City Council - Regular Meeting

Bye. Thank you. Thank you. © transcript Emily Beynon © transcript Emily Beynon © transcript Emily Beynon Thank you.

26, we're calling the meeting to order at 6.31 p.m. I'm just going to ask something before we get started, and we haven't reviewed this in a while. If you wish to speak on an item tonight that's on the agenda or on oral communications, it's always helpful if you would fill out a speaker slip. You can get those in the lobby or from our city clerk. It just makes it easier because we know how many people are lining up to speak on an item.

All right. Join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Actually, yes, we do need the Pledge of Allegiance. Would you join me in the Pledge of Allegiance, please?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

ALL RIGHT, EVERYONE IS HERE TONIGHT, SO CITY CLERK, COULD WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE?

COUNCILMEMBER DAVIS? HERE. COUNCILMEMBER KEARN? HERE. COUNCILMEMBER LENTZ? HERE. COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL?

HERE.

AND MAYOR MACKIN?

I AM HERE. CITY ATTORNEY ZUTLER, COULD YOU PLEASE REPORT OUT OF THE CLOSED SESSION MEETING EARLIER THIS EVENING AND THE CLOSED SESSION MEETING ON JULY 8th, PLEASE?

Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. In both cases, a closed session was had on the items on the agenda, and in both cases, no reportable action was taken.

All right. Thank you very much. We move on to the adoption of the agenda, and before I ask for a first and second, we have a really, really full agenda tonight, so I ask everyone's cooperation, both the Council and the public, and Normally, we're all wordy, myself included, but I will try to keep everything concise so we can move along. I would like to recommend on the agenda item N, acceptance of the fiscal year 23-24 audit reports. be moved after item Q, which puts it at the end of our, near the end of our evening, in that if we start running really, really, really late, we might have to continue that to another meeting, but the goal being to get through everything that's on this agenda as much as we can. So with that potential amendment, anyone else have any amendments they'd like to make? No, okay. Then can I get a first and second to adopt the agenda?

So moved.

And a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. No one is opposed. All right. July 2026 is Parks and Recreation Month. I see we have some Parks and Recreation people here. And I'm told we have either a video or a slideshow. Do we have a spokesperson for Parks and Rec? Ah, yes. Yes.

All right. Good evening, Mayor Mackin and council members. Thank you so much for your time this evening. I'm honored to be able to accept this proclamation on behalf of Parks and Rec Month. I'd like to take a moment to recognize the incredible staff who make our programs, events, and daily operations possible. We're fortunate to have some of those teammates here tonight, so thank you for joining us. They represent our childcare, seasonal camps, aquatics team, as well as our department support staff. We're also grateful to have some Parks and Recreation Commission with us, so thank you Commissioner Sims for being here. To our team, thank you for your countless hours, energy, expertise, and frontline service to the community. The proclamation tonight reflects your dedication, and we simply couldn't do this work without you. So thank you. I'd also like to take a special note of appreciation to our director, Noreen Lake, who unfortunately couldn't be here with us tonight. We are incredibly fortunate to have her leadership, her dedication, and the example that she sets for all of us. BEFORE WE GO INTO THE VIDEO, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE, YOU'LL SEE SOME PHOTOS AND FOOTAGE CAPTURED BY SOME OF OUR TEAM AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS. WE'RE REALLY APPRECIATIVE OF THOSE WHO HELP TO TELL OUR STORY. SO WITH THAT, WE'RE PLEASED TO SHARE THAT SHORT VIDEO WITH YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE RECOGNITION.

I am joined today with Sue Schechter. So Sue, what is your favorite thing about the city of Brisbane? The pool.

I love doing laps in that pool. I love water aerobics.

I loved it so much I even became a lifeguard this year. Oh my goodness. Every loser, inhibition, celebration, it surrounds us. Every nation, all around us. Singing forever young, singing songs that will keep us young. We all say, when I get older, I will be stronger. They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag. When I get older, I will be stronger. They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag. So wave your flag, now wave your flag, now wave your flag. Give you reason, take you higher. See the champion, take the field now. Unify us, make us feel proud. In the streets our heads are lifting. And we lose our inhibition. Celebration, it surrounds us. Every nation all around us. Sing forever, you know. Singing songs underneath the sun. Let's rejoice in the beautiful game And together at the end of the day, we all sing When I get older, I will be stronger They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag When I get older, I will be stronger They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag So wave your flag, now wave your flag Now wave your flag, now wave your flag Now wave your flag, now wave your flag Now wave your flag When I get older, I will be stronger. They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag. When I get older, I will be stronger.

Today, I am joined with the lovely Meg Chandler.

And Meg, can I ask what your favorite concerts in the park memory is? All the community gets together, and you dance, dance, dance, and everybody's just one giant love fest.

Now wave your flag. Now wave your flag. Now wave your flag. Now wave your flag. Now wave your flag.

Now wave your flag.

Now wave your flag. And everybody will be singing it. And we all will be singing it.

That makes me think, what don't you do? Honestly, nothing there. Some comments. Council Member Kern.

Thank you to our entire Park Recreation staff, to all of our volunteers, and to our commissioners. You make Brisbane a super special place to be, and thank you for all your enthusiasm and everything that you do.

Mayor Pro Tem Davis. Well, I think this is, and I don't know what this says, but this is like maybe the first year I haven't cried watching that movie that you do every year. But I was very close. I did. I think it's just, you know, watching that just perfectly brings together like the feeling of what it is to live in Brisbane. And especially as somebody who grew up here, you see so many elements now that I'm an adult now, but seeing so many elements of my childhood and remembering what it was like to be part of Club Rec or to take swimming lessons at the pool or to go to the day in the park as a child. And thinking about how I'm now going to experience that as a parent through the eyes of my kid who will now have those childhood experiences too. But I feel like they're so much more elevated now. compared to what we had like day in the park back then, but to see where it is now, to see the programs we have at the pool now and all the like the theme days that you guys do and where Yak was when I was a teenager versus where it is now. And that's really a testament to all the work that you guys are doing to our Park and Recreation Commission, to our staff. And I just feel like we have such a top notch program for being such a tiny town, there's always something going on. And that's really what makes Brisbane, one of the things that makes Brisbane such an incredible place to live. I feel so fortunate to call it home. So thank you all for all the work that you do. Council Member O'Connell.

Well, I want to say thank you to all the park and rec staff and the community that brings it together. PARK AND REC REALLY HELPS A COMMUNITY COME TOGETHER AND REALIZE WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO THEM, AND SO IT MAKES IT VERY IMPORTANT, AND THANK YOU.

AND COUNCILMEMBER LENTZ?

YEAH, THANK YOU FOR WANTING TO GIVE BACK TO YOUR COMMUNITY THE WAY THAT YOU DO. YOU KNOW, JUST WATCHING THAT VIDEO, IT WAS JUST ONE MOMENT AFTER ANOTHER THAT SHOWS THAT humans can work out differences and work together and thrive in society. And it was just really beautiful just to see. But it doesn't happen just naturally. You have to work at it. And we've got great staff that put those programs together. And we have great employees who implement those programs and those services. And then we have the community that then embraces it. And that is really special in Brisbane. And that's really cool, Madison, you know, being someone who was born here and now you have a child and that child is now going to be growing up in Brisbane because you put down roots here. And yeah, you know, the cycle just keeps going. And so thank you for being a part of that.

I just want to add that everything that you read today about everyone feeling marginalized and people being very alone, people harboring in their homes, what you do is really important because you bring people together, even when they're maybe a little bit hesitant All these different programs that you have, all different ages, you find ways to have somebody feel comfortable to be part of the community. And that belonging is really, really important. It's an essential function to a healthy community. So I thank you very, very much for all of your work in that regard. I think they deserve another round of applause. Yeah, I know they do.

All right. You will not offend us if you leave.

We move on to oral communications number one. And in oral communications, we welcome speakers providing public comment, but please be advised this is a limited public forum, especially tonight with a huge agenda. It's therefore important for speakers to stay on topic, whether speaking to a particular agenda item or speaking during general public comment. On topic matters are those that are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the city. Speakers, whether during oral communications or on agenda items, will have two minutes. And I've been reminded over and over by the public that we should not allow people to speak twice. And once in a while I fail because I lose track. But I'm going to be very, very aware now that so many people have called it to my attention. Everyone will have one shot at oral communications. COMING UP TO SPEAK. OKAY. SO DO WE HAVE ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WISHING TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON AN ITEM? RIGHT NOW IT'S FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA.

NO, MADAM MAYOR, NO HANDS RAISED.

I JUST READ THAT WHOLE THING AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY. OKAY. MOVING RIGHT ALONG. SO WE MOVE TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR. And we have items C through J tonight. Motion to approve items C through J. I'll second. All in favor?

Aye.

I heard none opposed. First item on our agenda is a public hearing. It's item K, City of Brisbane Local Stormwater Program Fees. Could we have a staff report, please?

Good evening, Madam Mayor, members of the council and public, Miles Brzezina, Public Works Director. I don't have much to add to the report. For the staff report, it speaks for itself. At this point, I would recommend opening up the public hearing to receive any comments, and staff is available to answer any questions.

Okay. Do we have any council questions? Council Member Kern?

Hi, Maz. We briefly spoke on this topic earlier this week, And maybe I understood and maybe I didn't. In the schedule of fees due, there are some properties that were listed as $0. And I think that those were city-owned properties. Is that a true statement?

City-owned or public entity-owned. So County of San Mateo, any public agency-owned parcels.

Got it. Thank you so much. That's all the questions that I have.

Thank you. Okay. Council Member O'Connell?

No questions.

Mayor Pro Tem? No questions. And Council Member Lentz?

No questions.

I have one, and it's very quick. It says the annual charge per parcel is not changed from previous years. How did we do that?

We have not increased the rates for previous years for the local fees. There are other fees that are related to stormwater. The recently approved commercial MPDS fee that was part of the consent calendar. We have not looked at raising those rates in the last several years. If we were to do so, we could consider that in the future. That would be subject to Prop 218. Okay.

Thank you very much. That being said, I will now open the public hearing. Do we have any members of the public wishing to speak on this item?

No hands raised, Madam Mayor.

And I see no hands raised here. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing?

I make a motion.

And a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Anyone opposed? No. Okay. Council discussion. Council Member O'Connell, let's start with you.

I don't really have any discussion on this.

Okay. Okay. Council Member Lentz.

The fees that staff is recommending seem fair, and I'm in favor of them.

Okay. Mayor Pro Tem Davis? Same. And Council Member Kern?

No comments.

Okay. That being said, can I have a motion and a second to adopt resolution imposing charges for funding the local Brisbane stormwater program, authorizing placement of the charges on the 2026-27 county tax roll, and authorizing the county tax collector to collect those charges? Yes.

SO MOVED. SO MOVED.

SO MOVED. SECOND.

SECOND. SECOND. THAT WAS IT. THAT WAS IT.

THAT WAS IT. I'LL HOLD THAT. I'LL HOLD THAT. I'LL HOLD THAT.

I THINK THERE WAS I THINK THERE WAS I THINK THERE WAS THREE PEOPLE CHIMING IN. THREE PEOPLE CHIMING IN.

THREE PEOPLE CHIMING IN. WOW. WOW. WOW. WHO WANTS TO? WHO WANTS TO? WHO WANTS TO?

I THINK FRANK GOT IT. I THINK FRANK GOT IT. I THINK FRANK GOT IT.

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK FRANK DID THAT ONE. I THINK FRANK DID THAT ONE. I THINK FRANK DID THAT ONE.

AND YOU'RE THE SECOND.

AND YOU'RE THE SECOND. AND YOU'RE THE SECOND Next item, item L, imposition of fiscal year 26-27 tax roll charges for the Sierra Point Landscaping and Lighting District. And can we have a staff report, please?

HAPPY TO DO SO, MAZAKAN. THIS IS ANOTHER ANNUAL CHARGE THAT THE CITY HAS UNDERTAKEN OVER SEVERAL YEARS. THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR KAREN KINZER HASN'T DONE IT, ALTHOUGH SHE'S STILL AROUND HELPING ME A LITTLE BIT, SO I APPRECIATE THAT. AS FAR AS THE REPORT GOES, THIS FOLLOWS THE ASSESSMENT DISTRICT ACT, LIGHTING AND LANDSCAPE DISTRICT ASSESSMENT DISTRICT ACT, AND WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING TONIGHT IS AN ASSESSMENT DISTRICT FOR LIGHTING AND LANDSCAPING OUT AT SIERRA POINT AREA. And the funds will allow us to continue maintaining our lighting and landscape district out there, as well as some additional smaller projects. We have some streetlight replacements and some small things in landscaping that we're undertaking as part of these funds. With that, that'll conclude my report, and I will point to the mayor for the script.

Okay. I'm now authorized to read this official statement. This is the time and place set for hearing on the engineer's report and the levy and collection of the proposed assessment for fiscal year 26-27 for the Sierra Point Landscaping and Lighting District. These proceedings were undertaken pursuant to the Landscaping and Lighting Act of 1972. The engineer's report prepared by the engineer of work consists of the proposed improvements, the boundaries of the assessment district, and any zones therein. The proposed diagram, the estimate of cost thereof, and the proposed assessments upon assessable lots and parcels of land within the district. Any one of these items may be the subject of protests or endorsements. You are asked to clearly identify yourself and the property owned by you so that your statements may be correctly recorded. The hearing is declared open and I will ask the city clerk to report on the various notices given in connection with the hearing.

MADAME MAYOR, NOTICES HAVE BEEN MAILED AND POSTED AS REQUIRED BY THE LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING ACT OF 1972. PROOFS OF MAILING AND POSTING ARE ON MY FILE IN THE OFFICE. A COPY OF THE ENGINEER'S REPORT PREPARED BY THE ENGINEER OF WORK WAS FILED IN MY OFFICE ON JUNE 5, 2026, AND HAS BEEN OPEN TO THE PUBLIC INSPECTION SINCE THAT TIME.

OKAY. SO I WILL NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WISHING TO SPEAK?

NO, MADAME MAYOR.

Motion to close the public hearing. And a second?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Hearing none opposed.

I do have a question, though, for staff. Yes. So, Maz, it says that this year's engineer's report maintains the previous year's total assessment amount. So I'm curious about that. I mean, you hear about inflation and costs going up. Why is it the same?

That's a great question. So based on the workload and the amount of staff time out there at Sierra Point area within this district we have a relatively a Relative balance of funds that are remaining so we haven't had to increase the rates I think we can consider looking at that in the future as we would with any other rates And of course that would be subject to any prop 218 process Got it.

So as long as it stays the same you don't have to go before the voters?

Correct.

Do you increase it? And is there a certain amount that if it was $1 or more, you'd have to go before the voters?

Any increase over the previously established Prop 218 voting process would require a Prop 218 vote.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right, I need some advice from city attorney. This is a rather long, this is the imposition of the tax roll charges and also adoption of the proposed resolution. Do you want me to read the entire verbiage related to those two items for approval?

YOU DON'T NEED TO READ THE...

IMPOSITION SECTION? JUST THE ADOPTION?

CORRECT. AND EVEN THERE, I WOULD SAY THE MOTION IS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION. YOU COULD START THERE.

OKAY. So could I have a motion and a second to adopt the proposed resolution addressing objections and ordering the improvements and confirming the diagrams and assessment for fiscal year 26-27 for the Sierra Point Landscaping and Lighting District?

So moved.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Hearing none opposed, motion passes. Next item, item M. M as in Mary. This is to consider a resolution amending the general plan by updating the open space element as required by government code section 65, 565.5 to update the goals, policies, and programs in the element to address access, climate resilience, and other co-benefits of open space rewilding and regional conservation plans coordination. Staff report, please.

YES, THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. TONIGHT, SENIOR PLANNER KEN JOHNSON WILL BE GIVING THE PRESENTATION, AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE IT.

COULD YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOUR MIC CAN BE, YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT HARD TO HEAR.

IS THIS BETTER?

MUCH BETTER.

I'M VERY CLOSE TO IT. OKAY. GOOD EVENING. TONIGHT, SENIOR PLANNER KEN JOHNSON WILL BE GIVING THE PRESENTATION, AND I WOULD ASK THE CITY CLERK TO PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN.

WE DON'T WANT TO MISS ONE WORD.

