Cc - Regular Meeting

Are we all set to go? Just what? Okay. All right. We're going to go ahead and get started. We've got uh one member of the public here and there might be some online and that's great. We welcome Mrs. Larson, who's joining us for our work session. This is for work session that we're having on code updates.

It'll be presented by our city attorney, Miss Nicole Coddle, and she uh she's been she was tasked a few months ago to go through and reorganize, rewrite, me, re uh number and update a code that has been around for an awful long time so that uh we're ready to go for the the next couple years slash decades maybe. Um, so we will turn the time over to her, city council. Uh, in the course of her presentation, I'm guessing if you have questions, just go ahead and, uh, hop on in and ask her for clarification. Miss Codle,

thank you. Hey, can I switch over to my slideshow, Christina? Okay. So, uh, thank you for the opportunity. As you heard the mayor say, um, we have a great experience of being able to take a look at the code as a whole. and update it. I wanted to in in preparation for upcoming meetings where we'll present to you um some code changes, I wanted to give you a little bit of an overview of what's been happening and what we're doing, how we're doing it, why we're doing it, and then talk you through what the process will become uh going forward. Um, one of the first things I think to know is, as the mayor said, um, it's very common for cities to um, have a code that's just like our code, one that has been around for a long time that we've built into as we go along. And over time, those codes um, can can a little bit of reorganization, a little bit of touchup as things change. We also have a really active state legislature as you know and so we often have um code changes that come down from the state that needs to be implemented as well. Your staff prior to me has been excellent exemplary and all of those things are often done but as we start to put in these new things that the state has required of us and and some of those things um uh we get a little we get a little uh bit of a need for a review. It's also very rare um actually for a whole code review. In all of my almost 30 years now in municipal government, I've been involved in a lot of code reviews. All different sections, all different types. A whole code review, first of all, takes a really long time because it it all fits together and it's a pretty big document. We'll look at it um in just a minute. But also um most many I shouldn't say this many cities um don't have an

appetite for it typically because it is a lot of work. It's a lot of heavy lift. It's a lot of it it's asking a lot of um you as as elected officials because it's it's a lot of review by you and so there are not very many cities who undertake this in the fashion in which we have which I think is really kudos to mayor's leadership and to your leadership. It's really important and having a really upto-date we'll talk about why it's really important to have an up-to-date user friendly defensible um city code and how that just makes things um in in our city really and effective. So I'll get right through to starting to talk about why which we kind of just talked about. So first of all just having excellent co codes make us um both compliant with our with our state code but also allow us to provide um really great what I would call customer service. So, of course, I think that you uh would agree that our customers, of course, are the citizenry here and also the people who do business in our city. And so, having a code that helps them um be able to do that business in a way that's easy and user friendly is also really important. Concise, clear, and transparent helps me defend your actions and defend the decisions that you make as well. And it also really helps when when a a just a person who wants to answer a question can hop into the code themselves and say, "Oh, this makes total sense to me. I completely understand what this is." And so that's really the reason for the review in addition to these legislative changes. One one thing on that topic I wanted to just hit up front that I think is important for any city to understand is that our state is um what's called a Hutchinson rule state. And what that means is anything that is not specifically prohibited in state law, cities can do. So you'll see as we go through some code sections here, there are some things that are very specifically prescribed to us and some

things that are prohibited and we can talk about those. But other than that, if there if it's not in state law specifically prohibited, then then we can do it. So what that translates to is the how do we do it and the how that we do it are by two by two actions. The first is by adopting ordinances which are the rules for our for our jurisdiction right the rules for land use the rules for doing business in our city um the rules for how how you govern the rules for how our form of government sits those kinds of things those are done by ordinance. Then we have resolutions which are direction. There's city council saying to the staff, saying to the mayor, please go execute on this policy direction. And other than things that are explic explicitly prohibited at the state law level, the world is our oyster, if you will. Okay? And so that's where you get to govern. And by having a a code that we've really taken a lot of time and and effort in um that ensures that smooth government, it gives you um the ability to do the things that you want for your your jurisdiction for our city and make sure that we're doing that within the bounds. So that's kind of the why. Um so here is how we're proceeding. And I think that again, this was important for me to have a just a quick bit of time with you so that you knew when I know when I bring these codes to you in the coming weeks. We're going to try to do those in chunks. And I wanted to go through the process that I've been through so that you'll know what we're looking for. Sorry, M. Did you?

Okay. Gotcha. Um uh so

so here's how I wanted to kind of talk about how we're proceeding through. So as as you heard me mention our codes are in good shape from a practical perspective, what exists in the code, the rules and regulations. They've been very um judiciously handled and the the for the most part the policies that are in there, the underlying decision making probably won't have to change very much. And what I'm finding so far is that we won't change very much. But what we're looking at is so first you can see here the first thing I do is a legal review. So I take I take a look at our codes and we'll we'll look at how they sit right now. But and do go through and do a legal review. And what I'm looking for is does it comply with state law? Have we incorporated any new changes to state law or any result of case law? So, so some things come right out of the statute and some things come from a ca a bad case know or a good case. Maybe there's a good case in in one of the cities. So, I'm doing a full legal review of every single word of your code of our code of the code and um looking for that from a legal review perspective and then putting in the things that are new from state law which again will be a yearly has been and will continue to be a yearly exercise with regards to Okay. Um, also a review for grammatical and parallelism and concise language. So that's a perfect example that topic and that need as it relates to our code is a perfect example of what happens when you have a longstanding code that has been changed over time written by various staff members written um in various times and places with regards to various topics. So you you don't see a lot of parallelism and um concise language and matching um methodology. Okay. So some of the changes that have been made again not

policy based. So any of those changes would not change your underlying policy as a council. We want we want a tractor business to have to get a business license. Awesome. That policy isn't changing. But the the sentence the method by which I I might guess the sentence says might change so that it looks like the sentence above it and looks like the sentence below it. Right? So that I think is also something that is fundamental from a I like to look at I like to do that review and then I like to think about it as if I am the tractor company. I don't know why I picked a tractor company. You could do a chocolate factory, whatever you want. Um, but but what if I were the person who wanted to know what the rule was in Brigham City? Could I from what is written understand that? Now, that's that's a pretty high expectation because we might not be able to describe everything in writing and it's totally okay for someone to call in, ask the question of our staff, ask the question of the mayor's office. That's completely appropriate. But the way that um I like to view this as sort of a third or fourth review is okay, a citizen, if a resident, if a um business owner were trying to glean something from this, could they understand it the way that I wrote it? Could they does it make sense from that eye? And I try to see that. We'll see. We'll see what you guys think about whether or not I've accomplished that or not. And um helpful, right? I want to be helpful in that in that way. Then uh we review for usability. Again as I mentioned ability to be understood and I look at it from a few different ways right we have to make sure that um the court any court action any any judicial review would be stellar any u council review would be stellar any third party review or user would be able to understand it. So there are lots of

layers of that as well. Um, which makes it a little tricky from a you kind of almost have to be really concerned about nearly every word um to really have a a high quality um language document by the time you're done. Um, so and as I mentioned at the end at so far based on based on what you'll see in the coming weeks, I would say we're probably at about 70% complete from a review and preparation ready for you to look at perspective. very few policy changes so far. Meaning or policy questions even very few things that I will bring to you or that mayor and Derek want to bring to you to say, "Hey council, this is something that's in our code. It's from 1998. We as staff might suggest on this policy question want blue or purple, you know, whatever the the the actual policy decision that you have to make as elected officials." So far there have been very few in about that to 70% range um of code which is which is great right that just means then this is cleanup legal review this is parallelism and we're off to the races and there there is not much change from that the rest the other 30 or 40% 30 or 25% that way um there will be I think some policy those are going to be your land East Coast. Those are going to be the um a little touch around the edges on business license. There will be some questions where we say, "Hey, do you want do you still want this to be a conditional use in this zone? Are you still okay with that?" Those or or are you okay with that? Those kinds of questions. Yes, sir. I

think I understand what parallelism is. Would you mind explaining what that is in reference to code?

Yeah. Yeah. So, so great question. So from what I mean by that is so let's say you have a code that deals with animal services and you have a code that deals with um parks and recreation and those those are two separate sections of your code. So right now and and I'm making this up. I don't think these two have this but right now this section would h would look like a purpose statement. Then it would have a um then it would have a another paragraph that talks about the policy considerations that you discussed as a as a council when you adopted it. And then it would have paragraph ABC sub paragraph 123. But this section of code doesn't have a purpose statement. It doesn't have a discussion of your policy desires. And the the numbering is totally different. Right? that the sub paragraphs are one, two, three, little i, little two, little three. So parallelism when I use it in this term, when I use it in this in this context, what I mean is I want every section of code to feel the same stylewise, meaning we aren't having a purpose statement because that's not helpful. Purpose statement, not good. We'll put the purpose statement in the ordinance that adopts it. No, but when we put in the rules, when we have the rules on your book, those rules are just the rules. If you want to know why the discussion was was made, go back to the ordinance and talk about what are in the warehouses, right? You guys are familiar. So, so we don't need that in our rules. We just need that in our warehouses. And so, I want every section, every every independent section of code to feel like the same path, the same process. and to be numbered the same and to proceed in the same

um structure, not like a template. Exactly. Great way to put it. Yeah. Just very consistent. It feels the same. It's logical. Makes really logical sense. And it's just the rule, right? It's just the rule. So, and again, not every code section has come in in that way. It's it's very stylistic. And because you you all are blessed with a very very longstanding code, um the style from 1960 is totally different than 1994, totally different than today. So back in 94, the purpose statement was like the cat meow, right? and the policy discussion. Oh yeah, whatever lawyer was in charge of then or whatever whatever you know city person city manager group was saying this is the best way to do a policy that's what we were all doing and this is not this is not unique to us here in Bron City this is all over the whole state by the time we're done with this we're going to have the best code in the state for sure it's going to be the most logical it's going to be the the most um well put together not and not because I'm doing it because we're doing together, right? That sounded a little weird. I didn't mean it like that, but because because as I mentioned at the beginning, these really don't take the this is a heavy lift and they really don't take the time to go back. If their codes are working, which yours have been, if they're functioning appropriately, and if you can kind of make your way through, they just let it sit there on the shelves and that that's great. But this is going to be really really by the time it's done. Great question, Mayor. Does that answer answer your question?

You didn't even know you had.

Very good. You gota break up my you break up my monotonous tone to you. I can talk for a long time. Okay. Um I've kind of gone through this. I'm going to skip a skip a slide. Um I've talked about the legal review. So specifically, as I mentioned, statutory compliance, case law, new law that's coming down. um any conflicts. We do we have had I've I've seen a few cross um code conflicts that we've have had had to clean up. Meaning there was a parking standard over here that that's the same one that's over here. We should just have it in one place. Right. So those kinds of things are like more legal clean up cleanup time.

So you have one that says something here and then something that's similar but says something totally opposite. A little different.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that's kind of the legal review that among the other things we've already um again clean up I've already been through that the ambiguous term we do have the other sort of thing that goes into parallelism is we do have a tendency to have definitions everywhere. So we're we're kind of trying to consolidate the definition portions. definitions are important um but a defined term should mean that everywhere if you will and so we're kind of trying to merge that together and make sense with that um obsolete language we have we had a lot of that again back in back in 2004 or whenever it was whoever was writing this had very flowery language you know in in 96 it was not flowery at all and so we're kind of trying to find that happy medium of no extra words because lawyers don't like extra words because we have to defend against those, right? And I want the words to be straightforward, reasonable person standard. Any reasonable person can read this code and know what it means and and a judge can feel the same way, right? Okay. Free numbering. Now, this one's easy, and we'll go out to the code, and I'll show you how we've redone this, but um so the the code service that that the whole state uses, frankly, not just Brian City, but nearly every other city uses one of two code services. These are the code publishers. These folks try to push um cities into one type of numbering or another. And to be totally frankly honest with you, both are really hard. They are both not user friendly at all in my estimation. And I think part of what was what was said to me when this endeavor was started is it's really hard for us to to make our

way through these this numbering system, this code section 56.0. What are we doing? you know, and so so the renumbering of this is um kind of a big portion of this and that's part of making it user friendly, understandable, and really clean. And and some of the things that that you don't think about um when you're when you're not kind of engaged in this discussion, it's things like think about our code officer or our police officers or others who have to use those numbering sections. They're they're out there and they're flipping one way and the other and one section's here and the other's here and they've got it dialed. They know what they are now. They've got it dialed, but it's a little bit right. So, we're trying to re number. So, let me just um back out of my slideshow for just a second. And while while we're here, let's talk about this um as an example. So, here's your code. Here's our code. And um and see how it's set out. And you're all familiar with this. It's on our website. Uh, American Legal is our publishing group and and these these guys are again used. There's one other code group. They're used all throughout the state. What's called

