Area Plan Commission (apc) - Regular Meeting

We'll call out discussions and then you guys will call yours to order because we still have to do minutes and all that. Right.

Park it there, boy. And Dave Shilling on his way. He said we can go. Okay. I'm going to wait till somebody sits down here. Yeah, that's what we're trying to figure out. You would think, but then like what? Oh, I'm sorry.

Good evening and welcome to the Brown County Area Planning Commission on April 28, 2026 at 6 PM. Um, for those who are in the room, please turn off their phones or put everyone on silent and uh, no side conversation because it impairs people to be able to hear what's going on. And with that, um, B County Planning Commission order roll call. Carol Bowen, present. Tim Allen here. Jane Gore here. Randy Jones here. Hammonds. Andy Boils here. Kyle Becker.

Um, do I have an approval of minutes from March 24, 2026? I'll move to approve the minutes of March 24th, 206 as submitted. Second. Second. Any discussion? Roll call. Tim Allen. Yes. Bangor. Yes. Randy Jones, yes. Andy Boils, yes. Carol Bowen.

Yes. Okay. We have no old business. We have no new business. We are now down to discussions, announcement, and inspectors report. We are having a joint meeting of the Brown County Area Planning Commission and the Brown County Board of Commissioners to discuss the preparation adaptation or any other proposed options uh that the board of commission or the commission will suggest regarding the Brown County comprehensive plan. Okay. Tim Clark. I call the Brown County Board Commissioners meeting to order. The commissioners present. All three is Tim Clark, Kevin Patrick, and Ron Sanders. All right. Want me to kick it off? Sure.

Or you guys want to kick it off? How you want to do it? All right. Well, let me explain the materials. I passed on the uh on your email. I think you got the packet. Um started with Brank County. You bring that up. Uh Daniel. Okay. This one. the residential bedroom community with tourism. Um, I'll go over that on the screen. I'll just highlight. No, it's not that one. It's the other one.

Should look like this. The front page when that comes up. And you guys got that this in your email without the yellow highlights. And then I what I did, we printed out an enclosure of one U so you wouldn't have to print it out from the uh the other handout. I've got a lot of links in there and uh yeah, that's it. All right. And then I've got a couple maps just maybe we'll get to that point just to give you a little context. I've got a Brown County township and census track box on the far left on the whiteboard. So you can see the townships and I overlaid it with census tracks which is a population by those particular areas that include the low to moderate income levels and then I showed you just a different map of the townships that have a little more features in it. And so one of the matrices I'll introduce in here will break things down by township. Um correct me if I'm wrong. this my best memory, but we started this uh the update to the comprehensive plan back in 2024, the fall. The foundation had $27,000 they could give that had to be spent in a certain amount of time or committed. Then the APC kicked in 10 $10,000. We had a short window um to get committee input, use survey uh you through social media or any other way we get the survey out to get the responses. Um and then we had uh two meetings on the same day. Two public meetings same day in Nashville. And then you had several working session groups, you know, went through all the input that was provided by the consultant and the working group and the survey information and the feedback you got from those two meetings and and then came up with the uh comprehensive plan. Draft three, I think, is where we're at. Right.

Well, we started with the definitions. Okay. updating all the definitions because they were top dated. That was where we started and had to complete that. That was that we did um from a grant from a financial grant and then was moving on to all right now we got to take look at the ordinances and start to update them appropriately for what's going on.

Okay. Um, so what we did when the commissioners, we took took a look at the comprehensive plan. We looked at it. Our concern was was the, uh, was the need for more community engagement. And so, uh, that was our biggest concern is do we get the voice of everybody in the county to update a comprehensive plan that would drive development and planning. And so that was our biggest concern. So we we kind of table it. Um, at that point, what we did is we asked the RDC to come up with some kind of with a community engagement kind of kind of strategy. But the first thing we did, we asked them, we wanted to look to see if we could get that grant from OKRA for the $60,000 comprehensive plan. So that's where the census track data came from to calculate the LMI. Uh the Census Bureau did that one. And the LMI came out with 40.4%. You needed 53.1% to qualify for an Opra OPER uh loan, that comprehensive plan. And we were nowhere close. Obviously, um income has gone up significantly over the last few years. And so we looked at the census track data and we talked to Ochre and say, "Hey, can we if we kicked out a couple of these census tracks, you know, would we qualify or would you accept it?" And they were absolutely no. There's no way you're going to qualify based on the LMI uh to get the 60,000. So then what we did is is worked with the RDC and came up and we applied for the uh rural economic development grant um to help build community engagement was the whole point. And uh so we put together a grant. Our grant administrator helped us with that one. We put the information together, put the grant, say, "Hey, we'd like help developing a community capability to support updates, comprehensive plan that we'd go countywide with this thing." And so, uh, you know, I thought it was pretty thorough application, but, uh, they came back and said, "Well, they didn't approve it because we didn't have a community capability." So, it's like a catch 22. We needed help to develop, but they said since you didn't have it, that didn't really meet the qualifications they were looking for in the in the red grant.

And what was the the red green? Yeah, it's a rural economic development. Uh I think that's the term they called it red and nest from ochre and that was Ball State that was involved and you know that's the ready grant.

No, that's different. That's different. That's totally different. And so we did qualify for that one. And then we had the RDC take a look at at what would you uh how would we do a community engagement kind of strategy for the county? And then that led really to to where we're at today is what would that look like? if we were to evolve the community, how would we do it? How would we roll it out? Could we do a prototype in some place and use that elsewhere? So, that kind of brought us up to here. So, that's kind of the background of where we're at on this one. Um, one of the things on the first page and you look at the first paragraph is is what are we? What's our story? Um so often um when you think of Brown County and even if you look at the regional opportunity initiative website uh which uh which oversees development in our region with several counties when you look at the brand county website it's a focus on Nashville and tourism. Well we're more than that but yet that's how they market us but that's not that's not that's not what we are. That's not the total picture. And so when you look at that, what I try to do in a paragraph is look at Brand County, Indiana, try to do a story and and the story in the comp plan uh is do we get can we get a consensus on what that common vision would be, what that common story would be. And so here I've got Brian County, Indiana is a community defined not by conventional economic development metrics, but by its extraordinary natural landscape, rural character, and the quality of life it affords its residents. With a total adjusted gross income exceeding $510 million, of which tourism contributes approximately 21 million in gross wages, the county's economic engine is fundamentally driven by its role as a high-income bedroom community, a destination for retirees, an attractive home for residents commuting outside the county for work and for remote workers who benefit from the county's expanding broadband coverage. This coverage now reaches approximately 85 to 90% of the population. This demographic supports

local businesses in the county including construction, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, tree service, property management, retail, and other amenities provided by the tourism ministry. And again, we also have a population of folks in the load of moderate income levels. And we applied for the $500,000 ochre grant for the rehabilitation homes. And so that's in process. So we're trying to catch both here. And so ultimately too, the our identity is built on a deliberate policy of high income taxes and low property taxes. Majority of our income is coming in from income taxes. And we have the lowest property tax rate in the state. That attracts that's a that's a driver for second homes. It's a driver for for tourist rentals. Uh it's a driver for for rents as well. and and we've got a lot of people living outside the county that benefit from those rentals, but we also have a lot of residents that benefit from those tourist rentals as well. So, it's part of our part of our economic base in supporting the assessment. There's a research conducted by Ball State and Morton Marcus. Ball State, you know, it's it's kind of a bad thinking, but when we did the uh ready when we did the Stellar grant back when and didn't and and didn't get the first round, Ball State offered to come in and do a community readiness initiative for change. And so they developed an assessment, had a lot of people involved in that one, and they basically

Can I interrupt? Yeah. When was that, Denn? 2016, I think it was. 2016. Okay.

Yep. And so Ball State at the time they said uh and then there's a good article in the paper on the best bets for local economy but it's really five categories that they that they recommended is housing attracting more residents, recreation was number one and two wholesale production retail and I think the uh business side had a little different arrangement on what those would be. I think they may have had housing as number three but that's the Ball State thing. And if you look at our numbers and you look at where the income stream is coming, they're probably right on on the housing. When you look and I I track the income and when you look at the over 50,000 on income has been steadily increasing the 50 and below is steadily decreasing. So we're getting more of the higher income and when you look at those at adjusted gross income which is a base of our income tax uh you can see the higher incomes co resulted a lot more people moving down here as well. And then recreation, uh, when you talk to a lot of people, that's a big driver. That's new. Uh, the whole bicycle thing is new. The mountain biking, and it's not so much the mountain biking. You see that at the state park, for instance, on the mountain biking, but it's more than that. Um, gravel is a is a big attractor here. Our gravel roads attracts a certain segment of the bicycles. And there's bic several different bikes that specialize in just gravel roads. And then, of course, the pave roads. So, you're getting a lot more people down here doing the biking, the mountain biking, the gravel roads, the pave roads, and just love that terrain. And I've seen different heat maps of different populations that come down here on the weekend. It's pretty significant. And then what happens is you get those folks that come down that younger demographic and you can kind of see these uh it's kind of funny when you see these Mercedi Benz $100,000 vehicles, you know, with about $30,000 worth of bikes on the back end and and they and they come down for recreation and then they stop at a restaurant or see a music center event. Um and then they look at it and say, "Hey, this wouldn't be a bad place to live." And so we're attracting that particular demographic that like to live in a in a

rural area but yet want the amenities that recreation provides and that the tourism business offers. So and I've talked to several people and they go, "Well, if you didn't have the restaurants and you didn't have the music center, you didn't have this, I wouldn't be interested. I would have moved to Zansville." So all that thing contributes to attracting a new demographic down here, the younger people that can work from home or establish a small business here in the county. So it's it's a little different. Um on the next page, um Morton Marcus, I've had a couple meetings with him. He's pretty interesting, retired economist. He said, uh reinforce that 77% of our earnings are realized outside the county. Um which just reinforces the fact that we're a residential community. 77% outside the county. And again, the robust tourism industry attracts visitors and new uh new folks. Um in 2025 we talked about the Veraritoss and context prepared the draft comprehensive plan again I think is a starting point. If you look at at that plan you look at the 93 draft you look at the 2011 plan you look at uh some of the efforts here if you put AI on it and merge them all we probably have a pretty good story. And then the goal of the draft plan really is is is to drive to have that common vision and to help prioritize what folks want in the different areas. And so the bottom line here, I've got a goal for revisions and updates should include input from additional public meetings through direct engagement with the residents of each township. This could be initiated through a prototype or proof of concept meeting in support of a sub area plan. on that sub area plan. I reached out to Cynthia Bowen um from Renell Ernsburgger Associates. They did the comprehensive sub plan uh for Nashville. And so I asked her given given this information and given the story in and this you know uh what would you recommend as far as is a prototype make sense? For instance, if we could do a prototype in Van Beurren and and have

have meetings there and then and then use the input from that and then finalize whatever that is. if we get the input and things that we need and the involvement and then take that on the road to the other townships as well. I guess I'm not sure what you mean for a public engagement session. Uhhuh. So, what does that look like? Yeah, I I'll get to that. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. All right. So, I got two attachments and I'll just go through quickly on that, but I'll focus in on on one more important areas. Um on the draft comprehensive plan, I've been looking at these forever. Um, we've got a current version in 2011. We're all familiar with that one. And this is on page uh I don't know if our pages are in sync, but mine is three. There's a draft, pardon me, on three.

