Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay folks, it's time to start the meeting. Meeting is open for the Town of Bel Air Planning Commission.

We've got some administrative items we'd like to take care of first.

Real quick, if you have a copy of the agenda, we're going to move the agenda around so we don't hold you folks up out there. We're going to do only item A on our administrative duties. Then we're going to go into new business right away. So we'll get the presentation going fairly quickly and everybody can come up and speak and not have to sit through all the administrative stuff we have to do today. With that being said, the first business is review of and approval of the minutes from the June 4th, 2026 meeting. Do we have any discussion, comments?

I have no comments.

I only had two. On the bottom of page four, the last paragraph, It says, Mr. Stram asked why they would use artificial turf in the plaza area. Mr. Robinson responded, but it don't say what that response is. Does anyone remember what that response was? I thought he said grass after we talked about it.

I think he said that if people were walking across it, not following the pathway, that the artificial turf would hold up.

Yeah, it was because of the wearing tear.

We weren't there. I thought we were pushing for the more green there. Because that's a big area. It looked like they were going to put that in. But that's one of those things we get to discuss when they come back. Okay. Yeah, we'll be revisiting that. So I'll leave that be. And then on the last page, it's kind of funny. Instead of Mr. Hines, in the last paragraph, it says Mr. Hyde. I do turn into Hyde sometimes, so I shouldn't really argue that one, I guess, but it should be Hines. That's all I had. Do I have a motion?

Mr. Chairman, I'll move that we approve the minutes of June 24, 2026, as amended.

I have a second.

Second.

Passed. Oh, I'm sorry. Roll call. Jeffrey?

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Got four ayes. Okay, so we're going to move right into new business. New business is item A. Oh, before we get started, let me go through the other stuff to let everybody know. I'm sorry. I apologize. Make sure your cell phones are on off, your ringers are off. This is being recorded. This is on YouTube. There's probably 100,000 people watching this. So we don't want to say anything that would be recorded and shouldn't be recorded in conversations. So if you could please mute that. If you need to use the bathrooms, they're down in the hall to my right and to your left, right around that little brick wall. Feel free And we'll keep keep on moving here. The first item is review a special development site plan and landscape plan for a Dunkin Donuts Jimmy John's to be located at 204 and 208 Hay Street submitted by Bel Air downtown QSR Limited license with that. I'm gonna ask Mr. Waqar I finally got his name right after many weeks to go ahead and

A grand thank you for that. Also before we begin, I would just like to remind everyone to speak into the microphone. All right, good evening Planning Commission members. I'll be presenting the site plan and landscape plan as well as a special development approval for Dunkin Donuts Jimmy John's located at 208 South Hay Street. The project involves constructing a new one-story, 3,792-square-foot restaurant with outdoor seating and drive-thru at 208 South Hay Street, otherwise known as Unsigned MD 922. The new building will result in a maximum height of 23 feet 6 inches and is set outside of all required setbacks. Additionally, the proposed development includes associated site improvements such as additional parking, sorry additional parking striping on an adjacent parcel not 1258 on site parking spaces and outdoor dining area drive through and landscape areas as part of the overall approval for the project. The development site is located in the B3A general business gateway zoning district 150 feet north west of the Baltimore Pike and South Hay Street intersection. The general area is characterized by a mix of one to two story residences and primarily comprised of one to three story commercial and government facility buildings. And the subject property currently has only one existing operational 1260 square foot building known as Green Drop located at 204 Baltimore Pike on parcel 1246 lot one. I will also need to break down the development site's five parcels. So the first one is parcel 1244. It is owned by 208 South Hay Street, LLC. The second is parcel 1246 lot one. The third is parcel 1246 lot 2 and the fourth parcel is 1245 all owned by 204 Baltimore Pike LLC and then lastly the fifth parcel is parcel 1258 owned by Santiago Management LLC. So with respect to the site plan review, the proposed principal building is positioned towards the northeastern front portion of the site, maintaining all required setbacks from South Hay Street and associated lot lines, as mentioned earlier. Most of the vehicle queuing of eight vehicles for the drive-through is proposed behind and the rear sides of the principal building towards the southeast portion of the site, effectively screened from public view and is shown to minimize visual and traffic impacts along the South Hay Street corridor. The site plan shows that inadequate on-site circulation and parking on both the east and western portions of the subject site are provided. In this current proposal, only 14 parking spaces are provided for customers and employees. With respect to the site, I will be breaking down the parking calculations for outdoor dining. So per Town of Beller code section 16551H, The requirement would be one parking space per 150 square feet or one parking space per three seats, whichever is greater. In this case, the outdoor dining area encompasses 867 square feet requiring six parking spaces or that as 20 outdoor seats are proposed, seven parking spaces are required. Additionally, per Town of Beller code section 16551H, the restaurant use parking requirement is one per three patron seats or one parking space per 100 square feet of net floor area, excluding food preparation and storage, whichever is greater. This proposed restaurant use encompasses 12 indoor seats requiring four parking spaces as well as encompasses 1,199 square feet within the common dining area and as such would require 12 parking spaces. As seven spaces are required for the outdoor dining use and as 12 parking spaces are required for the restaurant use, the applicant is to provide five additional parking spaces for a total of 19 spaces. At this time, after review of the site plan, it is recommended that the applicant address the following additional items. Number one, after review of the site plan, an existing note states SHA right-of-way dedication, parentheses, 245, sorry, 245.3 square feet, dash, yeah, dash, 0.06 acres, plus or minus width varies. Please ensure that the SHA right-of-way dedication is properly documented and included with the building permit submittal. Number two, the existing roof overhang of the green drop on parcel 1246 lot one encroaches onto adjacent parcel 1246 lot two across the shared property line. To resolve the encroachment, a perpetual cross easement for parcel 1246 lot one and parcel 1246 lot two will be required and must be formally documented through the recording of a deed reflecting the revised property boundaries. Number three, very simple one, a label for middle alley should be provided on the site plan. Number four, it's recommended that the stop bar and crosswalk at the intersection of George Street and unassigned MD 922 or South Hay Street be adjusted to improve traffic flow and intersection operations. Number five. Please include a note on the site data list that unloading and loading and servicing of refuse and recycling cannot be done between the hours of 10 a.m. and 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. when located within 500 feet of a residential district unless waived by the Planning Commission based on mitigating factors. Number six. Revise site data item number eight to read outdoor dining instead of drive-thru restaurant and note that the office uses do not have a parking requirement. Number seven, a note should be added to the plans indicating that a swinging gate with a lock is proposed between parcel 1257 and parcel 1258 and that the town of Bel Air Police Department and the Bel Air Volunteer Fire Company should be provided with a key access to the gate. Number eight, considering that parcel 1246 lot one and parcel 1260 are not part of the development site, a shared access agreement should still be established between the 711 and Green Drop site. This is necessary to accommodate vehicular circulation between the Dunkin Donuts and Jimmy John's area and the former right of way for Middle Alley. At this time, Our applicant has provided us a proposed easement and the town of Bel Air planning department is still reviewing this. Number nine, pursuant to Town of Beller code 16553I2I1D, the proposed 20 outdoor dining seats exceed the maximum permitted outdoor seating, which is limited to 75% of the 12 indoor seats required. The applicant should reduce the seating capacity from 20 seats to nine seats to comply with this code of requirement. If this reproduction is made, the applicant is only to provide six parking spaces for the outdoor dining use based upon the area calculation of the outdoor dining area. I know that was a lot. Now landscape review. So after review of the landscape plan it's recommended that the applicant address the following. So for comment number one I reviewed our landscape consultants comments and his comments specific to the street tree requirement reads a bit more clearer than what I was originally proposing. So I'm going to read that recommendation. The project development has 290 feet of frontage along South Hay Street, resulting in seven major deciduous trees required. As there is no noted overhead utilities, minor deciduous trees are not recommended. There are three minor and three major deciduous trees proposed. There is also a large gap along the frontage which does not meet the code's intent in providing a consistent landscape edge along the road. Additionally, parcel 1246 lot 1 is not part of the proposed development. However, should this change, additional street trees and buffering will be necessary. Landscape plan review comment number two, a landscape buffer of 10 feet is required along the abutting residential properties to the southwest of the site. The applicant is also proposing to comply with resolution 1119-18 by installing a six foot tall board on board vinyl fence as shown on the plans. The applicant is requesting to provide a reduced 8-foot landscape buffer in place of the 10-foot buffer required per Town of Beller code section 16559A2. Per Town of Beller code section 16559A3, the Planning Commission may approve a lesser buffer with or screening requirement based upon mitigating factors such as walls, fencing, elevation change, or existing vegetation. Number three, if the Planning Commission denies the applicant request for relief from the Town of Beller code section 16559A2 as referenced in the site plan note 13A, the site plan should be revised to increase the buffer width from 8 feet to 10 feet to comply with the code section. This was formally mentioned in the site plan recommendations, but moved to landscape recommendations. Number four, per Town of Beller Code section 16559A2, a three-foot buffer is also required for non-residential parking adjacent to a right-of-way, Baltimore Pike, US Route 1. So the recommendation is to revise parcel 1246, lot 1, to show adherence to Town of Beller Code section 16559A2, But in my review as of last week, it is determined that however as parcel 1246 lot 1 is not part of this proposed development, this recommendation is to be removed. And then number five, I'm adding this, but for number five, to clarify and delineate whether the six foot vinyl board on board fence will be installed backside of parcel 1244 at 208 South Hay Street per resolution 1119-18. Our additional landscape comments are provided by the Town of Bel Air's landscape consultant and are attached as part of this application review. Now we're going to be addressing the lighting plan review. A photometric plan has been submitted indicating illumination levels ranging from 0.0 and 7.8 foot candles of illumination across the property. Staff has no additional comments. With respect to the architecture, elevations were submitted to the Town of Bel Air's architectural consultant for review and their comments are attached in your package. While the elevations meet the district standards, Town of Bel Air Code 165-33 Point C3 requires that the proposed building occupies 60% of the street frontage. Currently, the applicant's proposed building facade is 100 feet wide, which only accounts for 50% of the 200-foot street frontage. The applicant will resolve this by proposing two decorative landscape walls each three and a half feet high and 15 feet long on either side of the site's entrance and exit. These additions increase the total street frontage coverage to approximately 65 percent meeting the town's code requirement. With respect to the subdivision plan, the applicant will complete an administrative subdivision to consolidate the two parcels following Planning Commission approval. As part of the project, approximately 245 square feet of land will be dedicated to the State Highway Administration for future roadway improvements at Baltimore Pike and South Hay Street, resulting in the final lot size of approximately 42,022 square feet, or .965 acres. The final subdivision plot including the parcel consolidation and SHA dedication will have to be recorded in the Harford County land records. So now with respect to the special development for drive-through, the performance standards requirements relative to drive-throughs are as follows. Number one, pedestrian and vehicular circulation is coordinated throughout the site. Number two, drive-through lanes are clearly marked and do not block service or emergency access. Number three, adequate spaces for the queuing of vehicles are provided. Number four, noise from ordering speakers will be limited based upon state of Maryland standards for control of noise pollution. Number five, drive through lanes are located to the rear inside of the building. With respect to special development outdoor dining service, the performance standards relative to this use are as follows. No amplified music or public address systems will be in operation between the hours of 9 p.m. and 9 a.m. No recreational games or live entertainment will be permitted between the hours of 9 p.m. and 9 a.m. Requirements of Chapter 345, Peace and Good Order of the Town of Beller Code will be adhered to during the operation of the use. Number four, the current outdoor seating area of 864 square feet is above the required 75% fire rated capacity for the principal permitted use of 1,199 square feet and there are no temporary enclosures proposed. And number five, the use is not within a shopping center and will not serve alcoholic beverages. So to conclude, At a minimum the approval of the site plan and landscape plan and special developments should be conditioned on the recommendations outlined in your application package. This concludes my presentation and I'm available for any questions.

