Plan & Zoning Commission - Special Meeting

We're all set.

All right. Thank you. Um, good evening. Uh, today is January 29th. Um, I would like to call this meeting to order. I'd like to make a motion uh to open the continued January 22nd uh regular meeting. So moved. Thank you. Second. Moved and seconded. Any discussion about this? Um all those in favor? I I I uh any opposed? Any abstension? Want to decide? I call. Uh so we will do we'll start with a roll call. Um,

Byron Lester absent. Renee James present. Dwight Bolton absent. Leon Peters absent. Steven Mallette here. Jennifer Marshall Neely here. Kevin Goff here. Ola absent. Roger O'Brien here. Ununice Medwinter here. Do you have a quorum? Great. Thank you. Who would you like to appoint for an alternate? Madam Chair, yeah, I believe we need two alternates tonight. Yes.

So, I would uh move that we appoint uh Ununis Med winner and u uh Roger O'Brien as our uh city commissioner tonight. Okay, there's a motion. Second. Seconded by Commissioner Mlette. All right. All of those all those in favor?

I hear abstensions. Any opposed? All right, the motion passes that we'll have a Commissioner um Commissioner O'Brien and Commissioner Medwiner um as voting members tonight. Um first on our I would like to do the meeting um a little bit out of order from our agenda. Uh we have some new business that um had been on the line and hadn't gotten addressed uh at our meeting last week. Um do we And that is uh new business 5A, sidewalk plan review and approval for 579 Northwood Drive and 9 West Dudley Town Road. Is there someone present to speak to that?

Hold on, Madam Chair. Can we just pause for one minute? Um, we just got a notice that the online Zoom link isn't working, so we're just double checking. Can you please hold? All right. Just for the record, I did a quick run right before this meeting and it was working. Thank you. Everything is running. Okay. Okay. All right. So, this is just confirmation that we have received a notice uh that the meet Zoom meeting online was not working, but we just confirmed that it was okay. That it is working. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for um checking that.

Um is there someone that is present either in person or online? Are we going to do the change agenda order? Oh, okay. Sorry. You have to vote on anonymous. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good evening. Thanks for joining us and apologies for last week. Yeah, that quite all right. It's part of the part of the job. Um, for the record, my name is John Casey. I'm a partner with the law firm of Robinson and Cole. We represent the applicant Burns Construction. Uh, with me is Tim HooL from BL Companies. And uh members of this commission may recall back at the end of the summer, we were here for a special use permit to um have these properties become a uh contractor's yard. that approval was granted uh with uh well different stipulations, but the one we're here on today was you wanted us to go back and speak with staff and town engineer and to uh determine uh what where sidewalks should be placed, what would be the best place uh for sidewalks. We had asked for a waiver. You asked for us to work with the staff. So over the course of the fall and early uh well over the course of the fall, we worked with the town engineer and the town staff and we came up with a plan that everyone was happy with. And with that, I'll turn it over to our engineer Tim H, who can show that to you. I think he can share his screen.

Yes, I'm bringing that up now. house while I bring that up. Uh again, my name is Tim HooL, civil engineer with BL Companies, uh the engineer of record for this project. Um so up on the screen now, I have the the overall site plan. This is the latest plan issuance that we released after speaking uh with planning staff as well as the town engineer. Um the overall development still the exact same from the approval. The building's still in the middle, parking on the the plan east side of the building, the main contractor yard to the west side. Um, the main change that we made was after discussion with planning staff and the town engineer, um, we had a negotiation or discussions back and forth on which portions of the frontage between West Dudley Town Road and Northwood Drive would be most beneficial to install a sidewalk within the right of way. Uh pretty early on the discussion focused on two main items. Which frontage would be most beneficial for a sidewalk for public access and public safety? Um as well as which portion which uh which frontage has adequate width in the right of way to suit uh a safe installation of a sidewalk with the the paved roadway width. provide a 4 foot grass snow shelf off the side of the road and then the sidewalk all within the right of way. Um the town engineer quickly recognized that Northwood Drive has less foot traffic, uh less vehicle traffic, so there's less likelihood of pedestrian versus vehicle conflict. Um as well as a much narrower rideway. It's in fact it's 10 foot n 10

ft narrower which poses some real constraints on being able to fit a sidewalk within that right ofway. Uh town engineer mentioned his strong preference was that we do a sidewalk on West Dudley Town Road only. Um, again, that's an area where there's potential, higher potential for some vehicle versus pedestrian conflicts and the preference to get those pedestrians out of the way. Um, additionally, that section of the road has better rightway width. Uh, we were able to fit a snow shelf off the edge of the paving and then the sidewalk. We were actually able to expand it. wider than 4 feet to provide a little bit more space. Um, so that is what the town engineer requested. He actually did request a little bit extra from us. Um, if I zoom in to this side of the plan here, you'll see we carried um the sidewalk right from the intersection with Northwood Drive Plan North. Uh normally we would provide the sidewalk only in front of our our frontage which stops at uh at this location here. Um but the the town engineer requested that since this is town-owned property just to the plan north of us. It's the the fire station. Uh he requested if the applicant will be willing to extend the sidewalk another approximately 30 ft to the edge of the driveway of the fire station. that provides a nice clean line of demarcation so that if and when the town does come back to add sidewalks here, they can do it from the driveway on and don't have to do a small little section on the other side. Uh Burns Construction was uh willing to do that. So they are adding in that extra 30 ft. Um so that's the um the discussion that

