County Council - Regular Meeting

Good.

Actually, my mom died today. at some point. 38.

Step. Wow. It's a long story. Ford pediatric picture. Oh, it was a

long growing up. We always had a function that we had 37 years. revolver. Yeah, there's no need more button you push, you know, to lock. I don't need that.

What do you want to do? No, I just I was

I mean what Susan said on this were just zero zero. Looks like we have some people out here.

Restaurant nice cover. My son was honest. At least after being ready to United States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We have got an agenda chance to look at it. Any proposed changes? One I have is that we have a there is a a transfer that we're going to have to council number two. It's a transfer within the prosecutor's office. So add that on there. All right. Minutes. get a chance to look at those minutes from February 17th regular meeting and our March 5th work session meeting accept approve.

I'll second that motion second. All in favor of approving minutes from February 17th and March 5th. I I I post not for that. Are you do Yeah. To clarify that we're going to do on when we're when we're taking votes, we're going to do a show of hands and then on on certain financial stuff, we'll do roll call on it. approving minutes. We're not going to do roll call. It's not necessary. I was just asking.

Okay. Thanks for asking because I wanted all right. We have this salary ordinance. Has anybody had a chance to look that over? Anybody have any more questions on that? We we did extensive we had an extension extensive discussion about this at the work se work session. That's pretty much all we're focused on at the work session. The salary amendments amendment one. Anybody have any questions, concerns? Anything that's come up since the meeting? If not, I'll take a motion to approve. I'll make a motion to approve this calendar ordinance for one.

I a second. Second. Sure. Yeah, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? I I All opposed? No. Good. Darren, call. Roll call vote. Yeah. Okay. Judy, no. Scott, no. Gary's not here. Yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, no.

It's three to three. Gary, you don't know. Okay. What? What? I There were changes made that went against what Wis had recommended and I vote no.

All right. We don't have a salary ordinance. Commissioner's appropriations. Everybody has that list. Teresa has asked us about that numerous times. The Do we need to go over this again or have we gone over it enough? You just sent me the last version. All that work for nothing. you in everybody.

Well, while they're doing that, I'm going to go in the record with a couple comments.

Okay. Um on the original 26 form one, this is the general account. Um there was $261,000 that was submitted on the form ones. Um, that was the 39 line item 396, line item 12100, line item 38800, line item 35,000, line item 3102, and line item 35400. Um, the adopted budget for those line items that I just mentioned was $155,177. the council um cut a 100,000 out of those requested 41s. However, these additional appropriations, they've come back and asked for $193,237 and an additional $87,415 above and beyond uh what they originally asked for on the 41. And in addition to that, um, they somehow left out the line item 12,100, which is the administrative assistant position, which they've got a salary down here at 42415. And keep in mind on a salary of 42,415, this is $65,000 annual cost of the county by the time you add everything up on it. So, yeah. Would you pass that down? Maybe. I don't.

Jim, would you take a peek at that? There's some things in there that Scott. Have you seen that? Oh, did you get that different? Yeah, I got a different one. Here's a complete breaking up that breaks it all down for you. Everything you want to know about the things right on copy ones with me. This is what was done. This is what I got accused of. This is what they were asking for.

And this is above the same 87.

Yeah. Know what it on top of. They didn't put this in. So this was the code went on. I'm not quite sure why we have to have an assistant assistant. I do. So that they've done that. Um you look we were seeing things we transfers looked at all. I've kind of seen the ones we're approving now and it looks different than what we reviewed last year. Yeah. Anyway, that's where we just so that you know that's the forecasted revenue for the general fund.

Okay. Now that is what we approved. That was our expenses. We actually we approved the budget from 176,000 in the black. Right. Well, they came back to that and we we had to move the parks out of the general fund back in to the general fund and HSA which that's fine. Yeah, that was we already did that one though. But then now you add these if we prove this tonight. There's where we are. Yeah. The thing of it is is that number right there doesn't include the additional labor cost, right?

Which I have no idea what the labor cost in 26 over 25 broken down by funds because the general fund covers about 60% of the labor cost. So that's where we are now. Maybe we'll get lucky and that number more than those. Did you look at this? Yeah, I got them all. This one though seems new. Huh? Seems different. Yeah. I don't know. That's what's fun. That's 112. Yeah. Look at the date on the top of it. Oh, okay. So, October 20 a long time ago.

Yeah. and she's mentioned it a couple times since now motion on transfer requests for the commissioners includes tableling if you want get more clarity on it.

The table's open for motion. Darren, you're talking about or Yeah, Darren. Yeah, Darren B. Thanks. Um, you're talking about this ordinance number two here. Is that what you're talking about? This one? Yeah. The one that's got the general fund 1138 and 112, right? Yeah.

Okay. Um, yeah. One thing I just, you know, for a uh another editorial comment, let me find it. First of all, when it comes to um I'm not picking on the I'm not picking on the coroner's office, but if you go back over the last couple years in 25 um you know, we allocated money for a number of different items. I have not gone back to find out what we allocated, what was spent, what wasn't spent. But the one thing that I did um was having an issue with was the 50 grand for the vehicle. So what I did is I uh got on the phone, got a hold of the health department and found out that for 24 and 25 that on average for those two years they had uh averaged 32 recoveries, I'm going to refer to it as a recovery for both 24 and 25. Year to date, we were in six. So, what I was looking at is I thought, well, wait a minute. You know, we got 50 grand for a vehicle for the corner office. How many miles are they going to drive a year? So, what I did is I used the average for this year, which they're averaging three a month. So I just said, "Okay, let's say we have 36 recoveries a year." And then I took 50 miles round trip because I can make it to each county line far less than 50 miles, right? But it's not 50 miles to get to Johnson County, Bartholomew County from Nashville. So I just use 50

miles. Multiply that times 36. I think it's 1,800 miles a year. Now, what I don't know is does the corner get the use of a vehicle 24 by7? Do they get a company vehicle? Shouldn't I don't know. You may and then you may just triple that for other meetings.

So, let's Okay, so let's round it up. Let's say just for argument sake, let's say you put 6,000 miles on. Well, if you do your research and to let a vehicle set and not drive it much is really not good for the vehicle. So then I called out and I was looking at just specifically from a you know kind of a quantitative you know money perspective and then I talked to another individual and I got their input on it and boy did I shift and they raised the issue of because what we've been told is this $50,000 number was a number and it was presented as if well we're just going to go out and buy a truck. And this individual brought up the dignity of a deceased. And then I sat there and thought about had I had to call 911, have the sheriff deputy come to my house to pick up my deceased wife on May the 30th and have the corner show up, throw the corpse in a black bag, and then have them out there getting ready to try to toss it into the back of a pickup truck. I be absolutely livid. So, so all of a sudden I went, well, wait a minute, 50 grand. I don't know. So, I didn't know anything about corner office. So, I reached out, got on the phone, and the lady was just really, she was very helpful. Her name was Lisa Barker, executive director with the Indiana State Corners Association, and I spoke with her, and then she emailed me uh and she went out, emailed me some documentation. Um, first of all, I guess the counties, uh, what they're doing is they're buying Suburbans andor D or

Dodge Durango or a van. Now, the challenge with the van, cargo vans, is highly unlikely we're going to be able to get one with a four-wheel drive. And I would think Brown County probably have to have four-wheel drive. Um, but then that she goes through you'd have to have a cot or stretcher or a stretcher system with secure mounting hardware, cot fastener, locking system that meet safety standards, roller or deck system to assist with loading and unloading, removable or fixed privacy curtains if using an SUV, interior compartment modifications for secure and dignified transport, biohazard containment supplies and PPE storage, but I I don't know what that says, "Emergency lighting is desired approved by county policy. All weather floor liner or washable washable interior surfaces." Well, I went online and it's pulled up the Chevy Suburban. And if you just go to the Chevy website, they those start at like 72 grand and then if you get the top of the line one, you know, 90 bumping 100 grand. So, I thought, okay, boy, that's a lot of money. you know, was going to I had to gasp for air there for a minute and then I thought, well, wait a minute. So, I reached out and had a conversation with Brad, the stock, and I asked Brad, I said, "Hey, have you got anything in your inventory that's got decent mileage on it? is maxed out on mileage that that could work for the corner to where we could then take that vehicle out of the sheriff's department, transfer it over to the coroner's office, and then we the council allocate enough money to replace that sheriff's vehicle because I thought, you know, if it was me personally, I'm not going to want to drop 70 or $80,000 on a vehicle for the coroner's office only to be driven 5 to 6,000 mi a here. To me

personally, it would make far more sense to roll vehicles out of the sheriff's department over to the corner within a certain mileage and then replace the vehicle that you're rolling out of the sheriff's department that you're moving to the corner because the sheriff's department should get the new vehicle.

The sheriff's department should get the new vehicle. Correct. So Brad, I circle back and he's waiting to get I guess he's got some new inventory coming in and as soon as he gets that, he'll have kind of an idea what he'll have. Um, so I don't know. I think the sheriff's department drive they've got some Durango and inventory and I don't know if the Durango's deep enough to, you know, slide everything in, but this lady told me that they're buying Durango and Suburbans is what they're buying for their corner offices. So that's my share. Thank you.

I'm going to read this. This is council bill number two. Uh I'm going to go down through everything we have. Additional appropriation ordinance uh 2026. We have a number on it yet.

Tonight is council bill number two. Whereas it has been determined that is now necessary to appropriate more money than was appropriated in the in the annual budget. Now therefore, section one be resolved by the county council of Brown County, Indiana for the expenditures of the taxing unit. The following additional sums of money are hereby appropriated out of the funds named and the per and the purposes specified subject to laws governing the same. General fund 10,000 from the 10,000 personal services line total 42,415 20,000 supplies total 88,000 but that has been removed so that is down that is zero and I'll get into details of this as we go other services and charges 150,822 for a total of 2001 or 201,27237 uh which consists of um the clerk had made a request for 8,000 but that is has been removed. She has found money to be able to cover the expenses that she needed for that. Uh commissioners 12,100 assists assistant salary 42,415 39600 line uh detention placement is that what de place was Julie Julie,

I'm sorry. The uh 39600 line was detention placement. Sure. Is there a juvenile detention budget? Okay. Is that yours? Okay. 27,000. Commission. And that's a necessary. It is. We only spend what we have to spend and and some years we only spend like you know 15 but there have been years where we spent a lot more too. So and any money we don't spend and you get back at the end. Yeah. What you sub on the side

the 38800 HR consultant 7,000 35,000 professional services 60,000 uh again commissioner line uh 3102 professional legal 51,000 and 35400 line mental health 5,822 uh Qat development fund capital outlays of 93,250. Remember what that was? 90. How much? 93,250.

I need to go downstairs to get my thing. Yeah, that's a what was that? What's your question, Darren? The capital outlays. I capital outlays for 93,000. I'm sure it's Yeah, it's it's there's line things combined. Corners vehicle 4260 line item for 50 grand. Oh, yeah. Corners combined the corner office refrigeration which I believe we bought. We should have bought the second one last year. Uh so I'm not quite sure. Okay. And so that's 42,100 line item for 30 grand. There's corners building. So I don't know why we need to spend another 11,000 on that. And then quarter items for $2,200 that I have.