No, no, not word for word, no. Okay, before we get to any motions or anything, we got discussion. Liz?

I got two procedural things that I want to make a record in light of Wakar's presentation. Photometric plans, you were provided that in your package. That is for your information purposes only, despite what the staff report seems to elude. The code specifically empowers the director of planning to approve. photometric plans not the planning commission so that's for your information just ignore it if you want to ask questions you can but there's no motion to do um let me see there's one other administrative thing before you get started i can't find it i'll i'm sure i'll find it uh go ahead that's all i wanted to say because i would take that right off the table thanks okay if that's in the motion we'll we'll scratch it okay

Okay, with that being said, we open it up to the staff here to make comments, questions. No, I'm sorry. We better let the applicant go first. We're going to let the applicant do his presentation, then we'll discuss items. And as repeated by Clark before, everybody, when you come up front, that microphone there, you're going to give your name and your address and what affiliation you have with this project, whether you're a public speaker or engineer or what have you. And then that recording goes to that young lady over there, so she needs to make sure it goes into the microphone. Thank you. With that being said, sir, it's all yours.

Thank you. My name is David Taylor. I'm the civil engineer and planner on this project. I'm here representing Karen Battelle with Beller Development QSR LLC. Is that correct? I always get that all mixed up. I don't want to re state everything that will car just said as far as the project but it is about point nine six five acres in size it's like it's a conglomeration of several parcels which. And. 1258. 1246. uh so we've gone through uh quite a bit of reviews with our traffic study uh and the plans and i think we've we've made a lot of good been a lot of good back and forth to arrive at the plan that we have today i appreciate what car has helped with going through all the various codes issues or state portions of the code that we have to abide by We feel that the project meets, for the most part, meets the intent of the Town of Ballard zoning code with respect to access and egress. This project is designed to be accessed off of South Hays Street. I guess we have a plan up here.

And to circulate around.

and through the drive-through we have like 18 or 19 actually stacking spaces with a double order lane emerging into one the exit will be either onto south hayes or we provided the option to circulate back parallel with south hayes and then down and out to orchard street uh our Delivery trucks will deliver the product during non-peak business hours, and it will not exit on a Hay Street. It will come in, and we have a loading zone set aside for it and a sidewalk. again during non-peak hours and then it will back up and then exit out archer street the truck will be a medium-sized truck a wb-45 we've talked to state highway obviously about this project and by the way they've they've presented a letter of approval but the truck that we're using is called a WB 45 truck and it makes all the maneuvering within it stays in its lanes coming off of South Hayes it comes in in parks and it can back up and leave at Archer so we've got that nailed down pretty good but it will not exit South Hayes State Highway and the Town of Bel Air had asked us to provide some improvements, road improvements. One of them being extending the island at the intersection with Baltimore Pike and South Hayes we have the RVs across the street. So the idea of extending the island is to prohibit people from being able to drive across, from leaving Dunkin' Donuts and trying to drive over to RVs and crossing traffic. So the extension of the island blocks that maneuver, so they can only come out and make a right and then turn onto Baltimore Pike and merge. We were also proposing, which is off the screen, uh... We've also been required right here, are for two purposes. The owner of Amita is currently using that as a parking lot. It is currently a gravel parking lot. Also, we have common ownership here, so Dunkin' Donuts has agreed, period, to improve their parking lot, which is now a gravel parking lot, and repave it. Funkin' Donuts will also bring in traffic from Archer in and out. So if parking is an issue because of the outside, we would agree to just eliminate some Two. . . . Thank you.

Where does the water and sewer come in from Archer Street? I see there's a water valve on the bottom of Archer. I was wondering if that's where you're tapping that.

There is a water valve. They tell me there's water along the concrete. So that's something in Maryland that I have to resolve. We did provide colored exhibits for the building. This was the frontage on South A. This is looking at it from the bottom of the pipe, I believe, on the side. The plan got shifted. So looking at it from the bottom of the pipe. And then these views are from the back. And you've got our seating area right here. So as I see it, there's just a few things that the town and I have to resolve, and that's landscaping. We acknowledge that there's a potential need Okay.

Panel, if we have any items you want to talk about, bring up. And we're going to get to the public. The public will have their chance to come up after we get some questions going. Yes, sir. Sure. You're part of the presentation.

Sure. My name is Kiran Patel. and I'm the franchisee for the proposed Duncan and Jimmy John's location. I'm accompanied by my wife Rashmi here and I wanted to thank the commission members to take time in town of Bel Air for numerous back and forth, providing comments and can't thank enough Kevin Small who is retired now but has spent a good amount of time with us along with the property owner with my engineer. Just to say a few words about as a franchisee because I'm not an engineer or an architect to say more things about it. I have my friend David Taylor who represents me well. We have been around in the county since 2003 onwards. And I can say as a franchisee, we have a solid relationship with numerous organizations around the county and town of Bel Air. We are proud, my personal network, I have a restaurant which is a proud winner from last three years for collecting highest number of donations across 10,000 Dunkins in the nation for Joy in Childhood Foundations. So we collected, like last year, $21,000 at our restaurants locally, which goes to Maryland kids in need. Apart from that, we support March of Dimes, Dawn Hill Autism Foundation, Ballard Police Department. We are proud partners with Hartford County Sheriff Department for community involvement, Ballard Fire Department, and we do numerous community involvement. So it will be my pleasure to serve the community in the heart of Bel Air, which have been in the foresight of our mind for many, many years, but we could not find a site, and this was one of the most difficult sites to work with. And we've been working out for this site from last past two years almost. And we still have about a year and a half, two years ahead before we can kind of start serving the community. So I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you all. And that's all from my side. Thank you.

Thank you. Comments from the staff? Questions?

I understand, you know, with regard to the property, you're combining 1244 and 1246. Some of the work extends onto parcel 1245. Some of the landscape planting, and then on, so... Can you count? Can you count landscaping, planting that's done on a piece of property that is not part of the development envelope? And I guess we'll car maybe that's a question for you guys as well.

So for the landscaping that's adjacent, that is between parcel 1258 and 1257, that is the landscape requirement for a generally for parking, commercial parking that's adjacent to residential. So a three feet buffer is generally required.

Right. What he's talking about is 1246 4545 landscape is set out on the landscape plan on the corner. And that's not really part of the development, right? That's what you're saying? Yeah.

I mean, if it if it if you say no, because it's all jointly owned by these folks, they can count it, but it's technically the way I read it. It's not part of the development envelope for the project.

Mm hmm.

yeah correct and that's where the landscape is is is that parcel owned by your group the one on the corner that he's talking about i know you're going to dedicate some of you know you're going to dedicate a strip to sha uh but i was just and i understand you know if they tell you to do it you're going to do it

but we are proposing street trees on this parcel because it is part of this project. We initially thought we might need it for a stormwater facility, but after going through the design, we were able to eliminate it, but it's still part of this project, so we are making it. It's the green drop that is not part of this project.