we had with town staff. Uh they did prefer West Dudleytown Road. Um, the last piece I did want to mention was that another piece that we analyzed was impact to some of the existing tree stand that's here. Uh, this West Dudley Town Road side has far less impact to existing trees. Uh, there's one or two, I believe, that we impact with the sidewalk installation. Uh, on the Northwood Drive side, there would have been quite a few more existing trees that would need to be cleared to install a sidewalk. So collectively between the right ofway width, the pedestrian versus vehicle impacts, the um presence of snow shelf, the significant tree impact, and then the the benefit to uh to adding that stretch of sidewalk in front of the fire station property. That was the uh the consensus that town staff and the applicant and and BL we came to on this property. Thank you, Tim. Uh, so, Madam Chair, that's really our presentation. We feel we um we um, you know, went out and and did what this commission wanted uh, which is confer with staff and determined the best place, you know, if any, um, for a sidewalk. And we understand that West Dudleytown is the better location here. I think the town engineer mentioned, there's a project up the street somewhere. Uh, and a sidewalk is going to go on that project. Um, and as members of this commission said, it's sort of like a jigsaw puzzle. You just start filling in the pieces when you can. So, we're filling in this piece. Happy to do so. As Tim pointed out, our client's happy to to build that extra 30 feet to to

um connect it to the driveway. So we um I think our orders were to to to go make this agreement, you know, figure out come back with a plan and then the um this commission could uh approve that and we would be able to move on to final approvals uh with the staff. All right, thank you very much for that. Um is there any comment from the planning department?

Good evening, commissioners. No, we did uh speak with the engineer um and as um Mr. Tim uh Hull did mention um he suggested that uh mainly um that it would be most beneficial to have a sidewalk on the West Dudley um because the town is also working on implementing uh some sidewalks west of West Dudley and it would uh be in the future connected um to this area. So, um, regarding Northwood, um, he said at this time there are, um, you know, no plans for for the town to, you know, connect those sidewalks, but it's completely up to the commission on, um, how they want to rule.

Thank you. Um, we'll start with both questions, comments from uh, the commission. We'll start with Commissioner Millet. We're doing just questions or Oh, both. Both both. any any comments or feedback you have?

I I don't think I have any questions. I you know, remember kind of where we left this. I I think the comment is I think it's a good um plan. I think I would have favored u you know the waiver would have been okay, but it's helpful to know there were plans in place. Um so connecting the the Dudley side does make sense. Um, I would love to see just as a comment the town fill in some of their own places like the high school um on Crest View. I I would love to see us do that as an example before we push a lot of this. Um, but I think the plan was great. I thank the developers for working with staff. Um, so I I think this will be a net benefit. Thank you, Commissioner O'Brien.

Yes, I um I want to thank the staff for their work on it. Um the original request that came to us was a sidewalk waiver on both both street frontages. Um so [clears throat] I think it's great that we're getting a sidewalk on West Dudley and we're getting I did note when I was up there that the fire department is right next door. So, I think that's great that we're getting an extra 30 ft. Um, the commission has had discussions about not waving sidewalks, but instead deferring construction. Um, so I would recommend that uh we approve this um this plan, but that we do not uh grant the waiver for the sidewalk on Northwoods, but we approve a deferral of the construction of a sidewalk on Northwoods. and we reserve the right to require a sidewalk at a future date. [snorts]

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner O'Brien. Um, Commissioner Goff,

um, yeah, I I echo what my colleague said. Um, I certainly agree with Commissioner Mlette. I think the town we the town should do something about some of its own uh, missing sidewalks. I would point out that between the Gesler's Plaza and the First Congregational Church, uh that was um talked about when I moved to town 33 years ago, so there's no sidewalk there. Uh but I do want to thank um the uh the applicant and uh the engineer, Mr. HooL, and Mr. Casey. I think this is a good plan. I really appreciate the um client being willing to uh continue the sidewalk to the fire uh fire department and do that. I think that's um that's very um admirable working with the community. Um so u I'm I'm completely in favor of this plan and I you know I I think we can defer indefinitely on Northwood and it may never happen. So thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall Ny.

Thank you. I I agree and concur with my fellow commissioners. U especially with um Commissioner Mlette there there's a lot more going on or in Bloomfield where we could see the town filling in sidewalks especially for walkers and joggers and that sort of thing. I also concur 100% with Commissioner O'Brien with the deferment as opposed to waiver. I I think that that would be the best way to handle that. But either way, I I I I agree with uh extending and I like the way you've looked at the sidewalks and added an extension to the sidewalks. So, you know, that's good news and I would support that. as long as we uh we look at deferment as opposed to waiver. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Medwiner. I'm in full full agreement with the sidewalk. Um in agreement with what my colleagues have said. No other comments or questions.