GREAT. THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU TONIGHT. Brisbane's open space is something that's near and dear to my heart, as I know it is to all of yours as well. I'll keep this presentation fairly brief. It's about 10 or 11 slides, and I know there's a lot on the agenda. But I'll provide a brief background, also why we're updating it at this time, Brisbane's process for the update, and then we'll touch on the contents and a couple of program highlights. So this first slide here that's up is a bit of background. There are seven state mandated elements to a city's general plan. City can also adopt optional elements, which Brisbane has listed there. The focus here is just open space although we did review across all the elements to make sure that there is consistency internally throughout the general plan. Next slide please. So another document that city council is aware of, I know, is the 2001 Open Space Plan. And that plan is essentially an implementation plan. The general plan was adopted in 1994, which included the THE CURRENT OPEN SPACE ELEMENT, AND SO THE 2001 PLAN WAS JUST TO IMPLEMENT THAT. IT INCLUDED A LISTING OF THE DIFFERENT POLICIES AND PROGRAMS THAT IT WAS ADDRESSING AND GOT INTO INVENTORIES, MAPS, STRATEGIES. AND SO WE'RE NOT WORKING TO UPDATE THAT AT THIS TIME, BUT THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A FOLLOW-UP ITEM. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO WHILE WE'RE UPDATING IT AT THIS TIME, SENATE BILL SB 1425 WAS ADOPTED BY THE STATE OR PASSED BY THE STATE IN 2022, AND IT REQUIRES EVERY CITY, COUNTY THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO UPDATE THEIR OPEN SPACE ELEMENT. And that's to address access, climate resilience, other co-benefits, and that's tied to the safety element. Also rewilding opportunities, which is essentially looking at a cohesive network of open space. Next slide, please. So Brisbane's process, we started a little over a year ago with workshops at the Planning Commission followed by Parks and Rec, OSEC, and the IDEA Committee and received feedback. We went back to OSEC another time for additional feedback as well as to the Planning Commission and ultimately went to the Planning Commission for a public hearing. Throughout all that, we had outreach to the community through star articles, also social media. We had a day in the park. information at our planning booth last fall and of course the required notices. We also sent it out to outside agencies and organizations that would have a stake in this element and to date we have no comments that have not already been addressed in the open space element. So next slide please. So the open space element is essentially a policy document, program policy document that sets the direction for the city for future actions. We thought that the 1994 OPEN SPACE ELEMENT WAS WELL THOUGHT OUT AND A LOT OF THOSE PROGRAMS, REALLY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE PROGRAMS WERE CARRIED FORWARD TO THIS DRAFT, ALTHOUGH SOME HAVE BEEN EDITED A LITTLE BIT AND THEN WE'VE ADDED TO THAT AS WELL FOR MORE directly addressing state law. We've also reorganized how those sit and so within the element we've referenced those previous program policy numbers so that they're easy to track. We also put a table together which went to the various commissions and committees to kind of track what the differences were. So we expanded the goals to eight from four, and we've got 70 different policies and programs now in the plan. So next slide, please. And so part of that reorganization was to divide up the element by chapters, as you see here. Not a whole lot more to say on that, but it's essentially to kind of more pointedly follow what state law asks for us to do. Next slide. And this is just a listing of the goals. I'm not gonna go reading through all these. I'm sure you've already done that. And essentially what's in red was what is added, what's in black was existing. Next slide, please. So I mentioned we have 70 different policies and programs. The programs follow and implement those policies and I just wanted to highlight a few here. We've got an annual report to city council as one of the programs that's really carried forward. FROM THE EXISTING PLAN PROGRAMS, BUT MORE CONSOLIDATED IN TERMS OF HOW WE ADDRESS THAT. ALSO TO UPDATE THAT OPEN SPACE PLAN FROM 2001, WE'RE CALLING IT AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN TO BE MORE CLEAR. ALONG WITH THAT, WE WOULD HAVE AN INVENTORY OF MAPS AND TABLES THAT WE WOULD KEEP THAT UPDATED SO IT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THE ELEMENT AT THIS TIME, SO IT CAN BE MORE NIMBLE AND CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN ONE OTHER PROGRAM TO HIGHLIGHT IS THAT We have added this program which is really borrowing from the open space plan from 2001 and what criteria should be considered in evaluation of potential open space. So just wanted to bring that forward and highlight that. Next slide please. So with that, in closing, staff recommends that, per the Planning Commission's recommendation, that City Council adopt the resolution amending the open space element. If you have any questions or comments, I'm happy to take them.

Thank you, Ken. Council questions. Let's start with Mayor Pro Tem Davis. No questions for me, thanks. Council Member O'Connell.

No questions.

Let's see, Council Member Lentz?

No questions.

And Council Member Kern?

Hi there, thank you, great report. Just two questions tonight. I always say that, but it is really two this time. So it says here, program OS6A1, maintain open space and or open areas to account for projected sea level rise. Now I understand that this was added. I think this is an important thing to add. At this point in time, have we taken an inventory and do we know if there's any specific open space parcels that are in danger and we're planning to lose?

So this is something that we would follow up more pointedly with the inventory that we'll be doing and looking at that closer.

I got it. It's part of the inventory. Thank you so much. And then my second question is, it appears that we're a little bit behind and this was due January 1st. Is there any ramifications for us being this far behind? NOT EXPLICITLY IN THE STATUTE. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION.

OKAY. SO I HAVE A COUPLE QUICK ONES. IN TERMS OF THIS PROGRAM AND MONITORING THE INVENTORY AND ACQUISITION, and prioritizing lands that you mentioned in the report for priority conservation or priority preservation, who is responsible for monitoring and performing these particular tasks?

Excellent question, and it's something that what we would like to do is bring forward as part of the implementation plan. Actually, I envision it as a table essentially of both timeframes for the individual programs. AND RESPONSIBLE DEPARTMENTS OR ALSO COMMITTEES THAT MIGHT BE INVOLVED. SO WE WOULD HAVE MORE DETAIL TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT. BUT I THINK OSEC FOR SURE HAS A, YOU KNOW, THAT'S DEFINITELY PART OF THEIR CHARTER IS TO LOOK AT THAT AND ADVISE COUNCIL ON.

Okay, I just want to make sure that when we put something in place that we have follow-through and The other part I found interesting on this and I just want to make sure that I'm reading this correctly about state law Requiring the inventories and it says parcels need not be completely vacant to be included in the inventory Potentially to be acquired for open space so Does this mean both public, meaning the city could designate certain property that we have as public property, either with buildings on it or not, as future open space, and also privately owned, either developed or undeveloped, like Peking and Levinson properties?

Yes, jumping to the last part, I would say Peking and Levinson, those are vacant properties and would definitely be on the list, as well as a number of Brisbane Acres properties that still are not developed. also city sites that are parcels that are vacant, we would list them as well. I think the greater area might be that aren't completely vacant, and what that really means in terms of state law, I wouldn't envision if somebody has developed a property with a Business on it or residents. That's I would not say that's vacant in any I think they're trying to Throw a broad net in the state law and in that Okay All right.

I will now open the public hearing do we have any members of the public wishing to address this item?

No raised hand is madam mayor

Anyone here? Seeing no hands. Can I get a first and second to close the public hearing? So moved. Second. Second from Council Member Kern. All right. Council discussion. Council Member O'Connell.

I just want to thank everyone for their hard work, the OSAC, the planning staff, and the rest of the staff that have worked on this. I think that open space is something that's always been near and dear to our hearts, and we hope that this helps protect it.

All right. Council Member Lentz?

Yeah, I just want to echo that as well. I just want to thank the committees and commissions who worked on this. Updating an element of the general plan is a big deal, and it gives the council then direction to make sound policy. And you guys did a fantastic job with updating it. And so thumbs up. Thank you.

Council Member Kern.

I just want to thank everybody who did the hard work on this. The additions are fantastic and very comprehensive, so well done. Thank you.

And Mayor Pro Tem Davis. Of course, appreciate everyone's hard work. I also want to acknowledge the extensive outreach to all kind of the identified stakeholders beyond Brisbane. I know that's probably quite the undertaking to do, and so this feels very thorough, and I know a lot of this is to help us stay compliant with state law, which is important, so I'm happy to support it.

If I can make one comment. Sure. On page 130 of our packet, there is a copy of the resolution, and it has the incorrect mayor listed.

So that would be an amendment on the approval of the resolution. Thank you. Eagle Eye. It's you. Oh.

The jump in the gun. Yeah.

I would just echo everything my colleagues have said. I think that the open space and acquiring properties has always been a long-term goal in Brisbane, and seeing this memorialized in such great detail, it's gonna make a lot of people happy. If I could give you all a hug, I would. Thank you so much, everybody that worked on this, because it's near and dear to my heart as well. That being said, could I have a motion and second to adopt the resolution amending the general plan by updating the open space element as required by government code section 565.5 to update goals, policies, programs in the element to address access, climate resistance, and other co-benefits of open space rewilding and regional conservation plans coordination with the amendment on the mayor that's listed on the resolution. Correct.

So moved. Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Okay. Aye as well. And no one's opposed. Thank you very much. Next item we have, we're skipping and moving to O. This is consider approval of 2026 Halloween Road Closers. Staff report, please.

Good evening, honorable mayor and city council members. We're on page 423 of 479 of your agenda packet. Thank you. So last April, in the spring, I was before you to talk about the survey responses and The volunteer survey responses as well from the haunt volunteer Halloween road closures of last year as we try to do some earlier planning last year was I think in mid-september that the council approved the road closure so it was a lot of quick turnaround in terms of star articles and door hangers and such. So we thought we'd start the planning a little bit earlier this year. And we had a staff internal meeting to talk more about the survey responses and also what staff saw that evening so as to make recommendations for this year's Halloween road closures. As you may recall, Brisbane police, they were pivotal in having the road closures go very smoothly last year. They had no calls for service during last year's road closures between 6 and 8 p.m. However, with Halloween following, Falling on a Saturday this year. This is not anticipated to be the case. They might be called to incidents outside of Brisbane and would have to leave immediately and so with their assistance largely needed for closing San Bruno Avenue and reopening it as well as there were some instances of cars that left from within the closure area that had to be escorted and out safely along that closed street, that's a lot of manpower. And so the recommendation for this year is that the footprint of the closure area be made slightly smaller with San Bruno remaining open. This might help the situation with the Waymos that I GUESS GOT STUCK ON THAT CLOSED STREET, TOO. SO THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO ONLY INCLUDE THE SIDE STREETS THIS YEAR BETWEEN VISITATION AND SAN BRUNO. THOSE FOUR STREETS BEING MARIPOSA, MONTEREY, MENDESINO, AND KLAMATH. IF ANGEL HAS THE SLIDES, I HAVE THE MAP FROM LAST YEAR AS WELL, AND SO YOU CAN RECALL THE CLOSURE WENT BEYOND SAN BRUNO FOR That first block, Mariposa, Mendocino, and Monterey. On the following slide is the recommendation of just having the pie. Other improvements or staff recommendations for this year include using larger W3 barricades at each of the eight closure points versus W2s. Those were not sufficient and could easily be moved. Those could still be used to close the alleyway or Napa Avenue within the closure area. Also, the survey talked about not having enough lighting in certain intersections. For instance, San Bruno and Monterey and San Bruno and Mendocino. So public works would have temporary lighting at certain intersections where streetlights may be dimmer. Trash was cited, so putting recycling and trash toters at each of the eight closure points would be feasible to keep the streets clear of debris. We have on here communicating with rideshare services as well as food delivery services just to let them know about the alternate routes being needed during the closure period. If San Bruno Avenue were to remain open, it would probably be less of an issue if we couldn't get to every single one and make sure every driver knew that food could still be delivered and dropped off at the closest block. Another item that the volunteers were asking about last year was to have maps for them to hand out to visitors, especially showing where they could park in the overflow areas in town, such as Bank of America Shopping Center, Catholic Church, and those other facilities that made their parking available for us at night. We'd have large posters listing the overflow parking locations at the closure points at the top most and bottom most closure points. So near Klamath and Mariposa. Lastly, we'd engage the Complete Street Safety Committee if they'd like to be interested to further plan and implement the closure. as they have a lot of great ideas, candy donations and things of that sort came through. And I know you have a number of council correspondences that were submitted this week as well. So that is my staff report. If you have any questions or clarifying information I can provide, Commander Garcia is also here as well as Maz Barzoginia from Public Works that can assist.

All right. Thank you, Caroline. Let's start with Council Member Kern. Questions?

I do have a couple of questions. And by the way, the council packet, it's not wasted on me that the map is a kernel of candy corn.

Yes, I need to thank Noah Kelstad put that together. Okay.

It wasn't wasted on me. That's great. My question is not for you, Caroline. It's actually for Maz. So Maz, our utility poles on these streets are topped with LED lights, and I think they're turned down to a certain level due to the dark sky compliance. Is it a big lift to turn those up to make them brighter for this period?

In the short answer, no. although we would be going against the Dark Skies ordinance if we were to do so at these hours.

Okay, thinking on that right now, thank you. My next question is for you, Caroline. Regarding our services notification, this is the Grubhubs, this is the Ubers, all that sort of stuff. Do we have any learnings from last year? And will we be doing anything differently this year in terms of notifying the tech companies?

Well, we didn't do particular outreach to them last year. So I know that one of our corporals has a connection that he can make with, was it CHP or no? Sorry, Mario. But he had... maybe a contact that could help and also I know we can just make a more concerted effort to reach these companies and let them know and maybe we'll have to do some like real time you know event happening at this time six to eight if that's the time for this year again SO WE TRY TO RELY MOSTLY ON OUR SMC ALERT NOTICES AND THINGS OF THAT SORT AND LET THE RESIDENTS KNOW IF YOU'RE MAYBE ORDERING PACKAGES OR THINGS OF THAT SORT TO MAYBE AVOID THOSE TIMES. IT'S WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR.

GREAT. AND BY THE WAY, YOU DID A BANG-UP JOB ON THE SMC ALERT LAST YEAR, SO YOU SET A HIGH BAR FOR THIS YEAR. THANK YOU.

AND I DO WANT TO SAY THAT WE HAVE BELLA VELANTE, WHO IS A BRAND-NEW COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR WHO WILL BE HAPPY TO ASSIST, AND SHE'S HERE IN THE AUDIENCE TO LISTEN TO THE DISCUSSION TONIGHT.

GREAT. THANK YOU. NO MORE QUESTIONS.

ALL RIGHT. WELCOME, BELLA. COUNCILMEMBER LENTZ.

YEAH. CAROLINE, CAN YOU PUT UP THE SLIDE THAT HAD LAST YEAR'S MAP, PLEASE?

YES. ANGEL, IF YOU'RE HEARING THIS, CAN YOU PLEASE HELP TO PUT THE MAP UP, PLEASE? THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. OFFICER GARCIA, COMMANDER GARCIA. THERE WAS A LOT OF GREAT FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE ROADS THAT WERE CLOSED AND IT SEEMED LIKE IT WENT WITHOUT ANY SERIOUS INCIDENT AND IT WAS A HUGE SUCCESS. THERE IS THE CONCERN, THOUGH, BECAUSE HALLOWEEN IS ON A SATURDAY. IF HALLOWEEN WAS NOT ON A SATURDAY, WOULD WE STILL BE GOING WITH THE RECOMMENDATION OR WILL WE STICK WITH LAST YEAR'S MAP?

NEW SPEAKER WE WOULD ACTUALLY STILL RECOMMEND THE SAME FOOTPRINT THAT WE'RE DOING NOW, THE SMALLER FOOTPRINT. WHAT WE DISCOVERED DURING THE CLOSURE WAS WHEN YOU SHUT OFF THAT MAIN ARTERY OF SAN BRUNO vehicles got pushed out to outer streets, Alvarado being one of them. Alvarado became a mini highway. That street is extremely small, people were still walking the roadway, and narrow, sorry, small, narrow, and it became a hazard because vehicles are gonna wanna, go up and down Brisbane either way. Visitation was used, but when we shut down San Bernardino, it actually added another level of complexity that we didn't realize that we did. Vehicles that wanted to leave, let's say from Mendocino, they were leaving towards San Bruno Avenue, and then they would make a left or a right. They could only exit one way. So once they made a right to go up San Bruno, they figured out we can't exit that way. They came back down again, and now you have people in the street. So that street actually complicated the whole, it added, not only kicked over traffic to another street, vehicles that were driving around in the closure zone had that main highway to move in and out, main area to move, so.

Okay, all right, so WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THE NEW MAP IN YOUR INTERPRETATION, OBVIOUSLY, THE CANDY CORN IS THE SAFEST ROUTE FOR TRICK OR TREATERS TO PARTICIPATE WITHOUT COMPETING WITH VEHICLES.

NEW SPEAKER I THINK IT'S A GREAT COMPROMISE TO AT LEAST GIVE STREETS SO THAT TRICK OR TREATERS CAN FREELY MOVE IN THE STREETS WITHOUT USING NARROW SIDEWALKS. SO I THINK IT GIVES ENOUGH FOOTPRINT WHERE SOMEONE CAN GO TRICK OR TREATING WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT CARS. BECAUSE SAN BERNARDO WAS IT BECAME AN ISSUE WITH SAN BERNARDO BEING OPEN.

NEW SPEAKER OKAY. SO I CAN SEE A ZONE such as this being a very safe one. So kids are gonna want to explore other parts of the town to trick-or-treat. Correct. Homes that are, say, on the other side of San Bruno are gonna want kids to come to their homes. So how do we communicate that, like, the rest of the town is still open for business for trick-or-treaters. It isn't just this one area. So then how do we make these other areas safer?

I MEAN, I THINK WITH ADVANCED MESSAGING TO THE COMMUNITY, AND THOSE W3s ARE PRETTY BIG. YOU'RE GOING TO KNOW THAT AFTER THAT POINT, THERE ARE GOING TO BE CARS. PEOPLE WON'T BE IN THE STREET ANYMORE. SO I THINK THAT SHOULD COMMUNICATE ENOUGH TO PARENTS AND KIDS THAT ONCE YOU LEAVE THAT CLOSURE ZONE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TREAT IT LIKE ANY OTHER TRICKET HALLOWEEN THAT WE HAVE IN THE PAST WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A GUARDIAN OR SOMEONE WATCHING YOU OR AT LEAST AID YOU IN TRICKET READING.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. All right, so you're not recommending that there would be folks assisting trick-or-treaters across San Bruno to the other side that is open to traffic?

We can do that as well. I mean, obviously, at each closure point, if we had enough volunteers, just like we did last year, there's two volunteers. One can easily stand by the W3, make sure it doesn't get moved, which it's very hard to move that. And then they can help cross people over. And with added lighting, that brings attention to vehicles going up and down San Bernardino like, okay, there's lighting here, what's going on? And it'll actually grab their attention. Because when it's dark and you don't see anyone, you tend to speed up. So when you have lights and added lighting, you'll tend to stop. Okay.

