Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

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right, we're going to call this joint public hearing to order. Um I will just start out by mentioning that we are on camera and anything that is spoken in this room is definitely picked up and broadcast. So um notice is hereby given at the village of Big Ben Planning Commission will hold a joint public hearing on October 23rd, 2025 at 700 p.m. at Village Hall. The purpose of this public hearing will be to receive public input on the following matters. Number one, BRT Services LLC. Andrew Smith and Demi Smith applicant requesting a conditional use amendment and associated site plan and plan of operations to request to operate a trucking operations business. The property is generally located on the west side of Wind Drive, approximately 600 ft south of Edgewood Avenue at South 87, West 23130 Wind Drive on approximately 2.98 acres, partial TK BV BBV2105030. Um, if there are any public comments, please state your name and address and [Music] I'll start. My name is Michael Bennett. My address is West 231 South 8770 Edgewood Court, Big Ben 53103. Uh, my wife and I have lived in our house on Edgewood Court in Big Ben for 32 years. BRT has been actively working on the site since March. No sight plan, no plan of operations. Why, despite my repeated questions about it happening, wasn't allowed to continue. I was told by the planners in June that BRT would be fined $100 a day until they submitted their plans. Did that happen? The reason that BRT continued to do what they wanted to do on the property without permission was so they come here tonight and have this committee approve what they have done. They're here tonight to have and have submitted their proposal

without thought that the planning commission will in essence look at the project and say, "Wow, you have made such a change here. I guess we have to prove it now. They've come here in essence to ask you to forgive all the things they've done to get this far on the property without your approval. They are not here to ask for permission. I ask the comments I ask that the comments to say I asked that the committee to say just the opposite. You should have come here first and before you bought the property to see what we had to say about putting a 24-hour trucking operation in the area that borders residential homes. And regardless of what you have done here, this is the wrong place for this type of business. Deny that application. Shut them down. BRT is already advertising their 24/7 presence on this spot to draw up business again without ever gaining approval for for the business in this place. My neighbors and I are here to tell you that BRT does not belong on our lot lines. The noise, the early starts and late stops, the truck washing and drying, the wrongway trucks for hours on end can be towered in places where people leave their jobs and go home at the end of the day. We should not be forced to be woken up by rumbling trucks at 3:00 a.m. go to work at our jobs, come back home to more rumbling trucks, incessant power washing, gas blower drying, and the these same trucks rumbling till 10:00 p.m. at night. Every time a truck starts on that property, my property values go down. This is happening to every home in close proximity to the trucking company. And a number of my neighbors are actively looking to move before this gets worse. And if this gets approved tonight, it will get worse because the inaction that Andy Smith calling on this past summer that made him believe that he can do what he wants and he won't move to stop it. My my neighbors and I have seen this. BRT has seen this. Now it's time for the village to step in to stop this. If this does not happen, I hope the village of Big Ben is prepared to buy my property and a number of other properties of the fair market value from before BRTC started to work on Wind Drive. I surely will not be able to sell

my property for what it's worth. The proect the excuse me if a prospective buyer steps out of the back door hears the noise and is told that the village of Big Ben let a trucking firm work out work adjacent to residential properties in the pond of the cost of our homes and allows to place the PC that was here previously from BR trucking when making your decision. Several months ago, Copart Manufacturing Kindles consider plan to put a parking lot full of the damaged cars in an open field off of Guthrie Drive. We of course denied as it was did not belong in there. If Copart had just paid for the land and park junk vehicles there without asking for our permission, would we have allowed it after the fact? That's what Andy Smith is asking you to do right now. I was asked to be part of the planning commission some 25 years ago after the previous owner of the same property came to the commission and asked to build a machine shop on the same shared lot line we are discussing now. The owner showed up with a drawing of what he wanted to do on a napkin from the Shamrock Bar. His plan was to his plan was to build a machine shop and after it was done submit his plan to the village. Obviously that plan was denied but it's likely why Andy Smith decided to make all these changes and come to us after After it was mostly done with his plan, it was Dean Leveki who came to us with that plan on on the napkin and it was Dean Leveki who sold the property to Eddie Smith and VR Trucking. It was decided at that meeting 25 plus years ago that heavy industry should not be permitted next to residential properties. There needed to be a buffer to protect the resident. Turning trucking firms like this are exactly what I brought up. One more thing, I work in the transportation business just like Annie Smith. I run 50 plus school buses in Brooklyn. We've been servicing the new school district since 1989 and have been a driver, dispatcher, operations supervisor, and general manager general manager since 2006. I mentioned this because in our operation, we no longer can wash our vehicles

outside without a permit from the DNR. That permit states that all water we use to clean our buses must be captured and disposed of properly. I asked Ben Koa and Bridget Barry to check on this in regards to BTS's incessant washing trust without the proper improvement and without following procedures that are required by law. When I did not get a response from Ben and Bridget, I contacted the VN myself and confirmed with them that the laws about washing commercial vehicles and also the BRT was not adhering to those laws. They will be visiting DRT soon. My wife and I have been here 32 years. Thank you. I'd like to speak. I agree with what Mike Bennon is saying. My name is Nancy. My name is Nancy Dean. I live at South 88 West 23175 Wind Drive in Big Ben. And we have lived there since 1986. We have seen businesses do exactly what they're doing right now ever since. that is not the first business that has come in there set up and once they're running and going, then they come to the plan commission. Oh, sorry. We didn't know. And we I when I used to do fire inspections, I had both owners and the renters admit to me that they were told, "Well, just get set up, get going, and once you're set up, then go and say, "Oh, I didn't know." that was so well known back then. This has been going on for years why this is such a surprise. I I don't know. I really don't know. And for as all of the things that have happened down by us, we had one company down there that was a fruit and vegetable business. They used to take

literally the crates that stuff came in and the rotten stuff. They'd literally layer it and they'd burn it and walk away, which was an illegal fire. You have to attend it. It has to be in a in a proper this fest. It It's just unbelievable the stuff that they used to do. They finally after years of doing this got caught because the pile was almost as high as the building. And our chief had to be called down to witness it. and they got the police department to finally come down and they find them. The same business had outside storage which they weren't they were supposed to screen. They didn't. Finally, they said, "Well, we've got all of this stuff. What are we supposed to do?" So, they went and they got the containers to put it in. Well, they were allowed five. They got 10. They're still there. They've got stuff behind their the uh fencing as well, but they they were only supposed to be working till 6:00 p.m. They were supposed to allow them to start working at 6:00 a.m. They had referred trucks, too. They came in at 4 4:30. They'd let them run until 6:00. We didn't have police department 24hour. We still don't. And they'd have to actually come and see it and then be told, "You got to get out of here." Well, all they did was just tell them, "We'll come back in a couple hours. Run around the village for a while or go park in the the park and ride again. Nothing ever happened to them." Nobody got fined. I mean, personally, I think if you if you have a business and you're renting it out, there should be you should be responsible for telling them you need to go to the village first. You're not getting in the building. You're not going to come on the property until you get everything squared away with the village. every single fire inspection have has on

it. You check to see if they have their certificate. If they don't, you write it down. Then that's supposed to be reported to the village. And again, same thing. Nothing happens. I I guess I had a guy that actually did sand blasting when it when the neighbor, which was a business, was next to me before there was a house, which is now. And they've sandlasted military vehicles with lead paint. Why? Because somebody else was offered the contract and said, "No way." Because it would be too costly for the cleanup. They were doing it out in the open. We videotaped it. We brought it down to the meeting. Nothing got done. Absolutely nothing. They did this for an entire week. They had one one truck in there after another. Well, right now BT on their website, they're in and running as of May of this year. They've got their work uh time period is 24/7. Well, you know what? You need to have both the business owner and the property owner, when there's a separate one, they both need to be fined. You both need to say, "Look, this is the way we do things down here. You're not going to be allowed to do this anymore." The only reason this gets away with it is because the same thing gets told to them every single time some some new business comes around. We used to have um I'm trying to think what that was. There was something they were blat No, I'm going to talk. It's my turn.

It is your turn, but we have to stay focused on BRT and the topic at hand.

It It's all the businesses down there, including BRT. BRT shouldn't even be in there, but they're in there. And according to their website, they're up and running 24/7. Okay? It's the same thing. You have to know a little bit about the history of what's been going on and how this keeps happening over and over and over again. And somebody's got to address it. And that's why I'm bringing it forward. It needs to be addressed. I don't care if it's a decent business, but put a business that's supposed to be in there according to what you have down there. If you look at all three streets coming down onto Wind Drive, oh, it's on a hill. Well, guess what? Everything that's down there just echoes. You can hear the kids playing on the playground down in our area during the day. It is It's like a I don't know, whatever. So it's just like you know what you have this you have businesses next to residential you do have to consider that you have to consider everybody unfortunately where we live we have never been considered and I think it's about time that the village gets going and starts to look at all of the issues and not just oh you didn't know oh okay go ahead keep going no problem And that's how this keeps going. This isn't the first time somebody's come down here and it's not going to be the last if they continue to do this. And yes, it's B the BRT and it's all the other businesses that have come and gone. And some of them have still stayed. So guess what? It's the same thing. You're allowing it to happen by not finding them, by not telling them, look, this is the way it is. There should be no businesses going in until they have all the proper paperwork and

procedures done. But the fact that they could be let in and do whatever they want to, well, you're allowing it to do to happen. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Betty Quincy. I live two blocks away from the Cam Brown Drive, West 232 South 8780 Brown. I can hear them very clearly in my backyard. I'm outside 2:00 in the morning cuz I can't sleep with my dogs during the summer and somebody's out there rubbing around their trucks and leaving. It's 2:00 in the morning. I can't imagine what these people are hearing. It's It's loud at my house. I can hear the pressure washing. I can hear backups. I I can hear whatever they're doing. I can see them through my dining room window. And you can hear pounding. 10:00 at night, they're pounding. And my dogs are barking. That's not fair. We need quiet. It was a quiet area. I lived in my home for 35 years. It used to be quiet. It's not anymore. We We can't allow this. It's a quiet neighborhood. It's peaceful. And we needed to go back that way, the way it was.

My name is My name is Glenn Palmer. I live at West 231 South 8790. I live right on the corner with Edgewood in Wayne. I'm going to make this short cuz I don't want to drag it all off. But we started we've been there almost 18 and 12 years and we had to deal with Associated Industries with Dean and the crap that we had to go through with that cuz that's right in our backyard.

I used to work nights. My wife would call me at 8:00 in the morning saying, "You got to be kidding me. Dean's out there in his uh black Hummer, radio glaring. He's drunk behind the the wheel." How do I How do I know that? How does she know that? Cuz she went over there and confronted them. Startled the crap out of them. We put up with that crap then. I'm not going to put up with it. Now, I understand you got a business. You want I Hey, I I don't fault anybody for wanting to have a business. But in our subdivision, my neighbors across the street can be talking. We can be talking and it's swear I swear to God, it sounds like we're right next to each other. But from sun up to sun down, that's all you hear is a noise, power washing, banging on stuff. I mean, granted, they did do some nice stuff. They replaced with the crappy fence that kept getting put uh band-aids on to make it look good. The fence would fall into our yard, you know. He didn't do crap. Uh they fixed it up. It looks nice, but we should have checked with the area first. Come over and talk to the people. The noise. I'm sorry. I just I'm just frustrated with this. We can't have this.

It's a quiet neighborhood. It's just out of hand. And we're all older people.

You know, something isn't done. I agree with Mike. Fair market value. My house. I'm the owner of a property that's adjacent to those trucking companies, Salt 87, West 2313537 Edgewood. I use that property as my retirement. It's a rental property and my tenants are complaining about noises starting at 3:00 in the morning and they're working. They're being interrupted. Right now, I do not have any family with children there. Thank God because these are all adults, but if there was a young family there, I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to keep them very long because of the noise. The second thing is these gentlemen mentioned the value of the property is going down because the word is going out around the community that it's a noisy environment. It never was that way. I owned that property for 55 years. I have lived there personally myself for the first 10 years and I never experience anything like these people are going through now.

