make that happen, to be able to bring on more customers to our treatment plant and be able to drive down the rates across the board.

That's good. I just want you to be aware of the higher entity there that we don't want to offend that.

While I've got you here, how much is the SRF approved for? Because what you're talking about is essentially replacing the old plant with a new plant, correct? Correct. Okay. And I think I heard that the new plant is 14,000 pounds a day? Yes. Okay. And so what's the cost of that new plant?

The bids that came in, the construction bids plus our non-construction costs, we were right around $8 million.

So to get the new plant in with a 14,000 gallon per day is going to be $8 million. What did the SRF approve? $6 million. four off. Correct. So are you going to be able to cut a million four out of that you think? Yes.

We've been working directly with an engineering firm.

Next question is that once that new, let's say that new plant's up and running, you've gone from, would you say 64 customers to 74, right? Correct. Hopefully that happens. And then what's the capacity utilization of that 14,000 gallons a day based off of those 74 customers?

So right now we average 6,000 to 7,000 gallons a day through our current plant. So even adding the additional 10, we're figuring we're gonna be between seven, eight, maybe.

50% capacity utilization. Will you have the capacity, because this has been going on way too long, as everybody knows. It's being lost. Trying to get some pipe in the ground. you know, to take care of Brownies, right? Because I've heard and been told Brownies is paying somewhere in the neighborhood of a grand a week for Puppenhall. I don't know how they survive, to be honest with you. What has, is the Brown County Regional Sewer District, are they, because I think they got some pretty good chunk of change with some grant money, and so you're going to have the capacity if we get the pipe in the ground and service just the immediate bean blossom area?

So our plan, our thought, our thinking was is that with the capacity that we have, once we start hitting 80% capacity at our plant, by then it was our you know, our entity that controls or we report to. At 80% capacity, they come to us and start saying, hey, you're starting to max out. What's your next plan for expansion? But we feel like we could at least get a main line going and start getting the main players... Two bean blossoms. Hooked up, yeah, two bean blossoms. Start getting at least the main people that are desperate in need of it.

Because at 14,000 gallons a day, what's the total? To get it to 80%, I mean, I can do the math. It's 11,200. 11,200, right. How many households is that? How many hookups could you assume? We could probably add around 35 to 40.

We could add an estimated 35 to 40 additional residential homes. Right.

But like the Bill Monroe, I don't know what their total flow is, but I'm sure during peak hours the flow will be quite a bit. So is the game plan that the Brown County Regional Sewer Districts can put the pipe in the ground from beans and blossom to you guys hook the thing up

That's where our conversations have been as of late.

So right now there's no agreement between Helmsburg or Brown County Regional Sewer District on what that's going to look like and how to get Bean Blossom covered?

Correct, because they've switched gears on their end from focusing on Bean Blossom to now they're kind of focusing on Lakeland area, which we say is fine. More power to them because they need it just as much, if not more. And then what we're trying to have conversations with Brown County RSV is like, okay, if you guys are going to focus over there, will you at least let us focus on trying to start helping Bean Blossom area. So that's where the conversations have been going, at least between Matt and Adrian as of latest. So what does that look like? How can we make that arrangement happen? Whether it's us actually expanding our territory to Bean Blossom and then they're technically our customers to figure out or if we do an interlocal agreement or whatever it might be. That's the conversations that are happening between them right now to figure out what's the best way to approach this. And then ultimately, what does that mean for the user rates at the end, depending on which route you go? Right. It's going to drive the rates down. Exactly. Which one basically makes the rates the lowest. Right.

Well, Mary, I seem to believe a year or so ago I heard something in terms of when you say a loan, weren't they offering a forgivable loan?

that's what the grant funding or the forgivable loan that they've offered to us of this six point that's the six points of the 1.4 wouldn't be a forgivable loan it would be a straight loan yeah i've been repaid on either 20 or 30 year yeah basis okay thank you for our conversation i want to i want to make sure we don't go too much into the differences or the disputes between the two districts because one of them isn't here to speak for themselves so i just We want to make sure we don't get too far off into those weeds. We're just talking about a request for funding for the 10 customers that they have right now.

And if you guys can, whatever information you guys are wanting us to provide you, if you can email us basically a request, we will start working on it right away as soon as we get the email to start getting you that information. So we do have a general email for the sewer district. It's helmsbergrsd. at gmail.com. But we're an open book. I mean, anything you request, we're happy to provide.

We will provide it to you. And we've also got our website, HelmsburgRSD.com, which has a lot of information as well if you guys need that.

Are you going to be able to get, well, I don't know if you can. Yeah.

Okay, so next week we got our three-day budget hearing Tuesday Wednesday Thursday And then the next meeting that we'll have will be the first Thursday in August correct Okay That meeting we can't take a vote Special session here's what I'm trying to think through Judy request and let them know exactly what it is specifically you need so that you all can get that email out to not just Judy but all of us so we can review that and do our fiduciary responsibility if you will but then once we do that then you know when does the board council board I don't I guess what I'm just going to shut up Can we map out a deadline to get this voted on and get it done and just get it done so these guys don't have to wait forever while we're dilly-dallying around? So is it possible to get it? I'm just saying I think out loud too much. Is it possible for us to do our due diligence and then get a vote on this thing on the first Thursday of August during that special session and make a decision and vote on it and get it done?

Well, for now, the next step lies within the commissioners of whether they release that money. Because the way it's locked. Well, I had to check some. Hold on.

Let me interject. Let's think together. The council has to. I haven't finished my sentence yet. First of all, we have to advertise it. Okay. Let me finish my sentence. Susan needs to draw up an ordinance specifically for the council. So it's going to take an ordinance, as we advertised, it takes an ordinance. And then we got August, whatever that date is, that first Thursday, right? I'm with you. Yeah. But we have to go through that and get that done and follow it on the commissioner's lap, correct?

Yes, correct. Okay. But before we can even get to that, what I'm asking for, if we can get the documentation that Judy has asked for... Do we have a consensus among board members of whether this is something we can support?

I've been supporting it for so long. With Adrian to sign that so we can tune in.

And I just need clarification of the email. I have now Helmsburg, R-S-V as in Victor, or are you saying D? D as in Victor. Okay, at gmail.com. Correct.

Okay, thanks. Those emails pop up directly on my phone, so as soon as you get it, I'll see it, and then between Adrian and I, we'll start calling you with the information. I think I may already have yours. Okay.

All right, yeah, I agree with Gary's point on just working together. I mean, obviously, you just did a bid on your package plan and came in way high, and so that is troubling, you know, especially for the folks that live there. And, you know, the most critical piece is getting that plant operational and keeping it operational for the existing 64 customers. So that's my concern. Expansion's great, and the rates are... phew, wow, 118's gotta be the highest in the county. That's painful, and so it sounds like you just raised to that, so considering all the considerations, I guess I'm just confused why the 10 customers is all of a sudden an emergency. It sounds like you've already extended main, and I've got a couple other things I wanted to say, and I don't understand, and part of this is you're kind of, by coming to the council and asking us to approve funding, And kind of to Judy's point, we've got to do due diligence. And you're walking in out of a cold. We didn't even know there was an issue with these 10 customers until you walked in today. In fact, you weren't even on our previous agenda, and it just kind of popped on. And so, as far as I can tell.

There was a request. I was at the Helmsburg meeting. Okay. There was a request. Yeah. A request to be put on the agenda.

That's totally fine. It kind of happened over the weekend, it looks like, or this morning or something.