Thank you. Um and my comments are just express gratitude. Um, and thanks to the team and uh your client and the planning department as well, the town engineer for putting together a plan. Um, you know, I think it's a great start. Um, I think I could imagine someone from the school doing some good laps on that sidewalk. Um, so thank you for putting that together. And um my I guess I have a question and maybe um you know, Commissioner O'Brien mentioned a deferring uh of the right and to defer and not a waiver and want the right to reserve to reserve the right to build a sidewalk at a later time. What might that actually look like? At what point might you come to the applicant and and say,

"Well, in in in the recommendation from the town engineer, he said the sidewalk wasn't appropriate at this time." Um, so I'm my concern is when we wave this sidewalk, then [clears throat] you know, we've done away with a sidewalk in the future. But if we have an application that's right next door in in 3 years and it's approp appropriate to have a longer piece of sidewalk, then at that time we could revisit the issue. Um, so that was that was my thought. Um the um the one thing that I just wanted to say with respect to the applicant saying, "Well, the rightway is not there." Well, we're talking about property where if you look at your site plan, you're not building on that place. So that on I don't really think it's a valid argument to say the the public right away is not wide enough for a sidewalk because you're putting in an application and you could make a right away on Northwood if you wanted. However, I just say that for for future uh reference, but I'm not I'm not concerned about it at this point in time. and I could even live with waving the waving the sidewalk except that we all decided that we were going to institute a new policy of deferring rather than waving. So, um um but I'm I'm very pleased that um by requiring the extra look on this, we've gotten a sidewalk on on Wes Dougley and we've gotten a sidewalk partially in front of the fire uh station. So, um yeah, I I if you're looking for a motion, I can make a motion and then you can do what

you want with it. Um, yeah. I mean, before you make the motion, I guess for the planning department, I I I'm curious process-wise how it would look to like defer and then maybe, you know, 20 years down the line, we say we would we Yeah, there's another property that wants to build a sidewalk and we want to have it continue all the way to West Dudley. So, we go to not this team, we go to the applicant, which is what burns the construction or um [clears throat] the to say, you know, you have to now build a sidewalk. What is that? What's the proc what would be the process for that?

Well, exactly that once we get an application uh let's say next door and it's approved um then at the time we make the request that you know as that the deferral at this time the commission would like the site built. Is that what you're asking? Yeah. Yeah. Appropriate time. So So would it oblige them to the Well, there'd be conversations that would happen before. I wouldn't say like

either that or if if there is a sidewalk and you know a plan that's you know a complete I'm not sure if the engineering department has any plans on on uh you know the construction of sidewalks on Northwood but I I think it would be either or whether or not there's a new development coming in where it makes sense for now you have more of a continuous sidewalk and it it will work and you know versus I guess my um talking about it depends on Madame Chairman. Hi John here with us. [clears throat]

Hello John Coleman's on the line.

Hello everybody. Um I would note that you know 10 15 20 years from now the present applicant may not be the property owner. Uh, so you know, I it would seem to me when we do a deferral, and I think we'd have to get some guidance from the town attorney as to um you know, how it's noted on the property files or in our files that there's a deferment that exists on this property. Uh so when something does come up, uh that can get flagged. We have not done one before and um and I understand where the commission wants to go with this, but I I am a little hesitant to to recommend this to you uh without having had some uh discussions with the town attorney.

Were you going to add something, Linda? I was going to add John when we defer parking um normally sometimes it goes with with the approval and it it gets filed into special permit um and land records. That's uh basically so it goes pretty much with the approval um versus you know being uh uh with with the applicant. It's actually it runs with the property. It runs with the land. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. You ready for a motion? I am before. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, Commissioner Ga.

Uh, I think before we have a motion, can we hear from the applicant what their from their discussion from our this discussion what their thoughts are on this? Yeah, thank you. Um, any feedback? Uh, Mr. Casey or

uh, thank you again for the record, John Casey. Um, I thought our discussion with the the town staff and engineer in particular uh was pretty definitive about the the the issues surrounding trying to put a a sidewalk on uh Northwood Drive. There there really is a very narrow uh rightaway area that's not paved. the the the space between the existing curb and the property line where a a sidewalk would go, which makes it I won't say infeasible, but very difficult to put in there. And as Tim mentioned, uh when he mentioned trees, we were looking at your regulation for like um significant trees that would have to be cut down uh in order to put in a um a sidewalk there. So we we felt we sort of really pulled the string is you know far on the the sidewalk issue on Northwood Drive. I guess uh to the point um as to a comment by Mr. Coleman, no one really likes to be the the test case on something. So to be the first deferral on a sidewalk um when it's really no one really wants a sidewalk here, you know, no um currently uh staff's not pushing for it. You know, the staff was supportive of a waiver for an, you know, complete waiver when we were here in the late summer. Um, but we understand, as I said, the the purpose and need for the the sidewalk on West Dudleytown. And I guess in general, my thought is, you know, finality is a good thing. Um, obviously, if this

anyone the owner of this property comes back in the future and wants to do more improvements and at that point there's other sidewalks in the area, that would be an appropriate time. But I think, you know, there's always a risk kind of hanging a requirement like this kind of over, you know, over the head of a property owner. It have to be passed on. The new property owner may not want to take that on. It would it could, you know, it could represent uh sort of a a stumbling block in the future. So, um I guess I would ask that we that you give us an approval um with full waiver on on Northwood Drive and the installation of sidewalks as proposed on West Dudleytown.