Sterling and everybody has one or the other except for a very few have one or the other types of numbering. So, our numbering is not unusual as you can see here. Kind of interesting when you endeavor into our code. So, you're you're cruising down here and you're saying title one, skip to title three, title five, title seven, title nine, and you're kind of like, I don't know what's going on here. They don't like even for a second. Yeah. It's like a skyscraper where they the 13th floor. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, Roman numerals tricky, right? So, so at first first blush, you're like, okay, this is I'm not sure where is title two. Does title two matter? Am I missing title two? you can kind of see some of the just the very So then you go into title one and your chapter 10 and chapter 11 and then your 10.001. So you can see the the a mental hurdle. Okay. So if you look at how the state code like the Utah state code is is it works, it's kind of a more standardized and we could we could really quick just so you guys can see this. And I'm not s suggesting the state code as a as a fabulous piece of easy to navigate either. That's not my suggestion. Although it's it's great code and lovely and all, but you can see from how they uh it give you again. Okay. So you can see here title three, chapter 1, section one. So it's 311. Okay. If you go back to our code 311, this that's title three, chapter one, section one. There's really no parallel here to that. So you've got tit we're in title one. We're in chapter 10, section 10.001. So if we were going to write that out the same way we'd write state code, we'd write 1 10.001. So, it's very um I think it works for their system, the way they constructed it, but I'm not sure in their in their uh world, the the publishers world, they they thought about man on the street, so to speak. And so, so we've re the proposal is to reumber and I'll show you I'll show you kind of how that has

worked in order for simplicity, clarity, and user user usability user friendly scenario. Okay. So, let me hop back into my Any questions on that or we keep on cruising? Okay, hop back into my slides. So, we're on reumbering. Uh, we'll I'll I'll show you how that's working out in just Okay. Uh, okay. Let's talk about another really important thing that will be coming your way. I want you to know about before it comes your way, which is if we were going to So, you all are used to seeing all of your code your typical ordinance or code changes in redline strikeout form, right? If we were going to make these changes for you in redline strikeout form, it would basically be all struck out andor moved and then reruck out or the way that we're proposing which is full repeal, full reenact and then a detail of any any substantive or policy change. So if it has not been if there has not been any kind of substantive or policy change if it's just numbering if it's just grammatical cleanup parallelism um even anything but that it would just be total repeal and reenact if it's a new addition because there's a legislative change that that I've needed to add a sentence that you will see separately so you will know of any substantive change, but to do anything but just a full repeal and reenact big mess. And I only know because I actually did draft it that way the first time. And I as I wra as I walked there again,

the mayor threw it, they all had the moment of this is not in math. This is not work. It's not going to be helpful to you. Won't be helpful to the public and and it's very messy. So a full repeal and re full repeal and reenact is what you will see. That's what we will bring to you. I also have produced a matrix that shows um because there's a lot of movement of sections that shows where section 1.10.003.567 went to and what it's called now. So you can matrix through that and then um like I said any any changes that are proactive or you'll have a whole list of those as well. Also, when we bring this to you for adoption or potential review and adoption, um there are uh a few policy topics that I know that mayor and Derek, like three or four that mayor and Derek wanted to to um bring to you as policy discussions. Those will also be highlighted for you when they're in your packets. And then of course when when we um put those out for public consumption, those are highlighted as policy question. We have a policy question on this that we can work through. So I didn't want you to get your packets with these changes and go where's my red line? How am I supposed to know what's changed here? Full repeal and full reenact. I could still provide you the the full repeal red line, but it'll just be every section full strike, right? so cleaner, more understandable and the way we can parse through this very massive um reorganization but not that sound okay to you as a council. Okay, great. Um I also still think it is the most transparent in the sense that in order

to follow through as I mentioned the rubric of what would a red line strikeout tough tough okay um then we'll have after we do that sort of this fi final policy review um I will confirm that the policy intent is preserved uh we'll incorporate any feedback that we get and we'll have this so so the sections of code that we'll bring you first don't require a public hearing. They're they're they're the um I'll show you the title one, two, and three. They're the we were incorporated January 12th. No, we were those. Um we will get to the code sections that require public hearings. They'll require public hearing both at the account at the planning commission level and council level as they deal with land use. will all be um sort of in a whole different se a whole different section of work body of work that will take us probably through the spring through that process. Well, the first things that you will see are these first couple of sections for you. Um okay. Yep. This gets to the public notice um council consideration and vote and then ordinance publication and effective date. One of the other things to note is what's something that's important about code sections of all types, whether it's state law or or our code, um, is you have to have a a map back the history. You have to know when a section was and what that section was called before it was changed. If you look at our code right now, in fact, let me just show you this really quickly. you an example. You were to look at our code right now, you would see right here N.001 used to be used to be numbered 1.02 010. Okay, it's important to know that

in many cases because sometimes we'll have a contract that is based on a code section and it is um you know 15 years old. We might have a development agreement that is 20 years old. In fact, I think we do have several of those that are based on a particular code section and we need to be able to go back and for for Christina as our city recorder for the public and for transparency, we need to be able to riddle our way back through that. So, we do that in a couple of different ways. It's important for you to understand we keep and I say we really mean she keeps and Christina boss before her immaculate records of codes prior and it's actually really cool I don't know if you've had an opportunity ever or if you're nerdy like me but it's kind of cool to see those really old codes and we have those we have the physical copy we have an electronic copy we have the copy we sent to these folks the way that you riddle your way through that is this little this little prior code right here. So when you see in your packet the the next set of codes that we're asking you to review and adopt, you will see that I've already incorporated into so so it will say prior code 1.02.010 semicolon section end.001 and then there there are some that have more than that, right? So it will it will have whatever existed before and then it will have this current so we can riddle back through that. So if you're wondering what those big lists are, you'll see some of them have lots of those behind them. It means that code was changed a lot. Mayor, do you have a question?

No, I just that's kind of cool to see.

Yep. So that's another little It's actually a little tricky to make sure that's done um and done correctly, but so important. It's so important if we were to be in a litigation perspective. It's so important from transparency perspective and really important from a there are definitely times probably at least on a weekly basis. I bet Derrick says this, he will need to see something from a prior. Um, so it's it really is important to make it through that, but you'll see that in those. So, like I said, when you see some of these sections that have a whole big two or three rows of that and you wonder what that is, that's what I thought you were supposed to have them memorized. No link.

No link. And that's because they can't handle this. Yeah. Yeah. American Legal can't handle it. It'd be awesome. It'd be so awesome if there was a link. Like, that's exceptional work, but they can't handle it. Yeah. They're not They're not set up for that kind of effort. And we have codes that are so old. I'm not sure I'm not sure we could we could accomplish that either from some of the older versions. It's hard to link back to the handwritten books. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so amazing. So cool. If you haven't seen I mean they're downstairs. It's so cool. I have the original codes of the city handwritten. We have all of them.

Yeah. And your hat the scoop of water for the truck out of the horse trough. We should maybe bring those up. Sitting on the sidewalk is so cool.

But it's great to know where those are and to be able to riddle back through those. And we can get um we get back probably to the about 80s I would say here electronically late 80s feels like to me about that time frame. And then before that it's a little I mean before that there weren't very there weren't really computers, right? Not for the most part. When I started as a lawyer, computers were just new. We still we still do typewriter when I started as a lawyer now back almost 30 years. So you know big changes will we be able to think to maybe the discussion or the change um like five years. So when you mean big change, do you mean um that you will make now or historically?

Yeah. Policy or something? So what you would do, how would you person be able to like find out? Yep. Yep. Great question. So a couple different ways. The first one is you could go and say, "Let me find a better let me find one that has a has more to it." You'll be able to see here. Yeah. Okay. So you see

that one that one will have and then and then what you do of course as you as we talked if you look at this and it says ordinance 1805 pass date you know when you go back to these you'll recall we talked about the wherees and then of course you can link to that date um minutes wise and now even you could go theoretically to the recordings if you were in the certain range that we kept recordings or that we have recordings right so you can get pretty deep into the research without much problem. And and that's why the wherehouses are important. Sometimes I get questions about why we have the wherees. Think of all those wherees in agreements in resolutions and in ordinances kind of like a road map or like a little historical

um summary

so that you can do the things that that council member Tropz was talking about. You can wind your way through how did we get here? What what was the topic of the day? What was the history of that? And where are we? Why are we here to date? Those wherees really really good for that. And then of course obviously the minutes of the meeting and the discussions helpful too. Great question though. That's really really good question. Okay. So let's see here. We're almost done. Um might be done. Oh yeah. This is the adoption process. Okay. The other thing I wanted to show you really quickly. So you've looked at seeing what we have. Let me just go back to that real quick. Just refresh your recollection. Let's go back up to what ours looks like. And you can see now deep into it kind of what it looks like. Right. So here and and let's just let's just look. So I want my arrows down. I want them up. So you see that. Let's talk about the titles as well. So you've got title one, general provisions. Okay. We don't know what general provisions mean. We got to click into it. Title three is administration. Title five is public utility services. Seven is the traffic code. Nine is general regul regulations. 11 is business regulations. Uh 13 general offenses. Okay. No clue what that means. So we got to click into that. You'll see lots of things in there, right? But it's kind of a little bit um

clunky. Yeah, it's a little clunky. little clunky. Okay. So, so just keep in mind what we have here. We have we have a set of uh Okay, there we go. We have a set of we have a we have a map here of our code. Okay. What what we're proposing to bring to you is is pretty different from a setup perspect. Well, it's a different uh thought process. Okay. So for instance, we have title one is general provisions. Title two, we're going to go with the in order titles. We're gonna we're going to strive for that. We've got city government and then we're going to go administration, city council, police and fire. That's where we've decided kind of to suggest we have a dividing line there. Title three, public utilities and city services. Then we'll go public works, water, wastewater, sanitation, power, airport, cemetery, parks, library, city facilities. Then we have title four, which is consolidated these fee schedule and impact fees. Now this one, title four is a pretty new proposal fees. Um, you have adopted in your in your history. for fees, not impact fees, but all the other fees typically adopt those by resolution. And you do that like you'll have one tonight. I think we have one on tonight for adoption of some parks. That's right. So, perfect example. Okay. So, a couple of a couple of things that um that they're suggesting as staff to US council is that having a consolidated fee schedule is both um hard and easy difficult because it's it's substantial section of code. No, there there are

lots of little fees like the little league soccer fee and there might be four fees underneath that that are I have to have a a shoe a soccer shoe fee and a soccer ball fee and I don't know what we have right but there's a lot of fees like that. So when you see the proposal that we have with regards to the consolidated feed schedule, you will see that it's a is a big section of code, but it's a place the theory is it's a place where your your staff and you as a council and your user whether that's a resident, non-resident, you name it, can go to find find the information all in one place. Right now, how it works is you have fees in some locations. In some situations, you have the youth soccer fees will be placed on the top of the flyer, right? But if in four or five months I wanted to know what the youth soccer fee was, I would call say, "Hey, can you look up the resolution for the youth soccer fee for me?" Right? Okay. So in this case, what will happen is that all the fees will be there. And these are fees from the how much is the storm water fee and how do we calculate it, the sewer fees, all of those fees that you've already adopted. There's no new fees, not adopting any new fees. We're just putting them all in one place. Now, the the heart of that is sort of the same as doing a resolution because every time we change the fee of anything, we bring it back, right? And you vote on it as a council. Same thing will happen here, but we'll do it in ordinance form. So, we will bring it to you. If we have to increase the youth soccer fee, bring it to you in ordinance, consolidated fee ordinance form. They'll amend that. We'll amend it in the code and publish it so that it will be out here in the code for for folks to find. Um, lots of jurisdictions go back and

forth on that. Um, so we can that's a policy change. We're going to make that proposal to you. I've drafted it up so you can look at it and see if you like it. And it's massive massive but very organized and lovely user friendly. As massive as it is, it's smaller than going through the entire code sectionific.

Yeah. I mean our our resolution but obviously as we discussed this city staff with with the city attorney and kind of thought about what it's actually going to take to put all this together. I mean, some of our current resolutions not only talk about the fees, but then they talk about the policy at the same time. So, those things will kind of be uncoupled where here's the fee, but how and why we do shut offs and, you know, utility shut offs or all that is going to be uncoupled from that. And so I mean obviously it's a very cumbersome process to do something like this but obviously um getting that fee structure that's all in the exact same place and any policy that goes with that will obviously be in a new location and we can do a massive consolidation of the policies that are associated with any fee that the city sets because most of the collection or the penalty or whatever is associated with that can be done in a really simplistic way versus 80 different resolutions that say the exact same thing about collection collecting of fees. That makes sense.

A really efficient I think and effective way to admit frankly but but you'll we'll have to see what we'll have to see what you guys think about I actually feel like the consolidation P schedule is very user friendly for the system in one spot you know right where to look. Y um as sticking with the Roman numerals though, huh?

We don't have to. My only thing is Yeah. Then they can just not being connected to the action. I think about it. Yeah. I understand like yet not connected to why they the Yep. totally understand. Totally understand.

Obviously, the first time we adopt a consolidated fee schedule. It's not going to say every single thing in that ordinance. any change to that as time goes on. Remember, you'll have that ordinance with the warehouses of why you're changing that specific. So, first adoption, yeah, we're not going to have 30 pages of of warehouses, but anytime we go back and make an adjustment, you're going to have an ordinance that says, why are you doing what you're doing with this one specifically? and I always have to come back to you in a public meeting and be be put in that format. You see here impact fees included. You'll recall we just did an impact study and handled that. This is just a move putting that in a different place. Not any change. Um and then you see title five and six business license. Then the land use and zoning land use and zoning regulations are the ones I mentioned that have several public hearing processes through the planning commission to the council. That one is going to take us a little a little bit of time and process and a lot of change a lot of what the planning commission did five six years ago that they have to come in years ago and redo division.

We I mean obviously we've continually made adjustments to sections of the land use code, but we have not rewritten the land use code in the 15 years that I've been at the city. We've made modifications and adjustments as time move has moved on, but we we've not done a full rewrite the public. I think that there chapter we've done some significant general plan amendments. No, this is with the planning commission subdivision. There were changes the subdivision chapter and they they go back like the year before the legislature has made changes to the subdivision chapter for a lot a lot of sessions. So you may be thinking I mean there were some pretty signant years.

