City Commission - Regular Meeting

Calling to order the June 8th, 2026 special meeting of the city, Birmingham City Commission at 151 Martin Street, Birmingham. We're in the city commission room. I'm going to dispense with the Pledge of Allegiance for now and ask for a roll call.

Mayor Ballard?

Here.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Here. Commissioner Haight?

absent mr. host here mr. Cole here mr. Kozlowski here we are now open to the public for matters not on the agenda if anyone in the room or online would like to make a comment if you're online use the raise your hand function I don't see anyone online or in the room so I would like to request please a motion for to go into closed session

I will make a motion, the motion for the resolution to meet in closed session pursuant to MCL 15.268, section 8, parens 1, parens H of the Open Meetings Act to discuss and answer questions regarding a written attorney-client privilege communication.

Second. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Cole?

Yes.

Commissioner Kozlowski?

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Yes. Mayor Balor?

Yes.

Commissioner Host?

Yes. Okay, so we will adjourn to close session now and return, we hope, before 7 p.m. Regular City Commission meeting of Monday, June 8th, 2026. It's 7.02 p.m. at 151 Martin Street, Birmingham, Michigan, Birmingham City Hall. Please join me in rising for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Mayor Bailey? Here. Mayor Pro Tem Long? Here. Commissioner Hay? Here. Commissioner Host?

Here.

Commissioner Kolb? Here. Commissioner Kulczewski?

Here. We move to item three, proclamations, congratulatory resolutions, awards, appointments, resignations and confirmations, administrations of votes, introduction of guests and announcements. We have two announcements. First, the city of Birmingham appreciates all the efforts of the DAR to acknowledge our heritage and included in tonight's packet is a copy of the full 250th proclamation prepared by the DIR to commemorate the nation's 250th anniversary. And the other announcement is to congratulate our city clerk, Alex Bingham, on being named to Oakland County's 2026 Oakland Together 40 Under 40. She was selected from among more than 260 applicants. She's being recognized for her leadership, innovation, and service in helping move Oakland County forward. Let's give her a round of applause. Very proud of her. Next item is appointments. We have appointment to the Design Review Board. There are two applicants. Rob Hoffman, are you here, Rob? Yes, sir. Mr. Hoffman, come on up. Tell us either microphone, whatever you're comfortable with. Uh, so this is an appointment as an alternate member of the, to the design review board to serve the remainder of a three year term to expire September 25th, 2028. Tell us about yourself.

So I had never really thought about civic service until I was talking to Eric Morgan. He mentioned something about the zoning board and the zoning board was full. At the time, this happened probably two months ago. I was in the process of building a home here in Birmingham. So the home was done. I'm now a resident. I reached back out to Eric and asked him if they still needed help. He mentioned that they didn't at the time because it was full, and he said, Take a look at some of the other boards and see if there's something that might be of interest to you. So I looked at the design review board, my background's in architecture, my education's in architecture, got involved with the family business that was much more lucrative in architecture, so involved in sales, marketing, operations, was always involved in construction because we built a lot of our facilities we built. We work with municipalities much like this to get zoning exceptions. With my background, the scope as far as looking at different facades, how they interact with the community, also green spaces, urban planning, all of those different things, it's of interest to me. At this point in my life, I have time that I can commit to some civic service. That's the gist of my interest.

Well, thank you for applying. Does anyone on the Commission have any questions for Mr. Hodgkin? Commissioner Hurst.

You say that you lived here before. Can you tell us when and for what period that was?

So I lived in Poppleton for 18 months. That would have been in 2018 and 2019, and then went through a divorce, moved, and moved back.

more than I needed to know.

Stand by. Is Brian Haynes in the room? Mr. Haynes? Yes. Come on up. Take the podium. The lectern. So, introduce yourself, tell us what's up.

Good evening, Mayor Beller, good evening, Commissioners. My name is Brian Haynes. I'm a resident of 287 Ruffine Road in Birmingham, Michigan for the last year and a half. And I've got over 30 years of hospitality design and development across more than 20 plus states and I've been on both sides of the coin as far as opening and being through city code and commission a lot of signage review patio permits exhaust every form of kind of code you could come up against And I'm at a point in my life as well where I've finally got an opportunity where I can give back. And I think my background and my history with development, specifically commercial hospitality development, could come into play and be an important part of what's happening in Birmingham with a lot of the development that's happening now. And understanding where the businesses are coming from as well as how code helps in many cases You know form an identity for a community And where it can hurt if there's not enough appropriate code or direction for businesses as well. So yeah, I'm really interested to learn more about it and Put put my background to use great.

Thank you. Any questions for mr. Haynes? I No. Thank you. I will note, before I open the floor to nominations, it's unfortunate there's only one opening. You both seem very qualified. We really appreciate your willingness to serve. And with that, I will... Commissioner Long.

I'd like to make a nomination for Mr. Rob Hoffman. The qualifications of the Design Review Board state that one member should be an architect duly registered in the state. The current architect left once and was cajoled into coming back, but is probably not there for the long term. So if we have an opportunity to appoint Mr. Hoffman as an alternate as an architect, I think that would be helpful, though I agree that both candidates are very qualified.

Second. No second necessary. However, if there is another nomination, Okay. All those in favor of Mr. Hoffman? Aye. I hope you, please stay, Mr. Haynes, please stay engaged. Really. We have many needs. Feel free to call or write and we'll point you in the right direction. We like you. Stick around. Oh, we cannot, you're the only one, so she will swear you in right now.

so you will raise your right hand and say, I do that for me. I do soundly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States of America and the Constitution of this state, and endeavor to secure and maintain an honest and efficient administration of the affairs of Birmingham, free from partisan distinction or control, and to perform the duties of Office of Design Review Board according to the best of my ability.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Congratulations. Thank you. That's up to you. We moved to open to the public for matters not on the agenda. If you are in the room or online on Zoom, use the raise your hand function. If you're in the room, come on up. This is an opportunity to speak for up to three minutes on any item that is not anywhere else on the agenda.

Can I start? good evening hi hi i'm danielle malin 811 tottenham road um i am here tonight because i'm really disappointed that you guys still haven't decided on a seventh member of your commission that it doesn't seem to be a pressing priority um so that's one note i'd like to make um and the second i was really taken aback by the 5.2 million dollar purchase of the community house um Yeah, I didn't know we had that kind of money just laying around and I am really surprised that it wasn't put to the voters like the senior center was really concerned. I know, you know foundation. I've been reading about it that there's a foundation but I'm like, are we the residents funding that foundation? Like how is this all going to work? I I Yeah, I think it's a terrible idea, actually. I don't know what else to say. Really disappointed that it just moved so quickly. And again, the voters, the residents were not consulted. So that's it. Thank you.

I do want to correct the record. While there was a vote on a senior millage to support the renovation of the building, there was no vote of the public on the purchase of 400 East Lincoln. That was a decision made by the City Commission. We are your elected representatives, so we make a lot of decisions on behalf of the residents and taxpayers and electors of Birmingham. I'll leave it at that.

I see the value. I'm thrilled as a 56-year-old. I'm thrilled for the senior center. I see the value in that for the city. I don't see the same value in the community house. I think someone else could have bought it and it would have been great. I just don't see it. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Diana Lopez. I spoke here a few weeks ago. I too would like to say that I'm disappointed that you haven't selected a seventh member, but that's not my most pressing concern this evening. I live not far from Woodward Avenue, and over the last four and a half years that my husband and I have been living in Birmingham, the noise level has increased astronomically. And I notice it's not on agendas. It doesn't appear to be a pressing issue for the city. But I mean, I don't know off the top of my head, but I know there are multiple studies that point to the fact that sound noise is detrimental to your mental and physical well-being. And on top of that, I have been I have spoken with candidates and individuals who are currently in the state Senate and Congress here in Michigan. And I was told, oh, this is a city issue. Then I talked to the city and they're like, it's a state issue because Woodward is technically a state highway. Unfortunately, I don't know how it works, but Ferndale somehow managed to get their miles per hour down to 35 and also have sound ordinances. So putting a really fun little thing outside on Woodward that says, be quiet, drive slow, that doesn't do anything. We need better rules and regulations. I have called the police department multiple times over this. And it's not just like one weekend out of the year during Dream Cruise where we can all know and leave. It is every single night of the week. And it goes until all hours. I have been up at like 1 a.m. in the morning on a Monday because their car is just revving their engines. And as the city continues to grow, this problem is only going to get worse. I don't know what has to be done in order for this to become a serious enough issue for it to be added to the agenda, but it is something that I would personally, and I know several other people who live near Woodward would like to see resolved relatively soon. The second it has no snow or ice on the ground and it hits like 50 degrees, you can count on the fact that there will be people outside on Woodward Avenue revving their engines, driving, you know, there'll be people just, you know, just their chairs sitting there to watch, enjoy. And that's great for them, but not for those of us who live in the community. It has become a massive problem. And I'd really like to see something done about it. That's all. Thank you.

I want to respond to you before you go. Yeah. We definitely, we have talked about this quite a bit. Okay. Our power to address the issue is limited, severely limited. I don't think we've exhausted 100% of what we could do, but you're correct. It is a state road and state laws governing the devices on these automobiles and motorcycles and the sound levels. Permitted. I mean, this is what, so, you know, we can't change state law. So then, but how did Ferndale do it, right? Ferndale doesn't have a noise ordinance. They have nothing.

Yeah, they do. They have signs everywhere all over Ferndale saying like that there are quiet hours. They have a 35 mile per hour speed limit. How did they get that done?

Those are signs.

The speed limit's a whole other issue. And we cannot get the speed limit reduced. Believe me, we have discussed this many times with MDOT. Right now, if you want to get your speed limit reduced, you have to do a speed study. And if the speed study determines that the average speed is higher than your current speed, they will make you raise the speed limit. to the levels that 80% of drivers drive.

This is state law. I couldn't make this up, honestly. I just don't understand how Ferndale can get it done, right? Ferndale has had their speed limit for a long time.

We would be happy to explain that to you offline.

Okay.

Okay? We would be happy to have you contribute meaningfully to a grassroots effort to address

That's why I'm here. There's a group called Calm that put an outreach out on Facebook asking for people to come to tonight's meeting and speak at the open remarks. I didn't come because I love being here. I mean, I want to be at home watching Love Island like every other normal human being. But at the end of the day, it is a distraction.

Oh, it's more than a distraction. It's a public health emergency. It is a public health emergency. In my opinion.

And I know Natalie Price had a bill and it never passed committee.

That's right. I'm very familiar with this. I'm sorry we can't engage in a discussion. I appreciate, I want to hear from the other people. I want to tell you that we feel the pain. Many of us live just as close to it as you do. It is not something we're happy about. I'm going to propose, I already did, partially tongue-in-cheek but not really, I never got a response, that we back out of the Dream Cruise and do not participate in the Dream Cruise because The Dream Cruise is what caused this. Our support for the Dream Cruise in a way supports what comes out of it. I don't know that we'll do that. I'd like to force a discussion of that. I'd like to see some civil disobedience. That's not something I can do. Personally, the mayor of Birmingham is not going to go out on Woodward Avenue and stop traffic, but you could.

Right. Can we just have Ms. Eckers state about the road diet that we've applied and it hasn't been approved?

Yes, we did apply for a road diet along Woodward through in the Birmingham area. Which is what Ferndale has. It's a slow traffic, right? And it's been on MDOT's desk for, I'm going to say, three years.

So who do I need to talk to about that? Because obviously I have a big enough mouth. This is my second time at a city council meeting in a year.

the director of the Michigan Department of Transportation, and his boss, the governor.

Great.

Good luck with that.

Yeah.

She's notorious for good decisions. Okay.

Let's hear, I think we haven't heard...

Go ahead. I will keep this very short. My name is Mike McEwen. I live on Ruffner Avenue. I'm here also to talk about the noise, so I will keep it short. I think we had a good lively discussion already. I would be curious if we could get some information. I am very curious to dig into sort of what is in this group's control or out of the control with regards to it's a state issue or highway issue or council issue or commission issue, sorry. And what could be done creatively? I love that you're talking about grassroots efforts. We're here as part of that. We'd love to see this commission take a grassroots approach as well and partner with other adjacent neighborhoods, Ferndale, Royal Oak, and think of creative solutions. That's great to hear. I would also think, too, aside from the speed issue, there's the noise issue. And the woman over here made a great point saying she didn't know how Birmingham had $5.2 million for the community house. I'm wondering if there's funds to increase the police force along Woodward Avenue during the spring and summer and fall months when this is happening to give more tickets, steeper fines. If there's 5.2 million for that, maybe a few hundred thousand could go to five, six more police officers. I don't know how the math works out, but maybe something to consider.

Thank you. Thank you. And I will note that we have drastically increased the number of citations that are being given, and there's costs involved with that, and we're bearing those costs. Yes, ma'am.

I'll go first. Thank you. Hello, sorry. I'm not a natural public speaker and not a trained one, so bear with me. My name is Amanda Wickfall. You might know me. My mother, Joan Hynek. Actually, some of you might be familiar with that name. I was born and raised here in Birmingham, Michigan. Unfortunately, I'm no longer, well, not unfortunately, but I'm no longer a resident. For two things that I would like to speak of. One, it's kind of hard to get a hold of an agenda for the meeting. You have to get both an email address and a phone number, it seems like. No, you can go on the website. Every time I was redirected to sign up for a list and it said... You want to automatically get them sent to you. I was only recent to that and then recent to the city commission page, unfortunately, when I was looking for it. That's where all the agendas are. Okay. I was looking for it. So there's that. I was looking for it.

Not on the Thursday. Generally, the Thursday evening before the Monday of the meeting. then it was my problem with attention to detail.

The second thing, so I'm not a resident here. I'm in town dealing with my mother's estate and I have a huge issue with the flock cameras that are around. Before coming here, I checked and I didn't see any in Birmingham. I saw some that were on the borders and I assumed that they were belonging to other cities. And now I see that there's flock cameras on Woodward. And this means that they're collecting my personal private data and other people's as well. And I assume they say, oh, it's only license plate data, but it's by a private company. And I don't see that there's accountability there with that. We can't go back there and see how they're using your data. I can't opt out on this. Unfortunately, I can't consent to give my data. And also, unfortunately, I have to be here to deal with my mother's estate. I don't think that Birmingham should have flat cameras. I don't think there's accountability. And I think it's a terrible decision for the city. I would love to hear what the discussion was before. As I said, I couldn't find the other meeting minutes, but I would love to hear about the decision to use flat cameras.

We do have that, and if you leave maybe your name and email address with the city manager, we'll send you the material that we were presented with several meetings ago, a report from the police chief.

And? Is there a summary or like why there was a decision?

Sure. That'll be in the material that you'll be able to read.

Okay. I would love to hear what the decision or really quickly what the discussion was.

I'm sorry. I can't get into that right now.

