Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

Okay, are we ready, Master Dave? Yes. Okay.

Turn your microphones on for you, everybody.

I guess not. You ready? Okay. I call this meeting to order of the Brown County Area Planning Commission on June 23, 2026 at 612. BN, roll call.

Carol Bowden?

Present.

Jim Allen's absent.

Jane Gore?

Here.

Ray Jones? Here. Garrett Hamas is absent. Andy Boyles? Yes. Carol Deckard is absent. Next, we have approval of minutes for the meeting on May 26, 2026. Do I have the motion? So moved.

Second.

Any discussion? Roll call.

Andy Boyles?

Yes. Carol Bowden?

Yes.

Jane Gore? Yes. Randy Jones? Yes.

Okay. Mission carries. Next is we don't have any old business. We don't have any new business. We have the business of David discussing steps to comply with the House Enrolled Act 1001 and the House Bill 1210. Well,

I put together a draft ordinance to address most of these recent update requirements. And I guess just sort of going through them, There are provisions now for indoor shooting ranges and requirements that they be allowed in all business zones, essentially, with very few conditions. There are, and then along with that, sporting goods stores. You have to allow those in your commercial districts. Changes the, basically, sort of, requires you to adopt a certain definition of manufactured home and mobile home, which is not significantly different than the one that you already have. It puts a bunch of requirements on housing, which you'll have to have a hearing by the end of the year to talk about how your ordinances affect housing affordability and availability. And the American Planes Association Indiana section has put together an outline Kayla has that I think will be very helpful on sort of creating an agenda for those hearings and having topics to address. Let me see what else we have in here. definitions on mixed-use residential. We haven't had that as a definition because you don't have to allow indoor shooting ranges in mixed-use residential. There are no provisions about outdoor shooting ranges. So that's not addressed and that's something you can decide whether you want to add to this and address. Accessory dwelling uses, they have some requirements on those. They came up with a definition that has some criteria in it, some limitations in the definition, which I think is a bad practice, because if you say this is defined as something that has these three characteristics, and somebody comes in and says, I only have two of those characteristics, so I'm not really I don't fit within the definition, and so I'm not excluded or regulated or whatever. So I think it's better to define the basic use, and then if you have any conditions, like if you have an accessory dwelling, it can only be 1,000 square feet or something like that. Put that as a separate limitation. It's just cleaner. and I think better going forward. There's some provisions on shooting ranges saying, hey, if they're in existence before 1996, you have to let them go. You continue as a non-conforming use. For indoor ranges? Indoor ranges, yeah.

And it tied, you said that there was language to indoor ranges, to zoning requirements, like

You have to allow indoor ranges in your commercial districts, in your non-residential districts.

General business.

Yeah, general business, probably industrial. And accommodation business, I suppose. I was driving down Carmel Center Drive not too long ago in Hamilton County and there's an indoor shooting Yeah, yeah. And I've never heard any complaints about them. So not even when Don's Guns was in operation. A couple provisions on removals of members for playing commissions and boards of zoning appeals. In the past, they could only be removed from office for cause. and you know that means that they they were derelict in their duty or whatever they didn't they never showed up or whatever now um as long as the the it says the members serve at the pleasure of the appointing body and can be removed for any reason by the body that appointed them if the member as that when they were appointed. Otherwise, it's for a cause. So, you know, you read a lot of these new statutes and you wonder what single county or town got ticked off and came up with this crazy thing, but hey, it happens and we have to deal with it. So that's I was going to have Kayla and the office look at it before we circulate that. They go into effect July 1, but as long as you know what these new rules are, you just follow them, whether your ordinance matches up or not, because basically you have to. And we'll try to get that squared away as quickly as possible. There's a lot of... A lot of amendments to the building code put a whole new section in the code about Class 2 structures, which are the residential uses, and requiring building departments to notify the applicants in writing within so many days of whether the application is complete. You have to email it to them. with a read receipt on your email, and if you don't get the read receipt within a day of sending it, then you have to send out a first class letter to them notifying them that their application is complete.

What application?

For a building permit. So they can't just issue it at the desk anymore? That's the whole point. It's like, yeah, most Most places you walk in and you get your building permit within a day. And so they've come up with all these added things to do that don't really apply to most places. Do we have to do them? Well, my feeling is if you issue the permit, then I wouldn't worry about it because nobody can complain about it.

