Board of Zoning Appeals (bza) - Regular Meeting

Morgantown Road, going towards Morgantown. Okay.

I'd almost like to skip one of these moments, so I can watch one or two and see how it comes across. Thank you. I'm going to call tonight's meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals to order and ask for a roll call, please.

Randy Jones.

Present.

John Delberger.

Here.

Darla Brown. Present. Jane Gore. Here. Michael Harrison.

Here. All right. Hopefully everybody had a chance to review the minutes that were sent around earlier. I had no changes to suggest. Anybody else?

No.

I'll move that we approve the minutes from the last month's meeting on May 27th of 2026 as written. I'll second. Take your choice.

You've got three to pick from.

Roll call vote to approve the minutes when you're ready, Danielle.

Jane Gore. Yes. John Dilberger.

Yes.

Michael Harrison.

Yes.

Carla Brown. I'm abstaining because I wasn't here. Randy Jones.

Yes.

Okay. All right. We have a couple of old business items that were carried over. The first was docket number 26-SE-05. This was withdrawn by the petitioner, so that's off our agenda. The second item was docket number 26-VAR-05. This is a request for approval of a rear setback variance. Whenever you're ready, Kayla, we'll have your staff report.

And I hope that I say the last name properly. Please correct me if I don't. I've been practicing.

Okay.

All right. This is the staff report for Narco-X variance petition. Docket number 26-VAR-05. Hearing date, June 24th, 2026. Petitioners and property owners, Jeremy Place for Allen and Bethany Narco-X. Request is a variance from the rear setback requirement of 25 feet. Ordinance provisions, section 4.6b, standard setbacks of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance. Location, 7106 Muskrat Drive, Nineveh, in Hamblin Township within the Corddry-Sweetwater Conservancy District. The property is located on the north side of Muskrat Drive, approximately 200 feet west of the intersection of Sunset Drive and Muskrat Drive. Zoning and current land use, the property is zoned lake residential and has a residence. General findings, one, the Brown County Zoning Ordinance and the rules of the Cordray-Sweetwater Conservancy District provide that in a residential district, the minimum distance between the rear line of structures and the rear property line should be no less than 25 feet. Two, an existing open-sided roof structure Measuring 14 feet by eight feet exists approximately 16 feet from the rear slash lakeside of the property. The petitioner is requesting approval to add walls and a door to the existing structure and to make it usable as lakeside storage. Three, the statement of request explains that due to the configuration, size of the lot and the proximity to the existing residence and improvements, there's limited usable space outside of the setback area that could accommodate storage for lake related items. The statement also explains that this structure is consistent with the character and typical use of other properties in the district. Four, the petitioner further states that the strict enforcement of the setbacks would create an unnecessary hardship by preventing the reasonable and customary use of the property for lake-related activities. Five, the reduced setback extends toward the lake and not toward private property. And the petitioner states that approval of the variance would promote safety, functionality, and would enhance the cleanliness of the lot. Six, there are many examples of reduced setbacks for pre-existing and for new construction within the Cordray-Sweetwater Conservancy District. Setback variances were approved on either side of this property, a rear setback to the west and a front setback to the east. Further west of the property exists another approval for a front setback. Seven, according to the site plan, the front and side setback requirements will remain met. The board may grant a variance with respect to specific property if after conducting a hearing under section 7.2 of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance, it finds that one, there are special circumstances relating to the property that do not generally affect other property or other uses of the same kind in the same district and vicinity. Two, the special circumstances create hardship in that if the variance is not granted, a substantial property right that is enjoyed by other properties in that district and vicinity cannot be enjoyed. Three, the granting of the variance will not be materially detrimental to the public welfare or materially injurious to other property or uses in that district and vicinity. Summary, staff finds that there are many examples of reduced setbacks nearby located both on land and on the water. The board must decide if approval of the variance will be materially detrimental to other property or uses in the same district and vicinity. Here's the site plan. You guys should all have this in your packet too. What's existing.

All right. Do you want to talk us through this picture or should I wait for the petitioner to do it?

So this is existing at the lakeside of the property. So this photo is from the lakeside looking back up toward, toward the house and toward the road.

Okay.

So this is existing conditions.

And can you talk us through on this what they want to do, or should I wait for the petitioner to do that?

They want to use the area underneath here as storage for lake-related items, so kayaks, life jackets. They want to add sides and a door. Gotcha. And if we want to ask if that's correct from the petitioner, that'd be great. Great. Okay. Picture of the home from the road. And this is on the left side of the property. Another picture on the right side. And then, can you guys?

There it is, way down there.

Yep, I was gonna say, I don't think you can see my mouse, but it is right about in the middle of that picture there.

Yep, okay.

And then again, remember the pinkish Purpley squares are other variances that have been approved. And that is the end of the staff report.

Okay, thanks. Any questions from the board for Kayla?

How about cards? There were 18 cards sent out and 13 were returned.

All right.

If there's no other questions for the board, you're the petitioner, I assume, yes? I am.

Yeah, on behalf of Alan Arkowitz.

Okay, great. Did you have anything you wanted to add to Kayla's report or share with us?

No, that was very accurate. They want to utilize the space closer to where their boat is so they don't have to lug everything back to the house and keep the place tidy.

Got you. Go ahead, Jane. Any questions for the petitioner from the board?

It says existing structure. How long has that been there?

They are replacing a lot of They had a set of steps and an existing structure that was falling apart. They bought the property back in 2024, and they've been since trying to replace all the steps, and that deck is replacing an existing structure that was there before.

So they're... How long ago?

Recently, like in the last six months.

There was nothing there, and then...

There was an old, I don't know, it was like a storage shed or something, but that was kind of rickety and breaking down, and so they replaced it. They also replaced their dock, too.

Oh, okay. I'm confused about the replacement. If you're replacing it, you've still got some structure there.

There is, but it's, so there's a deck, that area that you saw, if you could go back to the picture. So that is a deck right there that just goes all the way back. Now the structure that you see up there, that is beyond the 25 feet. The deck extends out. Outside of that, it's not considered a structure until we put walls and a door on it.

Oh, okay.

Beyond the 25 feet, you mean within the 25 feet?

No, the structure that you see on top of the deck, that's outside of the 25 feet.

In other words, it's less than 25 feet.

No, more. It's more than 25 feet.

It's within the setback requirement. Okay. Yeah. I want to be clear.

Yeah. What I'm trying to determine is if this, what you see right here, has actually been permitted previously.

Yeah, we pulled a building permit for this structure. for the structure that you're looking at right here. Yeah, and it wasn't, there wasn't an issue until we wanted to make that a storage unit. And that's when we had to.

If you had a permit for that, why are we just now looking at the setback?

Because they decided they wanted to make it a storage. It wasn't initially, it wasn't.

There should have been a permit. Yeah, I guess I'm a little confused, too. Like, Mike, don't you need a permit to put a deck that's outside the setback requirement?

So Danielle's been doing a lot of research on this, and it appears that the Conservancy occasionally approves decks if they are some way leading to the dock structures. I believe that that is where we're at here.

Wouldn't a Brown County permit still be required under that circumstance?

It was smaller than the 120 square feet. Yeah, it is smaller than a...

I believe this one was exempt. I am not certain why.

Okay. I think it wasn't large enough. I think it's not 120 square foot.

So the previous owner did that. Is that correct?

No, this is the new owner. The previous owner had an old shed out where you see the building at now. There was a shed there before.

Was that shed where the deck is now or just where the building is now?

I think it was more closer to the building.

So it probably was within the 25-foot setback. It might have been. It probably meant that.

It might have been.

Yeah, probably so. Okay.

And then we pulled the property card for this one, and we can't see what it says, but it appears that the Conservancy approved something under a permit number 20-124 and then another something under 25-013. And those permit numbers are not long enough to be ours.

