Council - Regular Meeting

I like to call this November 24th second budget meeting to order. You need to roll off. No.

Okay. Is this something Frank you just put on our desk? So, why don't you explain uh before I get to the public? You got you got a minute. Just let me because we we just got this. So, why don't you explain this to me? So, you're you're saying hire additional people?

Yeah. I I don't uh I don't agree with the the statement that we should move towards a part-time police department. I think the people in Bristol deserve to have a stable department, something that we don't have to uh worry about, you know, every other month we might have to hire another part-time officer. We have a stable uh uh squad system. Uh this basically is a four squad system which we already have. Um the only difference is you know with the additional positional lieutenant we lose a person from a patrol. So uh that's where the extra u officer would come would would have to commit. Um, I think uh there's some there's some ways that we can u work with [clears throat] uh negating some of the overtime once we get rolling. And I would say probably looking at a schedule that might be more effective where it doesn't require so much uh the need for overtime. So, that's something that going forward I would work with the the police department, the chief, and you know, try to determine maybe a schedule that might be more advantageous. You know, during the during the uh the election, I knocked on over 2500 doors, spoke to four or 5,000 people. I got a sense for what they need and what they want. And what they what the the main thing that I heard was about police response times. There were stories about, you know, late response times. There were stories about not responding. And late response times, you can you can always basically say what that what caused

that. If you look at the if you look at the amount of activity that night, that could cause it to be late. But not responding. and and I I didn't hear from just one person. I there was a lot of people that said they had called at times and nobody responded. So what we need to do is we need to make sure that we have a a staffing level so that those types of things don't happen. So the question I mean I'll go I'll pass the chief on that. Do we not respond to calls? Not that I know of. No, I haven't got any complaints of officers not responding to calls. I mean, the county would have records of that if we respond to a call. Yes,

but I don't think we can pull all them records tonight. But here here's my question. I'm just relating what

Yeah, I understand. Here's my question. We cut an officer to save money. Whether people believe that or not, you could see the budget's 1.8 million short right now. adding two more officers, you want to add another 200,000 to the to the budget because there's no guarantee that anybody's going to retire. There's cops eligible to retire and there's cops eligible to go out on permanent disability, but we don't know if that's going to happen or not. I mean, if we don't have a crystal ball to say, okay, well, these two guys that are eligible for retirement are going to retire. So, do we all want 20 cops? Absolutely. But by hiring cops, that doesn't solve the problem. The problem, in my opinion, is we're handcuffed with a contract right now that we're going to be going into negotiations. They did call and they said they want to meet in December. So, we scheduled two meetings, but I showed you the I mean, I'm not going to put it back up on a screen. We got $385,000 in overtime for the police department. It's insane. But the reason for that is because they choose, and I use that word again, they choose to work overtime. So whether you're unless that contract gets changed, I don't care if you hire five cops, 10 cops, you go back to 12 hour shift, 8 hour shift. If it says you need two full-time officers on at all times, you're going to pay overtime. There's no way to get around because you don't know if you're going to get sick tomorrow. There's no guarantee you're going to call out. We don't know what's going to happen. Something could happen to them. So, you still pay the overtime. The only

way to cut costs and to lower this budget is to hire part-time help. And you fill that you back fill the shift with part- timerrs because now you're going to save money. You can't save money. Look, when we had issues with squad five and all, we went up to 17 cops or 18 cops. [clears throat] We needed them. We had a lot of issues in town. But for Patricia, we start guys retired. We never replace them. And that's what we're looking to do now. We unless you tell me you're saying hire, but tell me how to pay for them. I mean, do you have a suggestion on how to pay for him? Well, I know I know that uh previously uh there was a uh a need to hire um someone I think it was the officer to follow and you you somehow managed to think outside the box at that time and you hired somebody even though it it it changed your staffing level. So I know that. So, I'm just saying in this day and age, okay? And you can say that that nothing happens in Bristol.

I never said that that we don't need that. But I'm saying through my experiences in law enforcement and and and doing all the arrests for the last 23 years that that the people in town deserve a full-time policy. So, let me ask you a question. And if you look at this, you're only hiring one extra person. I mean, well, you're you're at 10. You're saying somebody's going, you know, did somebody tell you you're going to retire?

Not really. And if if if one of those officers who we know is not going to come back to work for disability, okay, so if he goes and you replace him with furoughed officer, okay, that still brings you to 10. Okay. So, the extra the extra officer would be so that we could go back to a system where we have a full-time detective. Okay? I know the chief said we don't need one, but the quality of the of the reports and the the efficiency of the investigations, okay, are much stronger when you have a full-time detective. Okay. Um I don't know how they're doing it now. There's been some investigations I know that probably should have been wrapped up with arrest by now that but they haven't and it's been months and it that you shouldn't have that. Joe, I mean I you need to resp I don't know what's going on with all this.

I disagree with bringing the fulltime detective back. I wanted to tell you why. And all [snorts] the arrest that all the cases other than two that have taken a long time because of outside agencies are completed at this time. Um, but just the response to the full time detective position in 2025. The detective has five investigations

for the year

for the year. So I don't understand why in 2025 up until this point the detective has five arrests for the year and that's five investigations for the year for 11 months going into the 12th month. My recommendation is to continue to keep the detective where he's at in the patrol to help cover the street and he knows and he's done it. If a major case comes in, he gets assistance from one of our part- timerrs who was a detective for years and he could come in on overtime if needed to investigate the case.

