City Council - Regular Meeting

City Council regular meeting of Tuesday, September 8th, 2026. I want to thank everybody that has come here in person. It is always wonderful to see a full house of constituents and also everybody that is watching us on the live stream. So thank you all for attending. I want to start by introducing everybody that is sitting up here. On my far right is our City Attorney Mack McKellar. Next to Mack is Councilman Lauren Wise. Next to Lauren is Councilwoman Pamela Holder. Next to Pamela is Councilman and Mayor Pro Tem Aaron Baker. I'm Mayor Maureen Kopeloff. On my immediate left is our city clerk, Denise Hodgson. Next to Denise is Councilman Gary Daniel. Next to Gary is Councilman Dean Lytle. And at my far left is our city manager, Wilson Hooper. And I don't think I see Reverend Rob Field anywhere in the audience. Okay. Checking the door. No, I'm not seeing him walking in. That's another pastor walking in. But I tell you, I got a whole lot of backups here today. Wow.

Yeah. You have options. Well. You got drafted.

I normally would be asking Reverend Rob Field to stand up and give the invocation, but Rob is not here. But... Hi.

There it is. Look at this. I'll fill it. Okay. It's like a mirror. I know.

Charlotte, would you be willing to give the invitation?

Surely, I'd be happy to.

Would you just happen to walk right in?

Absolutely. All right. Our source, we are grateful for this day, for this space. for the opportunity to shuffle our feet in here, for all that happens, for the conversations that we have, for the business that is held, for your presence that is with us. Bless us with the opportunity to be at our best for this community we all call home, and we will be grateful. Amen.

Amen. And while you are standing there, I believe you are the pastor at Brevard College. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Absolutely. So I'm the Dean for Spiritual and Religious Life at Brevard College. I've been there for a growing amount of years, and it's my honor and pleasure to work with our younger, most times younger, and bright individuals who are shuffling into this world. So that's what I get to do.

Well, we are so glad that you do that, and we are so glad to have the college and the young folks as part of our community. And I want to thank you for your great flexibility as you walked into the room tonight.

Absolutely.

Thank you. Thank you. All right.

Would everybody please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Attention, honor, pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Madam Clerk, do we have a quorum? Yes, Madam Mayor, you have a quorum. All members are present. All right.

Council, you have the draft agenda in front of you. Are there any proposed modifications to the agenda?

Yeah, I'd like to propose that we combine items L2 and M1. I think our discussion is probably going to be referencing one or the other, so I think it's just best if we tackle those at the same time.

Put it both under, combine them both under M as M1. Right. Okay, very good. Mr. Manager, did you have a...

Yes, ma'am. Chief Wenzel and I would like to propose a modification to item M3, automated license plate readers, and I'd like to ask her to come to the podium and explain.

Mayor and Council, good evening. Over the last several months, the Brevard Police Department has spent a significant amount of time researching automatic license plate reader technology, developing policy safeguards, reviewing the legal issues, and presenting the proposal several times to the Public Safety Committee and to our community members. Through all of the research and discussion, my professional view of the technology remains the same. I believe ALPR cameras are incredibly valuable as investigative tools because I've seen firsthand the difference they can make. I have seen these cameras help locate missing and endangered people and bring loved ones home. I've been able to assist in recovering stolen vehicles, identifying vehicles connected to serious crimes, and I've seen where it has given investigators information that helped bring justice to victims of violent crime. Those benefits are real, and my belief in the value of the technology has not changed. But what has changed is my belief in that this is the right time for Brevard to move forward with it. We held the public information session because we wanted people to come, hear what we were proposing, ask questions, and tell us how they felt. And the citizens showed up and they did exactly that. We heard concerns about privacy, surveillance, the potential for the technology to expand beyond its original purpose, whether this type of technology belongs in a community such as ours and our size, and whether the benefit was worth the concern that it caused within the community. People also questioned whether the meeting was truly an opportunity to be heard and whether showing up and speaking could actually make a difference. Of all the concerns voiced, the one that I heard most clearly was about trust, trust between the community and the Brevard Police Department. After the public information session, we regrouped and we worked hard to address the concerns that were heard. We further tightened the proposed policy, we shortened retention periods, restricted access and sharing, added monthly auditing, and established meaningful consequences for misuse. Without a doubt, I believe the police department could effectively and responsibly operate this program. But just because we can responsibly implement a tool does not necessarily mean we should implement it right now. Building trust within the community is more important to me than winning the approval of technology. The APL cameras are proposed as part of a larger axon package, which also included new tasers and body-worn cameras for our officers. We will continue moving forward with the tasers and the body-worn cameras, but not the ALPR portion proposed in the budget. I was recently asked what would prevent Brevard Police Department from simply bringing back ALPR cameras at a later date without the same level of public discussion. The answer is simple, our desire to be transparent. If Brevard Police Department was ever to consider ALPR technology again, it would require significant budget requests that would come before council. Any future consideration would be handled openly with the same commitment to public information and transparency we have maintained throughout our entire process. Again, this is not a statement that we feel ALPR technology is bad, ineffective, or without value. It is simply an acknowledgement that our community has expressed significant concern, and at that point, listening carries greater value than moving forward with technology. Right now, I believe it is the best decision for the Brevard Police Department to listen. We asked for the community's voice, and they gave it to us, and it mattered. Therefore, I'm respectfully withdrawing the Brevard Police Department's request to implement a proposed ALPR program and ask that the council take no further action at this time.

Thank you. All right. All right, guys. Come on. All right. So, Mr. Manager, you are asking to withdraw item...

M3.

M3 off of the agenda. All right, council, any further modifications to the agenda?

I don't know if this is the time to say it or not, but I would like to see the agenda that Aaron proposed that we leave it as it is, L2 and what was the other one? M. He combined L2 and M1. Yeah, I would like to see them remain separate.

Okay, well, we'll have to vote on which way to go. All right. Right now, what we have is a proposal to have a modified agenda with M3, the automated license plate readers, removed, and M1 and L2 combined. Do I have a motion to approve that modified agenda?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Okay. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Opposed.

Opposed.

So two nos and three yeses. So the modified agenda passes. All right. So we've got an agenda. Council, you've got the June 5th, 2026 specially called budget workshop minutes. Are there any corrections or modifications to those minutes? Do I have a motion to approve those minutes?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Minutes are approved. You also have the minutes of the August 17th, 2026 regular meeting. Do I have a motion? Are there any modifications or corrections to those minutes? Do I have a motion to approve those minutes?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Those minutes are approved. all right we're going to go forward into certificates awards and recognition and we have two wonderful proclamations tonight all right our first proclamation is for the 30th anniversary of rise and shine and i would like to ask Maurice Jones, the executive director of Rise and Shine, and anyone else. Maurice, that you wanted to join you up here. I don't know if you brought anyone else from the organization.

I know, but there are a lot of supporters and partners.

I can see that. Okay, well, that's because it's been such a great organization for 30 years. Anyways, it is my pleasure to the proclamation number 20 26-21, the 30th anniversary of Rise and Shine. Whereas, in response to public Klu Klux Klan rallies held in Brevard in 1988 and again in 1992, an interracial group gathered by social activist Fay Walker began to meet monthly for dialogue around dismantling racism, racial justice, and reconciliation. Whereas, after this coalition called Friends hosted a series of talks entitled, quote, Racism, Everybody's Problem, unquote, at Bethel A Baptist Church, its pastor, Frederick Gordon, suggested steps to be taken to help underserved children and families beginning with the youngest. Whereas, Pastor Gordon and Fay Walker worked together diligently in collaboration with parents and community members to design an after-school program built around individual attention and the encouragement of children and their families with its signature to be daily one-on-one tutoring. Whereas the founders recruited teams of volunteer tutors and mentors from local churches and community-based organizations and inaugurated the Rise and Shine Afterschool Program in October of 1996 with a handful of students called scholars in attendance. Whereas in the following 30 years, the program has been nurtured by countless devoted community volunteers and institutions, and supported by local businesses and individuals to serve a capacity of 50 scholars each year. Whereas the legacy of enriching children, empowering parents, encouraging community, and building the beloved community of racial justice and reconciliation has become the hallmark of Rise and Shine. Now therefore, I'm Maureen Kofeloff, Mayor of the City of Brevard, hereby honor the 30th anniversary of Rise and Shine and ask our citizens to extend their appreciation for the exemplary work Rise and Shine continues to do in our community. Tell us a little bit. I think you're having a big birthday celebration, right? Tell us about that. We are.

Rise and Shine will be celebrating its 30th anniversary with a gala that's going to be held at the Bard Music Center at the Parker Concert Hall. Tickets are still available. We would love for all of you to come join us. We want to celebrate this great organization. And the great thing about it is people like you, everyone in this citizen, in this room that helps organizations like Rise and Shine. We have so many non-profits in Chesapeake County, I believe over 400 non-profits, 501c3s. And it's amazing how we support our own and how we come in and we give in-kind help, where we help fund, where we do all things to keep these organizations going. And what you guys have done for Rise and Shine and those of you who do not know Rise and Shine, we'd love for you to get to know us Please come to this event and enjoy and celebrate with us. We would love to have you.

And it's always a fun event. It's one of my favorite galas of the year. You'll be there, right? I absolutely am going to be there.