Yes.

And we wouldn't have permitted within the 25 foot from the rear. It must be the year 20 and 25.

Yeah. Well, I'm not sure that's germane to us.

No, I'm not sure.

They have their own, but the thing is they're still under the auspices of control of our development code.

Correct.

So these setbacks stand.

Yes.

So if I'm looking at this correctly, then this construction, what we have here basically is construction as a noncompliance. It's infringed upon the setback. This is relatively new construction that is already infringed upon that setback, correct?

It appears so, although I'm not certain who's fault that is.

Well, I'm not. Yeah, and I don't.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with Randy. I'm not sure.

Because I'm not sure why the Conservancy would approve something on the land as they typically only do on the water.

Does he have a Brown County building permit? And if he does, then the question is, why did Brown County issue a building permit? Right. Or did we not do that? And if so.

We did not.

We did not. So he doesn't have a Brown County building permit for his debt. Yep. Okay.

And you're saying that a Brown County permit was not necessary at that time?

I don't know the exact circumstances, so I don't want to say that it wasn't necessary. But a permit, so when the petitioner asked to make this into storage, we said, well, what's existing currently does not meet the 25-foot setback. So to do anything you need.

So you said you are going to need a Brown County building permit to enclose this and put a door and make it into an enclosed space. Yes. And to get that permit, you're going to need a variance because you're outside the setback. Right. Okay, I get it.

Yeah, yeah.

I get it. I get where we are.

In the meantime.

All right. Any other questions for Kayla or the petitioner from the board?

only like seven feet maybe. It's barely tall enough to walk into.

I think it's they're going to put three sides on this thing you're looking at, Jane.

On that dent.

On the front section there, it'll be like a roll-up door. And then on the sides, it'll be like siding.

Yeah, I got that. Seven feet would be from the floor up because there's that distance from the

Out of curiosity, why the holes? Those look like footing holes, but I don't know what they are.

They had put those there in anticipation of framing it for the door. We were like, we've got to get a variance first before we start working on that.

Okay. That's a big frame.

Okay, wow. Okay, I understand. Any other questions for the petitioner? No. All right. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Is there anybody here in the audience tonight who wants to speak for this petition? Or anybody who wants to speak against the petition? Okay, I don't see anybody, so I guess it comes back to us to discuss and make a decision on.

And we did get the letter of... I don't think they called it opposition, letter of concern from the neighbor that you guys should have in your packet.

Yes, I read that letter. I may try to read a little bit of it into the record. It was submitted by, I think her name was Ms. Nixon, if I remember right. Yes, Susan Nixon. She said, I have concerns for this petition on a couple of fronts. um she refers to a garage structure with an apartment that was approved on a different property sometime in the past that was tall enough to obstruct some lake views and she also notes that she sits across the cove from this property and that there She's I don't know how to put this other than she did it She she's not sure that the petitioners always exercise sound judgment as related to lake projects That's that's how she puts But she doesn't specifically say she's for or against this particular project.

I will say that Alan did give me a little details on this. When they moved in, the dock was just finished, and they didn't build it properly, and that's when it failed. So they did have to have it rebuilt last year. So it wasn't – they may not understand that Alan isn't the owner prior to that when they built it poorly.

Oh, I see. Yeah. So it was brought to the attention of the owner, Alan, correctly, by someone. He had approached you or someone to enclose this, build this in?

No, Alan is the owner, and he's the one that was wanting to enclose this.

Right, but he was – it wasn't until then that he felt that there – He needed to go through the proper setback distances and stuff. That's what initiated this application?

I think it was through permitting is when we figured.

Through permitting.

He figured that out.

After his discussions with staff?

I believe so, yes.

I think he talked to Lonnie. Makes sense. Okay. All right.

Okay. Okay. thoughts.

Thank you. Well, I've previously said that I felt like the Conservancy District ought to have the first voice, and that's happened here. There's an existing dock, and I've always felt like if you've got existing construction there, why protect the setback when it's there? So the only issue that I had with this was if there had been some unauthorized construction that went on, and it sounds like that that hasn't happened, so I don't have any objection to this.

Okay. Darla, any thoughts?

I don't have any issues with it.

Randy?

No, I think the way you explained it, it explained what happened, what took place. It's not the ideal situation, but... I think I understand why what happened did, so.

Yeah.

Jane, any thoughts?

I agree with Randy. I don't like the way it was approached, but I think it's not a habitable structure, so.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I look at the way this property lies from this picture and a couple of others, and I'll accept that while there are other places you could put storage facility for your boat, they're all farther away from the water than this if you're going to be within the setback requirement. Frankly, the frame for this shed already exists, and You know, saying you can't put walls on it and such is just going to, it's not going to change a thing that's already sitting on the ground there. So I have no problem with approving this variance myself. And I would entertain a motion to that effect.

Well, I move that we approve docket number 26, VAR 05.

I'll second that. Roll call vote when you're ready, Danielle.

Okay. John Dilberger?

Yes.

Michael Harrison?

Yes.

Darla Brown? Yes. Randy Jones?

Yes.

Wayne Gore? Yes.

All right. Your request is approved.

All right. I'll send you an approval letter, and then we can talk next steps after.

Now we turn to new business. First item tonight, stock at number 26-VAR-07. This is also a request for a variance, but from a front setback requirement. Whenever you're ready, Kayla.

All right. Staff report for Corson and Freeman. Front setback variance petition. Docket number 26-VAR-07. Hearing date, June 24, 2026. Petitioners and property owners, Heidi Corson and Jason Freeman. Request is a variance from the front setback requirement. Ordinance provisions, section 4.6A of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance titled Standard Setbacks. Location. The property is located at 3825 State Road 135 South, Nashville, Indiana, in Van Buren Township. The home is located on the east side of the road, east side of State Road 135 South, approximately 1,406 feet northwest of the intersection with Valley Branch Road. Zoning and current land use, the property is zoned primary residential R1 and floodplain FP and consists of two acres. General findings, one, section 4.6A of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance titled Standard Setback states that the minimum distance between the front line of a building and the center line of State Road 46 is 110 feet, State Road 135, and that's north and south, and State Road 45 is 75 feet. All other roads, including private roads, is 50 feet. Two, according to the property record card, the home was originally built in 1971. The existing home has a front setback of approximately 37 feet from State Road 135 South. Three, on May 16th, 2025, the residence was destroyed by a tornado and the petitioners wish to rebuild their home on the existing foundation. Typically, a home can be demolished and then rebuilt on the existing footprint regardless of if the current setbacks are met so long as the footprint remains the same. Four, after the tornado, the DNR studied the previously not delineated floodplain on the property. Once the studies were completed and elevations were determined, the home and the property were determined to be in floodway. Five, the petitioners have been working with the Department of Natural Resources Division of Water to assess the possibility of rebuilding a home on the existing foundation. They have been designing the rebuild of the home to meet the DNR and county requirements for residents in the floodplain. Although a permit for construction in the floodway has not been issued yet, it is expected. The home is expected to be elevated five to six feet higher than it was. Seven, the petitioners are also in contact with the DNR and the Brown County Health Department to elevate the septic system. Seven, the petitioners are also requesting to allow a shed measuring 20 feet by 20 feet in line with the existing foundation at approximately 37 feet from the state road. Eight, the statement of request explains that due to the size of the property and the proximity to the creek and road, there is no other location on the property to build. According to the GIS map, there is roughly 85 feet total from the road to the creek. Behind the creek to the rear of the property is an extremely steep incline. Nine, the reduced setback extends toward the road and not toward neighboring property, and according to the site plan, the rear and side setbacks will exceed the requirements. The board may grant a variance with respect to a specific property if, after conducting a hearing under Section 7.2 of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance, it finds that One, there are special circumstances relating to the property that do not generally affect other property or other uses of the same kind in the same district and vicinity. Two, the special circumstances create hardship in that if the variance is not granted, a substantial property right that is enjoyed by other properties in that district and vicinity cannot be enjoyed. Three, the granting of the variance will not be materially detrimental to public welfare or materially injurious to other property or uses in that district and vicinity. Recommendation. Staff recommends approval of the petition because the residence has been in the same location for approximately 55 years. Staff finds no evidence that approval of this variance will have any impact on neighboring property owners in the same district and vicinity. If the variance is approved, all DNR and health regulations shall be met prior to the issuance of a building permit. This is looking south from the driveway. North from the driveway. At the home, I did walk across the street, but I looked both ways before I did. A little bit more of a close-up there. Existing shed, and this is to the north of the house, which you can see on your site plan. So this picture, I was on the south side of the house looking north, so there's the creek there that we're talking about, and then State Road 135 south is just to the left here.