Yeah, that's the 93 grand. Y after I said that, I looked down and saw was the corner building a generator. I Yeah, we did the generator last year. We did the generator and the actually they got a really good deal on the generator last year. Refrigerator and I thought we bought another cuz he only had a three bay or four bay and then wanted to buy another one. Is that what this was for? You see, I don't know. I don't it it's I don't know that would add up 90

because the other thing too I forgot to bring it but I had the form one for 2025 of see what we appropriated for 2025 what was spent what wasn't spent what did they buy what they didn't buy cuz last three or four my understanding historically we had one whale of a deal because the coroner had this deal with a funeral home county didn't spend hardly any money on this at all and then we lost that deal and then we had to build a building and Yeah. Jim, back to your vehicle idea. The corner's vehicle. Um, can you put a number on it today? What? The corner? Yeah. Swap out and a new vehicle.

Well, if here's the thing. I don't know if Brad has, you know, once he gets his new stuff coming in, right? And you know because I don't think what you know I don't know that this for starters I didn't you know I've not been over there to find out exactly what the current corner is currently driving. I think he had like a Dodge Caravan or something like that historically and on that front and I don't know if that vehicle's just if it's getting ready to blow well blow up or from what I recall the the issue was that it's not all the drive and we were in the middle winter and they were having to haul that makes sense. And so it does it did cross my mind that I'm going to go ahead and jinx this and say we're almost through winter,

right? I Well, yeah, it's snowing. But, you know, it's possible, you know, could we kick it to our next year? But I don't know. Just a thought. Yeah. Well, if if we can if we can work out if Brad has it, that's still the unknown. Are his Durango four-wheel drive? I would hope so. Yeah, I would think so. I mean, they're shar vehicles. Yeah. I wouldn't think they'd be like rear wheel drive, two wheel drive, rear wheel vehicles. I wouldn't want one.

So, I'm assuming they are. Yeah. So, if he's got a Dango that we could take and shove over the parks and wreck, No, they are not parks and wreck, but to the coroner's office, then we just simply go out and buy another new Durango for the sheriff's department. And in somebody's motion, we can we can we can make that line zero for now, pending. Yeah, we don't have to approve all of this. We can, like I said, the uh the postage for the clerk is is zero. Um and we can take out that 50,000 for the corner's vehicle if you'd like to.

Yeah. Well, and this is just again, this is just, you know, kind of a top of mind thing. um on these additional appropriations uh I mean if it's an emergency and somebody's going to die if we don't appropriate additional money okay then I'm good with that important and urgent right that oh my gosh this is has to be done we've got to deal with it right now because if we don't somebody else is going to die so but I don't want to cover this stuff here and there's nothing it's important but it's not urgent there's nothing on here that's urgent because because the other part of it is, you know, I'm what is this? 36 + 3 months, 39 months into this job. So, I'm still learning. Um, but if I think back to the fourth quarter of last year, we did an additional appropriation of $149,000 to the commissioners, did we not? I think we did. Okay. And in addition to that, um, I discovered that the commissioners went in and did, and it's it's their right to do it, but there was a $15,000 appropriation and a $10,000 appropriation for a couple of nonforprofits that they decided that they weren't going to pay because they weren't quite clear on the contract with these two nonforprofits. So they went in and took those monies and did an internal transfer and swept that money out of those two line items to be used someplace else. So you know that's $175,000. And then if I look in here today, you know, and I look at the request, you know, they're asking for another $87,415 above and beyond what was originally on the form one. And there's not there's no items in here that are, you know, dire straits except for possibly one. And the one item on here is this assistant

salary of $42,415. How have you been paying that with Donna's old pay? So, you're using 2025 line item? Yep. Okay. So, you got a little bit of money to cash flow for a while, but not very much. Not very long. Yeah. So if I look at this the you know the one that's probably the you know important and urgent is this 42415 for the commissioners administrative assistance assistant and the 27,000 for

and obviously yeah the detention placement it's the 27 grants we need to allocate that and uh yeah but the rest of them you know I don't see anything on here that's you crisis. Jim, does that 42? That does not include the benefits. No, I've got it in here if you want to see it, but it's it's you're almost $66,000 totally. So, it's not 42.

No, it's 60. It's 65. Say 655 by the time you add everything in. Assuming she's on Yeah. Yeah. So, you're It's really a $65,000 year expense is what it is. And I don't know if that position if the in the salary ordinance if that that that position has been scored based on the factory evaluation system or not. I believe it has. Was it scored on the FS? I believe it was. Okay.

Didn't sound go downstairs and get get it and check it. Commissioner in the audience, you want to speak to any of this?

Yeah.

Make sure your mic's on. We've had probably six or seven discussions on our request. We had a special session. I explained where the legal bills were coming from. You're all there. Uh you all supported the way ahead. Um we talked about that. Um uh the funds hadn't changed. The distribution was different. I don't think we'll end up in court, but we had to expend additional things on expertise when it came to EO. Anyway, a lot of different issues. So, um at a legitimate expense, we didn't ask for anything we don't need. um sat down, went over the spreadsheets, what we asked for, what was what was not approved, and and why we were going to do it. Then I met met with Gary and and the auditor. We went through it again and uh on these on these paper changes. Am I I'm wrong. And then we had another council meeting where a brief the same thing and none of this stuff came out. And then I think there's probably Darren, I think we met um and uh so I mean we we went into excruciating detail. It seems like this is the sixth or seventh time we've had this conversation. Now, if you're challenging any one thing, fine. Give me something in writing and then do I put something in writing back to you? I mean, I don't know what it takes. Anybody take notes? Um, we we've been through this. Been through it. Um, and so now, and then these different issues now, we've got new things that pop up. So, a little frustrating. You guys vote the way you want to vote. Um, but again, we've justified it. We've expensed. I've gave you documentation. I've talked to individual members and and now we're back like square zero. So don't understand it. Don't understand your process. If you want to change your process

so we can get out of this loop, I I'd be thrilled. I thought we've already done that. I don't know what more we can possibly do. Julie, how many meetings do we have or you had with Teresa on this thing? Teresa met with your attorney through the first request from October 20th of 2025.

Okay. And this is how long it's been going on. And then Teresa went to talk to your attorney to come up with this test. So we did it again. So I don't you you frustrated me. So that's all I've got to say on it. Um we're not asked for anything we don't need. Um and request that you approve the thing. And if you don't, then explain to me what the next step is in very excruciating detail, please, so we can counter any arguments that you may make. Thank you.

Thank you, Tim. So, so far on this we had the are we are we wanting to take the 50,000 for the corner vehicle out right now? take the cumat fund 1138 um amount down to 43 250 to me that seems reasonable if we're going to try to do a swap but we do need to if we do a swap we need to certainly um have a proper um fitting for the necessary things that would go into the vehicle

properly equipped. Right. Exactly, Darren. Um, I'll vote in the affirmative provided that all we do is we approve what was requested on the original 202641. I'm not I won't vote for anything above and beyond that. Okay. What was what was on the original? Well, I've got it all right here. Um, well, how does that So, and furthermore, what changes does that make to this? Huh? What changes does that make to this?

Well, yeah. First of all, the the, you know, 42415. Um, that's I'm I guess my question is why why do we need to spend $65,000 for an assistant for the commissioner's administrative assistant? That's basically what that position is. Now, just because they've done that, you know, in prior administrations, I really don't care. Okay? Because what I'm having if you know, for example, to the best of my knowledge, Knox County, which is Vincense, Indiana, they don't have any commissioners administrative assistant if my memory serves me correctly. So, I'm not quite sure why we need two full-time administrative assistants in the commissioner's office because that I mean that's so, you know, I'm I had a difficult time with that right out of the gate. Um, now with this, you know, the my item 396, the detention, the 27 grand, don't have a problem with proving that. We can put that back in there. the, you know, we can add back the 7 grand, uh, which was the line item 38800, which is the professional HR services cuz they originally requested 9,000. We adopted and approved two grand. So, we can give back the seven grand and approve the, you know, the seven grand. Um, give the 27 grand, uh, back to 30 line item 396. I guess was it security detention placement? the

juvenile detention.

Okay. Well, it says SEC detention placement. Uh and then professional services. Uh that was cut 40 grand. So fine, make them whole. They requested 67,000. So approve the take them back to what they originally requested, which is 67K. Uh professional legal, that's line item 35,000. Professional uh legal litigation is line item 30,102. um that was cut by 26 grand. So finally, make them whole, put that back and give them their 30 grand, which is what they originally requested. Uh and then this mental health 354, not quite sure um how that was changed, but anyway, uh it's $5,822 fine given the 58.22 for a total of 125 for the 2026 budget. Um I mean, I'm okay with that. Uh with regards to the QCAP fund 1138, um you know, I I'm not okay uh with those expenses. Uh there's nothing on here that's a crisis. And I think, you know, we as a council body probably ought to do a little bit more due diligence before we before we go in and rubber stamp, which is what, you know, I'm not going to rubber stamp something unless I really understand what's going on. Um because, you know, take our time on that. Make sure we make good decisions, you know, and take a look at what, you know, what what have we spent on the corner's office, you know, 24 25, you know, and then what do we have to spend for 26? because I'm hoping like we've spent a lot of money. We built a brand new building down there. I mean, there's been quite a bit. And not only that, you got a new you got a new corner. Hopefully, we'll be, you know, get elected come 2027, right? So, um, and as

far as the economic development, I it's $500, so who cares? But that's where I'm at with it. Um, that 500 is that was that was from Yeah, it's $500. Yeah, Melissa coined that. That's vaccines.

Yeah, it's 500 bucks. who cares. Um, but you're talking about a capital investment of $93,250. And then you keep in mind the other thing, you know, that I'm paying, you know, as I, you know, pitched my 9050 rule. Um, you know, when I go over here and look at the QCAP development fund, I'm not saying thing. um QCAP development fund uh you know the budget that we passed really based off their forecasted revenue and then the expenses because the KUCAP development fund total expenses for 2026 was $596,692 um right now based on you know again it's a forecasted revenue it's forecasted dispersements or receipts and dispersements so showed you know 83,000 uh budget surplus. So when I look at this, I'm going to say, okay, if we're going to allocate another 93250, then that brings that dollar amount down by, you know, 180 down to 90 grand. Now, we've got reserves projected 2026 cash balance of 856,000. So we're in pretty good shape on that QCA development fund. So because we've got, you know, it's showing 144%. So, we're we're good. You know, that fund we're, you know, in pretty good shape on. So, we can afford to go in and spend the 93 grand on the the corner's office. It's not that we don't have the money.

Right now, it's only 43 cuz we took out 43,000 because we're taking out the 50,000. Yeah. We'll have you guys do what you want to, but yeah, you could do you could cut the car out for right now. But because see, and then I Scott, I think you asked the question mentally to, you know, replace because you're going to turn right around and replace, you're going to have to buy a new vehicle out of the cumat for the sheriff's department, right? So then they can take that vehicle and then transfer it to the corners. Well, the commissioners will because the commissioners own everything. The commissioners will have to do that. Um, you know, so I I knew Durango cuz they were buying them out of what? Salem. Was it Jimmy John's or that's the

That's a subway. That's a Subway guy. Yeah. Yeah. John Jim Jones. John Jones. Down in Salem, I think. Yeah. Not anymore. You're not buying them there anymore.

Yeah. So, yeah. But, you know, it may be 60, you know, 60 million or so probably somewhere in that neighborhood to replace it. So, but do you do that or do you go ahead and and I guess here's the other question on the vehicle? It's, you know, what in the world are you going to buy for 50 grand? I mean, you can't buy an entry- level subcompact for 25,000 a car. So, so it it's and I would bet it's rather if we're going to spend the money, do it right, replace the vehicle in the sheriff's department, spend a little bit more money and then provided they've got one. If not, then you know, then we'll have to circle back. Um, I mean, unless the corner's vehicle is collapsed and it won't start and battery's dead and, you know, it pulls to the left really hard or, you know, I don't know. And so,

okay, Darren.

