Cc - Regular Meeting

Uh ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Brigen City's City Council uh today uh this Thursday, April 16, 2026. We uh happy to see folks here and welcome you uh in joining us. We will begin our council meeting by having a thought reading or an invocation by my friend Bishop Rob Riley from the Bish Brigham City board. Following that, I will lead us in the pledge of allegiance. Bishop Brian, if you'll come up to the podium. Our dear kind heavenly father, we are grateful that we have this chance to meet and to be here and participate. We're grateful for the blessings that gives us every day of our lives. And we are grateful for the the country we have to live in with the freedoms that we have. We pray that I will please bless the leaders of our city and the leaders of our country and our state that they will be inspired to make life wise choices and that they will to do good. We pray that will please be with the city the people of the city and help them that they can be kind and generous and and have thy spirit with them. We're grateful for the the blessings that we have and the many wonderful things that we enjoy and we pray for thy spirit to be with us throughout this meeting. We do these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Amen. Thank you. I would invite you all to please stand and remove any unofficial head gear if you have any. Join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Please be seated. Council, we have two items on consent for your uh motion and approval. Motion to approve consent items.

Thank you. We have a motion by council member Tox. Do we have a second? Second. Is there Does anybody have any questions or clarification on the two items in consent? All those in favor? I.

Any opposed? Thank you. Motion passes. Uh before we move into public comments, uh we had put the discussion item at 6:15. uh where we did because uh prior to today and the weather uh Mr. Oiler wasn't going to be here. Now those games have been cancelled but he was going to be to with his with his son. So he's going to be here. I would ask permission from council to uh to alter the agenda and move the discussion item under the action items which is typical of our agenda. Any problems with that? All right. Thank you. We will do that then. We will move to our public comments. We'd love to hear from anybody that would love to uh comment. We invite you to come to the podium. Please state your name, where you live, and we'd love to hear you take up to three minutes if you'd like. The public comments are reserved for those that live within Brigham City limits, own property in Brigham City, can vote in Brigham City. We'd uh love to hear from you if you have a comment at this point. Council, see nobody has flinched. we will move on from public comments and move on to council or yeah council member comments and uh we have the city administrator on there but he's going to be presenting so I'll let him talk then so we'll start with council member Jensen and move to his right I don't have anything today thanks Matt Dave

I'm good thank you Mr. Oh, I'm good. Thank you. This is good. Council member Smith, um, just clean up ends tomorrow, right? Clean up Friday to Friday to Friday. I think you're right. Okay, just a reminder of that. Other than that, not that's all good.

All right. And I don't have any comments and so we will move on to our action items. Our first action item is a consideration to amend the land lease agreement with Verizon Wireless at Pioneer Park. I have Mark Bradley listed, but we are going to invite Mr. Tom Carter, our community development director, to present. This is something we've talked about before.

Awesome. Thank you, Mayor. Let me just hit the share button. All right. So, as you were aware, this is something we talked about before. It's an existing structure. Um so back in 2017 Verizon Wireless the cell structure placed down on Pioneer Park. What has happened they've T-Mobile has an application to colllocate at this site that has required for a little bit of the bigger pad pad the bigger expansion on the on the cell tower. Uh these show the locations of it. What is going on? what it's the one on the right kind of just the zoomed in area one on the left you can see the train tracks down there it's just the same area just zoomed in zoomed out so you can get the general location of where that is uh so this is the proposed what will be taking place what's going to be the additional footprint of the structure uh so this really kind of shows you it better so those stakes is the proposed new area that the T-Mobile UAL location is going to require. You can see both those pictures of the stake of the small footprint that's actually going to be happening. Um the elevation pictures really that was kind of it and the same they're going to pay the same rate for that new area that they're currently paying. Um with that we just need the council's approval to to move forward and sign that agreement. Any questions for me that I can answer?

You got anything for Tom? If not, we'll entertain a motion. Yes. Yeah. It's actually a separate tower, isn't it? It's not just No, it's built on top of it. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Thanks, Ryan. It It technically won't be a fence in that area because of the elevation change. It'll be a concrete wall up to a certain point with fence on top of it. They went through the slides that really show that are not coming through for a reason.

Concrete. Yeah. So that essentially they'll be the first is it three and a half four feet will be concrete just because the elevation change and they fill it up. Obviously the elevation the two areas have got to be roughly level. So there's the dip in the park right there. So the bottom portion of that will be concrete with a fence on top. More of a retaining wall. Yes. No. With a fence on top. Okay.

Yes. He's not paying for any. Yeah. It's all again this is an existing structure that exists in the city. They're just wanting to expand it. People would colllocate with them. My understanding though, Ryan, is if you hit a softball there, it's counts for two runs because you hit it over two fins.

Well, the lease agreement is with Verizon that we currently have with Yeah. So stay the same. T-Mobile is just colllocating on Verizon structure. T-Mobile is under or with Verizon. Okay. T-Mobile is a separate company. They are collocated on the Verizon structure. We have the the lease is just with Verizon. However, Verizon separate.

Yeah. It's just an amendment to the existing lease agreement with the additional 12 small as you T-Mobile who's colllocating on Verizon structure. I know I need to say T-Mobile's gonna get better, but I'm not sure Verizon will. Right. Motion to approve to amend the land base agreement with Verizon Wireless at Pioneer Park. Thank you. We have a motion by council member Troxel. Do we have a second? Second.

Second by council member Hip. Uh all those in favor. Any opposed? Thank you. Motion passes. We'll now invite Mr. cart to stay there because we have a consideration of an approval of a facade grant at 63 South and Main Street.

Yeah. So, this is exciting. This is my first facade grant I get to work with. So, as you are very aware, council, we have a downtown facade grant program. You can see those are the goals of this program. Simulate private investment, generate additional revitalization, beautify downtown Brighgam, and increase business. Those are the goals of all we want to do down in town in Brigham. Uh so the one that has an application before us on 63 South Main Street, one is the Canson Brothers building. Uh the current owner is Mr. Chad Greer. Um so he has asked for this grant application. Uh so I put a little bit of the history of this building up there on the screen. It was built back in 1914 by the Kudson brothers, hence the name. Um, I thought it was interesting as you look through the different things that took place in here. So, this is actually the original home of what we now call the uh chamber of commerce, the commercial club. Back in 1914 was the chamber of commerce. Uh, you can see the cycle actually located in this building for a small time in the 50s when they first came to Brigham City as they waited for the plant out of promontory to have more office space located. Um, these are some of the articles that were we found. The Alana Museum did a great job of finding the history on the building. You can kind of see how it used to look a little bit here on the sorry from the 1958 news and journal. That is what Mr. Dreer is kind of wanting to do more because right now those windows are pretty shuttered and Chad's wanting to open them back up and make it back to what it used to be. and he would actually love to put the balcon back on, but that is not part of his application that he's asking about today. Um, these are kind of some other pictures you can look at. This is what it looks like today. Mr. Greer does own

the building across the street to the west. Uh, so you can kind of see what he has done with some of the other buildings on Main Street, which is going to have a balcony.

Yeah. So, you can see those even in 1991 when I was 10 years old. You can see right there those windows that have those wood shutters in them. Mr. Greer's plan is to open them up to do the facade on this building to bring it back to really make it shine. This is his I put the windows there in black so you could really kind of see what Chad is planning on uncovering those windows that have been covered for decades. Place the aging storefront doors and should say front windows and windows should say doors. High typo, not shads. Um, so it's a exciting project for the downtown. Mr. Greer is planning on spending his budget he has said is around a million dollars. U grant facade grant is capped at 10,000. That's a reimbursement grant. Uh we do require proof of payment as it is there. So we match 50 cents to the dollar is what the grant does. So we fully anticipate paying the full 10,000 to Mr. upon the completion of this project. Any questions that I can answer for the council about this project comment? I really appreciate it as I looked this over earlier explanation of the history. It was very interesting, easy and clean to see what was going on there for first presentation

and really Chad also the council would like to Mr. Greer or Chad for me to call Mr. Greer. Chad would love he'd love to show these off. Uh if the council would ever want to go in and see what it looks like, what he's planning to do, he would welcome you or the building on the upstairs. He has turned the upstairs. He's already turned into he's turning them into apartments and he's done that interior work already. It's pretty amazing what he's done what the plan is. And he already has tenants for the basement. And when you Yeah. When you go to Main Street, they're nice additions.

Hi, Council. We We're looking for a motion. Make a motion for approval of facade granite three South Main by Tom Carter. Thank you, Mayor Prom. We have a motion by council member Hit. Second. Second by council member Jensen. All those in favor. Any opposed? Thank you. Motion passes.

Next one. We're going to have a couple of presenters on. This is a consideration of an ordinance amending our city code title 5 consolid our consolidated fee schedule that we put all together in a nice little uh package with a bow on top and now is the time to start updating things. Uh and this will be uh we will be talking about and considering the fee schedule for the airport library public works and power fees. Nicole is going to be presenting on most on most of this. We do have Mr. Ber, who we're who you're familiar with from a couple weeks ago, who uh he says it's colder here than it is in Minnesota today. So, he wishes he was home, but he's here with us. And we'll we'll ask him to actually present the power the power rates and we'll turn the time over to Dave since I think that's probably the most that's I don't want to say that. That may insult some of our some of our staff, but that may be the most interesting part of this consolidation piece. Right.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, everybody. So, this is just a sort of a final recommendation. I I gave some some previous information remotely here just a few weeks ago and I'm here in person. So, I'll being sort of nodding at Christina and she'll move us move us through this. So there's a few slides here where I'm going to revisit some things that we talked about just to make sure that we're all on the same page. And you one of the things that that is driving you've got really um fairly dramatic growth um that you're anticipating coming to Brighgam and I was actually in Lehi on Tuesday and they also have growth and I I was telling them and I'll tell you the same thing. Not very many of my clients are seeing growth. uh you know there's there's a few that are seeing you know like with a data center or something but not seeing the kind of growth um that you're seeing here and that they're seeing there and and I just find it very interesting because the vast majority of my clients the best they're hoping for from a electricity sales perspective is to just stay steady and so with a lot of the growth that you've got you've got pretty significant capital improvements plan and and in fact when you look up there the big significant thing is you have three substations in your five-year capital improvement plan. Uh and that's those are big projects and they're expensive projects. So when you look down at the bottom and in particular look at fiscal 26 which is almost over and we're about 15 million there about 13 million in 28 and another 15.5 million in 2030. Uh and so part of what's impacting the the recommendations is is the funding around uh the capital improvement to really bring in the infrastructure that you need for the growth. But we also this table you saw before