It was a special. Yeah, I think that's probably right. I don't know about it, but it's the Okay, so the I'll think of it. I know exactly what you're talking. We hired a firm. Yeah. To come in. So those were state legislative changes and there was a grant out there available for

come out. I know exactly what you're talking about. So those were 100% those were state legislative changes um that all cities had to go through. there was some grant money available that consultant come out and made all those. So that those were just simply modifications to our current land use code. So, as we get hot and heavy into this in the next little bit, I wanted to have you have that that in your mind so that when it hits your agendas, you're not out there wondering what the heck are we doing here? And um I can answer any questions or talk more about anything.

What is the company doing that we is that was that the one to get it online? Yeah, this American Legal American Legal It'll stay online after after Go ahead, Nicole.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, so that's exactly right. Derek was going to say it exactly perfect. Undoubtedly, um they still will be the code uh the code publisher. So, what we do is once we bring it through the process and you make your changes, we get it where we want it and you adopt it, then we send it in the very particular format that they want it. We don't except for numbering. We don't let them change our numbering, but they will publish it for us so that it's online and available and that can be accessed. They'll and that happens right now. When you make a change, what happens once you're done, Christina takes it and she will you'll see there's a pending code section in our ordinance online, but she'll send it to them and then they go through their mechanism and what they do is the same as what we're doing. They do a little cross check to make sure it's all accurate, which is awesome. It's great to be triple checked. They make the numbering the way that it's supposed to and then they make sure that their leak and get it all out there in the appropriate way so it's not chaos when the change is made. So, they do a great they do a great service that contract will be will continue to use American Legal.

Yep. Yeah.

Great question. Yeah. And they're great. Like I said, they're very it's very common. It's either them or the other. And they do a great job and keep it from being very chaotic. I don't This is a lot. And they've said to us, "This is a this is a lot for us. We're going to need some time." So, they will take some time to move through this in a very um appropriate way. and they've said it's a lot for us, but they're they're willing to be on board with us as we've contemplated this over the last sat down with Nicole almost a year ago now and asked her if this is something she could take on knowing that it was a heavy lift, big lift and she was willing to do it and she's been working on it now for a long time. I really feel like I I or well even now as mayor I get on there as an elected official and get lost and and confused and so does staff frankly sometimes is going to make it user friendly from top to bottom. Those that are moving to Brigham City or looking to do business in Brigham City, those that govern Brigham City, uh those that want to find out what's going on or or why we did what. So I I'm excited about it. I think just remind the council of something we dealt with over the past year. Um we had some citizens upset about some noise in a certain location of town and there were three different sections in our city our current city code talk about noise. So obviously when we're done with this there'll be one section of city code that talks about noise three different places in in honestly three different chapters. So, it'll be part of, you know, the cleanup and the parallelism. You didn't keep the uh the chronological voids that we had before, which was nice.

I I'm honestly not smart enough. Think it's somewhere else.

Yeah, I think Nicole said this. So, we're going to hopefully in the next council meeting, we're going to try to take two or three items at a time and bring them at you. And then there obviously is going to be a little bit of a gap with the land use code. Obviously, the public hearings associated with that and those have got to go through planning commission before they come to city council. So, we'll hopefully knock out 6, eight, six, seven sections right to start. At least title one and title two will be on your next agenda for review and and proposed discussion and adoption. Yeah, title one and title two. We're nearly complete on title three and then from there we get couple meetings

be fun and I what I go ahead get can we get just a brief summary of what a title is exposed to absolutely through an ordinance and stuff like that just so that we absolutely I'll do like a little I'll do like It's like a key. I'll see like Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

Yep. Yep. I was going to put all of that in the packet so that you can you can track it. That really provides you about three different ways to track it. You can track it just read it cold from start to finish and it's all it's all green field so to speak. You can look at the um matrix that shows where it goes or you can little um section that I talked about. And then of course I'll do this uh this almost like And anything else, Anita? And as we're going through this, obviously have questions ever,

tell your friends. This will be a good exercise for the public to come and see how these thing how how it works that way and and how we're improving the process and a nice transparent project for them to see the city go through. So, and it's a really big deal. I don't know if I layered that on thick enough, but this is very very rare for cities. Um, big deal. It's a big endeavor and it's um I mean it's awesome. Thank you. I'll have a code when you're done. Sometimes you just need to do some spring cleaning.

50 years. 50 years of spring cleaning. That's right. All right. Is there any other questions for for Nicole? If not, well, thank her. I thought that was well done and I don't even have anything to compare it to, but I follow. So, thanks, Nicole. All right, we will uh take a fourm minute break and those that need to use uh the facilities are welcome to. Then we'll go ahead and get started at uh as close to seven as we can with our regular city six, sorry, seven was several years ago. six o'clock with our regular city council. She actually Okay. Yeah, I still have to sign the plan. I think so.

update. Reminders. Okay. Reminders. Reminders. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is six o'clock. So, we'd like to get started with our regularly scheduled uh city council meeting for December 4th, 2025. We will start by uh uh we just got through uh for those that are joining us, we just had a work session on uh a code update project that we have embarked on. Uh our city attorney was explaining uh what to look forward to for city council for the next few several months, probably until the springtime before and maybe beyond depending on how it goes. But she wanted to let council know what to look for, what the differences would be. And we invite the public attend those meetings. It'd be a real nice exercise in transparency to see how these things are uh are written, the meanings of things. We invite you to keep your eyes peeled for the agendas that are posted. Please join us uh for those meetings. We start with a thought reading or an invocation by Bishop Tom Rust of the Brigham City Mountain View Ward and then a pledge of allegiance. I didn't assign this ahead of time, but uh Mr. Hip, would you mind lead us in that? Thank you, Bishop. Our dear heavenly father, we're thankful this day for the opportunity to to gather together. We're grateful for the opportunity to

live in this wonderful country and in this wonderful community. We ask for thy blessing from those in the community who have special needs, who through financial or health problems or whatever problems they may have, be able to find the help and and be able to able to have the help that they need better or get the help they need. We're grateful for those who serve in our community, for our city council and those who work on our for the city, thankful for those police officers and first responders. Please bless each of them that they'll guided they I help us that we can support them and help them listen. be able to express thoughts, opinions, do so in a very kind and loving way. Bless this. We ask that you bless us that we'll be able to have a wonderful holiday season and closer to others to help these saints Jesus Christ and his I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Bishop Rust and Council Member Hip. Appreciate your participation in tonight's council meeting. We have uh before we uh look at the consent uh those uh you look at our

agenda, we've got two opportunities for public uh interaction. First will be a public hearing. Now the difference between a public hearing and public comments for those who who don't know public hearing, the comments that we'll be asking for in the public hearing will be specific to that item. Public comment is where we invite the public to come to the podium and uh take up to three minutes and you can talk about uh whatever you'd like. And so that's the difference between the two. Uh we have two items of consent. We would uh ask for a motion to approve consent. So moved. We have a motion by council member Smith. Jensen. Thank you. Do we have a second? Second. Second by council member Hip. Do we have any clarifications or questions about the consent items? If not, all those in favor? I.

Any opposed? Thank you. Motion passes on the consent items. We have a new hire that we want to recognize in public works. Uh let's see, where did I put that? Uh Kayla Gollightly, a part-time wastewater grounds maintenance worker, has joined us. and we like to uh want to just uh make mention of of that and welcome them to the Brigham City staff. Next on our uh our agenda is our fir is our public hearing. is our first opportunity to receive public comment specific to a consideration of a resolution for the creation of Aiden and Shores public infrastructure district as an independent district authorizing and approving a governing document appointing a board of trustees and authorizing other documents in connection therewith and the related matters. We're going to invite who who are we inviting to Erin's here. Okay, online. Okay, we're going to turn the time over to Mr. Aaron Wade from Gilmore Bell to uh present to city council and the public on this. Once he has finished, we will uh ask for a motion to open public hearing specific this consideration of resolution. Mr. Wade,

yeah, can you hear me? Okay. Yes, sir.

Okay, good. Hey, I got stuck in a little traffic today and so I'm still couple minutes from my house in my car, but I'm still able to take this item if you'll have me. So that you know, thank you for the time. So, as was mentioned, this is a public hearing uh regarding the creation of the district. So, you know, after I I give uh the background here that any member of the public, you know, interested in commenting on the creation of the district is certainly welcome to do that. Uh we had a a pretty good discussion about this district at the council's last meeting. Uh we've previously discussed uh and shared with the city staff and and reviewed with the city staff a draft of the governing document and that essentially serves as what I would call the charter or the constitution for this P. So between that document and the state law, that's how the the P will be governed. U and so that approves the initial district area, the initial district boundaries, um as well as the what we call the annexation area. And the purpose of the annexation area under state law and the governing document is to allow the district to expand or contract its boundaries so long as they're within that annexation area. Um, and any boundary adjustment requires the consent of the property owner that currently owns that property. So the district can only change its boundaries if the property owner raises their hand and says, "I'd like to be added to the district or I'd like to be removed from the district." Um, so the statute allows the city to, you know, preemptively bless an area for expansions and withdrawals. Um, so that's what's available here. Uh the other piece that this district is permitted to do is to impose property

taxes um and special assessments with the requirement that the special assessments be prepaid on residential property uh before those units get conveyed to uh the ultimate homeowners. Uh so that's what's in front of you as was mentioned. It also appoints the initial boards of trustees. As just a note, that appointment is limited to property owners and their agents. Um, and then going forward, that board would continue to be self-appointing rather than being appointed by the city council. That's what was discussed and what was what was landed on there. Um, the other piece I just wanted to flag is there is still a a blank around the concept of an approved development plan. uh in that document. Based on some discussions with the applicant, it sounds like it's more or less the applicant that's most interested in a development agreement and the city was mostly interested in just the kind of the zoning overlay. And so I would just recommend that we just insert that approval of that zoning constitutes the approved development plan since there's since the city's not pressuring this uh development team for a development agreement from my understanding. So there, you know, a small tweak there. Um, and we are authorizing if the council moves forward with approval, we would be authorizing uh the city staff and the city council to be able to finalize, you know, any terms necessary just to align with with the approval here. So happy to answer any specific questions. Like I said, I think we covered a lot of this at the last meeting, but you know, available for any questions or you could certainly move into your public hearing. Thank you. Hold tight. Council, any clarifications or questions, Mr. Wade?

Did I say was there a maximum authorized in that? Did I the maximum mill levy? It wasn't in there, but there's not a maximum. Um, go ahead, Aaron.

Oh, the debt. Yeah, the debt limit I think was the other blank. I think um what the applicant was proposing to fill in there uh was a maximum limited tax debt limit of $20 million. Um and I you know I don't know that they would expect to issue that much but just to give some flexibility but I think that was what they were proposing to fill in that. Thanks for thanks for the reminder there. Just just to clarify there just because I I I pretty sure that you said 20 million but I think the speaker had you come across the room here as billion.

Yeah. 20 million. Still a still a big number but with an M an M and not a B. Yep. We almost asphixiated in here with a sucking sound from everybody gasping. So I just wanted to make sure that was clear. Apologies for the like I said I'm on on my phone and just on the freeway here so apologies just you have another question. Yeah, I was just Yeah, please go ahead. I'll probably ask. No, I I just was So So if we have a 20 million cap and something goes over, who pays for the Who pays for the overruns? Developer. The developer. The developer will pay. Absolutely. Okay.

And then just to make sure and this probably Somebody's probably gonna ask this for for or just to clarify this this uh proposed P is only on the property that is that that is owned. It's not on the entire city, just the property in question, the Aven Shores development.

That that's correct. Yeah, just as on the property covered by the petition. Um and all of those property owners consented to inclusion. So anyone in other parts of the city are not affected by this tax. It's only on property in, you know, there eventually is anticipated to be homeowners that move in and will pay this tax, but again, those folks are, you know, put on put on notice of the tax in several different ways, I think we talked about last time, but also are kind of voting with their feet by choosing to to live in that community. So, no one outside of it will be paying those taxes unless they move into the district. And then just one other just clarification uh for for the room council probably understands this or maybe not and that's okay. Um once the debt that the P is taken out for the P comes off of that property's taxes. Correct. That's Yeah, that's correct. So the the property tax, it's anticipated, you know, the the mill rate would remain in place um until the bonds are are paid off or otherwise discharged and then that tax rate really goes away and the purpose of the district is no longer, you know, there's no longer purpose. And so then the district would take the steps to dissolve. Um and so where it is a property tax debt levy, it really can only be used to administer the district. um and to and to pay the debt. So, yep, it will go away when the bonds go away.

Thanks, Aaron. Any other questions? Um my question is, so you're not doing all of the homes all at once. And so, it's it's in a phase project. So, how is it calculated? If someone buys a home during the first phase, how are their t are their taxes calculated against the debt compared to someone that comes in in the fourth phase? Are they responsible for ass from the beginning or that make sense question?

Yeah, that yeah that makes sense. Um, so no, it, you know, similar to other property taxes, it it's just a function of the county assessor, um, you know, establishing what they what they think the assessed value of the property is and then each year sending out that, you know, November tax notice and paying. So, you know, for instance, in the case you mentioned, you know, someone that's maybe in phase four versus phase one. So the developer will have been paying taxes on the vacant land all during the that initial time. Those taxes are low because vacant land's not taxed very high. But when the person moves in, they're just responsible for the taxes moving forward. So, you know, somebody that moves in in year one would pay more taxes than somebody that moved in, you know, in year four, but they've also been enjoying the benefit of those improvements in that community for a longer period as well. So that's kind of the the balance there.