My name is Erica Driscoll. I'm a resident of Beverly Hills. On Monday, May 11th, my husband was struck by a vehicle on 14 Mile and Bates and killed. He has walked the community of both Beverly Hills and Birmingham for over 20 years with our two dogs. On that morning, it was 8.20, he was crossing, heading southbound on Bates, crossing 14 Mile, when a woman was making a left-hand turn to head westbound on 14 Mile. The way your press release was written was if he was at fault because he was not crossing in a crosswalk. And there is no crosswalk there. This is an issue with Birmingham and Beverly Hills in the area surrounding my neighborhood. 14 Mile and Pierce is a hazard. 14 Mile and Southfield is worse. And 13 and a half mile or Beverly and Southfield is constantly having accidents. The marketing slogan you have is a walkable city. a disgrace because we went to the modal meeting last week and one of the topics that they first brought up was the fact that safety is constantly a topic of concern it's a constant how can vehicles how can pedestrians and how can cyclists all use the roads in a safe way and I am offended the way that press release was written to assume that it was somehow his fault that he was hit because there was no crosswalk. I don't know where this journey is going to take me, but I can tell you right now that I will not let his death go unnoticed and not make a change. I'm educating myself with the help of my neighbors who were there at the scene of the accident and provided my husband with some comfort and reassurance that he would be okay. I' m going to the village of it' s my understanding that that roadway is owned by or managed by oakland county we will be going to oakland county because this has next time it' s going to be a child because drivers have no patience they consistently run red lights on south field they consistently drive down the left turn lane to pass other vehicles or just to be able to go faster and unfortunately my two children have lost their father I' ve lost my husband of 28 years He has left nieces and nephews and wonderful friends behind, and it was a senseless death.

We are so sorry for your loss. And I'm sure that we all feel awful. And I'm sorry if the news release came across that way.

And I've asked other people what was their interpretation of it. It's all very consistent. So I will be going to your communications committee and asking for a re-release on that.

Please do. And please stay engaged because...

I'm not going to be engaged. I'm going to make a difference here.

So my name is Susan Lamphere. My husband is James Lamphere and we were the first to reach him after he had been hit. Again, his name was Jerry Driscoll. Want him to be very real to all of you because he was an amazing guy. of golf, loved music, loved his kids and his wife more than ever, I think. He was crossing where my husband and I cross all the time and that is Bates and 14 and it is the most direct way to walk to the library from Beverly Hills. particularly if you're west of Bates. And as you know, we contribute to the library. So in the summer in particular, we walk year round, but in the summer, kids are out of school and they're everywhere. The library is a huge draw. Obviously the park there too, you've got the carnival, you've got the art fair, you've even got Santa in the cold months, but... I thank you for your service to the community, but I also need your support of a crossing there, hopefully a lighted crosswalk there, similar to maybe what is in Clawson.

In front of the senior apartments in Clawson, there's a crosswalk with a stop sign and a flashing sign.

I mean, Jerry was tall and he was walking his two Labrador, so big dogs. We don't know how she didn't see him. I mean, you know, you have to constantly, you know, look to make sure your traffic, your lane is open for your car. I mean, you always have to obviously be looking where you're going. And so... I mean, people, you know, do stupid things and make mistakes, but a lighted crosswalk there probably would have saved his life. And she would have her husband and her two kids would have their father and they would be taking their trip of a lifetime to Italy where they were going to take their daughter for... study abroad program. She's not going to see him when she graduates and walk her down the aisle, all those things that fathers do. Just would like your support and Starting with maybe a lighted crosswalk there Bates and 14 We will go to the road commission and Beverly Hills. We know they've got money They've been doing a lot with sidewalks and crossings as well Obviously, there's other crossings that could be improved too, especially around schools You know the lighted the lighted crosswalks really seem to you know seem to make a difference so often when somebody's driving they're looking for cars and not for kids and or pedestrians.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Monty Hoover. I'm on the Multimodal Board of Transportation. I joined a couple of months ago. I've been to two meetings. I'm very sorry for your loss. I came here tonight because I heard the story last week and I was on the board. And one of the things that I talked about when I came here to join the board was the safety. My wife and I are avid walkers in Birmingham. We're out tonight. Excuse my casual appearance. We decided to walk. I was going to put on a sport coat, come up, but I thought, you know what, we're going to walk up. And you know the point is it's it is very dangerous out there and there's a lot that can be done with with signage and there's a lot of things that that need to be done Birmingham has more restaurants and things than they've ever had it we're seeing more and more people coming from in a from out of town I walk all the time I've probably been asked 50 times where our ages so we're getting a lot of people from out of town that don't know a lot of things and just one example of an of an intersection that my wife sitting back there that we've noticed that walking from the Daxton to RH and vice versa, right there across Brown, cars that are turning left, So they're going north on Old Woodward. They're going to go west and it is something how many cars just go through the intersection. It doesn't matter that the people have the right of way. And so I did want to do a little bit of me search and research on my own. I drove up there. I almost never drive in Birmingham, but I drove up there the other day about a week ago. And there's so much stimulus at a lot of these intersections. You've got you had three trucks parked in unloading into the Daxton. you' ve got the left turn lane you have all the people out of the daxton you' ve got the valet you' ve got people moving in and out you' ve got adachi you' ve got rh people are looking at everything that' s going on and the signal when you go left you know they think I've got a green light you know and they've got a little opening to go so they gun it they're on it and then five or six cars will follow through and you know and and they don't stop you do if you're standing in that intersection you'll get the little wave like sorry but it's only a matter of time and there's there's a lot of those I think there needs to be a yield to but I don't think people see it there's so much going on and they're waiting for their opportunity those are just one example of multiple now suggestions and a lot of cases are worthless I've got a bunch of intersections that I know about that are they're dangerous I can talk about a couple of when I came here I'm gonna list all those out and I not just gonna say what's dangerous I'm gonna say some signage things some lighted signs and that that I'm going to give to Leah the city planner she's involved with their multimodal board but I also think that there's some confusion about who's responsible for safety when they came to the board I brought up safety safety everybody's like wow that's not our job it's this person it's over there you got to send an email here you got to send an email there I think it needs to be consolidated into You know, maybe the multimodal board needs to own it. It doesn't mean we're spending any money on it But we're it's got one single source to say is so-and-so following up on this as someone doing what they need to hear It doesn't seem like there's an ownership relative to safety issues in the city I could be very wrong But just when I brought it up we kind of heard not our charter not our thing and I was like I kind of completely and you heard me, I'm like, well, what is our charter? If safety isn't our number one thing at the multimodal board, what are we there for? And so I just think there needs to be, and I think we're gonna make it part of ours, but we really do need to look at more aggressively and proactively safety aspects. And there's a lot of small changes, not big infrastructure, small changes that can be made to make things more visible.

Thank you. Yep, thanks. I don't think it's true that the Multimodal Board is not concerned with safety. I actually had a conversation just this week about a possible direction to the Multimodal Board with regard to crosswalks and such.

It just wasn't clear on who was taking ownership of it.

Could be Would you like to make a comment at this well?

I would just wanted to add that it is it is tricky. This isn't a good excuse but The Road Commission for Oakland County owns that road so whatever happens there has to go through them We could certainly make a plea to them as could Beverly Hills, but ultimately we don't have the control over that road

But the suggestion was that there's no clear ownership, let's say, of pedestrian safety in Birmingham on our streets.

Well, I'm not sure that that's true either. I think that we hire a transportation consultant, we have the police department, and we have the multimodal board. All three of those are constantly looking at safety issues we have the multimodal plan that was done that identified the areas of potential areas of concern where we've added mid-block crossings we've had added signalized intersections you know we fought with mdot for years to get that one at forest and brown it's it's just very fragmented depending on who owns the road i think it's safe to say we'll be giving it more attention

Anyone else in the room? Open to the public. Mr. Davies, online. You can unmute yourself. I'm also on the Moctomotor Transport Board, like you know.

but I really wanted to talk about the process a little bit. We went through this and I have a lot of friends in common with the people involved in this accident and I think the I was trying to help with a process of how, if they want to put a stop sign in there or an on-demand crossing sign on there, how that would go about. And obviously it's a county road, so it will be elevated. But the one thing on the back of my mind is that we've seen many situations like this where we try to get pedestrian walkways put in and then the traffic consultants go out and for me they seem to go out and look at the car usage and look at the speed of the cars, how many there are and in this case it's going to be whether they're allowed to back up if it gets hit twice in a row, whether they can back up through the piers junction and all that sort of stuff. but what's missing is the amount of people crossing the road. So the one thing I'll be looking for, I don't know whether Birmingham is initiating it or Oakland or anyone else initiating some sort of getting the consultants involved for a traffic study. The thing I'll be looking for is have they actually surveyed how many people actually cross that road on lanes? I mean, I've done it myself with my Strava app, And I've done over 10 times last year. I know someone else has done it like 50 times. And there's a lot of people using that junction and it's just a quirk of the way the roads are laid out. I know Piers is right there and everyone says, why walk up Piers? Well, the way the subdivision works, it doesn't really, it lends itself to go up eights. So, I think if someone's going to do a traffic study, I want to be iterated and maybe, because that normally happens before it becomes public, that one of the things they should be looking at is the number of people crossing and the types of people crossing that road, because I'm not at that junction of Bates going north and south across 14 miles. I think it's quite unique to this area.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, sir. Anyone else in the room or online? Seeing none, we'll move to the next item on our agenda, which is the consent agenda. All items on the consent agenda are routine and will be enacted by one motion and approved by a roll call vote. We don't discuss each item separately unless a commissioner or a citizen requests that an item be removed. Item B. We're going to move right along. Would any commissioners like any items removed? We have B? Yes. I, India, Jay, Juliet. Wait, I'm sorry, what? I, India, Jay, Juliet. I and Jay. Any others? Does anybody in the audience, members of the public online or in the room wish that any item be removed from the consent agenda? Seeing none, may I have a motion?

I'd like to move the consent agenda excluding items B, I, and J.

Second. Roll call, please.

Mayor Pro Tem, Therese Long. Yes. Commissioner Kozlowski.

Yes.

Commissioner Host.

Yes.

Commissioner Kolb.

Yes.

Commissioner Haag.

Yes.

Mayor Ballard.

Yes. Item B, Commissioner Cole. Yes, so on the Tuesday, May 19th minutes, on the roll call, it shows Andrew Haig is absent. That's on page 46. On page 50... he was absent because he was recused and we have a recused column on page 50 and we say there's no one that had to be recused. Commissioner Haag did have to be recused. So those are two.

Those are easy fixes. We can take a look and get it right.

Okay. That was it. Would you like to move the suggested resolution subject to the corrections? Yes. Second. Second. Oh, we have a second roll call on that one.

Mayor Ballard? Yes. Mr. Host? Yes. Commissioner Hague?

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Yes. Commissioner Kolb?

Yes.

Commissioner Klosowski?

Yes. Item I, Commissioner Hague. Really simple. It's just a very big number, so I wanted a roll call on it rather than just pass it. That was it. No questions.

Any discussion? Would you like to move the suggested resolution? Move the suggested resolution as written. Second. Roll call, please. Just for the public's benefit, this was a resolution to approve the police department renovation expansion for the Sallyport and dispatch expansion project here at City Hall, and the cost is $900,000. So when he mentioned the cost as being a reason for pulling it, that's the cost.

Mayor Ballard?

Yes.

Commissioner Host?

Yes.

Commissioner Haag?

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Yes. Commissioner Kozlowski? Yes. Commissioner Cole?

Yes. Another unanimous vote.

Item J. It was the same thing. I couldn't remember if the threshold was $70,000, so that's why I pulled that one as well.

The threshold for city manager approval? Yeah, I just couldn't remember. What is the threshold? I thought it was 75. I couldn't remember.

Oh, for the budget amendments?

Well...

I think it depends what count it's coming to and from.

Yeah, this is not technically a...

It's not a purchasing... You're probably thinking of the purchasing guideline of $75,000. This is not that. It doesn't fall under that same rule.

Because this is a budget amendment.

Right.

It was just because it was a bigger number. That was it. I just couldn't remember what the criteria was, and so I just thought we're voting on money, so... just go through it by name. So motion to approve the budget amendment as written for the amount of $72,800. Second.

And for the benefit of those watching, this is for an addendum to our agreement with Wisjani and Associates Engineering Services for the Chester Street parking deck.

Mayor Pro Tem Wong? Yes. Commissioner Hayes? Yes. Commissioner Host?

Yes.

Mayor Ballard?

Yes.

Commissioner Kozlowski?

Yes.

Commissioner Cole?

Yes. Okay, we're going to skip the city manager's report because there is none. We have no unfinished business and we move to new business. First item of new business is a hearing of necessity for the Cape Seal Special Assessment District, the 2027 Cape Seal Program. And I will open the public hearing at 7.44 p.m. So do we have Ms. Cota?

Good evening, City Commission. We'll have a quick presentation on this item. this is for the 2027 Cape still program for the special assessment district overview of the streets that Cape Seals proposed on existing unimproved roads the beat Buckingham from Enderboro to st. Andrews Stanley from Lincoln to Wallace and then to Hannah to Brown Glen Hurst from right now to writing line Hurst from right now to writing Fairview from Chesterfield to the West at end and now Pleasant from Lincoln to Maple Road the special assessment or the sad For the Cape still will defray the cost incurred by the city for construction of the Cape seal treatment So with this this shows a location without the city about the streets are proposed in the 2027 Cape seal program and Then some here's some breaking down the maps to be able to see the locations for this So this is in this portions in the northwest part of the city that shows The streets located here this is on the easterly part of the city near maple and Coolidge and this location kind of shows the southwest portion of the city and then this location right here kind of shows just south of the downtown area of those individual streets. So historical information some of these streets last time have been cape sealed they range anywhere from 2008 to 2014 depends on which block that was done but information about the previous year that the street was cape sealed is provided on this slide. And then the city's policy for maintenance on unimproved road. The first special assessment district that was done for Cape Seal was called Dustproofing in 1948. With that, 85% of the short cost, fronting all properties, fronting the improvement, and then 25% of the long cost for all residential properties, citing the improvement. The last two of the policies is for businesses that are on a Cape Seal treatment road. And for the roads proposed for the 2027 Cape Steel program, no businesses are located on the edge of the roadway. With this, the overall estimated cost is $471,828.75. The scope is to pulverize double chip seal and slurry. The total footage along the project is 14,091.82 feet, and the accessible front footage along the project is 10,559.74. Then the cost per foot calculates out to $33.48. So with this, this indicates the more kind of a zoomed in location map of the properties that are located in the Cape Seal District. This map is all on Buckingham from Edinburgh to St. Andrews. And this shows the condition of the existing street. The next slide is for Stanley from Lincoln to Wallace. And then that shows the conditions of the street in that location. and then the next side is Stanley from Hannah to Brown and then this shows the existing conditions out there on that portion of the street. Next slide is Glenhurst from right now to Redding and here's photos of the existing conditions of the street in this location. And then the Lyonhurst from right now to Redding And here's pictures of existing conditions in this location. And then the last street Fairview from Chesterfield to the dead end. This is some of the existing conditions out there. Oh, sorry, we got one more street. My apologies. Pleasant from Lincoln to Maple. And here's conditions of the street. so with this engineering department recommends that the city commission declares a necessity improve the special assessment district for the 2027 cape seal program for cape seal treatment and should the commission approve the special assessment district a public hearing for confirmation the role will be held on june 20th sorry june 22nd 2026 and that's the end of the presentation thank you uh members of the public this is your turn to public hearing so come on up and

hi my name is tom schism I live on fairview and been there for almost 37 years. Once time off and I bought the same house twice I think a lot of you guys never heard that before but that' s the best picture of fairview I' ve ever seen by the way I don' t know who took it but that' s fairview at its finest. Subsequent to all of this chip seal discussion going on there was also a vote taken by the residents on Fairview of which there are 20 and A majority voted for new sewers in a new street And we would definitely not want to pay for the chip seal and then turn around and pay for a new street that is approved and we' re hoping that would be approved as soon as it possibly could. I work with mark of the city' s engineering office on this he' s in receipt of that. It' s basically a proposal signed by our residents and it has notarized etc. and it' s a petition? yes at his direction.