What's the name of that waterway there? Kayla, do you know that creek?

It's not named.

Oh. You mean that's the name of it, not named?

No, it was not even studied until these folks were trying to get a building permit to rebuild their home. And then DNR studied the maps, and that's where we are now.

Okay. Gotcha.

And then this is not a great picture, but what I tried to show here was from the edge of the creek So looking up, it truly goes straight up. And there's the back deck in relation to the creek there. Approximate shed location, so this is to the south of the house. And then the site plan. All right, that's the end of the staff report.

Okay, thank you, Kayla. Any questions from the board?

There were seven sent and three were returned. Okay, all right, thanks.

Who determines that there is no, due to the size of the number eight, who determines that there's no other place to build?

I mean, I can see that they're written, but. Number eight, is that what you asked about? So that's the petitioner stating that, that due to the size of the property and proximity to the creek and the road.

How many acres are involved?

Two.

Okay.

Kayla, if we were to approve this, the health department issue and the floodplain issue would both be resolved as part of that permit?

Prior to the issuance of the local building permit.

All right.

You folks are the petitioners, right? Yep. Is there anything that you'd like to add to Kayla's report to us? Okay. Any questions from the board for the petitioners?

I do.

Go ahead.

So you've been in contact with the county health department with respect to the septic system, and are you going with some type of an elevated mound system, or what are they proposing? Do you know?

No. Ernie's approved a pump and haul.

A pump and haul, but it would have to be an elevated type system?

Yeah, it'll be at 618 base flood elevation.

Okay. Okay, so there will be no finger system or sorption field of any kind. It's strictly just that pump and haul. Okay. Two tanks. Okay. Got it.

So is it completely destroyed or? Yes.

Yeah.

How long have you lived there?

Four years.

I've been down that road quite often. So will your house, and I know your house, that's Floodway, not Floodplain. Okay.

Okay.

Okay. All right, if there's no other questions, thank you very much. Thank you. You bet. Is there anybody here tonight who wants to speak in favor of this petition? Anybody who wants to speak against the petition? I'm going to bring this back to the board then for a decision. Thoughts, Jane?

Well, I think it's a hardship that they can't rebuild it.

Yeah, okay. Randy, any thoughts?

I don't. I mean, this is a perfect example of a force majeure where the nature stepped in and did the damage. And I always, of course, really get kind of broken out in highs when I hear construction in a floodway or even a floodplain. But again, this is an exceptional case. So based upon that, I don't really have any issues with it. Okay.

No comment. No comment.

As long as the footprint's the same and they're not extending the footprint.

Well, the footprint's the same for the house, but they're also wanting to put up a new shed. Well, they're moving it, basically. Right? I understood they were putting up a new shed.

I believe they're wanting to add a new shed, so the one on the north side will remain.

They want one on either side of the house. They have one on one side of the house that survived the storm. No, it did not. Oh, it didn't survive the storm?

No, this one's replacing what we used. Okay. The old property. Okay.

All right, so if you'd come up the microphone for a minute, just so I can be clear on this for the record. So there was a home and an existing shed. Both of those were damaged beyond repair by the storm, and you want to put back the home and the shed. You're not asking for a second shed. No, sir. Thank you.

Okay.

Because the picture we got shows a shed on either side of the house.

Well, there was a portion in there that kind of modifies that that's kind of hard to see.

Right. One more piece. Right. So this isn't an accurate site plan of what you want to do.

It'll just be the one, yeah.

Yeah, okay. Thanks. I appreciate it. See, that was hard. That was easy to miss, that one.

Yeah, and I did not walk to the other side of the shed. Let's see what that.

Okay. All right. Well, I personally don't have a problem with this. I mean, I agree. Our ordinance says that you can rebuild if your home's been damaged to the point of it can't be repaired as long as you use the same footprint. They're going to use the same footprint for the home. I'm not clear if the shed's going to go on a different side of the house or not, but I don't really care, in this case, about the shed. It's the home I care about.

You got a question out there, John?

Yes, sir, if you'd come to the microphone and identify yourself. We record these, so we need you to identify yourself.

So in the case of Mother Nature, are these permits, do these people have to pay for these permits in a case like this, or is that something gifted?

Well, that's a question for Kayla. No.

Okay.

Not for a residence. That's good. Now, if it's a barn and they said, well, I didn't like my 20 by 20 anyway, so I'm going to build a 60 by 60 now. then they'd pay the $50 permit fee, but not for a residence that's destroyed by fire or tornado damage or something like that.

Okay.

Could you state your name for the residence?

Yeah, Shelton Hamilton. Oh, thanks, Jane. Okay, well, as I say, I do not have a problem approving this request. So I'll make a motion that we approve docket number 26-VAR-07, which is a request for a variance from a front setback requirement.

Second.

When you're ready, Daniela, roll call vote.

Michael Harrison?

Yes.

Darla Brown? Yes. Randy Jones?

Yes.

Jane Gore? Yes. John Delberger?

Yes.

Okay. Your request has been approved.

And I'll send you guys an approval letter. And just for the record, I know the petitioners know this, they do still have to pull a building permit.

Yes.

Yes. They just will not have to pay for the permit for the residents.

Were you guys clear on that? Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. All right.

The next item on our agenda tonight is docket number 26-SE-07. This is a request to amend an existing special exception for private recreational development. Whenever you're ready, Kayla, you can give us your staff report.

Hey, Kayla. Uh-huh. Could you move your mic a little closer to you, please? Thank you.

If I can get all my stuff out of the way. Okay, and this one does look quite a bit blurrier. Our scanner stopped halfway through presentations and scanning the board packets. But you guys should have a pretty clear version in your packets.

I'll put my glasses on anyway.