And then there was a significant amount of folks from outside of Brisbane coming to Trick or Treat, and I think that's great. It's like a street fair. You want people to come and enjoy the town, and this could be one of our great attractions for Brisbane. But having that outside traffic come into a small area like central Brisbane can be difficult. So I'm curious to know what lessons you learned from the last time to persuade non-local traffic from coming into central Brisbane. I mean, obviously, if there's a Grubhub or an Uber, but just people coming to drop off their kid. I mean, I was volunteering on visitation, and there were so many people dropping their kids off in the middle of visitation and trying to find a parking spot up on Humboldt or wherever.

Correct. And that was an offshoot of keeping San Bruno closed or closing it. It shoved everybody to the outer streets and those streets could no longer handle that kind of traffic of either momentarily stopping and dropping people off. Bottlenecks did happen because they would go up visitation and make a U-turn. At least with keeping your major arteries open of San Bruno and visitation, if a vehicle had to come in or came into town, they would not bottleneck. They could easily... they could go straight up San Bruno and keep going or come back around again one way or another versus having them to make a U-turn or find a way to skirt back around. So by keeping San Bruno open and visitation, that was a lesson learned. It gives cars a way to navigate up into the city.

Okay, so I do get that. But it seems to me that if we could persuade drivers from even going up San Bruno for visitation, THAT WOULD BE IN THE CITY'S BEST INTEREST. SO ARE WE DIRECTING PEOPLE TO, SAY, COME INTO THE INDUSTRIAL PARK TO PARK? AND DO WE HAVE ANY OFF-STREET PARKING OPTIONS IN THE INDUSTRIAL PARK THAT OUTSIDERS CAN USE?

WE COULD, I MEAN, DEFINITELY DO THAT. I MEAN, WE CAN HAVE SIGNAGE TO A POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OVERFLOW PARKING AREAS WE RECOMMEND. MAYBE WITH PUBLIC WORK ASSISTANCE WE COULD HAVE MORE SIGNS. if council should decide to really limit it to local traffic only. I've seen points where you can't get through unless you have local traffic only. We can have someone check in just to vet that, hey, are you local traffic versus coming through or not local traffic.

I mean, obviously you wouldn't check someone's ID. You just ask, but it generally discharges people. But if you're suggesting local traffic only and you're having people go to event parking, say in the industrial park, You know, when we do our race, we partner with KTSF. They allow us to use their parking lot. We use the parking lot here at City Hall and then over at the Annex. So that could potentially alleviate a lot of, I think, concerns that parents have of people that are driving in town and they're, you know, they're distracted. Okay, thanks.

Mayor Pro Tem Davis?

This was really helpful. I will say I just feel like maybe the staff report's a little misleading because I was thinking that your perspective from the police department is that it's a Saturday night and therefore there's higher risk to be called out and that's why it would be a struggle to keep the closure so large. Whereas I feel like you added so much more context that TO ME, I WAS LIKE, OKAY, WELL, WE COULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO CLOSE SAN BRUNO WITHOUT YOU, MAYBE. BUT ALL THESE OTHER EXAMPLES OF CARS GETTING THROUGH AND WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE SIDE STREETS, ALL OF THAT I FELT WOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY HELPFUL TO BE IN THE STAFF REPORT, NOT JUST FOR OUR SAKE, BUT FOR THE PUBLIC. SO I'M CURIOUS, LET'S SAY FOR A MINUTE THAT WE ALLOW SAN BRUNO TO BE OPEN WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PERSPECTIVE TAKING OUT THAT IT'S A SATURDAY NIGHT AND YOU MIGHT BE CALLED OUT? I MEAN, LAST TIME WAS A FRIDAY NIGHT. SO IT'S STILL, I DON'T KNOW HOW CALLS COME INTO YOUR DEPARTMENT, BUT I WOULD ASSUME THAT FRIDAY NIGHT MIGHT BE A BUSY NIGHT ALSO. BUT WHAT IF WE CLOSED ALVARADO OFF? BECAUSE AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT IS A SMALL STREET. AND LET'S SAY THE COUNCIL WANTED TO ENTERTAIN A BIGGER FOOTPRINT STILL. IF WE CLOSED OFF ALVARADO, What would you say about that?

That would only leave visitation for a major ingress and you guys up and down.

Well, no, if you left San Bruno open, you're leaving San Bruno open and you're leaving visitation open and you're leaving Alvarado open to connect the two, but past the church, that side of San Bruno, San Bruno or Alvarado to San Francisco on that side. Do you think that would be feasible?

YOU WOULD JUST NEED MORE W3s AND EQUIPMENT AND MORE VOLUNTEERS, YES. IF THAT WAS THE WISH OF THE COUNCIL, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO BRING IN MORE VOLUNTEERS AND AT LEAST HAVE AT EACH CLOSURE POINT, I'M RECOMMENDING TWO PEOPLE. SO WE WOULD HAVE MORE. IT WOULD DOUBLE.

NEW SPEAKER SO HOW BIG OF A FACTOR IN THIS IS, LIKE, THE CONCERN, LIKE, HOW ARE YOU WEIGHING THIS? THE CONCERNS ABOUT the overflow and what that did and the safety issues that that created against also feeling like you may not have enough staff. Like, which would you say is the greater thing you're contending with?

It would be that we would have to have enough staff to do that. The foreclosure as well, but so last year we had a total of four officers. And when the closure we had there, we were spread super thin. We got lucky that nothing happened. We didn't get any major calls of service, but if a call for service that required more than one officer or maybe three officers were needed, we would have been really in the bind.

So is there a way, because I would assume we have to prepare for that might happen. And it could happen with a small footprint or a large footprint. You might get a call. So let's say you're going to start closing things down and you get a call. What's the plan B? Does public works step in to start closing streets? Because we have to set that plan up regardless. Correct.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHEN WE LOOK AT STAFFING OUTSIDE OF OUR CURRENT CITY STAFF. AND I MEAN, I WON'T PUT MY FOOT IN MY MOUTH, BUT IF WE WERE TO GO TO OUTSIDE THIRD-PARTY SERVICES LIKE LAZ PARKING, THEY ARE MORE THAN EQUIPPED TO DO THAT. OTHER CITIES USE THEM FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL. THEY HAVE THE TRAINING, THEY HAVE THE VEHICLES, BUT THAT WOULD BE AT AN ADDED EXTRA COST. WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE LOOK INTO THAT IF WE WOULD EXPAND IT BEYOND THIS FOOTPRINT.

My question is more like in the moment. you have the staff, whatever is appropriate for the closures. And you get a call, now you have to leave. But you're maybe at the point where you're shutting streets down or at the point where you're opening streets up and somebody gets called away. At that point, it's too late to engage with the third party. So would the volunteers manage that? Because the event's happening. The volunteers are stepping in their plan B or is public works stepping in their plan B?

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE PUBLIC WORKS. AND THEY WOULD MANAGE IT. PRIOR TO THIS, FOR THE TWO-HOUR CLOSURE THAT WE DID DO, WHAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T SEE IS THE PRE-PLANNING BEFORE. THERE WAS AN HOUR BRIEFING BEFORE THAT WE BRIEF ON CONTINGENCY PLANS. We have basically an exit plan for everything that we account for. And the initial setup was easily an hour and a half. The initial breakdown was easy an hour and a half. So it took a lot more than the two hours than what everyone saw.

And this is for Caroline. What about reaching out to entities like Google Maps, Apple Maps? Because I think, you know, sometimes, right, you're getting directions somewhere and it's telling you, hey, this street, there's a barricade up here, or it's rerouting you appropriately given a road closure. So how does that work to communicate to them what's happening in central Brisbane?

something we're going to have to look into.

Okay, I just think that should be added to the list of parties that should be all the tech companies we're connecting with. And then this was brought up by Mayor Mackin the last time we got kind of a debriefing on the feedback. But at that time, she mentioned how she felt that it would be really good to have some kind of like 30-minute warning, someone on a loudspeaker or the volunteers Going then through the street and just saying, hey, streets are opening in 30 minutes or streets are now open, even if it is a 15 minute beforehand, just to get people off the streets into the sidewalks and make sure that they are aware. I think on San Bruno. Maybe the street was opening, but there were still people walking in the street, and that might have been dangerous. So do we have any plans for how we're going to communicate the reopening, particularly because that's where you have maybe a safety concern that cars are going to be entering the space and pedestrians might not realize that it's happening then?

ACTUALLY, WE DID DO THAT. THE CLOSURE, WE EXTENDED IT SO THAT WE COULD START WARNING. PRIOR TO OPENING UP THE BARRICADES ON EACH STREET, WE SENT A PATROL CAR DOWN MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT.

OKAY. YOU KNOW, I DO REMEMBER THAT.

WE SWEPT EACH STREET, BUT THAT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO GO BACK IN THE STREET. SO WE CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH, BUT WE DID GO DOWN EACH STREET, MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT, AND THEN WE OPENED IT UP.

OKAY. THE REST OF THE THINGS, THE REST I HAVE IS COMMENTS. SO THANK YOU. THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL.

Council Member O'Connell.

Thank you. I really have one question. I'm very surprised on the fiscal impacts. You have the police overtime and the public works overtime, and the police are way cheaper than public works. How is that possible per hour? Police are $110 an hour, and public works is $140.

Yeah, I had to do some calculations a little bit late in submitting this report, but basically the public works hours last year were much higher. If you recall, the staff report had like 31 hours of overtime because of all the pre-meeting work that happened. And then I was indicated that it would be about 12, but I didn't know the dollar amount. So yeah, it'll probably be a little bit less than 1.6, but not.

I don't follow your rationalization there. I'm talking about the dollar per hour rate for a public works person versus a dollar per hour rate for police department. And if we had 31 hours of public works last time, how are we going to have less this time by two-thirds?

Yeah, I think the last year's number included not just maintenance crew salaries, but also like others that were participating in the meetings. So supervisors, directors, and so that was just divided by the hours. So I didn't like go and I didn't have that information to do like the precise dollars.

So are these numbers correct on what you expect this event to cost us this year?

I THINK THAT THE PUBLIC WORKS NUMBERS WOULD PROBABLY BE A LITTLE BIT LOWER.

NEW SPEAKER I THINK THE HOURLY RATE IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT SO THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS A LITTLE BIT IT'S MORE OF AN ESTIMATE. NUMBER OF HOURS I THINK IS WHAT'S MORE CRITICAL. WHATEVER THE HOURLY RATE IS THAT WE WOULD CHARGE WOULD BE THE STANDARD RATE. But the number of hours is accurate as far as what we were envisioning for the proposed scope for this year.

Okay, so when they said earlier that Public Works has a pre-meeting and figuring out what they're going to be doing, and police does too, so if it's a two-hour closure and you spend an hour setting up and an hour off, that is four hours and if there's only 11 hours that means two and a half people are involved and it seems like this is not telling us what the cost of this event is. This seems like it's not saying what the cost of the event is.

I KNOW THE POLICE OVERTIME IS BRINGING IN TWO OFFICERS TWO HOURS EARLIER AND KEEPING ON TWO OFFICERS TWO HOURS LATER. AND THEN KEEPING ON A TACTICAL COMMANDER OR, YEAH, A LITTLE BIT LONGER TO GET TO 11.

CORRECT. AND ASIDE FROM OUR PATROL OFFICER, WE DID BRING IN OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AS WELL TO HELP WITH TRAFFIC CONTROL.

It just seems these costs look relatively low for the amount of staffing that goes into this event.

Yeah, we're focused more on just overtime costs, but yeah, there's... That's my only comments on this report.

Thank you. Not comments, but questions.

Okay. So I have... SUGGESTION QUESTION. YOU TALKED IN THE REPORT ABOUT CONTACTING DIFFERENT PEOPLE ABOUT THE CLOSURE. UPS, AMAZON, VEDEX, AND THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THAT I HAVE CALLED CALTRANS QUICK MAP AND QUICK MAP SHOWS BOTTLENECKS AND CLOSURES AND IF SOMEBODY IS NOT FROM BRUISBANE, IT MIGHT BE WORTHWHILE, THEY MIGHT USE THAT AS WELL. So I don't know if you had considered those. So it's kind of not a question, but suggested as well.

Adding it to our informational alerts, yeah, to check the Caltrans quick map, that'd be great. Okay. And we did tell people last year, don't schedule your Amazon deliveries to be maybe next day.

Well, sometimes you can't stop it. Right. They just, they give you a range.

MADAM MAYOR, I HAVE TWO EXTRA QUESTIONS, BUT I'M HAPPY TO, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT, I'M HAPPY TO ASK THOSE AFTER. I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW I HAD TWO MORE.

WHY DON'T YOU ASK THE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE YOU MIGHT ASK SOMETHING THAT A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WOULD BE ASKING, AND IT WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION IN ADVANCE.

IS THE RATE CALCULATIONS ASSUMING A SMALLER CLOSURE? SO IF WE HAD A LARGER CLOSURE, WOULD WE BE ASSUMING A HIGHER AMOUNT OF STAFF PAY? Staff cost?

If we had a larger closure, yes, we would try to get more staffing and so the cost would go up. With the footprint now, we could probably reduce that cost.

So the number there is not just a mirror of last year, but it's a recalculation assuming a smaller footprint?

We can probably reduce it even more because of the footprint last year, we had to bring in two officers in from DAY SHIFT AND HANG PEOPLE OVER FROM NIGHT SHIFT OR VICE VERSA. WITH A SMALL FLOOR PRINT WITH W3 CLOSURES AND A CONCENTRATED AREA WHERE WE HAVE TO BASICALLY FOCUS ON, WE CAN PROBABLY BRING IT DOWN SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BRING IN THREE PEOPLE EXTRA. WE CAN MANAGE THAT WITH PATROL AND PROBABLY ANOTHER OFFICER.

And this is maybe a dual question for the two of you, but could we add stop signs? We just added the stop signs on visitation, but could we add temporary stop signs on San Bruno if it's to remain open at every intersection? just something temporary. Like when the lights go out, you know, and they're flashing.

I hear you. Those are on generally signalized intersections. Are you talking about stops in intersections that currently do not have stop signs?

Correct.

I have to take a closer look at that. I think that's better suited to have somebody with traffic control present. I'm just putting out stop signs in intersections that haven't been studied. I have some concerns with that approach.

Okay.

And I have to dovetail off of that, that if you were to put stop signs where someone normally drives five times a week, driver behavior would not be looking for that stop sign. So kind of like when you have construction and they do have a stop sign, they put flag people out there just to make sure that it is obvious to them.

Okay. Mayor Mackin, if we're taking additional questions, may I have a trick question for Maz?

Absolutely.

Okay, this is a trick question, Maz. In the staff report, it says you're going to be ideating on setting up temporary lighting. How is the temporary lighting not in violation of the dark sky ordinance?

The temporary lighting would be... It would be focused downward so it's the construction lane that we have we have a light on a trailer that we can move with the backup generator and those Heads can actually be pointed towards the ground. So that's what we would be doing in this situation.

I knew I wouldn't stump you All right We're going to move to public comment and I do have a slip Sarah milk. Oh

Thank you, Sarah Mills. I think most of you might know me from last year. So I want to say, first of all, I just want to say thank you to the council, the city staff, our police department, you know, our public works, the volunteers and all of the residents that made this happen. It's amazing to see that it's going to happen again. You know, this was our MVP last year. And so now we're just going to continue to improve on it. So what, I have been talking about with a lot of my neighbors and in my community is how wonderful it was last year. That said, we were also surprised to see the smaller footprint this year. So it was really helpful to come and get the context about how much work not only went into it, but the potential safety concerns that were learned from it, which is what we're trying to do every year is improve on it. That said, I think that if we keep it a closer, a smaller footprint, we would lose the spirit that we had last year. Personally, as a parent, the street that gives me the most anxiety is San Bruno. I think it was wonderful that it was open. It also created that spirit of community. But I would really love to see that street, if not opened, heavily manned by crossing guards, or I think it was what you said, Councilman Lentz, potentially opening up to local traffic. When I've driven through the city in San Francisco, I've seen that type of situation where there's barriers in the middle of the road that says it's for local traffic anyway. So I understand we can't put a stop sign yet on San Bruno, but having that kind of safety measures on San Bruno would be greatly appreciated. with a larger footprint, because I just don't want us to lose the spirit and the community that we had last year that made it so special and had everyone talking about it. And then my last comment is, if we just keep it a smaller footprint, I feel like we're going to be excluding people outside of that zone that really got into it last year. And I would love to see that spirit continue this year. So thank you. Thank you.

We have anyone else wishing to speak? Yes, come on up here.

Michelle Salmon, lifelong Brisbane resident. I think I've only missed trick or treating maybe five times in my whole life in Brisbane. I think that we should close Alvarado Street from Mariposa to San Bruno Avenue and also close the tail ends of those streets from San Bruno Avenue to Alvarado, which would prevent, which would mean any traffic going up San Bruno Avenue would only be able to go up or down. They will not be able to turn sideways until they get up to Alvarado where they could cut over and come down visitation. I think that would make it much more safe because traffic would only be going in two ways and it would be much easier to control. It would be five more teams to close off the intersections that you would need to close off that part of the web and Alvarado Street. But you'd still be able to make a turn on that last block of Mariposa close downtown and you'd still be able to go along San Francisco Street and go up to Santa Clara or wherever. And I think that would expand our footprint closer to what we had last year. It would make Alvarado Street much safer, which was very active last year, and it would sort of fit all the needs that we have to have a bigger footprint but still have the main artery part of San Bernardino Avenue open but safer and visitation open but safer. So that's my recommendation, and it really would only increase the volunteers by 10, and I think we could do that. And it will be a lot busier on a Saturday night. Thank you.

And do we have anyone else here that would like to speak? Anyone online?

City Clerk? Jessica Aloft.

Okay. Jessica?

Hi, everybody.