No, it's that, well, this agenda was...

finally assembled in the last week that they have been so regardless it's you're kind of coming in cold here and so you're in 175 000 for the county is a big number and so i'm i'm looking at a few things here and i mean unlike sounds like a couple others this money is not burning a hole in my pocket I don't think we should rush to get this out the door as quickly as possible. I think there actually are competing projects for those funds, and they'd have to stand on their own merits, but there's the steamer in Helmsburg, there's the community project, which is an important project, there's Parks and Rec that's been interested in those funds for a long time, and my understanding of being a part of that when it was happening, or at least around the folks making those decisions on the Riverboat on the... Sock Factory money, that was a donation from Sharon Ribbenbark. And my understanding and recollection in following that was that she wanted it to go towards some type of community facility that would be named after her son. And I'm not sure 10 Sewer Connections meets that. And so I'm just reflecting on that as we're just getting this information as we speak, right? And so just want to be careful and cautious about that very important gift and make sure we put it to good work. So again, I'm not sure how the 10 customers connects to your larger $1.7 million shortfall. It sounds like it connects to rates, but why it's an emergency is, I'm just caught off guard. I can give you some feedback here. Please do, yeah, give me a second here, because I'm going to just get through this. Just before you do that, let me get through this, and then you can kind of take it from there. So yeah, just concerned about respecting the rights of that, the interests of that donor, making sure we get that right. Working together, absolutely critical. Clearly, if you're seeing that large of a shortfall on a project, that large of a percent, you are gonna need additional support. And 175 is a fraction of, it's actually, what, 10% of the total shortfall. So I'm just trying to add all this up as we see this. I'm also looking at, just reflecting, this is just information for us to make sure we get right. If we're going to spend what looks like $17,500 per customer to improve their septic situation, and they're going to, after the $17,500 per customer, have to then spend $118 a month on top of that. As a council, we're looking at the most affordable options, which I think is what you're considering. You're interested in, you're also interested in your customers, right? As a council, we're interested in every taxpayer. And so if we're just interested in the lowest cost per taxpayer, you know, I think we should consider septics for those people. If we're going to pay the full boat, $17,500, that would put a brand new septic in. Now, some of those are probably down on the lowest spots or in floodplain. Maybe they can't have one. But you described areas out of the floodplain. And so by spending the cost of a septic per person, per household, and making them pay the $118,000 versus just buying a septic as a council, strikes me as that septic sounds like a much more affordable option for those 10 families if they can put one in. And if we're playing the full boat as a county, I think that needs to just be discussed. district totally get it I guess the other thing I'm just concerned about is you know this support letter that you requested from the commissioners and the next step of that and I'd like to hear from you today that you are not going to petition item to expand your territory until you completely exhaust your negotiations with the Brown County Regional Sewer District and come back to us and help us understand what's happening there. So, that was it. I just threw a lot at you.

Hold on, before you start, to one of those points, we do not have anybody here from Brown County Regional Sewer District, so I don't want to get into any of the any of the differences or discussion between the two of them because we have half of those interested in this aren't here to make a statement, rebut, or say anything to the contrary of anything. So I would like us to avoid tonight any discussion of the differences or the, I guess, challenges between the two boards.

All right, I'm going to try to remember what to even speak to here. Why the sudden rush of $175,000 is because we are doing everything we can, Scott, to not push these people off for another year, two, three years. We have people that have systems that are coming into failure, and they need help. They know what the cost is. They've already agreed to it. We are trying to do every penny-pinching method that we can to drop that 1.7 million. The one thing I will tell you is we are not dropping capacity on our plant by dropping the 1.7 million. It's some of the automation stuff that makes it easier for our operators. So we aren't going to have some of that, okay? As far as... Why we requested the, and I'm not going to jump all into this, but the reason we requested the commission is because they vote all three of us in. And we want to expand to help the people in Pete Blossom. So what we did was we thought, who better to go talk to and try to get assistance from than the people who elect us? That's why we went there. All the talks are still happening. Matt and I have got a talk that we'll probably have next week or the week after. So it doesn't mean this is all stopped. There's not a power struggle here, and I don't know what our next step is. Our first step was to figure out whether we even have support to do anything. So our next step is to work with them, do what we can to figure out how we can get to everybody. You're wrong about it just being us worried about our customers. We have so many people that are contacting us that want sewer over in Bean Blossom, okay? Brownies in particular, right? We've talked about that. We're just looking for ways to get that to them because, you know, Matt and I have talked about this. The economy is scaled for this. The more people that we can get pulled into this, the quicker... the cheaper that we could potentially make it for all of us. We'll get to a point where we'll bring in enough money we can drop rates. Right now, would you want me to come to you after already raising it for 118 and tell you we don't have those other 10? We've got to reevaluate everything. And maybe now it's 125. Maybe now it's 200. I don't know. So that's why we're coming to you guys about this. It is that important. I know how you feel about the stock factory money. We've had multiple conversations about it in meetings. And we're not trying to just come in and take everything. We have a need. I honestly don't care where the money comes from. We just thought the stock factory money was a good place to start.

That's why we've come to you about that. If you've got that money sitting somewhere else, wonderful. That's what we're requesting. I'm not trying to pull some power struggle here.

We are just trying to help the people that are asking for it. And to your point of installing a new septic system for most of them or anything of that nature, they don't have the room. I am a licensed septic installer here in the county as well. But most of those customers are on small parcels of land. We're not talking acres upon acres of land. and they don't have room to be able to put in a new septic system or a new field or anything of that nature. There might be a couple of them, but those are the ones that have directly come to us and said we would rather be on sewers than spend the money to put in a septic system.

Can I intervene here for a minute? Yes. Just a quick follow-up question. $17,500 per household to do the connection to the main. Is the resident, are they paying Not right now. So there's no, so in other words, these 10 households don't have any skin in the game as far as financial skin.

As soon as it's hooked up, then they're going to start getting the bill. No, I'm not talking about that.

My question is, I guess, you know, if you guys put a line on Bexgrove Road, I mean, you know, I'd be excited. And I'd be willing to, you know, share part of that cost. Because let me ask you another question. If they had to install a new septic system, assuming that they could put one in, I mean, what's the cost for a brand new septic system? $20,000, $25,000? Yeah. Yeah.

Right now, 20 grand is usually about a three-bedroom system, 25 is about four.

Right. So if I take 20,000, 25,000, and amortize that over a 10-year period at, say, 6% on a home equity loan, their payment on that debt service is probably going to exceed that of what their monthly sewer bill is. So that's a pretty good deal for the homeowner that don't have any liability. There's no debt. There's no money out of their pocket. you all roll in, pay the $17,500, hook the house up, and then they got a monthly installment of $118 a month. So to me, you might want to consider 10%, 20% cash out of the, they're providing, they're getting the service, and so to me, I live in a world that if I want something, I have to pay for it. So I'm not quite sure why Helmsburg Regional Sewer District has to pick up 100% of that cost.

So when this was originally included in the SRF project, that we're using to get our treatment plant. We were doing a treatment plant plus also hooking on these 10 homes. And when we were in negotiations with these property owners over, we needed easements and things like that to put the main lines in and everything else like that, the agreement that we had between the property owners and us was that if this is gonna be SRF funded, then we're gonna basically pay for the hookup And you're granting us the easement.

So what you did is you negotiated with the homeowner that if you sign the easement and we get the line in, then we'll do a hookup for free. Correct. That's what you guys committed to. Correct. Got it. Okay.

Along those lines, I've got a question on the rate from 192 to 118. Was that a comparable to the source rate that some people needed to have their grinder replaced? So you just instead took that and amortized it up to a higher rate? Is that what happened there, a compromise of sorts?

Repeat that one more time. I lost you.

I heard, and I may not be accurate. The rate of going from 92 to 118, some people, a good number, whatever, whatever that is, needed new grinders or something of that nature, which are expensive, a couple thousand dollars or something, whatever. So instead, you said, well, we'll pick that up. We'll just raise the rates for everybody to 118, and it's absorbed into your operating expenses.