I'm one of your sponsors.

Yeah. Anyways, Rise and Shine is an incredible organization. I've been involved with it a lot longer than I've been involved in politics here. It goes way back. And they do such an incredible job with the scholars, just teaching them not just

and we're going to keep that up, right?

But they also teach them really self-confidence and self-respect and just things that are so important for success in today's world. So it's a wonderful program that supports our children, and I couldn't be happier than to recognize his 30th anniversary, and I look forward to seeing everybody at their gala. So thank you, Maurice.

Thank you very much.

All right. And our next proclamation is for Constitution Week. And we have several members of our local Wait Still Avery chapter of the PAR coming up. We've got Sharon Powell, and we've got Nina Brown. And Nina is actually... Nina. Oh, Nina. Sorry. Yes. Oh, okay. I'll get that one. But Nina is actually the district... Are you... the second first vice regent and regent okay well so we've got the big big guys here but we appreciate um you know i was just saying that you know i see them at so many events and you know one of the things that's so important today is to teach people about cynics and about the constitution and about what is important in our country. And the DIR really steps up and does that in so many different forums throughout the year. So, with this proclamation, number 2026, 22, Constitution Week. Whereas the Constitution of the United States of America, the guardian of our liberties, embodies the principles of limited government in a republic dedicated to rule by law, Whereas September 17th, 2026 marks the 239th anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional Convention. Whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to this magnificent document and its memorable anniversary and to the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. Whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the President of the United States of America designating September 17th through 2030 as Constitution Week. Now therefore, I, Maureen Kobloff, by virtue of the authority vested in me as Mayor of the City of Brevard, do hereby proclaim the week of September 17th through 23 as Constitution Week in the city of Brevard and ask our citizens to reaffirm the ideals the framers of the Constitution had in 1787 by vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us through this guardian of our liberties, remembering that lost rights may never be regained. Thank you very much, ladies.

Children and adults. And so we just try to instill that and bring that back to life. Well, I just want, I might add that we give our high school seniors pocket constitutions. So they can leave and go out in the world with a copy of the constitution. And most years in fourth and eighth graders, specifically, in their classrooms, have a workshop on the constitution. Eighth graders throughout the county.

We do a video that I'll see in the schools. So that helps. That does. I mean, you have to start teaching early.

Yes.

And I have my pocket constitution in the center of my desk in my office. Good for you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we are moving into public comment. The public is invited to speak during public comment at this time on any topic unless it is a public hearing item on the agenda. Anyone who wants to speak must register with the city clerk, which is the sign-up sheet. When it is your turn, step to the podium in front of city council. State your name and address clearly. Limit comments to three minutes or less and avoid repetition. And I will give you a warning when you have 30 seconds left. Direct comments to the full council, not to an individual council member or to staff. I will call people up in the order that you signed. Our first speaker is Ashley Hart.

Hello, Mayor, City Council and staff. Hello, everybody. I hope you're having a great day. I wanted to thank the police chief for what she said. The people appreciate the fact that you ended that. Thank you so much for standing up for the people and what the people wanted. because it's the people you have to make happy. Thank you guys all for participating in that properly. The people of Brevard do not want to be under surveillance, and I don't want them to be under surveillance either. I had a big speech I was gonna give you guys, but you guys switched it up, so I'm gonna switch it up. So it's Constitution Week, September 17th through September 23rd. The signing of the Constitution was September 17th, 1787. The United States Constitution begins with the most important three words, we the people. Those words remind us that the Constitution belongs to the people. Our government derives its authority from the consent of the governed. Preserving liberty is not solely the responsibility of elected officials. It also is required from the people to be engaged and to understand the Constitution. We have a responsibility to pass these principles of liberty and self-government to future generations. I was gonna ask you guys to vote no on it. I was, I was gonna ask you guys to please vote no on it. And you guys did that without me having to ask you. So again, I praise you guys for holding a public forum for the people to speak. I live in Transylvania County. They did not provide us with that. and it really mattered so i wanted to thank you guys it really opened my eyes up and i'm proud of you guys for making the right choice for the people that you represent and i'm going to end with the same line i was going to end my speech with we the people are where it begins and we're also where it ends thank you thank you miss hart

Okay, our next speaker is Robert.

I'll help you.

All right, Robert, what's your last name?

Jasowski, J-A-Z-O-W-S-K-I. So not only is it hard to say, I have a hard time learning it.

Good evening, thank you for having me here. So I wrote this, God's Hour, yesterday. and probably haven't slept a heck of a lot since then. But I did go through this, and I wanted to hit all my bullet points. Fortunately, our sheriff heard us, and I truly appreciate that. There's nothing like being heard, you know, a citizen being heard, and having the engagement and having the action of actually following through. So thank you very much. I truly appreciate that. I'm no fan of the... I'm no fan of the cameras. I'm no fan of the system behind it. And I'm just going to kind of leave it at that. But I don't want to keep this moving along. So thank you very much and have a wonderful evening.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Rodney Lux.

Good evening, council. My name is Rodney Locks. I live at 187 South Rice Street. I'm here to say vote no. I'm using the Rosenwald funds for the extension of the SOAR lines. And it baffles me to realize that that's your only option. There's got to be some other funding source to fund the sewer line. But the city has not given you another option. And I know in most cases you have more than one option and you have rejected those options before. And I ask you to reject this option and find another option for extending the sewer line. When you get to M3, my top priority is using the money as seed money for the shelter and the bathrooms. There are lots of projects on there that are nice. One of the projects that's not on there is stormwater. Our other big issue is stormwater. And I'd appreciate it if you think about that and figure out how to address the stormwater issue in Rosenwald. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Frankie Gordon.

Good afternoon to the Mayor and City Council Board. I'm Reverend Frankie L. Gordon and my address is Silverstein Drive here in Brevard. My home is located in Mickey Park. And my concern is the removal of the tannery. And I would like to know, I will ask the question, had the city put in place a plan to remove any creature that is located in that stacker at the moment before it is torn down? So I'll just ask that question. Had the city put something in place to eliminate them before the stacker come down? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Gordon. Our next speaker is Heath Carter. Did I get that? Okay.

I didn't write my address down on there, but it's 135 Milbourne Ridge in Pisgah Forest, North Carolina.

135 Milbourne?

Milbourne, Pisgah Forest.

And how do you spell your last name?

C-A-R-T-E-E. C-A-R-T-E-E.

Okay, thank you.

And I had come to speak on the ALPRs, but it looks like that's done. So thank you. I'm impressed. When I was in, I wish I could have got a chance to work for someone like you. That's impressive. Thank you. And to anybody that voted along with what she said, thank you as well. That's all.

Thank you.

Oh, and your support in the Rola's rule. Thank you very, very much. That helps what I currently do.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right, our next speaker is Abraham Stratton.

Good evening. My name is Abraham Stratton, and I live with my family at 21 Barbary Heights Drive off of Island Ford Road. Our family moved here about three years ago, and I serve as one of the pastors at Bethany Baptist Church right off of Greenville Highway past the elementary school and before you get to Wilson Road. I serve alongside of Paul Witt, who, Coach Witt coached Brevard High School basketball team for several years. Some of you may know him. Two things, I just wanted first to thank the council for your work on the July 4th America 250 celebration. Our family really enjoyed that and I am grateful especially for the public reading of the Declaration of Independence. As we heard earlier regarding the Constitution, I think having our citizenry more familiar with our founding documents is always a good thing. And so I'm grateful to each of you for your participation in that. And I would be an advocate for reading the Declaration of Independence every July 4th. But thank you for your work to do that. And the second thing is I wanted to let you all know that I pray for you on a regular basis. And our church prays for you. This past Sunday, we actually prayed for you in our morning service on Sunday. So in the Bible, God tells his children to pray for their leaders. So I pray for you, Mayor Maureen Koppelhoff. I pray for our city council members. I pray for our sheriff and our other leaders. So I wanted you all to know that. We're grateful for your work. And I know you sit in hard seats and make hard decisions. And so I pray for you to make decisions which are for the flourishing of our community and not for personal agendas, but for the good of our citizens. So thank you for the work that you do.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Sheila Mooney.

Mayor, council members, I'm Sheila Mooney. I live right down the street at 34 Mills Avenue. Thank you, mayor and council members. I'd like to thank the young lady that reminded us of the statement in the Constitution, we the people. I'd like to thank the chief for her statement about the importance of listening to said people. So thank you for your service to the city of Brevard. And thank you to the whole city of Brevard. Thank you for acknowledging our beautiful Rosenwald community. Thank you for understanding the value of our rich history. And because we trusted you, we voted for you. And we expect you to treat Rosenwald community with the same fairness compassion, consideration and the trust that we put into you. Rosenwald is very important to us. As you heard about the rise and shine program. It's more than that. I was here in 1988. I was here in 1998. I was here in 1963. And that means something to us. So please consider we the people of Rosenwald. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next speaker is Harvey Sankey.