Sorry, I'm in San Diego. Sorry, I can't be there in person. Yeah, I just wanted to thank Jeremy and Caroline and Commander Garcia and his team and all the council who supported this pilot last year. It was a huge success. I heard 99% of the people who I talked to were happy about it. So I think we got like one negative comment that I forwarded to Caroline, but... It was very successful. So thank you for being bold and doing that pilot. And I'm so glad that you're willing to look into continuing it. It's very exciting for me and for a lot of families and people in Brisbane as well. um so yes i like the idea of doing something with san bruno if you don't close it to do something that you all have talked about as far as making it safer so people don't just fly down it like they usually do full of trick-or-treaters um a lot of good ideas were raised here already um also i really like your idea of the off-site parking and directing people to that i think my um Council Member Cliff Lentz brought that up. The lighting is also an issue that you brought up, Frank. That was a really good idea to maybe just increase the lighting that we already have, just turn it up if possible. And I just wanted to say, I'm happy to coordinate volunteers again, or help with that if it's needed. I think it would be great to have volunteers out there. Just keeping the traffic calm. Captain America. And I were at the 5 points all night last year. That's Mike Chandler and 1 thing that I wanted to raise for the. the good of the group is that when the streets reopened at 8, we still had a lot of kids and people and families and strollers and large groups trying to cross the intersection down there, mainly the visitation. But all of them, it got a little chaotic between about 8 and 8.30. So just to flag that when the streets reopen, people aren't done. And all of a sudden, you have cars on those previously closed streets. So I think we need to keep our volunteers on deck till 8 30 if we can and just be aware that um there's that that difficult Zone between like 8 and 8 30 that I just saw a lot of like pedestrian management being needed so just erase that and that's it so thank you for bringing this back all right do we have anyone else here online city clerk no more hands raised metamir all right moving on to Council discussion let's start with Councilmember Lenz

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR. SO WE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY. AND THEY WANTED TO EXPAND THE EVENT SPACE. AND AT FIRST, YOU KNOW, READING THOSE COMMENTS, I AGREED. I think it was a great event last year. Expanding it makes it even, you know, it's a showing of, like, yeah, we really want to make this, we want to grow this event. We want to, you know, make it a, you know, something that identifies Brisbane as a really cool place. But of course, there's also the safety part too. And we want to make sure that we don't put kids in jeopardy. And we also want to be respectful of our town folk too. And so it's just like, okay, you listen to all the feedback. And I appreciate the comments from Commander Garcia and say, okay, well, can we keep San Bruno open? OF COURSE, VISITATION OPEN LIKE LAST YEAR, AND CREATE A SECOND ZONE. I THINK WHEN WE DID THE EVENT LAST YEAR, SAN FRANCISCO WAS OPEN ALONG THE PARK. I GUESS REALLY WHAT I'M KIND OF PUTTING OUT THERE IS FOR COMPLETE STREETS AND SAFETY AND THE COMMITTEE THAT WORKED ON THIS TO know perhaps you know just explores some of the some of the feedback that that will provide and that the community has provided i think you had suggested madison that perhaps there'd be two two zones is that so you okay i just want to just kind of get clarification on that i i think that would be a good idea they were expanding the footprint and you know perhaps if uh parking rec wanted to do an event at the park, we know that that street now is closed too. If that is, you know, I'm just throwing it out there, you know, it could be no or something that they want to explore. This is if you're going to make both sides, you know, car free, that's only adding an extra street. So, but it, you know, then it would reduce your barricades and the amount of volunteers, because you'd have to have it on both sides, I would think, if you were going to keep, you know, San Francisco open as well as Alvarado. So, yeah, so that's where I'm at.

I think...

We need to keep San Bruno open, in my opinion, but I would like to explore ways of expanding. And then just working with property owners in the industrial park, as well as the city properties, to direct traffic, say event parking this way, and not have them come into central Brisbane. Make a really strong effort with that.

Okay. Mayor Pro Tem Davis.

Thank you. Can we see the last year's map again? Actually, it doesn't, yeah, last year's map. Okay, so my thought was you could close Alvarado at San Bruno. THERE AND COME ALL THE WAY DOWN TOWARDS SAN FRANCISCO TO MARIPOSA, BUT THAT SAN FRANCISCO ITSELF WOULD STILL BE OPEN. SO PEOPLE GO DOWN THERE, THAT CAN BE STILL PARKING, PEOPLE CAN MAKE A U, THERE'S KIND OF THAT AREA THAT YOU CAN MAKE A U-TURN THERE, BUT THAT THE BARRICADE WOULD BE AT MARIPOSA. SO JUST KIND OF THAT SIDE. I MEAN, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SAFETY ISSUES NO MATTER WHAT LAYOUT WE CHOOSE. IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST. YOU'RE HAVING A LOT OF PEDESTRIANS AND YOU'RE HAVING VEHICLES AND THEY'RE COMING TOGETHER IN A DARK SITUATION, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE OPEN SAN BRUNO BECAUSE THERE WAS SAFETY ISSUES OF CARS ZOOMING DOWN ALVARADO, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE SAFETY PROBLEMS ON SAN BRUNO ANYWAY. I don't think that this proposal is really a solution that eliminates safety problems. I think you're gonna get it somewhere. But I am sensitive to the fact that there was conditions that were created by pushing CARS ON TWO STREETS THAT ARE NARROW, ESPECIALLY THAT PART OF ALVARADO IS VERY NARROW, AND IT'S DARK. SO, I MEAN, MY PROPOSAL WOULD, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO KEEP IT AS WE DID LAST YEAR. BUT IF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IF THE COUNCIL DOESN'T AGREE AND STAFF FEELS REALLY STRONGLY, THEN MY SECOND CHOICE WOULD BE TO CLOSE OFF THAT PORTION OF ALVARADO THAT I INDICATED. YOU COULD HAVE TWO ZONES. YOU COULD DO THAT ONE SIDE WITHOUT HAVING TO, AND THEN YOU COULD CROSS IN ONE PLACE, AND THEN YOU CAN DO THE OTHER SIDE. SO I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE IDEAL. FRANKLY, I WOULD LIKE THIS TO BE 530 TO 830, AND I KNOW EVERYONE'S SENSITIVE TO COSTS AND THE AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IT TAKES TO PUT THIS TOGETHER. BUT I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE TRICK OR TREATING FOR MUCH LONGER. ALSO THE WORD HAS GONE OUT THAT WE DID THIS LAST YEAR, SO IT MIGHT BRING MORE PEOPLE IN. I THINK THAT THE LARGER BARRICADES ARE GOING TO BE A BIG HELP. I THINK IT'S GOING TO FREE MORE MANPOWER UP AT THOSE AREAS TO HELP WITH CROSSING AND COMMUNICATION. I will say like a smaller footprint is going to increase the financial burden that Halloween is for the people who live in the candy corn. And I live in the candy corn and I spend... Between $300 and $400 on candy from Costco. So I'm getting it like as economical as possible. And I'm still spending that much. So I think a lot of people who don't live in the candy corn don't realize how much money it really takes to do this. and to have it be concentrated, I think is just gonna require those households to spend even more. And I think that it's, one of the comments was that people who lived on the smaller streets that were closed past San Bruno, they just had a blast because they got so many more kids than they normally do. And they were excited to accept more trick-or-treaters. And if you'll recall the year before that, Mendocino to Alvarado, they did a block party. They closed their street off anyway. So those streets to me are really ripe for trick-or-treating, and you can see right down them, unlike Mendocino that kind of curves. So I really think that we should keep a larger footprint. And I know it doesn't make for as nice of a flyer, but we could make it look like a spider web. And we could put spiders on there. So you could still get creative. And... I would love to see if we're going to have San Bruno open, which it sounds like that's where this is going. I do think we need people who are going to be crossing guards. We can give them the see me signs, the see me flags. And then lastly, I'd love to see us monetize this in some way to benefit Spark. And my idea is like what Friends of the Brisbane Library do for the garage sale and you can spend $25 to put your house on the map. As somebody who really participates in Halloween, I would pay $25 to put my house on the map as either giving something special out or having cool decorations. I think there are people who are outside of the closure zone. There was that house that always was that haunted house on Mono, and it's new owners and they're probably not doing that, but there are houses outside of the closure zone that do go all out. Lauren Perez, she's on Monterey. She's outside the closure zone, but she goes all out. Those households might want to put themselves on the map and say, you know, I'm not in the closure, but come visit me. I'm doing something cool. And or other things that we could do, whether it's having a hot dog stand somewhere. This is a great opportunity for us as a city to capitalize on all these people coming in. and offer them something that costs money that can support our Park and Recreation program. So I would just say let's think big on how we can utilize this as a fundraiser if possible to benefit us. And that's it.

Okay.

Council Member Kern.

Thank you so much, Madam Mayor. Jessica Huloff just called in and she had a comment. So I was a street guard or a crossing guard along with Council Member Lentz. And I will tell you, she's 100% accurate. Nobody was ready to go home at 8 p.m. We were told we were going to pull up the barriers and it was over. Well, we thought it was over, but the public, the trick-or-treating public was not ready for it to be over. TO JESSICA'S POINT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE JUST HAVE TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO. COMMANDER GARCIA IS CORRECT. THE POLICE DID A FANTASTIC JOB GOING DOWN THE STREETS, BROADCASTING, GET ON THE SIDEWALKS. IT'S ALL OVER THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. SO THAT DID HAPPEN LAST YEAR. I THINK IT WAS PRETTY SUCCESSFUL. BUT AGAIN, THE PEOPLE WEREN'T READY TO BE DONE JUST YET. I HAVE A MINOR CONCERN ABOUT PEOPLE CROSSING AN OPEN SAN BRUNO AVENUE AND I think we can have more conversation about that. I'm just a little bit concerned that we would have two zones instead of one. My recommendation would be to move further south and close Alvarado between Visitation and San Bruno, extending the fat end of the candy corn and including an additional block on that and leaving San Bruno open and not having people cross and open San Bruno. But that's just my opinion. Thank you.

Okay. Council Member O'Connell, did I get you?

No.

Okay, you're next.

Thank you. So I agree with Council Member Davis that this either should be a community event where we're trying to engage our community or we're trying to make it a broader event where we're bringing people into our community. And that makes it almost like a festival, that kind of thing. The only thing that our people, our citizens that live in those web streets is getting a lot more kids coming through and the pleasure that brings, but also the financial burden of feeding the hungry goblins, so to speak. But I think that it would be good to have some sort of branding to this that does bring in some revenue. If we're bringing outsiders in to partake in the benefits that Brisbane has, there should be some way to... to get that goodwill or monetize our park and rack to help defray some of the costs that go along with making this an event that's publicized. People are coming from outside to come to this event. And I think that if it were just Brisbane for Brisbane. It'd be a lot easier to digest those costs. But when it's Brisbane for everybody else, it makes it more difficult on our police staff and our public work staff and the residents in the web. And yes, everybody likes a good party. And I hung out on Mendocino Street for the entire evening. And by eight o'clock, it was dead. didn't have people coming anymore. The kids had gone further afield. The people with the strollers, the young kids were gone. And the ones that were left roaming, who were in the middle of the street, as they always are on Halloween, whether you close streets or not, they were still roaming a little bit, but not just for candy, they were just into the social aspect of it. They were the tweens and teens and a few adults too. But I can see the point of keeping it small enough for us to manage and keeping it small enough for us to be able to keep it for Brisbane. And as a social event for Brisbane, I'm not sure that we've found a way to really, you know, people aren't really going out for hot dogs. You know, on Halloween night, they're into candy. And although it might work, you know, it's taking a chance on trying to set up another program. You know, if Park and Rec or some other citizens group wants to do that, I think that's great, but I worry about trying to make it too big, and it does leave out the rest of the community, because, I mean, I haven't had trick-or-treaters come to my house because I have stairs for probably seven or 10 years, and does that mean our kids are getting lazier? Probably.

Oh, okay.

So in terms of the cost, Mayor Pro Tem, I've lived on San Bernardino over 25 years, and we've had 600 to 900 kids. It's very expensive. And we're still trying to saturate the same areas. So there were people talk to me after the last event that said, was wonderful. When does the other side of town get to experience this? So I have to consider that as well. But I want to go back to Councilmember Lentz and the conversation with Commander Garcia about locals coming in with cars. Because when this idea was floated and I spoke to Sarah, one of my concerns always about Halloween was tons of people from out of town cruising down San Bruno and visitation and letting kids out in the middle of the street. And I always thought that was extremely dangerous. So the idea of closing the street just seemed great. Having been through the last, which was supposed to be a test, I was horrified. because I saw people almost getting hit because we had the cars coming on the side streets from Alvarado trying to go home and just driving down San Bruno with people in the street in the dark. And it's dark, it's very dark. So that concerned me. I thought about if we had a genuine emergency, a fire, and we've got all these people in the street and our two main arteries closed. I think there's an inherent danger in that that I never, ever had thought of that maybe that's not a great idea or an ambulance. Who's going to clear everybody out of the street? Is it the siren or are they going to think it's like Christmas with the Santa on the fire truck? I think we're still on a test stage. I understand your idea, Mayor Pro Tem, about going over to Alvarado, but then you've got the streets in between still in the web. You'd have to close all of them. That's my suggestion. Okay, because I didn't know if you meant keeping them open. AND AS COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL POINTS OUT, THERE'S ADDITIONAL COSTS. AND I WORRY ABOUT ONE OTHER THING, IS IF YOU KEEP THE IDEA OF HERE'S WHERE IT IS SIMPLE, THESE ARE THE AREAS CLOSED, MAYBE THAT CAN SINK IN. I WOULD SUGGEST MORE WHEN PEOPLE COME, I LIKE THE IDEA OF ASKING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS LOCAL PARKING. IF YOU'RE NOT LOCAL, This is the drop-off area over here. And maybe handing them something that says, these are the street closures, period. So they know. Because they may not know. They're just following everybody else. And when the event closed the last time, there were so many people still in the streets. I had to go out and tell people to get out of the street. Because the cars were coming. And the cars that were coming down the street were angry because they wanted to get home. They were pissed off that things had been closed. And it was horrible to watch. So for all the let's close everything to make it safer, I felt in some ways we created some bad situations. And I don't want to see anybody get hurt. So I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying I think we need to rethink it. I would like to see us stick to the map that's been proposed and see how this works. And we can build on this. But I think also, again, trying to figure out who's local, who isn't, make safe drop-off points. People will always go outside the area that is not blocked off to traffic. They'll go outside of that anyway. They'll still go to Alvarado, they'll still go on the other streets, they'll still go on the other side of visitation. You're not gonna stop them. And by all rights, some people wanna trick or treat on the other streets as well. And something about the closure time, I know the police and people went down the street and said, we're closing. And people just kept walking down the streets. Half an hour after the closure, they were still, either they were having a great time or maybe again, maybe they were from out of town, out of Brisbane, and they didn't know. I don't know. But somehow we need to address that because that was really dangerous. And I think with good crossing facilitation, maybe lights and more people volunteering on visitation in San Bruno, we can make safe crossings even with those streets open because the traffic I don't think is going to, on a Saturday night, the traffic is not that heavy. But that's my feeling on it. So the real question is we have a proposal here to vote on and I heard from Councilmember Lentz and several of my colleagues about altering this, and I don't know how we do that and approve this tonight.

You know, I have a suggestion, Madam Mayor. Please. And so this is great, you know, just hearing all the feedback, and like what you just said, you know, made me think of perhaps an alternative, right? So say we approve the candy corn, right? Mm-hmm. But then we work with the committee, or the committee works with the volunteers, and we promote the other side of visitation. We promote the other side of San Bruno, and that we have the dedicated crosswalkers helping navigate to both sides, the right side of San Bruno visitation the left side of san bruno so that then more homes can participate but that candy corn is without cars and so um i mean i i do like you know having the the park be a safe zone too um i think that was proposed uh last time they were gonna do some kind of event there and that got um neglected or written off. But as you said, we're still in the kind of pilot program.

We're figuring it out.

We're trying to figure it out. So I'm in line with you to make it just the candy corn, but I hope that we can explore encouraging the ability to go to those other parts of central Brisbane. So that, yeah, just putting that back out there.

Council Member Kern, you have comments?

I'm wondering, I'm losing my voice too, by the way. I'm wondering if we can leave at the candy corn for year two and really push Caroline to her absolute limits in doing a marketing campaign for the city of Brisbane that says all of the city of Brisbane is open, but this area is car free. Just a thought. You don't have to comment on that. You've been standing the whole time almost.

And just looking at the design of it, I think it does bode to just more clarity and then safety for those that are going to be out to have that defined area is what... kind of if I were to take my kids out and just like stick to the candy corn, that's it. Or that's what's closed. I think that's kind of a good clear message. But also I saw in the correspondence about expanding the hours of closure and with it being on a Saturday and not having the issue of people coming home from work and trying to get home by six.

THAT'S THE POINT.

IT COULD BE PUSHED UP TO 530. I SAW THAT AS A REQUEST FROM SEVERAL MEMBERS. AND I TALKED WITH BOTH COMMANDER GARCIA AND MOZ ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT OR MAYBE I JUST SPOKE WITH COMMANDER GARCIA ABOUT THIS. BUT IT WOULDN'T add too much to the cost for just that half hour, starting earlier for the younger trick-or-treaters.

Yeah, that's right. You bring up a good point, Caroline. People aren't coming home from work like they were last year. That makes sense. That was a big issue. So starting it earlier, as you suggest, Madison, at 5.30, why not?