Could you state your name sir please? State your name please. We can get your name. My name is Gerald J. But is boy U T A L L A.

Thank you sir. I'm Sherry Lubeeki. L U B E C K E. We have a business across the street from them, South 88, West 23145 Drive. I want to support this company. They've done nothing but improve property. They support the community. They help with the snow falling. They help with everything. If things are needed, who who do it who does a village go to? They believe that we have no problem with them. I'm feel sorry for the people that built a house next to the industrial park. The industrial park was there,

right, forever. There is I'm not trying to push negativity because I don't want to see negativity. I want to see positivity. I want to help these people and endorse them. That's what I have to say about them. They've done nothing but good things. Thank you.

Leo Thomas, uh my wife Cindy and I live on the corner of Edgewood and Edgewood, big spruce trees, you know it. Um, we live a distance from this business and we are witnessing its noise and vibrations into the evening, into the night, on the weekends. Um, they exist in a neighborhood and they are not being neighborly. You you must be a good neighbor in the village of Beth or leave. Thank you. My name is Dang. I live at West 229 South 83280 Big 10 Drive. I'm actually a resident of the village of Vernon, former town of Vernon. I moved here in 1986. Been here ever since. At that time, the area in question was part of an industrial area, which it still is. Uh, Big Ben Lumber Company was in business and the fruit tomato distributor was in this very building at BRT is going right now. It's been an industrial area as long as I have been here, which has been uh nearly 36 years, 35 years and u 30 years. But anyway, yes, there are houses on the west edge of the property. I have seen that BRT company has parked some van empty van trailers into in obviously an attempt to mitigate the noise pollution going into the residential area. Uh BRT has already

taken some steps to cut back on the noise. Maybe they would do more in the future. Um, I being a retired truck driver, 46 years, tractor daily, I'm familiar with the business. Yes, they do run day and night, but the uh area has always been an industrial park, industrial area. DOT is across the road, machine shops down the road, uh, car repair shop there, lots of shops in the area. So, I'm asking this plan commission to consider granting the conditional use permit and other permits to BRT trucking so they can continue on the way. Thank you.

Thank you, Dan. What is the actual zoning? I'm to the north. The property is zoned I1 industrial. It's all industrial in there, including the residential. No, the residential is residential. Okay. What are the hours that when it's industrial? What are the hours for noise?

7 a.m. to 9 p.m. There's a limit of 65. So, well, the thing is, okay, I'm on the south, my bedroom's on the south side of my house, and I'm directly north of them. And at 4:00 in the morning, 4:30, I'm waking up, you know, out of a dead sleep. And if I go to bed like, "God, help me, you know, cuz I don't get any sleep. I can't get back to sleep because they're continuing during that time." Now, personally, I like the guys. I mean, they help me a lot in the winter time as far as plowing up my driveway and stuff like that, but we've got to be able to sleep sometime. And then also, what about the ground water? Is is there washing of the vehicles affecting the groundwater?

Those are my questions. I didn't name. Oh, Trevor side. And I'm South 87 West 23131 Edgewood Avenue. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Pat Mecca and I live at West 231 South 8740 Edgewood Court. I just wanted to say a few things. One is that when I when my folks moved and built a house, they ended up with an expressway in their backyard because that's the way Milwaukee did it. And then when I lived on my own for 5 years, I lived in right off of the street and it was noisy. So when I was looking for a house, I came to this neighborhood at many different times and I'd roll down the windows and sit there to see if we get a a quiet neighborhood. And that's what we got. The only thing I heard was the children at the playground and that's a sweet sound. But we don't have that now. It's noisy. It stinks from the smoke that comes in, the beep beep beep beep beep of every truck that pulls in. That's very aggravating and it wakes you up at 4:00 in the morning because even if it's in winter and your house is buttoned up like crazy, you get woke up by those noises and the smoke that comes through the from when they're cleaning their engines. It's like we barbecue out there. This is our kitchen area. And you see this smoke by my neighbors. This white smoke coming through cuz somebody wanted to clean off their engines into somebody else's backyard. That's not right. Not right at all. And I'm hoping that this committee will be brave enough to do the right thing because the this is our homestead. This is where we live. This is not this is not good. We've had this once with the village board as I don't know your name. My name is Nancy Green. You said and um this should not happen again. The village did say that that time. We should have never put a noisy uh factory in next to the um the neighborhood. Well, we are neighbors. We don't have an alley between us. We don't have a road

between us. We are but next to that company. That's not right. So, I'm expecting you guys to help us out. We've lived here a long time, 29 years, and you can hear all the other people that are living here 30 years and and then some. We need your help to do the right thing. Thank you for Thank you. If there any kind of compromise, we can all make But the thing I didn't think of was second and third shift, you know, as far as people's work schedule, but I, you know, that's what I'm hoping for is some kind of compromise.

I understand what you guys are going through and I think we all do. I mean, I live right behind a grade school and I get up for work at 4:30 in the morning and most mornings I can hear the guys working at BRT and I get home from work and I can hear them, you know, until I go to bed. I'm a heavy sleeper. I don't doesn't give me any problems. I'm not, you know, I I you know, I I I get that they make a lot of noise over there. Um, just a quiet community, but everything is amplified. You got to see from the

We can't sit in your backyard and communicate with each other because the noise is so loud. We can't keep our windows open in the summer. How How is that right for us?

You also you also have to take the topography into consideration. Also, we have 18 wheelers that keep crunching down the the the uh tunnels that go underneath the roads. The one that's by our corner constantly gets crushed down. It costs money to have to have that fixed over and over. We have such increased traffic, truck traffic going through our subdivision. I mean, why is that right for us to have to put up with all of that? I mean, this subdivision is different. It It's not like it's the other subdivision where you've got a huge burn. And I know people there that are still complaining about even right living right next to there. And when that subdivision was first put in by Jack Win, he he had the the houses in there first, the businesses came next. And I'm sorry, but every single time we get a new business in there and they're they're doing whatever they want to and it and there's some good businesses down there. And I you know, I'm sorry, but we have a uh car uh mechanic that's down there. He's lived or lived down there. He's been down there as long as we've been down there and possibly more. He's always done, you know, right by both his areas and ours. And there's other businesses that are down there have done a great job. Unfortunately, the businesses that are right up against us are the ones are the, you know, the ones doing the the most against us being able to have a decent life down there. Even if you have all of your windows closed up, you're still hearing it. Every We still have these huge explosions that go off. we that literally shake your house. We have no idea. It's coming from the industrial area. We don't know who's doing it and

that's been for years. You know, we we don't mind having businesses down there. But be decent. Be a decent neighbor. Realize that you have a different situation. You don't have Milwaukee off the expressway where you can have because they obviously from their website they have 18 wheelers that go in and out of there. That's what they truck. They have to have repairs done. That's going to be 24/7 because they have to keep their trucks going all the time. When you look at all this, this is a 247 business. And they tout it as a 247 business. Well, down there, that's not a 247 area. And I I just wish that this would be looked at, but not by one issue or another. It has to be the whole package. Thank you. Anybody else have any additional comments? Yes.

Hi, I'm Karen Daddy. I live on W232 South 8775 bedroom. Um, my husband is up at 2:30 in the morning. We're continue to work by 3:30. They're already working. I'm up at 5. I can hear them working when I'm sitting outside not in my morning. It's very loud. It's very disruptive. Um, and as far as the runoff is concerned, we have I don't know about anybody else, but I have a well.

What is I know I have a well. What is seeping into our ground? Is it safe? I would imagine not. Look at the chemicals they probably use to clean these trucks. Never thought of that.

Um, restrictions, I think, should be put on them. If you're doing construction in a residential area, you cannot stop before 7 a.m. Why can't that be a regulation here? I mean, you guys are not losing your sleep. You're not losing the depreciation in your house values. We are. And there could be long-term effects by that water going into the ground. What are you going to do? I speak.

Yes. So, I'm Andy Smith. I'm the one that you guys in question here. Uh, I live on S87 W2254500 Avenue. I've been a member of the community since 2011. Uh, I've lived here. Uh, I've started my business in this name in this area. I originally started on the other side of Industrial Park and we moved over to uh, Wind Drive currently. Um, when I bought that property, the property is zone industrial. It was already a trucking company to begin with. So at that time we felt that it was a good fit for what we have. So we had bought the property. I came to the village at that time and talked to them about questions about what I was going to do. So the people that said that I didn't come here and ask it's blatantly lies. I came here. I submitted paperwork and my next door neighbor Mike submitted a bunch of in information that wasn't correct which made the V village board question some things that was going on at that time. I went and spent thousands and thousands of dollars that I didn't have to make sure the lies that this gentleman said was truthful. So I went through and it was proved that it was not what he said it was. The groundwater issue that you guys are talking about, this place already has a retainment system because it was a produce building. All water that's washed goes into a croc and it gets pumped out weekly. I have receipts to prove it. So the claim of I'm washing and putting chemicals into the area is not true. Everything gets washed into its separate bay all by itself. Um, I I don't want to be a a pain in the community, but I also want to be a member of the community and help out wherever I can. I mean, I've never once said no to anybody in this. If anybody's asking it, I've always said yes. I mean,

our hours aren't going to be 24 hours. It's we do emergency work for the state of Wisconsin and sometimes we leave early and it's not like it's an occurrence every day after day but I do feel that in that area like you guys have talked it is like an echo chamber but I get wrapped in everybody else though whenever you hear a backup has anybody in here said do or limb walkers or uh the other landscape companies no you guys just point it right at me but there's multiple times and I have videos where they're at 8:00 just hanging out talking and there's backup beepers all over the place and it's not for me. But I'm getting the blunt of all this and it it sucks because I am trying to be a respectful member and try to be do the right thing but at the same token I got people pointing their fingers at me and saying that I'm doing all the bad and I'm not. I mean, I would love to come to a compromise to figure this out, but I mean, at this point, I I don't know what path to go forward. I mean, it's zone industrial. I'm following the rules that the industrial park uh lays by. I I'm sorry you guys own a house next to an industrial park. It's a real It's a real weird situation. I mean, this isn't something that happens all the time, and I don't want to be a nuisance, but I also spent a lot of time and to grow my business in this area to, you know, pump money back into the community, too. I mean, I don't know what else to say, but if you're going to call me a liar, please go right ahead. The fact is everything I said is all the stuff that you're doing. What's the

And my neighbors will attest to that, by the way. Every single one of them. What emergency do you do for the state? So, we do a barrier wall. So, when there's a crash or accident on the freeway, um especially with Milwaukee County, we have to go out and replace barrier wall if the wall is damaged that time. See? Yeah. Crash cushion wall. Thank you. And it's it's all off site. It's nothing's on site. this. And I mean I I do I I make sure the guys back in every night so if they do leave early, they're not backing up in the morning. They're they're just leaving. Yeah. The lights are up against the fence. I see them every morning.

We I mean I see you putting up, you know, Can I make a point? Um everybody here has had an opportunity to speak. I want to be mindful of everyone's opportunity. And I know there may be a follow-up question or a comment here and there, but I'd like to keep the the conversation progressing forward with new comments and new folks as opposed to Yeah, I I still get Mr. Chairman. So, we got to follow beyond what the scope is getting. Correct. actually and on the nature of Michael Vanc. [Music]

Are there any other comments?

Uh, I'd like to say something. My name is Doug Broy. Uh, own Martin's Automotive on Drive there. Um, the majority of the people here, my customers, all really good people. Uh, I feel for the situation. It's a tough one. It's a It's a loss loose. Um, or it's it's a tough situation, but um, we've been down uh, at our site, our auto repair site since the 80s. Um, over the years there's been complaints from when comb combined was there with their trucks running too early in the morning and there was residents that had an issue with that. There was it came up. There was a resolution. They figured it out. They were together. Um, same thing happened at when Hugh Hill was there and they had that I think it was like a rock crushing machine or something over there. Same thing.