this is just looking at projected operating results under the assumption that we don't change the rate. So this is existing rates and you see the growth in revenues that's because of the uh projected growth that we've got and then also the the growth in operating expenses a good portion of that which is your wholesale power associated with needing to buy more energy for the growth and and really when you get down to the bottom line and and look at that change in net position um it sort of goes up and down um but it's sort of in the neighborhood of zero really when you look at that kind of bottom line uh on the operating results. The big thing is is that what happens with your operating results ultimately is not the most critical aspect around sort of measuring the fiscal health of the utility. It's really more about what happens to your reserve funds which we go to the next one. So again, this is with no assumed change in rates. And what you can see is that we start out this fiscal year at about $8.5 million uh in reserves. We add in that change in net position, which was on the previous slide or subtract in the years that's negative. We also have to pay the principal payments on your existing debt. Then we have uh you have some existing bond funds that were still available at the beginning of this fiscal year which are shown. We also have a if you go down if you we have a new debt issue assumed in 2028. See that plus new debt funds uh down a little bit. We also add in depreciation because that's a non cash expense which is in the operating results on the previous slide. So those dollars get added back into this cast reconciliation. Uh you also have impact fees that you bring in. Uh we have a small grant uh included and then when we

get down to the bottom then we have to start paying the principal on that new debt. So that new debt principal payment shows up and then those capital improvements um are there. Now you have a goal of having your reserves uh be at 50% of your operating expenses. So what I'm showing there is the reserves is a percentage of operating expenses and it 58% projected for the end of 26 and two months. But that goes all the way down to 11% of operating expenses with no rate changes by the end of the study period. And at the bottom there, I showed the the numerical value of the reserve goal, which obviously that keeps going up because you have increased expenses both because of inflation as well as because of growth. And then I show the either over or under. And basically what you can see is that by the end of the period, you're 13.5 million under your reserve goal. So, that's what's driving uh ultimately the need for additional revenues. Before I move on, and again, this has all been a review of what I talked about before, but any um lingering questions on that before we move on? Keep going, Dave. Okay? So we also talked about cost of service last time and I'm not going not going to belabor this but based on the analysis there won't be any differences in the recommendations from class to class based on the cost of service results but um it's reasonably close and so the the recommendation for rate increases will basically be be spread across all classes uh the same although it will occur a little differently in certain classes. Next.

So, and and this matches what I talked about last time. And in order to get to end of period reserves that meet your goal, I'm recommending u 4% increases every year. Uh starting with one obviously that would be July 1, which is the beginning of fiscal 27, and then another one in 28, another one in 29, and then another one in 2030. So it's a 4% uh increase each year. Okay. Now looking at the rates. So what this shows and we talked about the rate structure last time. What this shows is looking at uh how I'm recommending achieving the 4% increases in each of the classes. And and the probably the primary focus we should look at is is residential. We talked some about this uh last time. So your residential rates, you have a different seasonal rate. In the summertime, that first block, you've got what's called a an inverted block rate or increasing block rate. If you look in the summer, there's that first 400 kilowatt hour is at a certain rate. Then the next 600 is at a higher rate and everything over a thousand is at a higher rate. uh beyond that and and the idea around rate design like this is that it's really a conservation encouragement rate if you will in that particular in the summer wind power is most expensive and when you set your peak demands on your system which drive your need for in infrastructure uh within the residential class we build more for the folks who use more now there's also a customer charge so when you look what recommending is that that customer charge which is currently $10 that that go up $2 each year. Now the thing about the

customer charges is they have a bigger impact on lower use customers like somebody who uses let's say 300 kilwatt hours per month that customer charge is a bigger portion of their bill. So then increases in that customer charge impact them on a percentage basis more. And so when you look you'll say well you're saying 4% but that customer charge that first year goes from 10 12 which my sixth grade math tells me is a 20% increase which is obviously a lot more than four. And so I've got some examples of builds in just a moment. But what we've done to soften the blow on lower use customers is that that first energy block, which is also the energy charge in all of the non- summer usage, doesn't go up by as much. And there's heavier increases in the energy rates. Like if you look at that first 400 in the first year, it goes from basically 11.6 68 cents up to 11.8. That's only an increase of.12 cents. If you look at that last block, which it goes from 15.68 up to 16.38, that's an increase of 7/10 of a cent. So see that first block only goes up by 12100s of a cent and that last block goes up by basically 7000s. So what that means is that for the folks particularly in the summer who use a lot of energy, they see more of an increase in their consumption rates than the smaller folks where that $2 increase in the customer charge has more impact. And and I've got some very specifics to show you how how these across the residential summer rate impact different kinds of customers. uh really then for a lot of the other

classes now you've got a general service no demand where structure is somewhat like residential except for there's just a single energy charge and in in those the customer charge is going up by $3 every year and then the energy charge is going up by the amount that's needed to have sort of an overall 4% increase. Again, some of the smaller customers will see slightly more and then the larger customers slightly less relative to that percentage increase here. I should just in getting back to that residential and I'd mentioned this before, but the costbased customer charge for residential is slightly over $20 a month. So, still we're not we're not there yet, but we're moving in that direction. Okay, next. And really now when we look at at at the general service demand rate and the industrial rate and the lighting rates, all of these are more or less 4% for all customers uh when we when we have the increases in these rates rates going forward. So regardless of kind of your size and how you might use energy, everybody's going to see about a 4% increase in all of these other rates here. Now this is the the showing just really on the summer impact for residential. So that first table just shows those rates again that I had previously. So you can see the current rate and then 27 through 30 and then there's that monthly charge and then there's the the block charges or the 0 to 400, the 400 to a,000 and the over a,000 and then there's also that nonsomemer. Those rates are exactly the same as the 0 to 400 rate. Now what I'm showing and I'm just showing the comparisons for summer bills. So I've got different usages. I've got 300, 600, 900, 1,200, and 1500 kilowatt hours. Now you will have residential

customers who actually use more than the 1500 as well. But what I show is so at the current rate what their bill would be. So for instance, a small user with 300 kilwatt hours, their bill would be $454. And then I show what the bill is going forward. Now you'll notice that if you look at that 300 customers, the first year, their bill goes up by $2.36. $2 of that is that customer charge. So only 36 cents of their increase is due to the increase in the consumption rate. uh and and actually now if you if you drop down to the third area in the table, these show the increases. Now these increases are all the increases going back to the current. So it goes up by $2.36 for that small customer the first year. The second year is $4.78 more than the current bill. So from 27 to 28 it actually goes up by $242. But I'm just showing the the impact is all based on comparison to where the rates are today for all of these different customers. But now the percentage changes are just on an annual basis. So you'll notice then for those small now we're 4% overall. So the the smaller customers because of those customer charge increases first couple of years they're around 5%. And then in the lower years or in the later years that drops somewhat below five. And if you look at 2030 where the total cumulative increase is $9.56 again $8 of that is a customer charge and only $156 is due to the consumption. And then what happens is when you get and this is just in the summer in the

nonsummer everybody's the higher um users their bills will be slightly less because you haven't got that inverted rate in the nonsummer but you'll notice that the percentages in the 600 range is is close to the 4% and then they're slightly more than 4% at some of the higher you get above 1500 if you get to 22500 their percentage increases will be even more because they've got that a lot of energy in that last block which gets the highest increase relative to consumption. But we've done this in order to make sure that those lower customers who are impacted more by the customer charge aren't impacted as much by the consumption charge. And really when we look at the difference between like four and 5% we're really talking about in cents you know the difference in the amount particularly for some of the smaller customers. So in particular questions about what I'm I'm trying to show here.

Any questions council clarifications at this point? So as you as your charge goes up that's counted into this 4% as well. Yes. So you took that the rate from Yeah. From my p in my book the customer charge is a rate

and then the consumption rates are a rate. So, you know, if you raise, you know, if you rate just the customer charge, you're still doing a rate increase. And and so overall, the 4% is is accomplished through the increases in the customer charge as well as in the consumption charges. But the totality for the residential class as a whole with all of those components is 4%. Focusing on keeping that 0 to 400 a little bit. We're trying to soften the blow. That's that's why we have between,

you know, if you look at the customer charge, you know, starting at $10, if you only raise that 4%, it goes to $10.40. And and so when you're when you're at a position where your customer charge is lower than what it could be, if you don't raise it more than that, you will never catch up, you know. So that's why we're having a little bit higher increases. Now, customer charges right now, uh, Rocky Mountain is $12 residential. Um, for instance, let's see, Spanish Fork is 22 or $23. I think Provo is around 18. Uh, and there are some folks, uh, Lehi is at 10. Um, same as you, and I'll be making a similar recommendation to them in about a month. Um, anything else? Continue, Dave. All right. So, now here's the operating results with the proposed rates. And basically, what you can see is that they're they're all positive and getting, you know, increasing. When you compare each year, it's more it's an increasing amount more than what was in with the existing rates. Obviously, we're we're raising revenue without having uh expenses change. The only thing that that changes with the increase in revenues is the transfer. And that most importantly when we look at uh projected cash reserves uh you can see that by the end we're we're right at 50% and the 17.7 million turned out we were within $4,300 of 50%. The only guarantee I can make about this projection is that it's wrong

because obviously you know we're only we're only so good at forecasting the future. Yeah, with that goal in mind, it it came out um really close. Any further questions for Dave B on that uh the reserve as it keeps growing, a system keeps growing and that reserve has to keep going up. Is there economies of scale where it might be like 14% or not 50% but it could go down a little bit and still cover our needs? Well, at some point you could start to consider that. But but the thing is is that one of the things that reserves is is like a self- insurance policy. Let me give you an example. Um few years ago, another municipal utility in Utah, there was a there's a whole bunch of things that happened. There was there was drought, there was uh fall heat, there was uh uh there was a problem with a gas line. Market prices were really high. And they lost about $25 million in two months because of power costs. And if they hadn't had substantial reserves, it would have been even worse problem that it was because they were able to then address it over a little bit longer period of time. The other thing is is that if something happens to your system, you know, storms, ice, whatever that takes out, you know, you have a a large transformer fail in a substation. The more system you've got, the more risk you've got. want. And as you can see in your capital improvements, things in our industry are not getting cheaper, particularly transformers. And one of the things that can happen is if you have a transformer fail, well, you can get a new one in about three years, maybe. A lot of times

what you have to do is you got to pay for a portable to come in to replace that. And that costs money. And that costs money for that entire period until you can replace that. Um, and plus I tell you rating agencies really love it when you've got sufficient reserves on the operating revenues. Operating revenues is that includes the growth that we Yeah. Yeah. And if you go back to one of the Christina, can we go back to like the first slide? Uh and the next one right there. So you'll see that and this is existing rates and see how the operating revenues go from 23 to 25 to almost 30 to 35 to 39. That's because of growth in sales because we haven't had any rate increase built into that. So it's it's purely volume of sales that's driving that increase in revenue. If our growth doesn't meet what we anticipate it to be, how do what do you what do we what do we do? Well, if a lot of that growth doesn't come, you're probably going to cancel some of those projects as well. If you don't have three new substations worth of growth, I wouldn't build three new substations. Maybe Matt for a little bit of history. So the the last substation the city built was other than the ones currently under construction was, you know, in 2017. Total cost of construction for that substation was just over 4 million. We're building one in 2026. It's just under 12 million. There's a little bit

of difference between the two, but not a lot. So 9 years times three I'm guessing it comes out. Well, I'm just thinking as a customer um feeling like, okay, I'm I'm having to pay for all the new growth just because how much of this operating expense is actual existing infrastructure upkeep and stuff like that or is all of that like new growth? Well, you have our capital project.