So when we were talking rates and everything in this SRF project, we had a public meeting back in January. And at that meeting, we gave our current users basically two options. One, we could keep the rate close to $92.50 or in the $90-ish range. But that meant that they had to assume the responsibility and the control of their individual grinder stations and everything in their homes. That we wouldn't, you know... we couldn't come and keep replacing pumps and maintaining those stations. Now, if they wanted us to continue to maintain and operate those individual stations like we currently do, then we would have to raise the rate up to that 118. And we basically took a poll and a vote with all of our users. We sent out mailers to them. We took a vote even then at the public meeting and everything. And we pretty much, I got, I think, 30 some responses back, I only have one person that responded saying that they'd take over ownership of the rider station and they wanted the rake to stay in the 9250-ish range. Everybody else said we can't afford to replace that pump when it goes out, so they wanted to raise the rake to the 118 and let us continue to maintain and operate them for them. The pump itself right now costs us about $2,200, $2,300 when we have to replace just the pump. We do still have quite a few pumps in our existing system that are still original pumps from when they were installed back in 1996. I knock on wood and cross my fingers every day that I don't get 10 phone calls all at once that I've got to go replace pumps. But raising that rate to the 118 at least allows us to start building kind of some cash flow, you know, in our accounts that that way when that does happen, we can, okay, we got the money, go ahead and order another replacement one to sit on the shelf. Before this, we were really close to operating at almost zero dollars. I mean, we'd get to a point, we'd start saving some money, and then all of a sudden things would start breaking or whatever, and then we'd kind of almost drain the account to get back to that point. We did have a line of credit out with our bank for quite some time. I think it was originally taken out in like 2017 to do some improvements at the plant or some repairs at the plant. Just last month in June, we paid that line of credit off finally. So we are essentially debt free right now as we stand and are just trying to basically pay our operating bills, pay our normal utility bills that we've got, and be able to save that money for repairs, replacements, and that kind of stuff in the collection system or in the treatment plant. And I will say, our treatment plant is on a lifeline right now. We are throwing Band-Aids and duct tape on it almost by the week at this point in time, trying to keep it going until we can get this new plant. So NSRF, IDEM, everybody all knows how desperate of a need we are for that plant. So everybody's under that mindset of trying to get us to a point that we've got a new plant. And the plant's not just another package plant we're throwing in the ground. It's an easily expandable plant so that when we do start adding on more flow from bean blossom or wherever it may come from, we can go in and we can do another improvement to that plant, upgrade it, add another line in it, and okay, now we got more capacity to handle those people. The package plants are, they have a lifetime life expectancy of about 20, 25 years. Ours is 30 years old. So it's, It's on a lifeline.

I'm going to step in here for a minute because I just kind of worked the math on this. First of all, when I put a septic in, I'm going to have to go through the health department, and then that septic's got to be sized for how many bedrooms, I believe is how it's sized, is it not? So if I go in, let's say I put a $25,000, spend $25,000 on a septic system, and let's say that septic system's sized for a three-bedroom, maybe four, I don't know. And I financed that $25,000 over 15 years, so 180 months at 6% interest. That 15-year payment's $210.96. Now the challenge with that septic system, and correct me if I'm wrong, so now I'm locked into 180 months at 6% at $210.96 for that brand new septic system that limits what I can and cannot do to that house. Whereas if I'm on a sewer system and I'm paying $118 a month and I want to add five bedrooms and 10 bathrooms, are you guys going to monitor the flow on the septic system or the sewer system? Residential. Residential. This is a residential. Residential. So what you're telling me is not only do I not have to borrow any money and I don't have to pay $210.96 a month, I can hook up to your sewer system and if I want to add additional floor space and digital bathrooms, I can do it without having to get any approval from anyone other than I'm assuming planning and zoning probably intervene there. But with regards to the health, I don't need any approval from them because I'm on your sewer system. Am I not? That sounds like a really good deal.

To your case, so all of our residentials are just charged flat rate fee of $118 a month. We can have two commercial properties. the school and the beanery that we get water usage rates from Brown County Water sent to us every month and then they're on basically the base rate of $118 a month but then they're charged I think it's like $26 and some odd cents per thousand gallons over 6,000 gallons of usage a month. So those are the two only commercials we have right now but if apartment complex wanted to come in and build something there, we'd probably treat that as a commercial system. They'd have a little bit different of a pump station or grinder station in it that's at least probably a duplex station, but then they would be basically in that encompass of the commercial system and they'd be charged by their water usage. So same thing like if going bean blossom, you know, brownies would probably be considered commercial Bill Monroe would be considered commercial, so we'd be looking more at the water usages as to what they're gonna get filled, mostly for their super base.

I feel for you on what you're dealing with. I mean, 62 customers operating a plant and a distribution system, as you know, is impossible. It's impossible. And so, yeah, collection, thank you, wrong direction. And so, you gotta add customers, money, More money and more money, basically. And so my comment about your customers was more about just you have a district right now and you have no authority to extend beyond that district. So you are truly here to represent your customers only. And so that agreement with the regional sewer district, because they have all of the territory around you, those are their customers and their responsibility. And so that's where... you know just again want to just encourage you to work with them and and i i also i think it'd be pretty pricey to petition idem for an expansion you know the legal side of that and so just kind of hoping you guys can work that out um and it sounds like you've got some expertise on the regional the brown kind regional sewer district side to help you right increase that customer base whatever that looks like but it you know it's not easy um The other thing I heard you say is, an interesting thing for clarification on the septics, it sounds like they would just prefer to be on a sewer. And to Jim's point, I mean, yeah, when you can, and I think actually their lot size, when they're on sewer, can go down to just a postage stamp. So they could slap five ohms on an acre and a half or whatever.

Right, and every time since 2017, if I've heard this once, I've heard it probably a thousand times, economic development, affordable housing, and the third one is the comprehensive plan. So if there are people in this community that are asked about economic development, affordable housing, comprehensive plan, until we get serious about the infrastructure and address this infrastructure issue, then let's just stop talking about it. Because it's just absolutely a waste of time. So here we are, and I'm going to throw this out and then I'll be quiet, but this has been going on since 2017, for me anyway at least, is that 2050, we need one wastewater utility company, just the same way we have with Brown County Water. We don't need four, three, four, five regional sewer districts. We need one wastewater utility company. And then we can have board members that represent all of the different townships and come together and hopefully be able to create an economy of scale. But this issue of this, it's mine, tribal knowledge and tribal leadership, And this, you know, Navajo's got theirs. Don't come in and mess with Navajo. No, don't come and mess with, or Nashville. Nashville, no, don't mess with Nashville. Really, we are one county, okay? And if everybody within the county can be who you talk to, you know, if we lack housing, which the Sheriff Department, you know, they're, We can't recruit any sheriff deputies, and even if we do, they can't afford to live in the county because we've got 400 tourist homes and the real estate in this county has gone through the ceiling. So if we need to add additional capacity, we have to have the infrastructure. And so, Scott, it's where we are, and I've heard this over and over and over again, and that's all I got to say about that.

Yeah, the other thing I've heard you say, and it may be a, it sounds like you don't care where the money comes from, which is, you know, yeah, when it's coming from somewhere else, that's a good position to have. And so I'm thinking about where the county has money And, you know, the edit fund is controlled by the commissioners. And I know we've used that to kind of shore up our health. And so there may be something.

That's the only place I can do it. It's $175,000. These guys need $175,000 to get those houses hooked up. All right? And, you know, we've got Julie. We've got, what, $4 million in cash reserves and general funds. So we've got the money. SWIFT has a very valid point. We need to get that information in, review it, right? And then we need to make a decision when we're... I'd like to see us make a decision of when we're going to make a final decision and get this issue resolved. Now, how we're going to fund it, what bucket it's going to come out, whether it's economic development, whether it is, you know, pull it out of the innkeeper's tax, ha, ha, ha, joke. Yeah. We have the money. We don't have $175,000. We're not flush with money. Yeah, we're not flush with money. Right, I get it. We've got some uphill burdens or uphill challenges.

So I think we should be talking about us not being flush with money, us being flush with money. We don't know what's going to be happening with property taxes.

I understand that.

I understand that.

It's a vicious circle because if you want to increase revenue You know the best way to increase revenue for this county is to increase housing because most of our tax dollars comes from income tax and And you guys said, I'm assuming, when I go west on 45, most of these people are either working in Morgantown or they're working in Bloomington. Is that fair? Yeah. So if we can get this thing going. Or here, let's just shut it down, and then we've got 60-some-odd homes over there that we'll just condemn all our houses, and they won't have a place to live.

Okay, so to that, I guess what their next step would be going to the commissioners to have the discussion there about the soccer factory money. And when is their next meeting? It's the first week. It's the day before our next. I believe it's next week, Wednesday.