[clears throat] the case load is is not um at the level where we need a full-time detective. Can I ask the uh chief a question?

Chief, when it [clears throat] comes to a investigation by a detective in Bristol, Bur, correct me if I'm wrong, but would there there even if we had a detective, the scope of what he would be investigating is is limited, right? in the sense of if there was a major, let's just say it, I hate to say it, but a murder in town, who would investigate that? So, if there's a major case, as we had uh a couple years ago with the homicide down in the Mil Street parking lot, the Bucks County DA's office assigns detectives to come down and they uh work with us and pretty much take the lead with all their equipment and technology um and investigate the case. They don't disclude us from the case. They keep us working the case with them. But they on all major cases they take the lead

and then they obviously have more resources at their disposal to do such a thing. Correct. Correct. And they're in direct contact with the district attorneys. The the county detectives are in direct contact with the district attorney's office on a daily basis. They all work in the same place. So at the current level, our detective would have had five investigations up and through almost all the way through November for for the year of 2020. Yes. Five arrested. There might have been a couple more investigations.

I got you, [cough] [clears throat] but we had five arrests and none of them were uh like you said like a murder or anything like that. But the duty of a detective is not only to to handle their their arrest and their investigations, is to act as a support for the patrol officers and follow up on their investigations, thereby uh relieving them of having to work overtime to do that. Then let them return back to patrol and and do what they need.

I hear you. I I hear you. Um, my concern about I I think we're getting lost a little bit in the weeds of of here's where where I am. I I don't want any of this to be a back and forth about who supports police and who doesn't. I think we all support police in this room without a doubt, but I think our police department does a fantastic job. Someone can fact check me on this. Um, it's been a while since I looked at it, but it was this calendar year. We often use Ben Salem as a model. I know Ben Salem is has gotten a lot of accolades for what they've done for their police department. I believe I could be wrong that about 30% of their budget is spent on their police department. This is we're approaching 50% right of when we're at the $3.6 million.

I can only say I can only say your tax money your tax revenue does not cover the police department. Not enough with your general fund taxes is not enough to pay for your police department. And what is what is our total budget? Do you know the total 7 million?

I didn't I didn't know if there was a one one.

So 70 7.25 million. And right now we're budgeted for 3.624 624 million. I I mean I I I hear what you're saying and and I just think at this point in time our job is to make decisions that are best for the taxpayers. They're not always the easiest decisions, but we are at 50 plus% 50% of our budget on a town that's 1.9 square miles on on the police. And again, I I don't want any of that misinterpreted as people don't support the police because we absolutely do. But there comes a time when we just have to look and say how many ever years ago it was when we had the squad squad five um that we needed it. Now we are 50 plus% of our budget on the police department. Crime is coming down everywhere which is a good thing. Um but I definitely think our police has done an amazing job in in coordination with all the other things that are happening in town to bring us to a place where now we have to make decisions. And no disrespect to a detective, they they do good work. But when you look at someone that ultimately has to issue five arrests over the course of an entire year and we're looking at tough spots to make cuts, it just seems like that's where we are.

It's my understanding that's five arrests that he's made as a patrolman because he's been working patrol for 2025. Okay. So, here's what there are other investigations he would be involved in as a detective. Here's what I don't understand. A police officer, whether you're full-time or part-time, you're a police officer. You're sworn to do your job. You're act [clears throat] 120 certified. You took the same test. You do everything you're supposed to do as a regular police department, as a police officer. Am I right or wrong? I don't think they take a test. They don't take a test. They get hired as a part-timer. Do they take a test?

To get hired by act 120, act 120 certified. Yeah, they're all certified certified interview process and a background and but there's no test process. No, but they're act as a full-timer whether you're part-time. True. So the t if you said how many people did you talk to? 4,000 or 4,000 people? 5,000. If you went to M4000 and told them you want to raise their taxes by $1,000 this year to pay for cops that are making 280,000 220,000, how many think we'll raise their hand? Well, probably not many of them, I'm sure.

Okay. Then next year you got to tell them we're going to raise it another 20%. So instead of a,000 now you're paying 1,200. And that's going to keep going up. It's not going down because once you hire, you can't get rid of a cop. We were fortunate that the cop that we furled was we were able to lay him off and everybody thinks it was personal. Was never personal. You can't sustain a budget that's out of control with police. It's just there's no way to control this unless this budget, this negotiation period, we're successful and we feel we will be. But we felt we were successful in other negotiations and we lost. So that doesn't mean

anytime you go to arbitration. Yeah. You don't know and you know that's where it's going to go.