Mayor Proto? I said 530 to 830. So I obviously would be in favor of that. But Caroline just said something interesting. I don't know if you caught it, but she said if it was me with my kids, I would tell them to just stick in the candy corn and that's it. And that just, she's not, she doesn't live in Brisbane, but that's what she just said she would do. And I think that's what a lot of parents will do. And I think it really does centralize just the candy corn. I think it increases the burden. I think that it's interesting that our community was so, had such great feedback afterwards. I would say it was a successful pilot. So to now come and just completely rework the layout and then all the feedback we're getting from the parents, who's our target demographic, is saying that they loved the way it was last year and they would prefer it to be that way.

I meant like they would know that that's what's closed. Like they can run around and go around.

But Caroline, you have eyes. If I was here, I wouldn't be looking at the map. Like when you're out, even if you're not from town, you're walking around, you can tell what's open, you can tell what's closed. So just the map saying like that area provides clarity. It was very obvious that the streets, that San Bruno was closed, that the streets beyond San Bruno were closed. So I don't think that, I mean, it makes a nice flyer, but I don't think that it's essential to have it be in that small space. SO I REMAIN STEADFAST IN THINKING THAT IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL LAST YEAR. IF OUR BIGGEST CONCERN IS SAN BRUNO, WE CAN OPEN UP SAN BRUNO. WE CAN HAVE MORE PRESENCE ON SAN BRUNO. I DON'T THINK THAT THE SOLUTION IS TO JUST TAKE ALL THE LITTLE STREETS OUT OF THE EQUATION. PEOPLE WHO LIVED ON THAT STREETS LOVED THAT THEY DID IT. THERE WAS BLOCK, THERE WAS ON MONTEREY, THERE WAS A BLOCK PARTY. THERE WERE HUGE PARTIES. I THINK THAT PEOPLE CAME OUT TO CELEBRATE MORE THAN ANY YEAR IN THE PAST BECAUSE THE STREETS WERE OPEN AND THEY COULD DO THAT. AND WHERE YOU CAN REALLY GET AWAY WITH THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE ON THOSE SMALLER STREETS. SO YOU HAD EXPERIENCES ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN THAT YOU COULD NOT DO ON MENDESINO. SO I THINK THAT'S, THEY WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S TAKING THAT OPPORTUNITY AWAY. AND I THINK IT'S NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE GOTTEN FROM PARENTS OR RESIDENTS WHO REALLY ENJOYED IT. SO I WOULD VOTE NO ON THE CANDY CORN. AND IF I HAD TO VOTE NO, IT'S NOT, I'M NOT VOTING, I WOULDN'T BE VOTING NO ON, YOU KNOW, NOT CLOSING DOWN THE STREETS FOR HALLOWEEN. I WOULD BE VOTING NO BECAUSE I JUST DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S A BIG ENOUGH AREA. SO IF WE, IF STAFF CLEARLY KNOWS WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING HERE, MAYBE WE CAN KICK IT BACK TO COMPLETE STREETS WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO EVALUATE SOME OPTIONS. AND BRING SOMETHING BACK TO US IN SEPTEMBER?

THROUGH THE CHAIR, I WAS GOING TO MAKE THAT EXACT RECOMMENDATION. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE COUNCIL'S GOT SOME DIFFERENT IDEAS TONIGHT. AND WHAT COMPLETE STREETS COMMITTEE WAS ALWAYS GOING TO PLAY AN INSTRUMENTAL ROLE IN THE PLANNING EFFORTS, AND IF THE COUNCIL DOES HAVE A LEVEL OF COMFORT directing the Complete Streets Committee to come up with the safest possible opportunities, but we don't have to necessarily define that tonight. And staff has been very vocal about where it feels comfortable, where it doesn't feel comfortable, and we will work with the Complete Streets Committee and volunteers to come up with a plan that works for everyone. um everything i'm hearing tonight um all of these things can work it's a resource allocation issue as far as i can tell so if we're we've we've come a little earlier we we have three months to find volunteers we have three months to really augment um that support have further conversations with with the with the departments about what support that they can lend um but i think i I THINK THAT THAT COULD PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION AND GETTING INTO REALLY THE MEAT OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE PLANNED FOR THAT EVENT. SO THAT'S JUST A SUGGESTION.

NEW SPEAKER SO I WANTED TO HEAR FROM COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL.

I'm fine trying to explore alternative ways to make this work where it's not such a burden on just the central candy corn streets, but I'm also very perceptive of the issues that the police department have in their time and resources. It's really difficult when we have officers that need to be put on overtime for this event because we don't have extras. And it's the weekend. They want to be with their families too. And so I want to be very respectful of their time and their strategy to make the overtime work. along with Public Works and the rest of the staff and the volunteers. But I'm cautious about trying to expand it, knowing the resources and constrictions on resources.

Okay, and Councilmember Kern, did you, I don't know if I asked you if you had another comment yet.

Yeah, I just, my comment is, We already questioned the fiscal impact. So if we're going to expand the footprint, we can consider that. If we're gonna expand the hours, we should consider that. And those can be the incremental improvements to the pilot, one or the other, and go from there. And then expand on it again next year.

So this last year, this was, I'm sorry to interrupt, but on the fiscal impact, last year the costs were picked up by the city manager's office, not by park and rec. So this wasn't a sanctioned park and rec program, is that correct?

I'm seeing that.

And so that'd be something also to consider, you know, if we're going to be going forward with this and considering it a park and rec kind of thing, then that should be moving forward in further years, considered if that's something that Park and Rec wants to contribute their budget and resources for.

Can I ask a stop question? Okay. COMMANDER GARCIA BROUGHT UP THE, IS IT LAWS, WHAT'S IT CALLED, THAT CONSULTANT? LAZ. SO WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT COMPANY SEVERAL TIMES FOR OTHER ISSUES, PARKING ENFORCEMENT, TWO-HOUR PARKING, SEVERAL THINGS ON VISITATION. I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY JUST KIND OF CHANGED THEIR PRICING MODEL, SO THEY MAY BE SOMEBODY THAT WE WANT TO WORK WITH WITH OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT AS IT PERTAINS TO PARKING AND VISITATION. I'm wondering if it makes sense, if we are going to bring this back in September, if you could explore how much it might cost to, maybe they'll let us do like a one-time pilot of their services, how much it would cost, because it is, that is a solution that we've been talking about utilizing. And I would be curious to see how they performed on this kind of on this trial project that would give us a really good indication of if we would want to use them for something on visitation before we implemented a whole program on visitation, street cleaning, you got to move, we're writing tickets before we're going to commit to something like that. It would be great to know and getting the community all prepared. It would be great to know just how they work boots on the ground. And this would be a good test for them that would give us information that we could utilize for the future and other areas, and it would support, it would help augment, it would support our police department. And it sounds like it's a pretty, I mean, this is a nominal cost, you guys. We're talking about three, $4,000. It's not that crazy in what staff's laid out. And so I would be curious if we could pull them in and maybe we would have to do less overtime from police, which is definitely gonna be more than the cost of this consultant. It could... IT COULD ANSWER A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS.

THROUGH THE CHAIR, YES, VICE MAYOR IS CORRECT. THE CONVERSATIONS, THE INITIAL CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE WITH LAWS, THEY SIMPLY HADN'T SCALED. SO WHAT THEY WERE OFFERING US FROM A PRICE POINT WAS BASED ON THEIR LACK OF SCALE. THEY'VE SCALED AT THIS POINT. SO THEY'RE ABLE TO OFFER, I BELIEVE IT'S $47 AN HOUR FOR SOMEBODY ON SITE. SO WORKING WITH MAWS, WE'RE ALREADY PLANNING TO

Wait a second. Did you just say $7 an hour? 47. Oh, 47. Yes.

Yes.

Okay. I heard seven also. I'm sorry. We can't be paying below minimum wage.

No. No, no. Thank you for asking for the correction. So we're actually planning to utilize them for some data collection on visitation in advance of potentially changing our street sweeping and sort of pre-planning as we move forward on some efforts related to visitation. So I think we're going to get a good taste of how they operate in some ways in the short term. They do seem to be a fairly viable option from a price point perspective, and they do have expertise, as you heard earlier. So we're very happy to explore with them, and that could... that could support a larger footprint as well. That's what the council would like to see.

So I'm going to actually call for a vote on this because it sounds like we actually have different opinions and I didn't get an overall consensus that everybody wants to expand it or go with the recommendation. Commander Garcia brought So I think to give direction to staff and also Complete Streets, I think we need to actually vote on this to see where we stand.

Well, I'll just, if I may, Madam Mayor. Sure. Council Member Davis brought up a good point about that the event was successful last year. And then the feedback that we did receive from the community was to expand. You know, I think...

When you say expand, you mean what?

So that... Expand beyond what we did last year? Yeah, to allow more participation from homeowners. you know, or people who live in central Brisbane to participate with the closure, right? In a sense, to participate in the party, right? Because this area is like the party zone. But there is the issue with San Bruno Avenue. I'm willing to have Complete Streets and Safety look at ESTABLISHING A SECOND ZONE AND WHAT THOSE COSTS WOULD BE. I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT IT SHOULD INCLUDE THE PARK AS A POTENTIAL OPTION, BECAUSE YOU HAVE WHATEVER, IS IT PLACER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? IT CONNECTS WITH MARIPOSA. Plumas. Thank you. Right. So to me, having that having the park is a kind of a safe zone connected to that small section. And, you know, one of the things that you brought up, Madison, that that that did make me think more about this is that party on Mariposa. right, or was it on, or was it Monterey? Monterey, right, and so it was a very short street. They turned it into a party. That wouldn't happen, you know, if we went through with this. And it's like, hmm, okay, I don't want to take that away from those folks. That was really important to them. So it's like, okay, we can do this. It is nominal in the amount of what it would cost. WE'RE GOOD FINANCIALLY. WE CAN HANDLE THIS. SO, BUT LET'S NOT HAVE, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE FOLKS COME INTO CENTRAL BRISBAYNE. WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO MOVE THEM TO AN INDUSTRIAL PARK, WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT. SO THAT'S WHERE I'M AT, MADAM MAYOR.

OKAY. SO COULD WE MAKE A REQUEST THEN, LET'S TRY THIS APPROACH. CAN WE MAKE A REQUEST FOR something to come back to the council in September, plan A, B, or C, because otherwise we're going to be picking apart one plan again. We need plan A, B, or C, or D, even if there's more, and that gives us something solid to vote on next time. Okay? Is that worth it for everybody?

I would suggest that whenever the committee comes back with, that Commander Garcia has his eyes on it before it comes to council.

And associated costs for each one, including staff time and any outside security officers, public works, lighting, whatever we need. All of it. Trash cans, you name it. Because I don't think, as you pointed out, I don't think we have all the costs in here. And I know, Caroline, you're trying to just put together something, but I think we need to look at what it is. All right, we have direction, yes?

Yeah, complete streets, here we come. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, everyone. All right, next item we have is... Item P, this is under new business. We're gonna consider adoption of a resolution submitting to the electors in the November 3rd, 2026 election, a ballot measure to update the city's business license tax by amending sections of Title V, Division I of the Brisbane Municipal Code, directing the city attorney to prepare an impartial analysis and authorizing the filing of arguments in favor of measure. Staff report, please.

GOOD EVENING, MADAM MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS, CAROLINA HUEN, AND I'M JOINED TONIGHT BY ERIC MEYERS FROM HDL WHO CONDUCTED THE BUSINESS LICENSE STUDY AND WITH SAM ZUTLER WHO IS OUR CITY ATTORNEY. SO I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING THE STAFF THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE BUSINESS LICENSE TAX ORDINANCE PROPOSAL. BASED ON DIRECTION AT THE JUNE 18TH COUNCIL MEETING, WE ARE UPDATING THE COUNCIL ON THE RECOMMENDED ORDINANCE AND BALLOT QUESTION FOR THE NOVEMBER ELECTION. SO WE HAVE A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION. BRIEF, VERY BRIEF.

NEW SPEAKER HELLO, ERIC. Thank you for joining us.

Hello. So next page, please. So just to, we wanted to do a quick refresher of where we've been. And we recommended a business license tax restructuring and new methodology. Recommended amendments were made to simplify the methodology. Future proof of the methodology for trending in unknown industries, which was requested by council. We also wanted to remain competitive with neighboring agencies, but one of the areas that we wanted to make sure was to try to get this on to the November 26 ballot. And so with your review of doing the various ordinance pathways, we're here tonight. TO DISCUSS WHAT THE PROCESS WILL BE. NEXT SLIDE. SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE SEVEN CATEGORIES THAT ARE BASED ON EITHER GROCERY SEATS OR HEAD COUNT FOR BUSINESS LICENSE CALCULATION. BUSINESS LICENSE MODEL WILL NOW MAKE IT SIMPLIFY IT SO THAT IT'S A SINGLE GROCERY SEAT AND WE'RE ALSO INTRODUCING THE DEFINITION OF COST OF OPERATIONS. SO THERE WILL BE A SMALL FLAT TAX RATE FOR ALL BUSINESSES OF $50 UP TO $25,000 OF GROCERY SEATS. THEN FOR ANY BUSINESS WITH MORE THAN THAT, THERE WILL BE A RATE ASSIGNED TO THAT OF A DOLLAR PER THOUSAND DOLLARS OF GROCERY SEATS ABOVE 25,000. NEXT SLIDE. WANTED TO MAKE SURE TO HIGHLIGHT WHAT STAYS IN THE ORDINANCE. THERE'S CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT TAX AND SALES TAX OFFSET. THERE ARE VARIOUS SPECIALIZED BUSINESS LICENSE TAX PROGRAMS THAT WERE ALREADY APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND VOTED ON BY THE PUBLIC. THOSE ARE REMAINING IN THE ORDINANCE. AND THEN THE NONPROFITS REMAIN EXEMPT. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE DIDN'T WANT TO CHANGE THESE. AGAIN, THEY WERE ALREADY VOTED ON AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO UNWIND THAT. SO WITH THE NEXT SLIDE IS THE RECOMMENDED BALLOT QUESTION. AND WITH THAT, I WILL FORWARD OR REDIRECT TO OUR LEGAL COUNSEL.

Good evening. So this is the question that we recommend the council authorized to appear on the ballot. Shall the measure updating the city's business license tax by replacing the current tiered structure with a $50 tax for businesses with annual gross receipts of 25,000 or less and $50 per $1 per $1,000 of gross receipts above 25,000 for most other businesses? ESTABLISHING A MINIMUM TAX BASE EQUAL TO THE COST OF OPERATIONS FOR BUSINESSES WHOSE OPERATING COSTS EXCEED GROSS RECEIPTS AND RAISING APPROXIMATELY $1 MILLION ANUALLY UNTIL REPEALED BY THE VOTERS BE ADOPTED. A FEW THINGS. IT IS COMPLIANT WITH ELECTION CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT LIMIT WORD COUNT. THAT REQUIRE IT BE IN THIS STRUCTURE, SHALL THE MEASURE ADOPTING, FILL IN MEASURE, BE ADOPTED, AND INCLUDE SEVERAL ITEMS THAT YOU SEE UP HERE. THE TAX RATE, THE ANTICIPATED AMOUNT, AND THE DURATION OF THE TAX.

Next, is there a next slide?

Okay, next steps. So at this point, I know the council has already given direction on the actual revisions to the ordinance. Tonight's action for the council is the step of placing this on the ballot. So what you have before you is a resolution that includes packed into one resolution all of the actions that the council needs to take to place this measure on the November ballot. So if the council adopts tonight's resolution, the clerk will then submit all of those materials to the county on August 7th. Also on August 7th, arguments in favor and opposition are due to the clerk. That gives the clerk time to review them and submit them to the county. THEN MY IMPARTIAL ANALYSIS IS DUE TO THE CLERK LATER IN AUGUST. ALSO IN AUGUST, THE REBUTTAL ARGUMENTS ARE DUE TO THE CLERK, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THE ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 3rd. IF THE MEASURE PASSES, AS DISCUSSED WITH THE COUNCIL AT THE LAST MEETING, STAFF WILL BRING FORWARD, WE EXPECT IN NOVEMBER, A CLEANUP ORDINANCE which will be an amendment to the same ordinance that will be procedural issues that will make the ordinance easier to administer, more clear, and do not have to go to the voters because they do not increase the rate or the amount of the tax. So we intentionally split this into two measures so as to decrease confusion for the voters. Next. Also in the resolution, perhaps you'll see that there are two blank spots. Those are for the council to direct the appointment of a subcommittee, which is our recommendation for how the council has the argument in favor of the measure drafted. We recommend that you appoint a subcommittee. That subcommittee will draft the argument in favor. They will lodge it in the city clerk's office to avoid Brown Act violations. Other council members who are not on the subcommittee can go review the argument in the city clerk's office, but you cannot make any changes. So you can just review it, and then when you agree to it, your name will also appear on the ballot as a council member. Next. And this is the recommended action to adopt the resolution before you. That's it.

Is that all on the staff report? Yes.

That is all for the staff report, and the rest is for your discussion.

Okay, very good. Council questions? Let's start with Mayor Pro Tem Davis. No questions for me. Okay. Council Member O'Connell?

No questions, but I did want to say that I really... We worked on this in the subcommittee with the mayor. I worked with the mayor, and... when we came to discussing who should write the ballot measure arguments, that typically it would be that subcommittee. But because of the timeframe, I would not be available for several of those days that are critical to when that the rebuttal may be due. So I needed to withdraw from that subcommittee and create another one. And that's one of the reasons that we're creating a separate subcommittee for the arguments and the rebuttal.

Okay. Council Member Kern?

No questions at this time.

And Council Member Lentz?