Yeah. I want to address a couple points on the staffing. Um the guidance for 2025 was to stick with uh or 2026 was stick with kind of what you had in 2025. We had uh two assistants in the commissioner's office for couple years 2 three years. Uh we re-engineered both positions. Uh Teresa's position became a commissioner specialist administrative specialist. We re-engineered that job description. We split uh some of the duties between us and the auditor. The other one was the the idea of g whiz, let's have a shared resource uh for a person. And uh so I think Jim, you probably threw that up with one of those meetings about having a shared resource. And so we did that. Uh and so we just basically changed the two positions that we had redid the thing. So both positions are needed. Um now we're we spend weeks on our budget. Um we spend weeks on our budget. It's blown up. We've never known about all the changes. You didn't understand why we did what we were doing. You didn't understand the situation we were in that required the amount of money that we're requesting. And we could have an executive session. You want to go a little more detail on item by item by item on the issues that we're trying to catch up with, trying to address. It requires resources to do it. It requires expertise to do it. And we're addressing those things. Pretty serious uh kind of issues. We keep finding new things. So what we ask for is is what we need. It's and and and I don't appreciate this last minute gwiz. Uh we we've had these issues. We've had these discussions. Um and again, we didn't ask for anything. We that that we don't we don't need and and we hope we're conservative and we were conservative on what we asked for. On the corner thing, I've lost track cuz we've had these meetings before. Corner's got a cooling unit that's like back from 2008 and I don't think he'd get parts for it now. So that was the

issue on one of those things that he's asking for. Um and uh so so far we're lucky. I guess it's not urgent because it hadn't blown blown off yet and we're freezing around people. But but that's the kind of money asked for. We can't get parts for this this unit. So that's what that was. Um and then the whole thing on the cars, we talked and and found the same kind of suggestions when it came to a corner vehicle. And and then the question is why do you need a new one? So it's like uh so he I think was Mike was going to look into different things. So if you want to cut the 50,000 do a shift with the sheriff fun um that gives him money he needs. We address the thing you don't want to put them in a back of a pickup truck that was never the intent never mentioned um never addressed and Mike brought up the same thing. You're not going to do that. Um and so don't know where where that came from but again these conversations guys it's not new. We've had these discussions. I've explained it to you. I mean, I'll be glad to do it again if you want to have another session again, but but we've explained that. So, it's a little frustrating getting this last minute g whiz um make these kinds of changes. We we did this. We did our due diligence. You did your due diligence. You asked, you queried. We responded. And again, between Teresa and the auditor and the attorney, they went through again also to give you specifically what those changes are. So, just appreciate if you just Let's stick with what we've asked.

Thank you. She's already on the original ordinance as a floater. It wasn't in the budget. 42 years. It was not in the budget. Be in the budget. Right here is the budget. This supersedes the budget. Would you like to call the state? This is the salary ordinance.

Okay. I'm going to say this. I'm going to say it one time and one time only. I expect, you know, I'm assuming that all the elected officials in this county do their job uh to the best of their ability and I'm assuming that all the elected officials in this county are extremely conscientious of what they do. Don't expect anything less from me. I don't. Okay. My

I had to sit down and create this myself. All right. A one-page report that lays it all out, makes it easy to understand. All right. So, I've got to do my due diligence.

I have a responsibility. The county council is the only seven member board over the entire fiscal policy of the county. Period. Okay. and we've got all 26 departments coming in and everybody wants more money. I get that and I appreciate that because if I were a department elected official, I would do the same thing. So, I'm just asking questions trying to do my due diligence. As I said, there's nothing on here that's important and urgent

that she was voted on. So, I don't want to bring up the past, you know, and I won't, but you know, since November the 19th to this point, it's not been a real warm and fuzzy experience. All right. Okay. So, what we have so far on this Taking out the 8,000 that the clerk does not need anymore, we have a total on the general fund 1,00 of $193,237 requested. Taking out the 50,000 for the vehicle from the CUN cap fund, we had instead of 93,250, we have a total of 43,250 and the 500 from the economic development fund for the vaccine availability for employees. Anybody want to make a motion to approve this or any part of it? for a minute approval of it.

So, one thing I want to make sure we get right is there's question about whether we've already approved the refrigeration and the generator which I think is the 30 and the 11 for the corner. I thought we did, maybe we didn't. I mean, Julie, do you if we did then we don't want to do it again. But the refrigerator, the one of the units has failed to do what it's supposed to do. That's why they're asking for another one because um which you're all aware of, but I don't really want to discussed with us.

But I thought we already funded it. Yeah, that was my question. Did we fund it already? It seems like we did, but I know we talked about it. I don't recall a vote on it, but I can look through the minutes. Just vote on it. Yeah, maybe we go ahead and do it just to be safe. You don't need it. Yeah, if you don't need it, don't do it. And then the 11 was the generator, right? If I No, the generator was done last year. Yeah, you've got been there for quite a while. Generator's been taken care of. Okay. We just They have a failing refrigeration unit.

So, I think we need the 30 So that would be 30 out of the Q cap. That' be 50 out of the 50. What? Why is it Is it Are they asking 50 for refrigeration or thought it was 30 for some reason? They're asking for 93,000. Right. If we take the 50,000 up for the vehicle that that leaves them asking for

let's tell you what if I'm good with just let's postpone the 50 for the time being knowing that we're going to have to circle back the vehicle. Right. The vehicle. Yeah. Approve the other three items. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

And then you guys And then you guys, you know, and then you guys do whatever you want as far as the general fund is concerned. So why don't you do your your I mean I Jim you had a a roll of things that you were prepared to be okay with and then plus that that corners part. Um I don't know Mr. President if you want him to run through that for us or how you want to do this. Be nice to get it done though. Either way. Yeah. I mean, here here's, you know, my proposal set up with this. We don't need to make this complicated. It doesn't need to be adversarial. I brought up the the 149,000 and the 25,000 from the fourth quarter of last year. Um because we can we can forecast our expenses, we can forecast our revenues, but the reality of it is is the commissioners have no idea what's going to show up and what's going to happen that's going to cost them more money. And what I what I'm assuming is is that, you know, we can go in, for example, professional services line 35,000. Uh they asked for 67 grand. So, we can give them 67 grand. We can give them 30 grand for the professional uh legal litigation. We can give them the extra 58.22 for the mental health. Don't have a problem with that. We can give them the 7 grand for the HR services. Fine. Put the hundred grand back into their budget. All right. But knowing that, you know, I guess, you know, the reality is this is that if they get backed up against the wall

and they end up, you know, let's say for example, uh, professional legal, well, let me give you an example. We put in, I believe, in the election board's budget, $42,000 for 2026 for legal fees to defend against a district court lawsuit that's currently pending against the election board. Now, if that lawsuit continues on and it ends up costing the election board $80,000, then we really won't have any choice, will we? We'll have to do an additional appropriation to the election board for another 38 grand because at 350 bucks a billable hour,

you know, if you got to pay the bill, you got to pay the bill. There's nothing you can do about it, right?

Okay. So, and in and in that situation, we all know they have to come in and they have to ask for an additional appropriation. Julie's got to get it approved by the DGF, right? We got to run an advertisement, got to do an ordinance, and then we approve it. Right? So that's for the election board. Same thing's going to hold true for professional legal litigation in the commissioner's budget, line item 30,102. So, I'm okay with going ahead and approving what they requested on the original form one, but giving them another 20 grand above and beyond, you know, because they're asking for like a 935,000. They originally requested 67 grand. We cut 40 grand out of it, gave them 27. So instead of them coming back and asking, you know, hey, give me back my my 40,000, they bumped it and said, no, we want another 20,000 above and beyond that. So they're actually asking for $45,000 above and beyond what they originally submitted with the 41s on the two line items, 35,000 and 3102. That I have a problem with. Okay. Because you know, if you government

Okay. So, if we give them 40,000 instead of the 60,000 for the Yeah, we just give them back professional services. You're you're good with Yeah, you're good with that. I'm good. Yeah, I've got it right here laid out if you want to look at this. All right. Okay. Yeah, I'm good with that. What we need? I'm good with that. And I'm all right with that. And then take cut the vehicle out. Uh, and then just to prove the dumb thing and knowing that, you know, probability is they'll probably be back up here later in the year asking for another couple hundred,000.

That's the way the system works, right? That would that would give us a total from the general fund of 173 237 and a total from cap of 43,250 and a total from economic development of 500. Now are you are you going to approve the 42415 for the commissioner's assistant? And Julie, I understand what you're saying. It's in the salary ordinance, but we don't have to fund it either. No, you don't. Thank you. So 173 is that 237 not the assistant.

I understand the history of that position. I understand the history where that person came from. I understand the whole history. Jim, what's your total because we need to get on the same literal page here. Okay. Appropriation. All right. Darren, let's Are you going to walk Darren? Let's just go through. So, you got general fund uh personal services 42415. Yes. Okay. So, I don't like being backed up into a corner, but you know. So, is everybody all in favor of doing the 42415? Well, it sounds like it's not 42415. No, it's $65,000. So, I mean, if we're going to do it, it needs to be correct.

Well, but now hang on a minute. Salary. the other stuff. Yeah, we can't do it that way because you got is already covered in other lines. Whether or not it's covered or not, that's a different story. But um so Scott, we can just approve the 42415 because that's the actually it's not 42 Julie. It's really not 42415 because she's this is March. This is soon to be the end of March. Have you got the current enough money and line item for the prior administrative assistant to cover till the end of the March? I'll check 42. So you could do 467. Pardon me. It's actually 40 4231467.

Okay. But what I'm saying is this is this is the end of March. So it's really not we got a program at it till the end of December. We're not programing because she's been paid out of some she's been paid out item for the previous administrative assistant that left back in May of 2025. Yeah. For this year. Correct. When she started, right, for the commissioners. She's been working for the commissioners for a while now because line items, those are non-reverting or reverting. They don't go back. They're nonreverting, right? Okay. Yeah. So, all right. Well, put that 42415. All right. The next one is supplies, right? Um,

that's zeroed out. Yeah, that's zeroed out. And then we got 3000 series line items, right? Mhm. All right. So, here we go. I mean, I've got it right here. I mean, I can give you a copy of this if you want it. I show you know exactly. So, hang on a minute. See, she's got all these bundled in here. Oh, I see what you're doing. 42. Okay. We're going to give the 27K back to the detention. Mhm. Okay. HR consultant. We're going to give them their seven grand. Mhm. professional services, which is the 35,000, right? Okay. We're not giving them 60, but we're going to give them 40.

Okay. And then professional legal, um, right down here, we're going to, they ask for 30, we cut it 20. We're going to give them 26 grand, not 51,000. Okay. And then mental health, that's the 5822. Just leave that alone. Got it. Yeah, but I think we're going to need Well, what do you think, Darren? Do you need We need it on this sheet. We scratch and up here. We approve up there. Make a note here. What we put this down to? As long as that's what is that a motion?

Well, well, to move this along, if you want me to make a motion, I'll make a motion. Yeah. Well, you I think you should do a motion and detail. And do you have this same sheet he's looking at? Yeah, he's Yeah, I've got it right here. Okay. Make it motion in the form of that. Write the row the totals per line item and then we get it on the record and if you guys Sy's going to have to take good notes and probably have to listen to this again 30 times to get it. So, let's just if you Jim, if you could just detail it and then we'll get it right. Yeah. I didn't really want to have to think tonight, but Yeah. Yeah. knew the job was dangerous when you took it. Yeah, right. All right. Um Sandy, are you ready? Have you got

follow me along here?