So we don't know what's going to happen. But our like Greg said our job is to make sure the taxpayers are protected. Now we could go borrow money because we have we're debtree and so okay we want to go borrow I don't know half a million dollars to hire two cops. Right now next year you got to go borrow a million because you got to pay that half a million plus. Now you got another half a million. Then it go it's like the rate start by paying it on a credit card. Before you know it, you can raise taxes in the debt service. I don't think anybody wants to raise taxes anymore. Have you ever have you ever uh thought about putting the referendum out and [clears throat] and gauging what the temperature is of the people in town whether or not they would they would pay for a pay tax increase for for a full-time police department? Nothing

we could do. But right now you need I just need you to tell I mean you you drop you you I know what you're saying you want to do the squads and but nothing says here how you want to pay for it and that's the problem we have right now. We need to close the $1.7 million deficit or 1.8 insurance. Uh today insurance we in include a 12% increase. We got a call today. It's going to be 20%. So we needed to add another 8% to our medical which is 37,300 37,000 more today

that we found out that that's going to go up. Now that's not all due because of the police department. Correct. No, it's broken down. Uh Angie, what was that? I don't know. The police is $21,000 increase. Administration is a,000 license inspection 6,000 and public works is $9,300.

Joe, I mean, you

So, I just wanted to read this for council if I could. [clears throat] The documented informant reports in the RMS system. It's the calls that were written. So in 2021 we were 55 5,533. In 2022 it went to 5,36. In 2023 it went to 3868. 3,868. In 2024 it dropped to 2,493. And as of today we just broke the 2,000 mark with five weeks left to go in the year. So we're we're still continuing to drop. So, um, as you can see that the the guys are doing a good job out there that are working and that the calls for service are dropping. Um, and I I look at back in the day, I was the first one to stand here and argue that we needed police. We needed squad 5 because of what was going on. But if you drive through our neighborhoods today, tonight, whenever, they're all different now. They've changed. The wards are different. We've done a great job. And I just I can't sit here and tell [clears throat] you in good faith that we need more cops and that [clears throat] the taxpayers need to pay for them. I just can't do that. The numbers show differently my experience of 34 years in the police department here and these numbers and what I see on a daily basis because I don't sit behind a desk. You all know that. I'm out there looking to see what's going on during the day and the night I come in and and I can't sit here and and ask you for more police officers knowing that you would have to raise taxes and that there's no need for that at this time. But I can tell you because of the vicinity where we live between two major cities that could change at any time. And if it does, I

will come up here as your chief and tell you that it's changing, that the numbers are changing and that we need to consider going back to maybe a squad 5 situation if we have an uprise in certain neighborhoods or we need to consider hiring some more uh police officers. But tonight, I cannot sit here and honestly in good faith tell you that we are understaffed and we need more full-time police officers. We still have two out on um workman's comp right now that we don't know when they're going to come back. So, if you're asking me, should we hire two full-timers to replace the guys that are out on disability that are getting paid 100% of their salary and their benefits? I I can't tell you. I can't go along with that. I can't recommend that.

And the problem is if they come back, are you going to lay the two off again or lay I mean, where are you going to get the money?

And there's not even a starting salary in the budget. So the whole [clears throat] look, if we have to hire cops, if we had to borrow money, we borrow money and raise taxes. But I still think you could be as just as effective. And I'm not saying the whole department should be part- timer. You know what I mean? We still need our full-timers that are here, but through attrition, I think as people retire, we really don't need to bring hire more full-time police officers. It's just we can't afford it. I mean, if you could tell me how to close this gap or how to hire them without raising taxes, I'm all ears. But to sit, I could sit here and say, I was in your seat, I could sit there and say, "Hire three or four more cops." But that doesn't make our town safer. When you say it's making it safer or it may make it more state look, it's full-time. Yes, they're here. They're they live they work here. None of them live here except a couple. So, it isn't like they're community oriented. They're going to do a they work. They go home. But yeah, if you got a guy that works here every day, he takes pride in what he does. But I think the part-timers do too. Their records show that they're outperforming that full-timers by like two, three to one. So, who's doing who's producing more right now? Well, the part- timerrs are producing. We have a part- timerr that wrote 369 tickets this year. We have,242 stops as of October. And when I say traffic stops, I mean we're not issuing tickets on every traffic stop. And that's not what it's about. We're not trying to issue all these tickets. It's the presence of the police. We get grant money for these aggressive patrols and occupant safety patrols. And you see police cars out there on stop signs up on 13. It is the presence that we have

out there that using the part- timerrs as my proactive police officers um out there doing the stops and they're making drug arrest, gun arrest once in a while with them stops, but it's the presence of the police officers out there that's helping drive these numbers down. and the part- timerrs, you know, I'm utilizing them as our proactive units and it's working and it's been the numbers are dropping drastically since I took over in 2021. It's cut in half. Thank God. [clears throat] I just can't go tell somebody in town that I want to increase your taxes when that people are having a hard time maybe paying for medicine or whatever. [clears throat] I mean, you got seniors in this are struggling right now. And $500, a,000 or $1,500 tax increase for the average person. I'm not talking about people that could be a couple thousand. I mean, your taxes will go up a couple grand.

Absolutely. You know, nobody we think you won't drive down your development. You go raise everybody's taxes $2,000. So, you know, there's a fine line and I think I got to trust the chief. He's doing an outstanding job. Crime is down. We had 12 calls on a weekend, six calls on a weekend. We this past weekend with as busy as it was. It's a proven fact that we can do it with part- timers. I mean, if that doesn't happen, then I I'll be the first one to sit here and say, Frank, I was wrong. You know, you were right. And it isn't about being right or wrong. It's about protecting the people that science, pardon me.