Yeah, I just have one question, Madam Mayor. So on page 429, the second paragraph, it says the resolution is drafted for the City Council to appoint a subcommittee to prepare the argument in favor and rebuttal So is the rebuttal argument a

Rebuttal to someone who is against absolutely yes, and thank you for raising that yes And it is when the clerk receives any argument against the clerk will forward it to the people who wrote the argument in favor and that same Whoever it is person in the person group organization will have the opportunity to write the rebuttal So if the council selects a subcommittee to write the argument in favor that same subcommittee as councilmember O'Connell pointed out will also write the rebuttal

Thank you for that clarification.

Okay. Let's see. Did I get everybody? Yes, I guess I did. I have actually no questions. So do we have any public comment?

No hands raised, Madam Mayor.

Nothing? Nobody online? Okay. Then council discussion. Let's start with Council Member Lentz.

You know, I'm in favor of moving forward with the ballot measure and I'LL SUPPORT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SERVE WITH YOU, COUNCILMEMBER, I MEAN, MAYOR MCINNIS.

CAN I VOLUNTEER YOU? OKAY. COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL.

I, too, think we should move forward with this. I think it's been many, many, many years since we've updated this tax structure, and I think it's really important to get into the 21st century with this. And I would make a recommendation. I think that I would... nominate Councilmember Davis to be your co-writer.

I'd second that motion.

I think she's very eloquent. She is. And those are my only comments.

Okay.

Mayor Proton? Well, I'm really, I want to just really thank the subcommittee for all the work That went into just exploring this issue. You know, we really have set out over the last couple years to not just cut costs, but also figure out how the city can raise more revenue. And we had some... tough financial years there, but I think we're really, we're really recovering. We're coming out of that. And this is something that will allow the city to be, you know, financially. One of the things that will contribute to the city being hopefully prosperous, financially prosperous because our businesses are, are, the lifeblood, you know, of a lot of our revenue. And so we want to make sure that that stays strong and is really current. And so I think it's just long overdue. And I feel like what you propose is very fair to our businesses and ensures that those businesses that are paying a lot in sales tax are spared, but those that maybe have a large operation who are paying very little in business license tax, that we can capture more from them and they could truly pay their fair share for having, you know, some of these companies have hundreds, I mean, hundreds of employees in town. And so this, I think, strikes a very fair balance. And I would be happy to work with you on that. the ballot measure language in favor.

Okay, Council Member Kern.

I'm in favor of moving forward, thank you.

Okay, I just, I want to acknowledge also HDL, Eric, thank you. Eric was very patient and very informative in the process along with staff and all your hard work. I'd just also like to comment that sometimes When things are going smoothly and we have revenues coming in, we forget that things need to be updated. And it's when the lapse of time goes way too long. And then you institute changes and people go, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. So maybe just throwing an air of caution to the wind, we need to stay on top of these things more frequently. And I think this is a good measure. And one of the things that I really love about it is it includes biotechs. And that has been a challenge all along. It's not that we're trying to single them out. It's that everybody needs to pay a fair share. And I think it was a very fair proposal.

What I think was really good about this exercise in learning about how our business license tax is allocated to different businesses was to get the overview of how you can capture businesses that may not have a product, who may not be making revenue, but still have an impact to the city. And to me, the way we've structured this has really future-proofed It doesn't matter if biotech's the next big thing or retail's the next big thing or anything. They're all treated fairly, and they're all on a level playing field. So it really future-proofs this tax system.

Well said. All right. That being said, then, is there someone eager to give a first and a second? I will make a motion. Yes. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Frank, were you aye? I was aye. All right, thank you. I wanted to make sure. All right, motion passes. Thank you very much. And we move on to item Q. Ooh, this is an interesting one. The discussion of illegal dumping fees. Can we have a staff report, please?

Yes, Madam Mayor, members of the council, thank you very much. First, I want to thank my colleague, Cristina Fernandez, and Angela Barra for preparing this, RESEARCHING AND PREPARING THIS VERY THOROUGH STAFF REPORT. IN THE SPIRIT OF THE TIME TONIGHT, I WANT TO KEEP MY COMMENTS BRIEF. THE STAFF REPORT LAYS OUT HOW THE CITY CURRENTLY RESPONDS TO ILLEGAL DUMPING ISSUES. pages 458, 459, with the table at the bottom of 459, describes how other cities in San Mateo County approach this as well. We wanted to provide you with a range of different ways that communities approach these issues. Finally, what we provide for on page 461 are a couple potential options associated with addressing the issue of illegal dumping. I want to specifically point out number two, which is the creation of an ordinance. This is likely the most comprehensive way to approach this issue. WOULD TAKE A LITTLE BIT LONGER TO IMPLEMENT, BUT GIVEN THAT THE COUNTY OF SAN MATEO HAS HAD SOME SUCCESS WITH THEIR CURRENT ORDINANCE, I WOULD SUGGEST TAKING A HARD LOOK AT THAT OPPORTUNITY. A BIG THANK YOU TO THE VICE MAYOR FOR RECOMMENDING THAT THIS ITEM BE PLACED ON THE AGENDA. WE THINK IT IS VERY TIMELY, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. THANK YOU.

Councilmember questions. Let's start with Councilmember Kern.

I'm pulling up my questions right now. Okay, so I was doing a little bit of research on this and It appears that if a landlord, a private property owner, has property and someone dumps illegally on that person's property, that they're responsible for the cleanup. And so this is in San Mateo County, within a certain X number of days before the fine is levied against the private property owner. Is that true?

So San Mateo County's ordinance currently states that if a property owner can be held liable for that, such that if they have a tenant who's moved out and has just sort of left stuff on the sidewalk, the property owner has, I believe, let's see, I want to say it was maybe a few days to abate that and or clean that up. And if not, then they would be then fined. And if it's a major dumping sort of issue, they could be fined.

I WANT TO SAY $3,000 PER ITEM.

SO VERY LARGE ITEMS, LET'S SAY IT'S LIKE A HUGE DRESSER OR A HUGE MATTRESS, IF THAT SORT OF MEETS THE CRITERIA THAT'S DEFINED IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WE MAY WRITE, WE COULD POTENTIALLY FIND THEM PER ITEM.

I'm not trying to ask trick questions, I'm just trying to understand. No, understood. So if someone, if we have a vacant building, let's call it in Crocker Park, let's say someone vacates the building, they were a renter, it's a Prologis property, I'm just creating a scenario here, and someone drives onto that property in the middle of the night, let's say it's a fairly large like pie truck of some sort, and they unload a bunch of junk. Could be a combination of washers, dryers, mattresses, furniture, whatever it is. Prologis is then responsible for cleaning that up. Is that what I'm hearing?

SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF IT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY, THEN YES. IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH ILLEGAL DUMPING IN OTHER CITIES, I'VE SEEN IT WHERE PROPERTY OWNERS AND OR OTHERS HAVE MOVED ITEMS THAT MAY BE ON THEIR PROPERTY TO THE CITY'S RIGHT-OF-WAY SUCH THAT THE CITY WOULD THEN HAVE TO CLEAN UP THE ITEMS. I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN SUCH THAT THEN THE CITY'S RESPONSE TO THAT WOULD BE INSTALLING POTENTIALLY CAMERAS TO KIND OF CATCH BAD ACTORS. THERE'S BEEN SOME SUCCESS WITH THAT, BUT NOT 100% SUCCESS BECAUSE THEN, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE'S CAMERAS THERE, IT THEN JUST GETS MOVED TO ANOTHER HOT SPOT, RIGHT? SO THAT ALSO HAPPENS.

GOT IT. I THINK THE STAFF REPORT WAS REALLY WELL DONE, SO THANK YOU FOR PUTTING ALL THE RESEARCH AND DOING ALL THE BENCHMARKING IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER CITIES IN THE COUNTY. I APPRECIATE IT.

OH, A HUGE THANKS TO ANGEL. SHE DID A LOT OF THAT WORK.

WELL DONE, ANGEL. THANK YOU.

Council Member Lentz.

Yeah. Thank you, Christina, and thank you, Angel, wherever you are. So when I was reading this, it made me think, okay, what is the definition of illegal dumping?

What does that mean?

You know, people put things out on the street to give away for free. I mean, you talked about, like, a dresser. People put a dresser out. I mean, like... I guess there's a time period when that dresser's got to go to the dumps or has got to get picked up or go to the Salvation Army?

Yeah, typically there's a time constraint associated with a lot of that. And, you know, a lot of it is complaint-based, such that, you know, maybe your neighbor's had a dresser out, you know, out there for a while and it hasn't gotten picked up. And, you know, then they'd probably, you know, send something to code enforcement saying, hey, this dresser's been here for a few days and... no one's taking it type of thing. So I'm sure there are associated, you know, sort of time constraints associated with items that are left in outside.

So that we would have something like that then? I mean, you know, I'm bringing it up, you know, our daughter, her boyfriend, they're getting all this free stuff. That's how they're furnishing their place. And they found a bed and apparently it had been out on the street for 27 days but it was still in really good shape not a mattress not a mattress four post bed and so i mean yeah and you're just trying to you know if we move forward with something i just hope that we have like some clear language that yes defines absolutely you know there's also you know people will you know, rent out a picnic site at the park. And you might have 50 people for one picnic site, and there's one garbage can. And when they leave, they filled up the garbage can, but there's all this other stuff. Now, would that be considered illegal dumping?

Yeah, there's definitely a difference, I believe, between, you know, littering. There are definitions around littering, and then there are definitions around illegal dumping. So those are sort of two separate things. AND THERE IS SORT OF A FINE LINE BETWEEN THE TWO. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DEFINITELY, I'VE DEFINITELY SEEN ORDINANCES RELATED TO SORT OF ILLEGAL DUMPING SUCH THAT THEY ARE EGREGIOUS, THEY ARE, LIKE, HUGE ITEMS THAT ARE SORT OF LEFT OUT, AS OPPOSED TO SOMEONE MAYBE LEAVING A SODA CAN IN THE STREET, RIGHT? THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS.

YEAH, I KNOW, DEFINITELY. I MEAN, YEAH. THE SODA CAN. WELL, YOU KNOW. BUT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO LEAVE, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL BAGS OF GARBAGE AFTER THEIR EVENT. You know, I mean, granted, I guess they're in a bag and we'll come by and pick up the garbage that's in the can and just take their stuff as well. Okay. And then do we have particular areas in Brisbane that are notorious for illegal dumping? Okay.

Yes, so huge thanks to Moz and Public Works. They did provide us with some data. It does look like Tunnel Avenue and Lagoon Way, Beattie Avenue and Alana Way, Fisherman's Park, and there are other public rights of way that are street.

Yeah, and so I saw that in the staff report. So what would be your recommendations to, are you recommending like there should be cameras there, there should be signs that

Indicate the the amount of the fines Yeah, I think right now the conversation is really around, you know policy wise Do you want a standalone sort of ordinance to kind of deal with? Sort of a comprehensive program that kind of lays out, you know, these are the fines these this is what we consider to be sort of a major offense or an egregious offense and This is what we consider to be sort of commercial dumping, you know, those sort of unsanctioned haulers that may just leave stuff on the side of the road. So, you know, we're really looking for direction in terms of if you want us to sort of do this comprehensive ordinance as opposed to maybe just, you know, increasing the fines within our existing citation structure. I think staff is fine either way, but it's really a policy decision that all of you would have to make.

Okay, thank you.

Let's see. How about Councilmember O'Connell?

I don't have any questions for staff. I really enjoyed reading this report because it gives you lots of options, and I think that if we are to move forward, that would be best off doing an ordinance so that we really can make it have teeth compared to going with the state-recommendated, but we will... I'LL SAVE THAT FOR COMMENTS.

OKAY. AND MAYOR PROTEAU? SO I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM, FOLLOWING UP ON FRANK'S QUESTION, OR COUNCILMEMBER KERN'S QUESTION. SO IF IT IS A PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER, DO YOU ALERT THEM, LIKE, WE SEE THIS, AND YOU GIVE THEM A TIME TO RECTIFY, AND THEN ONLY AFTER THAT, THEN?

TYPICALLY, YOU'D GIVE THEM SOME TIME TO ABATE AND CLEAN UP THE MESS AND OR CALL SCAVENGERS TO COME CLEAN IT UP. AND IF THEY DON'T, THEN YOU WOULD THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HIRE, YOU KNOW, SCAVENGERS OR WHOEVER, PUBLIC WORKS, TO GO OUT THERE AND CLEAN IT UP, AND THEN YOU WOULD THEN, I'VE SEEN IT WHERE YOU COULD PUT A LEAN ON THE PROPERTY AND SAY, HEY, YOU GUYS, WE'RE CHARGING YOU FOR THIS.

Like weed abatement.

Right. Exactly. Similar.

Same kind of structure. And I think as it pertains to like – TRASH IN THE PARK, THAT WAS A PERVASIVE PROBLEM, AND I THINK THAT WE ADJUSTED THE RENTAL AGREEMENT WHERE IF THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TRASH LEFT THAT YOU WOULD BE CHARGED, YOU WOULDN'T GET A DEPOSIT BACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE THAT ADDRESSES THAT SPECIFIC PROBLEM, BUT STAFF CAN CHIME IN IF THAT'S INCORRECT.

THEY HAVE TO TAKE A PHOTO AND SUBMIT A PHOTO.

YEAH, OKAY, PHOTO. THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT A PHOTO OF IT BEING CLEAN. I have more just discussion, so.

Yeah.

So I have two questions. Nearby apartment building, apartments are always victim to people who want to dump. And so I watch for the apartment owner because I can see the area with trash cans and a debris box. The apartment owner installed a camera And I watched someone come three days in a row and brought tons of stuff out of an SUV. And there was a license plate on the camera, very clearly. So my question is, if, this is dovetailing off of Council Member Kern, if a private property owner has a camera, or let's say they witness it, or they have some other residents witness it, can they then turn that over to be cited by the city, or does that have to be done just by the city finding this, investigating? Because it's very, my heart goes out to someone when you're constantly picking up other people's trash. And apartment owners are just, it's like an easy target. And in the case of the apartment owner, it was a San Francisco resident in a very fancy SUV, and you wonder, you really couldn't afford a dump fee, so you just kept driving to Brisbane to dump in an apartment, and why there? Well, because it was handy. IT DEFIES THE IMAGINATION.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WITH CAMERAS, YOU COULD DEFINITELY BEGIN A CONVERSATION OR BEGIN SORT OF AN INVESTIGATION BASED ON WHAT YOU SEE IN THE CAMERA, WHETHER THAT'S EVIDENCE. I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S MORE OF A LEGAL QUESTION. That being said, I will say that the county's ordinance does specify that if you are the owner of a vehicle and they spot you dumping, you could potentially be held liable as the owner of the vehicle that was used in illegal dumping. So it appears that the county has gone that route.

Okay, and I'll give you the end of the story. In Brisbane, the police went after the Scofflaw and they cited him. Okay. So my second question is quicker. you put two different options higher administrative citation penalties and the other is an ordinance and I wondered if you could in fact do both and the distinction would be commercial dumping or I don't know how you would what you would define it as major dumping versus minor because I think there should be a distinction between someone that maybe doesn't have money and dumps a bag of garbage on the sidewalk versus someone dumping a mattress or a bunch of construction debris. And it seems $1,000 for someone that's honestly poor and can't pay their rent to get $1,000 fine versus someone dumping massive amounts and quantities of things. So could you in fact, legal question and staff question, do both?

YES.

OH, I LIKE THAT. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, PUBLIC COMMENTS. ANYONE? ONLINE? IN PERSON? NO HANDS RAISED. ANYONE BRAVE? NO? NO.

OKAY. I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP BY VIEWERS. GO AHEAD. SO I HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT OFTENTIMES with the things that get dumped in Brisbane, our staff, our public work staff will go through to see the contents. So you want to make sure there's nothing hazardous that's got to be disposed of in this particular way. But sometimes there's mail that's found that has the address associated with that party. Sometimes they're from Brisbane. A lot of times they're not. And at Madhouse, We find people's mail dumped in our dumpster. And it seems like it's tricky to, you know, my mom once asked, I found someone's trash and it has their address. And she asked the police, can I just go drop it back off on their front steps at their house and tell them to take your trash back? And then I think the response from the police was like, oh, no, you're now dumping on their property. So I just wonder, and maybe this is, I don't know if this is legal or if this is really a question for our police department, but I just wonder how easy or difficult it is if you had a great answer about someone's license plate, but what about someone's mail? And how are you holding people accountable if... It seems like it's coming from them. But no, you haven't witnessed them or caught them on camera. You're just looking at what's left at the scene and they're affiliated somehow. So I don't know if anyone has a response to... Could you find somebody? Because... Or would you have to call and ask, you know, I think like with a hit and run, oftentimes you have to have proof. But sometimes the police calling and saying, did you hit somebody here? And they respond, yes, that's kind of all you need. So I just don't know if there's any clarification around like mail.

Yeah, I think again with mail, I mean, obviously not an attorney or a police officer, but I would think it would sort of start the conversation with PD starting sort of their investigation and going to, you know, chatting with those folks, right? And saying like, hey, you know, did you, why is your mail in this person's garbage can or what have you? AND THEN GO FROM THERE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH TO SORT OF CHARGE THEM WITH SOMETHING, BUT IT COULD DEFINITELY START SORT OF THAT INVESTIGATION.

NEW SPEAKER IF I MAY ADD, IN CASES OF ILLEGAL DUMPING IN PUBLIC SPACES WHEN STAFF ARE PICKING IT UP AND ARE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING THAT IDENTIFIES THE PARTY THAT'S RESPONSIBLE, THEY DO REPORT THAT TO PD AND WE DO OPEN UP WE DO TRY TO GO AFTER COST RECOVERY IN THOSE CASES. That's for public spaces, obviously, but I just wanted to share that.

Thank you. Okay. Council discussion. Me. Oh, you are me. You were first on my list anyway. Go ahead.