Commissioner O'Brien.

Yeah. Um, you know, I I've been involved in approving shopping centers where we defer the requirement to build all the parking um for until such time as is demonstrated that is needed. It goes on the land records. It's not an issue. Um that's probably the biggest one is people don't want to build 200 parking spaces of 150 do at the present time. So this is is extending that same concept. Um, and as far as being a test case, I'm not sure an applicant is going to sue us over the over a requirement that may or may not happen uh 20 years down the road. But what it does from the town standpoint is it reserves the the space for a future sidewalk. Uh, which I think is important so that [clears throat] we don't get something built in there. um and that that we'll we reserve space for a future sidewalk. So, um and you know, as far as uh so I I don't I don't I don't really see it as an as an issue that an applicant is going to say, "Oh, whoa, before I do anything else, I'm going to sue them over requiring me to put a sidewalk in." Which the commission has the perfect right to do regardless. So, I mean, what we're saying is we're not we could vote tonight to say put a sidewalk on Northwood Drive. And by the way, I have pictures here of that dense woods that we've heard about, and it's not a dense woods. Uh it's flat. Uh it it wouldn't be difficult to to build a sidewalk there. So, um you know, I'm I

um I just think the commission has saidwalks are important. uh we want to move away from an autodependent society and um we uh and this is one way to do it as we move along just like we could wave the requirement to build all parking spaces that are required but we we're still putting on the approval that you need to have them you need to reserve the space for them. So, we're saying reserve the space for on the site plan for a sidewalk. Um, and you know, it's that is the authority of the planning and zoning commission.

Yeah. So um I guess from maybe a simple question for my own clarity is like the motion might be to we reserve the right like they say you're saying they save the space for it and at some point we may say we want to use that space to build a we want to build there's a sidewalk

that space for for the owner to build a sidewalk, right? Um, but it I mean I guess also it's like I I'm wondering if it's like they come in and we have a conversation and maybe they come in and say we did all these studies last time. There's not cuz you know we may not be here or what what have you. But um there's like a continued conversation as opposed to like an obligation at some point the town says we want a sidewalk there. you have to do this or is it like a continued like a um

well the the reality is that there will be a future conversation. The important thing is we're reserving the right the space for a future sidewalk who who actually pays for it. I mean that's whether these g gentlemen own it or somebody else owns it. I mean the fact of the matter is it was accelerated depreciation and so forth. Nobody owns real estate for that long. So, it'll be a different owner, but if whoever wants to do something there, it runs with the land. Your special permit conditions go on the land record. It runs with the land. So, whoever buys it knows that there's the potential that they may have to put a sidewalk there at some point.

Okay. Commissioner Redwinter. So the deferment doesn't necessarily affect this applicant unless they come in the future with a new application for something else and then you can raise the issue again. They'd prefer for it to be done with and that's no longer issue. So if they come in with a new application they can say well and you mentioned sidewalk they say well that was waved on the land records it's waved. However, with a deferment as proposed by um Commissioner O'Brien, whether them or another person, it runs with the land like you said. So, that requirement is a requirement of that property. So, if someone comes in with an application for whatever, at that point, the commission can require the sidewalk. The concern I have though is that if the engineers, our own engineers have said that it's not feasible, one of the things we should consider um with regards to sidewalk, while we'd love sidewalk everywhere, sidewalks are not always feasible in terms of you have properties now that the sidewalk is but in the it's right along the road. And when we have snow removal, those sidewalks can't even be cleared. So they're like obsolete because during the winter time it just creates more hazard than it actually is helpful. So I think we should consider the pros and the cons and lean lean more on our engineers um in terms of what they think is worth it whether it's for these current um owners or for future owners. Understood. But I mean

this is a p this is a picture of where the sidewalk could go. You can build a sidewalk there. the sidewalk is not going to be like if they're going to put a sidewalk now on your property for example. It's not technically it's that 10-ft space that the town technically is reserved for the town. That's where the sidewalk goes not into your actual um property. So I don't know um in terms of what is there and how many trees needs to be disturbed um whether you choose a waiver, you choose a a deferment. they would prefer deferment so that if they have to come back in it's not something they have to discuss again

they would prefer a waiver um so that if they ever have to do any further future development they don't have to be re discussing this again I suggest that we lean on our engineers and their recommendations in terms of what they suggest but I mean either way so I just want to say that this commission hasn't received a copy of the town engineers letter I don't what he said. So, I mean, I don't think he said it was physically impossible. I'm just told that he he'd prefer that it not be built because there isn't enough usage there.