Um, little back and forth came to came together, came to an agreement.

Um, so I I am in support of what Andy's doing. Uh, he's he's been a great member of the community. He helps out with a lot of the events that occur. He is, you know, anybody that asks him for help, he says yes. Um, and likewise, everyone deserves to, you know, live wherever they live and enjoy their homestead. And he also deserves to support his family, support his employees, uh, support his community. Um, so it really should not be a lopsided situation. Really would like to see everybody come together and get something figured out here. I think we can we can do that as a commitment. So, I just wanted to express my or for for BRT. Thank you.

Can I see something else?

Huge hall. Your business, all the other businesses down there are working from 8 to 5. Not one of you is coming. So, I need to have 24/7. I need to have that 8 to 5. You don't start up your trucks at 3:00 in the morning and let them run. You don't bring them back at 9:00 at night and wash them and then dry them with a gas blower that makes more noise than you can possibly believe. And he can do what he wants if he wants to do it between 8 and 5. I think that's the compromise. Shut the gates at 8:00 or at 5:00. Shut the gate. Open the gates at 8, but not not the rest of the time. We have to live. We have to live. I've been there 32 years. This is, you know, it parks in my backyard. I can hear his guys talking about this, that, and the other thing. I got a one-year-old grandchild. She can't sleep in the bedroom anymore. [Music] Come on. The compromise is he cuts his hours to two hours when when we're not there, when I'm at work. And no weekends. Yeah,

you don't like you don't like the compromise. Tough move. The fact is that we are there at that time. We have to live. I hate to say it, but it doesn't belong along that long. Not one of the other businesses was there. Not one was going all night long. Not combined produce, not the guy who was delivering that was sorting clothes. None of them were going past 8 past 5 or 6 o'clock in the afternoon. There was no trucking business there. What was there was a guy who sorted clothes for and Becky rented to him. That's what was there before and it wasn't 24/7. He could attest to that too. He lives right next door. Can I ask did anybody suggest to them possibly going to the other industrial park where they have a larger area of facilities to work on trucks that size and they have trucks that size coming in and out as a better location than coming down by us where everything is small, cramped, and it does have other issues concerning it as far as open hours and everything. Them knowing already that they advertise 24/7.

You're asking a guy to move his own business. No, no, no, no, no. This is before they This is when they first come to the plan commission saying that they want to open up a business. This isn't after they they've been doing that for a long time where they open it up, get all the money invested, and then it's like, you know, I've got all this money invested now. Can't we just work together and let's just get this going?

You know, I'm sorry, but we've had businesses down there that said that they're going to do one thing and they do the other. They've been restrictive for hours. I The one that used to be next door to mine. They used to they they were told, "Close up your front doors." Well, they opened up the back doors again. And they were working past their hours of operation.

All right. Thank you. Are there any other new comments? Are there any further comments? Third and final asking for comments at the public hearing. There are no more comments. I will entertain a motion for the planning commission to adjourn their portion of the public hearing. I'll make a motion. Second. Any further discussion?

All in favor? I opposed motion carries board. I make a motion to any other discussion.

All those in favor? I any opposing now. Thank you very much. [Music] Yeah. But the noise. Yeah. Exactly. [Music] Excuse me. We're going to call meeting but everybody's here.

Um for public comments public comments are for any not on the agenda.

There are no public comments. We'll move along. Item three, consideration and approval of minutes from September 22nd. Uh, somebody forgot to do that. We'll get those to the clerk. Uh, hopefully tomorrow. Yeah, my my apologies.

U, we're going to move along. I'm going to shuffle the agenda a little bit here. We're going to put item 14 first. Um in discussion and possible recommendation of a conditional use permit request and associated site plan and plan of operations for occupancy note of existing structure and associated parking lot to operate from terminal property. The property is generally located on the west side of drive approximately 600 ft south of Avenue at South 87 West 2313 Drive approximately 2.98 acres partial DBV25030 owner Edgewood Land Holdings LLC the property is zoned in I1 light industrial district the property is 1.7 acres I think we're talking about two different properties got one 1.72 and one 1.64 that are kind of being used together since that fence came down.

Okay. So I think that's where the confusion. Gotcha. Thank you for I'll turn it over to you for a minute.

Yeah. I'm going to keep my comment break points relatively familiar with the site. It's an industrial zone property. African is seeking to use it as that truck terminal um transportation land use on Wind Drive. Um and it is largely industrial area to the east, the north, and the south with that residential immediately west of the property. Per the applicants, uh submitt uh they proposing about 20 employees. Hours of operation listed in this middle are Monday through Friday 4:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. Saturdays 4:00 a.m. to midnight and Sundays 6:00 a.m. to midnight. And then it does not know with the exception of emergency calls. Batan has somewhat cleaned up the site. They did put that new fence on. I think that is was referenced during the public hearing. Um they're uh anticipating about 30 pieces of equipment parked on the property. approximately 14 trailers being parked there daily. Um you know there is some screening requirements required by the village code um for an adjuster adjacent to the residential. The fence largely does meet that requirement. Um we have a number of recommendations um within the staff court for you should you choose to recommend approval. One thing again you could evaluate further um as long as you have the suspect evidence during the conditional use is reviewing the hours of operation. Is there anything further you can mitigate noise that is impactful to the west? So those are really things to consider is there are some additional changes that you could consider to better fit in if you so thoughts can answer any questions if you have them. If I could just chime in on behalf of the applicant, too. There were a few points in the planner memo that he brought up uh to to answer some some points that were unknown at the time the

memo was written. Um for example, uh one of them is the uh the striping. There have been a request to put striping down in the planner's memo. Uh I have pictures from the applicant that the striping was done. Um I hand those for the record. Uh I said a whole host of uh just other items that I wanted to identify. There was also a mention about um having uh ADA parking striking uh done. Um the applicant will do that. Uh that's not a problem. Um and we can I'm sure probably coordinate with staff to make sure that that satisfies what staff wants to see. That was a mention in the memo as well. Um there was a a point also uh in the memo about screening uh on the the western uh lot line and then also it may have been inadvertent uh about also screening the northern lot line and I think that that that the northern lot line is all industrial it's only the west that's the residential I think the code only requires residential side

yeah his his report was just noting that there is already some screening that's

all understood okay all right and then my final question was kind of to you as which you may have answered already. The way I read the the code was that the the fencing itself would qualify as screening currently. Uh that there wouldn't have to be any added vegetation on top of that. There's already quite a bit that's exist there for from what I can tell um just based on those huge trees that have been there for for many years. Um so I just want to make that last point and then um Uh the other point will be with regard to the noise. The applicant is continuing to try to find ways to help mitigate in noise including uh being as timely as possible with regard to uh vehicles uh exiting uh and entering the premises. Um you heard him mention during the public hearing that vehicles are are backing up at night with the intention that if they have to leave on emergency circumstances, which is really the main reasons why they would have to leave at an early hour, those vehicles have already been backed in. So then they can just pull out directly to help try to release some of that noise. And he also mentioned that there's um been attempts to put things uh in other trailers around the site to just try to bring down that noise as well. Um it's obviously it's a it's an industrial park, so some of that noise may be generated elsewhere, could ricochet off of another building that's in the area, but uh there are, you know, continued efforts and attempts to try to mitigate the noise and reduce it as well for the neighbors. That's all I got. Certainly here to answer some follow questions.

Okay. Um I have I have just uh two comments on my review as well. The first one being that the drainage line is on uh pavement. It goes right through the middle of the site kind of down through that south way out. So, I just put a note that it's a condition uh for my uh for my approval to make sure that that remains unblocked at all times. Um I also had a comment in here about the WNR uh WNP dees permit for washing commercial vehicles and if there's any washing going on outside ever, which seems to be, you know, it's inside. We have we have a we changed one of the uh bays into a wash bay because it like I said the building was already set up for produce because when produce comes in it's dirty and always would leak out the back. So there was actually already a retainment system in that property. I cleaned it out. I fixed it. I put an oil trap in it like the DNR spec says. I only have it pumped out once a week. Um all washing is done inside and contained inside. in the very in the very beginning um we weren't we weren't set up um but there was very minimal things going on at that time but now it's set up the way it is and I also have pictures too of that swale cuz there's there is a water there's a well that pumps cuz the ground level's so low there water table's so high it does pump water out into that parking lot a lot but I got pictures from like 2005 2002 that show that it's always got water going out there. So, it's not from me, it's from the groundwater itself.

Okay. Yeah. If you want to submit those pictures, too, so we can have them on the record. That sounds good. Um, for anybody else who is worried about that statement there, if any vehicle washing occurs outside, that is what requires the WDNR, WNPS permits. The owner wishes to wash commercial vehicles outside on site. An application must be submitted and reviewed by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. the general permit with a long string of numbers may apply. This is for outside washing activities for truck companies and any inadherence pardon there's a title any inadherence to this may be reported either to the village or the WDNR for review. That is what we could report if we were not washing inside. If if the planning commission wants to make a condition that only washing is allowed to occur inside that structure, that's certainly a separate one on them too. So then it could never work without further still regulatory agencies there. But

yes, there's there's a different permit for pumping out of a tank um which everybody has for like their septic on their own individual fungus. So there has to be a permit to pump out that tank. I'm sure if you do it every week, you're very used to that following those rules that are written down. So, I just want to make that clear to everybody. Yeah, we have a licensed contractor coming to do it. So, yeah, once a week's a lot, man. Yeah, but I try to I'm not I'm not I'm trying to make this right. Like, I'm not trying to do things wrong. I'm trying to make the thing right. So,

how many gallons do you have pumped up a week? It's only like 550 if that up. We have a 2 or 250 gallon holding tank and because we pump it so often, it's that's 550 gallons. And it's not much because everything we have is efficient washing and we use biodegradable soap. It's I mean you can I could drink it in front of you guys. I mean it's this soap is made for the environment. Also made for Stan Walters and I also have uh Sam septics made alternate weeks. So,

those are my only two comments on the application. If the commission has any questions about those comments, I'm here to answer. Or any other uh engineering questions. Everybody get to see the pictures of the lot on lines or the parking lot. I had a question about drive coming into there. What is that? What is that road rated for as far as the highway?

Um, so that road was I was not a part of that project, but recently redone, right? We had a new pavement come through. Um, previously it was uh less asphalt than it was supposed to be for trucks, but I believe that they have upgraded it to proper asphalt. They didn't do five inches of asphalt as per they didn't do the industrial park. They did the resial res. So I believe that when Mr. Wind built this, this is uh all before I was born. So this is just based off some research I did. I did when Mr. Wind built that it was not uh to village standards that there were not 5 in of asphalt there. There were no village standards.

There were no village standards. not built to today's village standards. That is my understanding of roads that were not recently redone there. That is what I have read. However, I've not done any cors to prove that. Um that's my that's my history lesson is it wasn't it was paid with only two and I believe they went out of business before they could finish that area. So where do we start discussion here then?

Well, let's start with this. This lot partial two connects to your original building and lot on the west side. Correct. Well, technically, uh, two separate lots, but yeah, my brother my brother operates out of the They're going to be s used as one similarly or No, no. Yeah. No, separate. That's my whole my whole end goal was to my brother wants to be on his own. I want to be it, but we're family and we like to help each other. So,

understood. that's his and that's not you know so ultimately I thought this was a phenomenal idea but and your brother does similar business yeah my brother does grading and excavating similar things just not 247 no he's got he's got two employees but yeah it's not 24/7 out of curiosity what's the volume of those emergency calls I know it's sporadic or what?