As we're satisfied, council will move for a uh an to open a public hearing. Mayor, maybe just real quick, I know we discussed this two weeks ago in detail. There's a lot more public in the room tonight than there was. So maybe just real quick, can I take a second and talk about what this money is going to fund? I think that's a great idea.

Okay. So, so essentially up to $20 million worth of debt that would be issued by the public infrastructure district um has to be 100% spent on public infrastructure. So specifically what we're talking about with this is the development of 1,200 west on from essentially I mean relatively close to forest street all the way to a um where 1200 west just kind of dead ends and stops at this point in time. So the the largest portion of that debt and obviously engineers estimates project is not out to bid. We're talking seven, eight, maybe even $9 million worth of infrastructure for the development of 1200 West roadway. It's a obviously a a bigger roadway, the 106 foot rideway um on the general plan and obviously it would be constructed to the city standards um through there. Some of the other things that uh are are going to be constructed with this funding is um if you on 1200 West is you get about two 300 feet off of 12 West the sewers or any residential or any type of development um that will not flow back to the sewer line that's already installed in 12 West. So I think the second biggest portion of this project is going to be a sewer lift station um for the regional development in that area. So that would be 100% funded through this pit for regional lift station for the development um essentially 230 ft west of 1200 west. Um obviously storm drain infrastructure being installed, sewer infrastructure being installed, water infrastructure being installed, any of the public rights of way and roadways um to to develop this project would be funded through that pit. and and then obviously a public trail network as part of the

development is something and then essentially maybe some pocket parks would would be able smaller parks or maybe even regional parks depending on you know how that comes together through the development process and development agreements will come before the city council in the future. So, I think the biggest thing, you know, for the public that's here to that we talked about two weeks ago is 100% of this funding would be to build public infrastructure um that would otherwise, you know, be, you know, developed in multiple other ways that the city sees. But I think it's really important to know that um as you know the Brigham City Council, the Brigham City staff, as we look at development and the growth inside the corporate limits of the city, um I think the public always obviously you know wants to feel comfortable that new development is paying for new development and the existing 24,000 people that currently live in this city are not having to fund new development. And I think this is bought on bullseye a perfect example of new development paying for new development through this opportunity is with the public infrastructure district.

Any questions further questions council? Just a couple. Okay. Go ahead. Thanks. So just so I so I know if if we get into this about let's say 20 30 houses and then the bottom falls out um on this pit. How does that how does that look that takes another 15 20 years before uh the market picks up and more houses are built? I I can take that question if if that's okay. Um, please.

So, so the the way that these are set up, um, it's it's what we call a limited tax general obligation bond. So, you may be familiar with the general obligation bonds, most often issued by, um, you know, school districts, sometimes by cities, sometimes by counties. Um, but, you know, a a general obligation bond, you're pledging what's called the full faith and credit, right? So the example I always give is if a city had a general obligation bond outstanding and half of the city burned down, they would have to double their tax rate to to meet that obligation. There's just it's there's no way to back out of it. You've promised to levy whatever taxes. This is different because it's it is a limited tax bond. And so what that means is it's a general obligation bond with a ceiling or a cap on it. And so if you only build 30 houses and then you don't build another house for 10 years, those 30 homes and the vacant land are still paying the maximum property tax, but it doesn't double, it doesn't triple, it can't exceed the cap that you're approving today. Um, and so what would happen on the investor side is they're not going to be getting paid on time, right? they would expect their annual payments if there's only 30 houses and there's 10 million of bonds or whatever that that's not going to get paid on time. So the that's not an event of default. There's no foreclosure triggered. Um they would just the interest would compound. It would acrue um and and you know the hope would be that eventually the values would catch up or the development would occur so that they could recoup more of their investment. the the piece that generally does get offered to investors is like a longer tax runway. So, a district what you're approving is a a district that could issue bonds for up to 31 years,

but that the maximum tax term would be 40 years from the date of imposition for that bond. And what that means is if like you said, if you miss for a few years, you have a recession that in year 31, 32, 33, etc., the district would levy those taxes beyond the maturity date to try to make the investors whole, but after that 40 years, the district's no longer authorized to impose the tax um and the bonds would be deemed discharged. And so that would mean the investors are likely, you know, if there's a long recession, 10ear recession, something like that, investors are very unlikely to get repaid. So, after the 40-year period, they collected what was the agreement, and then they're just going to have to lick their wounds and and have some sort of tax write off for uh for the amount they didn't get repaid. So, there's protections for the property owners in that cap on the tax rate and that there's an end date. You know, there's districts in other parts of the country where that snowball just continues to grow and there's no discharge. So, we built in a protection to make sure that someday, you know, we would discharge. 40 years is a long time, but at least there's a a definitive end date. So, that's that's how the the mill rate cap um and the end date would help protect the property owners.

All right. And then just clarification, what what does it have any impact on the city's credit or bonding?

No. So, this is, you know, under under statute. Um, this is clearly a separate entity. Um, it's it's really clear in statute that the debts of the district are solely that of the district, that they're not a debt of the city as the creating entity or of the state or any other political subdivision. And then separately the investors um the investors are put on notice in the bond documents and the offering document that they use to decide if they want to buy the bonds really clearly in you know four or five places and in bold is going to say again the only you know the only entity pledging revenues the only person you can look to for repayment is the district. It won't be the city or the county or the state. So everybody's put on notice. Um there have the you know the state auditor has raised the question of whether PIDs would be considered a component unit of the cities and counties that create them. Um I know there's been a lot of discussion lately because some alerts have have gone out. Um you know I've worked with with the city staff and city attorney here uh to remove some of the factors that the that the auditor was using there. that's why this board would be self-appointing going forward. Uh we've removed any reporting requirements. Uh just some of those things just to make it really clear that the city is not controlling this district going forward. So, you know, in my view that would take you outside of the the consideration of being a component unit. I'm not an accountant, but that's you know, that's kind of our analysis. I have a silly question. Well, I can get silly. Brigham City owns parcels within that district. Um, Brigham City Corp is not subject to the

same taxing as that. Yeah, that's tax exemp. That's correct. Is that clear? Yep. No, no change in your exemption status. Yep. Did you have something? Uh yeah. Are there timelines built in on when the infrastructure has to be built? So there's there's not any any requirements dictated on when they would have to complete improvements. No, that's that's not currently contemplated in any of the documents

to the developer because they're bonded. I mean, honestly, great question, Council Member Jensen. something I really probably haven't spent any time thinking about. I think on that subject specifically though, there's current city codes that are already in place with the requirements of public infrastructure or anyone to receive a certificate of occupancy. So I mean I I think if the concern is a portion of a roadway or portion of a storm drain line or sewer line or whatever that might be our our codes will still govern no matter what on any certificate of occupancy or any development related to anything such as that. So obviously through a development process um you know a normal development process of the city there's escrow held um for public infrastructure to be um developed and you know obviously the funding by which that public infrastructure is going to be developed in a in a situation dealing with here is going to be a little bit different from normal but all of those developments t must take place before um essentially like a final plat is approved. So all of the normal processes by which normal development happens or any type of development happens for that matter will not be circumvented through a public infrastructure district. All the city codes policies that govern that will stay in place um through our normal processes. Once we're satisfied, it will have a motion to open a public hearing. We have a motion to open a public hearing specific to the resolution for the creation of the Aven Shore Public Infrastructure District by Council Member Smith. Do we have a second?

Second. We have a second by Council Member Jeff. Uh roll call into this. Okay. Okay. All those in favor?

Any opposed? Thank you. I invite those that would like to comment specific to the creation of the Aven Shores P to please come to the podium. Please state your name. What's that? Oh, we state your name, where you live, and we'd love to hear from you from up to three minutes. I'm Paul Roberts and live on Fifth West here in Bigham City. uh I have a background in uh fisheries and aquaculture and so on. My concern about the area of the uh district is that there's number one there are waters there's irrigation coming from springs up of the railroad track that have been kind of Oh, let's just put the pipe in. Uh, ad hoc fixes and modifications. And there's still water rights out there. And as you get further west by the freeway, there are subbing areas that kind of one here a dry area, another wet area, and so on. uh those may be considerable considered as wetlands or streams. The uh lands of the United States rules are under review and may be loosened or tightened uh probably by January. So, and the whole area out there is uh

shaky quaky problems. Uh if there's a big earthquake, the whole area will liquefy. Uh which means that there's going to have to be some tight uh restrictions and designs uh for liquefaction. And I noticed most of the businesses out there, the bu buildings have put six feet of rock underneath their foundation to isolate from liquefaction and earthquake shifting. The u uh water rights and the stream beds have all got to be defined out there. Uh everything from the freeway uh to the railroad track clear down to the uh 11 South should all be reorganized with the uh help and assistance of the water rights people and of the state so that uh the development is rational and utilizes uh water. And of course, as a fish farmer, I keep thinking, hey, there's water there. I want to build a fish farm. But, uh, there's also with the liquefaction, water rides, uh, stream bed modification. Uh, I did talk to Mr. Rasmuson of the water right water stream bed modification and said he's keeping a watch on it. Thanks Paul.

Guess I'll get up. Uh Ben Sohol bring city an address or anything like that. Okay. Just bring him. Um, so, uh, I do like this structure better than others that I've seen, uh, previously. Um, I do have some questions though. Um, one, how many, uh, children is this projected to bring into the school system? Secondly, have you consulted with the school board uh to determine what that's going to do to the school system and if that's going to raise our taxes on their end even more than they already have. Um I also um obviously there are some co the P is going to be paying for the infrastructure cost which great I I love that. Um, but what about the ongoing costs? Will the people who are moving into that area be able to pay for the ongoing cost of taking care of the arts that are going to be there uh for any extra uh police and emergency uh systems? Uh are they going to be able to cover that cost or are we going to have to raise taxes on the whole city in order to pay for those things as well? So, those are just some things that I uh after looking at the setup um I have. And I don't know if the the map that was sent out with all the colors on it is going kind of a set thing or if that's really malleable and um and could be something completely different. Um I'm not a huge fan of putting in a bunch of town homes. Um but that's a minimal part of the map from what I saw. Most of it's seems to be single family homes, which I totally agree with. I like that. Um I just want to make sure that we're not

growing too fast for what this community can uh can absorb. Um just like, you know, with immigration, we don't want too many people coming in because we can't assimilate them quickly enough. We don't want too many people coming in because we can't absorb the costs. So that those are just some of the concerns I have, some of the questions I have. Um, but I do think that this is a better development than other developments that uh have been approved previously. Thank you. Thank you. Larson, Brian City, Utah. Um, I am not really terribly familiar with what they're doing out there. However, the number of homes and things they're proposing to provide and develop there. I would encourage the city to pay very close attention to the Army Corps of Engineers and put in a strong out um relationship what you expect to have happen there because living here for 55 years and living with the water watching where the water goes it goes where it wants you. tell us and I I think that we in our family have experienced this with the creek on various occasions and the water taking its course and if we're going to be putting I don't know what is it how many hundred of houses we're going to put out there and I have in my mind right now an example prime example of some place in the city that they thought it was going to be real smart to put light industry and that thing turned into the biggest wet hole and I said, "Oh, no, no, no, no. There's no water

here. Then why did he put in a serpentine drain?" I asked him. No answer. And that piece of property now, as far as its sole purpose in life to be agriculture, has been damaged and it will take it several years to recoup and regroup. And I I hate to say that we would put people in homes and families without going to the very end degree that we can to verify that it's going to be a safe and a productive thing to do and that people will not be left responsible for excess cost to support themselves and fix the damages. And I think we owe that to them try to do that and I don't know the success rate on these is it PIDs? Thank you. Don't know my acronyms. Uh but it it sounds to me like I think there was one site in Brigham City where they were having two or three of these put in, but suddenly they went away and nobody could tell me why. Suddenly today I understand why because apparently the cost of the development became that what they couldn't do and they couldn't make it work right. So I don't know where we can find examples of PIDs with situations like our city and our place of doile but I think we ought to do the very best we can and push it just as far as we can to make sure it's by it will say and that it's the right thing to do. Thank you.

Thank you. So if I if I could um I think Derek we we have seen there's at least one or two cities that have been using PIDs for residential have been seeing success. Would you mind talking about that for a second?