What I'm talking about is not an exact science. It's not it's not a guarantee that that the plan works. I mean, there's a lot of factors. One of the factors this past year is that that road that caused a rise in the uh overtime was injuries and then a couple of precers out for extended period of time for investigation. So, I mean, that's what helped to drive the tax the uh overtime up. I mean, that's that's pretty

Yet, not to interrupt you, but yet when Joe when the I say Joe, no disrespect, when the chief put in a part-timer instead of a full-timer, they filed a grievance and we had to go pay that person who didn't get called in. So, it shows you that they don't care about the burrow. They care about this, how much money they can make. I I to me that was that was embarrassing to file a grievance against this burrow when you're making over $200,000.

I I I understand what you're saying. Okay. But the the nature of the beast with with police is this. Okay. Money, money and benefits are one thing, but if for some reason they don't feel like they're being appreciated, that can slow things down. I mean, if Joe will tell you, if people aren't happy with with what's going on, they slow down. They don't write tickets. They don't do stuff. That happens. Okay. It's it's just the nature of But then they're not doing their job. And they're not doing their job. Exactly. Exactly. But you got to figure out a way to to get everybody to buy into the system. Yeah. Okay. So, that's the that's the trick, trying to get people a tie into the system.

Can I respond to that, Council President?

Okay. [clears throat and cough] So, what drives up the overtime is not the fact that we're short-handed. What drives up the overtime is that in the collective bargaining agreement, it says we have to have two full-timers on at all times and they elect to work that overtime. We have a full complement of part- timerrs. There's nine down there right now that this week are going to work the whole week because the part the full-timers pretty much took off the whole week. Um because they can because of the collective bargaining agreement. So what's driving the overtime up is that artic the article in the overtime article in the contract that we have to have two full-timers on and offer to them first. So when it's convenient they can work it when they want to work it. When it's not convenient like this week then we use the part-times. [clears throat] That's what drives up the retirement. We have plenty of men and women downstairs to cover the streets. We were short six off full-time officers for a period of time over the in through the spring and in the beginning of the summer and we did very well during that period of time utilizing the part-time officers that are downstairs for that reason. And the other thing is everybody says like you run the people. I don't know why you're saying about you're the guy that signed the contract. You're the guy negotiated. You're the guy but and I negotiated against him for contract.

I'm aware of that. You know, we battled, you know, but we didn't agree to this. This is done by, you know, I said last contract the arbitrator came in and, you know, we hired a guy to burn $50,000, you know, for law firm to come in and we said we really got a good shot and we lost. Well, maybe maybe a suggestion might be, and I don't know whether it would fly or not, but is in your negotiations, you make that a part of negotiation. See if there's a way that that can be uh modified. Oh, well it's we feel we're it's not even part we feel it's a managerial right to take that out. So but again who knows

if [clears throat] an arbitrator come here it's easy to come here and say let's bring Kevin back. We all know who you're talking about. Let's somebody's but you're not telling me how to pay for it. Well Kevin would be paid for by that the other officer who we know is not coming back for sure. But is is is he going to We don't know that. No. I mean, workman's competing him for how long? Over a year. He's uh talking about the one that's been out for three years. Yeah.

Uh he uh a workers comp that's been paying him. He's not part of the existing 10 that we discuss in the budget. 11 that's been out there for three years being paid by the insurance company, not being paid by the taxpayers. So, you know, you shouldn't even be talking about him. He has no impact on this budget in my opinion. So, he's not part he's not part of the 10. No, he's not part I thought Allan was the 11th. Well, who are you talking about? Allan's the 11th. Yes. He's talking about the other guy.

The other guy that's been out with back problems. That's who I'm talking about. Allan's gone. He's already retired. He's still on the books. Oh, it hasn't gone through.

And do you know once they're done, we still have to pay their medical for four years post ret post medical. And in this contract, they're asking for eight years postretirement. Eight. one officer and me and Angie did the numbers today. I stopped in. If if they win the 8-year postretirement, that will be $400,000 per cop that this taxpayers have to pay for their medical benefits. Now, is that real?

Let me let me tell you let me say so just so you understand where I come from. Okay? I know I know about contracts. I negotiated them when I was police officer on both sides. I negotiated the contract here with with Fidel and the police when I was chief of police. So, I know what you I know what you're talking about. Okay. There's a lot of pitfalls in that contract. Do you know how much you get for every every traffic ticket? Mhm. What do you get? Not much. $1250. $12.50. And how many get thrown out? You know that number. And what's [laughter] And what's the officer what's the officer get paid? It's a hundred and some dollars or two to shove for court.

I mean, I'm not I'm I know these numbers because I know what they get to go to court. We get we pay them a couple hundred dollar to go to court and the judge throws the ticket out and you know that, right? We get zero and they get paid to go to court. Well, see, that's a fallacy there. It is. Yeah. We got a record of how many tickets were thrown out. Not not thrown out. You have to remember something. Officers come in and say to me, "Judge, this guy's okay. Can you dismiss it?" Okay. So, it it comes back on me because it happens in my court. Joe will tell you that that happens. Excuse me. The chief happens all over. Okay? It's not just

So, don't just put it don't just don't try to cast it as me that I just threw the tickets out. The point is you're saying how much they get. Yeah, we know. We know what they get. We know how much we get and a lot of these tickets are dismissed. So, it's easy to show up and grab a couple hundred for an hour. There's so many things in this contract. And when you were negotiating, there wasn't binding arbitration.