It's not very often. I mean, honestly, the hours the hours that are the main pain is like from 4:00 in the morning until 6:00. That's when the trucks are leaving. And and I know that's starting the trucks up leaving. But from probably from 6:15 until 5:00 at night, there is no noise going on down there. The place is quiet. There's nothing going on because nobody's there. The place is vacant. My mechanics come in at at 2:00 and they work inside. Um, during the summer, obviously, the doors are open when the weather was nice, but we have strict rules with all my employees that if it's 7:00, doors are closed. I mean, I know the other businesses in the area like DOT and I know associated, they would have 11:00, the doors are closed. I'm trying to mitigate as much noise as I possibly can because I understand my situation. But I also I also know that them guys coming back in the evening is from 4:00 till sometimes 8 9:00 depending on the job site that they're on. I mean, I wish I had a snow globe that I could say they're coming back at this exact time, but I can't. And our other thought was being down on wind drive was we live on Edgewood and I know that road isn't made to hold up for the amount of truck traffic that goes around that thing daily. I figured wind was a lot closer for truck traffic in my in my thought. So there's a condition 12 in here about the doors been closed. Sounds like the app is saying they close them at 7. So you could move that from 11 to 7 as well if you so chose.

I I'd rather keep it at 11, but I understand I'm able to talk but not vote. Correct. Correct. You caught you uh Andy, you told you told everybody here that I was a liar about uh um what what's it? I got to ask you a question. Do you have permission to operate out of that property right now? What was the question? Do you have permission to operate out of that property right now? Ben said in a previous meeting that we had approval.

We had approval to go ahead and move in. Is then what are you here for tonight? Okay. Okay. Let's Let's I'm on the planning commission. I'm I'm permitted to talk to him. Is Is that going to be the direction? Yes. Well, I I don't want to back and forth. If you have a question, the question is does he have permission to be operating since March on that property from from the plan commission? I think that's a question of a code interpretation, but I think we're here this evening to go ahead and move this conversation forward. No, what we're here to find out is if he's going to call me a liar, I'll ask him. If he doesn't have me, that's not what this reading's for.

Look, look, I'm the one that is in the bullseye behind his trucks. I should have the the right to question what he's doing over there and calling me names. The fact is that no matter what he does, I'm losing money on my house. You guys are going to buy it. We say yes to him and you guys are buying my house. I will get a lawyer just like he's got a lawyer and we'll we'll we'll we'll go through a sale.

I think the real I guess the question I have cuz I I'm just trying to think about the timeline here. So when they started operating out of the business, they were probably issued a a permit a conditional use permit right when they first moved in there. No, no, no. Tonight is the conditional use to update the conditional. So, we're updating that. There was already a conditional use permit on the property. There's an occupancy. And so, I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm trying to establish what did the original conditional use permit say when it was issued? I can I actually answer that?

So, I can so it can I can just like where were we and where are we now? It's a good question because there actually is not a condition or use permit. Originally when this uh this property was used as a trucking operation, the code at the time the village was interpreting the code as you need a site plan operation approval which was obtained in this instance. Um, I don't know if it was internally or with with the uh the planner that there was a recommendation that there needed to be a condition of use associated with it and it was interpreted to be a trucking I'm sorry transportation terminal. That's the actual CP uh public hearing notice was for a transportation terminal. Um, so that's why we ended up here with the conditional use uh hearing. I read the code a little differently because there's primitive uses for distribution, processing, things of that nature. There's conditional use for operating after um 7:00 p.m. and before uh 5:00 a.m. in the industrial district as well.

I I understand that. I just if we had an original continue if we had a permit and then tonight's goal is to update that permit with what they're asking for. What I'm saying is where is the original for us to review? What what did the planning commission sit down to and agree with originally and was approved and voted on by the plan? There's there's memos from Ben is where that's all we have is memos, right? But we didn't vote on anything. So I'm just trying to be I'm just not right. this.

So then the complaint was again I just want I'm looking at timeline. So what they're saying is we didn't have a conditional use permit and then there there's the complaints. I think the primary complaint we're dealing with is the noise, not so much the business, right? And then we have to determine the way it's zoned. What are the noise ordinances and are we enforcing that? and was that part of the original continual use permit? And if they're coming back to us now and saying we want to update that and we want to run like 4 to 1 or 4 to midnight every night, that's what we're considering. Am I right? If but we got to see what was the original what did we vote on the first time and approve

for to operate out of there. You should have a copy of the original site plan operations site review plan back from uh June 24th 25. You should have all that in your in our packet. Yeah. In your packets. Okay. With the original submitt and everything. When this all got submitted is when red flags are thrown up about drainage and right my I changed the grade. I did all this stuff and then all a sudden everything got thrown in there because people raised some questions that questions over. But since you've submitted a site plan that includes grades. Correct. Correct. I've I I submitted everything. I've submitted I've had the surveys done, the state surveys. I've had everything done.

All I can comment on is drainage. So I want to know that that is looked at. As of this moment, those permits are not legal. Correct. What he's submitted has not been approved. Correct. I I don't know. I don't know. That's what what he's here for tonight, to have you guys approve it. What he has done since March has been without permits. What happened in June? That's what I'm trying to look at the general chair to see what was We never voted on. Never once did we vote on it in this. Is this the Is this what you're talking about right here? This is the new This is I'm looking for the old one. This one in our packet. That's the one in our packet. I don't see the old one though.

Yeah, it's not in our packet. Right. And that's like I said, that's why so any any business that comes in, we review all those things like the the the building and the sign out front and the lighting of the sign and the hours operation and whether it has a dumpster and whether it has screen for the dumpster. And I'm just saying if we did that originally, so you've set good precedent because you know I'm a precedent guy. Like what did we do the first time and where are we at now? And are we consistent with the code? That's all it really comes down to, doesn't it? I don't want, you know,

it would that's it was never under his name. It would the site had a site plan of operation from the previous business. Yep. And then he bought the property in February or whatever it was. We didn't move in until August. But it needs to be when we say operation on whatever you're doing, which is what led them filing in June to ultimately where we are today because they want to come forward saying, "Hey, this is what we're looking to do. What do we need to do? Oh, this classifies that as

which I did and in the process in good faith which I came to every approved you were doing updates to the propate the property but we didn't have a we didn't have an approval in place for operation and that's correct were there building permits issued for and I would say some of that is bad on us that yeah something fell through the cracks my question is was there any building permits issued for any of this work that was done everything was maintained maintenance, painting, fence repairs, things along that line. So, the plan commission doesn't have the the application. No, they that that's the application that led to us being here now today. There was no one from before.

Oh, do you guys have They have that one. It's not as Oh, that's we should That's the one from June 24th. Well, it's it's the submitt that started ultimately the process of the CG. Yeah, he was asking for essentially the when did the prior user get their plan of operation and are we talking about updating from that what that prior user got plan of operation approved for versus what you're doing understood

like correctly correct because it what what you have there then with the original permit is probably some kind of compromise with the business running related to the residence right as far as the noise and the hours of operation and you know like he's put in a better better fence since then and things like that he's addressed the you know what I mean but I just like from a timeline standpoint what was the original what was approved now he wants to change

I don't think the problem is with the business so much is it's just trying to figure out the noise and then Tom you talked a little bit about one and what the dec ordinance is yeah and If it truly is 65 dB from 7 a.m. to 9, 7 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. 65. I couldn't find the exact I'm looking in the nuisance code in the nuisance, but the smells and the sound is in the nuisance or there's some stuff in the zoning. I'm trying to look at the same time. Sure.

It's hard to search on the phone versus computer screen. Um, but that's I mean that seems to be the biggest concern whenever you spoke was the sound of the noise and I understand you pressure washers and leaf blowers washing trucks. You know those things are 100 dB and that's definitely over that limit as far as what is permitted in the village and if you know it could be anybody can operate any business. After we had a confrontation with a neighbor we my guys don't leave after 7:00. But it's still above the permitted. No, it's 90 92 decimal reg.

I don't know if we have any kind of readings that's in the record that suggest that decibels are exceeding the property line which I mean we are in conditional use for we got to have substantial evidence to prove that that exists. So, if we don't have the original permit

and got we've made improvements to the property and he's serving in good faith and he's being a good, you know, member of the community. I think if we're gonna I think if we're going to resolve and that's just my opinion but I think if we're going to resolve this I think we got to look at what is the biggest problem and that is how do we figure out to get some kind of compromise with the noise and I would say you know from a planning commission standpoint we would look at the hours of operation versus the residencies and how does that apply to what we already have on the books. If it says we can only make x amount of noise from the nine and we have to enforce that or they have to petition to change that and we would have to come back and approve that and then we're going to have a hornets mess again of people saying hey you're going to let them make noise till 1 in the morning right that's part of the conditional use Mr. Mr. Chairman, can I just ask you?

As I've been doing research and kind of looking through this entire this entire thing, we have two separate properties is my understanding. First, the property the old Gaffne property taking some of us way back. Ain't that right, Greg? Um, is where they're operating currently. Correct. No. No. So operating they're operating on the old combined protos market's property. So that's parcel two. So the I'm looking at the Gaffne property is owned by his brother. His brother's operating on that. So

and it's actually not owned by his brother. It's owned by uh uh Doug Rugby. His property, the property he owns is the Lebecki property. So it's old. Yes. But what would happen in front of us because this is going to end up at the village board regardless. I I It's okay, Mr. Chairman. I was just wanting. Yeah. So, I'm going to clear that error for sure. Correct. There's confusion. What business then is specifically running out of that top property? It's a trucking company. It's been a trucking company. It was approved as a trucking company. So we're going to have we're looking right now at two separate businesses or are we looking at one separate business? It should be one. Should be parcel two. Correct.

Parcel two. But then why in this plan of operation and this way you call we're describing two properties. He doesn't own both properties. We only apply for the southern. You read off two parcels. It was my I have to review the drainage and it was my understanding that that's where all the water goes. So I was looking at the drainage path all the way south to the end. But the description you gave was for two part two different parcels. The description I have Yeah, I looked at both of them. It's true. I looked at both.

But if you look at uh like the the memo Sorry. Yeah, the memo I mean it calls out the one parcel which is the 50 ending at 5030. 5030 is what we I was calling parcel two the more northern one. No, that's the one. The northern one's not in question. That's correct. And that's what we're making. This is how this all got crazy back in June is the north one. I don't want to touch the anything on the north cuz we my brother Justin Wells and myself we leased that property from Doug. Now, as I bought the property to the south, my brother wants to take over the lease completely by death.

So then he's going to have to get his own separate plan of operation then for that parcel. If there is a current plan of operation for that northern parcel, then that northern parcel, we should have something on file of the plan of operation for that northern parcel. Correct. Right. We should, but that's not part of this. Okay. Right. Right. But it seems like somehow this second parcel has been running BRT partially out of it as well or not. You just use it to turn the trucks around, right? Drive them through. They're completely separate.

The trucks the you're saying that the site that you're operating out of never has trucks leave it and go through the other site, which to use northern southern. Absolutely. Our our southern property we're talking about right here, we never have trucks that leave that site and go through the north. We tend not to. No. Tend or does it or does it not happen? It's a simple yes or no question. But there's there's things that we can do like, you know, there's sometimes agreements between land owners where we say, you know, you have permission to drive through this. I'm not saying that that

true, but what what Jeie's getting at is we need that documentation to support what's happening, right? That's what he's asking for. I'm I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass. I'm just trying to we're trying to clarify what each property is being used for. what approvals have been different given if any for each one so that we understand you know that that balance any so and I'm looking through your your attorney your lawyer gave me the packet from June which is again that's what started this whole process right with all you've been here as you said numerous times getting consultative feedback is what I would call it from the planning to say hey this is what I'm looking to do with this property what do I need to do to the property to help make that work and that's what this has been up until today I Yes, correct

to the CG request, but we as a planning commission never said start operating your business out of that site. If you claim that Ben gave you that approval through email, we need to chase that down because it's never been on the agenda to vote on and give you that approval because that's what the CG is. If you don't have a site plan of operations, which you don't

because the previous property owner did and you are going through that process and when we when did we do our code change? How many years ago? Four, five reclification of the zone. And we had changed light industrial to say, hey, trucking can be here, but it's now a CUG request. It's not a standard use. So, that was done before your time there, right? So, and I'm just again, I'm just trying to clear the air and get facts on the table. Um, you know, we'll hopefully can work this out and come to a common ground, but we definitely need facts and not anything else. We wouldn't have it on record when so it's been operated as a truck terminal from the previous people who operated it.