If I may? Yes, please. So with this, we bid this project, the 2027 Cape Seal program with the 2026 project. Over this past winter. So late 25 early 2026 So with this we bid the to 26 and 27 capes ill program So we received bid and cost at the beginning of this year The petition came in around I would say end of March beginning of April for them for an unapproved to improve Road as mentioned at the resident meeting that engineering department held about a last week or a week and a half ago. We did mention that the petition is going forward. The next step is for the engineering department to create a letter and essentially a booklet of information to the residents to schedule the resident meeting, have the resident meeting and then bring forward to city commission to proceed with design as long as the petition stays above 50%. That's currently happening right now. With this we understand there's a petition for this street and then actually Pleasant just turned in a petition two weeks ago. with this we understand that we' re working on the conversion from an unimproved to improved road petition but with this the cape seal contractor potentially has room in august to cape seal some of the streets its weather dependent and schedule dependent so if we get a lot of rain this summer pushes back this whole schedule that some of the 2027 cape seal may not occur until spring of next year so with that the engineering department is coordinating them.

So if the petitions continue and the commission votes to go forward with design and they do intend to improve those two streets, they would be removed from the Cape Seal process.

Hold on, hold on. Let us understand this. We're now declaring necessity. That's all we're doing. We're not spending any money. We're declaring necessity. These two petitions, Fairview's relatively short. Pleasant's not. When are we going to do the contract to do these streets?

It would have to, after it goes out, sorry, once we get direction from city commission to proceed with design, it could take up to four to six months to design the project. I mean the contract for the Cape seal.

His point, their point is they don't want to pay for Cape seal and we don't want to do Cape seal if you're going to rip up the road and do the rest. So how are you dealing with that situation? That's what we want to know.

they would be removed from the Special Assessment District for Cape Seal if it ultimately gets approved to go for an improvement because they will get, there'll be a new Special Assessment District if the road is improved for each of those two streets.

Is the timing gonna work out there? In other words, the timing for designing a fairly large street and a short street, are you gonna be able to do that before we go to the contract? Did the contract or can you put out can you bid? one that Doesn't include that one that does not include that One we could do alternate bids, but I assume it's already been bid out.

Has it not? It's been out been bid out earlier this year earlier on this year So we already have we would have to go back and negotiate an addendum to the contract with the Cape ceiling. I

Let's hear from more public. How you doing? I'm Trevor George, 415 Pleasant, been a resident since 2017. Similar situation, we, the residents of Pleasant, I visited 34 homes of the 55, two of which are churches. 32 signed a petition for an improved road. We don't want a cape seal You know Pleasant is thank you for recognizing Pleasant's condition by the way And the residents would prefer an improved road curbs gutters water utilities I hear are 100 years old the storm drainage is too small for the water on the street And you know the rest of the homes that I didn't visit is just a matter of time So I do intend to finish visiting the rest of the homes, and I think given the proportion of responses I've received, 32 out of 34, we would continue to have a high rate of support for an improved road. So, same situation.

Are you guys going to talk to the same situation? Okay, but to Pleasant or Fairview? Okay, so my question on... to any one of you. One question, and an important one would be, at what point do we certify these He's telling us he's got these signatures. He's showing us, but do we at some point certify it? At which point it comes to us and we take your word that it's a certified position. The point is you need more than 50% to do a resident initiated improvement.

The engineering department certifies it and they won't move it forward to the commission to move forward for design unless they verify that over 50% have agreed. We have had instances where somebody would pull out.

Where are we in that process? So with that we're for Fairview we're in the part of getting a resident letter out hold a resident meeting to be able to go what our engineers estimated cost is for that street after that resident meeting usually come to city commission about two to three weeks after that resident meeting to get a motion to be able to start design on that street.

Have you certified that you have more than 50 percent?

We have certified that we've got more than 50% and we're now in the process of getting the letter created.

Of starting the process.

So the resident meeting is kind of a little bit where the rubber meets the road in terms of costs and somebody who said, yeah, sure. And then you say, well, you know this is going to cost you $20,000 and they're like, maybe not.

Actually, you're pretty spot on. The civil engineers write a petition letter cover letter that includes an overview of the costs And most of the frontage on a street like Pleasant and I assume yours is probably fairly equal. So they give a range of $20,000 to $30,000 per home. And all the residents have a clear understanding of the costs included in going forward with an improved road. Ahead of time, I create an entire not-so-pleasant street petition packet that they get with a cover letter, the outline costs from the civil engineers. little bit about the differences between a Cape seal and an improved Road What are the things that they address pros and cons straight from the Birmingham website? So I think Pleasant Street at least I can speak on behalf of those that I visited are well educated on both the cost and the differences between the two and can Can you sir say the same thing?

Did the same exact thing that they did unpleasant ours our? residents know that what it's going to cost almost not down to the penny per foot, but we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of times where we' ve had a couple of

administration assure the Commission that if we go ahead and do what you want us to do tonight that these guys that we're not going to have a problem going forward this is the first step for this ad so this is just the hearing of necessity so yes you'll have another and assure us that we're not going to have a monkey wrench in the

We're not going to charge them twice. Okay, we're not going to be charged twice.

We're not going to cape seal the road that we're eventually going to pave. And, okay, we're going to continue with the public hearing.

But to the point there, if I may, for clarity. Under the confirmation, we've given assessed cost or an estimated assessed cost for everybody. That was my question a few minutes ago. What does it do to the cost? Because we are actually motioning on something with estimated costs that potentially may go up on a per unit basis because it being a shorter distance if these two streets are taken out. Because the fixed cost isn't going to change, just the variable that will change slightly. I just want to be careful because typically when we give an estimate, yes, there is a plus minus on it. But we just want to make it very, very clear. It could be a plus and not a minus on the remaining properties because I think you guys have done an exceptional job of educating your streets and doing what you've done. I'm very impressed, actually. But I don't want anybody else to get caught out by this potential difference.

So the message is that the numbers that are represented here today could actually go up if we remove Pleasant is a mile long, a half mile? Half mile.

Or perhaps we could add another street in.

Well, I don't know if we could add another street. We would have to do another hearing of necessity. But if there are other streets that are roughly the length of these two streets, I'd have a hard time finding them. That we could do? Okay. Move on.

Yes. Mr. Dilgard. Yes. George Dogar, 1619 Fairway, live on the southwest corner of Pleasant and Fairway. And I talked with Mark in engineering last week, and I'm pulling a petition to do the other eight properties on Pleasant, which is south of Lincoln. So I hope to turn those in next week, and I don't see any issue with getting a 50 plus percent. And so I would like to tag along with- For Cape Seal? No way. Improved street.

Why would years nobody can do this and all of a sudden we have... So anyway, we want an improved street and I'll get the petition in.

I just wanted to give you a heads up.

Okay, but that's unrelated to this. Yes, ma'am.

Suzanne Lasser, 1120 North Glenhurst. I lived through the last repaving, which was pre-COVID. None of you were here. You were. We were told at that time that our street would be done, going north from, we're now running, would be done the next year. We laughed, we knew it wouldn't be, but we were told that. We were also told that that was, would be of no charge to us because we had curbs. So I think there is a misunderstanding of improved street. So I would like that clarification because we are under, people on the block were under the understanding that we are an improved street. Now I hear we are not an improved street. One's right, one's wrong. But none of you were here, so you're not to blame for any of that. The other question, which really partially has to do with Glenhurst, but more on other streets. The residents did not make this mess. And I know it's been addressed to you, Mr. Baller. This mess has come from trucks, from builders, from gardeners, from people ripping up lawns and tree people coming in. And then the residents are left with the mess that everybody makes, the mess being the price to pay. I know that suggestions have been made of how you can tax or collect back from these people, all of which it seems that you're gonna take under consideration. We can't keep saying under consideration and not do anything. You're asking people to spend a lot of money on property that they did not ruin. Part of it is wear and tear, I agree with that. But very little of it, when you look at those major trucks and their equipment that they just leave there, this huge equipment, that's really putting dents and making the roads a mess. And I just don't want an answer that we will take it under consideration, because that can be five years from now.

Okay, I'm not sure what you're referring to that we would take under consideration.

How you're going to charge all these builders, landscapers, tree people, everybody who has ruined the streets with their equipment and their trucks. It is not the cars that are coming up and down the streets and you know that as well as I do.

Sure. No, there are many users of our streets. To answer your first question about it has curbs, therefore it's improved, no. There are plenty of streets that have curbs that are unimproved. Trust me, I lived on one, live on one.

I trusted the other people who said that they were, so I'll trust you too.

Okay, I'm just telling you there are some unimproved streets that have curbs.

So either you're lying or they're lying. One of the two and I don't know which, so it's okay. Go on.

I don't think anybody's lying.

Well, it's either you're reading it one way, they read it another way. One of the two of you is correct.

Well, I can tell you it is official public policy of the city of Birmingham that there are unimproved streets that have curbs.

And I have heard the exact opposite from a gentleman sitting right where you are.

So we need to move along as far as what we are doing with regard to like trucks and construction work and damage to streets. That's very hard to pinpoint and to but we do take a bond from a builder who's building a house and we we photograph, this is a relatively new program, we take $5,000, we photograph the street, we try to keep an eye on it, we ask, we could photograph the street and then come back after the construction and there's damage, and it still is difficult to determine who damaged it. Was it a direct result of that construction project or was it something else? We're going to try. I'm sure that there will be builders who are going to be asked to forfeit a portion of that money. Now, one thing we have not discussed is where that money will go. Whether that's just going to go into a local street fund, a major street fund, the general fund, or be set aside to defray the cost of special assessments and other costs later on by the same proportion. That has not been discussed, needs to be discussed.

In a timely manner.

Yeah, the question has been asked and the administration I'm quite sure is contemplating that and will come back to us with their suggestion and then it would be up to us. But we don't have any of that money right now, so it's sort of a moot question.

How long have you been taking this bond?

Not long. Less than a year. Less than a year, okay. Now, as far as taxes or fees on builders, as has been suggested, we don't have much of a tax authority. We can't tax and our fees, it's a question to be asked and the city attorney has been asked. I'm sure you are the recipient of the same email that I and perhaps others received and we are asking the city attorney who has a full plate to answer that question as well. So I hope, I think I've answered all your questions. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. So I'm Harvey Bell. I've lived on Pleasant for 51 years and you know, I was happy to see the 1948 reference to how things were set up as to the benefit of the people that live on the street and how that gets assessed because I think you all need to take a different approach and recently Trevor George's initiation, the police did a survey of traffic on Pleasant. Now if you think about Pleasant, you're right, it's a half mile long. It also happens to be a prime fire lane, correct? fire and EMS comes rolling down the streets like blazing all the time. It's a great way to go north and south. It's also services to big churches. When I first moved to Pleasant, it was illegal to turn right on Sunday mornings between hours because the church traffic was so heavy and that got residents and church attenders in some debate. Now, the recent survey on traffic has 1,200 vehicles a day. There are 55 houses on the street. If each house made a round trip of three a day, that's 330 vehicles. And I would contend that that major source of the extra traffic in addition to police and fire making the run and church traffic is high school students because high school students going to see home high school can avoid three stoplights by coming, if they're coming west on Maple, they turn, go south on Pleasant and then come across on Lincoln. So they've avoided three stoplights. well if i'm late for school that's a no-brainer so i think you all really need to think about a different way to handle the cost because it's irrational to say that only the residents benefit because as i look at it the fire department benefits the church attenders have benefited and the high school students so i think in previous discussions i've had with many We've talked about the potential for floating a bond for unemployed roots not to mention the sewers when the Methodist Expanded their church up there the added water Runoff into the sewers then packed up houses and flooded basements because the additional off flow So for something for you all to think about as you go through assessing costs Because there's a lot more than 55 people that use and benefit for pleasant

Thank you, and I can assure you we are thinking about it. You want to address?

I just wanted to know that there is a church getting assessed as part of the special assessment district. As is the city of Birmingham.

A tax-exempt organization is not 100% tax exempt.

Correct. Let me just say one thing on that. The church would be assessed the proportionate frontage to the homeowners, but the homeowners have one to four cars in their driveway and the church has 200. The density of the parking lot is vastly different than the frontage.

That's correct. I was going to note that we will soon be presented with an RFP to hire a consultant to help us draft an infrastructure master plan that we'll address. You are all invited to participate in the process of evaluating our funding mechanisms and our capital requirements, not over the next one or two or five or six years, but long term.

Good evening, everyone. Mike Xavier at 1819 Fairview. Mr. Chisholm was nice enough to talk about how we have the petition going on. I just want to clarify, Ms. Kota has already come to Fairview a few years ago and explained the costs and everything that goes into it and the difference between Cape Seal and doing the full renovation of the road. a bigger issue we should point out is beyond the fact that the road is awful quality is that there's no drainage and so the cape so really doesn't affect that the lack of sewer is a lack of drainage the cape seal might flatten it a little bit more but the water is nowhere to go the birds bathe on our streets you know it takes weeks for it to dry and in the winter time essentially an ice rink in a death trap for anyone that doesn't realize where they're walking and so the cape seal may somehow get rid of some potholes but the actual underlying issues themselves will not go away until everything is dug up and replaced we're aware we have some of the oldest water and sewer lines in the city and we've been told that if something bad happens it's no longer a time game it's just they have to dig everything up and fix it and we're all trying to be proactive here at this point We don't like the concept of something going wrong and then having the whole road dug up and God knows how long we have lack of water or sewer line to the houses, so The petition is good for the city and good for the street good for the city But the Cape still doesn't address the actual major issues with our road and so while we would appreciate having but house half the houses with children the ability to have them roll their plate and maybe ride their bikes on a cape seal finish quickly the actual issues that affect our road need the full repair and so the cape seal doesn't really address anything and we don't want to be double billed. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, Catherine Orion. I actually live next door to him and I actually have a massive sewer issue and have for since I moved into that house. It is a public health hazard. Every time, probably five times a year, there's a heavy rain. I get sewage in my basement. every time I've sent photos I was told oh this is a once in a hundred year event they seem to be happening five times a year so the Cape Seal issue is a big issue for me because I think it's a public health hazard not to mention the fact constant standing water all summer on our street with mosquitoes we have young children my children are grown but we have young children if for some reason We have the votes, but if for some reason when we have the street meeting and we lose one or two votes, I want to know what the plan is to deal with the infrastructure because the infrastructure is actually dangerous.