My name is Harvey Sankey. I live at 51 Lakehouse Trail in Brevard. Good evening, Madam Mayor and city council members. I attended all of the safety committee meetings, the public meeting on September 1st that discussed the placing of three Axon cameras where crime data would be appropriate. The safety committee asked many questions which were answered by the chief of police, the city attorney, and the city manager. I have attended many committee meetings over the past three years And this request was among the most thoroughly researched by any committee. And I want to thank that committee for the work they did on the research, and I want to thank everybody who participated in this, in the committee, and also Chief Wetzel for the work that she did. the city attorney for the work that he did, and also Wilson Hooper for the work that he did. I am a little disappointed at the outcome, but I appreciate what you've done and how you've handled it. And I hope we can continue on with a very good relationship with the police department in the future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sankey. Our next speaker is Doug Powell.

Good evening Madam Mayor, council members and staff. I trust everyone had a very restful Labor Day weekend. I would like to commend the City Council on a couple of things this evening. First, taking your oath of office seriously and specifically a commitment to the First Amendment. As you know, any legitimate government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed, and the First Amendment is an American citizen's mechanism to voice their concern, displeasure, or agreement with a policy, ordinance, or law that is being contemplated by you, our representatives. By you and your staff organizing the town hall meeting last week to present information to us, the citizens of Brevard and Transylvania County regarding the Axon surveillance cameras, our five God-given freedoms of the First Amendment were on full display. One, our freedom of religion in voicing our rights of conscience as sovereign individuals. Two, our freedom of speech in openly expressing our views on the subject. Three, our freedom of the press with those of the media who were present, plus those who expressed their views on social media. Four, our freedom of assembly as we came together as a citizenry in the same place. And five, perhaps our least remembered right to petition our government for a redress of grievances. This is our right to freely express any complaints to those we have trusted to lead us. I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS THANKS TO CHIEF WENZEL FOR THE THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF THE AXON SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS FROM HER DEPARTMENT'S POINT OF VIEW AND THE RESPECTFUL LISTENING TO OUR CONCERNS AND THE DECISION TONIGHT. AND ALSO AN APPRECIATION OF HOW CITY STAFF MADE SURE THAT EVERYONE WHO FELT COMPELLED TO SPEAK WAS GIVEN THAT OPPORTUNITY INCLUDING QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. AS THE MAYOR SO ELOQUENTLY REMINDED US A FEW MOMENTS AGO IN in the council's Constitution Week proclamation, lost rights may never be regained. That is why we need to guard our liberties with vigor and fervency, whether that be the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, or any of our other constitutional rights. What I gleaned from the town hall was overwhelming support of law enforcement while still holding a legitimate distrust of third party data collection companies and the possibility of other government agencies to access that data too. One thing that wasn't said in the meeting was Axon entered into a commercial partnership with Flock Safety on April 2, 2020, indicating their desire for those two companies to be fully integrated and throwing around terms like vehicle fingerprint technology. It is not a giant leap to conclude that if our data is collected and stored, even if it is intended to be used only by local law enforcement, it is not a matter of if but when another state or federal agency will come knocking. And lastly, how many government agencies and private corporations have been hacked, compromised, or their data been breached? Our data being safe in the cloud is impossible to guarantee. So thank you again for protecting our God-given rights under the Constitution this past week, and may you continue to hone your understanding of its original intent and meaning as this is your constitutional duty as representatives of our dear city of Brevard. Happy Constitution Week.

Thank you, Mr. Powell. Okay, our next speaker. I'm trying to read your name. Lane Herlinger? Did I get that sort of close? Okay.

My name is Lane Hurlinger. I live at 1131 Sutton Creek Road. Yeah, and I also had a whole spiel of things to write off and read, but I'll spare y'all. Also, I apologize for my appearance. I came straight from work. I had planned to go home, take a shower, and look a little bit more presentable, but today's day kind of took a turn. And so I'll switch it up from what I wrote and tell you that, Chief Wentzel, I really appreciate you. I wanted to be there last Tuesday to be at that meeting. you know, life took a turn as well, but, um, I fully support your decision and, and listening to the people, man, that means so much to me. Um, first time I saw one of those cameras, it like, man, it felt like I had a girlfriend who cheated on me. I was, I was so disappointed, dude, my heart sunk. I was like, no way. What is happening? Um, so I really appreciate you listening to us. It really, um, you know, makes me want to stand behind you, all of our elected officials, um, and support y'all because y'all listened and we appreciate that. That means more to us than you realize. So thanks for listening and I think ultimately doing the right thing. We really appreciate it and I hope everybody has a killer week.

Thank you. All right, that is everybody that signed up for public comment. All right, we will move on to the public hearing. And we have one public hearing. It is a proposed amendment to the City of Brevard traffic schedule to add a stop sign on Thomas Street at the intersection with West Main Street. And I believe our city manager is gonna walk us through this.

Shawnee, would you mind coming up and pulling the picture up from the agenda? Yes, ma'am, Mayor. So there's an appendix to our code of ordinance called the traffic schedule. And the traffic schedule lists every four-way stop, every three-way stop, every stoplight, every two-hour parking zone. Anything that has anything to do with roads and streets in the town is listed in the traffic schedule. And to update it requires council approval. Now, what it doesn't require is a public hearing, and so in the months to come, I'm going to ask the Public Safety Committee if maybe we can streamline this process by having these on consent rather than subject to a public hearing because traffic engineering is a science, and I think that it ought to be guided by the science rather than by public comments. But in this case, the intersection in question is Thomas Street and West Main Street. This is the residential part of West Main Street. As you can see from the map there, Jordan approaches it at an oblique angle, which makes the sight lines difficult. And what you can't see on this map is that both of those sides of West Main Street are coming downhill, so this is kind of in a bathtub. so to speak, and there's the potential for folks coming at excessive speeds from both sides. We're still trying to tackle that problem and figure out some traffic calming solutions that might work. But in the meantime, we wanna make this intersection safer in ways that we know will work, and one of those is changing this yield sign. Shawnee, if you'll go down to the next picture. to a stop sign so that cars coming down Thomas Street will be required to stop and look both ways. We find that now with the yield sign there, they might not and they might pull out in front of a car that's coming down the hill on either side. The other thing that we're going to do, and we might have already done this, but if not, we're going to do it soon, is go out and trim back some foliage that's growing into the right-of-way both sides of this picture and obstructing the sight line and so we think that between changing this to a stop and trimming back those sight line obstructions we will make this intersection a little bit safer but we're not done with it yet and so for tonight I'm asking you to hold a public hearing on this proposal and if you're willing go ahead and pass this proposal so that we can go ahead and install that stop sign and repaint that stop bar there, which you can see is kind of faded in the picture. And if you are willing to take action tonight, the required ordinance is in front of you. We accidentally omitted that from the agenda package, and so it's here on the sheet in front of you if you're ready to take action.

Thank you, Mr. Manager. Council, this is a public hearing. Do I have a motion to officially open the public hearing?

So moved.

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

The public hearing is officially open. However, no one signed up to comment at the public hearing. So I will go ahead and close. Oh, wait. Is there somebody who wants to comment? I left. I will allow that, Mr. Jones. You may comment on the public hearing. Let me give you the rules. Although I'm sure, I think after however many, I think you know it. You have five minutes or less. Okay, I'll leave it at that. Okay.

Well, I just want to thank you for allowing me to speak a little bit about this. Hopefully your meeting won't go too long tonight, because I know how that usually tends to happen. But I live right across the street, so I see that from my porch every day, all day when I'm at home. I don't believe that I've seen any issues there, but I will tell you when you're coming down Thomas Street, it is difficult to see towards your left And right, so a stop sign there could help, but in most cases, most cars have to stop just so they can see if a car's coming, because you have to kind of roll out into the street to look that way. But if you're gonna do some cleanup, cutting back some of that brush, I believe that will definitely be something that will help with the line of sight coming through there. But as of now, I haven't seen much of an issue. But there is, if you're driving through there, sometimes difficulty to see traffic coming. So having a stop sign there, will it make a big difference? I'm not sure, time will tell. But it's a good thing that you're taking the time going around the city of Brevard looking at issues like this and I understand how long that takes. So I just wanna say kudos and I think that could make a big difference for those individuals traveling down Thomas and for those traveling up and down West Main because it could be an issue there but I haven't seen one over the past couple of years. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Jones. All right. Nobody else has signed up for the public hearing. Okay. Council, do I have a motion to close the public hearing?

So moved. Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Public hearing is now officially closed. I will open it up now for questions and comments from council members. And we'll start with Mr. Lytle.

No comment. I will like to see things like this go to the safety committee. I'll have to understand why it's already not. I'll get that information from you at some other time, but it makes sense to me.

Mr. Daniel? I agree with Mr. Jones. I walk quite often down this road, and I'm I've not observed any issues there. I was kind of wondering why it was an issue. But at the same time, it seems like a low impact decision financially and logistically as well. So I don't see any problem with it. I'm just wondering why it came up, I guess.

Mr. Baker?

I have no questions or comments. Ms. Holder? No comments or questions, thank you.

Mr. Wise?

No comments or questions.