There was now Well, how come they didn't settle a contract for nine years when we took over? when when when I was the chief, okay, the last contract that they had, and I'm not saying anything bad about the past manager, he came to me and he said, "What do you think the that the guys would settle for?" And I said, "Give me about a week or so." So, I come back and I lay it out to him and I said, "If you offer this to these officers, they'll accept that contract." came time for the meeting, he presented a whole different plan. Went to arbitration. What do you think they got when he went to arbitration? Everything that I told him we could settle for without doing anything was given to them in the in arbitration. So, I know a little bit about contracts and I know a little bit about negotiating them. I did it as a police officer and I did it as the chief to help the burough. Well, we'll find out in couple weeks what's going to happen, but tonight we need to balance a budget. So,

and I just bring up one other thing that you might think about for funding. You know, Bristol Township's having great success with their traffic cams. Okay. What's to stop us from doing beaver and bath? So, I'm glad you brought that up. I try to stay on top of things. I met with the chief today because we had a rescue squad meeting and he's on the rescue squad board and we just start talking about different things after the meeting. Do you know Bristol Township doesn't get that money? They don't get any of it at all. Goes to pendant. Oh, okay.

But they pay they pay for the cop every a cop has to review every single ticket before it's issued to see if he was. So there's a cop they now they have guys tied up reviewing the cameras they get paid for that cop's time or administration time and all that but all the fines goes to Pendot and if they want to apply down the road for a grant to do something with an intersection cuz I said to Cindy today she's a vice president of council I said man you guys are killing it I want to get one stop sign at Fargate Avenue and I said we have to we can balance our budget and they said You know what? We don't That's something I didn't know. I thought the

we don't get the money. So did I for But he also said that the uh the burrow is not eligible because too small. We're too small of a town. The state won't do it for small municipalities. So they feel like it's just that the money. They might be doing a revenue stream. Yeah. And we don't get any money. Pen dollars and put a camera here.

That's crazy. And to to Louis point and to what you guys are are talking about here, I just think we need to not lose sight of the fact that these it's an economy of scale thing, right? We talked about Ben Salem, we talked about Bristol Township. Their resources just far exceed ours. We are limited by I mean you see how much the school district as an example just struggles with with funds because it is just we just have a much more difficult task with our budget with a 1.9 square mile. I think we do a heck of a job in keeping an eye on our fiscal responsibilities while also continuing to put public safety first while also operating under the constraints of what a small town like this has to operate under. Ben Salem's in the 30% range. I looked in Bristol Township, too. They're in like the 3540% range of what they spend on their on their police department. And that's because they they can um I don't even think we we I don't even think we can consider what you're saying. Not because not for any reason other than the amount of money that it costs. I mean, we are spending 50% of our budget on our police department. And again, I just don't think we can lose sight of that. That's not sustainable. That's just not something that will stand the test of time. And at some point in time, if we don't make difficult decisions now, we're going to have to make way more difficult decisions later.

Just so you understand. Yeah. Okay. This isn't a hurt feelings thing if if you don't go along with this. I understand this. Okay. You were asked for my recommendation. I gave my recommendation. That's what I honestly think would would would serve the burl. I think it's a very substantive conversation,

but I also understand that we all take an oath to do our best for the burrow. and I know you're going to do your best for the bow because we honor that oath that we take. [cough] So, it's it's not going to hurt my feelings or get me upset that this that my my proposal that's not my concern. I I I and I I mean that again, not in any combative way. That is actually what I'm trying to cut through is the red tape of my concern aren't your feelings. My concern aren't my feelings. My concern aren't Ralph's feelings. My concern is that we're spending 50% of our budget plus on the police department and I just don't think that's I understand. I understand 100%. Thanks.

Can I respond to Greg for one second? So Greg brought up a very good point about the police department. I just want everybody to know that one of the things the part- timerrs do and we wouldn't be able to do without the part- timerrs and the school board is um serve the purpose of putting police officers in the schools, Senator Gate and Bristol High School on a daily basis [clears throat] because of the grant that they get for the part-time to pay the whole salary for the part-time officers to be in them schools. And two, could you imagine the overtime cost if we utilized full-timers for all the events that we have in town? If we just had full-timers for them events, the part-timers are utilized and serve a a great purpose for all the events that we have in town and we have a lot of events in town that we have to protect. So, just to add to where Yep. You're saying that they'd serve a wonderful purpose for us.

That grant, I'm sorry. That grant pays for a parttime officer. Does he pay for one? When we did the grant, we did it for at the part-time salary so that we can have an officer in each school. If we did it for a full-time salary, we wouldn't be able to put an officer in the school. I just wanted to make that clear.