Well, the operating expense, the biggest piece of operating expense is the wholesale power. That's about 70% of the operating expense is just getting the power and energy. So of course as as you have growth then you have more and everybody you know whether you're existing or new you you need to get your power.

Now um go to go uh one more slide. Okay. Now, some of the growth, you'll notice that there's about 4 and a half 7 and a half about 13.5 million of impact fees. So, that's contributions from growth to help pay for infrastructure. So, that that's a piece of the puzzle to to paying for a lot of the infrastructure that you have relative to growth. Now there's also some things like um in the operating expenses we have because of the growth we have the assumption of needing to add another crew to uh to to deal with the maintenance on a on a bigger system. And so you could say well that's because of growth but new customers are paying the same rates as existing customers. So, you know, some of that incremental, but they also, you could say some of the fixed expenses you have around staffing and so on get spread over more customers with growth. So, while you might have some more expensive infrastructure, you then have some economies of scale in that a lot of your staff doesn't have to grow to serve a lot of those new customers. And the other thing is, you know, you could also say, well, older infrastructure needs more on&m and oftentimes has to be replaced by newer. Just because people have been on the system for 30 years doesn't mean that all of the material, all of the system that serves them is 30 years old. And so, and the other thing is in our industry, we've always had socialization of cost and rates. and and we we differentiate by classes because classes use energy different and put different costs in the system and that's the point of the cost of service analysis. But you think of like Rocky Mountain Power who

serves lots of different communities in the state and everybody paid the same rate. But you could argue that, you know, the service in Salt Lake might be different than it is in in some other community that they serve. But that's just that's always just been the way that our our system works. And it's it's very difficult to say this individual like residential customer is different than this individual residential customer. I think one thing I would add to to Dave so if you look at the debt service payments that are mostly related to new capital which is new growth and the the associated off being offset by additional impact fee revenue. Compare those numbers to the growth that we're showing over a 5-year period to just total revenue. That revenue does exceed the debt service payments. So, I guess in my although what we're showing here is a lot of that additional revenue is going to essentially replace or replenish fund balance over the five-year period. rainy day funds in case something explodes and we we immediately spend millions of dollars replacing infrastructure. But that growth on just a revenue basis does outpace the debt service payments issued with any new additional debt for new capital. So that you know I hope that's understood by the public of what I'm saying that the the growth in revenue will outpace the debt service issued through new growth including O and M. And part of the cost of service basis for debt financing significant infrastructure is some utilities will say we would like to save

up cash and then pay cash for that stuff. Well, when you do that, that means you got to build today's customers a little extra to build up cash to pay for infrastructure that primarily benefits tomorrow's customers. And so, you know, bond financing from a cost of service perspective is actually considered the fair way to do it so that the people who are using that new infrastructure are helping to pay for it over time.

As I look at the the impact fees and they're every other year, that was just the way we we kind of assumed it. you know, impact fees. It just sort of depends on when when these people come in and when things are done. And um again, there there's all kinds of timing things that could go differently relative to what's what's in this table, but working with staff, that was just a reasonable representation. We didn't think we could put a new core towers and structures online every year. Maybe every other. That's that honestly that's logic. Projects that big are not normally happening every year. That makes sense.

So that's that's including residential plus commercial would be coming in coming in. Those bigger fluctuations are bigger industrial growth. We we came up with a 50% curve as as staff. Did you come up with the want to accomplish that in four years as well? 50% came from you. Did the timing come from you that hey, we want to get to this or was this?

Well, but but if you look 2026, there's no rate increase. As of the end of 26, you're at 58%. Right. Okay. So, you're there and so it's not to get you there. It's to keep you there.

Now, it dips down. I mean it in the later ones, you know, it doesn't dip down, but but you're at that now. If we don't do something, you end up at 11%. Because this is the existing rate analysis here. And correct me if I'm wrong, Derek. I believe council passed that policy on when to enact the PAC on that those reserves when it when it dips down in order to make sure that that's there. There there's two parts to that obviously with with the TAC and the reserve there. That's essentially a rate stabilization fund. Separate from that is Dave's cash of operating. So it I believe it was the first time we talked with you. This is the third time you've been here, correct?

Yes. We talked about the number of days the city could operate with no additional revenues and keep the system on and we talked about six months. That's why he's saying the 50% you know, and then and then you have to couple that with reality of just look at the actual math as compared to what the cost of replacing number one and two transformers would be in the substation which we're saying is you know 5 to8 million in today's world. So you couple days cash which we're saying essentially you know six months of no additional revenues coming to the city um or and or what did the cost place you know, our biggest pieces of equipment. Obviously, you know, those two things come together as why Dave's putting the 50% in. We I mean, the council can adjust that. We assess the like 50% the bare minimum and it's not necessarily based on days cash. It's based on just look at the fund balance number as compared to what it would cost to replace significant portions of our, you know, two pieces of equipment. and the eub station which is our main fee. You're you're looking at 5 to8 million just to do those two and that's today. Those prices are good for 30 days and they're three months out three months or three years.

Three years. I was going to say not to get in the in the deep waters but we had multiple transformer failure or have to p we would have to purchase there' be a cost there would also be a time delay and there would be something in between to maintain vent or which would be additional costs necessarily mentioned or determined amount of time up to three years potentially before we even saw the trans. Exactly.

All that in an area of Yeah. Can you go back to the summer rates by customer section? Uh yeah. or Christian with the build. Yeah, with the build. Okay, this one. You know where the the most people are in each category in the city.

And in the summer, your average is probably in the 7 to 800 range of kilowatt hours. Most people are in that middle group there.

Yeah. 300 is a, you know, people who use 300. My mother used to use 300 kilowatt hours a month. She was a a 90 year old single woman who didn't see in the paper that depression ended. And so she uh you know she just didn't use much energy for anything and she used about 300 uh a month. That's that that's that's typical of where you're going to see that. uh a large family. When my four children all lived at home, we use 2500 kilwatt hours a month. Now, my wife and I use about a thousand. I That was a question I asked earlier. Uh did Card in July is 843 August number it's 512. Glad to help. This part of the discussion was always helpful to have now Representative Peterson here because his family probably used the most in the entire city. His house is lit up. So, one one of my and this probably isn't necessarily for you, but one of our I think one of our great things about Brigham City is that when people outside of our municipality claim that we are so extensive in my concern is that we are creeping up into more so than that. I understand everything is different. My business that I run is is different from a business somewhere else because they may have

that is one of my concerns is getting into fact that we are more expensive than our neighbor. Well, trust me when I tell you that Rocky Mountain Power just their rates are going to continue to go up as well. um that it's happening industrywide. They're just it's not there's nobody who's escaping uh rate increases. One of the reasons I'm so busy right now, it's just uh it's just what's happening. One of the one of the re and one of the real issues is power supply. We're running out of capacity in this country. And so, you know, there's a lot of debate about how to how to add capacity to keep the lights on. And with the addition of a lot of load now due to data centers, that's even putting more pressure on what's going on. And even if you don't have a data center, you're still impacted by it because because we have markets and and you've got more of a real-time market actually starting in just a few weeks in this area. And so market prices get impacted by everybody's load. And what gas prices, natural gas prices are a huge impact on the market. And you know what's happening with the weather and the the drought and the lack of hydro power in this region is not helping um that situation either. And and so to a large extent about 70% of your operating expenses are are literally outside your control because what's going on in the power market uh and what's going on with with just the power of of securing energy um is increasing for everybody. I could probably add too that uh Rocky Mountain well the other utility in the state uh their rates are uh controlled by a public power commission. I I would speculate that they don't even show a realistic cost maintaining their system

and I think that's one of the things that cities around the western United States are experiencing because it doesn't reflect the reality of what their system needs as far as maintenance because they don't have the rate. That's a real thing. it's affecting all the little cities and being able to get that power because they can't upgrade their system. And so when you do have not even a data center, but you have a a power structure that's coming to Brigham City for 10 megawatts, it seems like a little compared to a data center, but that that's the capacity right now of Rocky Mountains lines. So if somebody comes in wants more power, now those people are paying to upgrade the entire system in order to get that trap power transported here. So I would I I I that that's what I would add to that discussion is uh you know if if that's the comparison we have a really healthy utility here because we are able to maintain and uh what what you're seeing with the with maybe we are coming close to Rocky Mountain that's that's uh unfortunate the Rocky Mountain can't reflect the actual rates in order to maintain their system and uh and supply their customers what they need. Well, and a mile down the road from me, Meta is building, it's almost done, a new data center. It's 350 megawatts of electricity use. And Excel Energy, the big industrial utility is serving it. But it it'll impact the whole region because 350 megawatts is half of a coal fired power plant of capacity that just, you know, had to be has to be found somewhere. Here's probably another here's probably a good spot to give kudos to Senator Scott Sandal from Boxelder, our senator. uh passed a bill or had a a bill go through legislature signed into law that uh considering a data center because a data center brings in a lot of beneficial use and and money into a community. But outside of of Utah, you see that strain on the on the infrastructure. Senator Sandal's bill requires that if they're going to bring in a load like that, they need to bring in their own generation so it doesn't

affect the the rate payers within the cities. and uh that was want to give him kudos publicly and and and let our public know that that's how that's how it works here in Utah now going forward. Mayor, just real quick on the council member Smith's uh comments, we don't have it in the slide deck, but um in the we we did compare we got some city employees bills that don't live in the corporate limits of the city. grab those that are on the specific cords transmission. And in that that first uh rate increase for the very first year on a 1,200 uh KW customer, our bill with the rate increase that Dave is suggesting here, we would still be just less than Pacific Core. So it's less than a dollar. So essentially it this rate adjustment in year one would put us almost identical to what Rocky Mountain Power customers are paying right now.

That's for the summer. Yeah. For because we're cheaper in the winter time. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. For the most expensive of the two

talking summer rates and the summer is four months and and the non summer is is eight months. and and that that nonsomemer top right column those are the same rates as a 0 to 400. So really kind of everybody does better in the non-summer. I'm just showing the the summer bills because that's the most significant. And as we're as we're looking at these proposed rates, this is a we're looking at this year by year and these are these are suggestions over Yeah. year to year.