So while you guys are talking about this, Jim, I do want to come back and talk to you about one thing. You talked about we need one utility.

Yeah, the day before our work session.

We do agree with that when the time's right. Correct. Because as of right now, if we were one unit, we can go after one project. But by being separate, we can go for separate projects, expand the way we need to, and then when it makes sense, come back together and do what we can.

Keep in mind, because of what I do for a living, everything is always a forward-looking story problem. And it's not rear view mirror, we gotta look down the road. And you know, my focus on this county, Okay, while when it comes to budget, I'm at 2030 right now. So it's, we got 27, 28, 29, 2030. Because in 2030, we won't have any debt. And as long as no Yahoo comes out of the, you know, $15 million highway department, then we can keep ourselves out of debt. I also want to stabilize the tax rates. But at the same time, you know, with this affordable housing issue is an issue. There's no question about that. We have got to have the infrastructure. So my focus on this infrastructure and one utility company, and we all know that's going to be an uphill battle, not going to be easy, but can you all get there by, you know, I don't know, keep in mind I'm old, all right? I don't know how old you guys are, but I'm old. You know, 2050, I'll be dead. Okay, and you guys won't. Fair? You think so? 2050, I mean, this is 2026. It's 24 years from now. You know, I'm old enough to know that I can't believe how fast the last 24 years has gone by. So it's going to be 2050 before you all know it. And I'd like to see this county start working together and let's get some of this infrastructure and let's address, let's get some stuff done, let's get some stuff accomplished. And part of this is frustrations. You know, you and I worked together back in 1718. So it's, you know, let's, you know, I can't say it because it's YouTube, but let's beep or get off the pot. Yeah. Okay?

Yeah. Okay. To get back to where we were. Sorry. I'm going to have to stop. The commissioner's meeting is on the 5th? 5th. Our work session is the next day on the 6th. So I guess if you would approach the commissioners and have a discussion with them about stock factory money or if there's any... desire to go forward with that. Or other funding sources. Or what they have available.

Can I say something about this soft factory money? If I were the person that gave the money to this county, I sure wouldn't want it to be sitting in a fund that nobody's using to improve anything for as long as it's been sitting there.

I agree.

If it will improve the quality of anything to do with Ellensburg, I'm sure that they would be happy about it.

I mean, that's the condition. I can say what I would. It's just like crazy that everybody keeps improving something. So, yeah, and then we're open for you to come back to our work session meeting. It's at 9 o'clock on Thursday the 6th.

So, Darren, are you going to have... Can we do the advertisement and have Susan draft the ordinance so we can vote on it then?

We're not ready for an ordinance yet. Why not? Well, before they go to the commissioners... Well, they go to the commissioners. Do we have... Let me get to wrap this up. Do we have... consensus among us that if they can go to the commissioners and the commissioners can come up with some sort of funding and that they meet your request, Judy, for the audit and the financial report, that we can work somehow to get them moved forward on this. I mean, I think it's preliminary.

It's preliminary.

That's a lot of yes. Yeah, it is.

It would be very preliminary, and I think other... I think all options need to be looked at for all options.

I will say, I appreciate how fast you're trying to push this through. I really do. And if we could push it past that fast, that'd be great. But I'm not going to stand here and say that I expect you guys to do this. You do need more time. So if we go to the commissioners on the 5th, see what they have to say, either Adrian or I or maybe not both will be at your six but one of us will try to figure out how to be there so if you want we like see what happens between now and then and then at your next regular meeting next month after that or something then have all the ducks in a row at that point in time that's fine with us like we're not expecting you to you know, pushing us through tonight or anything crazy like that.

Once you guys come back March of 2028. Exactly.

Please don't make me wait. I will have raised my rates again.

What kind of time? I don't know if you mentioned what the time frame is that you're looking at on getting the bids again in the next two months?

So we hope to be out for bid within the next couple of months again with the revised treatment plant project, and at least the current plan is that it would be closed with SRF by the end of the year. So at least construction on the plant would start spring next year.

Are you looking at construction or the addition of the 10 extra homes at the same time?

No, we'd like to do that.

You're not waiting on that. As soon as you get funding on that, that can happen. Okay. Thank you.

Where's the rest of this? Thank you.

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Hey, Adrian.

Yes, sir.

Everything with CDC doing great?

CDC's doing really well. Good. Yeah. All right. Appreciate you helping us get it going. No problem. Those suckers keep voting for the next president. I guess I'll hang around for a day. Well, thank you for doing it. See you guys. Thank you.

Judy Swift, you have the floor on an overtime policy discussion.

Okay, so during our PAC meetings, we have discussed not only overtime, but some issues that have been coming up to us regarding overtime and also folks having their vacation and let's say leaving a commission. So if you have someone who has, and let me state that I know that the commissioners are working on shoring up some policies on some overtime, nothing has been set in stone. We're gonna discuss it again at our PAC meeting, I'm sure. But let's just say, for example, I work for Department A, and I've got 50 hours of overtime, and I've got three weeks of vacation coming, and I'm gonna leave my job to go somewhere else. In the past, what the county has done, and I'm talking about probably around up to at least 2015 or 2016, we as department heads were always told, we're not going to pay you out. You will have to wait. If that person leaves two weeks and they still have three weeks of time, then we're not paying you out that vacation time. You have to wait to hire someone or start that new person when your budget becomes equal again. because if we, and we have, we've paid people out and it hurts our budgets in the long run. It will, if we take a stance as a council and say we're not going to be doing this, then it will force the department heads, because some department heads know how, but some department heads are not making their people take They're over time and they just expect it to be paid out when they leave. And if they have it as another fund source from somewhere else and they can do that, great. But I do not feel that it should be coming out of the county coffers because department heads are not enforcing policy and making their people use it and keeping it low. And to me that will force the issue again. Some are doing really well on that. But there are departments that expect it to be paid out. And so I think that we need to seriously take a look at going back the way it used to be of you can't hire someone until you become equal again. And if that means that they're going to be down, that's why they need to have their people cross-trained in all areas. Again, if they have another funding source that's a non-county source and it's allowable, whether it's through a grant or whatever, fine. That's my feeling. That's number one. The other thing, and I wrote everybody an email, and hopefully you all read it, I listened to two meetings, or not meetings, two presentations on Thursday, one on Friday about the human resource systems, maintenance management systems. It tracks, the ones that were presented would track if I came to work and I log in at eight o'clock via either my mobile phone or my computer, It takes care of all the ins and outs. It sends it directly to payroll. It sends it to your department head for all these things for approval as far as is my timesheet correct, the time off request, everything that has to do with human resources, the uploading of benefits. I'm probably going to miss some things, Julie, so feel free to jump in. Anything that has to do with... any and all benefits tracking and those kinds of things. We have gotten in trouble, as we know, for not tracking things properly. So those were the companies that we listened to. They vary in prices, which I don't have in front of me, annual prices. One of the companies actually extract the data from for us and put it in there. I think one company didn't do that. But I also had a conversation today with Teresa, and it was just something that happened to come to mind. I didn't ask this the other day. I wish I had. Are these capabilities designed already within Lau? And she indicated to me, and you feel free to jump in as well on this, Yes, I think she said, and I could be wrong, maybe the payroll portion would have to be, but we're only utilizing 1 8th of what Lau can do according to Ed Wodelia, and that there's all kinds of things that it already can do for us that we're not utilizing, that we need to utilize, that probably would not cost us maybe as much. So my thought is that we also need our PAC, and anybody else that would like to listen to this should have Lau come in and do the presentation at our PAC, not necessarily right here. But that is my thought. But...

I think my biggest thing with Lau is that you have to have time clocks and everything else. And that's going to be a major expense.

Well, the other companies I know provide that as part of their package.

But Lau does not. Well, they do, but they add on to their package for it.

Well, I know, but these packages, I mean, it might be their add-on might be cheaper than company A.

The one company we listened to, they were just HR. Right, they were.

That was the last we listened to. They had no payroll, which was very disappointing.

Very disappointing.