So, we got line item. This is in the general fund 12,100 line item for 42415. That's this. That's the salary for the administrative assistant assistant. Um, we've got the detention placement. Um, 396 is the line item and that's 27,000. Got it. We've got line item 38800, which is the HR consultant. That's seven grand. Then we have line 35,000, professional services, and currently that's at 60, but we're going to reduce that back to 40,000. Okay. And then line item 30,102, which is professional legal, which is currently showing up at 41,000, is going, excuse me, let me strike that 51,000. Professional legal line item 30102 at 51K, that will be now 26,000.

Okay. And so, oh, and then you got mental health, which is 35,400 and that's 5822. Okay. Say that one again. The line number. Uh, yeah. Line item is 35,400. So, you want me to add those up? Because if I add those up, that should equal $100,000 plus the 425. So that should be $142,415, not 2011237 plus the 55 55022 for

Yeah, I've got that in there. Oh, no, I don't. Yeah, right. I'm sorry. 5,82. Yes. Yes. I'll just I'll add it up. 105 105 uh 822, right? Plus the 42415. I don't have the 42415. That's that's all coming out of the general fund. No, that's up here on personal services. It's the top. It's coming out of the general fund. But he's doing a total general. This is 7 by8. Okay. You can worry about that later. Okay. This is coming out of the general fund. It's 148237. 148 237. Jim,

what did you say on the on the mental health? Oh, mental health is 5822. Thank you. Yeah. And I can give you a copy of the sheet I've got if you want. It's kind of laid it all out, right? Simple, right? Okay. Yeah. And then then from there, we just cut out the line item out of the team cap development 1138 and we reduce that 93250 by 50 grand, which is line item. You ready? Mhm.

40,260. So 40,260 is going to be zeroed out. which is going to reduce the Q cap down to from 93 250 down to 43 250 because we know we're going to have to circle back later down the road on that on that that issues, you know, that's we'll have to deal with that at some time in the future. Okay. And then the economic problem 112 just stays like it is. It's $500. I think we have enough money to bring that So that's your So you want

Yeah. What I just said, I don't want to repeat that. Okay. That's your motion. So all those YouTube people out there listening, that's my motion. Second. Scott seconded that. Okay. Scott. We have a motion to accept council bill number two. with a total of the general fund line up above at 140 148,237. Correct?

Yeah. and a total of the King Cap Development Fund of 43,250. Correct.

And a total of the economic development fund of the $500 for the vaccines. Yes. Mhm. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? I a roll call. Opposed. Gary. Oh, sorry. Opposed. Judy. No. I'm sorry. I'm opposed. Scott, yes. Patrick, yes. Joel, yes. Jim, let me see. Yes. Wait a minute. Did you

I was I did not say the posed on my roll call. I was calling for anybody who was opposed. Oh, okay. I'm glad you said. Yeah. So, what do you say? I mean, yes. Okay. Got it.

I was I was talking addressing something else when you asked that. So, my question got transposed into my answer. Okay, we got something fast. Yeah.

While you're doing that, can we move community corrections up? They've got a quick pass. Let's get the mic. Yeah, that was Yes, I was planning on doing that. The community corrections and if anybody needs to wants to look at it, they do have support letters. just wanted us to sign that. Correct.

Yes. So, good evening. Um, so my name is Mallerie Rockwell. For those who don't know me, I'm the director of community corrections for Brown County Court Services. Um, so I had sent Darren and Julie a form letter of support that I've drafted. Um, we are in the process of writing our 2027 grants that are due on April 1st. Um, in years past, I've only asked for a letter of support from the board of commissioners as I have to have their approval um, per statute. However, um, for 2027, the grant allocation money from the state has dwindled even more. Um, we, uh, they only have 52.9 million to disperse for 2027 for community corrections agencies. Um whereas in 2025 they had roughly 72.9 million. So we they've cut funding significantly over the last two years. Um that being said um we are self-funded. We don't ask for any financial um budget or anything from the council. um we are funded through our grants and through our um project income which is from our uh pro program user fees. Um so in this the reason we have decided to do this and Scott sits on the community corrections advisory board and we discussed it at our last board meeting um we while the county doesn't provide us a monetary budget um uh they do provide many inind services such as you know the an office space utilities IT services the auditor um many different things that I've listed I've I've given examples of um in this letter that um I want to be able to submit with our grant to show that the county is supportive of the program even though there is not a budget to go along with it from the county general fund.

Um earlier we were talking about that 27,000. So that that whatever that is that I have to look it up but I'm not going to. Yes. So that's for juvenile detention. So that is for um that comes from that's paid out of the commissioner budget, but it's for juveniles that are detained. Um pre-adjudication um for that's fine. What community your community corrections? Correct. Okay. Cuz I've never seen a 401 and it appears that hopefully I'll never see a 401 there's enough money coming from the state though. Correct.

That is my goal. Yes. If the state for something happens at the state level, it could be possible to where the county would have to fund the community corrections. Is that correct? We could come and ask, right? Okay. If that were to happen, I mean, what what's it cost to run your department a year? 250 300 grand. Um, my grant award for the last three years has been 242,000 from the state. Um, and then the my operating cost outside of that um, varies based on staff turnover, needs, if we have to buy a vehicle. So, I usually budget roughly anywhere from $300 to $350,000.

Okay. Okay. What's the probability? I mean, none of us can predict the future. What's the probability in the culture at the state house of going forward in the next, you know, not 26, but maybe 27, 28, 29, 30? Could it could we likely find ourselves in a position where we'd have to pick up that 350 grand a year cost for community corrections? Um I cannot speak for the legislators. I can never predict what they ask.

Yeah. So, um I can say that the um Indiana assoc uh the Indiana Association of Community Corrections um that they are working with um different lobbyists and different legislators to um try to increase that funding and to look at, you know, making sure that DOC is stewarding that money appropriately. Um, and so that way hopefully we do not have a situation that we're that a lot of counties are in of fearing a significant cut for 2027. Um, so that's a you said DOC Department of Corrections. Yes, the Department of Corrections is who? That's that's where it comes from. The grant administrator is Yeah. All right. So, um,

is the Department of Corrections they get federal money as well? Do you know? I do not know. Ours comes from the state. No, I don't. But I didn't know if the state got federal money that comes in. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure on that. Um, but you know, I I think that the goal is that we won't have to come and ask the council. Um, however, you know, as things have been trajectory of things is the grant funding at the state has whittleled um and is going is becoming significantly less. Um, I don't know that that will continue. I I can't Yeah, we just don't know.

The appropriation for the by the for each year has remained the same, but the grant out money allocation has dwindled. So, they've not provided a great explanation as to why. Um, but I know that there are different um associations that are actively pursuing to try to with different legislators to increase that. Thank you. All right. Want a motion? All right. Yeah. Take a motion on Yeah. take a motion on on the on your support letter. I move we approve the support letter wholeheartedly and uh wish them luck and pick that up. We're all signed if this proves if this moves. Yeah. There's a motion. So yeah. Yeah. I have a motion to approve. Motion to approve it.

No, we have a motion. Oh, I'll second it. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Any opposed? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry it took so long. All right, if you don't mind, I'll I'll I'll do a kickoff for this. Okay, just a moment. We also have C council bill number three which was the which was added to the agenda that is for the prosecutors

prosecutor's office the victim advocate removing they are asking for me just read it yeah sure

okay bill number three a resolution transfer monies from the prosecutor infraction deferral fund budget of Brown County Indiana now be it resolved by account council of Brown County Indiana that for the expenses of the county government in the year 2026. The following sums of money are hereby transferred out and set apart out of specific funds here in named for the specific purpose here and named and specified all subject to laws of state of Indiana Governor Hussein. Such sums herein shall be held to include expenditures authorized be made during the year 2026 unless otherwise expressly stipulated and provided by the law. Section two that for the said fiscal period of 2026 there's hereby transferred from the prosecutor infraction deferral fund budget of Brown County Indiana the following from 2400 um 11 the 11,413 line victim's advocate of $5,000 to 8312 11,123 line victim's advocate a a $5,000. Section three, the transfer of funds is made in order to pay the necessary expenses for fiscal year 2026. Section four, this resolution shall be effective in full force from and after its passage. All as all is by law provided this uh by county council on 16th day of March 2026.

Okay. Um, Julie. Yes, sir. I don't know what you read there, Darren, but um I didn't comprehend the word. No. Okay. Um, are these these two funds that I think I had a conversation with Ted Adams about? These are these are the two funds that we getting grant money that they've been applying for grants. They've been using those two federal grant funds to cover salaries within this office. 8312 is one. Okay. Yeah. And I I've got I don't think I have it with me cuz I got with Ted on this and one is 96 actually.

So So yeah. So what we're doing is this is just cleaning those up and getting rid of the taking money out of the general fund to clean them up. No, I think he's actually using that as a because this is a Didn't you tell didn't you say it's 8212 that you're that he's putting that in? It's not 8312. 8312, but it's actually I think it's the county's portion or what do you call it? The county match is $5,000. And I think that's Oh, so this is just an ordinance to pull five grand out of the general fund to put in. It's out of You're pulling it out of 24,400. It's out of Jim. It's out of a defraction deferral.

I'm not seeing this. I mean, I'm not I don't have any idea what this is. Okay. So, it's 10. So, all we're doing is a line item transfer. Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. All right. I move. That's what I said. It was line item transfer. Yeah. Got it. All right. So, this is no big deal. I move we approve council bill number three. Second. Anybody? I'll second it. All right. We have a motion to second on council bill number two. raise your three. All right. Council bill number three. All in favor? I. All opposed. Do a roll call. Yes. Judy, yes. Scott, yes. Patrick, yes.

Joel, yes. Jim, yes. All right. All right. So hard to tell. Sign it. Got two things. Okay. Um. Yep. That would be you for the budget timeline and it concerns your process. So we're going to um there's another document you have that are corrective actions.

Corrective action plans for the for number. Okay. So, this is a this is kind of a critical document and I don't know that we you want to go through it in detail, but even though we've got a lot of red numbers and adjustments, it represents a lot of progress. Yeah. Julie, I got a qualifying question. Julie, last summer in 25, we had Reed Financial with Caitlyn Schaefer. We had a four-way conversation call. We did. Is that what this is? No. Something different. Well, it's kind of like that, but yeah. So, most of the ones that we talked with Caitlyn about, we've gotten taken care of.

So, these are the ones when I was doing my AFR that we're still in the red. This is what we're going to do to correct. Okay. Got it. So, so when you look at when you look at the funds, there's a when she talks about the AFR, there's a cash and investment statement on there. And that cash and investment to me is each line. Each fund is a checkbook. There are some restrictions on checkbooks. There are others that don't have restrictions. Is your mic on? I'm not I am so sorry. Okay. Golly, I hate to repeat myself. Do you hear? No, you're

okay. So, um, in the AFR, which you that you referenced, it's the state form that summarizes all of our funds and all of our receipts and dispersements. a summary form that's published in gateway every year, right? Financial report, annual financial report. Yep. Know what it is. Gateway 52. So, um, so we started taking a look at this and and as a prep for the budget process.

Hang on. So as a as a as a prep for the budget process. So we got two big things going. We got the budget process going and we've also got utilization of our computer system which was installed in 2021 and we start effectively using it for reports. talking about LA.

Yes, correct. And so, uh, what this represents is part of what's happening. And we're going through all of the funds and we're trying to correct the funds so that you've got a good baseline for the 2026 budget, right? And so you don't have any surprises. So, this is progress. So, if we did a fund report, would the fund report show these all in red? It it depends on if they've been, you know, if you got a a million dollars in and one of these under you wouldn't see the individual lines. These were 2025. At the end of 2025, that's what was in.