My my recommendation always too is that you got to keep your eye on the ball. uh you know and at times um you know I I lots of clients I give four or five year you know rate projections sometimes they just do them and sometimes they go you know we needed to do a little more or sometimes they say we needed to do a little less so you know depending on what happens the other thing is is that you also have to understand is that you have an adjustment clause that's in there too that that and I've got in this analysis I've got the adjustment clauses you know built in there but you as cost of power. If it goes up more than expected, that goes up more than expected as well. You really need that because you don't have any control over that and and you can bleed away a lot of money in a short period of time. You don't respond when that happens. Yeah. To your point, Council Member Smith, Dave was here exactly four years ago and gave it a four-year plan and the exception of the adjustment clause and made one other adjustment in a four-year period. The council adopted those rate adjustments exactly like Mr. Burke had suggested over that four-year period, and here we are again doing the next four-year look. So, we got to get these Uh yeah, Christina has on the sales and also uh staff has a draft report which I'll just be finalizing and so you you'll get a report as well. Anything else council for this otherwise we'll go on with the the remaining come to Yeah. So that maybe just real quick. So that obviously

if the council wants to do something different than Mr. Bird had talked about. I think right now with him standing here in the room with us would be a really good time to have that discussion if there's other ideas that would potentially change you know and how that affects other places. Um just maybe just real quick on that subject to remind the council uh in previous budget years, council had asked staff to bring a power rate adjustment to you outside of a high use month. So that's the reason we're in front of you in April instead of July through the norm normal budget process. So just keep that in mind. that's we're we're here, you know, outside of the normal budget process. So, we're if we make adjustments, we're not making them during one of the highest use uses months of the year when power bills are the most expensive. And then obviously there's other adjustments within title five today. We can go through um and you know, the council can adopt portions, not portions. You can parse that out. Obviously, we can take action on some, not all. But if there's if there's issues, opinions, questions, other ideas for rates with Dave standing here would is obviously the best time to to go through those questions or concerns and any ideas that might differ from Dave's suggestion. And the staff does support Dave's recommended changes. We brought down that over 10,00k. I mean, guess we don't have to have to necessarily change anything else. You could just do that. I mean, we could.

Yeah. I mean, it'll cost you your revenue obviously. Uh and and since the biggest increases are in the over a thousand relative to consumption. Uh and since you have that's when you sell a lot of that that power in the in the summer when when these rates are in effect, it will it will definitely cost you revenue and and you know one of the things I think it's always nobody likes rate increases but to a certain extent like if you let's look at the 1,200 you know that the first year it's it's $750. 50 cents, you know, is is the increase. Okay, nobody likes that, but it's not $25 a month of of an increase. And that they're, you know, you can look at the percentages and you can look at at at the dollar amount. And um I've had a lot of rate increases that are much higher than this for some of the clients that I've been working with the last couple of years. And I just always think you gota you need to look at both sort of the absolute dollars as well as the percentages you know and and remember that like just looking at the 1200 column so it's 748 the first year it's 1528 the second year but that's two years worth. So it's it's like 780 the second year is is the increase in the monthly billing to the baseline where we're at right now.

Yeah. So the average person in that that 800 range is going to see an increase of about that five bucks if their usage is the same. Looking down at the third column, third one and the next year another five bucks more. six months. From my experience, there's a lot that the citizen can do, too. Two August ago, I replaced, and I know it's an investment, but older older models of refrigerators and TVs and air compressors and condensers on air conditioning units, uh, they use more energy. I uh I invested, you know, $7,500 into a new HBAC system. My electric bill went from 525 down to 210 in in a 30-day period. Uh change of habits at my business. Uh knowing that power prices are cheaper in the morning than they are at night uh and in the afternoon especially. The minute uh it hits 6:30, we start sand blasting and turn on that three phase. Now, it might a little different because there's a demand meter there, but the uh the uh idea is the same. And by the time it gets uh hot but noon, one o'clock when you start to really hit the air conditioner flowing, we're done with our big threephase power uses until the next day. That's the that's that's that's something that the citiz but admittedly it's also the hardest thing for the citizen to do is to change their habits from from turning the oven on at six o'clock at night to maybe pre pre uh cooking stuff on the weekend in the mornings and and planning meals and then using less energy to do it. But I mean the citizen does have uh an opportunity to conserve and change some habits but that is the hardest part and reinvest which is also another hardest part. So

I'm not changing when I do my sand but that's okay. I don't expect and so what is the effective date

the ordinance that's in front of you tonight includes the rate adjustment that's suggested by Mr. Berg. Council doesn't want to take action on that tonight. Obviously, you don't have to tell us when you want to bring it back, but it it is in front of you tonight. So, council takes action on it tonight. I guess you can put a date put it into effect on June one. Put it into effect on obviously for us is going to have to help me with dates on actually when we're reading meters and when it would apply, but effective when you take action on it is the answer. So,

and we're just proposing the rate for next year or are we that be effective when we pass? Are we affect are are we saying that yes, this is going to be the rate for the next four years unless we take action next?

No, you have to take action every time you change the rate. So, a year from now, we will be back to you in a non-s summer month, most likely in April again, saying now we're on year two of day suggested changes. These are all the things that have happened over the last year. Um, so you'll get a recommendation from staff again in April 27th to look at the second year of the adjustments. So, no, you're you would not be adopting a four-year rate adjustment tonight. You cannot. You can only do one year at a time. We can propose a plan that has been reverse engineered from capital projects, futures, markets, and work our way backwards with what we want the health of our utility to be and get to something that we're which is what Dave was presenting that he's comfortable presenting that he uh feels we would be comfortable, our sentencings would be comfortable with reflecting what he feels or what the market looks like. in 2026 and 2030 and that could change in 2027 or 2030 or even 2028 looking at 2027. So yeah, that's why we have to hit it every year. But that's the plan to get us to what the forecast is four years from now. Any other questions, suggestions, anything you want to see from Mr. Bird before we turn him loose and talk about the other parts of our consolidated fee schedule? Dave, thank you so much.

All right. Thank you. Always a pleasure. Dave, I'm okay with you sitting here until the council makes a motion in case there's any other questions. Okay. You can sit down, though. Thank you. Go ahead, Nicole.

Hey, thank you, council. Um we're talking again about title five and as you'll recall we recently um enacted brought all the fees together that were existing and acted title five so all the fees would be transparent and in one location at that time you'll recall there were two sections that we had listed as reserved one was the airport and one was the library that wasn't because um fees didn't exist and and had been adopted by by some separate bodies but because we wanted to make sure we had all of those. Wanted to proceed with the adoption of Title 5 and decided to keep those two and bring them back. So, the fees that you see under the airport are these are not new or or increased fees from where we've been. These are just the airport fees now being fully adopted library. There are there were a few changes. For instance, um the barcode replacement went from $150 to a dollar. So there were a few of those, but because it's a brand new enactment here, you don't see those as red lines because in fact the library fees had never been adopted at the council level. They were adopted at the board level and we made that shift a couple of years ago to bring those decisions to you. And so these fees are are being adopted now at the council level, but but not many changes to what um our customers at the library are experiencing already. Or if there are changes, they're minor in that adjustment that I've mentioned. the uh public works and and of course you know power fees I'll leave those separate but the public works fees again some adjustments where we uh gave a a range for um some of the green waste and whatnot those fees two things happened in that section the first is they asked for a little bit different order it helps them to provide that order in the way that it's it's s seen there so when you see the red line strikeout the red line is what we had originally enacted the the um new version is just a a different order with a couple of

different changes and you see those those red lines strike out and that just reflects the actual cost. Of course, as as you know, when we do these consolidated um fee schedules and when we adopt these as a city, we're required by state law to do a study to understand what the actual cost is to the city um and to to never charge more than what the actual cost is. And typically we see that costs are are actually quite a bit higher than what you see adopted especially in these in these very minor fees that we have included in consolidated fee schedule. So I think you'll find that as we go through this enactment or sorry this uh amendment in this particular case and the couple of additional cases that we have to bring to you in the next I can answer any questions. I don't think any questions or clarifications on our proposed amend amendment to the city code title five as you're looking through it. Next next call from the mayor is going to be for a motion. So you are in agreement with everything and that would be the motion. If you want to parse it out with different things or ask different questions then we need that you make sure your your motion reflects that as we amend the consolidated fee schedule. Mayor just real quick in 51106 schedule one residential in tier three there is a typo. Council member Smith did a really good job of catching that. So tier three it shows 601 kilowatts and above. And it needs to be a thousand kilowatt hours and above. Chad make that.

What are you changing? Gone one week and all of a sudden when you put the lawyer in charge no good.

All right. All right. If there aren't any questions, then we would entertain a motion about the ordinance amending city code title 5, the consolidated fee schedule, airport, library, public works, and public power. Think about the power more. Do you want to parse it all out? Anybody up here that knows? I do cuz I see the out. It affects us affects everybody here. That's the hard part about it, I think. Well, so does a non- rate increase. Yeah. But you don't see that. That's true.

Nothing goes gambling. You're right. Nothing can go sideways for six years. And

I had somebody ask me what we're going to do and he I said, "I don't know." And he's like, "Sure you do. You're going to group the increases and the town stays solvent and it sucks, but town stays solvent." I think you might be right. So given that, I'm going to motion that we approve the ordinance amending the city code title five as discussed with the change to the rate that mentioned. We have a motion by council member Jensen. Do we have a second? Second. Second by council member Hip. Uh because this is an ordinance amending amending an ordinance, we will go by a roll call vote starting with council member Jensen and finishing with council member Smith. M tonight I Robin tonight freaking um

I am Thank you. Motion passes. Thank you in the vote. Not that the motion I mean you vote however you want. Nothing either way. So uh motion passes. We now and thank you Mr. Bur for being here. and tell our friends in in Lehi good luck. All right, we will we now need a motion to move into close session to discuss discussion item.

Oh, discussion item. Thank you. I forgot about that. What happens when I only have an arrow not actually typing on me? Well, I am excited about this discussion item. It's a discussion item for an indoor recreation space needs presentation and uh I know council member Troxel is passionate about recreation as her family uh was heavily involved especially your dad in Brigham City with with recreation as well as probably all of us that are up here on the diets at some point in our in our individual towns and growing up. So we'll turn the time over to uh Mr. uh Oiler and Mr. horsely to make this presentation.