Council, are you prepared to act on this tonight? If so, do I have a motion to approve the ordinance amending the City of Brevard traffic schedule?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. All right, moving on to the consent and information. The following items are on the consent agenda. One, resolution in support of the roadless area conservation rule. Two, capital project amendment, Hillview Mills Avenue culvert repair, $350,000. Three, proclamation number 2026, TAC 23, childhood cancer awareness month. Four, Rosenwald Community Advisory Board Meeting Minutes, May 21st, 2026. Five, Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee Meeting Minutes, July 15th, 2026. Six, Rosenwald Community Advisory Board meeting session notes July 16, 2026. Seven, Finance and Human Resources Committee meeting July 27, 2026. And eight, Public Safety Committee meeting minutes July 27 of 2026. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Consent agenda is approved. Moving on to unfinished business. The first item is the proposed amendment to the City of Brevard Unified Development Ordinance, Chapter 17, and the Code of Ordinances, Chapter 70, Fats, Oils, and Grease Regulations. And I believe our Assistant City Manager, David Todd, is going to talk to us about the FOG.

DAVID TODD. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor, Council. So last council meeting, we brought a proposal before you for an amendment to the UDO, Unified Development Ordinance, and the Code of Ordinances related to implementing an enforceable program on our fats, oil, and grease. As a reminder, this was kind of brought forward from a compliance finding we had from the Department of Environmental Quality reminding us that our The wastewater collection system permit requires us to have an enforceable fats, oil, and grease program, and the compliance finding letter asked us to be sure that we instated a program. So we do have a fat, oil, and grease program now, but it is not currently enforceable. had the presentation last council meeting and this evening we would like to ask if you would approve the or the i guess it's an ordinance resolution in front of you to uh approve those text amendments okay thank you mr todd council i will go ahead and open it up for comments and questions and we will start with mr wise

I feel like I'm pretty familiar with this one because we've looked at it in committee and we've talked about it a number of times. I think this could be a great program for Brevard and I really don't have any additional comments about what we've talked about before.

Ms. Holder? Trying to find again how it affects the taxes in your presentation.

Just how it affects taxes? Yes. There's no impact directly to taxes, but the fee schedule in the budget was revised in last year's budget to include the different tier levels of fines or fees that could be assessed if folks failed to follow the guidance from the FOG program.

That's what I was looking at. Okay. Okay. I don't have any questions, sorry. Mr. Baker.

Yeah, just want to thank everybody for their work on this. I know it's kind of a dense document, so I know a lot of work went into it. And I'll just repeat what I said last time. I think just encourage staff to really have some proactive outreach to the restaurants and the food service providers we have in town, including the college and other places like that. I know you've already done a little bit of that, but I think just that communication is going to go a long way to not only getting compliance, but also getting it and keeping our restaurants happy with us and not upset. So keep up the good work.

Daniel? I would just like to remind folks again that this is something that we're mandated to do. So I think it's pretty clear and I think there has been some outreach with the local restaurants and merchants as to what we're doing and why. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

Mr. Weidel?

Thanks for the work on this. The one thing that I would request is a 12-month report, penalties, inspections we've done, and any business impact that it's had, just so we can stay on top of that. And then, obviously, an education-first posture here before any penalties are assessed. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Council, do I have a motion to approve the Unified Development Ordinance and the Code of Ordinances amendments as presented?

So moved.

Do I have a second? Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? It's approved. All right, we are moving on to new business. And that is the menu of options for surplus fund 82, the Rosenwald Fund dollars. And I believe city manager is going to walk us through this.

Yes, ma'am. So I'm going to ask council and everyone in the room to sort of take a mental picture of the table that's on the screen here. because this is the funding proposal for the Cashers Valley Road sewer extension that I made a few weeks ago and that you all tabled. It does include a $25,000 contribution from the Rosenwald Fund, but as you can see, the majority of it comes from other sources. I'll call your attention to the far right column. That is the remaining balance in each of those sources after The contribution has been made, and so you can see that there is still money left in each of those accounts. Shawnee, if you would please move on to the next table now. We sent you a version of this table in your agenda last Thursday, but on Friday we got some new information, and so there is a revised version of this table on the screen in front of you. Shawnee, I wonder if you can make it so that we can see all of it at the same time.

A little, okay.

All right, almost. But here is the menu of options that we've put together for the Fund $82 themselves. As you can see at the top – well, no, as you can't see at the top, but I'll share with you that the balance is about $89,000. Before I get into the rest of my remarks, I want to say that – $89,000 isn't really enough to do any significant infrastructure improvements on its own. And so even though back in the spring when you all instructed us to do this as part of the budget discussions, I think there was an expectation that it would be applied to infrastructure-type projects. I just want to say that I don't think it's realistic to be able to fund an entire infrastructure project with this alone. This is a mix of non-infrastructure projects and the early phases of potential infrastructure projects. The one exception to that would be the Cashers Valley Road sewer extension, which we could fund entirely with these dollars if you so choose. And I think that's just luck. Just the circumstances of that, the fact that we'd be doing it all in-house means that we could do that entire project for $88,000. But that's the exception. Referring to what you see on the screen here, one through four I think are pretty self-explanatory. I do want to draw attention to the first three lines there, what I'm dubbing option one, option 1A, and option 1B. Those are permutations of the traffic calming project on Carolina Avenue. When we talked about this in the spring, that was a $14,000 project. When we refined our numbers, we discovered that it will actually be a little cheaper than that because the road is not as wide as Probart Street, and so we only need two humps rather than three. And so we can cut that cost down by a third. We can cut it down even farther if you decide to install two speed bumps instead of four. The original proposal was for four. If we do two, it'll be slightly less effective, but we think still calm traffic on that street, and we can cut that cost down in half again. That's option 1A. Option 1B is to install two speed bumps on Carolina Avenue and then one apiece on McMinn and Washington to deter folks who might try to skirt around the Carolina Avenue traffic calming measures by taking those other streets. But one way or the other, the most we'll spend on traffic calming in that area is $8,300 and in the spring you did instruct us to move forward with that and so I am expecting the usable balance to be about 80,000 if we deduct $8,300 from the overall balance. Option two is the tax rebate program, and Mayor, I think you have some information on that that might inform the conversation.

Yes. The tax rebate program is something that we have been trying to put in place for the last two years. We were not able to fund it last year. However, this year there was a grant opportunity with Dogwood. Health Foundation for a collaborative grant and the city joined with the Haven the Cove sharing house and Pisgah illegal and has put in a grant application for $500,000 it would be dispersed across those different organizations but the city's portion of that grant is is $60,000 specifically for the tax rebate program. $30,000 a year for the next two years. Today, this afternoon, I attended a meeting with Dogwood. They got 198 grant applications against the funding that they have. 40 of those grants went forward for a in-depth conversation. The collaborative grant that the city is part of was one of the 40, and we had that in-depth conversation with Dogwood this afternoon. So that is very promising. I mean, there is no guarantee, but what they said was that they are planning to fund approximately 30 of the 40 that they have identified and are actually, we spent an hour answering questions with Dogwood, and that they would be announcing the awardees around the middle of October. So because we have this grant out there and because it is looking so promising, I would ask council to hold any tax, you know, dollar funding of this in abeyance uh you know until we hear whether or not we actually get that grant uh because if we do then there would be no need to fund it out of this fund or any other fund so that's the latest as of three hours ago

Thank you, Mayor and Council. By the way, the HR and F Committee approved a revised set of guidelines for that program. We haven't brought those to you for approval yet, but if it looks like this is going to be funded somehow, we'll bring those guidelines to you for full approval before we implement the program. Number four, of course, is the sewer extension I just described. And then five and six are the ones that need a little bit of explanation, six being the one that is different from the table we sent to you last week. Five, Carver Street Supplementary Paving. At the moment, only portions of Carver Street are scheduled to be paved here in the next year or so. And even those are far enough down our paving list that we need to get our quotes back first before we know how far our dollar's gonna stretch and whether those are gonna be delayed even further. But if the pricing comes back as we expect, segments of Carver Street should be paved in the year to come. But it would be a patchwork. It would only be the sections that are damaged the most. And so number five would add some money from this account to our Powell Bill funds, supplementing them so that we can fund the entire stretch of Carver Street from Oak Lawn to the city parking lot there. And then number six is the one that requires the most explanation, and I might need David to step up to the podium and help me out. But six is a proposal to use some of the Fund 82 balance to fund the design and engineering of a larger capital improvement project to Carver Street and its intersection with Oakdale. Am I getting the roads mixed up? The street that runs by the church there. And this project would see the Carver Street sidewalk widened, made more ADA accessible, and the intersection of Cassius Valley Road and Oakdale near the church improved to enhance pedestrian safety. However, the cost of that project, the construction cost of that project would be probably $600,000 to $750,000. And so we would need to find a new funding source in the future to actually pay for the construction. But this money would pay for the design and engineering so that we could have bid-ready documents to release on that project. That project would be Powell Bill eligible. So Powell Bill could fund the whole thing or we could supplement other sources with Powell Bill. But if you chose to spend Powell Bill on the construction of that project, it would be about three years worth. And so it would delay paving of other needed streets across town for three years in order to construct that project. But David, if you can go into a little bit more detail about what that project would include.