But so in 2025, if we would have done a fund report, we would have seen these in red. Um if you look at and I'm familiar with the 911. I haven't looked at every one of them. The 911 went to red this year, which is why we flaged it. We said, "Why is this going to red?" I guess I'm jumping to I'd like to see a fund report so we can start to see these things right before we get to the end of the year. Anyway, continue.

So, just just example, this is kind of hard. Uh it's a little small. I I took 5 years of the funds receipts and dispersements and I posted them so that I could see trends. And as we went through, right, there's also an end beginning and ending balance. So, as we went through, we go down here, we noticed some of the items were written. Okay. Um, and since this report was ran at the uh Julie has gone in and cleaned up several several items. Okay. I'm going to emphasize this is not an easy job. These problems have been going on for a long long long time, right? So, we're trying to fix it as we roll out WOW and as we roll out the new budget process. Okay. So, um you want to talk more about this and then we go back we can go back to the budget or do you want to go into the budget?

Do you do you have any questions or No, not really. Here understand. Okay. So, let's go into the budget process. So, um, just just for everybody quick real quick that the the ARPA fund is the one that catches my attention cuz we've got a spending deadline on that. Well, the ARPA fund was supposed to be the one used for that to begin with and it was not. So, it's still in there, right? But we have already um the state's already signed off for us. So, and that's a salary replacement, right? Okay. Okay.

And you know, this gives you an idea. A lot of these funds I think we can clean up. They've got small dollar amounts. We'll probably clean it up in the budget process, but that leads into the budget process. So, let's talk about what we did with the budget process is we went to the state and we looked for the state guidelines on doing budgets, the timeline and the guidelines high level. Then um Gary had gone in and and went with had uh uh RED prepare a budget timeline for us, right? And so we went ahead and used that and then we took Julie's budget timeline and then we put the put them all together and said, "Okay, what's the task list and what's the timeline we have to follow?" So you can see here um that as you go through each 51 is when the Indiana state and I'm not going to go through every single one of them but the process from here now is to engage somebody on council to work directly to make sure they understand each piece of this. And anybody want the screen turned sideways so you can see it better.

Yeah, great. Oh, that's green. I was going to say I don't know how to turn it sideways, but okay. So, as we go through, these are the critical deadlines. And once somebody on the council has gone through it with Julie and understands, then you start scheduling your meetings. And so you have a living document um that goes through and and this is this is something I used instead of the Microsoft Gant charts uh cuz it's easier. So if we get in here and for example we get to you know we get to May 15th and we're off plan real easy to communicate that we're off plan and oh by the way um this is the this is off plan. Okay. and then uh off plan without a recovery date. So we can go in here and now we can move back and go uh all right now we're moving this date. The advantage this gives you is it you once all these are filled in and we don't have them filled in because the dates aren't set. It gives you whether something's going to have to be pulled up or pushed or how critical it is. So it goes through every uh step of the budget process. All right. And it comes down to um the the statutory delivery date. All right. And so from this, the next step is to go through and make sure everybody understands what each of these pieces mean and then set the council dates for reviews. Make sense? Okay. Now, Jim, I think I think uh I heard something you I you know, I did not spell that correctly, but I heard from you when you were

asking her if we might have to pick up the funding for their department. That goes under options and exposure. Yeah, whatever. It's just right right now,

but it should be on one of our exposures. We should be aware of it as we do the budget process. So what we're doing starting uh also tomorrow is we're starting with the highway department and we're working with the highway department on two things. One, what reports they are going to need and get out of allow. Two, reconciling all of their funds and then three, preparing them to to uh submit a budget with the detail you guys would expect on a normal case. So we decided the highway department because it's a big number. Um, and we also have a very, um, willing operations staff there who wants to make sure that we do a very solid job with, uh, with the budget this year.

Okay. Any questions? Nothing. Yeah. Could you scroll down a little bit? Correct. Okay. Well, the one thing I don't see on here, unless I'm missing it, and it's it's something I think the council needs to go through is how we want to department heads this year when it's on. I didn't see it. I'm sorry, Scott. Down to our bud our budget hearings, our three-day budget hearings.

I saw that as you scrolled through it. So I guess my point is, you know, I think this is a a great a lot of this stuff is is probably the council doesn't need to like know the details of what the auditor is doing in certain forms and such in every case. But if we focus on the council's role and how we do our work and the council talks and decides what we want to do, how we want to do it, when we want to do it. And I think, you know, we're clearly shifting from our process last year into a very new process this year. Council's very interested in in those changes and improvements. And so I think at our next work session, we should go through the council items. And then Julie will be there and she could say, "Hey, I need you guys to do that quicker." And you probably already done some of that work, but there may be some things we want to add or situate here, you know, having not had a chance to talk about it or review it yet as a full council that that we can make some some further improvements to it. And I think, you know, we're already in March.

Yep, we are. Yeah, Scott, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to do another disclosure here. Um, so I'm doing my own personal work and what's extremely important to me is my core principles and what my what I value and establishing boundaries. Um, you know, at the last special session meeting, I did a disclosure of my 9050 rule. Ed, you and I talked about the 9050 rule. Uh, so the lens that I want to look at through everything that we do is going to be through that 9050 rule. And and say we incorporate the options of exposures into that.

Well, that's fine. But I'm just that's the goal. All right. And you know, we can look go out to 2030, 2031, 2032 is the years, right? But Scott, I'm going to I'm going to I wrote this for myself earlier today just for my own clarity. As a county councilman entrusted by statute with responsibility for all fiscal fiscal matters, I have an obligation to maintain subject matter expertise in these areas. Accordingly, I will refrain. I'm just going to stop right there because the rest of it is for me. Uh but as a county councilman, I'm entrusted by state statute with responsibility for all fiscal matters. I have an obligation to maintain subject matter expertise in these areas. Um and then in addition to that, uh will continue conducting my discovery work with objectivity, rational analysis, and a firm commitment to verifiable facts. I, and I'm speaking for myself, I as a councilman have a responsibility to the taxpayers because that's who hired me. Um and especially when Ed when it comes to the our labor cost and this fees factored evaluation that is my number one concern prior to July 1 of 20 before the form one's hit that you know and I want to do my own personal work to make sure I do everything I can to internalize that factor evaluation system make sure I understand what it's going to cost to try to implement that system because we cannot afford to implement that system all in one fell swoop. It's going to take a few years to try to do it and it's going to be somewhat expensive. So that is to me the big rock for their budget for 2027 is really that those labor costs, you know, and then second

to that is the the you know those employee benefits on top of that. Okay. And I hope through the work that you're doing that you can go through and find out that we're spending way too much money on toilet paper. You remember the story? Okay. So, so what factor? Do you know the word, Jim? Yeah, it's the factory evaluation system, right? I'm turning sideways. Yeah. Okay. So that to me is that to me is a big exposure.

Oh, it's huge. It's huge. It's huge. Yeah. And it's and I think it's absolutely critical that we you know at least my goal is to internalize that system and know that system forwards, backwards, and sideways and understand the cost comparable from 25, 26, and what kind of 27. And so how because here's the issue with that system is what they've done is just think you got 2025 pay rates and then what WIS Magnet Irwin and Sheilian have done is they've gone outside to several counties and they've they've come up with a term called 50% midpoint.

Okay. So they've gone and evaluated all the different job positions within county government and they've looked at all the different wage bases with all these various different counties and they've come up with this 50% external and the challenge with that 50% external and just to give you an example is that if you got somebody at $20 an hour but you got to get them to 25. Well, if you use a 3% cola mindset, that's your paradigm. You're think, well, we'll just do 3% every year. Yep. Takes 8 years to get them there. Yeah. And then, you know, now the challenge with that is you taking 8 years to get them there. But that 3%, you didn't adjust the 3% for inflation. Correct. Right.

So, you're back in the same spot.

You're back in Spain. Yeah. So, that's the story problem. And that story problem, we have to look at it not only as at a departmental level, but we've got to drill down in the weeds on every one of those employees. And each one of those departments, we have to make certain that those positions are categorized. Nobody's made any errors. Then we can double check and make sure those they're categorized correctly, right? And then we got to back in and figure out how to get them to that 50% midpoint. How how do we do that? How do we afford to do that? And then the other thing we've got to do is we've got to take those positions because not every department is funded with um uh the general fund. Yeah. So like the health departments 1159 1160 and then as you know the highway department's got I think there's 11 funds because you got NBH restricted NBH nonrestricted 1169 street. So, some of that payroll comes out of those 11 funds and that that h that work has to be finished by the end of June.

Okay. Okay. Um, and that's going to take a lot of time and energy. So, Okay. So, there's there's one other piece. Scott, I I would like to add just a little something to what you said. I absolutely agree with you. the council has to know um what it is responsible for when it's responsible and I'm going to add how to check and how to check that it's gotten done right because if if and I'm not saying this is going to happen if all of a sudden she gets way behind you're not going to be able to recover

right and and and with these two at so um there's one other piece on this I want to talk about as we get the do as we get the uh the items laid out with a with a solid timeline and everybody's okay with the timeline solid timeline. Um, we need to do one more step and that step is to to put names on each of the tasks. And and this is this to me I've never did a project nor would I ever sign off on a project if we didn't have this document. It's an engineering document. Um I've worked with a lot of engineers but it's an engineering document that I've seen prevent failures and it got incorporated after product launch after product launch or all kinds of problems a right but it basically says who is accountable for getting it done who is responsible for getting it done and sometimes person could be accountable and responsible who needs to be informed and who needs to be consulted. So for example, if we go through this exercise right and we come up with a number when wouldn't every one of you should be consulted right before an approval is is happens. So this is this comes to be one of the most difficult parts of any planning process. But if you don't do this, you really run the risk of of happening. And and and I use one example, you know, like planning an event, right? If you don't if you have an event that's outdoors, if you don't assign a specific person to bringing tables, you get to the day of the event, you find out nobody's ordered tables and you're in big trouble, right? And and that's a simplistic example, but it gets way more complex if you don't do that. So, from from the council session, the next council session you guys meet, I'll

probably be absent from that one. Um, but then after you guys go through, make sure you got everything set your timeline. I'd like to be part of the uh the racy creation. So, do you have training on how to her cats? Yeah, it's called a racy. I I I'm I know you're being physicious. I'm not. Uh this this is and Julie is you hire him in the auditor's office for you know just this year. She's trying she's trying to throw me out but that's okay. So the other the other thing we need to uh do and I think remind me I know we approved our attorney contract at the last meeting. Remind me if we did our financial consultant contract at the last meeting.

No, we did not. Okay. So we need to get that moving. Uh I I have our attorney's contract here. Okay. We did approve. We Yeah, we did that up to it's the financial one that we need to get on board because we're already in March. We have not done I thought we did an up to contract for that. We didn't for Rei. Yes. I thought we did. We did. Yeah, we did. So actually Scott, my understanding of the contract is the contract with Rei just kind of runs in perpetuity until either they cancel it or we cancel it. So there's really nothing to really renew. Is it based on ours? Uh yeah, it's not really Well, I think we put a cap on it. I thought we did.