I think one of the questions that Councilmember Davis had sort of came up when we talked about the cameras in the park and whether as a crime deterrent seeing someone doing a crime in the park would allow the police officer to make an arrest. And he said it would open the conversation. Again, as our assistant city manager said, it opens the conversation and it gets it a lot further along in the conversation as far as going ahead and being able to charge someone. So I think that that's pretty obvious that it helps. As far as discussion goes, I think that we're starting to ask some of the questions that would come up when we get an ordinance written as far as what timeframes would be and what constitutes a major or a minor dumping offense. And I did notice that in the staff report some commercial offense can have a bigger fine than a private person dumping. And so that might take into account some of your concerns about a poor person who has nowhere else to put their mattress versus the contractor who's charging the customer to dump their construction debris, but really does it out on Tunnel Avenue instead of taking it to the dump. And so I think that when we look at direction, I would prefer that we go with an ordinance so that we can get the maximum fines. And it's out there that we're different. You don't dump in Brisbane because we are a target. We have a lot of open space roads. that are on the way to the dump or even a well-intentioned person might decide it's way easier to pull over on the side of the road than actually go into the dump. So I would think that we should, I would prefer we give direction to staff to come up with an ordinance I would say we do the high fines. We take advantage of having sensitive habitat. So if somebody's driving over Guadalupe and they're dumping their garbage there, I mean, that's a lot harder to clean up than if they dumped it in the center of downtown. And it has more impact and it sits there longer and can affect wildlife. So I think that... I would like to give direction to staff to create an ordinance that has as much teeth in it as possible, has increased dumping for commercial enterprises compared to private, and has the sensitive habitat clause put into it.

May I ask a question before we go on then? Because if we're going by the counties, it doesn't show anything like our administrative citation. It's just very large fines. So it sounds like you're suggesting that we build in criteria that identify small waste disposal versus large generation. Is that... That's why I suggested doing higher administrative citations for small dumping versus, well, let's say littering. Littering. Small is littering under citation, but we increase the fines. or the citation penalties, and then the illegal dumping is really fines for dumping, per se, being large. Large objects and large quantity. Does that make sense?

You know, it could be two big plastic bags, and I still think that's dumping.

Well, but is that $1,000?

Yeah, I think it is. You're driving over Guadalupe Canyon and you throw your garbage out? Yeah.

Okay.

It's cheaper to go to the dump.

I just think you're going to have some residents, and I don't like it, but I think $1,000 first violation for one bag of garbage if they can't pay their rent.

I wasn't even suggesting any of the fines on these pages. I think it should come back from staff on what is appropriate. But I think that... We should, you know, if you're dumping out on Guadalupe, you know, you intentionally went out there to dump.

Absolutely, yes.

If you're dumping, you know, into the bay, if you're a commercial enterprise and that's how you get rid of your client stuff, I mean, all those things, I'm sorry, throw the book at them.

Right. Okay. All right. Council Member Lentz?

Yeah, you know, just kind of picking up on where you're coming from, Terry and Colleen. So the San Mateo County ordinance, right? So I'm trying to get some clarification here because when I read, you know, the option to, you know, it talks about if they failed to remove the waste within 24 hours, they are cited with administrative penalty of $3,000. And then it goes on to say that, say, The dumping of both a mattress and an appliance would constitute two separate major violations subject to penalties of $3,000 per item. But then when you go to the chart that's on page 459, it goes San Mateo County Incorporated says first violation is $100. Second one is $100 to $500. Third violation is up to $500. And then this maximum penalty is, so, you know, just trying to, UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, AND THEN KIND OF GETTING TO WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, MIRMACK, AND IS THERE SHOULD BE SOME BALANCE HERE, AND WHAT IS WHERE YOU THROW THE BOOK AT THEM?

YEAH, AND I'LL SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DECIDE THOSE DEFINITIONS TONIGHT. WE AS STAFF CAN, YOU KNOW, DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE AND DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH, PROVIDE YOU WITH SORT OF MORE CLEAR DEFINITIONS AROUND WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE SORT OF A MAJOR DUMPING VIOLATION VERSUS SORT OF SMALLER OFFENSES, AND THEN WE CAN DEFINITELY BRING THAT BACK. I BELIEVE THAT THE CHART IS MAYBE A LITTLE MISLEADING SUCH THAT THE COUNTY, WHAT'S BASICALLY IN THE PARAGRAPH IS ESSENTIALLY FOR SORT OF MAJOR VIOLATIONS, RIGHT, LIKE AN IS A MAJOR VIOLATION, A MATTRESS IS A MAJOR VIOLATION, AS OPPOSED TO MAYBE A BAG OF GARBAGE, AND I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE THERE. SO WE AS STAFF CAN DEFINITELY COME BACK TO YOU ALL WITH SORT OF OPTIONS AND PROVIDE THAT AT ANOTHER MEETING, AND YOU ALL CAN LET US KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO VOTE ON.

JUST AS A SUGGESTION, YOU KNOW, When the county adopted a plastic ban ordinance, you know, or the secondhand smoke, they did all the legwork and then the cities took their ordinance and then we just changed the name. You know, perhaps if it's the pleasure of the council, maybe getting the county's ordinance in place YOU KNOW, THEN IT'S ALREADY KIND OF BUILT IN, AND THEN FROM THERE WE COULD EDIT, AND THAT MIGHT MAKE IT EASIER INSTEAD OF HAVING STAFF JUST KIND OF CREATE, OKAY, YOU CAN DO THIS OPTION, YOU CAN DO THIS ONE HERE, THAT'S A LOT OF TIME. HERE'S THIS ONE ORDINANCE THAT MAYBE SOUNDS LIKE IT MIGHT FIT WHAT YOU'RE ALL LOOKING FOR. and then end on that.

If I may ask one other question. So in thinking about, again, let's say someone can't pay their rent, but they're dumping garbage every week. And part of me just, I want to throw the book at them because it's like not in my front yard, not in my business, whatever. If they can't pay the fine, let's say it's $1,000 or $3,000, do we have community service where they have to work it off? because that would be also, in my opinion, a deterrent. They don't just say, I can't pay it.

Perhaps for a homeowner or a private citizen, certainly not for businesses.

No, not for a business, but for an individual.

Again, I think that everything that we put in an ordinance and everything we do with enforcement is subject to, you want to have the maximum available to you. And then you can always say, okay, he dropped his business. leftover mcdonald's bag on the street instead of getting out and putting it in the garbage can but that's littering that's littering right you know so there are things and there's a california law as well councilmember frank and i would love to weigh in okay next mayor prota

Go, you go.

Oh, okay. Well, first of all, I just really want to thank staff, and I want to thank you guys for even entertaining this because this is something that I brought forward. And I just, you know, I happen to know a lot about this, given my spouse. And I would say that, I mean, he deals with this issue nearly every day in Brisbane. And it's so much more severe than what you even think. I get that you're sensitive to a large fine, but you have to remember that the likelihood that we are even going to be able to implement a fine and catch somebody is very small. So the $1,000 you might charge for a first offense, for every one that you catch, there's probably 10 or 20 that you don't. And we are still responsible for the staff time and the costs of getting rid of that material appropriately. So I think it just kind of barely caught, covers likely our baseline cost. Um, and you just not going to throw, you're just not throwing a mattress out of your, out of your, um, out of your truck bed on accident. So to me, like it's one thing if you have a really crazy parking fine, cause that could easily be a mistake. Like you didn't read a sign and you parked in two hour parking and you know, you get a, a ticket for a hundred dollars, um, our parking tickets are like $100. And I see how that could be an accident. But if you are throwing something on the street, you know what you're doing. And I think the cost to take a load to the dump is like $160. So it has to be way more expensive than the cost of the dump fees. Because as Emmett Cunningham said when he came before, If you just run, like, the probability on it, if you dumped five times and you were caught once, well, you're still coming out ahead because you paid $100 fine, but you avoided four dumping fees at the dump. So... I just think that we should make it as expensive as possible. I think the state law framework, actually, it's already there more than whatever San Mateo County is doing. First offense, I would say $1,000. Second offense, $1,500. Third offense, $3,000, as high as those can go. And those are general law cities. And then the commercial quantities, a minimum of $1,000 to $3,000, up to $10,000 to $15,000 for repeat business offenses. Hazardous waste or sensitive habitat impacts include civil settlements of up to $28,000. So to me, it's all packaged right there, ready to go. There's not a lot of adjustments that need to be made. There are several, obviously, hotspots. throughout town, but there's also some around apartment buildings. I've seen couches on the corner of Thomas and San Bruno several times. We have to go out there. It also, it really opens our staff up to workplace injuries. I can tell you how many times my spouse has, like, had to pick up an oven or a wet mattress. All those things. Anytime somebody dumps something of a large quantity, even small, you know, there are – just clothes they get really heavy there's all kinds of items that just because it's in dirt people just put dirt in garbage bags and throw them out so just because it's a garbage bag doesn't mean it's not extremely heavy and the picking and the throwing that into the truck that to me is one of the things that our public works department does that's like ripe for a workplace injury so I WOULD SAY THROW THE BOOK AT THEM. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. YOU KNOW WHAT, IT TAKES A COUPLE OF TIMES. IT'S LIKE A COUPLE OF TIMES GETTING A FINE OF THAT MAGNITUDE AND PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR CHANGES REAL QUICK AND THE WORD GETS OUT. SO THAT WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION.

SO MAY I JUST CLARIFY, ARE YOU SAYING THE STATE LAW FRAMEWORK OF 1,000, 3,000, AND UP TO 10,000? BECAUSE THAT'S ON THE FIRST PAGE, 457.

First offense, 1,000. Second offense, 1,500. Third offense, 3,000. And then for commercial quantities, this whole paragraph.

And build it into an ordinance.

Yeah. Okay, but there's two things on that front page. There's first offense, but that's under the California Penal Code versus then underneath it says commercial quantities.

That's all attached. So this is for like regular dumping. And then to me, I read it as like the bullet points, regular dumping. The second paragraph, commercial dumping.

Okay, so you're differentiating.

I would say all of that. So like a first time offense up to $1,000.

Councilmember Kern.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I would like us to have the strictest ordinance possible. I want reporters to come in, interview the city of Brisbane about how strict this ordinance is going to be. I WANT YOU TO CRAFT A WORK OF ART AROUND THIS.

PR.

YES. I GET SO FRUSTRATED BY THIS. ANGEL, CAN YOU PULL UP SOME OF THE PHOTOS THAT I SENT YOU THIS AFTERNOON, PLEASE? SO THIS IS FROM YESTERDAY ON SOUTH HILL ROAD. I JUST WANT TO JUST TAKE A QUICK STEP BACK. I'VE SPENT SOME TIME IN THE FRONT SEAT OF OUR SQUAD CARS. SO I SPENT A DAY ON THE DAY SHIFT WITH ROBBY GUEDECAN. AND I INTERVIEWED HIM IN THE SQUAD CAR AND I SAID, How many people do you catch dumping? He said, it's nearly impossible for us to catch them. So then I sat down and I hopped in Lester Vegas, Sergeant Lester Vegas' car, and I did a night shift patrol. And he said, we can never catch them, Frank. And then I went on a walking tour with Officer Will Munez, and we walked all of South Hill Drive. This pile of junk you're seeing on the screen here was taken yesterday. This picture was taken yesterday. This is on South Hill Drive. This isn't some remote place out on Tunnel Road. This is right here in Crocker Park. And this is not a Tesla Model 3 pulling up. This is somebody that had a massive truck that knew exactly what they were doing. Their intent was there. I have zero patience for this. I want us to have a potential see something, say something campaign where if you were a Brisbane resident and you report a dumping and they get convicted, you get like a grand. Something crazy. I'm being serious here. We have to do something to motivate people to report this because the officers are not seeing it.

Bounty hunting. Crime stoppers.

Like crime stoppers. Back in the day, I don't even know if that's a thing any longer. So to Madison's point, the last time I was at our partners at Recology, and we're very fortunate to have them here in Brisbane. Again, sorry for my voice tonight. It was $261.95 a ton. So you fill up your car with your junk. You drive your car into the scale, they weigh your car, you drive into the building, you unload the car, you put the electric stuff in this bin, you put your chairs in this bin as you unload your car, and then they weigh the car on the way out. That's 13 cents a pound. There's gotta be something that we can do to encourage people to get inside of Recology and not dump outside of it. So I'm just saying that's not very expensive to get rid of stuff. Mattresses cost more, folks, but I'm just saying. So I am in favor of the strictest possible ordinance. I mean it needs to be newsworthy.

Thank you Everything comes back to what we're not seeing and have we in the same vein looked into whether we need some cameras and are the flock cameras not catching people bringing loads of stuff? To dump a mattress, you've got to pretty much tie it on the roof of a car or have a truck. So if this is costing us a ton of money per year in collecting on public property and all over the streets, Do we need more flock cameras to try to catch people doing this? As an aside to the fees, if that makes any sense.

I'd like to speak through the chair. I'd like to speak further with the chief about this. Just my sense is that I don't know that The flock camera system is used very specific ways, and it would require additional investigatory responsibilities and time that the staff would spend looking at the cameras and seeing if there's some relationship. And clearly there's going to be some dumping that we're not able to really notice either because if it's been covered under a truck or something like that, we may not know. So there's likely a time component related to that work. There may be parts of town we want to put cameras in.

Certain areas that are repeated.

Yeah.

They're on Main Street, right? Yes. And the flock is really a license plate reader. It's not going to tell you a whole lot.

It's indirect in its investigatory.

Main Street has a camera, and I believe it's a motion-censored light that follows you. That's a big hot spot. South Hill, again, a huge one, too. But I would say I think Main's one of the only places where there is...

As I recall from previous council meeting in talking about flock cameras, I believe it was either the chief or Commander Garcia had said, we asked about dumping on tunnel and they said they sometimes do go back and look. They can sometimes tell where they've actually, I think Commander Garcia said they actually tracked somebody down because they saw them arrive.

They did.

And leave and whatever.

In Millbrae, they caught somebody that way with the flock cameras dumping a commercial dumper, like a landscaper coming and dumping a ton of dirt. South San Francisco scavenger told me that. But I bet you it would really come into play if you find someone's address. And I don't know if you're able to cross-reference and see any vehicles that are registered at that address, but it would be a lot easier to say, we have something with your address, and we also have your vehicle registered to your address here at that same time. I could see that helping.

Okay, so I have a question still. If we go with an ordinance, the administrative citation penalties, do they continue what we already have in place? Or does the ordinance override the citations? BECAUSE THE CITATIONS ARE MOSTLY POLICE.

SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WOULD THEN JUST WORK THE COST OF THE CITATIONS INTO THE ORDINANCE.

OKAY. JUST WONDERED HOW YOU HANDLED THAT. ALL RIGHT. I don't think that this is a vote yet. I think that this is to come back.

You have direction.

We need to have something come back to us. Thank you. This was a really good discussion.

Thank you.

All right. Now we're on to item N and we're gonna be bumping up to having to extend the council meeting. So I'm gonna ask if council would like to take and please, if you didn't abuse it, a five or 10 minute break and come right back because it looks like we're gonna be here for a while.

Well, is this the point where we would decide whether item N is something we do wanna entertain tonight or we wanna kick to September? Either way, we still have more on the agenda beyond this. I THINK I WOULD PREFER TO BRING, AS MUCH AS I LOVE NUMBERS, I DO FEEL THAT IF WE HAVE A BIG AUDIT CONVERSATION, UNLESS STAFF FEELS IT'S GOING TO BE REAL SHORT, THAT MIGHT TAKE MY ATTENTION SPAN, THAT MIGHT AFFECT MY ABILITY TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE OTHER ITEMS ON THIS LIST.

SO, YEAH, SO I MEAN, AREN'T YOU JUST REALLY JUST GIVING KIND OF AN UPDATE, YOU KNOW, JUST INFORMATIONAL?

RIGHT. WE COULD KEEP IT SHORT. WE WENT LOW ON THE NUMBERS BECAUSE IT IS REALLY MORE OF A STATUS UPDATE. JUST REVIEW. WE DO HAVE AN ADDITIONAL AUDIT THAT WE DON'T NORMALLY COVER. AND IN CONSIDERATION, WE ALSO HAVE ONE OF THE AUDIT PARTNER HERE TONIGHT. We were hoping to get it tonight, but it is at the pleasure of the council.

I think we can knock it out, but I could also go for a five-minute break, too.

How long do you think? When you say short, what does short mean to you? Okay.

I think we need to ask ourselves that question.

I could knock it down to 10 minutes, but that's not leaving your questions as well.

Could I make a suggestion that if we get into the presentation and then we have a lot of questions, we put it on another agenda to go over the questions. And maybe we don't have a lot of questions and it's just the report. Or that we have the prerogative to bring it back so we can absorb it, think about it. and ask questions again. Okay, take a five minute break, we'll be right back.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So we're going to need a motion. We don't have Terry yet. Thank you.

So I'm going to need a motion to extend the meeting, and I'm going to ask for it to be extended to 10 p.m., 10.02, a whole hour. So if we finish early, we'll go hooray. But we've already extended it, so we don't have to keep extending as we did one time. We have a motion, a motion, and I need a second.

I'll second it, but 10.02 is only 30 minutes from now. You just said an hour.

Sorry.

It's 30 minutes.

32. Sorry.

Oh, 10.32. We're extending until 10.32.

Oh, no. An hour.

I think that's a little bit long. We've been in a meeting since 5 p.m.

I get that, but the last time we did this, we had to keep extending. If we finish early, it's no big deal. We can extend it to 10.32, and if we finish early, we're done. We just don't have to keep doing motions every 20, 30 minutes.

I would make a motion to 10.15. Okay. That's the limit. Okay.