Sure. But again, that was however long ago and it's under a different person and it was under a site plan of operations which our code doesn't even support that anymore because we changed the code four years ago. I understand that. But what I'm saying is when it was operated under the previous company y in the same area next to the same houses, what did the do we know or have any kind of information what the previous planning commission supported for operations or did it not need it in the past? Did they just move in and run? Would have had no time frame that way to be able to Now I'm going to back up. Are we talking about the north parcel or the south? Just the south. just yeah

stand by because then I see the online records go back somewhere around 96 for myself. Yeah. So point being it's it's been a long time. It's been a long time and again we had to go back through the code because it hadn't been touched in over a decade. And I think that's really the kind of the sticking point here is because we've got residents that have been here for I think just about everybody who talked tonight says I've been here for 30 plus years for the length of that. Correct. So, they've been here since that operation. And again, we have a business. It is operating. He's operating in good faith. He's made improvements to the property. The one lady, whoever it was, even admitted that it was nice,

right? So, I don't think anybody's clean. He hasn't tried to do better. So, I think we just got to hopefully we can find a compromise on the noise. That's really what I think we're here to do. And if we can work that out, then you know with noise it's kind of what's noisy to one person you might not be as noisy to the other person. I mean who's I unless you have some kind of a decel reading. Okay. Who's to say just because they're loud that they're well in our in our we do have the dec. Exactly. But unless somebody has be wrong to make sure that it's being operated.

That's what I'm saying. I mean otherwise just saying that it's loud doesn't mean nothing until this is the original staff report for Justin Williams Andy Smith Wilms Trucking Service and VR Trucking Services respectively. This is for parcel two. This is for parcel one. I'm working on getting parcel two. I doubt that there's a forci. We know that. So this is for the north parcel which again this isn't the c is not for this part but it's to clear the air that's being multi

the north one would be jumping off how long ago was this just out of curio 2018 that top right that's when report

I guess I guess the thing that really like makes my mind spin in a circle is we've been with my brother and myself. Originally, we were on the north parcel. We've been there for 7 years now. And all of a sudden, it's just blown completely crazy. And I think there's one person that's driving us a certain You're damn right. You're damn right. And I just feel

You're 50 ft from my back door. You and I talked about this. Your your your answer to me was this is my property. I'll do whatever the hell I want. Gentlemen, this is this argumenting stuff is going to end and we're I'm going to end it. It's not conducive to this at all. It's not it's not productive and it doesn't serve a purpose right now. Sorry, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. This is the um the community minutes from that same meeting. [Music] So we had a plan of operation last for that property was was back in July 28th of 2016. 2016 is what I've got here in regards to the last thing that was brought before the client commission way back when.

Um, we have had several other businesses as you can see. Um, current property of what they're looking at is 1.72 acres. Correct, Bridget? The southern property. Yes. Yes. 1.72. The northern one is the 1.63 or 4.

So, Operation Green was the name of the company then. So, that property then was the last operation in there. Um, so if a trucking company went in there afterwards, there was not a plan of operation. It sounds like it doesn't sound like Operation Green got kicked out when I bought it. Oh, so I bought in February.

So they that's as long as they've been in there. So they've been operating off that plan of operation for that long. At that time the property all right time operation default we talked about the fence what did it did it list a use of it that's what I'm looking for right Collecting and recycling used clothes. Yes. Textile recycling collection collection collecting clothes. They were open from 400 a.m. till 1:30 a.m. approved. And then Sundays, Saturdays, and Sundays, 5:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. based on a holding tank. Again, the type of business versus what it was. Um, could you just be brief as of operations? Why don't I just hand it to you and you can copy it down yourself this evening?

Well, everyone's giving their years of years of time in the village. Mine is 57. So, they're trying to come to a resolution in regards to everything. I know, Mr. Chairman, I realize I just sit on the village board and I'm not a member of this committee, but I'm just trying to help out to make things a little bit smoother for everyone. so everybody can come to a decent resolution. My concern, and I'm trying to make sense of of it all, as the hearing was going on, I was listening to the residents and everybody making their comments. Like I said, this is going to end up in the village board's lap, and it's going to be up to the village board to make that final determination. I'm just trying to make sure that our eyes are dotted, tees are crossed, and that anything that is done is in the best interest of the community as a whole. Thank you. Appreciate yours and the clerk's efforts tonight.

She's deserves all the credit. Thank you. I won't tell everyone I would offer to give her a kiss for what she's like, you know, I'm right here, right? He doesn't care. So actually sounds like this would be an improvement from the past operation business hours on business days. It's positive

hours ours. Yes. What type of business is different? So that's what I've got so far, Mr. Chairman, in regards to what what was in there previously based on ours. I'm just trying to get getting that we're dealing with the one property and that we're not all of a sudden going to have two properties that are operating the same out of the same business. And if that's the case, that's going to come to pass. Then we have two separate issues that are going to have to be addressed by this commission on that on that. So

I will update my memo and resubmit just for clarification sake. And then also I agree with what Trusty Rener said in regards to um if there's a memo out there from Ben that basically is giving permission for this. I don't think that that was my understanding. I thought that our determination in June was that we need the site plan in order to approve anything. That's what was submitted. Okay. Yeah. I don't know why you didn't end up on a jungle faster, but that's it's that now it's in the past where you were here is where they started.

Well, properties been operating. Stuff has been going on there at least as far back as I from my emails that I check back as far as um March from what I've got. So, that's where we started receiving some complaints. I have the police department right now looking they are doing a research in regards to homes and stuff.

It's our position that the applicant moved in in August of this year,

but we've had complaints prior to that. I don't know if those are complaints. Yes. Okay. So, we've we've established that the complaints line respectfully. Is it complaints to the industrial park complaints to STBR operating on the southern parcel? Because that's what I think it is an important distinction here. And we also don't have actually any evidence in the record that suggests there was actually an operation going on before August. This will throw confusion in BRT operated out of that north lot until August. Right. Correct.

If you live there, you're not going to know which lot that sound's coming from. It's just coming from that direction, you know? I mean, the lots touch, right? Um, can it be established when they took the fence down between the two properties? What does that have to do with anything? Because that's when you started working in the second property. Took. Yes, you did. I don't think uh the satellite imag not that short of a distance in time.

So, we've got a request for additional use. They've been operating out of there. We got to consider the noise. What is I1 zone for? What is I guess I said like what what is allow is is I1 considered to be a 247 area or does that have limitations? No. So I can read you the zone cuz I pulled it up. Yeah, let's have our facts here.

So the I1 light industrial district for per I'm not going to go through permitted uses. We already know that this falls under the CUG. So the the conditional uses that we had changed in the code years ago is for transportation terminals, auto body repair, and any permitted non-residential use with operating/open hours that include the period of time between 7:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. So even so what that's saying is anything after 7:00 p.m. between 7:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. no matter what the business is makes it be a conditional use request. Correct. It wouldn't fall into the permitted. That is exactly what it is. So yeah, I wanted to double check it too because I was trying to remember the code. But so you can do 247. You have to come get permission. You'd have to give permission.

That's what I'm Yeah, that's essentially what it basically it's it's an option and you would come before the planning commission and then and so that's what I'm saying. Did we ever do that? That's what they're here for today. Yeah. We had not given them that permission yet. The planning commission and and technically right. Could I ask a clarify question then? Because it says any permitted non-residential use trucking business is the permitted use. It it becomes a conditional use by virtue of the hours of operation technically. So I think in this instance what the planner had looked at was two things. The transportation terminal is a conditional use and the hours operation are both a conditional use.

Yeah. The the permitted uses trucking company is not a permitted use. So both the reason it would trigger the need or the requirement of the conditional use. I can I'll rattle off the permitted uses for I1 since that's what it's zoned. Um light manufacturing, fabrication, wholesaling, processing, distribution, printing and publication, and adult oriented establishments. And lastly, oh no, there's two more. Research and development. Then trade in contractor's offices with accessory shop and or fully screened or enclosed materials, vehicle and equipment storage space. So nowhere in there is a trucking type of establishment is the in the permit use distribution. Um I would say that's a vague way to say trucking, but that's my interpretation too.

What are we distributing? Yeah. Where the processing? What are you processing? You have trucks that leave on the site. You distributing, aren't you? Taking something and distributing it off site truck. Yeah, you're distributing the truck. I think the the you're taking a truck and distributing materials. I think the planet correctly interpreted it as transportation here.

I mean, that's the sub point. None of these terms are also defined. So, let me keep going. Just clarify one more. So again, it would be our job to look at the permit that was subh submitted by the applicant and based on the whole situation decide if we're going to let him run those hours operation on the table basically. Cor right and sure there's obviously a lot of There are

behind uh correct ammunition, facts, comments, all that jazz leading up to it. But we have presented what we require from any business to get a CD. Correct. Is the black and white of it. Just a comment. I notic in the other property just talking about what was discussed when they approved the other property. Um and there was not here that Mr. Smith had stated that they would turn off backup alarms. Issue. There's an issue with that.

There's a federal standard that you can't shut them off cuz if someone shuts them off and never turns them back on and you back over someone on a job. So, originally we did have everything on shut offs. And then we had an incident where a guy almost got crushed on a job site. And then that's when the federal government had with all the trucking rules, you can't have it on a switch. I I my hands are tied. My hands I believe the state will not allow you on a project with an backup.

Yeah, my hands are tied on. Correct. Correct. can disable that. Yeah, we have BRT is still, as far as I know, listed to operate out of that north lot per 2018. That makes sense because again they when he would have left when you say in August it's not like they came back and changed their site plan of operations but pulled BRT out of it

right so that would be a legitimate fact. So if we deny this he can still run everything out of that north lot cramped twice as busy. fully compromised. It is. And he that's a question. He's been running that business out of there for seven years. That's what I'm but that what that's what I'm saying. Is the plan of operation for that support what he's doing today?

Yeah, he's grown obviously. That's what that's the point I'm trying to make here in in regards to some of that warrant is that northern lot that's fine if he gets denied and that he still has to abide what the plan of operation for that property up there is if he's still going to operate based off of what I came up and yeah there's no hours of operation

right yeah there's I mean we would have to do some more digging and whatever else to kind of come up but not everything was in there that should have in there. Even with the the with the uh True Greener, Operation Green, even in theirs, it says here for their plan of operation and their um site plan that semi-truck shall not service or idle on the property between the hours of 8:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. daily. All sorting/ transfer or other related work shall be limited to indoor activity only with building doors closed to accumulate for noise from the hours of 8:00 p.m. to 7 a.m. daily.

It was quiet.

They talked about green space fence on the west boundary being fixed at that time. So, I mean, as much as he's been doing with everything, you know, that's kind of what got, you know, I shouldn't say kind of that's what we back back in 16 version. I think some of this stuff we're talking about, we're kind of getting out the task at hand, what we're really trying to accomplish here. And at this point, it's starting to get confusing of what are we here for. You know, we know what we're here for, but we're not getting to it. I think the one thing I'm wondering about is if we allow him to work the hours that he wants to work, but the noise ordinance says you can't make that much noise during those other hours. We're not upholding the code as it's written. Is I mean, right? If it says you can't have over 65 dB in I1 after 900 p.m.

and we're going to let them run till 1 in the morning. Yeah. Again, that's not like we have who's enforcing measuring who's going to enforce it. Well, you know who's going to enforce it? The people who come here and complain. That's who's going to enforce it. We're not going to have the noise police driving around, right? But again, we do have to consider the rules we already have on the books. If it says that the decel noise in I1, and again I'm going off of what you said, you know, based on but I mean it's, you know, what did you say was Abby? What's that?