Yeah, I think obviously through the state of Utah they're becoming more and more popular. Um, and obviously I think Brigham City, it's been about two years ago that we first adopted the first public infrastructure in Brian City and Miss Larson's 100% correct. There hasn't that has not been triggered and none of the public infrastructure in that area started. It's significantly different than the one that's on the agenda tonight that's in a 100% industrial um manufacturing zone within the city. And the specific reason it hasn't been pul uh triggered at this point in time is company that was going to locate there uh obviously changed her mind and and there wasn't a a a transaction with that company that was going to locate there. But as far as on a residential setting um obviously through city managers conferences and a lot of stuff that Nicole and I go to um they're they're becoming something that is happening a lot within the state of Utah. um bringing bringing cities first. Obviously residential public infrastructure requests that we've received as a city um obviously through legal counsel a lot of consulting with other city managers. Cedar City is some the city that started doing these quite regularly that I've been in contact with their city manager and their legal counsel making sure we're doing the right thing in our contract and documents here. It's it's you know I like I said a minute ago it's a it's a unique opportunity. um to fund public infrastructure that may otherwise be funded by current residents of the city. Frankly, I think traditionally in the past that's how it's been funded inside a city. It's the whole city that builds those roads. I mean, obviously we have impact fees in certain situations in certain scenarios, but a lot of times those things um are funded over long periods of time and road improvements, road development. Obviously, we received some funding from the Wasashron Regional Council for Regional Roads, which 1200 West is, but

you know, many many years um through those processes and here we see a unique opportunity to get a a pretty pretty significant portion of 12 West on the south side of Forest Street, you know, hopefully over a year or two period. And you mentioned uh uh one of the things that Mr. Soho brought up and that was uh paying for the extra police, the extra things that's uh the impact fees that the city has adopted and that that we have will pay. That's what the impact fees pay for is the police, fire, parks. That's that's what pays for that and that's what impact fee and they're specific to that. Those had to be identified uh before now. And obviously there's ongoing property tax with any type of development. the property tax is sign significantly going going to change from an agricultural to you know a residential lot and it's always you know that's the that's the 100% the world that I live daily is you know as a city grows how do you pay for you know your general fund essentially type services fire police parks wreck uh libraries all of those things that that a city does um that are mostly funded by property tax sales tax and and those types of things. So um the density of that development obviously changes what how your infrastructure is paid for. So I I think one of the questions mayor was the the density um the current zoning and this was done about a month ago in city council meeting um when we adopted the P district plan district for this area. Um the current current general plan, the current zone actually allows for seven units the acre um for everything that we're seeing in this that the current applicant on this is just over six units per the acre. Um so obviously you know your your property tax per acre essentially is a little bit higher than you know 100% single family or you know even lower one unit per the acre that we

see in resident or more rural residential or you know we've even got places where you've got one residential unit per five acres. So obviously that density um affects your property tax and your ongoing maintenance of the general fund services that a city provides. Not to mention you have an increase in sales tax more people with more people and you have an increase in utility. Yeah. Great point. I think we're still in public comments. Yeah, we can back and forth. I know you three you guys three minutes is up. Good point. I'm done. Okay.

Remember that those property owners will be paying their regular property tax. Oh yeah, 100%. and then contact.

That's it's important to note also one of uh Mr. Soholt's questions. Uh for the last 18 months to two years, uh the mayor of Bringham City and Tmont have been invited to uh several meetings with the school board where they've asked what we're seeing with with development inquiries. So they are aware of the Avenor development in intimately aware intimately aware. Yes. Uh and they're uh it's uh so being aware of that. Yes, they are. Uh I want to make abundantly clear at this point that the city council and the school board are distinctly individually independently elected bodies. One is not chartered or have the ability to tell the other what to do. The fact that we've been meeting together for well over two years to uh to inform them of what we're seeing has been purely out of out of consideration and courtesy. We we've been able to generate a familiarity and a bond there friendship that allows them to ask me questions and ask us questions of the city so they can do their best ability to plan. It also needs to be abundantly clear that the school district is always always going to be reactive. Not anyone in this room and especially in including the elected city council would ever pay for a bond in 2025 to build a school that isn't needed until 2020, 2030, 2035. That's absurd. We're already complaining about the bond that we're building right now for schools that are needed now. And so I just need it to be abundantly clear in Brigham City Council that neither one of those elected bodies can tell the other what to do and we need to make sure we understand that. Council, do you have any other questions? I think we had a gentleman.

Did you The public hearing is still open. We're just allowed to have a back and forth and answer questions. Would you like the public to comment? Uh Jake Barker, I live in Bum. I appreciate the back and forth. I'm glad you guys are answering questions. So, um I'm not against development. I I think it's needed. Obviously, people my age need houses um new places to live. I've heard mention of, you know, potential parks there in in the area. Maybe a regional park. Um I'm somewhat familiar with the Firefly uh development down in Eagle Mountain. I think that's a PID as well. Um, you know, they're putting a lot of money into parks in that development specifically. I think pits presented quite an opportunity to uh the broader community to gain those types of assets like parks. Um, I guess my question would be the impact fees specific to parks and wreck. Are they the same within this pit as they would be outside of the pit?

Yes, it's a city impact. Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. Um I know sorry I don't mean to interrupt you. This may be something you bring up, but those impact fees build the park. They do not maintain the park. That the city Yeah, they transferred over and the city pays to maintain it. Right. That brings up another question within here. If a park is built, would the developer build it and then transfer or does the money get transferred and the city is responsible for the developer? The developer will build it as part of the project. Yeah.

Um and then I'll find another question. So I noticed also in the city impact fees that it's almost half the parks and rack impact fee for a multif family versus a single family. I think it's like 2500 versus like 4600. Can you guys explain that? Because it to me it seems like if I live in a multif family unit I'm much more likely to use the park whereas if I have a yard I'm a single family home. I have a yard. My kids can play in the yard. like what's the logic there? Typically, and can take you, but he can correct me. That's what we'll do.

Typically, those multif family developments are required to have an element of a park or a green space. And so, that's probably the dis the the displacement of those. Derrick can correct me. If he doesn't, then this is the first time I've been right on. There's always a chance, right? I I I mean it's simple fact matter with impact fees is we've followed the state code what is allowed through they're called erus so equivalent residential unit that we have in our system the multifamily unit is only allowed a certain percentage of a single family dwelling and those those are determined by state code and cities adopted what is allowable through state code

and is that broken down to the individual elements as well like you could like sewer and go so that's all determined Yeah. Paul per state code. Yep. Good question. Got it. Um, anyhow, I I think that the main point I don't know what time is at this point, but the main point, what's that? We're giving you extra time. You're asking some good questions.

The main point I'm just trying to look at is how can how can we as a community leverage this development to gain some some assets that will benefit not just the those within the pit, but also outside. I know that I think it was last year there was a survey done, a big survey at Utah State campus to to look at what is needed within the community, parks, transportation, etc. I can't remember who I spoke to, but but there were two areas identified specifically as lacking in parks, and it was the northeast corner and the southwest corner. Right? So, now you can potentially try and claim that the the ball fields are parks, but they're not really, you know, they're they're ball fields. They're not really a park. So, is there an opportunity to gain a true regional park through this and not just a hey, we've got a retention pond that we're calling a park because we all know that's not a park. That's a that's a green space that they have to make to retain the water. So, these are great questions. I guess my understanding of that is that the money as was said needs to remain in that P.

Right. Right. And I'm not suggesting goes outside, but within that it still creates a regional. I mean, in the map that that's been uh sent around. I think the the city on property is included, right? The the the ball fields and then the property adjacent to it. I mean, that's in the pit, right? So, what an opportunity that that might exist there.

True. And that will as it develops that those ongoing phases will determine how it develops out as it I would I would say the other uh probably answer to your question as far as leveraging is they are building out the entire width of 1200 West. and the the infrastructure system and also the public trail system that will be down there. So, it's it's being leveraged pretty heavily to their to their credit. They're shores and and the developer there is is intent on building something that not only they can be proud of, but bringing city and residents can be proud of as a as a as a development. We get a we get a major road that major I I think I heard can use but not have to pay for,

right? I I think the number I heard for for Firefly for per ERU in uh money spent towards recreational was 9,000 which is a lot and it wouldn't even come close to that for this right. So it's the bigger development probably than than we're getting here. Um no it's it's a great question. Let me just tell you the philosophy. You know, once those parks are built on the back of the rest of the city to maintain it once it's feeded over to the street. So, right now parks that we have is as you've noted, uh they're undermaintained because we we just can't afford to to upgrade a lot of things. And so, that's a discussion that we've had philosophically. That's why it's more pocket parks. You know, there is a regional park that's identified there. It's uh we have that option to to do those things, but they are developing pocket parks that are much easier to maintain because they're smaller and they're benefit to not only that community that even though they are in avian shores, but the entire community would be able to go down there along the trail network and take advantage of those parks as well, those little pocket parks.

Yeah. Um I have one more question, but I can't remember. So, sorry, I'm talking too much. No, no, this is good. I I was hoping for some back and forth, so thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Any any more comments? Council, seeing as though there doesn't appear to be any more comments, we would entertain a motion to close public hearing. So moved. Have a motion by council member Jensen. Do we have a second? Second. Second by council member Hip. All those in favor? I. Any oppose? Thank you. The public hearing on the uh consideration of this resolution is now closed. We can now have an action which would be to approve or not approve the resolution of Avenore public infrastructure district as an independent district authorizing and approving a governing documenting a board of trustees and authorizing other documents in connection therewith. moved.

Thank you. We have a motion to approve the resolution by council. Do that council. No, I might be ready. Now, uh by council member Smith, do we have a second? Second. Second by council member Jeff. This will be a roll call vote and we'll start with council member Jeff and move to his left. Jefferson is I

Brian is I. Thank you. It appears to be unanimous. Thank you, council. We will move on now to our public comments difference. Again, as I outlined, you can come up and for three minutes, we'd love to hear from you. Uh whatever you'd like to uh to tell us about. There won't be any interaction in this one. We will be taking notes. If there's anything needs to come back, we can direct you to staff. Uh we will do that. But we invite you to come to the podium. This is for Brigham City residents or owners of property in Brigham City. You can run for for elected office in Brigham City and we would love to please state your name. This is a long discourse. State your name where you live and please take up to three minutes. Paul Roberts on Fifth West. First I'll give my annual uh Pioneer Pond report. Um, it's continuing to have uh aquatic ve vegetation problems from recycling all the nutrients that are in the pond. The only thing that controlled it this year was a big strong north wind that turned the water over, brought up the cold water, and killed off all the floating stuff. The other thing that's going on, it's quacky. all the ducks. There's been a lot of interesting changes. The u there have been at least three or four broods of up to five ducks or baby ducks that have disappeared. I don't know whether it's the uh dut protection association or big catfish, big bass, uh things like corrants and so on, but they're disappearing. They some of them only last five days.

Um and the duck feeders are still spreading food on the sidewalk. that's littering in my box. Um, since I walk over them every every day, um, there's a lot of, uh, things that go on there. Um, I'd like to see, uh, better utilization. I hope they make a path for uh the snow plow to get from the uh road parallel to the uh uh swimming pool over to uh the uh Forest Street sidewalk. Otherwise, this snowflower isn't going to go and we'll have to slug slug through the snow. The people that walk, if you just I noticed there's 20 30 set the footprints when that we had the snow. Um, I noticed something on the paper about u big fee hikes for soccer. My good uh player here, Matt. Uh, I think we uh are we discriminating against soccer because they're not a city sport or are we just soaking the poor? I hope that uh we can continue. Uh oh. 1200 west. When is the schedule to connect it down to 11 South?

Thank you. Thank you, Paul.

Hi, Kelly Oakley from Garden City. Um, I have a couple of concerns. one um during the public hearing we it was talked about that there was going to be a new like a new part for the general public in this new subdivision and um or the ID and it was stated that we have limited funds to maintain our parts now. So that leads me to believe so we're going to get another part or maybe another part and then eventually y'all are going to ask us for our taxes to go up again which I mean tax increases are are insane right now. Um and I know that the schoolboard thing didn't have anything to do with you guys. I'm just saying that um you know it's getting to a point some for some people that you know their taxes are are high. Um the other thing that I had well there's two other things. One these are things that I've just seen about Brigham City. Um, one is the nuclear plant that that was uh announced. Um, and which that's going to bring a gazillion more people to, you know, Brigham City. And I know that, you know, growth is inevitable, but I moved to Brigham City because it was a small city and um there's a big city over here uh in 20 minutes down the road. There's another big city 20 minutes up the road in Logan. And um I enjoyed that this was just a little pocket community.

Um so my concern is and I mean with the nuclear plant more once again more people, more subdivisions, more people. And the third thing was um I just saw it today and I know that Brigham City owns Manway Reservoir and Trail, but then I saw that they're turn they're talking about turning that into a state park. Um and my question was did y'all know anything about that going on? And um my concern with the state park once again more people um and these like I go I use the trail system over there because we don't really have one here in Brigham um almost daily in the spring, summer and fall but if there's state park I'm going to have to go pay go on it you know and now I go on it for free and Um, I like that. I mean, I like to just get in the car, run up there, and run home. Anyways, those were my concerns. Um, I'm not a real eloquent speaker. I've been up here before, but um I just that's all I got.

You did fine. Thank you.

Yeah. Um, if you just state your name again.

Yeah, Jake Barker. I live on the West. Um, so I I agree. I like the small town feel of of Bergen City. Um, I'm from Lehi. I lived in Lehi before it was Lehi of today. Um, I grew up in the north end of Lehi where a lot of the growth has happened and it was all fields. Grew up on a farm. I appreciate the balcon field. Just adding to that. Um, but I also understand that growth is inevitable and and that comes. Um, specifically I wanted to just mention as we talk about potentially that 1,200 West uh connection. Someone brought that up and connecting it into 1100 South. Um I live down just just near the um health department and so I've seen a few different iterations of the plan that potentially have a connector coming from that spur over into that neighborhood and I would just emphatically ask that that not happen that that there's some more thoughtful way of kind of getting that traffic up into a non- neighborhood area. I can just see. I mean, I think about myself. If I'm if I'm sitting in traffic on 1100 trying to head up towards Logan, but you know, I need to go into Brigham and I have to wait until I get to the light, I can turn left and just zip through a neighborhood. You're going to get plenty of people zipping through a neighborhood, right? So, so just I would just ask that there be a real thoughtful approach to where that potential connection on the east side of the tracks ends up happening off of that spur so that it doesn't end up dumping a bunch of traffic into neighborhood streets. I already get people, like I said, I live on 800. people instead of going up Fifth West, which is the natural, they'll turn there by by um Old Gris Mill, then head up 800. For some

reason, they it it just becomes a thorough affair. I get big trucks driving. I work from home, so I look out my window all the time. I get big trucks driving by. I don't understand that. Um you know, I get we can't control where everyone drives, but we can thoughtfully place those roads. So, anyhow, thanks you. My name is Billy Marshall. I um live in Nanoway and I have property of Bergam. So both of those affect me. My property borders the lake in Manoway. So I do have questions with that. But I also own property here in Brigham that is right in the middle of Aven Shores. I own that strip straight down from 400 West. So as you're widening the road for 1200 West, is that going east or west is a question that I'm wondering.