Because what we're finding is, I mean, I'm just going to throw it out there, I mean, it You know, apparently there has been payroll has been done without people's timesheets because people will not turn in timesheets. They turn in the transmittal, which says maybe they've put in 80 hours. But you get the timesheet in later, which really bothers me. And then there has to be adjustments made and all kinds of things in payroll, whether you have to pay them back or you owe them more money or whatever the situation is, which is, costly in its time for our personnel.

It's not any different than them turning in anything else. If they don't want to do it, they don't do it.

So this way, these things are all linked up. So it generates the timesheets. When you go in, you log in. It puts that you're in, you're out. It also knows what locations you're logging in from. It can set up certain areas, like if the police officers have to log in via their car or whatever, then they can do it from their computer in their car or their mobile phone. And if it's us, then if you're here, so you can go in, you have to log in. And it also recognizes your face and those kinds of things so that I could give Gary would hear my login code and have him log me in and me be a ghost employee. So there's a lot of safeguards that could be utilized, and as my understanding, it's the same way with LOW could have that set up too. But we need to listen to what LOW has and what their cost is. And these things, like I said, are not inexpensive. I didn't get the cost on, I think, the last two. I did get the cost on the first one, so I don't want to say something that is

The last one was we just didn't do the cost because it wasn't going to be in HR.

Yeah, it wasn't going to work for us.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to the second one because I was busy with...

It was a big one as well. Like I said, I listened to them all three. But anyway, I do think that we need to come up with a... statement and policy on, I mean, the county's coming up with a statement on policy on how they want to deal with overtime in the county policy, but we need to be coming up with a, if we all decide, not just me, we're not going to be paying you out. You need to be making these people use it. Don't be coming to us with 120 hours and then three weeks of vacation and you don't have the money to pay them out and they leave tomorrow because that hurts our budget. That's all I have to say.

But you fixed that. Couldn't they just sign a sheet? That's what I did at the police department because I worked inside. You just had a sheet, you signed in, you're in. The marshal service, we had a phone system.

We do have timesheets. The problem being is they're also not getting them to the payroll.

Well, this was just one timesheet for one department. And the other thing, I've had a little training in labor law, and you might ask Susan. I don't know that you can actually hold their money greater than two weeks on a payout. I've been through this before, but that would be a good legal question to ask. Any wage that is incurred having to be paid out in two weeks. But it might be a little different, but that would be illegal.

It is. It is different.

But we did have a voice also recognition system, like you said, the marshal service, where it read your particular voice. And you had to call in on the phone that was in the office so they knew you weren't a ghost employee. But that was probably expensive.

Well, none of these are inexpensive. That's for sure. And there were a couple of companies that dealt with larger... metro areas, larger counties, larger entities that really get into the high dollar. Yeah, we didn't even go with those companies. Yeah, we can't justify.

Yeah. So, that's what I wanted to talk to you about to keep you updated on what PAC was looking at.

Okay?

Do you have anything you want to say because you did set in on that one? And you've been in on the pack and you know some of the issues that we've dealt with as far as having to pay people out.

One minute, if we get a system in there, we'll have more people into our paper and videos, which will just stimulate the whole economy.

I agree with what she said because they do not make them, I mean, it was in the book 80 hours. You get 80 hours, you either use it or you get it paid out then. They don't keep track of that. I mean, pretty much you come in, they'll bring in whatever hours they have to turn in. Yeah, 100, 150. You know, I've seen some major hours come in. Yeah, we had one we had to deal with. Brendan and me came in with... Significant. Oh, twice. In some businesses. Twice, yes.

Some businesses, you have to use it within so many months or you lose it.

And like I said, we have to work on some of that, but we also have to be the finance.

understand how they can procure those hours. But you need to be due diligent on what you, you know, 80 hours is 80 hours. That's two weeks of pay. So.

Okay, just an update on the coroners. We've had Kevin Patrick, Commissioner, myself, and concerned citizen Dwayne. Dwayne and Lois Parsons have been involved in some meetings with Mike Moore and Dave Frensmeyer and we've discussed options and used vehicles primarily and what type of vehicles. And what I want to do here and going forward is further research is to say do we want to go consider the option of a new new vehicle or just keep it in the used realm? What about the third option?

anything bring brad into the conversation if the vehicle fits no problem yeah that's all sure brad brad called you know i talked to brad brad brad would not be a new vehicle so that's probably no no okay hear me out you know i brought this up several months several weeks ago Brad has a caravan that he told me that they're going to pull out of service in two years. I said, have you talked to Brad about that? And it's the caravan that they use to shuttle people from the jail to the courthouse. The third option is to, because we've got in the 2027 budget, You know, there's a considerable amount of money in there buying new vehicles for law enforcement because they turn them over pretty quick. Right? I think it's every three years. So a third opportunity would be to, you know, this vehicle that they currently have, can we pull one out of the van and pull that? Because they're driving a caravan now.

It's fine. Feel free to buy a van if you want. We could go. Or even buy a hearse. So you're saying that's available in two years? Yes. Well, or Brad could share that. I'm just saying, we've considered everything from getting a $5,000 HRSA agreement that would go for a year. We'd explore that, how it would work. And then we'd be suited to say, okay, this does or doesn't work. Here's what we need. Go on. But it wouldn't cost us anything to speak of. So that's one option. Or get a new vehicle. You get a new vehicle for $70,000. We're never going to use the warranty. It's going to sit more than it's going to be used. So you're going to lose 30% of the value of it immediately. I don't think that's a good use of money. I don't think it is either. So that's the concern I have is do we encourage them to look for a new vehicle or a new vehicle? Is a new vehicle out of the picture?

To my thought as... you know, a taxpayer, I'm looking at this, you know, the coroner's vehicle is not gonna be used that much. I hope not. Yeah, we hope not. To spend 70 or $80,000 on a brand new vehicle to sit loosely and do not much while it loses That first, second, third, and fourth year significant depreciation value is going to be a waste of a vehicle. Even if it just sits and doesn't accumulate miles, it's going to lose value. For us to be able to turn around and resell it in this brand new condition, but four years old, we're going to be wasting depreciation. And your point about the warning, we don't need the warning on something that's not going to use that many miles. The brand new vehicle would be best served at the Sheriff's Department. I know that kind of goes to what you were talking about with the carrier down from the Sheriff's Department, but if we can find a good used vehicle for the coroner, I got no problem with that.

I don't either.

All I want to do is put it in a carrier, skip the new vehicle, look for used ones. and we can pursue the situation with Brad.

Yeah, I mean, the research that I did, I mean, I got a bid from Woodsy Space out of Salem, okay, that I sent to those guys from the guy that Brad buys all the vehicles off of. I also talked to two other dealers. I talked to a dealer in Ohio, and I talked to a dealer up in northern Indiana. You know, you're 72 grand for a Suburban. It sounds like, from talking to those guys, a Suburban would be the best fit from a size standpoint. It's four-wheel drive. And because the other issue from the corners, my perspective after talking to and looking at it and talking to several people, the vehicle also needs to be set up and equipped properly. So there's a thing you can buy and you put it in a Suburban, it mounts down to the floor of the cab. And so they can lock the cart thing that they got, which is pretty cool. But then you go on, you know, you can go on and go look at, you know, Carvana.com, right? Easy place. You can pull stuff in a matter of minutes. The challenge you'll get with on the use side of it is then you're getting into, you know, your $45,000, $50,000. You can, you know, you can buy $60,000, $60,000, $45,000 to $65,000 depending on the year, the years, and then the mileage in it. So you get into this issue of how much do you spend on a use, and then obviously the condition, the age, the mileage, et cetera. And then you've got Dwight. Didn't Dwight, didn't you say that? Dwayne. What did I call him, Dwight? Dwayne, yeah. You like Dwight, though. You'll go better. You can call me Jim Bob if you want. Did you guys talk to them about the hearse? Yeah, we did. What did they say?

Well, they weren't good with it. Yeah.

They researched it. The hearse is a bad idea, is it? I don't know.