All right. So this is a staff report for the Barnett Timber Ridge PRD amendment. Docket number 26-SE-07. Hearing date, June 24th, 2026. Petitioner and property owner, Christopher S.K. Duvall for the barn at Timber Ridge. Request amendment to a special exception for a private recreational development. Ordinance provisions, chapter 3, sections 1 and 4 in the Brown County Zoning Ordinance. Location, the property is located at 400 Hornet Town Road, Morgantown, on the north side of the road, approximately two-thirds of a mile from the intersection with State Road 135 North and Jackson Township. Zoning and current land use, the property is zoned secondary residential, R2, and an event barn exists on the property. A special exception to operate a private recreational development, PRD, was previously granted by the Board of Zoning Appeals. Oh, I didn't realize that I swapped the view. Let me fix that really quick. There we go. General findings, one, the property consists of approximately 5.387 acres and has approval of a private recreational development for a wedding venue. The owners of the venue live next door. Two, on October 25th, 2017, docket number 17-SE-13 for a special exception for a PRD, private recreational development, was approved with the following conditions. The state approved septic system is installed The driveway changes agreed to are completed. There will be a maximum occupancy of 164 guests at any time. The hours of operation will be from 10 AM to 10 PM. The use is limited to weddings. The venue will operate on Saturdays only. No outdoor live music will be permitted. Three, the petitioner is requesting an amendment to the original special exception conditions to allow for more events including, but not limited to, proms, birthday parties, corporate parties, and community events. The petitioner is also requesting to be allowed to host events on every day of the week with occasional outdoor wedding ceremonies. Four, a letter was provided by the petitioner from Doug Harden at Miller Architects on May 13, 2016, stating that the building contains details that would allow for larger events. After reviewing the building plans and state approvals, Mr. Harden determined the following. There are four exit doors that would allow for up to 600 people to exit the building. Existing restroom facilities meet plumbing code to allow a total of 300 people. The septic was designed for a maximum of 420 people per week. The building was designed with the proper fire alarm system. Five, SCI REMC provides electricity for the property. Water service is provided by Brown County Water Utility Incorporated. Six, the petitioner states that he would like to remove Remove the event type limitation and day restrictions so that there is more flexibility on event type and the allowance for an event any day Monday through Sunday from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Seven, the statement of request states that there is adequate parking that is clearly marked and states that there have been no issues with traffic as guests arrive and leave at different times. Findings of fact, the board may grant a special exception for a use in a district if after a hearing under section 7.2, it finds that one, section 3.1 authorizes a special exception for that use in that district. Two, the requirements for special exceptions provided by this ordinance will be met. Three, granting the special exception will not subvert the general purposes served by the Brown County Zoning Ordinance and will not materially and permanently injure other property or uses in the same district and vicinity. Findings, the board must decide whether increasing the guest count, allowing for daily events, and allowing outdoor ceremonies would subvert the general purposes of the Brown County Zoning Ordinance or materially and permanently injure other property or uses in the same district and vicinity. Recommendation, if the board grants approval of the petition, it should be based on the following conditions. One, the hours of operation are from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., Monday through Sunday. Two, the maximum number of guests will be 400. Three, if an event consists of over 300 guests, additional restroom facilities will be provided. Four, any outdoor ceremony will be held between the hours of 1 p.m. and 5 p.m. and will have minimal noise. And this is the parking area. Well this got really blurry. But it was a nice photo of where outdoor ceremonies could be held. And then the entrance to the property. And this is just the same entrance but the other side of it.

Got it.

This green line at the bottom there, that's Hornet Town Road. And then the white outlined is the barn. And those images, those last few should be clearer on what you guys have than they are on the screen.

Yeah, they are.

All right, that's the end of the staff report.

Thank you for that. Any questions for Kayla?

Ten were sent, nine were returned.

I have none. All right.

Okay. You're the petitioner, sir? Yes. Do you have anything you want to add to Kayla's report to us?

I don't even know what's appropriate. I don't want to waste your time. I've got all the information that you could need. If you have any questions, certainly I would answer them.

I don't think so. Oh. It was. Yeah, once it stops flashing. There, now try it.

Testing, one, two, okay.

Perfect.

Is there something about this stand that makes your heart pound really bad? Oh, it's just made of wood. Don't worry about it. I'm thinking there's something. We're really gentle up here, honestly. Oh, geez. You know what? So I'm in a kind of a tossing back and forth. I don't want to waste your guys' time, certainly. I could give you more context to any of what she said, but certainly what she said was sufficient. I will say my wife, Laura, and my son's here, my other son's at camp, but we live on property as well. That might be something of relevance. We're super conscious, super respectful of our neighbors. We're in regular contact with them. They have our phone numbers if there's any issues, of course, but I feel like we're a a net positive to the community, you know, not a nuisance. But I would field any questions that you have. You know, actually, I did have something, I don't know, just come to me, is that certainly the reason we're even here really for us is we were ignorant of the zoning because we bought the property from somebody else and not to throw dirt at them at all. They were a sweet older couple as well. But they did not share with us the restrictions on it. As a matter of fact, it came with already 30 events booked. We bought it in 2020. They owned it for two years. I think it was zoned in 2017. So they already had weddings and proms and things, and they weren't just on Saturdays. So it really didn't occur to us at all that there was a restriction on just weddings, just Saturdays that we could be open. So we've been operating in ignorance, really. And I only say that to not that we were trying to be disrespectful to the zoning at all, but. We've had no complaints so far.

It's gone again, isn't it? Yeah, it's gone again.

You want me to just speak louder? I don't know.

It may need a battery or something.

It did this to me yesterday.

I feel like somebody sabotaged it.

The staff report was blurry. Now the mic doesn't work. Yes.

Well, if you look good, it probably says Mattel on the bottom part of it down there.

Please.

I can't even remember what I was saying actually. But yeah, we've had no complaints. Really what we're asking is how we've unfortunately been operating thus far for six years.

Out of curiosity, how did it come to your attention that you actually didn't have approval?

So we were, the Martinsville High School scheduled a prom at the barn at Timber Ridge And they scheduled it in 2024, and it was supposed to be this May. About six weeks before the event, I think the principal was retiring, and he had this genius idea to invite the 9th graders and 10th graders. And so they told us, again, about six weeks before the event, say, hey, we're expecting 400 people now. So obviously that's a change for us. We didn't know the restriction, but we knew that, you know what, we should probably check with the zoning. So we told them, hey, I think you're going to have to have a special permit if you're going to add the ninth and tenth graders. Yeah, so anyway, needless to say, they did not do that. I don't know if they procrastinated or what, but we were up in Nashville anyway in this building actually doing some things, and I just stopped in the zoning office and told them the issue. and said, hey, this is the situation. I'd like to see what we can do to make sure we're in compliance. And is there a special event permit we can get? And of course, Kayla told me there's no process for that in Brown County for a special event. And so she, of course, told us that we couldn't do the event. And she pulled up the summary for us. And then, of course, I was kind of mortified to read the summary of we can only be open on Saturday and only for weddings. That's kind of terrifying for us. But anyway, that's how. That's how we came. I was trying to do the right thing, and we found out about the zoning, and immediately I filled out the application for this meeting.

And you are doing the right thing.

I appreciate that.

So how often are you, on average every year, how many weekends are you booked with something?

Um, well, every, about every weekend, as far as that goes, you know, um, so yeah, probably every weekend. I mean, in the winter time, less so, you know, but, uh, you know, w w we mostly do weddings and that's what we want to do mostly. But of course we want to do proms, corporate parties. We do those, we do community events already breakfast with Santa, you know, date night events, those kinds of things. We want to of course, continue to do those things. I will say, too, if you were a fly on the wall and you could hear a bride tell us that, hey, we had our prom here. I always dreamt of having my wedding here. And then she, of course, gets married there. You know, it's just a kind of warm your heart sort of thing. Of course, we want to continue to do that as well. But yeah, I think our Yeah, we have a lot of weddings. We're very popular, and I invite you guys to come out. I know that sounds maybe silly to promote our event or center, but it's a special place. It's not the typical barn. It's really neat. I think you guys would be really proud in that it represents Brown County really well. It's got a real rustic kind of theme to it, which is not new, but It's beautiful outside. It highlights the nature of Brown County, the ridges and the trees and the timber. Almost probably 90% of the wood is from Helmsburg Mill, the timber that we use. It's just a special place. I think you guys would enjoy it.

Are you asking to do anything now that you or the previous owner hasn't already been doing?

Unfortunately, no, I'm not. And the reason I say unfortunately is because we've been operating in ignorance. I think the only thing is we haven't done a 400-guest prom, but we felt very comfortable with it as far as prepared for it. But on the other hand, because we connected with, of course, the architect, we know we have the proper exits for it. We know we have a plan for the bathrooms and the septic system, all that. When there's no tables and chairs, you can do that. But again... We're not trying to do proms all year. That's, you know, in May maybe, you know, that there's a senior prom. So mostly we'll do weddings.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions from the board?