Okay. Thank you, mayors. Uh Chris is getting plugged in there. I'm just going to just quickly uh But we didn't need Everything went blank. What happened? Make sure it works. We've got a PowerPoint ready today to uh talk about a couple slides. Chris is going to start uh the presentation and then the last two or three slides I will take. So once it is up there, we'll get started. Some reason we're having issues here. Wireing. We did staff desk, right? There it is. I don't remember how to do it. Be careful. Click to the left. It should go. Oh, there it goes. Go ahead, Chris. All right. Think you can hear me now? All right. Um, council, it's a pleasure to be back before you. Um, just want to extend a thank you for all that you guys do in

support of our park and wreck operations and the resources that you give us to, uh, continue to operate and serve the community. So, um, information that I'm here to share with you, um, is, um, information that tells a story that justifies a need that is essential for our division to continue to offer a level of service that makes Bergam City a great place um, and makes Bergam City a healthy place through um, providing services to our community. So, um it's a 20-year summary of gym use, um indoor program participation, and then some program constraints and perceived opportunities um that I'm going to share with you. So, this first graph um is a 20-year snapshot of our gym hours that we rent from our community uh partners. Um I'm not going to go year by year. I'm just going to point out some highlights. So, I have three different five-year average segments. Um, and you can tell that the 2013 to 2017 uh was our greatest yearly average where we were over 900 hours a year that we were using gym space through community partners. Um, but as you can see, the last five years that averages uh have dipped down to 387 um hours. So, one thing that I want to make clear is that um this isn't a a poke or a jab at our community partners. Um we have a great relationship with them um and have had for years. Um unfortunately, they have priorities um because their own programs and services and stewardship um has grown or whatnot. And so um as a result, we don't have as much access. Uh but I just want to make sure that's clear that uh it's not a

poke at them for uh doing anything wrong. Um this next graph shows our participation um of our indoor uh program. So basketball, volleyball, and indoor pickle ball. Um again, there's a lot of information up there. I'm just going to focus on the two circles. So you can see that there's kind of the maintaining and healthy u participation um well just participation that is pretty healthy and maintains in that green circle. Um but when you contrast that with uh the last um five years you can see that there is a pattern of uh decline um and it's uh correlated with you know not being able to have access to as much gym space as we had um in prior years. This is just a snapshot that shows our participants by grade um as well as adults there in blue. Um and um in all again it's just another representation that shows that our participation um has a declined um and part of that is because of that uh displacement or lack of access to gym spaces that's had a negative impact on the programs and the service level that we're able to provide. And then this slide um is an illustration of our participation to population ratio um in terms of the level of service. So um you can see that kind of every five years um you know we were started back at 5% um grew to 7% and then started come back down. But what is uh more important is seeing that percentage drop from one year to the next in 2004 to 2025. um that uh just because again a lack of access with programs that have um

dissolved or had to be cancelled. And then um that scenario A and B what that represents is um I was able to find what the projected um population of Brigham City in 2030 um is supposed to be 21,300 um according to this fund source. So um if we maintained a 3% um level of service of pro participants to population ratio um we'd be serving 637 participants um with these same indoor programs um which is a little bit smaller number um by just about 20 people than our current service level. So in other words, what we're saying is does Bergam City want to be the city that in three years from now where we've continued to see growth that we're still serving less participants because we just don't have the space uh to offer it. On the contrary, scenario A would be, you know, if if we are able to um hit 7% of that projected growth, then our uh rate or our number of participants in these indoor programs would be anticipated to be 1,486, which is back up to those uh years uh like 2014 when we were seeing u that much participation. So um you know how has it affected that's some of the data but um how has it specifically affected us with you know needing space. So some of this displacements that we're seeing are practice times um training times for staff uh our actual draft nights for our basketball leagues um as well as games. In some ways, we've had to double stack um uh you know, a training with a draft night or a practice with training. Um which means we have less time to train staff. Uh it could be a lack of

confidence now in our staff because they're not fully knowledgeable or they don't fully feel confident to go out and do their job because we've just had to reduce the amount of time that we've been able to spend with them. And uh we know that one of that one of those byproducts is um a decreased quality in the experience for the participants. If if we're not given um good training to our staff, then uh we're going to see that with with our program quality possibly. Um and then some of the specific discontinued programs that uh we've had in our basketball um category, uh we've um had to uh quit doing adult basketball for both men's and women's. Um in our prime we had a winter men's basketball league and a spring men's basketball league um as well as a women's basketball league. In volleyball, we had a fall women's volleyball league um and a really robust spring co-ed volleyball league as well as a youth volley volleyball. And then um pickle ball, we had an indoor uh pickle ball program that we had when we had uh more access to indoor space. So um those are some of the the real uh displacements and discontinued programs that uh we've suffered. Um so again that establishes this idea that we uh well not an idea but just the fact that we need um more gym space um in order for us to reestablish some of the discontinued programs. We need access to uh facilities that we can do this um as well as an opportunity to grow with our community as it grows uh with some additional programs. So, these are just some um ideas of things that we uh could do and foresee doing with more access. Um tree hockey, even though it says street hockey, that is um a program that you can do indoors in the wintertime and

you know, outdoors in the offseason or summertime. um indoor soccer, having tournaments uh for, you know, volleyball, basketball, um even wrestling, you know, tournaments, um having summer camps that are sport-based in terms of, you know, basketball, uh volleyball. We could not only look at doing those in-house um but also um tap into um companies that go around and offer um maybe even higher level uh camps that need that space um that we could offer that uh space to them um to them simple you know programs things like dodgeball. The important things to consider is the availability consistency and the reliability. We saw that when we had a lot of hours, uh, we were consistent. We we were reliable and we had the available space. Uh, when you think about a customer, there's probably been times where you have your go-to store for a service or a product. Uh, the first time you go in there and they don't have it, you might think, "Oh, no big deal. I'll come back again another time." Come back the second time, um, they don't have it. Some of you might be like, "Oh, no big deal. I'll come back again." Others might be like, "Oh, maybe I need to start to reconsider." If you come back a third time and it's not there, you're probably no longer going to have that as your first place to go to when you need it. And you know, so it is with us and our programs to our community. If we don't have the accessibility um to offer these on a consistent year in yearout basis um then it's hard to offer that level of service that meets the community needs um and helps us maintain a healthy community. So a growing community and a healthy community can be built upon having available, consistent and reliable gym space. Um you know another reason of why that is needed uh for us is the community level is let's just talk about travel ball and

competitive leagues. Um they have a place um and some people might think that you know they're taking over rec sports and so you know what does it matter because you have those outlets to go to. Uh but just one reason from a financial perspective of why community recreation is important is just the price points. These are just three examples of different com uh travel or competitive alternatives in the basketball world. Um and those price points are built on rosters between uh six to eight players. Um and when you compare that with the price that we charge for our basketball league, you can see that um our community based programs are important from a financial standpoint. Um, and then a lot of times these travel leagues, um, have a lot of goals of, you know, trying to get players to the next level, which is great for those select players that, um, do have that natural talent or that ability, but when you look at the probability of who's going to make it, um, out of high school to college men's basketball and then on to the NBA, um, it's not a lot. And so, it just reestablishes the importance of community- based programming. Um to further that not only does the uh support data support that from a financial standpoint but there is um the Aspen Institute um they have this initiative called project play and in 2024 a professor from our own backyard at Utah State University in conjunction with a professor from Louisiana Tech um they did a survey and and this question uh parents had to indicate in which setting does your child regularly participate in a primary sport. You can see that community based was at 42%. Compared to travel, elite and club league sports at 17%. So again, it shows that there's a space for uh travel and club leagues. But the primary source that households look for uh for their

kids to participate is through um community based sports like recreation. And this slide just reminds us of you know the health impacts of why these programs are important and why we need to maintain um more access so we can maintain that level of service. You can see that on a scale of 1 to five um those that indicated that the mental, physical, emotional and social health increased greatly was uh significant with those respondents um you know responding at a level four or five compared to the one or two. So again, it just establishes the importance of, you know, why we need to um have space in order to maintain a level of access. Um this is just a comment from an article um reporting how, you know, wreck leagues um aren't dying, that they are thriving. And I'll just read that first one. Um this is from a director of sports and competitive events. Uh parents often spend money they don't have chasing dreams that are unlikely to happen. Recreational league give the children a chance to learn skills, build confidence, and enjoy the game without that extreme financial or social pressure. So again, you see that um it's not just us here in Bergen City that echo the importance of uh recreational uh leagues. And uh this last slide kind of shows uh again more data that um over the last year 6% of children ages 6 to 17 uh played a sport at least once. And that second bullet point they're finding that um terms of the number of kids that tried a sport at least once that that's the highest on record being tracked by the sports and fitness industry association. So I think a lot of this stuff is things that you already know. Um but it's a good reminder to uh correlate and complement our own data here in Bergen City that shows that you

know um we need more space in order to maintain the uh the healthy community um that we that we want and that we can provide in terms of a level of service that we were able to provide when we had um you know 900 hours of gym space compared to what we have when we have you know 300 hours of gym space. And um so just a quick glimpse of what that might look like if we had orange space. So um this is what September looked like in terms of the amount of hours that we got um to use a a community space um from our requests. But if we had our own facility space that we had access to, this is what you know it could look like. Um another snapshot would be looking at October. This is what it looked like with what our requests were granted and if we had control of our own space um this is what it could look like. And then the last example will just be a snapshot of December shows again this is what um our December was like with the requests that were granted to us. Um, you can see on the 16th some doubling up of different things I I had mentioned earlier, but our own space, you know, this is what it could look like. And so, um, that's that's the that's the story that's based on our own, you know, numbers that we had a lot we've had space and we've had a great level of service, but we're seeing um different level of service that we're able to offer uh with reduced space. and it's not a direction that um I want to go as a park and rec director director and it's not um I don't think the direction we want to be as a community um as we continue to see growth with our own community and uh Derek would you before I start talking

any questions for Chris on what the last 20 years of using other folks' space has looked like for us any numbers he showed comments I don't have any scientific data to bring bring uh to back this up, but I uh I'm going to say that as we bea have become more siloed and nonparticipatory in our community and more shut down, we we become angrier. I think you can see that on social media. And I'm not saying just because people aren't participating in sports, but it's got to be a contributing factor to the fact that we're not down. at at a gym watching each other, cheering each other on or throwing elbows in Councilman Smith's case with somebody else and having uh Dave Jeff referee us and throw us out having that interaction because of the uh the language that Tyler Pugsley would use on the court. But uh but I I think that that that that type what you've just presented does uh uh add or take away from from the the feel of the composite and the health of the community. In my opinion, we uh what Derek is going to present has been the mayor's dream that that I I mentioned and have mentioned in in staff meeting and the reality of what we were being faced as as we knew it was coming two three years from now as more high school sports were being uh uh added to uh to the schedule and as different religious organizations uh disallowed the use of their facilities because of of liability and risk. We knew the day was going to come that we would need something like this. And so we've been planning, we've been dreaming, we've been and we've been saving. And we not can talk about that tonight other than the need and what the uh in this discussion. So uh what Dererick's going to present is is something we've been working on for several years now.