Okay, good. And then there's a draft. I don't know if anybody saw this and I can't I think I gave you a copy at one time on this 93 plan. Maybe maybe you still have it, but anyway, there's a draft comprehensive plan. It's about 100 pages and it's pretty good. But it broke things down by they called it in said townships they broke it down by hamlets which I thought was pretty interesting and uh and they had a lot of folks involved but it never went anywhere. So I don't know what the story on that one was but didn't look bad. I've got a copy of it and got a couple links uh if you want to look at those. Um 2025 I mentioned the census tracks beyond my average. That was pretty interesting when you look at these different areas and you look at the low to moderate income levels. Nashville probably is is one of the the smallest smallest smallest income level in the county. Uh the lakes are probably the highest followed by Nbone and Nbone if you go north of 46 you know there's a lot of uh lot of lot of nice nice homes up there. So that was kind of interesting. So we did did the census tracks by the by the townships. A

lot of nice houses in south if I don't say so myself. If you're interested in the numbers, I've got a I've got a spreadsheet that lists all the uh census track and the population, but again, overall it's like 40.4. So, we're doing doing pretty good on the income things. So, to get to your point, um Andy, it's like requirements and expectations. Ah, there it is. It starts um how how here's here's what we can have at a public meeting. Um what do you want residents to know? And and for instance, the I think these are the critical things residents following is how their property and area is zoned. I think it'd be nice if if every resident knew how their particular property was zoned. In addition to the zoning, say you're an R2, you also need to know what your zoning district is. And you could live in an R2 and you could be in a lake district. And that permits different things in both categories. And I don't know if you guys remember the Borath uh decision where they had a boat on bitter what was it? Uh

beach tree.

Beach tree. Yeah. So he lived in R2 and and a resident was surprised that a non-residential uh property could could be developed there and then the el the lake district allowed him to put a accommodating business I think is the term that they used. So it's kind of interesting surprise. I didn't know this could happen in my area. And that's a nice thing to do if you've got here's how your property zoned and then also know what your zoning district is. And I think yeah, we'll get to that. The third type is what type of developments allowable uses are allowed within their district. And if you look at the compre if you look at the zoning uh ordinance, there's a section in there that tells you exactly what goes on in every district, what's allowable uses. And so I think people would be surprised that, you know, they could have a helport next door, you know, but I mean it's just being facitious.

I am 100 I'm so excited to hear you say that because there's a way to put all that integrated into GIS. It's just we got to pay somebody smart enough to do that. Like that would be amazing. The flood maps and the zoning on GIS would be a gamech. We'd almost be up to date with all the other counties. Nashville. Is it on there now? Well, it's 2011 elevation data though. Is the recent most recent 2016 FEMA now that's on there. Yeah. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think you're right. I think so.

That's on the public GIS. And we are working at the well right now it's the DNR's flood maps which is supposed to be the same as FEMA's but we're also working to get FEMA's on there also as another layer who puts that in there who Tom which one takes pressure depends on where depends on where it's controlled who's controlling it there's the problem there in lies a lot of problems yeah flooding I mean that's why she had to go to take courses to become the flood plane coordinator it depends on what your project even is and that depends on who takes presidents over the other. It's really a fun

to be honest having dealt with several particular offices with the state in that manner. They don't know. No, they don't. They really don't. They I asked them to show me a white paper of a like a wall assembly but how to do this particular thing. for my original question was is you can talk to core. They referred me to a county website in Montana. That's the state and I'm not dogging. It's not like the the person I was talking to had the information for me. She didn't know. So, well, I guess we want to work with what we have. So,

yeah, I don't have any contacts at FEMA. I work directly with DNR, right? So, that's all I know. Oh, so FEMA has no input. So FEMA is like the very top rung. Uhhuh. And then DNR is who we deal with and then us local. Okay. So all of my correspondence goes through DNR and then they liazison with FEMA. Okay. See the confusion here? Too many cooks in the kitchen. We're the GIS is a technology we haven't had the resources to to explore. Well, I'm not sure the GIS is the problem here.

It's not. I don't really think the GIS is the issue. It's the Yeah. red tape everywhere else, right? That makes the But I mean, if as a design professional, you don't rely upon GIS for flood information. It's it gets you in the ballpark and then you go and you do your research to get the flood information, but you should be able to rely on it for your zoning. Yes. Exact. Yeah. That and rideaways and things like that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And ideally your infrastructure. Boy, I'm sure the infrastructure companies would like to know where all their stuff's at, too. Well, yeah, that's for another day.

Yeah. Yeah. And then again, I think and I'll I'll have you bring up the link in a minute, but what type of developments are allowed uses are allowed within their district? And I'll show you that. We'll bring up that matrix in a minute. The other one is special exceptions. I think people need to know about that one. So, you think of these community meetings, okay? What what would you want people to walk out? These are the things I'd want people to walk out with. Do they know what their zoning is? Do they know what district they live in? Do they know what's allowed within their districts? And do they understand special exceptions? Because that's part of the matrix. They understand what could go in in their area as well. And then the last one is wow, it is all on us is how the process of zoning is changed. If they want a change in their area or somebody else is making a change in the area, what does that process look like? and we live with that one. I mean, you guys re you guys go through and look at the the changes. Do you recommend it? Then we've got a vote. And that's those are probably the most contingious votes that we have or the contingent meetings we can possibly have in this county. Um, not that that's not fun, but but you know, I think there's things we could do to kind of minimize uh some of that stuff. Um Danielle, if you would at the bottom for references under that there's a Brown County zoning ordinance districts and allowable uses. If you could click on that.

I think you're too far down. Yeah, it should be around page bottom of page three. References. Oh, I'm No, you're reading ahead, huh? There. There it is. Second. Second one. Brown County zoning ordinances. You want me to click on it? See if you can bring it up. I think you had to hit the control and then open. Hold down the control button. That was malware.

There we go. Um, here's the kind of districts in the establishments. I won't explain it, but you look at the different districts that we have. Lake residential district always caught me by surprise. That was a new one for me. um when I was sitting here on that meeting, forest reserve, different things. Uh fringe districts, we talked about that one. That's another contentious one. The R2s uh and go on. Those are districts. And then if you go on, keep going. Industrial districts. Um different explanations, boundaries. Yeah. Go to the matrix. Yep. Oh, there it is. That's the That's the money shot. I think when you have these these meetings out there and you tell people, okay, if you're in an R2, here's all the things that can go in your in your area.

Okay. I don't want to speak out of turn. I'm sorry. No. So, but I think that we're getting too far into the zoning ordinance stuff and we're putting kind of the cart before the horse on that one. We can do that in tandem and let people know what their zoning is, but the the comp plan is really I think we've all decided comp plan first zoning or I think what he's saying is he wants this in the comp plan so that it's right up front so people understand this is what can be done or an appendix. If I'm in an R2, I'd like to know if I bought property in an R2 and I'm in a R2 in the Lake District. I want to know I would like to know right

what can go in there. But what what you're talking about is community facing. What Kayla was referencing is what do you want in the comprehensive plan? You don't want if you want a statement in the comp plan saying build a website that clearly defines uh zoning boundaries to community residents, then we can do that. But it's you want it all laid out in the comp plan or No, no, I don't want this in the comp plan. But when you talk about when you want people to know what what what what their zoning is and what district they're in, I need to have an explanation of what what a district is and then what's allowed within that district, what the allowable uses so they know. That's it.

That's there. The public has access to that. It's called our development code. I mean, it's there. They can ask that question. I mean, they can research that on their own. And that right there is public knowledge if they want it to be. Now I think what you're saying is how deep and how far do you have to dig to find that information? Of course that applies to just about anything in government, right? So can I let me let me spend two okay 30 seconds. The point about this is a is a is a

down compound. Okay. The the thing about it is is it's it is as well as an opportunity to receive information as well as to convey information. Okay. And what we have in this in this situation is a challenge with regards to people not understanding because that's when we come to appeals and things of that nature and asking for reasonzoning. People sitting there saying, "Oh, I didn't know that." Right? So I I guess my comment is I see value in adding some approach to we're going to not only just take this as an information gathering session to say what are you looking for but if you go and ask that question and say well what are you looking for and what if they don't know what the hell's there and what they can and can't do then how are they ever going to come about with what understanding that they would need in order to say this is where I think we should be going

in that case Kevin I mean I guess what would you consider to be the best venue to u seek provide that information. So I think the venue the the so I went to both of the sessions for the comprehensive plan there and and again I'm and I know there's a struggle. The thing I see in this county is is we want as a local government entity and the various boards and things of that nature engagement from the community, but we've not hit some level of it's not working for us because you get a very small facet of people coming in saying here's what I want. I want I want I want because the ref shouldn't affect the outcome of the play. Daily citizens that aren't civically involved don't care. Yeah. Until it

until it affects their area and then they're here in So that's again I don't want to mission creep. I want to take full advantage of the time we have with you guys. As far as what you want in the comp plan, like I am 100% on board with what you're saying. I think there's community engagement, community education, other routes that we can do to to educate people or to make those make that information available. But as far as what we want on what we want listed in the comprehensive plan, until we hear from the public, Mhm. I don't know what else. I mean, we all know that the previous attempt was a less than comprehensive comprehensive plan. We said that from the beginning.

Is it done or are there things that we can add to what we have already with input from the public? But what specifically areas are we looking to improve with this document? You know what I mean? Like do we need to start over the new document or do we have a list of things? Hey, this and this I'd like need changed. This I would have liked more of this. So how do we do that? These are all fine. Like as far as the body of the document, that's why we're here is the so what's going into the document chapter or understood.