Okay. I guess the reason I asked the question was, you know, if it stays a separate parcel, which I guess on paper it could be sold, you know, but part of your landscaping is on that separate piece of property.

What we could do is we could do a development agreement with all of the owners specific to the landscape. Basically, I mean, two things, number one, since he's put that parcel in 1246 is subject to every requirement that you set that you guys set out to even if they change the use or try to do something else with it it would it would have to come back to you guys that was one question I had for him and putting the green drop in is do you guys want to really put the green drop in because if you put the green drop in and if they change anything they got to come back to you because it's part of the project Now what we can do is we can do the development agreement that binds everyone to keep those trees on site as part of your approval, if you want.

Well, I don't want to make it any more complicated than it needs to be.

Hey, it's already complicated. It really is. But if that's what you guys want, that's not a problem.

If it can legitimately be counted as part of the landscaping, then fine.

It's up to the owner as to whether or not, because they're all in agreement, because I think that piece is owned by the same entity. The two other pieces are, is that correct? The very corner. Yeah, where the landscape is going in. Correct. Separate parcel. Is it a separate entity? it says it's it said it's 204 Baltimore Pike LLC okay and they own two other lots that's in the project right exactly so I was wondering why they didn't combine this lot with the other two but yeah

If that happens. But right now, he's leasing this lot. This is part of his lease. So this corner lot, his lease will be leased by the governor's enemies.

So it's leased.

It's leased. Who will be maintaining everything? The right-of-way going next to Evita. I know you're going to upgrade their parking lot for them, but I take it your facilities are going to maintain that.

Dunkin' Donuts, Franchise, I'm kind of wondering if it's going to be worked out. So...

That would have to be part of the agreement.

Now, on the green drop property, it looks like you're also constructing a new retaining wall, which is to support the uh to support the the work of the new new development um yeah there's a little retaining wall out there right now it looks like you're just moving it over but it's a new one okay no it's on green draw property it's it's on the property actually moved it further one to green drop property Okay. Does that require some kind of protective easement so that

Absolutely. So he's already said that GreenDrop is not a part of this project. So if he's putting part of his improvements on GreenDrop, then you have another encroachment issue. Does that make sense? Because you have a line there and you're going over the line for this project. So it's gonna be part of at least a development agreement to say you are putting this in, it's a part of your approval, and that you guys agreed to maintain it. So if you guys put it on there, and then Green Drop just wants to rip it back out, that's, you're gonna have to come back and get their approval on what to do.

So yeah.

So they're legally okay to put

Yes, they can with the appropriate legal documentation recorded in the land records. So right now, and I have some other stuff for you guys, when you all are done your comments, I've got a development agreement for the landscape that's on the corner lot. And then I've got an easement at least an easement, I might even included on the development agreement, I'm not sure but an easement for that retaining wall on green drops.

then it looks like out of your out of your micro buyer facility number one you've got a your storm drain kind of comes out it it looks like and maybe it's just a representation that it uh it's it's right it's right on the line you know at least outside of the uh outside of the ingress egress easement and i don't know whether that's something that you know whether it's like okay you adjust it so that it doesn't so we have an existing recording Right, right, and I see that it almost looks like the, you know, with the way the pipe is positioned, it almost looks like it's just out, you know, right on the edge. Okay.

Yeah, and I saw you've got like an 18 inch that drops into a 15 inch out on Baltimore Pike. Is that just a slope and capacity issue?

The actual size of the pipe will be determined when we get into the

OK, I was just looking at what you had on the plan because it was, you know, it was just labeled as a 15. So yeah, our survey picked up a 15 Okay.

I saw the the the changes that were made at the intersection of George Street and South Hayes is is that area going to be relandscape because I know the one it doesn't show up in the landscape plan but but that little triangle area you know right now is is all planted portion of that is going to be cut off when you when you create a new intersection and then you're going to end up with an area that is paved now that won't be paved is that I'm just wondering what's going to happen there is going to be grass is going to be planted okay And then planning gets to see that again, or that's just something you take care of with State Highway?

Well, I think we plug in a town road, combining with a state road, so I think towns will look at it as well as State Highway.

Okay, okay. The landscape walls, what are they gonna look like? Is that just masonry to look like the building?

My thought is, yeah, we're trying to mimic Okay.

Yeah, because you're going to plant big trees all around them. I guess if you've got to do it to meet a requirement, I don't know that you're going to see much of that.

I think it's a requirement.

Correct.

Okay. For the turning movement coming out of the access from Evita,

Is there is there parking along Archer Street? Because I saw your I saw your your movement and it's like you're going to come right out close to the curb. I'm just wondering whether the curb should be painted yellow so that it's like okay, you know, yeah, or no parking, you know, for

And I hope they're all making right turns when they get on Archer Street, because that's going to be a nightmare. A lot of cars come out of there.

Well, I was looking at the delivery truck. Yeah.

Okay.

for for the for the parking since you've got what 14 spaces 12 are required you've got what just a couple of extra so and you get what you get three outdoor three outdoor seats for every

There's 14 spaces on the plan.

There's currently 14 spaces on the plan.

He needs 12.

He needs 12 for the restaurant use.

Okay, so he's got two extra?

He will need to actually provide five extra.

Right, but unless he redesigns the whole site, he's not going to be able to. So right now he's got two extra?

He does not have any extra. He actually has to provide a total of 19. Right now he has 14.

I guess that's what I was getting at is that you can't provide the outdoor seating the way it's shown. You could only have outdoor seating for maybe six people.

So is that- I think his option is to reduce the number of seating for the outdoor or the area for the outdoor in order to meet the parking.

So what are you guys thinking right now? Are you gonna leave the patio the way it is and just say, well, okay, we're only gonna show one table out there, or no, we're gonna change the size of the patio?

That's something we have to talk about, but if we can only have so many seats, then maybe why have such a large patio? So I think you're... But if there's... Yeah, sure.

So outdoor is not a requirement for Dunkin' Inc. We just added that because of a lot of offices around there because we walk in. But that's not a constraint. We can remove, reduce to five or six to meet the parking requirements, and we can just have the patio as it is.

Yeah, because I do not see any more space for parking unless you made a deal with your neighbors.

It is as efficient as we can possibly make it. There is one possible location, which would be right here, but State Highway likes a certain distance between the first parking space and the main road, and we're trying to honor that. But that is the only place.

Yeah, that's why in the beginning, I was asking whether you were thinking about combining 1245, which is gonna be just lawn and say, okay, I'm gonna try, you know, I'd really like to have outdoor seating. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna try to shoehorn a few more parking spaces in there so that I can so that I can keep a larger patio.

Okay.

Gotcha.

For your question about parking on Archer Street, according to my little IA Google search, permit zones east and west sides of Archer Street from its intersection with Thomas Street to a .760 feet south are parking by permit only. Baltimore Pike intersection parking is prohibited at all times on the west side of Archer Street from its intersection with Baltimore Pike for a distance of 75 feet.

So the only reason I asked was when I saw the traffic movement, it looked like they were coming really close to the curve. So if, if, yeah, anybody's parked there, it's like, okay, we're, we're kind of stuck.

Yeah. 75 feet, I'll help the trucks get out.

But if it was, you know, if the curve was painted yellow, and it's like, yeah, and it's like no parking, then then okay, there. If somebody's doing something illegal, then

mean in that regard that would that would because the parking these types of areas are regulated by the board of town commissioners so the board would have to decide to change that in light of the circumstances i don't think that the planning commission could say you gotta stop parking here it would have to come from the board because they've set these rules up

again these trucks you know you do a truck turning radius it's a computer program but the actual way they can maneuver these trucks I've seen truck drivers do what the model says they can't you know understand it's a perfect geometric model that assumes that there's no other little adjustments that he makes along the way So again, we downsized the delivery truck from what it, you know, there was a larger truck that they like to use, and this is their smaller truck, and I think it works pretty good as far as getting in and out compared to what I've seen around town.

Can I have a comment? Our food provider has indicated if the state has it down the line, use us a letter, they can reduce it to a box truck, a special provision for the box truck.

yeah there was the option of a box truck but obviously i want to design it for something larger and that's what we've done but they do they can use a box truck for deliveries

My final question was about the new lighting that you're going to put in along the new six-foot privacy fence adjacent to the residential properties. I don't think there's – I think the only lighting for the Evita lot right now or maybe wall packs on the side of the building is – I'm just wondering whether that's going to be – how much light there's going to be there. Is it going to be something that's –

adverse impact to the property owners you know you're gonna put a six foot high fence but if there are 20 foot high poles even if they're downcast lights I'm just I didn't I did not have a chance to look at your photo metric yeah it's there 18 foot poles they're directional and the photometric plan actually shows what the foot candles are just how it's dispersed car you have that on here don't you

your lighting plan here it is right here i can uh you got it yeah i just i don't know how to read it other than you know i've never seen yeah they're 18 feet high yeah i mean i see the numbers were actually larger originally they were 23 feet tall I see like you know 0.2 0.1 you know so if if the light intensity that might end up over into the adjacent residential property is is really de minimis then

Yeah, it states on the lighting plan that they have the glare shields on those poles. So hopefully that will satisfy that. Gotcha.

Yeah, that's what Carr said. We did have a dialogue with them during the process the last couple weeks to get that.

All right, that's it for me, Jim.

Okay, Peter, Peter had something.