I have 20 questions. First off, If you're going to go in a car lot, the salesman's going to come out and say, what do you want? We don't know. How much money you got? We don't know. Case closed. Before I can go out and do any more research, which I've done quite a bit, we don't know how much money is out there that we might be able to use, whether it's $20,000, $30,000, or whether it's $70,000 plus the retrofit or whatever. In the Democrat, I left you guys an article up there that, I'm not putting you on the spot, I'm just putting you on the spot. It said, Kemp noted that the 2027 budget discussions included $100,000 for a corners vehicle. But I don't know if, I've heard $50,000, I've heard Now, what we kind of need to know before we go forward is how much money do you think within a range we're even looking at? Well, then why don't you do this?

Okay, we could say up to a hundred grand, but we really don't want to spend on it. Exactly. Okay? I mean, I don't want to spend a hundred. And keep in mind, you know, in a previous life, in 1984, anyway, I've worked more car deals than anybody. Here's the thing that concerns me with the coroner's vehicle. That coroner's vehicle, they're probably gonna do maybe 500 miles a month if you averaged it out, maybe 6,000 miles a year. And the problem with that coroner's vehicle is that it is extremely hard on a vehicle to let it set. Letting it set is far worse than stacking a ton of miles on it. So number one, you don't want to let it set. Number two, you get into the maintenance of that vehicle. How well are these people going to maintain these vehicles vis-a-vis oil changes, right? Now, if I knew the vehicle was going to be driven and I knew the vehicle was going to be well maintained, then conceivably you could drop 100 grand on a brand new Suburban and then average it out over a 20 year period, right? Because in 20 years, at 6,000 miles a year, that vehicle still didn't have any miles on it, right? So you could put that in service. And you could do that if it's gonna be maintained, if it's gonna be driven. If it's not gonna be driven, and it was quasi fuzzy math on the maintenance on the thing, then to me, it probably makes more sense to move towards a used vehicle, right? And now you're in that $45,000 to $65,000 range. And the challenge with it is if I can buy a brand new Suburban for $72,000 with no miles, whatever they use, black or white is the kind of color they want. And then you've got to go in and put all the junk in the back of it. That's probably another $10,000, I'm guessing. But you deck the thing out and get it set up versus... So 72 for a new one, but then let's say you've got to spend 50 grand for a 50,000 mile two-year-old suburban. Well, you're getting so close to what a new one is, it's like, maybe I should just go ahead and get the new one and go in at it with the idea that it's going to be in service 20 years, guys. You're going to have to use it and you're going to have to maintain it. The flip side of the coin is, of course you said they don't want to hearse, but But even a Dodge, I mean, an entry-level subcompact car today, front-wheel drive, 1.5-liter turbo, you know, you're $25,000. So at a minimum, you're $50,000 for a new one. And then here's the problem on the used market, and this is, you know, I had a conversation with a person on this. Nationally, Carvana is buying up all the used inventory nationally. They bought up the auctions, and so the used market is real strong. It's expensive. So that's the reason I go back. Brad looks like he's kind of trading stuff about every three years because they're stacking miles on stuff over there.

They're stacking hours. Hours, not miles. Yeah, that's true. That's the killer on Brad's vehicles. Yeah, they sit there and they're idle forever. They're wore out on ours because it's never shut off.

But if you guys wanted to have a conversation with Brad, what I'm kind of thinking is that they're using this one caravan. The other thing on Brad is why can't Brad, if he needs to buy a transport-type vehicle, buy a vehicle that's going to fit the corner's use?

Yeah, when we talked about the reason we went started out with, let me back up a minute. We're looking at what they want, and what they need are two different things. The one is they want this, they want that they want this. He got a brand new corner coming into office is great. You got one going out that yet got his voice in it. That's going to have no No, no, no, no play on it. The new guy, Dave, very nice guy, we talked to him at length, he's got a lot of wants, but it's going to boil down to what the group, the county, ends up getting for a coroner's vehicle. Now we have to play into his wants and his, but we look more at, hang on Dan, we looked at wants and then I've got the needs And the needs, we looked at the hearse because we could get a 2019, like a five, six-year-old hearse for $40,000. It's absolutely luxurious. I mean, it's too nice to almost put out in this type of environment. Lincolns are all-wheel drive. They're one and four-wheel drive. Lincolns were all-wheel drive. Our Cadillacs were front-wheel drive. but you've got a lower clearance, you've got a longer wheelbase, and their worry was, well, we can't get up the drives, we can't go... My rebuttal to that was, bring the person, the deceased, to the road. If this person fell out of a tree stand a half mile back in the woods, we're not taking anything back in there but a four-wheel... ATV and a sled or something anyway. So you can do the dignified part the best you can. But if we can get them to the road, and we've kind of backed off the hearse idea because of so much pressure, but if you get them to the road, the hearse does everything. And there was a dignity issue, I guess, the last time they bought something, the last couple members of the community said, well, they're not going to take my deceased in a pickup truck. Yes, I'm here.

I'm in the meeting.

How can I help you? You put a fiberglass shell, you know, a cataply shell or even a little higher, on a pickup truck. I don't think my truck is undignified to put a body in. We're going to get them from point A to point B. Yeah, but Dwayne, hang on a minute. And you can flesh it out. And the pickup is versatile in the fact that... Go ahead. Well, I mean, I've talked...

I ain't told you back. No, I mean, I've had a number of conversations. You know, had my wife died at home and you all showed up at my house... or I needed a corner, I'd have a really difficult problem with somebody showing up on the pickup truck and throwing the corpse in the back of the pickup truck. We're not talking about throwing them, for one question.

It's a pickup truck with a camper. And a Suburban is an enclosed pickup truck. I understand.

I own a Ford. I've had a Ford Excursion. I own a Ford Excursion. So now where we're at with the ones that need... What about the Dodge Durango? Have you looked at the Dodge Durango?

I presented my part of it, and I think the main thing that has to happen is find out how much money you've got, when you can get the money, when you want the vehicle, and then we'll start looking from there. But I spent quite a bit of effort trying to find something that is either new or used, And so there's my rest and my case.

I got a question. What about a brand new four-wheel drive base model van, full-size van?

Four-wheel drive? Four-wheel drive. I looked all over. Now, I'm not saying they're not out there. I know they used to, and that might be like a manual transmission.

I looked all over these tapes. Chevy and Ford doesn't have them. We can't get them. Mercedes.

I know, you know, Earl. used the hearse that was from Bonds, and no one ever complained that they put their loved one in a hearse. Correct. And if it's all wheel drive, as you say the Lincolns are, and you're right, if somebody falls out of a tree stand, we're not taking the hearse.

You're not taking anything.

You're not taking anything other than ATV or... Just like the EMTs that used to carry people out, the ATVs out of the park. I'm not opposed to a hearse. I mean, lots of places use, I mean, if it's not a coroner's case, and Jamie shows up at your house, he's in a hearse.

And then, to add to the confusion, we were traveling this last week, and Louis looked over and said, well, look up there, there's a pickup truck instead of a coroner all over the site. So it has to do with counties and how the board feels and whatever.

I've got a question. If you did the pickup truck thing and brought them to the road, doesn't that require more people and more money as far as Two vehicles are being used instead of one. You're talking about what now? If somebody falls out of the tree and you're going to have a pickup or you're going to bring them to the road or whatever, if you're using two vehicles, if you've got a hearse on the road, and say you are using a pickup truck, a four-drive... No, we were going to use an ATV. Wouldn't it take more people to do that?

We were going to use an ATV or something. Brad mentioned that. But again, if you have two vehicles, it takes more people than if they have one vehicle.

Why would we be using two vehicles? Because you're not going to get a four-wheel drive truck back.

Well, doesn't an ATV cost money to use?

We have them.

First of all, you've got to get the ATV there. Correct.

Thank you. You're not going to drive it there. But the coroner's not going to do that. Someone else will do that. Yeah, exactly. Law enforcement.

Law enforcement. But that's to his point. You've got other people that are involved. They're going to be there anyway.

I can tell you they're going to be there anyway.