The dec or before a certain time. They can't spike over that. would also add that the code states what the code states so that if you grant the conditional use permit this evening and it turns out that there's a violation of the code whether it's noise or what let's say he expands his use beyond what was allowed by the CU or he changes his use beyond what was allowed by the C that would be grounds for a possible revocation process and there's a procedure that statute provides for how to do that it's a public hearing it's the same old notice opportunity to be heard and it's review at that point in time. He has to abide by the code based on what it states. So if there's proof after the fact that he doesn't there's a way to address that and he knows that so far the only thing I can find this is the zoning code is not specific to districts says noise activity in any district shall produce a sound level outside its premises that exceeds the following and the highest end is 72 dB. All noise shall be muffled or otherwise controlled to not become objectionable due to intermittent duration, beat frequency, impulse character, periodic character, or shrillness. Sirens, whistles, bells, which are maintained and utilized solely to serve public purposes are exempt from these suble standards. It's the only thing I've been able to find so far in the code anywhere related to

there. It's really wrapped and it took a long time to I wish I would have printed it off, but there's a section in there that shows the time the time period that noise decimals can be. I did go and purchase noise decimal readers and I will put them on the fence line. I but I don't want to I I wasn't going to suggest that until somebody else did. But I did spend $2,000 on these noise decimal readers, and I've been running them before this meeting happened. They're not the I can't come here legally and tell you what it is, but the loudest decimal past 8:00 was 72. And when we had this conversation before, there was a a lady that spoke, I can hear my neighbor across the street talk, correct? But what's the decimal at? You know, you can it's it sounds like I'm being just cold on it, but you can hear I we can hear in this conversation now. Is this loud in here or you know, it's it's it's hard in that area. We can hear all kinds of noises, but is it above what the the decibb are? And I haven't gotten any readings that above that, but I can't legally put that out there cuz I'm not a, you know, I bought these things offline and this is what they record 24 hours a day and I haven't seen anything above it. I mean, I'm not trying to be a bad person. I'm trying to do this right. That's why I put the sound trailers to mitigate. I bought new trailers, licensed them, did everything I can. I mean, who goes and spuns that kind of stuff just to try to make things right? I think the planner can comment on this as well. If the applicant's provided information, then he's got desk scores at property line that indicate 72 or less. There isn't any evidence that's been presented this evening that shows

that there's been a violation. And if the commission is familiar with the CUP process, you got to have substantial evidence and it can't be based on speculation. So anything here this evening that's been provided that's not frankly what the applicant just provided is is speculation because there isn't any quantitative data and frankly you could honestly take his remarks to some point be a speculatory remark. This is also a recommending body not making the final decision. substantial evidence can be done during the final approval of the village board. How? So this body is making a recommendation for recommended.

So discussion tonight can still lead to substantial evidence if elements can be brought during the final decision. So it's not like the end will be all if no substantial evidence is done right now here tonight. This isn't final approval. So there just be can be evidence that's just slowly provided all the way until this final approval. Is that what you're suggesting? The village board has the opportunity to make recommendations, conditions and and evidence during their final decision. Correct. Based on based on the record that's been presented, correct? That's what I'm saying. So yes, after tonight's there could be somebody wanted to provide evidence of noise, they could, but you're right. It has to be substantial evidence. But this body is not the final decision making on that. So just because it's not prevented tonight, it doesn't mean

right it couldn't be done. The cup doesn't mean everything that is delivered and that under CUP has to be formally approved or I should say be approved. It can't be changed in committee or at the village board where they're looking at everything. Just because this is what's being presented as as the the property owner's option doesn't mean it can't be amended or changed by the commission or the village board. Understood. The statute says if you meet the terms of the ordinance, you get the CUP. If you're willing to meet reasonable conditions, those reasonable conditions are not stated in the ordinance.

If there are reasonable conditions with substantial evidence provided, that can be part of the records. Perfect example of that is following the noise ordinance, which the client my client has said you can do. That can be a condition. He'll follow the noise ordinance. all the I'll be here.

I don't know what is your But do we need to do with the with the statement that was made that Ben made some kind of approval? Do we need to do we need to verify that either way before we can even move forward or something? I don't know that that changes what because if he did somehow if there if they do find some kind of email that says he did say they could go ahead and operate out of there with whatever condition or vice versa. We don't really that's what's being brought to us or no we're just addressing a conditional.

Okay. All right. I just wonder we have nothing to do with his previous occupancy permit or Okay. I don't really think that Ben would have the authority permission to make that situation about this this body. Yeah. Sometimes you guys say, "Oh, okay. But listen to Bridget and Ben afterwards and then we can give them the final go ahead." That's after you say, "Okay, as long as you listen to the body first." Yes. Yeah. We never never recommended approval by the board regardless what we told them. It needed to come through here first,

right? And then the board So if Ben did give him permission or didn't give him permission, what really difference is that tonight? None. So I mean a lot of this stuff is just a moot point and we're just beating this thing to death.

Well, I mean we're just It's hard. I understand. And I I agree 100%. I want to we want to get, you know, do the right thing here. But we we we're going round and round with certain things that don't matter. In my opinion, the the two biggest issues here are the hours that the trucks are idling and two is the noise. And if the noise ordinance ordinance says you can't produce a noise above the 72 outside your premises, then if they're violating that, that's that's an ordinance enforcement issue, not a CG issue. I agree.

Um the hours operation I do think is a concern with with trucks idling in the winter being that it's, you know, outside what's considered normal business hours for the Iowa district. I think that should be addressed as a condition. the the you know basically the 24-hour permission I don't think is is something that you know the neighbors you know should have to deal with if that's not under the zoning code as a permitted hours. Is there anything Andy that you're willing to compromise on as far as hours or is it not is that not

Well I mean a compromise to an to an extent. I I mean the 24 hours we throw it in there because coming and going and we took that out of there when we did this uh last application we changed the hours to uh from 4:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. and then Saturday from 4:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. I mean we took the 24 hours out of it with the exemption of an emergency call of of use or unusual business hours in the winter. Half my company we do paving and asphalt. So my company is cut in half with staff. So trucks shouldn't I shouldn't have many trucks outside idling the size of my facility. The whole point of this was to keep everything inside the trucks that are going to be running. I'm not going to say every single one of them, but most of them all will be parked inside. So I'm trying to eliminate all the um time of idle cuz one, it's expensive, and two, I I don't obviously want to make noise if I don't have to. Um, I have block heaters plugged in, so the trucks aren't starting instant cold. They go on I mean all the all my trucks we've been for the last 2 months and my I wish my employees I wanted some of my employees to come but they're not village residents. I want I wanted them to tell you guys how strict I am on these guys about quietness like no impacts after 7:00. Like you guys respect the neighborhood. Do as much as you possibly can. And these guys, I I tell them religiously and they know that. And I, like I said, I'm just trying to do everything kind of make this quiet as best I can. I mean, I understand trucking is a nuisance. It always is, no matter what area you go to. But it's a passion of mine. It's something that this community was always had. I mean, Big Ben's a trucking community for a long, long, long time. And that's, you know, kind of why I wanted to have roots here.

I've always thought it was all right to an extent. So, I mean, I I'm not trying to run, like I said, I'm not trying to run 24 hours with the exception of the outside normal business hours, the 4:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. And I don't know what else to compromise. Took a lot of hours out of there. Do we need to address anything in the conditional use grant about noise or does that just fall back on the village ordinance?

I would I would ask to add a item H that is to reference the 16.24 24 app is what I looked up in the ordinance that at least as a reference that that is the agreed upon noise level. We have a number 72 was the high yeah 72 dB at the lowest frequency. Yeah 75 and then 16.24 to perform performance standards item noise number one. You got that?

Yep. Thanks. We'll add every condition, right? That

Yeah, I was the same one that you referenced there. It's not necessarily a new condition. It's just referencing the only thing like when I had uh the guy come out to demonstrate all these sound decimal readers was the night that one of the other repair businesses was operating and they're backing up and obviously my demonstrator is picking up that. The my only question is how do I differentiate who's going through who you don't you know that's my only question. I just want to be open with that because these things do pick up everything and I

you know and I just want to I just want there to be you know if there's an occasional spike on there or something that it's not I don't want the gun pointed at me, you know. I think that's that would become an issue on the enforcement side of having the correct evidence to enforce the ordinance. Okay. If there was going to be a PSS, I understand where you're coming from that there are other trucks. Amazon has backup alarms on every one of their vans. And I understand your point. It's just this addresses it to the the neighbors that you are going to have to comply with whatever the ordinance has in it as far as noise.

Yes, sir. Remember, noise is not a cumulative effect. Noise A= B doesn't equal noise C. the loudest noise overrides. That's how noise works.

His argument is was it his noise or the other property's noise? It's a valid argument. So again, because he was saying like they would have to come out and then supporting it was your noise that caused it. But if it's a continuous I guess my feeling is if there's a continuous complaint of noise and somebody's going to investigate that noise then it would be you have readings they have readings and you you hash out whose readings are right or what proper responsible noise and that's that's what I think would be fair to the residents that they don't have you know conversation is 60 dB you know a loud conversation is 60 dB while a jackhammer is 120 and I you know that's that's I where it come from. Is that just the application of of the cell?

I think some place along the line it's missing that this this property is up against a residential neighborhood. Like it or not, those two have been pulling signs for many many years. There has not been noise like this at that property ever. Not the 33 years I've been there. If he's not going to make any any concession to the fact that there's neighbors next door that are living in houses, then what's the point? I understand. And if we're not going to do that, like I said,

I got I got a question. Maybe this is stupid. Has there been any complaints prior to my new application? Even though I've been operating out of the north parcel until this until I bought this south parcel. Does anybody know if there's been any complaint? I'm being serious. Is there any complaints to the north parcel? I had had a couple back when I was village president along in the very beginning, but it came from one resident that kept calling calling calling calling. complaint's a complaint with

but it was it wasn't a legitimate complaint and that's what they figured out at the time. it was a legitimate complaint to the resident and you know I I have to feel those or you know whoever they call has to feel those and take them under consideration and find out if they're working within their hours of operation and all of that and you're not violating you know your site plan of operations and at that time we were within compliance right and and our hands were tied we couldn't you know you you were allowed to do what you were doing

so my point is Everything prior to this, meaning before this building, I've been doing the same thing to the property to the north. Been operating, doing the same exact thing. And now I have a property to the south that I just want to occupy by myself. And now it's everything's an uproar. And I guess I I just that's why I'm that's exactly what I said earlier. And that's why I'm like so go back to the north and continue. But what I'm getting at is now all of a sudden it's the properties are still there. are still adjacent the residential properties at the north parcel or the south. But now it's a problem.

The north parcel has no home within 150 ft of the lot line. The north parcel there plus the fact that between between the north parcel and the lot line all there is a driveway and a big building is on the other side. Every every lot that's on the north along the north line is probably 150 the buildings are probably 150 ft away from the plot line. Not 50. I'm a quarter mile away. I can still hear you. You know, it's I get I would say

I mean I can hear the beeper on the DPW front end loader when he backs up at my house. So is that what we're going to talk about? You know, I'm just saying noise travels and you know, I I I get it. Winter is worse than the summer. You know, if we decide to not approve this, Andy can go back to the north lot and just keep doing business there and have 30 trucks coming in and out of that tiny lot and making noise even longer, you know, and more because he's going to need more guys to work out of a smaller area. He doesn't have a wash bay on the north side. I have one more question.

Yeah, she that's a problem, too.