Well, the thing is, we have to look at the future of the town. And yes, there may not be enough usage there now. I would agree with that. But that doesn't mean that we should wave sidewalks on that street. And what happens if you know we get into adaptive reuse and all those manufacturing buildings become residential at some point? Commissioner,

thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I I this is a fascinating discussion um or at least fascinating to the people on the commission. Um maybe less so to the applicants. Um the the thing the question I have and I guess clarifying it a little in listening to the discussion I think the waiver is actually the waiver of the requirement that the applicant build the sidewalk. I don't think by waving the sidewalk requirement we are saying that we can't do not have the right to put a sidewalk in our rideway. Now, there's the issue that Commissioner O'Brien has raised of and has been raised. Is the right of way enough to put a sidewalk? Would you have to encroach essentially on the uh applicant's property to put a proper sidewalk? And we also how many trees do you have to cut down? That kind of thing. But um I guess I would like some clarification from staff that the waiver is the requirement that the applicant as part of the project build the sidewalk. So I'm not sure we're giving up anything if we wave the requirement that this applicant at this time does not have to build it as part of this project because I can certainly understand. Yeah, we may come back in 5 years, 10 years, something else is going on. We'd like to put a sidewalk on there, but frankly, I'm not sure that's the applicant's responsibility at this point to pay for.

Yeah. So, um L, do you have any um comment about that? is is is a waiver for this application at this time forever in the future. waving the

my interpretation would be that it's it's for this particular application and does not forego the potential uh for the for the town to um require a um a sidewalk at a future date for either another development a budding or the devel or another activity on this particular property because there are a number of places throughout town where we have waved the sidewalk requirement understanding that at some point there was going to be a need for a sidewalk at that location. Uh so I think it's just my opinion is it would just relate to this this application and would not um would not restrict our ability going forward. So, might um I mean I know a motion hasn't been made yet, but might a motion clarify that it's a waiver for this application. Um I guess do you have thoughts?

I think anything that I think anything that would clarify what the commission is deciding is is um helpful. Well, it's been my experience that town attorneys have and and every town attorney is, you know, interprets things differently. Not everyone, but various town attorneys interpret things differently. But I've sat at a commission meeting and I've had a town attorney say, "Well, the sidewalks were waved on this property in 1952, therefore the commission can't require a sidewalk." Um and um the issue with this particular property, if we don't require the applicant to show a right away for a sidewalk on this thing, then we're going to run up against if we want in in the future saying, "Well, it doesn't make sense or we don't have the space." Because they've used the space that there would be for a sidewalk for something. they they put a structure there or something and now you're going to say well it's too narrow. So what I was suggesting and you know I I can withdraw and say fine wave it if you want but I just think that in the future we should always show the sidewalk the rightway for the sidewalk and allow for it. And so we can all we can request the app show the rightway a rightaway for a sidewalk and that may be on their property currently but it's a future rightway for a sidewalk and then we've got a rightaway for a sidewalk but we're not telling them to build it. So, that's basically what I'm trying to do here is to say, let's reserve a rightaway for a sidewalk on Northwood. If that means

taking some of their property and showing it as future sidewalk at on the map, that's what we're doing. Potential future sidewalk set aside. That's all we're saying.

Don't have to build it. Commissioner O'Brien, don't do what do you think that don't would you not think that the yard requirements would protect us um for having sufficient space to install a sidewalk in the future? this front yard setback, the sideyard, if it's a corner lot setback. Um, you know, they're fairly sufficient, uh, it seems to me, to allow for a sidewalk to go in if it has to go on on this particular property. Um,

you know, at this point in time, at this point in time, what I would say is if this has been negotiated and we're getting a sidewalk on West Dudley and we're getting a sidewalk in front of the firehouse and we've started the discussion about how we're going to defer future constructions, I'd be okay with that and not hold this applicant up be if there are concerns about it. But basically, um, I mean, I would be willing to make the motion that says we reserve a right that the applicant show space for f for a potential future sidewalk on the site plan. Period. And if the commission doesn't want to go along with that, then we'll vote for [clears throat] the plan as submitted. What may may I add just for the provisions of zoning regulation 610F which is the sidewalks and multipath requirement. Um it there are three conditions um that have to exist or that the commission has to find in order to wave the sidewalk requirement. And if any of those apply then the commission may wave it or modify it. You don't have to completely wave it, but you can modify it is what the regulation states. Um the following a written request of uh for a waiver, which the applicant did. Uh um the commission may wave or modify the sidewalk path requirement when one or more of the following conditions exist. The provision of a sidewalk path would signific uh would cause significant environmental harm to adjacent wetlands or wildlife habitat. B the provisions of a sidewalk or path poses significant engineering challenges as presented by a Connecticut licensed engineer. Or C in

the judgment of the commission a sidewalk path would serve no public benefit at the site location. So those are um uh the three following conditions um when requesting when the applicant is requesting a waiver that the commission would then consider. Madam Chair, such a waiver.