Scott, we could we could control that, you know, and and I think with the control and and you're the control guy. Um, but you know, the only one the only one that can rack up billable hours, okay, is the president. Well, I still think we need a cap. We need a cap on it. So, so if we get to the point 10 1% of that. Yeah. So, I I'm not sure what fund that would be, but that would certainly be a fund you would want to reconcile and see it every single Come on. Yeah. And so,

so I want to just make sure we as a council because we are approaching the end of March,

our budget process. Uh, Ed, scroll down to that March 1st, first deadline for the council. March 1st, we're already behind for rejecting revenues, which is our financial consultant's responsibility. We need the financial consultant on board now in our next meeting, reviewing this timeline alongside the full council, making decisions on the full year's process and giving us revenue projections, which that's partial, right? That all the revenue projections aren't available yet at our next meeting because if we don't do it at our next meeting, then it's going to be April, then it's going to be May, then there's going to be an emergency. And we remember we're not trying to recreate last year. We are not going to recreate last year. We are going to do it differently.

Okay. First of all, I resent. Absolutely resent. Okay. Getting beat up like I've gotten beat up. Political sabotage, you know, over this whole budget process from last year. All right. So, I I think you all got beat up. Well, enough. I mean, enough. Yeah, go on the defensive, but I will say this. You know, we've got $132,000, Scott. All right. And line item uh looks like it's uh 30 30,300 specific professional services.

It is professional consultants. So, we got more than enough to cover, you know, the Rey Financial. Number one. Okay. Number two, I want to see because I want to push back on you on this. All right. I have a I I have a responsibility. You know, when you talk about forecasting funds, you know, it's very easy to go in a gateway, pull up historical receipts per fund, fire up Excel, put in the annual receipts, and be able to understand how much revenues come in. Okay, that's easy to do, Scott. Yeah.

Okay. And I, you know, and I'm going to propose that maybe, you know, all seven council members probably ought to do that on their own. A little bit of self-education. Okay? I don't want to pay reading for something that I can do on my own. Now, if I have a question and I need clarification, so for example, the clarifying question was simply this. Susan Beavers, can you give it in writing that the distinction between an ordinance and a resolution? or Susan Beavers, can you give me an idea looking for the funds that that all share out of the pool of money for property tax, which she did. Yes, she did. Okay. Yeah, that was good. I really appreciated that. Very basic, but

but if you don't educate yourself and you don't are, you know, we all ought to strive to be a subject matter expert. There are a finite amount of funds in that 1782 that we have responsibility over and we ought to understand what the forecast ought to be on revenues. And furthermore, we should understand what the expenses are from one year to the next. Scott, so I'm agreeing with you. Okay. And here's here's the thing that's changed since last year. Something called SB1, which has completely changed.

That's don't don't go off on that. It's pretty it's pretty it's pretty complicated I think. I mean anyone would say that somebody says they're a mass 27 is 27 is the property tax is going to change in Brown County for 2027. It's it's Are they going to change in significant? Are they going to change in 2027? Either yes or no. Yes. For 2027. Yes. So and this is where we we don't want to just learn as we go here. It's too important to be I'll tell you why. because basically the way they're going to do your homesteads and your mortgage exemptions and everything, all the exemptions have changed. Yeah. So any exemption that you're going to want you're going to get is going to be based on a different a different way to do that.

So that's a good question that we ought to write down. All right. And the same question then has to do with income tax. How's income tax going to be affected? So that's something that Rey can ask that that they should come in and have an educational session on those changes that we're going to experience going forward. But that has nothing to do in the context of what I was talking about. What I'm talking about is understanding our historical revenues, all right, from the different lines, the different funds. So but we need to look forward. Well, I understand it, but how many of us, you know, okay, so so let me step back a little. Part of the process we're going through is as we go through a fund, we're going to identify the revenue.

And if you look at this report here, which is a gateway report, okay, you look at the gateway report, you can see by fund what our total revenues were and what our total dispersements were. Now, when you go into gateway, you're not going to get anything but a year. I've put five years together, six years. Okay? So, this I I'll share this with all the council, right? So, go through this if you have any questions. So, we start the other thing is is don't forget your in-house experts. Um, we went down and talked with Andy last week and um because one of the internal controls issues and I know Scott you're concerned about one of the internal controls was bank reconciliation, right? They reconcile every single day. Now, now we do have an we do have an issue which we know time list of transactions, but I I'm going to say if you bring Andy into the the discussion of what are our historical funds, she's going to be closest to telling you what reality is and you know, no no reflection on anybody, but Rey might not know about everything unless they've gone into the weeds.

Yeah. Let me yeah, let me clarify something because I've worked with a number of different professional advisors over the years. I'm going to go in and do my due diligence. First and foremost, I'm going to read the document. I'm going to read a document with the intent of trying to copy and comprehend. It's one thing to be able to read, but it's a different being able to comprehend something. Fair. Yeah. It takes me three times.

Yeah. At least. Yeah. Three or four times for me because I'm not as smart as you. So, so but but you have to and what what my goal is is to go in and read the document, comprehend what's in it and then be in a position to ask clarifying questions. So, in other words, you know, you may come across a paragraph and you maybe there's some vocabulary in there you're not quite clear on. Right. Especially when you get into legal ease, right? Right. So, if I'm going to consult with an attorney, I'm going to read the document and I'm going to have written clarifying questions.

Right. I may perceive this to be this. My perception is this is my takeaway from the document, but then I'm going to go to the professional and ask the professional, is this correct? Am I do I understand this correct or is there something that I'm missing? What I'm not going to do, however, because I have to pay for it out of my pocket, is I'm not going to not read the document, not try to comprehend what's in it, and then pay somebody 250, $300 an hour to be a teacher. I can't afford to do that. I don't have the money to do that. I can't go here, hey Bob, come on over here, and I'll pay you $3,500 bucks to explain a four-page document to me. I don't have the money to do that. And I don't think it's right to leverage to waste taxpayers money for work that we can do on the front end as elected officials.

So spot on. And you with me? Yeah. I I I ethically have an issue with that. Yep. Okay. Well, you you can tell Andy tomorrow that we signed her up. Who is who our Annie? Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Um, very very happy with the improvements they've made. That's knocked off one of our internal control issues and we probably got about six more to knock off. Yeah, good. I thought you said Annie. I'm like, who's Annie? And D. Gotcha. I grew up in Chicago and I live in southern Indiana. It's a mess.

And if you scroll down, just a fuzz to the council like I'm seeing we're already going on May one projection revenue projections by fund based on what you have here at least. If you scroll down, what else you got? That's now so you're still filling this in. Well, that's that's the next step. I I took a stab at pulling everything together. I ran it past this lady here. I ran it past him and they went, "Uh, it's a good timeline." And so that next session that you guys have, this piece of the document needs to be completed. Yeah. No dates on here.

Uh, no. I I haven't put dates on. I I you know I mean so this is this is the this is the overall timeline but I I'm not 100% sure% sure exactly what date's going to happen going forward. So that's something you guys are going to have to decide when your council meeting is when you're going to meet with the different uh entity funds not funds department. Thank you. Um so that's that's something you'll have to and then I will assist in going through the receipt. Um because that that to me is is very very critical to make sure this goes. So

in terms of the timeline Rey provided us, are there new items on here or is that this that timeline?

Um if if it wasn't in our if it wasn't in the state requirements, if it was in the state requirements, I went back and knocked it off of RED's form because it's a state requirement, right? If it was something that I'd seen before and REI had it, I knocked it off. If it was a REDI item that I didn't get from those two sources, I put it in. So, in other words, I took RED I took Rei and and kind of said, "Okay, this is covered by the state." Um, probably the best example or you know, these taxpayer notices came from the the the uh code came from Ry's document. So yes, it it aligns with what REI has and if there was something on REI that we didn't have, we added it.

Okay. So if we have REI at our next work session, that was my next question. Do we want RAID at our next work session? And what do we want them to provide details from their contact? Um I think they've already got a timeline for us. I think we should send them this. If you think you have something that they should review that we should pay them to review in addition to what they've already done, then we should send that to them. That's what I was trying to ask you. What is this the same or different or uh So, um Greg asked Rey to give a timeline for 2027. This is essentially includes their timeline, but we pulled some things forward. Greg. Gary, you mean? Or Greg? Gary.

Gary. Okay. Thank you. So, I I think we should ask Rita to be at our next meeting, guide us through the timeline they've already done for us apparently, um, and have council discussion on how we would like to engage department heads and others through the process. um as a start and then set the calendar for budget work sessions outside of those department head meetings. I think every meeting we have as a council, at least work session meetings should be devoted, you know, a third or all of it to budget preparations and discussions. And so, um, as I've mentioned before, I think really at those work sessions, we should be calling in the department as

I mean early. I don't know if we need to wait till 3 months later. Maybe we'll call them in before they submit the form. So pissed. I'm going to walk out of here. Scott, you're pushing me. It has nothing to do with you, Jim. I don't Yes, it does. Oh, it does. It does. Yeah. You have this? Yeah. Does the council have this? Have you picked it up and read through it to comprehend it and understand it? Do have you actually read through it?

Okay. Several times. cuz cuz let me ask you a question then. I would highly recommend that every one of the council members and I apologize for getting a little frustrated. All right, but Scott, you just I just we have the factor evaluation system.

We had a special session here. You're talking about bringing in Lori Sheilan, are you not? in April. You can kind of move it in that direction based off the email you sent out. Okay. Our labor cost, all right, is the largest expense as a county that we have. All right. As far as the budget is concerned, these departments, you know, those departments budgets are really not going to be that different from one year to the next. And all you got to do is go look at the departments. All right? So to spend an enormous amount of time rolling through these department heads and talking to them, you know what we have to look at is we have got to take a hard look at the labor cost because that's the most expensive part of the budget. And furthermore, we're look talking about we spent $45,000 to have Wagner, Irwin, and Sheiley come in here and propose that. How much time have we spent collectively, the seven member council members, sitting down and working to make sure we understand the factor evaluation system? How much time have we spent going through each department and looking at the labor cost each department and understanding from here's where they are versus this is where we've got to get to. Have we done that yet, Scott?

You're agreeing with me again, Scott. Okay, this is March. We've got April, May, and June. That's 90 days. That's those are three. No, not because we don't need Rei. We don't need Rei to come in here and do that. Now, if you want to pay REI to go in and build the Excel database that you and I talked about, so they can do the calculations, so they can figure out how much it's going to cost and how, you know, how how quickly can we implement that? How many years is it going to take us to implement it? Right. I don't know. That's How many hours is that gonna take? Probably 24, 25, 30 hours probably at least. I was going to say probably 50 at max.

50 hours. Yeah. 50 hours. What are they? 250. How much are they an hour? Two. Let's say they're 300 bucks an hour. That's $15,000. Depends on who it is. So, I'm going have a proposal on that. Well, we scope it out next week. Just scope it out. what it's going to take before and let's not engage them until we understand what we're asking until we do great. And so I'm going to add a piece here. Oh, hold on. Hold on,

Jim. The the importance of we learned this just last month, the importance of bringing the department heads in with the FES system is to help they help us understand the important layers of pay within their departments. So we target our pay We just learned that

until we until I completely comprehend which I don't not yet. I'm not there yet. I still have quite a bit of work to do. I probably got 12 hours to get myself up to the point to where probably where Julie is because Julie's got quite a few hours messing with the and same thing with Kim, right? So, the two of you and Sy's probably in there, you know. So, I've got to do my 12 hours worth of due diligence, if not more, to where I'm competent with that factor evaluation system, right? I don't need to go to a department head. But what I need to do is understand the thing first. Okay? And once I can understand it, you know, and then I've got to look at how many employees does every department have. I got to look at the labor costs for 2026. And then I got to say, okay, uh, you know, if we want to do because the other thing of it is is wouldn't we want if we're going to move transition to the factory evaluation system, don't we want to be fairminded and do that across all employees and all departments?