One more question for the applicant. As far as your extended hours, uh the activities that you want to do before the I1 to 7:00 p.m. The 5 a.m. is the restriction. What activities are you looking to do outside those I1 permitted hours? Most mostly would be just leaving and the occasional pulling a truck inside the building to do maintenance on our own trucks would be the the the work inside the mowers or outside the mowers. I guess my point is as as like a concession, would you accept a condition that any work other than moving trucks in and out of the property or in and out of the building on the property, any other activity that would make noise, would would you accept that as a restriction outside of that 700 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. or

7 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. restriction? I I guess I'm not really cuz that's the only noise we make is the truck's coming and going. You know, that's the only noise that we're we're not So you're not you're not washing a truck at 10 o'clock at night. I guess that's what my thing is. If you would accept a restriction or a condition that says other than you know we have to accept the backup alarm other than moving trucks on the property then, you know, no other activity that that could make noise. Yeah. As long as I can move as long as I can move the trucks on the property, facilitate maintenance and, you know, move around or leave as I need to. That's that's all the noise that we be doing. You said all the maintenance is done inside.

Every everything. That's why this facility is awesome because I can park everything inside. I can pull a tractor trailer in. My other facility, I used to have to work outside, impacts, all kinds of noise outside. This I contain everything inside. And you do have the overhead doors closed between 11 and 6. Correct. So it's would be I would add a condition to the hours of operation that the only permitted outdoor operations after the 7:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. would be just for the moving of equipment. Trust. That's fine. No. This has to occur inside.

Correct. I think that's a good start to try to find some kind of confidence because we're I think we're covering the the biggest concern with the issues, the noise of being too loud. Yeah. And then the noise of the trucks idling and or you know sitting there for an hour

type of thing. And I understand your point, block heaters and and keep your idle times to a minimum. Um, and if you're within your, you know, I mean, we've even had it where we've been parking trucks on the north parcel if they have to leave, you know, trying to park them as far as away as possible. I mean, we are undergoing everything we possibly can, but I just trying to do what we can to occupy, you know, keep everybody happy. I I would say that uh the the business owners acted in good faith. He's a outstanding member of the community. So am I.

I I understand. I would say that with the conditions that were added to include the hours and the noise, um I would make a motion to approve the permits with the with the changes that we just added. Yes. Changes and restrictions and correct recommendations from the engineering planner. Yes, sir. I'll second. Any further discussion? All in favor I opposed. Motion carries. Can I move along?

Thank you. I appreciate you guys. Yeah. Um item A review discussion and possible action site plan of operations for Cyber Solutions. General office usage of light manufacturing starts out of the existing industrial building at West 224 South 8460 industrial drive. Charles Everett Avenue and Tax Key BBV 206844 owner Minor Investments LLC Dan Miner property is zoned I1 light industrial.

Okay. uh applicant is looking to move into a existing lease unit industrial building. Um they do you know by appointment only office space. So they don't anticipate about one or two people uh on site during their hours of operation. They haven't listed their hours of operation is relatively uh broad the 7 a.m. excuse me 8 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. 7 days a week and it is because it is kind of consultation when they do have someone in the site. Uh most of the work is obviously done um off-site, otherwise outside of that. Pretty straightforward plan of operation request makes a lot of sense given the the unit it's going in minimal impact on that area. Again, only the one full-time employee the operator of the business.

No, I've got nothing at all. and then uh took over for the parking, which is the only thing I was really reviewing on these. He said he didn't want my one one sentence one of those anymore. Fair enough. If you guys did have any questions, I took the gentleman's phone number. We can call Okay. I was wondering if that was the party that left. Yeah, he's diabetic and was tanky, so Oh, good. Yeah, this one looks pretty straightforward. Yeah, I agree.

I'll make a motion to approve this one based on the recommendations from planner and engineer. A motion in a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. 4B. Review discussion of possible action of signed request for ideal windows at west 231 South 7680 Midband Drive. Ideal core Holdings applicant passing BBB 206099. Owner rest in Rail Investments LLC property is zoned B4 Highway District.

Thank you. Applicants requesting new 4x9 36 ft 8ft tall sign. Um, as you can see on the aerial in your staff report, there was a prior sign that was basically across the property line. Uh, newly proposed sign is proposed to be a 10 and 1/2 ft behind the property line. So, kind of an improvement over what had been there previously. Um, fully code compliant makes a lot of sense given the area and again is a improvement over what was previously there. Um, planner did note just a couple of things to consider um, related to landscaping. I did not see if a landscape plan was provided around the code, but um commission could and can consider if they want any uh plantings around that sign and that can I can kind of speak to if they do plan on putting any around it. And then given that is a lit sign um you know is there anything that they would be concerned with with the lighting and would a potentially 11 p.m. typical cut off time make sense for it just given that try to reduce some of that light trespassing.

I do have one question on the is something that in the industry I work in there's a lot of people that complain about the light intensity or the brightness adjustment. There is no quality as far as how dim or how bright our own sign at night when they're using the lights is extremely bright to people especially since across the street residences that have backyards and in the summer the tree light is there but in the winter there's nothing blocking that. I don't think there's a resident with an eye shot at this side,

isn't there? On the other side of drive their backyard space. [Music] This is saying 300 soft, right? That's what I was saying. It's saying the color, but it's not saying I think we put something as far as like a brightness level 20T. make it so that whoever does the program understands that the operator has to be. Can we do that to the building inspector to

I don't think there's anything in the ordinance as far as that. That's what the argument is with the sign programming the signs is they let the property owner have free reign on how to put on the sign and they just crank it up. Yeah. The only condition that we had originally had in there was that condition number three, internal illumination with a light temperature of three indicator equivalent, right? We're trying to get to a similar space UI. Yeah, that's a that's a color which is we don't have the bright blues and the gray whites. It's just that to put a I mean actual light

at night. These things do not need to be bright at all. You can see them for quite a distance at at you know 10 minutes. Um, so it's the it's the you know the bright flashy side that's going to be you know that distracting or that yeah we can add right into that condition. I just think to put it in tradition that you know we put a light level there that's measured you know 20 foot candles at 20 ft or 30 foot candles at 20 ft just so that if somebody does complain you have something

gives you a little more enforcement ability it's necessary I don't have any objections Anybody else?

I did meeting today. I did. Is he here? They're all here. Okay. But I also talked to Will, our new engineer. Um, and he said that he'll be here at the meeting on November 6th for the board meeting and that he'd be willing to meet with them before then. Okay. Before the meeting. So, do you want to talk to them tonight or do you want to wait? They said they could come at 5:30 on the 6th. Um, sorry. No, it's fine. I was wondering if we were here. We were running late. Been waiting. Yeah.

Yeah, that's it. That's fine. Let's do a consultative session beforehand. 5:30. Yeah. Okay. On November 6th here. Yes. Do we? Yeah. Do you you know about that or No, we should. That's focus. Okay. Right. Thank you. It's not It's a off office off the side conversation. Yes. Any more discussion or questions? No, I'm good at this. Uh I'll make a motion to approve with the amended number three from the staff recommendation. So what I guess just so I get off the number then

I would say 30 foot candles at at 20 ft would be at at during the at night with no other stream. Okay. So we'll do 30 foot candle at 20 ft between 11 p.m. and sunrise. Yeah, I'll update that. I'll second. Just want to make sure I had it right. Any further discussion? All in favor?

I opposed. Motion carries. Item 4C. Review discussion and possible recommendation on preliminary plat for Bordeaux Fields for a proposed new residential subdivision resulting in 16 lots plus two outlots at least 26,000 square ft in size each. This property is located on the north side of Henbury Avenue approximately 500 ft west of Oak Range. I'm currently vacant property tax BBV 21112998004 owner of Castle View LLC. Lot size is approximately 13.1 acres and the property is zoned R3 single family residential.

Pass 910 is coming forward. Uh this property was previously subdivided. Um never been fully developed. They're looking to now kind of redo that subdivision with a new preliminary plant. Again, this is only preliminary plant. So, we'll have to come back through that process. Um looking to create 16 single family lots with two outlots. Uh new access point provided. Um the lots are on the R3 district as proposed. They meet the the standard ordinance requirements. 20,000 foot lots, 100 feet of lot frontage. Um really it's just kind of replatting this over what was previous done. no longer a through street. Um they are um expecting or asking for a subdivision variance as it relates to culde-sac length. Um the proposed culdeac is longer than the village requirement. Now I can't find in my report what it is.

800 ft over 1200. Yeah, 1200. And in reviewing this and looking 1,200 and 1500 are frequently what we see in a lot of community ordinances for culdeac line. The village does have a little shorter maximum call sack length than a lot of ordinances we see around the communities. So 1,200 is not necessarily out of the norm. I don't expect in the ordinance here, but just to give some perspective to kind of the area. I'm sure you can speak to that. You probably see that long and that's came up before in prior consultative sessions with planning. So we have already talked through that issue.

Well, there you go. So I mean otherwise largely, you know, from our perspective, you know, we have some comments in here for you. the engineer does as well. But much larger, I think it makes a lot of sense just given the area and given the some of the cross jurisdictional issues you get into with the prior road heading to the east going into the village of Vernon. Probably makes sense for this to be a standalone subdivision with

I've got two please.

I got two little ones all about wetlands. Uh the final plot just needs to have the date of the um of the wetlands delineation on there. I know it's recent. I would rather grossly among the report. Um and also we talked about putting in an easement or well first I suggested shortening lots but that means that you get to sell less land. So then I was like, how about an easement that shows the setback from the wetlands because we've had uh in the village we've had people fill in wetlands before and that's illegal and I want to prevent people from saying that. Um so an easement with including the 10-ft setback from the delineated report. Um if we put that on the final, I'm more than fine with that. Um just want to make sure that's a condition from me agreeing with approving this. like Michelle setback in the flat we don't have it

as like a conservancy ement or something. Yeah. Yeah. Because the the setback is good and important but um to show that they it's easier to um dock them for building on an easement than it is to dock them for building on a setback and the village standpoint. the DNR could come out and do it, but I would love for future engineers to be able to handle that in house. It's wafer even those like concerns are just to help.

Yeah. And you guys said it was a little I just assumed that you were to get it on the final plat. So I just put it in the comments. Um that was from our our meeting since the last plantation. That's all I got. Looks great. Leo Lane. Yes. So that's the I'd like to call it legal lane. Is there anything I need to do for that?

No, you just register the addresses with um the county. Um because they are the they are the presiding address. Sometime it's different everywhere, but for us it's the county. And um I don't know about changing addresses. Like for the folks that already live there, they must have hennes. So So if they have henberry addresses, is there a way in order for uh bills here in order for clarifying for uh EMS? Yes. Can we change the addresses to ask them to be Leo Lane now because they will be on?

We did that up in Guthri State. that might have to be a part of your conversation with the existing residents. Sorry, jumping. Um, and I I think it's just for safety sake, but that's a good point because there needs to be a communication to those guys. I already talked to everyone in the neighbors, told them that I will be uh quickly beating them all property because we are moving the road further to the east. So, uh, they're getting 3.18.19 and 004 acres. And I'll talk to each one of the property owners about that. Talk to my attorney about that for a quick meeting to them. And I saw your sliver for the shed. Yes.

So that's good. There's there's one existing resident who built off of their property and Dan is giving them that so they don't have to tear it down. 3 acres for that one. Three for a No, not just a shed. The shed slitter and moving the road. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was like that's a big shed. I did not see that on a plus two out lots. I'm giving away 1.84 acres. Yeah. Um in here I did see curb and gutter and sidewalks. Ripple Brook does not have any of that. Right. I I um that is a consideration for the plan commission. I

I don't I don't want to put a sidewalk in nowhere. I mean, if I were making a renovation to all you right now, sidewalk to nowhere doesn't help anybody. Yeah, I I wouldn't say it's okay to straight. Yeah, cuz my planner hat says if you never put the first one in, how do you get the next one? But I still agree. No, there's nohere. I don't think I put on I mean I could see curve as far as maintaining asphalt, but that's a preference. Not as long as your hands on the road, you should be fine. P was asked for we would like to see developments in the future. Um but that is also from our previous DPW.