I have some. Do you have any site lighting in the parking lot or the road?

Yes, sir. Yeah. Anything specific you want me to tell you?

Yes.

Okay. When we first got there, I mean, we've done so many neat upgrades to the property. When we first got there, there was not really a great parking lot even. So we have solar lights that are around the parking lot.

Are those those small ones?

Yep. Yeah, they're small four-foot posts with solar lights. I saw those in the picture. Yeah. And then we have Hamilton Construction installed seven nice timber lights for the parking area. And, of course, we don't want to – I mean, when we first got here, we were so amazed at how bright the Brown County sky is. So we don't want to have the lights on all the time for our neighbors and whatnot. So we're very conscious of that as well. And we have our archway that you saw in the picture that is the entrance to our property. It has two lights on it as well.

How about the road itself?

The road, meaning the driveway? Yes. Yeah, there's not lighting down the driveway, but there is a probably 100 foot in, you'll come to the first ceremony site, which is an outdoor space. It has lighting. And, of course, our neighbor, in which they're here, they, of course, have their property that's right up against our driveway, and, you know, they have lighting. But no lighting down the driveway. Okay.

I've got some life safety concerns that I'll share with the board, but I want to ask you some things that are not going to affect anything, just for my information. Yeah. How long has it been since you've tested your life safety system, your fire alarm system or whatever?

It was just tested. I think you guys have a record of it. It was all tested.

How is that done here? Does the fire department participate, or how is that recorded?

I think... As I understand, the companies that install those kind of systems, they have to get licensed by the state to do these tests so they know what to look for, know how far the smoke detectors and pull stations have to be, know how many you have, all that. And they come and test the system and make sure it's as it's supposed to be. And we just had that done. probably a month ago, just in preparation even for this meeting to make sure, hey, we got everything up and up. And, of course, we passed it with flying collars. We have, what are they, fire extinguishers everywhere as well. So we're pretty – safety is very important to us.

Does that same company take care of any maintenance or service that you need?

Yeah, they do that every year.

And they maintain spare parts and things that you need?

Yep, yep. Okay. Yeah. Good question. That's all.

Jane or Randy, you had a question. Do you have lodging facilities at all?

It's not an overnight thing.

No, and we live there. I mean, certainly an Airbnb might make sense or something, but we live there. We actually love that people eventually leave. We love them, you know, and we have a good time. But it's okay for us. Even the 10 p.m. restriction, we're totally okay with that, you know. So we don't want people to stay, you know. We allow them to park overnight if they need to. Of course, we want them to be safe. But, no, we don't have any lodging other than our house, which there's some woods separating our house from the venue. What's your closest neighbor? How close? I think probably Kenny and Debbie are our closest neighbor, and they're here. Their garage is probably, I don't know, four feet from our driveway.

Four feet? Is that what you said?

Yeah, I don't want to incriminate ourselves. Whatever the zoning ordinance is, I'm sure that's what it is. It's probably 15 feet. Oh, jeez, oh, jeez.

I'm not writing that down at this point.

Oh, my goodness. I was hoping the microphone cut out at that point.

You were granted a PRD back in 2017. Yeah. And what you're wanting to do basically, and it, it had the restrictions to it and you're wanting to expand that. Is that correct?

Yeah. And we didn't own it back in 2017, but yes, all you're saying is correct. Yes.

And so you want to expand the operation in terms of not just restricting it to weekends, but also during days of the week.

That's correct.

Okay. Um, which would result in more people, obviously, if that is successful for you. Now, I didn't see anything in here in your, in your, um, documentation or your application concerning the septic system and how the wastewater is handled. What kind of system do you have out there now?

We have a mound system, if that's what you mean. I'm a little ignorant of it. Maybe Hamilton Construction could speak more to that, put him on the spot a little bit. But we contract with Setsers. Is that how you say their name? Setsers Septic. And they've... helped us with any big events that we have, they would pump it out. We really don't need a lot of their help. But if we had a prom, for instance, of 400, they would come and just help our system. We have a system that has several or multiple huge holding tanks. So it's never not handled anything that we've done there, if that helps.

Well, have you talked to the County health department is what you're wanting to do in terms of expansion and whether the existing system is there would be sufficient.

Right. Um, I'm, uh, I'm no, I've just filed for the zoning piece of it, but I will say this, I think this is relevant, relevant, relevant as well. We mostly want, and that's what we do now. We mostly do weddings on the weekend as far as doing events all through the week. Um, It's rare to do an event during the week, but sometimes we'll do what we call like a micro wedding, which is maybe 50 people, and we'll do it Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. So it's not like that will expand a bunch more business that we're going to do. It's just in the off chance that, hey, somebody wants to do their dream wedding, but they don't have a dream budget. So if they can make it happen Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, and they can have a small, more intimate event, I don't think that really really registers on our septic system as well. Good question, obviously.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Okay. So I'm going to encourage you to get a hold of the county health department. Sure. Because that system that's out there now was designed for a certain capacity.

Yeah, it's in the notes.

Well, I didn't see anything.

Okay.

From the health department.

Okay.

So you might want to check with them to see if what's existing out there now is sufficient for what you're planning.

Perfect. Thank you for that. Yes, yes.

And can I add on to that? So in this letter, does this look familiar? Doug Harden from Miller Architects.

That should be in there. Oh, okay, yeah.

I was going to say, not a conspiracy. You should have it too, Randy. So he looked at the septic designs from when it was permitted by both the state and... County Health Department August 7th of 2018 is when it was permitted per ISDH guidelines and It's that last comment there septic was designed for maximum 300 gallons per day at 5 gallons per person for a total of 2,100 gallons per week or 420 people per week

Well, that's for the existing system with using it on the load that it's taking now. What I'm talking about, if you do get approval for this, that's going to increase significantly, probably. So all I'm saying is you need to contact, you need to make sure that... Not yet. county health department that you're working with them on this.

Okay.

Okay. Cause you don't want to blow this system out.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

You say you're having it pumped from time to time, which is a good idea for maintenance, but this system was designed for the anticipated load that you have now. Yeah. You're looking at expanding.

Well, And forgive me, I don't want to contradict you at all, whatsoever, but... Oh, geez. Well, I'm not going to contradict you. I just think this will be supplemental to what you're saying, is that we're not asking for anything that we're not already doing. So whatever we've been doing has been working, but having said that, what you're saying, I think, is smart to make sure that the system is compliant and make sure that if we need to expand it, we're willing to, for sure.

Well, can we agree with this? More people, probably more wastewater?

Yes, but again, we're asking for what we've already been doing. Does that make sense or is that contradictory? I apologize. Forgive me.

You haven't been doing 400s. What are you saying?

Well, but we're not planning to do 400 like every day of the week or anything. Proms are rare, and 400-person proms are rare. I think we just want to make sure we have your blessing that when they come, we want to accommodate it. But still, what we do mostly are weddings. And that's what we wanted.

I don't want to go on into this. Okay. Okay. I'm just saying that you, cause I don't think what you have now.

Okay.

It's probably going to, they may want to do some additional capacity with that. So you need to check with the county. Thank you.

Yes. Yes. I read in here that if they have a additional, that they bring in.

I think that was on the statement of request specifically for Randy.

Um, we, Our intention, we have a bathroom trailer that if we needed it for like a 400 prom, which we don't do almost ever, is we would have that and then that would just be off-sited. So it would supplement our septic system as well. I would hate, I will say, I would hate to upgrade the system so much for just a small, very, very small use case, which like a 400 would be.