Yes, sir. I think you did a good job of explaining it. The sidewalk portion that we are speaking of specifically, I have to look as well because I will say them backwards every time. From Oak Lawn down to Oakdale is where the sidewalk would be put in place. And it would narrow the road about a foot to allow the sidewalk to be made wider in the street direction by about a foot. then it would at places right now there are utility poles in the middle of the sidewalk or on one edge of the sidewalk that restrict the width of the sidewalk adding that foot does not resolve that uh... the width of the sidewalk that's needed for an accessibility issue so we would obtain uh... encroachment easements on the few properties that have utility poles in front of them to allow the sidewalk to come around the utility pole in those places so that we would have a fully accessible width sidewalk in addition to a wider sidewalk. Another kind of complicating factor is that that sidewalk crosses many driveways as it comes down Carver. So there would have to be improvements made and ramp adjustments made everywhere the sidewalk crosses those driveways. So that would also require us to get a permanent encroachment agreement to basically tear out and rebuild part of the sidewalk as well or excuse me the driveway as well as a temporary construction easement because that would go a little further up into the driveway to get the slopes set correctly right so you know we may be working in three foot of their driveway but we may have to report six foot of the driveway to fix that and then down at the bottom of the road right now where Carver, it's not the bottom. Carver actually continues over to the culvert. It's a little confusing. It ends at Cashers Valley Road. But where Carver intersects Oakdale, the sidewalk there to Mary C. Jenkins is... non-continuous for missing about a hundred foot section of sidewalk and that has to do with our current inability to get an easement from that intersection to mary c jenkins center so this project would take advantage of the width of the road to narrow the road a little bit move the sidewalk into the the road and make a connection so that we would create a little landscape buffer and have that full connection from basically the church all the way to the Mary C. Jenkins Community Center, and then it would take that intersection and add proper crosswalks and accessibility ramps to all of that. So it's a very full project. One thing, if the work were done The paving work is done first, and then we do the sidewalk. We're going to end up tearing up some of the new paving work to do the sidewalk work. So a proper construction sequence would really be to do the sidewalk work first and then the paving work. Now, that's not to say it can't be done the other way, but it will wind up in new asphalt that in turn has patches on it. Mr. Hooper, anything else you want me to add to that?

The one other piece of information, counsel, that I think you need for your discussion tonight is that none of these are time sensitive except five. If you think you're leaning towards going for number five, we need to know that soon because we wanna let that contract as soon as we can. It's out on the street now, we're waiting for bids. We wanna be able to act on those bids as soon as they come back in so we can reserve our spot and get that paving started as soon as possible in the spring. And so it would be helpful to know what the scope of that contract is gonna be. And so if you're leaning towards five, we'd like to know that right away. If you're leaning towards any of the others, then it's less important and you can take another week or so or another few weeks to decide before you give us our direction.

One more piece on that, too, is it's two years worth of Powell Bill spending. So it's roughly $500,000 worth of Powell Bill spending on the paving that will occur. So it's a substantial amount of paving that I just don't want to miss our opportunity to get a slot to get on the contractor's schedule.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Okay. Well, Council, I'm going to open it up for comments and questions. And we'll start with Mr. Lytle.

You might want to stay up here, Todd. I just want to make sure I'm following because... got lost a little bit between five and six and all that. So most of what you were discussing was six, correct? Yes, sir. All of what I was discussing is six. And so what I heard was is that if six were the option, I believe I heard that it would delay or it would redirect dollars from other projects, is that right? Did I hear correctly?

If we chose to fund this with Powell Bill money, which it could be fully funded with Powell Bill money, it's estimated to be somewhere in the $600,000 to $700,000 range, which is about three years of Powell Bill money, which is all the money we use to pave. The entire? Yes, sir. Yeah. So it would move paving from other areas if we used Powell Bill funding.

and otherwise we could try to find another source. And then if we were to choose five, would that be sort of lost dollars in work if later on we decided we really wanted to do six and find the funding for it? In other words, we pave sections with what's already scheduled, we supplement that, right, we pave. then we want to do the intersections and the complete improvements. We would have to repave again, is that correct?

We wouldn't have to necessarily repave fully, but it will, for whatever reason, the way the pavement condition assessment is done, it breaks Carver Street up into four sections, and those are prioritized differently. They're not kind of prioritized top to bottom. So, for example... Cunningham to Jordan is in the highest priority category. Oakdale to Cashers Valley Road is in the highest priority category. Oakdale to Cunningham is in the next year's priority. And then Jordan to Oakdale is in the next year's priority. So, you know, if we were to take this money and if we were to spend current Powell Bill funding to do Carver, you would have one little piece up here and one little piece down here. Then when the sidewalk is done, that... work would be cut especially if we move the the sidewalk into the road so we'll have to patch some of that back so it'll just your nice new asphalt section is going to now have a patch on it right um so the um Can I add another? Sure. Mr. Hooper, do we want to discuss the other option we had talked about with accessibility?

Yes.

So one other possible option would be to just do sidewalk enhancements where the utility poles are in the sidewalk. And there's one place I think you're familiar with. There's a wall and a utility pole both on the sidewalk. so we could address just those portions of the sidewalk to help with the the width and the traversability of it it doesn't make it accessible it doesn't make it any wider it doesn't fix any of the driveway crossings but that would be an another potential option to help the sidewalk that's probably i'm i'm guessing it might be twenty thousand dollars to to correct those two items that then might get further adjustments when the whole sidewalk was done.

OK. And 1B is two speed bumps on two separate streets. Sorry, can you explain? Four speed bumps.

Two on?

Oh, two on each.

Two on Carolina, one on Washington, and one on McMinn. Got it.

and that's to prevent from redirect of traffic trying to get around the speed bump. Well, you know, first of all, a full public disclosure, I live on Carver Street, but I promise it's not because I live on Carver Street, but it is, but it does lend itself to me knowing what the issues are. If you're getting to this nice, new, beautiful community center from downtown and you want to encourage walking, Carver Street is where you're going. And today, there are lots of falling hazards. There's footprints that folks can trip over. And like the manager said, there are utility poles that have concrete blocks around them, which is also a hazard. And also, I have a family member, and I'm sure there's others, it's actually impossible to get down Carver Street in a wheelchair. It's impossible. You have to actually wheel in the road. So for all those reasons, I think it is important. And so for me, and another thing I would think, can you help me understand, since there's a large, and a sewer budget, and this budget is so small, why are we proposing to take 25,000 from this budget into a sewer and not use sewer funds?

Going back up to the table before I answer. We've been deliberately trying to build up our reserves in the utility fund in preparation for the big expense that's on the horizon, and that's the wastewater treatment plant. Also, the Cassius Valley Road sewer extension is really a general fund project because it's in support of housing, which is a general funded endeavor. I didn't think it was fair to tax the savings in the utility fund that we know we're gonna need for a voluntary project when we had another source of general fund dollars available for voluntary projects.

Well, when we discussed this, and obviously there was some opposition, but we ended up that these funds would go to infrastructure projects in the Rosenwald fund. And at that time, and I still believe the same way is that those should be visible projects. And especially since we do have another fund specifically earmarked for sewer. I think those are the funds that we should use for this. And the $25,000 in that fund, represents a pretty small percentage, whereas in this fund, they represent a really large percentage. And I appreciate the fact that there's a lot of projects that because it's not a lot, complete projects are few and far between, but there are some in here. and namely Carolina Avenue. I think that's a visible project that goes straight to the neighborhood and it's something that we know we need to do. And then I would advocate for and I know we don't need to make this decision tonight But then again if it is number five we do I would advocate for number five Those are two complete projects that would be done with these funds and they're also visible and they were also would Would relieve dollars from the general fund in What would otherwise be used from the general fund? So that's that's my thoughts those two. I

Thank you, Mr. Lionel. Mr. Daniel?

So my first point would be that we did say that we were going to do the Carolina Avenue traffic calming in our earlier meetings. And I would say that I would personally prefer 1B. simply because, as was pointed out, to deter evaders, that we would hope to not create a problem somewhere else by calming the traffic on Carolina. So that seems to me to be a given. The tax rebate program, I'm not sure why it's on here because, as was pointed out, this was intended to be for infrastructure in the Rosenwald community, and this is obviously not infrastructure, and it's not, I don't think would be limited to the Rosenwald community. Is that not correct?

That's correct.

It would be citywide, which would be great. I think it's a great idea. I'm just not sure how it comes out of this fund after the discussions that we've had in the past. The Silverstein Park money, the seed money for the Silverstein Park shelter seems to be a workaround to some of our reluctance to fund this at this point. So I'm not in favor of that. The HACC, Cashier's Valley Sewer Extension has to happen in my mind. That's a priority whether it comes from here or comes from the sewer fund, that's obviously something to be discussed, but if I were spending this money, I would be making sure that that happened. And then Carver Street, if it's already in place, as I understand it, that's going to happen. regardless of the funding from this fund, is that correct?

Portions of it.

Portions of it. Yes, sir. Again, my priority is going to be the housing period. That's all I have. Mr. Baker?