The parking lot for a Vita and the buffer. And you said you had to stop at the at the alley. Could you explain that alley? Why did why did you have to stop the buffer at the alley? You couldn't go across the You couldn't go across the alleys.

Why did we not park in the alley?

No.

Why don't you extend the buffer between the because because there are it's intended to keep trying to keep that open for egress or for access across all the properties.

Because right now it's kind of there's a little bit of gravel there a little bit of grass and I saw it didn't really look like an alley to me.

it's got some holes it's an alley we actually we actually closed a portion of the alley and and created a cross easement agreement so that it's no longer an alley has like a has a right-of-way associated with it right so that alley was converted to cross easements we have a document it was recorded town of Bel Air reviewed it and it allows for all the properties to utilize that alley which is now easement as opposed to a right-of-way so we have a gate there so we don't want to close off access we want access to remain

I was just curious, Dave. So, in other words, folks can come in off of George Street and go up the alley and then... No.

Well, we have a gate. They got a gate there. But the gate can be unlocked if needed.

Yeah, but not for people coming in and out. Right. I think that's what he's getting at here.

The original alley will end at the gate. From the gate over to Baltimore Pike, the alley was eliminated and replaced with cross easements. But we did not want to block it off completely. So we're putting a gate there that can be shut and locked. But it can also be open in case there's a need to come in from the alley. Maybe emergency use or something. I don't know.

I think it said police department and fire department were going to get a key to that gate.

That would be the recommendation.

yeah just to clarify what he's saying no offense David just a little inarticulatively where the gate is approximately where the gate is from that gate to Baltimore Pike the town of Bel Air owned it so back in 2018 they closed the alley and then abandoned the alley, like a fee simple interest, and for all intended purposes, gave it to the adjoining property owners along that alley on both sides. So what he's talking about, the reciprocal easement, is the owners got together and decided, okay, we're gonna grant each other reciprocal easements, so you can access mine, I can access yours for vehicular pedestrian. But from the gate to George Street, that is remained open and still.

It's just not going to be part of this project.

It's not going to be a part of this project. Yeah, because all of the residences that still back up to that alley on that side of the gate still use it. And the town arguably has an interest in it. We did not abandon that part of it. So like the adjoiner, I think who's here, Mr. Brown, he can keep going. Assuming he does gain access through that alley, he can continue to do so. He can't go any further than a gate.

There's also a fence at the other side behind 7-11, too. Right behind 7-11, they put a fence up. Yes, they did.

But the 711, 208 Hays, it used to be Sowers. They all got this easement, and I did review it, and it does provide adequate rights all the way through there so they can access it back and forth. Does that make sense? Did I help explain a little bit?

Yeah. So it's a private alley.

Part of it is public and part of it is private.

All right, from George Street to the parking lot.

The first thing.

Is that private or public?

I actually have an exhibit that I can show up.

That's public. Okay.

Okay.

That's public. Yeah. You just can't get into their private.

Right, well I was gonna suggest if it's private then the sign ought to go up on George Street as you enter the alley, private.

Yeah, no, because it's owned by the town of Dallaire, arguably. Okay. Yeah, so everybody can go back.

Anybody can go back.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Yep.

Okay, that'll Peter. Yes. Okay, Gary, I know you had some. Yeah, you guys have already asked about 79% of my questions here. Daniel, you have anything? Yes, sir. Okay, I only got a few left. And my first question was a general question. Is this one big open restaurant inside of where is that what the common area means? Both of these are joined open inside a two separate buildings?

No, it's one building with a common area. It has a Dunkin' Donuts and actually in a Jimmy John's.

So I can leave Dunkin' Donuts counter and go right over to Jimmy John's counter.

Yeah, if you go into any Dunkin' Donuts, a lot of times you see ice cream, Baskin-Robbins, Dunkin' Donuts. This is a Dunkin' Donuts, Jimmy John's kind of combo.

Okay. And one of the items I know I saw, and I think it was in your notes too, Wakar, there was no mechanical shown on your elevation drawings for your air conditioning units. Any walk-ins, it might be outside, any of that. Do you plan on putting that in your final drawing when you submit it?

Oh, there'll have to be. Yeah, a full set of structural, mechanical, electrical plumbing. would be submitted to town the screening included has to be screened whatever building code requirements would have to be met yeah will it be on the rooftop uh do you know if it's on the roof or on the ground hvac yeah i mean

All right, so if it's gonna be roof mounted, it will have to be it would have to be screened from all sides that are adjacent to the public right of way. That could be sufficient.

Okay, and one other note I wanted to make, this is more for all of us. Health Department noted in there that your utilities were going to be Harford County Government Water and Waste Water, and it should be American Water Works. maryland american and the sewer goes to town of bel air which does go to harford county but it's metered through bel air so bel air would be the one service in both or the sewer and then the water would be serviced by maryland american uh let's see Oh, and there was one other note I saw in the architectures comments, and I agree with them after seeing the elevations. The front of the building that you have there, the entrance, I think he made a note about enhancing it a little bit so it looks like a regular entrance, maybe an awning there or something. Yeah. After I saw the drawing, I saw what he was talking about. It is kind of bland looking for an entrance. I mean, it should stand out a little bit. And I don't know, maybe an awning on it or something. I don't know. Something to show that it is an entrance going into the building there. And I just got one other question. What is a lily turf? I see that on this drawing in several areas. What a lily turf on the landscape landscaping. And I see it at several areas. I see it at your little sediment pond there or your stormwater pond. And I saw it along the left side of the parking area. I have no idea what that is. If Kevin was here, he would know, I'm sure. Well, I'll Google it. I just thought it would be easier just to ask you since it was on the drawing.

It's some kind of . That's general ground cover, actually. So that's general ground cover.

OK. That's all the questions I have. Anybody else on the board have anything? Okay, this is the time we get to turn it over to the public with anybody in the public like to come up and speak. Okay. Just where you got to go up to the podium, sir. So it gets recorded. You want to state your name, address, Robert Brown, and I live next door to the Santiago property.

I came here for just a few reasons. And one of them was the alley. And I see here. This is my property here but it looks like the alley is cut off before the end of my property. And I want to have rear access unless I'm reading that wrong.

So the red portion of the middle alley is the town's portion and everything behind that.

Yeah I know but why all of a sudden is my property closed off in the back? We were here for meetings earlier, a couple years ago or last year, and they had talked about selling half that alley to people that didn't fly. But I want to have your access to it. I should have your access to it.

I think that picture is showing a good

it looks like it's past your property according to this drawing the front drawing there sir if you want to go to the front drawing can you point it out to him on the drawing that you have there because I think it's easier to see on that drawing

The other concern I had, there was a property in back of mine and they took a house down. It's a San Diego property. But since they took that house down, I get a leak every time it rains on my property, from front to back. So you have to be concerned about taking care of that.

Well, they are going to put a stormwater management pond in there, and hopefully everything's graded. I don't have a grading plan, but they should have it graded to that pond, any runoff. But, yeah, that's a concern, what that is. Actually, is that from just stormwater coming down there because it's not controlled?

With the blacktop, it's only going to be worse.

That should keep it off your property. Hopefully that will work out, sir. If not, contact the town and they'll have to address it.

Oh, I know what else. Did I hear you say that all the drive-through traffic was going to come out through Archer Street? All of it?

Does that answer your question, sir? And like we said, after construction, looking at it on paper and in reality could be two different things. And it should be addressed either by them or by the town there by that alley. Thank you, sir.

Mr.

Chair I had a couple things okay so after review of the site plan a couple of things I noticed from a legal perspective that I'd recommend to the board encroachment agreement a portion of the roof of Green Drop encroaches upon the Dunkin Donuts lot it's my understanding that the property owner is willing i've heard two different stories so please by all means correct me if i'm wrong i heard that they were okay with entering in basically an easement to allow for the the overlap of the green drop building onto the dunkin donuts and then i heard he was going to solve top of the of the roof um i think it's probably better for the everybody if you just entered into an encroachment agreement and that way okay it's only it's only 10 inches okay and it's the roof it's not the actual building i mean it's part of the building but it's the roof Correct, and that's fine, but it's not a problem until it's a problem. The access easement for the back lot, the Santiago management lot, your comment says that Alveda will be granting an ingress and egress easement. That's incorrect. Alveda doesn't have the right to grant the easement. It has to come from Santiago Management LLC and benefit 208 Hay Street and LLC and 204 Baltimore Pike LLC. Does that make sense? So I would strongly, because otherwise you have no legal rights to traverse over. It's not the person who's gonna just park there. Yes, but you say Alveda will grant the easement. It's not Alveda that grants the easement, it's Santiago Management. Okay, the property owner has to grant that. You also indicated that you were intending to consolidate 208 South Hayes Street and also the adjoining property, which I think is 204 Baltimore Pike. Yeah, those two. I would strongly recommend any consolidation come with a deed. So you can consolidate, you can record a plot in the land records. You will still have two parcels as far as the state and everybody else is concerned. you know that's what my recommendation is the only thing that i am prepared to draft for the town is the development agreement for this board so i strongly suggest that your client contact an attorney because it won't move any forward forward until this is done it's not the town's responsibility to pay me to do it you guys have to do it if the board agrees with these documents having to be done is that okay didn't anybody have any questions about that

Yeah, I do. Sure. So you're suggesting you want that to be in our recommendations? Yes, absolutely. So that was a consolidation of what again please?