All in favor? Aye. No one opposed? Are you no?

I'm unopposed, but let's go.

Okay. Carolina.

I'm putting my timer on to hold me to my recommended amount.

For the record, this is item N. This is acceptance of the fiscal year 23-24 audit reports. Thank you. Go ahead.

Thank you for allowing us tonight. A view of the 24... AUDIT REPORT, WE HAVE SEVERAL REPORTS THAT CAME OUT OF IT. I ALSO WANT TO INTRODUCE, WE DO HAVE THE PARTNER FROM MACE WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE AUDIT, VICKY RODRIGUEZ-VALERGA, AND CAROL OUTWOOD WHO YOU MET LAST time we presented is a consultant here working with our team as we're moving through various years of audits. So going with the slides real quick. Preliminary, just a reminder of the annual comprehensive financial report we call the ACPR. So on the second slide, please. It is a comprehensive financial report that informs the users of the city's financial condition as well as performance. It is governed and applied the accounting standards of GAAP. Generally accepted accounting principles, but it's governed by the governmental accounting standards board covering the the various pronouncements that we have to follow Doing an annual report is required by law by the state and then also we need to do it in order to comply with the various debt instruments that we hold The next area, next slide please. It's just a breakdown reminder of what the ACFER structure is. There are three components. The introductory section is where the opinion is. So when people talk about an opinion, the audit opinion, that's where it would find it. The financial component are the analysis report, WE CALL THE MDNA THE AMOUNTS OR THE REPORTS THAT YOU'RE USED TO, AS WELL AS THE FOOTNOTES, JUST TO MAKE SURE WE KNOW THOSE FOOTNOTES ARE ESSENTIAL TO THIS REPORT. AND THEN AT THE END IS THE STATISTICAL SECTION FOR THE TRENDS. AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE AUDIT FIRM DID GIVE US A CLEAN OPINION, WHICH STATES, IN OUR OPINION, THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS REFERRED TO ABOVE PRESENT FAIRLY IN ALL MATERIAL RESPECTS. AND THAT'S FOUND IN ALL OF THE OPINION. MOVING TO THE NEXT SLIDE. JUST GOING OVER SOME RESULTS FOR 2024. WHAT IS WE DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT REVENUE We did see a general increase in the general fund of over $3 million, primarily because of the increase in revenue over the budget. And although our expenses exceeded budget by $5 million, it was still the revenue was enough to cover the additional expenses. So therefore, we saw an addition to the bottom line. THIS IS FOR THE GENERAL FUND. THE NEXT SLIDE JUST KIND OF SHOWING THE REVENUE RESULTS, WHAT DROVE THOSE LARGE COMPONENTS. PROPERTY TAX AND SALES TAX CONTINUE TO INCREASE. WE EXPECTED THOSE INCREASES. BUT ONE AREA THAT WAS NOT PLANNED FOR WERE GRANTS. 5.5 MILLION WERE RECOGNIZED. JUST WANT TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY THAT PART OF IT WERE RELATED TO FEMA FUNDS THAT WE RECEIVED FOR THE 22, 23 STORMS. AND THEN WE ALSO RECEIVED ADDITIONAL MONIES FOR A SPECIFIC GRANT RELATED TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW THAT WAS ONE OF A CALIFORNIA AGENCY. THE NEXT SLIDE. JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT IN SALES TAXES BECAUSE THIS IS AN AREA THAT WE'RE KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON. WE'VE BEEN INCREASING OUR BUDGET FOR SALES TAXES, BUT WE ARE CONTINUING TO SEE ACTUAL GROWING AS WELL. FOR 24, THE SALES TAX DIDN'T EXCEED THE BUDGET, BUT IT STILL WAS ON A TRAJECTORY OF GROWTH. So that's it for the ACFER highlights. We want to move on to the second report that you were provided, which is what we call the MOIC, or the Memorandum on Internal Control. This is a report that talks about DESCRIBES THE PROCEDURES THAT THE AUDITORS HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHEN THEY CONDUCT AN AUDIT, AND THEY GIVE AN EXPLANATION OR RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE RESULTS OF THOSE TESTS. IT MATTERS BECAUSE IT SHOWS TRANSPARENCY FOR THE GOVERNING BODY TO KNOW HOW THE FINANCIALS ARE, WHAT GOES INTO THE FINANCIALS, HOW THOSE CONTROLS ARE BEING HANDLED, AND IT INCLUDES MANAGEMENT'S RESPONSE IF THERE ARE ANY FINDINGS. FOR THIS YEAR, FOR 2024, MOVING ON TO THE NEXT SLIDE, JUST SHOWS THE FOCUS AREAS FOR THE MOIC. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND IS PART OF THE PROCESS OF CONDUCTING AN AUDIT, THERE IS DEFINITELY A RISK ASSESSMENT THAT'S CONDUCTED AT THE BEGINNING. So it's not always the same procedures every time you do an audit. It's not always the same areas you look at. There are actually variance analysis, different changes that have happened during the year that will contribute to how the auditors will conduct that year's review. And so there's a risk assessment that goes into it, control activities, a lot of communication on how things are being done, on how we say things are done versus the proof of when they're reviewing the activity. And then just so that A REMINDER THAT FOR THE MOIC, IT REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE TONE AT THE TOP, HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT IF THE GOVERNING BODY AND MANAGEMENT IS REALLY HIGH ON INTERNAL CONTROLS AND MAKING SURE THAT THE NUMBERS ARE, THAT THERE'S INTEGRITY INVOLVED, THAT THAT GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN THROUGH THE ORGANIZATION. Okay, next slide. Just the structure of the report. Again, there are three different sections. There's a schedule of material weaknesses that's described, if any. Schedule of significant deficiencies, if any. And then the next section is communication to the governing body as well as to staff, just as a reminder of pronouncements that are coming up. TO BE PREPARED FOR, AND IT'LL HELP THE GOVERNING BODY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE STAFF WILL HAVE TO BE REVIEWING IN THE COMING YEARS. SO WITH THE MOIC OF 24 WAS QUITE A BASICALLY WAS A REPEAT OF 23. UNFORTUNATELY WE WERE DELAYED IN 23 AND 24. WE'RE STILL WORKING ON 25 AUDIT, BUT BECAUSE OF THOSE DELAYS, IT CAUSED FINDINGS THAT WE WERE PREPARED FOR, WE UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE GOING TO COME, AND IN ADDITION THERE WAS ONE MORE DESCRIBING A DELAY IN THE SINGLE AUDIT. SO WITH THOSE FINDINGS, MANAGEMENT PROVIDED THE COMMENTS, AND WE'VE ALREADY BEEN PUTTING SOME OF THE REMEDIES IN PLACE TO CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD TOWARDS CLOSING OUT EACH ADDITIONAL YEAR OF THE AUDIT. And then finally, the next report that we provided, moving on to the next slide, is the single audit. The next slide, please. There we go. So a single audit, we don't do every year. It's only necessary if there are federal funds that are given through grants. And then also, just because you're getting federal funds doesn't necessarily mean you have to conduct a single audit that year. It depends on if the expenditures exceed a certain amount. IN A GIVEN YEAR. AND FOR 2024, THAT AMOUNT WAS 750,000. SO WITH THE FEMA GRANTS, WE DID RECEIVE FEDERAL MONEY AND WE EXPENDED OVER THE 750, THEREFORE WE HAD TO ENGAGE THE AUDITORS TO CONDUCT A SINGLE AUDIT. THIS IS A SEPARATE REPORT REFERENCED IN THE ACT FOR AND GOES HAND IN HAND WHEN REVIEWING THE FINANCIAL RESULTS. AND THEN SO EACH Each granting agency outlines how the program is supposed to work, how the recipients are to use the money, and the single audit not only goes through the monetary reporting, but it also goes through the compliance of each grant program to make sure that we're following the recommendations and the requirements of the program. So one overall audit instead of doing individual grant audits. But we have to look at how much was spent in the year. So the next slide for the single audit. The objectives, again, were the expenditures in accordance with the grant. Were they allowed? Is the reporting accurate? Very important. And then also there are policies that you have to have in place. And just because it's a, A GRANT, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE FOLLOWING THOSE PROCEDURES AS REQUIRED. SO FOR THE RESULTS, THE NEXT SLIDE, THE RESULTS OF THE SINGLE AUDIT, THERE ARE INTERNAL CONTROLS THAT ARE REVIEWED, JUST SIMILAR TO THE ACT FOR PROCESS, AND THOSE ARE TESTED, AND AS PART OF THAT, THE SINGLE AUDIT COMPLIANCE REVIEW RESULTED IN NO FINDINGS FOR 2024. And then the last slide is basically just talking about now that we're moving on to finishing up 2025 and beyond, what we're dealing with for financial purposes. We've already did the two studies that we initiated, Master Fee and Business License. We're implementing the Master Fee. In 2027, we're going to be doing the business license for November. We are experiencing growth in sales taxes. And then for the expenses, we still have labor negotiations to finalize and continue to find ways to manage our resources efficiently. On the fund balance, we still have strong RESERVES DUE TO POLICIES THAT WE'LL BE REVIEWING OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, AND FOR STRATEGIC PURPOSES, WHERE WE CONTINUE TO FIND WAYS FOR REPORTING NOT ONLY SHORT-TERM BUT LONG-TERM AS WELL. WE ARE AIMING TO GET THAT BOND RATING REINSTATED ONCE WE FINISH THE 25 AUDIT, AND THEN WE ARE CONTINUING FOR OUR STAFF PRIMARILY TO ADDRESS THE VARIOUS STAFFING ISSUES THAT WE'VE BEEN EXPERIENCING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. So with that, thank you for your time, and I'll leave it to you for questions.

All right, let's start with Councilmember Lentz.

Thank you, Carolina. So, yeah, you know, when you're reading the document, you know, you're going back in time, and sometimes it's confusing, you know, because you're always thinking of the present time. but yet you're reading information that happened a couple of years ago. So I'm curious, though, by doing the audit in this manner, are you taking a deeper dive than what would have occurred a couple of years ago, or is it exactly the same?

In the sense of procedures we do or the audit procedure? Both.

So what you're required to do and then having the third party verify.

It's very similar in the process of your reporting. IF YOU'RE ABLE TO HAVE SOME TIME TO DO ADDITIONAL WORK, YOU WILL, BUT YOU HAVE TO ALSO REMEMBER WHY IT'S LATE. AND SO SOME OF THOSE, YOU'RE NOT CURTAILING, BUT YOU WON'T ALWAYS HAVE MORE TIME TO LOOK AT THINGS BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE CURRENT YEAR BUDGET, YOU'RE STILL GOING THROUGH THE VARIOUS CYCLES THAT YOU'RE ALSO DOING THE OTHER YEARS. YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND what's happening, yes, I agree that what was going on at that time when you're doing part of the processes of the reviews of the process interviews of what was going on at the time. But as far as the evaluation, it wouldn't necessarily be taking more time because you're still conducting for the various other years that you're working on.

Okay. And then, you know, you said that the 2025 audit is the next one. So it's like stepping stones, you have to do this first, then you YOU CAN DO THE NEXT ONE, WHICH THEN ENABLES YOU TO DO THE NEXT ONE.

THE NUMBERS FINALIZE, WHICH ROLL INTO THE NEXT YEAR. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF STEPS THAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE FOR 25, BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE DONE THAT HAVE, THEY'VE CLOSED, THEY'VE REPORTED, THAT'S WHAT IT IS. AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER AREAS THAT YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL YOU GET YOUR FINAL NUMBERS BEFORE YOU CAN ROLL INTO THE FOLLOWING YEAR TO BEGIN AND DO THE FINAL ANALYSIS AND FINAL REPORTING.

Okay.

All right. All right. Thank you.

Mayor Pro Tem Davis? No questions for me. Council Member Kern?

Thank you, Carolina. Again, sorry for my voice tonight. In reading the memorandum on internal controls, I saw that staff agrees with all the recommendations. Okay, that's great. So we just finished up the 23 audit, and this looked essentially similar to the 23 audit, if not almost the same, based upon my memory. Is that a true statement?

For the MOIC, yes.

Yeah, okay, perfect. Also, in this audit, I saw in the 23-24 fiscal, we saw a pretty big jump in sales tax collection. Is there anything that that can be attributed to?

So there are some one-time events in 24, some contributing, and then it was also a large retailer that was starting to, their business was starting to grow, expand in the city. So that's why we're keeping an eye on it to determine each phase of growth with that business and how it's affecting us.

Great, okay. I don't have any further questions, but congratulations on getting this done.

Thank you.

Councilmember O'Connell?

I have no questions at this time.

Thank you. And I have no questions at this time. I think we're all just wearing out. We'll come back to you with questions. But thank you very much for the presentation and the staff report. It's very well done. Thanks for staying all this time. And thank you, Mays, as well. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you.

Do we have anyone wishing to make a public comment?

No hands raised, Madam Mayor.

Okay. So this was just a report. We have no vote. Oh, yes, we do. A motion.

I'll make a motion to accept.

And a second.

I'll second. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All in favor?

Aye.

Anyone opposed? No. Okay. Have a good night.

That's why you stayed. Thank you.

All right, moving on. City Manager's Report, City Updates and Upcoming Activities. City Manager Dennis, you're on.

Thank you. In the interest of time, I'd like to skip my report and move to the next items. Thank you.

Next item we have, selection of two alternate representatives to the North County Fire Authority JPA Board of Directors staff report, please.

Thank you very much, Madam Mayor, members of the council. Again, appreciation to Christina Fernandez, your assistant city manager, for preparing this report. The city's been a member of the North County Fire Authority since 2001. Unfortunately, since that time, we have not assigned two alternative alternates. I'm going to get that right. TO SERVE SHOULD THE TWO REGULAR MEMBERS NOT BE AVAILABLE. SO TONIGHT'S STAFF REPORT REQUESTS TWO ACTIONS. ONE, TO ASSIGN TWO ALTERNATES TO THE NORTH COUNTY FIRE AUTHORITY BOARD AND ASSIGN ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, ONE OF THE TWO ALTERNATES TO ATTEND OUR UPCOMING ANNUAL BUDGET MEETING WITH THE FIRE AUTHORITY AS ONE MEMBER WILL NOT, COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND. THANK YOU.

Council questions. Council Member Kern.

I volunteer. No questions.

That was easy. Council Member O'Connell.

No questions, but I just wanted to say that Council Member Davis and I serve on that as the primaries, and so it'll have to be other people's.

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to cut you. No, no, that's okay. Are you done? Okay. Council Member Lentz.

You know, Madam Mayor, you've You got a lot on your plate, so I will take the alternate position with Council Member Kern.

It usually is like a 15-minute meeting once a year, so it's really not likely. Normally it is. Yeah, this one's going to be long.

And then I guess we'll rose shampoo for taking back the hot seat. Who's replacing, who's alternate to me?

We can figure that out later.

And Mayor Pro Tem Davis? That's it? Okay, so.

Well, do we need to figure out who's attending the budget meeting? Is that a motion that we have?

I would like that. I think that council should assign that tonight. I think that makes sense instead of doing that at a later time. The meeting's next week, so two weeks.

And so do we need for the alternates to check their schedules? Because they might say, yes, I can do it, but without day and time.

I'll tell you what it is. The 28th at 5. 28th, yeah. It's in Daly City, though. It's in Daly City. I have it from 6 to 8.

Oh, is it 6 to 8? Sorry. I'm free.

It's also later than it normally is. So Frank is free.

Okay, let me see, 28th?

28th, 68th.

Yeah, I am free as well.

I'll just tell you that it's going to be a lively meeting.

I'll bet.

So whoever is coming with me to that meeting.

What are we wearing?

Should be prepared for some action.

To back her up. To back me up. She needs a backup that's.

WAITING. I'LL DO IT. BUT WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, FRANK, I'M COOL WITH IT.

YOU GUYS WANT TO JUST SORT IT OUT AFTER THIS?

YEAH, WHY DON'T WE JUST TELL US?

WE'LL JUST, JEREMY, WE'RE GOING TO SORT IT OUT. LET ME KNOW TOMORROW, GENTLEMEN.

SORT IT OUT.

YEAH.

OKAY. SO, DO WE NEED ACTUALLY A REAL MOTION ON THIS? PUBLIC COMMENT. PUBLIC COMMENT. Oh, sorry, public comment. Anybody? No. No, Madam Mayor. I see hands up in the audience here. No, sorry, they changed their mind. Okay, so can I get a first and second to select Councilmember Kern and Lentz as the alternate representatives to North County? So moved. Second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? No. Next, Item T, appointment of member to the Bayland Subcommittee Staff Report, please.

Thank you. Similar to this previous item, tonight we're here to ask that a new member be assigned to the Bayland Subcommittee as Council Member O'Connell will be unable to participate due to prior commitments. So we're looking for someone who could serve in that role as we conclude the process. Thank you.

Is this a permanent replacement or is this just an...

I believe staff recommended that it was permanent. I'm on my way out anyway and so they felt that any discussions that might start would need to be continued and it might jeopardize Brown Act if I left and was informed and then came back. And it's just that we're going dark in August and I'm taking advantage of that. And they intended to have meetings during August.

I would be happy to step up unless someone else.

Well, I also had been on Bayland Subcommittee before. I think it should be someone who's been there that knows what's going on.

I've been on the Bayland Subcommittee before.

I'm not saying you weren't. I'm just saying. So council discussion.

I agree with that.

Council discussion. Council Member Davis, I mean Mayor Pro Tem Davis, you want to start? or questions, discussion? Either or. We'll take both. I have no questions. Okay. Council Member O'Connell? No questions. Okay. Council Member Kern?

No questions.

Okay. Council Member Lin?