So can I just ask for for clarification? U uh the waiver is to build the sidewalk though because I think I think the debate here is becoming is there a path to put a future sidewalk in? And I don't think that's really an issue whether it's shown on the on the map or I mean the town has a right of way here. There are setback requirements. They can't if they want to build something else that's going to impinge on that they're going to have to come back to this commission. But it seems like what we're trying I think the waiver is really for them to build it. And I don't think we any of us have any objection to that at this point. Uh, I'm I'm happy depending on what I'm happy to go along with Commissioner O'Brien in terms of if they want to show it on the map that this would be the future path of a sidewalk along Northwood Northwood Boulevard. I that's fine. Or Northwood Drive, whatever the name road is. Um, is can we ask the applicant what their thoughts are on this?

Mr. Casey, do you have thoughts on showing it on a map? Um, I think we could I actually I'd probably defer to to Mr. HooL if you could put it there. Um, because one of the issues is that the the rightway area because right the the sidewalk typically goes on the town's rightway in front of an applicant's property. And here the unpaved part of the rightaway is is very narrow between the street uh and the property line. And while the area in front of the existing building is kind of open uh to the uh on either other on either side, there are some significant trees in there that are intended to to remain uh and have it's been approved that we keep the trees there as part of this site plan. So, um, I'm probably saying too much, but to answer your question, I'll turn it over to Tim. I think we could draw lines that show a sidewalk. I don't know that they would comply with the five feet wide in that area. Yes. Uh, so yeah, I can jump in. Um, and I'll share my screen again so we can kind of zoom into this area on Northwood Drive. Um, so just zooming in to one specific section here. Um, all have similar layout, but we've got the existing curb line is right here highlighted in yellow. Um, and then the the property line is here in red. Uh good engineering practice for adding sidewalks to a public road, public right ofway is that you do install the sidewalk a minimum of 4 feet off the edge of the roadway. That provides that snow shelf in winter conditions and also

moves any pedestrian or multimodal traffic away from the edge of the roadway to provide some separation distance. here because the rightofway width is limited to 50 ft. There's not adequate space within the public right ofway to install that 4ft snow shelf. Then the 5 foot wide sidewalk. Um that was uh expressly mentioned by the town engineer uh in our meeting with town staff with uh with Linda and John. Um that's one of the main considerations we had for this area. Um, we absolutely could draw lines to show where the sidewalk may go, but I fear in doing so it would potentially be misleading to show the how the sidewalk may go, but mask a potential concern of a need to widen the right of way or otherwise obtain an easement for the town or others to put the sidewalk for public benefit partially on or entirely within privately owned. land.

Um, thank you. Um, my question I guess for the planning department I and I totally uh find our applicant credible. I I do think it would have been nice to see something from the town engineer, some sort of summary on that conversation because I mean I do believe, you know, I don't think the applicant would mislead us, but knowing from the engineer um I think commissioner Meder does make a good point that you um we should put our trust in um a town engineer in their opinion. Uh I think would hold a lot of weight on the to to me at least as a my my myself as a commissioner. Um, so did you have any um thing from the engineer? Um, did the what were his sentiments? Do you know?

I'm sorry. The conversation with the town engineer is uh basically um he didn't see a need for a sidewalk on Northwood at this time. Uh that was basically it. I I don't think that, you know, he didn't state that it wasn't feasible at all. he just said, you know, there are really no plans. It really just loops around. It goes nowhere. Um, and so if the commission felt that it wasn't needed or uh that it's just that was the comment, not that it wasn't feasible, it just wasn't necessary that he felt

Can I wasn't really leading anywhere. Just one final question. Yeah. Um I I I think I agree with um Commissioner Goff in terms of we have kind of gone around the waiver. What we're waving is the requirement for this applicant to put in the sidewalk. The town still have the right away to put in a sidewalk at any point next year, the year after, any point. what we're what this applicant the waiver gives this applicant

is not enduring the expense of installing the sidewalk. That's what we're waving. They're they were saying we can say to an applicant, we'll approve this project, but as a condition of your project, you need to install a sidewalk, which technically is our job, the town's job. So, what we're technically waving is the expense for this applicant to go in and do it. It doesn't take away from the town putting one in next time or any or us asking another applicant to put one in. So, we're not waving the sidewalk. We're waving this applicant being the one responsible for the installation of the sidewalk. That's what we're waving.

I I do want to add yes. Um the town has the right to build sidewalks on their own right of way. That's correct. uh the provisions at 610. I just want to state it does not say that it has to be in the right of way. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't say that it has to be for obviously um you know for connectivity and um it's either sidewalk or multipath on a developed site or or a site for development. Um it doesn't say that it has to be in the right of way. I do just want to state that. Okay. Yeah. I was going to, if I could, I I was going to

to echo that there. There's no requirement that a sidewalk has to be in the current public rideway. As part of approving this site plan, we could require a sidewalk that infringes on their land and that that's the authority of this commission.