Consolidation of lots, parcel 1244 and 1246 lot two, is that right Mr. Taylor? Yes. Okay. So there's a lot line right now that runs right through here.

Right.

And the lot line stays there until he actually gets a deed of record to get rid of that. Deed of consolidation is what it's called, deed of consolidation.

And you said consolidate with a deed?

Yes.

Right.

Yeah, correct. That would actually give you one tax ID number, one parcel, rather than two. The plat won't do it.

Okay.

No, he said you did not want to consolidate 1245 with that, right? as far as the landscape that mr taylor um outlined is a concern with respect to the you the utility agreement or excuse me the utilities that are buried um Usually deviations from the code are requiring a variance to the Board of Appeals. However, under 165.58 entitled street trees section A. two it states treaty trees shall be planted as to not interfere with utilities and in paren buried or overhead roadway sidewalk site easements or street lights trees species location and spacing shall be approved by the planning commission as part of the landscape plan so that was a little curveball to me i did not realize that there was an issue with this So based on my reading, unless the director of planning has a different idea, who luckily is here today, it seems to me that the planning commission has the right, because basically you're kind of asking for relief, right? The landscape architect is saying, hey, you've got to put street trees along here, right? And you're saying, that's not going to work because I have utilities underneath there. Correct, but you were sort of asking for a little bit, like the landscape architect was suggesting more to the Planning Commission, which they have the power to make you do. However, you're pointing out that there is a utility that stops there. Now, my question to you, because I can't tell from the site plan, does that utility line run parallel to Hay Street? Right behind the slide wall. Okay. Okay, so it goes all the way across the front side of the property? Okay. It shows one spot, but I can't tell how far it runs. It goes across that road. Okay. So because of the fact that there's a utility buried, the Planning Commission has the right to sort of deviate from what the requirement is, unless my interpretation is incorrect. He is the god when it comes to it, not I. I...

I did want to mention that after reviewing the landscape reviewers landscape consultant reviewers comments the suggestion was only going to be seven major deciduous street trees. So based off the director's interpretation of the number that's appropriate we can proceed as such.

But am I understanding that you're saying that seven isn't going to work right. Okay. Okay, so can you do seven?

Seven major.

Major.

The landscape reviewer consultant's comments said minor deciduous trees are not recommended. So we're just going to recommend seven major deciduous trees.

That's exactly what I'm trying to get the point across, is that he's saying this is what you're requiring or what the landscape architect is saying needs to be complied with under the code. He's saying I can't do it because I have a utility running across there. The code says the trees can't be planted over top buried utilities. They have the power to deviate from what the code says and what the landscape architect is recommending based on the fact that there are utilities that are causing a problem with him providing that. So I guess he's giving you what he's saying he can do. The department is saying that doesn't comply with the code. So the planning commission has to make a determination as to what happens here. I mean, from a legal standpoint- What's your appropriate number? Exactly, we cannot disturb the utilities. So if you guys are satisfied with what the applicant has proposed in lieu thereof, then I'm telling you my interpretation, unless Michael disagrees, is you have the power to deviate from it.

Okay, so we're going to have to change the wording in our motion.

Yeah. Sorry, guys. We couldn't really resolve it.

I found the requirements, and then I found also the plan, and I read both of them, and when I got done with it, I was like, whoa.

Yeah.

We couldn't really resolve this with the applicant, and so we wanted to bring it to your attention and have the discussion, whatever you all are comfortable with, I think.

I mean, it's pretty obvious. We can't interfere with utilities there. I mean, if there was a sewer main there, we couldn't do that either.

Correct. If the comment is instead of, you know, what he's showing now is, what, six magnolias, and if he wants... seven major deciduous trees, you know, is this comment location or is it number and species?

Well, it's location.

Number of major deciduous trees, so essentially, Within the front yard setback, we can allow whatever trees can fit along the fronted strip within the front yard setback to be a total of seven. But as long as there's no interference with underground or overhead utilities.

They're not majors. I think they're minors. And that was my question. Is it species? Is it like, okay, this magnolia is not going to cut it?

yeah and see i think kevin's saying basically no it's supposed to be major straight trees you know and so you guys have to make the determination as to what he's proposed is okay well just looking at the plan with all the other shrubs trees going in i don't see where else you could put seven major trees

I really don't see where you could put them so generally I think you're limited by space the utilities kind of threw a wrench into that I mean the way I see it on the drawing and I know the area there's no utilities above there so that wasn't a concern but utilities underneath is a concern So I don't know what you're allowed to put over utilities, I guess would be the question for you guys on what you're allowed to put in there and what we're gonna require them to put in there.

So I think it's a difficult one. The other thing in talking about it with Kevin a little bit, we're not 100% sure of what the situation is with the utility underground. So I think seeing perhaps a bit more would be better. I don't know if we can fit the larger trees in that space, as you're pointing out. So do you want to provide us some guidance and them some guidance in terms of what you would like to see if this is not sufficient? It's a challenging site regardless. I mean, I like green as well as anybody.

The more the better, but we also got to use a little common sense on this one. There's some trade-offs here. I mean, my opinion is we rewrite it. where we accept what is permitted to be put there somehow in that wording because i don't think that's going to be decided right now i guess kevin's going to be the expert on that to get back to us on that so we could work with you to to add some additional trees if it's feasible to do so

. . . . . . . . . well there's a couple areas in our we have it in the site plan and the landscape area where we're gonna have to reword that

Now, do you guys, based on what Michael has said, do you guys want to approve the site plan and then table the landscape plan and see if these guys can kind of come up with a potentially suitable alternative or bring it back? Because I don't want to hold them up completely. If you guys are okay with the site plan, yeah. But at the same time,

Can we do a partial because B and C? I think we can address those.

Yeah, you can address the site plan. Absolutely.

But just table the landscape plan to get further information change the wording to say, agreement upon the developer. Yeah, what they decide is best to put there. Yeah, if you guys want to do that. It's up to you guys. You guys feel about it? Sure.

Yeah, we can make a conditional agreement to be worked out.

We can put that in our wording, I believe.

And it's, it's obvious you understand the intent. So that we just don't want concrete against the road. Yeah.

Well, I also have a question. In the lily turf area where you're showing a crepe myrtle you're showing a mix of crepe myrtle and star magnolia are you able to put a major deciduous in those locations Maybe we can explore a low-rooting major deciduous. Yeah.

Right. Now, that sidewalk becomes a town sidewalk, doesn't it?

Yeah.

Okay. So, yeah, we don't want to tear up our own sidewalk.

Well, part of it's also state as well.

Yeah, MDOT. Mainly state. Isn't that State Road 22? 922. Yeah, that becomes state property to maintain. If it deteriorates, I think they're responsible for it, but you're going to still shovel it. It's your sidewalk to shovel. That's part of your agreement. So do we want to try to reword this so we can get this through in the landscape? We want to do it on the fly because that's a lot of ratings Yeah for recorder Okay, we get to that part we'll have we'll have to word it in a way it's agreeable to everybody Okay any other discussions

okay with that being said I'm gonna open for a motion from the board I'd like to motion to approve the comprehensive plan the proposed plan uses and meets the provisions of the 2022 comprehensive plan as required by the Town Code section 165-19 do I have a second motion

Second. Okay, roll call. Jeffrey?

Aye.

Peter? Aye. Gary? Aye. Daniel? Aye. And the chair said aye as well.

uh it's a motion to approve the site plan with the following conditions uh one part of building permit uh application submission of a final site plan for signature incorporating comments from the staff report and comments from the bel air the bel air volunteer fire department comments dated may 12 20 26. B, the Maryland State Highway Administration comments and access permit conditions dated May 22, 2026. C, the Town Architectural Consultant comments dated May 25, 2026. D, the Hartford County Health Department comments dated May 21, 2026. E, the Hartford County Soil Conservation District comments dated May 20, 2026. F, the Bel Air Public Works comments dated May 27, 2026. G, the Maryland American Water Company comments, which are pending. H, the Town Landscape Architectural Consultant comments dated June 23, 2026. Which we got to add to that.

We got to amend that. How's that? How are we going to amend that, Liz? What's the best way, in your opinion?

Just restate it for the record so we can get it down So are you looking for verbiage I'm sorry verbiage so we can put it in the record for the agreement For which one? I'm sorry.

Well for each we could say town landscape architectural consultant comments pending agreement on the Quantity and size of the street trees.

Yes quantity and species of the street trees. I

Say it again.

Quantity and species. Oh, species. Yeah, species. Because they're, say, a minor, the landscape architect's saying major.

Yep. Specie type, I guess.

so i'll try wording that again town landscape architectural consultant comments dated june 23 2026 pending agreements on the quantity and species of street trees good for now sound good everybody

Can I have a second motion? We still have a whole lot more to do. Oh, jeez, yeah. 123 more things.

Number two, ensure that the State Highway Administration right of way dedication is properly documented and submitted as part of the building permit application package. Three, resolve the roof overhang encroachment from parcel 1246 lot one onto parcel 1244 by perpetual easement. Proof of recording must be submitted before final building permit improvement. Yeah, approval, and that did say encroachment, which is what you wanted, right? Yeah. Okay. Number four, loading and unloading of servicing and refuse recycling is prohibited between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. within 500 feet of a residential district unless waived by the Planning Commission based on mitigating factors. I don't believe I heard any waivers.

Is anybody in agreement that that should not be waived?

Yeah, that's one of those questions I forgot to bring up that it was on my notes.