There has been confirmation within 24 hours.

It's basically to say that substitutes preventable issues are certainly associated with this statute.

It's like 36.7, 2.5, and then it's just follow-up. So, and again, maybe the state has written that legislation. That's the commissioners.

We're building the price and stuff. It's also for commissioners to consider fee regulations. So they're down to a fee by the end of the year after.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

It's the same thing applied to the other. It seems unlikely that someone will come in within the next month and say, you know, there's a new range of all sorts of stories and stories. It's possible. It's possible.

Well, I mean, can we have that reference? It happened a couple of days ago. It's just that, you know, you guys think that, don't you?

You guys think that, don't you?

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm not going to point a blank in green, but somewhere it used to be. That's it.

Have you seen some of the signs of building?

Here's our should be made an example to deal with things in the path of the program. Do you have a mind list? I don't, but I can give you a few.

Just about commitments, things like that, the process for accepting and breaking commitments, in the sense of interjection and approvals, does it apply to the EPA as well as the commission? Okay. they get going on it, the zoning ordinance changes and it's no longer allowed to use.

And as I was saying, hey, we should be allowed to continue with the use that we intended to put this property to, even though you changed the zoning ordinance. And in the past, there have been a lot of court cases about, well, you know, that's reasonable if somebody has extended an important amount of money Well, it doesn't matter whether you spend a lot of money or not. If you just get a building permit,

So they've actually changed that around a little bit. So just changing this, we're sitting here.

You've been in the fire for a long time.

Okay.

Why is it the same? Why is it the same?

It is, but I'm not...

Yeah, it's just, you can imagine where these things are coming from. But, you know, up north, I mean, you may have, you may have a project that has 300, you know, lots to it. And they want to start building. And they can finish in 24 months.

Yeah.

this kind of stuff, if he approves it, it's perfect. And Donnie, in that case, you built it for me. What? Yeah.

How long did you get it approved from the inspector now that I don't know? If they're certified, that's right. So Donnie can approve something that Johnson can't?

No. A client's inspector could approve something from a closet. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. And so, I guess two points. One, the good thing about that is, is if you do that, then the county's off a couple of other building laws. Because it's on the practice inspector, they have to be insured and so forth.

So the county's office.

not unrealistic if someone's doing multifamily or something like that.

Now, I wanted to say, yeah, I can't get into it, and that's fine, but So if one goes ahead and does it three weeks later, or whenever he gets to it, he's doing all the work for free.

It doesn't make sense to me.

So you're saying that they're developing a group to purchase land, not come into the ACC, but go to a private inspector.

No, they have to come. They have to come. As I said before, they can do a plan, do their thing, come in and say, here's my suspected plan. Yes. Yes. I'm sure some of this is probably...

Thank you.

And how can you solve this?

I don't know. I saw the same thing. I had an idea when I was looking at it. You know, I just want to slow down a little bit. Okay.

... ... ... ... ... ...

Thank you. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

I'll see what that... That doesn't apply until next year. Oh, okay.

So until that's incorporated into our development firm, this is all going to be continued towards March. I'll put it back on the line, but I think James will leave me at that.

That's the statement I was going to make.

Yes.

I agree.

So the list that I've asked and discussed about, is that really something, I mean, since the last time you reviewed some problems that need to be addressed, that we can, I know we can kind of focus on a different area, but there are some of those things that we need to go ahead and get addressed.

So do you have a plan for now? So, I know that Teresa right now is actually looking at, that's what we've seen over and over again, the American people, our organizations, I was reading this initially in the actual agreement with American Legal

is that there was something about sudden planning or something of that nature that may not be covered. So we need to sit down and have a conversation with her because we may already be taking steps in order to get ourselves up to speed, speed limits and color purposes and whatever they may be calling it.

. . .

Thank you. What's that look like to me? It sounds like she believes in the majority of the calls on the PCC. I don't know. I don't know that information. It sounds like something that has to be sent to her before the commissioners. So, in a sense, something that has to be submitted, I believe, by January.

So, if you have an outline of what that's going to take, it has to be done by our half, and you have to do

Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

He's technically in his own department.

He's technically in his own department. But if he ever moves out of our department, then he's probably going to have to do another thing.

And I'm not going to be there to teach him.