You know what I mean? Graphs whatever. So my te so my take on this is a definitive a definitive understanding because like we said we are an inst we are a comm we are a community where we have a populace of people that are heavily relying on services correct so I would think that if we were going through the comprehensive plan we would have clear vision or a clear idea of what that looks like how are we structuring it and let's use Jesse Clark as the example on that right he's a service business we didn't we didn't necessarily and again that's an or it's in between a a plan of saying where are we going to structure these kind of entities in like Bartholomew County saying we're going to identify this as an area of opportunity for development for bis small business entities right or we're going to go through and put granularity or they would like to see and I'm sure if you ask him now he'd like to see granularity on what general business looks like those are the kinds of kind of things that I'm that I'm

by designating zones well I think could be a zoning it could be a zoning it could be a I mean difference between zones and zoning. Zones would be like they talked about the heritage use district along the corridors, right? That's great, right? That's the highways. It doesn't take a rocket science to look at our county and go, "Well, that could use some more. We know we can do it there. That's that was self-explanatory." As far as what else is available, maybe we need to relook at what we allow because like right now with that particular it's GB or nothing. We need more zoning.

So is there another classification of small business or whatever that whatever that term is. I'm not just saying that cuz I own a small business, right? I'm one guy. I'm not worried about you know what I mean any any type. I don't have employees and things like that, but if I wanted to have it would be nice to be able to go to the county website and go, what can I do in my zoning,

right? Like what as a is there a classification for under 10 employees? Is there a classification for We can do that. We can make that happen. I'm trying to stay like calm and not repeat the same thing over and over again, but we argued more about using out of state or out of county pictures when we passed our comp plan than some of what was in it, right? Like it just it didn't demonstrate the community that we were working with, right? that did not do that as well as I mean it wasn't

and so but but the other part is is that you know how do you define something you define it in five words do you define it in 50 or 500 you get to 500 nobody wants to read through that you got to get that down to you know short sweet and to the point as you go through the document with the correct information that it needs needs to have but also with um you know somebody eighth grade reader you know what is it what is the term now I don't know what it is school-wise but you know with a reading level that when somebody looks at this they can understand it it doesn't have the additional what I tell my patient halfutin words in there that just confuse the whole dynamic and so you know it needs to be a document that you can read the paragraph or read a section and go okay now I understand that. Now I'll have to figure out what I can do next kind of thing. So finding that middle road is not that easy.

And I would rather you guys have to worry about finding businesses to move in or you know what I mean other ways to make revenue for our county than having to deal with, you know what I mean? All the other crap that you have to deal with. So having zones and a clear picture of, hey, we we have targeted this area or this whatever. This is our bread and butter. this is what we're looking for. How do we get more of that and allow for the other things that people think we are?

Okay, let me try to address that and Kayla, address your point. I think the comprehensive plan ought to drive that. It ought to drive that. What do you want? What do you don't want and where do you want it or don't want it? And I'll get to that on the second on the second hand out comes out comes out. All right. U next I just got the historical, cultural, and economic context. Um, this is this gets back to the story. Um, we talked about scenic beauty, natural train. Think about the comprehensive plan. You're you're who you're marketing that to. You're describing your story and you're trying to attract people and you're trying to attract uh some businesses. So, what what do you want to attract and where do you want to put it and what do you want to allow and where do you want to have it? All those kinds of things. I'd like to know. Um, the regional opportunity initiative, I mentioned that. Um, it's focused on Nashville and tourism. that's just not pays that's doesn't it's nice to have but it doesn't pay our bills here. Um it's the residents that are attracted by the recreational opportunities are that are paying our bills. Um so it's quality of life is a huge thing.

Let me just real quick I have to intervene. Okay. It is our residents who live here not just for the recreation but for the ability to be to have some room to live self sustained or more so self- sustained than you would in town or in the city. So there is a very hard scrabble kind of route from and we can't forget that like yeah the bike trails are nice and yeah like some of the stuff I love it too. I'm I'm one that like lo enjoys that stuff, but that's not everybody. Like some people just want to be left alone. I just want

say and the other one is and what came up in the Jesse Clark thing. The other thing is is is the the the discussion offline, so to speak, is there's a lot of businesses throughout the county where somebody's in the middle of nowhere that has has a business and and and maybe have two or three employees that show up during their business and nobody says anything because they're in the middle of nowhere. they're not having an impact anywhere. But yet, you also have issues where somebody's running a business and bringing employees to pick up vehicles on a narrow road and and the neighbors are up in arms because of of the danger of of of that traffic. So, you have that and the Jesse Clark thing came up. I mean, you looked at those discussions, you had residents saying, "Hey, I'm I want to live in a residential area. I didn't move to be down here in a commercial area." And yet, he's saying, "Gee, whiz, I've got a business down here. I'd like to keep it down here. Um, is there some middle ground there?" But then we and that's okay and I think our guidance is the general business along state highways only because of the access on the roads. Our roads are extremely narrow in this county. Um and so I think that's supports the general business on the county highways. So anyway, if you're looking at general business, that's nice to put that kind of stuff out there. Um and then again, yeah. So, um schools, I think I mentioned that one. One of those things schools are over half is half of our property tax. I think last I looked at my property tax it's like 55 56% of my property tax are going to schools and yet we have declining enrollment and then but yet we got the referendum now we're getting construction projects at the school. So when you're attracting people to a community you're selling marketing this community you're also marketing schools.

Let me give you some clarification. Yes, the student population is going down. The referendum is strictly for teachers uh wages and benefits. So we can keep them here. Okay, that's added to what we what we get in the state which is you know not a whole lot um not as much as it should be and we are required to um do so much certain testing and things like that that the charter schools and other schools are not. The the tax rate for schools has stayed the same. the house value. My house was $100,000 when I built it. My house now value values at $410. Okay. Of course, my taxes went up. However,

they went up only because the fact that 63 cents per $100 per per$100. Okay. Well, I went from 100,000 to that's where the increase of the school tax. We did not change it. We have kept it level. And I have been on the board since 2007. Okay,

we have not had a time except once when it dipped down because of issues and stuff, but we have had it kept along uh level and purpose of it has been to put air conditioning in buildings when because they didn't have it. Uh the boilers, replacement of hard, you know, hard hard things, you know, uh replace roof, all kinds of things and stuff. It's we're not So, yes, the taxes have gone up, but that's the tax rate has gone up.

Yeah. Well, Carol, my point here would be the schools are an asset. And so when people are looking to move here, it's like what what are the capabilities of the schools or what are my options? And so we have a lot of the homeschool uh deal. You got a lot of people going or some kids going to the out of district school. So again, it's telling the picture within your comp plan. And if you're going to attract a certain demographic, you need to share here's our asset. Here's what's available. We need to have property sites available for younger families that also include um good internet so that you know that person may be able to work from home. I mean I've got I've got a couple patients I see now here in the county the family members working from home while they're taking care of the senior citizen. So you know so that gives that gives us advantage of being in this county. So um so Yeah.

Well, broadband broadband was a was a significant and asset for the county. Just game changer. It certainly was

because now we're tracking people down here that can work from home and and live in a in a rural area. Um the next one I'll just briefly go through that. You got home cost and affordability. Um I can show you the numbers. Affordable. I always love when they throw that out. HUD defines affordable as no more than 30% of your income going to your housing expenses. That's affordable. And uh that's a whole different animal. I think we've been admiring that problem and the state has nation has on a on affordable homes at the star home level. Um whatever that's a that's a that's another issue. Economic base I kind of reinforce that new and there's a a link out there where I had a another interpretation of of a plan going forward. Um and then I want to get more to the culture of the county more aesthetics. You got small communities in Brown County. I always like it when you come across these articles. uh they had 10 secluded towns, lost and hills of Indiana's rugged Bryant County region and they identified the different areas. That's part of the culture of that's part of the culture of the county that I think a lot of people when they move down may not know may not know Alkinsville may not know that we have a mountain here, Brownie Mountain, right? You know, or or Stone Hedge. Is that what they call it? um just unique things or stone head you know the the all the different arts you know the mining that went on the culture that went on the engraving the you know what the engraving of the headstones you know that all that kind of a thing it's all part that attracts people to our county that you don't really see anywhere u jobs I let me hit the numbers here 3,840 jobs total in the county and I think I got that off your your uh report tourism related was a thousand non-ourism related 2018 that's everybody else that's you know that's that's working but yet when you look at the total tax returns filed the 7,000 tax returns so you got a total of 38 3,840 people working but 7,32 people filing tax returns taxable income

so it just reinforces that hey we're a resident community retirement community um people with businesses and maybe work outside the county too but they'd be counted as far as that but not exactly having a job here so I'm curious curious on on some of these numbers. Um, again, back to wages, Brown County, again, 77% of the earnings realized by local residents originate elsewhere. And another one by Morton Marcus, and I got to dig into the numbers. Um, when you looked at all the the wages throughout the state of Indiana, it's pretty interesting. He said Brown County is among the eight in the high wage increase and high job growth corner. So, that was pretty interesting when you look at his report, but you got to kind of look at the numbers that determine the percentages. So if you had just a small amount of numbers of percentages, it may be skewed. But anyway, I thought that's pretty interesting when I read his report. Um, economic development, it's another constraint here. I guess and maybe you guys know the only time I recall the county giving a tax abatement was when they when the little opery owners of the old little opery property were going to rebuild and the county gave a $400,000 tax abatement so they could afford a wastewater treatment some kind of system. That's the only time I recall the county kind of officially saying, "Hey, we'll give you an abatement to help you out on this development." Um, we did do an economic development area that you need for a tiff, tax increment financing in Helensburg, but we didn't do a tiff. We did the economic development area, but yet uh but that took care of itself. Um, uh, private sector got involved. I mean, I think the pools bought three of the homes and torn down. Uh, other people either tore them down or rebuilt and then Habitat for Humanity came in. So if you look at Helensburg, they kind of private sector took took over and redeveloped that particular area and now you got the steamy out there looking for, you know, opportunities as well. So again, we didn't didn't even have a tiff. We don't have a tiff in the county. Don't think we ever did. I think Nashville,

pardon me. We do have an abatement in the county. We do. Which one? It's Hawthorne. Okay. Hawthorne. I thought that was the town. It's town. It's town, but it's still We still have the county gave an abatement. manage town. Okay, we did. We have a tiff on the new Woods Lane or not Woods Lane. What is it called up there by Palmer's? That's Nashville. I think all of Nashville is tipped. There are three tips in Nashville. Okay. You can go out and look and Google it and I think they've got 400 properties in the database that that have a tip on it. It's all in the town, but that's not the county. I mean, the county kind of sells itself. When you look at Hart Truth Hills, um they didn't ask for anything. No,

I remember asking them as they go, they didn't ask for a dime. Hart Truth Hills and and uh Big Woods didn't ask for anything. They did this. We attracted we attract those kind of businesses here because we've got the tourism that attracts more visitors. And the key on the more visitors, which is interesting, it gets back to that uh stoplight outside the state park. We had three stop lightss in the county. Um, we always and then it was always tried to get a stoplight down there, but the volume of traffic never in INDOT would never put a light in there because the traffic didn't support it. But then that changed last year. So now we have the fourth stoplight. Yeah. And the reason we had the fourth stoplight because they wanted to put in a circle. A circle. Okay. Roundabout.