We just want I think moving forward, you know, we're going to all work together for the next four years. I just want you to know that nobody on this council is against, like Greg said, the police. And we want to do, we want to put the best police department out there, the best fire department out there, the best rescue squad department out there. That's our job. But the main thing we need to do is make sure the taxpayers and the seniors in this town are protected. And we all could shoot from the hip and say, "I think we should hire three more secretaries. We should hire two more street and highway department. We're hoping we lose some people in the street and highway department. We just can't afford it anymore. [clears throat] I mean, you know, everybody's salaries just keep increasing. So, before we I mean, I don't know. I still don't know. You presented this. Where do you want me to go? I mean, I'm following your lead. Thank

it was just a suggestion. I I I presented what you wanted from me. What my what my budget going to present a budget. You just gave me there's no numbers. Well, there there's nothing else on the budget that that needs to be addressed. I mean, the cars are are taken care of. Uh staffing level is the only difference that we had. Salary level, I couldn't give you an estimate on what the salaries are going to be cuz we don't know if it's going to be 2% 3%. Increase. We added Angie 2% to the budget. All right.

That's what we added. So in my mind this was the most pressing issue which I what what I felt would be the most efficient uh way that for the police department okay I may be wrong now it's not an exact science like I said but I will work I will work along with everybody and I will work with within the con the constraints of the budget you know but we don't want you I mean the reason we this whole thing came about is we didn't want you to say they tied my hands cuz I couldn't do my job because uncle we want you to know that we're doing we got a $3.7 million budget

for police. Let me just say this R. If if I wanted to say that I would say it here in council right now in this meeting where people can watch it. That's not my intention. I'm not trying to say that council doesn't care about the citizens and businesses. and the police department. Okay. I care about the police department because I was a police officer for 28 years, you know, and I care about this town because this town has been very good to me. [clears throat] No, I know. You know, I've been very fortunate, you know, not growing up here, but being, you know, appreciated here. So, that's why I'm here,

you know, cuz I want to give back to the community. I have no agenda, no hidden agenda. Okay? I just want you to know that we're all here for the same reason. We want to do what's right for the bird. All right. So, I'm sorry I didn't go to the public. Does anybody have anything they want to say and go to the [clears throat] podium? Say your name. I just have a question. You could go to the podium. My name is Don Hogan. I just have a question for mayor elect. Um, during your campaign, I believe you had literature that said that you wanted to lower taxes for seniors if you were elected. And I wondered if that's something you're going to be able to get done before the budget passes.

Well, my intention to bring that up after I became mayor. I didn't want to bring it up. Okay. I will come up with a proposal going forward next year to lower taxes for seniors. seniors, first responders, not a big tax, but after looking at what you got there, you know, that might be a tougher hill to find. Well, I I don't think they can hear you. He's texting me. He said, "Can you repeat your question?" Oh, I'm sorry. Who am I speaking to? No, people at home can't hear you.

Okay. My name is Don. I just had a question for the mayor elect that during the campaign you had had literature out that said that you were going to lower taxes for seniors and and I wondered if that was something you were going to get done you know prior to the budget passing or before the budget pass that that would be next year. Right now I'm just the mayor elect. So that's something that'll take me a year to work on once I take office. Okay. But it's a promise that you made and that you intend to keep. Yeah. I I'm going to try. Okay. I didn't say I would I didn't say it as a promise I was going to do that. Okay.

What I said was that I would like to have that taxes as a as a a way of showing respect to the elderly, first responders, and the veterans in town and small decrease in taxes. Could be a couple hundred dollar maybe shared by the school district. Just a little something because, you know, we always have a tendency to honor people after they're not here. And I think that a tax break for them would be showing that we appreciate what they do while they're still here. That's why. Okay. Well, I look very much forward to hearing your plan for that as a senior taxpayer in the burrow. So would I. Thank you.

So you do not that you do know you can't lower taxes for seniors. You can't do that. It's got to be done townwide. Oh, does it? You can't just lower taxes for seniors for five. I didn't know that. I didn't note that I didn't want to waste your time on No. Okay. Well, that's one less thing I got to worry about.

I just I also just want to stress um that uh you know, I say this at the risk of of getting my own parents upset, but [clears throat] young people are really struggling right now. Like really struggling to get into houses to to to afford anything. Um, I respect my elders to the ump degree. Uh, but I think it's widely held at this point in time that that a group that's struggling more than anybody are in their 20s and 30s. And I just don't know how how that would I person that that's a statistic that is

I'm learning something new every day. So, I mean there's there's sheets we can show you like how many the percentage of people on fixed incomes in this town and it's which I just don't want you to waste your time. You can't lower we wanted to do something years ago and they they said you can't do it. So, you can't lower taxes for a certain group of people. Now, guess we got to look at new funding sources. vets. As far as vets, they have a right that there's some program out there that some of them apply for. Yeah, they get a tax rebate, but that's that's you have to have a certain income in order to qualify for that.

So, here's my s I don't know. Matt keeps tax losing fees or you're sitting too far back and Lorraine is not hearing your mic. When I go to my phone, I don't want people to think I'm texting somebody. Yeah, you got a green light on it. Yeah. Thank you.

You good in the ring? I don't want people think I'm texting somebody. You know, he's texting me telling me uh all right. He said it's good. Let's get back to the budget. What a night. So, after putting a lot of time since our last meeting, I think we had three or four meetings. Uh, Angie's ready to strangle me because she's backed up with stuff. So, we invested the money from Does anybody stop any more questions?

No, I'm good. So my suggestion our investment on the sewer fund is drawing interest and this year it's supposed to draw about one six I think on the I wonder how that should be. Yes. Is it Andy off the top of my head? 1.6. Yes.