Widening? Would would it be widened 1200 West? Because you're saying you're improving it. You mean widened on the east side and the west side?

Yeah. Is it going to happen on the east or the west side or or both or because that would affect my property there? The other question I got is I would like to propose an idea to Brigham City. Um those little towns in northern Utah that has massive flags like Cudon. I don't know if you guys have seen that. I would be willing to do fundraisers and everything. I think it would be so cool to put a massive flag up on the top of the null that Brian City owns. If that's something I would raise the money for it. Oh, hold on. In Manowway.

In Manowway. Oh, gotcha. So, I would raise the money and pay care of the expenses of that. it would just be located on Brian property, but that would affect if that's going to be a state park. So, I don't know if that's something that Brigham City would entertain. I would gladly raise the money so it was a zero cost to to do something like that because I think that we should be proud of our country and our nation and proudly display that American flag.

Thank you. Can we close public comments? Anybody need How you doing? Good. How are you doing? Good.

My name is Lane Henderson. Uh I'm a resident of Brrigy City up on 6 East uh adjacent to the cemetery. I apologize. We didn't hear the hearing portion of the meeting. So if you guys covered what's going on up there, uh I apologize asking you to revisit it for me. And uh so yeah, I've got some concerns about the removal of the of the uh lilac bushes. And I don't did you guys cover that at all in the in the hearing portion. Uh it seems like we didn't get any notification at least I don't recall seeing anything and I I'm pretty diligent in reading we take the box order paper. So was that brought to this residents of the city at all before that took place? You know what's the plan? This really isn't a back and forth because it hasn't been noted so that everybody in the city can hear about it and talk about it. So, we're just taking comment lane.

Okay. So, a couple of concerns I have obviously with our exposure to the cemetery. We live on the like I say on 60 so we're on the east side of the cemetery and our exposure to that property is with our elevated residence. It's I was a little concerned when they took the evergreens out several years ago, but I thought, well, the lilocks there will still give some shielding from view or obscurity to the internal workings of the cemetery for those of us that live next to it. My concern is if we're not going to do anything other than remove those those um what are apparently diseased bushes and I I think there's still some question whether or not that's actually the case but that as it may uh I I would really like to understand if a lot of thoughtful consideration has taken place to to to do to to one what are you going to do to provide the security for the cemetery and I'm, you know, living in that proximity for 41 years now. Um, and and we've got a good view into the cemetery so we can see traffic there at all hours of the day and night. Uh, how you going to handle security? One, are you going to replace it with a fence? And if so, will it be uh provide uh an equivalent amount of obuscation of the property. So it's not, you know,

hopefully it'll be a situation where whatever you put in place will will shield from view the property. uh you know some somewhat equivalent to what the the bushes have have done over the years. So I'll mention that and then uh the other thought that I had is did you do any research or will you do any research uh when you determine what what will be in its place um the impact of property values if uh you know if that cemetery ends up being more fully exposed from the street view and certainly from my property view. Is that going to impact my the value of my home? So, those are my concerns about what you've got going on there. I know there's been a lot of uh back and forth on Facebook on, you know, people concerned about that. Uh that's that brings to mind another consideration or a concern on my part. Uh both my parents are interred at the cemetery. uh right on they're they're on the very last row to the to the west and right now their head stone is completely exposed. In fact, my wife had got all of her Christmas decorations put together to go put it over there. And I says, "You're not going to put her over there now cuz that right now their their headstone's about 7 ft away from the road all completely exposed. So I I I wouldn't dare put anything of value out there right now. So uh anyway, give it some serious thought

consideration on those points. um and who right by not only us but our our family members that are there in the cemetery as well. Thank you. Thank you, Lane. Also see as though one has had a chance to express like anyone's getting up now. We'll close public or public comment. Move on to council member comments. Start with council member Hip and move to his right has which is fine if you don't. just I just uh I'm just pleased that we had this many people who have made comments and I could tell the mayor and those who participated in the back and forth really enjoyed that. But as you saw that's not always the case. We're not always able to do that because of some constraints. You can always reach out to us individually and talk to us about what we're aware of. Happy to do that. But thank you so much for the way you've approached it, how you've addressed your concerns and your thoughts. Certainly appreciate this is the way that process works. Thank you, Council Council Member Jensen. Second what Dave said, it's always nice to have a lot of interaction. Um, also I had some public feedback that the Christmas village looks really good this year and we're excited about that. It does look good this year. Looks good every year, frankly. Better. It's fun hearing the kids out here. I don't know if you could hear them. They're out here just hooting and hollering. That means it's they're having fun. Thank you, Matt. Council member Smith.

I don't have anything. Council member Tro,

I haven't had to let's see with BR Bear River Association of Governments just released today for nonprofit the social security block grant um which is available for box elder cash rich county um nonprofits. So just notify you that deadline is January 15th and those notices will be going out very soon. I think today. And um I guess I just want to say that I think um as a council member there are a few things that um I can do better at and I think that we as a council I can ask that we do better at. And um I'm asking that um to to reach out to us and um when things come up, let us um give you some background information about things that may be popping up on social media. Um we can't make any super big decisions with you, but we can at least communicate with you and give you a little bit of the background information. that things come up. Um I do think that um I would like to see the cemetery plan with the bushes. I'd like to see that um maybe in a little bit more communication on um with the state park and then continuing the the information that we've been sharing with the um nuclear hub. Thank you, Mr. Jeff. Jeff's great day. Thank you for your time. We will move. I had a bunch of stuff I was going to address.

Yes, we heard enough of you today. Well, I mean, if that's the cons of the council, I'll forego.

Go ahead, Mayor. I told you to talk. Um, this was uh wonderful having so many people here and and commenting. Um, the uh a couple things. Uh, appreciate Mrs. Oakley. Uh, you're absolutely right with uh with more parks. Sometime in the future, even without parks, there's going to be tax increases. Fortunately, there's inflation all around us with employment, with supplies. That's just a fact of life. I I wish that there was somehow that the government could have immunity, be able to set a price back in 1960, be able to buy wire and and asphalt and employments and that those employees could somehow have some type of immunity so that when they needed a house and needed groceries, they could buy it at that same rate. Uh the reality is is that's that's unattainable. Uh, with that being said though, I can tell you that for the 12 years that I've been at this rostroom and was here and before we did the remodel was over there, thoughtfulness of city council knowing that uh as they consider whether or not or how much to uh or the need for a tax increase uh you have a very very uh first representation here among the council from uh parents that have uh set incomes that don't increase the single single parents to uh business owners and and the such and so I think we're really well represented here on the roster with a a wide swath of of our community and I appreciate that and they are very open and honest in those discussions as well as our staff in those discussions as to deciding whether it's a how much it needs to go up if it needs to go up and and the reasons why I I would uh invite the the uh community to interact and and attend more starting probably in about April and May. That's when we uh I present my budget to council and then there's work sessions that are scheduled to discuss the

reasons why if there's going to be a tax increase or the reasons why the budget looks the way it is. That's where you'll get the information as to what what we're doing and the wise and the hows. And I would encourage you to put that on your calendars and tell your friends so we can be informed. Um, it's interesting. One thing that I've learned in the 12 years that I've been on council in city government, and I haven't always been this way, nor did I ever think that I'd be the mayor. In fact, I remember being very uh smug uh probably 15 years ago as there was a hole that developed out on three 200 north out in front of my business and remember standing at the ro at the podium right there as a city citizen, very self-righteous saying, "The city has put a hole in my road and they better darn well get it fixed." Come to find out, it wasn't the city that put a hole in my road. But the next day, Mr. Tyler Pugsley, who is now our public director, was directed by the mayor at the time to go up and fill that hole the city did not uh make in my road. So, I appreciated that and and I would say that everyone up here understands uh the concerns that citizens have because we were once you and we will be you again. Um, one thing I've learned is if a city isn't growing a little bit or a lot, then you're dying and homes infrastructure are not infinite in their lifespan and there's inflation that occurs over time. If there is no growth, the replace of that infrastructure falls on the citizens that have always been here. So, they pay for it once, they pay for it twice, they pay for it five times. If it remains a small group, and I'm not an advocate of growth, but I am a realist that it's going to happen. Um, you're not growing to uh to accommodate that, then taxes will go up even more on stuff you've already paid for because you're the only one left there to pay for it. Um, and so as a

mayor, I focus on my biggest focus is on business, bringing business in because we own our own grid and there's ways to to get and receive monies, keep our taxes as low as possible through the recruitment of businesses. Obviously with that, including Nuclear, New Core, uh, Niagara, ENG, Walmart, our grocery stores, there's obviously going to be an influx of employees that are going to need someplace to live. Some drive in and don't live in our community, but enjoy working here. And uh, all of that amounts to some growth. I wish that I could control how much growth is going to happen. Instead, what we do is we try and keep one thing that I that I appreciate that you said small town, but feel. We've been drilling down for four years now at staff. What is that feel? To use a cooking term, and I only know this because my son who wrestled, I don't know why, but during wrestling season, he would always watch cooking shows even though he couldn't eat. It seems oxymoronic, and I would tell him that. But how do we deconstruct? That's a food term. Look it up. deconstruct that feel of small town and then be able to infuse that even with the growth that we're getting. I think Aven Shores and we just approved a P is one way to do that. We were we were able to get in on the planning of that. We had a voice in there and uh not not a big voice. They didn't have to listen to us all the time, but they did to their credit and were able to participate in that development so that it met the the the feel that we were looking for as our community extends to the land that's available. I wish that Brigham City could own all of the land. That way, we could dictate all of the growth, but unfortunately land owners when they want to sell their land, we get to deal with who they sell it to. Perhaps it's

another farmer. Perhaps it's a developer. I don't get to tell them who to who to sell to. Um, state parks. Yes, we've been talking about this for a long time. Uh, within Brigham City. Um, why? Because even though you walk on the trails for free, you're not walking on the trails for free. Your tax money is going to groom those trails, make those trails. As a state park, it's envisioned that uh those fees will cover that instead of your tax dollars. Um, we're still in talks, but uh, we were almost as surprised to see that headline as you were because we're still in talks. But the governor needed to announce his budget and what he's going for. We actually have a meeting, I don't remember. I don't remember if it's this week or next. So, we're continuing those talks. Uh, just for an example, everyone complains about the algae blooms up there. Well, in order you don't, but the mayor up there and just about everybody else does that visits that costs tens of thousands if not go to $100,000 to treat that yearly that the taxpayers of Brigham City would be on the hook for if we continue to do it. State Park uh is a possible solution, but again, we're in talks with that um and what that looks like going forward. We do have a voice in that because we own that. We want to make sure there's a stewardship going forward with that state park that's conducive not only to Brigham City and as the owner of the ground but also our sister community manway and we're not putting any undue burden on them as well. But hopefully they see it as an opportunity. They currently don't have hardly any commercial up there. What a wonderful opportunity for them to get in some small shops to generate some sales tax and work on their own infrastructure up there and uh maybe alleviate a little bit of the uh property tax that has to happen because they don't have industry up there and they don't have business in order to maintain their city. the cemetery. Yes. I don't know if you

notice my name up there, but my name is DJ Bot and I have been in that cemetery, my family and that last name for 135 years. I have a vested interest in that cemetery and making sure it maintains and remains best looking cemetery in the state of Utah. Problem with our cemetery is we're running out of room. We're landlocked. And if we don't do something about the cemetery in expansion in the ways that you're seeing start, we're going to be forced to have two cemeteries. For the last 30 years, I've delivered headstones to cemeter to communities that have two cemeteries. Do you think you're mad about taxes now going to maintain your cemetery? Wait till there's two and you double up staff and water and everything else. So, do we have a set plan yet? No, it's working. Why is it a working plan? Because things evolve. There's products coming out as cremation becomes a more popular uh option. And so, yes, there's a plan. It will be coming for us once we uh finalize it, but it's a work in progress. One thing that's a constant that we do know is we need room. We need room. And if we don't widen the road there, which is part of the plan there on Third West, Third East, unwiden the road.

Unwiden the road. unwiden the road and uh put in additional burial plots. If we don't buy additional property that's close to the cemetery, we will have two cemeteries in this and that's something that somebody who's in the business does not want to see it through our community. Um security came up. Lane, I appreciate your comments there on security, but as a teenager that grew up there and you were a leader of mine, that cemetery had never been sec. We'd run through there and we would relocate the we had a very vibrant decoration relocation program and in fact I I assisted in a sting as a mother and son would go through there and steal to your your comment people's decorations that were and this was probably 15 18 years ago and they would put them back out and they put them on eBay for sale. So those lilocks aren't stopping anybody from doing that. It does beautify it. Yes. And we are making plans to make sure that that is and continues in my opinion who has seen every cemetery in this state if not the top at least the top two or three in the state as far as beauty and conduciveness. That that place is sacred to the mayor of Brigham City and his family and we're going to make sure that when it's done it's done right. Um I think that covers just about everything that I wanted to talk about. I hope I answered some questions. I hope I calmed some nerves. I hope I was bold yet harmless in these declarations. But I can tell you that uh I love Brigham City and so does this council and so do you. And we try our hardest to do our best for it citizens and for our city, not just for 2026, but we're obsessed with looking at 2030, 35, 40. So the things that we are dealing with right now that our

predecessors, no discredit to them, but just as an example, we graduated and I've said this before, I graduated 1988. There was 18,500 people in Brigham City in 1988. We're in 2025. We're barely hitting 24,000 people that 40 some odd years. It's really easy as a f as a as an elected official to think that the growth will never come. But it's upon us and it's going to come fast. And if we're not proactive, we're going to be reactive. And that is no way to plan a city right throughout the state to see where that has happened. Not because of issues or procrastination. That's just how it's happened. We're doing our best. I appreciate your patience. I appreciate you coming to public comment and receiving comment back. And uh we will move on now with our action item number one which is a consideration. This is another comment uh from Mr. Paul Roberts. Hopefully this answers some questions. Consideration of updating recreation pre fee resolution to include soccer programming fees. And we'll invite Chris Horsley which who is our newly minted recreation director. We have poached him from Idaho Falls Idaho. He's a superstar and we're happy to have him.