A roundabout. I'm sorry. I'm from the east. There circles. and uh and they would put a roundabout in it and and there was a thing on the internet and I started letting people all know that we don't want a roundabout because that traffic would not have worked traffic wise in at October and everything else. Any high events and stuff. So that's how come we ended up with a light instead of a circle at the north entrance. Well, that's subject to change. I met those people out there. I was going to say I saw him out there that morning. That's that's supposedly a temporary. That escalating. It's temporary.

We was we was five years ahead on that than what they really was planning on doing. I think there was a couple accidents or something out there. But you know, the most permanent thing is something temporary. So we'll have to see what they do. Carol, I see you got there with your sign. No roundabout, right? Or no circles. No circles. No round. I will say I was driving through Hamilton County last week going north whatever that airport is. That road that goes north of the little regional airport and they've put in roundabouts. Alsonville Road. No, it's it's No, it's uh Comfort Road. Mount Comfort Road. Okay.

There has been like now they were able to say this section is going to go to housing. Please developers come. We'll court you to come here. But they've put in roundabouts every block. Yes, they on what was a country road. Yes, they have. And it's I would say it's probably just it it's faster. It's it's too fast. Like at least before when there was a stop sign, everything it made like now it's just go like you Yeah. If you want to pull out the traffic, you got to go. I think we're getting off.

Yes, we are. Okay. And then I'll hit it guys at infrastructure considerations. I throw all this all this in but when you start laying development and comprehensive plan it' be nice to know where all the all the power all the infrastructure is. Um public safety medical services kind of explain I guess one of the constraints we're dealing with now is we don't have a hospital. We don't have urgent care. Um our equivalent is is the ambulances. And so what's interesting is we're getting more and more people down that think that that we ought to have the same amenities as Marian County when it comes to medical services. And it's like, well, that's a different that's a different kind of discussion.

And typically what I've learned here uh is that typically when people move down, they understand the constraints on the medical service that are available and then when they get to the point they age to the point where they need medical services, they they're out of here. They go somewhere else. They flip their house. New generation buys a house. And and that's been going on for two or three generations. Um, so you might talk to your realer to confirm if we're still doing that, but that's kind of what happened. So medical services kind of constraint. Fire and emergency services kind of constraint on the volunteers, roads and bridges, I kind of mentioned and we're just had a bridge inspection for the 84 bridges, recreation trails, big deal. I've got, man, the number of trails and and nonprofits. And people always say, gee whiz, most our land you can't tax. But by golly, that's what attracts people here, you know. So you can say, well, you know, 50%, 60%, 70%, and then people can put their land in classified forest and they're paying less in property tax, so maybe it's closer to 70%. But that's what attracts people down here. That's what attracts folks to move down here along with the recreational opportunities and the amenities that tourism offers. So I always kind of laugh when people say that. It's like, buddy, that's what brings people here. That's what that's what we ought to market. Um, sewer service to kind of mention it. Um, interesting. Uh the nobone nobone bean blossom project is on hold indefinitely but Lake Lemon got funding so and then Helmsburg got funding to improve their plant uh just for their customers given the current demand but they can expand to include hundreds of more customers when that when that develops.

Does that so you said Lake Lemon's approved? Yes. 3.7 million here in Hton's gate got federal money uh to develop plans from Lake Lemon to Helmsburg. Yeah, that's Helmsburg is the regional is the regional service center for wastewater. But yeah, being

they they're on hold. Um I talked to the state revolving fund. They were looking for um they asked to see 85% uh c new customer support and and they didn't get that and that's what they base their funding on and I think there's cost issues as well. So um the Brown County Regional Sure District just kind of put that on hold. suspended that and they're shipped into Lake Lemon. So, that's good. Um, there's probably that's a that's a development opportunity out that way. Half of it splits into Monroe County. Their commissioners are are more than more than interested in getting sewers as well. So, that could be a a development opportunity. Then the broadband I kind of mentioned on that one, water service, again, another issue. Um, I'll just go through this real quick. Um, on this next one, the decision criteria, you know, it' be nice and I think when guys when I presented, if you recall, I went through the decision criteria on the on the Tilton resone. Remember that one? And it's like, well, we have these general goals, but then, you know, how do we how do we define, you know, an approval for a project? What that what is that criteria? How would we rate it and score it? And so, you can go to the links on that one. Uh, I kind of presented that last year. Um again IC 3674603 again guidance and then let me go to attachment B and I'll just go through two or three and call it a wrap. Um what we did is we broke things down by township and what's unique when we're saying the comprehensive plan is guiding development uh growth and development say for the entire county. But the county is unique different areas may have different needs and you're not going to know what that is until you go out and talk to people. So if you look at Jackson Township, just look at when you look at the character, you look at the history uh look at what you have there. Helensburg, Bean Blossom, Fruitdale, Needmore, Trevlac, all these are unique kind of areas. And then of

course you've got built down below. Uh and then I interest uh identified the census tracks and the LMI tells you what that what that income level is in those areas. You know, Bean Blossom, Helensburg. You go to Hamlin Township, Gatesville, Cordary, Sweetwater Conservancy, Mount T State Forest, Western Edge, Camp Adterbury. Not a whole lot there, but there's four census tracks, and they're all pretty low LMI, which means high income. And again, next to Lakes is probably one of the highest income uh uh townships that we have. Washington Townships, probably the most diverse. You know, you got Nashville and what's nice is is is we need to incorporate Nashville just a page or two into the county comprehensive plan because they've got their plan, but for them to grow um if they they linked sewer service to annexation and they have a master wastewater strategic plan that goes all the way up to it goes to Belmont, goes to what was it? Um Andale, uh Townill, Sam's Hill. Um I think they could even I think they could even provide support for Bean Blossom, but Bean Blossom is working just fine. Thank very very much. When it comes to the regional sewer district,

one town, the whole county like continue to just advance until Nashville touches Well, Nashville's Nashville's done growing, right? But you just said an annex plan that grew with the sewer,

right? If you wanted to if if if for instance I live on Town Hill right side out of town or you can look at Annale um if you want if that area wants sewer service and has to be continuous then Nashville is requiring that they volunteer to be annexed. Um that's probably going to be constraint for anybody who wants sewer service for Nashville but but maybe not. So for them to grow people have to voluntarily agree to an annexation. And so there are rules for annexation. So we need to just include that in our comp plan saying, okay, if you're moving to these areas within two miles of Nashville and you're looking for sewer service someday, um you may you may want to volunteer to be annexed and and this is what this is a summary of what that requires because there's a lot of in intricacies when it comes to that annexation for Nashville. Has to be continuous, has to be volunteer. There's a whole new uh state code written on that one.

Can't fire firearms.

Yeah. But see, that's part of the in our comp plan that's that needs to be covered. Here's Nashville. Here's a link to their plan. And oh, by the way, here's, you know, here's their constraints on if you want sewer service to be expanded or whatever. So, nice thing to have. So, Washington Township most diverse. You got Nashville, but then you got, you know, State Park, Belmont, uh, Van Beerren Township, different story there. Pikes Peak, Stone Head Story, Elkinsville, Brownie Mountain. Um, and if you recall, I don't know if you guys remember the Combs Road issue. Pack the room. Pack the room. Not only local residents, but state residents, regional residents, forest people, parks people. Um, leave us alone was the big story there. It's a pristine area. Don't touch it. Um, we've been through this and and and and it's not broke, don't fix it. And you know, Punk and Rich is that way too on on same way. Those folks leave us alone. And I think Van Beerren same way. Um, leave us alone. we like it just fine. But when you look at all these areas and then you look at the zoning, you look at what can go in those zonings, you just make people aware. So when you have these different and again the the the idea is to have these uh community engagement meetings at these townships like Van Beer and Volunteer Fire Department for instance, bring these people in and say, "Hey, here's here's the map. Here's the zoning. Here's what can go in the zoning. Is that okay? Do you want more or less? What do you want developed?" So, if you want these districts, you want growth, why? Tell me what you want because we're going to we're going to see that, right? Comes to you for zoning. It comes to us for approval. Um, I want to give people as much information as possible. I want to get as much input as possible and tell me what you want and don't want in your particular areas. And that that you you do by getting out there and asking people. One of the biggest responses we got to that question uh previously on our survey monkey, one of the most common answers was nothing. Leave us alone.

Like don't Why are you talking about this? Shh. We don't need more. So is there geographic representation for that or was that countywide or where was it? The survey monkey was countywide. No, I mean but for the results, could you geographically point and say that's prevalent in the southern part of the county in Van Beern or was that typically So we do have maps that have the data basically pins where people live that attended and then also where do you think would be a good opportunity for growth? Where do you think that there was a number of criteria that people they put where they lived and then what they saw for other areas as well like it was done really well like that one engagement session so to speak

that starts on 121 of the yeah it was it was understand it but I'm I was just trying to understand from the data standpoint was there a prevalence in that attitude can you would geographical data help you make a decision in this county at all so let me let me give you a perspective from my Mike, Senator, if you look at the if you go and back and look at that look at that township drawing that there where is the where are where is there a heavy population of constituents typically in Hamlin and Jackson Township a heavy population of constituent meaning if you're looking at I can spitting distance of neighbor if I want to put it that way neighbors and people living areas meaning living closer together. Okay. Right. Let's just let me phrase it that way.

Sure. Right. So I live in Hanland Township. I live not far outside of Spiritville, but you have a lot of people that are living closer together. Bean Blossom is kind of that area. You have open spaces in there. Not a lot of it, but I if you go and look at the roads, you look at the houses, you drive down Spursville Road, you see them side by side by side. You don't see like you do down in Van Beern, these 20, 50, 60 acre fields or areas that are wide open. and it's a lot further distance between neighbors right on Christianber road right so I I I think from a geography standpoint I think that is one of the things we may have missed we may we may be missing and saying again

bean blossom to me is is a missed opportunity I mean to me right Helmsburg huge highspeed internet freaking sewer power like close to Monroe. Yeah. And again, I'm not saying that there again, so a geography standpoint is like I said, I think one of the reasons why the original 2000 plan was saying, well, we want that development to occur along state roads because again,

go on some of the roads that we've been on and having traveled those things. They they are not they are not conducive to carrying large amounts of traffic, right? So I I want to kind of see how those geographic I mean because somebody in Cordry is going to want something completely different than somebody in in Bean Blossom. Sure. My idea. Right. Sure. And I don't know that we captured that. No one I mean we got 1%. What was our percentage Kyle? Yeah. 1%. We all said we were disappointed.