Is there any other I I did ask a question weeks and weeks ago when this was coming. Asked for numbers. I still have not seen. Um it's nice to see the hours which that you have know we all know that you have less gym space knows that I more want to understand for example look at a Saturday with junior jazz that was done at that right here what does the attendance look like in the last five years because you didn't lose that gym space but the the attendance the attendance dropped just in the junior jazz programs. I don't want to see graphs where I got pickle ball and basketball and volleyball all mixed in. That number is going to give me a skewed number and I'm not interested. As a I'm probably the most experienced person that comes to records on this. I used to do what you did years ago and ran a gym and I draft basketball for 20ome years and for this city and I can tell you there's two parts to this. G space is an issue. Okay, we all know that especially what the school district has done. We we all accept that. There's also another question and that is the quality of program. You want to say that yeah, we are cheaper than the bantam league. I got it. There's two reasons why people are doing that. Yeah, there is that cost factor. There's also the quality of program. I get more and more complaints people who put their kids in the in those programs because the program isn't that good and they're willing to spend a few more dollars if those kids who wear the red t-shirts are probably more trained and probably more I would say backed by more adults in the gym as far as backing them up because you got a 16-y old kid running a second grade

junior jazz. It sounds all good and all. It's people like DJ and James H who sit in the stands who yell and scream. That's the problem. Not the kids, the adults. So when that starts happening, these kids in the red shirts don't have a leadership quality in them yet. Why should they deal with it? Right? So, so there's that big component and I can tell you from personal experience uh who I know in the community have taken their kids out of those programs the year the year after and went to um just down the far west in Ogden and started playing down there because it's just better managed. It wasn't the cost, it was just better managed. So, I'm all for put in the gym because that's I'm a sports guy and DJ and I go way back. I can tell you a story that when I came to Utah, we were coaching baseball. Do you remember the problem with with uh I'm coaching little league baseball here in in first first year my my boys are playing little league and I'm sitting there. We took the field. We took the field first play outfield. My kids pitching the ball. Kid gets on base because we suck. Next thing I know, next thing I know, my kids looking at the catcher, ready to throw the next pitch. This kid starts running from first base to second base. Next thing I know, the kid's running from second to third base. I said, "What's going on?" He's stealing this little league baseball. Call the city and says, "You need to look at the little league rules. There's no stealing in little league baseball. So the ball cross is home plate. So basically it's a pass ball. The catcher can't. That's what I had to teach. They made the change of the rule. They looked it up. I shouldn't have to do that. That was 20 years ago now. That just gives

you a point what I'm saying. Quality of program also needs to be looked at. So, if we're going to invest in something like this, because there's not just we're not going to just sit here and talk about a gym, how the heck are you going to maintain the operating cost? I know I going to be ex-wife is not public record. Oh my gosh. DJ told me uh she I I'm always helping her to understand and she's doing that right now. So, again, this is my background, so there's a huge operating cost to run a gym.

You're right. Tonight's about getting a facility, but yes, you're absolutely right. Yeah. Anyway, I just that's my so any comments, Chris, on that or you Well, the the one comment that I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. You you said that you had requested the numbers for the Junior Jazz for the last five years um or for a time and you hadn't got any. Um had you requested those from me? last I need you presented. Okay. Yeah, we we have them. They're they're mixed in there. I My fault. Didn't understand you wanted them parsed. We'll get it. We have it. Yeah.

I think we just have to be as an educated council if we're going to pass them this magnitude. We want to make sure we we're basically answering to the citizens, the community. This is why. Can't just say it's because of all gym space. It's like, well, just because you build it, you really think they're going to go? I was like just got to be able to answer. Yeah, we combined all the indoor facilities into one. Obviously, we have tons or sorry, indoor program

programs into one on that slide. We have each of each of those individually. Yeah, that's we we we can get the date in a future upcoming meeting. Obviously the participation level for our outside sports we have all of that but by age group by league by program I think there's a movie about there movie never seen the whole premise

now the only other comment that I had um because I think you you make a great point with the quality thing that there is a level of balance of um having you know adult leadership or a level of maturity leadership in a gym to maintain um and manage that environment. And um you know if if you guys are supportive of um of us making sure that we have that you know we have no problem with making sure that uh we you know if we get that budgetary resource to be able to have more adults in you know GMs um and we would definitely love to pursue that. Um because there is you know an advantage that comes with having an adult to take care of the rowdy crowd. Um, and I I can tell you as a officiated high school basketball for uh 17 years now and and have gone and done travel tournaments and stuff and officiate and um the officiating world is is crazy because no matter where you go, you have some great ones and you have some sucky ones. Uh and uh and a lot of times, you know, parents um they sign up thinking that they're going to get the best and some weekends they get good rest and some weekends you get those kids that uh aren't the greatest. But um nowadays you're getting kids out there who who are out there walking up and down the courts swinging their whistle like this, probably on their cell phone at the same darn time. And and that's part of the argument, too. It's just that one thing to be there and be present, but you really present,

right? And that's a that's kind of a coaching and but there's no train all you want in one night to go through the rules but on week three who's there watching who's coaching them along week after that's

Yeah. And I think you alluded to that when in your presentation was I mean you get the quality um Brigham City is known for the quality of our rec programs you know 10 15 years ago um with the expensive training that rest and I think consistency of being able to offer that employment and training to people since that they've gone down. Yeah. It's hard to find somebody that wants to get a job that works every other Saturday or something like that when they can get a better job. But if you can offer somebody with a more consistent sports related training, they'll get better quality employees also. And um and I think that's that comes with the access um to all these different and that can go into you know we I mean city pool is known for like the best trained lifeguards for how long we kept that consistent and we kept that level and I think that's what Brigham City will expect and that's what we will be delivering um at quality. Yeah, I think the only thing I was just going to quickly add, you know, for the council and I guess in direct relation to council member Jeffy's comments, um, we agree 100% as staffs with exactly what you're saying. Some of those things do come at an increased cost, you know, and I sometimes employ a higher level of person, it costs more money. That price point is very important. I'll tell you when I sat across the table from the gentleman that's in front of you tonight

and interviewed him for his current role, one of the biggest things that he talked about when he came to Brigham City to be our parks and rec director was the quality of our programs and his plan to improve those over a period of time. But I think exactly what you're talking about, Council Member Jeff, is the gentleman sitting in front of us that we've recently hired is that that is very high on his priority list. And it is it's hard to staff. You know, I got child participating you sports and exactly what you're talking about since I coach him. Sometimes you go to the gym, you got a 13-year-old junior, a freshman in high school coach drafting the game. you go to a different league, cost another $350 for those games. Have an adult official that's high school certified. You know, you gota know what you're getting when you go into those things, but it cost, you know, extra money. And that's, you know, our youth programs. We're going to continue to do our best to provide the best level service price points we're trying to meet for our community and and we're going to try to improve all of those things. We do agree with you 100%. Our we have room for improvement in the city. There's there's absolutely no question. So, any questions on means? We'll get that data. Um, you know, what what has happened over the past few years specifically? By the way, on that one slide, we've seen a huge dip with ours in 2011. There was a construction there was the de demolition construction of a leased facility um in the community that it significantly affected our ability to run programs did that

and coming from somebody that like you said if if you go there and you don't see anything you don't see what you need and then you just don't end up going back I mean I think a lot that accounts for a lot of like junior jazz participation because I mean we didn't know when we could open it up and people are used to going to Brian city sites and all this stuff and then and we've gone through such a trans and I mean even I was like know when we're going to have senior jazz and we did actually miss it for one of our kids so

and do we ever have practice time available for our team it's I mean it's gotten bad yeah and So yeah. So then we have to opt for you.

Okay. Want me to advance the slide? Yeah. So before before you do, um just a couple quick comments for me. Well, first of all, our our use of existing and brand new facilities in our corporate limits are something that we are going to continue to try to pursue and use of any available space that we have. So, what you're going to see is not to replace, it's to augment the loss that we've had. You know, I think the public's fully aware there's a new gym, you know, the Boys and Girls Club. We are in negotiation with the Boys and Girls Club now for available space in that, not just to augment time for our existing programs, but our ability to expand as our community grows. The the slide that that Chris um did with the participation percentage of our population, he dropped the number 21,000 and o in, you know, over that in 2030. If you ask DJ and Derek and what we're seeing development wise, we think we're going to be at 27 28,000 people in 2030. If you look at the growth that's coming into this city, I'm not cussing Chris in his slide. He used the data he had, but we are going to see a population growth in in the next five years that this city hasn't seen for many many years. So

40 40 years

1988 17,000 people in Brigham City 2026 20,000 people 40 years. Yeah. So just one other comment. Um I'm humbled and excited to talk about I've been in the city for 15 years. Um our gym space city owned is zero today. Uh reminding the city council we did a general obligation bond. um general ballot vote in 2015 2016 actually built some gym space in the corporate limits of the city. Um that bond felled 78 to 22. It included more than just um gym gym space for our city. But um it you know obviously our public voted. They spoke. They didn't like the number. They didn't like what was going on. So, as I talk about ideas as far as the facility, the space, and the budget, and I'm humbled that we're in a situation as a city right now through many years of prudence with having this in mind and seeing this that there is a pathway forward to be able to build some gym space in the corporate limits of our city without a tax increase, our residents, without a general obligation bond. Um, and you know, it's it's it's not immaculate. It's not huge. It's it's a Brigham City building is what I would call it. It's a new core steel building. You know, it's a it's not, you know, CMU walls. It doesn't look like um I probably shouldn't say that. Doesn't look like a a a recreation space in a huge city, but um I'm excited that honestly that we've got the opportunity to kind of talk about that. So, what what I'm looking for specifically tonight, go ahead, Chris, is we got two different designs and layouts. So, we're gonna put in front of you um and two different engineers estimates. Um what

we're looking at as staff and through the mayor and his budget process is kind of get a little bit of feedback from the city council on you know ideas as far as uh square footage and real estate and associated engineering costs and direction to move forward with hey do you like one design better than the other and here's our our estimated cost for that and us having the ability of staff to actually start going and digging into the details of engineering and and trying to actually build a specific budget that's got the specifics of everything in it. So, so really, you know, real simple, two different designs. The one you see in front of you today, um, is two full-size gyms and six crosscourt gyms for our youth. Um, you know, seating along the outside for our public. the to the left side of the screen is the restroom facilities and uh HVAC for that to service that facility. Obviously, our plan of staff maybe just specific on location would be to attach it to the existing recreation office administrative building at Pioneer Park. Um directly to the south of that facility. Um this would be attached uh to that facility with additional parking and and space available for the public to use. Um so in the orientation as you see it on the screen um to the left is south right is north. Correct. That's right. The left is north. That

Yeah. Sorry I back I went backwards. The left is the existing recreation facility. Yeah. So the right is north in the orientation. So, um, engineers estimates on what you see in front of you there is $12 million. Um, and then go ahead, Chris. The next one is a little bit smaller, um, but still has the two full-size gyms with four crosscourt uh, smaller um, uh, basketball gyms. And obviously, the striping that you're seeing here in front of you is just basketball. Um, these things are going to be striper, pickle ball, volleyball, everything, all of the the sports that Chris went through the slides and talked about. Um, and the engineers estimates for the facility right here are 9 million. So, um, you know, obviously engineers estimates these are not bids. These have not been engineered up to this point in time. Um, an engineer did draw the the footprint for us, but obviously we'd have to go through the official process through with the company to get those engineered and actually get a project out to bid so we could get the actual budget number back and publicly discuss it. But, and we don't want to spend a ton of time on detail and the interior or anything like that. Really, what we're talking about here is is the need and growth for our community. um the council's thoughts on that. You know, if we're going to build a building, obviously both of these facilities would have the ability to be built onto later down the road. Uh they'd be designed in a way that wouldn't prohibit the additional BA gym space um through the south of that the the new facility. Yeah, two rough engineers estimates 9 million for 112 for the other. And like I said, there is a path forward with both of those numbers. It would not

include a property tax increase um to to get those or a bond to get those accomplished. So, you're saying there's not we're not going to see a an increase in the budget next this coming months.