All right. Should had a drum roll or walk up music on that one.

I should have had a walk up song. Um well uh Mayor Bot and fellow council members, it's a privilege to be here tonight u represent the recreation department fee resolution uh for the adding of soccer fees. Um, prior to diving into some of the specifics, I did want to just highlight some of the impacts um that result from providing programs to a community. Um, and Christina has a slideshow that she's going to pull up. Um, perfect. So, um, Project Play, and I I will be, uh, as quick as I can because I knew it would been long, but, um, Project Play is an init it's an initiative, uh, launched by Aspen Institute Sports and society program, and it's an initiative that believes in the power of sport to build healthy communities. Um, and each year they release a a report. And so in their um state of 2024 report uh you can go ahead and advance the slide. Uh these are just some of the findings that they had in their report that I just think um are important to just briefly. So 35% of females and 41% of males um ages six to 17 participate in core sports on a regular basis. Um, more importantly though, they found that adolescents who play sports um are eight times as likely to play sports um and be active at age 24 uh compared to adolescence who do not. Um, and then they also found that 77% of adults who are 30 or older uh who play sports today played sports as school age children. So there's a statistic there that's not represented. 100% of that 77% of adults get injured at age 30 plus who play sports as well.

That's very that's probably true that influences that. Um so what that does is it just kind of shows an important correlation with activity levels in a whole in adulthood that's tied to youth behavior. Um and then the top sport participation for ages 6 to 12 happen to be basketball, baseball, soccer, and tennis. Um I want to just show you two info slides real quick and then we'll start talking about soccer. So you can go ahead and advance the slide. So this first one, both these in infographics um represent two major impacts again of um sports and recreation programs and communities. So the first one uh just illustrates that active uh youth do better in life. um is it starts out in early childhood and as they grow into adolescence and adulthood, there's just things that uh sport involvement do such as reducing obesity, um increasing test scores, um lowering chronic disease, you know, preventing risky behavior or substance abuse. So the the key here are just the importance is just uh recognizing again how important u recreation programs are to a community and the individual itself. Let me go ahead and advance the slide. The uh next thing is just this illustration that um act or communities are better uh when they're built upon different programs and in initiatives and in infrastructure that uh encourages people to be healthy. And I think that um as community leaders, you would agree that um these characteristics that are in this infographic um embody city and that you hope that uh these characteristics will continue to embody city of the community. Um so uh what what what this data reaffirms is that supporting recreation programs is an investment and a commitment to building

and sustaining a healthy community. The impact that our recreation division has on Brian City is crucial and priceless. And for that, I thank the council and the mayor for your continued support in our efforts to build a healthy Brian city. The mission of Bergen City recreation programs is to provide a variety of quality activities for participants to learn, grow, and have fun creating friendships and memories. Our staff has been considering opportunities that align with our mission. And for that purpose, we are seeking an adjustment to our fee resolution to include soccer. Go ahead and advance the slide. Um, our division is excited to la uh to launch a soccer program this spring. Soccer is a great sport for young kids to get their start. Soccer participation will develop rudimentary motor skills and create a foundation to be successful in additional sport pursuits as they grow up. But more importantly, it's um it's another opportunity to positively impact the social, emotional, mental, and physical health of uh residents and kids in our community. Um so our soccer program, um as you can kind of see through this slide, our soccer program will be introduced through a phased approach with phase one being a totes three to six. that future fall and spring sessions. We will continue to phase in additional divisions from U8 uh through U12. Um this is our goal in terms of what we're shooting for, but we understand and recognize that it could be more. Um and we are more than anxious and able to deal with that. Um, we also intend to offer an adult soccer program as we know that adult programs are desired by the community and the data supports that kids who play sports are likely to play

in adulthood unless they get injured as Mayor Bach pointed out. Um, so um, we are excited to bring these experiences to the community. Um, you can go ahead and advance the slide. The following are the fees that we are uh requesting to implement that are associated with what we are plan on charging uh for the different programs. Um so you can see that our task program is going to be $40 and our U6 program will be $46. Um and then so on and so forth for the different age groups. Um the phased approach is intended to focus on and create quality. We know that if we establish quality experience first with these age groups, we'll have greater impact as we add additional divisions. This allows us to feed future growth with the current participants as they age out from uh different age groups into the next. Um the games are going to be played at the sports complex is where we intend to do this. we will still offer rentals um or rental space to other user groups um based off of um field condition and and field space as it permits. So, we're not doing anything in terms of denying user groups an opportunity. Uh but ours will take priority. Our staff feel strongly about providing a soccer experience um option for our residents and we feel it meets our mission and allows us to have a greater impact on our residents. Thank you for your time and I will answer any questions that you have.

Thank you Chris. Council bombarded

um that one. So from tots to six we have 172 is the goal and when you add up to eight is only 50 more people. So is that am I reading that right? Then the next when you add 10 is another 57 people. Yeah. So what we're projecting and I would say we're projecting conservatively is that um with this phased approach we assume that um half of our U6 uh kids will age out and need a place to play which uh will make up a U8 program um projecting that we would only have um half as many U6 players going to U8 and so that's why it's smaller in that first year. Then in the second year, we would predict that we would have a full U8 program with 12 teams. So in phase two, we're predicting that we'd have, you know, a U8 program with six teams. In phase three, the U8's um fully expand to a projected of uh 12 teams um with the U10s only having about um six teams in it in its phase three. And so that's how we're projecting um that phased approach, which is why it seems like it's very incremental and small. Um and I again I think that those might be conservative numbers. Um but that's what we were kind of projecting on

the projected fees. What are the comparisons between some of the nonprofits that provide similar services locally if you've done some comparisons?

Yeah, so uh we're pretty similar with AYSO. Um, one of the fees associated with AYSO, um, is there's that national membership. So, when you include that, um, we're we're trending slightly below AYSO's prices. Um, when you look at like, uh, Tmont Pen, um, Niply, um, and then, um, believe Farmington was another one that was comparable. Um, we're we're right there in that route of $45, $50.

Thank you. We used to have a pretty good ASO program in Brigham City. That was my kids played in it. Then over the years, the kind of moved away from Brigham City. Wouldn't we rather try to get that back to try and develop our own leagues that make a little bit and it's also I've heard just recently that our football program bring football they moved to Willard. I just heard that I think the last two weeks. Was that the case? When you say move to Willard, what

they're going to play on their fields and not not getting access to field space or I want to go into that tonight. WFL played on the high school field that play used to play down here at the Yeah, they're playing on high played up here at the school. Practices out and they play games on high school. All the games at the high school field. I want to get that's not my point, right?

I'm not here to try to correct the problems of what's going on, but there is a there is something to consider that we have recently. And then you just got here, you probably done, but a lot of our teams and programs, even our comp soccer leagues, don't want to play up here because they don't feel like they're being they don't want to pay the fees to play on their on the soccer park down there. So, they're all going elsewhere. So, I would rather see us focus on trying to come with the resolution and bring some of those teams back or you create something else. And if that's not the case, my my other concern on this is why wait till spring of 2027 to fall 27 to bring in a U10 and U12 in. Why don't you just take advantage of 2026? This is going to be all about soccer. Trust me, I know all about it. take advantage of 2026 and start all of 2026 and run the program.

Yeah. Thank you. Chris, why don't you take the second question? I'll take the first one.

Okay. Um so our um our intention of doing the phase approach is we want to focus on quality and and getting a system down that we feel is effective and a good product and we feel that uh we can do that better uh by starting with you know a smaller age group and perfecting it and then expanding out. my that was hard for me to understand because I have a big background in sport youth sports if your projections are at that level the quality is going to be there because you're not you don't have big numbers to match it you know I mean you're not projecting to have giant league and a giant a lot of kids to play I think your quality will be fine

well to argue not to be argumentative but no I appreciate the consideration it's uh something that we can definitely still consider if field space is the issue then that's one thing that's that's a whole argument that's that makes sense but yeah you have to do the lights you got all that I get okay but there but there's also the opportunity for you if you do see quick success you and and you have a program down not hold to these dates you can

correct yeah We talked about that as a staff that um if we have if if the demand is there and um and our quality is there that um expediting and uh absorbing the demand sooner is definitely on the table. We're not set that it has to be this um all the way stretched out until the spring of 2027. Yeah, I think I think that's this is the basement what's being proposed and there is no cap. the cap is going to come with what we see with the registrations. Correct.

Can you give me an idea of like is this per season and then how many how much how long is the season?

Yeah. So um our tots program is going to be a six week um period and the tots program is not a scrimmage based approach. that is um developing skill with focusing on the number of touches. So doing games and interactive things that develop soccer that's not but in a scrimmage format. Uh trying to focus on fun and just playing with kids playing with kids and they're going to learn soccer out of it. Um whereas the the U6 um program that is a going to be a scrimmage based program. The U6 and up will be an eight um game season. It'll go eight weeks. Um and then um the U6s um we are planning on playing three on three actually. And again that's to keep it small so we have uh more touches as repetition and stuff like that is what's going to drive skill development and going to drive the kids coming back because they actually got to touch the ball. They're not a swarm of eight bees just running around with the ball. So um and then uh and then as you grow uh bigger like the U10s and U12s um those will be uh you uh let's see the U10s um we're looking at doing like 7 V7 and then um U12s. It'll just kind of depend on the number whether we're fully 11 v1 um or where we're at at that point. the adults. Um, we're actually gonna launch as a 7v7 program as opposed to a full 11 v11. Uh, just because I think it on the roster. That's a team.

We're getting to shrink the field down. Yeah, that'll be played on a regard by 40 yard field. I'll put goalie. I think I got kicked into shins when I was seven and I never played. Oh yeah, that's uh that's some of the details of how that will be. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Um this includes practice on the older kids. Uh once a week possible practice and then once a week game.

Yeah. So the younger ones like the U6 um uh those will be practiced right before the game for a portion of time you know 15 20 minutes and then the game that'll be the minimum but we will utilize the field space on other days that if coaches would like additional uh time to practice with their team we'll be able to schedule those uh for them. Um and then uh whereas the U12s U10 and U12s will be uh more your traditional game format and then they would uh practice on another time in the week and adults there will be no practices. We don't want to wear them out before I mean before the game or during the week bring the orange you be the mucus. Yes,

I think Derek was gonna cover

Yeah. C what of Yeah, we didn't answer Council Member Jeffy's first question. So, I think first of all, council member, you know, you know, obviously there's there's a philosophical question with your question is, you know, does Brian City Corporation want to run its own programs or have somebody else to run recreation programs within our corporate limits? And I think, you know, as we've discussed, frankly, this is not a um I talked about this three weeks ago and here it is in front of the council. We've frankly been discussing um running our own soccer programs for longer than than Mayor Ba has been the mayor of Brigham City. So, you know, it's obviously there's there's pros, there's cons, there's back and forth, there's wise, there's why not. It's all of those things. Um, I think, you know, as as we look at what is the future of Brigham City and Brigham City recreation, um, I think the current staff of the city and the current mayor of the city, um, feel that cityrun program, specifically soccer is what we're talking about today, is in the best interest of us as a city and us as our recck program moving forward. And, you know, that that's why it's in front of you. Certainly, the city council makes that decision, not the staff or frankly the mayor. So, you know, I I think there's obviously there's arguments to be made with that specific conversation on both sides of the aisle. And I I certainly am not going to, you know, uh say anything negative about any of the other organizations that have been running a Brigham City and has not run its own city sponsored soccer program. Um I don't know ever frankly and you know maybe you go back enough years but but it's it's obviously been a very long time and and we see the opportunity right now and what we're seeing around us as our city continues to grow that we

feel like it would be best um into the future sponsored by Brigham City Corporation. So obviously city council makes that decision not

I think this kind of ties back to um when the mayor said that we're we're looking for a feel for Brigham City and I think part of that is cityran recreation programs that creates a feel that we're trying to do as as we grow and that's always been something that's been important to me growing up here in Brigham City in a lower income atmosphere and our our recreation program is you know help our put our whole neighborhood with these lowcost type and then as I've grown up I've seen how kids can develop and then can continue into the more competitive league and and and and in increase right to where we have amazing sports programs at Boxfelder High School and Bear River High School because it started early, you know, um with these these programs. And so I think that there's a place for each and every single one of those types of things. and Brigham City running their own recreation program is an important piece to making sure all of our youth get the opportunity to play sports. Thank you. You know, as I as I as I sit and I think it is important that we have a you have a suckers waiting for kids to play. Doesn't take much very Yeah. Yeah. you throwing a pair of tennis shoes and shin guards, Robin. Sorry, that's

traumatizing. Uh, and off you go. Um, I think it's important in my opinion that our city does that. I also think it's very important where we have other programs mentioned that it can take those kids that that come from a wreck and develop them into into really good soccer players in comp leagues. We have good organizations that are eating. Now, I worry a little bit about our field usage and those not being able to to use it. I ran in the same situation trying to coach my kids in basketball or find a basketball practicing. I would I would hate for that to happen with our comp leagues not not being able to have fields um where we're using the the sports complex. I know we have other soccer fields available. um as well. Just I would hope that we would work be able to work with those groups to continue that tradition forward. It's progressing those groups and stopping their their progress as well. Really, I know that's not necessarily our responsibility, but I think that's good community

in my opinion. I I agree with Councilman Smith. That's that's a thing that we've been facing the last few years is a lot of our leagues, like I said earlier, are leaving Brigham City. And if those who want to play comps, you're leaving Brigham City to play in them. Um it could be football, it could be basketball, it doesn't matter the sport. A lot of them are elsewhere because of issues. Somehow we got to figure that out. Got to come to the table. We got to say, look, understand those teams are made up so much to bring in city residents. Why are they going outside our city limit to play? We got to figure out how to figure out how to do that. Come to resolution. And I know we talked about field usage and fees. That should be fair. I'm totally on board with that, but you know, somehow everything's negotiable. And sometimes you look at optics, it's like, well, if you look at we don't have AYSO here anymore. We don't have a comp soccer program anymore. Oh, United decided to go play somewhere else. So, well, bring us kind of build their own scratch. I'm okay with because why not take advantage of it. But Tom soccer is a whole another level. So many kids that box out of United States playing soccer and they're not happy with Brigham City. An interesting philanthropical question, put it that way. It's not philanthropic.