Yeah. I mean we all all I don't disagree. That's the thing. is just let us know like what how do we instead of just waiting what do we what can we do to make progress to and I think the thing for me is I again I think it's a different stepping into this because we are in the commissioner's office trying to make points move things forward where we're not where we're being more strategic about where we're headed with these things right so that we're not being so tactical right basically when you solidify the dots here where Should new development occur in Brown County? And it was along State Highways and it was along State Highways. There's only one right there. One, two, three in Hamlin. But so,

you know, everything and I understand like we're back to the same geographically. That's how you would designate it, right? How do we overcome? We know our geography is a both a challenge and a blessing. How do we overcome looking at it just that's why we talked about a new zoning instead of GB? Maybe there's less than GB, but maybe you're allowed to do a little more. You know, maybe and who would who would want that? What areas would want that, right? I mean, so again, so let me just try again. So I travel up 135 going north and I look at Fruitdale. Okay.

Right. Another perfect example. There were countless people that made efforts to build buildings there because they were going to turn it into some small business strip mall. You got the old gas station, you got another old gas station, you got another small strip area and those things. So those are all things that were done, but I think it was because people were trying to go it alone and didn't have a clear understanding of what their challenges were. Right. Sure. That's what I'm kind of expecting to come from the comprehensive plan as well as saying, "Well, I think that's again like you're saying it is right. It's occurring along state roads." To me, that makes sense. Right. Right. And that's where your development should occur. Right. I'm going to guess those businesses didn't make it to the September. I didn't even have to study it.

So, anybody doing their due diligence would have known that. Yeah. From the first step. So, it's not it's not that we don't want it to happen. It's for our plans. It's where we want it. Well, and that's why like it it it gave me pause and I I don't know if I should say anything on the record or not, but with Nashville's plan to annex anybody that joins on, does it become a race for Helmsburg and Bean Blossom and Nbone to all say, "Well, we're going to annex anybody that joins us, too, cuz nothing will get built like nothing will grow." I don't.

You see what I mean, though? When you said that, it sounded something kind of went, "Wait a minute. What?" I've worked with with Ellensburg for quite a while and same way they didn't force anybody to go on sewers and they still don't I no I'm not saying forcing someone to but but you're saying if I want the service you must yes I don't know if that's exactly true because I don't think the u may not be but it kind of they did have to hook on who who's told well I don't want to get into names but somebody was was held the head hook on and they had to anal bone when they put the nobone sewer in. My my best friend's dad had to do it and he bitched. He just spent

$8,000 on a new septic. Oh my god. He just spent I just spent $8,000 and they want a new one for it. Are you talking about the Barrett law? Let me keep going. How I see this? Okay, it's really somewhat simple. If you don't have the utilities to support it, it's probably not going to happen. And if you're going to go out in the area that you know you're going to need a septic, that's the way it's always been. If you don't, you're not close to it. And Nashville might be where they take it out and go out of the county. Well, that's one reason we have such a high percentage of failure rates in this county. What rates? Failure. High percentage failure. Yeah. In this county. Is there any data on that? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. On the old pipe and gravel system. There's all kind of data on that with the health department. um very high uh geologically, soilwise, Brown County's got some severe restrictions in terms of We have a different conversation on that one. We'll have a different conversation on that one. I'll reach out and see what they're talking about. Segue into what what he was saying. So, um, it's gotten expensive to put a septic in responsible development if you don't if you don't work and don't should follow your infrastructure in terms of servicing those areas. Water, sewage. Yeah. Don't grow those areas if that is not if that's impossible,

right? But if you want to grow bean blossom, put sewer, water, and broadband, but make sure it's got that and get out of the way and let the private sector. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm talking about. That's exactly what I'm saying. But those services really should because what we've done in the past, what a lot of communities made mistakes in the past is we've allowed development. We've allowed homes to be built, housing conditions to be built, and this the infrastructure there to service it was not there. That's exactly right. Yes. Fruitale, Bean Blossom, they're all business properties and they're tiny. Exactly. We can't put a subject system on the Fruit Dale market property. You can't put a subject system for the Gatesville store that's tied to the house. Yeah. Like

that's why we don't have a preale market anymore. So that's the responsible way in my opinion. I know it's not easy to do because you're turning down development. You're turning down construction. You're telling developers no, we're not going to issue these permits to you because those lifelines are not there. Well, the truth is the developers aren't asking because those lifelines aren't there. Period. Well, but I mean, we've all got them in the past, but I'm saying I've got I I know of someone who right now needs 800 doors in their county. What?

They need 800 new doors in their county because the factory that came to town, everybody that works there is driving to the county next door to live because that's where the housing is. So they're actually seeking developers to put housing so that they can keep the income tax in the county instead of it leaving every night. So Boston Scientific Well, when we're I just I'm sure that's another one like there's it is it's a problem across the state. So what did he say? Boston Scientific a community.

But the problem is when you say we're not we don't developers don't need any help. We don't need to. Yeah, we do. by putting infrastructure so they'll come build stuff. Who pays for it? There's the problem. Who pays for it, right? Wouldn't the tax base and growth from that? If you look at if we had sewer between fact though, isn't it? Trick of the egg. That's being purely that's being very speculative. Yeah.

You've got to have that money up front. So that's always been the problem. the cheap thing to do was to go with septic systems even though they're not so cheap today but it was the only other option and we know the failure rate and we know what's happening with one our water quality here in the county not just Brown County throughout the entire state now I got off on a tangent there so uh I'll just summarize so again comfort you I think if I may say something here I think you're you Tim and I'm assume all three of the commissioners are on board on this don't assume a minute ago. Okay, it's good advice. Um, I have no idea where the hell I was going with that.

It was one of your $3 words. It's about due for your $3. I think you may be asking a little too much and expecting a little too much from a comprehensive plan. When I think when I see words in here like this, critically the plan lacks the granular placebased specificity that's getting awfully awfully specific on a comprehensive plan. That was REA. I was I admired the the verbiage. That was a contractor. Okay. Well, but that's really not what your comprehensive plan is about in my opinion. Well, okay.

I mean, you can statistic you can number it to death. you could squeeze it down to being too much. It's no longer comprehensive. Um, it's a direction. It's a road map basically for people in the planning commission, commissioners, your county government in how they would like to see things go, how they'd like to see in what direction things could be developed. So, I think what we've talked about and if I can, uh, Tim, what did this all this information come from here that we're looking at this evening? Did you compile this yourself or did this come out of a some I've got links to all that all that information? So you comp this is all you've been you compiled this

for years. Yeah. Okay. All right. Three years. Can I Well, I I tell you what I just I just conclude. Here's the option going forward. Um is I I had REA develop an R an RP. They're they're the folks that did the uh the Nashville comprehensive plan. And I said, "Hey, does it make sense to do what we're looking for to do it by communities, by areas?" And and they they thought that would that would work for us, geographical areas,

geographical areas, the townships. And so they outlined an RFP for me and say, "Hey, here's what we can do to prototype this kind of meeting in in the different townships." So you validate and basically what you'd do, say if you did that at Amir and you had your several meetings. Uh for one, you may confirm the information you already have in your in the comp plan. So you could use that information. You also might get new information. And so based on those meetings, based on the input, based on the feedback, based on the delta between what folks are saying and what we have in the town plan, we can make a change. And at that point, you've got a proof of concept model that we can take to other other townships and have other meetings. That's the plan. Are you talking about comprehensive plan for each township? No. No.

Information gathering for each township. He he's saying an event. you're just talking about what it's clear to me public meetings what you're not happy with this is the fact that you made it very clear in here is that you don't think the public had enough opportunity to make comments am I am I correct on that to to be engaged in in in in the plan right right so affect their what you would like to see basically is more of a geographical concentration of input based on township to township correct more community engagement by catcher. I work the fair. No, the the polls.

Me, too. Yeah. So, but on that point, it I understand how So, how do you recommend having the meeting? Do we do it like we did before and just have multiples or do we do uh social media, you know, attack and and try and get it out there that way? I we talked before. It's like you want to get people to respond. Just put one question in there about do you think you should be able allowed to have chickens or shoot guns in your yard. People will respond. Like we can get we can get numbers. That's not what we're trying to do though. That's not the the spirit of what we're trying to do.

I have a draft of a request for proposal from REA on how they would how would they suggest we could do these community engagement sessions at a township and I can forward it to you. Rea REA that's they're another Veritus they're another uh yeah they they're the ones that did the comprehensive plan for Nashville so this is another consulting that's Randelle Erns Ernsburgger Associates Cynthia so this is another consulting company that does that does specializes in in comprehensive planning but they're not going to be our cons they haven't said they're going to be our consultant they haven't asked them to be our they didn't want to be involved in before you so they didn't apply when we did the they were not interested because they were already doing the town's plan.

Correct. Now we're also doing the town's development plan. Yeah. The UDO. Yep. Yes. Mr. Shillings. Yes. You are Mr. Shillings? Yes. It's been a while. You've been here a long time, haven't you? I have. How How many years you think it's been? Uh, I started in ' 94.

Okay. 94. You You were here then. Do you remember the master plan back when? This reads a whole lot like the park that I've read so far. It reads a whole lot like what the master plan was a long time ago. Bicycle paths, you know, they talked about the bicycle paths going through people's front yards. Um the trail thing. Um but the infrastructure, we haven't really grown that much since that point in time. And I know Mr. Waggler was involved. Do you do 50ome meetings or something? on a lot of meetings.

Yeah, he's got a lot of data in that head. Um, he'd be somebody to talk to to remember the process back then. So, we don't go over that again because tell you right now in this it's going to be controversial. So, and if you don't have the infrastructure to begin with, you're you kind of got problems and we can't hardly get the money to do much of anything. I word, huh? Back to that eye word. What's that? Infrastructure. Yeah. So, So if you're going to do anything, you're going to have to be close to the infrastructure unless it's really small or somebody's willing to fit that bill.

Yeah. I mean, I I guess though the comprehensive plan is designed to guide the community in where to develop that infrastructure. And so that's when when this is kind of a a wish list. This is what we would like to happen with our community. And if opportunities to expand your sewer comes comes up, you can say, "Hey, this is the direction we want to go because it's a great area for business development or residential development or so forth." So, um, yeah, I guess my notion of a comprehensive plan is something that's pretty general and just as a guidance document and not not nec a land use instrument, but just just a a sort of wish list for the community.