Oh, we'll have to get across that bridge when we come to it, but it sounds like you have a super majority already, right?

Well, as of now, we do, but I just, you know, like I said, Mike hit the nail on the head. The Cape still is not going to do anything.

Right. There are things, by the way, that you can do as a homeowner to sort of bulletproof your house from sewer backups.

I've had plumbers out. They've inspected it. I've done a number of things. It doesn't matter. My drain is straight across from the main line, and it's a straight line into my basement. I'm at the point where social media and the news might need to see my mess. I don't know.

Well, it sounds to me like we're making progress on the issue, right?

Okay.

john morella 1875 fairview residence since 1985 I do think improvements need to be made to the street my biggest concern is if we move forward with going with an improved road I don't I don't I think we will lose some signatures if we don't Would this be addressed during the meeting after the packet would go out? Because I think that if the sidewalk issue is pressed, we're going to wind up like with what happened on Arlington and Shirley, where the neighborhood was not agreeable to sidewalks. Do you have sidewalks now? We don't currently have sidewalks, but you want them you we don't want sidewalks You don't want we do not want sidewalks on the street, and it's a very short dead-end street So what it would be advisable to maybe collect a petition requesting no sidewalks

ahead of time so that what we do have the next meeting that we were prepared and it wouldn't we wouldn't have a you know a roadblock does that make sense you are a correct me if i'm wrong you're a dead end street we are dead there's like six houses on each side ish how many houses total 22 22 houses and you all are if that's would be an exception i think that uh we I don't think we would be struggling with that.

All right. I'm just trying to get ducks in a row so that there aren't any stumbling blocks. So if we did collect those signatures.

Ducks in a row are a great idea. Okay. Okay, very good. Just lined up. Okay, thank you. Anybody else? Anybody online? Seeing none, we will close the public hearing at at 8.17 p.m. and entertain a motion. And we will ask the city attorney, this city attorney, what her preference is as to the reading of the motion.

The entire motion. So take that into account if you volunteer. He was hoping you would change it. I know.

So. Fire away.

Whereas notice was given pursuant to section 94-7 of the city code to each owner and party in interest of property and lots to be assessed by first-class mail and by publication and newspaper generally circulated in the city and whereas the City Commission has conducted a public hearing and has determined it is necessary to proceed with the project of resurfacing unimproved roads by method of pulverizing cement stabilization spray patching at Cape Seal surface and replacement of city sidewalk ramps and whereas the city has previously established a policy to defray the cost of Cape Seal treatments on unimproved streets by creating a special assessment district consisting of the properties that are benefiting from this treatment and whereas the city commission after the public hearing has determined that the 2027 Cape Seal program is a necessity and is in the best interest of the city and will especially benefit properties included in the Special Assessment District and whereas the Commission has approved the detailed plans and estimates of cost prepared by the City Engineer and whereas proposed costs by change order have been received in the cost of the unimproved roads resurfacing have been determined and whereas the City Engineer has determined the boundaries of the road surfacing and sidewalk ramp replacement Located within the limits of the following streets shall be installed as part of the 2027 Cape Seal program contract number 5-27P. Buckingham Road from Edinburgh Road to St. Andrews Road and Stanley Avenue, West Lincoln Avenue to Wallace Street. and Stanley Avenue, Hannah Street to West Brown Street, and North Glenhurst Drive, Raynal Street to Reading Road, and Lionhurst Road from Raynal Street to Reading Road, and Fairview Avenue from Chesterfield to the West Dead End, and Pleasant Avenue, West Lincoln Avenue to West Maple Road. And whereas the formula used in making the assessment is 85% of the front foot costs for improvement are assessed on all properties fronting the improvement and 25% of the side foot costs for improvement. are assessed on all residential properties citing the improvement, and 85% of the side foot costs for improvement are assessed on improved business properties citing the improvement, and 25% of side foot costs for improvement are assessed on vacant business properties citing the improvement for resurfacing of the unimproved roads and replacement of the sidewalk ramps. To meet ADA compliance calculated its rate of $33.48 per foot for properties on streets that will be pulverized, cement stabilization, and cape seal resurfaced. Let it therefore be resolved that the City Commission has determined that the scope of the public improvement as described is in the best interest of the City and will benefit the properties listed in the assessment roll is a necessity and the City Commission directs the City Manager to prepare a special assessment roll and present the same to the City Commission for confirmation and to further set a public hearing for the confirmation of the roll on June 22, 2020. 26 and give notice for same for the streets listed in the Commission packet section 8a pages 217 218 219 220 and 221 Noting the Sidwell numbers street addresses and estimated Cape seal assessment second Discussion on the motion Commissioner hate

Do we wish to put any kind of amendment in there just to note some of the discussion about the potential for removal of a couple of streets and that the cost estimates may then change just so it's a matter of record within this because they may well get pulled out.

Are you asking me?

Well, I think it does say clearly estimated Cape Seal assessment already.

I think the record's been established by discussing it, and I'm sure that there's minutes capturing that as well. I just wanted to ask. Okay.

Roll call.

Commissioner Cole?

Yes.

Commissioner Haag?

Yes. Mayor Ballard? Yes.

Commissioner Host?

Yes.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Yes. Commissioner Kozlowski?

Yes. Wonder of wonders.

Another unanimous decision. One question that doesn't affect the motion, though. Just a curiosity question. Just looking through a number of the listed owners. Are there any short-term rentals in this list? Maybe don't answer me right now. I'm just curious. Could someone let me know later? Thank you.

Okay. Is there anyone here for the next item, which is sewer and water laterals for the North Old Woodward project? You are here for that? Can we open the public hearing, take her comments, and then close the public hearing and discuss it and do everything later? Because we're keeping the administrator and two judges waiting.

You can switch the order of the agenda, but we generally put the public hearings first.

She's here for that. I'll be quick. Well, we need to open the public hearing. So the next item on the agenda is, what happened to it? A hearing of necessity for Sewer and Water Lateral Special Assessment District on the North Old Woodward Project Contract Number 8-26W. We're going to open the public hearing at 8.24 p.m. and quickly have a presentation.

Okay, so no third older project from Oak Street to Woodward includes new water main sewer improvements additional parking spaces and an asphalt road a special assessment for sewer and water levels to be paid by the property owner at 100% of the cost General information about the water main existing water main was installed in 1925 in this 8-inch Proposes to be a 12 inch size. Dr. Iron. It's nearly 100 years old The existing water main on north of Woodward is connected to Woodward Avenue which provides service to dead-end streets of Bloomfield Court and Colonial Court Also, several utilities are located in this area making it difficult to do directional drilling Here's you've seen this picture before what sometimes existing old water mean looks like in And then for the sewer, existing sewer is from 10 inches to 15 inches. The date's unknown. It just shows up on the map starting around the 1940s. Proposed sewer is 12 and 8 inch to 18 inch storm sewer and 18 inch to 24 inch combined sewer. Sections of the sewer required to be open cut replacement due to the condition of the pipe net being a candidate for sewer lining. Existing catch basins are in poor condition and would need replacement. And several utilities are located in this area. and the existing combined sewers only located a few feet from those other utilities example AT&T consumers energy their gas main. And so here's a picture of some of the videos for the sewer this area is not a candidate because we currently have a void in the sewer itself. So city's policy for water laterals is to replace all water services that are 60 years of age or older or less than one inch in diameter or constructive of unsuitable materials. All existing water laterals in this project area are two inches and larger because they serve a multifamily unit itself. So for this one right here, all of the existing water services will be replaced either with a two inch diameter or replaced with existing that's greater than two inches. And then for the sewer laterals, replacement of sewer laterals at 50 years of age and older or less than six inches in diameter or constructed with unsuitable material. All unsuitable laterals will be replaced with six inch scheduled 40 PVC or a match existing size if larger than six inches. Some of these properties do have a sewer lead that's larger six inches because it's a multifamily unit. With this, the water lateral is 100% cost to the property owner, sewer lateral is also 100% to the property owner and the cost could be either paying a lump sum or over time with interest. The interest rate will be confirmed at the confirmation of the rule. and so we received bids on May 28th for this project and provided up here on this one is the cost that we received per linear foot for replacement of these laterals to the properties. We do want to note that the condo association located in part of 1035 and 1047 North Old Woodward has a DTE cabinet right above both their water and sewer leads. So with that they have to be horizontal directionally drilled so that way we do not damage DTE's cabinet in that location. here' s an example of it. Here' s the cabinet located right here. Here' s the existing water and here' s the existing sewer so it' s running right underneath the utility cabinet itself. Here' s the proposed maps of the properties in the special assessment district. Yellow is if it' s in the sewer and has both a sewer and a water lateral special assessment and then blue the north property just has the water assessment because the sewer is located in the back portion of the And so here's the list of the addresses in the special assessment district. And then the engineering department recommends that the commission declares the necessity and approve the special assessment for North Old Woodward project for sewer and water literals. And then should you approve the special assessment tonight, the public hearing for confirmation of the role will be held on June 22, 2026. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Beth Lester. I live on North Old Woodward. To answer someone's question about short-term rentals, I don't know if that was implicitly Airbnb and Vrbo, but between Oak and Bloomfield Court, I do not believe any of them are used for that purpose. It's either owner-occupied or rented to a long-term tenant. My concern is about the new parking spots. There are two concerns one the trees being cut down those dampen the noise coming from Woodward and The other issue is how those parking spots are used the area in front of my building, which is right across from the mobile station It's basically the break room for a bunch of freelance car service drivers. They're not Uber or Lyft, they're independents. They litter, they loiter, they basically, they will set up shop and set up chairs on the lawn, on the green strip, pardon, they don't actually sit on the lawn. They basically have tailgate parties where they open the back of their SUV, a couple of them will sit there, they hang out. If you ask them not to litter, they claim it comes from the gas station. They're pretty disrespectful. Some of them will sleep in their cars if they have a late night. I've seen some other things. They're just generally disrespectful. They're about 19, 20 cars that come and go among this group. These are people who all talk to each other. It's not like these are independent people who just happen to come across. to this spot. So I'm concerned and as others are as well that with the expanded parking that it's just going to attract more people and we want something done so that this doesn't become an even bigger break room for the car service drivers. As of now, we don't know how to address it because it's not like they're doing anything specifically illegal. They're just annoying. Okay. Other than when they do that with their backseat and sweep out all sorts of garbage and you have to tell them to pick it up, they're not really doing anything where you can quite call the police and say, get them out of here.

Okay, that's not technically the subject of our hearing.

Our hearing was about sewer and the water laterals. But it's part of the construction, what you're doing. So if you're putting extra parking spots in there as part of that construction, it is.

Right, and we had that discussion and made whatever decisions we made about the design. I wish you had participated then.

Well, I wish I had known about that then. The first I learned about this was before the meeting for the last week, which I did show up to.

Okay, so the... The place you're talking about is on the east side of the street? No. On the west side of the street?

Both. Right now they park on the west side of the street. If the parking is going to be expanded, they will probably end up showing up on the east side of the street. And then you were concerned about some trees, correct? Yes. Trees on the west side of the street? East side of the street where they're going to be removed.

As far as I know, we're not removing any trees on the west side of the street. Not on the west side of the street. The east side.

Yes. They currently park on the west side. By expanding parking on the east side, you're going to invite more car service drivers, and it will also increase noise with the trees being cut down.

But as far as you know, other than possibly littering, they're not doing anything illegal?

Well, I don't know sleeping in your car in Birmingham was illegal, masturbating in your car, essentially having a tailgate party on our front lawn.

Okay, I could see your concern about if someone was masturbating in their car.

Yeah, unfortunately I didn't have my phone so I burst out laughing at him instead and by the time I got back in the house from walking my dog.

How do we handle this? We're in the context of a public hearing regarding sewer and water laterals. Yes.

This particular issue is not related to the water, sewer and laterals issue. It's not part of the public hearing of necessity. I understand from talking to Police Chief Grewy that this concern has been reported before and the police have gone out. Generally speaking, they have never been caught doing anything that shows them breaking a law. So that's what I know to date. I can talk to Chief Grewey and find out if there's any more information. If some of the elements that you're describing are going on, we'd need to catch them.

Do we, again, is it the pleasure of the commission to continue to discuss this? Do we charge for parking? Are there meters there?

No, and that's another thing. A lot of people don't want meters there because our own guests park there and also the people who work at the gas station who generally people in the community like because they're very nice and they're respectful.

They need to park there and they shouldn't have to... You can't put meters there because it's outside of the boundaries of the former parking assessments. We could we could do residential But I understand that they do hear from the residents that they don't mind the gas station folks parking there It's these folks that there's some kind of okay.

Let's take care of let's close Is there anybody else in the room or online who would like to speak to water and sewer laterals on North Old Woodward? seeing none at 834 we're gonna close the public hearing and And I'm looking for a motion.

I think we can direct to the city manager to... Let's dispose of the... Get rid of the motion first.

Let's get rid of this. Who wants to read it? Come on, guys.

So I have a question so I don't have the printed packet and usually we list page numbers for the tables Is there an appropriate way? Okay, so you can just loan me this thing?