There's going to be nine fire departments. three ambulances that's true and I appreciate it but the reason that I looked at first looked at the hearse one is I could not find a van anywhere that was four wheel drive and under their needs they had four wheel drive with clearance well we couldn't find a van anywhere now I'm not saying they're not out there because they sell them they make them but we couldn't locate one And even at that, then you've still got the van is open. They were adamant about not wanting the corpse, we'll say, in the... in with them because of contaminations, viruses, fluids. They wanted it sealed where they could take it back and then cleanse it out.

Because if you've got a gomer, if you know what that is, a gomer is a body that's rotted or you get it out of the creek and it's split. They're talking about... No, I understand, but I've been a part of all of this. You've got crap spraying everywhere. I understand exactly what you're talking about. You twist them, they split, and it just spews out. So, no, no, no, this is important because you belittle these things. No, because that's the reality of it. If we're going to talk reality, you need a vehicle that can accommodate that, and I know exactly what the corner's talking about, and to do anything else, especially if you have a hearse that's got carpet, is negligence in my opinion. I've said bike jam. That's my piece.

That's why I thought of the van, because the van, all it takes is one panel. A fiberglass panel seals the back from the front.

As long as it's sealed, that's fine. And then you've got to get out the carpet and whatever.

I mean, that's... Well, if it's stripped down, you don't have carpet in there anyway, so I just figured a stripped-down van.

Let me ask a question. The last five years, what have you been using? Was it an Earl Sertz hearse from Bond Funeral Home? Is it a four-wheel drive, two-wheel drive? What's going on? Was anybody complaining? Was it functional enough?

He used it for years.

Yeah.

He used a hearse for years.

Hearse for years, nobody complained, two-wheel drive.

Usually when they come to pick up your loved one anyway, they're in a hearse because it's usually the funeral home that comes to get them.

So that has been an entity that has worked.

And every county is different. Some counties, and like I say, I know this is American County, but the point is they're all different. The coroner came to everything because there's a uniformed officer. We had to sit there until they came and it might be six, seven hours.

But I don't know how it works here. They put the body in a sealed body bag.

Well, I can't help that. But that's my point. If you're transporting it, that is my exact point.

Yeah, and Patrick, I put a lot of weight on your experience. You've been, and Dwayne, I appreciate it. I think what Dwayne is asking us for is a budget. Let's leave the search to, if we've got a volunteer willing to do the search, Let's leave it to him and give him a budget, say up to an amount. We're not committing to anything. We're just saying, hey, Dwayne, as a consensus, and I'd suggest we start up to 50. 45,000, how's that? But we've come under 50, and hopefully it's 25 or 15. I don't know. Well, and that's the question. So whatever that number is, I'm just throwing 50 out there.

I mean, that's a... I want to jump in here for a minute and comment on a couple things. We're talking 24 to 30 recoveries a year on average. At the most. At the most. At the very most. Number two, I had a conversation with the individual that owns the, what's the name of the funeral home here in town? Bond. Huh? Bond. Bond, yeah. And they got one in Bloomington. Right. So they got three funeral homes.

Anyway, yes.

All right, well, my point. If you have a physician, attending physician, and you have cancer, and you die at home, and you do your arrangements before you die, I don't need a coroner. And what he told me, correct, right. And so the child, and he also, because I called the bond guy, and I asked to see if he was interested in negotiating a contract to provide the recoveries on our behalf. And he said, absolutely no. Wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. And because he said part of the challenge is we're in Brown County. And the challenge that we've got in the county is that we have individuals that haven't seen a doctor forever. And then they get sick and they die. And they don't have a clinic physician. They don't have a doctor. Well, guess what? That's when the coroner has to step in.

But you're not talking about hundreds left.

No, no, no, no. Right. Well, I'm just saying there's, because I didn't understand that prior to this conversation. What budget would you suggest? Lastly, if we're going to do it, can we do it right? And can we put a policy in place and follow what we do it? And, you know, just manage. It's an expense. It's not an asset. It's a pure 100% expense. The other attitude mindset that I've got is that, you know, the corner office has kind of been treated historically kind of like a stepchild. Okay. And so this is a, you know, we had to build a new building. We had to spend all this money to get them up in business. Now we're down to the vehicle. And if we're gonna do it, let's do it right, all right? And let's set the vehicle up, let's make sure it's got all the stuff in it, the bags, the containers, the lockdown, everything they need. This guy, Brad, buys all his vehicles off. They can install that, but I don't know, it's probably 10 to 15 grand to get all the stuff that they need inside that vehicle. And so I would say, personally, I went to GM, I went to Ford. You can go look at Mercedes. Mercedes, you can just buy one, but they're outrageous, the four-wheel drive vans. Ford and GM do not manufacture a four-wheel drive van. Mr. President, will you take a motion from Jim? And so, so, so, Dwayne, $50,000 to $75,000. So moved. You know, if you can fit that niche, putting all the stuff in it, you know what I mean? Used, no used, 50 to 75 grand.

I want to make a statement. Sorry, Scott, but we're here to do our job. I don't think that they have been treated like a stepchild at all. We were actually spoiled very rotten because, you know, we were treated very well with Earl for many, many years. And when the actual Bond Mitchell people owned it, it was a great cooperation. They have not been, our corner house has not been treated badly at all. They even got a new building and that kind of stuff. They've been treated badly at all. I think we also have to look at, yes, anywhere at the most, probably 30 to 40 coroner cases a year. And does that warrant a brand new vehicle? I personally don't think that it does. I tend to agree that the sheriff's office needs a new vehicle more than the coroner's office. So I think that $50,000 is probably more in the area with good maintenance and that type of thing. And I'm not being mean to the coroner if you're listening.

What do you think, Gary? I think $50,000 is a good starting point.

All right. I mean, it's an up-to number. What does everybody else think? Jim, is that too low? And it's an up-to. Maybe he can find something used. Surely 50.

When I talked to the coroners as well after our meeting, I said, so Earl spoiled us. It's going to take us three to five years. get up to the point where we really are totally tooled up in that area. So $50,000 to get into the picture and start working on it. Maybe in five years we'll get him something new and we'll know exactly what we need.

Okay, I'm okay with up to $50,000. And he's going to find out real quick if that's even workable. I mean, Patrick, Darren, Joel. $50,000. This is just, we're just trying to give him something to go on. Can you live with 50, up to 50, and start your search? Yeah, we can live.

And bring us like three options, maybe? You just need to have an idea before you make a fool of yourself on the car lot.

Yeah, would you accept the motion just to ban? I move that we ask, we have a volunteer here, Dwayne, to pursue options for the county coroner's vehicle up to $50,000, come back and report to us. We're not authorizing any funding or anything like that. Right.

Coroners will be looking for that, too. They just need a figure. That's my motion. So let's say $50,000. Yep. I'll second it.

Okay, we have a motion. Second, all in favor? Aye. Opposed?

One.

Should I have been higher? I have a question. Did you get that, Julie? 660S10. I guess I don't have a question.

No, then. Come on, Joel. Under what circumstances does a coroner take the body there? I've lost both my parents down here. The coroner has come, pronounced them dead, funeral home came, and took my parents away. Now, they weren't smeared out on the highway somewhere either, but I mean, under what circumstances do you have to have a coroner pick up and take possession of the body?

Okay, I'll tell you, because I worked at the health department, recorded deaths, dealt with the coroner. It is exactly what he said a little ago. If you have a physician that will sign off on that death certificate, the coroner does not have to be involved. Now, he may show up, have a family member that passed, and... burner showed up and they discuss it through, find out they have a physician. The physician, he may say, well, I'll go ahead and take the body and I'll hold it and then the funeral home will come and pick it up tomorrow. Let's just say it's at 2 o'clock in the morning. They don't want to call Jamie Meredith at 2 in the morning. Why not? Well, they can. But what I'm just saying is they find out that there is someone who's going to sign off on it and they can they have a physician. Now, if somebody, like he said, hasn't had a doctor's visit in many years, and a physician goes, I'm not touching that, or if they think there's a suspicious kind of activity around it, you know, then they're going to do an investigation like this. And then they're going to take it back there. But there is a time that they will house, or if you have many deaths because of you know, some, God forbid, some sort of a natural disaster or whatever.