Here's the vision of what we But it will be determined. I mean, Mr. Clark was right on saying how many on your property, what is your property zone for? Okay, if you got a large section of property that says it's agriculture, that's probably off the table. And if it's in flood planes, it's off the table. So, you moved a lot farther down the road by identifying it. Yeah. And then if it's right now if it's not close to something possible like Nbone or Helmsburg uh

so lakes what communication as a county government okay as as mom and dad of of our county family how how do you disseminate that information? What how are you currently reaching the citizens of Brown County about their property now? Is it the assessor's office? What's What's being mailed to every citizen from the county? Tax bill. Tax bill. There's one. Okay. So, well, there's two a year.

Okay. I'm just say there's one there's one place, can we put an insert in with the tax bill that says, "Hey, by the way, here's what you're zoned for or this is the zoning meeting coming up or whatever." I know. I just got my tax bill, so it wouldn't work until next. I thought we passed an ordinance that it had to be revisited every two years or five years. I think there's a there's a state statute if I remember right. There's a state that then I would consider uh saying you need to focus on what you can do today, right? Not visualize it so far out, right? I I agree with that. How can we help? What can we have the most impact today? What are the biggest issues facing our county

today? And that was part of the the survey, part of the the community engagement was what do you where do you feel like we need the most attention? So you're talking about give them that information ahead of time so they can be thinking about that for any possible future changes or modifications to their land. Is that

cuz right now they can find that information by coming in or calling. What I am doing is looking at the list that I just got from my boss that says this is what I want to the comp plan that this is this needs to be accomplished so that we can do the comp plan. I want people to know what their zoning is and what it means. We need it clear and we need everybody to be able to look up what what it is. Okay. How do we make that happen and and begin to get people engaged so that when we say we're having a community meeting about the comp plan, people show up and get more engagement. That's what I mean. you're you're you're you're providing the information. So they have they can consider well

here's my zoning now and we've been talking about doing this maybe in three or four years which is going to require a reszone or a change possibly. They're not going to know that until they call in to find out. Right. But like right now when when they get a request for someone to parcel off, it's called subdivide. When the neighbors get a note saying, "Your neighbors putting in a subdivision." We've had the room full before and literally 5 minutes after the meeting starts, we explain what happened and then everybody leaves. People come in and they say, "Oh, they just want to make it into two." Yeah. Right. Oh, I don't care. Well, that's

Yeah. So, but but back to your point, it part of what he's saying with the comp plan is also educating and engaging constituents. It sounded dirty when you said it. It's always sound made it sound dirty. Um, but no, but like getting people engaged so that they that we do get their feedback before something's wrong and they're not happy, right? But we're back to the square one. How do you get them? Because some people Well, so again, that's why I said I think that's why Tim went and did what he did with REDA. basically ask to say is there potentially an a set of eyes to look at this can that can put proof of concept together that we can use to go about doing that.

So you so can is that something that you guys would like to look at and and peruse and I'd be willing to hear proposal but I don't know that we're locked in with one company. No, no, we're not. Again, this is just a again just another thing of saying here's an idea that has not been tried before. Maybe this will go and accomplish the things that we're trying to accomplish. I'd like to do a direct direct mail. If you're looking at a target like Van Beerren, I'd like direct mail and and again continually improve flyers in you can get direct mail for pennies on the delivery directly and tell people and have it. So if I can change it here just a little bit to a different subject, finances. Who's paying for that?

Well, that's step one. You're going to have a new contractor coming in RA and they're going to want office one be paid for it. Where does just from my own information where does that come from? So if I'm going to that to sit down and have a conversation between the APC and the commissioner's office, right? Because this ends up falling at this. Aren't we sitting down having a conversation as far as far as the financial aspect of it? Budgets budgeting aspect of it, right? Because we're getting ready to head into 2027. Has RA reviewed the document that we have now that we're trying to get the the proposed comprehensive plan? Yeah, I gave him a link to the uh to the comp plan. I gave them a a link to the notes. Okay. So,

they put it together and put an RFP and say, "Yeah, we could do a you know, that makes sense from a planning professional." So, it makes sense. You could do a you know, these modules at at townships. How how much? Didn't ask. Didn't know if you guys would support it. Well, I know before that's what the RFP is though, right? They're preparing the RFP to send out to get requests. Yeah. From all consultants, you could get $140,000 Yeah. quote like we did this last time, right?

Well, if you remember, we had one of those one of those companies. No, it was Veritis. It was like $1,500 for the community engagement thing that we did. And I'm like, where did you spend that money? I know your salaries, but like I could we can get some barbecue and but I rea I'd like to go back to what you said. I'm still not following. You said the commissioners the APC would have to sit down and come up with some kind of a

again it's going to a budget discussion, right? Because again, we are a part owner in this and comes to it comes before us, right? So I'm not sitting there saying it it is a team. I operate on the team concept here. We're all trying to trying to find a direction, head in that direction, and and row in the same direction. So again, it can't simply just be throwing the APC or Kayla in front of the council and saying, "Hey, we need $140,000 for this."

I'm perfectly willing as a commission to sit down and craft and say, "Let's put this plan together and let's put these conversations together." And I think, like I I'll say it again, there's a relationship that is much more work not a cohort, not cooperative, let's put it that way. Then it then there has been and trying to say we're you have this issue, you have this concern, let's address it, right? Again, the whole prosecutor's office, let's go down the bridge discussions and all those things. Let's go down the repairs and all that. I don't think we I don't understand your your internal minutia on some of the stuff and how the council and the commissioners and stuff actually get along and how you work with that. But uh yeah,

it's on YouTube. It's kind of entertaining. It's going to come down. It will come down to blood for punishment. Hold for a second, please. Yes. Um just for your information comprehensive. Who are you? I am Phil Mccau. Phil Macau, private citizen. Uh full disclosure, I'm also the vice president of the town redevelopment commission. Uh the town financed the town comprehensive plan 100% with its three tips. Is there and the gift from the community foundation?

There was initial effort that was financed by the initial exploratory effort that was financed by the foundation. We appreciate you coming. Is there any more money in that tip? Yes. There you go. It sounds like we had the meeting on the right night. Take a vote. Done. Yeah. So moved. No, I'm just saying. I mean, you're talking about financing. Well, we don't have a tiff. I know. Right. But now, there's nothing stopping you. Those are taxing districts. I don't know that you could take that money from taxing districts and spend it on the county. Yeah.

It's kind of like it's like the fire. It's like the fire service. You can't have one township paying for an ambulance and running it all over the county. Well, Nashville situation. I don't know if that's the same case, but that's what I kind of see. Yeah. Tiff funds can only be spent in the tiff allocation area, correct? So, yeah. Yeah. So, if it was allocated for like Bean Blossom, it could only be used for Bean Blossom. Yeah. But those are all those are all town tiffs, right? So that it's all within the town and it's usually for

uh capital improvements. So if we Tim and Kevin Ron, if we would reopen this up and for more public input and follow some of the procedures on that that you have talked about discussed, you would be much more comfortable, I think, with looking at and considering a comprehensive plan that had that type of homework and background to it. Yeah. Yeah, cuz am I am I going to be safe in saying that what we have now that we've spent money on, you're not going to approve it? It lacks our concern was community engagement. Okay. But okay, but

we didn't get the you didn't get the feedback we're comfortable with and approving a plan that goes to the entire county. So rather than waste the money, you're not going to approve this as a set. We haven't approved it. No. Well, okay. So what I'll try tag team go ahead. I think what Ry's trying to say is Tim rather than start over with REA or another company and and develop a new new comprehensive plan. Can we take this one work with them and and

improve? Okay. Like, can we just adjust? Is there something we can add or subtract after we get community engagement? You know what I mean? Like, Veritis has already been paid. I don't care if their name's on it. I It's irrelevant to me. Who's It's our information. That's why I never understood why they got so passionate about a couple things to start with. It had They're not They don't live here. It's has nothing to do with them once they leave. Go at them. They do. A bunch of those guys own property here. And do they really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, the commissioners have not yet asked for this board of commissioners have not yet asked for public input this document. Correct.

Should we should that be our next step? Like if we think we're going to get people in for a bunch of money, why can't we prototype it out at a free commissioner meeting that already happens and say, "Hey, come here and tell us what you think about this." That might be a good starting point. I'm just thinking I don't want to throw away all the work and all the money. How many folks did you have show up at the public hearings for the comp plan? I can't remember. Wait, when you say public hearing, theformational meeting? You had to have You had public hearings, right? I'm telling you, just let me say we're talking about not letting you have chickens anymore. There was one person that spoke. That was Dina Patrick. I don't think you're ever going to get enough. No. To satisfy you, Jim. I don't mean you person. No, that's not true.

Not you personally. I mean, we'd all like to see more and more people get involved in policy development in government, but most people are very, very reluctant to do that unless they got to relax the grind on something. The town had two input meetings and there would be 75 people at one and 100 at the other and I can walk from one end to the other. Correct. That's pretty good for your size,

right? That's great. But you can't expect a 100 people to drive 10 miles. I I understand that we're not talking about the same thing, but I would recommend that you at least consider the experience that the town has had in putting together a comprehensive plan. One of the advantages with working with REA is they're already at least familiar with the town and hence with at least the periphery of the part that's the county. The town's already passed there and we are now on to the unified development ordinance. And that is where the the re-examination of the zoning comes in. Comprehensive plan doesn't talk about zoning, right?

And in fact, that was something we really wanted to get across because people were freaking out that, oh my gosh, you're going to reszone everything. No, that's not what they're doing. The big the big lift there was convincing everyone that this is your plan. It's public input. We're not going in with preconceived notions. And frankly, I think the product uh will stand for itself. It's it's quite good. I've read I would recommend that you at least consider the process that the town went through. I know there's all kinds of history with town and county and all that, but come on. That didn't come into play with with this. Not at all. Not at all. And I have a great relationship. We work together through the whole thing. to hear that.

So I'm Did we get an estimate from REA? No, they would not even give us one. Okay. I think that was because the timing was was didn't work for them because they were so involved. Well, that's the same now. Well, they're involved now with the UDO for the town and they estimate that as an 18month process. So, is that a is there a conflict of interest having them work on town? On the contrary, I think it's it's an advantage. Well, I was kind of asking them. Oh, sorry. No, I No, I I just Oh, I don't think for for the town and the county to hire the same subcontractor to do the same.

Okay, I think I guess to address your question. To me, it's it's you have a session. It's a prototype. It's a proof of concept. You have a few meetings at Van Beern. You get the input that we kind of outline the kind of information we want to share the input. Do a direct mail. Get as many people there. They've got a the volunteer fire department. They got a little, you know, bolden board up there that they can inform people. Uh, make as much contact as we can, have a few meetings and validate your plan. Um, we ask folks, here's here's your township, here's the zoning, here's what's allowed in these zonings and and get their input. If that input validates the plan, great. Um, that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for to validate the plan. Yeah, I'm not here. I'm not there yet. Yeah. Not where.