I'll start with a basic question. So why is... Duke Energy, a multi-billion dollar company with record profits, allowed to put telephone poles in the middle of sidewalks? You may not have an answer, but. This is a thing that happens all over the city, and I know that we have happened to run into issues with Duke asking them to move polls previously and it's like, takes an act of Congress to even get them to consider it. And then when they do consider it, they give you a price tag that's like astronomical. And I just think as a small city that's trying to do what's right for people to move around safely, especially people who are handicapped or in a wheelchair, It's just absurd that Duke Energy is not willing to help out with things like that. And that we're the ones that have to go around their polls. And I've seen them replace a poll, put it right back where it was, which I don't even know how that's legal. Because if we replace something and we don't bring it up to ADA compliance, then we're in trouble. but Duke can just plop in a brand new pole, restring everything up, and good to go. I know that's a tangent from what we're actually talking about, but it just drives me nuts, and I would actually like us to talk to our representatives at Duke about helping us out about this, because it's not just carver street. Carver street's probably the worst situation because it's on an incline, and there's some other things going on there, but we've got this all over the city, and it drives me crazy. Okay, so back to this. The question on number six, the construction of that, I know you put a pretty big price tag on that, 650 to 700. Is there any part of that that can be phased, can be done in phases, or is that all or nothing, all at once?

I think you could definitely phase it. You would probably spend a little more money in phasing it. I mean, you could choose to do the top third of Carver coming down the hill or the bottom third coming up or half of the road. I mean, I'm sure we could do that. But because we're narrowing the road, you know, we'd have to – some kind of transition that you had then later remove the paving is included in that number the paving could be patched and delayed but it's already in you know really rough shape we could leave out the crosswalk at the bottom but I think that's a lower cost item than what's there the number here is design. Having that design done would allow us to more fully and carefully budget. We could put it on the street and see what it actually cost. We might make a decision we couldn't afford it once we actually had a real bid number. um but there are there's a significant amount of design work that has to happen with the easements being acquired that's part of this is assuming we can get the easements right because every every driveway every yard that has a utility pole one of the houses has a little like garden wall that'll have to be moved and redone It potentially has some impact on the church. There's a set of stairs that exit the church on the one end nearest the sidewalk. I don't think it's impacted, but it might. We would want to look at that and make sure that we didn't do anything that impeded or changed that if we did anything on that end. But I think there's some opportunity, but it would ultimately cost more money.

Right. Well, I really, I guess I feel like that sidewalk enhancement is, it's a high priority for me. I mean, I travel that way a lot and walking or driving or on a bike and it's pretty clear that the sidewalk infrastructure there is just, I mean, it's probably the worst. we've got in the city. And we're going to have to address it at some point. I understand that's not visible. And it's tough to assign dollars to something like that that's not going to be a completed project. But we do need to plan for it. And we don't have the money to plan for it right now. the on the on the house the housing front and the hack project I just want to remind everyone that this is kind of it it's connected to a grant that we're that we've applied for that I can't remember the total amount of the grant. Do you remember? Six million? Is Emily over there? I can't see her. Oh, she is. Okay. And if we get that grant, not only would it build 26 homes in Rosenwald that would be affordable and home ownership, not rental homes, home ownership. But the grant also included a million dollars for home repair for existing homes. And those are restricted to, or not restricted, but we would focus those efforts in Rosenwald as well. Homes that need a new roof or a ramp for someone to enter them, that's a million dollars that would go towards existing homes to update them. So in my mind, I mean, that's a great return on investment of building the sewer project so that that, grant can move forward, and being able to build, not only build affordable homes for folks, but also repair existing homes in the neighborhood. And then finally, since Dean got us started talking about where we live, I live on McMinn, and I appreciate the idea behind putting speed bumps not just on Carolina but also on the surrounding roads so that people don't cut through. I will say that Washington, if you live over there or travel those streets, the exit of Washington onto Silverstein is crazy. There's like a, what is that, like a five foot drop, six foot drop? and I I find it hard to believe that people would want to navigate that it's kind of its own traffic calming so I'm not sure a speed hump is necessary on Washington and I would think about maybe allocating that somewhere else maybe we get an extra hump on Carolina but but I do agree with Gary we did in the budget you know I think there was consensus that we would move forward with those traffic calming projects and we've continued to hear from folks on Carolina and other people in the neighborhood that that speeding is an issue over there. So my personal preference on this, and this would be a bit of a compromise here, would be we move forward with one of the traffic calming measures at $8,300 we move forward with the Carver Street sidewalk enhancements, and then the remainder, which I have as $20,669, so that's, you know, $4,000 and change less than the original $25,000 request for the hack sewer, that we do that as well. So that would be three different projects.

Right. So I've got $60,000 for the sidewalk, $8,300 for the traffic calming, and then the difference

of the total that what's left in the fund I had at $20,600. So we would use that for the sewer extension. Ms. Holder?

Okay. I have lots of comments and questions. The first thing that comes to mind is, first of all, I would like to hear from the public, hear from residents about what they want. We see the six options. I can give you my opinion and my option, but is that what our constituents want? So I'd like to hear from the public. I'd also like to hear options about what we can do about the sewer extension. If this money were not here from Rosenwald, how would you address that problem? Perhaps we could go to the developer or find other ways to do it as has been done when other homes were built. So that would be my next question is to give us options. As one of our citizens has already asked us, I want to highlight that and say even more so, I'd like to see options for the sewer extension for cashiers. This is not the only option. It can't be because Rosenwald's money has not always been there and we have other sewer projects that are complete. So I'd like to see other options. Silverstein Park was promised a restroom and a shelter years ago. I've been hearing it ever since I got here, that they were promised that years ago. Still don't have a restroom, still don't have a shelter. And as was pointed out before this conversation began, if there is seed money there, it may be easier to find more money and people to invest so that Silverstein Park can have a restroom and a shelter. How are the roads and the sidewalks paid for now? And how did this, to your point, the sidewalk in Rosenwald get to be the worst in the city before it was addressed even now? So that's another concern. We have already given $11,000 or $14,000 to the soccer field from this fund. And so we're chipping at it bit by bit and there still won't be a shelter and there still won't be a restroom. So I would like to see what the other options are. It's a small budget. To Lytle's point, it's a small budget. It's not that much money. $89,000 is not that much money. And so I feel like that there can be other options to address these other problems and get back to maybe the promise that was made years ago and address that. When another community came and needed speed bumps, it seems like it happened expeditiously. And so why are we having to go into this fund to get speed bumps? And so those are my questions, those are my comments, those are my concerns. And I would like to, before we move forward in this and not make a decision tonight, to get comments from our constituents, find out what everybody wants, and let's be in agreement with this.

Mr. Wise?

Yeah, one question first about the... HAC Housing, we were talking about time-sensitive projects. Is that not a little time-sensitive to get that funded, whatever way we choose to do it? I mean, there's gotta be a finite timeline on this.

Well, we've made the commitment.

Yeah. Well, that's what I'm worried about.

That's right. And so we've sort of reset the shot clock a little bit by making the commitment. But we don't need to know where the money is coming from until the invoice comes due. And we don't expect that to be until when do we learn about whether we received the grant or not.

We're hoping to find out about the grant in November. We then would need to move pretty quickly on the actual, excuse me, on the actual construction of that because not only would it be contingent on that federal dollars, but HACC would then be able to move forward with their project and slot in some other funding sources. But I will just, as a reminder, sewer extension is part of our agreement in giving HACC that property for affordable housing. So it's part of a larger agreement for that site to be able to be feasible for housing in the first place. So though the actual construction on it is going to be on a quicker timeline if we're able to get this grant, it is something that was still part of the contemplation of the site in the first place.

Okay, thank you. So we made a very clear promise, I feel like, during our budget negotiations about what this, you know, remember this money was moved into Fund 82 from our general fund and we made a promise to keep it there for infrastructure dedicated to Rosenwald. as a commitment to that community and to the needs of infrastructure, which may or may not have been neglected over time, and so we're trying do what we can to improve that infrastructure improvement. I will also say the number, top two things that I hear about and I think most of city council hears about is affordable housing and sidewalks and streets. Those are certainly the top two that I hear about and people are, there is no housing in our community and all over the city, now Carver may be one of the worst, it's not the only worst one, we have issues. And Rosenwald is lucky because it's the only neighborhood that has a discrete fund right now that we made a promise to use for these exact projects. So I want to honor that promise and use this for those kind of infrastructure projects. And as Mr. Baker said, the housing, HACC housing to me is critical because one is the number one thing we hear about. It is home ownership and it could provide a million dollars for home repair targeted in Rosenwald, which is an opportunity I think we cannot pass up. And then, Carver Street, my mom was in a wheelchair for a long time and I've actually seen people on Carver trying to negotiate that street and I just don't see how if we have the option to move forward and fix it that we don't. I think it is one of the worst sidewalks in the community and I can't justify why that is the case but we have a chance now to fix that and I feel like that's really critical for us. And finally, during our budget retreat, we did make a promise to deal with Carolina Avenue. I mean, we made that clearly, we talked about it. So for me, I love all the things in this list, and I think this is why making these decisions can be really challenging, because yes, I would love to fund all of them, but we can't do that. So we have to prioritize And when I hear what the public tells me about what their priorities are, I think this list sort of begins to sort itself. And so that's why I would be in favor of the Carver sidewalks. I'm very apprehensive about paving Carver and then having to go back and tear it back up. To me, the housing is critical. I don't see that that's so important. And then we did make a promise to Carolina Avenue. That's all I have.

Ms. Holder, did you have another comment?

I do. For Emily, she's still there. She's there.