Right there

All right. I will make a motion. Whereas notice was given pursuant to section 94-7 of the city code to each owner or party in interest of property and lots to be assessed by first class mail and by publication in a newspaper generally circulated in the city, and whereas the city commission has conducted a public hearing and has determined it is necessary to proceed with a project replacing sewer services, 50 years of age or older or constructed of a material that is not acceptable for city standards and replacing water services that are 60 years or older or less than one inch in diameter on North Old Woodward project from Oak Street to Woodward Avenue and whereas the city has previously established a policy requiring replacement of sewer services 50 years of age or older or constructed of materials that are not acceptable for city standards and water services less than one inch in diameter and the city street is open for repairs and reconstruction and whereas the city commission after the public hearing has determined that the north old woodward project the replacement of sewer services that are 50 years of age or older or of material that is not acceptable to city standards. The replacement of water services that are 60 years or older or less than one inch in diameter is a necessity and is in the best interest of the city and whereas the commission has approved the detailed plans and estimates of cost prepared by the city engineer and Whereas formal bids have been received and the actual cost of sewer service and water service replacement has been determined, and whereas the City Engineer has determined the boundaries of sewer service lateral and water service laterals located within the limits of the following streets shall be installed as part of the North Old Woodward Project, contract number 8-26-W. North Old Woodward Avenue, Oak Street to Woodward Avenue. Whereas the formula used in making the assessment is 100% of the contractor's charge for replacing the lateral service that is 50 years of age or older or constructed of materials that are not acceptable and water service that is 60 years of age or older and less than one inch in diameter within the public right of way between the utility and the property line per end calculated at the rate of $140 per foot of six inch diameter sewer service pipe $212 per foot of 8-inch diameter sewer service pipe horizontal directional drill, $185 per foot of 10-inch diameter sewer service pipe, $8 per foot of 2-inch water service pipe, $140 per foot of 6-inch water service pipe horizontal directional drill, $185 per foot of 6-inch water service pipe, close paren, Therefore, let it be resolved the City Commission has determined that the scope of the public improvements as described is in the best interest of the City and will benefit the properties listed in the assessment role and is a necessity and the City Commission directs the City Manager to prepare a special assessment role and present the same to the City Commission for confirmation and further set a public hearing of confirmation of the role on June 22nd, 2026 and give notice of same. with the streets listed in Table 8B on page 277, 278, 279, 280, and 281 of this meeting's packet, referencing the Sidwell number, street address, estimated sewer SAD costs, and estimated water SAD costs.

Second.

Comments on the motion?

I have to have a comment on the motion. Even though I just read it. Why is it $8 per foot of two-inch water? That number is radically lower than all the other numbers.

That is the low bidder's cost they provided for that item. Great. It's $8. Cool. Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Any other comments in the room, online? Roll call, please.

Mayor Pro Tem Law? Yes. Commissioner Kozlowski?

Yes.

Mayor Balor?

Yes.

Commissioner Host?

Yes.

Commissioner Kolb?

Yes.

Commissioner Haag?

Yes. Another unanimous decision. We move to item C, a resolution supporting the continued operation of the 48th District Court with three judges as attached in exhibit E. And I believe we have a guest presenter. Is there anything the staff wants to say prior to?

No, I believe it was said in the memo and that this has been an ongoing issue since 2011, I think it was. And so they're going to each of the municipalities and trying to get support to keep a third judge on staff.

Right. Thanks for coming.

Good evening. My name is Patrick Dunn, the Court Administrator for the 48th District Court. Good to see you all again. I'm joined this evening by our Chief Judge, Diane D'Agostini, as well as Kimberly Small. This is in relationship, just to give you a little historical perspective, the 48th District Court has always had three... judges since its inception in 2011 there was legislation passed that would reduce us to two judges upon the retirement of one of our judges or if a judge aged out at the time that was primarily it appears driven by caseload and I know you guys are very familiar with caseload We're frequently discussing that because our caseload numbers dictate the amount of money that's advanced to the court as well as how we distribute funds. And the state court administrator's office was looking at the time. and the legislation was looking at the time as to how caseload numbers for courts were going up. Since 2011, there's been a number of legislative initiatives that have really changed the equation, even though our caseload is improving. I know in the packet of information that we gave you, It does show that over the last 10 years, our caseload has gone up about 10,000 cases. We're currently 2025, we're a little over 32,000. So far this year, we're projecting to be over 33,000. But the real change that has come in with some of the legislative initiatives is the amount of time that the judges are spending on old cases or filings within existing cases. That's really what's changed the equation and why we're here before you tonight to try to preserve or reinstate our third judge. I'm just going to highlight, I know the packet gave a great deal of information to you all and I'm sure you've had the opportunity to review it. I just want to highlight how some of those affect the judicial resources that we need and especially with expected the judges time one of those has to do with currently with our three judges they average probably about 150 probationers per judge so if we were going to go down to two judges obviously the 75 would build each one of our existing judges. They'd add 75 new probationers to their to their number of people that they were supervising it with their staff and Two of the legislative initiatives that they've changed is now when someone is put on probation They have the right to have a hearing before the judge halfway through their probation to be to request that they be terminated from probation and It's part, so if it's a one year after six months or if it's a two year probation at one year, they have the right to go before the judge and request that their probation be terminated. And that's part of the new legislative initiative. The other thing that has happened over the last, since the 2011 change, and I know we've discussed it, is the set-asides expungement or set-asides of convictions, how they've expanded that and how that's resulted in us having more contact with old cases than we've ever had before. So those are some of the legislative initiatives. The other thing I know we've talked about last time I've been here for the budget is a lot of the increase in our caseload right now has to do with general civil cases, especially the reforms from the No-Fault Act have really resulted in a sharp rise in our general civil cases, and that's why we provided you in the packet it's not just about the new cases that are being filed but it's the work that's going on with those new cases and that's where you see things like our motions filings have gone you know through the roof as these cases have been filed and how much extra work they put on the judge time wise and resource wise because all these cases carry discovery motions motion for summary dispositions all those things the other things they've added with landlord tenants there's a second hearing So where it used to be one hearing, now they've added a mandatory first hearing that has to do more with an advice of rights for the tenants as to what their rights are and what resources are available to them. So those are all resources that have really added to the judge's time. So as the court administrator, when I've looked at this, I mean part of it, we have to be prepared. whether we're a two-court judge or a three-court judge, how we would do this. And we've really looked at the cost of that. I know I've discussed with you before, I mean, obviously the one cost that we are not talking about today that comes in whenever a new judgeship is being added, we are asking that we preserve our judgeship. The main cost that comes into it is the cost of a new courtroom or an expanded courthouse, which is not something that we're having to deal with. The one cost that we are looking at, though, is over the last few years, we have actually cut down on the amount of time that our magistrates are at the courthouse. we have independent contractors attorney magistrates that come in while the judges are dealing with their regular dockets the magistrates are dealing with arraignments swear twos all those search warrants and along with their small claims and other matters that the magistrates handle we have been able to reduce the dockets that the magistrates are there so that the judges can handle those things because the magistrates are paid out of the local budget And we've looked at it. We had to operate with two judges. We would have to have a magistrate in the courthouse Monday through Friday, both morning and afternoon, which would actually increase the cost that we would have to pay. We are currently operating right now with one staff attorney for three judges. We've also looked at it in order to operate with two judges, we would need to add an additional staff attorney. So when we're looking at sort of the math and how it would work for our local communities, we realized that it would actually cost more for us to go down to a two court judge versus three. Um, and as much I want to emphasize is I know if you have any questions for me or the judges, This is really not more of a cost factor. It's really about the services that we provide to the communities. We are unique in that we serve seven different police agencies as well as the Oakland County Sheriff's Department. and seven different communities that we serve and we've always taken great pride in the service that we provide those communities and we view it that the court was originally created as three court judge for that very reason in order to timely and efficiently serve the communities that that we are in our jurisdiction and we want to continue to do that and when we looked at it it makes sense for us at this time to stay as a three court judge and we're going to the communities asking for them for their support.

Thank you. So I have a couple questions. You are merely asking us to support an amendment to the statute that would preserve three judges, right?

Yeah, there is legislation right now, and part of that is the state court administrator's office, the way the legislation... They do want to make sure that the local communities do support that legislation because of the cost factors that I initiated most state legislators support that legislation they do they are sponsoring it hours do is it likely to pass I Can't it's obviously there's more steps involved here There anyone opposed to it? Not that I'm aware of. We've had great support. There's actually three different bills that are currently up right now regarding this, some with bipartisan support. So there's great initiative for it, but yeah. Yeah, like noise on Woodward.

Is it likely to happen before somebody retires or ages out? How far are we from D-Day here?

Would you like me to take that one? Sure. Good evening, everybody. I am Judge Kimberly Small, and I am the senior on the bench. I have been on the bench for, I'm in my 30th year. So one of the reasons that this is eminent is while I have not made any final decision, at this point in my life and my career, I am considering perhaps a change. So before I do so, I want to make sure that the court is taken care of. And if I may say, obviously, if I leave, I'm not talking about my caseload because I won't have one, but I'm talking about my caseload going to my two colleagues. It would create an untenable situation. Mr. Pat went over all of the increases, the legislative changes, the civil dockets for us, these insurance cases. are just huge on our civil dockets. They've increased, let me get statistics, 58% from last year. Yes, 58%. These aren't simple civil cases. These aren't traffic tickets or a default on a credit card loan. These are cases that take a tremendous amount of prep time Tremendous amount of time in court like tonight. I've got three to four hours ahead of me. I have a civil docket tomorrow They're not the way our civil dockets used to be and many of these cases In fact, the majority of them for whatever reason are being filed in the 48th District Court if age if this goes down to two judges, it will be an untenable situation as you folks know, I the judge's salary is paid by the state it's not the locals it's a pass-through item on the budget so it is not the locals it's paid by the state if a judge leaves as pat indicated we are going to need at least a full-time magistrate to be there monday through friday our search warrants have increased and i can go on and on and on you have all the information in front of you it will cost the locals a bit more and I know you have that document as well which shows you exactly our best guess very educated and very well thought out what it will cost the locals if this court goes down to two judges so that was a long way of saying I'm not sure what my immediate future plans are but this juror these jurisdictions won't be served well with two judges both financially and And just in terms of the wait times for search warrants, for anything that happens, your attorneys, it's going to be very difficult. And the people won't be served well. And it's not because the judges won't be working really, really hard. We do, and they will if I leave or whomever. It's just simply there's only so many hours in a day.

Okay, thank you. We can, if anybody has questions, we can ask questions, or we can get a motion on the table and move things along. My preference, always get the motion out and then discuss it, but pleasure of the commission. Commissioner Hosh.

I do have one question, and that is, Jana, you wrote us this morning, I believe the letter stated June 8th this morning, I don't have the background other than in that email you sent this morning. I expected that at my seat tonight we would have what these people have been talking about.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in the email this morning. Do you mean how the agenda was amended on Friday?

Yeah, right, as well as the, okay, was it from Friday?

It was from Friday, yes, and as I said, I already apologized to Mr. Dunn because he sent me the legislation that said, oh, there's going to be three judges, so I thought the issue was resolved. So when I talked to him on, I think it was Friday, He said, no, no, it's not a done deal. We still need the resolution. That's why it was added on Friday. But he and I had talked about adding it before.

Yeah, no, but my real question is why isn't it as part of our packet tonight?

It is. It is. It's item number 8C.

No, I meant the background. It's there.

Yeah, it's all there. It's under the court resolution. It's under the same issue. I didn't get a notification of this, and I apologize to Mr. Dunn. I gave you one ear because I was reading it while you were talking because I didn't realize it was an amendment either to add this.

Oh, on Friday it wasn't clear in that email that it was an amendment?

I didn't get one.

Okay, there was one sent out. Yes, to the City Commission. I got it.

I didn't. By the way, my question isn't about the amendment. It's about the background that went with the amendment. I expected to get a little packet that had Mr. Dunn and your comments.

Yeah, that was all.

Maybe this is a clerk question.

It's in the portal. So it was added to the portal. I use the portal. I don't know if you guys use it.

The email that I sent out Friday, I also pulled out that thing and made an attachment.

Yeah, and I got it. I got an email you sent me.

Yep.

Okay, but anyway irrelevant anyway I'd like to move the suggested action and make a motion adopting a resolution supporting the continued operation of the 48 district court with three judges as attached in appendix II second That was photo finish I

Cole was definitely louder.

Well, I tend to be quiet, but you know.

There's something about watch out for the quiet. Commissioner Host, comments on the motion?

I'm going to support it because we're part of the 48th District Court as of now.

Commissioner Hague. Yeah, my comment, I'd like to have three of you because I would like to send you a lot more business from Woodward. I think you heard some of that earlier and you definitely got the gist of there's a lot of angry people. So yeah, I'd be more than happy to get you guys overworked at three judges. Good luck.

Mr. Dunn, I just wanted to thank you for the detail in the document you provided. It was excellent. Very helpful. So thank you. The judges worked very hard on it.

Thank you. We appreciate it. We need a roll call on this one?

No, I don't think so.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Another unanimous decision. I can't believe it. We're so divided. There's so much. It's such a terrible thing. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Very grateful. Thank you. We move to item D. And I see that... Mr. Dupuy is queued up to discuss a resolution to approve an agreement with ASI signage innovations for wayfinding, fabrication, and installation in an amount not to exceed $225,702.

Thank you, Mayor Ballard. Nick Dupuy, Planning Director for the City of Birmingham. Yes, this is a request to sign on in with the contractor for Phase 2, but I didn't figure I could get away with talking about Phase 2 without talking about Phase 1, especially when I... Remind y'all that you approve phase one almost literally two years ago With the same contractor ASI I thought I'd at least restate a little bit about that and why it's taken so long I would say half of it. We just had a lot of trouble getting that permit. They're very unique designs They're artistic. They're not foxy. They took a while to get the aluminum to fold right. It took a while to figure out how to get a breakaway in something like the kiosk sign. All that being said, we're expecting installation in June. So even at the two-year mark, I'm excited to get that phase one. That was four signs. Now in phase two, we're looking at 14 signs. We happen to get the big ones out of the way in phase one. We're also gonna get the medium ones out of the way on phase two. This is kind of a breakdown of what we are getting in theory with the phase two contractor selection. Four more kiosk signs, some medium identification signs, and some directional signs. You'll have to forgive the map. It is busy. I did print it for you if you wanted to look closer. But everything in red is phase two signage. Blue is phase one signage. So you can see it starting to spread out from the core. And in this next image, you can see how far it really goes. So the medium directional signages on the east and west side on Maple are in phase two, for example, as well as another directional sign. So with that, we did, of course, go to the wayfinding committee with this. They all scored it, all of us scored it, and ASI rose to the top. And what we're recommending today is exactly as proposed, an agreement not to exceed 225702 from the $260,000 budget that we had planned for this fiscal year, so. That's it for now, I'm happy to answer questions. Could you go back please?

Go back one more. So those two. Just tell us, where are the two, the one on the left?

The ground-mounted identification signs, both of them are on Woodward. They'd be replacing the ones that are already there. If you can imagine those Welcome to Birmingham. Where's the one on the north side? I know where the one is. It's technically in the garbage right now.

It got hit.

Okay, so it's by the mobile station. Correct. Oh, I'm sorry.

No, it's further.

It's closer to gas out at Court and on Woodward. In the middle? In the middle.

Okay, and you'll be adding two more just like that, right?

Smaller. They're medium, not large. So those ones are going to be more on the six foot tall. These are 12 feet tall.

12 feet tall? To the tallest spire. And where are the two others that are similar but smaller? They'd be at Coolidge and Maple. Okay, where at Coolidge and Maple?

Let's see if I can figure.

The north side, just.

The northwest side there.

Yeah, west of Coolidge, where there's an existing Welcome to Birmingham.

Oh, there is? Okay. Same thing with the east side.

Okay. And then where's the other one, Maple and Cranbrook? Yep. Yes.

Okay. That one's a little more easterly than to the Coolidge one. And the two original kiosks?