That the that's refuse recycling only. So 10pm 70. That's the same.

Just be period. So everything from unless waived by the Planning Commission based on many getting factors is stricken from the record. Is that correct?

Yes. Because you're not waiving it. We're not waiving it. Okay.

So that note is to be included onto the site plan.

Can you say that again?

That note is to be included on the site plan.

Yes. So just add in that comment. So we're saying loading, unloading, servicing of refuse recycling is prohibited between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. within 500 feet of a residential district and duly noted on the site plan. Prior to final number five, prior to final approval, the applicant shall include a note on the plan stating that key access for the proposed green gate with a lock between parcel number 1257 and parcel 1258 are provided to the town of Bel Air Police Department and the Bel Air Volunteer Fire Department. Number six, prior to final plan approval, the applicant shall provide a shared access easement between the 711 and the Green Chop site to enable access between the Dunkin Donuts Jimmy John's area and the former public right away from Middle Alley as parcels 1246 and 1260 are not included within the development site.

Is that worded correctly according to the right?

Yes, but we're gonna add 1246 lot two.

Understood. Do I need to reread it?

Yes.

All right. Prior to final plan approval, the applicant shall provide a shared access easement between the 711 and the Green Drop site to enable access between the Dunkin Donuts, Jimmy John's area and the former public right of way for Middle Alley as parcels 1246 lot two and 1260 are not included within the development site. Number seven prior to final plan approval, the applicant shall revise the plans to demonstrate compliance with the town of Bel Air code 165 531 to I think it's an L D by reducing the number of outdoor dining seats from 20 to no more than nine seats consistent. It's six. It's down to six.

Nine stricken from the record.

But replaced with six or just stricken?

Just stricken. So you can go nine seats and keep going. Or excuse me, six seats and keep going. Sorry.

All right. To no more than six seats consistent with the maximum allowance of 75% of the required indoor seating of 12 seats. eight the final plan should show an adjusted stop bar and crosswalk at the intersection of george street and the unsigned maryland 922 subject to agency approval to improve traffic flow and intersection operations and then i believe we've added a number nine yes which is um I believe it's going to say parcels 1244 and 1246 lot two shall be consolidated with a deed is that all I need to say and record plat he's got to do that and record plat yeah that's good what about development agreement for the landscaping or is that would that be in landscaping that can be in landscaping I don't have any note on you wanted to make a correction about the San Diego the easement but where is that a separate line item because I don't have anything in my notes about that okay site plan I'll kind of read it out for you put it together ready sure okay under site plan

access easement from Santiago management LLC for the benefit of lots parcel 1244 lot to 1246 like to twice I'm sorry 1246 lot 2 and 1244

yes all right okay and the um site plan should be amended accordingly he doesn't have to repeat that does he you guys are okay with me saying it you add to this motion if you're okay with it that would be a lovely number 10 as you stated yes what i said Can I have a second? Second. Roll call. Jeffrey?

Aye. Peter? Aye. Gary?

Aye. Daniel?

Aye.

And the chair says aye.

Okay, moving along.

This one's gonna be fun. This one we're gonna have to reword as we go. Whoever makes the motion.

Who wants to make the motion? I make a motion to accept the landscaping plan at least in part. At a minimum approval of the landscape plan is conditioned to the following. Number one, prior to building permit application, submission of a final landscape plan for signature incorporating comments from the staff report and the following. Paragraph A, revised plans to include the required street trees along the 364 linear feet of frontage on South Hayes and Baltimore Pike, including parcel 1246, lot one, as mandated by the town of LR code 165-58A. The current proposal of Three major, two minor deciduous trees is deemed insufficient. The revised plan must provide for seven major deciduous, 12 minor deciduous or an equivalent combination with additional trees along the Baltimore Pike frontage of parcel 1246.

So I have to make a correction there. So there should be no mention of minor deciduous. There should only be reference to major deciduous.

hang on hang on so that is what the department's recommended we just discussed you that the department is my understanding the department and the applicant are going to work together with our landscape architect to determine what the number and species type of trees are going to be it did I misunderstand

No, that's the way I understood it.

Okay, so number 1A is stricken. We're not doing that. Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay.

We need to put in something that says what we are doing.

Yeah, should we be saying to agree with site plan 1H that there will be discussions and agreement on the quantity and species? Yes. Should we repeat that in the landscape?

Correct, yes. Okay. Okay, because otherwise, if you guys say that 1A is good, he's got to comply with 1A. Right. And that's undo what we just did.

Right. So we're going to replace 1A. pending an agreement on the size and species of trees for street, for the street trees.

Number and species type of the street trees. Did I say number and species? You said size. Size. It's okay.

So Daniel will have to repeat that.

Yeah, Daniel will have to repeat that. So we're gonna, to be agreed upon by the number of,

number of major deciduous trees and species no no number and species type they'll kind of figure out whether it's going to be major or minor deciduous trees straight trees we don't have to state in there for the reasons do we no general comment correct And if worse comes to worse and they can't work it out, then the planning department will send them back to you guys.

So. So they would refer to the site plan one H to be agreed upon of the number and species of street trees. Paragraph B, if relief from the town of Bel Air Code one six five five nine a two is deny the applicant must revise the plans to increase the buffer width from eight feet zero inches to 10 feet to comply with 165-5982 and 165-5983. Okay, are we approving that waiver?

That's the one I also forgot to bring up, I should have brought up.

Are you allowing eight feet?

I'd say it again but there there's one thing that's missing is that the applicant must revise the plans to increase the buffer width from eight feet women no it's being reduced by two feet so they my understanding when i read the report it was uh because they have to have uh 24 feet for the parking and behind the parking so i think the two feet is worthy to have that extra two feet for that reason

Yes, and the buffer is going to be satisfied by a eight-foot board-on-board vinyl fence pursuant to Resolution 118-18. Sorry.

Eight-foot fence or six-foot fence? Six, I'm sorry. It's on eight-foot centers, I think. Six-foot fence on eight-foot centers.

So sorry, words in your mouth.

Hang on, hang on one second. Let me write it down real quick. Let's try this. The applicant granted a reduction in the buffer width from 10 feet to 8 feet to comply with sections 165 59 a 2 and section 165 59 a 3 buffer to be satisfied by a six-foot board on board vinyl fence is that good okay

And then as mentioned, number C is to be removed because parcel 1246 lot 1 is not part of this proposed development.

Go ahead, Dan.

Take a shot at it.

Paragraph B. If relief from the Town of Bel Air Code 165-5982 is denied... Wait. We already did that one. The plans would be to decrease the buffer from 10 feet to 8 feet and the buffer to be satisfied by a 6-foot board-on-board vinyl fence.

Cracks. You want me to start out the development agreement in the retaining wall easement? Okay, the applicant shall enter into a development agreement for all live all lots within the project area to conform to the landscape plan. A portion of which is satisfied on parcel 1245. The applicant shall enter into an agree an easement for the retaining wall on parcel 1246 lot one as shown on the landscape plan try to make that really easy is that right okay yes on the parcels i didn't write the parcel standards it's up it's parcel 1246 lot one

We good with accepting Liz's or you wanna reword it? You good? Okay, can I have a second?

Oh, we still have the D and E to?

D and E. Oh. Okay.

That's it.

That's it.

That's it. It's only A and B.

A and B, okay.

That's on the old one, on the revised one, those were removed.

I got so many copies of it that I have the .

Okay, so we need a vote on that.

Okay, now we need a motion. Second.

Okay, roll call, finally. Jeffrey.

Aye.

Peter. Aye. Gary. Aye. Daniel. Aye. The chair is an aye. Okay. Can I have a motion on special development?

Mr. Chairman, I move to approve the drive-through service based on the following findings of fact. Pedestrian and vehicular circulation is coordinated throughout the site. Two, drive-through lanes are clearly marked and do not block service or emergency access. Three, adequate spaces for the queuing of vehicles are provided. Four, noise from the ordering speakers will be limited based upon state of Maryland standards for control of noise pollution. Five, drive-through lanes are located to the rear and side of the building.

Do I have a second? Second. Roll call. Jeffrey? Aye. Peter? Aye. Gary? Aye. Daniel? Aye. And the chair takes an aye. Okay, who wants to take the next special development?

I move for approval of the outdoor dining use based on the following findings of fact. Number one, no amplified music or public address systems will be in operation between the hours of 9pm and 9am. No record number two, no recreational games or live entertainment will be permitted between the hours of 9pm and 9am. Number three requirements of chapter 345. Peace and good order of the town code will be adhered to during operation of the use. Number four. Does this need to be? So what we and if I'm looking at the right copy here, current author seating is above the required 75% required capacity for the principal permitted use and there are no temporary enclosures proposed. was gonna say aren't we we're reducing the number of seats for outdoor Donnie is that correct yeah correct what to what six okay so I'm gonna change it to say current outdoor seating is limited to a maximum of six And number five, the use is not within a shopping center and will not serve alcoholic beverages.

Second.

Roll call. Jeffrey. Aye. Peter. Aye. Gary. Aye. Daniel. Aye. And the chair takes an aye also.

Aye. Congratulations.

Okay. We got through that one. Did I miss anything?

Thank you. Again, we appreciate all the hard work from McCarr and Michael and Kevin. It's been a pleasure.

I had one more general question and it had nothing to do with decisions or anything. Are the doughnuts going to be made on site or are they being shipped in?

Question for him.

Understood. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good luck.

Thank you.