Yeah. [clears throat] Um I I appreciate the clarification. Um, I do think Commissioner Goff makes a good point in that we are, it sounds to me like we're all in agreement that this applicant, we're not trying to oblige this applicant in this moment to build a sidewalk on West Dudley. Um, but we're trying to figure out the language for our motion so that in the future another applicant or another owner couldn't say on January 29th, 2026 that it was waved that you don't have to build a sidewalk. So, if we could word it appropriately. I think I heard John Coleman say any description in our motion that we pass as specific as possible um would be helpful. Okay. Do you want me to try a motion?

I'd love it if you would. So I I move that we approve the proposed sidewalk plan as presented tonight for a sidewalk on West Dudley extending the number of feet. I think it was 30 ft they said in front of the firehouse that we wave the requirement for the construction of a sidewalk on Northwoods Drive, but that we require the applicant to show on the site plan a a um location of of a potential future sidewalk.

All right. Is there a second? I I second that. The motion has been seconded. Um do we have discussion now or is that after any discussion? Um Commissioner Mlette,

um did do we see the benefit of requiring the the drawing of the the potential sidewalk? Um, I mean, I I heard the applicant say, "Yeah, yes, it's possible, but there is, you know, the if we're not requiring it." Um, and we could require it for another development proposal in the future, we could require that if if we wanted the sidewalk, then we could require them to draw it in then.

Commission. Um, yeah, I understand Commissioner Mlette's point. I think I think the only point here is because of the narrowness along of the of the public rideway in North along Northwood Drive to put a reasonable sidewalk in there, it is probably going to encroach slightly on the existing property line. So, I think if we if we draw a path in there that potentially encroaches slightly, then it sort of says everyone we would put a sidewalk, we have the right to put a sidewalk on that property. But if we did it in the future because there was another development, it would be up to the town to pay for that sidewalk and it would not it would never be up to the current owner to do so. Um, so I think that's what we're trying to get at to make sure that we have enough room. So I'd be willing I I understand your point and that's I think that's the other thing as long as that is not an honorous requirement.

So the only obligation would be the cost of drawing it in. Yeah. Theoretically. Okay. Well, what that would also do is prohibit uh it would it would keep any construction on that site. correct back far enough so the sidewalk could be there but if the stipulation is that we're not requiring the understanding in terms of discussion we're not suggesting that 20 years from now the applicant has to build it if the town's going to build them there will be space to put it

and they've provided whatever number of feet that would be required in order to accomplish All right. Okay. Any other comments? All right. Seeing none. All those in favor? I. Any abstension? Any oppos opposed? All right. The motion passes. Thank you very much to the applicant. I appreciate all of your dedication to this. Next. Thank you members. Thank you.

Thank you. Next on our agenda. Okay. Next on our agenda um is new business 5B regional planning commission appointments. Um one representative and one alternate. Do I have a motion? Madam Chair, Madam Madam Chair, the U sorry Commissioner O'Brien, before you start, John Coleman, did you have anything? I'm sorry, Madam Chair. It was I had a conversation with the um with the uh with Chairman Byron and um he requested that this be be deferred until he can be present. Okay, that's fine. Um

Madame Chair, I had a conversation with Commissioner uh the chairman last night and he said he was fine if I made a motion to to appoint him. Yeah, I I I had a similar conversation with [laughter] with the chair and he he expressed um either way um I don't think there will be any surprises. So so much for me. Okay. [laughter] So with that, I'd like to make a motion that I would second that motion. Any discussion? All right. Seeing none, all those in favor? I

any opposed? Any abstension? All right. Motion passes. Um there is uh one alternate on this, but I think we can table that part. Can we table that part? Yeah, we we'll go ahead um and table that uh alternate position for the moment. Um and going now into uh the top of our agenda. Uh we'll do a No, we already approved minutes. Um we'll uh there's uh 4A 12 Philly Street Zone Map Change application. Um that applicant has submitted some documentation requesting an extension to our February 26th meeting. Chair, make a motion to open the public hearing items.

So I uh and then uh continue. Okay. Uh um do I have a motion to open 12 Philly Street zone map change application? I I so move second. Second. Uh all those in favor? I opposed abstension. All right. So um that's open but we are we will extend that to February 20 our February 26 meeting. Could I just say one thing on that? Absolutely. I was up there today and it may be the storm, but there is no sign posted on this thing that there's a open public hearing there's. So, the applicant needs to post a sign. Julie noted. I will notify the applicant.