It is because Brigham City donates to the Bear River Water Conservancy District. We take care of the wreck of the communities around us, provide fire services. This falls right in with that with those comp leagues. uh they're not completely made up of Brigham City residents and the field use fees that came to council that everyone agreed on reflect that when you displace Brigham City residents from Brigham City parks paid by those residences there's going to be a a fee charged and that was agreed upon if they choose to leave because they don't they they could those comp those comp teams that that aren't in Brigham City anymore aren't in Brigham City because they didn't want to pay to reserve and displace Brigham City public for their practice They could show up at a park whenever they want. Anybody can in practice if they want to reserve it. There's going to be a fee involved. Those those parks are paid for by Brigham City taxpayers. And so there needs to if they're going to displace Brigham City residents or the public in a public park and those fees that's why the fee resolution came. And so it's yeah, it's it is a philanthropic to an extent. That's a bad word probably, but uh we've been subsidizing the communities around us and we're not trying to make it uh to to get back what we've been doing, but we are trying to make it fair. I know that when it was proposed before, the other uh communities around us and their field use fees were were uh studied and uh frankly I I feel like those those teams have left because they weren't getting it for free anymore. And I can guarantee you they're paying where they're at now because we've heard that. rather than philanthropic. They're nonprofits, but they need to earn. They're a business. They pay employees, and that's great. That's great. They'll still have that ability, but certainly they're going to consider that when they're looking at fees and so on so forth. Whereas in this case, we're talking about the ability of a city to provide a service when we already have the

infrastructure in place that people have already contributed to. And so therefore, they're getting a greater benefit of availability based on what they've expended. And and I hear what you're saying when you're talking about people from outside the community, which we love. Come here, join us, be in the pools and all that, but hey, be willing to pay.

When we changed those fees, it was a it was a broad discussion with a whole lot of other fees. And um it was it's been what two years now or a whole year now? Three years. Um I was concerned at the time and I' I've mentioned many times um sometimes you need to worry about pricing people out. Um and so there are, you know, lots of factors that go into that fee. We raised it a lot and I think that we can see that it has really impacted the affordability of some of these teams. Um I would like to revisit that fee for part for rental. Um, and I don't know if I'm, you know, I think it's important we did it two years ago. I think it's good idea to maybe revisit that. Um, to have this discussion. Um, I'm open with the dollars and and what what impact it did have. So, I would like to, you know, aside from this I could possibly ask for

I agree to readress the the fee.

I agree with Robin. I mean, your program is great. Great idea. Go for it. Let's run it. But bigger picture is also look at because two years ago we we looked at fees. We did have a long discussion over it. Um and it's tough when you're looking at say box other guys were a great example of having so many league so many teams so much field space hindsight yeah we want them to pay which we still do and they still should but maybe they shouldn't pay the same rate as I would have to pay just to I'm going to take my family to go run the park for few hours on a Saturday I'm going to rent it no you buy in bulk to get a better rate so I think We got to negotiate something and look at that um with some money and some field use and better zero frankly. So that's good feedback. Sounds like in eight months probably wouldn't be able to visit that because it sounds like Jeff would like to be on that. He's going to be I don't know how available you're gonna be for the next little while. I am 100% available.

You're out of town. Anything soccer I'm on it. So, no, that's a great idea and we'll we'll uh we'll get on that about that with staff. I don't know that uh the discussion should all be on in a public meeting. Not that we're not being transparent, but uh there's a lot that's going to be discussed. I hate for a public meeting to go like three, four hours this year.

Craig Mong, I don't think it's a role for city council. I think it's a role for city staff. maybe you can do is go sit down with Boxo United and these leagues and say, "What would it take to bring you back?" Have those discussions. City Council doesn't be part of that. Just have those discussions. Have those meetings. See what it needs to do to get the football program back on our fields. Talk to Boxell United. Talk to all these groups who've left us. Okay, we made and just be honest. It's great for you to do it. You know why? You weren't here. Derek has to do it. Derrick has to say, "Yeah, I made a mistake. We we we screwed that one. You're assuming we made a mistake. He did. Awful. We all did. But but we we realized maybe we overdid it and it didn't really work in our favor. So we should go back as people who represent all these people in our community. It's like, look, what can we do to bring you back in their fields? And no, I hear you. I guess I'm not really like overly concerned about, you know, these big leagues that that choose and have people from all over, but like when we get into the older groups and when we have, you know, softball or teball practice and they pay the one fee, but then all of a sudden if you want to have a practice, your coach is going to have to you're going to end up paying three times as much just to have a practice, you know, once a That's a that's a huge difference between a cityrun program.

Yeah, there city corporation is not going to charge our city sponsored city ran soccer for practicing on our fields. Absolutely not. The cops want but it should be a negotiated unless you want to.

Great job. Welcome to very good luck with that. I mean, we want to encourage also some more independent comp teams. You know, everybody knows my daughter coaches an independent team outside of United Team, very successful who had been undefeated for three years against BE United. And so and all her girls are in burgundy and I think that that can expand um from these um things that we're going to put together. there's a great opportunity to expand that into more independent but um we had a lot before um and a lot of kids are priced out of these larger organ discussion

I think that needs to be addressed. Anybody have any more questions on the recreation fee resolution that's before us? If not, then we'll ask for an action. I'm excited. Oh, no. And U6 there was not there was no jersey. Are you just going like a simple Yeah, for those programs um the we're going to use a t-shirt. Okay. Um, yeah, we'll do a custom t-shirt that they were gonna try to throw into.

Yeah. No, we're gonna avoid that so they don't look like blue colored ghosts out there running around. Kick my soccer ball. Great. Okay. So, yeah, I love digging out 10year-old junior jazz jerseys. Okay, we're looking for a duty motion or an action. I'd like to move to approve updating recreation fee resolution to include the soccer programming fee. We have a motion by council member Trox. So, do we have a second? Second.

Second by council member Hip. Pardon me. This will be a roll call vote. We'll start with council member Jeff. Move to his left. I Hey, Ryan is an I. Yes, I thank you. Motion passed.

We need a motion. Mayor, just real quick. So, normally if if two council members request an item be brought to council meeting, then we normally do. So, so I guess follow-up question. There's a lot of conversation about field use fees tonight and the discussion about soccer. So, um I guess mayor for you, you know, obviously we had a couple council members want to bring the field use fee conversation back to the table. Um I guess staff direction on that

time frame and and what you want to see put together in preparation for that uh item being brought brought back to the council table. Oh, you said how how long how long you

like I said in the budget process then is that it's guess you look at that but I think it's more of a see what the feelers are have those discussions with the groups and figure out what you can put get people back on their fields and then you got I think that's they're trying to put uh time frame on would you like it done by February by July one so it goes through the budget process through those work sessions and sessions or think July one it makes sense if you want them there for that season want to do it sooner rather than later wouldn't you

I do think that I would like to just address the itself and and staff the cost and and those types of things to to see. um if we can maybe adjust that. Um we've gotten a lot of feedback on that fee um over the last couple years. And as far as getting these big usage types of things, I think is left up to staff or for you guys to those negotiations with them.

So like there's no negotiation. We they rent a they rent a soccer field and we charge what the city council sets. There's zero negotiation going on. That's what we want to say.

So the question I guess my question T is probably going to say this is what are Yeah. What are the goal posts you're looking at? Are you gonna is is Chris going out and he's looking at the maintenance and and trying to come up with the cost that that you're trying to to cover? Are you what's what are those goalposts that you like staff to look at as far as the the rubrics in in cutting those fees? Are we looking at other communities? Is it in combination with with the maintenance and and manpower for that maintenance and and running the program? What's that's I'm kind of asking for and that's probably what Dererick's asking for is some goalposts have to to try and kick this through because we do have all of this information already put together. It'd be very easy for us to bring all this back to you. We have costs breakdown, staff time, uh materials, what it cost, why C. We have all of that stuff already put together and and that's I think we presented that last time and we'd be happy.

It wasn't two years ago. We we made an adjustment to this last la last early spring. So that I mean really I think from a staff perspective we're just I think what I'm hearing from two council members is we you feel like it's too high and that if so in that scenario we just bring the resolution back to the city council table and you guys say where you want to set it. I think the council's aware just remind you a year ago you the the current fee is about a quarter of what the actual cost to run those are. So that it's not this is not an over and under thing. This is whatever the city council wants to say that's

that's the fish that's all issue. We don't know what that is because if you sit, we can sit there and say what the average citizen who wants to run our field is. Yeah, you should pay 50 bucks an hour if I want to run it. You're talking a league like box who's got hundreds of teams can't charge them that fee. That's that's ludicrous. Hindsight, we realize that doesn't make sense. It didn't make sense for them. That's why they left. So, we need to you should have that discussion with them. What would it take for them to come back in our fields at a reasonable rate? And I think that's what I would want to see. Have those discussions. I don't want to tell you what the plan if you're going to tell me it's going to cost we spend $200 a week to mow that one field, 400 for that one. Whatever you guys tell us, we're going to sit there and go, "Okay, that makes sense." But we're not the ones out there talking to the the guys who run the leagues. I don't know what they charge a player, but those kids play pay to play um base comp teams because it's an easy fix if you talk to them say, "Well, just charge an extra $2 for cover." You just got to you got to have those conversations.

Yeah. No,

sorry, Dave. council sets those fees and typically when there's negotiations whether it's property or fees with that then there's a designation that has to come from city council authorizing somebody entered into those negotiations and so that's what I'm asking it sounds like that type of a resolution needs to come to city council first authorized staff or the mayor and city administrator conduct those negotiations based on the what we've already said yeah I think just I think the issue from a staff perspective is obviously I have zero negotiation power because the city council has set a resolution that that is the fee and you know the difference between a YSO B United or an independent team. I can't treat any of those different.

No. Yeah. No. Yeah. They're the same. You have to find out what it's going to cost to get teams back on. Then you make it fair for everybody.

So yeah, you can't charge anyway. different rates in matter. I I think I think information wise for me it would be what are what are communities around us charging and um go from I mean the maintenance costs of our fields or maintenance costs of are certain of those costs that are not inherent to soccer or anything else have green space those costs are going to be there if no one steps foot enough and so some of that maintenance cost associated with using it will be great information that's I would like to see and then and then that's your take away from my what I'm about to say but it sounds like

in next council or after the first of the year since next council is close to Christmas not that we have that information but yeah in council in in January February you guys tell me which one but it sounds like we'd like to see those type of rubric the the maintenance the comparison to other communities and then a resolution authorizing the mayor or city administrator to enter negotiations based on that type of thing with those teams to bring back to at another council meeting

for decision by the council on what that discussion and brought forth city those fees are set right they come back just come back with the end of January.

Yeah. So, and then but I'm not a huge fan look at the numbers instead of set a fee. I don't I don't want to be like 39 $928. I don't want to at that point. I think Dave was saying we find out what that negotiation is and then just that's what the flat find I just got to find the right you got to find a number that makes sense and if if Willard and Perry aren't charging field use fees and that's something to look at that's

what that's we just got to figure out what that is I just got to jump in real quick this was not this this is not agended So, we need to as far as what other people are paying, but January city attorney's finance, mayor, but yeah. Okay. So,

just real quick, I got to protect staff. That's my job. Um, exactly what the council's looking for in very specific detail was given to you and, you know, the very specifics of everyone and a comparison to everything. We will update that and bring that back to the um obviously there's been some adjustments um with, you know, wages and everything. associated with city staff and we'll update that any information that we have that what we presented a year ago um with the uh comparisons of other cities that 100% of what you're asking for was in front of you a year ago when we did this. So we'll get that updated and brought back. Okay. By the end of January is what I heard. Is that a end of January?

Okay. All right. We need a motion to enter into a close session to discuss the purchase, exchange or lease of real property, pending or reasonable imminent litigation or the character professional confidence, cyber security or physical or mental health of individual. Oops. Have a motion to move into close session. We have a second. This will be a roll call. Go a second. All right. By So the motion was by Mr. Smith. The second was by Mr. Jeffrey. A roll call. We'll start with Mr. your hip and go to his right. It's an I. That's an I. Brian, Robin, Jeffy's an I. Thank you. We'll be entering close session. Thank you everybody for coming. It out.