Yeah. So, operation maintenance, that's a specific question. Well, you're just saying there's not this won't affect the budget there. No, I've not said it wouldn't affect the budget. I have publicly said that it would not require a general obligation bond be issued to make the payment and it would not require a property tax increase specifically to build this facility. So yes, there would if the facility is built, number one, there'll be the facility itself would be in the budget, which would be, you know, a dollar amount more than I can't say. Is it going to be an increase? Well, probably not. There's a $33 million project that's currently in the budget on the bridge being built over the top of the railroad track. So budget overall, the mayor's going to present that to you in May. Um, well, my point is like regardless of what you're telling us, like once the budget comes out, once DJ presents the budget, there's a tax increase in there and this is in the budget, people will just assume and they're not going to know. It's all part It's all part of the budget. Oh, yeah. So, when we do property tax increases for seven of the last eight consecutive years, we tell the public exactly why there's a property tax increase. There will not be a property tax increase to build a recreation facility. A year ago, the property tax increase was specifically for um the insurance for our city employees because of uh utilization rates. The year before that, we put an extra $100,000 in the budget to do sidewalks. So, yeah, there wouldn't this would not require a specific property tax increase. I get that part, Eric, but that's not what we get outside this office because because they'll look at well, if you're not getting a they're saying this isn't the

budget increase, but then you raise the budget, the property taxes, pay 5%, cover X, Y, and Z, they're say, well, don't do the gym. You'll save money there and then take care of these other projects and you're done. That's what people don't understand. That's the that's what we have to continually educate and teach. So, so it's easy to say it doesn't pass, but end day it's kind of like semantic. So, it's not I'll I'll publicly say and I have many times as the finance director and now as city administrator for the city, Brian City is not going to do a property tax increase for a one-time expenditure of a capital facility. Property tax increases in the city are for ongoing expenditures um for for years and years to come. We've proven that over seven of the last eight years that we've done a property tax increase for the city. So yeah, that all the operating costs are Yeah, you're going to have additional operating costs. You're going to have a decrease in lease costs. Um how those met undetermined. That's that's what we're looking for. um you know is the direction from this the council to move forward with you know getting into those very specific details and being able to bring all of that with actual bid numbers back to the council through our budget process this year. Um you know obviously it's going to take us time. It's not going to be dialed in by the time mayor makes his budget presentation publicly in three weeks from now. And this is an addition onto our current recreation offices. Yeah.

So, and that and it won't require us to demolish anything on the back of that wall because that was built to um aid in an addition something like this.

Yeah. So that right in the very dead center of our recreation administrative office that we built and it's been seven eight years ago probably now. Um it it is it's built with a hallway that would open up into this facility which is a good thing and it cuts down on cost because it wouldn't require additional office spaces for employees to actually manage this property because it's attached to our current one. So that would cut down on water cost. Um my opinion is because of the increase in operating cost, I like being conservative with the smaller gym. Um because we want to actually some of that money into your your increased quality of services. that a little bit safer.

Those are just I'm going to reiterate reiterate ongoing costs versus one time money to build. So, you know,

it we we normally have never funded ongoing costs in this city with one time cash on hand or or fund balance. So that although I understand your point like we've got to figure out we we as a staff as we bring things to the council so increased quality additional money maybe for better referees those are ongoing things that have got to be taken care of through our rates not with $500,000 of fund balances spread over six years so you know I would just make a counterargument that we've got to take care of

I'm talking about that also that and you know always have to never know what's going to happen. I mean that space right there we feel like it's good to build on here but just you just never know into that whole hill it's not

and west your thoughts got a question is I I don't know if there's a precedent for a combination. I know we're doing some things with Boys and Girls Club. Um is there a precedent for a collaborative between private sectors? there's such a need there's a strong that might be a marketplace driven thing I don't know to your point I'm an at least knowledgeable to think I will to your point the answer is no and I'll reason why these are not money makers they're a revenue drain they don't make money they lose money that's not why you do it you do it provide the service the community give the kids a place to play and provide that need They drain your budget because between insurance costs, operating costs. Yeah, they do not a dollar. You people have tried to do this on the private sector. Arizona's got a big one going through bankruptcy and even Ogden did it. Tried it. The guy down there um tried it and now that gym turned into a bookstore thing. So people have tried it. It just they just don't make. So that's where government steps in where statistics can't do it but there's a need police fire those kinds of things is just not what it need and that's the question I was asking. Thanks. I think that's a great question. I think Dave's point is is is valid too. Uh but what does your community want? There's communities. We're surrounded by communities that either aren't able to afford or that's not what their community wants, right? Or perhaps they

don't need to because Breen City has I don't know. But city is what we want for our community and that's why it's for us. Would it be utilized by like many of our recreation facilities would be utilized about the the county would be utilizing it? Well, a different maybe pay scale or something. But yeah, I would say at least my professional opinion it would be if we're not going to use it and there's other parties that are interested in using it, why not run out the space um on a night that you know we don't have it. So that in mind is there potential for a collaborative between county and city partners something that's just something we've seen. Is it realistic? Um I mean maybe publicly is the only thing for me to say and you know I'm going to get quote in the newspaper when I say this. I realize that but uh the the current mayor and city administrator for Brigham City has not approached county commissioners about a discussion this with about this specifically. I will tell you that me and a previous mayor and a city administrator have approached previous commissions and had that conversation. Um, and they were not in a place financially to be able to participate and support. Um, but yeah, it absolutely is something that with direction from the council that the mayor and I could do. Thanks, Derek. I I asked it once one time partially just practicality. Is that a possibility? but also for citizens to understand we are reaching out for other alternatives to try and reduce costs and means also keeping in mind fiscal and I think to that point Dave um and I'm not going to publicly disclose uh any partners but um the city staff loan the mayor has been reaching out to a few

of our local businesses amenities um for potential public support and and those conversations are ongoing. But to to answer to part of that you said you recall it was two months ago I presented project here that team came up with the boys and girls with their gym and it nowhere. So I presented it but nowhere. Yeah it was one gym that the boys and girls club did not need. They don't need another gym fine with what we built, but there was that opportunity to to build another gym at a very legit happened and that's unfortunate. But to your point, you do find a lot of cities that I wouldn't say it's county they work with, but it is other groups like a boys and girls cities or even the school district sometimes will join force forces and build a a gym to benefit all groups. Problem with that is kind of what you're facing is city needs access their programming. So when you share it, then it then becomes a a little bit of like, well, I need it now. It's my turn. Just have to find that. Okay. Going back to when the bond was uh presented years ago, it lost pretty handily. Obviously, our needs have changed as opposed to back then because we have lost more of the schools, right? Uh what about the public's desire, but have we done any outreach on something like that to see people want more gym space?

Yeah. No, the city has not sent any surveys out on this subject. Um, you know, I think my answer to your desired question, Chris, can jump back to our participation level. Um, it we we can absolutely do a survey. The council wants us to do a survey. What I what I can say is we are serving less children and adults in our community than we were nine years ago by a large number. So, you know, some of that are because of the space, not necessarily because people don't want to.

Yeah, there's there's the the Yeah, the space, but I mean, we we it's not that only was it 3% have asked to to participate in sports. That's all that we had the space for. So there are people that have been turned away programs because it's a space issue, not because yeah, we've cut a minimum of four programs from 2017 till today, you know, because of space. We just do not have the gym space to do it anymore. And I think if you talk to a lot of the people that it was it was more about the bond and the increase. Yeah. Necessarily.

Yeah. Everybody wants one but they didn't orbit the paper. I think the offering is significantly different as far as construction as well. Yeah. Lois presented back then was like the Taj Mahal of gyms and it was bigger than the fire station. It was going to be the biggest M project in the probably in the states and obviously it's backfire.

Yeah. And people need to know that as we go we if this goes forward they definitely need to understand this. I think it's brings a remembrance for at least two city council members here. I remember having a budget discussion over $70,000 for radios and we had a citizen not want to pay for radios but out in the hallway with two of our city council and he said he'd pay all day for a new rec center but $7,000 of police radios. So, it's an interesting little dynamic

and we also need to like this isn't going to diminish any of the other programs services. You know, we're not trying to take it from the library or the candy center, the golf course or anything. It's something that we thought ahead of time. So tell me on the cost effectiveness of the six gym ice compared to

yeah I think for me and you know the rest of staff we discussed it with the mayor um this city is going to grow in population and the ROI on an estimated 3 million I know I'll get quoted saying that but all of this is an estimation until we, you know, get the engineering done and actually bid this project. But the ROI in that additional um space and the participation level with those that additional space in 2026 versus let's say in 2032, I'm back in front of you saying we we needed to add another gym. it's spending, you know, that what I would consider in an overall project like this, those dollars. Now, realizing the city's going to grow in population, you know, we've got right now the city council through entitlements, we have almost 3,200 residential dwellings that have been approved right now in the city. That's a that is a a large population growth that this city is going to experience. So that would be my argument is is you know look at the bigger facility that's going to provide a longer term benefit our our population and our growth. I'm telling you that I can I can figure out how to take care of that financially. I might you know until we get that done and designed. We don't know for sure, but you know, it's that population growth that that we're going to experience in Brigham that we feel like the bigger bigger facility of the need. Yeah. But if you own the gym with red shoulders, you have access to this seven days a week. So to your point, I'm kind of with Robin. I don't looking at this, looking at the other one. I don't see much of a difference.

Two courts. If you want to go back to the other one, I actually like I This is a basketball referee. I don't like this at all. Okay. I can't I I would make it just makes me vomit looking at going to the because your courts are too close. This the six courts are just butt up next to each other. That one I can manage. And I think this where you have the seating on the sides of the court, that's a win-win. I think for the spectators, parents, this to me is a better concept, a better design. Not I would look at it the dollar-wise. It's just as a basketball guy disagree. As a basketball guy, I don't disagree. So

spaces in between. Yeah. those those middle courts, the smaller youth courts that you know for our youth programs, they're going to work. They're not the greatest experience. I I agree with Council Member Jeff. Like the Condi, is it condandy gym? Condo and Farmington. Yeah. Yeah. And they're just like Yep. the middle school. Is outrageous. You still got two full courts. That's the added bonuses. The other design, the other one, Chris, you jump back. That that one's more similar to um it's South Ogden Junior High School. Yeah,

it's just about eight times bigger than that because there's that many more in there. But you know those you'd have drop down screens in between those two courts and you're you know your uh spectators are on the two ends exactly like this is laid laid out. There is no spectators in the middle. That's where you put the team benches. is down those middle right up next to that drop down.

This is concept too. Yeah. Even even in that big court date, there's some finessing that needs to happen there. There probably be some space. The biggest difference is the just the amount of total amount of square footage in service. So you you know this is significantly less square footage inside the facility and that's your cost. But we did want to lay the basketball courts out to see you know show that this is for that amount of square footage. That's what would fit in the difference between the two. Obviously one's narrower and longer and the other one's more square. Yep.