But one moment, please. I just want to take it back a step. We have 10 pages of the communication we did with the people that showed up. What type of character uh should growth resemble? Uh how should Brown County increase funding opportunities? Uh um how would you pri prioritize investment to encourage growth in the county? Um um what type of housing is needed in the county? I said 10 pages but there are two on each one and each one understand that each one of those questions was derived from what are the things that we see as a board and on the BCA right

monthly that we're dealing with that is in contradiction to our own document exactly so that was kind of why some of th those questions I mean we spent months coming up with just the questions right what's your point as far as finish so my my point is is that and not to put you down or thing, but we did get feedback. We got as much feedback as we could get under the circumstances. Uh, you know, in this day and age, people don't want to they they don't want to deal with junk mail and they don't want to deal with uh phone calls if it's not a number that they recognize as as stuff because to them it's spam and everything.

Kayla, how many responses did we get on the survey? Cuz hey, I'm gonna tell you that's a like don't sleep on being able to send out that survey because that's really cheap, right? To send out a survey on there. Yeah, it was like $99. That if you want different questions, I guess the re my whole in summation. I don't want to start over with without a more like what you want. We're not starting over, right? But I'm saying as we as where do we go from here? You said you're not there yet. The town parl's done. Okay. We We want to tweak what's going on in the county. We We have to do our due diligence 100%.

And we have to talk, communicate, come back. I think this was a great first meeting. Yeah. 100%. It's just the first meeting. I'm just saying like let me know like I'm I was trying to look for a clear I was hoping for a a list of hey, it's short here, here, and here. These three things are what we need to address. Hey, we need community input. That's the this the glaring thing around 400. Okay, so if my math math 14,000 people in the community, what's our 15? What's our percentage? What's our target? What's a win to be considered successfully engaged?

You know what I mean? Like let's get some targets that we can work towards to make something happen. That's another conversation. So I think the bottom line is you'd like to see more public input and I think us and and the APC that could probably worked out and and that and that those input sessions may validate your plan. Yeah. Problem with surveys guys it's not statistical insidal. Say that one more time. It's not statistical and it's anidal. Anecdotal I still don't understand what our plan now. Wouldn't you say survey data? Oh the survey. Okay. But wouldn't you say that if someone were like if they got an a code, what are they called?

QR code. I'm a Gen Xer, guys. I'm sorry. If you get a QR code at the poll when you were voting and he said, "Huh, okay." And you scan it on your phone and you fill it out. And I think that's what did it handing those out at the polls and there's 400 responses. You cannot catalog. You can't you can't do anything with that data. How many questions were were not answered? What do you mean? How many questions on survey were tracks? You can get the metrics a lot that weren't answered. About 44% if I remember the number. I didn't see a percentage of ones that weren't answered.

A statistical sample is a random sample of a population. You take a certain percent. That's statistically valid. If you want to apply those results countywide, you need a statistical survey. Do that. If you just want a general opinion on on a random group of people, you do a survey on on you do survey monkey. That's anecdotal. I wouldn't take that to the bank. It's not it's inut. I agree. So I see what you're saying. I I understand you the the it was the metric in which we applied that. So we shouldn't do Survey Monkey anymore because it's not a Well, it gets you feedback, but what what I do with that? You're implying that those results ought to be applied countywide. No, I'm not the only public input we got. I wouldn't go there. Yeah. Yeah,

I wouldn't go there.

Okay. anecdote about the town comprehensive plan. Um, we kind of floundered for a while and once we got REA, not only did we um, have some focus, but REA actually helped us implement those town meetings, those input meetings. They organized them. They had them all set up in library A and B. And uh, it wasn't just somebody asking, well, what do you folks want? It was really guided into various focus groups and what what actually it teased out public sentiment. And I would suggest that if you do get REA back uh that you include that as as part of the proposal is how do we get how would you organize? How would you how would you get this public input do the same thing? Yeah, they gave us directions. We went through I mean it wasn't just a it wasn't just like a pizza party and then we had steering team committee meetings after that that went through all the data for months. So I mean it wasn't we didn't rush it.

Mhm. But I think what was your budget for your comprehensive plan? What did you guys end up? Oh 80 80. Okay. And what did we spend? 37,00 37,000. Okay. So we knew when we voted to hire Veritis that we were going to spend the money we had to make progress and one of our conversations was we can do the Veritus route which is what a less than comprehensive comprehensive plan or we can do RIP the other guys quote or approach and just do SWAT so just gather information spend that 30 grand just to

getting public input that was And we all like we voted no let's go the other way. I think it was underfunded. I mean you're just not going to get something. That's exactly right. We did not have to use the funds to do it to the point that I'm not even sure I would have proceeded under those circumstances. Well, some of us scratched our heads. But you're absolutely right. The funding was was the deciding factor ultimately. But we had two companies that could provide us two different products.

One was the finished product that we wanted. not quite as comprehensive as we wanted it. The other one was a bunch of information for a finished product and then in 2026 reapply, get the balance of whatever grants that they were talking about and finish it. That was that was the other company's approach. The funding part of this is always going to be the tricky part of that because we we just don't we just don't fall into any area that okra is not going to help us. No. No. Right. It's just not going to happen. was that they and that was very disappointing but there was more than okra and I've got it in one of my notes. I remember um

I tried to keep notes as they were talking with it. Did Veritas produce that Dr. Yes. the one? Yeah, that okay. Okay. Again, I'm going to sit here. I'm going to add to say I don't want to start over. I don't

Do you want us to hire REA or get from REA? I basically want to basically see if you can go through the exercise there's a proof of concept. Let's just take a next step. Let's just take and identify one action item that needs to come from here. How about we take the proof of concept that he got from REA? He shares it with this board. You go through the exercise, look and see what you think about that proof of concept because I think the thing is about it is there's I will sit there and say he's wrong. was statistically insignificant the input we have. So you say what

it's statistically insignificant the the input we have when you only had 200 and some people engaged in these kinds of activities out of 15,000. You are you are you are not sampling correctly and I'm not comfortable making a decision on 200 people. I think I'm healthy that you recognize that up front. Are you 20,000 at the meeting? We asked what we asked. So far the process hasn't really a statistic and and again I'm shooting a number off the top of my head. Statistic significance example to me is at least at least 10% of the population if not maybe 20%.

So you want 2,000 response 2,000 engagements or let me finish this line up. or we wait and don't pass a comprehensive plan until we get 2,000 engagements. No, I don't know that that's the case. That's not the case. Um, when you look at the statistically valid survey when I did I did the income survey for the uh strategic plan back in 2017, we had a grant administrator do that one. We had of the 7,000 I think you had residents is is population size. I think we had to go out and get 600. That was statistically significant. That got us funding for a strategic plan. What was the population then?

About the same 15,000. But we they wanted residents. Were those targeted or were they just No, it's residents. We had to I gave them a data. Full-time residents or part-time residents? Residents. People lived here. What did you say? 600. 600 was the sample size. 400. I mean, we're not randomly selected in three months. Random. Randomly selected. How much you get back on that? Well, we got the uh whatever the federal government needed to validate to certify those numbers is what we got. I think we got 600. Well, I mean, you can send I don't know how many they sent out, but we got 600. I we had a great response. Randomly selected me. I mean, and we happened within a month.

Surveys went out. Uh people filled them out, sent them back in. I mean, we had a quick return on those things. So, if we did a survey monkey and got 600, then it would be statistically viable or nothing. No, it's random sample. You take you start off I think we may have had a population we did with yours youed who you were sending them to. We started with residents. Residents they had to be residents of the county. So I think there's maybe six or 7,000 residents. You do a random number generator on 7,000 and then you pick 600. They're randomly selected. That is that is statistically valid within 98%.

So of the you selected how many responded? All of them. We got 600 responses. I don't know how many out of the out of the statistical number that was identified there were 600. The random sample the statistical sample was 600. Okay. But you sent out more than 600. Don't know what the total was, but we got to say that's what we're I don't think we sent out we didn't send out 7,000. We sent out 600. 7,000 and got 600. That's what No, we sent I bet you we sent out about 600. Maybe 620. I I think we had like almost a a 95% return rate on those. Wow.

So, we I found the numbers I was looking for. We had 390 people answer the survey. 18 of those were not residents, right? So, not a big Yeah. But again, yeah, but we can kick those out, right? I mean, through that Yeah. Yeah, I mean this is just how long have you lived in Brown County? So again, I sounds like we've got an action item. We we run this company that you're talking about, REA, already has a format, an RFP. Yeah, an RF. They sent me They sent me their proposal.

So they've already sent it to you. So we don't need to send out an I thought an RFP. No, no, I'd send it to you. I'd send what they This is the guidance I gave them. They came back and said, "Here's what we can do. Good idea. We can do a prototype, a proof of concept. We can pick it in one township." You sent out an RFP. Just basically asked them, I asked them uh gave them that this gave them the plan, gave them this handout. Well, I gave them links, the information, gave them about two or three pages of general guidance, and they came back with, hey, here's we break it up in matrices, and here's here's what we can do.

And then they came back with here's kind of meetings that we could facilitate. just basically basic information was provided with regards to the comprehensive plan and then along with the information you've just seen here and they came back and said here's what a proof of concept what I'm asking is we don't need to seek other companies we have one that we're not going to ask anybody else to bid that's doing this no I'm not saying that I'm just saying look at the proof of concept and let's just validate to see if it's something that you keep saying RFP what do you mean request for purchase I kind of asked for a request for a proposal that's what I always know they don't give it to you give it to them yeah Yeah, I gave him guidance saying, "Here's what we're looking for. Here's here's what we've done. Does a proof of concept make sense? Give me a proposal." They're going to send him an order. No, no, no, no.

He needs to request. Did they send Did they send a number back? No, we're not there yet. I didn't know if we, you know, I didn't know where you guys would fall on this thing. Okay. Kayla, I think I sent you an early version of that. You I never saw a number. That's what I Well, again, we certainly weren't going to ask for something that costs more money. We don't have any money after spending 36 thou 37,000. Yeah. Like Well, you spent 10,000 of your money. We We were responsible for the cuz that that gift could have gone to somebody I mean somewhere else.

Yeah. I again I don't I don't want to come off combative. I'm not. I'm just trying to say if you just tell us what you want, that's what we'll do. Like we thought we were doing what you wanted. Well, you know, the fact is we'll have to depend on you when it comes to funding this. Well, that's the next step. Okay. One does the concept make sense and then we look for the bill. You know, I'm not talking out of turn here. We really don't have any other options here in terms of money and funding, do we? Not even close.