Yeah. No, we have not last couple subdivisions I've been involved with on planning, we've never required that. Okay. So, let's mix it. Yeah, I would I would straight. I mean, we want eventually a a pedestrian safe place for our residents, right? But it's a sidewalk to nowhere isn't especially cold with Yeah. There's where where would they go? Mhm. Okay. Don't let's not worry about it then. So just the sidewalk portion of that curb and gutter curb the sidewalk. I like I like curb and gutter but to we have to have some reason why we're doing it here and not there is my would be my recommendation to

I mean I understand the DOT's the previous DPW preferring it it protects the edge of your road it helps the edge of the road shoulder maintenance because you don't have to do shoulder What is the shelter? Two feet or 3 ft? I don't know off the top of my head. I'll look further into that one. Um, I did have a realtor sign made of 4T by 8T not illuminated. I don't have to worry about that. Is that's something I can put up? Well, a map of this with my contact information. Literally this map with my contact information. It says Bordeaux fields above it. Yep. sub typical subdivision sale.

Can it get it go through all the way through the board first and then maybe don't do it until don't doesn't this go to the board next to approve the preliminary platin? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just saying maybe don't put it up in case someone on there has a problem. I don't literally the preliminary plat name and number I don't give approval so I give recommendations. [Music] Okay, admit it. You guys are going to miss my stats a little bit. So, wait until after November 6th. That's That's what I would do if I were you. Yeah. I mean, I would eat.

I'd be even more rich person. I would wait till Chuck County approves the plary plan as well or at least gives you review comments, but which is when have you submitted it to the DL is going to happen after this gets approved? Yeah. you're fine probably do it without, but like I said, you always take a little bit of additional risk if you don't even if you don't have the DOE approval because even listing the properties, it takes two months to close on property. So,

I get planning on not having anything closed until January, but I'll get some approval there. I also plan to not list lot one and lot two until after the road is at least gravel based otherwise it locks off those four properties from Perry.

Thank you. Um, and then there's a stipulation of $2,000 per lot to go towards for purposes of parkland creation dedicating parkland as part of no that's considered differentation. I had a question on that as far as who put that in there. Was that engineer or planner?

I would say because it was attorney that came from No, it would have come from there's no way and these were recommended because in the email it said that he was unable to make the attorney's comments before. I recommended. Yeah, I see what you're saying there. Yeah. And so when the engineer comments that he has in there is not from me. They're not your final comments. No, I I didn't say those things. I think Ben was trying to help me out maybe. Um but Oh, we said notable items typically addressed. Yeah.

Yeah. Notable items typically addressed. So this is me. I thought that you were saying that I said cover and I was like, "Oh, oh my god, what? I must have carried that over from somewhere." Um, sorry. So, I don't have to pay $2,000 per lot. I don't know what that is. Uh, I got to look at what this section 1417 addresses the need for $2,000 per lot created to get in to the village of Big Ben for purposes of parkland creation in lie of dedicating parkland as a part of subdivision. So if it is subject ordinance requirement 14

14 141 141 so can I ask a question while he's pulling that up um how your engineers doing they working on the set of plans you Oh yeah you're surveyors and engineers I'm sorry yeah that's all right Um, I'm bringing a minute. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry for a minute. I completely forgot. How's your plan set coming? Do you know when you're thinking of submitting? Um, it's a busy time, so no judgment here. Yeah. Uh, well, we wanted to get the preliminary plan

for sure. Hope. Um, but we're finalizing the I mean, obviously we'll have to laid it out. Are you thinking we're trying to submit for because I think the deadline passes for the November meeting before the meeting. I mean this is what's posted on the website to submit details or to submit plans to be reviewed for a certain meeting you have to have them in by the date that's on the website and the website says without approval what's going on

like I don't know what to do about that like if you submit them like when do we want to say because we have to have adequate time to review so we're saying that they can't submit Next one. Sorry. Back to the other question and I I can build this. You found that. So it starts in 14106. Correct.

The amount of land to be provided. So there is a dedic there is a required essentially parkland dedication within the village ordinance as determined by the board. It says the amount of land to be provided should be determined on the basis of amount of land equal to and provided for the value of $2,000 per residential lot creating the sub in the division the land. So essentially if you're not dedicating land was you are not dedicating any parkland right I'm dedicating two outlets that are wetland parkland sorry

yeah so then the alternative is 1417 the village board determined that such dedication is not feasible so if the village board decides you don't want to give us parkland we'll take a fee in lie of then it is $2,000 per lot that is the fee in lie of land dedication Do you know what the previous subdivision across the street did? Do they have a park? I have no idea. They don't have a park. I know that. I don't know about the specifics of their dedications. But the the pond can't no one can no one can walk through the pond. It's not supposed to be for three feet.

My kid literally today said he wanted to swim in my pond. You don't want to, buddy. It's really close. Yeah.

Who do I talk to about that? Find out more about that about parkland dedication. So you do it at village board because village board is the one that has to accept the fee in lie of. So the village board during their review of the primary plat will have to accept and allow you to pay the fee instead of dedicating the appropriate amount of land. Right? I said the ordinance basically says you either dedicate land or the village board approves you to pay $2,000 per lot instead. And then it does say payment may be made in a lump sum or 50% paid at the time of PLA approval and the balance be paid within one year such deferred payments to be guaranteed by letters of credit mortgage or cash bonds. So basically I would look at section 14107.

Yeah. Good. And on that too cash bonds versus letter of credit is saying and attorney is saying that whatever one that didn't cost me would be better. The I I've only operated with letters of credit. If the attorney gives his blessing to go otherwise I'm fine with that. Um, but Mike Shber said he wanted letter credit too, right? He said either. He said either in his email. Oh, okay. I I must have misread that. If he said either, then I think that um path of least resistance path of least resistance wants more expensive letter cost you more.

Yes. And then dealing with the banker on that. He just wants me to go through their insurance rep for it. And now I've actually gotten my numbers on both the from the gravel guy and they're doing the ponds as well as the road company Wolf Paving initially and they initially had their numbers for it at 1,600T length road which is now going to be 1,200t length. Uh basically all my numbers came out $400,000. Um what I was initially told the road itself. Wow. What are you going to do with $400,000? go up five x bordo fields by bordeau more land.

Yeah. And then whenever you have all those numbers compiled, you can just send to me and I can make sure you didn't put in a penny for, you know, a ton of gravel. And then if I agree with that stuff, he told me he already budgeted out 90 truckloads for the road. Uh 25 for extra and like another 40 for the whole set. You got a 22 foot pavement. 24T road. 24 foot road by 20. There it is. 1,200. I'm going to do some math. This isn't important to you guys. 90 truckloads, 16 for the bulb, and 20 extra. So,

I I would like to talk about their submission for next next time. Um I have no idea. thought you were over submission for their final plan or for um I'm talking about their next step is going to be engineering plans, right? Village forward. I'm sorry. Um so if the plan commission I mean so elephant in the room we're not going to be here much longer. So do we want me to review these plans or do we want Willheim to review these plans? What's the timing on the contract change? End of the year.

I'm not doing uh anything for the December 18th meeting. I um I'm not going to be here for December 18th meeting. Then I would say we should probably have Will start with that. And Will and I know each other very well and I will continue to coordinate with him. I'm not I don't want to, you know, lead you guys to sink or swim, but Will Will's a great guy. Uh Will Hine is with Cedar Corps and he was previously with ATI uh who also worked with the village and is very familiar and also I talked to him and he's familiar with your project. If you need any help with this transfer I'm more than happy to but you're going to be in great hands. Sounds good. I'll send you his email.

He's a good guy. Any more recommendations or questions? We're striking all instances of curb and gutter side. So I'll make a recommendation to move this to board for approval of the preliminary class. Second. Any further discussion? Will this be out on the November 6th meeting or do I have to get president approval?

I would hope so. That's usually how it works. I mean, we Yeah, that's why we need forum. So, that's what I was going to have to fill out for for village board. We just pass it. It's a continuation of the hoping.

And then once that is approved by them, which you said properly, the board, if the commission approves it, they approve it. Will I then be able to list the sale pl [Music] attorney? He said that provided it was flatted off and they had said that they're not going to be changing the plat. Once the county approved the GS, the countyy's going to approve the plan department. I think his point is that you can start advertising a lot. You wouldn't close that quick so that you would have time to wait for the county official response. Trying to generate interest.

Yeah. Yeah. I just want to Is there anything in this code for subdivision sign there's looking at the sign just to see cuz you had said

not for that the clerk and I looked extensively at that before I actually dug that um cuz I placed it I marked my spot 33 ft from Henberry 33 ft from center line of legal lane and then pushed it back a couple feet from that there There was no ordinance. There was a 2010 ordinance. There was no current ordinance for signage for residential use. There was some on industrial, some restricting the square footage to 16 ft square foot, which my permanent sign that I'm having made is 3T x 5T oval metal that says Bordeaux Fields that'll hang from my permanently erected 4x4 post. But this is just a temporary 4 foot by 8 foot realtor selling sign that's literally flat.

Just double checking for you. Temporary. It's like a corugated plastic. temporary temporary events and some of the verbiage said 30-day max and stuff and we looked into it and we also talked to Jason and he didn't have any he didn't need to go out to watch me digging the holes or anything. He didn't care. Did you call? I I interrupted here. There's nothing there. Yeah, we have a motion and a second on the floor still. Yeah,

I'm going to call the vote. All in favor? I opposed. And then I abstain. Motion carries. 5. You said you I can't vote on this one. No. Uh 5 or no vote. I was going to say I hope we're keeping track at least not part of the vote. Right. Right. Yeah. So he didn't vote on the last three board any the last three after. So this one

has been the vote on every two five on this one. 60 on the other one's correct vote cuz Dan voted. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Moving along. Planners report number one. Awesome. Bill, a fire inspector report section that's still going on yet. Probably go on till complete of the year and uh we had a tractor and uh truck pull that was very successful. Awesome. That was good. Glad to have our last event for a year. We won't hear nothing anything till we get to the fish fry, right?

Fish fry in the spring. Yes, we have that set up. Right. Awesome. Okay, that's all it does. Anybody got any questions for me? Any complaints? If you do have anything with us all the time, the what? I just appreciate that you spend your night with us all the time. Well, you sleeping the whole night. Oh, you got to call you out like that. I would let you know. All right. We got no building inspectors report, I'm assuming. Report.

Short and sweet. I don't have too much. I'm working on a few things. There's There's some houses. are the things I've been directing towards Will. It is long term. I don't want to start something and then have Will try to figure out where I was or what I was doing. Uh also, as a quick note, I enjoyed working with all of you. And if you need help finding anything for my files that I send over, please let me know. I will not just hang up on you. No hard feelings. Appreciate that. Yeah, I will be here next month. I will not be here for the December meeting. Um if there's anything important that we need to carry over, I can have someone come for me, but Excellent. You too.

Yeah, it's been great. Been fun. We had a lot of good memories. Yeah. To make a motion. I'll make that motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Um, this is a list of the speakers from tonight. This is a copy, right? I want to make sure it's not there. She's going to leave the original.

All right. Good. Okay, I'm glad. Um, but all I need is the public stuff. I need to go. That's it. So, I'll talk to the guy. He'll give me those cards. So, these things should make them run and Monday. Monday. Yeah. So, I'll have I think he's going to get the cards to me tomorrow. Okay.

Because we're going to try it out before the weekend. Make sure there's no glitches. you need people Crazy you guys even though I can do anything. I wasn't sure why he told me I'm not in charge.

I heard what's Mike leaned over and said you I said I took his place and said I don't need it. I quit. I just wanted I wanted you guys to know 25 years commission. Yeah. Maybe maybe he'll adjust his attitude and maybe change his mind. Oh, somebody I looked at it for a hot What do you [Music] want to make for a good