Where are they one will be right outside here at City Hall and one front of City Hall?

I'm more on the side at the corner of Pierce and Martin, okay Everybody cool on that. You're smart Okay, the second one is going to be at main and main northeast corners in front of the cb2 area that big expansive concrete Old woodward and right, okay Okay, and they will have what sort of wayfinding on the kiosks. I there's a panel and it's going to have a you are here indicating you know where you are it'll have a five minute or half excuse me quarter mile walk radius showing that kind of what you can get to in five minutes it'll have all the parking facilities that you can get to love City Hall the museum booth Park Shane Park we'll call them point points of interest there's ten okay There's also QR codes that lead to the shopping district website, the revamped one, a shop and dine QR code. So one for shop, one for dine, if you are looking for something more like that.

we will track how many times people use that QR code. Is that a thing?

It's definitely a thing.

Okay. Yep. Okay. And those, that whole thing can be edited, changed, swapped out, not a big deal, right? Okay.

With relative ease for sure. So now go to the new ones.

And are these going to take two years to get?

These are not going to take two years. I will say that publicly and firmly. They've got their practice. The kiosk signs are in their wheelhouse now, so there's no finicking with that.

We already talked about the two smaller Welcome to Birmingham signs. Four more kiosks. Where are those four more kiosks going to go?

So we're going to have one at the southwest corner of Old Water to Maple to kind of kitty corner from the... Southwest. The first one? That would be... In front of Flory and Rag and Bone, that area. Okay. We're going to have one over on Willits and Bates. Excuse me. Yeah, Bates there, here on 10. Willits and... I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Will it send baits by the parking lot? That is by S3, shift, sidecar, slice, and McCann there. In that big paved area? It's showing at the southwest corner. So it's more closer, more closely.

Southwest corner is a weird corner.

It's a TV.

The back of his old building. Yeah. Right across the church. Wouldn't it be better diametrically opposite right by the parking lot? Is that what you would think? Either by the parking lot or by sidecar and slice. I put it by the parking lot. But not. Yeah, people park, come out of the park, come out of the deck, come out of...

don't get it the good news here is just as we did for phase one this is just the suggested map that Corbin gave us as a rollout so we'll be visiting these sites and we'll be selecting based on I think exactly the things you're saying we'll visit where they suggest and then we'll go over alternatives it'll be at that intersection though

It could be spatial concerns too because if you can recall on the north side there it's

Sidewalk and almost nothing else. So these kiosk signs are considerable. So they need something that they need some space to congregate Yeah, I haven't been over there really on that corner since so for space reasons too So they at the time that they drew this in 2023 it could have been we didn't even have the bullets So these are technically you who's gonna make the final decision about where that one goes or any of them? It's usually myself and Marianne and someone from management, the staff liaisons to the Wayfinding Committee. Oh, excuse me, and Erica Bassett. So we kind of make it just kind of an informal.

Let's talk about the other two locations for kiosks. We'll have one at Shane Park. Which, where?

On the west side, the northwest side here.

Northwest by the library and Shane Park.

Closer to the library, yep. And then we'll have one over by the Chester Street parking garage. Here.

Do you want to put it north-west or do you want to put it by the library entrance? Straight line coming out. Or are you closer to the towns?

Well, they're all going to be printed with a UR here, right? Yes.

You better make those decisions pretty quickly, right? We don't have to make them as quick. Luckily, the fabrication of the kiosk signs themselves takes a good amount of time, which gives us that same time. They can send those maps to the printer. They're just vinyl on acrylic.

So has the committee looked at these kiosk locations carefully and discussed them in the same manner that we are discussing them critically?

Not for Phase 2 yet, but I'm happy to take that as an agenda item, because we've got some time.

Please do. Three of us. We're not a split committee. We're getting unanimity.

It's not a problem at all.

Okay, yeah, let's look at those locations carefully. Okay, what are the other signs on Phase 2?

So the medium identification signs that we talked about.

Go back, go back. Oh, there you go. So then the three, five times and the three times.

Yeah, so those are just directional signage. So you've got at some of the key entrances like Maple and Big Woodward. You'll have one on Oak. You'll have one up on North Old Woodward.

Maple and Big Woodward, so you see it as you're trying to decide which lane to take when you're crossing Woodward and Maple? The northwest corner.

The bit that's going to get developed because it's a gravel parking lot.

Again, critical discussion. There's a lot going on there. You got people jockeying to decide whether they're going straight and they need to be in the right lane to be in the center lane or they need to be in the center lane to be in the left lane. Anyway, whatever.

What's the next one? I mentioned up here at Oakland and North Old Woodward here as you kind of come in from the east. Okay.

So that would be on the southbound, southbound, people coming into town, beyond the west, southwest corner, okay?

So we'll have one over on the west side as you come into town from the west. So we'll have two over there, one coming from Southfield Road and one on Maple. Okay. I didn't mention the one here on South Old Woodward here as you come into town from the south. Okay. What did I miss? There's one just outside of downtown on Maple as you kind of hit the curve at Martha Baldwin. And then there's actually one all the way down by the Art Council building. By the golf course. All the way on 14 and Glenbrook. Really? Yep. Part of the emphasis was it to be citywide, not just a downtown wayfinding plan. That's really... It's pretty remote.

That's being generous. What are you gonna direct people to on that one? See you on my school?

The library downtown.

There's the Lincoln Wells site over there. Okay, please run that by the wayfinding committee.

Go north a mile, turn right, drive a mile, then you're going to be in downtown. Is that all it's going to say? Because that's what it tells you right there.

I just would like to know that the wayfinding committee has given those things also a critical eye. Consider it done. Thank you. As long as you guys agree. What else do you have?

I think that was it. And is there a phase three? Certainly. There's a three and four for this kind of core wayfinding plan. I'd like to note that that does not include the parking wayfinding. He's working on that separately. But yes, there will be... Was that included in the report?

No. Phase three and four, no. Can you give us a quick overview and then other people can...

question yep so we by the time we get to phase three we'll have knocked out all the big signs including half of the kiosk signs um almost half phase three has 27 signs but note they start to get smaller the poll based small directional type poll based signs And then phase four, we have the last 17. And each of those phases, the only substantial ones, air quotes, are the kiosk signs, in which there's four each, so we can expect eight more kiosk signs. The rest will be pole-mounted. We also will venture onto Woodward, and I believe phase four, to build those headers to help wayfinding along Woodward. Okay.

At any point, do we do the park signs?

As I understand it, that process is also being undertaken by the Parks Department to get their own wayfinding plan, similar to the way that Mr. Ford did his parking wayfinding plan. So each side.

Yeah, the parks department, they look at the signs for all of the parks and they upgraded them. I'm going to say maybe 10 years ago now. And oh yeah, Therese, you would know. And then when we changed the logo, the parks department came through the wayfinding committee and updated the signs on all the parks to at least bring them more current with the logo. And I believe that's something that they're looking into now is updating it yet again.

but they would conform to this design?

Well, I don't think that has been determined yet. I think we would definitely want it to at least be consistent or compatible in some way.

I would.

He doesn't. The park signs also serve a different purpose because they list hours of operations and park rules. And if you think of the one on Adams Park, it's square, it's got the name, it's blue and green. and it tells you, it's more informational about what you can and cannot do when it's open. It's about using that facility.

I'm strictly talking about design.

Well, I do know they updated the previously put up signs to match our color palette and our design guide and our logo to update it there. So they'll be looking on a continual basis.

Right, and before that they were all different.

They were like rocks and wood. I get that. I'm not fond of what we have now. I think we have a wayfinding and branding committee and that any signs should go through.

They do go through the committee.

Assure me that anything the parks people do is going to go through wayfinding and branding.

Yes, it will.

Thank you. He was first.

I'd like to make a motion. To approve an agreement with ASI Signage Innovations for wayfinding, fabrication, and installation in the amount not to exceed $225,702.00. from account 101.0-701.000-981.0100. In addition, to authorize the mayor and the city clerk to sign the agreement on behalf of the city.

Second. I have a question, probably more for you. This was triggered by Aaron's report in today's packet. Church Street is eight months delayed based on what I read in here. We're delayed on Wimbledon. Should we, in your opinion, in a contract like this, put a you are done by this date or it's a penalty of $5,000 a day or whatever the number is? holding these these contractors responsible for time it's I mean it's it's the administration's time to manage it as it drags out its residents money it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing for the city and I just I just with those two with like wimbledon popleton and just aaron's report and just like is it is it a is there a systemic issue in these delays or do we just get even more aggressive in our contracting yeah

There is do you have the page number?

Yeah, I can tell you that we have an end date. We put July 30 2027 consequences consequences.

If he doesn't get to the end, that's what's not in there.

So the consequences though are found in paragraph 20, which is the failure to perform its obligations, which are here under and then includes the Time frame that was just cited. So we have all They're agreeing that we have all the remedial actions provided and permitted by law so that's that's the Which are what?

We can sue them I guess or maybe not payments of even this money That's a big enough penalty But we got to be willing to do it Commissioner hate

Yeah, I'll do the easy one first so just quickly the structure of the the six-foot ones with the spires they box section and are they kind of structural because More I looked at it and especially the ones by the bus stop the more I was trying to figure out how fast and how easily it's gonna get vandalized Because it's kind of a tempting target I could visualize someone deciding to hang off the spire and just spin around it because it seems like fun. You're going to miss a lot about yourself tonight. No, I just... Dream cruise. They'll be dancing on them. I can visualize things that go wrong. So I was just kind of curious. So not to be answered right now, but we need to think about that one. The second one, actually, he brought up something I wanted to bring up as a general, and that is... management of projects so you talked about a date we've actually made contractors come in on projects that are being run around the city and show us their timelines we don't do that for ourselves I want to see milestones Actual milestones, not we're finished on such and such a date. What are your gates? A project management plan has gates. Gates have reviews, they have past, no past, consequences, corrective action, etc. We don't do that. And that's why we keep on having all the problems we have, because we do not manage projects. So he touched it. I want to bring it up later. But this would be a good one to say, okay, what are the thresholds? Because when I hear you say it takes a long time to print these things, oh, they're fairly easy. They print over acrylic. You can print over acrylic overnight. Seriously, it's not that hard. Once you've got the schematics, it's actually easy. So this is where I was sort of wondering about some of these lags and delays because where do they come from? They're not real. I don't accept them at work. Someone gives me that, it's unacceptable answer. Go away and come back with a better one. So why are we doing the same thing? I don't get it. Is it something that municipalities do?

Well, there's that, but there's also we're relying on, when we put together the request for proposals, we are looking at a lot of different issues and moving parts. One is the organization. who's going to respond to it, how fast are they going to move, and I think that that's a lot that goes into the timeframe that's provided.

For instance, MDOT, we have no control over them whatsoever.

Let's not thrash it out in this particular motion. I do want to talk about this as a separate. He touched on it. It was my segue into asking the question. It doesn't belong in this motion, but it is something we must address as...

leadership but I think it's reasonable to consider that or to ask about it I mean if you do an RFP and you say give us your timeline and they give you a timeline and it's not influenced by something like it's not subject to something like him that you put in it you put in an estimate and state yeah with base they set the expectation all we're doing is holding them to it I You already spoke. You get to talk.

So I am aware that I am very late to this party, somewhere between two and three years late. But I've got to admit that I have some reservations about the design aesthetics of the signs. I remember they were brought before the Advisory Parking Committee when I was on there. several years ago and I remember feeling like I had some reservations at that time and actually another member of the committee also suggested that they had reservations as well and we asked Aaron and he correctly stated that the designs had been approved and so there wasn't really room to maneuver there. so I am just very skeptical that this is what we want for the signs that are welcoming people to our city I understand that some of them are already being fabricated and I think it is you know kind of a tragedy that they're not up I went back and I watched the meeting from three years ago when these designs were first proposed. And it was brought up at that time that there was not a lot of public input on the design. And at this point, I think relatively few members of the general public have seen these things. And we are now contemplating spending a lot more money and ramping up a lot more production of these signs, which I think there's a distinct possibility that many people in the city will not like. So I do not plan on supporting the motion because I have concerns here and I wish there was some, I don't know that there's an easy way forward here, but I have reservations about these being the right designs for the branding for our city.

Okay. I'm not going to ask you to be more specific.

Thank you. I mean, I understand a lot of time and energy went in, and I don't want to make light of that. So I have deep appreciation for everything that's been done on this plan so far.

And arguably, it is a decision that has been made that you are duty-bound to support, even if you don't agree with it.

I mean, if there's no vote, then we wouldn't have a vote, right?

No deity bound. Any other? We could take an opinion on that.

A comment on Commissioner Kolb and Commissioner Haag's remarks. I'm going to address those in commission discussion on items from a prior meeting.

Any comment from the public? Anybody online? If you're online, use the raise your hand function. Okay. I guess we're going to take a roll call vote.

Mayor Pro Tem Long? Yes. Mayor Ballard?

Yes.

Commissioner Haag?

Yes.

Commissioner Kozlowski?

No.

Commissioner Host?

Yes.

Commissioner Cole?

Yes. Almost. Sorry. I ruined your streak.

Now to a motion to adopt an ordinance to amend part two of the city code. This is about single family residential stormwater management standards. This is to assist in reducing the burden of unmanaged stormwater runoff in the city of Birmingham.

Good evening.

Hello.