Okay folks, we're going to move on to the next section. I just ask the audience to keep it down. and you you can leave if you want but if you're gonna stay we get keep it quiet okay take your time we'll be good we'll move on okay we're gonna move on to the item that we switched around at the beginning back to administrative matters we're gonna discuss item Item B is going to be a discussion of the necessity of conducting work sessions of the Planning Commission and additional review time for large-scale projects and required amendments to the Planning Commission's power and duties rules of procedure. this came up after our last meeting we decided to put it on the agenda a few of us were talking with Liz about it asking her opinion and she suggested that we bring it up for a discussion out in the open so that's why this is on the agenda and who wants to start the discussion

In my three decades on the Planning Commission, Steve and I were talking today, probably had five work sessions. I mean they had to do with like the hospital and and when we were Decoring with the Board of Education about the extension of McPhail Road that kind of thing, but I Think it's without extra work sessions There are concept plan review Meetings of which the chair and the book of the Planning Commission or the vice chair usually attends and It's a round table discussion, the applicant, what they wanna do, and then the town says, if you wanna do that, you gotta have this, and do this, and do that. So that kinda starts that process, and then we have a in-depth staff report. This particular one was 31 pages, I think, for tonight, of which is delivered a couple weeks ahead of time. And I know over the years, many, many times, I've called the director of planning, you know, Kevin or Carol Dybul, and to chat with them about what's this and what's that and then we get to the meeting and we started this at six o'clock it's now eight o'clock so we had a thorough two-hour discussion and back and forth and everything so I mean unless it's a really big project that like a hospital or a school or something of that effect I just don't see the need for calling special meetings work sessions.

I was gonna say if it's, you know, for a large project, for a large project, I can see the utility, you know, particularly so that you can, you know, where it's large, where it's complicated, it can be kind of tough and confusing to, to work things out here in this kind of, in this kind of setting. you know when you're trying to come up with a final decision so i i think now how to define a large project uh i think that almost has to be you know on a case-by-case basis but i but i think i think the utility would i think it'd be good to have that option i i know the board over the years and i thank peter for all his time on the board uh i know that they put

What we have now is what they put together, and I think it's put together pretty well. And I agree that maybe on a large project, it would be worthy possibly, you know, like the mall or a hospital, like you said, a school or something like that, just making sure all the ducks are lined up so that we don't waste their time and our time, making sure we got everything covered that they need to cover before they come in here. I thought the mall did a pretty – When I say them all, each phase, I thought they did a pretty good job on their presentations. I wasn't a big fan of the project, I'll be honest with you, parts of it, but I understood what was happening, and it had been nice to I saw them unprepared a few times, very few, but it did happen. We've had other, oh, even some small projects come in unprepared, which it surprised me because the developers that come in here all the time should have known better. So that's on them. But I think on a larger scale, case by case, it would be prudent to have a possible work session if everybody felt we should. I don't think we should just have a work session from the blind I think it should be you know like an email out the your opinion you think we should have a work session on this upcoming thing I think another thing about the comprehensive plan which takes a lot of time but I think tonight's meeting was a little unusual it took two hours there are many times when

It's a much less complicated application, and we can go through it in a half an hour. And there are times when we don't have anything on the agenda but to meet for the comprehensive plan. So I know that that's a lot of times how we got through the information that the director of planning and development would provide for the comprehensive plan was to tack it on to a meeting or, hey, you don't have any applications, but we can still get together the first Thursday of the month and we'll go over these plans. five or six comprehensive plan items. So again, it didn't call for an extra work session. And also those work sessions are, they'll be streamed too, I would imagine. Yes. And they're open to the public? Correct.

I was gonna, when you guys got done, I was gonna kind of filter in some thoughts. If you guys had any comments you wanted to say. Okay, so all of your meetings are subject to the Open Meetings Act under state law so that means you must have a quorum in order to have it and you have to have it open to the public. Now one thing that was sort of discussed after the last meeting and myself and Mr. Bayer had discussed after the last meeting was the concept of a work session for a quote unquote larger project would entail two parts. Number one, the Department of Planning has a very set schedule for submissions. They have a deadline. If you blow that deadline two weeks before the Planning Commission meeting or the Board of Appeals, you're not going on for that month. The concept of a large scale project would change that timeframe to require a month in advance. So that way they would get it, they would process it as they normally do, have their meetings, provide it to the outside agencies and consultants. gather that all together and then ship it off to you so you had more time to look at it before a work session. So a work session is not to replace these meetings. It is not to make a determination. It is not to make a final decision. It is only for you to gain information review it and provide commentary maybe discuss it with the staff the applicant is invited to attend but there this is not the time for presentation so I kind of wanted to give that sort of idea there are no public with the it's up to the board I would not recommend that you take public comments if the applicant can't present so that's how kind of the Board of Town Commissioner sort of operates It is this board's entire power. There's nothing in the code that says you have to. There is nothing in the code that has to be changed. Your powers and duties set forth that the chair can call a special meeting whenever he deems necessary. Now, we can amend that to say, you know, for large projects, but we need to have some feedback from you guys if you want to do that to say what is a large project. Because what's going to happen is you guys are going to tell us what a large project is, square footage, number of units. They're going to turn around and they're going to change their policies and then they're going to let people like Fred Ward know. You got a large project, don't you walk in this door two weeks before like the normal schedule that we've had for years. You're going to have to bring it in much sooner than that. Does that make sense?

Yes, and for me, the way you were speaking about the one month, that was more what I, you know, we don't have a lot of time. That's why I was saying, you know, we were talking last time about the work session. We would meet and discuss it since we didn't have much time. but if we give us more time and you know because legally more than two of us aren't supposed to talk about these projects outside of this forum and I don't think anybody has but that's why I suggested the work sessions for that reason because we We're not allowed to communicate with each other outside of here. Correct. On a project. Yes, that's correct. That was my thinking on a work session. That was it for larger projects only. But if we got more time, I think that would solve a lot. Okay. I mean, Peter can probably attest to that.

past history on meetings better than I can So a definition of a work session then when I first saw this I was thinking a work session would be more educational based as opposed to decision based You're absolutely correct that's exactly what it is

because you can look at the plans yeah you can look at the plans and the comments of the first of all you would get it way before right so you yourself independently could have a little bit more time this was a very unusual circumstance it was a this project that came in today you know y'all we had problems with mail y'all getting stuff and then it was a pretty complicated I'm not gonna say it was a large I wouldn't call this a large project

But it saved a lot of time in the future, I think, by us taking that extra time tonight. Correct. We would have had to come back and do it all over again.

Correct. So this gives you the opportunity to sort of, because I know, Jimmy, you are very proactive and have your little list of questions because you sit down and you review it and you take the time to do it. And to some extent, all of you guys do. So you can bring that back and say, hey, I saw this. Carl, what about that? Michael, what about this? Can you guys find out about that? and the applicant is gonna be invited, so they can just plop down and start writing if they want, or they can watch it on YouTube later on and say, hey, let me see what the comments were of the planning commission, and get with, they can also trade back if someone's not paying attention. It's entirely up to you. I leave it to the board's discretion. We just need a little bit of guidance as to what you wanna do. What is a large project, and how much time do you want?

Do you have a month? Do you have that month now, or is it all two weeks?

Right now it's all two weeks, right?

Right.

Right.

Right. Right.

I can't see any reason to delineate large or small because it can be complicated that wouldn't be dictated by size.

We have to have some standard to be able to apply to the applicants to say, the Planning Commission considers this a large project, okay? I mean, the only other thing is to, because the only people that see it is, and Michael, if you give them the discretion to say, hey, I think this project is going to be a bit complex. You know, since I've been with the town, I could probably think of one, maybe two projects that I've worked on with them that should have probably had a work session. Standard on Bond was one. He was here for that. Harford Mall apartments I know everybody has their feelings but it was standing room only in this it was unbelievably complicated they were back here lined up on the wall the public okay so to go back to the definition of working session is something that's educationally based as opposed to decision based correct there is no decision that can be made absolutely none

How ambiguous can we be about a reason for it? Because complexity could be this plan doesn't make sense. Does it make sense to you guys? You know, complexity.

Correct. And that's the problem is that you got – Waqar and Michael have so much to do before you guys even see it. I mean, this particular project, not only have they been working on it since they've been here, I have heard about this project and its complexities prior to both of them starting.

Their original TIA literally came in November of 2024. Correct.

So there was I was going back and forth with Kevin before because it was you know on again okay they sorted it out nope it's off and Kevin is you know a very well you guys know he was a very strict gatekeeper if it did not have all the bows tied he was not going to bring it to you there was one that should have gone to you this month they got it in time but Michael stopped it because he's like no you're not ready yet so he sent them back to go fix stuff so you know I mean I guess from an educational standpoint since we do have a lot of new members understand there is a significant amount of work that is done by these two people and myself before you even see it But I completely understand, but we need some kind of standard to be able, even if you just give the discretion to the director and say, okay, Michael, if you think this is complicated, large project, you're to contact the chair and say, hey, I think this needs a work session, and then let him make the call.

That's what I think.