Okay. We invested it. We never touch the principle of any of the money that we have. I say we there there's no other way. There's no other income to come into this car. I mean, I think we take that interest, the 1.6 or 1.7 that they're projecting for 26. We take that money and we put that to balance the budget. That'll solve this deficit. But I think we it's only the interest, not the principal. But I think we really need over the next 12 months to follow this budget because like Frank said, if you might get two cops to retire, you may get a street highway guy to retire, but that don't mean you replace them. You need to cut into the one point, what's the seven or eight.

$1.8 million deficit, which is going to be recurring.

It's reoccurring. Yeah. So you you never take onetime revenue to pay a reoccurring expense, which we're not doing, but you do take we could count on interest every year, but we don't know next year that 1 six could be, you know, a million dollars, could be a million, two, could be 800. We don't know. But we do know that we're going to get interest on the money. So I think that's the only way we look there, it's a fixed budget. There's nowhere to cut it. I mean, you got to cut the copier out. You're going to cut, you know, you're talking phones, electric. So, things are in this budget that there's no way to get rid of it. The only way we could save money is through salaries, retirements, and cutting, not replacing people. It's the only way you can survive. If not, 10 years from now, but 20 years from now, you'll you won't have any money left that you saved and everything will be gone. And it's it's really sad. I mean, there's townships that used their principle, you know, send Christmas gifts to people that taxpayers and who was running for office to do different things. I'm saying for this year, I may may have to be next year, but for now, if it goes the way we plan and we do lose some people through attrition, we don't replace them and we try to cut into this $1.8 million deficit. But I don't see anywhere to get income. I mean, I think permits are going to be down this year. We're hoping overtime that's 380,000 in police may go down to 125. You're never going to get rid of overtime. You know what I mean? Can we cut a couple hundred thousand out of that? I don't know. And again, you're going to get once you get involved, you're going to start saying, you may come here 6 months and say we're we're wrong. You may come and say, you know

what, you guys are right. There's no way to to cut this. Uh I don't know. But I know the biggest part of this, like the manager said, is the police budget. And like Greg said, we're spending 50% of our income that goes towards the police. And it's it it can't you say bring two more in, you can't you just can't bring more people in because you can't sustain the cost. It just there's the numbers don't work anymore. Mo was just one just so we're clear.

Well, okay. But I'm saying you can't sustain that income every year. you need to decrease. And like I said, sure, do we want full-timers? Absolutely. I'm the first one that would admit that. But there's a lady that's asking for a tax break. So what do you you know, we tell her, "No, instead of decreasing your tax, we're going to increase them and you're going to your taxes go up. It's just not feasible." So, if council doesn't have a problem with this, I don't think we need to meet again because I don't know what we would meet over unless somebody could find another revenue source and I don't know where it would be. Am I right? Absolutely correct,

Jim. For this year, this is it. I think you have to proceed. I think you have to adopt this preliminary budget so we can advertise it so it's available for public inspection. So it'll be ready for you to adopt at your meeting on December 13th. We have to advertise. So we have to get moving. Does anyone have a problem with that? No, I don't. You okay with that? I think it's probably the appropriate thing to do. I mean I like I said how many meetings we just today she wanted to kill me. I said we got to find money somewhere. It's there's nothing out there.

We don't have a choice. And we talked to our investment firm and they said they're projecting next year that could go south too, right? He said that could turn around. You may not get one,

you know, you may get less. So, we don't know. And we'll bring them in for review this year. They come in every year and talk about investments and so that'll probably be sometime before the summer. So, if we're okay with that, I'm going to authorize I'm going to have council authorize the manager and Angie to finish the budget because we didn't change anything. We left it. Everybody has the same budget as last week. Make them changes. Do a transfer from sewer to general general fund. Change the insurance to pardon me. Change the insurance. Change the insurance. had the the increase.

We got 12% difference go to 20%. We got to add another 8% to a user can authorize. So we need a motion for that. Jim I I would say motion to adopt the discussion advertisement inspection. Right. You want to make Yeah, Mr. President. Yep. Okay.

And authorize adopt this preliminary budget as proposed uh to uh authorize advertising of the preliminary budget for public inspection and uh to prepare the tax ordinances. uh for the December 15th meeting. Okay. So, there's two motions. Great.

Okay. Mr. President, I would like to make a motion to adopt the budget as proposed, to authorize the advertising of the budget for public inspection, and to prepare the tax ordinances for the December 15th meeting. Second by Lorraine. Any questions or comments? I I have one. I just want to thank Ag for all of your hard work and Mr. Dylan as well. You you're a pain in the butt. Angie, you want second one? [laughter] All those in favor?

I before we adjourn, I apologize. Is that enough you want to say anything or you good? I didn't come back to you, so I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Rob, don't let your Okay. Excuse me. One second. I just want to make a quick announcement. I do, too. I'm sorry, Chief. When you're done.