Hello. My name is Summer Aldred Ahrens. I'm a city planner here in the City of Birmingham and it's only my second time in front of you all, so it's great to be here. So tonight I'm bringing forward one of the first major implementations from the Birmingham Green Healthy Climate Plan, which was approved in September of 2024. And before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge that there's been a lot of questions about this. We want to make sure that we do this correctly. And so we're happy tonight to have a discussion about all these items and kick off this conversation. And I understand if the commission is not comfortable moving forward with approval at this time, but we feel like it's very important to kick this conversation off. So with that being said, the Birmingham Green Healthy Climate Plan was developed with extensive community engagement and public input. And throughout that process, there was one topic that came up over and over and over again for us, which was stormwater management. We heard, again, residents concerning about flooding, the impacts of flooding, increasing impervious surface with increased lot sizes of homes, water quality, and the long-term impacts of redevelopment and how the stormwater is managed by the community. So we heard that loud and clear. And in response, the Healthy Climate Plan established a community goal in our water section of infiltrating or retaining an additional 500,000 gallons of stormwater per rain event That's not all year, not all month per rain event, 500,000 gallons. That would be by 2035. A key part of that goal is straddling public and private property as well as residential and commercial. Currently, there's no single family residential stormwater management standards. It's not uncommon. Many communities do not have that yet. But it's an emerging management technique that's coming up across the Midwest, Michigan, and the rest of the country. The Environmental Sustainability Committee identified this as a key item of attention that they wanted to be explored in the first one to two years of the Healthy Climate Plan being in action, which is why we're here today. So we began exploring this back in August of 2025. We have evaluated best practices from Michigan and the Midwest and reviewed our own development patterns and worked to have an approach that balances the environmental stewardship aspects with the realities of development in the City of Birmingham and redevelopment. Currently, single-family residential land is approximately about 50% of our land mass. It's 2.4 acres of our city's 4.8, whereas commercial properties account for about 6.25%, so a much smaller amount. And we have stormwater standards for our commercial properties that were recently adopted, Oakland County stormwater commercial management standards. So because of these, it's great that we have that. It's a great step, but you can see how with 50% of our landmass being something else with not a specific management technique, how it's important for us in order to reach our goal for us to consider single family stormwater management as well. So the proposed ordinance in this section is primarily to protect the health, safety and welfare of our residents through managing stormwater runoff. And we have proposed through research and understanding industry standard that Through this, the management of stormwater should be retention of the first one inch of rainfall defined over an impervious surface area, as that is determined to be the most pollutant heavy portion of stormwater runoff during any one state stormwater event. So that is in alignment with our own Oakland County stormwater standards, along with stormwater standards from other counties in the state of Michigan. So throughout the section of our ordinance, we discussed specifically the differences between complete teardowns and rebuilds and split into two buckets between teardowns and rebuilds. So complete demolition of homes and rebuilding or new lot redevelopment and then the additions of an replacement of impervious surface and treating them somewhat differently. Projects under 100 square feet as proposed would be exempt from this in order to, one, minimize the burden on residents somewhat, and also it would be a lot of reviews for our staff if every single project was counted. So for specifically, just to dive into the ordinance a little bit, and then I'm happy to take questions, and Nick and Melissa are also here to discuss. The ordinance proposes that for complete teardowns and rebuilds that the applicant shall design and install stormwater management techniques that would go up to the maximum loss coverage permitted for that site. So if someone's tearing down a home, they would be required to be held to the max lot coverage. Even if they don't, maybe they have a five square feet wiggle room or 10 square feet. We see a lot of max lot coverage homes when we do redevelopment. It would not require them to have to come back to us again. If they redid it once and they maxed out their lot, they wouldn't have to come back if they changed something else on their lot. So somewhat ease. For additions and... For replacements, we would require them to just do their replacement and addition of impervious service on the lot. We would not trigger the maximum lot requirement for a small project, say like 200 square feet. With this, we've recommended that for 500 square foot projects, for under 500 square foot projects, we'd recommend natural measures, natural measures only. And I've included some language, there's language in the ordinance about what constitutes a natural measure or a constructed measure, and I'll read those in a second. Or if it's over 500 square feet, which is usually when certain permits get triggered and reviews get triggered, 40% would be natural and 60% constructed would be permitted. Natural measures would include methods that rely on vegetation, soils, and natural hydrologic processes that retain or infiltrate runoff at the source. They can include rain gardens, vegetated swales, tree planting, et cetera. So when you think about natural measures, think about plants. For constructed measures, that means engineered systems that would be from manmade materials, including trenches, dry wells, cisterns, that sort of thing. So, slapping it out into two buckets. As we move forward, we understand that, of course, there's some more implementation language throughout the ordinance. We recognize that stormwater is a very complex issue. Our environmental goals, our development goals as a community, property owner expectations and cost, and development patterns, we wanna make sure that we are considering all of those things when we're implementing something like this. And the Healthy Climate Plan identified this as a major item of high priority. and our residents very much are looking. When they communicated to us, they're very much looking for us to do something about our stormwater in our city. This is one of the ways that we are proposing to help mitigate some of the issues that we've seen arise. Happy to take any comments or questions and have a good discussion about this.

Very good report.

Thank you.

Commissioner Hayes. This was really interesting to read. I just want to throw an example at you to see if I've understood it. Yes, it's complicated. So just looking at just the simple formula that you showed here, square footage times 0.08 equals cubic feet volume. If I pull up R1A, just because it was the first one that came up in zoning, minimum lot area 20,000 square feet per unit, maximum lot coverage 30%. So if I take 30% of 20,000 square feet, maximum lot coverage would be 6,000 square feet. Would that be the 6,000 square feet I put into that formula, multiplied by .08?

So you go back on the previous side of the page, and it would be the area, it depends on the project.

So you would do... I'm going for the max, let's just say somebody says, whatever I'm doing, it goes up to the maximum. You mentioned the maximums. the maximum would be allowed a 30 maximum lot coverage can be effectively covered by potentially impervious surface so therefore that would be 6 000 square i'm trying to make this a super simple super super simple so 6 000 square feet times 0.08 equals yes equals the required cubic 480 cubic feet yes

You take your maximum lot size, multiply it by 0.6 because that's the required open space requirement. You get your maximum permitted impervious area. You take that number, multiply it by 0.08, and that's your required volume.

I have a quick question. I thought the 30% number for the lot coverage was the structure. Correct. If you have a driveway, that's impervious surface, but that doesn't go into the 30%. You can get way over 30% coverage of impermeable surface, right?

Correct. We also have a 40% open space requirement. The point six is coming from the 40% open space requirement. You're making this even juicier. Thank you. Yes.

Because that's where I'm going. Well, no, that's where I'm going with it. So let's just say it's 60% coverage. So instead of being 6,000 square feet, that would actually be 12,000 square feet. So that would give me 960 cubic feet of required retention following this square footage times 0.08. 960 cubic feet, which is... Just under 10 by 10 by 10. Basically, at that point, you're burying four Chevy Suburbans under the backyard as far as the tank volume required, because a Chevy Suburban is close to 200 cubic feet in volume.

No, no, I just did 10 times 10 times 10, and it's 1,000. Yeah.

Right.

But that 10 feet, it doesn't seem like you could fit three Chevy Suburbans in a cube, 10 by 10 by 10. 10 feet? 10 feet's a lot taller than a Suburban. Yeah. Yeah, maybe two.

Yeah. Whatever. But the point being, this is an extremely large tank.

That's to hold 100%, but she's only saying structurally, is that what you referred to it? Structurally, 60%. Correct. So now you only need something that holds 600 gallons. The rest you can handle by natural. Gallons, cubic feet. Whatever. You've got to be careful because people think of gallons. The rest, but you only need... All right, so you need 600 cubic feet, which is smaller. We could do the math on that and then you need a natural measure.

Would you like me to provide an example? Would that be helpful? We did in the process of doing this, we knew that this would get really nitty-gritty because it's complicated for us to discuss as well. We looked at a home that was constructed in 2025. We have an as-built survey. Just a little bit of context, when you build a new home or you do construction, you can't push additional water off onto your neighbors. So there's a grading, it has to be 1% or less, and it has to be contained to your property. It is frequent and common in Birmingham, because of that, that there'll be an enclosed sewer system added already as part of normal construction to the backyard of a home, and it's connected round front to the city system. That's a common occurrence. with this in order to meet grade requirements with the engineering department period to get your building approved. We ran the numbers on one lot specifically. We considered this to be one of the worst case scenarios where the lot would be going from, in this situation, from a lot that was very pervious, lots of green open space, small home, to if we maxed it out and took this lot and maxed it out.

What size lot?

I think it was around, it wasn't an R1 lot, it was an R2 lot, I believe, and I believe it was 10,000 square feet. Like 55 what? Whatever. I don't remember the exact dimensions. I have the asphalt that I can bring next time if possible. The sewer, the line that was enclosed as was already included as enclosed sewer system by just increasing the pipe diameter, the existing pipe that was installed is six inches, by just increasing that pipe diameter nominally two inches, and adding a restrictor where it connected from the private property to the city line, it already met the requirement for the 60% retention. So I guess what I'm trying to illustrate here is that for the homeowner themselves, a lot of these properties do have some sort of sewer line or water, retention on site and it's not uncommon for new homes to be required to have these we're simply asking for a slightly larger pipe as an example to mitigate the flow i'm confused you're talking about pipes pipes carry water correct retention is a tank Retention can come in a lot of different forms. The restrictor, correct. The restrictor would be what would... It would retain water back in the pipes. During a storm event, pipes can serve as a form of detention, which a lot of homeowners already have on their property. The restrictor would make sure that the amount of flow going out into the sewer system or the water system is not at a rate that exceeds the permitted amount so that the water would essentially back up into this is not these are not I want to clarify these are not pipes connected to your toilet or your shower or your basement these are pipes that would be connected possibly to a swale in the backyard that has a grate that water is already collecting in as it runs down your property to avoid going into your neighbors as an example.

So this first inch of water that you want us to retain or contain or detain or whatever you call it Are they allowed to eventually let that water out? Or is it supposed to stay on the premises and be soaked in? Or no, it could be absorbed later on.

Yeah, it depends on the measure used.

A rain garden doesn't emit, does it?

A rain garden does slowly infiltrate water into the water supply. A properly constructed rain garden has an overflow mechanism, yes, but it's usually directed down into something specific. The goal is to infiltrate the water at a rate that the earth and our system can handle. That's something that I think is very important to note that water is consistently moving through our cycles and our systems. We're not asking for homeowners, we would not be asking for homeowners to keep that on their property Forever. All water eventually moves through the system. It's just the rate at which that water flows that's most critical.

We're trying to slow it down, not stop it from going into it. Correct.

You're slowing down that initial surge is what she's trying to say. So it doesn't just all pump in at once and then it just fills up and backs up. Correct. That's the same reason why we've got the plates over some of the drains. Correct. Just slowing things down. Yeah.

So my question to you is, with this ordinance change, HB 5529 through 5532 is moving through committee pretty fast. And it looks right now like it's going to get the vote to pass, which would change our authority to do things. Does this, would this directly get impacted? And is there another route to take given how it's moving?

I'm going to ask Nick to answer this question.

Nick Dupuy, Planning Director. Are those the housing bills? Yeah. So from my recollection, the housing bills will regulate lot size and what you can build on lots. But I don't think it would restrict what we're trying to do with this particular ordinance. It just so happens that in the extreme, some of those... Examples in those bills are pretty extreme. They're saying lots So we'd be I mean it almost be comical the numbers we're talking about and how small they'd be based on a lot that size but I Don't think it would stop or slow down or modify what we're doing with this particular ordinance.

Does everybody know what he's talking about? Could you give us a quick summary what okay what I

The summary that I'm able to give, I'm going to be paraphrasing a lot, so check into it. Perhaps we'll send you something after the meeting. But I called them housing bills. They are what many people view as preemption laws that will preempt local government from regulating its own, I'll call housing development standards. There's an attempt to increase housing supply.

They have been fully implemented in Texas and created in two years 34,000 new homes. So it incensed developers, but takes away municipalities authority on zoning.

Density maybe.

Density zoning flexibility. As we can't be more restrictive than the state. So if there's a minimum lot size of the state, We can't be three times.

And right now the suggested maximum required lot size is 1,500 square feet. So you tear down my house and build four houses on it? Yes. Or more. Knowing your lot, yeah.

It'd be about eight.

There's a lot that... MML is involved in trying to shut it down. A lot of people are trying to shut it down, but it's one of the few things that's got some bipartisan support. Realtors with deep pockets, right? On one side.

Hello, Matt. It's shrinking anyway.

Commissioner So first off thank you for putting all this together. I think this is a really important topic and I'm really glad we're going over it So so one of the things that I was a little bit confused about and I apologize if you kind of elucidate this already I feel like there's some language in here that suggests that that only additions and incremental impervious surface will trigger some of these mitigation requirements, but then the word replacement comes up a few times. I feel like the most obvious case is somebody says, oh, I need to repave my driveway. It's going to be exactly the same size as before, but it's 1,000 square feet of impervious surface. Will this require them to do some kind of mitigation stuff?

As it's written, yes. Under the applicability section of the ordinance, that's where in section item B, it's add or replace impervious surface for areas exceeding 100 square feet per project. That is the applicability. It would trigger this requirement, yes. Where you're looking below in the performance standards is perhaps where it's getting a little bit confusing and we can look at this. It's where it talks about increasing impervious surface area. The intention of this section was to discuss about the maximum lot coverage and the triggered requirements from that. The additions and expansion section was to illustrate that they would not be required to by putting in a 200-square-foot patio, you would not be required to then add stormwater measurements for your entire lot?

Yes, no, I just, under, in the table we have, there's the category, applicability, and requirement. And under category, there's new builds, and there's additions slash incremental impervious surface. But that also includes... replacements. And then similarly in the next thing, we have a section titled additions and expansions, but it actually, it also includes replacements, right? Correct. So, and I appreciate your example earlier. Do you have some sense of what it would look like if somebody did replace their driveway because I feel like this is, I spoke to somebody once campaigning who replaced their driveway and just because of like the size of the roller, they had to increase the width of the driveway and it triggered some impervious surface thing and it turned into a big headache for them. Now, this is really important, so I think we should do something, but I don't think we wanna be driving everybody crazy where every time somebody needs to redo their driveway, they feel like they've gotta dig a hole and install a cistern. So like, what kind of mitigation?

Yeah, well, and... So do you have some sense, if I've got a thousand square feet of driveway that I need to redo,

what is that in in practical terms how might i achieve what what this is going to require of me that's a great question um there's many different ways to go about it and we actually crunched this exact number today when we were thinking about it because this is one of the most common projects that we see come through i think the average driveway replacement size that we see is between a thousand and twelve hundred square feet Looking at our metrics, again, there are many ways to do it. I want to start off by saying we completely agree that we don't want to add unnecessary cost or burden to the homeowner by trading something like a servant, for example. We wouldn't want the homeowner necessarily to, just because they're replacing their driveway, have to add $3,000 to $4,000 in cost to their replacement because now they have to go get a survey. They may have to get one anyway, but we don't necessarily want this to be the sole reason why that may happen. That's not the intention. So the easy answer for something like this, easiest answer that I could come up with, is it's possible for them to use constructed measures and natural measures for this project because it exceeds 500 square feet. If they were to plant two small one and a half caliber trees, that would almost every time satisfy their natural measure requirement. um for the storm water as an example so if they wanted to put in a beautiful eastern redbud tree in their front yard or backyard that would be an acceptable answer um it's also possible then that they add in a certain a certain french drain system that may they may want to add in anyway for runoff um when they're doing their driveway and meet their constructed measure so it to without being super prescriptive because we don't have the specific project in front of us, there would be several ways that they would be able to reach that amount that may not exceed and ask them to dig a well in their backyard and add a $10,000 project cost. That would not be the intention. If they choose to do that, they're welcome to. But that may be an example. There is ways for them to do that, a driveway. They may be able to put in a large rain garden that may be roughly, we looked at the math, it was a 200 square foot rain garden. That's large. And plant a tree would almost satisfy the entire requirement.

The entire requirement or the entire natural component? Yeah. The entire requirement.