Well, I think you're anticipating something you may not have to do. All I'm saying is that you need to contact with the regulation, the regulatory authority that covers that to make sure that you do have a adequate capacity on that. Thank you.

Thank you.

And one other question, and then I'll be quiet. Down here under, and Kayla, this is for you, there are seven bullet points down here under number two under general findings. Have we had any complaints or anything on the existing system as it is such right now?

We have had no complaints.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. I have a question.

Yes.

Are you anticipating in the original approval that says no outdoor live music

Yeah, I know that. I apologize. That packet you got about this one is pretty thick probably, and I apologize. But it was in there that we want to do outdoor ceremonies as well. So that's a change. It's something that we're asking you guys for. And I think if I remember the reading, it was between 1 and 5. And also just to tell you, ceremonies are very low-key music. Probably neighbors would not even hear it unless they're right adjacent to us or close to that site. If they did hear it, it's love songs, and it's very low-key, very warm music, and then it's very short-lived. It's a maximum of an hour, and it's in the middle of the day. Does that help? It's amplified only, amplified just means like it's not headphones or something. So it's speakers and the officiant is saying, you know, the officiating, so he's miked, so that's amplified as well. But it's all mostly so the people right there immediately can hear it. And are you doing that now? Yes.

Okay. Any other questions from the board for the petitioner?

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you guys for your time as well. Thanks for serving the community.

Can I make an amendment to my staff report? Yes. I know this is a little bit late. Um, number three. So second to last thing here, I wrote it incorrectly. So I would like for the staff report to say if the board grants approval of the petition, it should be based on the following conditions. One, hours of operation. Two, maximum guests 400. Three, I would like to change to if any events consist of over 400 guests combined, so that's combined for the week, then additional restroom facilities will be provided. And that's because I misread it in Doug Harden's letter to us. And then number four would still stay the same.

Okay, can you say number three again? If an event consists of over 400 per week?

If any events consists of over 400 guests combined per week, then additional restroom facilities will be provided.

I get what you're getting at. I may word it differently if we get to that point.

I'm not married to that language.

I understand.

Well, that's another way of approaching what I was trying to get at. You're talking about porta-pots, correct, Kayla?

If they're bathroom trailers or porta-potties?

Or the trailer petitioner referred to, yeah.

Temporary latrines. You got it. All right, thank you.

So you have an event with 200, then another event with 200, you have a third event with 200. For the third event, you want those extra restrooms brought in. Yes. Okay. Yeah, correct. In that week.

Yeah, the way Doug's report reads is that there's plumbing for 300. So a single event should probably be limited to 300. But if they wanted to have multiple events in that week and the attendance would exceed 420, which is what he has his rated septic at, then additional facilities would need to be provided to cover that.

Okay. That's the first I'd heard that number, 420. Where does that come from?

Isn't that in the letter?

The septic was designed for a maximum of 300 gallons per day at five gallons per person for a total of 2,100 gallons per week or 420 people per week. Anything over this would require additional restroom facilities be brought in.

Okay, so the system can handle up to 420 people a week is what he's saying.

Okay. And that information, it was provided by who?

Doug Harden from Miller Architects.

Okay, that's an architect.

No, he's not an architect.

He's not. He works for an architect.

Okay, all right. Well, they don't make that decision, do they? They don't make that decision. It's up to the county health department. I understand. Okay.

All right. Is there anybody here in the audience who wants to speak in favor of this petition? Yes ma'am, if you'd come to the microphone and identify yourself for our records and let us hear what you have to say.

Hi, my name is Holly Simon and I am a next door neighbor to the Duval's and our property is just to the west. We're kind of right next to the driveway. Um, and I will say, uh, this venue and what's been happening there, this family, they are so respectful and responsible. They're very communicative about what's going on there. Any issues that I have, they address them. Um, but as it stands, there's not the noise. None of that has ever bothers. In fact, I really enjoy sitting on my deck and it's quiet. And then all of a sudden just cheers erupt. And I realized, Oh, they've just said I do. So, and it's just lovely. And, um, where our barn is, maybe you don't know this, but sometimes when I'm out doing yard work and there's an event, I stop and I just peek and, and kind of look over there and watch cause it's lovely. But the, but, Even being right next to it, the noise level is not an issue at all, and the traffic hasn't been an issue. Generally, we're just really super supportive of this family and their business and want to see them do well.

Okay. Thank you for that. Anybody else here tonight wants to speak in favor? Yes, sir.

Hi there, my name is Andrew Saltzman. As a part of this community as well, and someone who's been to an event, I can speak on behalf of the... Can you speak closer to the mic? Yes, ma'am, sorry. I can speak on behalf of just the well-managed privacy, respectfulness, and just consistent flow of good efficiency with managing parking and traffic coming in and out. In addition to that, This brings tourism, greater tourism and greater economy to our community, because as these people are bringing in guests from many backgrounds and areas from all around. I was actually an event that there was a Russian couple there and they were speaking a different language to one another, but they still knew English. And I just overheard them, and they were staying at one of the Airbnbs in the county. So just things like that that it's just really cool that, you know, they're bringing in more than just wedding venue income for themselves and the family. It's more for the community as well. It's much more involved. And, you know, they hire people from the community to build their – events and upkeep things that they're not able to that are outside their realms. So anyway, I just wanted to speak on behalf that as a close local, I feel like it's a supported thing.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to speak in favor of this? Yes. Why don't you just come up one at a time and identify yourself and let us hear what you have to say.

Oh, first, I guess.

All right. My name's Kenneth Fields, and I probably live closer to him than anybody. Well, just a pin of his house. I'm closer to a wedding barn. A neighbor behind me might be a little closer, but why wouldn't the county want him to have more events, just all kind of catering vehicles? Buses, bringing people in. They've got to be staying at motels and whatever. I mean, I've got no problem. I've got a problem with the dust, but if he has enough events, maybe he'll blacktop that for me. He won't have that problem. But anyway, they're great people. Heck, he lets me make a little extra money, too, trying to take care of it. So that's all I've got to say. You guys need to come out and check it out because it's just a nice place. I take care of it. Okay. All right.

My name is Mike Douthit, and Teresa and I, my wife, live across the street, not as close as Chris and Holly or Kenny. And I don't come up here as a good friend of Chris. We barely know him, so it's nothing like that. But they're good people. And I think if anybody could pick neighbors, you'd want to pick these guys. We just hit five years there, and to echo what everyone was saying earlier, never had any issues with traffic, noise, any kind of litter or anything like that out there. They've just been really good people to live around.

Thank you.

And I'm Jennifer Hunt and we live at the corner of Hornet Town and 135. So I would anticipate about half their traffic probably comes right around the corner where our driveway is and we've never noticed an increase in traffic or noise or anything from any of the events they've done. Sorry, make some, I don't know why I'm tearing up. They've gone above and beyond to try to create a community feel, and they've created a Facebook page for the residents in the immediate area. So if you had a problem, you would be able to contact them. He's offered to grade our driveway for us. They've been very good neighbors. And I had no idea that they were under any kind of restrictions, which they didn't either. But it hasn't caused any problems with any of the neighbors. Nobody's complained in six years for them to do the exact same thing that they're asking to do legally now. So anyway, I'm in favor of it.

Okay. Thank you.