Yes, she's there.

When the promise was made to provide the sewer extension, where were you all thinking the funding was coming from at that time? Because this funding was not brought up.

It was.

Well, the first part of that, I guess, is that the total project cost, and it's eluding me right now what the original project cost was, but the project cost went up significantly with the culvert improvements and expansion that needed to be done. So that made it much more expensive than originally anticipated because of the route it needed to take. I cannot speak towards the remainder of that.

Do you know how much more?

I can get it in one second.

And it's not that you all know how I feel about housing. I feel very strongly about it. I don't disagree. But I feel like this project was already discussed and decided upon to build a housing project and provide sewer before the Rosenblum money came up. And so I'm trying to understand why we're trying to put it in there. In other words, look at other options.

Shawnee, while she's looking, would you bring the other table back up on the screen, please?

And then the other issue with the million dollars that's been mentioned a couple times, I think that we need to do something to provide trust in the community. I've been told that historically there was money that was given to the Rosenwald community, a grant, correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't see what was promised. And anybody can correct me if I'm wrong. So I think that we need to build up the trust in the community that if this million dollars comes, who is it going to serve and in what way? rather than just getting a little trash can or something. So y'all know I'm transparent, and I'm just trying to get to the answers and get to the bottom of it and be fair. When it comes to the infrastructure with the streets, Carver is in need of repair, and so is Mills Avenue. It's poor. and I've been driving that route since the detours there, and it's in poor condition, and both roads lead to the center. Thank you.

Councilmember, this is the funding strategy that I proposed for the sewer extension a few weeks ago, and note that it did include 25,000 from Fund 82.

Okay, I understand that, but I'm going back before three weeks ago, even to last year, when we talked about building the housing in on cashiers. We weren't talking about Rosenwald money at that time.

I can't speak to that, but the original cost estimate was about $40,000 for design and materials with city staff labor. And then because of the added complexities of the area, the proposal was at $88,400.

So where was that coming from when the promise was made to provide the sewer?

It was unfunded because there wasn't a time crunch. That was when we set the budget. We didn't know that we were going to apply for this grant. That was going to accelerate the schedule as much as it did.

So can we get other options?

Well, so as you can see in the right-hand column there, those are the options you're providing. Yes, ma'am.

I would like to see Rosenwald taken out of those options.

There's $2.4 million in the sewer fund. They could take $25,000 out of that.

The state just doesn't want to.

The sewer fund has $2.4 million.

Yeah, I'd like to see all the options. The sewer fund is there.

Okay, thank you. We have additional comments. Mr. Lytle?

Yeah, I just, you know, I want to try to reiterate in case... Folks didn't hear my first comments. $25,000 on an $88,000 budget is a pretty large percentage. I'm terrible at math. I'm sure somebody knows what that is. $25,000 on a $2.4 million budget. I'm not sure why we're even discussing it, to be honest. Take it out of the fund that water sewer is meant for water and sewer. And if all you need is $25,000, I'm not sure why it needs to come out of anywhere other than the water and sewer budget. It's not like there's $500,000 shortfall where we need to find other areas. $25,000 taken out of that budget out of the fund balance, at the end of the day, I'm not sure why we need to redirect any of those dollars to take $25,000 out of an $88,000 budget. And also, I just wanted to say, affordable housing, obviously, but remember, anyone, including folks that don't live in Transylvania County can, take advantage of the housing that's going up in Rosenwald. They can. Obviously, we're doing our best to communicate that to the folks in the community and the folks Brevard, folks in Transylvania County, but the most recent communication that I've heard is that very few, very few so far are, you know, currently live in the community. And that's no one's fault. That's just the reality. So the housing can happen, but this isn't, it will happen whether or not $25,000 is taken out of this fund. So let's, again, I say, you know, let's put it in infrastructure projects that are visible. $60,000 for engineer drawings, I know they're necessary. But I think that we get a finished product if we supplement the power bill, the work that's already being done. We get a finished product and it's safe right away. And I would say that that street, is likely used, it's likely a very main thoroughfare to get from downtown to the community center and back. Not to say that folks don't come from other streets. So again, I'd reiterate, I'm not sure if it's a debate that we should be having, to be honest. $25,000 taken from the fund that it's earmarked for, water and sewer, and Carolina Avenue, I think we're all in agreement on that. And then, again, I would advocate just to get the project complete and safe and folks can walk up and down the street.

I'd like to make a comment. Yes, Mr. Dana.

So I was against establishing this fund when we discussed it in our budget organization. I felt like it was creating a fund just for one community at the expense of the other communities in our city. And so now we sit here, we created this fund for infrastructure in Rosenwald. And now we're sitting here having a debate about not spending it for infrastructure in Rosenwald because the HACC community is in Rosenwald. We are talking about sewer infrastructure. And the people who will be living in those houses are gonna be citizens of the Rosenwald community. by the fact that they live there. So I don't understand why this is a problem, why anyone would say that we shouldn't spend this money on this sewer system. I mean, if there is money elsewhere, that's fine, but I think the point's been made that that money's needed elsewhere as well. So this is money that's unallocated, What we're trying to do here is allocate the money, and this is a small amount that's coming out of a fund that was created for this purpose. So I don't get it. It's $25,000 of infrastructure in Rosenwald, which is what this fund was created for. So I'll just say that.

Thank you, Mr. Daniels.

Madam Mayor, may I make, sorry, I know this is around Robin.

Yes, go ahead.

I just, I do want to say that in terms of this 2.5 million water sewer, I want to remind people that we are on the cusp of a $80 million wastewater treatment plant. So I don't know what the percentage of 80 million and 2.5 million is, but not to mention that we also would love to, we're looking at a new water intake because we only have one water intake plant. So not to mention the, David, I don't know how many miles of underground infrastructure we have to maintain in terms of sewer and water right now that we just finished mapping. and have found multiple issues with. So I think it's a bit disingenuous to look at this 2.5 million as just money sitting around with no use. It's actually so over-allocated at this point with all the other infrastructures that would improve the entire city, including everyone who lives in Rosenwald, that I would just be careful about thinking of that as just money whereas we do have a discrete fund specifically for infrastructure improvement in this neighborhood, which is what we're talking about that here. So just be cautious when you see a number and try to figure out what that's really being used for. That's all, sorry.

All right, well, we've had quite a good discussion on all of the options that the manager has put forward. As the staff report said, there was no action requested tonight. This was for information and discussion and to give the manager an idea of where people's position was. So you're not looking for any actual motion or vote this evening, is that correct? That's correct.

It sounds like I've got a few follow-up items that I'll bring back in the weeks to come.

Okay. Very good. All right. We will quickly move on to our last item of new business, which is the appointment of at-large member to the Acoustic Trail Advisory Board. And I believe Mr. Lytle is going to present this.

Sure. The Acoustic Trail Board met. We have... Vacancies on the board we had applications from great great two great candidates that submitted And we decided that given where we are In the process for the acoustic trail board that mr. Joseph Moore Was The strong the strong candidate that we'd like to put forward so we're asking for that that appointment for Mr. Joseph Moore to fill that seat.

Council, do I have a motion to appoint Joseph Moore to the Acosta Trail Advisory Board? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. Open it up for any other discussion. Ms. Holder? No comments. Mr. Wise?

You know, the name is strangely familiar, so I feel confident in this.

Mr. Baker?

I have no comments.

Mr. Daniel?

No comment.

Mr. Lytle?

No comment.

All in favor?

Aye.

Motion passes. All right, that is the end of new business. We will quickly go through final remarks.

Oh, I don't know about that.

Oh, yes. All right, and we will go ahead and we will start with Mr. Wise.

I have no comments.

Oh, excellent.

I'm basking in the love and I just... Ms. Holder.

Okay, I'll take his time. That wasn't the implication. I don't have many, but I do want to say thank you, Chief. Thank you. I know that took a lot because when a leader makes a decision to do something, and we have to go back on it. It's not without clear thought, the process of letting go, but also the process of realizing what the people want. And you did both. Thank you. To the the $2.5 million to Lawrence Point, the $25,000 in Rosenwald, I hate to keep beating this horse, is only, it's about 1% of that 2.5. Am I right? I'm not a good mathematician. But it's not that much money for money to Lytle's Point that was already set aside for sewer. So I will always hold to that. I just had a realization here that is bothering me. I heard someone say that the citizens of Brevard, I mean the citizens of Rosenwald, and we should feel lucky that we have this money in Rosenwald. I think we, if we can, wrap our heads around, myself included, that we're not just citizens of Rosenwald. We're citizens of Brevard. And if we look at each other like that, we won't even have to have these conversations. All of the roads will be equally well taken care of. We wouldn't have to have conversations about where money is coming from the sewer because it's in Rosenwald. I think if we look at each other as citizens of Brevard, And not you live here, I live there, but we all live together. We work together. We eat at restaurants together. I don't go to a restaurant and say, I'm a citizen of Rosenwald. I live in Brevard. That's what's on my driver's license. I live in Brevard. We live in Brevard. Amen? That's all I got.

Mr. Baker.