Okay. Um, everybody knows that the tree lighting is coming up this Friday, thanks, the day after Thanksgiving, and then the annual Christmas parade is going to be on Saturday. I watched the uh the weather today. It looks like we're going to have some bad weather coming in tomorrow and Wednesday. Starting tonight, the officers are going to be out on midnight shift putting the slips on the car windshield. So, just to go over a couple road closures. So, if you know anybody that's living on, let's just say from Faraggate Avenue down by the Wawwa all the way through town to Pond Street down all 13 to Mill to Rackcliffe, there's going to be postings. Hopefully, they don't get wet. We're going to do our best to work around the rain. But Friday at 2:00 pm, we will be shutting down Mil Street all the way around to Market Street so that we could set up for the tree lighting. And then Saturday um for the Christmas parade, we will be shutting down Farragate Avenue starting down by uh the Wawwa at Green Lane. let's just say Faraggate at Green Lane around 12:00 and that all the way through the Christmas parade route uh down Farragate the pond like I just said we'll have it posted but if you know somebody that lives in that area or you live in that area just be mindful of postings so that we we can uh avoid towing cars on Friday and Saturday if we can if we can hopefully help it. That's all. I just wanted to go.

The parking lot will be available on Friday night. Correct. The parking lot's available Friday night and all day Saturday. Okay. It's just that route in that little area, that block and a half for Friday night. Greg, we have

And I just wanted to talk about the actual tree lighting itself. Uh myself and a committee of um supportive local people have been uh working hard for the last month in putting this tree lighting event uh together. I want to thank Burough Council because this tree lighting, unique to some in the past, is 100% sponsored by this Burough Council and I think uh I think the people uh uptown are really going to appreciate it cuz it's going to be another fun event. Uh we have the Sugar Plums. Uh it's a a group of three girls who sing Christmas carols. They've won national awards for uh Christmas caroling. They're great. Um it'll be a fun festive familyled event. They'll be dancing by uh some kids that are from the ages of four to uh 12. We'll be doing a little dance um led by Valeria Studios, a person named Emma here, who will be preparing all that. The most important thing, festivities will start at 6:30. So, if you want to see these girls sing who are great, see the kids dance, which is always a lot of fun, that'll start at 6:30. We have tents that are going to be set up that will open up at 6:00. a little bit of food, couple vendors, very small, nothing like Sunday stroll, only about five tents. And then the tree itself will be lit at 710. So if you want to avoid all that and just get there for the tree lighting, which I don't recommend, it's going to be a fun event. That's at 7:10. Everything [snorts] else will happen uh starting 6:00, tents open, 6:30, entertainment begins. 7:10 tree. Will

Santa be there? Santa Claus will absolutely make an appearance. Yes. So two things. Does anybody else have anything? Yeah. All right. I just want to uh thank the Burrow uh garden club for beautifying the four gateways in um in Bristol. Uh they did a wonderful job and also I wanted to just say happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Um and stay safe. Okay, two quick announcements. On November 27th, there will be no leaf pickup Thanksgiving. They'll be picking it up Saturday, November 29th.

But isn't that the day of the break? I think that should be cancelled. They'll be down. They'll be down Palm Street early in the morning. But the rest of town, you got to pick up those. But how you going to get across town? We do it. You can't go up and down the street. You can do it on Monday. I know it's a pain, but but what she's right. How you going to get through? You can't get in and out of the street. If you're going up in streets and Iman [clears throat] or like Lincoln Avenue, you got to go up from pond.

Forgot. Franklin, you got to go up from pond. Darn. You know what I mean? Washington. So, you can't There's no way it's going to work. You're right. Oh, and the last thing, Joe, you and AJ, I want to just bring something up. You can't get around the tree anymore because of them bumpouts. So, the road is basically closed behind the tree on Samuel Cliff, but there's three barricades that block off the road. Now, if you're coming down the parking lot, people think they could come up the hill because you always were able to get around the tree. You can't now. So I told the burough workers today to have a sign says road closed which is fine but the King George has to get deliveries in. So we need to figure a way to put permanent science cuz it's going to be at least 6 weeks right that road closed ahead just local deliveries or something to get to the or just deliveries to the King George. We need to figure something out sooner than later because everybody's trying to make a Uturn now. They come up, they think they can get up the hill, and they can't.

So, they were they were the bumpouts that I really didn't want. I'm off tomorrow. I'll uh I'll go down to Public Works garage, talk to Steve, and see what and maybe go run to somebody and print up a sign, you know, on like Joe said, all this rain's coming. Steve is having signs done. I talked to him this morning. Yeah, we were out there for a meeting at the tree this say early like later part of the morning and he did tell me they were printing signs up. I don't know if it included local deliveries on them signs. So, we should check that tomorrow morning. I talked to him around 8:00 this morning.

Okay. But I just wanted to bring up for the people at home too that they know that road's closed and it's going to be closed until the tree comes in. Also, I know we we we we are cut from the cloth where you don't necessarily thank people for doing their job, but the burrow crew is absolutely going above and beyond the street. Um, and on top of that, they generally over we have left the stage up over the weekend. It's Thanksgiving weekend. We didn't want to have to bring them out if we didn't have to. But this year, they're going to set the stage up and break it down on Friday night at at this, you know, within a couple of hours because there's no way by the tree if we don't do that. So, special thanks to them. They they've been doing a great job already and we just put a little bit more on their plates. So, uh just thanking them in advance.

All right. So, we're all good with the budget. How are we going to handle it? Yes. Are we going to have a good Thanksgiving and we're Oh, our meeting will be the third Monday in December because we can't make different things. It's the 15th. Okay. 15th year. All right. Can I get a motion to adjourn? Lily, second by Maria.