We all work together substantially.

Are you a supervisor?

I think I'm totally aware of that. Yes.

as long as he supervises himself.

In his department as it is now. I can't believe it.

Okay.

Kevin, if they were to ask Edison whether Counties have the resources to be able to do what they're asking, wouldn't it? But they didn't do that like getting back to what Dave was saying. No, they didn't. There's a lack of communication.

If you're looking for that, I'm going to look for the paper version. I think I might know where it's at.

I can forward this to you, email this to you if you want.

Trying to find digital emails.

Would you share a copy with the commissioners of that outline?

And then I can share it with the APC also whenever we meet next week.

Did any county commissions get any information from the state association when this was going on? You know what I'm talking about. Did they hear anything from her? Nothing was said about her?

No. I didn't even know that all this was in effect. I don't watch the news. Probably shouldn't. But until they came in and told us, well, yeah, I'm running my own tourist home on July 1st, I'm allowed to. I didn't hear that. So she had said that she was going to, she was already starting to rent her home out as a tourist home because we're not allowed to tell her that she can't after July 1st. And so that's when we started looking into these things. But Dave had already been working with Monroe County Building Commissioner on the 1001, the other one.

Jamie Palmer is what I was trying to say.

Yeah, Jamie Palmer just said that it came from J.D. Plumberford.

Okay, any discussion? Any more discussion?

My turn now?

Yes. Thank you.

I'm not sure I need to bring this up. I'm going to do it anyway. I think it would be good with us, Dave, and I think Ada had talked about this as well with somebody else, but I think it's also, there seems to be a lot of confusion on spot zoning. I'd like for us to discuss that collectively and hear what you have to say about that, exactly what your interpretation is on what it is, what it's not, why it should be, why it shouldn't. I've had that thrown out of my face a lot after meetings. I don't know about the rest of the planning commission, the same response from each of us on what our interpretation of spot zoning might be. So I'd just like some clarification on that.

I can make an overview of my understanding of spot zoning right now.

Well, I'm not suggesting we do it now since we have a... Unless... I'll leave it up to the members. They want to wait or they want to hear now.

It's pretty simple. I have this in front of you a lot.

Section 3674603 says when you rezone property, you have these five considerations. Responsible development of the road, competence of plan, you know, all that kind of stuff. Property values in the jurisdiction.

then it's not a spot of zone.

A spot of zone is, in my mind, a zoning decision that is not justified, that is just arbitrary and capricious, and that it doesn't have any relationship to any of your planning instruments or your comprehensive plan or anything like that.

Now, can I stop you for just a second? You used the word commissioners. Are you talking about planning commission or are you talking about planning commissioners?

Well, ultimately, it's county commissioners.

You might have a whole large agricultural area, or a large residential area, and you might decide to zone a small patch of land in the middle of that, commercially.

And you'd say, hey, that's not a residential area.

So some people will take that spot on and other people will say, no, that makes perfect sense. It's convenient for the residents of that area to have some opportunity to get groceries or nearby groceries or gas or whatever. But it needs to benefit the neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. Not the same. I guess that's right. Yeah. I mean, that's right. That's right.

So not to extend this already, what if the county decided that we need more manufacturing and that's exactly what we want to do with it.

Why wouldn't we be able to carve out an area and say hey that's a great place. I'll give you an example if I can.

I'm 28 years here. No, I've got 12 elders. It's in Colman, a small town. And I want to put a village pantry right in the middle of that, which would have to be resale for general business. Sponsor me with my, whatever. And I don't show any justification for it.

That would be sponsored. Yeah, but if it's not. Now let me stop you right there.

Who thinks that's a good idea? Does that still spot something? Or do we have a justification to go ahead and rezone it based on that?

Is there a term that's thrown around not really enforceable? Someone could say to our board, you guys are guilty of spot zoning.

You made that approval even though people were against it or even though that wasn't what it was zoned for, you allowed that be caused.

But spot zoning is really hard to define and easy to justify.

and there's a record of you having When you get the voting finger shoved in your face, you explain why you wrote the way you did it. It depends whether it's a response call or not. But we say because we consider the factors that state legislation requires us to consider. We balance those factors, and we think that on a whole, this was a reasonable idea.

Or you tell them the truth, and you decide that that morning when you woke up that you were going to read.