No, not even close. So, we're going to have to look at something different. Now, you guys are at the table with us and we're here with you. So, we're going to look to you for what do you suggest in terms of funding? And I have no promise myself of bringing more people in uh for opinions and ideas uh Tim that I think you're trying that you're really pointing at here. Uh this plan that we have met all statutory requirements. Okay. uh we did what we were supposed to do. The question is you're you don't think it was enough in terms of information from the community. And you may be right. You may be right. I mean, but the mechanics of that is how do you get that information in from people? How do you generate that that interest? And that's not always easy to do

because we've had meetings and meetings and meetings talking about exactly that. If you go back to the minutes, yeah, you where it was discussed. So, I think we did pretty much all we can do. Um, and now it's uh I guess it's time to address your concerns. All three of you. I you can assume that we're all three on the page of we want to look we you can assume we all three want to look at this move. Okay. All right. Is this is this draft available to the public? Yeah. It's on your website. It's on the website. It's it's under planning department. Okay. Draft. What's the next move, man? So that's again, so wait a minute. Wait a minute before we cuz it sure felt like a conclusion there. I'm good. Ron, you're not on board with that yet.

No, I done said that. I know. And I'm just clarifying. Do you have a list of items that you would like? What is it about it that needs to be different so that we've got some bullet points? I know we need more public engagement. If that's it, it's too too boilerplate for me because it looks like it's 30 years old. The wording in this looks like we've done been here before and the public had to fit with it. So, let us do our due diligence. We can come back, have another meeting, and we can be able to tell you where we're at at that point. So, I and I'm going to let me answer his question, okay? Because this gentleman's got a question. Okay,

I'll go ahead. So to you saying what what I what what I point to again I'm as I go through and seeing the zoning issues that have been coming across boards the one thing that I see is is we lack addressing the issues with regards to how to better work with our small businesses in our community. Well, that's a recent that that was it's not a recent. It's just come to light because of his situation, but it's always But really not. I mean, yes, I Yes. Yes. Well, that's Kevin that's a little bit above and beyond like once again the scopes of we

I'm not saying they set ordinances in it, but again, it's it's it's the it's again I know that comes after the fact, right? You go through your plan, you identify those things, but it our big things before were tourist rentals. Do we want more or we got enough? That was a because that's something that we bump into every month, right? Every month. Economic development is not part of the comprehensive plan, right? We know it's it helps solve them, but Yeah. But I think it's unique in our I think it's unique in our area because we do have so many small businesses that are that that are significant here, right? It's a servicing a community like ours and it fits there. And again, I don't know how it fits. Yes, sir. Mr. Wagler,

Kenny Wagner. I I really appreciate all the work that's been done on that that that plan because I know how hard it is to put a plan together. I help on one. Um but I I ran it through the last few days cuz I I and I somehow missed out on all the notifications and I have a I have a smartphone uh and which a lot of older guys that flip so they look at too. Um, you know, give me one of these. Well, how would I?

So, how how do you scan a QR code on one of them? You know, you don't. No. So, uh, I I think what the commissioners are saying I would agree with totally. Um, I read the first 50 pages and I don't think I heard one thing about anything other than u even any towns other than Nashville or tourism. I I think there was maybe a few things alluded to that, but tourism in Nashville was mentioned numerous times. Bean Blossom, uh, some of the other areas were not mentioned. Uh, and if you get take the public and they get online and read that, they're going to write you guys off before you ever start. That's correct.

I mean, because of the division there is between county and national. I I'm not there. I'm just saying you need to have I mean there's what 200,000 acres of timber in this county. There's a lot of loggers. Nothing was mentioned here. There's farmers. There's 12. There are definitely industrials here that we don't recognize.

Yes. And so so you need to mention them if if it's not it just needs to be mentioned. It it needs to be brought out that yeah this is this is important. open spaces, farming is important. Encourage uh you know uh farm markets and things like that. That that would be and and you hit the ball on the head when when you said bean blossom is a lost place. That is really we're losing there. I'm sorry. Bean Blossom is one. It's a lost opportunity. Lost opportunity really for that matter. Morgantown, too. But I mean, it's not ours technically, but from Bean Blossom to the line right there at Morgantown, there's so much potential there.

Yeah. Same with from here to Belmont and Belmont to Yep. county. I mean, you can't really do anything on 35 South. Just look at it. And the comprehensive paying really is to I'm going to shut up after this is get you to sign on. No, I'm not signing anything. uh is we're asking people what they want Brown County to look like in the next 20 years, 25 years. That's the bottom line and the regulatory agencies that that that handle that should be using that as a guide.

We don't almost no planning commissions do. I hate to bring that up, but most of them when they're developed or put on the shelf. So, I think part of this learning experience is that we probably ought to bring the development code, I'm sorry, our comprehensive plan into more of a focused, utilized, referenced document. I know that from the county I came from. It took us two days to find the comprehensive plan up there one day buried in office and that's no joke. And uh but it happens everywhere. So um if we're going to get a good plan, I think we should. I think we will. Then let's utilize that.

Okay. And I think you want it to be used. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's the way I felt. Well, and it's it's not Yes. Yes, we want it to be used, but we also don't want to look foolish when people come up with petitions for things and our own code counter, you know what I mean? Like doesn't even address. Yeah. It's just missing. So, I I've always said like I I'm a volunteer. I'm I don't have a personal agenda in getting anything like I don't have strong feelings about that back to

a certain vein of what we're doing. I'm not in it for that. I'm in it to help represent and make decisions for people and I don't want to make it on my own. I want to know what they say. We said that from the beginning like what's what's our next step? Where do we go from here? I sit out what I got from REA. Let's shoot it over and we'll schedule another meeting. Then we can keep over that. We're going to make it a regular. No, we need one more meeting a month, Ron. Um,

to be honest with y'all, I kind of Some people don't like to hear this phrase, but I've been around a long time. I know Kenny's been around a long time. Mr. Shilling's been around a long time. Um, driving down the road, Brown County looks a whole lot like it's always looked. Now, when I was trustee, I noticed I get off the roads and that's where I see the differences. And it's usually expensive homes. Sure. Nice. Nice homes. You go back these little I didn't Some of them close to me. I didn't even realize it out 20 years ago campaigning or so. I went back in roads and I went, gosh, when did this all happen? and it's only got more

and the homes have only got more expensive and they put him in harder places and I don't know it's it's a big issue. So I'm good you all are good for tonight. So I think the thing I hear is he's going to send the proposal that we the information that we got from Marier and then I like I said I am look at over ponder make make recommendations changes we can then engage and go forward and then have them go through and say well if you're looking to go forward here's what that dollar sign needs to be and then that will give the commissioners the opportunity to go through and say where do we need to step in and help and try and fund.

Sounds good. And it and it would be easier to identify a two-year plan over a 25 year plan. Sure. Oh, yeah. But if you got to redo it every two years anyway. No, I thought it was supposed to be you're f I thought your comprehensive plan was supposed to be focused on like a 15 or 20 years out. It's supposed to. But you're supposed to update it every two to five. Yeah. And so you're looking out the way out in the future, but you are updating it. I'd be happy if we could get it to five. Okay. What? Five. Five years of planning. Five. What does it look like in five years? Okay, one more since before we close. Real quick. No. Yep. Real quick.

We've talked about it a couple times. I've brought it up individually with people. The high school has reached out wanting opportunities for students to serve and to to be involved. What do we got to do to get it at a count? It doesn't need to be individually. Does would it need to be the assessor's office has to do this program and the APC has to do this program and the recorder's office has to do or can we just say hey send us five kids a week or whatever and let somebody start developing because there's plenty of stuff to put kids busy doing and you mean involved in county government involved in we had talked about getting the girls some help right

and it's like why don't we use student Kyle said cuz he did a program with the surveyor's office when he was in high school before he went to Rose Holman. I know, right? Like it got him involved in and we can still do that in the school. In other words, facing basically like in a mentorship program. It's not even a mentorship. It's it's internship. Hopefully, you engage them in civic engagement and they see what their county government is and does. Very valuable. But you're also getting them out of school and they're working and we get some free labor. Are we being recorded? We get We are now we get some

uh positive opportunities for students to do like data entry and social media and stuff like that. I would if as long as we can figure out how to approve it before they post it, that would be probably important. That it No, you didn't. That was that was Are we doing this again next month? When do we want to look at another meeting? Died on the vine right there. No, no, no. It didn't. So, let me let let me not her not let her kill that. I I I'd like to see that because that's one of the kind of concerns I have here is that, you know, I have an 80-year-old father and he had absolutely no idea what the hell the surveyor did in this county. We don't want him coming in here. No,

we're talking about somebody younger. I know. But again, that has a lack I think in part of it is getting our younger constituents engaged and involved and exposed. But he would bring character. He would bring Yes, he would definitely bring character. I'm just saying somebody showed that to me this week. I don't remember who. I'll say it to you, but it was from I think Dean Keau. Was it Dean Keer? Faer starts with a K. Anyway, I know him. I just didn't know how to say his name. Uh I Man, that'd be huge. I know we would use them one day a week, I'm sure.

If we could have a kid on Wednesdays or on every what is it? Block scheduling still. So, it'd be two on three off like every other day or whatever. Take them for one time payment or anytime they want to come up here and get out a fifth period. Yeah. Yeah. They're offering it out to the whole community, which is great, right? We just I don't have the authority to call the high school and say, "Yeah, send one over." I'm hoping you guys do, right? Okay. Yeah. In the news. And I would I would think some of those kids would come from Eagle Manufacturing, but the contact person I would say that you would contact related to that would be Gavin Steel. Oh, perfect. Okay. Because

So, but who who has the authority to do that? Is that the question? Well, who who pulls the trigger and says send them? So the question I think is that kind of sets in an HR responsibility. So it sets in the commission all down there there will be things I have to do. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to cause work for you. We've talked about it for a year. Give me a give me a student to help with that. Right. Yeah. Believe me, we could all use I guarantee you there's kids that would go out with him and go, "Holy crap. You mean I can make a living?" Yeah. Walker dismiss. Yeah. Commissioner is going to make a motion to adjourn our session. Second. So,

all right. Commission meeting planning commission meeting. Any motion? Wait a minute. I have a question. Kayla, we set up a date another meeting. I didn't get an answer. Set one up for next month. Same working session. I'll send the RP out. one petition that may or may not come to fruition for next month's meeting. I'm all about being engaged. Okay? And I've told you guys I've told all of you individually. If there's something I can do, let me know. Help. So, we'll plan to meet next month. It'll it won't be right at 6:00. We will still meet at 6:00. Okay. But we've got one petition, like I said, that may or may not. All right.

Can you just send an email to us? Yes. Thank you. Y I move that we adjourn 22. All those in favor say I. I was finished. Why? Huh? Why? Cuz it makes you plank. Did you die? Oh, no. We just sat in the drunk.