I will say amen to that. But I also am going to speak on that a little bit further and say that the existence of this Rosenwald Fund and what we did tonight was essentially like a budget exercise. And I think everybody up here is aware that like the most painful things we do all year are budget exercises. And now we're talking about a budget exercise for a single, a neighborhood and a neighborhood with a history of being underfunded by the city. And all of, you know, I mean, that's putting it very lightly. But it makes these conversations extremely difficult and hard and tense. And it creates a division amongst the folks up here that I just, I don't enjoy it. because I'm sorry, we have to think about, and I live on McMinn, you know, Mickey Park. My neighbors are looking at me. And when we're having these discussions about the Rosenwald Fund, you know, what goes unsaid is that there are two black council members up here and there are three white council members up here. And no one, I don't like thinking about that. I hate it. I hate it. I don't want to do that anymore. Because, as Councilwoman Holder said, we are all citizens of Brevard. And that is why I... Whatever happens with the Rosenwald Fund, and we're going to make those decisions later, we need to close this... chapter out, we need to do what's right. And I'm not sure what that is right now, but we'll figure it out. And then we need to get back to doing the business of the city as the whole city. And I believe we can do that. I hope we can do that. And I'm gonna move on to another tense topic, which is the cameras. And we didn't get a chance to talk about them earlier, so I'm gonna take just a second now to talk about it. And I do wanna thank the Chief. Councilman Lytle and I serve on the Public Safety Committee, so we were, you know, We heard about this a lot, multiple meetings there. And we hadn't served together very long, so you're always kind of feeling people out when you're on a committee with them. And it was great because I just like,

pushed my seat back and just let Dean go crazy with his questions.

And he asked so many good questions, and we learned a lot through that process. But here we are at the end. I think, again, the chief did such a great job about informing us about the issue. But beyond that, she had policies written and ready to go that I am comfortable saying would keep the citizens of Brevard safe and that our officers would handle that in a good way. But as I learned more about this, I mean, these are not just cameras connected to a server or a server that's located within the police department. You think of them hooked up, they're feeding into a tape machine somewhere like it's 1995. All this data is housed somewhere else, Atlanta, who knows where. And we sign a contract that says, well, we own that data. And I'm not naive. I know that the modern world, you own movies or you own music that you never actually hold in your hands. But when we're talking about sensitive information from the public, it's hard to trust a third-party, multibillion-dollar security company that this sensitive data is gonna be safe. And that is why I am not a fan of these and moving forward with this right now. And I also think, and I didn't get a chance to say this at the committee level, and I probably should have, but I do think that there's a larger theme here, which is the vision that we have for the police department. And we've been through a lot with the department over the last few years. We had a complete turnover in the leadership over there. But throughout that, we were pretty clear we wanted a community-based police department that were out and about, that they were visible. And I know that this technology does not mean that they would be sitting behind a screen doing all their police work there. But it does make you think about what putting cameras up symbolizes in terms of where our department is going. And so I'm glad we didn't make that decision tonight. I'm also glad that the public was able to weigh in. And I'm really proud of the transparent process that we undertook. And I hope we can continue doing that in the future. One question for Wilson. Have we heard a response from the county about with our letter on the courthouse?

No, sir.

I discussed it today with their vice chair.

Okay. Just wanted to say that publicly. Still waiting on a response on that. And that is all I have.

Mr. Daniel?

I'd like to thank Mr. Baker for his words about the Rosenwald because I felt like those comments were directed at me personally, as I am the one who used the term Rosenwald community, but this is an account that was set up that has the name Rosenwald on it, so it is just the Rosenwald community's money, and we've heard that said by members of the Rosenwald community that it's our money. Not that it's the city's money, it's their money. But I won't pursue that any further. I do wanna kinda bring back up, I'd kinda like to see us get refocused on the Acousta Trail some. I feel like we've, as a council, we don't talk about it much and we're not really, I still don't feel like we're ready for what's coming our way. I read an article that David Bradley wrote about the Acoustic Trail and he mentions a fellow by the name of Steve Burt of the Institute of Transportation Research and Education at North Carolina State who I believe is has written a study on how this trail will affect the city of Brevard in particular. And I would ask that our staff follow up on that. If that actually exists, I'd be interested to see the results of that. But I would like to encourage us and remind us that there's a tidal wave coming our way. It's called the Acosta Trail. It's gonna be a huge economic driver and we need to be ready, and I'm not sure that we are right now, so that's all I have to say. Mr. Lytle?

Yeah, I see tonight as a positive. We're elected to challenge each other. We're not elected for groupthink. And when we challenge each other, it allows us to get to decisions that are best, right? So I see tonight as a complete positive and there's no one, right after this meeting is over, if we can go quick enough, I will have coffee with everyone. Also, I grew up in Rosenwald. I rode my bike every weekend. Mo, we rode together all the time to Franklin Park. We played football by the library. This whole town is all of ours, and I see myself as a citizen of Brevard. And my thoughts about tonight would have been the same. It doesn't matter where I lived in the city. My thoughts were based on logic. my own logic and what I thought was best, not because I live in Rosenwald. I've prepared a statement tonight because I think it's worth it given what's transpired the last few days and what tonight. So I did that so that the chief understands how important I think this is, and I just want to say a few words about the license plate discussion and the public session we held. First, I want to thank everyone who came to that and participated. Regardless of where everyone stood on the technology itself, I learned something important at that meeting. What I heard was a deep level of concern about privacy and especially about how much trust people currently have in the federal government and in large corporations when it comes to the personal information. It occurred to me that most citizens don't have many meaningful ways to push back on those larger institutions. They can't walk into a boardroom of a major tech company and most people have very little direct influence over federal policy. But they can come here. They can stand in front of their city council and tell us what concerns them. In some ways, the discussion was about more than just three cameras in Brevard. This was one place where people felt they could make their voices heard about much larger concern over privacy and surveillance. I think it's important that we listened. I also want to recognize Chief Wenzel. She and her department put a tremendous amount of work into researching this technology, developing safeguards, answering our questions, and engaging with the community. Her decision to withdraw the request should not be viewed as a failure of proposal. I view it as a demonstration of leadership. She has only been chief for a relatively short time, but I've been very impressed with what I've seen. She's shown that public trust matters to her and that she's willing to listen even when that means considering something she believes could help her department. There's a difference between having authority and having trust of the community you serve. The best public safety leaders understand you need both. I believe the Chief demonstrated that here and I appreciate her leadership. This also doesn't mean that Brevard can never discuss emerging public safety technology again. It means that when we do, the community deserves to be a part of that conversation, and public trust has to be a part of the decision.

Thank you. Mr. Attorney.

I have nothing to add, just a reminder that we have a little bit of business to do after.

We have a closed session, yes. Madam Clerk. Nothing for me. Thank you. Mr. Manager.

Following up on Councilmember Daniels' remarks, a reminder to the board that at our next ETAB meeting at the end of this month, there will be a presentation on the estimated cost of the trail. And we were holding off on doing a lot of additional work regarding the trail until we found out whether or not we were going to be able to afford it. And I can report that the estimated cost is within the realm of possibility. It's not $50 million. It's not something gaudy that we could never afford. It's in the neighborhood of what we expected. There's still some work to do to close a small funding gap. But I do think that the trail will move forward. We will be able to build it. And so we're going to pick up some of those issues that have been tabled for a little while, Gary, and redouble our efforts to make sure we're prepared for the arrival of the trail here.

all right well i too want to thank chief wenzel and i want to thank the public because one of our priorities as your elected leaders and our staff is to hear what people have to say and we go out of our way to give opportunity to the public to come to us in different forums and express your opinion. And we do listen. That is so important. And yes, it is we the people. And that was demonstrated, I think, very clearly with the public input session that we had such wonderful turnout at. as well as people coming here tonight prepared again to speak. But your elected leaders listened to you, we heard your concerns, and we reacted and took action on those. And that's what it's all really about. One of the other things we're gonna start doing, because we really do believe in transparency and we really believe in communication, and that is we're gonna start holding quarterly town hall meetings around the city in different portions of the city. We held one in Rosenwald a couple months ago. We're gonna be holding our next one in the Pisgah Forest section of Brevard, and it's gonna be Of course, open to everybody, but it's going to focus on things that are happening in that section of town. And I just want to mention to people that that is going to be September 29th, so mark your calendars from 6 to 8, and we're going to hold it in the recreation center there. And staff will be there to give updates on things like the Acosta Trail, like what's happening at the rec center at the parking lot, what's happening with the proposed housing that looks like it might be moving forward on Morris Road. Oh, and we're gonna also have NCDOT come to talk about what's happening with the big NCDOT projects, including the Wilson Road project. So all of this is gonna be at our next completely open, transparent town hall meeting, and so I encourage people to take advantage of the fact that we really are trying to put information out and then give you a chance to give us feedback afterwards. And so, of course, there will be time for feedback there. So that is coming up. Also, on September 24th is my next Meet the Mayor meeting. I hold one every month. I've now held over 50 of them, and I encourage people. This is just another very good way, informal setting, to come and express any of your concerns or your suggestions. And it's 1130 to 1 at the Mary C. Jenkins Center on September 24th. So your city government really is here to represent you and to listen to you. And we do want to hear from you. So thank you. And with that, I need a motion to go into closed session for economic development. So moved. Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

We are in closed session. Please stop.