All right. Thank you to the planning department. Um, okay. So, we will extend that meeting to our February 26th meeting. Um the next public hearing is 22 Toby Road special permit and site plan applica or revised site plan application. Madam chair we reopen the public hearing. All right. Is there a second? Second. All right. All those in favor I opposed abstension. Motion passes. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for having me. Just for the record, your name and

Yep. Uh Rich Hall, Borghazi Building and Engineering, 2155 East Main Street, Torington, here representing 22 Toby Street LLC, Pur Bertram Manufacturing, located at 22 Toby Road. Um I'd be happy to uh uh leave it at your guys discretion what you would like to do. We did a full presentation last time. If you'd like me to go back through anything, I'd be happy to do so. I just point out that um uh one of the commissioners, I'm sorry. Is it I don't know your name. Me? Yeah. O'Brien Commissioner Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Rogers had uh uh requested that we provide a uh cover page for the drawing package, which we have done. Um and uh I've uh provided three full-size copies to the planning department to join with the other the rest of the drawings. And of course uh post approval process of submitting a complete set of uh stamp sign drawings uh will have that uh as part of the package. Thank you for providing that. Um we'll just go through the commission for any last comments. Um, we'll start with Commissioner Millet.

Uh, nothing further to add. All right, Commissioner O'Brien. I think it's beautiful. [laughter] Thank you. Oh, only a planner would say that. All right, Commissioner Gau. Nothing further. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall Neely. I I thank you for coming back [laughter] and uh and complying and bringing us the cover page and all of the work that you've done. So, other than that, I have nothing else to say. Thank you, Commissioner Medwiner.

Uh while I wasn't in in attendance in person at the last um meeting, I did take the time to watch the entire meeting, so I have no further comments. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And I um have no further comments. just thank you for your dedication to this and um you know I wish the applicant a lot of continued success. So with that I will entertain a motion.

I I move that we accept the application for my sorry for the application for 22 Toby Road. Uh if you'd like the motion um with the staff comments. That's page four for consideration. Yeah. Oh, page four of the January 29 22nd 22nd uh document.

I the amended staff report was submitted today. Okay. Oh, sorry about that. Yep. And the amended staff report dated January 29th, 2026. Thank you. Page four is the motion for consideration. Uh there was just one thing on that staff's motion that it says that um the drawings can be signed by the chair or the CEO and I would like it to be amended to say could be signed by the chair or the secretary of the commission. Do that again.

Can we read it again? [laughter] I'm going to do this again. I move that we accept the uh applicants uh submission of the town of the special permit revised site plan dated January 22nd with staff uh with the staff uh expectations or requirements and January 29th 2026 the continuation of of this with page including page four. I don't remember what he said. Oh, and um that the plans could be condition number six

and the number six amend number six instead of saying zoning enforcement officer under the bullet point and six that it be the secretary of the town plan and zoning commission. Chairman or the secretary? Chairman of the board and secretary or secretary. Or secretary. Yes. Thank you so much. Oh my. Yes. Second. Thank you. Thank you. Any discussion? All right. Seeing none, all those in favor? I. All right. Any opposed? Any abstension? All right. Motion passes. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, commissioners, staff. [laughter] [gasps] You guys are great.

Thank you. Thank you. That's in the record, right? He said we were great. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. All right. Um, and the next public hearing is 31 Toby Road, Unit 2, special permit use application. Is there a motion to open this? Motion to open the uh public hearing. I second that motion. It's been motioned and seconded. Um, all those in favor?

I opposed. Any abstension? All right. Um so this applicant has requested an extension to our February 26th meeting as well. Um so we will continue um this public hearing until that date. And that is the end of our agenda. Uh, Madam Chair, before we close that, I would like to ask that the staff prepare for the next public hearing, a list of all zoning violations that are on 31 Toby along with a list of all of the um conditions of the site plan that are not currently being adhered to. [snorts] So, I did uh give a heads up to Linda on that and she felt that that was appropriate. So, if I don't know if we need a motion or or what, but I do think that if we're going to review the the site, we should know from the staff standpoint of how it's not in compliance.

Thank you. Uh Mr. Coleman, did you have comment about that? We'd be happy to oblige for that request. Thank you very much to the planning department. Um yes, I just wanted to add that um I spoken to the property owners and um we are uh setting up a meeting next week uh to meet with them to discuss zoning concerns and how to move forward. Okay. So our next regular schedule meeting is February 19th and February 26th. With that, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn.

Um, we're not Oh, sorry. Was the motion already to continue this to the next public hearing? We did. We We voted on that. Sorry. Yeah. All right. We opened We opened opened and continued. Okay. We continued. I continued it. Do we need to vote on the continued? Yes, you have to ex uh vote on ex granting the extension uh per statute. You have um yes the move to grant. Thank you. Is there a second?

Second. Um and can I um um I think the both are open. Can I amend that so that we extend both the hearing on 31 Toby Road unit 2 and uh 12 Philly Street? Uh because I don't think we voted on that either. Oh, as an extension. Just as an extension. So voting on both. We're both open. So, all right. So, open and continue, sorry, to February 26. Yes. So, the motion is to open and continue both 12 Philly Street. Well, yes. Um to continue them to February 26. And I second that motion. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor? I think that was unanimous. So, motion passes.

I would like to commend the commission for all their great work the last two nights. It's been fun. [laughter] Thank you everyone for coming back out. Uh do we Hold on. You can make the motion to adjurnn. [laughter] So move a second. Thank you very much. The motion the meeting is adjourned. Thank you John. Thanks John.