I'm Vicki Blake, and my husband Cal and I run Brown County Shuttle Service. And when we started the business, we started working, I think, with the previous owners, didn't we? And just briefly, I'd just say they're very conscious of safety. They do their utmost to convince the bride and groom to hire our service. to keep people from drinking and driving. And I have to say, every time we've been up there and my husband goes, usually he's driving the bus, there's no loud noise. There's nothing. The wedding ceremonies are quiet. They do move inside then, and then they do have loud music. But They've been great to work with. We work with almost every wedding venue in the county and I have to say they're the most professional that we've worked with and probably utilize us more than anybody. I really wish more wood for the safety. But the other thing is, as I encourage them, is to stay in Brown County, because I do end up coordinating with them and the bride as to where they stay and where we're picking them up. And so you have to look at the economic development that a facility like theirs, and I have to agree with everybody, please go look at it. It is a beautiful facility. And Chris has done a great job in constantly upgrading it, so. we're very much in favor of it. They're good people to work with.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Sheldon Hamilton. I want to start off with speaking about the septic. If that was going to be anything to affect your guys' decision, because the way the septic is set up is it is set up for know 400 guests but the way the way the system is on a timer it only releases so many gallons to the field at a certain amount of time as it takes it so the holding tanks there's there's several holding tanks i think there's three because i dug them um i've been involved with the wedding barn since 2016. we built the barn did all the timber framing and everything that's involved cut a lot of the lumber from my from my sawmill and uh so the septic was one of the unfortunately it was one of the last things he went approached and he, the previous owner did get fine, getting a little bit of trouble for doing it the way he did, but they made it right. And the way the system set up, I'm sure there's not going to be a problem with the amount of people with the timing system it has. So, so I don't feel like that's a concern. Just, just if that was going to, you know, lean you guys one way or the other. Um, talk to a lot of, I do a lot of work. I own Hamilton construction trucking and I do a lot of work for a lot of cabins, Melanie pool, all the pools. I build a lot of their cabins. Um, and I bet you've probably worked for over a hundred different cabin builders and, or Airbnb owners and probably 75% of them say that timber Ridge is, is a very regular customer. They, you know, they always ask their customers where they're coming from. So I think the, I think that the, uh, business that the timber Ridge brings to the community is definitely definitely an uplifting. Um, the other thing was, um, the, the, the work that they do, they, they do, they, they, they don't settle for less than the best. They, they, they, nothing over there's cheap. They do very good. They have very good taste. It's a very appealing, a very appealing place to go to. So I think, I mean, I think it would be a shame for it not to get approved for what they're asking for just to do what, just from what the, they bring to the community. So thank you.

All right. Appreciate it. Anybody else here want to speak in favor of this petition? Oh yes, ma'am.

Hi.

I'm Catherine Bailey and I am a contractor for the Barnett timber edge. Um, I've been with them since they bought the barn, uh, five years ago and six years ago. And before that I was with the previous owner. So I've been there since the day it was built. Um, so me, my staff members, um, several of my family members work for the Barnett timber edge. And if this wouldn't get approved, it would really put, a halt on our income, what we do, so we're just really hopeful that you guys would be in favor for the Barneton Bridge.

Thanks. Thanks for that. Anybody left who wants to speak in favor? Okay, anybody here tonight want to speak against this petition? I don't see a soul, so I'll bring this back to us on the board to discuss and make a decision on. I'll start with you, Mike.

First of all, I want to say I support this, but I want to make sure that the county does what it needs to do to make this a safe facility. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong, but when you increase the number of people There's a lot of things that change, and I understand that's not every event. Kayla and I talked the other day about sprinkled buildings. You get to 300 on a normal circumstance, you have a fully sprinkled building. There may or may not be a waiver for that. Mr. Hardin's letter falls far short of describing all the things that need to be looked at, and I won't go into a lot of detail, but he talks about doors, but he doesn't say anything about panic hardware, he doesn't say anything about pull stations to the door, he doesn't say anything about exit lights, he doesn't say anything about emergency egress lighting. Now, Miller Architect's a very competent group, but The building's nine years old. A lot of codes change every three years. So the requirements may not be the same. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak to those. My work experience exposed me to some of this, and I was a building official at one time. One thing that does concern me is the site. You've got basically a quarter mile driveway that's really a one lane road. And if you have a major event and everybody evacuates, I've got concern about where the people congregate safely. I'm worried about people exiting and fighting a fire truck coming in. These are problems that can be solved, and I have every confidence that these people, from what I've heard tonight, are going to work with us to solve those problems. I just want to make sure that we do our due diligence looking at this and These code reviews are not an easy thing to do. The codes are very complicated. They're conflicting stuff in them. And I just want to make sure that we help these people make this a successful thing by making it safe. Okay. All right.

So did you have anything specific you wanted to add to the recommendations then if we approve it?

No, the building department will evaluate this. They'll come in and do an inspection, and they'll probably find everything's fine. They'll make their own evaluation. They'll look at ADA requirements for the toilets, for example.

And that has already all been done. I was able to speak with Lonnie this afternoon, and that was all done previously. So we still have the building plans, and that is how it was built. So Lonnie is under the impression, since they're not remodeling, they're not doing anything to change the structures, and we're assuming that they haven't, I guess, built new walls to make the bathrooms non-ADA compliant, because all those things were met previously.

Well, I said there may not be the same codes today. They may be, but like I said, when I was working under this, the code was changed every three years.

Yeah, we're using the 2020 Indiana Residential Code, so I can ask Lonnie to go through and see if anything else has changed.

I'm not criticizing anybody. Sure. It's a big deal. You have 400 people in here, and things that you can't imagine go wrong. Right. I'm just... I'm trying to put emphasis on it. I'm not trying to criticize or anything.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right. Thanks for that. Darla, any, any thoughts?

No, I don't have any problem with granting it. It sounds like from the neighbors, it's been so quiet that they don't even know they're there most of the time, which is not what we usually hear with private recreational development.

So yeah, that's an understatement. Um, Randy, um,

Yeah, based upon the testimony that I heard here this evening, I think it speaks volumes with respect to your past history on running the business and your compliance and everything else. It seems like you've been in compliance with the PRD that was issued and everything, so that's always nice to hear and nice to see. I'm like Mike. Mr. Hardin's letter does not hold much water with me, because I always feel better when there's something in here from the health department in terms of permit or approval. We don't see that. So that was my reason for encouraging you to check with him. Other than that, I have no concerns with this.

Jane, any thoughts?

I think it all looks good.

I don't have a problem with it.

I also don't have a problem with it. Normally when these requests come to us for private recreational development or a change to an approved private recreational development, we don't have six to ten years of operating experience to draw upon. So we don't get this kind of testimony from neighbors and individuals who interact with the business to help us get an idea of what it would be like when it operates. On the one hand, yeah, I'm sorry you operated without getting your approval for a long time. On the other hand, you were able to document a track record that suggests there's no reason why we shouldn't approve this, in my opinion.

Can I ask another question of the petitioner? Sure. When you bought the property, did you have a title search done?

Yes.

And the previous restrictions with the PRD didn't show up as part of the title search? No.

I'm trying to think of the best way to answer it. If it did, it's not something that we noticed. Yeah, maybe so. I think the thought, too, was that there's already 30 events, so we thought, well, surely they're operating under what they're allowed to. But good question. I mean, in hindsight, there's a lot of things that you're like, oh, geez, why didn't we be more detailed about these kind of things?

All right, thank you.

Yes, sir, go ahead. I was here. I was here.

Would you identify yourself again?

Kenneth Fields.

Thanks.

I was here the first time it got approved with Mike Fink. And I tell you, I never heard nothing about just Saturday night. I did hear the 10 o'clock restriction, and he brought that on itself, and I thought, what are you doing? But anyway, I did not hear just Saturday events only. And I was here. Okay. Yep.

All right. Well, I don't... You ready for a motion? Yes.

Okay. I move that we accept docket number 26SE07 for amendment to a special exemption docket number 17SE13 for special... Private recreational development.

All right.

Would you be okay if we amended that motion to add some conditions on there?

Yes, that would be appropriate.