There are ways in which, there are many ways we are trying to permit homeowners in order to reach their goals in order to be as well encompassed as possible or as flexible as possible. We also have included an other section in our mix and match worksheet or et cetera, so that if they have their own idea of how they mitigate and they want to talk to us about it, we'd be flexible and accommodating for that as well. So we don't wanna be too,

Strand and do we I noticed I was going through some of the old meetings minutes and it seemed like somebody brought up the idea Of like well, should we take into account how much impervious surface? this this property has to begin with right because I can imagine situations where You've got home a and home B and home a is an older home not a lot of impervious surface coverage but in need of various maintenance projects and Home B just got built three years ago and isn't going to need a driveway replacement for half a century. Now Home A is going to get hit with all of these requirements for stormwater retention despite the fact that really they're generating a lot less runoff to begin with. I was curious, was there a reason that we decided not to incorporate that? I guess that's my main question.

To the best of my understanding, I believe the decision was made along the way that we are trying to keep this as standard and as simple as possible for both the homeowner and for staff upon review. And by creating one standard for additions or replacement and then making new homes its own separate standard, it was the Most simple way that we could get across the idea and have a standard that we felt would be, it's already complicated, most easily understood. Once we got into the weeds of looking at square footage, how much was already there, when would it be triggered, it got very subjective. And the math was starting to get a little complicated. So we decided to create a line as a standard, which we've seen in other communities like Ann Arbor. They've created, they just have a line of what's projects being done. And if it's over the line, you have to do it. If it's under the line, you don't have to. And that seemed to be a slightly more reasonable fit at the time rather than trying to make it tailored and personalized to each specific property, which would be very complicated.

Yes.

You can add something.

May I also add, Mayor? Yes. Mr. Kozlowski, I think I want to speak a little more plainly too in this utopia scenario. We would love it if every residential property infiltrated or detained the first inch of stormwater, period. That's sort of what this ordinance is meant to do. If you're doing it all at once, great. But if you have to do it over a series of project after project, you're still going to reach the same amount as property B, in proportionality to your site. We would never make anybody infiltrate more than. So even if you're doing it on a project by project basis, I just wanted to be clear that you'd still be able to stop once you hit your max lot coverage or minimum open space, if that makes sense.

So does it contemplate, let's say, I'm doing construction on my house, My neighbor says, you're doing construction in my house, I got to do water retention. Pooling it between the two houses to share the cost, so building an underground retention pool. Is that contemplated?

I don't know if you're allowed to cross property lines. I know stormwater is. That's a Melissa question. I don't know if you have experienced that.

So with that you would need to have the two property owners would need to have an agreement signed by each of the properties and then something that's essentially be able to get filed with Oakland County to be able to run with both of the properties. So that way, if the property's sold, one sold five years, one sold 10 years, it's still ongoing type of a deal, even though the original people. Yes, but it'd be something that potentially you would be looking at, need to get signed by both property owners and reportable at Oakland County to run with the property.

Okay, just curious. Commissioner Long. Temporary Mayor Pro Tem Long.

So I understand environmentally what we're going for, but I'm very concerned about the burden on residents. I think we're going to have a riot. I mean, right now, if you want to replace your driveway, you do not have to hire a civil engineer. You do not have to come to the city. And I mean, so there's nothing in here about who reviews this. what we're gonna charge them to review this, how long it's gonna take to get a decision for the review of this. I'm concerned about how much usable property people are gonna have left that you'll be restricted prevented from if you have to do natural or you have pipes throughout your yard that affects what you can usage of your property down the line and I'm concerned about for the design guidance is just punted to Oakland County so if the design guidance is punted to Oakland County and there's a decision about interpretation do we make that decision or does it go to them I When you say design guidance, do you mean the lot design? The ordinance says section 14455, design guidance, shall comply with the design criteria of Oakland County Water Resources Commissioner. So if there's any discretion or judgment, Does that go there? Does it stay here? I just don't think that this is well thought. I don't know if yet. And I would like to see actual examples of a small lot size, a big lot size. I think that this... I know of a commercial property owner who wanted to just put a new layer of asphalt on his parking lot and triggered this and it was going to be $60,000 for him to, and so he decided not to. Just leave it alone. I'm very concerned about this as a burden on residents at this point.

Just to answer your question about it's Oakland County Water Commissioners resource for residential properties and applicable city standards. So the city would still have purview over design standards. It's just we adopted the Oakland County standards as well for commercial properties.

I don't know how anybody who's trying to do this understands what they have to follow with that statement in this ordinance.

Commissioner Haag. His question turned me from a yeah, this is great to a hard no. Flat out, hard no. If I've got to put all of this rubbish in just to replace my driveway, my driveway is going in 10 foot slab at a time, which I don't need a permit for because it's a repair. I'm not doing it. Where am I going to put a tree? Where am I going to put a 200 foot rain garden? Exactly her point. I can't put trees in the front of my house. If I put it on one side, that's directly over my water line and my sewer line, which I already hate having a city tree on top of it because I have problems because of the city tree that I didn't ask for. If I put it on the other side, my gas line goes down the other side. I can't put it there because it'll destroy the gas line. I have nowhere to put it in the front. So I turn the whole of my front yard into a water garden. We've shut people down for wanting to do that in the past because, oh no, that doesn't look like grass. It doesn't look nice. So what do I do? I put it in the back. Okay. I've already put in 200 feet of three foot deep gravel trenches in the back of my yard because I got really sick of my garage flooding. I just did it. I didn't ask for permission. It didn't disrupt anyone. But now my garage isn't under an inch of water. What do I do? No, to the point, her point, what does anybody do? Because it's actually requiring everybody to do major...

I'm going to venture a guess that there will not be a motion, or at least it won't be the suggested resolution. And if there is a motion, it might not get a second, and if it does, it probably won't get four votes. The point is to discuss it, to talk about it, talk about the issues, the problems, get examples.

We're happy to take feedback. This is really valuable to us.

We are happy to have the productive discussion. I will add before because everybody else has spoken so far. I would like more public comment. I would like to hear residents, property owners, builders, architects all contribute to this conversation. I don't know how we do that. Maybe we put it on social media that this is something we're considering and we're going to hold a hearing or we're going to be discussing it on X date or submit comments, whatever.

There's a lot to it. Commissioner Kozlowski. In the spirit of discussion, because I do think we want to do something here. We have a lot of people that are having a lot of problems with stormwater stuff, and if we can figure out some good ways to help people mitigate stormwater, I think that will be a big win for us. But one of the things that I'm... is sort of curious about, I guess, is I'm wondering if we're almost working, I don't know, cross-purposes isn't quite the right word, but we have a lot of engineering projects going on where we are digging up streets and we're putting in new pipes. And oftentimes we are putting in bigger pipes, and oftentimes those pipes are combined sewer and stormwater pipes. Now, in theory, I think if the pipe is big enough and if it's combined sewer and stormwater, we're not worried about pollutants because it's not going to the Rouge River, it's going to a water treatment facility. If we're not worried about capacity anymore either, Haven't we solved the problem? Like, do we still need the stormwater mitigation in a situation like that where we know we have sort of an engineering solution? And a sort of follow-up question, if you will, about that is, you know, we have a downtown, you know, you go to Manhattan, you go to parts of Chicago, they're basically 100% impervious surface. Right. So maybe what they're doing is not environmentally friendly. Maybe they are dumping a bunch of polluted water into places they probably shouldn't be. But I'm curious about how are we thinking about this from, is there a sort of engineering, public engineering solution versus individual mitigation. I can see why, you know, if we have new stormwater systems, you know, in Wimbledon, we're installing new separated stormwater systems, probably not going to have any capacity issues there, judging by what I saw, the size of the pipes they're putting in, but it's going to go into the Rouge. And so we do have concerns about pollutants going in there. So I'm, yeah, sorry, turning it off.

I'll have probably Melissa speak to the engineering aspect of that. I think from a planning perspective, if we go back to our sustainability plan, The emphasis, as well as the tension and releasing the burden on our stormwater system, is to infiltrate more water back into our ground system. That's better for the Rouge. It's better for our drinking water. It has biodiversity impacts. I think that it's still very valuable, my opinion, for there to be increased infiltration on lots. While there may be—that is one of the reasons why we required or suggested requiring natural infiltration measures, even in situations where constructed measures may be able to manage the water and get it away from the property, we're losing out on some of those biodiversity and ecological enhancements that are very valuable to our overall health of our community. So I can let Melissa answer possibly the question about or Nick answer the question about the...

I don't even think they need to answer it. You could, but he answered it himself. Chicago works. New York works. I think that what you're pointing out is that we need to balance the... the virtuous intent with the cumbersome practicality costs involved. So maybe we tweak some things where somebody wants to redo their driveway, they don't have to do this, but if you're building, tearing down a house and building new and you're gonna,

You're gonna sell out for nine million dollars You can afford a cistern or whatever it takes right and you'll probably use it to feed the irrigation system I only just wanted to add because of the way you posed the question that I think it's important to to state that and I think in my estimation based on what I have the tea leaves I've read I guess as I've been working here is that I think what we'd like to get away from is expecting that stormwater mitigation is only the government's problem to solve, and that we're all in this together. I don't think it's only a stormwater thing, but a central theme in the Birmingham Green Plan is we're gonna need a lot from a lot of different people, and this just happens to be one example. So I don't think he meant it necessarily that way, but I thought it was important to at least say that what we're trying to do is all hands on deck, we're all in this together type stuff.

It is a community effort, but I think, to your point, it's not all the government's responsibility. To your observations about New York, Chicago, well, go to Sir Joseph Bazalgette, who designed London's sewer system, and right before they installed it, he said, double it. Double the size of every single pipe. And there's the only reason why London is actually still able to function is because he decided at the last minute double the capacity because he could predict growth. He didn't know what it was going to be. So we do a balance. I think we need to challenge back to engineering. Her example of a six-inch sewer pipe, we make it an eight-inch sewer pipe, you get more capacity out of it underneath an individual's lot. Okay, why don't we make our street sewer pipes instead of eight-inch, why aren't they ten-inch? It gives us more system volumetric capacity. It doesn't mean it flows out of it any faster. It absorbs more. It can be designed that way. There's a lot of historical proof for that. So nobody come up and say it can't be done. We also have to do it ourselves. And I'm absolutely on board with that. That's why I was very happy to read it until your very prescient point of I'm not going to do it now.

So how much did you guys take into account costs?

A lot, I would say. I would say for the individual homeowner, it was one of the primary concerns of making sure, especially the smaller homes for the incremental projects that may be putting in that 200 square foot patio they saved up for. And that was an incredible investment for them in their own property. We don't want this to be an undue burden. We understand the aesthetic concern of rain gardens. We also know they can be done beautifully. And there are ways that landscaping can be considered and used and look beautiful and still achieve the goals that are set out, that it would be set out to do. I think when we think of rain gardens, we think of like the weedy, ugly, like... You know what I'm talking about. We've all seen a badly managed rain garden before. Rain gardens can be quite beautiful and look like regular manicured landscaping if taken care of correctly. So I think it's important to correct some of those misinformation narratives as well along the way and understand that, you know, we maybe and that's part of our job is to do good education as we move through that throughout this so that there isn't a massive concern. No, really. Yeah, we understand that that's important.

Okay, so what are you hearing us tell you?

I believe that I'm due back at the next meeting is what I hear with some significant revisions. Or a meeting later. Or a meeting later with some time.

I think something that removes burden from existing.

Yeah, I'm hearing examples.

The question is, she's got the floor, okay?

No, no problem. I hear examples. I hear we want some good input and make sure that the community has given, understands and would be supportive. I hear that. I hear making sure that there's proven lack of burden on residents to make sure that they are able to complete their projects and done well and make sure that it's understandable. People can read this and understand. And administered. Yes. Administerable. Yes, administerable. Okay.

Do you want to add anything else? One at a time. Does anybody want to add something?

got a very small clarification when he talked about making it for the residents, making it manageable. His example, the point that she made, if it's replacing what exists, I don't want to take care of a rain garden. I don't care to take care of it. I don't want that burden. I want to take that slab of broken concrete out and put a new piece in. That's it. Nothing else. If it exists and I'm not growing it, no change.

I think that we will lose the war on the replacement driveway porch patio sidewalk issue i hear you um and i get i would like to see some drawings from small medium large extra large lot sizes I think it's much more complicated than people understand about building size and the impervious calculations of your driveway and your sidewalk and your patio. And I wanna see that you can actually fit the solutions on the lot and still have a yard that little kids can run around and throw a football, which is why people wanna come here. Cause I'm not convinced that you can. And then I also wanna know about, particulars of the review and permitting process and the timelines and the costs.

Absolutely. May I throw one more thing in there? Yeah. I think if we're going to be asking people to do this, if we keep any of the sort of redo your driveway stuff, I feel like we're going to need some really good guides for people about here's the kinds of options that are available to you and here's the kinds of Ballpark estimates about mitigation levels if you need to mitigate this much. Here's the kind of things you can look at Because it's it's just a totally different project, right? The guy that comes in to redo your driveway is not gonna know any of this stuff. So Yeah Resources is gonna be very important We good Commissioner host

You know, Summer, as a generalization, when we say the residents, those are the people that live here. I'd like to see more burden on the builders, the developers, the wrecking ball people, so that the onus is more on them versus the residents.

Excellent. Perfect.

Let's move along. I'm not sure which, I'm trying to figure out the next two items and whether these folks who have been waiting patiently the entire night, are you the next item?

They are item G. That goes with item F that needs to occur first.

F and G are together? Yes.

So item F is the water and sewer rate and connection fee ordinance change. So the first thing to potentially be able to adopt the water and sewer rates in item 8G, we need a motion from city commission to revise the utility ordinance that's chapter 114. To be able to incorporate the new method of the water and sewer rates that been proposed to you and information provided in May and then also in June itself So high-level summary of it the red line for the utility ordinances the definitions just providing a clarification for a few of them and And then the connection fees providing a little bit of clarification on that. And most of it is eliminating the fees for cross connection inspection since that will be included coming out of the water and sewer rates itself as a whole. And then updating the billing portion of section that's underneath chapter 114 of utilities. And available for any questions that the commissioners may have.

Well, he's not here, so I just have to ask him.

Commissioner Hay.

So I was just going through this, and I've got a question in the background piece. It says, service provider costs which account for over 40% of total expenses are projected to increase by 5% to 7% annually for the foreseeable future. Why? Why do they get to increase at a greater rate than anyone else does? Why don't we just say, no, you get 3%? Tough luck. We have to do 3%. You get 3% too.

So the service provider cost, that was information given by Great Lakes Water Authority earlier on this year in some of the initial meetings that we've had with them. Because in the past 10 years, their average increase was right around 3% to 4%. But they've mentioned in the future to potentially look at 5% to 7% annual increase from them.

Why? Local operation and maintenance costs are expected to increase by 3% to 4% annually. So how come we can do better than they can? Why are they so poor with their money? Why do we get to subsidise inefficiency?

So with this, if I can, I was going to bring him up at the next meeting, Eric Griffin, he's the manager of SOCWA, our water authority. He attends our meetings on behalf of Great Lakes Water Authority, and he may be able to answer these questions.