Do you have a spectator for this youth center? We didn't draw it on there, but you got on the right side of that screen, you could do seating on that entire wall. So, you you would have your spectators at both ends in this design, but you know, and you know, great feedback. Can you drop screen down and create that five, six space, five or six feet of space in between the two? It's tight. Then you're, you know, you you've got a drop down screen on both sides. just a spread. Yeah, that's what's kind of in the red right there. Yeah,

I mean we Yeah, great point. We can finance this design into something that works better for a basketball court. Um we didn't spend a ton of time and money on this design. So really about the real estate of those additionals for two courts in this design for the indoor running track. just that that's just anymore. That's just drawn there. Yeah. Looking at

this is a single story facility. This is not a twotory that you're you see in a lot of recreation spaces with an upstairs running track around. That is not what this is. I think one time you talked about new court coming in helping because they there was like Yeah. Great question. about what we're going to be engaging. Yeah. Well, we're going to talk to kids some community partners and we'll continue to work on that. That would help bring the cost down. Good. Yeah. Significantly. Yep. Good point. This is

Hold on. No, it would not bring the cost down, but it may bring the investment of the city's part, the building. That's what I meant. Okay. I wanted to make sure that I know the cost doesn't change but I know the investment from the city changed. Okay. Y

can I just make a comment on one thing? Um obviously as we look at the city growing in the long years um and we get more into details in a future conversation. One idea to think about with you know the idea of four small course versus six. Um, sometimes some rec centers have had issues where they get built and then it's programmed so full that there's no drop in use. And when you do have more smaller courts for additional use, um, it does lend that opportunity that when you don't have um, as many games being programmed in one night, but it does open up for the public to come in uh, on a casual basis, a dad, a mom and kid, and just shoot around even while you have leagues going. That is one uh perspective and that's something we can talk about in details when we get further down. But that is one philosophy of

$4 million. It's on quality of life. Yeah. If if our population goes to 30,000. Yes. In 2026. Absolutely.

Well, I understand how you want to. Yeah. Why don't you have you got six quarts? You only use a four one knife. That's basically two quarts, four half courts. I can run four practices. They say I got it. Yeah. Well, I think everything, you know, we're running four. This is striped basketball. Don't forget it's going to be striped everything else. We're playing on four youth courts. And then the two other ones, you know, you've got you got eight courts of pickle ball going at the exact same time or four, I guess, would be the right number. But yeah, I mean that's a that additional real estate is don't go don't get stuck on basketball is what I'm trying to say my kids. So because I do myself, I promise. That's my kids. What about What about parking in that location? Because the pickle ball is usually really full. I mean, are we assuming? Yeah, there would be a new parking lot on the west side of this facility that would tie into the Watkins parking lot. So, pickle ball parking lot to Watkins with some sort of um road in between the two that would tie those two together. We do have a master site plan. Um did I say Watkins? I meant Wadman Court.

Okay. There's I could hear him back there trying to correct me. He's got that. Thank you. Good job, Robin. Yes. WA the Wadman Court parking lot to the pickle ball court parking lot. Those would be tied together with the parking lot on the west side of the new facility.

And our you know we're we're going to do everything in our power to keep the um we call it pony league field that's currently there in place. Obviously that far west inc um used baseball field is you know it is still being used at times that it wouldn't be able to be used any longer. You want to see estimate operating cost we're going to get you know design size affects that significantly just frankly with cost of heat and power. So you know how we decide to move forward with size is going to affect that number significantly each year. These are big open spaces. They have to be heated and cooled. You know, maybe not cooled all of the time, but cooled at certain points of time. So, you know, um we're spending anywhere from 25 to $35,000 a year right now as a city renting space. That's going to be offset by, you know, potentially some rentals with others. But you know I I don't want to publicly say that because the design is significantly affects how you design the facility with um you know lighting, HVAC, all those things are subject to budget. So you know if we move down the road we will bring those costs. Um and obviously the council is not saying go build this building tonight. They're saying hey we're comfortable with this. Go get the engineering and bring all that data back for us to make an educated decision in the future. I guess I mean you can do a good job selling

I think if you're going to obviously let's say if you're going to look at this I mean we do need to know what the operating costs are going to look like because that's going to impact the budget more than anything. It's one thing to say, okay, we found $20 million a builder. Whatever that dollar amount's going to be, but I say if you're going to do it build, estimate the operating cost on the bigger gym, right? Yes. That way you scale down, but you need to really understand the impact of insurance to um equipment. Are you going to hire more staff to manage this place? I mean,

no. answer that. I can tell you that right now. There will not be additional employees.

You live here. I live by

Yeah, we we'll we'll bring those specific details back in future conversation. There are things that we need to bring back being part of that council thinking about gravitating towards the six. I was like kids were growing up. You didn't have keys with church. You didn't that was very frustrating. My kids were younger. So it has to be important for people to be able to do that. So yeah, I mean just the elbow room feels so great, but I understand the growth point of it. But yeah, that's good feedback. We've crammed them here baseline to baseline. I think if if gravitating more towards the future of of having the six courts, then we can in the design process finesse that. So there's space in between the courts. I think I think you need to look at it. So you take this big gym space, you knock it down to, you know, four courts, how does that impact your other other sports besides doing it? So to your point, yeah, don't look at just

basketball. Um, but if you could put three volleyball courts into this gym, but only two in the other one, that's something that we'll need to know. But when you do your measurements, you probably want to make sure you you line all those out. So yeah, because we're just looking at from a b basketball perspective, but I see this I can look at it based on experience and say, okay, I can put three vol. I can probably maybe squeeze three volleyball courts. It' be tight. Definitely, but the other one definitely not.

This one seems Yep. And there is that thing where um when you have less courts, you can only do so many games. And so when you're doing a league and you're like having 900 PM games with a 10year-old, you know, it's fun. And you don't know, one week it's at 5:00 and the next week it's at 9:00 and having more available kind of that kind of better time frame. True.

Yeah. Maybe just a quick question if I could get the maybe a little bit of feedback on that. Um, if the council's comfortable with the 12 million number, we're going we can we can do a lot more detail and research on this and and bring that back with all the specifics. If we're only comfortable with that 9 million estimate, then I think that's the direction we need to staff and we're going to live in those that area and we'll get something back to you with all those specific details. But really, I think that's the question is are we are we comfortable with that additional real estate for future growth of the city and and we'll bringing you know all of these details back in a future plan that if we feel like we need to parse that down and you know work on other projects in the city you know that with those dollars then we're we're comfortable with that as well. asking the question that doesn't have a lot of answers in it. It's easy for me to sit up here and say I go after the 12 million. But I mean, I can tell you there is a big difference in operating cost from just knocking the gym down 200 square feet. That's hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month in savings.

It's a big number. It's a big number. It adds up quick. Every three years, you're going to have to resurface this court. Yep. Big difference between dealing a smaller court to a bigger court. So, so you're talking, you know, between 9 and 12. Okay, there's that difference, but then the operations of it is typically different as months and years go on. So, I don't need a huge difference between designing and engineering two two different size facilities. And I think honestly that's kind of me what I'm hearing from the council is bring me two options. And I'm 100% comfortable with that if you are mayor and that's what we'll do.

Okay. So, is the council comfortable spending a little bit of money though on getting the engineering and actually getting this thing done? That's really the question. That'll all reside within existing budgets, not a budget amendment. We're going to be able to take care of that, but are we comfortable moving forward with the details and getting the engineering and actually getting this thing out, you know, to the point where we would be able to bid it and making those final decisions. When did you want to start this project? Um, we would love to start it in this summer, honestly. And it's going to take us, you know,

if it doesn't, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously as staff, you're seeing those numbers of participation drop and we're, you know, we're immediately trying to move and and we've got a path to fix those, but, you know, it's going to take a year to build this, right? So the next month or two and decision making a big deal? No, not at all. So that's that's my that's why I'm thinking in my head is if you're you really think we can build us and be ready for the summer basketball season? No way. Actually not.

No. Now if we push it to spring, that's even a stretch in the summer next year. Not much going to happen in June. So, I'm not in a complete hurry, but this time we'll see that happen, you know, a year and a half. Yep. We agree.

Not this December, but the December following. You want to make all of the That's 27. Yep. Okay. Sounds like we're comfortable. We're going to get two designs. We're going to get some engineering done. And we're going to get a lot tight down operating costs for the two facilities. Um, and you know the specifics. There's still going to be engineers estimates on construction obviously until you physically go bid the project. But we'll go to work and get something back to you in a few months. So

thank you. We need a motion to move into a close session to consider purchase exchange and lease of real property. Second Smith and then on the second. All those in favor? I we'll be mov. We're moving into close session now. Thank you for coming people. Thanks Chris. Good job. You can open it. Totally fine. Now, it's not that carbonated by flat. Mountain Dew doesn't explode. Famous last words. Put it right here.

The whole refrigerator is full of Dr. Pepper. That's your drinking. I don't mind. We're bringing Dr. Pepper coconut back out. He's trying to shoot you up.

You like it? Going back out. Yeah. Well, last year it came out only for Utah and Idaho, but now realize, well, that's too big. Yeah. I thought they were discontinued it. So I went and bought a whole bunch and then it's coming to my house. He convinced session for we can't afford to buy anything else. Yeah. Yes, I did you at this point.

I wpped. Oh yeah. long time ago. I quit years ago, but not a while. My real job got in the way. Then my daughter started playing, so that was more important. But I rat for nearly 20ome years. Been on the court many years. High school basketball's easy. That's the thing. High school high school is easy. It's the It's the AA tournament.

No one plays horrible basketball at 9 p.m. Wever County coach sometimes.

Would you do that to me? I think it was him. No. Look at this face. Is this really a face? Yes. Spend as much time alone like I

do. Love those to be able to stay. Good morning. um at in Mountain School having the gym space from the old hospital.

We were the only boarding school that had that our athletics and the ability to do that. The other schools across the nation didn't have an endorsement pool. Yeah. And the crime rate and stuff for the kids not having anything was humongous. Really? That's interesting. Yeah. Okay. And they have something every night. Even on the 20th on the reunion site, they all talk about their training on and how they went on referee in their own community or put together sports programs or went into it like that.

That's cool. Boys and girls, I threw one out there for you, buddy. Uhhuh. That was part of the statistics when they were shutting down. because we had a

I want to show badly to get on there and I nothing against Dave here, but let's say we know the county functions on 40% of bring city taxes or take our home tax money back to We paid for a lot of collabor shelter. team service.

I would say, "Hey, we'd like to do Jim. We think about the 4% and your actual other things that we've had to raise. for recycling and monthly rental has increased more a month I guess.

Hi Thomas,

I miss those days. All right, let's get rolling. You ready? Playing volleyball because I can never remember what we do. Oh, not plugged in. That's why. Here we go. Is the holiday in for sale