Does that make sense? You're going to have a better sense of, you know, you want when we have these meetings to be able to make progress, not to come up and say, oh, you know, now that I've let you folks look at it, we've thrown so much dirt up in the air that, you know, we've just taken two steps back instead of anything moving forward.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is just making sure.

so I also think I know nothing about engineering I don't know anything about utilities any of that and I really don't think the role of the Planning Commission is to sit here and look at a plan and go over or you ought to move this or what is this line going you know that kind of thing it's we're more You listen to, you read what you have given us, you listen to what's presented, and then you kind of go with your gut. You're representing the citizens. I mean, I was talking with Steve today. I've served with people who were teachers Rob Preston owns a stationary store. None of us knew anything about these plans. That one thing with all those numbers on it, I've never seen that.

That's a photometric.

That made me dizzy. I had no idea what that was.

That's because you shouldn't have got it.

Something like that winds up in our packet. This is important. Absolutely. And that kind of stuff. So if we're going to have a work session so you can describe the lines and everything, I don't know.

Like Gary was saying, it's educational. I know prints and drawings and all that stuff and utilities, but there's still a lot of stuff on there where it's placed. Like we talked about screening. I know the other board members used to be on here. We all had topics we jumped on. uh including peter oh mine was here the trash so i was the trash guy yeah yeah that's the trash disposal enclosed yeah you always catch that too on the plans always wait a minute that's not right that was mine yeah there has been a lot i'm wrong and i've only been on this what lesson yeah a little over two years and i know a lot of stuff was caught that was

just on the drawings yeah but you're right with uh you know standard on bond with hickory flats those kinds of things i i think yeah yeah that would i mean standard on bond i think went what two nights at least two full nights they were hours right so okay okay and i would view this as the exception and not the rule yeah i think you know we can flag something and say it's pretty i think it's pretty obvious when it comes in like that one probably we would all benefit And we can talk about that and reach out to you. And if you think that makes sense as the commission, we can go ahead and schedule that and adjust the overall schedule accordingly. Because ultimately, you know, if it takes longer to work through issues even with you, that's still going to drag out a bit. So let's try to get as much of that on the front end as we can.

So in that plan we just saw go through here recently on the I don't know all the acronyms, DDRB, whatever. It was the development plan. And the mall people came here and supported it because it would have been great to know that all up front and get into a long-term agreement. So I think that was a... The DRAs. Yeah.

No, that would have been, trust me, we were pushing hard for that, but it didn't pass. So just so I'm on the same page with you, it sounds to me like you guys are in favor of work sessions to be called at the discretion of the Director of Planning and Community Development and the Chair of the Planning Commission. Yeah. So what I'm going to recommend is I have this. This is your powers and duties. It just simply says right now what it says your rules are. Special meetings may be called by the chair upon written notice of a minimum of two members, by the chair or upon written notice. don't want to take that away okay that's a power why it would be exercise I don't know but it's pretty ambiguous I'll just add another one it's a work sessions shall be called at the discretion of the director of planning and community development and the chair of the Planning Commission and we'll amend that and then have it approved by you guys okay for large or complex projects or something like that is that okay okay Yeah, because you might, this one was pretty complicated. I wouldn't say a warranted. This one was one of those ones where when I finally got it, I was like, oh my God, I can see this and that. I think this is the first time I think I've had four or five different legal documents I'm recommending to you guys.

Well, and that's where, you know, sometimes it almost feels, well, certainly that last submission with them all where we were getting stuff at the last minute and it was like, wait a minute, this is not the way it should go.

It wasn't and it is not typical. That was something where it was submitted and it was submitted incomplete. It shouldn't have been accepted is where it should have been. And so they were pushing, we were racing to try to make it happen. So otherwise, and I told them, if it doesn't happen and you don't get your ducks in a row and it gets to the planning commission so they can review it, you're going to get tabled. And you know there's a landscape plan. You know there's this. I mean, and they just kind of try to, they do what they do. They want to get moving, but they don't want to do the work to get moving. They want to put it on us, if that makes sense. So that was a very unusual circumstance. It shouldn't have been accepted. It should have just been kicked back, but that's the way it is.

We were able to get some things through that originally we couldn't get through.

I'm still a little concerned that you know I thought we made the point that you know hey you've got a whole lot more parking than you need we'd like to see more green you know we'd like to see you make some changes and it's one thing to say oh yeah but it's like how much are we really gonna see in terms of change and you know even with that because it's not it's all conceptually enumerated. It's like, I think you need to make some significant changes. And it's like, yeah, we can do a little tweak. I still felt like we were, understanding-wise, probably further apart than, there's still a distance between, I think, what we'd like to see and what they wanna do.

I mean, if I had to roll a dice or bet in Vegas, they're going to be back before you. Oh, I'm sure they have to.

I mean, they have to show a real plan. What they committed to was, okay, this many square feet of building, and I think it's going to be a gym. And, yeah, when we figure out what we're going to do, we'll come back and tell you. We want to be able to knock them all down.

Yeah. Timmy?

Steve, I was going to say, Steve, do you have a comment on this?

Poor guy's been trying.

No, I just wanted to say with the work session thing is if you require more time, how do you deal with it? Because right now it's only two weeks.

That's where the department has to revise their policies based on what the planning commission says because if they do call a work session, then what they're going to have to tell the developers is you've got to get this in much sooner than our normal schedule because I'm considering this a complex.

So he has the authority to say, even though it's in the procedures, two weeks, you can say, no, I want your plan a month because we consider this complex.

He's going to amend his procedures.

Okay.

Michael well, right. So basically, I just wanted to make that wasn't mentioned as well to make sure that you're gonna, there's some way we can say, because yeah, because everyone who does business with the town and has projects knows what the system is at the Department of Planning, they know they have to get it in two weeks. We're changing that, quote, unquote, rule on them. So they need to have adequate notice.

Right. And the other thing to keep in mind is like, a lot of these things are in the pipeline. before they get formally submitted while we're having the conversation. So I think what'll happen is, and people will know, this is a complicated process, we recognize that. So if I say at that process, well we're gonna schedule that work session with the Planning Commission, they're gonna understand that it's gonna take a little bit longer on the front end. but hopefully what I would say is if we can do this well, ultimately it should make it more efficient of a process because if we get that input, we work with them and everybody's kind of amenable, works together, hopefully that actually makes the process a little bit smoother because you'll have more information, we'll be able to process that and give them the input that they need.

It'll reduce the risk of table or something. Exactly.

Yeah.

It's gonna save them time in the long run.

Yeah, and that's what, yeah, the department has to do, so, because it's not really this side of the process, this side of the process's responsibility to get that stuff and get it where it needs to be, it's theirs. Yeah, yep. Okay, any other questions on that? Okay, we will draft some language for your powers and duties to amend them and then we will submit them prior to your next meeting.

Are we having a next meeting? I think so, yeah.

Next month, okay. So we'll get that to you as part of your agenda.

so we done with this item we good okay we got one more item okay the last item is item C was discussion of staggering of terms of planning Commission members

Yeah, so I handed out a copy of my Westlaw printout on Maryland annotated code land. Oh, yeah, land use article two dash 102. On page Two, subsection C1, it says the term of a member of the Planning Commission other than an ex facto member is five years or until the member's successor takes office. The terms of the members of the Planning Commission shall be staggered. It came to Steve's attention that your terms are not staggered. So we are currently violating Maryland law. So what our proposal to do, and this won't impact Pete is Okay, so right now Pete's going to expire 11-15-2026. Your term expires. Mr. Hines is April 23rd, 2029. No offense, Mr. Graham, taking him off, he's an alternate. Jeffrey Stamm, he currently expires 12-15-2030. Gary Webb currently expires 4-6-2031. So when we looked at these dates, we realized that several of you, three of you are expiring within a year of each other. So we've gotten new members over and that kind of shows, wait a minute, we have a problem here. You're currently appointed to five-year terms pursuant to Maryland law, but you're not staggered. So not to pick on anyone, Jeffrey Stamm, we're thinking about requesting that the Board of Town and the Board of Town Commissioners have talked about how to straighten this out so we can kind of get you compliant with Maryland law. The easiest way that we figured to do this, again, not to point you out, Jeffrey Stan currently, like I said, term expires 12-15-2030. We would like to pass a resolution that would reduce your term by eight months. So that way your term would expire 4-15-2030. That would mean one member expires on 29, one member expires 2030, and one member expires 2031. You're going to have, in November, two seats open. Mr. Chismar is actively trying to recruit new members, so we'll address those seats as they come for appointments. So we didn't want to just single you out or not have a discussion with the members of the Planning Commission, but we're trying to straighten this out.

No, I'm okay with that.

okay and understand that we think you're doing a great job we appreciate your service and if you want to continue at that termination we'll just appoint you for another five years and that'll kind of straighten it out as it goes so if you guys are okay with that we'll get a resolution to the board so

So this way, Jimmy, his term will expire in April 29. Jeff's will expire if we shorten you by eight months in April 30. And then Gary will expire in April 31. Correct. So we're a year apart. Yes. That makes sense. Okay. And that way we keep the experience on the table. you know, we don't we don't have because right now, four people expires in within a year.

That's tough to fill.

Yeah, you don't want to do that. Yeah, you don't want to do that.

Don't ask me how it happened.

It was way before I was here. We still got Peter here. We need his experience.

Yeah, we don't have the experience. And it's like, you got four new members. So it's like, God, yeah, we wanted to see what you staggered out.

Okay.

Sound good? Yep.

Okay. Awesome. Great. We'll get that on the agenda for the Board of Town Commissioners.

Okay.

Okay.

Do we have any other items anyone would like to discuss or bring up?

I'm done. You're done?

Okay. I'm going to officially adjourn. We're adjourned.