All right. Then I would amend to add that the hours of operation will be between 10 a.m. and 10 p.m., That the maximum number of guests for any single event will be 400. That if any single event consists of more than 300 guests, additional restroom facilities will be provided. That if the total number of events in a single week exceeds 420 guests, then additional restroom facilities will be provided. And that any outdoor ceremony will be held between the hours of 1 and 5 p.m. and will have minimal noise.

Second. I'll second the amended motion.

Did you mention Monday through Sunday?

No, because I just said if any event is between the hours of 10 a.m. and 10 p.m., I didn't specify a day because I didn't see much point.

And then we had how many people seconded?

Okay.

Roll call vote when you're ready, Daniel.

Darla Brown. Yes. Randy Jones.

Yes.

Jane Gore. Yes. John Dilberger.

Yes.

Michael Harrison.

Yes. Okay. You're approved. You can operate in compliance now.

Darla, it's the second week in a row that I've called somebody by their wrong name. I am horrible about names anyway, and I'm still getting to know the people, so I apologize.

You can have them. You can have them if you want.

Okay, I'll take it home to my wife. I'll let her see it.

Thanks for asking. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Okay.

Any announcements or any updates? Oh my goodness.

No kidding. Should we start maybe an hour earlier? I've had the notices already gone out.

Yeah, I could start an hour earlier. How about anybody else? I could. I could.

Seven to eight? Is that what you said, Kayla?

We have seven now, and she thinks we might get eight.

Well, that's a load.

Well, before we get there, are you guys okay if we started at five instead of six?

I don't have a problem with it.

I'm fine.

Okay. All right. Then maybe I'll, before we get into what the agenda items are, unless you think it will affect your decision. Okay. Read the agenda items you got.

Okay, so we've got one tourist home amendment, two new tourist homes, another amendment, and I didn't write down what that one was for, and then a variance from a specific ordinance, and then two setback variances.

What's the amendment about the ordinance again?

So they want to amend... They want to get a variance from the accessory dwelling unit ordinance. Okay, gotcha. And I'm not sure. I've got to work with Dave on that to see kind of where the legality lies there.

Okay, got it.

Well, that's kind of a hodgepodge of a number of things, isn't it?

It is. Kind of interesting. We were 90 minutes tonight, and we didn't have any controversy.

Yeah, I guess it comes down to do you want to start early or do you want to go late? I'd rather start early.

I don't know if you're working. I don't know what you're... But I'm self-employed. Oh, there you go. Same here.

So I can move on.

Can you be here early?

Okay. Okay, then... Why don't we plan to meet at 5 in July?

July 29th.

July 29th at 5. We'll start instead of 6. Thanks for letting us know, Kayla.

Yes, thank you.

Yeah, come on up to the microphone and share it with us.

Just because I happen to be here, I just came for this, but Jennifer Hunt. Thanks. Recently, there have been a bunch of data centers coming up in Indiana, and there seems to be a community-wide consensus that it wouldn't be a good idea for Brown County. And what would it take to pass a zoning thing that would restrict zoning so it wouldn't allow data centers and the Also, those farms, the methane farms, what would it take to change that in our zoning? Because two counties have already banned data centers in Indiana, according to the Indiana University thing.

I think the county commissioners have to amend the ordinance.

Yeah, I mean, it would need to come in front of the Plain Commission as well. But one of the things about Brown County is that these things require an enormous amount of electricity and water. And I just don't know if anybody would It's like over in Monroe County, we don't have a solar farm ordinance because there's just really no good place to put a solar. I'm fine with that.

It's just that I'd feel more comfortable if we just made it because once they, this is the problem with them. It's like they talk to the commissioners, they sign a nondisclosure agreement. Nobody in the community has any time to get together and oppose it until they It's already basically decided, and then they host a pretend community meeting like two days before, and they rubber stamp it. And I would feel there's some good land in Van Buren that they could do something with if they wanted to.

We have wells. Well, the thing is, if I could try to answer your question a little bit. Yeah. They, whoever they may be, this consortium that you're talking about, they're going to look in an area to see if it would be able to sustain a data center. And like Dave said, they use a lot of water. And Brown County just doesn't have that resource to really pull on, in my opinion.

So if there's no opposition to it, why don't we just codify it? And then we don't have to worry about... whether somebody will want to come in with one. Why don't we just make it, if nobody's opposed to it, I haven't met a single person in Brown County that's been like, oh, that would be a great addition. I'd love to sell my land to Microsoft to build a data center. If nobody's opposed to it, why don't we just, I mean, why don't we just ban it?

All right, I understand your argument.

Yeah, I mean, because I haven't heard a single person say they were in favor of data centers here.

Right, right.

And there are, like you've said, both of you have said, there are better locations for them. I'm just, I'd feel a little bit more comfortable if we didn't have to worry about it.

So like Barney Fife says, nip it in the bud.

Yeah, nip it in the bud. Make us stand.

Well, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Why not just make a stand against it? Like, no, we're a rural county. We are all about natural resources. We're not into that. And the cow farm thing, you know, if we're going to ban stuff, that actually probably could come to Brown County if we didn't have any regulations against factory farming.

I think Brown County only has one CAFO. Only one confined feeding operation right now.

So what would we need to do? My advice would be to talk to the county commissioners. Okay. Two county commissioners can say whether they come to Brown County or not lawfully.

But nothing can come from zoning without the county commissioners putting it through zoning to begin with?

Not through this board. The plan commission would have to become involved as well. Okay. Because they would have to conduct a hearing. But the commissioners could initiate the rezoning change.

Okay, and then I had one more thing that's completely unrelated. How would we go about getting dark sky, like being a dark sky county? Because there have been a few others. I know of one other Indiana kind of state park town that became a dark sky thing, and then it kind of, we're already, I think we would already meet the qualifications, but it would kind of unite the county that we want to see sun, our sun during the day and stars at night.

How would we do this? You're talking about cutting back on them.

Go to the county commissioners first? Okay.

Same thing. Yeah. You're talking about cutting back on illumination? Is that what you're saying?

No, I think we could already do it. I think just not having new illumination. And then when people replace their lights, I mean, this is from astronomy like 30 years ago. When they replace the lights for the streets, you'd want them to be hooded facing downward instead of, you know, going outward, things like that. But nothing, I don't think any of this stuff would prohibit us from doing it with all the businesses and things the way it is right now. it would just be like for future, you'd have these kind of guidelines to make it where the animals could sleep at night and everybody could rest and see the stars and nature like God intended. So it wouldn't necessarily change anything now. It could change future development as far as, and I'm not even actually sure if that's the dark sky thing is an actual zoning law or if it's just like a generally accepted, you know,

think I don't know like you I don't know if that's if the county decided that they wanted to officially become a dark sky yeah I think I don't know if they establish guidelines and make recommendations or if they actually amend the zoning ordinance and put in got you know requirements for lighting and that's okay I don't know which I don't know either

but it was something that's been on my mind for about four years, so.

Is it law or is it guidelines?

I think it might be a guideline, but I guess anything could be a law if you wanted it to be.

Well, I believe our development code already, we have some restrictions already on it.

Oh, no, it's the designation, though, and then people would know, like, I forget which other state park town did it, but then they had, they promoted it as part of the town culture that we're a dark sky community, and, you know, it just makes it, I guess it'd be more for promotion because we've already met probably most of the guidelines they have, if not all of them, so...

Yeah, presented as a economic development opportunity to attract amateur astronomers.

Yes, in charge of a dollar to come to see it. Yes. So that's all I have. Thank you.

Thanks. Anything else from that table over there?

Okie doke.

All right. Then I'll move we adjourn this meeting.

Second.

Danielle, roll call vote to adjourn when you're ready.

Okay. John Dilberger?

Yes. Yes.

Carla Brown.

Yes.

Randy Jones. Yes.