It's a good question. I'd like to hear from department. We've done that, but other department evaluations, but you didn't do it on all 180 employees. Well, some are maybe more. So in other words, you gave every employee got an increase in 2026 over 2025. Not everyone. Very. Well, then you didn't do all 180 employees. No, we implemented the FE. I understand that we voted for that. That's not my question. My question is is you have 180 employees. My understanding, Julie, is that you went in and we increased, we changed the compensation from 25 to 26 on a select group of employees.

Everybody who was everybody who was below the internal average. That's correct. Where's the report for that? Cuz I don't have it. We do. I do not have a two-page report or a one-page report that shows specifically here are the departments, here are the key the employees, here are their line items, here's the fund that we're pulling out of, here was their 25 pay, here's what their 26 pay under the new fees system. So Jim, I think what you're saying to I don't know what you're saying.

You know what I'm saying? I don't like to spend time on fees. I agree with you. I'd also like to spend time on the budget timeline and the process with the council with REI's guidance where they make sense in engaging where we can't do it, Ed can't do it, the count treasurer can't do it, Julie can't do it. We've always had that support. Every county does. And so like to engage them as well. And then thirdly, the internal control, state board of accounts, and credit rating issues that need to be addressed. you know, we've got to got to do more than one thing at a time here. We want to do them all and and so and they're all pretty important and so we got to kind of manage our time and bring in folks where we need them, where it makes sense.

The process doesn't start until July 1st when the departments submit their form once. I'd like to start it now. Well, let me back up. So, tomorrow we have tomorrow we have a small start now. Well, you're not starting the actual numbers of the budget, but you're starting to plan for the budget now. Okay. or we can wait till the last minute and do it all at once, which usually doesn't work on the specifically on the fees system. Okay. Well, that takes me back to the salary ordinance before everybody gets frustrated and we had a salary ordinance at our work session that we all agreed we had hammered out.

We had the details. We had it done. This we were going to get this resolved at this meeting. Correct. I said, "Does anybody have any concerns or questions about it?" And that was, "Nope. Sounds good. We'll get it done on our meeting." And now we're sitting here with a three-3 vote and we do not have a salary ordinance again. This year's salary bud ordinance in March and we don't have it yet. What's everybody's problem? What what what do we need to address on this to get this solved? Everybody who voted no specifically what what first off I told you that I abstained

at the at the the work session. Okay. I abstained from it because we and I told you in the meeting while ago we went away from the WHIS evaluations. Well, there's some of some of them we had we had to tweak and that was explained at the last meeting why we had to why why we had to go away from

as we as a group do not have the ability to evaluate the risks and those types of things in those job descriptions that assign a salary to a position. Okay, we do not have that ability. We have not had that training. We could spend weeks trying to learn that. It is huge. I have had some training on that many years ago and I mean this much training it is huge. Just be we made some decisions. Wait, not not me. People made decisions on people. I ask in our work sessions.

Those job descriptions were sent to those department heads and every department head was supposed to have looked at those. If they had questions, they were supposed to send it back to WIS. I have spoken to Whis. She called me. I didn't call her and she said that she spoke to department head after department head that had questions if they had questions. She said she spoke with the judge. She spoke with individuals and she said, "You know, we went in and we changed everything. We opened a can of worms when you all went in and you dropped people's salaries when we don't have the ability to evaluate that salary based upon those positions. We don't know how that works. We do not have that ability. And that is why I voted no. We paid experts to do this and we just threw it out the window. So, don't yell at me for saying no when I have been trying to explain this all along.

Not yelling at you, Judy. Can I ask? Yes. Can I I just cuz I think I heard what you just said, but I want to make sure I understand what you just said. You have the job descriptions. Yes. And then you have to categorize that job description based on that, you know, comp pod or whatever it is. Well, there's Yeah, like there's six different Yeah, there are classifications and then each under each classification there's like four different based on scoring. Okay. Some of them have to.

And so, hang on a minute. I'm trying to I just want to feed this back to Judy because I think I understand what she said, but I just want to make sure I understood it. Is you got the job description and then you got to tag the job description with that category. That's one part. The real big part, the big part is the scoring of that job description because then that gets into A B C D which influences the pay. It does.

And and what you what I also think I heard you say is that your perception is is that we assign the category, scored the thing, but it wasn't necessarily based off the job description. It was based more on who the employee is. Possibly. Yeah, possibly. Right. And the other thing is is And is that is that basically what you said? It kind of also you have let me let me let me finish.

There are risks and and I'm going to throw this out there. You have risks that a police officer will have. And that risk is going to be scored differently than a risk that let's say the auditor makes a mistake in the auditor's office. Yes, that's a risk. But that risk, she's not going to get shot. I mean, she might go to jail, but she's not going to get shot. But that's a risk and is weighed differently and scored differently than a police officer who might get shot. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't have that. We don't have anyone in the county do that. Exactly. And that's why we pay these experts to do it. And we should not be doing that ourselves,

right? Because I asked that question. If you remember, I asked this question back on the special session meeting we just had here a week or so ago that do we have the ability internally, the competence internally to score it ourselves or are we handcuffed to WIS to where we got to pay WIS and that's why there are companies out there that's why we had DMG to do it the first time. And when we had DMG do it, they even told us that initially, you know, every 3 to 5 years this needs to be reevaluated and we threw it out the window. We came up with 19 pay grades. Okay. And this is exactly what we're going to do now.

No, no, no, no, no, no. So your fear is is you we paid we paid this 50 grand to do this. We pass the ordinance to go ahead and implement it and then we don't understand how to do it and so we just go over and start using it as a pay grade system again. Exactly. And I'm going to throw this out here. That's a good point. And also, if you allow department heads and employees to learn how to to commit all this, they're going to learn how the verdage to put in there to score it higher. Employees don't tell us how to pay them. We give them the pay. Right. Right. I bet you at Cumins the employees don't tell them how much money. Absolutely.

Right. I'm with you. Okay. We're on the same page. Okay. So, I'm off my soap box. Sorry. 11:20. Okay. So, so in the timeline, um I I I just put in salary or but before we do that, we need to get the salary ordinance resolved. So what is I heard I heard from Judy you said you weren't going to vote on it or you said so your suggestion is go back to WIS bump every because we had a couple people who this the salary study came back and put them thousands of dollars above where they should give them a multi000 raise

and my question was one of them was the judge and I said why did you not take care of this right back then so do you Is are you saying then you want us to bring Wagner you give the salary ordinance to Wagner Irwin Sheiley and have them make the corrections? I'm not saying we give them the salary ordinance. I what I'm saying is the people that Well, the salary ordinance out outlies the fees system that we have implemented, right? And and I was in that oneird that we

that Julie and Gary and all of us that sat down and went down to read I mean I think we the oneird bump up that for to bring the lower people up that we've all talked about I think is grand. But just because someone has a higher salary that's only been here a year over somebody who's been here 10 years. Again, that's where we didn't make we didn't make any adjustments based on that. We did not make any job comparisons. No. Other than we did not

the other than the baoof at the at the And that's ba not based on the person. And that's based on the the baift and the and the front security guard were were scored the same based on some of the verbiage of and we need we need to get job descriptions in order which is which is supervisor which I would have went back to whis and say why is this can you explain this out for me I mean I would have asked those questions why is this you know that's what I would have done Just so to get I think we're opening a can of worms. So to get this in order, we need to have WIS make the corrections

or approve the corrections that we made. I think that's a start. I'm not going to say that's 100% the answer, but I I but we don't need to be evaluating those. Okay. We don't have the ability. What? There were two other no votes. What was it? What does it take to get together? I mean, my, you know, my note vote was really,

it's it's the same frustration you have with why people aren't on board. And it's why I'm trying to get us to address and engage the council earlier in the process rather than at the very end dumping a multi-pageund and some plus line new fees scoring system kind of that was done in committee meetings and then altered in other meetings and then you know we need to engage the council early on so we understand the things Judy is talking about. I had concerns drawing from Judy's comments, you know, um and she was in some of those meetings early on that I was not in, you know, and so my my, you know, no vote is yes, some of the things she said, but it's the way that we're doing things.

I'm with Darren. What changed? Because he said, I understand you. I understand you, Judy. I get what you're saying. But everybody else, he did ask he said, "Is everybody okay with this?" Everybody that was at that work session physically at the work session said we're okay with it. We can we can do this next meeting. Everybody even you. So what's your question? The qu it's not a question. What do we need to do? So what changed between that work that work session? Everybody agreed except for Judy. Yeah. I mean I don't know that we did we vote in that. No, no, but we consist everybody. Our work session meeting was to get this to a point where we could all agree that this was a good thing to

to b it's not a final the for a couple years now. This is going to be changed and whis is coming in to do that. We're going to work with whisk to evaluate the changes that we're doing. But this is I mean you're saying we have an urgency to start all this stuff for next year. We can't do next year's salary ordinance until we have this year's salary ordinance. And so and we just voted down this year's salary ordinance. So now we're a month behind again on this year's salary ordinance. So we're a month behind on the timeline that you're saying is so important. What I want to do is learn from that and change moving forward.

First of all, because you have a salary ordinance in Okay, we do. So that is an amendment to that salary ordinance knowing that there were going to be things changed. So sorry. Go ahead.

Okay. So while it's fresh in your mind again that's why I keep going. I I think you probably have the best overall perspective of this thing cuz I'm kind of clueless. Right. I was on the council 20 years ago and I never understood it. Right. I didn't really get it. So, you know, at this point in time, I I'm going to say this this should be an allgoverning document for anything that you're getting ready for. So, on here, right, we have salary ordinance input. What what tasks need to happen to finish this year and what tasks need to happen to prevent it from happening again? Okay. And right here

Ed just to you know that's why department head input is important and it's not to change the grades but now we have for the first time and this is an important piece of this new system within each grade. It's not just one number of pay.

It's a range of pay. And if we understand from department heads where there are critical points and critical positions that are are based on external pay factors from all of our surrounding counties, where those critical points are for employee retention and longevity and reduction of ongoing budget and training expenses. then we can better understand within that paygrade range where we need to be.

You're you're spot on in my mind, but okay. So, to ask answer your earlier question, Rainy put this at 9:19 and we all realize that was their schedule on September 19th. You guys really prepared to wait till September 19th on this? The answer is no. Right. I I I already know the answer. Well, there's lots of discussion leading up to that. And so the question is when and

yeah, the question is when and what's what's each step. And so I I'm I'm gonna say that I I mean I I really believe in these two charts, so to speak. And you know, maybe to maybe you can put together what you think the time are are how to do it, but until you got a timeline, it's not going to happen. Until you got a racy, it's not going to happen.

Dad, we had a timeline. I'm the one that's responsible for bringing in Rei Financial. All right. So, it was fourth quarter of 2024. Julie, you remember the day that we brought Rei in here in 2025. Okay. In addition to that, not only did I work with Rei prior to for them coming in here, in addition to that, the commissioner Tim Clark and myself and Rei, two of the Rei people met in my office and we put a timeline together prior to Okay. Now, what happens is is that and then they threw me under the bus and asked me to be the quote unquote chair for the finance committee because the county had never had a finance committee before, right? And you know what? Tim Clark, Gary Hwitt, and Darren Bird were on the finance committee. You know how many times these people reached out to me? Zip. Okay, I will say I did have Huitt came to my office one day because it spent 4 weeks putting together that 180 labor cost that I sent to the two of you to have you go through and approve because I had to understand exactly what our labor cost was because if I remember uh it was you Scott who because we made a motion and approved it that the budgets for 2025 when they submitted the form ones, Scott, we're be at 95% of the 2024 budgets.

Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Well, in order to do that, you have to understand what 2024 labor costs were or excuse me, 2025 labor costs were so that you can look at the delta between what they put in on their form one for the lines for every employee they have in those departments. So, I spent a whole month putting that Excel spreadsheet together. You with me? Never got any help. No one. And then the other thing I want to finish this and I want to get up and walk out and go home cuz I'm getting tired. Um, I'm going to say this. I'm a little cranky, too, but that's I'm a little Yeah, my frustration level right now is about an eight. Not mad, but I am frustrated. Okay.

Reporting, reporting, reporting. Okay. Period. I had to, you know, what did I get? Julie, you were nice enough. And I was really grateful that I got these, you know, forms that were filled out. I got an email in my email box. Right. Yep. Right. And then we had some special session meetings with the commissioners in there. Right. And we had all sorts of goofy stuff that was presented.

Right. Well, I took those these forms. I took that. I took the actual budget that we approved. Right. I took had everything right here and I had to sit down today and I went over this today and I had to create this Excel spreadsheet. Had I not created that, this is what I used when we went to pass. This is what I created today. It's it lays it all out very easy to read. It's very simple. We don't have any reporting. And I'm going to say this back to this salary ordinance. Okay? You know what I still don't know? I have no idea of what 2025 because we've got on any given day excluding community corrections there are 180 employees. Okay. I have I know what the 2025 labor cost. I know exactly every employee, every department. What I don't know is what you all did for 2026. I have no idea. I have no idea what's in that that Excel spreadsheet that Julie emailed me because in order for me to to determine is going to require me at least probably 12 hours of I'm going to have to do it because it won't get done. Nobody's going to do it. So I'm going to have to go in and create a take the do the work so that I can set up look at and go okay by department by fund here's the employees here's how they categorize them based on the new the you know the new fees here was the old pay grade they were under here was the salary based on the old pay grade here's 2026 fees what pay grade what's the delta between 25 and 26 because what I'm trying to solve for is I need to look at the department level. I need to know that the labor cost by department because this the sheriff deputies is the single most

expensive. Highway department's pretty expensive and so is the health department. I've got to look at 26 or 25 26 understand the distinction between the two. Got to do it by department. I got to look at it employee level. I got to look at it by fund level. And then I got to go in and look at 27 and say, "Okay, what if how do we implement 27?" And that freaking salary ordinance for 27 really should be done before July 1st.

Yeah, that's the deadline, July 1. Okay. Because that way you get that salary 2027 salary ordinance wrapped up by the end of June. Okay? Get your head wrapped around it, get it done. Then doing the rest of it is really pretty simple. Okay. Because you got the other discretionary spending areas. So Jim Jim input from department heads to get to that salary orders decision. We do right. No Judy said it earlier.

We are responsible for labor costs not the elected official. I mean so let me ask you this Scott. Is this is this council is the Brown County Council Board nothing more than come on in, give us a good pitch, and we r literally rubber stamp everything. Is that is that what goes on? Is that what this is? No, that's not what I do. Okay, here's hold on. Here's where we're at right now. We've got what you're what you're talking about happened. The department heads came in and met with Julie. This is the input. These are the these are the things that we see that are wrong with the the salary or

they didn't base it on the person. They based it on the job. It's on the job. It's not nobody was changed because of the person. That's right. And that was helpful. And that's what I am opposed to. We're not setting this based on the people. We're setting this based on the job. On the job. Yeah. That's what So nobody was changed by the person. No, Scott, what you're saying you want to have happen is already happen. Oh, man. Well, I was saying it was helpful and I think it would be even more helpful moving forward as we move forward.

It It seems to me like it seems to me if you push back, if you push back and you say what should have happened, let's detail out the steps of what should have happened and let's put a responsible person on it. Forget about what happened past what should have happened and then go back. Then you're prepared to do it properly. But you need some the the elected officials really need to be consulted because they know what the job they're these people are doing on their job description. If that job description is not correct, it's true. I'm not going to argue.

I mean, I agree. It's just there's more there is more info that would be helpful to us. It's the biggest part of our budget and not to even ask people who live in that space their opinion and their input just seems I'm not a law enforcement expert. I mean, you know, I value that input and I think it would help us form a better decision. You're a law enforcement expert. Yeah. But I I don't think I I kind of agree with them. I I don't think asking their opinions because it's all been done. The job description's done. Everything's done. The questions that were had were done with the department heads. It was all settled. It was all explained and and it was we thought it was all I thought it was all clarified

except for one person, which I respect that vote. I do that there would be enough people to get this done, but evidently there's not. But we do this all the time. We beat we beat the horse so bad we can't even kill it anymore because it's already dead. And we keep we're going to put it in our our cooler that's failing and and Well, so let's not do that again. We all we are talking about a new budget in a new year. So it's not just we don't just use the same numbers and the same you got to keep moving it forward. Well, the numbers come from us. What you're asking from from the department heads has already been done. Julie spent all that time

Hold on. Let me finish what I'm saying so I can get the three timelines here put together that that Julie did that. She met with the everything that has been adjusted or needs to be adjusted that you're talking about has already been done. What we're going to do is have the departments heads come in and say, "Okay, are we still doing the same thing you wanted last year?" Yeah, we've already done that. There's no need for that to happen. We are looking at numbers, Jim, to what to your point. What we need to do is we have this this year's salary ordinance the a the amendments to it will guide us because this did what you just said you want to have happen.

Right. So we can't we cannot do the we cannot do the 27 salary ordinance until we get the 26 salary ordinance amended correctly which answered all the questions you had. Now it's up to us to take the 27 salary ordinance. You know what I want to know, Darren? What? How many employees? We got 100 had 180 employees as of June 30, June 30th of 2025.

Okay. We've got 26 departments excluding, you know, animal control and school resource officer. How many employees do we have that their compensation is at the same as it was in 2025? How many employees and in what department? We don't know yet. That's what we that's what I'd like to really know that I that's a really important thing. How many employees are currently right now for 2026 their compensation is based off their 2025 wage base. The only thing that changed the only thing that changed

I'm about to answer that. I you put it in writing and you put it on paper. I'm tired of superficial anecdotal conversations. If we're going to have conversations, I want it in writing. I want facts. I don't want somebody just throwing out stuff and we don't have anything to support it. I'm over that. I I just not even going to engage anymore. So I want to know how of the 180 employees, how many of those employees in which departments their compensation is the same as it was in 2025? Who are the employees that got raises for 2026? All right. And how do we take these employees over here that are sitting at 2025 wages with no cost of living adjustment because we didn't give it to them and how do we increase their compensation? That's the story problem. And I don't want an anecdotal subjective.

No, this is not anecdotal. Hang on. Writing. I want you're talking. Hang on. I want it in writing. I want No, I want it in writing. I am I've been here 39 months. I am I am emotionally I am Ed I'm emotionally bankrupt. I'm emotionally bankrupt with the superficial subjective anecdotal conversations. And if we're going to have conversations, put it in writing and let's get the data and make sure we've got the facts so we can have a rational objective conversation. So, and until that happens, based on data, right? Yeah. I just that's just what I just said.

So, if you go to the Okay. Yeah. Ed, I don't need a training program. No, no, I'm not trying to train. I'm trying to tell you. No, I don't need you to train me anything right now. I was having a conversation with Derek. You have your data. I I have the data, but you know what, Ed, I'm going to have to go do the 20 hours worth of work in my office in order for me to be able to get the information that I need to create it in a report. Okay. Okay. Can we get back? I have a motion to turn because I want to get out of here. All right. So, I'm going to show you. Anyway, just so you know, too long, you have the data for the last decades for every single employee in Brown County. It's a matter of pulling it. Yeah. And we keep going around.

It's a matter of pulling it and and putting it on the year to year. It's it's a two-hour process, guys. I only did this. So, so Jim, if somebody does that process and gives you 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, what did I just say? The story problem is real simple. You have 180 employees. Yeah, I've said I mean, I don't know how many times I got to repeat myself. Okay, you have you have 180 employees. You have 26 departments.

That doesn't include school resource officer, animal control, blah blah blah. There's some stragglers out there or community corrections cuz community corrections doesn't matter cuz we don't have to pay for them. But we have 180 employees. We did not give a cost of living adjustment. Okay. From 25 to 26 for all 180 employees. Did we Julie? No, we didn't. But what we did do is we selectively went in and said, "Oh, gee golly whiz." Because what you told me at the special session meeting that we just had a week or so ago is our rationale behind it was we were going to look at a 3% cost of living adjustment based on xx. Well, that's my rational

that was okay and then we're going to take that money that we would have given to everybody but we didn't do that. Instead what we did is we went in and made a very subjective decisionmaking process and we isolated few employees. I think it was 11 to 15 people total. All right. And we went in and we bumped their weights because what I've heard you all say is we took the people kind of a few few people and we they were at the bottom and we brought them up. We did. Yeah. Okay. All right. I don't even have a report that shows who did you give the increases to. I don't have a report that by department. I I can't look at it. Okay.

Okay. What I do have is I've got an Excel spreadsheet that Julie gave me, but I'm going to have to spend, you know, at least two days, if not longer, to do the work, the data work on my end just to answer a few basic questions. Okay, the ordinance. No, you're not listening. I want to see 25 26 27. Okay, because the story problem what we have to figure out is the general fund is 10 million a year. It covers basically 2/3 of the labor cost. What questions do we have? 2/3 of the labor cost are coming out of the general fund. You got the highway department and you got the group.

I'm with you. Those are right. But we have the data. The day is right here. Yeah, I know. But I don't I've got to do the time on my end and do it myself in order to get the reporting. We got a motion to motion to Darren's got a couple questions, I guess. Are we having read our work session? I think we have what for? What's the purpose? That's what I'm asking. Budget timeline, assignment of duties, understanding who's doing what. Scott, I think we got to hammer. I mean, I'm sitting here trying to bring it up. I've had to circle back over and over and over again on labor cost and you keep going off at a completely different We can do more than one thing.

No, we can't, Scott. the the the the amount of time and energy. Let me ask you a question, Scott. Have you picked up the paperwork that you've got from WIS in the fourth quarter? And if you actually sat down and taken three or four hours to study it, could you stand up and do a 45minute presentation on don't laugh? Can you stand up and do a 45minute presentation on the W on the factory evaluation system? I wouldn't want to, but that's where you and I disagree. Okay. Does it have to do with what our next meeting the topic we have to spend the time discussing this factor evaluation that

okay but what purpose is REI now if you guys want to hire Rei and bring Rei in if we want to give them $15,000 to do this Excel work on factory evaluation system and solve a story problem come and tell you how to implement it fine but it's probably going to cost you he said 50 And I don't know what their labor rate is. I'm not looking for them to do that. I'm saying do we want them? Somebody has to do it. Who's going to do it? That motion to journ. I think we had a motion to journ.

Thank you very much. It's frontwheel drive. Did you second Patrick? Yes. Hey guys. Good meeting. No. Go home. Go home. Hey, be careful. All in favor say I. I got But I gave one anyway. No. Okay. Okay. Now that he's gone. No, just it's all good. Well, that's all right. My family left with the car. I got to walk home. So, I'll drive you. I'll drive you. Work the timeline.

Oh jeez. Don't work the timeline. You're going to have that soon.

Take care, kids. Sure. You don't. You can go. They can, you know, they can put you think. I know. All right. Guys, be careful out there. No thank you. Unless you got pocket government finance experts in a row, you might as well use the one we already got. 3 months from now, it's too late. I know like next meeting already started business. You're the only one that can make it happen. So, I let you do that.

It's just going to get worse and worse the longer we wait. because it was all just my understanding.