Okay, but if there's not, if your family, if your mother had no prior encounters with the physician, say for a year, and that doctor's not, when you call them and there's not someone that's gonna sign a declaration or a death certificate, that will become a coroner's case. But it is like she said, but they have to know time ahead of time.

Yeah, and history of heart disease. Oh yeah, Jane had a history of heart disease, all likely she had a heart attack and died.

In her case, yes.

Do we need to vote on those?

Did we vote?

Suburban or Durango is my pick. Suburban Durango.

I didn't think the Durango was big enough.

Well, we need to double check. And it hurts. Do I have to be Suburban or Durango?

The coroner looked at the vehicle and said it was too short. Which one? The one Brad had. The Durango, yes.

The original Durango, I believe, yes. And I think Brad agreed with him.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. I was here. Okay, it wasn't the Durango. It was the Ford Explorer.

Well, one of them, their feet moved.

It was the Ford Explorer. The cot would not fit in the Ford Explorer. So the Explorer will not work.

You're dealing with a Durango?

Well, you need to double get that, it's that cot thing they've got, because you've got to put that, you know, you've got to put that plastic wall thing, you know, between the two front seats and the back, and that takes up, you know, it's mounted to the A pillars, right? So you've got to put that in there, and so if he's got a Durango over there, which they said, not they, I'm talking about another person I talked to, Brad's got a Durango, and they've got a really nice cot that's got the electric thing and the wheels fall down on it, that's what's got to fit, and then you've got to secure that down once you get it inside.

Something that would not cost a fortune to convert to a coroner's vehicle. Yeah. We're going to have to remove carpeting, we're going to have to remove seats, chairs.

Define fortune. Define fortune for me, that's up. It's within $50,000 total cost. Yeah.

So we've got a $50,000 total cost, we'll go from there.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I think we should, Julie can, I think it's Lou, this is a, first of all, for the council's sake, this is a four month appointment. It's to fulfill the remainder of the term of the Parks and Rec board member that passed. So we had a board member that passed Parks and Rec. and the remainder of that term is through the end of the year. So this is a short term deal. Normally we advertise multiple meetings, 60 days later we're appointing somebody, but that's halfway through the end of the year already. They do have things going on there, good things, and the board president reached out and said hey we you know it'd be good if we could get somebody in there so we can kind of make sure they're you know looking out for the county property so i would suggest maybe i don't know how we do this but kind of like a little abbreviated announcement i think there could be interest there in the community and so maybe we don't do the old newspaper and wait 60 days and you don't have to wait 16 days well can we put it in our on the website or something other way to do that and and then we as a board find you know a good candidate and ask them to come submit a letter uh by what our next regular meeting and i mean 30 days too long or could we do uh i i don't know why there's no there's no legal reason to wait i mean we could

I mean, I don't know.

I would say website and paper both.

Normally the reason we have a time limit on that is to allow people who want to apply for it to apply for it.

Right now, we have an emergency. An unexpected opening.

So that was one of my questions. So the president of the parks board did come to you and say...

They have a lot going on. I mean, lots of activity.

I have another question. So if you want to allow to come in and do a demonstration, do you have a date you might want that done?

Well, I think you probably could organize that through the commissioner's office since they are over the pack, really.

Let's get this part started. Maybe I suggest a motion just to get us started with the process. So I move that we... So if something hits you... Well, I move that we announce it in the paper next week and on our website. I don't care if you pull that off for us or not or who does that. And then ask for it. Do you want to do it at our regular meeting or our next?

As soon as we have somebody reply.

I was going to say have them submit them. by our work session, and then we can appoint them at the regular.

I just nominate Scott Rudd to be on. Yeah, no thanks. Denied. I mean, if I had to, I would, but yeah. Well, you have to, sir. Oh, man. Yes, sir. So, our next council work session is what we say? The 6th. August. August 6th. Okay. So, that's, okay. So, it'll be in the paper next week. Ask for submittals by the 6th. Actually, by the 5th. That'd be the day before.

Right, by the 5th.

To the auditor's office. So the motion is advertising the web and the paper closing on the 5th or until 5th.

Let's do that.

Or until 5th. See what we get.

We can go from there. Yeah, just say until 5th. What we get up to the 5th and we discuss on the 6th.

Alright, we have a motion. Do we have a second?

I'll second.

Motion to second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed?

Art, do something before we start again. I got, what, you got council updates here? Council business?

Yeah.

Okay, yeah. So, two things. Judy and I met with Parks and Rec this, or I guess this afternoon, to talk about how their, I don't know if everyone's had a chance to see what Julie sent out. Parks and Rec has broken down, at our request, tourism-related expenses. Jeff's pointing at his phone. I gotta let the horses out. You gotta let the horses out. Jeff's gonna let the horses out.

Well, maybe you should have talked like a third more than you did, less than you did.

I mean, see, this is good punishment for you. So, Julie and I met with the president of the CVC, Jeff? Judy and I met with Kevin Ault, President of the CBC and the Parks Director and the Parks Office Manager today to go through what they gave to us and what Julie sent us, tourism-related expenses in their budget. And the reason I'm telling you this is that our budget hearings with the CBC, Kevin suggested, I think it's a good idea that he invite the whole CBC to join us so that we can get a budget nailed out and get their blessing on utilizing innkeeper's tax dollars on taxpayer-funded pieces to offset that funding, and we put it towards critical county needs, and you know what those are, it's public safety. So we think if they're there and we have a discussion, That'll be good. We've got the parks and rec budget in our hands. It's actually, I mean, it's a very helpful document. It's just a suggestion. They went through and estimated what the use was. It's tourism related. It can go up, it can go down, it can be eliminated, whatever we wanna do. And so that conversation's gonna occur. We also have a meeting with Kevin and the Historical Society folks to talk about their budget and what they do to maintain our county property at the Pioneer Village. and how we can help them just have a reasonable maintenance budget so things aren't getting deferred and growing, log cabins rotting and expenses. We just need a reasonable budget there. And I understand that there's been some conversation with the fair board as well. And so quick update there, that's where that's going. But the reason why I'm paying a lot of attention there and you've asked me to engage those boards is because last year the council asked me to ask those boards to provide a tourism related expense. And so at our last meeting. And it shifts.

And it shifts. That money out of our county budget so that we can concentrate on areas that we see. Again, public safety, you know, the ambulance service. Whatever those public safety needs are, it frees up some of those monies. And they can prove that it's tourism related. So we're not going to get dinged. Because that's one of the things I asked today. Can you prove, do you have the ability to prove that they're using, you know, Albuquerque people are using these facilities and they have a way to capture that. So...

I think as a council we have essential government services that we are required to provide. Essential services, right? So secondly, so that's the update on that. You asked me to look into that. I'm working on it and trying to get things in order so that we make sure that goes through seamlessly this year. Secondly, the other thing council many, many months ago asked me to look at when I was looking at an addition to innkeeper's tax, additional revenue generating ideas. It was a regional economic development group through a $3,000 CVC contribution from innkeepers tax and some other utility investments. A study has been applied for to determine what that district looks like. So we got about three grand into it. It's all innkeepers tax and it's probably a hundred thousand dollar study. That has been applied for. ROI, our regional partner, has agreed to take on all the administrative burden for that study application and all that stuff. And so that's been applied for. When I have word for you that our $3,000 investment is awarded, returned in the form of a study grant, I will let you know. But as of right now, I don't have anything to report to you. By the way, that district... is currently available to i think it's 87 other counties out of the 92 in the state have access to those funds and one of the uses for those funds is sewer districts we currently can't access those funds today but this district would open the door to sewer district funding for helmsburg like bean blossom like investments and so we've never been eligible for it not 85 other counties are and have been We're just, of course, the open donor. So that's what's happening there. Notice, report to you. We got, like I said, $3,000 in Keeper's Tax in it. We're going to find out if we get a grant just to study it. At the end of that study, we can say no thanks. We can say wonderful. The county can kind of decide where it wants to go from there. But thanks to our ROI partners for kind of taking all that administrative burden off our plate. With that, thank you.

Motion to adjourn.

Second. I mean,